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conscience_n bind_v law_n power_n 7,916 5 5.8661 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A78958 The papers which passed at Nevv-Castle betwixt His sacred Majestie and Mr Alex: Henderson concerning the change of church-government. Anno Dom. 1646. Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646. aut; Marshall, William, fl. 1617-1650, engraver. 1649 (1649) Wing C2535A; ESTC R213547 25,945 67

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satisfy_v your_o majesty_n may_v have_v more_o or_o the_o same_o further_o clear_v 5._o second_o i_o do_v humble_o desire_v your_o majesty_n to_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o fallacy_n of_o that_o argument_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o the_o universal_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n it_o be_v the_o argument_n of_o the_o papist_n for_o such_o tradition_n as_o no_o orthodox_a divine_a will_v admit_v the_o law_n and_o testimony_n must_v be_v the_o rule_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certain_a knowledge_n of_o the_o practice_n universal_a of_o the_o church_n for_o many_o year_n eusebius_n the_o prime_a historian_n confess_v so_o much_o the_o learned_a josephus_n scaliger_n testify_v that_o from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n until_o a_o good_a time_n after_o no_o certainty_n can_v be_v have_v from_o ecclesiastical_a author_n about_o church_n matter_n it_o be_v true_a diotrephes_n seek_v the_o pre-eminence_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o 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time_n 2._o concerning_o baptism_n a_o private_a person_n may_v perform_v the_o external_a action_n and_o rite_n both_o of_o it_o and_o of_o the_o eucharist_n yet_o be_v neither_o of_o the_o two_o a_o sacrament_n or_o have_v any_o efficacy_n unless_o it_o be_v do_v by_o he_o that_o be_v lawful_o call_v thereunto_o or_o by_o a_o person_n make_v public_a and_o clothe_v with_o authority_n by_o ordination_n this_o error_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o baptism_n be_v beget_v by_o another_o error_n of_o the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o baptism_n 7._o to_o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v concerning_o your_o majesty_n oath_n i_o shall_v add_v nothing_o not_o be_v willing_a to_o enter_v upon_o the_o question_n of_o the_o subordination_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n whether_o to_o king_n or_o parliament_n or_o both_o and_o to_o either_o of_o they_o in_o their_o own_o place_n such_o a_o headship_n as_o the_o king_n of_o england_n have_v claim_v and_o such_o a_o supremacy_n as_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n crave_v with_o appeal_v from_o the_o supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judicature_n to_o they_o as_o set_v over_o
the_o church_n in_o the_o same_o line_n of_o subordination_n i_o do_v utter_o disclaim_v upon_o such_o reason_n as_o give_v myself_o satisfaction_n although_o no_o man_n shall_v be_v more_o willing_a to_o submit_v to_o civil_a power_n each_o one_o in_o their_o own_o place_n and_o more_o unwilling_a to_o make_v any_o trouble_n than_o myself_o only_o concerning_o the_o application_n of_o the_o general_n of_o a_o oath_n to_o the_o particular_a case_n now_o in_o hand_n under_o favour_n i_o conceive_v not_o how_o the_o clergy_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v principal_o intend_v in_o your_o oath_n for_o although_o they_o be_v esteem_v to_o be_v the_o representative_a church_n yet_o even_o that_o be_v for_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o church_n collective_a salus_fw-la populi_fw-la be_v suprema_fw-la lex_fw-la and_o to_o be_v principal_o intend_v your_o majesty_n know_v it_o be_v so_o in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n where_o the_o like_a alteration_n be_v make_v and_o if_o nothing_o of_o this_o kind_n can_v