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conscience_n blood_n evil_a sprinkle_v 1,886 5 11.1905 5 true
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A81048 Unrighteousness no plea for truth, nor ignorance a lover of it. Being an answer to a book called A plea for truth, in love to truth, subscribed by James Pope, wherein is contained his answer to several queries (sent to him by Thomas White) which are tried and found unsatisfactory, and James Popes Ten queries to the people (called) Quakers fully answered. : Also the doctrine and practise of the people (called Baptists) ... With a full discussion of their principles ... / By a true lover of all their souls and eternal welfare. John Crook. Crook, John, 1617-1699. 1659 (1659) Wing C7225A; ESTC R171617 50,094 60

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hath part in the first Resurrection over him the second death shall have no power and he is willing that the doctrine of the Resurrection of the body of Christ as the first fruits of the Resurrection of the bodies of the Saints should be perpetuated though some say now of such as once was said of Paul Acts 17. that he was a setter forth of strange gods because he Preached unto them Jesus and the Resurrection and this query doth not altogether excuse the Author from that spirit but James here is three things for thee to prove by plain Scripture and not by thy consequences least thou be guilty of that which you of your way have charged upon the Priests 1. To prove Christ commanded water baptism since his Resurrection 2. To prove that his servants practiced it by vertue of that command after his Resurrection 3. That he commanded outward washing to be practiced after his Resurrection in memorial of his Resurrection and that the practitioners did it so accordingly all which thou seems to affirm in thy query and to take it for granted and then a more particular answer to them all thou mayest receive according to the Scripture of Truth Q. 4. Whether those that deny the Ordinance of breaking bread as it was instituted by Christ and practiced by his Primitive Saints are willing the memorial of Christs death and blood-shed should remain among his Saints until his next coming Answ Those who deny any Ordinance or institution of Christ to those of whom he required it and to that end for which he appointed it as the cause of his requiring it at their hands are transgressors and are not willing that the end or cause of his commanding it should be fulfilled or accomplished nor do not wait or look for his appearing the second time without sin unto salvation but believe they are saved though they commit sin and believe that freedom from all sin they can never attain while living in this visible world and such are not onely unwilling that the memorial of Christs death and blood-shed should remain among his Saints but are both ignorant and unbelieving that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses all that know it and believe in it from all unrighteousness and presents them perfect unto God without spot or wrinkle or any such thing and such onely as thus believe celebrate the memorial of Christs death and blood-shed as are dead with Christ and such are free from sin and such though they neither eat bread nor drink wine but feed upon locust and wild hony or are content with a dinner of green herbs such I say do truely shew forth the Lords death in their conformity to it and his blood shed in that their hearts are sprinkled from an evil conscience to serve the living God in truth and righteousness Q. 5. Whether those that say that Scripture 1 Cor. 11.26 is meant of Christs coming in Spirit do not in effect say that the Ordinance of breaking of bread was appointed for unbelievers to eat and drink damnation till Christ come to them in Spirit Answ Was it not in the same night in which he was betrayed that he took bread and is not Christ a spirit and his coming in spirit or doth he come out of the spirit or is there a coming of Christ and not in the spirit is Christ and the spirit divided or can he come and he not in the spirit and the spirit in him and where Christ is present is not the spirit there also and he in it and it in him and yet but one And doth it at all follow in sound judgement or good understanding that they who say the 1 Cor. 11.26 is meant of Christs coming in spirit must needs or in effect say that the Ordinance of breaking bread was appointed for unbelievers to eat and drink damnation till Christ come to them in spirit any more then it follows that the Disciples had no power at all because they were commanded to wait at Jerusalem for the promise of the Father and that they should receive power after the Holy Ghost was come upon them Acts 1.4.8 ver or any more then it may be said of Christ that his words implyed or that he in effect said that his Disciples had not his spirit at all in them and so were none of his when he said to them in these words how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy spirit to them that ask him Luke 11.13 and yet all that time God was their Father and they could not ask aright without the spirit and yet Christ saith how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask him so do they who say that the coming of Christ in 1 Cor. 11.26 is his coming in spirit in effect say any more or otherwise that those had not the spirit at all or were unbelievers to whom Christ said take eat this is my body which is broken for you c. because they were to wait for a further and fuller manifestation of him in them and he went away in that fleshly appearance that he might come again unto them and abide with them for ever and this Christ prayed for and performed accordingly John 17.23 I in them and thou in me that they may be made perfect in one c. so that to say till he come is meant of Christs coming in spirit doth no more deny or in effect say that the breaking of bread was appointed for unbelievers to eat and drink damnation c. then Christ in saying the Father would give his holy Spirit to them that ask him in effect said that God would give his holy Spirit to them that asked or prayed without the Spirit or then Christ in effect said that they who waited in their wills and in the form without the power should receive power after the Holy Ghost was come upon them or then in effect Christ should say they had not the holy Spirit at all as yet because it was to come upon them and so till he come though meant of his coming in Spirit yet doth not follow but those to whom Christ spake had a measure of his Spirit already come to them and was in them and so commanded them not to eat and drink damnation but by eating of that bread and drinking of that cup they were to shew the Lords death till he come and then when he was come who was shewed by that eating and drinking the shew needed no longer the thing shewed being come and witnessed the bread indeed and drink indeed was known and Eternal life inherited Q. 6. Whether it is not granted by those that seem to deny it that the forecited place directs the Church at Corinth to the use of an Ordinance seeing some might eat this bread and drink this cup which is also called flesh and blood unworthily but those that eat truly that flesh that is meat indeed and drink that blood
