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A16701 The apologie of the Romane Church deuided into three seuerall tractes whereof 1. The first, concerneth the antiquitie and continuance of the Catholike Romane religion ever since the Apostles time. 2. The second that the Protestantes religion was not so much as in being, at or before Luthers first appearing. 3. The thirde that Catholickes are no lesse loyall and dutifull to their soveraigne, then Protestantes. All which are vndertaken and proued by testimonies of the learned Protestantes themselues. Anderton, Lawrence.; Anderton, James, fl. 1624, attributed name. 1604 (1604) STC 3604; ESTC S119868 294,461 212

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of Christ 605. the professani company of Popery hath bene very visible and perspicuous Anno 607. at the furthest from Christ the papistes religion preuailed (m) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag 27. circa medium all Popes from Boniface the third being Antichristes And that since that time theire Church (n) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag. 16. paulo ante med fled into the Wildernes there to remaine a long season inuisible now Waldo who was many yeares before Wicliffe Husse begunne but (o) Act. mon. page 628 b. ante medium Anno 1218 so that betwixte him and the foresaid yeares of 607 were sixe hundreth and odd yeares for and during all which time no lesse then for the time since Waldo our aduersaries rest chargeable againe to answere for their churches continued administration of the Word and Sacraments wherat they stand wholly silent and confesse as before their defect therin being vnable to afford but any one exāple so much as of any one Kingdome Cittie or Village vpon the wholle face of the earth nor so much as of any one person liuing in the world professing their religion and celebrating their sacraments but during any one moment day or time within any one of all those said sixe hundreth yeares In further triall wherof to deale as now liberally with them and to admitt for true as well that Apocriphall and forged epistle printed lately at Basill written in behalfe of Priestes marriages in the name of Vtricke Bishope of Augusta vnto Pope Nicholas (p) For Pope Nicholas the first to whom this Vtricke should write was made Pope Anno. 858. enioying the same nyne yeeres two monthes xx daies dyed Anno. 867. as testifie Onuphrius in libro de Romanis Pontificibus vide Anastasiū Bibliothecarium de vitis Roman Pontific c. Printed Magnutiae Anno. 1602. pag. 305 fine 328. initio And Pantaleon in cronog p. 70 wheras Vtricke was not made Bishope of Augusta till after the death of Pope Nicholas viz. Anno. 924 Vide Vrspergensem in chronic Chitreum in Chronic. Pantaleon in chronic page 75. and continuing Bishope 50. yeares dyed Anno. 973. Beuther l. Fastorum page 209. And see Pantaleon in Chronograph page 75. and Osiander in epitom histor eccles cent 9. 10. 11. 12. c. page 99. fine 100. ante medium sundry yeares either before that Vtricke was borne or els after that Pope Nicholas was dead as also that other though perhaps more auncient yet no lesse forged (q) It appeareth by the booke of Pope Adrian vnto Charles which booke is extant tom 3. Concil and in many thinges long since specially cited by Iuo and purposely written in confutation of that other booke vnder Charles his name that the same was then forged by some hereticall enimie against Images and lying booke written against images (*) Caluin in institut l. 1. c. 11. sect 14. Insinuateth it to be forged about Charelemaines time saying extat refutatorius liber sub Caroli magni nomine quē ex dictione colligere licet eodem fuisse tempore compositum Vnder the name of Carolus Magnus who in deed was not onely an extreme enemie (r) Ioanas Aurelianensis who liued in those times affirmeth l. 1. pro imaginibus that Claudius Taurinensis who impugned images durst neuer publish his doctrine therof during the life of Carolus magnus And Paulus Aemilius l. 2. hist Franciae such that Carolus magnus sent 12. Bishops vnto a Councell holden at Rome by Pope Stephan●● in confutation of the error of the Greekes against images Hereof also see the Centurie writers cent 8. c. 9. col 570. And Mr. Cowper late Bishope of Lincoln in his Chronic. fol. 174. b. circa med repo●teth of certaine Bishops sent by Adrian to Charles who held a Councell in Fraunce against the condemnation of images c. to all those that impugned Images but was also as the learned Protestants (s) Hereof see Luc. Osiander in epitom hist eccles cent 8. pag. 101. circa med and Mr. Cowpers Chronic fol. 173. a. post med 175. b. paulo ante med Foxe in Apoc. page 436. paulo post med And Crispinus in his booke of the estate of the Church page 221. paulo post med 226. initio circa med And Hospinianus in epistola dedicatoria hist sacramentar circa med saith Imperator Carolus magnus non solum publicis edictis mandauit vt ceremoniae ritus itemque Missa latina Rom. eccles aliaque decreta placita instituta Romani Pontificis per totum imperium obseruarentur sed ipsemet etiam carceribus