be_v do_v without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o clergy_n what_o reformation_n can_v be_v expect_v in_o france_n or_o spain_n or_o rome_n itself_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o pope_n or_o prelate_n will_v consent_v to_o their_o own_o ruin_n 8._o i_o will_v not_o presume_v upon_o any_o secret_a knowledge_n of_o the_o opinion_n hold_v by_o the_o king_n your_o majesty_n father_n of_o famous_a memory_n they_o be_v much_o better_o know_v to_o your_o majesty_n i_o do_v only_o produce_v what_o be_v profess_v by_o he_o before_o the_o world_n and_o although_o prayer_n and_o tear_n be_v the_o arm_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o it_o be_v neither_o acceptable_a to_o god_n nor_o conducible_a for_o king_n and_o prince_n to_o force_v the_o church_n to_o put_v on_o these_o arm_n nor_o can_v i_o ever_o hear_v a_o reason_n why_o a_o necessary_a defensive_a war_n against_o unjust_a violence_n be_v unlawful_a although_o it_o be_v join_v with_o offence_n and_o invasion_n which_o be_v intend_v for_o defence_n but_o so_o that_o arm_n be_v lay_v down_o when_o the_o offensive_a war_n cease_v by_o which_o it_o do_v appear_v that_o the_o war_n on_o the_o other_o side_n be_v in_o the_o nature_n thereof_o defensive_a 9_o concerning_o the_o force_n of_o conscience_n which_o i_o pretermit_v in_o my_o other_o paper_n i_o be_o force_v now_o but_o without_o force_v of_o my_o conscience_n to_o speak_v of_o our_o conscience_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v force_v either_o by_o ourselves_o or_o by_o other_o by_o ourselves_o 1._o when_o we_o stop_v the_o ear_n of_o our_o conscience_n and_o will_v not_o harken_v or_o give_v place_n to_o information_n resolve_v obstinate_o ne_fw-fr si_fw-la persuaseris_fw-la persuadebis_fw-la which_o be_v no_o less_o than_o a_o resist_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o the_o harden_n of_o our_o heart_n 2._o or_o when_o we_o stop_v the_o mouth_n and_o suppress_v the_o clamour_n of_o our_o conscience_n resolve_v rather_o to_o suffer_v the_o worm_n to_o gnaw_v and_o the_o fire_n to_o burn_v inward_o then_o to_o make_v profession_n of_o that_o we_o be_v convince_v to_o be_v truth_n 3._o or_o when_o we_o fear_v our_o conscience_n as_o with_o a_o hot_a iron_n that_o it_o become_v senseless_a which_o be_v the_o punishment_n of_o the_o former_a unto_o which_o be_v oppose_v the_o true_o tender_a conscience_n such_o as_o josiah_n have_v 2_o king_n 22._o 19_o again_o 1._o our_o conscience_n be_v say_v to_o be_v force_v by_o other_o when_o they_o obtrude_v upon_o we_o what_o be_v in_o itself_o evil_a and_o unlawful_a which_o if_o we_o admit_v against_o our_o own_o conscience_n we_o sin_v two_o way_n one_o be_v by_o do_v that_o which_o be_v in_o itself_o evil_a and_o unlawful_a the_o other_o be_v by_o do_v it_o against_o a_o dictate_n of_o conscience_n which_o be_v a_o contempt_n of_o god_n who_o vicegerent_n it_o be_v 2._o or_o when_o other_o urge_v we_o to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v in_o itself_o good_a or_o may_v lawful_o be_v do_v but_o through_o error_n of_o conscience_n we_o judge_v it_o to_o be_v evil_a and_o unlawful_a in_o this_o case_n if_o we_o do_v not_o that_o which_o be_v press_v upon_o we_o we_o sin_v because_o the_o thing_n be_v good_a and_o lawful_a and_o if_o we_o do_v it_o we_o sin_v because_o we_o do_v against_o our_o conscience_n which_o in_o this_o case_n bind_v but_o oblige_v not_o and_o yet_o there_o be_v a_o way_n to_o escape_v out_o of_o this_o labyrinth_n it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o will_n of_o god_n to_o lay_v a_o necessity_n of_o sin_v upon_o any_o man_n the_o only_a way_n be_v to_o lay_v aside_o such_o a_o conscience_n it_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o old_a man_n which_o we_o be_v command_v to_o put_v off_o otherwise_o we_o be_v sufficient_o inform_v and_o yet_o cleave_v to_o our_o old_a error_n we_o rather_o do_v violence_n to_o