by way of conclusion what hee would have called Heresie Ibid. This would I rather call Heresie saith he to accompt mens writings among the Scriptures of God and so doe they that thinke it a wicked matter to dissent from the writings of man no lesse than it were the judgements of God Now that your men are guilty of such Heresies in the highest degree appeares by his owne confession Ibid. l. 1. c. 2. p. 14. for he complaines of Gratian who did insert the Popes decretall Epistles amongst the holy Scriptures as if they were of equall authoritie with them and he speakes as an eare witnesse of others who in their publicke Sermons have declared that whosoever shall dissent from the opinion of St. Thomas is to be censured for an Hereticke O fortes verbi Dei Praecones O powerfull Preachers of the word of God saith he or rather I may truly say of St. Thomas doctrine l. 1. c. 7. for by this meanes it will come to passe that blessed Bonaventure must be censured of heresie Ibid. p. mihi 31. for he crosseth St. Thomas and blessed Anselme must be suspected of Heresie because contrary to Thomas opinion he thinketh him not a lover of our blessed Virgin who refuseth to celebrate the Feast of her Conception As this Author wrote a tract against Hereticks so likewise he professeth that the head of the Roman Church as well as the members are subject to that capitall accusation whereof you accuse the Reformers and particularly he doth instance from Platina in Pope Liberius for an Arrian Hereticke and Pope Anastasius for a favourer of the Nestorian Heretickes and withall hee resolves the question which without all question is so to bee resolved that the Pope which you make one of the infallible Rules of your Faith may become an Hereticke You shall doe well therefore to forbeare your name Catholicke till you can free your Pope and his adherents from the markes of Heretickes In the meane time I might more justly retort your owne words cum faenore into your owne bosome and say We Reformed Catholickes not onely stile but prove J. R. and the Romanists to be rightly stiled by the common name of Heretickes I proceed to the rest of your accusations Theodoret say you is wholly impertinent Bellarmine his meaning is abused and his words corrupted First touching Theodoret his proofe notwithstanding your exception stands good for if the agreement of both parties in the Nicene Councell in his judgement ought to have allayed the heate of contention in the Church of Antioch I might well conclude much more that the three Creeds and the first foure Generall Councels wherein both sides agree ought to have abated the edge of your sharpe and bitter Invectives against our Church And as for abusing of Bellarmine I assure you it was farre from my thoughts and you cannot be ignorant that the inference according to true meaning standeth thus If Protestants beleeve and hold all things necessarie for all Christians then are they not to be accompted damned persons and worse than Infidels But they beleeve the Apostles Creed they teach the ten Commandements and administer some few Sacraments which in your Cardinals opinion are those things which are simply necessarie for all to know and beleeve and to this argument you answere nothing but you quarrell about words When I translate nonnulla a few Sacraments you say I falsifie Bellarmine for the word few is not there and yet you know well that by nonnulla hee doth not meane omnia Nonnulla is a diminutive terme signifying not none that is some be they never so fevv and therefore those which he meaneth are but few The word utilia is in the same place of Bellarmine and as for other words added or left out they alter not the sense nor are wee bound precisely to the words but to the sense in translating a passage out of any Author But say you what man ever tooke Babylon for a true Church If by Babylon you understand literally the ancient Citie of Chaldea or that famous City in Aegypt once called by the name of Memphis and now of Cair you know well that it is not my meaning so to take it for you confesse that I otherwise expresse my selfe but that a particular Church as namely your Church of Rome which was sometimes a sound that is a right-beleeving Church may afterwards fall into Heresie and become spirituall and mysticall Babylon this is not onely my assertion but your Romanists and fellow Jesuites in the Church of Rome Ribera your fellow Jesuite of Salamanca in Spaine tells us by way of prevention If Rome shall commit the same things hereafter which she committed in the time of John she shall be called Babylon againe as it was in the case of Hierusalem which of a faithfull City once became afterwards a Harlot And according to the Prophesie of St. John he protesteth in this manner We know this truth so perspicuously by the words of the Revelation Ut ne stultissimus quidem negare possit that the veriest foole cannot deny the same Then he concludes Riberae Comment in Apoc. 14. v. 8. in c. 14. num 31. n. 32. Since Babylon shall be the shop of all Idolatrie and of all impieties therefore it cannot be doubted but that this shall be the condition of Rome hereafter I will come nearer to you Your Monke Sigebert about 500. yeares agoe interpreting