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A91309 Truth triumphing over falshood, antiquity over novelty. Or, The first part of a just and seasonable vindication of the undoubted ecclesiasticall iurisdiction, right, legislative, coercive power of Christian emperors, kings, magistrates, parliaments, in all matters of religion, church-government, discipline, ceremonies, manners: summoning of, presiding, moderating in councells, synods; and ratifying their canons, determinations, decrees: as likewise of lay-mens right both to sit and vote in councells; ... In refutation of Mr. Iohn Goodwins Innocencies Triumph: my deare brother Burtons Vindication of churches, commonly called Independent: and of all anti-monarchicall, anti-Parliamentall, anti-synodicall, and anarchicall paradoxes of papists, prelates, Anabaptists, Arminians, Socinians, Brownists, or Independents: whose old and new objections to the contrary, are here fully answered. / By William Prynne, of Lincolnes Inne, Esquire. Prynne, William, 1600-1669. 1645 (1645) Wing P4115; Thomason E259_1; ESTC R212479 202,789 171

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severall Iurisdictions to submission and reall obedience especially when just and agreeable to Gods Word or at least to passive whiles in force where unjust or contrary to the Word Hence the publike Laws Ordinances Edicts of Parliaments and general Assemblies of the Estates have in all Kingdomes Ages without the least dispute oblieged regulated all Corporations Societies Persons within their severall jurisdictions because they are the Representative Body and supreame power of those Realms where all are virtually present and consenting when all or the major part at least assent Hence the whole World have ever held the determioations Creeds Canons Decrees of Oeumenicall Nationall or Provinciall Councels ratified by Emperors Kings and Parliaments obligatory in point of jurisdiction to all Churches persons within their jurisdictions And in truth the chiefe end use of Parliaments Councels Synods approved by God and the higher powers ordained by him is not to advise admonish perswade debate or deliver their opinions of doubts errors mischiefes for this every private man hath power to do and containes no stampe of jurisdistion Power or Authority in it But authoritatively to prescribe Lawes Canons Rules and determinations oblieging otherrs to obedience under paine of exemplary censures and penalties Sixthly It cannot be gainsayd but every man and woman in the world considered meerly as such or as single persons stript of all their naturall civill or Ecclesiasticall relations are of equall Authority and have no jurisdiction power or superiority at all one over another no more than fellow servants fellow Citizens or neighbors out of office have over one another yet look upon the selfe-same persons as they stand cloathed with their severall Relations as members of a family Corporation City Kingdome Church and their very relations make them subordinate and lyable to sundry superiour jurisdictions not only by way of counsell but command Thus children servants wives Pulpits are by a naturall relation established by a Morall Law and sundry divine Precepts subject to all the just Lawes Orders commands of their Parents Masters Husbands not onely by way of Counsell or advise which they may obey or reject at pleasure but of Iurisdiction and Authority so farre as to be enforced to obedience and justly punished for disobedience or neglect according to the quality of the offence and contempt Thus inferiours of all sorts in a politicke relation onely as subjects to their Princes to all subordinate Magistrates Officers in their respective places of power Kingdomes to their Parliaments Cities to their Majors Aldermen and Common-Councell Companies to their Masters Wardens and Assistants Souldiers to their Generals Commanders of all Rankes Schollars to their Tutors Colledges to their Rectors mariners to their Masters both by the Law of God Nature Nations Dictat of common reason are subject to all just orders Mandates of these their superiours to which they must yeeld obedience● under paine of such punishments as are answerable to their contempt and disobedience The same rule and reason holds as firmely in all Ecclesiasticall Relations Take severall private Christians as Christians or severall Parishes or Congregations as they are such and it is certain one of them hath no Iurisdiction nor power at all over another in any Ecclesiasticall matters either to prescribe Lawes to or inflict censures upon one another but only a power to exhort admonish reprove advise or assist one another in a brotherly way But yet looke upon the selfe-same particular persons Churches as Members of a Parochiall or Nationall Church and then in this Relation they are and ought to be subject to the just rules precepts Canons Orders of the Ministers and whole Congregation of which they are Actuall Members even in point of conscience and every particular Church must and ought readily to submit to the just Canons Constitutions Orders determinations