with victorie the ambitious with honor the couetous with monie c. scripture diuines to agree with this hellike doctrine God forbidde Wee haue better Schoole maisters then so thankes bee to God Euery good giuing and euery perfect gift is from aboue and commeth downe from the Father of lyghts c. euen to this father of glory must we pray for this gyft of wisedome and reuelation through the knowledge of him that the eyes of our vnderstanding may bee lightened that wee may knowe what the hope is of his calling c. It is a seconde grace and gyfte that I may so speake aboue and beyonde nature and the lyght thereof or eche mans vnderstandyng Your Saint Thomas if you woulde haue consulted but with him would haue tolde you as muche Searche the Scriptures Are yee not therefore deceyued because ye knowe not the Scriptures c. sayth our Sauiour Christ heare him As all poyntes of Diuinitie and Religion woulde bee grounded on Gods booke and the Scriptures not vpon the Philosophers and Rhetorique so especially when there is question of conscience or of doing or not doing thereafter in matters of religion shoulde wee haue recourse vnto that heauenlye 〈◊〉 but yee say The Scripture and Diuines agree to this sentence of the Philosopher when they say That we shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie our of conscience Make this sentence playner and expound it not by the first least both fall out to be very false very pernitious the better of the two make of it what you can is very perplexed darke and doubtfull at least as you set it downe and followe it This may be propounded in lecture among you by him that is your publike reader in the cases of conscience but wee haue seene to muche of your Schoole diuinitie and diuelishe doctrine in conscience to haunte your Romishe lectures or receiue that is therein taught and professed Our senses are better acquainted with the phrases of the Scriptures If this latter sentence be all one with the other and first cited out of Aristotle thē might you haue spared your Philosophers Rhetoricall sentence and rested vpon this whiche yee pretende to take out of the Scripture and Diuines The heauenly Scripture hath no neede of mans wisedome to bee vnderstood sayth one but 〈◊〉 y t reuelation of y t spirit but first I tel you I find not y t words ye set vs downe in those Scriptures whiche yee quote vs in the margin yee tell vs of beeing iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience yee sende vs to 2. Cor. 1. and to 1. Iohn 3. The Apostle in the place ye poynt vs speaketh more particularly of the testimony of a good conscience onely and of his owne that hee had in this worlde his wordes bee these Our reioycing is this the testimony of our conscience that in simplicitie and godly purenes not by fleshly wisedome but by the grace of God we haue had our conuersation in the worlde c. Marke here that Saint Paul had his conuersation in the worlde not directed by his owne vnderstanding As your Philosophical sentence pretendeth not by fleshly wisdome but by the grace of God in simplicitie and godly purenes The testimonie of suche a conscience is a goodly matter and to bee reioyced in in deede let it bee if you will a 〈◊〉 feast c. And this is the oddes here betweene a heathen and a Christian life yet doth not the Apostle in this place saye generally that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience neither yet of him selfe sayth hee so muche speaking of the testimonie of his own conscience Though I deuy not but y t faithful being receiued 〈◊〉 by gods mercy ingraffed into Christ by faith shall haue matter of 〈◊〉 in a good conscience in wel doing euen at the last day But you carry it further The Apostle in another place speaking of his fidelitie in his Ministerie and of a better conscience still then you seeme hereto note sheweth yet a higher Iudge rather and more sharper of sight who will iudge him more thoroughly then according to his owne vnderstanding and conscience Nay as one that durste not iustifie him selfe though his conscience charged him with nothing in his function hee reiecteth that iudgement from himselfe and from all men also as vnfitte and vnsufficient vnto the Lorde himselfe who at his comming will lighten thinges that are hidde in darkenesse and make the counsailes of the hearts manifest The other place yee cite to shewe wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to our conscience is out of Saint Iohns Epistle where thus it is written I must ghesse because yee neyther set downe the wordes nor the verse For thereby that is by louing in deede and truth wee knowe that we are of the truth and shall before him assure our heartes For if our heart condemne vs God is greater then our heart and knoweth all things Beloued if our heart condemne vs not then haue wee boldnesse towarde GOD. Here the Apostle speaketh of that boldnesse and enterance with confidence that the faithfull here haue towardes God by Christ Iesus and by fayth in him of the benefite thereof whiche as by a certaine marke is expressed by true and vnfaygned loue and of the lacke of this full perswasion againe what a losse it is here is nothing spoken of our being iudged at the last day according to our conscience And this is all I finde of this matter in the places of Scripture here alleadged For the Diuines that ye talke of because yee quote vs Augustin alone for all sende vs to two places 〈◊〉 him and the matter is not great what is there saide I referre it to the learned Readers iudgment that is disposed to examine the places You report heere bring in Austin for proofe that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience Where Austin speaketh not of the iudgement of the last day in neither of both the Chapters Consult therefore with them from whome ye tooke these places that they may appoint you fitter for the purpose or you better followe the simplicitie and sinceritie of the sacred Scriptures If yee say Austin name conscience or speake a worde thereof in both the Chapters I graunt you 〈◊〉 you must remember with all that euery thing may not be gathered of euery worde The two places much agree the first yee recite hath relatiō to the latter hee saith not that whiche you speake heere Againe speaking very briefly as for a conclusion of his first booke of Christian doctrine Of this sentence of S. Paul The end of the commaundement is loue out of a pure hearte and of a good conscience and of faith vnfained hee sheweth wherefore the Apostle put in that
clause of a good conscience which hee putteth for hope saith Austin Learne you also saith M. Howlet to adde this worde good to conscience ioyne it with faith and keepe that bonde or knot that the Apostle maketh in this sentence And so if you can apply it to your selfe yee shall not onely haue great matter of reioycing but her Maiestie and the lawes also I doubt not to beare with your conscience and to tender the same as reason and equitie woulde and besides because the same shalbe found to agree with Gods word to be grounded thereon wee shalbee as readie to auowe and allow therof as we now are to 〈◊〉 the same for y t it is so directly contrary to the worde and therefore neither for you to flatter your selues in nor meete for the State to allowe or beare withall Wee doubt nothing but that the testimonie of a good vpright conscience is of great waight and force and to be respected and hearkened vnto So that we remember still 〈◊〉 a pure heart therewith and an vnfained faith which must euer haue the light of Gods worde goe before or accompanie the fame in the faithfull that vnder the colour of conscience other persuation or the rule of reason deceiue vs not The 〈◊〉 of all is I would haue you know conscience a right and distinguish wel betweene a good and a naughtie conscience by the Scriptures For the accord or agreement betweene your two sentences one and the first taken out of Aristotles Rhethorike that is onely good vnto euery man which eche mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good The other as is supposed out of diuinitie that wee shall be iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience Make them you agree as you can I cannot see the agreement betweene them Vnderstanding is one thing and the testimonie of our cōscience is another thing good to euery man