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A18004 A discourse Wherein is plainly proued by the order of time and place, that Peter was neuer at Rome. Furthermore, that neither Peter nor the Pope is the head of Christes Church. Also an interpretation vpon the second Epistle of S. Paul to the Thessalonians, the second chapter. Seene and alowed according to the order appointed.; Discourse. Wherein is plainly proved by the order of time and place, that Peter was never at Rome. Carlile, Christopher, d. 1588? 1572 (1572) STC 4655; ESTC S107558 88,721 116

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Apostles where was his swoord than where was his courageous stomacke Did not little Paule dryue great Peter awaye Wherfore yee see that the Pope founding his authoritie ambition vayne glory Supremacie dignitie and superioritie vppon Peter must needes fall it must needes bee grounded vppon errours and iniquitie That which hath twoo heades is monstruous but if Christ bée head as hée is the only head and the Pope also than is it a monstruous body But more monstruous is that body that hath thrée or foure heades for at once there were thrée or foure Popes together euery one called him self head Which of them was the head let them answer if they can if they can not let the head fall with the body If Rome make the Pope holy if the seate where the Pope is can not erre if his church bée catholique and vniuersall how chaunced it that at one time in the yeare of Christ 1411. Clement was Pope at Auenion in Fraunce Pope Vrbane at Roome Benedict the .xiii. succeded Clement at Auenion in Fraunce Gregorie the .xii. was the Pope at Rome Iohn Pope at Bononia and all deposed in the Councell of Constance One of these reuiled an other blasphemed an other cursed excommunicated calling one an other Antechrist Traytor Murtherer Sonnes of Beliall Seruantes of Satan Heretiques Scismatiques and Cruell Tyrauntes If the presence of Peter make the place too bée the best and of most authoritie why was not Hierusalem the chief Cittie the highe See and the Metropolitane of the whole worlde For there Peter preached first and conuerted many thousandes And ye can no● reade of one that hée conuerted at Roome when hée was neuer there as the former discours proueth Where gaue Christ and at what tyme the authoritie and prerogatiue of ●osinge and ●ynding Hée gaue it before his death and in Iurye than by good reason that tyme should bée better than this Iury holyer than Roome for many hundreth yeares after was Roome established Now bycause neyther tyme nor place is estemed among Christians but fayth in Iesu Christ there is the Church where Christians woorshippe him in veritie Then Rome is not too bée preferred before the whole world neyther a Cittie before Citties a Towne before Shy●es a small parte of Europe before Asia Africa and America Besides this why is not Antioche Pontus Galatia Cappadocia Bithynia Asia Egypte and Babylon too bee preferred seeing that there hée preached there hée planted there hée grafted there hee did sowe there hée watered there hée taught and instructed and brought the people from errour to truthe from Superstition to Religion from Tyrannie to Clemencie from Fraude too Synceritie from Dissimulacion and Hypocrisye too Ueritie from Auarice too Frankenesse from Wickednesse too Uertue from Earthly thinges too Heauenly thinges from the admiration of worldly pompe too the contemplation of heauenly thinges from Hell too Heauen from misery too felicitie and from earthly possession too the inheritaunce of Iacob too the bosome of Abraham too the possession of Isaac too the let of Danyell and too the Paradise of the blessed thief NOWE I haste too the confutacion of their Argumentes whereby they go about too proue that Peter and the Pope is the head of the Church But first I will declare a true history from tyme too tyme and that breifly what they were that were afore the Pope and howe the Churche of Rome came too such a prerogatiue and dignitie Christ him self disputed and reasoned with the Doctoures opposing aunswering and con●uting them So did Iohn the Baptiste so did the Apostles so did Stephan so Aquila Apollo and all other that had any of theise giftes which are repeted in sainct Paule And this order of euery man too vtter his gifte continued vntoo the tyme of Theodoret and vntoo the tyme of Gregorie the ninth Pope of that name as appereth by his lawe for hée made lawes that no Laye man should preache of whatsoeuer degrée hée were Noble man Gentle man and other An Elder and a Bishoppe were both one at the beginning Act. 20. vers 17.28 which two verses conferred will shewe you that there is no difference betweene an Elder and a