non castè tamen cautè If ye doo it not chastely yet doo it charily Harding You mistake your marke M. Iewel naming Otho Bonus for Otho They were diuers menne as you might haue sene in the Constitutions that you allege wherein your skil in the Canon lawe appeareth If you had laid forth the place wholly as true and vpright dealing requireth it should soone haue appeared vpon how smal a matter you pike so great a quarrel Thus it is Iohannes de Athon who wrote the Glose vpon the Constitutions Legatine of Otho hauing declared how a Clerke by which worde is not meant onely a Priest as you alwaies interprete but any that is within Orders be they the lesser or the greater is to be pounished for hauing a Concubine at length after his manner demaundeth this question Sed quid dices de punitione ipsarum Concubinarum si ad suam excusationem coram Iudice ecclesiastico se asserant publicas Meretrices quaestu corporis viuentes But what wilt thou saie of the pounishment of the Concubines them selues if for their excuse they saie before the ecclesiastical Iudge that they are common whoores lyuing by the gaine of that filthy seruice of their body Now immediatly there foloweth the answer which M. Iewel bringeth against the Canonistes not without a litle point of falsifying by nipping awaie this word Hoc an ordinarie marke of his workemanship Hoc nipâ—e avvaie by M. Ievv a vvorde of important siâ—uification Videtur quòd Hoc crimen Meretricij sub dissimulatione transire debeat Ecclesia It seemeth that the Churche ought to passe ouer this Crime of whooredome vnder dissimulation that is to saie to dissemble it The cause why the Churche ought to dissemble this crime in suche wemen as professe publique whooredom whiche the author of that Glose saith not precisely but speaketh it as an opinion and as a thing that seemed to some menne reasonable I had rather M. Iewel heard it of an other man then of me Certainely he maie iudge it is not altogether without cause that al Christendome ouer whereas al other wemen be pounished for the sinne of the flesh onely the common and publique whoores be let alone vnder dissimulation Yet it argueth not that simple fornication is made no sinne If M. Iewel would haue read further in that Glose he should haue founde these expresse wordes by whiche the Canonistes are cleered and he further charged with a false sclaunder Dic tamen quòd hoc peccatum prosequi debet Ecclesia vt mortale Ibidem Yet saie thou by whiche wordes he signifieth his owne opinion that the Church ought to pursue this sinne Vnde illud vulgare Si non castè tamen cautè as deadly sinne Whereof it foloweth that continuing in suche life they might not be admitted to the Sacramentes of holy Church As for those other wordes whiche we finde in the Glose Si non castè tamen cautè they are there rehersed as a common saying not as a rule or a precepte of the Canon Lawe neither perteine they to clerkes more then to the laie sorte The circumstance of the place considered and weighed al thinges maie seme there to be wel and discretely said Of two that committe Fornication he doth lesse euil that dooth it secretely then the other that doth it openly For the open fornicatour increaseth the offence by his il example by the offence the people take of it and by the contempte of his owne fame and good name Of suche a one it is said there out of the Lawe quòd famae suae prodigus etiam quoad homines suspensus est licet occulta fornicatio quoad Deum turbet bonam conscientiam that being a recheles loser of his owne fame he is suspended also as concerning the estimation of menne although the pryuie Fornication doo trouble a good conscience as touching God So then if it be an il thing a man to be suspended among menne and to lose the fame of his honestie Crudelis est qui famam contemnit if he be accompted cruel and desperate that careth not for his good name if it be dangerous to the soule also to prouoke others to offend by il example al these euilles folowing the publique and open fornicatour though secrete fornication ought also hartily to greeue and vexe the conscience before God how shal not that vulgare saying seeme to geue good counsel Si non castè tamen cautè whereby a man is not animated at al to doo il but if he hap to do his vncleane lust If not chastely yet charily or wil not be staid from it is admonished to doo it charily though not chastly And if there were any