alleage for them selues Scripture and will not be brought down from their priuat sense to vnderstand those Scriptures as old blessed fathers haue interpreted them that herefor to make an end and to stopp the moâ—thes of all arrogant persons we will and define that old fassions old customes auncieÌ„t interpretatioÌ„s and so furth shal preuail For the question here in this CouÌ„cel was not of custome custome traditioÌ„ traditioÌ„ which should preuaile for the ArriaÌ„ did medle with no tradition or former custome or vsage Neither was the questioÌ„ in coÌ„paring former vsage with some late writers inuention for Arrius would alleage no one mans writing taking him felfe to be better learned theÌ„ all other and if he would haue alleaged his owne authority only that had ben so folishe and diueliâ—he that it was to be reserued for Luther or some other of the priuy couÌ„sell of Antichrist Wherin then was the strife not in those two pointes which I haue named but in this onely that wheras Arrius would be tried by scriptures only and plentifully brought them out for a shew of his defence and wheras vnder the letter of the scripture he vttered his blasphemous sprit and went against the plain traditioÌ„s and lessons of the Apostells and fathers of Christ his Church therfore saieth the Councell Let old customes and maÌ„ners preuaile which is to say we alow scripture and we alleage scripture but after that sort that we must not ne will admit any thing contrary vnto the Apostolike faith receaued for as concerning your text Sir Arrius where you say The father is greater then I am And againe God made me in the beginning of his waies with such like they must be vnderstood as our â—decessors maisters and fathers haue deliuered vnto vs. neither must you bring you in neuer so many places of the old or new testameÌ„t think therfor that you may conclud a sense and meaning contrary to the old faith Away with this pride of yours submit your vnderstanding to the faith of the Churche leue of your new termes of extaÌ„tibus and non extantibus receaue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and coÌ„substancialitie which word although it be not expressed in Scripture yet it is in tradition Consent and agree with the Councell of the whole world These wordes loe and such like doe expresse truly what the fathers should meane in saing Let the old customes preuaile And this being proued to be the very meaning of that worthy sentence what hath M. Iuell doon in setting it before his sermon in the first shew therof is it put there to be laughed at or to be folowed and regarded If to be laughed at the CouÌ„cell of Nice is not so simple a thing If to be folowed why are the Catholikes reproued then for defending auncient traditions and why are the heretikes honored which will haue nothing but â—he bare text onely together with their priuat comment vpon it If customes manners fashions vsages call it as you will if they must preuaile wherfore doe we all this while contend with the Protestantes vpon verities writen and vnwriten vpon traditions and vses of the Catholike Churche Euery boke almost which is of common places hath the question of Scripture and traditioÌ„ moued therin which nedeth no more to be any question you being so well acquainted M. Iuell with the Protestantes and hauing so great credit among them as they lightly can geue to such a person For at one worde you shall end the whole matter perswading them that old customes and fashions must preuaile which in my minde I thinke to be impossible but nothing is hard perchaunce to you for this is clere euen in sight the last and third communion is preferred before the second the second better estemed then the first and if a new one come furth you shall I warrant you see it plainly proued that quite against your will and against the Councell of Nice the old fashions shall not be preferred And this much hitherto I haue saied as coÌ„cerning old customes supposing and graunting that the CouÌ„cell of Nice might vse that senteÌ„ce as M. Iuell alleageth it for a generall conclusion and determination whereas in very dede those wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ar onely mentioned in the beginning of the sixt Canon as concerning one especiall matter about the prerogatiue of the sees of the Bishopp of Antioch and Alexandria and should not therfore be drawen vnto a generall sentence But we shall meet again with M. Iuell vpon this point before the end I thinke and therfore now will I turne ouer the lease and coÌ„sider his sainges and apply som answers and infer so well as I can som obiections against him VVhen so euer any ordre geuen by God is brokeÌ„ or abused the best redresse therof is to restore it againe into the