Bishoppe The which Paule proueth and Hierom and Theodoret vpon the same chapter Paule in that place calleth Bishoppes Elders such as taughte the people and instructed them and Deacons such as prouided for the poore lyke too our Church Wardens Afterward they began too alter this order for Eusebius libro .4 .5 affirmeth that the Church was a virgin immaculate vntill the death of Iohn the Euangeliste and than errours to haue creeped in who dyed from the birth of Christ .xxv. yeares And about ● yeares after his death or before the Church began to haue one as cheef whom they called a President or one as an Ouerso●er of the people and here sayeth Beza the Deuill began to practise his peruersitie and laye the foundacion of his Tyrannye Euery Citie and Towne had a Bishoppe that taught them but emong them there was no Supremacie The Emperoures afterward which had certeyne principall Cities in euery Shyre one or more whereto all the countrie about resorted to the Law and to decide other matters gaue greater authoritie to the Bisshoppes of the Moother cities for so they were called then too the Bishoppes of other Uillages in the countrie And as they called the mother cities Metrapoleis or matrikous kathedras ▪ or meizonas poleis so dyd they call the Bishop or Minister thereof or Pastor protonton protenonta proestota or patriarchin or Metropolitin ▪ As they call the great Cities Moother Cities Moother Seates The first seates or greater Cities so did they call the priest therof or mynister or Byshop or pastour the first the chiefe the president a Patriarche or Metropolitane Wée reade in the councell of Nyce that Alexandria was chiefe ouer Egypt Lybia and Pentapolis and Antioche was chiefe ouer the countries about as Rome was in Italie Where was there any superioritie more at Rome then at Alexandria or at Antioche In the second councell holden at Constantinople it was decréed that the Bishop of Alexandria should gouerne the Cast countries that Antioche might haue that dignitie that was appointed in Nycene councell the Bishop of Thrace his countrie the Bishop of Pontus his the Bisshop of Rome Italie and so of all the rest Socrates in his historie repeteth seuerall Metropolitanes which are called Patriarches for they were booth of one Authoritie As Nectarius ouer Megapolis meaning Constantinople and Thrace Helladius ouer Pontus Basile ouer Cesarea of Cappadocia Otrius ouer Miletene in Armenia Amphilochius in Asia at Iconiam Optimus at Antioche of Pisidia Timothe to Alexandria of Egypt Pelagius to Laodicia Diodorus to Tharsus Meletius to Antioche The Bishoppe of Hierusalem to Hierusalem These same Metropolitanes they called also Archebishoppes They say the false framed Epistles ascribed to Clemens and
therfore whatsoeuer the Papistes buylde of Peter * it is soone shaken downe as grounded vpon the sandes If Peter continued full seuē yeares at Antioche in Syria as the Papistes affirme then coulde not hée haue ben at Roome vntill the .iiii. yeare of the Emperour Nero which was .xxvii. yeares after Christes passion By this discourse hée could not haue ben Pope at Roome .xxv. yeares as the Papistes dreame vnlesse that hé had lyued after Nero after Galba after Otho after Vitellius Vespasianus and Titus vnto the tyme of Domitianus as manifestly appereth by their Reignes For Nero reigned .x. yeares after the .iiii. yeares which I haue specified Galba .vii. monethes Otho .iii. monethes Vitellius .viii. monethes which was a yeare a half Vespasianus .x. yeares Titus .ii. yeares So that these .xxv. yeares that Peter should haue ben resident at Rome should haue ●atended too the .ii. yeare of the Emperour Domitianus So that Peter should not haue dyed in the tyme of Nero as the Papistes reporte who affirme with one voyce that Peter was crucefied at Rome with his héeles vpward his head downward the .xxxvii. yeare after Christes passion the .xiiii. yeare of Nero whē as wée haue proued by their own reportes Chronicles Histories Authors that hée lyued .xv. yeares longer euen too the seconde yeare of the Emperour Domitian which was after the passian of Christ lii or liii yeares Hithertoo wée haue proued by the hi●tory and by argument and also by authoritie that Peter was neuer at Roome Now let vs confute their presumptions and obiections They obiect that the olde Authors saee that hée was there I answer that those olde Authors haue no staffe too stick too no scripture no sufficient authoritie not one woorde neyther out of the olde Testament nor of the newe Let vs confute Egesippus out of whom they haue all their fables whereby they woold proue Peter to haue bin at Roome First this fabulous and lying Egesippus is not hée that Eusebius maketh mention of