them all together viz. it unchristens the whole Church of God c. I say thus confessing that our doctrine unchristens whole christendome which the Pope hath called the Church of God but is indeed the whole world of Gentiles that hath got into the outer court the meer outward form and name of christianity and hath trod down the holy City and true worship for 1260 years that whole world that hath for ages and generations wondered after the beast nor is this inconsistent with the truth of Christs promises of his presence and guidance among those that are his true Church and people indeed for howbeit he hath according to the word left those to their own wayes that left and liked not his wayes yet he ever hath still doth and ever will lead those into truth that love the truth and will be led by his spirit when he will lead them yea though he tied not himself to teach them that should chuse the Pope for their Tutor yet according to his promise he hath bin more or lesse with those that observed what he commanded them in his word from the beginning and so shall be even to the end Review Lastly it doth the devils work in the shape of angels of light to make men renounce their baptism and if from Nero's hating the Christian Religion the antient Apologetist of the Church did rightly gather the goodnesse of it we may the validity of infants baptism from the devils hatred of it it hath ever been said of him he will not make a bargain with any soul till it hath renounced its first bargain which was made with Christ at baptism the Anabaptists are his Proctors and do it to his hand Re-Review Of which desire of his to have us renounce our baptism being not a little aware though immediately after I renounc't that Rantism I once had unawares to my self in the innocency and ignorance of my infancy in the room thereof received real baptism I had one messenger from Satan to buffet me and beat me off from further proceeding in and owning of that practise yet through the goodness of God and that grace of his wherein I still stand I was so far from being removed that I was much more settled strengthned and stablisht in the present truth wherein I walk and I trust shall walk in unto the end unlesse I receive more evidence to the contrary then ever I have done from any writings or any discourses of any that ever I met wiâ—h of what principle or profession soever which messenger whose name was William Everard after the flesh but the name that the father had given him was Chamberlin as he said for he lived in the secret chambers of the most high though he came to my house pretending that he was immediately sent from God with a message to me in particular viz. to renounce that practice of baptizing which himself had sometimes walkt in also but now relinquisht did to my self and some others after half a dayes most serious observation of his speeches strange extasies and uncouth deportment by many prodigious passages blasphemous pratings and as by experience we then proved them flatly false pretences to what he had not and most presumptuous yet successeless undertakings and frivolous fopperies of which I am willing at any time but not capable under a hours time to give fuller account to any that shall desire it discover himself to be one of the Archangels of darknesse which the devil now sends forth a new in the shape of angels of light and is now no lesse apparently I think to all that know him and where he is And howbeit it hath bin more then once but once especially as I have hinted to the Reader in a shrewd shake of sicknesse that befel me above a twelve moneth since to the great retarding of this work reported that I was shaken sheer out of my mind and judgement concerning this way and baptism so as to have recanted and renounced it yet I call my God to witnesse to whom also I give thanks for his mercy toward me in that particular that partly by the more then ordinary advantages I then had through my sequestration from all other occasions to seek the Lord to search and try my wayes and turn again unto him partly by the more then ordinary ingagements that were then upon me so to do and that seriously and sincerely through my dayly expectation to be clapt up in clods of earth till the great day of acccounts I have bin much more sweetly satisfied since then concerning the truth of this way then ever I was in all my life before neither did I then find any cause to repent me of coming to Christ in it as neither shall any that renouncing your Rantism do rightly receive it so they continue to walk uprightly in it to the end but this I must confesse I found good cause to repent of it that I had not honoured it so much as I might have done since I ownd it nor walked so profitably serviceably blamelesly holily and worthily in it nor so suitably to so holy and worthy a way as it is in it self not withstanding the account of basensse and foolishness that it hath in the world 1 Cor. 1.30 So that ever since that forenamed sifting I had from Satan by the mouth of that his Agent by whom he solicited me to forgo my baptism I side with you in this viz. that t is the Devils worke in the shape of an Angell of light to make men renounce their baptism and though I am somewhat otherwise opinioned about the Divels affection to infants baptism then you are for I think if he hate it t is as he hates holy water or any other of his own inventions wherby he hath juggled away the truth and imitated Christs ordinances out of doors yet I am fully of your mind that he so hates the true baptism I mean the baptizing of professed believers from whence I gather the