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A14227 An ansvver to a challenge made by a Iesuite in Ireland Wherein the iudgement of antiquity in the points questioned is truely delivered, and the noveltie of the now romish doctrine plainly discovered. By Iames Vssher Bishop of Meath. Ussher, James, 1581-1656.; Malone, William, 1586-1656. 1624 (1624) STC 24542; ESTC S118933 526,688 560

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a naturall man wee understand one that is without Christ and destitute of his renewing grace by free-will that which the Philosophers call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a thing that is in our owne power to doe and by good a Theologicall not a Philosophicall good bonū veré spirituale salutare a spirituall good and tending to salvation This then is the difference which Gods word teacheth us to put betwixt a regenerate an unregenerate man The one is alive unto God through Iesus Christ our Lord and so inabled to yeelde himselfe unto God as one that is alive from the dead and his members as instruments of righteousnesse unto God having his fruite unto holinesse and the end everlasting life The other is a meere stranger from the life of God dead in trespasses and sinnes and so no more able to lead a holy life acceptable unto God then a dead man is to performe the actions of him which is alive He may live indeed the life of a naturall and a morall man and so exercise the freedome of his Will not onely in naturall and civill but also in morall actions so farre as concerneth externall conformitie unto those notions of good and evill that remaine in his minde in respect whereof the verie Gentiles themselves which have not the Law are said to doe by nature the things contayned in the Law he may have such fruite as not onely common honestie and civilitie but common giftes of Gods spirit likewise will yeelde and in regard thereof hee may obtaine of God temporall rewards appertayning to this transitorie life and a lesser measure of punishment in the world to come yet untill he be quickened with the life of grace married to him who is raysed from the dead he cannot bring forth fruite unto God nor be accepted for one of his servants This is the doctrine of our Saviour himselfe Iohn 15.4 5. As the branch cannot beare fruite of it selfe except it abide in the vine no more can yee except yee abide in me I am the Vine yee are the branches He that abideth in me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruite for without me yee can doe NOTHING that is nothing truely good and acceptable unto God This is the lesson that S. Paul doth everie where inculcate I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing The naturall man perceiveth not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishnesse unto him neyther can he understand them because they are spiritually discerned Without faith it is impossible to please God Vnto them that are defiled and unbeleeving is nothing pure but even their minde conscience is defiled Now seeing the end of the commandement is charitie out of a pure heart and of a good conscience and of faith unfained seeing the first beginning from whence every good action should proceed is a sanctified heart the last end the seeking of Gods glorie and faith working by love must intercurre betwixt both the morall workes of the unregenerate fayling so fowly both in the beginning middle and end are to be accounted breaches rather of the Commandement then observances depravations of good workes rather then performances For howsoever these actions be in their owne kinde good and commanded of God yet are they marred in the carriage that which is bonum being not done bene and so though in regard of their matter they may be accounted good yet for the maner they must be esteemed vitious The Pelagian heretickes were wont here to object unto our forefathers as the Romanistes doe now a daies unto us both the examples of the Heathen vvho being strangers from the faith did notwithstanding as they said abound with vertues and S. Pauls testimonie also concerning them Rom. 2.14 15. by which they laboured to prove that even such as were strangers from the faith of Christ might yet have true righteousnesse because that these as the Apostle witnessed naturally did the things of the Law But will you heare how S. Augustine tooke up Iulian the Pelagian for making this ob●ection Herein hast thou expressed more evidently that doctrine of yours wherein you are enemies unto the grace of God which is given by Iesus Christ our Lord who taketh away the sinne of the world bringing in a kinde of men which may please God without the faith of Christ by the law of nature This is it for which the Christiā Church doth most of all detest you again Be it farre from us to thinke that true vertue should be in any one unlesse he were righteous And as farre that one should be truly righteous unlesse he did live by faith for the just doth live by faith Now which of them that would have themselves accounted Christians but the Pelagians alone or even among them perhaps thou thy selfe alone would say that an infidell were righteous would say that an ungodly man were righteous would say that a man mancipated to the Devill were righteous although he were Fabricius although hee were Fabius although hee were Scipio although he were Regulus And whereas Iulian had further demanded If a Heathen man doe cloath the naked because it is not of faith is it therefore sinne Saint Augustine answereth absolutely in as much as it is not of faith it is sinne