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city_n church_n great_a place_n 5,080 4 4.2516 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A07646 A gagg for the new Gospell? No: a nevv gagg for an old goose VVho would needes vndertake to stop all Protestants mouths for euer, with 276. places out of their owne English Bibles. Or an ansvvere to a late abridger of controuersies, and belyar of the Protestants doctrine. By Richard Mountagu. Published by authoritie. Montagu, Richard, 1577-1641. 1624 (1624) STC 18038; ESTC S112831 210,549 373

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saint_n augustine_n do_v not_o proceed_v weresolue_v say_v he_o there_o that_o a_o man_n may_v collect_v it_o by_o infallible_a assurance_n and_o divine_a if_o we_o look_v into_o the_o faithfulness_n of_o he_o that_o promise_v but_o if_o we_o consider_v our_o own_o disposition_n we_o assign_v no_o more_o but_o probable_a and_o coniectural_a assurance_n this_o bellarmine_n assign_v this_o be_v enough_o faction_n may_v transport_v a_o man_n to_o wrangle_v for_o more_o but_o when_o once_o they_o join_v issue_n the_o difference_n will_v not_o be_v much_o much_o or_o little_a great_a or_o small_a thus_o or_o so_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o touch_v that_o design_v neither_o ungrateful_a colt_n you_o be_v that_o spurn_v with_o your_o heel_n at_o the_o breast_n that_o give_v you_o life_n if_o not_o to_o god_n yet_o to_o nature_n and_o impute_v more_o unto_o she_o than_o she_o mean_v or_o intend_v to_o determine_v or_o maintain_v indeed_o contrary_a as_o you_o bely_v they_o consonant_n bible_n agree_v as_o they_o believe_v and_o maintain_v they_o never_o go_v against_o these_o word_n of_o saint_n paul_n 1._o cor._n 9_o 27._o lest_o by_o any_o mean_n when_o i_o preach_v to_o other_o i_o myself_o shall_v be_v a_o castaway_n but_o they_o say_v you_o mistake_v and_o misapply_v those_o word_n and_o therein_o go_v against_o your_o own_o director_n for_o their_o tenet_n be_v that_o saint_n paul_n be_v assure_v of_o his_o salvation_n whether_o by_o ordinary_a divine_a faith_n or_o extraordinary_a divine_a revelation_n i_o inquire_v not_o at_o present_a nor_o much_o care_n i_o take_v which_o you_o ignorant_o do_v contradict_v or_o unlearned_o do_v oppose_v second_o you_o oppose_v plain_a scripture_n in_o your_o bibles_n for_o saint_n paul_n a_o jew_n by_o birth_n as_o bellarmine_n resolve_v semper_fw-la se_fw-la in_o numero_fw-la electorum_fw-la point_n cum_fw-la de_fw-la praedestinatione_fw-la loquor_fw-la rom._n 8._o 9_o 11._o &_o eph._n 1._o account_v himself_o 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unto_o they_o who_o be_v of_o the_o number_n of_o god_n elect_v from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o their_o nativity_n the_o other_o that_o none_o but_o such_o holy_a man_n indeed_o have_v angel-guardian_n but_o from_o the_o day_n of_o their_o baptism_n and_o new_a birth_n in_o christ_n assign_v they_o not_o before_o or_o from_o their_o nativity_n this_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o antiquity_n and_o no_o more_o not_o as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v enlarge_v it_o that_o every_o man_n live_v good_a and_o bad_a from_o the_o very_a first_o instant_n of_o life_n to_o the_o last_o gasp_n have_v a_o angel-guardian_n depute_v unto_o he_o as_o i_o can_v make_v manifest_a if_o need_n be_v and_o basil_n be_v punctual_a and_o express_a upon_o the_o 33._o psal_n page_n 221._o and_o the_o 48._o psal_n page_n 247._o nor_o do_v the_o master_n of_o sentence_n otherwise_o conceive_v it_o then_o ut_fw-la cuique_fw-la electorum_fw-la habeat_fw-la angelum_fw-la ad_fw-la svi_fw-la protectum_fw-la atque_fw-la custodiam_fw-la specialiter_fw-la deputatum_fw-la in_o 2._o d._n 11._o so_o that_o hic_fw-la magister_fw-la non_fw-la tenetur_fw-la our_o roman_a undertaker_n have_v forsake_v not_o alone_o the_o father_n but_o their_o own_o doctor_n peter_n lombard_n to_o enlarge_v the_o point_n and_o yet_o this_o giddy_a goose-gaggle_a must_v prate_v he_o know_v not_o what_o against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n concern_v angell-keeper_n in_o this_o point_n who_o with_o as_o good_a