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A01299 A briefe confutation, of a popish discourse: lately set forth, and presumptuously dedicated to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie: by Iohn Howlet, or some other birde of the night, vnder that name Contayning certaine reasons, why papistes refuse to come to church, which reasons are here inserted and set downe at large, with their seuerall answeres. By D. Fulke, Maister of Penbroke Hall, in Cambridge. Seene and allowed. Fulke, William, 1538-1589.; Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. Brief discours contayning certayne reasons why Catholiques refuse to goe to church. 1583 (1583) STC 11421; ESTC S102704 108,905 118

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faith sworne vnto God in their oath of baptisme Or els her highnesse must thinke great dis●…oyaltie what speake I of disloyaltie yea open and manifest contumely in such an impudent marchant as dare be bold to assure her subiects y ● commaunding them to ioyne with her in true religion shée commaundeth them to breake their firste fayth sworn to God in baptisme and yet notwithstanding cannot but be cōforted at their obstinate contempt to her most iust and godly commaundement But let the matter of the first fayth remaine in question What assurance can her maiestie haue of the kéeping of their second fayth and alleadgeance sworn to her heighnes as to y e substitut of god How many of those recusants presended for cōscience and kéeping of their first faith sworn to go●… ioined with the trayterous Earl●…s of Northumberland and Westmerland in open and actual rebellion against her maiesties person her crowne a●…d dignitie Behold the bond of assurance that her heighnes hath by their obstinate refusing to yéeld vnto her gracious and godly procéedings These be the linkes of loyalty wherby papists are so chained in obedience vnto their god y t they cānot be traytors against their prince This is the recognisance of their dutie y ● they wil stick vnto her maiestie if occasiō should serue y ● so soone as any occasion is offred to shew thēselues in their right collors stick not to make open war against her maiestie euen in her owne realme and their natiue countrey I hart●…ly beseech almightie God if it bée his will for Christes sake to illuminate their blind eyes that their heartes being truely conuerted vnto God they may bée méete instrumentes to serue the Prince Which grace if it be not his maiesties pleasure to graunt vnto them sor causes knowne to his diuine wisdome I beséech him for his mercie that her highnesse neuer haue néede or vse of their ayde who are her secréete sworn ●…imies howsoeuer they pretend an outward countenance of duetie and faythful●…esse But to returne to this our discourser if Papistes could bée ashamed of any thing my thinke he should not for sh●…me promise her maiestie assurance of their fidellitie who hauea receiued principle y ● to infidels and such as they accounte herhighnesse to be no fayth or promise of obedience it is to bée obserued And what talketh hée of a secundarie fayth sworne vnto her highnesse as though either shée or any almost in Englande were ignorant of the blasphemous bulles of Pius quintus and Gregorius 13. giuen forth against her maiestie procured by the traitours on that side the sea by which al her subiects are assured to bée discharged of all oth of obedie●…ce and loyaltie vnto their souereigne and the Prince her selfe with more vile tearmes then I in respecte of her honour and my duetie may expresse as méete for the basph●…mous mouth of Antichrist as vnworthy of her most 〈◊〉 and noble personage discharged of y ● most lawful souer eigntie which by the ordinance of G●…d her most iust title by all law righ equitie doth appertaine vnto her Will they stick to her Maiestie in conscience of anyoth whose consciences the Pope hath loosed from al dutie of alleadgeance Haue not all the Papistes ●…ne sense of this matter or els where is the vnitie they brag of d●…th not Bristo in his 40. motiue affyrme that al the Papistes in England be duelie discharged from subiectiō and the Prince frō dominion by the souereigne autoritie of the common pastor of relygion Saith he not in the same motiue that although they be discharged of their fealtie yet they obey for common humanitie He might much more truly haue said that being in their traiterous perswasion discharged of their fealty wherinsoeuer they obey it is for feare of penaltie How can they that thinke themselues discharged of their fealty kéepe their secōd faith and aleadgeaunce ●…worne to her highnesse as to the substitute of God whome they wickedly imagine to bée discharged from dominion by the souereigne authoritie of Gods vicar in their tearme but the dauilles dearling in very déede But if the rebellion in the North the Bulles of their two last Popes Feltons execution Brisues motiues and a great many other motiues inducing her maiestie to conceiue of them as of most daungerous persons to the state were all cleane forgotten or els had neuer gone before are the attempts of Saunder in Ireland so obscure or y ● Pope●… standerd throwne downe so lowe or his garyson of soldiours so wholy discomfited or his forte so througly rased and made euen with the ground or Campions proude and foolish chaleng and the flocking of so many I●…suits and Seminaristes as so many trompets and bellowes of sedition into England concurring with the hostile inuasion of Ireland so cléerely abolyshed