state that it first was in at the begnining If you take the paines leisurly to consider the illation of this conclusion you shall perceaue the wordes of the blessed Apostle vnto S. Timothe the first epistle chapter to haue in these our daies the persons vnto whom they may and must be applied The end of the coÌ„maundemeÌ„t is charite which cometh out from a pure harte and good conscience and vnfained faithâ— from which certen men wandering a side are turned vnto vaine talke coueting to be teachers of the law not vndersâ—anding yet neither the thinges which they speake neither vpon what thinges they make affirmatioÌ„s M. Iuel here in the wordes which I haue recited maketh mention of an ordre geuen by God and of ordre broken and of redresse of the same by retorn to the first institution In whiche sainge can he tell what he speaketh or what and wherfore he affirmeth what ordre geuen by God did he talk of before to bring in the wordes thus when anye ordre geuen by God is broken c. In the third leafe he saith that S. Paule had appointed the Corinthias as touching the Sacrament that they shold all eate and drink together Doth he call this the ordre geuen by God I beleue verely that what soeuer S. Paule appointed the same did come from God as the principall gouernour of his churche But for all that there is great difference betwixt the coÌ„maundmentes expressely geuen by God ordres set by men as ministers of God For with the one kind non can dispence withowte especiall licence froÌ„ God and in the other kinde the heades of the church haue the power in ther owne handes without further question to sett and remoue plant and pull vp as they shal see it profitable for the present state of the churche Wherfore although the blessed Apostle did neuer make such ordres vpon his own head as did not agree with the will of almighty God yet properly to speak an ordre geuen by God is so to be taken that without all exception it must be kept and folowed without speciall reuelation for the
that they shal not play the wantons but hold that which he teacheth or els voluntarilie and at pleasure they agree If voluntarilie and at wil then is not he sure of an others mind which may be so often tymes chainged in euery day and howre If they say one thing bicause of one master and auctoritye let him then plainlie tell vs the name of that person his master We haue hard of Luther Zuinglius Oecolampadius Seruetus Suenk feldius of the which euery one did crake of the glorious light of the Ghospel of Christ which they did beare abrode in their lanthornes But ther light is not the light of the sonne but such as we see in great tempestes when contrary flashinges of lightening com one against an other They did not confort and quickeÌ„ by their doctâ—in â–ª but destroy and burn vp quite the grene frutes of deuotion and pretie And which then of all these is your master ruler The worde of God â—f in these dayes it be com abrode out of darcknes it cometh not without handes and tongues who then be your apostles If there be none a great maruel certenly to receaue so great a gift and not to know froÌ„ whence it cam or who brought it If there be any then must you folow your Apostles But they are all so wel and highly learned that they disdain to be any mans scholers as a certen Doctor and called a bishop perswading with one that he should read the Doctors with iudgement meaning that in deed the doctors be plainly against them except one take the place of a iudge vpon him and defyne their verdictes as it shall please the world the fleâ—sh and the diuell vsed this kind of reason to obtain his purpose for I my self ê™ he do read Luther with iudgemeÌ„t O miserable and beggerly religioÌ„ euen Luther him selue which like a morning is sayd to haue risen before the light of the ghospell for whom they blesse the Lord that in him he reueled his sâ—ne Ihâ—sus Christ os impudens yet is he to be readen with iudgmeÌ„t But whose iudgemeÌ„t The iudgmeÌ„t of the church â—row you or iudgmeÌ„t of Melanchthon Bucer Caluin or any other no no â–ª for al these are to be readeÌ„ also with iudgmeÌ„t And whose iudgement forsoth myn owne Behold then I pray you is not the Ghospell mightely spred abrode when all this while no one person liuing is found on the ProtestaÌ„teâ— side which is and must be taken for an vndouted trew preacher of the Ghospel Again suppose that I haue yet no Christendom and that gladly I wold com to the trew fayth which is the trew light of my soule as far and as mightely as it is spred abrode where yet shall I find it Let me begin at Sarum church and doth that agree in al pointes with the Quenes chappell Let me goe vnto Geneua and that church doth it agree in all articles with England froÌ„ thens bring