goodnesse and validity of it against him that it is most of the business about which he is at work in the shape of an Angel of light in these daies wherein his time growes short and his old kingdome begins to fail him by means of the true baptism to erect to himself a new kingdome and in order thereunto to make men renounce that baptism as knowing that he cannot strike a downright bargain with a soul to become fully his as the high Notionists and spiritual Sensualists of these times do till it hath renounced its first bargain made with Christ in baptism not what was made with Christ at infant rantism for infants are not capable per se to bargain with Christ and how they do it per alios I do not see sith such as say they do it for them were never appointed by them so to do nor by Christ neither that I know of nor do I remember any bargain to own Christ and not be ashamed of
solid answer for if that be of force to prove a disannulling of that administration then it s of force much more against the acting of faith it self for as it s not said there from what the falling away shouâ—d be so it s expressely said elsewhere there should be a departure from the faith 1 Tim. 4.1.2 so that if the foretelling that there should be a falling away from the truth of ordinances prove that therefore there must be no practising of them now at all then there being a prophecy of a falling away from the right belief of the Gospel will evince that there ought now to be no right believing and so belike we do as ill in believing the Gospel now as in practising the ordinances of it but this will not not hold and therefore certainly not the other More over that thou maiest see how contrary thou art to the Apostles not in thy actings only but in thy arguings also consider that whereas thou admonishest men thereupon to be carelesse as concerning ordinances they even from their own predictions of a falling away from the purity of the primitive way stir the Saints up to so much the more dilligent and strict attendance to it Iude ver 3.4 from the very consideration of a future falling away exhorts the Saints not therefore to let go but earnestly to contend for that faith which was once delivered to the Saints and I appeal to the understanding of any one that hath not shut up his eyes from seeing and searching afteâ— the mind of God in the Scripture whether Paul doth not charge Timothy 1 Tim. 4 16.5.21.6.13 1 Tim. 3.14 to whom he had told it before in 1 Tim. 4.1 that there should be a departure from the faith even therefore as he would answer it before God to observe those things concerning outward discipline and Church order offices and ordinance in point of laying on of hands and other things of that kind as well as other that he in the name of the Lord had commanded him and to keep them without spot and unrebukeable even to the appearing of Jesus Christ and not onely to continue himself in the doctrine and things that he had learnt from Paul among which many were instructions for the right ordering of Churches 1 Tim. 3.15 but also to take special order for the continuation thereof downwards to succeeding generations without the least hint of any term or period of time wherein they of right should cease the things which thou hast heard of me among many witnesses the same commit thou to faithful men that shall be able i. e. after thy decease to teach others also 2 Tim. 2.2 and not onely so but whether he doth not in that very place thou alledgest viz. 2 Thess. 2.15 even therefore enjoin the Saints to hold fast the traditions or ordinances for so the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used here is truely enough reâ—dred 1 Cor. 11.2 because he had told them above that there should come one that should delude many with lyes whereas if Paul had argued as thou O Reasonâ—esse doest he must have said thus viz. there shall come a falling away from the purity of ordinances by a wicked one that shall tread them down therefore be not too stiff in standing for them but let go the ordinances which have been taught you whether by word or Epistle Peter also foreseeing and accordingly foreshewing that there should come scoffers in the last daies walking after their own lusts not Christs commands wills the Saints that should be in those last times as Malachi did the Jewes after a long deformation to remember the Law of Moses with the statutes and judgements Mal. 4 4. in which we now live to look back to and be mindful of the words that were spoken before by the holy prophets and the commandments of the Apostles of the Lord and Saviour 2 Pet. 3.2 as Iude also does in the self same words and upon the self same account Iude 17. And this I find to be the course of the Apostles all along upon foresight of the dark and declining time to refer the Saints of the last times to their primitive orders and by Arguments drawn from the stedfastnesse of the word of the old Testament in every tittle to shew much more a stedfastnesse in the new and a liablenes to punishment for every transgression and disobedience to this as there was for that Heb. 2 2-10.28 every jot of which was so stedfast that even tith of Mint Annis and Cummin which the Pharisees did ill indeed in so doting upon as to neglect the weightier matters of judgement mercy c. was neverthelesse not to be neglected Matth. 