Lib. fourth Cap. 8.22 For hée gathered his books out of the Ghospell ●ecundum Hebraeos Syros hée wrote commentaries wherin hée wrote the doctrine actes of the preaching of the Apostles in an homely simple stile inmanner of an history and did contend erfectually against Heretiques this fabulous Egesippus wrote in Greke Secondly this Author wryteth an highe stile affecteth an other kynd of phrase the other is an homely stile as Hierō noteth This suborned Egesippus wryteth fyue bookes of the destruction of Hierusalem out of Iosephus the other the actes of the church frō the passion of Christ to his own tyme which was after Christes natiuity about .145 yeares Thirdly the trew Egesippus wrote the actes of the preaching and doctrine of the Apostles out of the Ghospell secundum Hebraeos Syros this suborned Egesippus gathered his bookes out of Iosephus neyther doth Hierom nor Eusebius make mention of them Fourthly this Eusebius that wée haue maketh mention of Constantinople vnto the which the citie of Rome was equall in dignitie This was done in the tyme of the Emperoures Gratian and Theodosius in the yeare of Christ as Pantaleon noteth 383. The true Egesippus was about the yeare of Christe 146. and this Councell spoken of in the latter Egesypus was about the yere of Christ 383. so that now it is manifest that this latter Egesippus was 200. yeare and aboue after the former and therefore such a one as serued to set out fables for the mayntenance of the Pope his superstition reade more in Cornelius Gualterus vpon Egesippus and in Vilierius If a man doo well consider those fables that Egesippus writeth lib. 3. c. 2. how that Peter and Simon Magus dyd contende whyther of them should renine Nero his Cosen that was dead and how that if Peter could not doo it hée should dye for it and if Simon could not that Peter could doo it then Simon should suffer death And howe that Peter met Christ at the gates of Rome and asked of Christ Domine quo vadis And how that Christ answered I come ageyne to bée crucified and that Peter returned and was crucified with his héeles vpward It may bée easely cōsidered that hée was one of the Popes friends c. Ireneus in the first chapter of his third booke writeth that Matthewe wrote his Gospell what tyme as Peter and Paule preached the gospell at Rome founded the hurch there If Peter was at Rome at that tyme when Mathewe wrote his Gospell then dyd not hée come to Rome in the second third or fourth yeare of Claudius as the Catholiques reporte For as yit Caligula was aliue and in the third yeare of his Empyre and reigne Matthewe wrote his Gospell Neyther was Paule at Rome in the tyme of Caligula in whose third yeare Matthew wrote his Gospell euen eight yeare after Christes ascension and 41. years after his natiuitie For it was 24. years after Christes deathe before Paule came to Rome Howe could Paule preache at Rome the eyght yeare after Christes ascen●ion when as hée came not to Rome vntill the 24. yeare after Christes ascension Could hée preache at Rome before that hée was there It was the seconde yeare of Nero that Paule came to Rome as shall appeare most manifestly to them that will conferre the 28. of the Actes of the Apostles with the order of tyme with the yeares of the Emperours and with Eusebius in Chronice and Hierome in the lyues of Ecclesiasticall writers Consider whether that Ireneus can make the 3. yeare of Caligula which was the eight yeare after Christes Ascension to bée the second yeare of Nero whiche was the 24. yeare after Christes ascension Nowe if Peter came not to Rome tyll Paule was there or if hée were there with Paule at any tyme then could not Peter bée there tyll the seconde yeare of Nero so that hée was neyther at Rome in the tyme of Caligula who reygned thrée yeare nor in the tyme of Claudius who reygned 14. yeare So that by this order and playne demonstration Ireneus woordes are neyther of force neyther woorthy to bée read much lesse to bée credited Hierome writeth that Peter came to Rome the second yeare of Claudius which is no trewer then this that the same Hierome sayeth that Peter was the prince of the Apostles Was hée the Prince of the Apostles when Paule withstoode and reproued to his face Galat. 2. ver 11. whom Christ called Satan who calleth himselfe but an Elder with the reste 1. Petr. 5. who was sent by the other Apostles Actes 8 Could Peter come to Rome the second yeare of Claudius when as Hierome himselfe in the same place sayeth that first hée went to Antioche where hée was Bishop and from thence hée went and preached to the dispersed Brethren in Ponto Gallatia Cappadocia Asia and Bithinia and then went to Rome the seconde yeare of Claudius and continewed there 25.
