sit as vpon manie waters So in like maner can this house this church this people of CHRIST be built into none other order receiue none other ministrie and ordinances then CHRIST the owner builder of the house hath instituted prescribed in his last wil testament We may boldly affirme coÌ„clude that flocke which consisteth of all sortes of wilde vncleane beastes not to be the flocke or shepe-folde of CHRIST in asmuch as these in this estate cannot of vs be iudged to be the shepe of CHRIST We may also by the same vndoubted reason affirme that they which stand hierdes to these wilde and vncleane beastes cannot be said the Lordes shepeherdes of his shepe lambes Of what sortes of people these their parish assemblies generally consiste how they haue bene gathered builte stand and walke in the faith order of CHRIST by that which is aboue written may partly appeare but much more shall to euerie single eye heart wherein is any light vpon the furder examination of their present estate life That this Aucthor and all the Priestes of the tyme stand hierdes administring the Sacraments c to these prophane multitudes in this ignorance confusion and sinne after that idolatrous superstitious maner aboue-said for their hire or tithes cannot be denied What defence this Champion hath made for their publique administration worship and how by neuer a worde of God he hath iustified any one of those manifold enormities idolatries reckoned vp vnto him As also how he hath approued the gathering and present estate of their Church by the greatest apostasies defectioÌ„s sinnes of other Churches in other ages and with what blasphemous doctrines tending to all Atheisme and impietie we are content to refer to the iudgment of the godly readers And now being come to the proofe defence of his owne Ministrie which he exerciseth and of the whole Ministrie of their Church instead of CHRISTS Testament he bringeth vs forth a fable out of ESOPE of the asse in the Lyons skinne and at the first entrance into this discourse in the first page within the space of 24 lynes he convinceth vs with these arguments That we are prompt plentiful in false accusations hereticall opinions which must be admitted for reasons against their Church vvorship ministerie That vve are desirous of glorie presumptuous bold rash ignorant not to be encountred vvith great learning Sophisters nay poore artificers and husbandmen are the eauenest matches to dispute vvith vs VVe haue put on the Lions skinne and imagine that all learned men tremble at vs but they haue espied our long cares That vve impudently sclander and belye the learned vvho disdaine to deale vvith mad frensie That vve are vvithout all care vvhat vve speake c. Is yt likely that this man hath either care or conscience what he saith that through his whole booke from the first to the laste worde thus rayleth inverâ—th accuseth blasphemeth Are these the sweetest waters in his fountaine the best salt he can season vs with Or do the Ministers of the Church of England thus vse to improue rebuke exhort with al longe suffring doctrine Is this Mr. GIFFARDS countrie diuinitie or vniuersitie learning or Courtly Chaplen-like behauioure He hath a president what a goodly viewe Mr. SOME makes in his colours If he lighted into some mens handes that would take pleasure to laye open his shame Mr. SOME his paynter might giue place in al rayling and vituperie where this man should appeare But our purpose is not to meddle with his raylinges so much as his reasons leauing him to answeare for the one and endeuouring our selues to answeare the other Yet this we saye that if this be the course of those great learned the speaketh of we had much rather be matched with such poore artificers and husbandmen as feare God whom he despiseth their with these greate Clarkes Yea we had much rather that they should in disdaine of our ignorance breake their promise in denijng and refusing to conferre with vs then in this maner grieue the spirite of God in vs by such hellish writinges as this booke of GIFFARD peruerting the Scriptures pleading for defending and iustifijng the throne of iniquitie together with all the enormities idolatrie and abhominations which flowe from the same railing blaspheming and accusing the truth and the poore persecuted professors therof as he doth Yet to satisfie the reader in this matter which he so confidently denieth and vrgeth vs so vehemently to make some colourable shewe of That if he had consulted with his learned bretheren the forewarde Preachers they would haue councelled him rather to haue vsed his discretion in the pulpit where he might feigne what error he lifte and then with the same breath confute yt in our names then by conference but especially thus by writing to meddle with the defense of these defaults and exceptions taken against their Church Ministrie Worship c knowing that the more they are discussed and raued in the more apparant odious they wil appeare vnto all men especially when they are brought vnto examined by the light which will foorth-with shew of what sorte they are That these Preachers had takeÌ„ this course amongst theÌ„selues we knowe certainly by a letter that two of the cheif of them sent vnto vs deniâ—ng that conference which they had before promised because we denyed their Church and Ministrie After that two of them being procured to our prison denyed to deale with vs concerning those exceptions we made against their Church Ministrie alleadging that they were forbidden by their brethereÌ„ to deale with vs in those matters To be shorte what â—lls can with any probalitie be coniectured to be the hindrance of the first companie of Preachers that at the first sent vnto vs to knowe the causes of our dislike promising either to assent or to shew vnto vs the causes whie they could not that they vpon the sight of that litle paper wherin we set downe vnto them the causes of our separatioÌ„ from these parish assemblies as also what we purposed in our owne assemblies neuer as yet could be drawen to make any answeare in writing or conference if not that they perceiued that they were neither able to defend their estate neither yet had faith to leaue it for feare of persecution danger And whatsoeuer this bold champion may pretend we caÌ„not be persuaded that euer the forewarde sort of Preachers that sometime laboured reformation euer gaue their consentes to this blasphemous booke of his except also together with the aucthor therof they haue made shipwracke of faith good conscience and be wholy apostatate fallen froÌ„ that smale measure of grace light they sometimes made shew of Neither shal those pontifical Prelates his Lordes their horned Cleargie or Romish associates the Ciuilianes and Canonistes to whom he is yeilded ioyned giue him any thanckes in the end for all the
shew that one sheepheard at one the same time can diligently feed guide two or many flockes far distant in place Or that one candle may be put into two candlesticks and giue light vnto two seueral houses far distant asunder at one the same instant If the one be impossible so is the other Yet stand these men Bishops or Ouerseers not only to manie Churches each one of them But their Primate giueth or rather selleth liceÌ„ces to other inferior Priestes some one of them to stand a Minister to two yea peraduenture to three seueral flockes This is an vsual matter and passeth by way of staâ—ute lawe amongst the Chapleins Doctors of the Church of England who may haue be Non Resident some of them from two some from three Congregations or benefices especially all his Graceless Chaplaines by a singular prerogatiue But to retourne againe to our purpose these Arch and Lord Bishops cannot be said to haue this office of gouerning Elders for that they professe to be Ministers of the worde Sacramentes which duetie belongeth to the Pastors office And because they exercise absolute power ouer Pastors Churches and causes to depose excommunicate absolue and determine in their owne sole name power which no true Elder Minister or meÌ„ber of Christ may do Reasons also might be drawen from their sitting chandging aspiring to the richer higher roomes FroÌ„ their Princely Lordly flate pompe trayne reuenues pallaces wherin they liue in all wordly excesse pleasure idlenes to which thinges whilest they attend it is impossible they should faithfully execute dischardge any ministrie in the Church From y e apparaÌ„t odious sinnes of their persons liues that appeare and breake out in their conversatioÌ„ which is most vnchristian fleshly and vnholy As coueteousnes oppressioÌ„ extortion open wrong doing vâ—uâ—ie ambition pride idlenes louers of pleasure such as cannot gouerne their wiues children and families in the feare of God sobrietie or common honestie but nourish and bring them vp in pride vanitie idlenes superfluitie voluptuousnes gaining chambering and wâ—ntonnes yea peradueÌ„ture vnchastiâ—g and that not vnknowen to the inselues who also themselues are not all of them of the most chaste and temperate life some of them being giuen to wyne strikers â—orcerers blasphemers skorners and deriders of the most holie exercise of the preaching of Gods worde causing their counterfeight and natural fooles openly in their owne house at 〈…〉 feastes to make a â—ermon o◠〈◊〉 or fallie in the most high despight of God and of his blessed ordinance Not here to perticulate the sondrie heresies contrarie to the truth and blasphemies of the truth holdeÌ„ amoÌ„gst them the least of which faultes publickly knoweÌ„ are enough to diâ—able the best of them from exercising any publicke ministrie to the Lorde in his Church if we may belieue the Apostle To conclude this one reason if there were no more might shew and proue them to be no christian Bishopps in that they exercise some ciuile office or offices together with this their pretended ministrie Which is not only expresly forbidden vtterly vnlawful by the worde of God but also impossible for any man to performe both or either of both faithfully whilest he keepeth both God himself hath made two distinct and seueral offices and appoincted vnto them two distinct seueral persons for Ministers It being no more lawfull for a Bishop to execute the ciuile Magistrates office then for the ciuile Magistrate to administer the Sacraments What moÌ„struous parsons then are they which thus confounde commingle in their owne persons these two diuers and distinct offices and powers Might not they that assume both the swordes into their handes carry them acrosse also in their cote armour aswel as their holie Father the POPE What a monstrous confusion and perturbation make they both in Church and common wealth herebie disturbing the holie order that God himself hath set for the gouernement both of the Church and common wealth in this worlde remouing yea vtterly breaking downe therbie all the limites and bowndes which God hath set and established for all estates degrees offices callinges actions so that no man by this meanes either knoweth his duetie or orderly walketh within the bowndes of his calling wherbie it is come to passe that the whole land ouer-floweth with all impietie violence cruelitie and iniquitie as in the dayes of NOE Thus by al these reasons haue we proued and al that haue not vtterly made shipwrack of faith good coÌ„science or that stand not vowed bond seruantes to their apostaticall throne must confesse That these Arch Lord Bishops are no true christian Bishops according to the Gospel of CHRIST neither haue or exercise any lawful office or ministri of or in the Church of CHRIST If then they be not members of that body beloÌ„ging to that heade CHRIST IESVS it must needes followe that they their offices ministrie are false antichristiaÌ„ belonging to an other head an other bodie eueÌ„ Antichrist and that whoore the false Church his spouse If their inordinate power and irregular ministrie be found contrarie to al the rules and ordinances of Christes Testament then can yt not be of God belong vnto or vsed in Christes Church or be blessed to the gouernement or saluation of his people Then must it needes be the power and throne of Sathan giuen to the Beast accursed giuen to seduce and to drawe all the children of wrath to distruction Neither shal Mr. Giffard or all the false Prophets belonging to their throne be able to tourne away or withstand those iudgments and plagues which are powred out of the Lordes viall vpon the throne of the Beaste or with their soft tongues to licke whole the woundes of the Beaste that are giuen with that two edged sword that procedeth out of CHRISTES mouth It shal not help them though they raile and blaspheme and gnawe their tongues for grief For their kingdom shal wax darke and Antichrist shal coÌ„sume be abolished as he is reueiled eueÌ„ by y e same light the Lord himself hath spoken yt How weake nowe sclender are Mr. Giffards defences for these his Lordes the Bishops That the Bishops haue not their caling consecration or power from the Pope but from their Church That they haue by oath renownced the Popes vsurped power and tyrannie That they do not maintaine or defend the religion and lawes of Antichrist but professe and aduance the gospel of Christ and by the liuely word cut downe all idolaitre heresies abhominations That they vsurpe not a Lordship ouer the faith and consciences of men but their peculiar power is onlie in the administration of external discipline Therfore we vvith manifest and vvicked sclander call the Bishops Antichristian If you demande the proofe of al this wee refer you to Mr. Giffards bare affirmation without anie one reason in his learned answeare to the Brownistes Page 75. If he were himself