il meaning in this vulgare saying as there is not though it maie be abused to cast some shadow vpon euil lyuers the iudgement of the Canonistes were not to be reproued thereof but the custome of the worlde from whence it proceeded Iewel Pag. 360. Likevvise saith Petrus Rauennas one of your notable Canonistes Extra de immunitate EcclesiaruÌ„ Pet. RaueÌ„nas vpon the Decretalles Quamuis tactus oscula sint praeludia incontinentiae in Laicis secus tamen est in Clericis Nam Clericus praesumitur ista facere pro charitate bono Zelo. Notvvithstanding handeling and kissing in laie Personnes be the occasions or beginninges of incontinent behauiour yet in Priestes it is far othervvise For a Priest is presumed to doâ— these thinges of Charitie and of good zele Harding Yet Petrus Rauennas saith not that Simple Fornication is no sinne That is the thing you haue taken in hande to proue against the Canonistes When touche you the point In Italie where this lawier liued to kisse a woman is taken for a certaine earnest of a wanton bargaine promised and therefore openly men kisse not women at first and last salutations as the vse is in England But bicause that thing maie be in it selfe diuers according to the diuers manners of Countries and therefore maie be deemed good nolesse then euil menne being bounde to iudge the best of that whiche maie be wel done or is at least indifferent the Lawier considering the vertue and degree of a Clerke saith that an euil presumption is not lightly to be taken thereof but willeth it to be taken for courtesie and charitable salutation as it is taken in England and in sundry other countries Extra de Prebend c. nisi in principio For the qualitie and state of the person doth oftentimes purge the suspicion that otherwise is woont to rise of any acte Let vs heare what other Gloses this Gloser bringeth for his purpose Iewel Pag. 360. 11. quaest 3. Absit in Glossa Likevvise it is noted in your Glose Si Clericus amplectitur mulierem Laicus interpretabitur quod causa benedicendi eam hoc faciat If a Priest imbrace a vvoman a laieman must iudge of it thus that he dooth it to the intent to blesse her VVhere also ye
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
Iewel that both I and M. Richard Dominike that Reuerend and vertuous Priest Prebendary also there whom in your visitation for the Quenes highnes ye appointed to be a prisoner as also my selfe in myne owne house at Sarisburie vtterly and with expresse wordes refused to geue our voices and consent to your pretésed Election Truly we accōpted it no lesse crime to haue chosen you Bishop of Sarisburie then to haue chosen Arius Eunomius Nestorius Eutyches Aerius Pelagius or any other the like Heretike Wherefore reuoke so manie Vntruthes you haue here vttered with one breath Your Election was neither free nor Canonical the whole Chapter was not present I was not one of that cōpanie I gaue not my consent Now that you haue so impudētly affirmed al this notwithstanding take heed that I may vse your owne wordes your owne breath blowe not against you al good and true men blowe not against you your owne conscience which is more to be feared blowe not against you and before God the true and iust Iudge blowe not you vpside downe Ievvel Pag. 130. As touching the impertinent tales of Ischyras and Zacchaeus they touch vs nothing they vvere none of ours vve knovv them not Our Bishops are made in fourme and order as they haue ben euer by free Electiō of the Chapter by Consecration of the Archbishop and other three Bishops Harding These true Histories not tales M. Iewel touch you in this behalfe bicause Priestes are not so consecrated with you that they may stand to offer the Sacrifice at the Aulter as it was reported of Ischyras that he had done As for breaking of a Chalice Athanas in Apolo 2. whiche was laid to Macarius charge Athanasius Priest who pulled Ischyras from the Aulter for that he tooke vpon him to celebrate the mysteries being made no Priest by laying on of handes of a Bishop with you this is a smal faulte For your felowes haue broken certaine hundredes of holy chalices in these low coūtries without making any cōscience therof at al. Moreouer Epiphanius writeth of Zacchaeus Contra haeret to 2. lib. 3. ludenter sancta Mysteria contrectabat sacrificia cùm laicus esset impudenter tractabat He boldly handled the holy Mysteries and whereas he was a Laye man he