that no monumentes of popish sidelitie and alleadgeance to their souereigne remaine to bée gathered or considered of them but that this new discourser dare assure her Maiestie that the disobedience of Papistes is an argument of their loyaltie their obstinacie a proofe of their fidelitie their cont●…mpte of God and his trueth a conclusion of their alleageaunce and sworne seruice to their Prince Yet is hée so confident in defending their wilfulnesse that hée a●…ouceth that their aduersaries also and persecutors cannot in any reason mislike it for that the contrary relygion were to haue them as constant and faythfull in that if it were possible to winne them to the same In déede constancie if the cause bée good wherein it is deserueth great commendation but obstinacie in an euil cause as it hath nothing y ● in reasō can moue wise men to like it so hath it not a necessarie consequence that the obstinate being once reclaymed to good religion will al waies continue constant in the same For beside experiēce in some of the recusantes who haue reuoulted from the truth once professed that constancie wherby true religiō is faithfully maintained is the gift of God and diffreth as much from obstinacie whereby an euill matter is borne out as trueth differeth from falshood and good relygion from heresie The last part of y ● answer to this pretēded letter is spent in promising to proue their obstin●…cie to be constancie and their wi●…lnes to be conscience and in 〈◊〉 his friendes desire briefly to touche three thinges The firste poynte shall bee what cause 〈◊〉 reason the Catholikes haue sayeth hee to stande as they do●… in the refusall of thinges offered them and especially of going to church The other two poyntes which are altogether omitted I will rehearse in the ende with a briefe coniecture of the cause why the same were giuen ouer And now to the first parte and in déede The onely matter and whole discourse of this treatise The first parte THat the Queenes most excellent maiestye the honourable Lordes of her pryuy Counsell and other the learned and wise of England may see that the refusall of going
〈◊〉 quicke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 in the thirde Person Hee that knoweth the thinges too bee yll that he doeth and yer doeth them he goeth dow●… quicke into Hell Whiche hee woulde haue vs to suppose 〈◊〉 Augus●… hadde spoken of all sinn●… whiche is a●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Princes and 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 of the Do●…atistes whom therefore hee sayeth to haue gone quicke into Hell because they wilfully and mali●…iously agaynst theyr knowledge and of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the prouidence of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Hell For this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 maketh be●…wéene the followers and the 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…ded to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 come vppon them whiche 〈◊〉 conse●…ted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And what those Capraynes and 〈◊〉 Let them goe downe quicke 〈◊〉 hell because they handle the Scriptures and knowe w●…l by reading daylye howe the Catholicke 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all the whole worlde that all Contiadiction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bee founde ●…or their Schisme ●…y 〈◊〉 it well and therefore they goe downe quicke vnto Hell c. By this it is euident that Augustine spe●…keth not of all them that sinne agaynst knowledge but of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 and not of infirm●…tio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 although the sinne agaynst the holye Ghost bée ●…death death and denyed to be pardoned yet it followeth not as 〈◊〉 discourser concludeth that all dissem●… Papistes in Englande 〈◊〉 hee termeth dissembling 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 receaue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 of knowledge whiche 〈◊〉 nothing 〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 able 〈◊〉 although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too make yt a more haynous case whiche as hée sayeth Knowe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee directly agaynst other mens consci●…ces and yet doe 〈◊〉 them to doe it As to 〈◊〉 ●…aynst they●… will to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…gaynst their will Sh●… wée haue nowe a newe Paradore y ● wil may bee compelled Sure I am that no man 〈◊〉 compelled to receyue or 〈◊〉 that will not although mea●…es are vsed to make them 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not And who that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 that are not willing ●…eth that they are directly agaynst their Consci●…ce w●…n they doe them or rather maye not saf●…lye thinke theyr C●…nscience is no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they maye doe them when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so much 〈◊〉 But 〈◊〉 it that they 〈◊〉 and that 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 cause for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they receyue 〈◊〉 and ●…weare all in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall cre●… of Godly lawes cease because Hypocrites will not obey them but with dissimulation yet it wée may beleeue this Patr●…ne of our Re●…usantes hée prot●…steth saying Surely as I am nowe