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A47851 Dissenters sayings the second part : published in their own words, for the information of the people : and dedicated to the Grand-jury of London, August 29, 1681 / by Roger L'Estrange. L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1681 (1681) Wing L1245; ESTC R2228 59,550 94

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Colemanstreet Conclave Visited P. 1. 1648. P. 33 The Congregationall men swore to Endeavour Uniformity and yet practice this day Multiformity of Religions have put to the sale the Bloud of many Gallant men in Scotland that so they may buy with their lives Cursed Liberty of Conscience But will it not be bitterness in the End Rutherfords Free Disputation 1649. P. 256. We know no service to the State done by these men but that they set up with the sword all the Blasphemous and Hereticall Sects and Religions that Tho. Muncer or Iohn of Leyd●…n fancy'd contrary to the Oath of God Ib. 259. I. 34 Was there ever any thing done in the Bishops time or any thing attempted to be done by this Generation of men in the day of their Greatest Interest and Power in the Kingdom of that Bloudy Consequence to those Godly Persons Ministers or others whom they most hated and sought to crush as this Ord'nance to Prevent the Growing and spreading of Heresies c. if once Establish'd is like to be to far greater numbers of truly Pious and Conscientious Men. Some Modest and Humble Queries P. 7. Notes upon §. 3. I Shall not need to cut up this Section by Paragraphs but rather recommend it whole to the Consideration of any Indifferent Reader These are the People that assume to themselves the Title of the Kings best Subjects and the Church of Englands True-Protestants when yet at the same time they do with their own Lips and Pens declare themselves the Implacable Enemies of Order and of One another They call for Indulgence contrary to Law from those whom they themselves destroy'd for Living and Acting according to the Law and to whom so far from Mercy they never shew'd so much as Humanity or Common Pity They demand a Comprehension with that Church which they do Ioyntly pronounce to be Anti-Christian They make use of Religion and Tenderness of Conscience as their Plea for a Common Union with the Church and yet what is it but the same Pretense of Religion and Conscience that Causes all those Mortal Feuds among themselves What Religion can be expected from men of these Outragious Principles What Peace with so many Implacable Antipathies and Oppositions What Truth from such a Medly of Pernitious Errors and what Trust can be given to those that never kept Faith either with God or Man Nor ever agreed but in order to the Ruine and Confusion of the State Would they be United ye see 't is Dangerous and Impossible Dangerous in respect of the Publique and Impossible among Themselves for they make it no less then Matter of Damnation to Suffer one Another Now according to these Practices and Positions let the world Iudge of the Design §. 4. The Dissenters Behaviour toward the Government and first the Clergy 1 PErnicious Deceivers Presumptuous Shepherds Baalamites Blazing-Stars Glosing Hypocrites with God Fasting-Pharisaicall Preachers Miserable Guides Counterfeit-False Prophets Sycophants Trencher-Priests Conscience-Brokers Dangerous and Pestilent Seducers Sectary-Precise Preachers Trecherous Watchmen Sworn Soldiers of Anti-Christ c. Barrow and Greenwood Cited in Bancrofts Survey of Holy Discipline P. 355. 2 This new Parcell of Mockery and Iesuited Popery as bad as any in the Mass-book i. e. A Collection of Prayers and Thanksgivings used in his Majesties Chappel c. and publish'd by his Majesties Command 1644. 3 Croaking Frogs Clergy that crept into the Kings Chambers who are known by the Gutter whence they came out of the Dragon out of the mouth of the Beast and the False Prophet They are the Spirits of Devils who go forth unto the Kings of the Earth to gather them to Battle c. The Frogs Heads are like their Caps Quadrata Ranarum Capita Here is work for the Parliament that the King may have no more Croakers in his Chambers Wilson to the Commons Sep. 1642. 4 A Stinking Heap of Atheisticall and Roman-Rubbish a Rotten Rabble of Slanderous Priests and Spurious Bastard sons of Belial who by their Affected Ignorance and Laziness their False Doctrines and Idolatrous Superstitious Practises in Gods worship by their most Abominable Evil Lives and Conversations had like Hophni and Phinehas made the Lords Ordinances to be even abhorr'd by the People Vicars Iehovae Iireh P. 88. 1644. 