reason_n and_o to_o as_o great_a purpose_n may_v have_v stir_v touch_v guardian_n of_o kingdom_n city_n corporation_n element_n and_o order_v of_o the_o world_n touch_v the_o time_n when_o the_o manner_n how_o the_o extent_n how_o far_o and_o many_o other_o like_o speculation_n all_o dispute_v of_o among_o divine_n in_o the_o church_n none_o resolve_v of_o as_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la by_o divine_n for_o the_o church_n so_o that_o have_v we_o deny_v it_o no_o such_o great_a matter_n for_o salus_fw-la 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likely_a to_o see_v the_o poor_a man_n can_v afford_v we_o no_o father_n here_o his_o read_n it_o seem_v will_v not_o reach_v unto_o that_o and_o his_o good_a master_n be_v not_o at_o hand_n to_o help_v he_o i_o can_v furnish_v he_o if_o he_o will_v thank_v i_o to_o better_a purpose_n than_o his_o scripture_n have_v but_o want_v i_o suppose_v he_o will_v rather_o then_o be_v behold_v to_o a_o protestant_n to_o conclude_v we_o will_v not_o deny_v he_o that_o every_o man_n have_v his_o angell-keeper_n but_o within_o the_o church_n at_o least_o not_o ramble_v abroad_o be_v they_o not_o all_o of_o they_o minister_a spirit_n send_v forth_o to_o minister_v to_o who_o where_o not_o to_o every_o man_n under_o heaven_n but_o with_o restriction_n who_o shall_v be_v heir_n of_o salvation_n in_o offensive_a sort_n against_o their_o foe_n in_o defensive_a manner_n for_o their_o good_a thus_o the_o scripture_n speak_v and_o no_o otherwise_o thus_o the_o father_n teach_v and_o no_o otherwise_o not_o 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all_o or_o some_o for_o some_o who_o can_v tell_v that_o be_v not_o of_o counsel_n to_o his_o pen_n and_o purpose_n as_o it_o lie_v lurk_v in_o fraudulent_a term_n i_o can_v answer_v both_o way_n and_o contradictory_n way_n first_o holy_a angel_n pray_v not_o for_o we_o and_o true_o too_o nor_o shall_v this_o goose_n hiscere_fw-la against_o my_o answer_n viz._n not_o every_o holy_a angel_n in_o special_a for_o every_o man_n in_o particular_a not_o at_o all_o time_n upon_o any_o or_o all_o occasion_n i_o can_v also_o answer_v and_o true_o too_o holy_a angel_n pray_v for_o us._n and_o so_o this_o gagger_n may_v go_v shoe_n the_o goose_n that_o be_v it_o be_v a_o principal_a part_n of_o their_o performance_n in_o heaven_n as_o they_o magnify_v their_o maker_n eternal_o so_o to_o recommend_v unto_o he_o incessant_o the_o estate_n and_o good_a be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o redeem_a as_o yet_o in_o great_a tribulation_n i_o add_v yet_o further_o at_o all_o time_n some_o of_o they_o 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this_o you_o tell_v we_o of_o one_o that_o can_v untie_v knot_n let_v he_o untie_v this_o or_o cut_v it_o in_o piece_n for_o it_o trouble_v we_o not_o a_o little_a that_o angel_n revel_v 8._o 4._o from_o who_o hand_n the_o smoke_n of_o incense_n ascend_v which_o be_v express_v to_o have_v be_v the_o prayer_n of_o saint_n who_o be_v he_o can_v you_o tell_v i_o whether_o the_o angel_n of_o the_o covenant_n christ_n jesus_n himself_o or_o michael_n the_o protector_n of_o the_o church_n do_v you_o know_v or_o some_o other_o angel_n be_v you_o assure_v be_v his_o employment_n ordinary_a or_o extraordinary_a can_v any_o tell_v mystical_a you_o may_v be_v sure_a this_o passage_n be_v and_o can_v you_o draw_v argument_n from_o such_o testimony_n your_o great_a understanding_n do_v happy_o think_v yea_o the_o common_a resolution_n be_v for_o nay_o but_o howsoever_o the_o prayer_n of_o all_o saint_n that_o be_v of_o the_o church_n be_v offer_v to_o god_n in_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o angel_n 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pharisee_n do_v your_o church_n 1_o pet._n 2._o 9_o the_o church_n be_v style_v a_o choose_a generation_n a_o royal_a priesthood_n a_o holy_a nation_n a_o peculiar_a people_n glorious_a title_n but_o nothing_o to_o this_o they_o can_v err_v john_n 17._o 17._o god_n word_n be_v truth_n i_o grant_v but_o be_v god_n word_n ever_o in_o the_o mouth_n of_o man_n the_o apostle_n be_v sanctify_v and_o that_o in_o god_n truth_n according_a unto_o christ_n prayer_n