Selected quad for the lemma: city_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
city_n	citizen_n	commonalty_n	name_n	4,372	4	8.0501	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A27361	A iustification of The city remonstrance and its vindication, or, An answer to a book written by Mr. J.P. entituled, The city remonstrance remonstrated wherein the frequent falsifyings of the said Mr. J.P. are discovered, the many charges by him laid upon the remonstrance and its vindicator, disproved, and the parity and agreement of the remonstrance ... with the propositions, declarations, remonstrances, and votes, of both or either House of Parliament manifested / by John Bellamie.	Bellamie, John, d. 1654.; Price, John, Citizen of London. City remonstrance remonstrated.	1646 (1646)	Wing B1814; ESTC R4476	42,384	58

by the fundamentall Constitution of the Kingdome I humbly also conceive that there is just reason for it too and that not onely from the relation which these three Estates have one to another but also because of that interest which one Estate hath in another The King being no otherwise King of England but with relation to the subjects of England and so he hath an interest in them and they are his liege that is his lawfull Subjects or his Subjects according to the Law And likewise the Lords and Commons of England are no otherwise Subjects of England but with relation to the King as hee is the King of England in whom also they have the like reciprocall interest and so he is their liege our lawfull Soveraigne or their King according to the Law and thus runs the formes of our Laws viz. Bee it enacted by the King our Soveraigne Lord with the assent of the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament Assembled But the City of London by the Charter of Edw. 3. in the 15 yeare of his Reigne hath a power granted to the Major and Aldermen and their successors with the assent of the Commonalty to make lawes for the common profit of the Citizens of the same City by vertue of which grant the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Court of Common-Councell assembled being therin as one entire Court the representative Body of the City doe to this day make Laws which are alwayes binding to the Citizens of the same City And there is no other consent required to the consummation of these Laws but the sole and onely authority of this Court and therefore all our Acts of Common-councell are made in the joint names of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in the Court of Common-councell assembled and by the authority thereof and in the addition of any branch in an act of Common councell it is still thus exprest It is by this Court further Ordered c. Or this Court doth further Order c. which doth fully prove that all the power of making or altering or adding to the City lawes rests wholly and alone in the body of that one Court of Common-councell or the greater number of them which doth alwayes consist of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons but all the power of making or repealing or adding to the lawes of the kingdome doth not rest wholly and alone in the House of Commons but the concurrent consent of the other two Estates viz. the King and the Lords is necessarily required to this of the Commons for making or repealing of the Laws of the Kingdome And thus I hope I have answered your first head of Queries arising from that question viz. wherein resides the Supreme power of the Kingdome I shall now likewise endeavour to give a solution to your Argument and all the satisfaction I can to the second head of your Queries For a foundation to build your Arguments upon you produce an Argument of mine out of my Book entit●led A Plea for the Commonalty of London thus it is That Court which hath a power to make a law and by that law to conferre a power upon the Lord Major and Aldermen which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before must needs bee quoad hoe as unto the making of a law above the Lord Major and Aldermen But this Court of Common-councell hath c. Ergo this Court of Common-councell so farre as to the making of a Law must needs bee above the Lord Major and Aldermen Answ. I owne the Argument and for confirmation of what I t●●re affirmed concerning the power of the Court of Common-councell I made it good and proved it d● facto by an act of Common-councel made in the sixth yeare of Hen. 7. upon the 15 of Aprill concerning the choice of the Chamberlaine of London and the Bridge-masters of the City as by reference to the said Book appeareth and I would willingly see what you have to say against it But upon this in your 25 page you thus argue That Court which hath the power to make a law and by that law to conferre a power upon the King and Lords which as King and Lords they had not before must needs be quoad hoc unto the making of a law above the King and Lord But the House of C●mmon● which say you speaking of mee is the kingdome representative even as the Common-councell is the City representative upon your suppos●tion hath a power c. Ergo the House of Commons so far as unto the making of a law must needs bee above the King and Lords But I pray you tell me is there no difference between the Court of Common-councell and the Commons in Common-councel I told you even now in page 42 that the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Common-councell assembled being therein one entire Court are the representative body of the City I never said the Commons in that Court were so and if you had been pleased to have perused that Booke of mine you cite to this purpose and out of which you take my argument viz. The Ple● for the Commonalty