5 Who among us 7. years ago Imagin'd that this Land should be healed of the two Great Plague-Sores of this Land viz. The Common-Pruyer Book and Episcopacy of the lesser Scabs of Deans and Prebends Chancellors Arch-Deacons Queristers Promoters c. Together with the Spiritual Courts and all the Trumpery of their Superstitious Ceremonies Loves Sermon at Uxbridge Ian. 30. 1944. P 29. 6 If Justice be at a stand and cannot take hold of Living Delinquents to keep the Ax from rust Let Justice be Executed upon Liveless Delinquents Are there no Altars no High-Places no Crucifixes c. Greenhill to the Commons Ap. 26. 1643. P. 37. 7 Throw away the Rubbish out with the Lords Enemies and the Lands Vex the Midianites Abolish the Amalekites else they will vex you with their Wiles as they have done heretofore Let Popery find no favour because it is Treasonable Prelacy as little because it is Tyrannicall but Establish God his Truth and ways Coleman to the Commons Au. 30. 1643. P. 64. 8 God was weary of our New-Moons and Sabbaths and the Calling of our Assemblies He could not smell in our Common Feasts our Sacrifices were an Abomination to him through the Noisomness of those Corruptions which Hophni and Phinehas Superstitious and wicked men in the Priesthood mingled with them Strickland No. 1944. P. 33. 9 The Hierarchy is become a Fretting Gaugreen and Spreding Leprosy an Insupportable Tyraany Up with it Up with it to the Bottom Root and Branch Hip and Thigh Destroy these Amalckites and let there Place be no more found Coleman to the Par. Au. 30. 1643. P. 39. 10 Our Cathedralls are in a Great part of late become the Nest of Idle Drones and the Roosting Place of Superstitious Formalities Coleman to the Commons Au. 30. 1643. P. 39 11 How was this Honourable and Famous City of London furnish'd Even just as Ieroboam furnish'd Bethel with the Idlest the most Superstitious of all the rest Id. Ibid. 12 An Ungodly Generation that weep with a Loud Voice and Complain their Gods are gone their God Episcopacy their God Liturgy the Organ and the Surplice the Cross c. Stanton to the Commons Ap. 24. 1644. Epistle 13 Our Religion and Liberties are setled by the Laws of the Land not so Israels in Egypt And therfore the Anti-Christian Party in their attempts to wrest them from us are more Unjust and cruell then of Old was Egypt Ibid. P. 5. 14 How many Dumb Devils are now casting out of many Parishes in the Land Bond to the Commons Mar. 27. 1644. P. 44. 15 What had we got if the Prelaticall Party had been set up What could we have Expected from them but superstitions Innovations Illegalities Bondage
as if Mr. Presenter had gap'd and the Devil himself had spit in his mouth But it is come to that pass now that a man cannot speak a word in favour of the Ecclesiastical Order and Discipline but it comes presently to be an Arraigning of the Commons in Parliament 4. The Observator is Charged with Endeavouring to Render his Majesties Protestant Subjects in general and more particularly those in this City suspected to him by mis-representations of and odious Reflexions upon their Legal proceedings in their Common-Halls and Common-Councils as also by False and Ignominious Reflexions upon some of their Magistrates and by Arraigning the Integrity of Juries of this City for bringing in Verdicts according to their Judgments and Consciences Be you your selves now the Iudges my Masters which are the rather to be Complaind of Those that Defame the most Eminent of your Citizens or those that Vindicate them Those that make it a Crime to be Dutiful to the King and the Church or those that Assert the Honour and Conscience of that Obedience And this is the very Case betwixt those Seditious Scriblers whom you have not touch'd at all and the Observator And which is yet more Remarkable After all your seeming Fierceness against Popery ye have not so much as Presented one single Papist What ye mean by odious Reflexions upon your Common-Halls and Common-Councils I cannot Imagine unless it be that some Notice has been taken of the Freedom of a Gentleman that said he knew before-hand London was to be Burnt and had several Checks as is reported from the Court it self for 't If that be the Point I shall take the freedom to tell ye that it is wonder'd at to this day that it was never put home to him how he came to the knowledge of it And though I am not Conscious of any one Disrespectful thought toward this Famous City in my whole Life saving in the Late Rebellion when the Fanatique Rabble had torn the Government of it to pieces by the same Methods that are now Prescrib'd and Practic'd over again by