nowe and 〈◊〉 at the last day bee two Finally the two sentences as in wordes so in substance and meaning seeme vtterly to disagree I woulde therefore whereas you say the scriptures and diuines agree vnto the Philosophers saying you woulde or coulde haue made the Philosophers saying agree with the scriptures rather whiche though yee shall trauell as yee doe by enticing speache of mans wisedome to performe Yet all is but in vaine the thing will neuer come about Let Philosophie goe therefore and the Philosopher in testing the fountaine rule of good 〈◊〉 vs Christians Let Gods word and law or the holy Scriptures bee our rule there in alone according to that there is one rule and measure for one thing let reason in 〈◊〉 with your S. Thomas if ye will be the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 actions let y t spirit of god be y t beginning of all good in vs that be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and other Augustin a Diuine whome yee 〈◊〉 in this matter saith very well against your first sentence of Philosophie in this sentence of his Faith openeth the way to vnderstanding and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it And againe as is alleadged in your owne decrees All the life of the vnfaithfull is sinne neither can it bee good that is doone without God for where there lacketh the knowledge of the enternall vnchangeable truth there is false vertue euen in the best behauiour and manners And concerning the phrases maner of speaking of Philosophers and diuines howe different they ought to bee thus saith Austin Philosophers speake with wordes at will and in matters very harde to vnderstande feare not the offence of religious eares but we that are Christians and 〈◊〉 haue a lawe to speake after a certaine rule least libertie of speech or wordes breede wicked opinion of those things which are signified thereby And thus muche concerning your two sentences and the agreement thereof wherevpon all the rest that followeth here of this matter seemeth to be grounded Of your propositions thus taken from Philosophers Diuines yee say it followeth that whatsoeuer wee doe contrary to our iudgement and conscience is according to the apostle damnable because wee decerne it to be euill and yet doe it But that which the Apostle heere saith for all your whatsoeuer false glose must bee vnderstood in those things which are lawfull saith your owne D. Thomas in y t very next sentence verse before y t last vpon these wordes which are y t groūd of that that followeth Blessed is hee that condemneth not himselfe in that he alloweth That moderation shoulde yee haue kept but yee doe not for yee say bee the action in it selfe neuer so good and the man that doth it neuer so bad as seemeth for you name vs a Gentile or Heathen man and to confesse there is messias yet because it seemed naught in his iudgement and conscience therefore to him shall it be accounted a damnable sinne at the last day Heereby it appeareth yee holde that at the last day the testimonie of a 〈◊〉 iudgement and naughtie conscience euen of an Heathen shalbe admitted to cleere him from euill and to condemne him for doing good or that any man shalbe damned at the day for acknowledging there is a Messias against his wicked iudgement and conscience at least will there not bee other matters sufficient and I nowe thinke you to condemne such men for but that such cases and causes as these vnwonted and vnmentioned in the Scriptures shoulde after they bee by your heades deuised and moued then also be alleadged This is prophane and vaine babbling and brawling which breedeth questions rather then godlye edifiyng which is by faith which thing the holy Apostle S. Paule so carefully warneth his schollers Timothie and Titus in many places to take heede of to auoide they may beseeme your scholding disputes your subttle schooles and readinges they beseeme not her maiesties eares they agree not with the diuinitie schooles of the holy Ghoste Did your testimonies of Scriptures and Diuines you set vs downe teathe you this or whence had you it shall wee be iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience be it good bee it bad must wee bee iudged by that onely Shall it bee now good and then good and so alwayes good to the Gentile to denie the Messias because his vnderstanding iudgemēt and conscience telleth it him to bee good c. This is a maruellous and strange Paradoxe the foundation building thereon are muche alike Is there no difference nor oddes Before I further examine the matter you tell vs Let mee a litle consider howe you handle the holy Scripture with your foule handes or our euill fauoured clawes and how vntowardly you alleadge your testimonies still because wee decerne it to bee euill and yet doe it Yee quote vs for it Rom. 14. though yee name no verse yet your words seeme to sende vs to the last verse of the Chapter which hangeth on the wordes before are a reason
dealing both of the state and them let vs heare what your Authour and friende in this Treatise ye present to her Maiestie saieth hereof When a Catholike doth come before the Commissioners there is nothing asked of him but when hee was at Church and if he will promise to goe to Church commonly they accompt him a sufficient conformable man that is to haue yeelded sufficiently vnto them Here is rigorous execution Is there not I pray you here is great extremitie cause hatefully and contemptuously to quote in your margēt M. Couper M Elmer Ah M. Howlet what shoulde I say God giue you his grace and make you an honest man Againe sediciously and deuilishly comparing the high Priests and Magistrats of Iurie with this state and likening their proceeding to a sweete charme Thus he writeth in text and margent What if the high Priestes and Magistrates shoulde haue saide vnto them well we are content that you liue with your conscience so you kepe it to your selues and trouble not the state so that you will for obedience sake some time come to our Synagogues shewing your selues comformable men to our proceedings Nay what if they shold haue said some of you also for outward shew keeping alwaies your cōsciēces to your selues must flee this odious name of Christians seeme to cōmunicate now thē with vs in our sacrifices ceremonies we are cōtēt also that som of you shalbe our officers iustices of peace coūsellers the like so that you will somtimes for orders sake punish some of those indiscret fellows of your religiō which can not be contēted to keep their cōsciences to thēselues so you wil also giue some prety sharpe charge in your circuites sessiōs assēblies alwais keping your cōsciēces to your selues if some of you also wil somtimes step vp into the pulpet and speake three or foure earnest words against this religion it shalbe very gratful vnto vs especially if you wil affirme it with an othe which wee haue deuised for y e same purpose this doing we assure you that you shall liue quietly to your own cōsciēces we shal accoūt you for good subiects If I say y e Magistrats of Iury at that time shold haue giuē to the apostls other christiās this sweet charme do you think that they cold haue abidē to heare it al out whose hearts did rise swel at two words only that they spoke for the intreating of them to holde their peace Heere is good gentle stuffe But sweet charmes terrible tempests such persecution as neuer was felt nor hearde tell of in Englād before Her royall Maiestie her vpright laws against popery other such false religiōs her graue wise godly Counsellors y e ministers of her Maiesties Iaws with other of the state here neither feare nor regarde your false accusations nor your impudent slanders they can not reach to come nere thē they pitie rather your wāt of discrettō modestie y t I say no more You can not accuse or charge her 〈◊〉 Iaws or y e ministers therof but you touch her honour too nere who giueth her royall assent to all lawes here made her Maiesties Iawes counsellors ministers w t better accord draw all in one line one way then you seeme to allow or like of That her maiestie in y t sight of all y e world as you confesse hath shewed you so great mercy clemency that doeth but encrease your debt dutie and aggrauate your fault y e more who so vnkindly vnnaturally recompence her highnesse great goodnes by withdrawing your selues