the words of St. Peter The Church at Babylon salutes you delivereth this doctrine Sigeb Ep. p. mihi 188. in l. Goldasti Replic Hitherto Peter by Babylon did signifie Rome because Rome at that time was confounded with Idolatrie and all uncleannesse but my griefe doth now interpret unto mee that Peter by a Propheticke spirit by the Church of Babylon foresaw the confusion of dissention with which the Church of Rome at this day is rent in pieces Honorius Bishop of Anthun in France speaking of the fall of the Church of Rome not long after the same time cryes out to the members of his Church Honor. Angust in Dial. de Praedest l. arbit Turne to the Citizens of Babylon and see what they are behold the buildings of that damned Citie consider the principall persons there and thou shalt finde the See of the Beast Thus you see the first Babylonian tels what he feared would come to passe in the Church of Rome hereafter but these two later proclaimed openly that Rome was become Babylon many hundred yeares since and for their loud cries their tongues are now cut out by the command of your Inquisitors How undeservedly were these men punished and forbidden to speake the truth let the Reader judge but that which is observable you raze the Records which testifie for us you forbid them to speake if it make against your Church and then you demand of us What man ever tooke Babylon for Rome I will give you one witnesse more who is ancient and
marriage were restored to Priests yea whilst he was a Cardinall he had his concubine to whom at last he gave threescore Florens for her Dowrie and it seemes when he was well in yeares in or about the time of his Popedome he confessed I cannot boast of any merit in my chastity Magis me Venus Jugitat quam ego illā horreo Ep. 92. for to tell the truth venerie doth rather flie from me than I from it Neither was it his particular case alone for the Booke called Taxae Camerae Apostolicae which your Bishop Espencaeus complained of doth sufficiently witnesse the damnable effects of such divellish doctrine The gravest Cardinals in Rome who were appointed by speciall Commission and presented their information to Pope Paul the third doe sufficiently witnesse the forbidden fruits of such an evill tree The words are these In this City of Rome the Curtezans passe through the streets Wolph Lect. Memor Anno 1535 p. 403. or ride on their mules like honest Matrons and in the midst of the day Noblemen and Cardinals deare friends attend upon them We never saw such corruption but onely in this Citie which is the example and patterne of all other moreover they dwell in faire and goodly houses On the other side you would make us beleeve that your Curtezans goe altogether on foote that they have a speciall badge of dishonestie whereby they may be knowne that they are despised and reviled of the people but especially by Cardinals and the Nobles that they dwelt in out-houses and back lanes but to ride on horsebacke to be attyred as honest Matrons and Noble Ladies to be attended by Priests and Cardinals friends and to dwell in faire and beautifull houses this shewes that your dispensation for stewes is occasioned chiefly by the forbidding of marriage and by this meanes marriage which is honourable in all Heb. 13.4 and the bed undesiled by the Apostles doctrine is now become a sinne and your Apostolike See the Mother of Fornications This occasioned your owne Agrippa to complaine of your casting up of the Bawds rents with the revenew of your Church Agrip. de vanit scient c. 64. de Lenonia I have heard saith he the accompts cast up in this sort he hath two Benefices one cure of twenty Ducats a Priorie of forty Ducats and three whores in a brothell house I list not any longer to stirre this filthie puddle Camerinam movere Eras Adag which stinkes in the nosthrils of God and good men the counsell of your Canonist is safe and good in this particular Panor dè Cler. Conjug Cap. Cū Olim. The Church saith he should discharge the part of a good Physitian who when by experience he findes one medicine rather hurt than helpe he removeth it and applieth another and there hee gives the reason Because we finde by experience that the Law of single life hath brought forth contrarie effects and the rather because it is resolved by your learned Cardinall Cajet in quodlibet contra Lutherum It cannot bee proved either by reason nor yet by authority to speake absolutely that a Priest doth sinne in marrying a wife for neither the Order of Priesthood in that it is Order nor the same Order in that it is holy is any hindrance to matrimonie for Priesthood doth not dissolve matrimonie whether it be contracted before Priesthood or afterwards if we setting apart all other Ecclesiasticall Lawes stand onely to those things which we have received of Christ and his Apostles Againe Panorm l. extr de Elect. C. Licet de Vit. Ab. your owne Panormitan tells us that the Priests of Grecia being within Orders doe marrie wives and we see they doe it saith he sine peccato without sinne or breach of Law either of God or man And thus by your owne Tenet you stand with the positive law of man against the law of God you stand in opposition against the Greeke Church which ever used it and lastly you are at difference among your selves Espencaeus de Continentia l. 1. c. 11. p. 116. when many prime members of your owne Church utterly condemne it The doctrine of St. Paul is evident and plaine It is better marrie than burne This Law is cleane perverted by your Jesuits doctrine Utrumque est malum nubere uri imo pejus est nubere quicquid exclamant adver arii praesertim ei qui habet votum solenne Bell. de Monach l. 2. c. 30. Hist of Trent l. 5. fol. 400. 