Hundreds of Enflaming Libels yet if such a thing had been I do not know how your Common-Halls and Common-Councils come to be more Sacred than the Debates of the House of Commons and of his Majesties Privy Council which are daily abus'd by Malicious Forgeries by Contemptuous and Defamatory Reflexions without Controll Provided only that the Misrepresentation be made on the Right side as in the Printed Copies of several Loyal Speeches and Unanswerable Reasonings in the Right of the Crown where only the general drift of the Speech is set forth without any thing mention'd of the Argument As to the Abusing of your Magistrates I am of opinion they would have found it out themselves if any such thing had been And then for your Juries bringing in Verdicts according to their Consciences they are Sworn to find according to Allegations and Proofs and not when the Law determines one thing for them to think another for at that rate 't is at their Choice to make an Honest man Guilty or a Criminal Innocent and at once to overthrow the Reason and the End of Government The Law says 't is Treason in the People to Conspire the Death of the King but the Phanatiques make it Treason in the King to deny the Sovereignty of the People as you will find abundantly and particularly clear'd in several Sections of this Pamphlet But neither is the Observator Chargeable even with this Article The Observator is lastly Presented for Endeavouring to Disgrace and Discountenance Religion it self by an Ironical Immoral and Atheistical of writing against such as he endeavours to Stigmatize by the name of True Protestants Now if I were well enough acquainted with ye Gentlemen I would most humbly beseech ye to Expound this word Religion Is it one Persuasion that is single and true to it self Or is it a Medley of Various and Disagreeing Opinions in the matters of Holy Worship Tell me now I beg of ye how it is possible to bring one and the same Truth to a Consistence with a hundred and fifty Divided Implicated and Inextricable Errors Nay and they are Boundless too for there are Monsters in Heresies as well as in Bodies which by a Promiscuous Liberty of Mixture and Confusion must necessarily produce still New and New Diversities to the end of the world But you shall have this Religion better Decypher'd by some of your own Doctors in the following Papers and I shall particularly remit ye to the Oracles of Dr. J. O. W. J. and R. B. And you will find in the Conclusion that the Uniting of Dissenters is just such another piece of Non-sence as the Separating of your selves together Now for the Appellation of a TRUE Protestant It is but calling of those People by the name which they have given themselves And not with any Regard to the Reformed Religion neither but in a Reflecting way of Discrimination from those of the Establishment for in the naming of themselves True Protestants and taking the whole Schism into that distinction what is this but to intimate that those of the Church are False Protestants from whom they have divided This is the first step toward the explaining of those False Protestants to be Papists But what they are they will tell you themselves if you will but consult their Sayings And I do not find that there belongs any great matter of Complement to this sort of True Protestants I should not have been thus free with ye Gentlemen before Company if the Observator had not prevail'd upon me to follow your Example in giving Countenance to the Publishing of so many thousand Copies up and down the City at the Election on Michaelmas day last and all over the Kingdom by a Scum of Mercenary Intelligencers Insomuch that whosoever gives Credit to those Papers must necessarily believe the Observator to be one of the greatest Rascals upon the face of the Earth And I do confidently Affirm that they are infinitely greater that Publish him so to be If the Presentment had taken place and the matter gone on in a due form of Law a man might have had a Speech yet for his money but this way of Proceeding runs to the Tune of Four and Forty and Condemning the poor Rogue to the Gallows over again without a hearing I would not be Ungrateful to any man any manner of way and I could not tell how to pitch upon a more suitable acknowledgment than by this Dedication First It was your Pleasure to set your Presentment abroad with a kind of a Noverint Universi and I have taken the best care I could here to make it twice as Publique as it would have been otherwise 2dly You were pleas'd to do Honour to the Observator by Printing your Names to the Scandal and for that Reason they are here likewise Exposed with his Vindication 3dly In regard that ye are men of Bus'ness and not