yet_o after_o this_o prayer_n peter_n go_v not_o right_a when_o saint_n paul_n reprove_v he_o he_o fall_v and_o that_o foul_o in_o deny_v christ_n that_o which_o be_v sanctify_v be_v accept_v not_o ever_o so_o sanctify_v as_o without_o spot_n as_o for_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 25._o if_o the_o institution_n or_o rather_o commemoration_n of_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o holy_a communion_n be_v a_o proof_n sufficient_a that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v we_o yield_v the_o cause_n if_o nothing_o to_o purpose_n what_o mean_v this_o idle_a pate_n to_o range_v it_o here_o what_o the_o man_n will_v say_v in_o psalm_n 101._o 23._o 20._o or_o whether_o he_o will_v send_v we_o after_o mistake_v there_o i_o can_v tell_v and_o till_o then_o i_o can_v answer_v for_o not_o so_o much_o as_o near_o thereabouts_o be_v aught_o to_o purpose_n of_o not_o err_v ephes_n 2._o 20._o we_o read_v that_o they_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o what_o then_o can_v they_o not_o err_v dare_v you_o say_v so_o they_o can_v for_o they_o have_v and_o be_v shake_v off_o from_o that_o foundation_n but_o so_o long_o as_o they_o stand_v on_o fast_o they_o err_v not_o hold_v one_o faith_n one_o lord_n one_o baptism_n eph._n 4._o 5._o which_o if_o you_o and_o we_o do_v at_o this_o day_n by_o your_o own_o argument_n avoid_v it_o if_o you_o can_v we_o err_v not_o as_o for_o one_o heart_n and_o one_o soul_n of_o the_o believer_n act._n 4._o 32._o it_o be_v in_o reference_n of_o love_n one_o to_o another_o 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of_o faith_n for_o in_o matter_n of_o fact_n they_o confess_v error_n faith_n be_v fundamental_a or_o accessary_a there_o none_o be_v here_o error_n may_v accrue_v father_n to_o be_v see_v you_o afford_v we_o none_o not_o because_o there_o be_v none_o but_o because_o your_o read_n can_v supply_v none_o who_o take_v up_o all_o upon_o retail_v and_o credit_v have_v so_o small_a store_n at_o home_n the_o church_n can_v err_v be_v most_o true_a and_o the_o church_n may_v err_v be_v as_o true_a each_o part_n consider_v as_o it_o ought_v v._o that_o the_o church_n have_v be_v hide_v and_o invisible_a it_o may_v be_v some_o private_a opinion_n have_v run_v upon_o invifibility_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v no_o doctrinal_a decision_n nor_o to_o be_v impute_v unto_o the_o resolve_a doctrine_n of_o the_o protestant_n that_o be_v of_o another_o mind_n nunquam_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la nusquam_fw-la videtur_fw-la that_o which_o can_v be_v see_v if_o it_o be_v seeable_a be_v no_o where_o at_o 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or_o mist_n not_o discern_v there_o ever_o be_v and_o will_v be_v a_o church_n unto_o who_o complaint_n may_v be_v make_v though_o the_o church_n do_v not_o ever_o hear_v complaint_n those_o that_o have_v fell_a upon_o a_o invisibility_n may_v perhaps_o be_v tolerate_v if_o well_o interpret_v and_o understand_v for_o even_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o she_o more_o noble_a part_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v invisible_a first_o the_o saint_n triumphant_a and_o now_o regnant_a with_o christ_n be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n in_o large_a extent_n who_o be_v in_o heaven_n be_v unknown_a their_o person_n propriety_n and_o endowment_n the_o saint_n militant_a her_o more_o excellent_a part_n on_o earth_n according_a to_o her_o more_o royal_a endowment_n the_o elect_a according_a unto_o purpose_n of_o grace_n be_v know_v only_o unto_o god_n alone_o the_o searcher_n of_o secret_n and_o decipherer_n of_o thought_n such_o as_o be_v secret_a &_o occultò_fw-la intus_fw-la be_v there_o not_o visible_a unto_o man_n in_o this_o sense_n in_o regard_n of_o these_o part_n the_o church_n be_v and_o be_v esteem_v invisible_a and_o so_o hold_v even_o of_o the_o papist_n themselves_o otherwise_o then_o so_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o invisibility_n so_o that_o the_o man_n must_v fall_v foul_a with_o his_o own_o part_n or_o be_v at_o war_n with_o his_o own_o wit_n moderate_a man_n on_o both_o side_n