impudently handled the Sacrifices What Sacrifices I praie you hath your Religion which a Laye man may not handle as wel as a Priest But bicause you haue abandoned al external Sacrifice and Priesthood therefore you iudge the example of Zacchaeus belongeth nothing vnto you Certainely by those examples it is proued that ye are no Bishops and so farre they be not impertinent Your Bishoppes are made you saie in fourme and order What fourme and order meane you The fourme and order of these nevv Bishoppes Meane you the olde whiche was vsed in the firste fiue hundred yeres or the newe In the olde fourme after the Election notise was geuen to the Bishop of Rome and to al the Bishops of the Church that such a man was lawfully chosen Bishop within the Church and not schismatically And so al the other Bishops knew by the Communicatorie letters Cyprian li. 3. ep 13. to whom they should sende or of whom they should receiue such letters But so ye were not made Bishoppes If ye were shew vs to what Bishoppes out of England ye wrote any such letters After that the custome of those letters became to be out of vse the only Bishop of Romes Confirmation was in steede of the said notise and by him surely you were not confirmed And yet seing he is a Bishop if ye wil not graunt him the Confirmation ye ought at the lest to put him to knowledge of your Election that he may know you to be men with whom he may Communicate But for as much as you wrote not to him in that matter ye shewe that ye be no Catholike Bishops Fot neuer was there any Catholike Bishop in the Church which did not one waye or other shew him selfe to communicate with S. Peters Successour from the beginning til this daye Hovve vvas M. Ievv cōsecrate by an Archbishop and how the Archbishop him selfe But ye were made you saie by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes And how I praie you was your Archebishop him selfe Consecrated What three Bishops in the Realme were there to laye handes vpon him You haue now vttered a worse case for your selues then was by me before named For your Metropolitane who should geue authoritie to al your Consecrations him selfe had no lawful Consecration If you had ben Consecrated after the forme and order which hath euer ben vsed ye might haue had Bishops out of Fraunce to haue consecrated you in case there had lacked in England But now there were auncient Bishops inough in Englād who either were not required or refused to consecrate you which is an euident signe that ye sought not such a Consecratiō as had ben euer vsed but such a one wherof al the former Bishops were ashamed Iewel Pag. 130. Our Bishops are made by the admission of the prince And in this sorte not long sithens the Pope him selfe vvas admitted Platina in Seuerino Papa and as Platina saith vvithout the Emperours letters patentes vvas no Pope as hereafter it shal be shevved more at large Therefore vve neither haue Bishops vvithout Church nor Churche vvithout Bishops Harding The admission of the Prince is not reproued of vs The admission of a man by the Prince to a Bishoprike when it is done in his place For it is conuenient that as in the old time beside the Clergie whiche of right did chose the bishop the people were called to see who was chosen and to shew whether they liked or misliked him so much more the Prince who beareth the peoples person should haue his place of assent and consent in naming the Bishop and in commending him to the ende he may gouerne his shepe with the more loue and quiet when no man withstandeth his Election And in that sorte it was in deede the custome that euery Bishop of Rome should expect the Emperours consent vntil the Emperours them selues partly being content to remitte that custome did commit al to the Clergie and partly leafte it by prescription Neither was it of late that this custome ceased but wel neare seuen hundred yeres ago In Hadriano 3. as it may be seene in Platina But seing your Bishops were neither consecrated by those who lineally succeded the Apostles nor haue by your owne confession more power by Gods law then a Priest you both haue false Bishops without the true Church and a false Churche without true Bishops For the true Church hath Bishops That a Bishop is aboue a Priest which by Gods lawe ought to be aboue Priestes bicause S. Paule writing to Timothee a Bishop 1. Timo. 5. biddeth him not to admit an accusatiō against Priestes without two witnesses licencing him to admit such