Person and Guilded over as a Rotten Nutmeg with Gold Vines to the Commons Mar. 10. 1646. P. 27. 18 We must not Judge of Faith by the Person but of the Person by the Faith Ibid. 19 That Horse of Superstition and Idolatry upon the Back of which the Devil hath in Former times made War against the Church is slain under him and now he is mounted upon a Fresh Horse of another Colour called Liberty of OPINION falsly call'd Liberty of CONSCIENCE Ibid. 20 If Conscience be warrant enough for Practices and Opinions and Liberty of Conscience be a sufficient License to Vent or Act them I cannot see but the Judicatories either of Church or State may shut up shop and be resolved into the Judicatory of Every mans Private Conscience Ib. P. 60. 21 The severall Bands of Anabaptists Antinomians Familists Libertines and Separatists are so multiply'd that they begin to threaten and speak Big words Walker to the Commons Jan. 29. 1644. P. 18. 22 The Hand of God is apparently gone out against your ways of Separation and Anabaptism Baxter to the Separatists April 20. 1655. 23 We do again renew our Solemn League and Covenant wherein the securing and ●…reserving the Purity of Religion against all Errour Heresy and Schism and namely Independency Anabaptism Antinomianism Armintanism Socinianism Familism Libertinism Scepticism and Erastianism and the carrying on the work of Uniformity shall be studi'd and Endeavour●…d by us before all worldly Interest Nepthaly Engagement to Duties 24 Ob. There are many of em the Sectaries Holy and Pious men A●…s Why should you think to say he is an Honest or a Pious man should be a Foolish Plea in the Case of abusing Coin Theft Treason or the like and yet should be of weight and force in this far greater Business Hodges to the Com. P. 58. 25 Now if Prophane or Erroneous Persons shall Excommunicate themselves from the 〈◊〉 Ordinances of Christ either by Negligence or going a whoring after any Sects or Schisms and say their Conscience must be free to do so then the Magistrate by his Positive Laws must fetch them in and Command Obedience to those Publique Ordinances in the Church as the Kings of Iudah did 2. Chron. 17. c. The Ordinances of Excommunication Stated and Licensed Iohn Downham Feb. 17. 1645. P●…ult 26 If the Parliament and Synod shall by Publique Consent Establish a Presbyteriall Church-Government as most consonant to Gods word Independents and all others are bound in Conscience to submit unto it under the pain of Obstinacy Singularity c. In case they cannot really by direct Texts and Precepts prove it diametrically contrary to the Scripture Prins Full Answer to Io. Goodwin P. 13. 27 That Courtesy which no man can obtain of the Independents where they have Authority viz in New-England That Courtesie should they not be Suiters for here in Old England Adam Stewarts Duply 1644. Part. 2. P. 162. 28 The Late Generall Assemblyes of the Church of Scotland and their Commissioners have born Testimony against Independency Erastianism Antinomianism Anabaptism c. A Testimony against Toleration from the Kirk of Scotland 1949. P. 2. 29 Sins Committed by the Misunderstanding of Gods word may be Punish●…d therefore Sins of Conscience Mr. Noise Minister of New England of the Power of Magistrates P. 72. 30 Schism of it s●…lf even with sound Doctrine in every Point is a most Grievous wickedness which exceeds all other wickedness I might out of the Fathers Enlarge and shew the great Evil of Schism both in it self and the Effects of it How 't is a greater evil to Rend the Church then to worship Idols Yea that Martyrdom it self cannot profit a Schi●…matique That 't is so great an Evil that the ●…loud o●… Martyrdom cannot blot it out So Cyprian and Chrysostom And God hath more Severely punish'd it then Murther and other great Crimes Korah Dathan and Ab●…ram for their Schism were punish'd more severely with the Earth opening and Swallowing them up Quick then Cain and then those who made an Idol Edwards Further Discovery P. 197. 31 If the Devil had his choice whether the Hierarchy Ceremonies and Liturgy should be Establish'd in this Kingdom Or a Toleration granted he would chuse and Prefer a Toleration before them and give up all those for a Toleration of divers Sects and different Churches Edwards Full Answer P. 257. 