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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A27361	A iustification of The city remonstrance and its vindication, or, An answer to a book written by Mr. J.P. entituled, The city remonstrance remonstrated wherein the frequent falsifyings of the said Mr. J.P. are discovered, the many charges by him laid upon the remonstrance and its vindicator, disproved, and the parity and agreement of the remonstrance ... with the propositions, declarations, remonstrances, and votes, of both or either House of Parliament manifested / by John Bellamie.	Bellamie, John, d. 1654.; Price, John, Citizen of London. City remonstrance remonstrated.	1646 (1646)	Wing B1814; ESTC R4476	42,384	58

A IVSTIFICATION OF THE City Remonstrance AND ITS VINDICATION OR An Answer to a Book written by Mr. I. P. Entituled The City Remonstrance Remonstrated Wherein the frequent Falsifyings of the said Mr. I. P. are discovered the many Charges by him laid upon the Remonstrance and its Vindicator disproved and the parity and agreement of the Remonstrance especially in those particulars so much condemned by him with the Propositions Declarations Remonstrances and Votes of both or either House of Parliament manifested By JOHN BELLAMIE LONDON Printed by Richard Cotes 1646. To the Right Honorable Thomas Adams Lord Major and to the Right Worshipfull the Aldermen and the rest of the Common-Councell of the City LONDON Right Honourable Right Worshipfull VPon the 14 of April last you being in Court of Common-councell assembled made choice of a Committee of Aldermen and Commoners to prepare a draught of A Remonstrance and Petition to both Houses of Parliament and to present it in Court to be there either approved or altered as upon debate should be judged meet In obedience thereunto the said Committee upon the 20 of May following presented it in Common-councell where every branch thereof was taken apart and by it self into serious Consideration and after three dayes debating in open Court it was by consent and approbation of the Court finished and upon the 26 of May in the name of the Lord Major Aldermen and Common-councell presented to both Houses of Parliament Since which time two Libells have been Printed against the said Remonstrance the one call'd A moderate Reply to the City Remonstrance the other entituled The Interest of England maintained In one of which it is charged to carry a full complyance with His Majesties wonted Declarations against the Parliament and in the other That a great part of the main Sticklers in it are such as were alwayes backward to the Parliament and forced to pay their Fifth and twentieth part with many other foolish foule and false aspersions in them both Whereupon though the unmeetest because the unablest of many others I adventured the Vindication of it In answer whereof a●d in further opposition to the said Remonstrance one Mr. J. P. hath since published a Book named The City Remonstrance Remonstrated calling it a hard-hearted Remonstrance and a Remonstrance invective against the Parliament c. And in Page 29. charges mee● for saying s●mething but instances in nothing concerning the King the Lords and the power of the Commons and what my carriages have been not very long since in Common-councell c. and doth thereby as it were in a tacite way call the Court to testifie against me All which hath occasioned me this second time to put pen t● Paper in a further Justification of your Remonstrance and also of its Vindication and to a clearing of my self from those many charges of mutation and change which to beget a d●sesteem of what I have written in Vindication of the Remonstrance hee hath laid against me My intention in this my addresse unto your Lordship to the worthy Aldermen and to all the rest of the Common-councell is neither to exasperate you against the person of my opposite nor yet to seeke protection from you for my self or Books for if what I have written be not co●cordable to Truth and true Reason let both mee and them fall before my Antagonist But being thus publ●kely charged that I should not very long since speak something but what it is hee saith not in Common-councell c. as if it were crosse or contrary to some passages in the Remonstrance or to what I have written in the Vindication thereof for saith he It makes them that heard it and observe what your Carriages are now stand with admiration and amazement at your wheeling thus about I ●oe therefore humbly crave leave to present this my Justification of your Remonstrance and its Vindication to your Lordship and to the whole Court of Common-councell and doe appeal to all of you in generall and to every one of you in particular t●●estifie against me if at any time since I had that undeserved honour and happinesse to be a member of this Court there ever fell any one word from me so much as savouring of such things as by this Mr. J. P. I am charged to speak in your presence and I shall ever remain Your Lordships and this Cities servant IOHN BELLAMIE To my truly Loved and Honoured FRIEND Mr. IOHN PRICE