our_o conscience_n ourselves_o than_o suffer_v violence_n from_o other_o the_o application_n for_o answer_v the_o quaere_fw-la i_o leave_v to_o your_o majesty_n newcastle_n june_n 17._o 1646._o for_o mr._n alex_n henderson_n in_o reply_n to_o his_o second_o paper_n june_n 22._o 1646._o his_o majesty_n three_o paper_n 1._o it_o be_v arrogance_n beside_o loss_n of_o time_n in_o i_o to_o vie_v preamble_n with_o you_o for_o it_o be_v truth_n i_o seek_v and_o neither_o praise_n nor_o victory_n wherefore_o i_o shall_v only_o insist_v upon_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v mere_o necessary_a to_o my_o own_o satisfaction_n in_o order_n to_o which_o i_o desire_v the_o assistance_n of_o some_o divine_n whereupon_o i_o will_v insist_v no_o further_o save_v only_o to_o wish_v that_o you_o may_v not_o as_o i_o have_v know_v many_o man_n do_v lose_v time_n by_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o way_n to_o save_v it_o wherein_o i_o have_v only_o seek_v to_o disburden_v myself_o but_o to_o lay_v no_o blame_n upon_o you_o and_o so_o i_o leave_v it_o 2._o nor_o will_v i_o say_v more_o of_o the_o second_o than_o this_o that_o i_o be_o glad_a you_o have_v so_o well_o approve_v of_o what_o i_o have_v say_v concerning_o my_o education_n and_o reason_n but_o then_o remember_v that_o another_o man_n will_n be_v at_o least_o as_o weak_a a_o ground_n to_o build_v my_o faith_n upon_o as_o my_o former_a education_n 3._o in_o this_o there_o be_v two_o point_n first_o concerning_o the_o reform_a power_n then_o anent_o the_o english_a reformation_n for_o the_o first_o i_o confess_v you_o now_o speak_v clear_o which_o before_o you_o do_v but_o dark_o mention_v wherein_o i_o shall_v main_o differ_v with_o you_o until_o you_o shall_v show_v i_o better_a reason_n yet_o thus_o far_o i_o will_v go_v along_o with_o you_o that_o when_o a_o general_n council_n can_v be_v have_v several_a kingdom_n may_v reform_v themselves_o which_o be_v learned_o and_o full_o prove_v by_o the_o late_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n in_o his_o disputation_n against_o fisher_n but_o that_o the_o inferior_a magistrate_n or_o people_n take_v it_o which_o way_n you_o will_v have_v this_o power_n i_o utter_o deny_v for_o which_o by_o your_o favour_n you_o have_v yet_o make_v no_o sufficient_a proof_n to_o my_o judgement_n indeed_o if_o you_o can_v have_v bring_v or_o can_v bring_v authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o this_o opinion_n i_o will_v and_o will_v yet_o with_o all_o reverence_n submit_v but_o as_o for_o your_o example_n out_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n in_o my_o mind_n they_o rather_o make_v for_o than_o against_o i_o all_o those_o reformation_n be_v make_v by_o king_n and_o it_o be_v a_o good_a probable_a though_o i_o will_v not_o say_v convince_a argument_n that_o if_o god_n will_v have_v approve_v of_o a_o popular_a reform_v way_n there_o be_v king_n of_o judah_n and_o israel_n sufficient_o negligent_a and_o ill_a to_o have_v make_v such_o example_n by_o but_o by_o the_o contrary_a the_o 16._o chap._n of_o number_n show_v clear_o how_o god_n disapprove_v of_o such_o course_n but_o i_o forget_v this_o assertion_n be_v to_o be_v prove_v by_o you_o yet_o i_o may_v put_v you_o in_o the_o way_n wherefore_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o that_o this_o pretend_a power_n in_o the_o people_n must_v as_o all_o other_o either_o be_v direct_o or_o else_o declaratory_o by_o approbation_n give_v by_o god_n which_o how_o soon_o you_o can_v do_v i_o submit_v otherwise_o you_o prove_v nothing_o for_o the_o cite_n of_o private_a man_n opinion_n more_o than_o as_o they_o concur_v with_o the_o general_a consent_n of_o the_o church_n in_o their_o time_n weigh_v little_a with_o i_o it_o be_v too_o well_o know_v that_o rebel_n never_o want_v writer_n to_o maintain_v their_o unjust_a action_n and_o though_o i_o much_o reverence_n bishop_n jewel_n memory_n i_o never_o think_v he_o