from y e alleagians obedience which you owe to God her Maiestie which shee requireth also at your handes duty bindeth you to perfourme you pay couer all w t faire flattering wordes dissimulation nothing else commeth from you to her Maiestie It hath bin of her Maiesties godly inclination and good nature not of your deserts y t 〈◊〉 hath so oftē pardoned so long forborne you She hath not nor doth not ouerthrow nor alter her good laws prouided against poperie and treason If you be not too too obstinate miserable let former clemency moue you to amende els take things as they fall out her Maiesties laws the penalties thereof stand not for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Abuse not your self other M. Howlet To sean pollitique lawes y e execution therof is not our profession yours I meane as I take it mine Their godly wisedomes y t make execute y t lawes ye now plaine of are aboue our reach you take too much vpō you being a priuate man not of counsel of making these lawes so vndutifully to checke cōtroule y e same you might like a good obedient subiect take heede of incurring the penalty consider by y e execution therof y t the end was to represse popery massing c. If you will not heare my counsell you might heare your owne fellowe in his discourse or your selfe in y e latter ende of the discourse which for y e most part thereof is twise set down for failing That the catholike Church hath alwaies taught her childrē that how hardly so euer their prince shold deale with them yet are they boūd to beare it patiently to obey him for consciēce sake as substitute of God placed in that roome for their punishmēt if they rule not wel w e 〈◊〉 not to the subiect to iudge of You loue to tel what y e catholik church 〈◊〉 therby shew y t y e Popish church is not y t true catholike church you come not frō the Pope of Rome hither w t this lesson you haue another cōmission There was little space of time betweene the ariual of the Italian Romish souldiers in Ireland and the flight hither of such spirituall birdes 〈◊〉 the Pope as you are your chalenges and bookes were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this treatise as fast as mightbe afterward published iwis you might if it so pleasd you aforde as much reuerēce in truth to her 〈◊〉 the ciuill state vnder God in gouerning y e cōmon welth outwardly as you doe in the false Hier archie to your Popish 〈◊〉 c. with commanding authoritie laying vpon 〈◊〉 obedience with necessitie Your malapert importunitie hath drawen and 〈◊〉 mee of duty zeale to speake thus farre for clearing defence of her maiesties wholsome iawes the execution thereof by her ministers rather then y t any need required the same except it be in respect of y e simpler sort And yet M. Howlet let me be bold to tell you that euen in this place where you so inueighe agaynst the terreur of lawes against your religion yee iustifie greatly the moderation and equitie of her Maiesties lawes and cannot denie but there hath been to great mildenesse vsed towards you in respect of the naughtines of your religion thus you say
large entreate of Christian libertie the consciences of the faithfull as he doth in the other place of maister Caluin cited by you before and by this your misdealing doe wee see how necessary it was often and much to beate in that point In summe we say spirituall libertie in Christe and Politike subiection to Magistrates and Supertours may and doe very well agree and both are taught vs in the Scriptures and haue their place of practise From slaundering of these men that are dead commeth M. Howlet to those that are aliue Whose names hee quoteth downe in his margin mentioning a writing made in the dayes of Queene Marie which he doth but touche and I thinke needelesse to stay thereon considering the thinge being aforetime obtected by M. Harding hath been fully answered vnto by y e reuerend father of blessed memory Maister Iewell late Bishop of Sarisburie as is that of maister Luther before I perceiue that M. Howlet goeth all by report and heare say and seeketh to winne grace by 〈◊〉 other And where wisemen are wont diligently to respect circumstances in all doings he such is his humor throughout his Epistle careth neither what when nor in whom he reprooue so he may finde somwhat to carpe at in any professours of the Gospell I woulde M. Howlet for his owne sake were but so faithfull a seruant of God and her Maiestie and did but halfe so vprightly walke in his calling in zelously aduauncing the Gospell of Christe and dutifully obeying our Soueraigne as the men he nameth to their great commendation in singular modestie and vpright conscience at this day trauell to doe with no small fruite to the Churche and people of God among vs howe euer he obiect old matters to so worthy fathers M. howlets conclusion of this part of charging master Wickliffe mastar Luther master Caluin and the rest is that the Catholike Churche vtterly condemneth all these errours and teacheth her children otherwise and the contrary Nowe I aske M. Howlet if he exempt not the consciences of y t faithfull from Princes lawes and the power of all men with master Luther master Caluin how it commeth to passe that he and his felowes exempt themselues from her Maiesties obedience vnder pretence only of conscience as euen in the leafe before this we haue in hand in the name of y t 〈◊〉 he craueth pardon at her Maiesties hands for not yeelding to such conformitie in matters of religion as is demaunded at their hands which they cannot doe but by offence of their cōsciences c. And the end of all in him his authour is y t her Maiestie must take their disobedience refusall of conformitie for a ful satisfaction because they alleadge conscience Nowe if this among other bee an errour condemned by the Catholike Churche that the consciences of y t faithfull be exempted from the power of all men c. Why doe you being Catholikes as yee say follow it Why doe you make that your pretence Why doe you dwell therein If Princes lawes binde subiects to obedience in conscience so as they may not be exempted for their consciences but y t they must obey them as God himselfe whose roome they possesse and that vnder paine of mortall sinne and eternall damnation how hardly soeuer their Princes deale with thē in their gouernment c. Why learne you not that lesson Why reforme you not your consciences by Gods word that God and her Maiestie may haue due obedience of her Subiects which shee requireth and no more without complaining murmuring this bitter accusing ye tel her Maiestie of errors your selues run into thē headlong Ye wil by no meanes with Luther haue Christians free exempted from Princes lawes no not in their conseiences and yet by meanes of conscience you will exempt your selues what shoulde I say like not that in your selues yee condemne in other The difference gentle Reader betweene vs and them is as thou mayest perceiue that wee exempt mens consciences from all mortall men to giue them to God aboue alone to be guided by his holy worde no other wise which in deede her maiestie alloweth well of slaunder these fellowes what they can herein for her title of supreme gouernour ouer her subiects They without any warrant of Gods worde exempt not conscience but pretended or that they call conscience from dutifulnes to God and their lawfull Prince and Soueraigne in God to giue it to the Pope induced therto because they see her Maiestie to leaue mens consciences free vntouched hauing a tender care great respect therof Where conscience is in deed though it be but weake according to the doctrine of y t Scriptures Gospell where shee learned this not frō popery Pope to whose supreme authoritie grounded vpon suppositiōs false principles these coūterfeited Catholiks haue by reconcilement and oth betaken thēselues according to their rottē religion so defrauding God her Maiestie of their due abusing their Soueraigne authoritie themselues greatly After this commeth M. Howlet to note our demeanour heere passing other as hee saith hee setteth vs downe at large a matter doone the last Sommer at Stamforde and dwelling therin he reprooueth both the doctrine of certaine Preachers there and their demeanour also whereof he maketh no small a doe seditious pretendeth he was the doctrine there taught seditious was the vsage and