SIR I Have perused your Book entituled The City Remonstrance Remonstrated or an answer to my Vindication of the said Remonstrance wherin I perceive you have been very ready to receive whatever Reports either true or false have been broug●t unto you conc●rning my carriage in matters of Religion even from the day of my birth to the publishing of your Book and taking them upon trust for you have not the least knowledge of any one of the particular● and many of them relate I think to the time before you were born without ever speaking one word to me about them though wee are professed and have been long acquainted ●ntimate Friends and to the best of my knowledge and remembrance not any time the least offensive word ever passed between us and now are so neare neighbors that whenever you p●eased in lesse then one quarter of an hour you might freely have communicated to me whatever you h●d a desire to bee satisfied in you have as I con●eive to weaken my esteem and to render what I have written to bee the more invalid divulged them to the world Two th●ngs I desire i● love to represent unto you in this First if all that you have written of mee were true the contrary wherof I shall easily prove when I come to the particulars yet I beseech you consider how irregular this your proceeding against me is and contrary to the rule given by our Saviour Christ for you and mee and all Gods people to walke by in Mat●h 18. 15 16 17. If thy brother trespasse against thee goe and tell him his fault between thee and him alone if he shall heare thee thou hast gained thy brother c. and mind that of Solomon Prov. 15. 18. A man that beareth false witnesse against his neighbour is a maul a sword and a sharpe arrow Secondly I pray also remember how exceedingly your selfe and all your friends the Antipresbyters have distasted and by word of mouth often with much dislike blamed Mr. Edwards for medling with personall matters notwithstanding his way of writing in this kind is much different from this of yours as being of practises and matters within these few years since they went into that way of Independency and as hee conceives flowing from their principles and not as you in this of things raked up through the whole course of their lives being also professedly to discover the errors of the times viz Here●ies Blasphemies c. and thereby to preserve the people from the evill of them Now I pray

receiving into their Honourable House by any p●bli●e act manifested to the world the least dislike thereof and yet must Lon●●●s Remonstrance by one of its own members be charged with raising a prejudice against the Parliaments innoceney I pray consider whether by this you doe not first charge the House of Lords for their being well satisfied with that which yet you say doth raise a prejudice against the Parliaments innocencie And secondly whether you doe not prejudge the judgement of the House of Commons and therein breake the Priviledge of Parliament in passing such a sentence and laying such a charge upon that which yet lyeth under their consideration I onely offer these two Quaeries to your after or second consideration But for a ● this you say that this shall bee fully evidenced before you have done Answ. I pray remember what it is that in this you promise and be sure that in the particulars of it you make your Charge good otherwise you must not bee offended nor take it ill if according to the common Proverbe you be judged to be one of them which will undertake more in an houre then you can performe in an age I appeal to the Reader whether as yet either the Moderate reply or this your Remonstrance Remonstrated hath in any one instance which either of you have given or in all that both of you have done done any thing which proves that the City Remonstrance hath raised a prejudice against the Parliaments innocency and t●●ly you must needs beare with me in this that I cannot judge your bare word to be of that Authority as to beleeve it because you affirme it especially considering the honorable House of Commons hath not as yet passed any the least displeasing sentence against it and the honorable House of Lords hath declared that they are wel satisfied with the particulars contained in it And both House● of Parliament since their receiving of this Remonstrance have in the Propositions sent to his Majesty for a safe w●l grounded Peace● even in terminis proposed more to his Maje●ty for his R●oyall assent as unto Reformation of Religion then the Remonst●ant● have desired in their second third and fourth Petitidus so much condemned by you for the drift of all that they desire is 〈◊〉 an equall conformity of all the Subjects of England to the publike dis●ipline and doctrine set forth or to bee set forth by Authority of Parliament as by reference to those three Petitions will clearely shew but both Houses of Parliament in their great wisdome faithfulnesse and care for the publike safety and peace of the Kingdome have in the fifth and sixth Articles of the Propositions in these words thus proposed viz. Ar●ic 5. That Reformation of Religion accordin● to 