Selected quad for the lemma: conscience_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
conscience_n	bind_v	law_n	prescribe_v	1,060	5	9.9803	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69535	The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer.	1661 (1661)	Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198	132,164	165

Subject that can exempt him from the duty of obeying But it may ensnare him in a certainty of sinning whether he obey or disobey For as God commandeth him to obey and also not to do that which man commandeth when God forbiddeth it So he obligeth the erronious first to lay down his errours and so to obey But if a thing he forbidden of God and commanded of man and one man erroniously thinke it lawful and that he should obey and another is in doubt between both it is neither a duty nor lawful for either of them here to obey For mans errour changeth nor Gods Laws nor disobligeth himself from obedience But this mans duty is both to lay by that errour and to refuse obedience but if the question be only of the order of such a persons duty we answer If the thing be really lawful and obedience a duty then he that doubteth or erreth should if possible suddenly lay by his errours or doubt and so obey But if that cannot be he should first go about the fittest means for his better information till he be resolved and so obey And so on the contrary if really the thing commanded be unlawful if he be sure of it he must resolve against it if he hesitate he is not therefore allowed to do a thing forbidden because he is ignorant For his ignorance is suposed culpable it self but he is first to consult and use the best means for his Instruction till he know the truth and in the mean time to suspend his Act. But yet because of humane frailty between several faults we must consider when we cannot avoid all as we would in what order most safely to watch and to avoid them And so when I have done my best and cannot discern whether a Command be just and the thing lawful or not If it have the face of Idolatry Blasphemy or some hainous Sin that is commanded and our dis-obedience have the appearance but of an effect of involuntary ignorance it is more excusable in us to fear the greater Sin and so to suspend till we are better satisfied than to do that which we suspect to be so hainous a Sin though in leed it prove no sin So on the contrary if our disobedience be like to bring Infamy or Calamity on the Church and our Obedience appear to be but about a very small sin if we doubt of it it is more excusable to obey than to disobey though both be faulty supposing the thing to be indeed unlawful and we discern it not So that your Rule of obeying where you are not as sure c Is an unsure Rule unless as we have fullyer cautioned it Pretence of Conscience is no exemption from obedience for the Law as long as it is a Law certainly binds to obedience Rom. 13. Ye must needs be subject and this pretence of a tender gainsaying Conscience cannot abrogate the Law since it can neither take away the Authority of the Law-maker nor make the matter of the Law in it self unlawful Besides if pretence of Conscience did exempt from obedience Laws were uselesse whosoever had not list to obey might pretend tenderness of Conscience and be thereby set at liberty which if once granted Anarchy and Confusion must needs follow Repl Neither pretence of Conscience nor real Errour of Conscience exempteth from the Obligation to obey though sometime it may so ensnare as that obeying shall become of the two the greater sin so also real Errours or pretence of Conscience will justifie no man for obeying when it is by God forbidden Though Charity will move to pity and relieve those that are truly perplexed or Scrupulous yet we must not break Gods Command in Charity to them and therefore we must not perform publick Services undecently or disorderly for the ease of tender Consciences Repl. O that you would but do all that God alloweth you yea that he hath commanded you for these ends how happy would you make your selves and these poor afflicted Churches But as to the instance of your Rule we answer 1. When the indecency and disorder is so small as that it will not crosse the ends so much as our disobedience would we are here so far more conformable and peaceable than you as that we would even in Gods worship do some things indecent and disorderly rather than disobey And so should you do rather than destroy your Brethren or hinder that peace and healing of the Church For Order is for the thing ordered and not contrarily For example there is much disorder lies in the Common-Prayer Book yet we would obey in it as far as the ends of our calling do require It would be undecent to come without a Band or other handsome raiment into the Assembly yet rather than nor worship God at all we would obey if that were commanded us we are as confident that Surplices and Copes are undecent and kneeling at the Lords Table is disorderly as you are of the contrary And yet if the Magistrate would be advised by us supposing himself addicted against you we would advise him to be more charitable to you than you here advise him to be to us We would have him if your Conscience require it to forbear you in this undecent and disorderly way But to speak more distinctly 1. There are some things decent and orderly when the opposite species is not undecent or disorderly 2. There are some things undecent and disorderly in a small and tolerable degree And some things in a degree intolerable 1. When things decent are commanded whose opposites would not be at all undecent there Charity and Peace and Edification may command a Relaxation or rather should at first restrain from too severe Impositions As it is decent to wear either a Cloak or a Gown a Cassock buttoned or unbutton'd with a Girdle or without to sit stand or kneel in singing of a Psalm to sit or stand in hearing the word read or preached c. 2. When a Circumstance is undecent or disorderly but in a tollerable degree to an Inconvenience Obedience or Charity or Edification may command us to do it and make it not only lawful but a duty pro hic nunc while the preponderating Accident prevaileth Christs instances go at least as far as this about the Priests in the Temple breaking the Sabbath blamelesly and Davids eating the Shew bread which was lawful for none to eate ordinarily but the Priests And the Disciples rubbing the ears of Corn I will have mercy not sacrifice is a Leston that he sets us to learn when two duties come together to prefer the greater if we would escape sin And sure to keep an able Preacher in the Church or a private Christian in Communion is a greater duty caeteris paribus than to use a Ceremony which we conceive to be decent It is more orderly to use the better translation of the Scripture than the worse as the Common-Prayer-book doth and yet we would