mynded I woulde not for tenne thousande wordes compell a Iewe to sweare that there were a Blessed Trinitie For albeeyt the thinge bee neuer so true yet shoulde hee bee damned for swearing agaynst his conscience and I for compelling 〈◊〉 too committe s●… heynous and grieuous a sin You doe well to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that you maye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when you 〈◊〉 better 〈◊〉 And sure I am that either you are a 〈◊〉 from all your fellow Papistes or if the law were in youre hande 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we a p●…ctise contrary to this protestation for lesse then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But I pray 〈◊〉 that haue so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that you 〈◊〉 not compell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…oe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same 〈◊〉 it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and godly haue you not the same scrupulosttie in forbidding them to doe anie thing which in their conscience they are perswaded they ought to doe I thinke you woulde not for tenne thousande worldes 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 to be circumcised ●…or a 〈◊〉 to woorship 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Moabit●… to offer his 〈◊〉 in Sacrifice nor any 〈◊〉 from d●…yng anye th●…g whiche in their conscience they thinke they are bounds to doe If you woulde compell them to omitte that whiche they beléeue to bee good because you 〈◊〉 it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euill why will you not compell them to doe that whiche you 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 good although they thinke 〈◊〉 to be euill But if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a sinne not o●…lye of it selfe deser●…ng da●…ation but 〈◊〉 excluded from all hope of remission to compell men to doe ●…nye thing against theyr conscience although their consciences bee naughte and the thing neuer so good how●… ca●…e you exc●…ise the generall practise of Papistes whiche compell Prote●…auntes with more grie●…s paynes then anye are compelled of vs ●…oo sweare obedience to the Pope too heare Masse too acknowledge transubstantiation and other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you knowe ●…s 〈◊〉 too bée directly agaynst their con●…nce as 〈◊〉 knowe or can knowe that any of such 〈◊〉 where●… Papistes are compelled is against their conscience But I perceiue that if you continue as you are nowe mynded and that all Papistes woulde reforme theire iudgement according to your mynde we should haue a my●…der gou●…rnement of Papistes wher●…soeuer they rule then hitherto was euer knowne too bée since Papistrie hadde her firste beginning And as you are nowe mynded you woulde condemne the greate manne who made the great Supper Luke 14 Because hee commaunded his seruauntes to compell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 come 〈◊〉 him and Augustine whiche heereof gathereth that it was the du●…tie of Magistrates to compell Heretikes too th●… hearing of Gods woorde in the Churche and communicating with the faythfull You woulde con●… Iosiah who caused all that were ●…ounde in Ierusalem and Beniam●… to sta●…d to the 〈◊〉 that he made ●…ith 〈◊〉 Lord compe●…ed that were 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 their God 2. 〈◊〉 34. Among which multitude it is not like 〈◊〉 many did in their censciences better like of Idolatre then of Gods worship and that the word of compulsion plainely declareth for it appertaineth to them that are vnwilling and not to them that are prompt and redy to obey But let vs weigh the cause why you would not for so many thousand worldes compell a Iew to swere to the blessed trinitie you say because hee should be damned for swearing agaynst his conscience although the thing be neuer so true And what if he sweare not but continue still obstinate in his Iudaisme shal he escape damnation But if after he haue béene instructed in the faith of the holye trinitie or haue had instruction offred him and yet stil contēneth y ● same is not y ● magistrate bound to compell him eyther to acknowledge Christ or to punish him for his obstinarie By which punishment if he be compelled to heare the doctrine which before he dispysed there is hope hée maye bée wonne to beléeue it or if
to commit it For whereas the Tyrant did commaund him to ●…ate of the sacrifized meats and he refused the same the vnder officers of the Tyrant being mooued with vniust compassion as the scripture tearmeth it offered him secretly other fleshe not offered to Idoles and of the which hee was not forbidden by his lawe to eate meaning thereby to deliuer him and to giue out that hee had now satisfied the Prince his commaundement But the good old man considering what other men might thinke of it and what Scandale there might ensue of it answered thus as the Scripture saieth That hee would first b●… sent downe vnto hell before hee would doe it for saieth he it is not conuenient for our age to fayne whereby perchaunce many young men thinking that El●…azarus now of ninetie yeares old hath past ouer to the life of the Gentiles may through my dissimulation be deceiued This therefore is the second point of scandale which S. Paule forbiddeth when hee saieth Keepe your selfe from all shewe of euill The third point of seandale is in respect of the enemy that is when although I doe not induce any man to sin or offend