〈…〉 by Act of Parliame●● in such manner as both Ho●ses have agreed 〈…〉 agree upon after consultation had with the Assembly of 〈◊〉 And Article 6 it thus followeth For 〈◊〉 much as ●ot● Kingdome● are 〈◊〉 oblig●d by the same Covm●n● to indeavo●● the ●●arest ●onjunction and unif●rmity in matters of Religion that such unity and 〈◊〉 in Religi●n according to the Covenant as after 〈…〉 Divines of b●t● Kingdomes now assembled 〈…〉 shall bee 〈◊〉 agreed ●pon 〈◊〉 Houses of Parliament of England and by the Ch●rch and Kingdome of Scotland be 〈◊〉 by Acts of Parliament of both Kingdomes respectively And therefore were I thought worthy to bee of your Councell I sho●ld advise you to bee so inge●●ous as in this to confesse your error and not to imagine that you see more in the City Remonstran●e then either one or both Houses of Parliament can yet discerne and for after times I wou●d perswade you to forbeare the thus unjust besm●a●ing and falsly acc●sing that City wh●reof you are a member 〈◊〉 amongst whom under God you enjoy your livelihood You g●e on and say 〈…〉 Reply 〈◊〉 with adversary ●pon adversary representi●● the Au●hor of the said ●ooke a lyer because 〈◊〉 tells 〈…〉 a friend to the Parliament Ans● Truly these are fine 〈◊〉 if they were true to beget 〈…〉 Remonstrance and to ingratiate the opposer● in the eyes of the people But I pray what doe you 〈…〉 I must needs say you tread in the 〈…〉 Replyer 〈…〉 and it 's very 〈…〉 the book and the page if you 〈…〉 and tell us the truth you have told 〈…〉 you are called a Lyer and where you are 〈…〉 you are a friend to the Parliame●● 〈…〉 be taking with children 〈…〉 The next thing you fall upon is in your fourth page and that is the word Humble Remonstrance and upon this you descant in some similitudes as of Court complements and Cavaliers carriage and then in plaine termes you call it a Remonstrance invective against the Parliament Answ. You are full of charges though never so false and liberall in your expressions though you make nothing good I conceive you thinke your selfe safe and secure and perhaps you are so from ever giving an accompt of these your actions to any earthly authority but yet methink● the words of the ninth Commandement should be of some authority to you and beare some sway with you viz. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse against thy neighbour If not against a particular person then sure not against a Corporation a City whereof your self are a member Then you are offended at these expressions viz. Two late Libells published by two Anonymusses and you aske why I call them Libells before I prove them so Answ. They were so in themselves before I named them so neither called I them Libells for any of those reasons which you would have the world beleeve I did As first because they are written by an Antipresbyter nor yet because they containe in them lies falsities untruths though all these in severall instances are in the vindication made good against them nor because they are little Bookes nor yet singly because they are written against the City or because they are without the Authors Names but for these two last reasons joyntly and together A Libell I call that which is an untrue and therefore an unjust Charge upon or against a Person a Corporation a Court without any name annexed to make good what is there charged and in this respect I appeale to the Reader whether I did not truly and justly call them Libells Lastly before you come to the body of the Booke you have yet another fling against the Title A Vindication of the City Remonstrance that is say you a Vindication of that which is invindicable And therefore say you better it would bee that both the City Remonstrance and the vindication thereof were written in ashes with the finger of vanitie then in marble with the pen of a 〈◊〉 c. Answ. For ought I yet see it is but one 〈◊〉 opinion and he none of the gravest neither that the City Remonstrance is invindicable and what you have said to prove it to be so I desire the Reader to judge

debate between you and mee but your thus elevating mee up in praises i● this and some such other passages in your Book is only to cast me downe with the greater violence so farr● as you can to my defamation and destruction but I pray consider ●nd l●t your owne heart bee y●ur owne Iudge for I will not accuse you whether your dealing with me in this be not just like the Devils with our Saviour Christ Matth. 