680. for saith Bellarmine Let our adversaries say what they will it is worse to marrie than burne especially for him that hath made a solemne vow So that the Law of God must give way to the Law of man and chiefly for reason of state and policie For saith Cardinall Rodolpho if the marriage of Priests were tolerated this inconvenience would follow the Priests having house wife and children would not depend upon the Pope but on the Prince and their love to their children would make them yeeld to any prejudice of the Church they will seeke also to make their Benefice hereditarie and in a short space the authoritie of the Apostolike See will be confined within the walles of Rome And to these reasons you may truly adde this as appendant to the rest the dispensation of Stewes would be neglected and consequently the great Revenue of the Roman See would be utterly lost and therefore the Index Expurgatorius will not lay hold of any such doctrine For a conclusion of this point If you say marriage of Priests be malum in se evill in it selfe you comply with the Devillish doctrine of Tatianus If it be evill quia prohibetur because it is forbidden onely then fornication which is evill of it selfe and in it selfe must needs bee the greater sinne CHAP. V. The summe of his Answer to my Fifth Section OF this Section saith he there is not much to be said for there is nothing in it but a litle of the Knights own raving Maldonat approveth and commendeth St. Austins explicacation but addeth another of his owne After this the Knight hath a great deale of foolish stuffe which needs no answer The Reply Your answer is short but your words be somewhat sharpe and you can finde nothing in that Section but raving and foolishnesse If it be raving to cite Texts of Scripture against your maimed Commandements your Invocation of Saints your Prayer in an unknowne tongue your worship of Images and the like If it be raving to say Purgatorie is created a point of Faith that Faith is confirmed by Councels meerely for the benefit of the Pope and Clergie that you doe not exercise the power of your Priesthood in binding as well as loosing by reason no man will give monie to be bound but to be loosed in Purgatorie If it be raving to say your Jesuite Maldonat preferres his owne explication of Scripture before St. Austins onely because it more crosseth the
the See of Rome should be the head of all Churches for before that time saith Vspergensis the Church of Constantinople did write her selfe chiefe of all Churches so that anteà before that time the Bishop of Rome had no Supremacy and this agrees to Pope Gregories owne confession None of my Praedecessors did ever use that prophane Title Nullus unquam praedecessorum meorum hoc tam prophano vocabulo uti consuevit Greg. ep 36. l. 4. Nay more you had two Bishops of Constantinople viz. Iohn and Cyriacus who both successively assumed the title of Vniversall Bishops before ever the Bishop of Rome had any and those Bishops were suborned by Mauritius a bloody Emperour like unto Phocas who at that time made Constantinople the chiefe place of his aboade and by meanes of advancing the Bishops dignity sought to winne the greater credit to the City Gregory the Great writes unto them both severally as they lived in their Sees and doth accuse them of Pride of Singularity of error of vanity and blasphemy in that new title neither doth he make claime to it himselfe being then Bishop of Rome For mine owne part saith he I seeke to encrease in vertues and not in vanitie of titles Greg. lib. 1. ep 30. for if you call me universall Bishop you deny your selves to be that which indeede you are And when Mauritius the Emperour did countenance the Supremacy in the Bishop of Constantinople Gregory greets him in this manner Idem l. 4. Indict 13. ep 32. p. mihi I have received letters from my vertuous Lord that I should bee at peace with my brother and fellow Bishop Iohn indeede it well beseemeth a Religious Prince to command Bishops in such things but this was heavy to mee that my Soveraigne Lord did not rebuke him for his Pride After the death of Iohn the first Oecumenicall cumenicall Bishop Cyriacus succeeded in the See of Constantinople and continued that title of Oecumenicall Bishop by the power of the Emperour and accordingly Pope Gregory writes againe to Mauritius not to take part with Cyriacus and withall writes to Cyriacus at his first entrance into his Bishopricke Idem l. 6. ep 28. that he would abolish the word of Pride by which there was so great scandall given to the Church After the death of Mauritius Phocas who was a souldier and fought under the banner of Mauritius was proclaimed Emperour by the mutineirs who having committed many murthers and cruelties which Cyriacus