23.23 on pain of being accounted Robbers of God Mal. 3.8 and howbeit the greater and higher things of the Gospel as faith holinesse of life c. are not to be forgotten while we attend to lesser and lower yet how the law of Christ was so stedfast as that of Moses if it ly in the power of man or Angel to disannul the least particle of it till Christ himself who is the only abolisher of old dispensations and establisher of new do by his own next personal comming put an end to this as he did by his first comming unto that I am not able to imagine Thou tellest us Suppose the Saints and churches ought to have held fast their administration of ordinances to this day yet what of that the Churches have lost and let go that first outward form of service and Iezebe◠〈◊〉 â—hore hath got into the Temple and filled all with Idolatry and trod all the true way under foot and instead thereof set up her own ordinances and traditions the Clergy hath corrupted and depraâ—ved all that first face of outward worshâ—p therefore it s now no more to be meddled with for ever there must be no more raising the holy City in that form and way wherein it stood before no more Churches nor ordinances but did every any rational spirit argue thus viz. because the true appointed way of Gods worship was lost when it should have been therefore it must not be found recover'd nor returned to again when it may be surely the same rule reason warrant and command by which the Church was bound to have stood in the way of truth without falling away by the same is she now bound to rise from whence she is fallen or else I know not what Christ means when he saies to the Church at Ephesus Rev. 2.4 5. Remember from whence thou art fallen and repent and do thy first works c. Secondly by the same reason and ground that the Jewes returned from Babylon to Ierusalem and built the holy City and Temple that was the type when by the enemy Typical of our Gospel Babylonians the Priesthood and his people that have led the Church captive from her own border for a time times and a half even 70 years it was trodden underfoot and
began again to practise the word worship and ordinances of the old Testament so long abolished agreeably to Gods will by the same I say may the Gospel Church having now both light and liberty so to do return from under the power and tyranny of mystery Babylon and betake her self to her own border from whence she was driven to her own City Temple form of worship old Church order ordinances and service which were all by violence trod down and caused to cease for a time times and an half for 42. moneths or a 1260. years as that which by the might of men suppressing it hath lest not a jot of its right as that which is required of us now as the other was of them till Christ by his first comming put an end to that administration as he shall by his second unto this Thou tellest us no there is not the same reason Because First it was foretold that they should return again after a set period of time and how long Ierusalem should be trodden under foot even for seventy years and after that be built and her old form of worship restored Secondly they had extraordinary prophets Haggai and Zachary to attend them and dictate to them the mind of God in those things they did from God But I tell thee and thou wouldest see it thy self but that thou art minded to be blind First those Prophets spake nothing as by command from God to them then what they had a written word and Testament for out of Moses and the other prophets whom if they had in the least contradicted they must have been rejected as extraordinary as they were neither were they inciters of them to any new thing nor yet to any thing save what they stood bound to do before and had done still had those prophets never came neer them viz. to build the house of the Lord and set up their old worship according to the Testament of Moses those Prophets were sent because of their sluggishnesse and backwardnesse to act in it their preposterous caâ—e first to build and ceâ—l their own houses and let the Temple ly wast the while and to quicken them to that duty of building Gods for duty all the world may see it was or else how could the neglect therof have bin punishable and punished as it was with drought and blasting of all their endeavors to be rich before those Prophets spake to them Hag. 1.2 3 4 5 6 7 8 those Prophets came but upon occasion of their frustrating Gods expectation who looked that they should have begun to build the Temple of themselves but because he took them tardy in that work was put to it further then they had thank for even to send men of extraordinary spirits to stir them up as he may do if yet he do not and that not without need to us in these daies considering our untowardnesse and aversnesse to repair the breaches to build the old wasts and the Church desolations of many generations and our subjection to sleight the clear commands of his first Apostles it had been more thnnkeworthy and more accepâ—able to God if the Jews had acted by the Law of Moses and according to the written rule of the other Prophets then it was to forbear and to say that time was not a time wherein to build the Lords house and so it will be thank-worthy in us seeing as they had Moses and the Prophets so we have Christ and the Apostles to hear them and to act still according to their old commandements but to sit down under a written Testament in meer speculation and contemplation suspending all execution of Christs Antient known will unlesse there be some strange and unpromised manifestation of a new or of that old a new by some extraordinary messengers or by some sent unto us from the dead is that which God will con Christian men no more thanks for I think at the last then he did the redeemed Jews upon whom the like pretence was charged and punished by him as iniquity Hag. 