4 5 6. who tooke him up to the Pinnacle of the Temple that so if it were possible hee might breake his neck by throwing him down to the ground But say you my tendernesse of conscience appeared In that I would not personally sell such Bookes as Prayer books which were ordinarily sold by other Stationers and in my Masters Shop Ans. Mr. I. P. you and the Reader shall both see by this first particular what credit either you are to give to the reports you have heard of me for there is not any one thing that you deliver upon your knowledge but all upon heare-say and you know the old Proverb● Fam●est mendax or what little regard is to bee had to what you all along in this and in other particulars have written of mee For as you have delivered them I solemnly professe that to the best of my knowledge and remembrance there is not one of them true I confesse that neither my selfe nor any of my fellow Servants did sell any Play-books or other books in that nature and our not selling these was by my Masters owne order and direction and that upon such good grounds as I know you neither will nor can question But for the particular which you instance in viz. Prayer-books there is but one man living that I know of that can testifie any thing upon knowledge concerning my practise in this particular and that is my Master Mr. Nicholas Bourne who was concerned in it and therefore his testimony is the more considerable I le give it you in as an answer to what in this you have Printed upon the Credit of your reporters and that in his own words written to mee in a Letter upon the sight of this passage in your Book it thus follows This 24. of Iuly 1646. Mr. Bellamie This day there came to my hands a Booke called the City Remonstrance Remonstrated where in pag. 1● I find you are accused that when you were my S●rvant you would not sell Prayer-books To which I answer to prove the contrary that I know you nev●r refused to sell any Prayer-books and that I printed a Prayer-book called The Supplications of Saints of which I doe beleeve you sold some hundreds And this I test●fie under my Hand the day and year● above written P●r me Nicholas Bourne The next thing you fall upon thinking thereby to defame me is That after I set up Shop for my selfe the businesse of Infants B●ptisme grew into deb●te and say you I then fell into the Opinion of the An●baptists c. Answ. Mr. I. P. I am sorry you should so easily entertain reports without ground and so freely publish them to the World knowing nothing of them hee that told you this if hee knew what it was hee said unto you knows that as unto the point of time hee told you an untruth I confesse that many years before this even when I was not above 17 yeares of age I did upon some s●ruples put into me by an Anabaptist entertaine their opinion but I blesse God it was not above a moneths time before the Lord discovered my error to mee It is now above 30 yeares since and must this be raked up afresh by you and throwne in my face to blemish what you can that which I have written in defence of the Remonstrance Is this a carriage becomming a sober Christian one ●olid argument or good reason if you had them to give against the Remonstrance or its Vindication would with wise men bee more regarded then twenty such uselesse or vaine reports Then you tell the Reader of my applying my self to a separate Coxgregation and of my continuance with them and the manner of departing from them and all this you affirme it seems as upon your owne knowledge for you doe not in all this say as in others things it is reported so but positively affirme the particulars to be so Ans. I am sure you know nothing more nor lesse of all that in this you have written for the time you relate to was neare twenty yeares before you and I ever saw the faces one of another but to shew you your mistake and to let it appeare how you are abused in receiving and have abused mee in divulging of of th●se things I le give you and the world being as it wer● thus by you called thereunto a true account of them It 's true I did above thirty yeares since apply my self to that Congregation whereof Mr. Iacob was then Pastor with whom I continued in Communion all the time he continued in this Kingdome and some yeares after but that this was then as you affirme a Separate Congregation I deny and son proof of what I say I appeale to the confession of the faith of the said Congregation published in print in Anno 1616. Which was a little after the time applying my self as you call it unto them in which it doth appeare that Separation was then witnessed against by that Congregation and the judgement of that Congregation then was that the pub●ique Congregations in this Kingdom was the true Churches of Christ the Ministery thereof as received by the people a true Ministery the Ordinances there administred both of Baptisme the Lords Supper c. the true Ordinances of Jesus Christ and that wee not onely might but in some respect ought to joyn in Communion with the said publique Congregations in the said Ordinances and that not so to doe was our sinne I le give it you for your present satisfaction in the very words of the printed confession of the Faith of that Congregation Article the eleventh the latter end of it thus it is It being no evill nor any appearance of evill justly in us to joyne to the Parish-Congregation and Ministery in such respect and so far fort● on●ly 〈◊〉 is aforesaid wee ought as wee bel●eve sometime on w●ight● occasion so to joyne and wee sinne if wee doe not This printed confession of Faith I have by mee and am very ready for the cleare and full confirmation of what in all this I write to shew to you or to any one that desires satisfaction in the truth of what I affirm And as it was then the judgement of that Congregation so was it also then the practice of the members thereof And for the proofe of this I appeale first to so many of the then members in generall of that Congregation who are now living and knew the Churches practice in this particular and in speciall to Mr. Sabine Staresmore who I conceive and