not because the fact considered in it selfe which is to cloath the naked is a sinne but of such a worke not to glory in the Lord none but an impious man will deny to be a sinne For howsoever in it selfe this naturall compassion be a good worke yet hee useth this good worke amisse that useth it unbeleevingly and doth this good work amisse that doth it unbeleevingly but who so doth any thing amisse sinneth surely From whence it is to be gathered that even those good workes which unbeleevers doe are not theirs but his who maketh good use of evill men but that the sinnes are theirs whereby they doe good things amisse because they doe them not with a faithfull but with an unfaithfull that is with a foolish and naughtie will Which kinde of will no Christian doubteth to be an evill tree which cannot bring forth but evill fruits that is to say sinnes only For all that is not of faith whether thou wilt or no is sinne This and much more to the same purpose doth Saint Augustine urge against the Heretike Iulian prosecuting at large that conclusion which hee layeth downe in his booke of the Acts of the Palestine Councell against Pelagius How much soever the works of unbeleevers be magnified we know the sentence of the Apostle to be true and invincible Whatsoever is not of faith is sinne Which maketh him also in his Retractations to correct himselfe for saying in one place That the Philosophers shined with the light of vertue who were not endued with true pietie The like sentence doth Saint
yee forgive anie thing I forgive also for if I forgave anie thing to whom I forgave it for your sakes I forgave it in the person of Christ. For as in the name and by the power of our Lord Iesus such a one was delivered to Satan so God having given unto him repentance to recover himselfe out of the snare of the Divell in the same name and in the same power was hee to be restored againe the ministers of reconciliation standing in Christs stead and Christ himselfe being in the mids of them that are thus gathered together in his name to binde or loose in heaven whatsoever they according to his commission shall binde or loose on earth And here it is to be noted that Anastasius by some called Nicaenus by others Sinaita and Antiochenus who is so eager against them which say that Confession made unto men profiteth nothing at all confesseth yet that the minister in hearing the confession and instructing and correcting the sinner doth but give furtherance onely thereby unto his repentance but that the pardoning of the sinne is the proper worke of God For man saith he cooperateth with man unto repentance and ministreth and buildeth and instructeth and reproveth in things belonging unto salvation according to the Apostle and the Prophet but God blotteth out the sinnes of those that have confessed saying I am he that blotteth out thine iniquities for mine owne sake and thy sinnes and will not remember them There followeth now another part of the ministery of reconciliation consisting in the due administration of the Sacraments which being the proper seales of the promises of the Gospell as the Censures are of the threats must therefore necessarily also have reference to the remission of sinnes And so we see the ancient Fathers doe hold that the commission Ioh. 20.23 Whose sinnes yee remit they are remitted unto them c. is executed by the ministers of Christ aswell in the conferring of Baptisme as in the reconciling of Penitents yet so in both these and in all the sacraments likewise of both the Testaments that the ministerie onely is to be accounted mans but the power Gods For as S. Augustin well observeth it is one thing to baptize by way of ministerie another thing to baptize by vvay of power the power of baptizing the Lord retayneth to himselfe the ministerie hee hath given to his servants the power of the Lords Baptisme was to passe from the Lord to no man but the ministery was the power was to be transferred from the Lord unto none of his ministers the ministery was both unto the good and unto the bad And the reason which hee assigneth hereof is verie good that the hope of the baptized might be in him by whom they did acknowledge themselves to have beene baptized The Lord therefore would not have a servant to put his hope in a servant And therefore those Schoolemen argued not much amisse that gathered this conclusion thence It is a matter of equall power to baptize inwardly and to absolve from mortall sinne But it vvas not fit that God should communicate the power of baptizing inwardly unto any lest our hope should be reposed in man Therefore by the same reason it was not fit that hee should communicate the power of absolving from actuall sinne unto any So Bernard or whosoever was the author of the booke intituled Scala Paradisi The office of baptizing the Lord granted unto many but the power and authoritie of remitting sinnes in baptisme he retayned unto himselfe alone whence Iohn by vvay of singularitie and differencing said of him He it is which baptizeth with the holy Ghost And the Baptist indeed doth make a singular difference betwixt the conferrer of the externall and the internall baptisme in saying I baptize with water but it is hee which baptizeth with the holy Ghost While Iohn did his service God did give who fayleth not in giving and now when all others doe their service the service is mans but the gift is Gods saith Optatus and Arnaldus Bonaevallensis the author of the twelve treatises de Cardinalibus operibus Christi falsely ascribed to S. Cyprian touching the Sacraments in generall Forgivenesse