32. A Treatise against Toleration and Pretended Liberty of Conscience wherein by Scripture sound Reason Fathers Schoolmen Casuists Protestant Divines of all Nations Confessions of Faith of the Reformed Churches Ecclesiasticall Historics and constant Practice of the most Pious and wisest Emperors Princes States the best Writers of Politicks the Experience of all Ages yea by divers Principles Testimonies and Proceedings of Sectaries themselves as Donatists Anabaptists Brownists Independents the Unlawfullness and Mischief in Christian Common-wealths and Kingdoms both of an Universall Toleration of all Religions and Consciences and of a Limited and Bounded of some Sects only are clearly Proved and Demonstrated c. Edwards's Casting down the Last and strongest hold of Satan Notes upon §. 1. TOleration destroys Religion 1 All Errors in 't 2 Instead of Easing Consciences it takes away all Conscience 3 A scandalous Breach of Covenant 4 Contrary to the Gospel 5 And the Government of Christ. 6 The ready way to Popery 7. Erroneous Consciences not to be permitted 8 A Toleration of Independency is Intolerable contrary to the League and Covenant A Temptation to and a Confirmation in Error Destructive of Government The Root of Bitterness and Divisions and of manifold Errors 9 An Erecting of a Trade for the Butchering of Souls 10 A License to all Iniquity 11 It gives a Countenance to Euthusiasms and leads to Diabolicall Illusions 12 And trains us from one Sin to another 13 A Misguided Conscience is an Instrument for Satan 14 It carrys us from Schism to Heresy 15 Ruines Kingdoms Cityes and Familys 16 The Piety of a Person cannot Iustify the Error 17. 18 The Horse of Superstition and Idolatry 19 It Dissolves all Iudicatoryes 20 And threatens the Publique Peace 21 God hath declared himself against it 22 A breach of Covenant 23 A Sectary as Criminal as a Felon 24 Erroneous Persons Excommunicate themselves 25 Independents bound to submit to the Parliament and Synod 26 They that will not allow Liberty ought not to ask it 27 The Generall Assembly of Scotland Expressly against it 28 Sins of Conscience Punishable 29 Schism worse then Murder or Idolatry 30 Toleration is the wish of the Devil 31 Scripture Reason Fathers Schoolmen Casuists Protestant Divines and all the Reformed Churches against it 32 How comes it now to be so Criminall to deny these People a Toleration which they themselves account to be wholly Intolerable Or with what Face can they call the Refusal of that Liberty to themselves by the name of a Persecution which they look upon in all other Cases as against the Rules of Government and Conscience
Abihu and Saul will intermeddle with Gods Warrant as she Q. Eliz. hath done with matters of Religion with God's matters she must think it no Injury to be Disobey'd Soldier of Berwick Cited by the Author of an Answer to a Factious Libel Entitled An Abstract of several Acts of Parliament c. 2 Kings no less then the Rest must obey and yield to the Just Authority of the Ecclesiastical Magistrates Ecclesiastical Discip. P. 142. 3 The Consistory may and ought to admonish the Magistrate which is negligent in Punishing Vice Danaeus Par. 2. Isag. li. 2. Cap. 62. And also may upon Knowledge of the Cause taken Excommunicate even the Chief Magistrate unto the which he ought to submit himself Ibid. ca. 67. 4 Princes must remember to subject themselves to the Church and to submit their Scepters to throw down their Crowns before the Church yea to Lick the dust of the Feet of the Church T. Cartwright P. 645. 5 Every Eldership is the Tribunal Seat of Christ. Beza de Presb. P. 124. 6 The Holy Discipline ought to be set up and All Princes to submit themselves under the Yoke of it What Prince King or Emperour shall Disanul the same he is to be reputed Gods Enemy and to be held unworthy to Reign above his People Knox Exhort to Eng. P. 91. c. 7 Our Church-History tells that Mr. Andrew Melvin that Faithful and Zealous Servant of Christ would not answer before the King and the Council for his Alledged Treasonable Discourse in a Sermon until he had first given in a Plain and Formal Protestation and the like was done by Worthy Mr. David Blake upon the like occasion and the Protestation was Approved and Signed by a good Part of the Church of Scotland 1596. Hist. Indul. P. 14. 8 The Irreligiousness Antichristianism and Exorbitancy of this Explicatory and as to some things Ampliatory Act and Assertion of the Kings Supremacy in Church-Affairs of Nov. 16. 1669 this Supra-Papal Supremacy Hist. Indul. P. 27. 9 The Accepters of the Indulgence are Chargeable with High Treason against the King of Kings our Lord Iesus Christ. Hist. Indul. p. 86. 