established church vizt such as are in captiuitie sicknes age or in such times place as they knowe not where to finde one day of the Sonne of man He might aswell conclude that because God is able doth saue some in the false Church Therfore priuate meÌ„ ought not to forsake the false Church God is able to saue some in dispertion out of the established Church Therfore priuate men ought not to seek the established Church THe last greatest matter is that we runne before the Princes commandement whose dutie it is to reforme Churches Priuate men might not so much as sweepe them much-lesse build them For this is to erect a state gouernmeÌ„t because the power of the Church is both publicke greate We haue aboue shewed that y e Church hath Gods coÌ„mandement authoritie alwaies to erect Christes ministri gouernment amongst them That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of priuate men neither are there anie true Ministers anie where to be found vpon the earth neither any extraordinarie Ministers to be looked for seing they are long since ceased Therfore the Church in this estate consisting only of priuate men ought to erect this ministerie and gouernment ells should they also cease and neuer be had againe vpon the earth and so should there neuer be any established Church ministrie Sacramentes c agayne in this world yet here must be noted by the way that Mr. G. runneth too much vpoÌ„ and wresteth too far these wordes priuate men when we speake of the Church consisting only of priuate men Now vnto his crimination the Church hauing this coÌ„mandement aucthoritie giuen of God vnto the worldes end we before shewed him that no Prince might take it away or without great wronge hinder them from the performance hereof yea that the seruantes of God ought not to be staied from doing the coÌ„mandements of God vpon anie restrainte or persecution of any mortall man whosoeuer For this we alleadged the examples and practize of the Apostles who then had bene guiltie of the same disobedience rebellion if Princes in this busines had bene to be stayed for or their restrainte had bene a sufficent let yea that persecution and the crosse of Christ were vtterly abolished if the Church and faithfull were not to proceede in their dueties vntill Princes giue leaue We shewed also that the obedience and practize of Gods will was no disobedience or preiâ—dize to the Prince That we attempted nothing beyonde our calling neither transgressed in our calling We medled not with the reformation of anie publick abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church otherwise then by prayers vnto God and godly exhortation We only according vnto Gods commandement refrained from their idolatrie and other publicke euils and assembled together in all holy and peaceable maner to worship the Lord our God and to ioyne our selues together in the faith vnto mutual duties This we shewed to be the duetie of euerie priuate man that would be saued to leaue the false Church and to seeke the true Church And being thus assembled ioyned in the faith we shewed it to be their dutie together to seeke that ministrie and gouernment which Christ hath left vnto his Church and for the Church to erect the same VNto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answere One in respect of the persons of the Apostles that they were furnished with a special coÌ„mission and authoritie from CHRIST himself to set vp his kingdome which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successiuely receiued deliuered ouer to others so that priuate men may not haue this power The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles tyme which were all heathen and therfore it had bene bootlesse to sue to them But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamentall poynctes of the christian faith though otherwise this christian Prince doe erre in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline euerie godly priuate man is to keepe a good conscience not breaking the vnitie and peace of the Church But not to take publicke authoritie to reforme THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are litle to the purpose so doe they him as litle good If the commandement of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to doe their worke though al the Princes of the world resisted then must the commandement of the same God be of the same effect to all other instrumentes whom it pleaseth the Lorde to vse in their callings to his seruice also though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same For neither dignitie of the persons that are vsed make the commandement of God of more authoritie or necessitie to be donne neither yet the greatnes or the goodnes of the persons that withstand this commandement of God make yt of lesse authoritie or necessitie Onlie let the seruantes of God be sure to haue the commaundement and calling of their God for that they doe and then they neede not feare the Powers that are placed of of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good Our question then is not whether priuate men may doe that which is not their dutie to which they haue no commanndement as this accuser surmizeth to bring vs into danger and hatred But whether they may not doe that which God commanndeth them within the limites of their caling As to forâ—ake idolatrie and the false Church to seke the true worship of God in the true Church though all the Princes of the world whether belieuers or infidels should forbid the same And this we affirme to be the duetie of euerie perticular person whosoeuer forbid We say not now that priuate men may reforme the false Church abolish publick idolatrie or depose a false ministrie that the Kinge setteth vpp This were to breake the boundess of their calling to intrude vpon the Princes office and great cause had they then to feare for he beareth not the sworde in vayne Againe our question is not whether it is the office and dutie of Princes to see abuses reformed both in the Church and common Wealth which we thinck no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to denie except the Anabaptistes But vvhether the Church ought not now amongst themselues freely to practize CHRISTS Testament either in erecting his officers and ordinances or in reforming or correcting anie fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them vvithout staying for the Princes licence yea though the Prince should vpon the paynes of death forbid This we affirme to be the dutie of euerie perticular Congregation CHRIST hauing therfore giuen vnto each and all of them his sacred power and aucthoritie to binde and to loose in earth and to doe all thinges whatsoeuer he hath commaunded them vvith promise to be with them vnto the end of the world He hath giuen them the
two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience To cast sinne into the Epha and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie with the vvinges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their vvinges and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them euerie where vvarning instructing and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake to take vp and beare his crosse daylie c Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes or ells he wil come against them speedily and remoue their candlestick To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth Commending those Churches that kept that they had the worde of his patience in persecution promising them the Crowne of life if they remaine faithfull vnto the death to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God c. M r. Giffard he is contented that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions Or the whole Church whilest yt wittinglie doth or suffreth these thinges to be donne can keepe we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of M r. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited is so euident to all men as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same and to cast out in his name and power all that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance Howe can M r. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors publick transgression or in this estate promise them peace The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet Neither hath God promised anie peace to thē that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression vntil they repent Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe Wee would knowe of him therfore whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth and iustifieth or at the least tollerateth what open errors publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth will excuse him or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man that hath at the Princes commandment committed much more contynued to committ anie transgression without vnfaigned repentance But if the least error be contrarie to true faith the least transgression sinne and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde And now to the poynct we would know of him whether anie Prince much-lesse a christian Prince may abrogate the commandement of God or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end If not but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate that vnder a heathen why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde whether in correcting and redressing faultes or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body Wee may then much better conclude that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel because he is a member of CHRIST of the Church then vnder an infidel Prince that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church ANother reason he bringeth whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence or vntill hee will because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of before we proceede Wee meane then by reformation to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe he is to ouersee and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office
he but bewraieth his owne shame hipocrisie in condempning blaspheming vs for doing the will of God in aluring others to false worship idolatrie and in doing that himself for filthie lucre feare of the world which he for shame of the world dare not alow neither can iustifie Yea whatsoeuer he colourably pretendeth aledgeth in his second Booke to couer excuse the shame infamie of his former yet is he become an earnest pleader for all the corruptions and abuses of his Church not granting vnto vs anie one of the abuses we reproue to be vnlawfull vngodly lest we should thervpon vrge him to haue y e same left refreined though not publiquely put downe reformed as he accuseth by the faithfull and so they should be condempned for the practise and we iustified for the refreining these things Therfore he is driuen to plead for mitigat excuse to tollerate with his vttermost shiftes cauills all these abhominatioÌ„s whatsoeuer Which yet are so heinous and of so high a nature as no pretexts of the Princes or churches power of ceremonies of things indifferent no distinctions of substance forme of fundamental and not fundamental errors corruptions c can hide but the are found heinous transgressions of the law of God detestable abuses of the worship of God And he in practising and pleading for them is found but as the Dogge retoâ—ned to his owne vomit as y e false Prophet that teacheth y e Prince to set a scandall before the people and that seducâ—th the people to eate their Idolothites Yea he is yet furder driuen openly to iustifie the ministrie and regiment of these Arch Lord Bishops and their hierarchie to be of Christ against which he erewhile also amongest the rest of that faction was an earnest â—utor to the ParliameÌ„t to haue them vtterly remoued out of the Church and abolished their Offices Ministrie Courtes Gouernment which could not be done without most heinous impietie open barbaritie violence to the Church and vnto Christ himself if they had bene of Christ as he now pretendeth Againe if they were not of Christ but of Antichrist as they all of that sect then vpon certeine knowledge and assurance affirmed how and with what conscience could the Reformists themselues submit vnto their decrees power gouernment receiue their ministrie of them exercise their ministrie vnder them sweare performe their canonical obedience vnto them Let M. Giff. with all his coÌ„ning reconcile this in truth good conscience howsoeuer he hath reconciled himself to that apostatical throne