of sinnes whether it be given by Baptisme or by other sacraments is properly of the holy Ghost and the priviledge of effecting this remayneth to him alone But the word of reconciliation is it wherein the Apostle doth especially place that ministerie of reconciliation which the Lord hath committed to his Ambassadors here upon earth This is that key of knowledge which doth both open the conscience to the confession of sinne and include therein the grace of the healthfull mysterie unto eternitie as Maximus Taurinensis speaketh of it This is that powerfull meanes which God hath sanctified for the washing away of the pollution of our soules Now ye are cleane saith our Saviour to his Apostles through the word which I have spoken unto you And whereas everie transgressor is holden with the cords of his owne sinnes the Apostles according to the commission given unto them by their Master that whatsoever they should loose on earth should be loosed in heaven did loose those cords by the word of God and the testimonies of the Scriptures and exhortation unto vertues as saith S. Hierome Thus likewise doth S. Ambrose note that sinnes are remitted by the word of God whereof the Levite was an interpreter and a kinde of an executer in that respect concludeth that the Levite was a minister of this remission As the Iewish Scribes therefore by taking away the key of knowledge did shut up the kingdom of heaven against men so every Scribe which is instructed unto the kingdome of heaven by opening unto his hearers the doore of faith doth as it were unlock that kingdome unto them being the instrument of God herein to open mens eyes and to turne them from darkenesse to light and from the power of Satan unto God that they may receive forgivenesse of sinnes and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith in Christ. And here are we to understand that the ministers of Christ by applying the word of God unto the consciences of men both in publick and in private doe discharge that part of their function which concerneth forgivenesse of sinnes partly operatively partly declaratively Operatively inasmuch as God is pleased to use their preaching of the Gospell as a meanes of conferring his spirit upon the sonnes of men of begetting them in Christ and of working faith and repentance in them whereby the remission of sinnes is obtayned Thus Iohn preaching the Baptisme of repentance for the remission of sinnes and teaching the people that they should beleeve on him which should come after him that is on Christ Iesus is said to turne manie of the children of Israel to the
Lord their God and the disobedient to the wisedome of the just by giving knowledge of salvation to Gods people unto the remission of their sins Not because he had properly anie power given him to turne mens hearts and to worke faith and repentance for forgivenesse of sinnes when and where he thought good but because he was trusted with the ministerie of the word of Gods grace which is able to convert and quicken mens soules and to give them an inheritance among all them which are sanctified by the powerfull application of which word he who converteth the sinner from the errour of his way is said to save a soule from death and to hide a multitude of sinnes For howsoever in true proprietie the covering of sinnes the saving from death and turning of men from their iniquities is a priviledge peculiar to the Lord our God unto whom alone it appertayneth to reconcile the world to himselfe by not imputing their sinnes unto them yet inasmuch as he hath committed unto his ambassadors the word of reconciliation they in performing that worke of their ministerie may be as rightly said to be imployed in reconciling men unto God and procuring remission of their sinnes as they are said to deliver a man from going downe into the pit when they declare unto him his righteousnesse and to save their hearers when they preach unto them the Gospel by which they are saved For as the word it selfe which they speake is said to be their word which yet is in truth the word of God so the worke which is effectually wrought by that word in them that beleeve is said to be their worke though in truth it be the proper worke of God And as they that beleeve by their word are said to be their Epistle 2. Cor. 3.2 that is to say the Epistle of Christ ministred by them as it is expounded in the verse following in like maner forgivenesse of sinnes and those other great graces that appertaine to the beleevers may be said to be their worke that is to say the worke of Christ ministred by them For in verie deed as Optatus speaketh in the matter of Baptisme not the minister but the faith of the beleever and the Trinitie doe bring these things unto every man And where the preaching of the Gospel doth prove the power of God unto salvation onely the weakenesse of the externall ministerie must be ascribed to men but the excellency of the power must ever be acknowledged to be of God and not of them neyther he that planteth being here any thing neyther he that watereth but God that giveth the increase For howsoever in respect of the former such as take paines in the Lords husbandry may be accounted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Apostle termeth them labourers together with God though that little peece of service it selfe also bee not performed by their owne strength but according to the grace of God which is given unto them yet that which followeth of giving the increase God effecteth not by them but by himselfe This saith S. Augustin exceedeth the lowlinesse