baptism was not the Circumcision of the flesh a type of the Circumcision of the heart and was not water Baptism a figure of the inward washing by the Lavor of regeneration and is called a figure 1 Pet. 3.21 of that that saves not the washing away the filth of the flesh which was the outward baptism but the inward washing and answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ which is known by all who have their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience by the flesh of Jesus Christ How is Baptism fitted any more to the new witness then any other thing commanded or practiced by the Saints if thou knew the new witness which he that believes hath in himself thou wouldst know there is no more outward water in it then outward fire but thou speaks words by tradition and understandest not what thou sayest was Circumcision any otherwise fitted to the old witness or Testament then as a figure of the true cutting off from the body of sin by the Circumcision of Christ and is Baptism any otherwise fitted to the new Testament then as a figure also and when the substance is come they both end in him who is the substance And for thy saying Christs Disciples were to teach succeeding Disciples what ever he had commanded them c. but water is not mentioned to be commanded them by Christ and therefore not to teach water having it not in charge Again thou sayest he promised his presence with them to the end of the world if his presence with them then is he not a commander to them and are they not to receive the word at is mouth seeing God speaks by him in these last dayes and he is the same yesterday to day and for ever or was and did Christ only speak with and to his twelve disciples and they to deliver over by tradition what he told them or were the Saints without Christs presence for divers hundred years after his departure o●t of the world before the New Testament was gathered together and bound in one Book seeing the Epistles were scattered up and down in divers parts of the world some many hundred miles distant one Epistle from another and how long after and by whose command were they gathered together or is Christs presence with his people and yet he speaks not to them imediately or is Christ less powerful then he was or is his love abated or did he speak once for all and will he never speak more imediately or else what doth Christs presence signifie now if not to speak to them lead them and save them otherwise what is man the better for such a presence as he knows not nor is not sensible of or hath Christ ceased to be a King seeing where the presence of a King is there is power or is a man only to believe he hath Christs presence with him while other Lords have Dominion over him or hath Christ left his people to pick out his worship as well as he can here and there a little out of all the Epistles and other Books by their own judgements and understandings Is not this to make the New Testament inferior to the Old where Israels Laws were together in Tables and in some particular places and books as Deut Levit. c If you be the succeeding Disciples and are to observe all things that those were to observe and had in command why are you not going into all Nations to Preach the Gospel in every creature but stay at home in your country or have you not Christs presence with you and so dare not venture too far but what singular thing do you do whereby it may appear you have Christs presence with you and are indeed the succeeding Disciples thou speaks of or is it not rather manifest you are none of his Disciples seeing he never taught nor practiced such customs and conformities to the world as are practiced among many called baptists besides this legible mark they do not love one another but bite and devour one another about those things they call Christs Ordinances and appointments and if this be true which Christ said viz. by this shall all men know you are my Disciples if you love one another then whose Disciples are those who hate one another how is Christs presence with them while these things abide among them Then thou gives thy reason why thou sayest that of water is the one Baptism Paul writes of viz. because the other is not called Baptism but it is called washing by the spirit 1 Cor. 6.11 divers other places as before is proved so it is either the thing or the word thou denyes if the thing it is sufficiently proved to be called washing which is all one with baptizing as Luke 11.38 And when the Pharisee saw it he marvelled that he had not first baptized before dinner or washed as some Translators read it If the word baptism be that which thou denyes where is the word Baptism attributed to fire or where is it said they were baptized with fire and yet thou urges the second of Acts to prove Baptism with fire when there is not the word baptism there onely like as of fire But then thou sayest if it were called Baptism yet were it a Metaphorical and not a proper Baptism c. James thou mayest remember in thy six page thou sayest to the Law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them out of thy own mouth mayest thou be judged where is there one such a word in the Law or testimony as Metaphorical if it be not there to be found may it not be said without offence thou speaks not according to the Law and testimony therefore there is no light in thee for thou sayest plainly it is not a proper baptism surely James thou knowest it not and therefore miscals it for if ever thou had witnessed it or knew what it were to be baptized into Christ and to put on Christ thou would not so speak of it to call it not a proper Baptism What did John who baptized with water baptize with a proper baptism and Christ of whom he bore witness baptize with an improper baptism or a baptism not proper was ever such grosse absurdities affirmed as that the messenger and servant should baptize with the proper Baptism and the Master himself with a Baptism not proper Is the servant become above his master or is the Masters work onely Metaphorical and not proper what is not the washing away of sins a proper washing and is not the lavor of regeneration a proper washing or baptising and is not that with wch those Apostles and others who were baptized or washed by the spirit a proper washing or baptizing and those that had their bodies washed with pure water was not that a proper washing Is not this to darken counsel again by words without knowledge and by mens traditions and