it Of the povver of Priesthod He that listeth to see more of the necessitie of Confession maie resorte to M. Allens learned booke of the lawful power of Priesthod to remitte sinnes The fifth booke conteineth a Detection of M. Iewelles errours lies sclaunders c. touching the Marriages of Priestes and Votaries the Canonical Scriptures the Sacramentes and other pointes of Doctrine The wordes of the Apolagie In the Defence 2. parte ca. 8. Diuision 1. Pag. 163. VVe saie that Matrimonie is holy and honourable in al sortes and states of personnes as in the Patriarkes in the Prophetes in the Apostles in the holy Martyrs in the Ministers of the Churche and in Bishoppes and that it is an honest and lavvful thing as Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in matrimonie to take vpō him therevvith the dignitie of a Bishop Confutation fol. 73. b. Matrimonie is holy and honorable in al persons and an vndefyled bedde as sayth S. Paule Hebre. 13. Yet is it not lawful for them to marye whiche either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated almaner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy order For the vowed be forbidden mariage by expresse word of God Those that haue taken holy orders by tradition of the Apostles and auncient ordinaunce of the Church Touching the first the Scripture is plaine bicause a vowe is to be performed Psal 75. Vouete reddite Domino Deo vestro Vowe ye and paye or render that ye vowe to your Lorde God Christ also sayeth in the gospel Matt. 19. there be some eunuches that haue made them selues eunuches for the kingdome of heauens sake He that can take let him take Vovve-breakers in vvhat danger they stād 1. Tim. 5. Againe S. Paul speaking of young widowes which haue vowed and promised chastitie sayeth that when they waxe wanton against Christ they wil mary hauing damnation bicause they haue broken their first faith Whether these scriptures perteine hereto and be thus to be vnderstanded we referre vs to the primitiue Church and to al the holy Fathers * Frō starre to starre leafte out of M Ievels booke VVhat the Fathers haue iudged of mariages after vovv of chastitie De bono viduitatis Whosoeuer haue thus vowed chastitie or by receiuing holy orders haue bound them selues to the bond of cōtinencie to the same by auncient constitution of the Church annexed if afterward presuming to marye excuse the satisfying of their carnal lust with the name of wedlocke be they men be they women they liue in a damnable state and be worse then Aduouterers * Suche mariages or rather slydinges and falles frō the holier Chastitie that is vowed to God S. Augustine doubteth not but they be worse then aduowtries S. Cyprian calleth this case plaine incest S. Basile accompteth the mariages of vailed Virgins to be void of no force and facrilegious She that hath dispoused her selfe to our Lorde sayeth S. Basile is not free lib. de virginitate For her husband is not dead that she may mary to whom she list And whiles her immortal husband lyueth she shal be called an aduoutresse whiche for lustes of the flesh hath brought a mortal man into our Lordes chamber * Leaft out by M. Iev The case is like in the man And whereas such persons with deliberate vowe purposed to consecrat them selues to our Lord only maides by virginitie widowes by chastitie of widowehod priestes by single life and continencie they may not with good conscience marye bicause the lust of the flesh foloweth not that former purpose but draweth the soule to her vices from that whereto it is bounde For what so euer is the worke sayeth S. Basile before whiche reason and lawe goeth not in the mynde the same is of the conscience noted for vnlawful Of al such after many wordes vttered in reproufe of their lewdnes he concludeth that they folow not wedlocke but aduoutrie But for proufe that vowed persons may not marye it were not hard to alleage so muche out of the fathers as would fil a volume * Clerkes boūde to cōtinēcie Li. 1. c. 11 Paphutius Li. 1. c. 23. Touching the second the Apostles forbidde those that come single to the Clergie to marye except such as remaine in the inferiour orders and procede not to the greater as we find in their canons Can. 25. Paphnutius as Socrates and Sozomenus record in their Ecclesiastical storie said at the Nicene Councel that it was an old tradition of the Church