which they viz. the Congregation did reserving the other of compleat stating them into their Offices unto themselves which they viz. the Apostles effected the texts for confirmation which with a single eye I desire to be considered of are Acts 6. v. 3. for the precept injoyning the duty and v. 5 and 6. for the duty in obedience to the precept performed the words are Chuse you out whom we may appoint not chuse you and appoint 2. That which the Apostles reserved in this place to themselve● in their precept to the Congregation and accordingly after practised as in the first appeareth so also in other Congregations or Churches they did the like as Acts 14. 23 When they had 〈◊〉 them Eld●rs in every Church they that is Paul and Barnabas as appeareth v. 12 14. If it bee objected that this was done by Officers extraordinary which had their Calling and Commission immediately from God and therefore is not fitly brought so as to require the like to bee done by ordinary Officers I desire for answer to it this third reason may be con●idered 3. That which in this kind was done by the Apostles which I grant were extraordina●ily called by God and gifted accordingly the same was after done by them which had their ordinatio● by ordinary Officers in Churches as Timothy Titus as appeareth 1 Tim. 4. 14. where Timothy was ordained by the hands of the Company of the Eldership and he in particular and not the Congregation in generall is charged before God and the Lord Iesus Christ and the elect Angels to lay hands suddenly on no man 1 Tim. 5. 21 22. which Scripture with submission to better judgments I conceive teacheth these two duties 1. That Timothy an ordained Officer ought to lay on hands in Ordination and not any other but Officers ordained 2. That they that doe Ordaine ought to doe it with advisement and great deliberation not preferring one before another partially And as Timothy so Titus as testifieth the Apostle 1 Titus v. 5. was left at Creta to ordaine Elders in every City And for my part I am ignorant of any one example in all the new Testament where Ordination was performed by any but Church Officers and for the clear and distinct understanding of the quality and difference of Church Officers extraordinary and ordinary that we may know which is which I desire that this Scripture may bee considered Gal. 1. 1. Paul an Apostle not of men neither by man but by Iesus Christ where the Apostle to prove his Apostolicall or extraordinary Calling affirmeth that hee was not an Apostle of men neither by man for then hee had been but an ordinary Minister but by Jesus Christ and so as his calling was extraordinary his O●●ice is the like from whence followeth this inference that such as is the calling such is the Office they that had their calling immediately was extraordinary Officers such was t●e Apostles such as have their calling mediately or by means are ordinary such was Timothy as in the fore-quoted Scripture may appear and so are all such as have their Ordination by preced●nt Church Offi●ers This interpretation I so give as upon a better manifested I shall desire to r●tract this 4. If it had been in the power of the Congregations as to elect so lawfully and without sinne to Ordaine the Apostle might have written from place to place Letters of direction according to which Congregations might have proceeded and so of themselves effected it and then the Apostles by that might have had the more time for the publishing of the Gospel of Christ in other places where yet they had not been and not have travailed so many miles back againe from place to place to Ordaine Elders which if lawfully it might have been omitted it would have spared them much paines and much advanced the publishing of the Gospel for wee see that when the Church omitted another Ordinance viz. Excommunication the Apostle went not to them but sent to them to doe it 1 Cor. 5. 5. That which the holy Ghost maketh two distinct Ordinances in Churches and commands them to bee performed by persons of a twofold or distinct consideration in Churches that none ought to confound or make them one Ordinance neither ought they to be performed by Churches otherwise th●n by the persons in the said twofold or distinct considerations But the holy Ghost maketh Election and Ordination two distinct Ordinances in Churches commands them to be performed by persons of a twofold or distinct considerations in Churches viz. Election by the members Ordination by the Officers Act. 6. 