of man this exceedeth the sublimitie of Angels neither appertayneth unto anie but unto the husbandman the Trinity Now as the Spirit of God doth not onely wo●ke diversities of graces in us distributing to every man severally as he will but also maketh us to know the things that are freely given to us of God so the ministers of the New Testament being made able ministers of the same spirit are not onely ordayned to be Gods instruments to worke faith and repentance in men for the obtayning of remission of sinnes but also to declare Gods pleasure unto such as beleeve and repent and in his name to certifie them and give assurance to their consciences that their sinnes are forgiven they having received this ministerie of the Lord Iesus to testifie the Gospell of the grace of God and so by their function being appointed to be witnesses rather then conferrers of that grace For it is here with them in the loosing part as it is in the binding part of their ministerie where they are brought in like unto those seuen Angels in the book of the Revelation which powre out the vialls of the wrath of God upon the earth having vengeance ready against all disobedience and a charge from God to cast men out of his sig●t not because they are properly the avengers for that title God challengeth unto himselfe or that vengeance did anie way appertaine unto them for it is written Vengeance is mine I will repay saith the Lord but because they were the denouncers not the inflicters of this vengeance So though it be the Lord that speaketh concerning a nation to pluck up and to pull down and to destroy or on the other side to build and to plant it yet he in whose mouth God put those words of his is said to be set by him over the nations and over the kingdomes to roote out and to pull downe and to destroy and to throw downe to build and to plant as if he himselfe were a doer of those great matters who was onely ordeyned to be a Prophet unto the nations to speake the things unto them which God had commanded him Thus likewise in the thirteenth of Leviticus where the Lawes are set downe that concerne the leprosie which was a type of the pollution of sinne wee meet often with these speeches The Priest shall cleanse him and The Priest shall pollute him and in the 44. verse The Priest with pollution shall pollute him not saith S. Hierome that he is the author of the pollution but that he declareth him to be polluted who before did seeme unto many to have beene cleane Whereupon the Master of the Sentences following herein S. Hierome and being afterwards therein followed himselfe by manie others observeth that in remitting or retayning sinnes the Priests of the Gospell have that right and office which the legall Priests had of old under the Law in curing of the lepers These therefore saith hee forgive sinnes or retaine them whiles they shew and declare that they are forgiven or retayned by God For the Priests put the name of the Lord upon the children of Israel but it was he himselfe that blessed them as it is read in Numbers The place that he hath referrence unto is in the sixth chapter of that booke where the Priests are commanded to blesse the people by saying unto them The Lord blesse thee c. and then it followeth in the last verse of that chapter So they shall put my Name upon the children of Israel and I will blesse them Neyther doe we grant hereupon as the Adversarie falsely chargeth us that a lay-man yea or a woman or a childe or any infidell or the Divell the Father of all
more unlearned and unhappy If I bee not able to discover what feates the Divell wrought in that time of darkenesse wherin men were not so vigilant in marking his conveyances and such as might see somewhat were not so forward in writing bookes of their Observations must the infelicitie of that age wherein there was little learning and lesse writing yea which for want of Writers as Cardinal Baronius acknowledgeth hath been usually named the Obscure age must this I say inforce me to yeeld that the Divell brought in no tares all that while but let slip the opportunitie of so darke a night and slept himselfe for company There are other meanes left unto us whereby we may discerne the Tares brought in by the instruments of Satan from the good seed which was sowen by the Apostles of Christ beside this observation of times and seasons which will often faile vs. Ipsa doctrina eorum saith Tertullian cum Apostolicâ comparata ex diversitate contrarietate suâ pronuntiabit neque Apostoti alicujus auctoris esse neque Apostolici Their very doctrine it selfe being compared with the Apostolick by the diversitie and contrariety thereof will pronounce that it had for author neyther any Apostle nor any man Apostolicall For there cannot be a better prescription against Hereticall novelties then that which our Saviour Christ useth against the Pharisees From the beginning it vvas not so nor a better preservative against the infection of seducers that are crept in unawares then that which is prescribed by the Apostle Iude earnestly to contend for the faith vvhich vvas once delivered unto the Saints Now to the end we might know the certaintie of those things wherein the Saints were at the first instructed God hath provided that the memoriall thereof should be recorded in his owne Booke that it might remaine for the time to come for ever and ever He then who out of that Booke is able to demonstrate that the doctrine or practice now prevailing swarveth from that which was at first established in the Church by the Apostles of Christ doth as strongly prove