1.4 Again are there not promises and prophecies of the like things to us in the New Testament as there were in the like case of treading down their worship to them under the old and as if not more clear then they had of a restitution was it not as distinctly foretold for how long our Gospel Babilonish captivity and treading down of the holy City Temple and true worship should last viz. for 42. months or a 1260 years as theirs was for 70 years after which it s most evident therefore it must rise again or else the spirit could not have determined the time of the treading down by a certain term of 42 moneths but would surely have said thus the holy City shall they tread down for ever or to the end of all time for if the old Jerusalem the Jewes their Temple and worship even the self same that was troden down for a resurrection or restoration is of the self same thing still and not another that was troden down or decayed had never been in the mind of God to have been raised again and restored the time of its laying wast could not properly be prefixed by such a period nor be stiled a 70 years devastation also was is not foretold to us that the little book of the New Testament that was to be shut up by that smoak of traditions and fog of errors that should arise out of the bottomlesse pit by means of the star or Bishop of Rome that opened the pit should be opened again and prophecyings be out of it before the world Rev. 9.1.2.3.10.1.10.11 yea is not the Gospel in that primitive purity and plaines from the simplicity of which all people have been bewitched by the whores sorceries begun again accordingly to be preached though as yet by too few practised is not that little book now open in the hand of the Angel Christ Jesus and are there not prophets that having eaten up that little book as Ezekiel did his role and Ieremy did the words of God when he found them Ezek 3.1.2.3 Ieremy 15.16 are paind within to speak the word to Peoples Nations Tongues and Kings as they were though for so doing they are like them also viz. men of strife and contention to the whole earth who so far as they incourage us to no more then what there is a written word for must be heeded by us in these daies as those Prophets were by them and is there not now a written Testament a sure word to give heed to and be a rule to us in our raising of the Aâ—â—ient form and order of Churches and Ordinances even the Testament of Christ himself who was as faithful to deliver his will punctually to his house as Moses was to a tittle to deliver the old will of God to his Heb. 3.5.6 in which word of his are we not bid as they Zach. 2 6.7 to come out of Babilon and be separate 2. Cor.
to be disciples then unlesse you have any special instinct whereby you know them to begin to be disciples and in the faith as many of you count them about that very houre you baptize them in and not before you will appear to be a little tardy in your dispensations by your own rule though in truth you are too hasty for all this Now as to Mr. Blakes terrible conceit concerning the coldnesse of the water specially in some weather when yet if dipping were the way there would by means of mens conversion occasion be ministred to dip in sith I see occasion will be ministred to discourse more of winter dipping when I come to Mr. Baxters grand Arguments with one of which this is coincident I shall say nothing to it here but there speak to both under one save only that I must here tell Mr. Blake that conversion of disciples necessarily happened when there was no season for dipping without danger the Climate being by reason of persecutions that rose against that way much more over hot then the Element of water can at any time be over cold for the owning of that serviâ—e must it therefore be forborn for fear of hazarding our lives if no exemption from a hotter service why from a colder for the lifes sake which whoever will save shall loose but whoever will loose for Christs name sake and the Gospels shall preserve it to life eternal as for the rest under that head I fully agree with it viz. that whatever that is there is commission but for one manner of baptism for all nations As to the multitude of Converts three thousand five thousand converted in one day which shift word for word Mr. Simpson covers his nakednesse with adding thus much thereunto viz. could Peter and those few with him the dispensers of this ordinance have stayed so long in the water or by dipping every one dipped so many in so short a time I answer how many and in how short a time does the man mean as for the 5000 it is doubtful whether they were all converted in that one day or whether he speaks not rather of the whole multitude that believed before which were 3000 together with those that afterward were added which might be some 2000 and so 5000 in all but if there were fullly 5000 that then believed and that they were all at the same time baptized too which is not said and t is more probable for done it must be that t was done at another time or else by other hands then by Peter and Iohns for they were laid hold on in the Temple as they were speaking but suppose I say that there be at any time full five thousand newly believing in so short a time as one day if they could not be baptized all in one day they must necessarily they might lawfully for ought I know stay till the next but yet 3000 we read were baptized in one day neither is it such an impossible thing as you who stumble at every straw are slugg'd by every rub and look on duty with such difficulty as if a Lyon were in the way would seem to make it for 5000 to be baptized in one day Multorum manibus Grande levatur Opus Multorum manibus Grande levatur Onus Many hands of them that have love to Christ may both lessen and lighten that service and suffering that is sustained for him and make burthensome performances and such I perceive it is to you tenderlings that make provision for the flesh to fullfill it in the ease thereof to dipp many or be dipped your selves in cold water or weather possible easie and pleasant and how many hands there might be at work at once at the dipping of the 3000 besides the hands of the 12. who as occasion was made use of others to dispense the ordinance it being an inferiour work to their preaching see Act. the 9. Act. 10. 