3. Therefore none ought to confound or make them one O●dinance neither ought they to bee performed by Churches otherwise then by the Persons in the said twofold or distinct considerations These things thus considered prove this Conclusion That that Church or Churches which hold and enjoy their Church Officers any otherwayes then by the Ordination of former Church officers hold and enjoy them not according to the mind of C●rist and all the administrations of such Church Officers their manner of entrance into their Office not being grounded on Scripture are unlawfull and not to bee c●mmunicated with and this is the ground of my withdrawing my selfe from that Congregation with whom I formerly walked If it bee objected I formerly made question of this same particular and yet after that walked with the Congregation again I answer that it is true and that I did upon this ground as to some it 's evidently known After some question with the Congregation about it one of the members who formerly also had doubt●d of the same thing at last said hee was stayed for the present upon this consideration That if the Ordination of the Church without Officers were not of force to give a compleat being by Ordination to a Pastor yet our Pastor having formerly been Ordained by a precedent Ministery in that respect his Ministery was t●ue and his Administrations lawfull unto which as willing to embrace any truth manifested I assented and upon that ground and no other I received his Ministery and partooke in and communicated with his Administrations and this not secretly but professedly But after that I being in trouble and in probability to be questioned about my practise in this particular I was as some know in mind much troubled for having withdrawne my selfe from the Publike Assemblies and yet enjoying in my own judgement and by my owne confession neither Ministery nor Administrations but what derivatively I had from them and also professing both the Publike Congregations and Ministery and Ordinances to be the true Churches Ministery and Ordinances of ●hrist and so farre pure as for mee to refuse communion with them even by the publike Confession of that Congregation with whom I walked was a sinne I could not then neither can I now tell which way without a great deale of scandall to take upon mee before authority in these respects to

cleare my practice or to reconcile this at least seeming Paradox the rather considering that in this particular I was not onely left alone by the most and best of Orthodox Di●ines Foraine and Nationall but even by that Congregation also with whom I walked who though it hold a necessity of communicating in the Assemblies in some cases and that as before the Churches Ministery and Ordinances be true yet hold not their Ministery in their owne by vertu● of Ordination from a precedent Ministery but by the Ordination of the Congregation unto which neither could I then nor can I now for the Reasons fore-specified give my assent bu● must remaine contrary minded till the force of the Reasons and Argument be taken away or a beter ground bee manifested to mee which at all times I shall desire to embrace Thus desiring what truth herein is contained may be received and what error if any may be shewed that all of us by leaving the evill and doing the good may obey our God in whom I rest desiring ever to be a true Friend and Brother to you all and to all others that love the Lord Christ Iohn Bellamie After the sending of this Letter I received an answer from the Congregation and returned them a Reply a Copy of which Reply I have now by me but upon desire I delivered back the Answer to one of the members and would now have obtained it againe and printed it with my Reply to it but it would not bee granted me I would not have printed these passages but that I conceived it requisite to satisfie you and the reader the grounds of my leaving that Congregation And after this what further passed in that Congregation concerning my selfe I know not Now if that Congregation with whom I then walked was afterwards in their judgements and practice changed or altered from what the Confession of the Faith of the Church then was when I joyned to them and the practice of the members thereof then was while I walked with them as unto communion in the Ministery and Ordinances both of Baptisme and the Lords Supper c. in the Publike Parish Congregations for that is the expression in the Confession and that not thus to communicate in such respect and so farre forth onely as aforesaid was our sin even by our own confession then I pray you tell me for I will not judge whether is most blame worthy they or I and in whom is most mutation to be found But if I may without offence speake it methinkes you exceed the bounds of Christian love and charity yet will I not call it a piece of your Independent justice which we must expect as in another case you call it a piece of Presbyteriall justice which say you wee are like to finde from you when power is in your hands Pag 4. in presuming that revenge against this Congregation and its members hath put me thus on worke in the City Remonstrance and its Vindic●tion for the Lord that searcheth the hearts of all men knoweth my heart and unto him I doe appeale that from that time to this hour● which I thinke is now near twenty years I never had the least thought of revenge in me either against