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city_n country_n king_n time_n 4,088 4 3.1487 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A78783 His Majesties finall ansvver concerning Episcopacie. Delivered in to the commissioners of Parliament the first of Novemb. 1648. England and Wales. Sovereign (1625-1649 : Charles I); Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649. 1648 (1648) Wing C2306; Thomason E469_17; ESTC R205464 21,665 30

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he_o deliver_v it_o so_o cautious_o say_v only_o it_o may_v be_v probable_a but_o as_o that_o which_o for_o the_o present_a come_v first_o into_o his_o thought_n and_o be_v sufficient_a for_o his_o purpose_n without_o the_o least_o meaning_n thereby_o to_o prejudice_v other_o interpretation_n as_o namely_o of_o those_o expositor_n who_o take_v the_o word_n with_o the_o bishop_n and_o deacon_n as_o belong_v to_o the_o person_n salute_v and_o not_o to_o the_o person_n salute_v to_o this_o sense_n paul_n and_o timotheus_n the_o servant_n of_o jesus_n christ_n with_o the_o bishop_n and_o deacon_n to_o the_o saint_n at_o philipi_n etc._n etc._n or_o of_o those_o who_o affirm_v and_o that_o with_o great_a probability_n to_o that_o epaphroditus_n be_v then_o actual_o bishop_n of_o philippi_n but_o not_o to_o be_v mention_v in_o the_o inscription_n of_o the_o epistle_n because_o he_o be_v not_o then_o at_o philippi_n but_o with_o st._n paul_n at_o rome_n when_o that_o epistle_n be_v write_v any_o of_o which_o conjecture_n if_o they_o be_v true_a as_o there_o be_v none_o of_o they_o utter_o improbable_a that_o place_n of_o phil._n 1._o 1._o will_v not_o do_v you_o much_o service_n in_o this_o question_n in_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n the_o apostle_n direct_v and_o admonish_v they_o as_o bishop_n particular_o concern_v ordination_n of_o minister_n that_o they_o do_v it_o advise_o and_o ordain_v none_o but_o such_o as_o be_v meet_o qualify_v for_o the_o service_n of_o the_o church_n which_o direction_n and_o admonition_n his_o majesty_n believe_v for_o the_o substance_n to_o belong_v to_o all_o bishop_n of_o after_o time_n aswell_o as_o unto_o they_o but_o his_o majesty_n see_v no_o necessity_n why_o in_o those_o epistle_n there_o shall_v be_v any_o particular_a direction_n give_v concern_v the_o ordination_n of_o bishop_n at_o least_o unless_o it_o can_v be_v make_v appear_v that_o they_o be_v to_o ordain_v some_o such_o in_o those_o place_n nor_o perhaps_o if_o that_o can_v be_v make_v to_o appear_v in_o as_o much_o as_o in_o those_o epistle_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o signification_n of_o any_o difference_n at_o all_o between_o presbyter_n and_o deacon_n in_o the_o manner_n of_o their_o ordination_n both_o be_v to_o be_v perform_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o to_o both_o comprehend_v under_o that_o general_a rule_n lay_v hand_n sudden_o on_o no_o man_n but_o only_o and_o that_o very_o little_a and_o scarce_o considerable_a as_o to_o the_o make_n of_o distinct_a office_n in_o the_o qualification_n of_o their_o person_n the_o ordination_n therefore_o of_o bishop_n presbyter_n and_o deacon_n be_v to_o be_v perform_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o the_o same_o qualification_n after_o a_o sort_n save_v such_o difference_n as_o the_o importance_n of_o their_o several_a office_n make_v which_o be_v more_o in_o the_o degree_n then_o in_o the_o thing_n be_v require_v in_o both_o it_o have_v be_v sufficient_a if_o in_o those_o epistle_n there_o have_v be_v direction_n give_v concern_v the_o ordination_n and_o qualification_n of_o but_o one_o sort_n of_o church_n officer_n only_o as_o in_o the_o epistle_n to_o titus_n we_o see_v there_o be_v of_o presbyter_n only_o and_o no_o mention_n make_v of_o deacon_n in_o the_o whole_a epistle_n whence_o it_o may_v be_v aswell_o conclude_v that_o there_o be_v to_o be_v no_o other_o stand_a officer_n in_o the_o church_n of_o crete_n but_o presbyter_n only_o because_o s._n paul_n give_v no_o direction_n to_o titus_n