from which he was reuolted And in testimonie of his vnfeined fidelitie and in hope of some promotion hath written these blasphemous bookes in â—his gracious Lords defence against the Brownists yea and rebuked in the Epistle to his second Booke al such as speake against the Bishopps c. which yet shall neuer be able to hide or excuse his open coÌ„trarietie perfidie apostasie yea that which yet is more fearefull his open restreint blasphemie and despight of that truth which he sometimes gladly acknowledged professed Vnto all which he is driuen by opposing himself against these Browâ—ists in the defence of their worship Leitourgie ministrie which al should fal to be the ground with their Lords the Bishops throne For if they fall out to be antichristian no true ministers according to the rules of Christs Testament theÌ„ must that ministrie which is made by them standeth subiect vnto them c needâ— be antichristiaÌ„ also Then haue they their ministrie not to intermedle with the gouernment administratioÌ„ of Christs church much lesse to make them lawes a Leitourgie worship Neither staieth M. Giff. himself here in the defence of this present worship Leitourgie Hierarchie Courtes their procedings ministrie and their administration but yet is dryuen for the defence of all these to iustifie the Church of Rome euen in their greatest deepest apostaâ—ie to be the true visible established Church of Christ to haue the true seale of the Couenant c. And in deed this it standeth him vpon to proue seing their whole ministrie were immediatly deriued receiued from their mother of Rome as also their whole gouernment Courtes c and no smal parte of their worship ministration togither with the whole people Parishes Synagogs as they now stand He wanteth not learned proues to bring this abought As that the Apostasie should arise and Antichrist sit in the Church of God Yea he proueth both the Church of Rome of England at once by the schisme of Israell the apostasie of Iuda c which yet in those estates were pronounced Churches by the Prophetts He proueth them within the Couenant by the second Commandement where the promise is made to the thousand generation As also by the greatest corruptions and faltes that he can anie where reade of the primatiue Churches These miserable reasons examples are the maine pillers ground-worckes of al their buildings and his writings which being pulled downe their whole frame falleth to the ground at once and is irreparable For this I refer the Reader to their due place in the second Transgression where they are largely refuted answered An other pitifull reason he bringeâ—h in his Proeme to the Reader of an humane bodie coÌ„sisting of maimed or deformed members Which yet so long as life remaineth in it is said an humane bodie So the Church though it coÌ„sist of mained deformed members yet whilest it hath the life viz. true faith in CHRIST in it yt is to be held a true Church I will not here stand to shew how vntowardly he hath draweÌ„ this comparison beyond the Apostles scope proportion Rom. 12. Nor yet how manie errors inconveniences would insue of such racking of Allegories Only to his reason we answere that if in his first Proposition he meane by deformed members such as haue not their right true shape y t God hath appoincted to humane members but a strange diuerse forme as the feet of a Beare the mouth teeth of a Lion though it haue the face of a man the haire oâ— a woman c then hold we it not a naturall but a monstrous bodie So we say that to the heauenly body of Christ may no monstrous deformed strange members be ioyned but only such members vnto the publique ministrie as are described Rom. 12. Neither may that heauenly edifice be built of any other the lyuing holy precious stones 1 Pet. 2. or be built in anie other forme then that Christ hath prescribed and the maister builders left vnto vs in his Testament 1 Cor. 3. They that misbuild the Temple of God destroy yt And they that destroy the Temple of God them shall God destroy Now then to his inference of instance We denie this body of their Church to consist of these true members spoken of Rom. 12. Neither of those liuing precious stones
â—eare and together with him grow liue reigne stand and fall as the braÌ„ches with the tree Now wee knowing the plant cannot easilye be deceiued in the grafts especiallie knowing them from their cradles nourished with the milke of superstition instructed in the schole of heathen vanitie brought vp in the Colledges of more then monkish idlenes and disorder exercised in vaine and curious artes whose diuinitie is by tradition and according to their progresse degrees therin commeÌ„ded to the Ordinarie who making probation of them accordingly doth either initiate or trayne them in this idolatrons office or els giue them their full orders with his paper licence popish seale therat Thus are they either presented to a Benifice instituted inducted where they ringe their bells pay the first fruictes taxes proxes and are sworne to their canonicall obedience to his Scenes Courtes Synods c Or els as they terme them they are become Preachers either waged Chaplens mercenarie Curats or hireling teachers gaping for promotion Which being obteined they change remoue eâ—terchange according to their best aduantage In this maner being entred by intrusion they cannot but lyue by theft spoile and rapine as their popish tithes the goods of the poore and offrings of the prophane indifferently and gouerne by tyrannie and perfidie Tyrannie in exeâ—uting the popish Iniunctions euen the statutes of Omry Perfidie in betraijng all into the hands of their Lords the Bishops Thus fulfil they scriptures by which who so examineth their infinite transgressions in perticular can want no store of Argumentâ— against this Ministrie our purpose being here rather to shew some theÌ„ to set downe all or to confute anie of their odious enormities Which are so grosse that as sone as they are but manifested by the light they are reproued And it could not be if the Lord had not layd a vaile ouer their hearts that where the scriptures are read these deformities could be hid tollerated or defended But in stead of an Argument to vs you turne your speach to the simple people and giue them counsell if they doubt of your Ministerie to supend their iudgments and to inquire if ther be anie Churches of God vnder heauen and what they do iudge of the Ministerie and Church of England c. Is this the best counsell you can giue them vse you thus to appeaze vnquiet coÌ„sciences and to resolue their doubtes With what conscience can they which remaine doubtfull of the truth and lawfulnes of your ministerie frequent your prayers and preaching in the meane time vntil they may send ouer sea and be resolued from thence You know that what is not of faith is sinne But with what conscience can you vse poore soules thus that inquire the truth at your mouth to send them ouer sea you wot not whether to be resolued of your Ministerie Churches Is your Church built vpon the words of men or vpon the worde of God Is this to proue your Church Ministerie by the word of God Or to vse the old worne Arguments of your mother Church of Rome who was wont to defend her self by vniuersalitie consent What if all the Churches learned meÌ„ in the world should say you are a Church which wee must tel you by the way they all neuer did neither caanie which knoweth the word of God and your estate aright but if they should could they or all the world iustifie that God condempneth Should not a people inquire at their God from the liuing to the dead Remember yee not that it is written To the lawâ— the testimonies if they speake not it is because there is no light in them But yee are gone out of the way yee haue caused manie to fall by the Lawe yee haue broken the Couenant of Leâ—ie saith the Lord of hostes therfore haue I made you also to be despised and vile before all the people because you kept not my Wayes but haue bene partiall in the Lawe Yea the iudgments of God are alredie fallen vpon you you all as he speaketh by his Propheâ— being couered with a spirit of slumber euen strickeÌ„ with the blindnes of Elimas groping the way in the noone light because you haue peruerted the straight waies of the Lord and being thus miserable and blinde out of the way not only perceiue it not but loue darknes more then light refusing the light when yt is brought you yea despising yt because of the fewenes and basenes of them that bring yt you And in this Pharisaicall pride procede after your accustomed maner of blaspheming terming vs fewe vncharitable Anabaptists Donatists c. Thus fulfill you the measure of your forefathers thus dealt they with all Gods faithfull seruants that were sent vnto them yea euen with CHRIST himself refusing him for his simplicitie reputing him emong thieues deceiuers c We looke for no better vsage at your hands the seruant is neither greater nor better then his Maister if they haue done thus to the greene tree what shall not you doo to the drie Yet so far are we from all danger or harme by theis curses that God turneth them forthwith vnto vs as a blessing and to a comfortable assurance both of the fellowship of the faith and of the suffrings of CHRIST Blessed are you when men reuile you and say all maner of euil against you for my names sake c. Againe through the mercies of our God all the iniâ—ries you can offer vnto vs cannot ouercome our charitie or breake our patience In the one we possesse our soules in the other we will not cease to praie for you euen as for our selues and be redie to doo you anie good we can Now to those poore soules whome you like miserable phisitians thus cure we giue this aduise yet not we but the Load That they beware of Wolues in sheepes clothing That thei â—ollow not blind guides too far That thei marke diligentlie and auoide such as transgresse and abide not in the doctrine of CHRIST not walke after the rule of the Gospel That thei turne away from such as make a shew of godlines but denie the power and practize therof deceiuing with faire wordes the hearts of the simple talking of CHRIST but denijng him in deedes Further we send them not to mans worde nor ouer sea but to Gods worde which is neere them euen in their mouthes and in their hearts Let them therby trie the spirits before thei belieue them Let them therby measure their Temple their Altar and their Worshippers and especiallie their owne hearts that thei may be wise to that which is good and simple concerning euil If the latter part of your answere had bene put in the beginning to haue 〈◊〉 downe what maketh a true Minister of Christ you approued your Ministrie accordinglie we had suffered lesse iniurie and you lesse blame NotwithstaÌ„ding because it is neuer to late to repeÌ„t if this your offer be according to your heart we most
administration of prohibition from the Sacraments The vanitie and follie of this idole suspension most plainely appeareth vnto al men by the litle good it doth in anie of these Parrishes where al prophanenes and iniquitie stil aboundeth The Bishop his Chauncelor or Commissary may with one worde of their mouth heale the greatest wounde the Parrish-Priest can make with this Suspension whatsoeuer Mr. Parson saye They haue power to absolue anie that he bindeth and how cheape their absolutions are is not vnknowē to anie whore master in al the Parrish The Bishop hath power to make and to depose Ministers at his pleasure he hath power ouer the whole ministration he prescribeth howe whē to whom they shal administer What truth then is in these wordes that the Bishop cannot take away that power which their seruice-booke giueth them when he may absolue the partie disanul the suspension depose the Minister c. In that he saith the Bishop is but a Minister and no Lord ouer their faith and conscience The same will euerie Popish Priest say of their soveraigne Lorde the POPE to preserue the dignitie of their ministerie The POPE writeth himself but the seruant of the seruants of God What Lordlie authoritie the Bishop hath exerciseth and in what seruile subiection the Priestes all the Parishes stand vnto their Courtes iurisdiction shal hereafter more appeare when we come to the discussing of those poyntes In the meane while we willingly assent vnto Mr. GIFFARD that the christian reader shall iudge whether their seruice-booke be not a fit Portesse for such Priestes and this suspension a fit toole for such worckmen Still affirming euen with wonder that if the iudgmentes of God were not vpon their right eye and vpon their right arme they might perceaue how their Lordes the Bishops dresse them and how this weapon they allowe them wanteth both edge and poynte c. Thus hauing finished his answeare to our assumption he procedeth to a former answeare where he denied the Consequence That where wicked prophane men are receiued into reteyned in the bozome of the Church there the couenant is disanulled with them and they are no longer Godes people but a false antichristian Sinagogue To disproue this he alleadged that there were but fewe true worshippers that frequented the Temple