confess_v this_o controversy_n may_v cease_v et_fw-la quamuis_fw-la praesens_fw-la haec_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la romana_fw-la non_fw-la parum_fw-la in_o morum_fw-la &_o disciplinae_fw-la integritate_fw-la add_v etiam_fw-la in_o doctrinae_fw-la sinceritate_fw-la ab_fw-la antiquâ_fw-la illâ_fw-la unde_fw-la orta_fw-la &_o derivata_fw-la est_fw-la discesserit_fw-la tamen_fw-la eodem_fw-la fundamento_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la &_o sacramentorum_fw-la à_fw-la deo_fw-la institutorum_fw-la firma_fw-la semper_fw-la constitit_fw-la &_o communionem_fw-la cum_fw-la antiquâ_fw-la illâ_fw-la &_o indubitatâ_fw-la christi_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la agnoscit_fw-la &_o colit_fw-la quare_fw-la alia_fw-la &_o diversa_fw-la ab_fw-la illâ_fw-la esse_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la tametsi_fw-la multis_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la dissimulis_fw-la sit_fw-la manet_fw-la enim_fw-la christi_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la &_o sponsa_fw-la quamuis_fw-la multis_fw-la erroribus_fw-la &_o vitijs_fw-la sponsum_fw-la suum_fw-la irritaverit_n quamdiu_fw-la à_fw-la christo_fw-la svo_fw-la sponso_fw-la non_fw-la repudietur_fw-la tametsi_fw-la multis_fw-la f●agellis_fw-la ab_fw-la ipso_fw-la castigetur_fw-la as_o for_o our_o gagger_n he_o be_v interest_v happy_o otherwise_o in_o stand_v he_o in_o hand_n to_o uphold_v and_o foment_n a_o faction_n lest_o for_o insufficiency_n otherwise_o he_o turn_v host_n and_o sell_v bottle-ale_n that_o musty_a objection_n as_o he_o call_v it_o of_o elias_n may_v do_v he_o some_o pleasure_n at_o that_o time_n i_o add_v no_o more_o touch_v this_o proposition_n because_o it_o be_v but_o lose_a labour_n vi_o that_o it_o be_v forbid_v in_o holy_a scripture_n the_o public_a service_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v in_o a_o tongue_n not_o understand_v of_o all_o the_o assistant_n no_o doubt_n contrary_a to_o our_o own_o bible_n in_o such_o sort_n that_o if_o the_o protestant_n be_v not_o gag_v now_o their_o mouth_n be_v wide_a than_o gargantuaes_n and_o their_o lip_n somewhat_o like_a to_o german_n that_o be_v nine_o mile_n asunder_o certes_o never_o so_o foil_v by_o text_n of_o scripture_n since_o luther_n go_v out_o to_o this_o day_n therefore_o expedite_a tabulas_fw-la chrysippei_n sophy_n for_o here_o you_o have_v a_o singular_a piece_n of_o work_n indeed_o the_o church_n of_o england_n direct_v not_o only_o by_o the_o light_n of_o israel_n the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o also_o persuade_v by_o common_a sense_n and_o reason_n have_v and_o have_v have_v her_o service_n the_o public_a prayer_n and_o liturgy_n of_o the_o church_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n understand_v of_o all_o that_o be_v present_a there_o ordinary_o this_o be_v contrary_a to_o their_o
it_o be_v well_o he_o tell_v we_o not_o in_o what_o chap._n we_o may_v find_v it_o such_o roter_n as_o these_o be_v the_o man_n that_o talk_v of_o father_n among_o their_o gossip_n and_o proselyte_n and_o yet_o be_v so_o stupid_a as_o not_o to_o know_v what_o work_v a_o common_a father_n have_v write_v beside_o have_v tertul._n write_v such_o a_o second_o book_n or_o say_v any_o such_o matter_n in_o that_o second_o book_n a_o protestant_n of_o but_o mean_a read_n can_v tell_v he_o tertullian_n write_v that_o book_n be_v lapse_v into_o montanisme_n and_o so_o of_o no_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n for_o resolution_n though_o for_o relation_n but_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o man_n do_v but_o use_v tertullian_n name_n for_o a_o cypher_n to_o fill_v up_o a_o number_n &_o make_v a_o fair_a dumb_a show_n of_o a_o shepherd_n with_o a_o sheep_n on_o his_o shoulder_n on_o a_o chalice_n which_o be_v the_o picture_n he_o look_v at_o in_o tertul._n but_o i_o can_v send_v he_o to_o tertullian_n to_o learn_v how_o like_o a_o woodcock_n he_o remember_v those_o text_n of_o scripture_n for_o the_o cherubin_n sic_fw-la et_fw-la cherubin_n et_fw-fr seraphin_n aureâ_fw-la in_o arce_fw-la figuratum_fw-la exemplum_fw-la certè_fw-la simplex_fw-la ornamentum_fw-la