Ecclesiasticall Censures of the whole Representative Nationall or Provinciall Church Councell ●ynod ratified by Authority of Parliament in a Regular way under paine of Ob●inacy Contempt Disobedience and exemplary punishment there being the selfe-same reason and equity for severall combined Churches in a Councel Synod Presbytery to have a coe●cive power over every particular Church within their limits as for any particular Congregation to claim or exerise a jurisdiction in point of direction or correction over any or every particular member of it Our Independents no doubt will grant that if two or three severall Congregations unite themselves into one Church they do by vertue of this union become all lyable to the Iurisdiction Canons Orders Determinations Censures of that one Church and those who whiles divided had no authority nor power but onely of their owne members have by this union a Iurisdiction over the Members of all these Churches thus eonjoyned into one As it is with several persons united into one Corporation Society Church or when severall powers Or jurisdictions meet and joyne together in one as the Parliaments Commissioners Armies of two Provinces Kingdome in one Parliament Councel Army the Lords Commons Knights and Burgesses of every County Citty Town and Burrough in both Realmes in one Parliament they have by this their union the whole power and authority of both united Kingdomes Armies Parliaments and a joynt Iurisdiction over both which they had not before whiles seperated even as a Major or King hath when as severall Cities Townes Villages Kingdoms as our ancient Saxon Heptarchy are all conjoyned into one City Realm and therby subordinated to one new Iurisdiction If this then must be yeelded to me it will inevitably follow by the selfe-same reason that severall particular Churches being united together in one Synod Councell Assembly Parliament or Presbytery even for this very end and purpose to prescribe such generall Canons erect such a uniforme Church-government and Discipline for the publicke peace and benefit of the Church as shall equally binde all Churches victually present and combined in it must have a lawfull Iuridicall Legislative power in them to make such Laws Canons as shall binde all particular Congregations not onely as advises or brotherly counsels but as vigorous Lawes which subject the particular persons or Churches who transgresse or contemne them to condigne punishment as the reasons Scriptures formerly alleaged to prove that humane Lawes obliege the conscience in point of obedience abundantly demonstrate These uncontrolable verities never yet so much as doubted in any Age till this clearely discover the falsity and vanity of my Brothers objection to which I will give this further direct answer 1. I deny that every particular Church or Congregation in a Christian State where there are many adjacent Churches under the selfe same Civill Government is an absolute compleat independent Body City or Republike of it selfe as is objected to all intents and purposes without dependency on or relation or subordination to any other True it is that in some respects so far as concerns its own private interest it is a compleate body having a Minister
Nationall Synod wherein these Churches are all combined hath no juridiction or legislative Authority over them nor any other particular congregation under their precincts A doughty Argument much like this in effect The Burrough of Westminster hath no jurisdiction nor power to make binding Lawes for the Burrough of Southwarke not the county of Kent for the county of Middlesex nor any one City County or Burrough in England power to prescribe Lawes to one another Ergo all these counties cities burroughs assembled in Parliament in their Knights and Burgesses have no power to make Lawes to bind any of them nor the Kingdome And what then becomes of our Parliaments Authority and legislative power if this kind of logick be admitted 4. My Brother other Independents generally grant that every Congregation may and ought to give an account of their actions censures proceedings and opinions to another private Church therefore they are not absolute nor simply Independent in regard of other particuler Churches much lesse then in respect of an whole Nationall Synod Parliament or Presbitery which reason others having largely prosecuted I shall but touch 5. I demand whether every particular Church or Congregation whatsoever be such an absolute compleat independent body in it selfe subject only unto Christ c. or only independent Churches and congregations If Independent only I pray shew your Magna Charta for such a peculier priviledge which no Churches else enjoy or challenge but onely yours If all particuler Churches enjoy this priviledge then marke the consequence Papists Arminians Anabaptists Sociniaas Antinomians Arrians Familists and as one Master Williams an Independent affirmes in Print Mahumetans Iewes and all the severall Sects of Religions in the world mustered up by Master Samuel Purchas in his Pilgrimage and Voyages must be absolute and Independent to nor may any