Anacletus were chiefe citties Metropoles where were Archiflamines and Protoflamines and therfore Pontianus in Atheneus calleth vinum omnium malorum Metropolin and so say these forged Archiflamines were turned into Archibishoppes Because that the first Emperours were at Rome therefore it was called ta presbeia t is timis that is the chief honour was gyuen to Rome It was the first and Constantinople was the second Of this equalitie or Superioritie or inferioritie read the Councell holden at Chalcedon in the yeare of Christe .453 And Vielerius where it was concluded that Constantinople was of the same authoritie with Rome though it be the second after and Alexandria the third and Hierusalem the fourthe In the yeare of Christ 590. Ihon Bishope of Constantinople ambitiously desired to be Supreme head oikoumenikon pasis t is oikoumenis the Uniuersall Bishoppe of the whole world that was habitable And therefore Gregorie the firste Bishop at Rome of that name called the same Iohn the forerunner of Antichriste Epist. lib. 2. cap. 194. Halfe a score yeare after or little more Boniface the Thirde of that name was made Bishop at Rome and the firste that was ordeined or named Pope or Summus Pontifex the Highe Bishop and this dyd the Emperoure Phocas to haue ayde of the Pope which killed the Emperour Mauritius his wyfe his brother and his sonne with many other and made himselfe Emperour The Pope had this beginning After him euery Pope encreased his authoritie with priuiledges statutes decrées and preceptes tyll that they grewe to such dignitie that they created Emperoures who were wont to create them they deposed them they fought with them they trode on their neckes they rebelled ageynst thē they cursed them with booke bell and candell lighted they pardoned them all that would fight ageinst the Emperour The first Obiection They alledge Scripture for their purpose as the deuill dyd to christ They obiect this place of the Gospell written by Saint Matthew Thou art Peter and vpon this Peter I will buyld my Church Peter saye they is the foundacion of the Church of him it dependeth in him it resteth and hée is the head thereof Let vs aunswere this Obiection with the true Interpretation and Exposition of Chrystes mynde Thou art Peter c. Thy name sayeth Christ is Symon but hencefoorth it shal be Peter a Rocke or stone or rather one depending of the rocke as I promised in the first of Iohn ver 42. that thou shouldest bée called Cephas a stone but I alter it into Peter bycause thy name shal be deryued of mée For I am Petra and thou Peter I Chryst and thou a christian I a Rocke and thou rockye or buylded vpon the rocke The Allusion and affinetie of the Gréeke woord proueth this sense sy ei petros c. Thou arte Peter bicause thou beléeuest in Petra that is in mée the Rocke vpon the which I will buylde my congregation whom I will to bée called Peters as thou arte deriuing their name of mée the rocke bycause who soeuer shal beléeue in mée as thou doest I will gyue him the same name that thou hast Wherefore who so confesseth mée as thou doest shal be called Peter of mée Petra that is a christian of my name Christ. Hierom vpon the 8. of Mathew affirmeth that Peter had his name of Petra which is christ All are Peters which beléeue in this Rocke I will buylde my famelie and congregation vpon it wherfore al my famelie and people are Peters Peter in this place is put for all christians and is a generall woorde signifying all beléeuers and confessoures of Christe Therefore Hierome vppon the sixte of Amose termeth all christes Apostles Peters And the Christ founded not his church vpō Peter as our Romish catholiques cōtend but vpon this rocke which was Peters confession yée shal vnderstand by the text it self What was his cōfession that Iesus christ was the sonne of god Than this fayth of peters is the foundaciō of the church cleauing to Christ which foundacion Paul defineth to be Christ 1. Cor. 3. ver 11. This church congregation bycause it confessed the same Christ that Peter did is very well termed described by Paule to be the establishmēt and piller of truth and by good reason considering it is defined to bée Christes body out of whose head is deriued whatsoeuer nourisheth the body Who soeuer hath this fayth and is a member of Christes body is a Peter As Christ is called a stone so are his people and seruauntes named lyuely stones