accommodata_fw-la suggestut_o long_o diversos_fw-la habendo_fw-la causas_fw-la ab_fw-la idololatriae_fw-la conditione_n ob_fw-la quam_fw-la similitudo_fw-la prohibetur_fw-la non_fw-la videntur_fw-la similitudinum_fw-la prohibitarum_fw-la legi_fw-la refragari_fw-la non_fw-la in_o eo_fw-la similitudinis_fw-la statu_fw-la deprehensa_fw-la ob_fw-la quem_fw-la similitudo_fw-la prohibetur_fw-la lib_fw-la 2._o con_v mar._n 22._o this_o come_v home_o to_o the_o reason_n why_o god_n ordain_v they_o and_o answer_v your_o cavil_v to_o the_o full_a as_o for_o your_o image_n take_v his_o description_n in_o the_o like_a the_o prescript_n cap_n xii_o igitur_fw-la si_fw-la statuas_fw-la et_fw-la imagine_v frigidas_fw-la mortuorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la simillimas_fw-la non_fw-la adoramus_fw-la quas_fw-la milui_fw-la et_fw-la mure_n et_fw-la aran●ae_fw-la intelligunt_fw-la nun_n laudem_fw-la magis_fw-la quam_fw-la poenam_fw-la merebatur_fw-la repudium_fw-la agniti_fw-la erroris_fw-la he_o think_v not_o then_o very_o honourable_o of_o imagine_v who_o we_o be_v bid_v go_v see_v for_o i_o know_v not_o what_o engrave_v on_o the_o chalice_n for_o gregory_n nazianzen_n i_o do_v much_o marvel_n what_o it_o be_v we_o may_v see_v in_o he_o concern_v image_n who_o write_v only_o a_o deprecatory_a epistle_n in_o behalf_n of_o the_o inhabitant_n of_o diocaesarea_n unto_o olympius_n the_o emperor_n lieutenant_n for_o i_o can_v find_v nothing_o tend_v unto_o image_n but_o only_o this_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d it_o be_v not_o much_o if_o the_o statuae_fw-la be_v demolish_v and_o cast_v down_o though_o it_o be_v indeed_o a_o pity_n to_o have_v such_o a_o thing_n do_v and_o what_o be_v here_o to_o be_v see_v any_o way_n to_o purpose_n this_o man_n i_o believe_v have_v read_v or_o rather_o hear_v of_o billius_n note_n upon_o the_o place_n this_o hic_fw-la obserua_fw-la gregorij_fw-la quoque_fw-la tempore_fw-la aedes_fw-la sacras_fw-la statuis_fw-la &_o imaginibus_fw-la ornatas_fw-la fuisse_fw-la and_o have_v hear_v of_o it_o make_v much_o ado_n about_o it_o whereas_o nazianzen_n do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v church_n nor_o chapel_n the_o statue_n he_o speak_v of_o be_v public_a ornament_n of_o the_o city_n and_o as_o for_o worship_v of_o they_o it_o come_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o his_o thought_n billius_n mean_v well_o to_o the_o catholic_a cause_n and_o out_o of_o his_o affection_n set_v down_o that_o which_o he_o will_v have_v have_v nazianzen_n speak_v but_o not_o what_o he_o do_v say_v for_o nazianzen_n not_o so_o much_o as_o squint_v that_o way_n more_o may_v any_o man_n marvel_v at_o his_o trifle_n with_o saint_n basil_n on_o barlaam_n the_o martyr_n what_o shall_v i_o call_v thou_o o_o valiant_a soldier_n of_o christ_n jesus_n shall_v i_o call_v thou_o a_o statue_n or_o image_n of_o brass_n why_o it_o be_v not_o so_o solid_a or_o substantial_a as_o thou_o be_v for_o fire_n do_v melt_v it_o but_o fire_n can_v not_o cause_v thou_o pluck_v forth_o thy_o hand_n this_o be_v not_o that_o passage_n peradventure_o intend_v but_o that_o which_o ensue_v exurgite_fw-la nunc_fw-la athleticorum_fw-la gestorum_fw-la pictores_fw-la mutilam_fw-la ducis_fw-la imaginem_fw-la vestro_fw-la illustrate_v artificio_fw-la et_fw-la obscurius_fw-la à_fw-la i_o depictum_fw-la coronatum_fw-la athletam_fw-la vestrae_fw-la industriae_fw-la coloribus_fw-la conspicuum_fw-la reddite_fw-la not_o with_o a_o pencil_n conceive_v not_o basil_n to_o have_v be_v a_o painter_n but_o with_o a_o pen_n so_o that_o homer_n describe_v achilles_n ulysses_n in_o this_o man_n construction_n be_v paint_v in_o a_o table_n with_o colour_n and_o portraiture_n to_o the_o life_n none_o but_o a_o statue_n will_v thus_o discourse_v or_o one_o more_o senseless_a than_o a_o block_n what_o basil_n and_o nazianzen_n can_v not_o do_v augustine_n shall_v supply_v who_o witness_v that_o in_o his_o time_n christ_n be_v to_o be_v see_v paint_v in_o many_o place_n betwixt_o saint_n peter_n and_o saint_n paul_n so_o be_v he_o in_o many_o church_n with_o we_o betwixt_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o saint_n john_n evangelist_n