of London in page 10. where I instance in four severall acts of that Court viz. the removing of Deputy Ald●n from the Court Mr. Iohn Wilde from being Town Clerk Mr. Tho. Wiseman from being the City Remembrancer and divers Aldermens Deputies from their places of Deputyship you might there have found that I thus conclude it viz. And all this by the joint and concurrent power of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in this Common-councell assembled And what though the Court of Common-councell which alwayes consisteth of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons have a power to conferre upon the Lord Major and Aldermen that power which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before as I fully proved and therefore without the least mutation am still of the same mind and in that respect as unto the making of a Law are above the Lord M●jor and Aldermen as the whole is above a part● But will it hence follow that the Commons in Common-councell alone and by themselves have either this power to conferre a power upon the Lord Major and Aldermen which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before or that they are above them If you will argue from my assertion bee sure you keep my terms and then see how it will advantage you for the confirmation of your argument I grounded this power of making City Laws from the Charter of Edw. 3. in the 15 yeare of his Reigne And in the same Book of mine out of which you took my argument you might also have had my authority for it it is in page 7 in these words Wee have granted further for us and our heires and by this our present Charter confirmed to the Major and Aldermen of the City aforesaid that if any customes in the said City hitherto obtained and used be in any part difficult

or defective or any thing in the same newly happening where before there was no remedy ordained and have need of amending the same Major and Ald●rmen and their successors with the assent of the Commonalty of the same City may adde and ordaine a remedy meet faithfull and consonant to reason for the common profit of the Citizens of the same City as oft and at such time as to them shall be thought expedient which Charter was confi●med by act of Parliament 43 yeares after in the 7 of Rich. 2 Now if you can produce the like authority granted alone to the House of Commons by the Parliament that they of themselves without the consent of the King and the Lords have power to make lawes for the Kingdome as by this Charter the Lord Major Aldermen and their successors with the assent of the Commons of London haue for the City then you hit the bu●ines a●ight indeed but otherwise I thinke your argument is not true And therefore for after times let me advise you that if you will imitate an argument in the words of it be sure you imitate it also in the proofes of it and let them be as full and cleare for the confirmation of what you affirme for it is not words though never so smooth that proves any thing in matters of fact as this is And truly should I have laid down that argument to prove the power of the Court of Common-councell as unto the making of City laws to bee above the Lord Major and Aldermen and not have proved it de facto by the acts of the Court of Common-councell I should have thought it at least to have been a scandalum Magnatum against the Lord Major and Aldermen and very blame-worthy in my selfe to have done it But perhaps you think the condition of the King and the Lords to bee such as that whatever you speak or publish concerning them tending to the annihilating of their legislative power and authority in Parliament can neither be an offence to them nor a fault in you or if it bee it seemes you regard it not but I hope you will not take it amisse if as I did in that so I desire you in this either to produce a proof d● facto to make good that the House of Commons hath by an Act of that House alone conferred a power upon the King and Lords as King and Lords they had not before which are the very word● of your argument or else in plaine English to tell the Reader● that though you can transcribe the words of my argument which a childe of ten yeares old can doe as well as you yet now upon second thoughts you must needs confesse you come very short in a parallel proofe of it there neither now being nor never was any act of the House of Commons that doth prove that that House alone and by it selfe did ever make a law which did confer a power upon the King and Lords which as King and Lords they had not before and without this proofe I perswade my selfe no man will beleeve that as unto the making of a law the House of Commons is above the King and Lords though Mr. I. P. affirmes it to bee so And this I give not onely as a solution to this your argument but also to the other arguments which follow viz. concerning the power of the House of Commons alone without the King and Lords to repeale what lawes they think meet and to make laws and rules for all the Courts and people in England to bee steered and acted by and whereunto say you the King himselfe is bound by his Oath and therefore ought in duty to cons●ut and likewise to that which you say will follow from my logick viz. that the Kingdome representative is inferiour in its power in reference to the government of the Kingdome then the City representative is in reference to the government of the City and to the other Queries which you ground upon them for they all alike hang upon this string and if in the opinion of the Reader to whose judgement I referre it this be ●ut asunder I am sure they must all then needs fall to the ground and therefore I shall not need to trouble my self any more with