could not approve for otherwise it is probable he might have continued the title of Oecumenicall he called a Synod at Rome consisting of 62. Bishops and by vertue of his power granted his Letters Patents to Boniface then Bishop of Rome whereby your Popes had the first authority of Volumus jubemus wee will and command And thus Phocas procured his Imperiall authority by treachery and blood Boniface obteined his power and Supremacy by pollicy and flattery of a bloody Emperour and this saith Platina was magnâ cum contentione with great contention Neither did Boniface enjoy this Title many monthes nor Phoeaeescape the heavy hand of God for he was afterwards slaine by Heraclius Quo quis peccat eo punitur as Mauritius was by him From Phocas you ascend to your first Progenitors the Kings of the Gentiles wherein I shewed the originall of your Papall Supremacy not that your Popes did lineally succeede them but that they did exceede them farre in Tyranny But the Pope useth to stile himselfe servum servorum Dei the servant of the servants of God pag. 95. and will you have it say you that by reason of his humility there must not be any Superiority Surely no for he that said learne of me for I am lowly and meeke made likewise this promise to him that would follow his lesson Matth. 20.25 He that humbleth himselfe shall be exalted Howsoever it is not the title of servus servorum that makes him Christs disciple or a universall Bishop for in that he succeedeth rather Canaan then Boniface but he must follow Christs precept and his example his precept was Luke 22.27 That none of his Apostles should reigne as Lord over his Brethren his example was I am among you as hee that serveth Neither is it the title which he assumes unto himselfe that makes him humble neither doe his Proselites followers so much undervalue him as a servant For saith Gerson Gers de potest Eccles consider 12. Fawning deceitfull flattery whispereth into the eares of ecclesiasticall persons especially of the Pope in a shamelesse manner saying as there is no power but of God so there is none either Temporall or Ecclesiasticall Imperiall or Regall but from the Pope in whose thigh Christ hath written King of Kings and Lord of Lords of whose power to dispute is sacrilegious boldnesse to whom no man may say sir why doe you so though he alter overturne waste and confound all States rules and possessions of men let me be judged a lyar saith he if these things be not found written by them that seeme wise in their owno eyes and if some Topes have not given credit to such lying and flattering words You see then the Popes owne creatures and servants would make all other to be servants unto him But it is strange to see how many of your men would palliate and extenuate the Popes power and Tyrannicall usurpation sometimes under the vaile and title of a servant and sometimes by a ceremony used at the time of his creation your Mr. Harding witnesseth both and seconds his humility in the title of a servant with his privie reason that is saith he lest the Soveraignty of honour exhibited unto him Iuel and Harding should in his owne conceit lift him higher then the degree of humane condition to that purpose saith he seemeth the stoole of easement at his creation to be set before him to temper the highnesse of that vocation with the base consideration of humane infirmities and necessities That is to say that he may remember himselfe in the midst of all his glory to be but a man when as in truth it is recorded that the Porphirie stoole serveth to put the Pope in remembrance of his virility Vt sedentis genitalia abuitimo diacono attrectentur â—sa bellicas that the world may know he is no woman Howsoever it seemes the title of servant is not sufficient to teach him humility without the stoole of easement and a stoole of easement is no sweete badge of his humility But this is as common to others as to himselfe and therefore by that way of Hamilitie he will not merit a Superioritie But say you because hee must carry himselfe like a Servant must he not therefore feed the lambs and sheepe of Christ God forbid But Saint Bernard who otherwise maintained the Popes Supremacie told us about 500 yeares since that the Bishops of Rome as well as other Bishops who had the
integritie of corporall refection and the example of Christ it were more convenient to have the Communion under both kindes the Knight hearkeneth to him but where hee lispeth in the language of Ashdod saying that in consideration of the reverence due to this Sacrament it is ill and inconvenient to communicate in both kindes the Knight had reason to turne a deafe eare to him for it is cosin germane to blasphemie to say that is ill and inconvenient which Christ and his Apostles and the whole Church in all places for more then a thousand yeares practised the Knight might well say to Tapperus in the words of him in the Poet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I will be sober with you but I will not runne madde with you To the twelfth For the statute made in the dayes of that Phoenix of his age King Edward the sixt the meaning is unlesse among the people there bee some that either by a naturall antipathie to wine or other infirmitie