so_o be_v the_o holy_a virgin_n by_o saint_n luke_n you_o say_v so_o let_v they_o be_v every_o where_o if_o you_o please_v not_o the_o make_n of_o image_n be_v mislike_v not_o the_o have_v of_o image_n be_v condemn_v but_o the_o profane_v of_o they_o to_o unlawful_a use_n in_o worship_v and_o adore_v they_o xliiii_o that_o no_o man_n have_v at_o any_o time_n see_v god_n and_o that_o therefore_o his_o picture_n or_o image_n can_v be_v make_v ignorant_a blunderer_n whither_o will_v thou_o sure_o the_o man_n be_v not_o well_o in_o his_o wit_n that_o challenge_v the_o protestant_n upon_o these_o term_n no_o man_n at_o any_o time_n have_v see_v god_n be_v it_o not_o plain_a express_a scripture_n that_o joh._n 1._o 18._o no_o man_n have_v see_v god_n at_o any_o time_n exo._n 33._o 20._o thou_o can_v not_o see_v my_o face_n for_o there_o shall_v no_o man_n see_v i_o and_o live_v no_o man_n have_v no_o man_n can_v in_o this_o life_n no_o nor_o in_o that_o which_o be_v to_o come_v so_o saint_n paul_n 1._o tim._n 6._o 16._o who_o never_o man_n see_v nor_o yet_o can_v see_v the_o reason_n be_v render_v by_o a_o pagan_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d mortal_a man_n have_v mortal_a eye_n and_o god_n inhabit_v immortality_n and_o yet_o this_o gagger_n think_v to_o gag_n the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n by_o oppose_a text_n of_o scripture_n to_o the_o contrary_a that_o a_o man_n may_v see_v god_n gen._n 3._o 8._o where_o god_n appear_v unto_o adam_n walk_v in_o the_o garden_n of_o paradise_n in_o a_o corporal_a form_n accurse_a glosser_n to_o corrupt_v the_o text_n there_o we_o read_v they_o hear_v the_o voice_n of_o the_o lord_n god_n walk_v in_o the_o garden_n in_o the_o cool_a of_o the_o day_n so_o hear_v and_o see_v be_v all_o one_o with_o this_o man_n that_o have_v lose_v both_o hear_v and_o see_v &_o understand_v too_o a_o voice_n in_o his_o philosophy_n be_v a_o corporal_a form_n and_o so_o to_o hear_v one_o speak_v be_v to_o see_v one_o go_v and_o moses_n say_v he_o know_v not_o what_o deuter._n 4._o 12._o you_o hear_v the_o voice_n of_o word_n but_o see_v no_o similitude_n save_o a_o voice_n a_o whip_n for_o a_o fool_n rather_o than_o a_o answer_n to_o his_o folly_n gen._n 28._o 12_o 13._o god_n appear_v unto_o jacob_n stand_v above_o the_o ladder_n whereon_o the_o angel_n ascend_v and_o descend_v in_o what_o shape_n do_v he_o appear_v can_v you_o tell_v the_o lord_n stand_v above_o it_o so_o be_v the_o word_n and_o speak_v he_o may_v there_o stand_v and_o speak_v as_o he_o do_v in_o sinah_n and_o yet_o as_o say_v the_o scripture_n they_o see_v no_o shape_n so_o that_o yet_o we_o have_v nothing_o but_o belie_v of_o scripture_n and_o deprave_v the_o text_n to_o countenance_v idolatry_n in_o consequence_n exod._n 33._o 11._o to_o moses_n he_o speak_v face_n to_o face_n as_o a_o man_n speak_v unto_o his_o friend_n your_o great_a prophet_n s._n thomas_n shall_v stop_v your_o mouth_n 1._o 2._o q._n 98_o be_v 3._o secundum_fw-la opinionem_fw-la populi_fw-la loquor_fw-la scriptura_fw-la the_o scripture_n speak_v according_a unto_o popular_a opinion_n who_o think_v that_o moses_n talk_v face_n unto_o face_n with_o god_n cum_fw-la per_fw-la subiectam_fw-la creaturam_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la angelum_fw-la &_o nubem_fw-la ei_fw-la loqueretur_fw-la &_o appareret_fw-la where_o as_o indeed_o god_n appear_v unto_o and_o talk_v with_o he_o by_o the_o mean_n of_o creature_n a_o angel_n in_o a_o cloud_n or_o if_o not_o so_o and_o this_o answer_n will_v not_o serve_v by_o face_n to_o face_n the_o scripture_n mean_v a_o certain_a eminent_a and_o