Magistrates Parliament Synod make Lawes to regulate reclaime suppresse or punish them because they are subject to none but to Christ and accountable onely to him and their consciences free then every Sectary Schismaticke Hereticke what soever may gather and set up an Independent Church of three or foure families persons in a corner and neither King Parliament nor Presbiteries may question or suppresse them because they are immediatly subject to none but Christ Then persons questioned excommunicated by their congregations or such members of your Churches who either feare your censure or fall into any pett or humour against your Ministers Elders Government may set up a new Church of their owne and so avoyd both your jurisdiction and censures In one word this absurd Paradox would open a large guppe to all Errours Heresies all Sectaries Schismaticks impious practises and opinions without the least impunity restraint or meanes of reformation 6. This conceit derived onely from the Pope himself who claimes this priviledge that he is subject and accountable to none but Christ himselfe in spirituall things and is an Independent Church within himselfe as the Iesuites with others affirme makes every Independent Church or Minister a meere Pope subject and accomptable to Christ alone I beseech you therefore Deare Brother tell me how you can be said to renounce the Pope Popery Antichrist and abolish them out of our Realme to your utmost power according to your Vow and Covenant when as you banish onely one Pope and set up many in making every Independent Minister and Congregation a meer Antichristian Pope exalting it above all that is called God as immediately subiect to none but Christ My Brothers fifth Objection is That Christ should be very unfaithfull carelesse and leave his Church to six and seven if he had not prescribed as exact a Church Government and Discipline for it under the Law as under the Gospel And we should have a mad world he should say Church if it were left to Christian Princes Civill States or Parliaments to set up such a Church-government and Discipline as they should conceive were most suiteable to Gods Word and the Lawes and customes of the Realm and manners of their people I Answer 1. In generall In generall that this is onely words not proofes matters of fact as this now controverted is must be ever proved by reall visible demonstrations not farre-fetched inferences fancies probabilities suggestions or pretended inconveniences of our owne devising Therefore Brother trouble not the world any more with inferences or illustrations of what is not but produce some down-right Scripture proofes of what really is what Philip spake in one sence to our Saviour Shew us the Father and it sufficeth us I shall say to you shew us your Church-Government deliniated prescribed to all Churches in Scripture in all particulars wherein we differ and it shall suffice us but your Inferences from the Tabernacle Temple Ezechiels vision these objected inconveniences neither will nor can satisfie any man who hath any science conscience or reason to guide his choise 2. I answer That Christ hath not been so extreamly negligent or carelesse as to leave his Church under the Gospel at six and seven though he hath not been so exact in prescribing or establishing a set forme of Church-Government and Discipline under the Gospel as he was in the Old Testament in setting downe the patterne of the Tabernacle Arke Temple under the Law as you object For Brother your selfe acknowledge in your Margent pag. 5. 6. upon second thoughts that he hath not done it though you affirme the contrary in your Text Wil you I pray argue that Christ is more carelesse of his Church under the Gospel then under the Law because the manner and time of Circumcision eating the Passeover consecrating of Priests with all their accoutrements the forme of the Tabernacle Temple with all the Services Sacrifices thereto belonging are more exactly and particularly set downe and prescribed in the Old Testament then the manner time or forme of Baptisme administring and receiving the Lords Supper ordination of Ministers the model or fashion of our Churches and their necessary furniture are in the New or because the use of solemne Vowes and Covenants your great Diana the manner of solemnizing Fasts sanctifying the Sabbath Feastivalls Nationall Assemblies c. are more exactly delineated and prescribed in the Old Testament then the New Or which soares higher was Christ more carelesse of his Church before then under the Law because he gave them not the Law in writing as he did in after times or carelesse of the Church under the Law because he gave them not the Gospel then but Law alone Brother your self acknowledge that Christ hath left his Churches childrens consciences more free under the Gospel then they were under the Law exempting them from the Ceremoniall Law and all humane Ordinances to which they were formerly obliged Is he therefore carelesse or unfaithfull I beseech you Brother take heede how you cast dirt in Christs owne face by such strained inferences or charge your Brother with no lesse