yet I trowe nothing like to that of theirs in the North in Irelande nor that which I haue described before It is happy God made not him the Prince of this lande nor any of the State otherwise I perceiue the poore men had beene trounced he giueth sentence as though the matter were his owne when nothing was there doone against him and as for her Maiestie and the State they call not for his help in the gouernment heere But I see M. Howlet is still like himselfe that is past shame els woulde he haue blushed to haue spoken so vntruly of a matter so lately doone and so publikely in the face of all the worlde but let vs see what hee saith first he entreth into this matter to quitte as hee speaketh the Puritan that hath so infamed the Catholiks Therefore he thinketh good to diffame him againe Hee hath slaundered you M. Howlet with a matter in trouth as wee haue seene And you cannot forget an iniurie if it were one yee must needes bee quite with the Puritan Alas poore Puritan but it is happie your handes bee bound that yee can doe him no more harme haue you not powred out your spight enough against him before to be quitte with him You play as the Dogge doth that when a stone is flung at him runneth after the stone and for reuenge catcheth the same in his mouth When yee can finde no more matter in the man to raile vpon you immagine he sendeth out Preachers yee call them at Stamforde his Preachers Preachers at this day the more is the pitie
your pleasures without good warrant or ground and so may be reduced to cōformitie prescribed by superiours Your owne S. Thomas in his summe saith Q. 79. art 13. that conscience is no speciall facultie or power of the soule because it may bee laide away which the other cannot but bee that as it wil be A corrupt conscience such as yours is may and ought to bee laide away The reasons in your treatise as in place we finde deale little or nothing to proue the contrary to this I tell you or deale as you doe very hollowly being grounded altogether vpon supposition which not grounded on Gods truth in matters of Religion is a rotten post for conscience to leane vpon Trye your consciences in religion by right iudgemēt and good vnderstanding taken out of Gods booke runne not vpon false suppositions and we shalbe soone at an ende I still maruell M. Howlet how you can exempt your cōsciences from 〈◊〉 and so from her 〈◊〉 that before condemned these sentences as errours That the consciences of the faithfull are exempted from the power of all men that Chistians are fre and exempted from all Princes lawes as touching their consciences c. For you admit this exposition of the former sentence in saying that Caluin and Luther holde therein one doctrine whereof I haue spokē in his place The matter is that your Secondary faith and alleageance sworne vnto her Highnesse as to the sub stitute of God thus yee speake is at the Popes pleasure broken and nowe discharged of that faith by his warrant and the same bestowed vpon him and such as hee wyll appoint without good warrant from God or her Maiestie In the meane while we will take as graunted by you this Maxime or supposition That conscience dependeth of iudgement vnderstanding and not of affect will albeit in your case this wholy raignethin you therefore seemeth not be conscience But because pretended conscience is the grounde of these mens whole matter and the only shift of excuse that both M Howlet and his authour haue to cloke their disobedience withal let mee be bold with thee gentle Reader somewhat at large to vnfolde some parte of their Popish 〈◊〉 in this case of conscience which that I may the better doe I will first set downe some of both their wordes agreeing in this point together Then examining in generall the popish doctrine whereon they grounde themselues without all Scripture yea contrary to Scripture common reason and hon estie also as the same is deliuered vnto vs in their bookes by the principall 〈◊〉 of their religion I will shewe howe godlesly and howe hollowly they may be found to speake write and thinke in the whole enough in my opinion to bring their religion into vtter 〈◊〉 detestation and hatred for broching vs such abhominable abhominations Afterwarde God willing returning to M. Howlets wordes againe and comparing them with the doctrine of the Scripture will I so much as I shall thinke needefull answere the same particularly Thus writeth M. Howlet of this matter heere at large 12 Now because as the Philosopher saith that is onely good vnto euery man which ech mans vnderstanding tel leth him to be good vnto the which the Scripture and 〈◊〉 agree when they say that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience 〈◊〉 followeth that what soeuer wee doe contrary to our iudgement and conscience is according to the Apostle damnable Because wee decerne it to bee euill and yet doe it So that howe good soeuer the action in it selfe were as for example if a Gentile shoulde for feare say or sweare that there were a Messias yet vnto the doer it should be a damnable sinne because it seemed naught in his iudgement and conscience and therefore to him it shall bee so accounted at the last day Which thing hath made all good men from time to time to stande very scrupulously in defence of their conscience and not to commit any thinge against the sentence and approbation of the same All Princes also Potentates of the woorlde haue abstained from the beginning for the very same consideration from enforcing men to Actes against their consciences especially in religion as the histories both before Christe and since doo declare And amongest the very Turkes at this day no man is compelled to doe any act of their religion except he renonuce first his owne And in the Indies and other farre partes of the worlde where infinite Infidels are vnder the gouernemente of Christian Princes it was neuer yet practised nor euer thought lawfull by the Catholike Churche that suche men shoulde bee inforced to any one acte of our religion And the reason is for that if the doing of such actes shoulde 〈◊〉 sinne vnto the doers because they doe them against their conscience then muste needes the inforcement of suche Actes be muche more greeuous and damnable sinne to the inforcers Mary notwithstanding this when a man hath receiued once the Christian Catholike religion and will by new deuises and singularitie corrupte the same by running out and makinge dissention in Christe his bodie as all Heretikes doe then for the conseruation of vnitie in the Church and sor restraint of this mans furye and pride the Churche hath alwayes from the beginning allowed that the Ciuill Magistrate shoulde recalle suche a fellowe by temporall punishment to the vnitie of the whole bodie againe as all the holy Fathers write to bee most necessarie especially suche as hadde most to doe with suche men as Cyprian Ierome Optatus Augustine Leo Gregorie and Bernarde And Saint Austin in diuers places recalleth backe againe his opinion whiche hee sometimes helde to the contrary So that wee keeping still our olde religion and hauing not gone out from the Protestantes but they from vs wee cannot bee enforced by any iustice to doe any acte of their religion HEnce yee gather y t because ye alleadge your conscience in this cause of yours Therfore neither may ye do there against vnder paine of damnatiō neither be enforced to doe otherwise then you doe vnder like paine to the enforcers and because yee sawe you shoulde be excepted vpon two wayes yee prouide answere for the same first If it bee alleadged against you as is by vs very truly alleadged that the thing yee are called vnto is godly honest and good and seemely to bee yeelded vnto and therefore no reason you shoulde in this case bee left to your pretended conscience to followe that whiche is euill but that you shoulde giue ouer and take a newe course Yee affirme howe good soeuer the action in it selfe bee whervnto yee are called yet the yeelding is damnable sinne to the doer because it seemeth naught in his iudgement and conscience and therefore to him it shall bee so accounted at the last day So he must bee left to his