that such as come to the degree or order of Priesthod single should not marye wiues And this is that holy Bishop Paphnutius whom these Euangelical vowe-breakers pretend to be their proctour for their vnlawful mariages * Leaft out by M. Iev Siritius and Innocentius vver not the first ordeiners of clerkes cōtinēcie Neither Pope Siritius and Innocentius the first who liued long aboue a thousand yeres past were the first makers of the lawe that forbiddeth Priestes to marie but declaring that the same was of olde time ordeined and vsed of the Church they condemne the disorders against the same committed * Reade who list the epistle of Siritius ad Himerium Tarraconensem cap. 7. the second epistle of Innocentius to Victricius Bishop of Roen cap. 9. and his third epistle to Exuperius B. of Tolouse cap. 1. and weighing wel these places he shal perceiue that these holy Popes forbad the ministers of the Church the vse of wedlocke by the same reason by which the priestes of Moses lawe were forbidden to come within their owne houses in the time when their course came to serue in the holy ministeries By the same reason also by whiche S. Paule required maried folke for a time to forbeare the vse of their wiues 1. Cor. 7. that they might attend praying The place of S. Chrysostome alleaged by this Defender wel considered Ansvver to Chrysostoms place disproueth no part of the Catholike doctrine in this hehalfe but condemneth both the doctrine and common practise of his companions these newe fleshly Gospellers His wordes be these vpon the saying of S. Paule In 1. cap. ad Tit. homil 2. that a Bishop ought to be without crime the husband of one wife The Apostle sayeth he stoppeth the mouthes of Heretikes which condemne mariage shewing that it is not an vncleane thing but so reuerent that with the same a man may ascend to the holy throne or seate he meant the state of a Bishop and herewith he chastiseth and restraineth the vnchast persons Tvvise married may not be Bishops ād vvhy Secōd mariages lauful yet open to accusations Leaft out by M. Iev not permitting thē who haue twise maried to atteine such a rome For whereas he kepeth no beneuolēce toward his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour Yea what greuous accusations shal not he be subiect vnto daily For ye al knowe right wel that albeit by the lawes the secōd mariages be permitted yet that
Ievvel 230. You saye yee exhort the people to receiue their maker VVhat Scripture vvhat father vvhat doctour euer taught you thus to saye It is the bread of our lord In Iohan. Tract 59. as S. Augustine saith it is not our Lord. It is a creature corruptible it is not the maker of heauen and earth Harding Iohan. 6. That vve receiue our maker in the B. Sacrament Good wordes M. Iewel I praie you Christ saith he that eateth me shal also liue for me Was he that spake these wordes the maker of heauen and earth or no If he were accursed be he that demeth him so to be If he be our maker and God when we exhort men to receiue him in the blessed Sacrament why maie we not exhort them to receiue their maker And the body of Christ hath no other person to rest in or to be susteined of beside him only who being the Son of God is maker of heaueÌ„ and earth You know that our forefathers were taught to cal it their maker euen as S. Augustine confesseth that his people called the Sacramente of the Aulter vitam life The blessed Sacrament our Lord and maker by verdit of S. Augustine Augustin in Iohan. Tract 59. 1. Cor. 11. You make as though S. Augustine denied the Sacrament to be our Lord which he neuer doth but rather saith Illi manducabaÌ„t panem dominum they did eate the bread their Lord but Iudas did eate Panem Domini the bread of our Lord against our Lord Illi vitam ille poenam They did eate life he did eate paine For he that eateth vnworthily saith the Apostle eateth damnation to himselfe If the Apostles at the supper of Christ did eate only the Sacrament for the scripture speaketh of none other thing eaten and yet they did eate the bread which is our Lorde as S. Augustine saith Certainely the heauenly bread of the SacrameÌ„t is our Lord. But Iudas is said to haue eaten the bread of our Lord against our Lord bicause he did eate the Sacrament vnworthily and so he did not eate our Lord as he is bread that is to say as he feedeth but as he is a iudge and as he condemneth the vnworthy eater to euerlasting