cannot receive the Sacraments in both kindes it is ordained that it be delivered to every one in both kindes cessante ferreâ necessitate obtinet haec aurea regula that all receive the whole Sacrament in which the Statute and the articles of Religion published first in the reigne of this blessed Prince fully accord For so wee reade Article the thirtieth both parts of the Lords Sacrament by Christs ordinance and command ought to bee ministred to all Christian people alike To the thirteenth That every article of faith ought to have sufficient proofe out of Scripture is proved by innumerable testimonies of antiquitie produced by Philip Morney in his Preface to his booke De Eucharistia Bilson of Supremacie part the fourth Abbot against Bishop chapter the seventh and Laurentius de disp Theolog Neither doth S. Ierome any way contradict them or us for wee beleeve that the consent of the whole Christian Church is an infallible argument of truth Albeit wee teach that any particular Church as namely the Roman or the French or the Dutch or the Greeke Church may erre yet we denie that the catholique Church universally hath ever erred or can erre in matter of faith necessarie to salvation and further I adde for conclusion that as the words of S. Ierome alledged by the Iesuit make nothing against us so if they bee applied to our present subject they make most strongly against him being propounded after this manner Although the authoritie of holy Scripture were wanting for the Communion in both kindes which is not so yet the consent of the whole world on this side testified by their uniforme practise confessed by Papists themselves ought to have the force of a divine Precept and so there would bee an end not only of this Section as the Iesuit speaketh but of this whole Controversie Concerning Prayer in an unknowne tongue Spectacles Sect. 6. a pag. 259. usque ad 283. THe Knight falsly chargeth the Councell of Trent with approving prayer in the vulgar tongue for though the Councell saith that the Masse containeth great instruction yet it doth not say that it ought to bee in the vulgar tongue nay contrarily it pronounceth an anathema against any whosoever shall say that the Masse ought to bee celebrated in the vulgar tongue It hath beene the generall practise and custome in the Church of God of having the Masse and the publike office in Latine all over the Latine and Westerne Church both in Italie Spaine France Germanie England Africa and all other places and so likewise in Greeke in the Graecian or Easterne Church though it were as large in extent and had as much varietie of languages in it as the Latine Church hath Vniformitie which is fit to be used in such things and unitie of the Catholique Church is excellently declared and also much maintained by this unitie of language in the Church office The use of vulgar tongues in the Masse or Church office would cause not only great confusion but breed an infinite number of errours by many severall translations The use of vulgar language in such things would breed a great contempt of sacred things with prophanenesse and irreligiositie besides the danger of heresie which commeth no way sooner then by misunderstanding of holy Scripture The place of Scripture alledged by the Knight concerning announcing our Lords death is not understood by words but by deeds as is most plaine by the circumstances The text of S. Paul where he asketh how hee that understandeth not the prayers shall say Amen is not of the publike prayers of the Church which no man can doubt of either for the truth or goodnesse and therefore he may confidently say Amen to them but of private prayers made by private and Laye men extempore in an unknowne tongue Haymo requireth not that all that are present at Divine service should understand but only that he that supplieth the place of the idiot or Laye-man in answering for the people should bee so farre able to understand as to answer Amen at the end of every prayer Iustinian the Emperour is ordinarily taxed for taking too much upon him in Ecclesiasticall matters yet all that hee saith may bee well maintained without prejudice to the present practise of the Roman Church for in the Decree alledged by the Knight hee requireth nothing more but that Bishops and Priests should pronounce distinctly and clearely that which according to the custome of the Easterne Church was to bee spoken aloud The Canon law capite quoniam in plerisque requireth only that where divers Nations are mingled that the Bishop of the Citie should substitute one in his roome to celebrate the divine Office and administer the Sacraments according to their ownerites and language for indeed it is a matter of necessitie in administration of some Sacraments to use the vulgar language as in Mariage and Penance but not so of other things Lyra Belithus Gretzer Harding Cassander and the rest of the Authours quoted by the Knight say indeed that in the beginning Prayers were in the vulgar tongue but the reason was because those three holy languages Hebrew Greeke and Latine dedicated on the crosse of Christ were then most vulgar none of them speake a word of any Precept There is no precept in the Scripture commanding prayers in a knowne tongue or forbidding in an unknowne whose authority or example can you bring for your selfe in this matter name him if you can It was more needfull in the Primitive Church that the people should understand because they were to answer the Priest which now is not so as Bellarmine noteth because that belongs only to the Clarke That the Knight contradicteth himselfe in one place saying That the alteration of the Church service was occasioned by certaine Shepheards who in the dayes of Honorius having learned the words of Consecration by heart pronounced them over their Bread and Wine in the fields and thereby Transubstantiated them into flesh and bloud and for this prophane abuse were strucken