the whole or any particular member of that Congregation but have according to my poore ability been alwayes ready and willing to performe all offices of Christian love and respect unto any of them and I hope as ●ccasion is offered ever shall be and though I cannot agree with them in opinion and practice yet I hope I shall ever love them as my own soul In page 18. you speak of my meeting with a select company of Christians in a cursory way where you are pleased to say more then ever I deserved or had cause to thinke of concerning my carriage amongst them to their comfort and content An●w Truly I blesse God I have often met with sundry s●lect Companies of godly Christians in holy duties and been willing according to the best of my abilities to doe or receive any good to or from them but sure I dare not think you judge this to be criminall but yet you say that with much griefe of soul they assert these things What your meaning in this is as you expresse it not so indeed I know it not I hope as I ever have done so I ever shall endeavour to do or to receive any spirituall goo● from any company of Christians with whom either purposely or occasionally I shall converse and for this you have my minde and judgement which according to that talent God hath given mee is and ever shall be concordable to my practice you may read it in my Vindication page 21. it is in an answer to a Querie of the Replyer viz. what the Remonstrants meane by private and separate Congregations it 's answered negatively in these words That the Remonstrants doe not mean by private and separate Congregations the private meetings of Christian people for Prayer Exhortation Repetition of Se●rmons or any other laudable and Christian familie or neighbourly duties amongst the Saints as to these I am assured all the Remonstrants will joyne with you in your desire that abh●r'd h●th by God and all good men may all requests be that shall bee made for the suppres-pressing of th●se Next you goe about summarily to reckon up such things as either lying fame hath told you or your own fancy dictates to you and for fear of failing you repeat them in several places and therefore where you are pleased to lay them downe I must undergoe the paines to take them up they are in p●ge 19 and page 30. where you say I have been for Bishops and against Bishops for Separates and against S●parates a Sectary and an A●ti-sectary a Schismatick and an Anti-schismatick and so you goe ●urther on in many other the like expressions according to your pleasure Answ. If all these were true which here you specifie and all the former particulars before recited yet what are all or any of these to the City Remonstrance or its Vindication Truly I must needs say that it is a shrewd signe of a bad Cau●e and I thinke the Reader will bee of the same minde with mee when in stead of Arguments or Reasons to confute what is affirmed you must fall so foule upon the Person and the suppo●ed miscarriages of him whom you oppose it seems you had little hope that your selfe by strengtst of Argument should doe any good and therefore you call in for helpe such as it is in this way of combating to cast mee downe just like the Heathens against the Christians in the Primitive ●imes and the Papists against the Protestants in these latter times but I pray ●emember what you say of the Reply in the 5 page of your Booke the latter end That there may possibly be mistakes more then enough in it for the holy Scripture onely excepted where is thirt writing without mistakes May not the

by the fundamentall Constitution of the Kingdome I humbly also conceive that there is just reason for it too and that not onely from the relation which these three Estates have one to another but also because of that interest which one Estate hath in another The King being no otherwise King of England but with relation to the subjects of England and so he hath an interest in them and they are his liege that is his lawfull Subjects or his Subjects according to the Law And likewise the Lords and Commons of England are no otherwise Subjects of England but with relation to the King as hee is the King of England in whom also they have the like reciprocall interest and so he is their liege our lawfull Soveraigne or their King according to the Law and thus runs the formes of our Laws viz. Bee it enacted by the King our Soveraigne Lord with the assent of the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament Assembled But the City of London by the Charter of Edw. 3. in the 15 yeare of his Reigne hath a power granted to the Major and Aldermen and their successors with the assent of the Commonalty to make lawes for the common profit of the Citizens of the same City by vertue of which grant the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Court of Common-Councell assembled being therin as one entire Court the representative Body of the City doe to this day make Laws which are alwayes binding to the Citizens of the same City And there is no other consent required to the consummation of these Laws but the sole and onely authority