concern_v any_o other_o as_o it_o can_v be_v conclude_v that_o there_o be_v to_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n in_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n but_o presbyter_n and_o deacon_n only_o because_o s._n paul_n give_v no_o direction_n to_o timothy_n concern_v any_o other_o xi_o reply_v 23_o 27._o as_o to_o the_o age_n succeed_v the_o apostle_n concern_v the_o judgement_n of_o ecclesiastical_a writer_n about_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o episcopacy_n his_o majesty_n conceive_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v more_o in_o their_o expression_n then_o in_o their_o mean_v some_o call_n it_o divine_a other_o apostolical_a and_o some_o but_o not_o many_o ecclesiastical_a but_o that_o the_o superiority_n of_o bishop_n above_o presbyter_n begin_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o have_v its_o foundation_n in_o the_o institution_n either_o of_o christ_n himself_o or_o of_o his_o apostle_n his_o majesty_n have_v not_o hear_v aerius_n except_v that_o any_o till_o these_o latter_a age_n have_v deny_v for_o that_o which_o you_o touch_v upon_o concern_v the_o word_n infallible_a his_o majesty_n suppose_v you_o know_v his_o meaning_n and_o he_o delight_v not_o to_o contend_v about_o word_n as_o for_o the_o catalogue_n some_o uncertainty_n in_o a_o few_o a_o frailty_n which_o all_o humane_a history_n be_v subject_a to_o his_o majesty_n take_v to_o be_v insufficient_a to_o discredit_v all_o difference_n there_o be_v in_o historiographer_n in_o recite_v the_o succession_n of_o the_o babylonian_a persian_a and_o macedonian_a king_n and_o of_o the_o saxon_a king_n in_o england_n and_o we_o find_v far_o more_o inextricable_a intricacy_n in_o the_o fasti_fw-la consulares_fw-la the_o catalogue_n of_o the_o roman_a consul_n notwithstanding_o their_o great_a care_n in_o keep_v the_o public_a record_n and_o the_o exactness_n of_o the_o roman_a history_n then_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o episcopal_a catalogue_n those_o especial_o of_o the_o chief_a city_n as_o jerusalem_n rome_n antioch_n alexandria_n ephesus_n etc._n etc._n yet_o as_o all_o man_n believe_v there_o be_v king_n in_o those_o country_n and_o consul_n in_o rome_n in_o those_o time_n so_o as_o you_o may_v well_o foresee_v will_v be_v answer_v the_o discredit_v of_o the_o catalogue_n of_o bishop_n in_o respect_n of_o some_o uncertainty_n although_o his_o majesty_n doubt_v not_o but_o many_o of_o the_o difference_n you_o instance_n in_o may_v be_v fair_o reconcile_v tend_v rather_o to_o the_o confirm_v of_o the_o thing_n itself_o that_o which_o you_o say_v in_o answer_n hereunto_o that_o the_o ecclesiastical_a writer_n call_v they_o bishop_n incomplyance_n to_o the_o language_n of_o their_o own_o time_n after_o the_o name_n of_o presbyter_n and_o bishop_n be_v distinguish_v but_o that_o they_o be_v not_o indeed_o bishop_n in_o the_o proper_a sense_n now_o in_o question_n his_o majesty_n who_o believe_v the_o distinction_n of_o those_o name_n to_o have_v begin_v present_o after_o the_o apostle_n time_n if_o not_o rather_o while_o some_o of_o they_o be_v live_v do_v consequent_o believe_v that_o as_o they_o be_v call_v so_o they_o be_v indeed_o bishop_n in_o that_o proper_a sense_n it_o appear_v by_o ignatius_n his_o epistle_n every_o where_o how_o wide_o the_o difference_n be_v in_o his_o time_n between_o a_o bishop_n and_o a_o mere_a presbyter_n if_o hierom_n only_o and_o some_o a_o little_o ancient_a than_o he_o have_v apply_v the_o name_n bishop_n to_o person_n that_o live_v some_o age_n before_o they_o there_o may_v have_v be_v the_o more_o colour_n to_o have_v attribute_v it_o to_o such_o a_o compliance_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o but_o that_o they_o receive_v both_o the_o name_n and_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o relation_n from_o unquestionable_a testimony_n and_o record_n his_o majesty_n think_v it_o may_v be_v make_v good_a by_o many_o instance_n for_o example_n to_o instance_n in_o one_o only_a polycarp_n bishop_n of_o