1 Cor. 1. may be conjectured when the number of disciples were a hundred and twenty where if there were but forty dispensers with what ease might they baptize a 100 a piece and do themselves no more wrong neither with abiding in the water knee deep or a little more for half an hour together then he that stands deeper for almost a day together and washes many a hundred sheep as I have known some do and that not by plunging onely but longer padling with each of them by farre then need be in onely dipping persons and so letting them go again besides when once 3000 were baptized how many hands there were ready to baptize not 5000 onely but 5 times 5000 if occasion were and that quickly too is evident to any rational man that reckons it for it is a work which when it is once ready to be done is done in lesser time then I have seen taken up by the Parish Priest in his dropping and crossings and other font fidlings about an infants face and if you suppose it may ask so much hand for so many persons in so short a time as one day to make themselves ready for such a work I hope the same time that serves one to undresse and dresse in which may be some a quarter or at most not above half an hour may as easily serve ten thousand for as if all set at once to sweep every one his own door a whole City may be clensed in an instant so every one that is willing addressing himself to the work a thousand may be ready as soon as one And as for that other conceit of Mr. Blake which Mr. Simpson transcribes out of his book into his own letter in these words viz. that Paul when he was baptized by Ananias was not in case by reason of his weaknesse to be plunged in water over head and ears as he was not by reason of his stripes to have gone in a deep river or pond when he baptized the Iaylor it is as wisdomlesse as any of the rest for what if he were taken out of the stocks in the inner prison had such stripes that his convert was fain to wash them was he therefore so unfit or was it such a strange adventure as Mr. Blake proclaimes it to wade in the water for such a work as the dipping a few persons could that water that toucht his legs while he waded be more mischievous to him then the water that washed the blood of his stripes and when he was baptized himself what though he had fasted three daies from food in that sudden extasie of his mind which time its like he spent in fasting and prayer to the Lord for behold he prayeth saith the text yet I trow as dainty of danger as our Clergy men are that dare dip their fingers but not their feet in cold water for Christ that voluntary keeping under of his body did rather fit then unfit him for burial with Christ in baptism which his proud flesh would else not have stoopt to Surely Sirs you
may read as it were in text letters your own abstract from that of mine when you please and signing the Titles of the CCClergy whether true or surreptitious with three letters in the front as C. C. C. PPP c. most commonly when I speak of â—hem in the lump to denote the three PPParts into which that great City B B Babylon which they make stands divided I proceed as followeth That Heresies must be the Apostle hath said yet it makes no more for a tolleration of them in the true Church I mean though others mean in the civil state than that of our Saviour of offences saying foreseeing no question how by means of the Clergies crying out Heresie Heresie Schism against the way of truth being once turned aside to Heresie themselves the world would be offended at his little ones for walking in it They must come but wo to the man by whom they come the Apostle reckons Heresies among the works of the flesh Idolatry Witchcraft c. Gal. 5.20 which alone is argument sufficient against the Patronage and Invitation of them unless withal license in the true Church should be given to all other carnal sins why should the Church of God upon Earth make much of those against whom the Kingdome of Heaven shall be shut her pale is not so strong to keep them out from breaking in upon her like wild bores and wolves to spoil and wast her but her good will should not be so great to them as to wellcome them in to her fellowship till they repent from their dead works of superstition bloody tenet of persecution for cause of conscience worshipping God after mens traditions blaspheming the name of God and his Tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven trampling the holy City Heresie Schism from the primitive truth c. Neverthelesse howbeit to tolerate and harbour Hereticks in communion with them whilest they oppose the true way of Christ would be an error and an evill too intollerable in a true Church of Christ yet I hold that opinion of the C C Clergy not onely intollerably Heretical in it self but intollerably hurtful also to themselves that Hereticks may not be tolerated in a civil state for if Fines Prisons Banishments Racks