amongst multitudes of prophane vngodly men To this he now addeth the examples of the Church at Corinth and of the seuen Churches in Asia c. We before answeared stil answeare that there is no comparison betwixt or Argument to be drawen from those Churches which were rightly gathered established and these confused Bibilonish Synagogues of theirs The Israelites were a peculiar separated people vnto the Lorde from the worlde The people of these other Churches were wonne caled and gathered vnto CHRIST by the preaching of the Gospel euery one entred into the Church by the voluntarie professiō of his owne faith No vncircumcised or Gentile might enter into the Temple to offer any gift there All nor yet the greater part of the Citie of Corinth nor of these other parts of Asia were not receiued into the Church as members But here in their Church of England al the whole land is receiued in and that immediatly from open idolatrie without any voluntarie professiō of their owne faith by the people in perticular yea without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them vnto the faith Therfore in these reasons he but beggeth the questiō and assumeth that which he ought to proue Namely That these multitudes of all the prophane al sorts of wicked persons were sometymes rightly gathered vnto and entred couenant with the Lorde hauing the true ministrie gouernement of CHRIST set ouer them and nowe being fallen into some sinnes are not cast out but stil retayned in their Church This if he had donne then had there bene some cause y ◠he might haue brought against vs th'examples of these Churches Then should not we haue needed to haue shewed him his follie twise Yet this if he had donne the contrarie wherof is manifest to al that remember the beginning of her Maiesties raigne or but behold the present estate in the same or rather in more confusion sinne being more encreased Yet then we should easily haue put difference betwixt those Churhes that amēded at the Apostles admonition and these which reiect all the rules ordinances ecclesiastical of CHRISTS Testament as pernitious and intollerable to th'estate of this land and persecute al such as admonish them of and will not partake with them in their idolatrie sacriledge WE also in our former writing shewed him how the faithfull seruants of God in the idolatrous dayes of Kinge ACHAS MENASSE AMON IEHOIAKIM c refrayned from the Temple being so polluted and defiled and mixed not themselues with the wicked in idolatrous worship This Mr. GIFFARD confesseth to be true and that it was theire duetie so to doe But he saith we do not argue whether the godly did ioyne with the wicked in idolatrie but whether the wicked were suffred and did ioyne with the godlie in true worship To the question we haue aboue spoken Only this by the waye we drawe from his owne confession That if the godly in those dayes did wel in separating from not cōmunicating with the wicked in those times of publick idolatrie then cānot we be blamed which separate withdrawe our selues from these prophane assemblies where such abhominable idolatrie and sacriledge is publickly vsed and enforced as we haue aboue proued and thus are we by him cleared and iustified Againe we convince him of his owne mouth thus If the faithfull did well in those tymes to withdraw and separate themselues from the wicked in their idolatrie which then was publickly set vp Then was not the publick estate of the Iewes in those tymes of vs to be held the true Church of God For the godly maie at no tyme separate from the true Church of God nor repayre vnto the false Church And thus by himself is an end put at once to all his cauils wherbie he hath endeuored to prooue the Iewes in these most corrupt tymes to be the true outwarde church of God and to accuse vs of heresie that affirme where such heynous transgressions are obstinatly defended persisted in by the whole Church there the Couenant vnto the iudgmēt of the faithful is disanulled there the faithful may not communicate And verie ignorant is Mr. Giffard if he thinck that the wicked and prophane may either be receiued into the Church or retayned in the Church as members The wicked prophane which were neuer entred into the Church may ought to be caled to heare the ministrie of the worde of God in the Church as the meanes wherbie they may be caled vnto the faith and so vpon their profession be receiued as members into the fellowship cōmunion of the Church But vntil they make open voluntarie
profession of their owne faith obedience they cannot be receiued as members or haue communion with the Church Then vntil Mr. Giffard proue that the prophane multitudes and open wicked which neuer made anie voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience may be receiued as members into the Church he cannot iustifie these Parish assemblies of England or convince vs. Furder we graunt that wicked men such as fal away from their profession and obedience shal daylie arise in the church ells there should be no cause of Excommunication But when their sinne is publicke then ought the Church to ceÌ„sure it and if they be founde obstinate to caste them out ells were there no vse of ExcoÌ„munication We graunt also that the Church sometymes of negligence delaying in due tyme to caste out such wicked is notwithstanding if they amend vpon admonition to be held the true Church of God And this our aduersarye himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confesse although now forgetting himself his heart being fraught with malice he bursteth foorth in the gall therof accusing and sclandering vs to hold these heresies That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church there the Couenant is disanulled with the whole Church Againe that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the Gospell they be not only vtterly voyde of fayth which offende but also all they that worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are fallen from the Couenant Thirdlie that we make the stablenes of Gods Couenant to depend vpon the worckes of men and not of the free grace and mercie of God How could this accuser drawe these heresies from this assertion It is the Church of CHRIST vvhich hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same Doth not the expresse contrarie herein appeare How can he then reconcile these chardges of his vnto this proposition of ours Or can he produce any one sentence that euer we wrote or spake conteyning such odious doctrines as these Yf not these heresies must stil retourne to his owne throate as to the sepulchre froÌ„ whence the sprange these chardges must remayne vpon his reckoning not vpon ours WE hold that the open prophane and wicked such as were neuer caled vnto the faith caÌ„not be receiued into the Church as members before they make open and voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darcknes hath alwaies made difference and separation betwixt the world the Church caling the one the Sonnes of God the other the daughters of men preseruing the one in his Arcke drowning the other in the floode he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church to whom no prophane which made not professioÌ„ of the same faith might be admitted or ioyned in their worship The worde Ecclesia or Church we knowe to be a companie caled forth from the world as were CHRISTS Disciples and the faithfull in all places at the first gathering of the Church Againe we hold that such as are dulie entred into the Church falling from their profession and after due admonition remaine obstinate and hardened in their sinne ought by the Church to be excommunicate And if the Church being admonished stirred vp vnto their duetie refuse to obey execute the commandemeÌ„t of God that then vnto the faithfull it ceaseth to be the true Church of God and ought to be auoyded vntil they repent The Church of CHRIST must euer be obedient vnto CHRISTS voyce which voyce when they openlie despise wilfully resist they are a companie of rebells not a companie of Sainctes When they fal away from the faith they fal away from the Couenant of God when they obstinaâ—lie persist in sinne wilfully despise Gods voyce they fal away from the faith Faith belieueth reuerenceth and obeyeth Gods worde so far as yt is reueled vnto them and neuer wilfully despiseth or reiecteth anie anie part of the same God can neuer be seuered from his worde they that despise reiect Gods worde despise reiect God himself Christ ruleth and reigneth by the scepter of his owne worde they that are not subiect vnto but wilfully disobey that word are not subiect vnto Christ haue not him a Kinge but a Iudge ouer them Seuere lawes iudgments are set downe in God his worde against presumptuous sinne yea against al sinne wherof they denie to repent God hath executed these iudgments vpon the Angels that sinned vpon the original world vpon the Nation of the Iewes Neither wil anie vayne titles of Church Couenant c. excuse or deliuer them being founde in the like transgressions from the like iudgments God is iust his iudgments are alike pronounced executed against al as against one being founde wilfully remayning in the transgression of his lawe Nowe then vvhilest vve conclude that vvhere the people were neuer rightly caled vnto the faith or gathered vnto CHRIST and orderly ioyned together in Christ But multitudes of prophane al sortes of vvicked persons idolators Atheists c euen the whole land without any choice any separation receiued into their Church as members without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST With what conscience or truth can this vngodly man herevpoÌ„ defame divulge vs to hold this heresie that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the gospell they be not only voyde of fayth which offend but all they also which worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are falen from the Couenant How can he liken these rowtes of prophane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful seruantes of CHRIST in his Church or compare their open wickednes which they commit even with greedines to the faultes eskapes of frailety or negligeÌ„ce in y e Sainctes Againe whilest we affirme That where open obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne whether yt be in the whole Congregation or in any perticular member there that Congregation or that member cannot by vs be iudged faithfull or within the outward Couenant vntill they repent with what feare of God or shame of men caÌ„ this maÌ„ publish vs to hold that where any open grosse sinne is committed by anie and they stil through ignorance or negligence are suffred in the Church there the Couenant to be disanulled with the whole Church And so we to fall into this heresie To make the stablenes of God his Couenant not to depend vpon mercie and free grace promised and bownde with an oathe but vpon our worckes yea vpon the worckes of other whom we must iudge THis heresie after he himself hath deuised in our name he procedeth to coÌ„fute yt with manie wordes shewing the stability
Gospellers Pistelers Singing men Singing boyes Vergiers Sextines The seruile Ministrie is diuided into these seueral offices Of Parson Vicarâ— Curaiâ— Deacon or half-Priest Church-warden Sideemen Quest-men Parrish Clarck But now to distinguish or describe all these offices according to their seueral orders and cannons to shewe their original processe and contynuance in their seueral tymes occasions and circumstances were not onlie a labor to me intricate and vnachiueable but to the reader tedious and vnprofitable as withdrawing them from the certaine and vnvariable rules of Gods worde to the vncertaine and variable reportes of meÌ„ Sufficeth it therfore that we finde not in al the booke of God anie such titles names dignities offices giuen or to be giuen to the Ministrie of Christes Gospel but we finde them rather those names of blasphemie written vpon those heades of the Beast For if it be blasphemy for anie mortal maÌ„ to receiue assume or chaleÌ„ge those names titles dignities or offices which are peculier and proper to CHRISTES sacred person alone Then are these chief Ministers of the Church of England these Arch-Bishops Lord Bishops highlie guilty of blasphemie that chaleÌ„dge assume vnto themselues some one of them to be the Primaâ—e of al the Bishops in England Ireland an other to be an Arch-Bishop a Metropolitane others to be Lord Bishops the leaste of these Anakims to reigne ouer I knowe not how manie hundreth Churches Bishops That Christ is the onlie Primate and Arch-chiefe Bishop and Prince of Pastors the Apostle Peter giueth euideÌ„t testimonie 1 Epist. 5. Cap. 4. versâ— as also the holie Ghost Hebr. 13. 