pretended consicence in very bad thinges Heereto yee bring so had yee neede yet all will not serue the examples of all Princes and Potentates of the worlde before Christe and since and of the very Turkes themselues and other Infidels To shewe that her Maiestie and the State deale more cruelly by Lawe heere with you then any other State bee they neuer so barbarous doe with their people and that this will bee damnable vnto them You are in great and high matters you had neede remember your selfe and you neede to haue beene beter acquainted with Kinges and Princes Estates their affaires then may be thought you be or els haue let this far fet stuff alone This geare beseemeth you your spirit wel M. Howlet and that to with her Maiestie her selfe doth it not Next if any testimonies and examples of practise bee alleadged against you of temporall punishment you turne them all ouer in saying such proceeding was against Heretikes onely which make dissention in Christ his bodie And although you prooue not the Papists to be out of that number but that they may iustly bee counted Heretikes as they bee in deede and therefore by your owne doctrine of the Princes and States that iustly so take them to be recalled and inforced by temporall punishment or restrained at the least yet to helpe your selfe as you may as though popery were the true and right Christian religion ye suppose that you haue no whit swarued from the truth but that we whom yee call Protestants haue gone from you set vp a newe religion as though we what shoulde I say wee her Maiestie the state professed or called you to any other than to Iesus Christe onely true and most auncient religion comprised and expressed in the holy scriptures or from that The end of all 〈◊〉 y t you must still doe as ye now do in abstayning from the Churche assemblies c. And by no iustice be inforced to the contrary For that if your 〈◊〉 conscience be persuaded herein ye may not doe against that though it be euill Nowe thus writeth M. Howlets authour heereof in the latter ende of the nienth reason of his treatise Neither sufficeth it to say Those suppositions are false that there are not such thinges committed against God at the Protestantes Churches and seruices for howsoeuer that bee whereof I dispute not nowe yet I being in my hearte of another religion must needs thinke not onely them but also all other religions what soeuer to commit same as I knowe they also thinke of mine 〈◊〉 how good and holy soeuer they were yea if they were angels yet shoulde I be condemned for going amongst them for that in my sight iudgement conscience by which only I must bee iudged they must needes seeme enimies to God being of the contrary religion By this it may appeare howe greeuously they sinne dayly in England and cause other to sinne with them whiche compell men by terrour to doe actes of religion against their consciences As to take othes receiue Sacraments goe to Churches the like which being done as I haue saide with repugnant consciences is horrible mortall sinne as hath byn alreadie prooued and consequently damnable both to the doers and inforcers ther of And again in the same ix reason speaking of the consciences of Infidels and Heretikes amongest many thinges hee thus writeth generally of all sortes of men If there bee no man either so foolish or impious in the world but must needes think that one only religion amongest Christians is true and all other false And if euery man which hath any religion and is resolued therin must needs presuppose this onely truth to bee in his own religion then it followeth necessarily that hee must likewise persuade him selfe that all other religions besides his owne are false and erronious and consequently all assemblies Conuenticles and publike Actes of the same to bee wicked damnable dishonourable to God contumelious to Christe and therefore to his conscience which thinketh so detestable And in another place before his reasons agreeing yet more fully plaine ly with M. How let Surely as I am now minded I woulde not for tenne thousand worldes compel a Iew to sweare that there were a blessed Trinitie For albeit the thinge bee neuer so true yet shoulde hee bee damned for swearing against his conscience and for compelling him to commit so haynous and greeuous a sinne c. I may heere charge these men that they speake of conscience very doubtfully and diuersly yea wickedly and dangerously in that they make no better distinction betweene truth and falshood good and bad a right and a wrong conscience or erronious as these men speake the resolution of God in men for their doinges and mens false persuasions reasons and resolution to common lower mens fansies and imaginations Conscience as the very worde importeth is a knowlege in vs with an addition or to speake plainer if I can it is an inward sense or feeling of god his iudgement cōcurring w t our knowledge Whereof ariseth this the testimonie of conscience or our conscience bearing vs witnesse c. Of which cōscience what force it hath to take away all excuse from men before God the Apostle disputeth Rom 2. If yee like not this I say yee shall finde that some of your owne writers take conscience doublie or two wayes sometime for that part or power of the minde that is alwayes contrary to vice and euill or alwayes accompaning that parte and then it is euer right Sometime is conscience taken for an applying of our knowledge to some action and so is it not a qualitie but an action And thus is it not alwayes good or right say they But for the purpose and matter wee haue in hand and for our instruction and guiding Besides that the very woorde and the Etymologie or discription thereof teacheth vs that conscience differeth from opinion immagination fancie vaine conceipt c. As beeing a more high and heauenly gift especiall when it is directed by God his holy worde and Spirite Wee haue further to marke the generall doctrine of the holy Ghoste set vs downe in the scriptures in vsing to our benefit or abusing to our hurt euen Gods good creatures and the note hee giueth of the force of conscience therin vnto the pure al things are pure but vnto them that are defiled vnbeleeuing is nothing pure But euen their mindes and consciences are defiled saith the Apostle and in particular he saith further That in the latter times some shall departe from the fayth and shall giue heede vnto spirites of errours and doctrines of diuelles which speake lies through hypocrisie and haue their consciences burned with an hot iron or be past feeling as hee saith elswhere And in an other place yet some hauing put away good conscience as concerning fayth haue made Shipwracke And
a course in one parte that you quite leaue out the two other I wot not well howe it will agree with the Rhetorike Schooles about you nor what libertie you Orators nowe a dayes take to your selues and therefore I will leaue it sauing that mee thinkes your friende M. Howlet who is most like to bee the Poste or Messenger ye talke of might haue forborne the printing of an vnperfect worke or haue beene better aduised then to haue Dedicated the same at least to such a Personage as is her Maiestie But we might stay well enough for the other two partes this point to confirme or obstinate and poyson rather her Maicsties subiectes was so necessarie that it was to bee hastened This was the Resolution of your wise heades Yee are a Societie I must suppose all is done by consent Besides I see M. Howlet in his Epistle Dedicatorie to her Maiestie hath entred into the seconde parte of his fellowes Diuision as the same is reported vnto vs in the excuse that is made in the latter ende of the booke for though he haue omitted to treat of Instant and feruent Prayer to Almightie God very necessarie for all Christians and namely for him and his felowes that they may doe better then they doe he taketh vpō him bolde recourse vnto the Queenes Maiestie for tolleration in their corrupte religion and he is busie with his Authours Motiues c. which is the seconde promised parte It had beene better he had been more occupied in that hee hath left out of this seconde part of the Diuision and to haue exhorted his Catholiks to obediēce to her maiesty our most dread soueraine This had beene a very necessarie point in deede for such of his secte as are here giuen to sedition and rebellion among vs. Once while it is sayde that the Authour meaneth to this pointe to exhorte many mischiefes by that ūde there while are among vs wrought God amende them or