by participacion as they are the light of the world and salte of the earth bycause the light and salte that they haue is deriued and procéedeth from him as of Petra Peters of Chryst christians That this is the true meaning of this place it is euident hy the 18. chapter of Matthew ver 15. where the same doctrine is applied to all Christians whan hée sayeth If thy brother trespasse ageynst thée tell him his faulte betwéene thée and him If he heare thée thou hast wonne thy brother What is it too winne a mans brother but to loose him from his sinne wherwith hée was bound By the which if hée will not bée corrected lette him bée as an Heathen and a Publicane And thus hée is bound bycause hée wil not repent For sayeth Christ speaking to all christians what soeuer yée binde or loose vpon earth shalbée bound and loosed in heauen Adam and Eue in Paradise were the true church who when they heard the promise how that the séede of the wooman Iesus Christ should burst the Serpentes head beléeued it vpon y which beléefe Christ buylded his congregation and this is the Rocke They did binde themselues in eating of the frute in not obeinge the cōmaundement in offending the lawe They loused themselues in confessing their faulte obeying chrystes voyce lamentinge their facte and beléeuing in him who should bée borne of the séede of a wooman their faith confession of their offence with amendment of lyfe were the keyes of heauen By them they repossessed their felicitie which was lost and reentred into heauen Christ graunted to twoo or thrée gathered togyther in his name their requestes and hée to bée among them If this power and prerogatiue bée equall and particularly gyuen to euery christian and generally to all than is it not onely proper to the Pope If all the congregation may binde and loose then is the Popes authoritie nothing and hée himselfe to be excluded as a reprobate abhorred as a dissembler defaced as an hipocrite reiected as Psichicus in Tertullian was who bragged as the Pope dooth that he had authoritie to forgyue sinnes deposed as an vsurper and condemned as an Antichrist ▪ The congregation is buylded vpon the rock Who is the Rocke Christ not the Pope faith in Iesu Christe not execrable pardones hope in the Lorde not in man. If the Churche
hoggos fleshe saying putano de Dio dispetto de Dio bring mée my hogges fleshe And likewyse for his Peacock when one asked why hys holynesse was so mooued hée aunswered If God caste Adam out of Paradise for eating of an Aple what would you haue mée too doo for my Peacock Is not my peacock better then an Aple And thus they aunswer such blasphemies that in that the Pope was a man hée offended but in that hée was Christes Uicegerent hée could not sinne For saye they though hee were a desperate man yet the seate and place maketh him holye Now I come to their Obiections which they alleage out of their Canons and Doctours The first Obiection HE is saye they the head of the Church that ruleth the whole world But the Pope ruleth the whole world ▪ Ergo hée is the head of the Church I denye the Minor. They proue it by Thomas the irrefragable Doctour in these woordes The Pope sayeth hée is chiefe Bishoppe For as a King ruleth his realme so doth hée the whole world and Bishoppes for his helpe and ease are ioyned in euery citie as Iudges Thom. secund secund 4.98 art 9. 4.20 art 4. What an argument is this of Thomas of Aquine Is it a good comparison to compare a subiect with a King or rather preferre him before the kinge of the Romanes 1 Where was his authoritie when Nero persecuted as they saye Peter 2 Was not Linus as they reporte the second Pope at Rome in the yeare of Christ 82 Where was his vniuersall power where was his might when hée was put to death of Saturninus the Consul of Rome who was inferiour to Vespasian being Emperour at that tyme 3 Did not Domitian kill Anacletus an 84. 4 Did not Trayane fasten an anker aboue Clementes necke and cause him to be cast into the sea anno 102. 5 Was not Euarestus murthered by the same Emperour 6 Did not Aurelianus the Liuetenant the like to Alexander an 121. 7 And was not Pius killed in the tyme of Antonius verus an 121 8 And likewise Anicete an 159. And Sother an 169. 9 And Eleutherius beheaded an 177.191 10 And Zepherinus in the tyme of the Empe. Aurelius an 220. 