20. That Christ is the onlie Lorde Bishop euery where appeareth in the scriptures and that al other christian Bishops are but seruaÌ„ts fellowes is fownd Iohn 13. Luk. 22. Mat. 20. Mar. 10. where Christ himself in expresse words with vehement chardges forbiddeth euen his Apostles I say not such blasphemous titles onlie but all other wordlie titles of honor all ciuile iurisdiction and secular power ouer others and such arrogancie and presumption one ouer an other as these pontificall Prelates and Lordlie Bishops vsurpe most directly wittingly willingly against the commandmeÌ„t of Christ. Which they thincke to put away abrogate by a second lawe of the Prince ParlameÌ„t who they saye haue cast these honors titles vpon them and therfore neither caÌ„ they refuse neither may others blame them for this except they shew theÌ„selues disobedieÌ„t to her Ma tie and enemies to y e State We wil answeare these their criminatioÌ„s of state matters at anie tyme before competeÌ„t iudges In the meane while let them answere vs in good conscience whether they iudge it lawful for Princes to giue or at anie hand for themselues to receiue such titles dignities c as Christ hath so expresly often forbidden them And whether their holy Father the Pope might not so iustifie his exaâ—tation and supremacie by the Emperors donatioÌ„ y e confirmatioÌ„ of manie NatioÌ„s States Councels through manie ages If it be here alleadged that these titles which we so stand vpoÌ„ are but ciuile accomplemeÌ„ts giueÌ„ them by the Prince but trifles no matters of substance to preiudice their ministrie they being preachers of the worde Yet must they acknowledge them inhibited verie seuerely ofteÌ„ by Christes owne mouth And therfore they by this allegation laye the blame vpon Christ that forbad them and not vpon vs that hold theÌ„ vnlawful intollerable in the ministrie Furder if they be merely Civile let them theÌ„ answere whie they are how they may be thus ioyned to ecclesiastical persons offices And if they be such trifles whie then these graue Fathers these holy men so violently contend with and bloodely persecute their bretheren for them And this also let them consider acknowledge that these triffles or titles they vsurpe are prooued most execrable blasphemies names vvritten vpon the heades of the Beast and not vpon the members or Minister of Christ. And in their best allegatioÌ„ that they are directly contrarie to the commaundement of Christ who prohibiteth his Ministers all such titles howsoeuer Mr. Giffard alleadge against al coÌ„science and truth that they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and consciences of men the vntruth wherof shal hereafter appeare yet this Lordship they receiue exercise euen in the best consideration is expresly coÌ„trarie to the commandement of Christ and such as no true Minister of the Gospel either wil or may receiue plead for or iustifie ANd now that we may come a litle nearer their Ministrie it would be knowen what office these Lordlie Prelates these Primates Metropalitanes Arch Lord Bishops exercise in the Church of Christ. For euerie Minister must be of necessitie in som perticular office I speake not nowe of the offices they beare in the commoÌ„wealth as to be Peres of the Realme Lordes of the Parlament Iudges of ciuile causes in Courtes Iustices of the peace c but of their ecclesiastical offices as being Bishops whither they haue anie of the ordâ—narie and permanent offices as Pastors Teachers Elders Or of those extraordinarie temporarie offices which are nowe ceased of Apostles Prophets Euangelisâ—es And sure by their magnificent stile glorious titles extraordinarie power irregular aucthoritie and inordinate rule I should rather iudge theÌ„ of these extraordinarie offices saue that I finde those wholie nowe ceased not expedient or to be loked for and also that th'estate behauioure and doings of those Bishops accorde not to those offices First Apostles these Bishops are not in that they haue no immediate caling from God or confirmed by God vnto that office Neither doe they execute yt as Christs Apostles did they goe not from place to place from countrie to countrie to preach the Gospel to call the people to the faith to gather plant Churches Neither haue they receiued such measure of grace or can ratifie and approue by such euideÌ„t testimonie power and wonders the doctrines rules and ordinances which they deliuer vnto and impose vpon their Churches to be of God Yet seing they lay a newe and an other foundation then the Apostles haue laide deliuer other doctrines rules and ordinances as appeareth by the whole ministrie worship ministration ordinances and gouernement of their Church then the Apostles haue taught and left seing also they vsurpe a greater power and preeminence one ouer an other One being a Primate an other an Arch-Bishope c then the Apostles did Wee neuer reading of anie Primate Arch or Lord Apostle Peters chayre now not standing in EnglaÌ„d They had neede to confirme their offices calings doings power by no lesâ—e miracles testimonies theÌ„ the Apostles did if they wil haue their ministrie doings allowed receiued which if they should doe and draw fire from heaueÌ„ yet ought we to belieue hold fast that perfect â—oundation which CHRISTES Apostles haue layde that authenticke alsufficient worde which
sometime of an other minde you must thincke it was before he had so neere friendship with or was imployed in such trustie seruices by his Lord of Londō Who as also his Lords grace must not be driuen to proue euerie thing they affirme that were enough to put young diuines vnto their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England Yet I would of their curtesie they would giue vs their Schismatiks that cannot be so satisfied leaue to doubt though we wil not contēd whether their Caling Consecration and this their Power first came not from the Pope For albeit we haue heard that the offices of Prouincial Bishops Arch Bishops Metropolitanes where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to breake out and appeare longe before the Pope obtayned his Supremacie ouer al other Churches and Ministers Yet might it be that this maner of their caling solemne consecration and lardge irregular power of his Lords Grace Lord Bishops sprong from their vnholie Father the Pope Who when he was inthronized by Sathan had receiued the Dragons high commission to be his Vicare general in earth could not of his fatherhoode but prouide for these his natural childrē and bestowe them in his garrison Cities as his Tetrarches Lieutenants Tribunes with magnificent titles priuiledges power and authoritie to rule in his name and absence euen as his owne engrauen image ouer all Realmes Countries Territories within their Fathers dominiōs For as we haue also crediblie hearde there was neuer a Lorde Arch-Bishop or Lorde Bishop with such titles priuiledges power hearde of before the Pope created them Notwithstanding because wee haue these thinges but bie hearesay and would be lothe to affirme of things so vnsure we wil content our selues to haue proued and shewed the Arch Lord Bisshops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST and therfore of themselues antichristian from whom or howsoeuer they rise it skilleth vs not Neither shall it auaile them though they haue broken their faith and schismed from the Pope cast off his yoke renownced his vsurped power and tyrannie when they themselues are rounde to vsurpe retaine and exercise if not the same yet as antichristian enormous a power as the Pope retayning the same Courts Officers Cannons constitutions priuileges ouer all Churches Ministers causes doctrines censures they themselues not being subiect to the censure of anie Church exercising their aucthoritie and commandementes contrarie vnto and aboue all lawes both of God and of their Prince whose Royall Courts and writts are not of power to baile anie one committed by the leaste of their hierarchie assuming vnto themselues both the swordes exercising together and at once both ciuile and ecclesiasticall offices c. How well they aduance the Gospel of CHRIST that blaspheme the same and pronounce the rules ordinances and ministrie therof intollerable and persecute all such as either speake against them or for yt Let the tyrannous hauocke they make in the common wealth of poore christians in the prisons of the land shewe How wel by the liuelie worde they cut downe all idolatrie heresies and popish abhominations let the seruice-booke and publick worship of their Churche shewe Which whilest with a stronge hande they obtrude vpon euerie conscience as also impose vpon the Church is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship ouer the faith and conscience Or to speake as he doth is this nothing but to execute the external discipline to make and impose a newe Leitourgie for the whole administration of the Church Or is it likelie that this marcked Minister of ANTICHRIST knewe what the outward gouernment of CHRIST in his Church meaneth that saith yt concerneth not the conscience Is there anie more dreadful or reuerend action on earth amongst men then the iudgmentes of CHRIST in his Church which are al most holie and true Or doe not these concerne the conscience Doth not euerie action of which there are such certaine lawes set by CHRIST himself nearelie concerne the conscience to doe it according to the same when the least abuse neglect or swaruing from the rule euen in the least circumstance that is enioyned in the least censure doth so deface the action is so offensiue preiudicial do not those actions which are donne for the saluation of soules that are said to binde in heauen not concerne the conscience Or doe not those rules which are giuen for the direction and preseruation of the publick communion of the whole Church and priuate conuersation of euerie member therof without the obseruation of which rules there can be no order no dutie either publick or priuate no holie walking in anie caling kept concerne the conscience Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members therof as either neuer sinne and so need no watching ouer admonition reproof Or ells such a Church and members therof as make no conscience of anie thing as when they sinne will not amend wil not heare admonition or suffer reproof which is the meanes giuen of God to bring them to amendement Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holie outward gouernment of CHRIST ouer and in his Church not to concerne the conscience the myserable diuines of this age not to be of necessitie to the beeing and preseruation of a Church the blasphemous Bisshops of this land not to be a thing tollerable with manie other reprochfull blasphemies of the same which are not of anie christian almost to be hearde or repeated much lesse pronounced and defended These husbandmen are they that caste the Sonne and heyre out of the vineyarde that wil not haue him reigne ouer them but take the regiment into their owne hands deuising and erecting a newe forme of gouernement vnto the Church as these their popish Courtes Cannons Customes Officers declare and persecuting with al hostility and tyranny all such as pleade for Christes gouernement and wil not subiect their bodies and soules vnto their antichristian yoke But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and conscience though they vsurpe exercise and impose this strange ministrie ministration and gouernement in and ouer the Church All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th'administration of exernall discipline and concerneth not the conscience especiallie if it be seared with a whote Iron as Mr. Giffard is Wherfore we doe impudentlie and wickedlie sclander when wee therfore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian and whosoeuer is ordayned by them hath his ministrie from Antichrist and from the Deuil What kinde of ministrie your Lord Bishops exercise and aucthoritie they vsurpe by that which is alreadie written the reader may iudge or at leaste hath a direct way shewed furder to examine What kinde of rule they keepe or as you call it discipline they execute remaineth to be tryed in the fourth principal transgression Where if you make not a better defence for it then you haue donne for their