more_o familiar_a kind_n of_o apparition_n go_v answer_n saint_n thomas_n and_o your_o master_n can_v tell_v you_o that_o whereas_o it_o be_v relate_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n often_o that_o god_n appear_v unto_o man_n the_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o resolve_v whether_o god_n appear_v at_o any_o time_n personal_o or_o whole_o by_o the_o ministry_n of_o angel_n your_o man_n the_o jesuit_n victorellus_n vasquez_n and_o the_o rest_n nay_o all_o late_a divine_n say_v vasquez_n but_o clictho●●us_o affirm_v that_o god_n never_o appear_v but_o by_o the_o ministry_n of_o angel_n so_o that_o your_o express_a testimony_n be_v in_o a_o wise_a case_n and_o yourself_o a_o ignorant_a or_o a_o confident_a that_o know_v not_o this_o or_o dare_v oppose_v your_o yea_o unto_o their_o nay_o therefore_o isaiah_n 6._o 1._o he_o that_o sit_v upon_o the_o throne_n and_o he_o that_o dan._n 7._o 9_o be_v describe_v be_v not_o god_n but_o some_o angel_n or_o if_o god_n yet_o the_o second_o person_n the_o father_n never_o appear_v unto_o any_o therefore_o as_o vasquez_n himself_o confess_v that_o great_a vpbearer_n of_o roman_a idolatry_n henricus_fw-la quodlibeto_fw-la 1._o abutensis_n in_o 4._o deuter._n durand_n in_o 3._o d._n 9_o q._n 2._o ad_fw-la 4._o martin_n aiala_n de_fw-fr tradit_fw-la 3._o part_n do_v teach_v it_o as_o well_o as_o calvin_n that_o it_o be_v utter_o unlawful_a to_o picture_n or_o represent_v the_o trinity_n or_o god_n otherwise_o than_o as_o in_o christ_n he_o take_v our_o flesh_n and_o be_v find_v among_o we_o as_o a_o man_n these_o be_v nor_o heretic_n nor_o protestant_n that_o do_v teach_v so_o and_o yet_o we_o see_v it_o ordinary_a among_o our_o good_a catholic_n to_o represent_v the_o picture_n of_o the_o trinity_n more_o way_n than_o one_o which_o never_o appear_v in_o humane_a shape_n as_o yet_o to_o any_o impious_a artificer_n not_o only_o vain_a that_o make_v the_o most_o bless_a and_o most_o glorious_a trinity_n a_o certain_a geryon_n or_o as_o tertullian_n phrase_v it_o sororem_fw-la vasculorum_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o thing_n not_o only_o contrary_a unto_o reason_n but_o to_o the_o despite_n and_o contumely_n of_o god_n who_o glory_n be_v such_o as_o can_v be_v utter_v and_o shape_v such_o as_o can_v be_v express_v be_v denominate_v from_o and_o represent_v in_o base_a and_o corruptible_a thing_n that_o have_v no_o permanency_n without_o supply_n so_o feel_o complain_v justine_n martyr_n of_o your_o comrade_n the_o idolater_n of_o those_o time_n such_o image_n hesselius_n a_o papist_n professor_n at_o louvain_n whereby_o god_n the_o father_n be_v represent_v in_o a_o humane_a shape_n utter_o himself_o dislike_v and_o justify_v his_o dislike_n out_o of_o the_o father_n that_o not_o only_a protestant_n may_v be_v the_o misliker_n of_o such_o impiety_n but_o papist_n of_o better_a spirit_n and_o more_o solid_a learning_n xlv_o that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o worship_v image_n nor_o to_o give_v any_o honour_n to_o any_o dead_a or_o insensible_a thing_n two_o several_a question_n as_o often_o confuse_o propound_v in_o one_o proposition_n which_o be_v of_o different_a nature_n of_o unequal_a extent_n of_o diverse_a and_o disparated_a approbation_n the_o latter_a that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o give_v any_o honour_n to_o any_o dead_a or_o insensible_a thing_n be_v a_o false_a imputation_n cast_v upon_o we_o a_o horrible_a lie_n against_o common_a sense_n refell_v in_o the_o ordinary_a practice_n of_o protestant_n who_o give_v honour_n and_o respect_n though_o not_o adoration_n to_o many_o dead_a and_o insensible_a thing_n as_o this_o fellow_n live_v in_o a_o protestant_a state_n can_v choose_v but_o know_v unless_o with_o bartimaeus●ee_n ●ee_z be_v bear_v blind_a and_o withal_o have_v continue_v deaf_a from_o his_o mother_n womb_n this_o he_o can_v prove_v by_o express_a word_n that_o we_o deny_v nor_o yet_o any_o consequence_n thereupon_o it_o be_v contrary_a he_o tell_v we_o for_o fashion_n sake_n unto_o the_o express_a word_n of_o our_o own_o bible_n what_o be_v contrary_a that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o worship_v image_n or_o to_o give_v any_o honour_n to_o dead_a thing_n two_o distinct_a assertion_n not_o of_o necessary_a consequence_n or_o dependence_n and_o so_o not_o necessary_o infer_v one_o upon_o the_o other_o beside_o where_o be_v that_o express_a place_n of_o our_o bible_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o assertion_n this_o place_n be_v forget_v through_o etc._n too_o much_o haste_n i_o will_v supply_v the_o defect_n and_o design_v the_o place_n which_o the_o man_n intend_v when_o he_o over_o pass_v it_o exod._n 3._o 5._o josua_n 5._o 