Selected quad for the lemma: conscience_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
conscience_n	ghost_n	sin_n	sin_v	1,582	5	10.1697	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A05090	A plaine refutation of M. G. Giffardes reprochful booke, intituled a short treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein is discouered the forgery of the whole ministrie, the confusion, false worship, and antichristian disorder of these parish assemblies, called the Church of England. Here also is prefixed a summe of the causes of our seperation ... by Henrie Barrovve. Here is furder annexed a briefe refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and vs ... by I. Gren. Here are also inserted a fewe obseruations of M. Giff. his cauills about read prayer & deuised leitourgies.	Barrow, Henry, 1550?-1593.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593.	1591 (1591)	STC 1523; ESTC S104500	292,873	278

betwene the Donatistes cause ours I would if he would forbeare to conclude me a Donatist for this poinct demaund this question in their cause if their accusation had bene true Namely whether one that hath professed the faith and after so foully apostatat as to accuse his bretheren denie the faith persecute the truth he sometimes professed may without repentance be receiued into the Church againe Then whether though he repent and be receiued he be euer capable of the ministerie or no. Then whether he alone may ordaine an other Minister or no if hee do whether the other be a lawful Minister or no. But in such cases in the Churche I could like well to here some man to perswade to repentance or to cast out the obstinat by due order and neither Augustine nor Angell from heauē to plead for a tolleration of open transgression which pleading for sinne maketh vs suspect the matter verie deeply iustifijng neither Their similitudes the riuer from the fountaine the members the head the stock and the plant in their application wee approue not but hold the doctrine erronious that they thought anie thing could be ordeyned from the person of the man in that sort But your discent from Antichrist and pedegree in that kingedome is an other thing if you would please to conceiue it namely that your office names liuinges entrāce administration c is of the Pope of Satan and that whē his kingdome shalbe abolished your office name entrance Vicarage leitourgie and all shalbe cast with the great milstone vpon them with all such trafique into the bottome of the sea Herevpon it is we say your discent is from the Pope within few degrees being the childrē of these Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope who is the eldest sonne of Sathā and his vicar generall vpon earth whose image marke power and life you beare and together with him lyue reigne stand and fall as the branches with the tree for when the power decrees gouernment offices worship c of Antichrist is gone all your ministerie is vanished for euer The Lorde therfore put in her Ma ties heart to extirpate the same and to aduāce CHRISTS lawes ordinances ministerie worship c as he is worthie that euery knee may bowe vnto him But Mr. Giffard affirmeth we shal not be able to proue our accusation of their Ministerie that yt is by discent from Antichrist his reason is ther is no Minister in England by the Pope c. We shal not here need to seek out a Pope in England If hee will learne to distinguish betwene the Popes person and his decrees Canons orders after the Popes orders of priesthood he must be driuen to confesse their whole ministerie office entrance c to be drawen by discent and wee thinck Mr. Giff. will not hang the life and vertue of holy thinges vpon mens persons but vpon the ordinances of God lest he be a Donatist Hee further affirmeth the ministerie of publishing the Gospel delyvering the sacramentes is not the deuise of man but Christs ordinance Do you thinke Mr. Giff. can begg the question to affirme a Ministerie whose office entrance c is of Antichrist doth publish the Gospel Againe that they receiue yt as Christs Ministery when it is from point to point wholly found to be after the orders of Antichrist And when no shift wil help him out he is faine to affirme valiantly that the ministery was not vtterly destroyed in popery for there remained the Sacrament of Baptisme See here how he hath plunged himself into the sea of poperie and ouertumbled y e doctrines of his learned Fathers T. Co. saith from Malachie that the ministerie is not tyed to the succession of mens persons but to the law ordinances and what ministery the Popes is reade Reuel 9. c. You charge her Ma tie verie far to haue cast out y e true ministeri out of the lād for putting our Pope Cardinal shauē crowned Priest Fryer Monke Abbot And if y e Baptisme could not be a true