this tyme after that Gods spirit had wrought effectuallie in their and our hearts and opened our eyes to see part of his holy truth as also some of the heinouse abhominations committed defended and wilfullie persisted in in the false Church and ministrie constantlie euen to death bandes to witnesse against the same and to forsake the false Church notwithstanding al the pretextes gâ—oses and arguments the falfe Prophet shal adorne the Harlot with or make for his Ministry So deare is the loue of God of his holy truth vnto vs as we can suffer our selues neither by men or Angels be drawen into anie seene or willing transgression of his holy word And as for these arguments of Mr. Giffard what other are they then the Papistes haue brought against the first faithfull witnesses Iohn Husse Ierome of Pâ—â—ge Luther Caluine Frith â—indal c Or may bring at this daye against al the Churches that are departed from them Vnto the execution of our Ministery is ioyned the effectual grace power blessing and operation of the holy Ghoste to the true convertion of some mens soules Therfore our Ministrie is not of the diuil or Antichrist but indeed the true ministry of Christ. Ells al that haue liued thus manie hundred yeeres before you in our Church and knew not these newe learninges you hold are damned Ells all that haue died in our Church are damned yea ells you must hold al the Kinges and Princes Nobles Pieres and people in our Church reprobates c. But let vs come to your selues ye that are the aucthors of this Schisme Where had you your faith your first knowledge of God and of Christ if not in this Church by our ministrie we haue the true scriptures amongst vs we teache truly concerning the Godhead and the thee persons therof God the Father God the Sonne and God the Holy Ghost though distinct in persons yet one God c We preach Christ in his two natures verie God and verie man That he came into the world for the saluation of al mankinde That God so loued the world that he gaue his only begotteÌ„ Sonne that whosoeuer belieueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting Wee preach Christ crucified for our sinnes dead buried risen againe ascended glorified We preach him in his three offices to be our King Priest and Prophet Wee preach al the fundamental articles of our christian faith and as wee preach so you belieue al these Yea and we appeale to your consciences whether you haue founde ioy and comfort in your owne soules at the preaching of these doctrines Againe we preach the lawes of God in the tables and beate downe such sinnes as wee see to be contrarie to the same in such sort as manie are drawen to repentance to hatred sorrowe and remorce for sinne And these againe wee raise vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenes and with the promises of eternal life These things if ye schismaticks feele not yet vnto many others which by our preaching are converted vnto the Lorde indeed which vnto feare trembling doe feele the power sweetnes of the liuely worde we may say as the Apostle vnto the Corinthians in like case If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet ame I one vnto you ye are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord. And as for you Lutherans if you contynue not that is not our default if you fal from grace It is enough for vs that you haue felt this maiestie of the worde and it sufficeth to proue our ministrie that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with yâ— when men haue bene so moued though they contynue not seeing the reprobate may feele this power and taste this sweetnes for a tyme. Now then our ministry being thus proued by the law and the Gospel and by the testimony of the holy Ghost in these powerful effectes How can you thus separate from the meanes of your saluation from that ministry which hath begotten in you or at least doth begeat in others this knowledge faith comfort c Our ministrie theÌ„ being thus proued our Church must needes followe for a true ministrie doth not belong neither is at anie time founde in a false Church Yea you must graunt that whilest we hold the true foundation wee are the true Church though we erre in matters of circumstance other doctrines as you thincke yet that taketh not away our beeing of a Church The Churches at Corinth Gallatia Asia abounded with many faults errors corruptions as we reade yet are saluted by the Apostles recorded by the holy Ghost as true Churches Now that we hold the foundation our confession of the articles of our christian faith the ten coÌ„mandementes the Lordes prayer c. which you also confesse and vse shewe Therfore whilest you depart from vs you depart from the true Church Herevpon they might also vse those rethoricall flowers of Mr. GIFFARD his diuinitie to rayle reproach and invaye That they are ranck Donatistes Lutherans ignorant furious franctick schismatickes yea damnable heretickes forsaking the ministerie and truth of God condemning the Church of God bringing the holie ministerie thereof into contempt and so bring in flat atheisme barbarisme rebellion against Magistrates c. Howe thincketh Mr. Giff. would not these argumentes fit the Papistes aswell against them as they do him against vs Is he not driuen to hard shift when he must borrowe weapons of them to defend himself his Church ministrie worship gouernment They must needes stand fast when they are built vppon their groundes Let him then first answeare the Papistes to these reasons before he bring them against vs and then if he be not satisfied he shall heare what we can say to them For sure if they be not of force to bring them home againe to their Mother of ROME they wil neuer perswade vs to goe backe to them In the meane time Mr. Gif we signifie vnto you concerning this reason which you vrge and dilate That it is a ground of Anabaptistrie to iustifie open transgression by inwarde motions It is a grounde of Atheisme to pleade for or tollerate sinne because of such good effectes as you imagine to procede therof Mr. GIFFARD his next argument is drawen from our confession VVe confesse that they vvere blessed Martyres that suffred in Q. MARIES daies But thei were converted by the same ministeâ—ie vvhich vve haue now They had the same motions at the preaching of Latimer Hoper Taylor Bradford which our people haue noâ— at our preaching and Sacraments touching saith repentance and resolution to die for the testimonie of the Lorde Therfore let the Brownistes and al other wicked schismaticks barck that vve hâ—â—e no ministrie c. This reason hangeth vpon the same thread with this other last before and is built vpon the same popish and Anabaptistical grounds Touching the persons of these Martyres we haue alreadie in our first replie vnto your answeare set downe our christian opinion and iudgment Yet
true seede they that are borne after the fleshe persecuting them that are borne after the spirit It was shewed that wee are his seruantes and subiects to whom wee obeye That this yoke and bondage of Antichrist breaketh the wedlocke breaketh the Couenant with CHRIST CHRISTES loue and Couenant beeing no longer bounde or plight to vs then wee keepe faith to him which faith is forfeited and warre ended by yeilding and standing in bondage to Antichrist by taking and bearing his yoke which bondage and yoke was shewed and proued to be the badge of Antichrist the marcke of the Beaste which al the miserable multitudes vpon which the Harlot the false Church sitteth are compelled to receiue in their foreheades or in their handes wherbie the children of mounte Sina are knowen from the children of Ierusalem that is aboue and is free with al her children For al which children our Sauiour Christ hath purchased a ful and perfect libertie at a deare and pretious price hauing giuen vnto al his children the arrhabon of his spirit not the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption as sonnes And where this spirit is there is libertie For if wee be sonnes then are wee free and no bond seruantes For the bond seruaÌ„t abideth not in the house for euer but the sonne abideth for euer It was also shewed him to be a blasphemous error to say That to beare Antichristes yoke and gouernement is the lot of CHRISTES Church To conclude it was made plaine vnto him how fowllie he misvnderstoode abused falsified and peruerted those places of the Songe by him alleadged to proue that blasphemous error So that if Mr. G. would either haue bene aduertised or advised to make and put difference betwixt ciuile bondage and subiection and an antichristian bondage and yoke betwixt bodilie oppression and spiritual subiection Or would dulie haue pondered our opinions reasons and proues Or would haue bene admonished of his former dotages and errors he could not againe in these poyntes thus boldlie haue râ—sisted the euident truth turned away the direct scriptures vniustlie chardged and blasphemed vs persisted in his old dâ—â—estâ—ble errors tunne headlong into newe more and vnsufferably abused and peruerted the holy scriptures therevnto WE neuer denied and therfore may euil be chardged to hold That the Church might not be held in ciuile bondâ—ge bodily oppression persecution c by wicked vngodly guides both ciuil and ecclesiastical But what of this may it herevpon he concluded that therfore the Church may be held vnder Antichristes yoke in ecclesiastical or spiritual bondage There is no such consequeÌ„ce of this yet this is the state of the question propounded by Mr. G. in his first answeare And this he there endeuored to proue by this reason as also by the places of the Songe And nowe againe laboureth to bring to passe by an odde subtile diâ—tinction or diuision of his owne deuising and by sondry moe places of scripture He diuideth this antichristian yoke into two sortes a strict yoke and a lardge yoke His strict or proper yoke he saith is only spiritual and inwarde where the faith and conscience are burdened be in subiection to receiue Antichrist his lawes and worship The lardger yoke is when the Pastors of the Church doe vsurpe more then they ought in externall gouernment or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their hâ—nds This he calleth som antichristian yoke The first he saieth cannot be borne without falling from the freedome we haue in CHRIST The second as the lot of the Church may be willinglie suffred and wittinglie borne and yet remayne the Church of CHRIST and this by sondrie places of scripture he endeuoreth to proue First vnto his distinction or diuision of an antichristian yoke into straight and lardge outward and inwarde we acknowledge yt without the compasse of our reading or vnderstanding Wee stil affirme that no yoke or gouernement but only Christes may be borne or receiued of the true Church We furder saye and already haue proued that al the lawes and ordinances of Christes Testament howe outwardly and smale soeuer they may seeme concerne the conscience and that the wilfull omission and transgression therof bondeth both bodie and soule vnto iudgment without repentance So likewise we hold that euerie antichristian yoke chardgeth and bindeth the conscience both bodie and soule It being opposite vnto and a transgression of CHRISTES lawes and ordinances And therfore wonder how these Academical diuines these pleaders for iniquitie dâ—re hatch vs these poysoned distinctions of lardg and straight antichristian yokes the one binding the other not concerning the conscience Except they can shewe Gods lawe Or ells some transgression of Gods lawe that bindeth and chardgeth not the conscience Vntil Mr. Gif can doe this he must giue vs leaue not to receiue his curious distinction of lardge and straight yoke outward and inward Wee thincke also his reason somewhat hardlie constrayned when he concludeth because Antichrists yoke is spiritual Therfore onlie inwarde Wee call yt spirituall because yt commeth as also Antichrist himself doth by the effectual worcking of Sathan As also because it is wholly about spiritual and ecclesiastical actions and procedings But shal we therfore say yt is onlie inwarde Might not by these reasons the whole visible Church yt self al the publicke ministration actions and ordinances therof as also euerie person member therof be said only inward because they are al said spiritual Againe it semeth that Mr. G. litle vnderstandeth what an Antichristian yoke is that termeth euerie sinne and disorder arising in the Church an antichristian yoke We confesse the Church may transgresse of negligence or ignoraÌ„ce yea so suffer such vngodlie presumptuous persons Ministers to abuse their power for a ceason yet this is not willingly to beare or wittingly to receiue anie antichristian yoke neither cease they herevpon to be true Churches whilest they despise not admonitioÌ„ neither refuse to repent being reproued Yet this we saie the Church greatlie sinneth in suffring such presumptuous inordinate persons whom they ought to cast out And if so be the Church either want wil and refuse to cast them out being admonished or want power and be not able to cast them out being discouered but it brought in subiection remayneth in boÌ„dage to these guides yt ceaseth in this estate vnto our iudgment to be the true Church of Christ. And nowe to the scriptures Mr. G. bringeth that the true Church may wittingly and willinglie be brought into bondage of some antichristian yoke Ezech. 34. Ierem. 5. 31. Ier. 20. 1. Ioh. 7. 13. Iohn 9. 22. First wee say that these Ministers were by office and caling true Ministers of the Temple but their Ministers by office and calling are not and so no comparison Then we say that these were now so wholly degenerate and apostatate in Iehoiakim and Zedechiahs tymes and the whole state so corrupted and fallen from God into