11 And Ca●ixtus in the time of Seuerus apprehended beaten with clubbes cast in prison throwen out of a window headlonge and his body cast into a pitte an ●26 12 And Vrbanus at the same tyme banished and at length killed an 233. 13 And Pontianus at the same tyme was banished into Sardinia tormented afflicted and suffered death ano 239. 14 And Autherius in the tyme of the Emperour Maximinus an 243. 15 And Fabianus vnder Decius An. 250. 16 And Cornelius also anno 253. 17 and Lucius vnder Valerianus ann 255. 18 and Stephan vnder Galienus beheaded an 257. 19. Sixtus the second of that name was likewyse martyred An. 267. 20. So was Dionysius An. 277. 21. So Felix an 282. 22. So Eutichianus an 283. 23. So Caius anno 295. 24. So Marcellinus an 303. 25. So Marcellus anno 308. 26. So Eusebius an 309. 27. So Melchiades an 314. The Papistes say that all these were Popes I praye you how ruled they all the world as Thomas sayeth the Popes doo where was their auctoritie aboue all Kinges Princes Emperours and Monarches If of God or of Peter or of them selues why did they not resist why were they put too death If they had none as none they had in deede than of whom had the Popes following their power tyrannie to kill innocentes to depose Emperours to disgrade Bishoppes to rule in hell heauen earth and purgatorie to absolue à poena culpa to do what they lust to oppresse banish and murther The second Obiection Well say what you will the Pope is meruelous for hée hath his name of merueling And hée is to be wondered at bycause hée is Peters vycegerent in the earth for hee hath his name of Papae an Interiection of merueling And without doubt hée occupieth not the place of a pure man but of the true god Textus est in Codice in t corpor de transl Episcopi I answer You say that hée hath his name of Papae an Interiection of merueiling in deede the Reuelation and Paule sayeth that Antechrist when hée shall come which is the Pope shall woorke meruailes and do false myracles by Necromancie and iniquitie The third Obiection Hath he not a great preeminence when as no man neyther may nor dare aske him in any matter why he doth so De poen dist ex perso The fourth Obiection Neyther is the Pope Peters vicegerent but hee occupieth the roome that Peter occupied Gloss. in Clement vna de iure iur in verb. vicar The fifth Obiection Doo you not knowe that the Popes name is chaunged in hys Creation Consecration and enstalling that by the chaunging of the name the man may likewise bee chaunged For where hée was a pure man before now is hée become the Uicegerent of the true God as in example Who was a cruell tyraunt before is nowe chaunged and called Clemens Hée that was hurtfull is now Innocent Hée that was a maleface Boniface and so foorth of the rest Hath not the Pope both the swoordes Is not hée an heretique that breaketh the constitution of the Pope or that holdeth that the Pope is not able to make a constitution hée is a paynim that wil not obey the Pope The Pope may depose the Emperoure without a Councell yea with a cause or without a cause Stat pro ratione voluntas These Obiections are thus to bée aunswered that as none of these are conteyned in the scriptures no more are they to bée credited than fables of Homer or Ouide In chaunging their names they detect their hypocrisie who will beléeue that the chaunginge of a mans name will make an euill man a good man of a dishonest an honest Besydes this is not the Pope a man still though hée bée anoynted consecrated enstalled and entromyzed Is not an Axe an Axe though hée haue a Childes coat vppon his backe ought hée to rule the Empernur Is not hée bounde too gyue too Caesar that which is Caesars Notwithstanding one cursed Iames de Terano Chamberlayne to Vrbane the sixt Pope of that name in the yeare of Christ 1385. interpreteth this place of Luke of the Emperours before Christes passion but after that Chryste was ascendeth into heauen as victor and conquerour hée writeth thus When I shalbée lifted vp from the ground I will drawe all too my selfe that is sayeth the sayd Iames I will take away all Empire Kingdomes Iurisdictions and Dominions of the worlde from the Emperours and Kinges and gyue them too the Pope who when hée hath subdued them and brought them in subiection hée may vse the Royaltie riches gorgeous apparell and all other thinges as subiect too him This cursed Iames as Molineus termeth him is too bée condemned of treason for forging a false coyn