them And now Mr. I. P. I have endeavoured with all the candor and tendernesse I could to examine your Book and have not I hope let one word fall from mee that in the least measure doth reflect upon your person for it is the matter of your Book and not any of your personall infirmities for alasse the Lord know● I have work more then enough to meddle with and to master my own or other your supposed errors in matters of Religion that I encounter with And if we cannot yet agree in this present difference and debate my earnest desire is and I trust ●y endeavour shall for ●ver be answerable thereunto that wee may manage the matter with that sweet moderation and temper of Spirit as becommeth Christians for of this I am confident that though through weaknesse or error in judgement perhaps mine not yours we cannot agree together to live in one Church fellowship or communion here upon earth yet we shall for ever mutually enjoy communion and fellowship with God the Father with Christ with the blessed Spirit three Persons in one Essence and with the holy Angels and the glorified Saints for ever in heaven And therefore I beseech you while we yet live here in this vale of teares let us remember and obey that counsell the Apostle gives us Philip 3. 15 16. Let us therefore as many as bee perfect bée thus minded and if in any thing you bee otherwise minded God shall reveale even this unto you neverthelesse whereunto we have already attained let us walke by the same rule let us mind the same thing I shall gladly imbrace and entertaine any truth of God which shall by you bee held forth unto mee with the warrant of his Word and as willingly leave and forsake whatever either in opinion or practice I now hold or doe that shall bee made apparent to be dissonant thereto for I solemnly professe unto you that I labour not for Masteries neither desire I to give the last blow I esteem it no shame to be conquered when Christ proves the Victor nor no losse to bee vanquished when the Truth prevailes for it's verity not victory that shall be my comfort A POSTSCRIPT I Have at this time no more to say either to your selfe or to your Book but in one word to let the Reader know that my desire and endevour to afford you all the faire quarter that possibly I could in this our Conflict about this Subject was such That I did upon Saturday the 8 of this instant August in the presence of Mr. Samuel Clarke Pastor of Bennet Fynck London and of Mr. Iames Story and Mr. Henry Overton two of yours and of my owne acquaintance shew you in Writing this my Justification of the City Remonstrance and its Vindication before ever I tendered it either to be Licensed or Printed and desired you to peruse it and if there was any thing in it either for matter of Fact or otherwise that you could justly except against I would expunge it and it should never see the light And when you would not accept of that offer I then read some passages in the Epistle to you which I told you that in my apprehension they were the things which most nearly concerned your Person this I did to manifest my unwillingnesse to let any thing passe from mee that might bee either prejudiciall to the Truth or justly distastefull to your Person and if it be possible to overcome evill with good FINIS In the absence of the Author these following Errata's escaped in the printing of the Vindication which I pray thus Correct Page 2. line 23. for you will charge read you will not charge p. 6. l. 30. for and Sectaries ● of Sectaries p. 7. l. 1. for till r. the p. 8. l. last for stated r. sacred p. 14. l 22 for finde in r. finde it in l. 24. for these their words r. these are their words p. 23 l. 27. for elected r erected p. 26. l. 26. for ones Poesie r Ovids Poesie

you put this question seriously to your own soul whether the same act done in the same kind by Mr. Edwards against the Independents c. be a vice and blame worthy and y●t being done by Mr. J. P. against a Presbyterian or a Remonstrant be a vertue and worthy commendation think seriously of it and then receive such an answer as your owne heart shall dictate to you You know Mr. J. P. how carefull I was of your good name when about four mone●hs since a report was brought unto mee c●ncerning some opinions of yours in matters of Religion whether true or false I now argue not that presently by a godly intimate friend of yours and mine viz. Mr. James Russell I did privately without the least divulging them abroad make you acquainted with it And that very morning after your Book came forth against me the like report was again publikely brought unto mee in the presence of sundry witnesses but in s●ead of taking revenge of you which God ha●th forbidden me Rom. 12. 19. saying Avenge not your selves but rather give place unto wrath for it is written Vengeance is mine I will rep●y saith the Lord either by spreading them by reports or printing them to your d●sparagement I did p●esently in the presence of Mr. James Story who also heard them reported tell them to you remembring that of Solomon Prov. 1. 9. He that repeateth a matter separateth very Friends and desiring to follow our Saviours counsell Matth. 7. 12. Whatsoever you would that men should do to you doe yee even so to them and I hope I shall ever make it a rule for me to walk by viz. to doe as I would be done unto and not as I am dealt with And therefore in the examination and answering of your Book I will though much provoked by you yet by Gods grace indevour to be as free from pasiion or retaliation as possibly I can well remembring that David when Shimei cursed and railed upon him observed much good from God in Shimei his great evill and said So let him curse because the Lord hath said unto him curse David who shall then say wherefore hast thou done so 2 Sam. 16. 