ioyned together with y e actioÌ„ by the same aucthoritie neither may by any mortal man be changed or separate from the same So y â— M r. G. his owne coÌ„fession in that their gouernmeÌ„t wanteth the true forme for here we reason not of faultes in a true forme but of a diuers false forme is reason enough to shew that it is not that true gouernment which Christ hath instituted And then must yt needes followe to be a false and antichristian gouernment And consequently all that stand vnder yt to stand vnder the yoke of Antichrist and not to haue Christ their kinge gouernour Moreouer the Brownist with whom he hath to doe hath learned doth fully belieue That CHRIST ruleth in his Church by his owne officers and lawes and not by any such popish Officers Courtes and CaÌ„nons as these BBs doe in the Church of England All which he hopeth M r. G. will not say to be of the forme of discipline For sure he holdeth a true ministrie and the rules of the Bible to be of such necessitie as the true Church may neuer receiue anie other Ministers or lawes for their administration and gouernment We haue likewise lardglie alreadie proued this whole ministrie administration ordinance and maner of gouernmeÌ„t not to be according to the rules of Gods worde but forged popish and false Only in this place we would knowe of M r. G. if the Bishopps and their false Hierarchie Courtes iurisdiction gouernment were of God how theÌ„ these learned Reformist Preachers may sue seeke to haue them vtterly remoued out of the church I would not here be vnderstood of their persons wherof might be some colour reason enough but of their offices Courtes iurisdiction gouernment Al which they would haue vtterly abolished taken away which if they were of Christ could not be donne without most heynouse impietie sacriledge without a most grievous wouÌ„de mayme in the body of Christ by cutting off such pretious and principal members and officers of Christ and that for euer If those BB s their accomplices Courtes and gouernment were of Christ then are these Reformistes which sue and labour to haue them remoued and abolished most dangerous and pestilent seducers that perswade the Prince and realme to doe this violence to the bodie of Christ his Church to reiect the holy gouernmeÌ„t and ministrie of Christ which who so despiceth or putteth away despiceth putteth away Christ himself and so perswad and drawe they their Prince and the whole land into the assuted wrath and vengeance of God â—ut nowe on the contrarie if these Bishops officers courtes gouernmeÌ„t be not of Christ then belong they not vnto neither haue anie thing to doe or to intermeddle with the ministrie or gouernmeÌ„t or anie action of the Church of Christ. How great then on the other side is the perfidie apostasie of these Reformistes that knewe and pronounced in open Parliament that they were not of God and sought to haue them vtterlie remoued Yet now for filthie lucre for feare of persecution subscribe sweare and submit to their antichristian Hierarchie power courtes iurisdiction to al the detestable enormities that flowe from their throne That diriue their ministrie from exercise yt vnder them yea that exercise their ministrie keep the whole land vnder their yoke and so in the knoweÌ„ wrath of God How odious is the hypocrisie apostasie of this graceles maâ— that somtymes knewe stood against these enormities yet now as a withered fruictlesse tree twice deade plucked vp by the rootes is falleÌ„ apostatat from al faith light sauoure conscieÌ„ce feeling as that starre wormewood that poysoneth maketh bitter deadly al the waters he faleth into now pleading fighting for that apostatical throne of iniquitie terming that nowe the gouernment power of Christ in matter and effect which he himself Page 56. 58. of his booke coÌ„fesseth not to binde in heaueÌ„ not to be iust as in respect of them that doe excoÌ„municate c colouring al the abominations that flowe from this throne and al the controuersies about their gouernment with a diuers outward forme I hope he wil admit the TestameÌ„t ministrie of Christ to be of the matter substaÌ„ce And theÌ„ shall his halting on both sides double dissimulatioÌ„ appeare to al meÌ„ that durst not set downe so much as the coÌ„trouersie amongst theÌ„selues trulie which yet T. C. his Lord of VVinchester dealt more rowndly in flatlie denijng the Apostolick discipline to be either perpetual or necessarie but especially elections excoÌ„munication c by the people to be either expedient or tollerable bringing sondrie fleshly reasons politicke incoÌ„ueniences impedimeÌ„ts to the contrarie the refutation of whose blasphemies beloÌ„geth to an other place But this maÌ„ thincking to keepe in with both sides setteth downe the controuersie to be onlie about the forme not about the matter of discipline although the Bishops abash not in playne wordes to the veiwe of the world to the face of Christ to denie the verie matter yt self As both sides also doe in deedes effect whilest they acknowledg that Christ hath giuen vnto his Church the power of elections censures yet both of them withdraw this whole power froÌ„ the Church The one into their sequestred Synodes the other into their popish Courtes If so be this power wilbe grauÌ„ted to be of the matter of discipline But this questioÌ„ is soone put to an end whilest the Bishops denie the Apostolick discipline yt self as tollerable in the common wealth and flatlie denie Christ to reigne ouer them or ouer this Church by his owne officers lawes And therfore except he wil giue their persons accoÌ„plices and trayne an immunitie from al ecclesiastical censures not to be subiect for anie transgressioÌ„ or error to the reproof or power of the Church yea except he wil resigne his right into their handes and giue them leaue to reigne rule ouer al the Churches in this laÌ„d and that by their owne officers courtes caÌ„nons constitutions iniunctions c he is no Kinge or Christ for them Nay if he wil not bowe downe to al these and take their yoke vpoÌ„ him he is no subiect for them he may not buy and sell nor liue in this market in this Church Which Officers Courtes Cannons c if Mr. G. had proued to haue bene of the matter of Christes discipline for of the forme we wil al graunt him they are not and had approued iustified them by the worde of God then had he some colour to aske this question whether some faultes in their discipline should make yt antichristian But seing these Bishopps their Courtes Officers Cannons c were by vs affirmed vnto him to haue no foundatioÌ„ or mention in Gods worde no place nor vse in Christs Church but to be contrarie to the one most preiudicial daÌ„gerous to the other And
he in all this space could bring vs no defence for them Wee cannot see by his owne reason seing they haue neither the true matter nor the forme of CHRISTES gouernment howe their gouernment should be held and esteamed the true and holie gouernment of Christ And then must that sequel which he so feareth needes followe that yt is an antichristian gouernment yoke such as the true Church seruantes of Christ may not beare and wittinglie stand vnder To perticulate all the seuerall corruptions abuses enormities of the gouernment of these antichristian Bishops is not in mie skil or power not knowing in anie measure their Cannons customes orders priueledges proceedings Onlie this in general I may affirme that of such pompeous stagelike popish mixt Courtes handling both ciuile ecclesiastical causes iudiciallie I neuer read through al the book of God or to belonge to Christes Church Especiallie exercising such absolute power iurisdiction ouer al Churches causes and persons ecclesiastical yea vsurping assuming and executing the whole power offices and dueties of al Churches yea euen the proper prerogatiues priuiledges only belonging to Christ himself To make impose or abrogate lawes To giue or rather sel licences dispensations to haue more benefices then one to marrie to eate flesh at tymes of restrainte c To cal sommon and fetch by coÌ„strainte al causes persons of the Church before them There to determine decree to censure silence suspeÌ„d sequester depose incarcerate punish by mulct what Minister or meÌ„ber of the Church they lust of their owne absolute aucthoritie without any controlement reprose or redresse The Church hauing no power or libertie to reprooue or refuse no not so much as call into question anie thing they do or decree to rebuke or censure these inordinate lawlesse fellowes for anie thing they doe either publickely or priuatly The Church must receiue obey as most holie whatsoeuer they decree or impose with al reuerence as the oracles of God though they be neuer so contrarie to the worde of God The Church or any other member of the Church in these Courtes be not permitted so much as to propounde or pleade their owne cause But are by them coÌ„pelled to their romish litigious course procedinges To speake pleade by a feed Advocate or Proctor after their popish order and custome Where for bribes fees al causes be they neuer so fowle corrupt are handled pleaded and proceede that I say not succeede And without such bribes fees no cause be yt neuer so iust and y e partie neuer so poore or innoceÌ„t hath audience or help Here being so many officers catchpolles attendantes to be feed pleased To all these rauenous Birdes with fingers the suetors sommoned become a pray But especially the faithful such as speak against and will not of conscience and faith vnto God stoope downe vnto their antichristian power or obey their vngodly decrees These shalbe worse vsed then any trayterous Papists or facinorous persons whatsoeuer who shall all of them by their purse or freindes escape well enough find fauour when these poore soules shall neuer geat out of their handes without wrack either of bodie or soule either death or denying the faith These though there be no direct matter euidence witnesses or accusers against them yet shall themselues be inforced to a corporal oth as they call it vpon and by a booke to answeare directly and truly to such articles and poyncts as shalbe propownded vnto them If they denie or make conscience either of the maner or matter of this oth then instead of godly instruction or christian persuasion they are forthwith committed to prison yea for the most parte to close prison there to remaine shut vp from al ayre exercise friendes dueties callings c vntill they either yeild to take this idolatrous blasphemous and impious oth or dye vnder their handes No baile maineprise help benefite or redresse by lawe by the Queenes Royal writtes or Courtes allowed to any that are committed by the leaste of this hellish Anarchie Whose lawlesse and insolent dealinges oppressions iniuries violence may not be caled in question or examined by anie ciuile Magistrates or Courtes All which they patronize by her Ma ties high or especiall Commission vnto them Although her Ma tie suffreth her Roial Prerogatiue to be handled considered of in some of these ciuile Courtes yea graunteth to all her free borne subiectes the benefite free vse of her Highnes lawes euen in anie cases or causes betwixt her Highnes and them according to the great Charter in the Magna Charta whervnto her Ma tie is sworne which Charter also these lawlesse Prelates most presumptuouslie and tyrannously violate breake vnder colour of her Ma ties Commission thus setting her Ma ties Commission against her Ma ties Prerogatiue Courtes Royal against that great Charter of the land against all her Highnes lawes yea against al the lawes of God the TestameÌ„t Kingdome of Christ. But to say as it is their procedinges are both against ther coÌ„mission if they might be dulie examined conferred thervnto and against her Ma tâ—es meaning Whose milde preceable iust gouernmeÌ„t in al causes that procead from her self assure vs that She would neuer wittingly graunt such a commission as shoulde be so preiudicial to her owne Crowne Royal dignitie to the estate of the Church and of the whole common wealth as this wherby these Prelates beare themselues their vngodly procedings is That power graunted vnto her Ma tie by ParliameÌ„t to appoinct aucthorize whom she shal thinck meet to execute vnder her al maner iurisdictioÌ„s priuiledges and preemineÌ„ces concerning ecclesiastical causes to her belonging is as also al other her Princely power aucthoritie alwaies to be vnderstood in the Lord so far as shalbe found consonant to his word For neither is there giuen neither may or wil her Ma tie take or exercise any furder or other power then the Lord her God giueth her In whom Kinges reigne of whom their power is diriued and holden by whom yt is circumscribed and limited to whom they shal as anie other persons accompt If then these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie these romish Courtes and their popish procedinges in the same be not fownde to be of God to haue anie warrant in his word or to belong to the ministrie gouernment of Christes Church then can no commission or humane aucthoritie whatsoeuer make them lawfull impose or enioyne them vpon the Church Neither ought anie Christian to obey them at the CommandmeÌ„t of any mortal maÌ„ Men must alwaies be obeyed in the Lord. Vnto whom when or wherein they be fownd coÌ„trarie or opposite there must God rather then meÌ„ be obeyed His indignation that caÌ„ cast both body soule into hel fire is more to be feared theÌ„ theirs that can but touch the body only To obey Gods commaundements and to refrayne