beyond exception who spake as it were prophetically of the Church of Rome in her most flourishing state St. Hierome writing to Marcella a noble Lady exhorteth her to depart from Rome which he compares to Babylon Hier. ad Marcel Ep. 17. Tō 1. p. mihi 156. Reade saith he the Revelation of St. John and consider that which is there said of the woman clothed in purple of the blasphemy written in her forehead of the seven Mountaines of the great waters of the fall of Babylon Goe out from thence my people Babylon is falne and is become the habitation of Divels and the hold and cage of every foule spirit Now that wee might understand this was not spoken by him of heathen Rome he adjoyneth these words following Est quidem ibi sancta Ecclesia There is a true or holy Church there are the Trophies of the Saints and Martyrs there is the true confession of Christ published by the Apostle Ludovicus Vives your very friend in commenting upon this place tells us that St. Hierome thinketh there is no other Babylon described by St. John in the Revelation than the City of Rome But now saith he it hath put off the name of Babylon Lud. Vives in August de Civ Dei l. 18. c. 22. there is no confusion now you cannot buy any thing now in matter of Religion without a faire pretence of holy Law for selling it yet may you buy or sell almost any kinde of cause holy or hellish for money In D. August Annot. Ludov. Vives prohibentur nisi corrigantur Ind. l. prohibit Class 2. For this and the like passages your Vives is forbidden till hee be purged I must confesse I doe not thinke that the Rhemists would have interpreted Babylon for Rome if it had not beene to prove Peters being at Rome It is happy therefore for you that Peter wrote his Epistle from Babylon for otherwise your succession from Peter had beene questioned and it is as well for us that you are contented to allow Babylon for Rome for by this meanes your Antichristian Doctrine is discovered and your succession of Peters faith is quite abolished But say you if you meane as you expresse your selfe that a true Church may bee depraved I know not what to say but to stop my eares against that mouth of blasphemie And is it blasphemie to say a true Church may be depraved Sure I am it is not blasphemie against the holy Ghost for the mouth of St. Paul hath spoken it in parricular to the Roman Church even at that time when she was a most incorrupt Church Towards thee goodnes Rom. 11.22 if thou continue in his goodnesse otherwise thou also shalt be cut off And may not a Church thinke you be depraved that is in possibility of being cut off What thinke you of the Church of Hierusalem Psalm 48.19 Did not the Prophet David terme it the City of God and was it not afterwards termed a Harlot by the Prophet Esay What say you to the Temple of Solomon was it not termed by him 1 Kings 8.20 the house of Prayer and in Christs time was not that house of Prayer become a denne of Theeves Mat. 21.14 He that sayes Antichrist shall sit in the Temple of God doth plainely intimate that the true Church may be depraved and that before his comming there was a true Church In his answer to Card. Peron p. 9. Eng. What Babylon is saith learned Casaubon thus much the matter it selfe doth plainly shew that whether some private Church be understood in that place by the name of Babylon or the greater part of the whole it was before this a true Church with which the religious might religiously communicate but after it was more depraved the religious are commanded to goe out and to breake off communion with her And as touching the authority you cite that he would be with them to the worlds end that the Church is built upon a Rocke that the gates of Hell should not prevaile against it these promises I say concerne no more the particular Roman Church than the seven Churches of Asia that are falne away The blasphemie then you lay to my charge if any such be is but against your Roman Church and of such blasphemie many of your best learned are guilty in acknowledging a depravation of their faith notwithstanding all the promises of Christ to the Catholicke and universall Church Your Bishop of Bitonto by way of prevention cryes aloud in your Councell of Trent Cornel. in Concil Trident. Would to God they were not wholly with generall consent gone from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist I could bring you a world of complaints against the falling away and depravation of your Roman Faith but that your eares will not endure such blasphemie Howsoever since your best learned have acknowledged Babylon to bee meant by Rome and that Rome is falne from her first faith Jerem. 