me abrode in to Germany and shall I see the same preachinges vsed as are in other countries and cities of them which are no papistes how shall I which am not yet christened and learned distinct the Lutheran Zuinglian Anabaptist Arrian and more such sectes one from an other For the blase of the glorious light which you talke of is marred by the concurring of all these flames together Wherfor I wonder much at the vain hope of him which in these most troblesom and controuersious times would look that euery man should com to the licht of the Ghospel which he saieth is mightely spred abrode wheras in deed he him selfe which hoped for many incummynges doth not yet redely know whether he be in the right way him self or no. and can not proue to me whether this which he holdeth be the Ghospell of Christ or no or counterfaicted by som Pope or other or by som one generall Councell or other from whose handes we haue receaued it For if it folow well and if we may build here vpon oure soules health that they haue not â—aythfullie expounded vnto vs the Ghospell as easely it may folow that they haue deliuered vnto vs a false Ghospell And if they may be trusted with the keping of the Ghospell and that we nothing doubte but they haue deliuered it as they receaued it without interlining rasing blotting and corrupting of it why should we mistrust them in the expounding of the same Ghospell If they had so good conscience that hauing the testament in their keping they are beleued to haue suppressed or burned or altered no part therof shall we make them on the other side so wicked and desperate that they would expouÌ„d the same otherwise then they had receaued And if we doe stand by it plainly and openly that they wer so corrupted and blinded that they haue sensed and interpreted the scriptures most vntruly and most against the glory of God can we with owt feare receaue the testament of God and writinges of all our health â—rom them and nothing mistrust lest they haue put in and put out for their owne purpose and aduantage many thinges which God neuer vttered or which he expreslie coÌ„maunded Certainly as mightely as the talke of the worde of God and glorious light of the ghospell is spred abrode bicause of so diuers sectes which declame against the catholick and Apostolick church yet if we considre the case rightly the very crakers of that light know not for all that in what suerty of their faith they be them selues For they haue forsaken the high way and what by breaking of ceremonies what by ouerturning of monasteries what by false libertie of conscience that they may doe what they will vnder the name of the crosse of Christ and his passion they haue so crossed the wayes and broken down so many hedgis and troden downe so much good corn so many faire pastures of all pietie and deuotion that except they com back to the beginning againe they can neuer com to good end Whither be you posting Sir and please you vnto heauen you must ride then a pase for company bycause by your owne confession these nine hundred yeres and more none did euer take this way which you doe folow But where will you bayt by the way At the signe of the booke with seuen claspes which is the Ghospell Sir then I besech you what call you the city where that signe is Mary Geneua where Caluin readeth What if Geneua be destroied and Caluin burned or otherwise dead before you com thither Whither will you goe then to the signe of the Ghospel And why not to Caluins successors which may saâ—ly deliuer you the Ghospel And then Geneua being destroied and Caluin both what shall the next bayting place be at which thei may turne in which look to be saued or what shall his name be which is goodmaÌ„ of the house Certanly at this point and turning they are no more sure of their faith theÌ„ I shold be
by many miracles that hath ben well knowen vnto the church not hastely to iudge of the spirite of God with whom you are not so well acquainted as Sainct Benet was but humbly and reuerently to heare the miracles of God in his sainctes and to confesse that M. Iuell doth not know all thinges Wher you haue it that Sainct Benet did geue the communion vnto a dead woman I know not verely but Sainct Gregorye reporteth a lyke thing of hym that a ladd of Sainct Benet his monasterye departing vnto his parentes without the blessing of Sainct Benet and before his returne departing also the world after he was committed to the earth the next day he was cast vp again Wher vpon Sainct Benet after mone made vnto him sent the communion and willed it to be putt vpon the brest of the lad After which doâ—e ther was no more troble which thing being so sadly writen by Sainct Gregory we may not well lawgh at it and the same finding no fault with