smyrna_n who_o be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o angel_n of_o that_o church_n in_o the_o revelation_n ignatius_n who_o be_v contemporary_a with_o he_o write_v one_o epistle_n to_o he_o and_o send_v salutation_n to_o he_o in_o another_o as_o bishop_n of_o smyrna_n many_o year_n after_o irenaeus_n bishop_n of_o lion_n in_o france_n who_o write_n be_v never_o yet_o call_v in_o question_n by_o any_o not_o only_o affirm_v he_o to_o have_v be_v constitute_v bishop_n of_o smyrna_n by_o the_o apostle_n but_o say_v that_o he_o himself_o when_o he_o be_v a_o boy_n have_v see_v he_o a_o very_a old_a man_n tertullian_n next_o a_o very_a ancient_a writer_n affirm_v that_o he_o be_v bishop_n of_o smyrna_n there_o place_v by_o st._n john_n after_o come_v eusebius_n who_o in_o his_o ecclesicastical_a history_n not_o only_o historical_o report_v of_o his_o be_v bishop_n there_o as_o he_o do_v of_o other_o bishop_n but_o cit_v also_o for_o it_o the_o testimony_n both_o of_o ignatius_n and_o irenaeus_n which_o by_o the_o way_n give_v good_a credit_n to_o ignatius_n his_o epistle_n too_o then_o hierom_n also_o and_o other_o last_o attest_v the_o same_o and_o it_o can_v be_v doubt_v but_o eusebius_n and_o hierom_n have_v in_o their_o time_n the_o like_a certain_a testimony_n and_o ground_n for_o sundry_a other_o who_o they_o report_v to_o have_v be_v bishop_n which_o testimony_n and_o record_n be_v not_o all_o come_v to_o our_o hand_n for_o the_o
testimony_n of_o clemens_n and_o ignatius_n his_o majesty_n say_v first_o that_o though_o it_o be_v not_o reasonable_a that_o the_o testimony_n of_o one_o single_a epistle_n shall_v be_v so_o make_v the_o adequate_a measure_n of_o clemens_n his_o opinion_n as_o to_o exclude_v all_o other_o proof_n from_o his_o example_n or_o otherwise_o yet_o his_o majesty_n since_o clemens_n be_v first_o name_v by_o you_o and_o the_o weight_n of_o the_o main_a cause_n lie_v not_o much_o upon_o it_o be_v content_a also_o for_o that_o matter_n to_o refer_v himself_o to_o that_o epistle_n second_o that_o his_o majesty_n can_v not_o but_o use_v some_o earnestness_n of_o expression_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o ignatius_n against_o some_o who_o have_v reject_v the_o whole_a volumn_n of_o his_o epistle_n but_o upon_o such_o argument_n as_o have_v more_o lessen_v the_o rephtation_n of_o their_o own_o learning_n than_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o epistle_n in_o the_o opinion_n of_o moderate_a and_o judicious_a man_n and_o yet_o blendellus_n la_o very_o learned_a man_n though_o he_o reject_v those_o epistle_n confess_v notwithstanding_o the_o ancient_a father_n give_v full_a credence_n thereunto_o the_o apostle_n you_o say_v do_v not_o ordain_v themselves_o bishop_n of_o any_o particular_a place_n and_o yet_o the_o bishop_n of_o some_o particular_a place_n be_v report_v in_o the_o catalogue_n to_o have_v be_v successor_n to_o such_o or_o such_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o even_o the_o name_n of_o such_o apostle_n be_v enter_v into_o the_o catalogue_n to_o this_o his_o majesty_n say_v that_o the_o apostle_n be_v formal_o bishop_n by_o virtue_n of_o they_o mission_n from_o christ_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o do_v neither_o ordain_v themselves_o nor_o can_v be_v ordain_v by_o other_o bishop_n of_o such_o or_o such_o particular_a city_n although_o his_o majesty_n know_v not_o but_o that_o they_o may_v without_o prejudice_n to_o their_o apostleship_n and_o by_o mutual_a consent_n 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of_o the_o apostle_n as_o have_v either_o first_o piant_v the_o faith_n or_o place_v bishop_n or_o make_v any_o long_a abode_n and_o continuance_n or_o end_v their_o day_n among_o they_o yet_o do_v not_o the_o true_a title_n of_o be_v successor_n to_o the_o apostle_n thereby_o accrue_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o those_o place_n more_o than_o to_o other_o bishop_n but_o all_o bishop_n be_v equal_o successor_n to_o the_o apostle_n in_o two_o other_o respect_n the_o one_o