the Usurper would quickly have brought Livings to that competency as would have maintained able Preachers we may not question whether just Authority will do it 2ly When abundance of able Ministers cast out would be glad of liberty to preach for nothing this pretence hath no taste or sense in it 3ly When we may not without the imputation of uncharitableness once imagine that your Lordships with your Deans and other Officers do not value the saving of souls above money we may conclude that you will voluntarily allow so much out of your ample Revenues as will supply such places or many of them The rather because we find you charging them as desiring inordinately the honours and wealth of the world that would have had all Ministers to have had 100. li. or 80. li. per annum a piece and therefore may conclude that you will take no more if you hate that sin more than they do that are accused of it But the next place of your Answer frighteth us more to which we say that we will not differ with you for the name Whether reading Homilies may be called Preaching But we take the boldnesse to say That it is another manner of preaching that Christ and his Apostles sent men to perform and which the Church hath gloried in and been edified by to this day and which thousands of souls have been brought to Heaven by and which we again desire may be enjoyned and not left so indifferent Sect. 3. Sentences The Sentences tend all to exhort the people to pious liberalitie whether the Object be the Minister or the Poor and though some of the Sentences be Apocryphal they may be useful for that purpose Why Collection for the poor should be made at another time there is no reason given onely change desired Reply 1. We have oft told you why the Apocrypha should be cautelously used in the Church That Usurper that should pretend to the Crown and have a more numerous party then the King that hath the undoubted right will be lookt on more suspitiously then ordinary subjects 2. It is a sordid thing for Ministers to love money and its sordid unlesse in extraordinay necessities to have them beg and beg for themselves and beg under pretence of serving God even in times when the Clergy seems advanced 3. We confesse our selves deceived in thinking we should have free personal debates with you which made us reserve many of our Reasons Reasons are 1. for lesse disturbance 2. Because the peoples affections are much more raised usually and so fitter for returns when they have received 3. Because especially it is most seasonable to do the Acts of gratitude when we have received the obliging benefits and so say What shall I give the Lord for all his benefits when we have partaked of them and to offer our selves first and with our selves what he giveth us unto Him when we have received him and his grace offered to us These are the Reasons that brought us under your censure of desiring a change Sect. 4. P. 19. 3. Exhort The first and third Exhortations are very seasonable before the Communion to put men in mind how they ought to be prepared and in what danger they are to come unprepared that if they be not duly qualified they may depart and be better prepared another time Reply But is it not more seasonable that in so great businesse such warning go a considerable time before Is there leisure of self-examination and making restitution and satisfaction and going to the Minister for Counsel to quiet his conscience c. in order to the present Sacrament We yet desire those things may be sooner told them Sect. 5. Exc. 1. We fear this may discourage many Certainly themselves cannot desire that men should come to the holy Communion with a troubled conscience and therefore have no reason to blame the Church for saying It is requisite that men come with a quiet conscience and prescribing meanes for quieting thereof If this be to discourage men it is fit they should be discouraged and deterred and kept from the Communion till they have done all that is here directed by the Church which they may well do considering that this Exhortation shall be read in the Church the Sunday or Holiday before Reply But we can and do desire that many that have a troubled conscience and cannot otherwise quiet it should come to the Communion for remedy and not be discouraged or kept away Sect. 6. Minister's turning The Minister's turning to the people is not most convenient throughout the whole Ministration when he speaks to them as in Lessons Absolution and Benedictions it is convenient that he turn to them when he speaks for them to God it is fit that they should all turn another way as the ancient Church ever did the reasons of which you may see Aug. lib. 2 de Ser. Dom. in monte Reply It is not yet understood by us why the Ministers or people for which you mean by they all we know not should turn another way in prayer we think the people should hear the prayers of the Minister if not Latine prayers may serve and then you need not except against extemporate prayers because the people cannot own them for how can most of them own what they hear not whatever it be As for August reason for looking towards the East when we pray Ut admoneatur animus ad naturam excellentiorem se convertere id est ad Dominum cum ipsum corpus ejus quod est terrenum ad corpus excellentius id est ad corpus celeste convertitur We suppose you will not expect that we should be much moved by it if we should Why should not we worship towards any of the creatures visible when we can pretend such Reasons for it as minding us of superiour things and why should not we look Southward when the Sun is in the South And we fear the worshipping towards the Sun as representing or minding us of Christ's heavenly body is too like to the prohibited worshiping before an Image and too like that worshipping before the Host of Heaven in which the old Idolatry consisted or at least which was the Introduction of it of which our Protestant Writers treat at large against the Papists on the point of Image-Worship See also V●ssius de Idololatriâ lib. 2. cap. 23. c. Sect. 7. Exc. 3. It appears by the greatest evidences of Antiquity that it was upon the 25. day of Decemb. S. Aug. in Psal 132. Reply It is not Aug. alone in Psal 132. that must tell us which way the greatest Evidences of Antiquity go and his reasoning that John must decrease and Christ must increase as proved by John's being born when the days decrease and Christs being born when the days increase doth not much invite us to receive his Testimony We conceive the Ancient opinion of Jerusalem and other Eastern Churches that were nearest to the place is a greater Argument for