betwene the Donatistes cause ours I would if he would forbeare to conclude me a Donatist for this poinct demaund this question in their cause if their accusation had bene true Namely whether one that hath professed the faith and after so foully apostatat as to accuse his bretheren denie the faith persecute the truth he sometimes professed may without repentance be receiued into the Church againe Then whether though he repent and be receiued he be euer capable of the ministerie or no. Then whether he alone may ordaine an other Minister or no if hee do whether the other be a lawful Minister or no. But in such cases in the Churche I could like well to here some man to perswade to repentance or to cast out the obstinat by due order and neither Augustine nor Angell from heauē to plead for a tolleration of open transgression which pleading for sinne maketh vs suspect the matter verie deeply iustifijng neither Their similitudes the riuer from the fountaine the members the head the stock and the plant in their application wee approue not but hold the doctrine erronious that they thought anie thing could be ordeyned from the person of the man in that sort But your discent from Antichrist and pedegree in that kingedome is an other thing if you would please to conceiue it namely that your office names liuinges entrāce administration c is of the Pope of Satan and that whē his kingdome shalbe abolished your office name entrance Vicarage leitourgie and all shalbe cast with the great milstone vpon them with all such trafique into the bottome of the sea Herevpon it is we say your discent is from the Pope within few degrees being the childrē of these Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope who is the eldest sonne of Sathā and his vicar generall vpon earth whose image marke power and life you beare and together with him lyue reigne stand and fall as the branches with the tree for when the power decrees gouernment offices worship c of Antichrist is gone all your ministerie is vanished for euer The Lorde therfore put in her Ma ties heart to extirpate the same and to aduāce CHRISTS lawes ordinances ministerie worship c as he is worthie that euery knee may bowe vnto him But Mr. Giffard affirmeth we shal not be able to proue our accusation of their Ministerie that yt is by discent from Antichrist his reason is ther is no Minister in England by the Pope c. We shal not here need to seek out a Pope in England If hee will learne to distinguish betwene the Popes person and his decrees Canons orders after the Popes orders of priesthood he must be driuen to confesse their whole ministerie office entrance c to be drawen by discent and wee thinck Mr. Giff. will not hang the life and vertue of holy thinges vpon mens persons but vpon the ordinances of God lest he be a Donatist Hee further affirmeth the ministerie of publishing the Gospel delyvering the sacramentes is not the deuise of man but Christs ordinance Do you thinke Mr. Giff. can begg the question to affirme a Ministerie whose office entrance c is of Antichrist doth publish the Gospel Againe that they receiue yt as Christs Ministery when it is from point to point wholly found to be after the orders of Antichrist And when no shift wil help him out he is faine to affirme valiantly that the ministery was not vtterly destroyed in popery for there remained the Sacrament of Baptisme See here how he hath plunged himself into the sea of poperie and ouertumbled y e doctrines of his learned Fathers T. Co. saith from Malachie that the ministerie is not tyed to the succession of mens persons but to the law ordinances and what ministery the Popes is reade Reuel 9. c. You charge her Ma tie verie far to haue cast out y e true ministeri out of the lād for putting our Pope Cardinal shauē crowned Priest Fryer Monke Abbot And if y e Baptisme could not be a true Sacramēt without a lawful Minister then your ministerie being vnlawful ther is no seale w t promise no true church c. Seeing then the holy Ghost hath described that Church to be the Harlot sitting vpon many waters the mother of fornications confused Babel murderesse of the Saintes an holde of vncleane spirits and a cage of euerie vncleane and hatefull birde neither ministerie Sacramentes worship or anie thing remayneth there according to Gods ordinance and at the best you make your self this whole land Scismaticks from the true Church Ministeri Sacramentes if it so stand with the Church of Rome ministeri therof and of necessitie you are al Donatistes by your reasoning though my purpose is not to defend and proue in this discourse but to call a fewe notes to your memorie I will conclude this point that you are driuen to the Popes ministerie for your orders now desiring you to satisfie vs next time concerning the Popes damnable masse or Sacrament of the Altar if they be true Ministers whether the Church cā haue one Sacrament good and in other euil one with promise the other damnable blasphemous and accursed for I take it they cannot be true Ministers at the Font and sacriledgious massmongers at the Altar Weigh these things more cōsideratly before you publish such doctrines in England againe To the Sacramentes THe Donatistes did hold that the Sacramentes or efficacie of them depend vpon the worthines and holynes of the mā that administreth But the Brownistes are not of that minde To this obiection hee verie charitablie answereth that in this great ranke point of donatisme hee can finde no difference at all Let the wordes and meaning of both be skanned and it shall appeare manifestly that they hold the self same thing neither more nor lesse but like euen bretheren or ells Mr. Giffard wil be found a common lyer and sclanderer This mā may not be suspected of anie malitious practise to deface the truth yet is found to make his comparison by his false sclanders and not of anie direct sentence of ours What sinne hee is fallen into that so often dirideth the word bretheren let the godly consider The Donatistes held that if the man being a lawful Minister were a sinner the Sacrament delyuered by him was no true Sacramēt Mr. Giffard confesseth we hold no such thing where is then the consimilitude The Donatistes held that the faith or conscience of the gyuer did giue faith vnto purge make cleane the conscience of the receiuer and so of the contrarie the guyltines which doctrine we holde to be blasphemous it is only y e holy Ghost that worketh faith and purgeth from an euil conscience The Donatistes held that if he which did administer were an open sinner he was no Minister and so no Sacrament We do not hold that euery opē sinne maketh the Minister no Minister seing the high Priest manie times sinned vnder
the hearing of the publick doctrine prayer of y e Church but to enter Couâ—nâ—t or be receiued a member it is to be done by doctrine faith and repentance Neither did the kinges of Iuda compel the Priestes to receiue anie vncircumcised or Idolatours into y e fellowship of the Church Faith is the gift of God wrought by his Spirit word The Prince may coÌ„pel to the meanes therevnto but not enforce faith The Donatistes resisted the Magistrate so far as they durst saith he and wheÌ„ Iulian the Apostata shewed them fauour their circumcellioÌ„s made reuel in companies walking with clubbes staues did spoile beate such as lighted in their hands c The impatient heare of Browâ—istes is not vnknowen c. Let this lawlesse man shewe where euer anie of vs haue resisted the Magistrate or spokeÌ„ euil of the ruler of the people or gone about to reuenge our selues by any violence or vnlawful meanes As for his prophesie what we would be if we had power it layeth open himself to be a malicious false Prophet to incitate the Magistrate with lying dreames Let him better consider and he shal find that this Antichristian Prelacie hath bene not only the procurers but shedders of much innocent blood vsurping ciuile power And how they haue behaued themselues towards their soueraigne Kings Princes let y e Records be searched in your Church are found dayly treasons bloodshed c and most plentifull in your mother Church of Rome This then is but the false report of Sanballat and Tobia to hinder Gods Temple Nowe admiring Mr. Giffards clearing of the Donatistes of errour affirming they differed not from the other Churches in doctrine as also manifest or al least protest our innocencie from these and all other errours in the perticular course handled or els where to be found I will set downe three or fower grosse errours before him which we detest in the Donatistes as That he which or deineth a Minister as it seemeth they allowed ordinatioÌ„ by one maÌ„ is the head of him ordeined yea the fountaine and the other the riuer therfore if the head be holy the other is therby made holy and so on the contrarie if the first be wicked That the conscience of him that gyueth may wash the conscience of him that receiueth That when hee which baptiseth is manifest a good man hee gyueth faith hee is the original the roote the head of him that is by Gods spirit renewed That those which are baptised by a wicked man though in a lawfull office ought to be baptised againe That it is lawfull in some respectes to kill themselues That the Magistrate cannot compel vs to that which is good That we haue free wil after regeneration I wil not now iustifie Mr. Giff. explaining of their mindes whether in these or anie other wee handled I take al in this matter from his record which I hope hee will not affirme to be false As for his learned Fathers how they haue wrasted the scriptures new Testament and old in more then twenty false expositions and flat contradictions of the scope of the whole Canon of the worde to iustifie opeÌ„ iniquitie by slightes and tollerat it in the publicke assemblies with all their doctrines of separating in heart and not in bodye at comon meates and not at holy communion that all nations should be the apparant Church c wee leaue them al denying to enter controuersie with dead men wishing Mr. Giffard to spread such deceites in other mens names no more but to come orderly to some christian triall by the Booke of God In the meane tyme hee seeth wee neither hold of Donatistes nor of Augustine but followe faith in a pure conscience to our knowledge readie to be instructed wherein wee erre And when hee hath made such a lardge discourse to proue vs Anabaptistes Montanistes Arians Pelagians Nicolaitans c we shal in stead of conflicting with a beater of the ayre and vnconscionable sclanderous rayler demand the end and vse of his labours and nowe leaue him to his accompt for his defacing and blaspheming of the truth wishing all men to beware of such methodes of imposture I. G. FINIS A FEWE OBSERVATIONS OF Mr. GIFFARDS LAST CAVILLS ABOVT stinted read prayers and deuised Leitourgies HAving heretofore written an answere to Mr. George Giffards pretended defence of stinted read praiers deuised Leitourgies and since receiued an emptie replie wherin he doth nothing lesse theÌ„ yeild to any sound reason alledged but vngodlily cauilleth at and peruersly wrasteth the sence of so much as he toucheth I seeing no cause of further strife his former convinced to intermedle againe with perticular handling of his chaffe smoke his reasons in effect the same before answered haue only thought it my dutie to illustrate vnto the Readers some few brief poincts abused by him that they may the better be able to iudge of the former writings wherevnto with these few helpes following I refer the trial WHERAS I alledged out of the 8. to the Rom. and out of the 4. to the Galath that in the verie time action of our praiâ—ng to God the spirit of God was the only instructor and the only help no other help mentioned or that can be collected in the Scriptures Mr. GIFFARD hauing granted that reading prayer is not praying doth now answere that how soeuer the Scripture doth extol magnifie outward helpes meanes yet when they are compared with God which worketh all in all by them or when the scripture will set forth the efficacie worke to be his alone they are either not mentioned or els if they be mentioned so cast downe as if they were nothing God buyldeth his Church saith he by the ministerie of men yet Paul is said to plant Apollos to water but God to gyue the encrease 1 Corinth 3. and therfore to gather from those places Rom. 8. Galat. 4. that there neede or may be no outward help or meanes in the verie action and instant of praying is far awrye In which answere it euidently appeareth he is so bent to turne away all truth raise new strife as ther can be no expectation of agreement There is no sequence neither doth the Scripture alledged proue his owne reason so that nothing hangs togeather No man doubteth but that sometimes and in some places of Scripture the outward meanes of begetting and encreasing faith is only recited and sometimes the secret work of Gods spirit only sometimes both when yet they are not diuided but goe together and all of God both inward worke outward meanes though in way of coÌ„parison I neuer so read but rather the one repeated for both For shal I say that wheÌ„ the word of God preaching therof is â—hewed to be the power of God vnto saluation that the inward worke of the Spirit is therfore not mentioned because the other is of God theÌ„ both inward outward meanes being of God Gods owne worke