the matter lett not vs murmur against the workes and inspirations of God In deed it is not for euery man so to doe but when so singular vertuous men are moued therunto and when a great effect doth folow we must iudge that God was the author therof and that the partie did it not vpon his owne opinion and boldnes The which answer serueth also that we be not to bold in condemning any one his deuotion and faith which vseth the sacrament for his defence in any kind of cause For S. Ambrose praiseth his brother Satyrus which minding to goe ouer the seas did take of the ChristiaÌ„s which were in the shippe with him the Sacrament and hanged it about his necke wherevpon afterwardes when a tempest did rise and breake the shippe he committed him self to the defence of Christ in hys Sacrament and so miraculouslye escaped drowning And lyke as Saint Peter takyng comfort and strength of the presence of Christ sayed Lord if thou be he bid me com vnto the vpon the waters and did walke vpon them as vpon firme land so the Catholikes which certainly beleue that this is he him selfe whome they see couered vnder forme of bread although he be alwayes present yet they are more out of feare when they haue him within their handes and reach And throwgh the grace which cometh from him they walke securely and peaceably As contrarie wyse vnto other which doubte of Christ his wordes and make such a sence of them as they be able without difficultie to attaine vnto saying that he is present by a certain conceiued thowght of ours and remembraunce onely I wondre not if it seme foly vnto such to make any store of the Sacrament or to reserue it for a stay of their wauering fayth in ieoperdies For what is bread but bread and what can it doe more then comfort the body But now againe bycause in S. Benet his time more besides him as M. Iuell collecteth did geue the Sacrament euen vnto dead persons ergo they certainly did confesse a more liuely reall mighty and blessed thing therin to be then our protestantes will admitt So that putting a side the question whether they did well therin or no yet this appeareth that they toke the SacrameÌ„t to be as Christ hath saied his verye owne body and that faith was in the church within the fiue or six hundred yeres after Christ which M. Iuell receaueth for incorrupt But alas what if they which most of all defend the masse them selues find fault with the masse as Albertus Pigghius by name the greatest piller of that parte First I answer that the church doth not take him for the greatest piller in so much that in three or fowre poyntes she noteth hym to haue had his errors a Catholike faith is not bownd vnto any priuate mans opinion But you be accustomed to this kinde Then I say further that it appeareth hereby of what good conscience Pigghius was who did not write for fauor of his side or hatred of the contrarye which if he had minded he would neuer haue yelded one inche vnto an heretike which haue that maÌ„ner of stoutnesse that if one of them denie neuer so manifest a thing as for example that S. Peter was euer at Rome vpon which thing all writers agree vpon althowghe they differ somwhat in the time but as I sayed be the thing neuer so manifest to the contrarie of that which any of them doth affirme or impugne yet will the rest defend him in their wise not perchaunce in alowing the opinion but in saing that it is a disputable questioÌ„ and so that being grauÌ„ted ergo say they it is no mater of faith whether the one part or other be taken But the catholikes bicause they be plaine they doe vtter their owne opinioÌ„ and noting dissemble with theâ—r felowes if it be not trew Wherin they are suffered so to reason one against an other that they be both of them obedieÌ„t vnto the church whose voice we do harkeÌ„ vnto not what Albertus Pigghius saith Thirdly theÌ„ I answer that more beside Pigghius coÌ„fesse abuses to haue crept into the seruice of the church as it appeareth by the catholikes which coÌ„sulted vpoÌ„ reformatioÌ„ of disorders in a certain meeting at Ausburg Also â—â—ofmesterus in the expounding of the masse demeth not but som trifles haue ben put in but what abuses trifles doth he meane forsoth such as be in som proses antiphonies repetitioÌ„s and rehersalls of thinges not auteÌ„tike which be in deed in the coÌ„passe of the masse but are the outward garment as it were of the body Now wheras you say that Pigghius hath found out errors and abuses in the masse it maketh a Catholike man to feare by and by lest that either by Pigghius opinioÌ„ Christ his body were not really present or were not to be adored the signe of the crosse wer not to be vsed in the masse or water and wine not to be mengled or the bread not to be taken in the hand of the priest