10 Christ breaks and moulds Commonwealths at his Pleasure He hath not spoke much in his Word how long they shall last or what he intends to do with them Only this That all Kings and Kingdoms that make War against the Church shall be broken a pieces and that in the end All the Kingdoms of the World shall be the Kingdoms of our Lord and his Saints and they shall reign over them Marshal to the Commons June 15. 1643. p. 47. 11 What was our Posture and Practice after we had so stupidly stood by till we saw the whole work overturn'd without offering to Interpose effectually to prevent its ruine or to fall with it Hist. of Indulgence Pref. 1678. Speaking of the Action of Bothwell-Bridge 12 The Father having given to Christ all Power both in Heaven and in Earth and the Rule and Regiment of this Kingdom he hath Committed to Monarchies Aristocracies or Democracies as the several Combinations and Associations of the People shall between themselves think good to Elect and Erect God leaves People to their own Liberty in this Case Case on Isaiah 43. 4. p. 26. 13 They were carrying on a Malignant Interest to wit The Establishing the King in the Exercise of his Power in Scotland and the Re-investing him with the Government in England when he had not yet Abandoned his Former Enmity to the Work and People of God and the securing of Power in their own hands under him Gillespies Useful Case of Conscience p. 66. 14 There was a sin in the Peoples Joyning because few or none of those who did Joyn did give any Testimony against the Magistrates Employing of the Malignant Party Ibid. 15 After the Treaty was brought to some close the King did before his coming to Sea Receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper from one of the Prelatical Chaplains and according to the Service-Book c. notwithstanding the Commissioners of the Kirk did represent the Evil thereof to him Gillespies Useful Case of Conscience Discuss'd p. 56. Another Exception That the King did not think his Father Guilty of Blood Ibid. 16 Was there not Cause to Scruple at the taking of this Oath of Allegeance which would have Imported 1. A Condemning of the Convention of Estates in Scotland 1643. 2. A Condemning of the Parliaments An. 1640. 41. 44. 45. 46. 47. 48. As also the Committees and Parliaments thereafter An. 1649. 1650. 1651. 3. A Condemning of all the Acts made by These Parliaments 4. A Condemning of all the Meetings Councils and Conventions of the Subjects at the beginning of the Late work of Reformation 5. A Condemning of the League and Covenant 6. A Condemning of Scotlands Joyning with and Helping of England in the day of their streight 7. A Condemning of the Renewing of the National Covenant 1638. 1639. 8. A Condemning of the General Assembly 1638. and several others thereafter 9. A Condemning of Scotlands Rising in Arms in their own Defence against the Popish Prelatical and Malignant Party 10. A Condemning of their seizing upon Forts and Castles in their own Defence An Apol●…getical Relation of the Sufferings of the Scotch Ministers 1665. p. 127. 128. 17 We ought to consider the Conditions of the Kings Letter of Indulgence to the Kirk Iune 7. 1669. what is accounted living Peaceably and Orderly by such as propose this Qualification And that sure to speak it in the smoothest of Ter●…s is a Negative Compliance with all their Tyranny Oppression of Church and Country Blood-shed Overturning of the Work of God Establishing Iniquity by Law Perjury Apostacy Re-establishing of Perjur'd Prelates and Abjured Prelacy Hist. of Indulg p. 7. 18 We Remarque further that the Letter saith that none of these Ministers have any Seditious Discourses or Expressions in Pulpit or Elsewhere And what is understood here by Seditious Discourses or Expressions we cannot be Ignorant But now what Conscientious Ministers can either Tacitly promise such a thing or upon the Highest Peril forbear to Utter such Discourses Or who can think that any such thing can be yielded unto who considereth what God requireth of Ministers in Reference to a Corrupted and Apostatized state And what the weight of the Blood of Souls is Hist. Indul. p. 11. 19 The Unparallel'd Perfidy and Breach of Covenant The most Abominable Irreligious Inhumane and Tyrannical Acts made for Establishing of this Wicked Course of Defection Hist. Indul. p. 12. 20 Christ and his Apostles were the Greatest of Conventicle Preachers and almost Preached no other way wanting always the Authority of the Supream Magistrate and yet not waiting upon their Indulgence Hist. Indul. p. 17. 21 They have power to Abrogate and Abolish all Statues and Ordinances concerning Ecclesiastical matters that are found Noysom and Unprofitable and agree not with the time or are abused by the People 2 Book of Discipline cap. 7. To