Wâ—ips Tortures headings hangings burnings and such like punishments with the civil sword were the due of every Heretick and Schismatick in the faith as the C C Clergy have for ages and Generations born the world in hand that they are to the causing of all these their national Church censures to be inflicted on the Saints when they have once blindly sentence them to be Schismaticks to the civil power if this I say were the due of every Heretick or Schismatick and every true Heretick and Schismatick had his due too good Lord how have the C C Clergy condemned themselves out of their own mouthes to devastation when the civil powers shall find them to be the Arch-Hereticks in the world if taking them at their word they shall do with them as they say they ought to do in this case concerning others but God forbid that with what judgement they judge they should be judged and with what measure they meet it should be measured to them again at our suggestion if their own Cheek-by-jole carriage to the Stern-men of the State do not pull it unavoidably upon themselves yea verily though as far as those that oppose themselves against the truth of Christ they may well challenge the name of Schismaticall Hereticks and though Amen might justly be said by the Magistrate in this point to the opinion of Gangraena and his Gang and might Amen be said to his wise wishes as concerning us who teach and practise baptism in its primitive fashion we could expect to be suffered in the Common-wealth no more then High-way Murderers yet dare we not desire their exâ—irpation out of any of their native rights in the several states wherein they are nor such uncivill suppression of them meerly for their erroneous Tenets as they have sollicited the higher powers to concerning us we have not so learned Christ nor would they if they had heard him and had been taught by him as the truth is in Jesus for howere it comes to passe that the C C Clergy whose own the worst would he if that were true and execution done accordingly are so besotted as to believe that Hereticks and Schismaticks from the faith men of false waies worships religions though elsewise never fo peaceable and innocent must not onely be dischurched but discommunicated also from the patronage of the civil power and cut off from the priviledges of other Subjects yet neither Christ nor any of his Apostles as from him gave any order for such rigid rejection indeed the Apostle Paul wills in his Epistle to Titus cap. 3. who was a Church officer that a Heretick after a second and third admonition be rejected i. e. from the Church and Gal. 5.12 wishes that they were cut off from the Church that did trouble the Church and Rev. 2.20.21 the Church of Thyatira was reproved for suffering that woman Iezebel which calleth her self a prophetesse to teach and seduce his servants to fornication i. e. false worships c. but it will noâ— follow therefore that such may not have license to live civilly in civil states for the weapons of the Churches warfare wherewith she is to fight against Heresies and which she is ever to have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience to Christ by are noâ— carnall 2 Cer. 10.4 5 6. not such as are used by the officers of States but onely spirituall as admonition reproof and in case of obstinacy putting out from among them delivering up to Satan and not delivering up to the secular power as the Popish Priesthood used to do when any of their creatures specially of their Clerico-creatures turned Hereticks i. e. departed from their Heresies to the truth saying pray take him into your power and be merciful to him meaning hang or burn him for a Heretick The Church I say is neither to use the carnal weapons of the State nor yet to stirr up the State so to use them on her and truths behalf as to imprison fine hang burn or banish false worshippers unbelievers misbelievers or Hereticks further then they are withall as by meer unbelief they are not offenders against the civil State I find the Lord Christ foretelling by himself and his Apostles that for the most part the more is the pitty the Rulers Kings Governours and Princes of the world would be such enemies against his Gospel that his Disciples should be â—ald before them as evill doers for his names sake Matth. 10.18 that not many mighty and noble men would own his truth 1 Cor. 1.26 that rich men would oppresse the Church and draw them before their Judgement seats and blaspheme that worthy name wherby the poor in this world which commonly are the richest in faith are called Ia. 2.6 that the Kings
a tradition though more antient and reverent then some others as Mr. Rogers said of it and of which the church hath been posâ—est for 1500 years as Mr. Marshall a little more then he could undoubtedly prove too said of it is confest not onely by the Italian Clergy as Bellarmine who said it could not be proved by Scripture but as simply as our Clergy wrests the Scripture into the proof on t by the Remonstrants also who held it but as a very antient Rite that could scarcely be left off without great offence yea and Dr. Gouge also that would not be intreated to say ay or no to it at Dr. Chamberlains request now he sees people begin to pry into it did once acknowledge that it was a tradition of the church see Dr. Chamb. to Mr Bakewel p. 3. where he saies he hath under Mr. Barbers hand that he said so and used it as an argument to perswade him to take the oath ex officio And I desire all men to understand by these presents before whom we may happen to dispute this point hereafter that we declare against infant-sprinkling