cut them more short I will not charge M. Howlet heere with iniurie doyng in preuenting his fellowe because it is likely all is done by compact agreement among them It may seeme as thinges fall out that all this excuse of omitting the two latter partes is but a flourishe and the promise but a meere pretence If health and leasure shall permit he promiseth to finishe the rest but I am hardely perswaded that his health and leasure will in these dayes serue him to perfourme so good an office being so directly contrarie to the profession of their Popish religion seeing especially it hath lost so good a place as to haue gone first or to haue been the foundation of the Supplication to her Maiestie A great oportunitie and occasion lost But least I seeme to dispayre of them I pray God this peece of true obedience to her Maiestie may bee thought of and wrote of by these hot Catholikes But y t it may bee done with better conscience more stedfastnes then hee that in Latin wrote of true obediēce in her maiesties fathers dayes the most famous renoumed prince of blessed memory K. Henrye the eight or he y t set the preface before it who both of thē when time afterwarde serued shamelessy reuoked that they had done and returning to their vomite most cruelly persecuted Gods people their brethrē for in y t matter y t they had before professed them selues and published to the worlde they shewed themselues without all conscience time seruers onely c. If to seeke to disturbe and molest by Rebellion their Lords and Princes be the custome of Heretikes and Sectaries of our time then with vs are the Papistes such here who followe that trade with her Maiestie and this State right If Subiectes bee bounde patiently to beare and to obey howe hardely so euer their Princes shall deale with them vnder payne of deadly sinne and damnation as these men in fayre wordes will seeme to professe howe cōmes it then to passe they take vp the sword against their our noble Queene Elizabeth Again if English men owe true obedience to her Maiestie for consciēce sake euen as to God himself why do not papistes render it then If it appertaine not to subiectes to iudge whether their Princes rule well or not as they say why iudge they the whole matter so violently against her Maiestie Why do other iustifie the same by wryting yea why procure they their Popes most traiterous bulles to be published and sent ouer hither why come they not home and liue like quiet Subiectes words are winde all is but words wind Let thē declame as lōg as loudlie as they will hardly wil they be euer able to wash away this blot Now come I to the authours necessarie supposition as he calleth it and the two sortes of Catholikes that hee nameth where he deuideth badly still for he telleth vs There are to sortes of Catholikes in England And when he hath done maketh vs three before he come to his Reasons One sorte for the iustifiyng of whom he wrote his Treatise Another sorte for the reforming of whom hee wrote the same And the third sort of very bad Catholikes whom he accounteth damned men in this life So where he telleth vs there are here two sorts of Catholikes we finde three as we find but one parte of his treatise where he promised three this is scholasticall and Orator like with these men Let vs heare what he sayth But first of all is to be noted that my reasons to the end they may conuince are to be supposed to proceede from a catholike minde that is from a man which in his conscience is throughly petsuaded that onely the catholike Romane religion is trueth and that all other newe doctrines and religions are false religions as all newe Gods are false Gods c. First your supposition is ambiguous doubtfull and captious by reason you do not plainely and particularly enough expresse in the first part what the Catholike Romane religion is which you say is onely trueth when you oppose all other doctrines and religions which you say are false to the Romane religion you call them newe So as some man might thinke ye talked in the first parte of y e true christian religion groūded vpon the doctrine of the prophets and Apostles and comprised in the canonicall Scriptures of Gods holy Byble which indeede is the onely Truth and the old religion And this is the very same her maiestie and we her subiects heere professe in the church of england and is elsewhere professed by those that are termed Gospellers Protestants c whom you yet account and call heretikes and their religion A newe doctrine and religion Wee call this our religion not in captious and doubtefull terme the Catholike Romane religion or which we might with as muche right as you do the Catholike English religion but simply and plainly of the Authours Gods and Christs true religion Or if you wil insteede of
such commoditie reaped as is there to bee had it be answered among the rest bee the ende of the commaundement of the exaction and of the going to church what haue you to say there against Yf the Cōmissioners deale not onely equally but very mildely and courteously without too farre racking mens consciences and hoping that in exercises of religion and matters apperteining to God men will not play the hypocrites but haue farder respect then to make it an eye seruice outwardly to satisfie and please the worlde and knowing that comming to church they shall heare and finde better matter of instruction and so learne their dutie towardes G O D and their Prince they moue suche as by you are peruerted to come to churche what cause haue you or they to make such Tragicall adoe vpon this vpright and fauourable proceeding To playne of the seueritie and suche cruell extremitie of this State as neuer was hearde of in England before c. This confession of your owne mouth greatly condemneth you As you finde your owne religion to be but hypocrisie so imagine you of the religion here professed but amisse For her Maiestie and the lawes seeke not to make men hypocrites they delight in no such their meaning is to haue men religious to God warde and thereto tende their commaundements in this behalfe c. If you make going to churche heere to bee a renouncing of Popery and of your pretended catholike religion as you say it is we graunte and we wish as many as goe to church to leaue halting on both sides or dissembling to cast away that corrupt religion and all superstition out of their heartes to take a newe and better course and to testifie by that meanes and all other as they may their religious and honest minds to Godwarde the worlde which is so farre of that wee thinke too bee hurtfull vnto them as wee iudge it a singular benefits if they can consider thereof accordingly Where on the contrary part we iudge their not going to church or their going with another minde then wee haue expressed not only to bee to themselues dangerously hurtful and to others but impious also and wicked before God The other and seconde proofe yee take from those of your owne side that are heere indurance which being many in number and of long time suffering imprisonment for this onely thing as yee say doe make abstaining from church to bee a proper and peculiar signe of a true Catholike For what doth make a thing to be a proper and peculiar signe but the iudgement and opinion of men Heereto you adioyne your example of the Tauerne bushe to be the signe of wine wee answere the similitude is vnapt and vnlikely that is taken from signes and tokens of ciuill thinges appertaining to the vse of this life which are in mens power and will to dispose and order at their pleasure where it is otherwise in cases of Gods true religion for therein men haue not that libertie but must take the holy signes thereof from the holy God But you adde also your former example brought with you out of Italie of a Iewes yellowe Bonnet and ye fetche vs a thirde out of Turkie for to knowe a Turke and his profession by his yellowe Torbant which and all the like are vnseemely and vnfitt to match in this case with the true religion of Iesus Christ. Let then the worlde or men in ciuill and outwarde matters of this life make their representations and signes as they will let the like serue if yee will among the Iewes the Turkes In fidels Papistes Whose religion is pleasurable a will worship and consisting for the most part in ceremonies and deuises inuented by men