ac varijs suppliciorum generibus ad hoc ipsum cogebat ecclesias was this man then like to impugne the Church of Rome in her doctrine of Images confesse wholly denoted to the Romane Church And to admit likewise the booke written of the Sacrament and set forth lately not without great (¶) In so much that Pantaleon in his chronogra pag. 65. mencioning Bertram and his other writings forbeareth yet to mencion this booke or to charge him with this pretended opinion suspition by Oecolampadius vnder Bertrams name to be in deed that aunciēt booke which Bertrā is mencioned to haue written de Corpore Sanguine D●mini to King Charles the balde and that also this present booke were not doubtfull (t) This booke is so perplexedly and doubfullye penned and vseth the wordes figure spirituall misterie with such qualifications and so fully also withall affirmeth the presence of Christs Body vnder the veile or couerture of bred that it affordeth no plaine sense against the Reall presence but plaine and direct against the Reall presence which thing the Centurie writers vtterly denie (v) Centur. 9. c. 4. col 212. It is said Transubstātiationis semina habet Bertramus In so much also as our auncient Catholicke writers nearer to those times doubteth not to honour Bertram (x) Hospinianus in hist sacramentaria l. 4. page 317. paulo ante med mencioneth this at large for a holy Martir of their Church and Illiricus accordingly for beareth to name him in his (¶) Illiricus in Catall test ver printed Basiliae Anno 1556. Catalog of Protestant witnesses And to admit lastly the exāple of Berengarius Archdeacon of Angiers denying Transubstantiation and that he had not as he after did (y) Act. mon. pag. 13. a recanted that his opinion and had also bene free from all those other confessed errors wherwith Oecolampadius and other Protestant writers charge him (*) Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij Suinglij l. 3. page 710. fine saith Berengarius nonnulla affirmabat aduersus Coniugiū Baptismum paruulorum and page 711. deinde etiam Berengarius parum candidè incessisse deprehenditur and page 712. initio Damnata est Berengarij opinio nimirum sacerdotio parum Christiano minus tribuens And see Papir Masson in Annalibus Francorum l. 3. in Hugone Roberto where it is said that
conclude with Caluin who setteth downe our foresaide allegation saying of vs (l) Caluin institut l. 4. c. 2. sect 2. saith Magnifice illi quidem suam nobis Ecclesiam comendant allegant enim ●am apud se initio sana Doctrina sanguine Martirum bene fundatam perpetua Episcoporum successione conseruatam fuisse ne intercideret commemorant quanti hanc successionem fecerunt Ireneus Tertullianus Origenes Augustinus alij They in deede sett forth their Church to vs very gloriously c. They reporte out of Ireneus Tertullian Origen Augustine and others how highly they esteemed this succession Whereto he then aunswereth and giueth his like reason thereof saying (*) Cum extra controuersiam esset nihil a principio vsque ad illam aetatem mutatum fuisse in Doctrina sumebant quod omnibus nouis erroribus conficiendis sufficeret illos opugnare Doctrinam ab ipsis vsque Apostolis constanter vnanimi assensu retentam Caluin vbi supra l. 4 cap. 2. sect 3. Considering it was a matter out of all doubt that from the beginning euen vntill that time nothing was changed in Doctrine the fore-saide holy Doctors tooke in argument that which was sufficient for the ouerthrowing of all new errors to witte that they viz. the heretickes oppugned the Doctrine which euen from the very Apostles them selues had bene inuiolablie and with one consent reteined And in his booke of Institutions set forth in French he saith expresly that (m) Caluin in his institutions in French Printed at Gaeneua by Corradus Badius Anno. 1562. saith C'estoyt vne chose notoire sans doubte que depuis L'ange des Apostres iusques a lour temps il ne S'estoit fait nul Changement de Doctrine ny a Rome ●y aux autres villes It was a thing notoriouse without doubt that after the Apostles age vntill those fore-said times no change was made in Doctrine neither at Rome nor at other Citties So plainely do our learned aduersaries acknowledge that no change of faith was made by the Romane Church from the Apostles age vntill the times of Saint Austine Epiphanius Optatus c. Which was for foure hundreth and fortie yeares after Christ The Church of Rome being then thus cleared from all change of Doctrine at the least concerning any needfull article of faith which is the only point now pertinent and questionable during aswell the first 440. yeares after Christ as also the other thousand yeares now last past There remaineth only to be examined the interim of those 160. yeares which passed betweene the saide first 440. and the saide other last 1000. yeares in which meane time if no such supposed change was then doth it hereof vnauoidably follow that as the Church of Rome at first receaued and professed the right faith so likewise she doth yet still to this day continew and preserue the same The matter being as then euen from the testimonies of our learned aduersaries made thus issuable and plainely deduced to this certainety or narrow compasse of time we haue here often prouoked thē to giue example or instance of this their supposed change in the Romane Church during the saide meane time of 160. yeares In full discouery of which point we will breifly vrge three speciall reasons next ensuing As First seeing the scriptures do witnes to vs aswel that Christ hath placed in his Church (n) Ephes 4 11 12 13. Pastors and Doctors to continew to the consummation of Saints vntill we all meete in the vnitie of faith euen as our aduersaries do here-vpon expounde (o) Mr. Fulke against the Remish testament in Ephes 4. fol. 335. a. initio And Caluin institut Printed Geneuae 1550. c. 8. de fide sect 37 38. p. 233. 