that a change hath beene made in the middle times as if hee were able to nominate the place where the time when and the person by whom any such corruption was first brought in In the Apostles dayes when a man had examined himselfe hee was admitted unto the Lords Table there to eate of that bread and drinke of that cup as appeareth plainly 1. Cor. 11.28 In the Church of Rome at this day the people are indeed permitted to eate of the bread if bread they may call it but not allowed to drinke of the cup. Must all of us now shut our eyes and sing Sicut erat in principio nunc unlesse we be able to tell by whom and when this first institution was altered By S. Pauls order who would have all things done to edification Christians should pray with understanding and not in an unknowne language as may be seene in the fourteenth chapter of the same Epistle to the Corinthians The case is now so altered that the bringing in of a tongue not understood which hindred the edifying of Babel it selfe and scattered the builders thereof is accounted a good meanes to further the edifying of your Babel and to hold her followers together Is not this then a good ground to resolve a mans judgement that things are not now kept in that order wherin they were set at first by the Apostles although he be not able to point unto the first author of the disorder And as wee may thus discover innovations by having recourse unto the first and best times so may wee doe the like by comparing the state of things present with the middle times of the Church Thus I finde by the constant and approved practice of the auncient Church that all sorts of people men women and children had free libertic to reade the holy Scriptures I finde now the contrary among the Papists and shall I say for all this that they have not removed the bounds which were set by the Fathers because perhaps I cannot name the Pope that ventured to make the first inclosure of these commons of Gods people I heare S. Hier●me say Iudith Tobiae Macchabaeorum libros legit quidem Ecclesia sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit The Church doth reade indeed the books of Iudith and Toby and the Macchabees but doth not receive them for Canonicall Scripture I see that at this day the Church of Rome receiveth them for such May not I then conclude that betwixt S. Hieromes time and ours there hath beene a change and that the Church of Rome now is not of the same judgement with the Church of God the● howsoever I cannot precisely lay downe the time wherein shee first thought her selfe to be wiser herein then her Forefathers But here our Adversary closeth with us and layeth downe a number of points held by them and denied by us which he undertaketh to make good as well by the expresse testimonies of the Fathers of the Primitive Church of Rome as also by good and certaine grounds out of the sacred Scriptures if the Fathers authoritie will not suffice Where if hee would change his order and give the sacred Scriptures the precedency hee should therein do more right to God the author of them who well deserveth to have audience in the first place and withall ease both himselfe and us of a needlesse labour in seeking any further authority to compose our differences For if he can produce as he beareth us in hand he can good and certaine grounds o●t of the sacred Scriptures for the points in controversie the matter is at an end he that will not rest satisfied with such evidences as these may if he please travaile further and speed worse Therefore as S. Augustine heretofore provoked the Donatists so provoke I him Auferantur chartae humanae sonent voces divinae ede mihi unam Scripturae vocem pro parte Donati Let humane vvritings be removed let Gods voyce sound bring mee on●e voyce of the Scripture for the part of Donatus Produce but one cleere testimony of the sacred Scripture for the Popes part and it shall suffice alledge what authority you list without Scripture and it cannot suffice Wee reverence indeed the ancient Fathers as it is fit we should and hold it our duety to rise up before the hoare head and to honour the person of the aged but still with reservation of the respect we owe to their Father and ours that Ancient of dayes the hayre of vvhose head is like the pure vvooll We may not forget the lesson which our great Master hath taught us Call no man your Father upon the earth for one is your Father which is in heaven Him therefore alone doe wee acknowledge for the Father of our Faith no other Father doe we know upon whose bare credite
we may ground our consciences in things that are to be beleeved And this wee say not as if wee feared that these men were able to produce better proofes out of the writings of the Fathers for the part of the Pope then we can do for the Catholick cause when we come to joine in the particulars they shall finde it otherwise but partly to bring the matter unto a shorter triall partly to give the word of God his due and to declare what that rocke is upon which alone we build our faith even the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets from which no sleight that they can devise shall ever draw us The same course did S. Augustine take with the Pelagians against whom he wanted not the authority of the Fathers of the Church Which if I vvould collect saith he and use their testimonies it would be too long a worke and I might peradventure seeme to haue lesse confidence then I ought in the Canonicall authorities from which we ought not to be withdrawen Yet was the Pelagian Heresie then but newly budded which is