10. So I heartily desire without the least reluctancy of Spirit against you as the instrument seriously to observe and truly to bee sensible of whatever is from God in all that you have said and to lay my selfe in the dust in giving God the glory both in the acknowledging of any error justly charged upon mee and of his mercy in my recovery And I trust that through the goodness of God I shall yet get much good out of that which perhaps you int●nded and therefore divulged for mor● evill setting before me as a pattern in this to walke by the practice of our Lord Christ recorded for our example in 1 Pet. 2. 21 23. Who when hee was reviled reviled not againe but committed himselfe to him that judgeth righteously and with freedome of spirit I do heartily both praise the Lord and thanke you for your plaine deali●g with mee in any thing wherein as you professe you really and singly intended my spiritua●● good and pray the Lord to give you repentance and to pardon you in every thing wherein in this transaction you have done otherwise Thus with the reall dem●nstration of ●y true love and affection to you I crave your leave to goe on to the answearing of your Book earnestly desiring that if yet after all wee cannot agree in judgement and opinion we may still close together in heart and affection which whatever the event shall prove shall alwayes bee the desire prayer and endeavour of Your cordially loving and faithfull Friend Iohn Bellamie A IVSTIFICATION OF THE City Remonstrance AND ITS VINDICATION THE first thing you quarrell withall is the Title of the Book A Vindic●tion c. and this you continue to the latter end of your sixth Page and as in the Moderate Reply so here in this you endeavour in generall termes to lay low the Remonstrance and its Vindication in the eyes of the people As in your first page by comparing them to a bad Cause and its Advocates then to the Kings Declarations R●monstrances and their Abettors to Absaloms reb●llion again●● his Father David and Achitophels cunning counsell to draw the pe●ple ●fter hi● to Demetrius his plea for Diana's greatnesse and to Tertullu● 〈◊〉 against St. Paul Ans● ●●e passe by the parallel● which here you make with the Vindicator of the City Remonstrance and leave it wholly to the 〈…〉 ●ensure of the judicious Reader whether there be any the least par●ty in the things and cases by you compared for I had much rather abide their test and tryall then in this to bee a pleader of my own cause and so I come to your application of it in these words Viz. As it was in the beginning so it is now witnesse the present case A moderate Reply to the City Remonstrance in just●fication of the Parliaments innocencie from the prejudice raised against them by the said Remonstrance as say you shall bee fully evidenced before we have d●ne Answ. Two things I observe in this first that you say and therein you lay a charge upon the City that the City Remonstrance hath raiseda prejudice against the Parliaments innocency And secondly you further say that this shall bee fully evidenced before you have done the first is exprest as usually you use to doe onely in generals which amount to nothing But I pray consider with your selfe is not Mr. I. P. a Freeman and Citizen of London one who lives under God in and by the Trad● of the City and yet so farre to forget himselfe and his duty as thus to asperse the City and its actions with generall and yet unjust defamations and all this under a specious shew of a justification of the Parliaments innocency when as there are clouds of witnesses and many of them under the Parliaments own attestation at all times ready to bee produced if required of Londons fidelity of Londons loyalty of Londons unparallel'd embowelling and in a great measure emptying themselves not onely of treasure but of blood also and all this unweariedly from time to time since the Parliament first fate to this very day yea alwayes with alacrity and freedome both of heart● and hands for the honour the defence the just and necessary occasions of Parliament and hath not the Honourable Ho●se of Lords 〈◊〉 accepted and fully approved most of the particulars in the said Remonstrance yea those in speciall and by name which you so much oppose viz. the suppressing of all Heresies and S●●ismes c. and promised to take the other particulars into their serious and speedy consid●ration as by their answer to that Remonstrance presented to them it doth appeare and hath not the Honourable House of Commons also received the said Remonstrance and promised to give an answer thereunto in due time and not at any time since its

receiving into their Honourable House by any p●bli●e act manifested to the world the least dislike thereof and yet must Lon●●●s Remonstrance by one of its own members be charged with raising a prejudice against the Parliaments innoceney I pray consider whether by this you doe not first charge the House of Lords for their being well satisfied with that which yet you say doth raise a prejudice against the Parliaments innocencie And secondly whether you doe not prejudge the judgement of the House of Commons and therein breake the Priviledge of Parliament in passing such a sentence and laying such a charge upon that which yet lyeth under their consideration I onely offer these two Quaeries to your after or second consideration But for a ● this you say that this shall bee fully evidenced before you have done Answ. I pray remember what it is that in this you promise and be sure that in the particulars of it you make your Charge good otherwise you must not bee offended nor take it ill if according