234. melancthon in loc Comun Printed 1561. c. de Ecclesia for euer as also that these (p) Esay 62 6. watchmen or (*) See the margi notes of the English Bible of Anno 1576. in Esay 62 6. Pastors (q) Esay 62 6. shall not be silent but shall as Mr. Fulke confesseth (r) Mr. Fulk in his aunswere to a counterfaite Catholicke pa. 11. initio alwaies resist all false opinion euen (s) Mr. Fulke ibidem pa. 92. ante medium with open reprehension which thing is also other-wise most euident in that by the Iudgment of all men (t) See this confessed hereafter tract 2. c. 1. sect 6. in the margent at the letter m. tract 1. c. 2. sect 13. in the margent at the letter r. Christes true Church must euer continew but the true Church she neither is nor can be if she faile so much in dutie as to suffer so many supposed errors to assaulte inuade her Children without some open defence and resistance to the contrarie Therefore so many and so important Doctrines as Merit of workes Praier for the dead Praier to Saints Free-will Reall presence Adoration of Christ in the sacrament Sacrifice of the Masse The vnmaried life of Priestes and so many other moe such like could neuer supposing they were errors haue in so small a compasse as of those saide 160. yeares bene brought to haue bene as then begunne and publickly professed by the Romane Church without greate difficultie of resistance and open reprehension of some one or other Godly man in some parte of the true Church The examples (u) These examples are yet extant and to be found in Ireneus in libro aduersus haereses And in Epiphanius and Augustine in their seuerall bookes against haeresies aswell of the times then precedent wherein were so contradicted but for some one or other seuerall opinion The Valētinians Tatianists Manichees Arianes c. As also of the ages then subsequent in which were in like sorte contradicted the seuerall (x) These examples are collected out of the Fathers of euery of those ages by the Protestant writers as namely by the Centurie writers in their fifte Chapter of euery seuerall Centurie See also Pantaleon in his Chronologie and Osiander in his seueral centuries other heresies of euery age and all yet to this day manifouldly recorded giue plentifull demonstration herein The like examples also of the very foresaide 160. yeares now in question afforde no lesse euidence hereof for euen as then were contradicted for their seuerall opinions to vs yet at this day discerned and knowne not only the (y) Aug. l. de haeresibus ad quod uultdeum haer 88. Pelagianes (z) Aug. ibidem haer 91. Nestorians (a) Aug. ibidem haer 69. Donatists (b) Sexta sinod Constantinop and see Centur. 6. col 311. line 37. Monothelites c. But also which argueth this matter most inuinciblie and clearely for vs and against our aduersaries sondry heretickes for theire then priuate and singular denying as protestants now do sondry points of our now professed Catholicke faith The vndoubted examples whereof are many and by our very aduersaries acknowledged So euen in or which is
c. Cur ergo anxie curiose probant quod est a nobis nunquam negatum c. And ibidem page 241. initio he saith Visibilis est propter exercitia pietatis quae videntur ab omnibus in Ecclesia nam dum ministri docent alij discunt illi sacramenta administrant hij communicant c. qui ista non videt talpa est caecior visibilis est quia notae sunt insignes conspicuae c. and page 242. initio he saith non enim clancularij se●essus c. conuocationes sunt Christianae and page 281 fine he affirmeth concerning the Church militant which is the onely pointe in question ●portere Ecclesiam esse conspicuam conclusionem esse clarissimam the Churches euer visibilitie condemning the contrarie opinion of the Churches pretended Latencie or inuisibilitie for a monstrouse (f) Melancthon in Concil theolog part 2. saith necesse est fateri esse visibilem Ecclesiam c. quo spectat haec portentosa oratio qua negat esse vllam visibilem Ecclesiam page 393. fine 394 initio assertion (g) Mr. Henoch Clapham in his soueraigne remedie against schisme page 17 ante medium saith Contrary to all scriptures they do affirme that there hath bene no visibilitie of the Church for former hundreth of yeeres whi●h position is against Psalm 72 3 17. Esa 59 21. contrary to all scriptures against which our Sauiour did as they thinke specially forewarne