when he should coÌ„secrat or least som other thing worth the talking of were omitted or abused As for a versicle or lesson or som one ceremony there may be cause perchauÌ„ce to alter it and yet the masse continue neuer the worser And therfor truly M. Iuell semeth vnto me not to play a bold part and vpright for wheras properly as he can not but know except he be to much vnlearned wheras I say the masse is properly the sacrifice of the new law in the which Christ his very owne body is offered by him self throwgh the ministery of priestes vnto God his father for the purging preseruing and beutifying of his church M. Iuell yet setting him selfe to talke against the masse I will not speake sayeth he of transubstantiation of reall presence of sacrifice I am content to disauantage my selfe at this tyme in those thinges but I will talke
euen according vnto them which thowght good that the sacrament be worshipped vnder this coÌ„dition if consecration were performed But according to the truth there is no daunger at all As I wil proue which yet neadeth not because dauÌ„ger or daunger not adoration ys due vnto the host trulye coÌ„secrated yet for the more plaines I will shew the people to be safe without all question for the vulgar and true Catholykes allthowgh vnskilfull in knowledg yet stedfast in faith when thei beleue once that our Sauyor left his bodie vnto his welbeloued church in forme of bread and gaue the power vnto priestes of consecrating the same his bodie or if the people be not able to make such distinction yet if they beleue what so euer the church teacheth and if they agree to the ordinances of her then loe they in hearing of masse and adoring the Sacrament are not bound to make serch of the intention of the priest but vnder this faith that all is well done in the Catholyke church and that Christ is to be worshipped vnder forme of bread their deuotion is harmeles vnto them and acceptable vnto God If thy eye be simple sayeth owr Sauior all thy whole bodye is lightsome and therfor the intentioÌ„ of the people being good directed vnto that first veritie that Christ our Sauior hath left his bodie vnto vs in forme of bread what so euer knauerie or dyuelishnes be wrought of man in some particular host it hurteth not the pietie of the good and denote people And god which is the sercher of the hartes doth receaue vnto him selfe that honor which they haue apointed for him in the SacrameÌ„t For they see the priest to reuest hym selfe to goe to the altar to make crosses and signes to kneele downe to shew vnto them the Sacrament they see the forme of bread and what shold they do then but worship the SacrameÌ„t Except perchauÌ„ce any man wil require more then a man his knowledge in a man For I wold aske the question of that scrupulouse conscience which feareth where no cause of feare is and say to hym Good felow why doest thow not kneele doune at sacring and worship the body of Christ It appeareth by thy plain countenance and apparel that thow fearest not hurting of thy knee or breaking of thy hose as some strayt pointed gentilmen do leane vnto a pillar of the church for such lyke causes but some ernest matter there is which moueth the â–ª Yea for sothe Sir for and if it please you a litle to come a side I heard a preacher once say that some priestes do mock the people and do not coÌ„secrate the bread And theÌ„ if there be no coÌ„secration I heard the same preacher say there is no adoration due vnto it which thing he also proued owt of I can not tell what old doctors lerned mens bokes If I were therfor sure that the priest doth coÌ„secrate I wold then trulie worship my maker How then wilt thow be sure hath he not vestmeÌ„tes vpoÌ„ hym is he not at the altar doth he not al thinges as good priestes shold do Yes but I wold know his inteÌ„t and meaning by his owne word Why wold his worde quiet the or might not he thinke one think and speak an other Mary therefor as the preacher noted it were good neuer to worship Christ in the Sacrament for feare least thorough the priest his dissimulatioÌ„ I shold haue nothing els there but bread and so commit idolatrie Nay good felow that was not the wysest preacher that euer thow hast heard because sure I am thow honorest they father and mother with all obedience and seruice if they be a lyue and with thy dailye praier if they be departed but art thow sure that they are thy father and mother which are sayd to be what discretion hadest thow before thow were begotten how sayest thow then if that preacher shall rule the not onlie not thow thy selfe but no man at all shall worshipp any man or woman for father or mother Bycause we are not otherwyse sure of them but that we beleue the whole parishe which doth testifie it And then