Sacramēt without a lawful Minister then your ministerie being vnlawful ther is no seale w t promise no true church c. Seeing then the holy Ghost hath described that Church to be the Harlot sitting vpon many waters the mother of fornications confused Babel murderesse of the Saintes an holde of vncleane spirits and a cage of euerie vncleane and hatefull birde neither ministerie Sacramentes worship or anie thing remayneth there according to Gods ordinance and at the best you make your self this whole land Scismaticks from the true Church Ministeri Sacramentes if it so stand with the Church of Rome ministeri therof and of necessitie you are al Donatistes by your reasoning though my purpose is not to defend and proue in this discourse but to call a fewe notes to your memorie I will conclude this point that you are driuen to the Popes ministerie for your orders now desiring you to satisfie vs next time concerning the Popes damnable masse or Sacrament of the Altar if they be true Ministers whether the Church cā haue one Sacrament good and in other euil one with promise the other damnable blasphemous and accursed for I take it they cannot be true Ministers at the Font and sacriledgious massmongers at the Altar Weigh these things more cōsideratly before you publish such doctrines in England againe To the Sacramentes THe Donatistes did hold that the Sacramentes or efficacie of them depend vpon the worthines and holynes of the mā that administreth But the Brownistes are not of that minde To this obiection hee verie charitablie answereth that in this great ranke point of donatisme hee can finde no difference at all Let the wordes and meaning of both be skanned and it shall appeare manifestly that they hold the self same thing neither more nor lesse but like euen bretheren or ells Mr. Giffard wil be found a common lyer and sclanderer This mā may not be suspected of anie malitious practise to deface the truth yet is found to make his comparison by his false sclanders and not of anie direct sentence of ours What sinne hee is fallen into that so often dirideth the word bretheren let the godly consider The Donatistes held that if the man being a lawful Minister were a sinner the Sacrament delyuered by him was no true Sacramēt Mr. Giffard confesseth we hold no such thing where is then the consimilitude The Donatistes held that the faith or conscience of the gyuer did giue faith vnto purge make cleane the conscience of the receiuer and so of the contrarie the guyltines which doctrine we holde to be blasphemous it is only y e holy Ghost that worketh faith and purgeth from an euil conscience The Donatistes held that if he which did administer were an open sinner he was no Minister and so no Sacrament We do not hold that euery opē sinne maketh the Minister no Minister seing the high Priest manie times sinned vnder

the law yet his office still retained but we hold that the Minister ought to repent his sinne before he administer and the Church to admonish him of his knowen sinne before they suffer him to administer and not cōmunicat with him if he be obstinat If the Church neglect their dutie he and they transgresse yet do we not say that it is no Sacrament that he deliuereth or that his ministerie is disanulled But we must put Mr. Giffard in minde how far he is gone from our cause in this comparison We neuer disalowed their Sacramēts as being administred by a lawful Minister in a lawful office yet the man a sinner But of such counterfeites as haue neither lawfull office entrance c but stand enchanters in Antichristes kingdome so that these are not the personal sinnes of a Minister in the Church wherin Mr. Giff. wickednes appeareth to make the questiō of the mans person or his sinne when it is the ministery office entrance administation al which wee hold to be Antichristian and to haue nothing to do with the seales of Gods Couenant in this estate not here to speake of the altering of the institution in the maner of administring yt vvhich the Donatistes neuer either had cause or made question of as it seemeth And whether anie promise is made to the elementes abused in the false yea whether to the elementes or to the keeping of the lawes and ordinances in the true Church let Mr. Giffard make answere Further when we affirme the Sacramentes of the false Church to be no true seales of the Couenant because they are Idolatours and Idolatrous the Lordes ordinances prophaned and lawes wholly violated wee do not therby conclude it to bee no Baptisme concerning the outwarde washing for wee can put difference betwene a false and none a false Sacrament or counterfeit signe and none for the false Church is saide to haue her peace offringes And although wee holde them highly to tempt God to their owne condemnation if they repent not that wittingly