Let them deuise and haue their proper and peculiar signes markes cognisances and badges to bee knowne by let vs abstaine from the same Let vs content our selues with those that we haue receiued from the Authour of our Religion Let vs religiously frequent and vse the same When our Sauiour Christ asketh whence the Baptisme of Iohn was whether from heauen or from men He noteth fitly the diuerse fountaines and beginning of signes in religiō The example of wearing a garlande in the Primitiue Church wherewith out of Tertulian yee amplifie the matter perteyneth as litle to the purpose as the rest For it was heathenishly wickedly made by the heathen a signe to distinguish them by and to represent their heathenish religion to the dammage of Christians and true Christian religion marke that wee speake still of publike religious signes not of other in outwarde ciuill thinges and for mens particular vses wherein men haue more libertie then in Gods religion and seruice prophane or ciuill matters wee here deale not with That such thinges haue beene and are from time to time done by the diuell and wicked men in wicked religion is not harde to be founde and that true Christians haue to abstaine from such markes and proper signes of superstitious and naughtie religion as for example frō your Popish ceremonies at this day may well and fitly bee prooued hereby and farder can ye not stretche it vnlesse ye coulde proue the haunting of holye Churche assemblies here first and principally to proceede from men or from the diuell Which you shall neuer be able to doe God himselfe being the Authour and the same being sufficiently grounded in his holie worde Make you and your compagnions of going to Churche here what you will and of abstayning there from We make thereof as God and his worde doe and no more If for your contempt of God her Maiestie and her wholsome lawes made for the abolishing of superstition and idolatrie ye suffer any thing Thanke your selues that so oppose your selues Blame 〈◊〉 God her Maiestie nor the State here therefore If for this onely thing your men suffer that they goe not to Church then suffer they not belike for defence of the Popes supremacie nor other pointes of Poperie if they doe then is it not for abstayning from Church onely which in deede is but a late taken vp scrupulositie among the moste of you yet let all marke and obserue that ye here affirme and giue vs that the onely thing Papistes suffer for here in Englande is for not going to Churche or abstaining therefrom A worthy cause to stande with the Prince and State in if all be well weighed The vanitie of the three next Reasons of Schisme participation and dissimulation do I nothing doubt but that euery Christian can easily espie and answere the same That therefore which hath been sayde before being well weighed I shall neede the lesse to tarrie thereupon If this discourser coulde as easily proue it to be Schisme to haunt our Churches vs to be Heretikes and those hollowe hearted that hauing afore time in the dayes of ignoraunce been of their Popish religion nowe haunt our Churches which wee yet hope well they doe of synceritie of heart If I say hee coulde as easily
is a great blocke in your waye that you can neuer prayse your duetifulnesse to her Maiestie but you must euer with all craue pardon for your vndutifulnesse in the greatest matters as you here doe for not leauing Pope and Poperie and conforming your selues to religion c. And yet yee doe the same cunningly and vnder couerte of conscience forsooth grounded on the reasons that are in the treatise which must stande in steade of al satisfaction to her Maiestie where-of in place God willing wee shall see I am sorie I am enforced to followe and examine your wordes I woulde there had been some grounded matter for I am afraide as I wearie my selfe so doe I some wise and discreete readers but I must craue pardon in respecte of other that are more simple and rude who it were pitte shoulde be by glosing seduced or deceiued 8 ANd that the Catholike religion in generall for I medle with no mans particular fact is vniustly touched by any sect of our time for teaching disobedience or rebellion against their princes it may appeare plainely by the different doctrine which eche part deliuereth vnto his followers First Iohn Wikliffe one of their progenitours teacheth That a Prince if he rule euil or fall into mortal sinne is no lōger Prince but that his subiectes may ryse against him punish him at their pleasures Secōdly Mar. Luther following the same steppes teacheth That Chistians are free and exempted from all Princes lawes Whereof followed immediatly that famous rebellion of the countrey men againste their Lordes in Germanye in the yeere 1525. and in the same two hundred thousande slaine in one day Thirdly Iohn 〈◊〉 not dissenting from the rest teacheth That princes lawes binde not subiectes to obedience in conscience but onely for externall and temporal respect Wherof enseweth that if by any occasion this externall feare for the which only the subiect obeyeth be taken away as when he were able to make his partie so strong as he feared not his Prince then he should not sinne in rebelling against him And in another place holding plainely the doctrine of Luther he sayth That the consciences of the faythfull are exempted from the power of all men by reason of the liberty geuen them by Christ. Lastly the writing against the regiment of women in Queene Maries time for that the gouernment then liked them not all men can remember Which errours all the Catholike Church vtterly condemneth teaching her children together with the Apostle true obedience to their Princes for Conscience sake euen as vnto God him selfe whose roome they doe possesse and to whom they are bounde vnder the paine of mortall sinne eternal damnation patiently to obey how hardly so euer they deale with them in their gouernment otherwise By the which your Maiestie may perceyue howe falsly the Catholike religion is charged by her enemies of the contrary crime 9 Besides this if your Highnesse wisedome shall but enter into a litle consideration of the demeanour of Catholikes and of other of newer religions towardes their Princes this day in Europe it shall easyly appeare whiche of them are of the quieter spirites and milder in obedience I will not make mention of greater matters but onely to quite this aforesaide Puritane which so falsely hath infamed vs I will set downe here certaine propositions gathered out of two sermons of two of his preachers by a minister present there in Stamforde at the generall fast this last Sommer Which fast being prohibited with the preachings at the same by the expresse letters of the Lorde Superintendent of Lincolne bearing date the 5. of September to the Alderman and Comburgeses of the said Towne the preachers would not obey but stepping vp into the pulpit vttered as followeth 1. In such actions as may further the publique fast flesh and blood must not be called to counsell to doe the Lordes commaundement but they must be vndertakē without such warrant 2. The religion that Ionas preached did not as ours now doth depend and hange vpon Actes of Parliament For we when we go about such actions as God is to be glorified in 〈◊〉 first inquire whether there be any acte of Parliament to warrant our doings or no. 3 It is the manner of her officers and Counsellers now 〈◊〉 dayes to reforme matters by acts of Parliament and by pollices and not by Ionas his preachings 4 Her Counsellers neuer inquire what newes at Poules sermō but what reports are abroad that if any disliking thing should come to the Kings 〈◊〉 they might stop it from thence 1. He is of no spirite that will not promote that whiche God commandeth though all Edictes be contrary for we must not obey fleshe and blood 2. They that are ruled by the Edictes of men will change their religion with the Prince and they are of no conscience though they be neuer so much grounded in diuinitie 3. What if nether the Queene Counsell nor Bishoppe haue been present at the Fast nor allowed thereof yet wee ought to vndertake it Put case it is not in the Queenes chappel what then 4. This fast hath been hindred by certaine prophane carnall wretches 10 Here loe your Maiestie may see with what temperate spirite these men doe proceed