any mans conscience yet I do disedefie the enemy and do that thing wherby the enemy is scandalized and taketh an occasion to blaspheme God his trueth his cause his lawe or the like Whereof S. Paule speaketh to the Corinthians Be you without offence or scandale to the Iewes and also to the Gentiles And in an other place Giuing offence or scandale to no man to the end that our function or ministerie be not blamed thereby And this is that great scandale that Dauid being a King and a Prophet gaue to Gods enemies by his fall and for the which he was sore punished as it appeareth by the words of the scripture which are these And Dauid saide to Nathan the Prophet I haue sinned against my Lord and Nathan said to Dauid God hath taken away thy sinne but yet because thou hast made the enemies of God to blaspheme for this cause the sonne which is borne to thee shal dye the death This also is the scandale that Esdras comming out of Persia towards Ierusalem with his countrimen the Iewes was afraid to giue to the king of Persia by causing him to think basely of God as not able to helpe and defend his seruants if hee should haue asked him aide to conduct himselfe and his companie to Ierusalem for so hee saith I was ashamed to aske of the King aide and horsemen to defend vs from our enemies in the way because we had saide to the king before that the hande or defence of our God is ouer all them that seeke him in honestie that his Empire and strength and 〈◊〉 is vpon all them that forsake him Finally of this scandalement S. Paule and S. Peter also when they said that the worde of God was blasphemed or spoken euil of by the aduersarie parte for the euil life of certaine noughtie Christians Nowe that a Catholike going to the Churches seruice or prayers of them of the contrarie religion cannot but commit this great sinne of scandale in the highest degree that is in all these three pointes before rehearsed it is euident to all the worlde For touching the first point if hee bee a man of any calling his example shal induce some other as wife children friendes seruauntes or the like to doe the same And howsoeuer ●…ee scape himselfe they may bee infected and so damned and their blood layde vppon his soule but much more if hee exhort or constraine any man to doe the same as commonly many Schismatiques doe vse And touching the second point hee cannot b●…t offend many mens consciences for they that doe know him inwardly to bee a Catholike wil thinke him to sinne against his owne conscience and perhaps be induced to doe the like And they who knowe him not must needes presume him to goe of conscience and as a fauourer of that religion and so bee brought to like the better of that religion and the worse of the Catholike by his example And as concerning the third and last point their is no enemy of the Catholike religion in the world whether he be Gentile Turke Iewe or Heretike but that he must both thinke and speake the worst of the saide religion seeing the professors of the same are content for worldly pollicy to dissemble it and leauing their owne Churches to present them selues to the Churches of their open and professed enemies To conclude in this matter of scandale men must not flatter and deceiue them selues thinking that they walke in a net and are not seene when they giue scandale to all the worlde which fixeth his eyes vppon them if not for their owne cause yet for the religions sake God is not to be mocked The godly and learned Father Saint Ambrose did accuse Valentinian the Emperour for giuing a publike scandale to the worde because hee did but permit certaine a●…lters to the Gentiles saying that men would thinke that hee priuely fauoured them And his scholler Saint Augustine thinketh it a scandale if a man shoulde heare a Donatist but speake and he to holde his peace for that the hearer might thinke that if this were euill which the Donatist saieth the other woulde reproue him But if saint Ambrose had seene the Emperour to haue gone to the Panims Temples or S. Augustine the other to frequent the Donatistes Churches what then would they haue saide What excuse then would they haue receiued and this is our verie case The second reason THe second reason saith hée why a Catholike can not yeeld to go to church is because he cānot go without scandale which is a sin more mentioned more forwarned more forbidden more detested more threatened in the scripture then any sinne els mentioned in the same except it be Idolatrie I will not stande to examine the comparison but certaine it is that the wilfull giuing of offence or as hée calleth it newly scandale is in scripture often and greatly detested and verie damnable and abhominable a thing well knowne to them that are wise and learned in the scriptures and therefore néeded not the one quarter of quotations and textes that are cited for it There are also diuers kindes therof and neuer a good of them all Whether it be by inducing other men to sinne by false doctrine or wicked example by offending the weake conscience of our brethrē in a thing of it selfe lawful which our reasoner setteth downe absolutely without regarde of such circumstances If I doe offende an other mans conscience in a thing of it selfe lawfull As though our sauiour Christ might be accused for neglecting the offence of the obstinate Pharisees Or whether it be by giuing occasion to the enemy to blaspheme when a man doeth wickedly which also our Aduocate of the Recusantes doeth set downe so nakedly that he woulde make