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A88176 A discourse betwixt Lieutenant Colonel Iohn Lilburn close prisoner in the Tower of London, and Mr Hugh Peter: upon May 25. 1649. Published by a friend, for the publick benefit Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657.; Peters, Hugh, 1598-1660. 1649 (1649) Wing L2100; ESTC R9855 7,247 8

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one another but they all Center in this end to get the Spectators money from them I leave you to make Application And I tell you moreover the last year when the stirs began when Sir John Maynard and the four Aldermen were prisoners here at the Tower You came and took up your lodging at Col. Whits under pretence of reposing your selfe and being nigh your businesses being bound in all haste to New-England as you said although you never intended it I am confident of it in the least but meerly came hither upon a Design finely coloured over to work a complyance in Sir John Maynard and the four Aldermen to your great Masters that so seeing the City baffled of their Liberty they might come off with as little losse of Reputation in their deliverance as might be and I believe some such thing if not worse in the bottom of your visiting of me at this time But he Replyed very bitterly and earnestly againe and againe calling God to witnesse he had no design the last year upon Sir John Maynard and the Aldermen in his comming to the Tower nor upon me in his comming to visit me and told me I need not be so passionate there was no feare of the losse of my life To which I Replyed to this effect Sir I know you and your Masters so well and that you have so couzoned and cheated all Parties and Interests that ever you dealt with so visibly and evidently never keeping either faith promise or engagements with any of them longer then it served your present turns it being beyond a maxime long since amongst some of you so to do that I doe protest unto you both for you and them I will not believe one word yee say swear or protest but the more earnest you or they are in any of them the more jealous I will be of you and therefore know this for hereafter that where ever I meet your Masters or any of their under depending tribe I will be upon my Guard as though I were amongst a company of the arrentest cheaters and deceivers in the world by whom I hope I shall never be cozoned any more with credulity and honesty for I will never hereafter believe you though I should bee glad you would deceive me once againe in doing good to the poore Nation for it is easily in you power but I believe you will never doe it and for my life if I were to lay it down to morrow I would scorn to beg or intreat for it from any of your Masters and if it be in no danger it is no thanks to them for I am confidently perswaded in my very heart it is not mine an hour longer then they dare take it away either by hook or crook but it may prove a choak pear to them when ever they goe about it But Sir said I I thought I had been safe enough when I squared my actions by the Rules of those Laws that they have often sworn declared and promised year after year and month after month to maintain and defend and make as the standard or touchstone betwixt them and the people as they have done with the Petition of Right c. I but saith he I will shew you your great mistake in that particular and that your safety ●●es not therein so I longed to hear that Well saith he their mindes may change and then where are you I but Sir said I I cannot take notice of what is in their mindes to obey that but the constant Declaration of their mindes without ever so much as in any one Declaration contradicting it as that they will maintain the Petition of RIGHT and the Liberties therein contained must bee the rule of my obedience And the Petition of RIGHT by reason of their constant Declarations to preserve it I make the rule of my obedience and actings amongst men and think I shall be safe thereby but when they shall publiquely declare They scorn the Petition of RIGHT and will neither maintain that nor any other Laws or compacts amongst the men of this Nation but what flows daily from their wils and pleasures I shall alter my minde and expect no benefit by the Petition of RIGHT but when that is let me tell you I shall rather desire to live in Turkie under the great Turk then in England under your Religious Masters at White-hall and Westminster for there is no such Tyrant or persecuter in the world as an Apostate that one turns his back of Justice Righteousness and truth But Mr. Peter as for things at present tell your Masters from me That if it were possible for me now to chuse I had rather chuse to live seven years under old King Charls his government nothwithstanding their beheading him as a Tyrant for it when it was at the worst before this Parliament then live one year under their present Government that now rule nay let me tell you If they go on with that tyranny they are in they will make Prince Charl● have friends enow not only to cry him up but also really to fight for him to bring him into his Fathers Throne that so they may have their just desires of perfidious cruel bloody Tyrants and the people of the Land some ease and rest from their insupportable burthens and oppressions Yea and for my particular I must aver unto you I had rather by many degrees chuse to live under a regulated and wel-bounded King without tyrannie then under any Government with Tyranny Here is the substance of my discourse with Mr. PETER saving I pinched him a little particularly upon his great Masters large fingering of the Common-wealths money which was no better then Theft in them and State-Robbery in the highest as I told him I but saith he ●reton hath got none Then said I former Reports are false and besides if he have not what need he when his Father-in-law gets so much for them both as 3 or 4000 l. per annum at one clap with well-nigh twenty thousand pounds worth of wood upon it if Parliament mens relations may be beleeved besides the People that know them know the Father and Son piss both in one gullie though they seem somtime to go one against another yet it is but that they may the more easily and throughly drive on the main design of them both viz. To make the People slaves And so farewell Mr. Peter Finis