the time wherein the pressing of the Fathers testimonies is thought to be best in season With how much better warrant may we follow this president having to deale with such as have had time and leisure enough to falsifie the Fathers writings and to teach them the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans The method of confuting heresies by the consent of holy Fathers is by none commended more then by Vincentius Lirinensis who is carefull notwithstanding herein to give us this caveat But neither alwayes nor all kindes of heresies are to be impugned after this manner but such only as are new and lately sprung namely when they doe first arise while by the straitnesse of the time it selfe they be hindred from falsifying the rules of the ancient faith and before the time that their poyson spreading farther they attempt to corrupt the writings of the ancient But farre-spred and inveterate heresies are not to bee dealt vvithall this way for as much as by long continuance of time a long occasion hath lyen open unto them to steale away the truth The heresies with which wee have to deale have spred so farre and continued so long that the defenders of them are bold to make Vniversality and Duration the speciall markes of their Church they had opportunity enough of time and place to put in ure all deceiveablenesse of unrighteousnesse neither will they have it to say that in coyning and clipping and washing the monuments of Antiquitie they have beene wanting to themselves Before the Councell of Nice as hath beene observed by one who sometime was Pope himselfe little respect to speake of was had to the Church of Rome If this may be thought to prejudice the dignity of that Church which would be held to have sate as Queene among the Nations from the very beginning of Christianity you shall have a craftie merchant Isidorus Mercator I trow they call him that will helpe the matter by counterfeiting Decretall Epistles in the name of the primitive Bishops of Rome and bringing in thirty of them in a row as so many Knights of the Poste to beare witnesse of that great authority which the Church of Rome enjoyed before the Nicene Fathers were assembled If the Nicene Fathers have not amplified the bounds of her jurisdiction in so large a maner as shee desired shee hath had her well-willers that have supplied the Councels negligence in that behalfe and made Canons for the purpose in the name of the good Fathers that never dreamed of such a businesse If the power of judging all others will not content the Pope unlesse he himselfe may be exempted from being judged by any other another Councell as ancient at least as that of Nice shall be suborned wherein it shall be concluded by the consent of 284 imaginarie Bishops that No man may judge the first seat and for fayling in an elder Councell then that consisting of 300 buckram Bishops of the very selfe same making the like note shall be sung quoniam prima sedes non judicabitur à quoquam The first seat must not be judged by any man Lastly if the Pope do not thinke that the fulnesse of spirituall power is sufficient for his greatnesse unlesse hee may be also Lord paramount in temporalibus hee hath his followers ready at hand to frame a faire donation in the name of Constantine the Emperour whereby his Holinesse shall be estated not only in the Citie of Rome but also in the seigniory of the whole West It would require a Volume to rehearse the names of those severall Tractates which have beene basely bred in the former dayes of darknesse and fathered upon the ancient Doctors of the Church who if they were now alive would be deposed that they were never privie to their begetting Neither hath this corrupting humour stayed it selfe in forging of whole Councels and intire Treatises of the ancient writers but hath like a canker fretted away diverse of their sound parts and so altered their complexions that they appear not to be the same men they were To instance in the great question of Transubstantiation we were wont to reade in the books attributed unto S. Ambrose De Sacramentis libr. 4. cap. 4. Si ergo tanta vis est in sermone Domini Iesu ut inciperent esse quae non erant quanto magis operatorius est ut sint quae erant in aliud commutentur If therefore there be so great force in the speech of our Lord Iesus that the things which were not begun to bee namely at the first creation how much more is the same powerfull to make that things may still be that which they were and yet be changed into another thing It is not unknowne how much those words ut sint quae erant have troubled their braines who maintaine that after the words of consecration the elements of bread and wine be not that thing which they were and what devises they have found to make the bread and wine in the Sacrament to be like unto the Beast in the Revelation that was and is not and yet is But that Gordian knot which they with their skill could not so readily untye their masters at Rome Alexander-like have now cut asunder paring cleane away in their Romane Edition which is also followed in that set out at Paris Anno 1603. those words that so much troubled them and letting the rest run smoothly after this maner quanto magis operatorius est ut quae erant in aliud cōmutentur how much more is the speech of our Lord powerfull to make that those things which were should be changed into another thing The author of the imperfect work upon Matthew homil 11. writeth thus Si ergo haec vasa sanctificata ad privatos usus transferre sic periculosum est in quibus non est verum corpus Christi sed