paine For otherwise S. Augustine saith Augustin Epist 162. Iudas did care his maker that Iudas did eate his maker Sinit accipere venditorem suum quod norunt fideles pretium nostrum He suffereth him that sold him to receiue our price which the faithful knowe Our maker was our price through his humaine nature In illo Sacramento Christus est saith S. Ambrose quia corpus est Christi Christ is in that Sacrament Ambros de ijs qui initiant cap. 9. bicause it is the body of Christ Wherfore you see how litle cause ye haue to be so muche offended with me for saying when we exhort the people to receiue the blessed Sacrament that then we exhorte them to receiue their maker Of Transubstantiation and M. Iewels falsehod in that matter The 8. Chapter THe Real Presence is the grounde of this doctrine For seing Christ said Math. 26. take eate this is my body these being propre and not figuratiue wordes as it hath benne shewed before it followeth thereof that the body of Christe whiche is not made of nothing is at the lest wise made really present by vertue of the Consecration the substance of bread and wine conuerted and changed into it Ambros De Sacrament li. 4. cap. 4. Chrysost De Eucharistia in Encenijs For which cause S. Ambrose saith Vbi accesserit consecratio de pane fit caro Christi When consecration is come thereunto from of bread is made the body of Christe Likewise S. Chrysostom saith Num vides panem c. Seest thou bread Seest thou wine God forbid Thinke not so Like as if waxe be putte into the fire it is made like vnto it neither remaineth ought of the substance of waxe euen so here thinke the Mysteries to be consumed away with the presence of that body a. Sermone 5. de Pascha Eusebius Emissenus b. in catechetica Oratione Gregorius Nyssenus c. in Leuit cap. 22. Hesychius d in Iohan 6. Theophylante e. de orthodoxa fide li. 4. cap. 14. Theophylact in ca. Math. â—6 Damascen and al the other Fathers teache the same doctrine as it hath benne ofte tolde in other places Iewel 239. VVhat one vvorde speaketh Theophylact either of your TransubstaÌ„tiatiation or of your Real Presence or of your corporal and fleshly eating Harding Can there be any greater impudencie in the earth then to save that Theophylact speaketh not one word of these pointes Beside al that I haue alredy brought out of Theophylact in my Confutation how plaine is he where he writeth thus vpon S. Matthew Ineffabili operatione traÌ„siformatur etiam si nobis videatur panis quoniaÌ„ infirmi sumus et abhorremus crudas carnes comedere maximè hominis carnem Et ideo panis quidem apparet sed re vera caro est It is transfourmed by an vnspeakeable operation although it seeme bread to vs bicause we are weaklinges and do abhorre to eate rawe fleshe specially the flesh of man And therfore it appeareth to be bread but in deede it is flesh Can these woordes be eluded or shifted by your phrases and figuratiue speaches It seemeth bread but in deede it is flesh saith he what is then become of the bread It is transfourmed or made ouer into another thing Into what other thing but into the flesh of Christ And why remaineth the fourme of Breade whereas in deede it is made fleshe Bicause saith he we abhorre to eate rawe flesh and specially mannes flesh And yet speaketh not Theophylact one word of Transubstantiation or of the Real Presence of Christes flesh Many other places in him are as plaine as this but he that hath such a face as to denie this one wil not be moued if we bring forth neuer so many Hauing thus abused Theophylact perhappes he wil seme for antiquities sake to beare more reuerence towards S. Ambrose whom here he now taketh in hand Iewel Pag. 246. S. Ambrose saith of the bread and vvine Sunt quae erant in aliud mutantur They remaine the same that they vvere and are chaunged into an other thing S Ambrose saith not so Phie vvhat falsifiyng is this The natural creatures of the bread and wine in the supper of our Lord saith S. Ambrose remaine stil in substaÌ„ce as they were before yet are they changed into an other thing that is to say they are made the Sacrament of the bodie and bloude of Christ vvhich before they vvere not Harding Many other places M. Iewel make me doubte left you haue your conscience marked with the signe of Antichrist that is to say lest although you see and knowe your self to lie and to falsify the holy Fathers yet you wil not yeld vnto the truth in any point