if authoritie shall preuaile the whole world testifyeth that in the masse tyme Christ is present in forme of bread so that thow needest not to make any more question hereof then whether thy father be thy father or no. And this I speak to declare that as long as we be in the world we should seeke for no further profe of thinges than may be gathered of heering seeing and other senses And therefor perceauing by all externall signes that any priest at masse doth as the church hath appoynted I should not desyre to creepe in to his bosome and to withstaÌ„d or withhold the worshipping of the Sacrament which the church teacheth me vntill I know the priest his thowght and intention Well Sir yet â–ª would the felow saye albeit I must beleue that in the Sacrament Christ his bodie is present and sould require no further profe thereof then the authoritye of Christ and his church yet me thinketh the case with vs poore people is harde when we worship Christ in the SacrameÌ„t if he be not in the SacrameÌ„t because of the leudenâ—â— of the priest which made no consecration â–ª No no good felowe 〈◊〉 harme is done at all vnto the. For suppose this which is possible inowght that there werâ— one so lyke thy owne father that 〈◊〉 could not be discerned which of the two were thy true father in dâ—â—d Yf thow shouldest honor the counterfayte thinkyng hym to be thy true father might thy naturall father trowest thow iustlye be offended there withall or bicause thou couldest not haue any certayn marke in this doubtefull case wouldest thow honor no father at all They which stand behind a pillar in the church or behind their neighbours backes or which at the tyme of eleuatioÌ„ looke downe vpon the grownd doe not they worshipp if theyr mynd be good Christ in the SacrameÌ„t And yet they behold not that host which is present ne bind themselues vnto those singular formes whiche they myght behold for the looking vp but simplie and plainely they worship the true bodye of Christ which is vnder the forme of visible bread when it is rightly consecrated as they take the host vppon theyr parish church to be And if it be otherwise it is a pryuate and deadlye synn of the priest and a particular error of theires nothing hurting or letting the proper obiect and staie of their fayth vnto which their deuotion ys caryed And to lett hym goe now with whom I seemed to talke all this whyle and to returne vnto M. Iuell the lerned men dyd in deed make obiection as thowgh there might be dawnger in worshypping of an host vnconsecrated And therefor sayeth Master Iuell they gaue warning of it whichâ— wordes import so much as if the scholemen should saye take heede good people what yow
doe yow may be poysoned the host may chaunse not to be consecrated and then there is dawnger of idolatrie And so the people should be dimissed with scruple of conscience as M. Iuell vnderstandeth the scholemen which is nothing so â–ª for the conclusion of scholes and answer vnto that obiection which Master Iuell alleageth ys that the people are withowt all daunger in so much that the opinion of worshypping the Sacrament vnder a condition ys refused of the best lerned Now as concerning Duns and Durand Master Iuell reporteth of them by these wordes That they thowght it best to remoue away the bread and to bring in transubstantiation for it were remayned the substance of 〈…〉 and how 〈◊〉 vnto 〈◊〉 What is he which â—â—â—ring 〈◊〉 wordes and knowing neither the places where Dunâ— and Durand say 〈◊〉 or any good lernyng besides wolâ— not 〈…〉 Duns and Durand dyd so cast their heades to geather as thowgh they were able to bring thâ—â—â— opinions in to the articles of owr Crede and as thowgh transubstantiation were inuented and authorised by them and not rather coÌ„firmed by the whole church of Christ. It ys a shamefull kynd of lyeing when the true orderers of Christ his church shall be suppressed with silens and when the veâ—â—tyes of the Catholyke faith shall be attributed vnto the disputatioâ— of â—â—holemen Sainct Thomas indeed hath this argument that it ys agaynst the worshipping of the Sacrament if any creaâ—ed substance which may not be worshipped with godlie honor should be there ergo sayeth he no substance of bread remaineth Agaynst which reason of his Duns and Durand both doe argue verie busilie and they doe think that the substance of bread might be graunted to remain and yet the bodye of Christ might be worshipped in the Sacrament withowt all daunger of Idolatrie Therefor M. Iuell as cunnyng as he maketh hym selfe in Duns and DuraÌ„d doth so far and fowlâ—e goe â—â—de of theyr meanyng and opinion that they argued the plaine contrarie vnto that which he reporteth of them For whereas he interpreteth then sayinges after thiâ— manner