and none can be in the truth and most truely live above the way ordained of God to life neither can any live above the way and yet be in the truth and therefore thy query is an unlearned question and manifests thy ignorance of the mysteries of Christ Q. 9. Whether if those who despised Moses Law died without mercy under two or three witnesses ought not those then that either in word practice or writing despise Christs Law to be deeply humbled and truely repent of so grievous a sin especially if they have taught others so do Answ I hope that is not the English of thy query viz. that thou wouldst have them more sorely punished that deny your water washing then those were that despised Moses Law Those who despise Christs Law ought to be deeply humbled and repent of it and turn from it or they cannot be saved and such are all those who despise the true light with which every man that cometh into the world is lighted and call it natural for Christ is a Law-giver and gives Laws to his children as Moses did to the Jews and his Laws and Ordinances are onely known and read in the true light and he which opposes or gain-says either in himself or others the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withall is an unprofitable servant unto God though he be found in all the outward practices of the true Church for God is a Spirit and they which worship him aright must worship in the Spirit and in the truth for such God did seek to worship him in the dayes of the Apostles and such God is seeking again and all others shall be discovered and cast out as dung upon the face of the earth and such despisers shall behold and wonder and by their mocking at the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world shall their bonds become strong and their punishment become sorer then those who despised Moses Law if they speedily repent not 10 Q. Whether it will be a good Plea at the dreadful day of Christ to say Lord we would not have despised thy Laws if thou hadst made them to our minds and we had thought they had been spiritual enough Answ It will be no good Plea at the dreadful day of Christ neither is it now to say Lord we would not have despised thy Laws if thou hadst made them to our minds and we had thought they had been spiritual enough and of this sort are all those who put the day of the Lord afar off and are of the night and know not the day of the Lord as yet to be dawned nor the day-star to be risen in their hearts but though they draw near with their lips their hearts are far from God and their minds are estranged from him by wicked works though in words they confess him yet they are but in their thoughts and think they stand sure but their foundation is rottenness and built upon the sands like all those who say and do not and hear his words but obey them not and cry the Temple of the Lord and Church-fellowship and Ordinances but hate to be Reformed and to have their conversation ordered aright and so cannot see Gods Salvation while they account that too low and carnal or legal and natural which checks and reproves for sin in the Conscience and accuses for evil and excuses when they do well and reject it and slight it as not spiritual enough and such are they thy Query speaks of had they known that the light in their Consciences had been spiritual and that which came from Christ the light of the world and given them to lead out of darkness and that with which they must come to see themselves lost and undone if ever they be saved and in the sight and sence of their miserable estate to wait for a Saviour and in that light to see him revealed to save when none can help or deliver I say this is the man and the woman that in truth thy Query speaks of that shall say Lord we would not have despised thy Laws if thou hadst made them to our minds or if they had been spiritual enough but the light in the Conscience we liked not because it alwayes bore a witness for God against all our evil wayes and now we marvel not that every one that doth evil hates it because it reproves them all but outward Observances and bodily Exercises we like well and in these Observations we look for the Kingdom of Heaven to come but to give up to be guided by the light in our Consciences and shines in our hearts for that to give us the knowledge of God in the face of Christ we like not but accounted it not sufficient to lead to Christ and that which prejudiced us the more against the light which shines in our hearts and hath long shewed us our evil words before we spake them and our thoughts when they first did arise in us before we consented to them to follow them was because we accounted it common to all men and that which every man had and that though it shewed some sins against the Law yet not all sins against the Gospel as unbelief and therefore slighted it as legal and natural and when it troubled us or reproved us when we had been worshipping of thee O Lord as we thought in breaking bread and drinking wine and preaching and praying and the like which we verily believed had been thy ordinances and appointments and when we were troubled in our spirits and minds after such exercises as these we looked upon it as the temptation of the Devil and did not know it to be Gods witness in our Consciences or his Spirit striving with us to bring us to silence that so we might know the dumb to speak and the Spirit of the Lord to move and stir and guide in us and we in all things to be led by it and so in all we did feel Gods acceptance by the Testimony of his Spirit in us even the Spirit it self bearing witnesse with our spirits that we were Gods Children and the Spirit of truth to lead us into all truth that so by it we might witness freedom from the inward troubles of our minds and spirits and the accusings of Gods witness in our Consciences and so be made free and perfect as pertaining to the Conscience by the blood of Christ which is onely known and felt in his light as the Scripture saith 1 John 1.7 If we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin But we looked on that of God in our Consciences to be too low and of the reliques of the old Adam or something of the Law but we looked upon our selves as not being under the Law but under grace and so judged our selves in Christ and when we were at