as a novelty in the faith and when we plead the dipping of believers as we are not in jest intending otiosam disputationem such idle dribling demi disputes and dainty dispatches as the Priesthood put us off with wherein he flams us i th mouth for an hour or two with the flap of a fox tail and lends us two or three licks of Latine and Logick and away again but a more serious earnest and constant course of conferring till the truth be tryed to the utmost so what we are so careful to contend for it is no new one but that old faith and baptism which was once delivered to the Saints this course of continued discourse though it suits not with such as seeing see not whose waies and courses are so much the more suspitious to be naught by how much the lesse they abide the light And a Modern Author whose Learning and Judgement lives in the Memories of many of our Kentish Clergy passed this sentence on it Pruritus disputandi scabies Ecclesiae yet I say is that the very life of the truth is so far concerned in that there 's very little of it comes to light in the CCClimate of the CCClergy by reason of their subtle sneaping things as much as may be out of sight that make against them I know the perverse disputings against the truth of men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth supposing that gain is godlinesse that t is reformation enough to mend the means of Presbyters out of the Bishops superfluities is the scabb of the Church of England indeed but I speak not of the pravity but purity of the disputation when plain minded men destitute of all self ends are minded to be serious and self denying and single-hearted in this work in order to more then either money or meer dispute it self nor is it Pruritus disputandi an itching simply after dispute for who are we simple Coblers Cartars Smiths Fishermen Farmers c. to stand before the wise and the Scribe and the disputer of this world in that work if God had not rejected them and made his wisdome foolishnesse but it is pruritus disprobandi a deep desiring of disproving your practises as Popish dispelling your smoak of errors and endeavouring to the utmost of our power according to what you have sworn us to in that kind to root out not by the civil sword but the plainnesse of the word your superstition heresie Schism and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine that disposes us to desire it Indeed The Heathen said it was a wicked custome to dispute about the Gods for thereby things certain are oft called into question nor have they said thus without reason considering what little strength of Reason they had wherwith to assertain it that their Gods were Gods at all but me thinks it should not be counted therefore a wicked custome among true Christians that own the true God unless to put forth such curious questions about God as the Schoolmen do viz. An deus potius non fuisse whether God could have chosen whether he would have been God or no and such like fooleries to dispute about their God and about his worship for fear it should grow more doubtful by discussing and howbeit considering the strong causes that commonly stiffen and harden the CCClergy in their Heresies or the utmost of their ends in disputing and some of those sorry effects that ensue there is but little encouragement to that work of disputing with them yet sith truth can likely be no looser by comming to the light nor is diminisht but displayed the more by how much it is discussed I see no reason why it should be declined and why Heteticks are not to be disputed withall and here it cannot be amisse If we consider 1 the Causes 2 the deâ—ign of Hereticks 3 the Common effects of disputation with them Among the causes of the CCClergies Heresies may be reckoned Amor sui a conceit of themselves a fancied perfection and purity in them more then others Amor sui primum aedificavit civitatem diaboli saith St. Austin self love first set up the divels Kingdome Even that great City BBBabylon that in three PPParts reigns over the Kings and nations of the earth for though there were many superstitions grown in uppon the Christians before in the first three hundred years yet the pompous Kingdome of Priests had no foundation whereupon to rise so long as the Roman Empire remained Heathen for then the very Bishops of the Church of Rome whom the Devil hath since made his Vice-gerents in the world were persecuted to the death by the devil himself acting in the heathen Emperors in bloody butchery against Christians yea the Ministers went under miserable martyrdome as well as others and kept indifferent close to the truth but when once the Dragon who fought against Michael and his Angels with open rage before and acted against them under the very name of Christians by his Angells the heathen Emperors and massacred Millions of Christians when he saw the Emperor himself Constantine the Great turned Christian and resolved to vindicate Christs cause and rescue the Christians from their bloody sufferings and finding that Michael and his Angels did now prevail against him and his cruel Cutthroats so that place must be no more found for them in heaven i. e. the high places of power in the Empire and that he could execute his wrath now no longer by them against the saints as Christians a Christian being now come to the Crown he had no other remedy now then to play his cards about another way and turn Christian also himself that he might have the fairer advantage to crush the true Christians that kept the commands of God and the faith of Jesus under the new nicknames of Hereticks Schismaticks c. that