vs saying (2) Math. 24 23. whereupon mr H●noch Clapham in his soueraigne remedie against schisme page 23. post med saith Our Sauiour forbides going out vnto such desert and corner ghospels Math. 24 23 24 26. and S. Austine tom 4. quaest euang l. 1. quaest 38. saith accordingly Constituta ergo authoritate Ecclesiae per orbem terrarum clara atque manifesta consequenter discipulos admonet qui in eum credere voluerint ne schismaticis atque hereticis credant vnumquodque enim schisma vnaquaeque heresis aut locum suum habet in orbe terrarum partem aliquam retinens aut obscuris atque occultis conuenticulis curiositatem hominum decipit Ad quod pertinet quod ait si quis vobis dixerit Ecce hic est Christus aut illic quod significat terrarum partes Prouinciarum Aut in penetralibus aut in deserto quod significat obscura occulta conuenticula haereticorum c. And see him further contra Faustum Manich. l. 13. c. 13. If therfore they shall say vnto you Beholde he is in the deserte go you not forth Beholde he is in secrete places beleeue it not In so much as they also affirme the visible dispersion therof euen for that (3) Reuelat. 12 12 17 10. 20 3. short time during which she is foretould (4) Reuelat. 12 6. to flee into wildernes by reason of Antichrists persecution to which end Mr. Fulke though most precise in this behalfe is yet enforced to confesse that (5) Mr. Doct. Fulke against the Rhemishe Testament in 2. Thessa 2. sect 5. fol. 354. b. fine the true Church th●●gh obscure and driuen into wild●rnes by Antichrist yet still continued dispersed ouer the world and that (6) Mr. Fulke ibid. fol. 355. a. initio to this like effecte see Mr. Whitaker in his answere to master Rainoldes preface pag. 34 37. mr Foxe in Apoc. page 349. post medium in the time of Antichrist it was not driuen into any corner of the world but was is and shall be alwaies dispersed in many nations and that not obscure but as Bullenger saith (*) Bullenger vpon the Apocalips fol. 200. a. fine b. initio see the words of Bullenger hereafter in the margent at the figure 3. tract 2. c. 2 sect 11. right famous which pointe the text it selfe doth also most inuincibly argue for as it affirmeth that the womans flight into wildernes must continue (7) Reuelat. 12 6 1260 dayes so likewise it affirmeth that the preaching of the Word must as then continue in like maner during euen the same terme of 1260. dayes (8) Reuelat. 11 3. and must so be as generall as the persecution a matter so vndoubted that Szegedine saith hereupon (9) Szegedinus in tabul Analatic page 368 circa medium the ministers of Gods word shall preach all the time in which Antichrist shall tread vnder foote the holy Cittie And Mr. Gifford saith likewise (10) Mr. Gifford vpon the reuelations serm 21. page 191. fine these two witnesses are not to be taken for two and no moe but for all those which were raised vp to impugne Antichrist and that they should prophecie during all the time of Antichrists reigne In like testimonie wherof the other (11) See Mr. Fulke against the Rhemishe Testament fol. 475. b. sect 4. and Bullenger vpon the Apocalipes in c. 11. fol. 142. b. post medium Protestant writers are very plentifull THAT PROTESTANTS TO PROVE THE answerable performance therof for former ages in their Church do alleage promiscuously both Catholicks knowne Heretickes as members of their Church SECT 2. THIS continued visible administration of the Word Sacraments being the confessed sense of the scriptures and without which the true Church cannot be we will now examine somewhat concerning the answerable performance therof In which point when we prouoke our aduersaries there is nothing more vsuall with them then for theire owne defence in this behalfe to search out in the examples of former times for all such whatsoeuer as may be said though often falsely in any sorte to haue impugned the Pope but so much as in any one pointe either of manners or doctrine And although they were otherwise neuer so different from Protest●nts yet are they in these straites promiscuously registred by our aduersaries in the Catallog of the Doctors of their Church In this sorte are named (*) See hereafter tract 2. c. 2. sect 7. in the margent there at the figure 2. concerning Ioannes de Rupe Scissa and Willm de S. Amore and see cōcerning Peter Bloix claimed by Mr. Gabriell Powell in his consideration c. pa. 52. initio Osiander incentur 12. page 281. post med where he saith Petrus Blesensis c. Pricipum Prelatorum religiosorum priuatorum peccata grauiter arguit c. non tamen Pontificios errores refutauit was this man then a Protestant Ioannes de rupe Scissa Willielmus de S. Amore and Peter Bloix for thei● onely reprouing the life maners of the Cleargie for this onely cause also are named (¶) Concerning Willm Occam read act mon. printed 1596. page 358. a sin 88. b. line 40. and of Scotus see Foxe ibid. page 130. b. line 8. Osiander cent 9. page 44. and of Ioannes Gaudauensis read Foxe vbi supra page 358. 2. line 88. William Occam Iohn Scotus and Iohn Gaudauensis In like vniust maner is named (h) By Mr. Sparke in his answere to Mr. Iohn d'