of this Court and therefore all our Acts of Common-councell are made in the joint names of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in the Court of Common-councell assembled and by the authority thereof and in the addition of any branch in an act of Common councell it is still thus exprest It is by this Court further Ordered c. Or this Court doth further Order c. which doth fully prove that all the power of making or altering or adding to the City lawes rests wholly and alone in the body of that one Court of Common-councell or the greater number of them which doth alwayes consist of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons but all the power of making or repealing or adding to the lawes of the kingdome doth not rest wholly and alone in the House of Commons but the concurrent consent of the other two Estates viz. the King and the Lords is necessarily required to this of the Commons for making or repealing of the Laws of the Kingdome And thus I hope I have answered your first head of Queries arising from that question viz. wherein resides the Supreme power of the Kingdome I shall now likewise endeavour to give a solution to your Argument and all the satisfaction I can to the second head of your Queries For a foundation to build your Arguments upon you produce an Argument of mine out of my Book entit●led A Plea for the Commonalty of London thus it is That Court which hath a power to make a law and by that law to conferre a power upon the Lord Major and Aldermen which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before must needs bee quoad hoe as unto the making of a law above the Lord Major and Aldermen But this Court of Common-councell hath c. Ergo this Court of Common-councell so farre as to the making of a Law must needs bee above the Lord Major and Aldermen Answ. I owne the Argument and for confirmation of what I t●●re affirmed concerning the power of the Court of Common-councell I made it good and proved it d● facto by an act of Common-councel made in the sixth yeare of Hen. 7. upon the 15 of Aprill concerning the choice of the Chamberlaine of London and the Bridge-masters of the City as by reference to the said Book appeareth and I would willingly see what you have to say against it But upon this in your 25 page you thus argue That Court which hath the power to make a law and by that law to conferre a power upon the King and Lords which as King and Lords they had not before must needs be quoad hoc unto the making of a law above the King and Lord But the House of C●mmon● which say you speaking of mee is the kingdome representative even as the Common-councell is the City representative upon your suppos●tion hath a power c. Ergo the House of Commons so far as unto the making of a law must needs bee above the King and Lords But I pray you tell me is there no difference between the Court of Common-councell and the Commons in Common-councel I told you even now in page 42 that the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Common-councell assembled being therein one entire Court are the representative body of the City I never said the Commons in that Court were so and if you had been pleased to have perused that Booke of mine you cite to this purpose and out of which you take my argument viz. The Ple● for the Commonalty of London in page 10. where I instance in four severall acts of that Court viz. the removing of Deputy Ald●n from the Court Mr. Iohn Wilde from being Town Clerk Mr. Tho. Wiseman from being the City Remembrancer and divers Aldermens Deputies from their places of Deputyship you might there have found that I thus conclude it viz. And all this by the joint and concurrent power of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in this Common-councell assembled And what though the Court of Common-councell which alwayes consisteth of the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons have a power to conferre upon the Lord Major and Aldermen that power which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before as I fully proved and therefore without the least mutation am still of the same mind and in that respect as unto the making of a Law are above the Lord M●jor and Aldermen as the whole is above a part● But will it hence follow that the Commons in Common-councell alone and by themselves have either this power to conferre a power upon the Lord Major and Aldermen which as Lord Major and Aldermen they had not before or that they are above them If you will argue from my assertion bee sure you keep my terms and then see how it will advantage you for the confirmation of your argument I grounded this power of making City Laws from the Charter of Edw. 3. in the 15 yeare of his Reigne And in the same Book of mine out of which you took my argument you might also have had my authority for it it is in page 7 in these words Wee have granted further for us and our heires and by this our present Charter confirmed to the Major and Aldermen of the City aforesaid that if any customes in the said City hitherto obtained and used be in any part difficult