prophane or of wilfull ignorance transgresse those high ordinances as in the false Church to be superstitious of the element where the lawe and Couenant is broken yet do wee not therevpon affirme wee neede anie reiterating of the outward signe as the Donatistes but hold this false signe nowe a true signe sufficient to vs concerning the outward washing Circumcision in the Apostasie of Israel which was without promise to the receiuers in that estate and nothing but sinne in yt yet stood for a sufficient outward cutting whē anie of them returned to the Church and ate of the Passouer wherof it was not lawfull for any vncircumcised to eate how the signe might haue bene reiterated if need had so required we may see by that of y e Apostle 1 Cor. 7. for gathering againe their circumcisiō if it might be gathered againe then secondly cut Where Mr. Giffard then in stead of performing his comparison saith that the Donatistes in rebaptising did better of both because he that is not baptised ought to be baptised he bewrayeth his ignorance that cannot put difference betwene a false Sacrament and none a false signe and none The grossnes also he supposeth to haue bene in vs is found in himself that lest he should make the false and counterfeit washing in the false church to be none runneth to iustifie the Church ministerie sacramentes c at ROME and so must conclude himself of necessitie a Schismaticke or a popish Priest which he will And where he demandeth whether he that knoweth he was neuer baptised can be saued if he seek not to be baptised when he may haue yt We demande againe how euer true baptisme should be restored if the false signe of baptisme which was then without promise in the false Church should not now be sufficient concerning the outward signe To the Government IN the principle of principles that I say not the verie summe of all causes of our separation from these assemblies namely the gouernment which Mr. GIFFARD termeth discipline he can not finde any cōsimilitude betwene the Donatistes and vs for the confesseth he hath not read that they did take anie exception against it in that tyme. Take your word discipline for al the meanes that CHRIST hath apointed by his lawes ministerie censures to keepe guyde gouerne his Church ioyntly and seuerally to be instructed in their duties and see what a dilemma you are come vnto this being grāted that herein ther is no agreement seeing the chief cause of our controuersie with you is for the rable of this Antichristian and pse●dohierarchie Courtes c which haue no place in the Church of God where CHRISTS officers offices lawes censures ought to gouerne and guyde his Church But here according to your accustomed maner you goe about to say there were faultes to be found in their gouernment then yea as well as in their worship c which you affirmed to be as corrupt as yours is now wherein if ante regard were to be had of your words you would not only make those Bishopps in as euill state as these that Church as yours now but haue cast into the fire al the platformes that your learned Reformistes haue pleaded for from that falsly so called Primatiue Church Well I haue told you the question is not whether they had the true gouernment or no whether in that gouernment there were corruptions defaultes or negligences but whether the Donatistes separated therfore or no they had the same offices officers lawes censures that the other so that you speak not only false in saying they might haue had as iust cause in this respect of separation as we but also bring the Argument to confound your self with your whole Church wherin you stand a Priest Thus you are separated from the Church of ROME but retaine still the same hierarchie worship gouernment that they vsed and haue as the Do. of the Churches from which they separated therfore you in this as in the rest of your Argumentes conclude your selues Donatistes Heretickes and Schismatickes from the Church of ROME But Mr. GIFFARD will denie that the Donatistes had as great cause to separate from those Churches frō which they separated as those English Priestes from their Graundfather the Pope for it was not so corrupted The same we answere to you for your gouernment how then shall we end this matter I take it thus that the Priestes of England despise the Popes person and yet keepe the same orders lawes officers offices that he erected So the Donatistes kept stil the orders of gouernment that the Churches they separated from Now if we can cleare our selues that we retaine not the same gouernment amongst vs that the Church doth we separat from which I thinke cannot be denyed then Mr. GIF hath in a chief principle put himself and this whole laud into the number of Donatistes The Argument is now this The Church of England separateth from the Church of