15._o put_v off_o thy_o sho●es_n from_o thy_o foot_n for_o the_o place_n whereon_o thou_o stand_v be_v holy_a ground_n this_o may_v prove_v that_o at_o some_o time_n by_o special_a precept_n upon_o some_o occasion_n some_o insensible_a thing_n may_v be_v honour_v which_o no_o protestant_a ever_o go_v about_o to_o deny_v but_o the_o inference_n they_o do_v and_o most_o just_o honour_v may_v as_o have_v no_o reason_n of_o illation_n therefore_o a_o image_n represent_v unto_o we_o a_o holy_a thing_n may_v be_v worship_v say_v and_o not_o honour_v for_o of_o honour_n we_o contend_v not_o our_o difference_n be_v about_o worship_n only_o but_o take_v it_o of_o honour_n and_o see_v the_o handsome_a consequence_n god_n say_v some_o ground_n be_v holy_a therefore_o all_o image_n may_v be_v worship_v what_o a_o image_n of_o rie-dough_n be_v this_o codshead_n to_o as_o good_a sense_n it_o may_v be_v speak_v jerusalem_n be_v call_v the_o holy_a city_n therefore_o the_o jew_n may_v worship_v image_n or_o the_o temple_n be_v a_o holy_a place_n none_o but_o israelite_n and_o those_o also_o clean_a may_v enter_v there_o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n do_v wash_v their_o foot_n be_v to_o do_v service_n there_o all_o common_a people_n wipe_v off_o the_o dust_n from_o their_o foot_n when_o they_o enter_v therein_o therefore_o ahaz_n may_v erect_v his_o altar_n there_o manasses_n profane_v it_o with_o idolatry_n antiochus_n set_v up_o the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n there_o have_v not_o the_o beast_n cause_n to_o low_a thus_o lo_o how_o clear_o a_o place_n be_v here_o produce_v against_o the_o protestant_n wherein_o a_o insensible_a creature_n without_o reason_n be_v command_v by_o god_n himself_o to_o be_v honour_v for_o the_o refrain_v to_o tread_v upon_o it_o be_v the_o do_v of_o honour_n to_o it_o therefore_o a_o image_n etc._n etc._n of_o honour_n be_v it_o but_o not_o worship_n honour_n and_o worship_n differ_v more_o than_o latria_fw-la and_o dulia_fw-la do_v without_o sense_n i_o grant_v and_o life_n too_o the_o earth_n have_v neither_o life_n nor_o sense_n the_o earth_n be_v make_v to_o tread_v upon_o it_o be_v not_o great_a honour_n to_o inhibit_v this_o course_n of_o kind_n honour_n be_v do_v not_o worship_n not_o to_o the_o place_n but_o to_o the_o holy_a place_n the_o place_n be_v holy_a not_o in_o itself_o not_o make_v so_o by_o man_n but_o from_o the_o personal_a presence_n of_o the_o most_o high_a make_v a_o image_n so_o holy_a and_o then_o so_o honour_v it_o this_o honour_n be_v not_o you_o be_v asleep_a man_n in_o refrain_v to_o tread_v upon_o the_o earth_n for_o where_o stand_v moses_n and_o josua_n when_o they_o talk_v with_o god_n in_o the_o air_n or_o nowhere_o or_o in_o the_o five_o imaginary_a body_n but_o the_o honour_n be_v in_o refrain_v to_o tread_v on_o it_o with_o their_o shoe_n on_o as_o when_o man_n come_v into_o the_o church_n but_o uncover_v the_o head_n at_o their_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n and_o for_o the_o honour_n in_o kind_n or_o correspondency_n what_o similitude_n betwixt_o that_o &_o you_o to_o a_o image_n you_o fall_v down_o unto_o a_o image_n at_o least_o before_o it_o you_o honour_v the_o image_n with_o the_o same_o honour_n that_o the_o representee_n be_v honour_v withal_o at_o least_o accidental_o in_o your_o relative_a worship_n do_v moses_n or_o josuab_n so_o honour_v the_o ground_n fall_v they_o down_o unto_o it_o put_v they_o their_o shoe_n off_o to_o it_o for_o the_o ground_n sake_n and_o not_o rather_o for_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n there_o who_o without_o any_o relative_a worship_n at_o all_o they_o honour_v immediate_o in_o himself_o any_o thing_n i_o see_v will_v serve_v a_o priest_n turn_v no_o matter_n what_o you_o prate_v so_o that_o you_o prattle_v happy_a man_n that_o have_v so_o pliant_a proselyte_n that_o so_o easy_o believe_v whatsoever_o be_v tell_v they_o though_o it_o be_v a_o tale_n of_o a_o tub._n there_o be_v a_o respect_n due_a to_o all_o the_o work_n of_o god_n as_o good_a as_o he_o as_o argue_v the_o art_n and_o excellency_n of_o the_o maker_n so_o all_o of_o they_o be_v honourable_a in_o their_o kind_n do_v you_o