that for auâ—yding of idolatrie in the Sacrament the substance of bread must be remoued they reason a playne contrarie way â–ª and argue their obedience vnto the church allwayes reserued that for all the remayning of â—read yet the bodie of Christ might be in the Sacrament and withowt daunger honored But they speak therein lyke scholemen and also lyke aduersaries of Sainct Thomas whose argumentes â–ª whiles they discussed to the vttermost â–ª they haue fallen some tymes in to the suspition either of enuie or curiositie And see agayne how litle it hangeth togeather that which M. Iuell would father vpon them Yf there be any substance of bread in the Sacrament sayeth master Iuell in his coÌ„mentarie vpon Duns and Durand there must be daunger of idolatrie ergo by transubstantiation lett vs take the substance of bread awaye and then will all thinges be safe and suâ—e and the people shall be cleane voyde of ieopardie But how can this sense and conclusion seeme agreable to a schole man For if as M. Iuell hath tolde vs owt of theire writinges there be daunger of Idolatrie when consecration ys omitted how much hath Duns holpen the people by bringing in of transubstantiation where as the substance of breade neuer so much taken away yet there may lacke consecration and that failing as master Iuell weeneth idolatrie may be committed and Duns and Durand should misse of their purpose for which they deuysed transsubstantiation Wherefore I wonder at the libertie which master Iuell taketh vpon hym in makyng as pleaseth hym free reportes vpon the lerned as thowgh they were easie to be vnderstanded or he had euer great mynd to read them or as thowgh his report were of such authoritie that as he sayeth so it must be in them Now as concerning Sainct Thomas which proueth that no bread doth remaine in the Sacrament bycause godlye honor ys geuen vnto it the authoritie and present practise of the church dyd moue hym thereunto As though he should saye on this wise The church doth geue godlie honor vnto that which ys vnder the formes of bread and wyne but no godlye honor ys due vnto anye pure creature ergo except the churche should committ Idolatrie which ys impossible no other substance besides the body of Christ can be conteined in the Sacrament In which his conclusion the honor which the church gaue to the Sacrament was sufficient vnto hym to inferr that no bread remayned and not his desire to haue the Sacrament worshipped was the motyue and occation to inuent that no bread remayned For to speake the trueth the scholemen as they were for the greater part men of excellent witt and holynes so thorowghe the ghift of vnderstanding and cumpassing weightie matters they went verie farr in serching owt the treasures of all diuinitie and yet thorowgh the grace of holynes which qualified their deepe inuentions they allwayes submitted their conclusions vnto the authoritie of the Catholyke church In so much that if a thowsand Dunces and Durandes shold so decide this question and matter as master Iuell reporteth of them yet needeth not the Catholyke for that cause to be trobled or the heretyke crake of anye victorie agaynst the practyse and faith of the churche But lett vs behold how master Iuell plaieth the schole man and vttereth such an insight in the Sacrament as the greatest doctors for subtilitye haue neuer marked throwgh their dulnes For vpon this which he supposeth Duns and Durand to saye the Sacrament ys to be worshipped ergo no bread must be remayning he inferreth a contrarie conclusion as that there ys bread remayning ergo it must not be worshipped Wherein both the argument concludeth not if he will folow Duns and Durand and the formar proposition ys hereticall if he would submitt his vnderstanding vnto the Catholyke church The argument I saye and the consequence ys nawght bycause for soth by his doctors Duns and Durand the schole men for all the substance of bread remainyng yet might the SacrameÌ„t be adored and worshipped But that is one doctors opinion Then also his antedent ys false because the church hath so receiued and tawght vs that the substance of bread ys clean conuerted And as concernyng master Iuell his profes of his antecedent where as he alleageth Sainct Augustyne in a sermon of his ad insantes saying that which you see vpon the table ys bread it doth conclud that the other thing which we beleue to be vnder those formes of bread is not Christ his naturall bodye And I trow Sainct Augustyne dyd not meane such bread to be there as childerne spread their butter vpon For it is wryten by the same blessed doctor VVe honor thinges which we see not that ys to saye flessh and bloud in the forme of bread and wyne which we see The church also herselfe feareth not to