to the common Proverbe you be judged to be one of them which will undertake more in an houre then you can performe in an age I appeal to the Reader whether as yet either the Moderate reply or this your Remonstrance Remonstrated hath in any one instance which either of you have given or in all that both of you have done done any thing which proves that the City Remonstrance hath raised a prejudice against the Parliaments innocency and t●●ly you must needs beare with me in this that I cannot judge your bare word to be of that Authority as to beleeve it because you affirme it especially considering the honorable House of Commons hath not as yet passed any the least displeasing sentence against it and the honorable House of Lords hath declared that they are wel satisfied with the particulars contained in it And both House● of Parliament since their receiving of this Remonstrance have in the Propositions sent to his Majesty for a safe w●l grounded Peace● even in terminis proposed more to his Maje●ty for his R●oyall assent as unto Reformation of Religion then the Remonst●ant● have desired in their second third and fourth Petitidus so much condemned by you for the drift of all that they desire is 〈◊〉 an equall conformity of all the Subjects of England to the publike dis●ipline and doctrine set forth or to bee set forth by Authority of Parliament as by reference to those three Petitions will clearely shew but both Houses of Parliament in their great wisdome faithfulnesse and care for the publike safety and peace of the Kingdome have in the fifth and sixth Articles of the Propositions in these words thus proposed viz. Ar●ic 5. That Reformation of Religion accordin● to 〈…〉 by Act of Parliame●● in such manner as both Ho●ses have agreed 〈…〉 agree upon after consultation had with the Assembly of 〈◊〉 And Article 6 it thus followeth For 〈◊〉 much as ●ot● Kingdome● are 〈◊〉 oblig●d by the same Covm●n● to indeavo●● the ●●arest ●onjunction and unif●rmity in matters of Religion that such unity and 〈◊〉 in Religi●n according to the Covenant as after 〈…〉 Divines of b●t● Kingdomes now assembled 〈…〉 shall bee 〈◊〉 agreed ●pon 〈◊〉 Houses of Parliament of England and by the Ch●rch and Kingdome of Scotland be 〈◊〉 by Acts of Parliament of both Kingdomes respectively And therefore were I thought worthy to bee of your Councell I sho●ld advise you to bee so inge●●ous as in this to confesse your error and not to imagine that you see more in the City Remonstran●e then either one or both Houses of Parliament can yet discerne and for after times I wou●d perswade you to forbeare the thus unjust besm●a●ing and falsly acc●sing that City wh●reof you are a member 〈◊〉 amongst whom under God you enjoy your livelihood You g●e on and say 〈…〉 Reply 〈◊〉 with adversary ●pon adversary representi●● the Au●hor of the said ●ooke a lyer because 〈◊〉 tells 〈…〉 a friend to the Parliament Ans● Truly these are fine 〈◊〉 if they were true to beget 〈…〉 Remonstrance and to ingratiate the opposer● in the eyes of the people But I pray what doe you 〈…〉 I must needs say you tread in the 〈…〉 Replyer 〈…〉 and it 's very 〈…〉 the book and the page if you 〈…〉 and tell us the truth you have told 〈…〉 you are called a Lyer and where you are 〈…〉 you are a friend to the Parliame●● 〈…〉 be taking with children 〈…〉 The next thing you fall upon is in your fourth page and that is the word Humble Remonstrance and upon this you descant in some similitudes as of Court complements and Cavaliers carriage and then in plaine termes you call it a Remonstrance invective against the Parliament Answ. You are full of charges though never so false and liberall in your expressions though you make nothing good I conceive you thinke your selfe safe and secure and perhaps you are so from ever giving an accompt of these your actions to any earthly authority but yet methink● the words of the ninth Commandement should be of some authority to you and beare some sway with you viz. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse against thy neighbour If not against a particular person then sure not against a Corporation a City whereof your self are a member Then you are offended at these expressions viz. Two late Libells published by two Anonymusses and you aske why I call them Libells before I prove them so Answ. They were so in themselves before I named them so neither called I them Libells for any of those reasons which you would have the world beleeve I did As first because they are written by an Antipresbyter nor yet because they containe in them lies falsities untruths though all these in severall instances are in the vindication made good against them nor because they are little Bookes nor yet singly because they are written against the City or because they are without the Authors Names but for these two last reasons joyntly and together A Libell I call that which is an untrue and therefore an unjust Charge upon or against a Person a Corporation a Court without any name annexed to make good what is there charged and in this respect I appeale to the Reader whether I did not truly and justly call them Libells Lastly before you come to the body of the Booke you have yet another fling against the Title A Vindication of the City Remonstrance that is say you a Vindication of that which is invindicable And therefore say you better it would bee that both the City Remonstrance and the vindication thereof were written in ashes with the finger of vanitie then in marble with the pen of a 〈◊〉 c. Answ. For ought I yet see it is but one 〈◊〉 opinion and he none of the gravest neither that the City Remonstrance is invindicable and what you have said to prove it to be so I desire the Reader to judge