for_o that_o they_o derive_v their_o ordination_n by_o a_o continue_a line_n of_o succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n the_o other_o for_o that_o they_o succeed_v into_o the_o same_o apostolical_a power_n and_o function_n which_o the_o apostle_n as_o ordinary_a pastor_n have_v your_o motion_n to_o reduce_v this_o whole_a dispute_n to_o scripture_n alone_o be_v the_o more_o reasonable_a if_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n be_v proper_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o yet_o even_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n as_o the_o 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majesty_n his_o majesty_n rest_v very_o much_o unsatisfied_a that_o you_o have_v now_o again_o whole_o decline_v the_o answer_v of_o those_o three_o question_n so_o clear_o propose_v by_o he_o which_o yourselves_o also_o confess_v to_o be_v of_o great_a importance_n upon_o this_o only_a pretence_n that_o the_o whole_a volumn_n of_o ecclesiastical_a policy_n be_v contain_v in_o they_o whereas_o his_o majesty_n do_v neither_o expect_v nor_o require_v from_o you_o any_o large_a or_o polemical_a discourse_n concern_v those_o question_n but_o yet_o do_v conceive_v you_o be_v in_o order_n to_o his_o satisfaction_n and_o your_o own_o undertake_n in_o some_o sort_n oblige_v to_o have_v declare_v in_o few_o word_n what_o your_o judgement_n be_v therein_o with_o the_o ground_n thereof_o that_o so_o his_o majesty_n may_v have_v take_v the_o same_o into_o his_o further_a consideration_n than_o which_o nothing_o can_v have_v more_o condue_v to_o the_o inform_v of_o his_o judgement_n and_o the_o 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majesty_n think_v himself_o excusable_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o reasonable_a man_n if_o he_o can_v as_o yet_o be_v induce_v to_o give_v his_o consent_n to_o the_o utter_a abolition_n of_o that_o government_n in_o the_o church_n which_o he_o find_v here_o settle_v to_o his_o hand_n which_o have_v continue_v all_o over_o the_o christian_a world_n from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n until_o this_o last_o age_n and_o in_o this_o realm_n ever_o since_o the_o first_o plantation_n of_o christianity_n as_o well_o since_o the_o reformation_n as_o before_o which_o have_v be_v confirm_v by_o so_o many_o act_n of_o parliament_n approve_v as_o consonant_a to_o the_o holy_a word_n of_o god_n in_o the_o article_n of_o our_o religion_n and_o by_o all_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o well_o by_o their_o personal_a subscription_n as_o otherwise_o so_o attest_v and_o declare_v and_o which_o himself_o in_o his_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n have_v for_o these_o many_o year_n be_v and_o yet_o be_v persuade_v to_o be_v at_o least_o of_o apostolical_a institution_n and_o practice_n true_o his_o majesty_n can_v but_o wonder_v what_o shall_v be_v the_o reason_n of_o your_o great_a shyness_n and_o unwillingness_n to_o discover_v your_o mind_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o so_o great_a &_o necessary_a consequence_n and_o for_o a_o final_a conclusion_n of_o this_o whole_a dispute_n which_o his_o majesty_n think_v fit_a to_o shut_v up_o with_o this_o paper_n he_o must_v plain_o tell_v you_o that_o your_o endeavour_n to_o have_v give_v he_o satisfaction_n in_o the_o question_n propose_v will_v have_v add_v much_o in_o his_o opinion_n to_o the_o reputation_n of_o your_o ingenuity_n in_o the_o whole_a undertake_n it_o be_v not_o probable_a you_o shall_v work_v much_o upon_o his_o judgement_n whilst_o you_o be_v fearful_a to_o declare_v your_o own_o nor_o possible_a to_o relieve_v his_o conscience_n but_o by_o a_o free_a declare_v of_o you_o nevertheless_o his_o majesty_n like_v well_o of_o your_o prayer_n in_o the_o close_a of_o your_o paper_n and_o think_v you_o shall_v do_v very_o well_o to_o join_v therewith_o your_o utmost_a possible_a endeavour_n towards_o the_o settle_n of_o truth_n and_o a_o happy_a peace_n in_o this_o unsettled_a church_n and_o kingdom_n finis_fw-la