Selected quad for the lemma: conscience_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
conscience_n	authority_n	church_n	ordain_v	1,218	5	9.9132	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03398	A suruay of the pretended holy discipline. Contayning the beginninges, successe, parts, proceedings, authority, and doctrine of it: with some of the manifold, and materiall repugnances, varieties and vncertaineties, in that behalfe	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1593 (1593)	STC 1352; ESTC S100667	297,820	466

you of vs or least those things which we haue written of Ecclesiasticall policie properly against that Antichristian tyrannie as necessitie required are taken by some in that sense as if euer we had meant to compel to our order those churches that thinke otherwise then we doo of it and the gouernors of them agreeing els with vs in the truth of doctrine agreeable to the word of God and that except they followed our order we accounted otherwise of them then their godlines and dignitie and mutuall brotherhood doth require c. Farre be this arrogancie from vs. Quis vllum nobis in vllam Ecclesiam imperium tribuit Who doth giue vs authority ouer anie church Far be it from vs that we should thinke so the substantiall matters be kept there ought nothing to be graunted to antiquitie nothing to custome nothing to the circumstances of places times and persons c. Againe in his booke against D. Sarauia hauing spoken of the tyrannie of Popish Bishops hee maketh this exception Neque tamen But wee doo not therefore accuse all Archbishops and Bishops now so called of tyranie For what arrogancie were that Nay so as they doo imitate the examples of the olde holy Bishops and indeuor as much as they can to reforme the house of God so miserably deformed according to the rule of Gods word why may we not acknowledge al of them now so called Archbishops and Bishops obey them and honor them with all reuerence So far we are from that which some obiect vnto vs most falsly and most impudently as though we tooke vppon vs to prescribe to anie Church in anie place our examples to be followed like vnto those vnwise men who account wel of nothing but of that which they doo themselues And to the same effect a little before If now the reformed Churches of England being vnderpropped with the authoritie of Bishoppes and Archbishops do continue as this hath happened to that Church in our memorie that she hath had men of that calling not onely most notable martyrs of God but also excellent pastors and doctors Fruatur sane ista singulari dei benificentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her truly inioy this singular blessing of God which I wish may be perpetuall vnto her Furthermore it should seeme that Zanchius as moderate and learned a man as euer fauoured the pretended Elderships was appointed some 12 or 16. yeres since to draw a conf●ssion of religion for the Churches of France others as Melanchthon had done the Augustan confession for Germanie Accordingly hee drew it and in the same speaking of Bishops he vseth these wordes Non improbamius patres c. Wee doo not disalow the fathers in that after a diuers waie of dispensing the word and gouerning the Church they multiplied diuerse orders of Ministers seeing it was lawfull for them so to do as it is vnto vs and seeing it appeareth that they did it for honest causes appertaining at that time to the order decencie and edification of the Church And in the next article Hac ratione c. By this reason vz. that the nurseries of dissentions and of schismes may be taken away wee thinke that these thinges which were ordained before the Councell of Nice concerning Archbishops nay as touching the foure Patriarches may be excused and defended When this booke was perused and this clause found in it then forsoth a deuise was had for the staying of it vnder pretence that now it was thought more meete that there should be a harmonie made of all the confessions of diuers churches But Zanchius himselfe maketh this the chiefe cause if I vnderstand him why his booke dyd mislike some of them for that hee had written as before is mentioned of Bishops For so hee sayth Magnus quidam vir c. A certaine great man meaning Beza as it is supposed did write vnto mee of this matter as followeth Your confession was read by mee and N. others with great delight It is written most learnedly and in a most exquisite methode and if you except that which you adde towards the end touching Archbishops and the Hierarchie mihi summopere placuit it pleased mee exceedingly Vpon this occasion as it seemeth Zanchius printed his said confession with certaine annotations In the which annotations he sheweth three reasons for his allowance of Archbishops Bishops The first is grounded vpon the practise of the primitiue church presently after the Apostles times the second is for that hee thought it his dutie in the draught of his said booke to haue regard to those reformed churches which retaine both Bishops Archbishops and the third because all the reformed Churches generally although they haue chaunged the names yet in effect they doe keepe the authoritie as where they haue superintendents and generall superintendents Nay saith he where these new base Latine names are not admitted Ibi tamen solent esse aliquot primarij penes quos fere tota est authoritas yet there are in those places vsually certaine chiefemen that doe in a manner beare all the sway But I pray you be pleased that I may deliuer vnto you the maner of his setting down of his first reason and that in his owne words for they carry with them a notable condemnation of other mens great pride rashnes Cum haenc conscriberem fidei confessionem c. When I writ this confession of faith I writ all the thinges in it of a good conscience and as I beleeued so I freely spake the scriptures teaching men so to doe And my faith first of all and simply doth rely vpon the word of God then somewhat also vpon the common consent of the whole ancient Catholicke Church if the same bee not repugnant to the scriptures For I beleeue that what thinges were defined and receiued by the auncient Fathers assembled in the name of the Lord with a generall consent of them all and without any contradiction of the holy Scriptures the same surely although they be not of the same authoritie with holy Scriptures yet did they proceed from the holy Ghost Heereof it commeth to passe that those things which are of this nature neither would I neither dare I with a good conscience disallow them And what can be shewed more certainly out of histories out of the councels out of the writings of all the ancient fathers then that those orders of Ministers of the which we haue spoken haue bene ordained and receiued in the Church by the generall consent of all christian common-wealths And who then am I that should presume to reproue that which the whole Church hath approued This is true and religious humilitie Thus all graue and discreet godly men haue euerwritten Those that contemne all the learned Fathers that went before them doe open a windowe to their owne discredite by those that shall come after them That which this godly and great learned man ascribeth to the