and what they would teach and doe if they shoulde be contraried in great matters seeing they boult out suche doctrine against their Magistrats for crossing their appetites in so small a matter as is a litle phantastical age of fasting sodainely come vpon them for a desire they haue to heare themselues speake ten or twelue houres together after their continuall railing against fasting for these twentie one yeeres past But this is their spirite to rushe into euery thing with inordinate violence and to like of nothing that order and obedience layeth down vnto them The which your Maiesties great wisedome considering together with the quiet and modest proceedings of the Catholike part shall I doubt not easily perceiue what daunger it were to permit muche to such kinde of spirites and to bereaue this your Realme of so important a stay as Catholikes are in euery of your countreys against the perilous innouations of these and the like men whose finall ende is as their doctrine declareth to haue no gouernour or ruler at all 11 And this may bee one great Motiue vnto your Maiestie in respect of the safetie quietnes of your whole 〈◊〉 to extende some more mercye and fauour to your trustie and afflicted subiectes the Catholikes Who as they were moste ready at the beginning according to their bounden dueties to place your highnesse in that Royall roome wherein nowe by the fauour of God you stande So are they and will bee alwayes in like sorte ready with the vttermost droppe of their blood to defende the same in all safetie peace and quietnesse vnto the ende In consideration of which goodwil and seruice they can not
imagine to aske of your Maiestie any so great gift recompence or benefite in this worlde as shoulde be to them some fauourable tolleration with their consciences in religion the which consciences depending of iudegement and vnderstanding and not of affect and will can not be framed by them at their pleasures nor consequently reduced alwayes to such conformitie as is prescribed to them by their Superiours and yet this nothing deminisheth their duetifull loue towards the same Superiours seeing conscience as I haue said dependeth of iudgement and not of will BEcause you Catholiques are touched and that iustly with the crime of disobedience and rebellion towardes our soueraigne and that the whole fault hereof proceedeth from you that teache and leade the rest hereunto yee take some paines and seeke heere to cleare Poperie of that note but ill fauoredly and to little purpose for when you haue all sayd the matter is where it was you neither cleare your selues nor satisfie other you giue vs still faire wordes and make odious cōparisons besids the matter taking occasion in the most of this part to slander charge mē at home here and abroade aliue and dead one and other and still to vaunt and praise your selues and so make all things to serue your turne Herein spende you nowe sixe or seuen pages in this your Epistle to her Maiestie Whereof I must particularly speake some thing In the very entrye yee say yee medle with no mans particular fact but speake of the Catholik religion in generall So ye leaue vs a generall that can bee vndermined and ouerthrowne by no particulars Take away particulars and whereof will your generall consist Thus prouide you a salue for all the trecheries attempts taught and committed by any person of your side in any tyme So you salue vp the Popes bulles if you accompt him a man among other and his doing a particular facte So to make an ende yee salue vp all other libelles and writings made by any of those of your side what treason so euer they containe So yevantage your selfe greatly as ye weene and no lesse seeke you to disaduantage vs for what bryng you against vs and our religion in this case but particular mens writings and particular not factes but words of men Thus can you to charge in generall our religion both in doctrine and demeanour conclude without all reason A generall affirmatiue against vs by one or two particular examples but no particulars as I haue saide how contrary so euer they be in doctrine and behauiour to your Catholike religion in generall may ouerthrowe that you generally denie to fall into that religion Me thinketh you shoulde giue vs the same libertie ye take to your selues you medle you say with no mans particular fact and yet you will driue vs to answere for particulars 1 Your position hath two partes one to cleare your selues and your religion to wit you say that the Catholike religion in generall is vniustly touched by any secte of our time for teaching disobedience or rebellion against their Princes or as your note hath The Catholike faith teacheth obedience more then other religions This is for you I well wote not what you meane by your Catholike religion in generall nor howe you may vnderstande your note to bee some way true that your Catholike faith teacheth slauish obedience more then any other religion In that it maketh Emperours Kinges Potentates of the world and ciuil Magistrates so subiect to the Pope as to 〈◊〉 on their neckes to set them to holde his Stirrop his brydle to leade his Palfrey to kisse his foote c. Which al be but duties of obedience on their behalfes to set vp his creatures the Prelates of the Clergie to be Lordes ouer Gods Church whose seruantes they ought to bee As your very Pope also professeth himselfe to bee the seruant of the seruantes of God But as Salomon saith When a seruāt raigneth or is Lord it is one of the things of three or foure for the which the earth is moued can not susteine it selfe So this and such like slauishe obedience is nothing to the commendation of your Popishe religion which in too vile speeche and maner subiecteth into it those that yee call of the Laytte For obedience of subiectes to Princes it teacheth it so farre as may serue the turne of that religion and their ambitious mindes that I haue spoken of 2. The other part of your position here is to charge vs our religion to wit that the finall ende of our doctrine doing is to haue no gouernours or ruler at all that all heretiks and sectaries of our time such you call vs in euery coūtrey where they are contraried seeke to disturbe and molest by rebellion their Lordes and Princes teaching the same to be lawfull that they rushe into euerye thing with inordinate violence and like of nothing that order and obedience layeth downe vnto them whiche howe Clarkelike you proue wee shall God willing see in his place for first haue I to speake of you your faith doctrine religiō demeanor touching obediēce disobediēce w t is y t marke you shoote at or should be at least if ye rightly handled or perfourmed that yee take in hand Thus muft I stil put you in remēbrance of that where you shold proue and shewe that your faith and your religion that is the popishe faith and religion at this day is the Catholike fayth and religion as you terme it there you faile in your proofe It must needes bee supposed you are Catholikes and wee Heretikes and Sectaries because you say so without all proofe but the truth is farre otherwise False Catholikes or Catholikes in name may goe in opinion of men for Catholikes but true Catholikes shall they neuer be Leaue this equiuocation and ambiguitie of woordes and speeches and giue vs a sounder proofe then hitherto if ye haue it that Papistes bee true Catholiques and we Heretiks and Sectaries els giue vs leaue to beleeue that all ye say is not Gospell Our controuersie is not with the Catholik religion in general but with your Popish religion in particular The profession and fruites of your Popishe religion and disobedience to our Soueraigne the State and lawes here if we goe not without the compasse of these times will alwaies stoppe you from making a good argument to cleare your religion from rebellion namely when you deale with her Maiestie who is priuie of your whole doctrine and practise Yf you make a perfect argument eyther will one of your sentences be flatte false and so must be denied and you put to a harde prufe or els there is no remedy but ye must run for a poore helpe to an Elench and fallatiō which is a bad kind of reasoning You y t can not be reduced to conformitie prescribed by your Superiours Inducing you to your soules healthes to godlines to the cōmon good quiet of the countrey had not