hee shall thereby incurre the high displeasure of these Rabbies which he shall be sure to haue sticking vpon him vntill they can waite him as good a turne yet I say againe vvhat is left to the magistrat The iniurie is confessed afore There shall need no triall of the fact where so many witnesses may be vsed to prooue his confession afore if now he should denie it All that the magistrat hath to do is to set down what recompense I shall haue for my sayd iniurie and to tax my charges If you say nay hee will heare the cause againe Indeed I confesse he had need to do so But so both I and the partie should be doubly charged and troubled Besides that course would turne to the vtter discredit of the presbyteries that their dealings fitting in the seat of Christ should come to be scanned by those that are but humane ordinations For so some of them by colour of the Apostles words do debase magistracie And therefore peraduenture they will thinke it meet that vpon certificat from them the magistrats should so prōceed to adiudge me a recompense and to rate mine expenses without any further adoo Some such thing it is though not in this very case which the ministers of the low countries haue desired Thus a very graue man borne amongst them reporteth of this matter Ministri nullam habent coërcendi potestatem nec habere volunt Tantùm cupiunt vt magistratus puniant eos qui ipsorum mandatis parere detrectarent Quod nunquam sunt facturi nisi prius de tota causa legitime recognouerint actoribus aut accusatoribus ministris consistorij Quod seniores ministri alienū à suo ministerio esse similiter iudicant In haec absurd a inciderunt propter reiectam episcoporum authoritatē c. The ministers there haue no povver to correct any man neither vvill they haue any Only they desire of the magistrats to punish such as should refuse to obey their cōmandements vvhervnto the magistrats vvil neuer yeeld except they may take notice of the vvhole cause againe by ordinarie course of lavv the ministers of the consistories making thēselues either plaintifs or accusers VVhich the elders and ministers do iudge not to be agreeable to their ministerie And they are fallen into these absurdities he had also before named some other through their reiecting of the authoritie of bishops You see their desire in this case and it may in mine opinion bee stretched to the former And then as I haue shewed through scandales offences consciences and I know not what pretences challenges and counterfait prerogatiues the iurisdiction of their elderships will be so large as the ciuile magistrats iudges and lawyers shall not need to be greatly troubled These things with all the premisses of this chapter considered I dare say you long to know by what authoritie they challenge to deale in all these so many and so infinite causes And to satisfie your longing the learned discourser shall first speake his mind Our sauiour Christ sayth he in the vvord church alludeth to the Ievves Sanedrim vvhich had the hearing and determining of all difficult matters amongst them the like vvhereof he vvilled to be established in his church for administration of gouernment What you will say but weightie matters How come they now to al matters euen to Robin-hood maigames and may poles Ye say truly but Cartvvright will supply this defect For indeed this discourser shot many bowes too short This vvas the policie and discipline of the Ievves and of the sinagogue saith he from vvhence our sauiour tooke this and translated it vnto this church that vvhen any man had done any thing that they held for a fault that then the same vvas punished and censured by the elders of the church And M. Beza Quod ius fuit Synagogae sub lege cur non valeat in ecclesia sub euangelio authore Christo Math. 18.17 non video I see not why the same authoritie that the Synagogue had vnder the lawe shoulde not continue now in the Church vnder the Gospell according to Christs institution in the chapter mentioned Indeede if Christ haue ordained any such matter it is good reason it should bee so But because they will needs bring vs to the Iewes let vs see what prettie tales they will tell vs of those times They say and it is true that the Priests were the Lawyers of the land And would they be so now If the same pollicie continue why should they not They tell vs further that in ciuill causes when there did arise anie doubt in law amongst the Iudges the decision thereof did belong to the Priests iurisdiction If that also were a good pollicie and that it be continued by Christ then I see no reason why it should not againe be now established in all places They say that the 17. of Deuteronomie from the beginning of the eight verse vnto the ende of the thirteenth doth intreat of the ecclesiasticall Senate where it is said that iudgements betweene bloud and bloud between plea and plea c. did belong to the priestes and that it was death for any man not to rest in his determination If this pollicie be in like manner continued who then in the common-wealth but the ecclesiasticall Elderships Matters of bloud and of all pleas Who would not take those points to be more ciuil causes It is true But they tell vs that when the priests dealt in any of those causes they dealt not in them ciuilly but ecclesiastically It will trouble a man to find out their sleights But one example to this purpose you shall haue When such a doubt did rise saith Beza Non de facto Not of the facte for that was meere ciuill but Deiure what the law was in such a case then the Ecclesiasticall Eldership determined thereof and that doone the ciuill Iudge gaue sentence of the facte accordingly As though there should be two Courts in Westminster hall one for matters of fact in ciuill and criminall causes consisting of temporall Iudges and another for matters of Conscience for all sortes of offences and for matters of lawe consisting of ecclesiasticall persons some Pastors and Doctors assisted in solemn maner with their church Aldermen Suppose then I pray you that you are by chaunce in Westminster hall such a difficult matter in lawe as is pretended commeth before the Iudges of some fact whereupon downe they come from their seats and go to the Elders May it please your Maisterships there is such a cause before vs which seemeth to be a foule matter if it fall out as the bill or declaration is laid what is the law in this point The Elders consult together resolue them The Iudges giue them a legge returne to their places the cause falleth out according to the complaint and so they pronounce the sentence as the Aldermen taught them Suppose I say all these things