51.6.9 I say with the Prophet Jeremie Fly out of the midst of Babylon and deliver every man his soule we would have healed Babylon but she is not healed forsake her and let us goe everie one into his owne Country for her judgement reacheth unto Heaven and is lifted up even unto the skies CHAP. III. The summe of his Answer to my second and third Sections IN the second Section he saith I labour to prove the contention betwixt the Churches to proceed originally from them The third Section is to prove the corruption both in faith and manners Both which are easily answered First by asking what is this to the purpose for the visible Church Secondly with the contradiction of a former lye he telleth a new one for the Reformation was sought for manners onely and not for doctrine This is the substance of your third Chapter in answer to my second and third Sections The Reply You have answered two Sections almost in two words the first in denying it to be to the purpose the latter in giving me the lye And thus like another Caesar you have briefly expressed the expedition of your victory in few words Veni vidi vici I came I saw I overcame First you demand what is this to the purpose of a visible Church But I rather wonder to what purpose you make such a demand For my Booke is entitled The Safe Way not the visibility of the Church Yet let me tell you the Authors which I cite are for the most part members of your Church and their authorities tend much to the proofe of a visible Church if your Index Expurgatorius did not spunge them and cause their testimonies to be often invisible For instance in our behalfe I cite Cassander To Cassander you answer he is like your selfe an Hereticke or next doore to them and yet elsewhere you say with much adoe he may passe for a Catholike Pag. 21. Oportet esse memorem I cite Cecenas Generall of the
that shining with theright faith and vertuous workes we may attaine to the kingdome of heaven To the ninth Were the grave authours the Iesuit speaketh of authenticall and these stories gospell yet the Adversarie would gaine nothing thereby nor we lose For we are none of the Iconomachi that bid battell to Images and knock them downe wheresoever they find them with battle-axes Forbeare the representation of the invisible Deity and blessed Trinitie and remove all scandall from the people and perill of idolatrie and let the images and pictures of Christ and his Saints stand where they doe for memorie historie and beautifying and adorning the walls and windowes Wee dislike it not as the Iesuit may reade in our bookes and see in our Churches and houses But the truth is neither are the stories of credit nor the authours of them of that account as the Iesuit would have them Comment in 2 Timoth. Of some of them wee may truly say as Espencaeus doth of Nicephorus that they are in these relations si non mendaces saltem audaces if not altogether fabulous yet very audacious for the image sent to King Abgarus it is of no more credit then the letter sent with it which the Romish Church as all other Christians hold to bee Apochrypha were it Canonicall it should make a part of the New Testament And for the second we cannot but wipe our eyes in bewayling their folly who beleeve that Christ by wiping his face as hee was carrying his Crosse should imprint his image in his handkerchiefe Yea but these images are confirmed by wonderfull miracles wrought by them I answer first out of Biel upon the canon of the Masse Dist in prophano cultu Diabolus plurimùm delectatur quantum valet cooperatur ac assistit apparentibus miraculis Cic. in Ver. act 6. multa prodigia vim ejus numenque declarant Strab. l. 8. Geograph Espenc loc sup cit daemonum spectris mulierum somnijs parum verecundè utchantur Edwin Sands discourse of his Travels Apolog Herodoti per R. Stev that the Divell is much delighted in prophane worship such is your worship of images and helpeth it forward as much as hee can by seeming miracles next that this was the heathens plea for their worshipping of images for Tully speaking of the image of Ceres in Sicily saith many wonders doe shew the divine vertue thereof and the Graecians as Strabo writeth used to set upin tables the diseases cured by Aesculapius in Epidaurius as the Papists at this day doe the diseases cured by the image of the blessed Virgin in Lauretto Thirdly that learned Papists finde much fault with the seventh generall Councell for founding the worshipping of images upon the delusion of Divels and old wives tales and dreames Lastly most of the Popish legendary stories in this kind may easily be proved to bee no miracles of God nor wrought by sorcerie or enchantment through the power of Satan but to be meere impostures wrought by their Priests who are the greatest juglers in the world in this kind To the tenth S. Austine maketh great account of this speech of Varro for hee twice maketh mention of it in this fourth booke First chapter the ninth L. 4. De civit Dei c. 9. Varroni simulacra ita displicuerunt ut cum tantae civitatis perversâ consuetudine premeretur nequaquam tamen dicere scribere dubitaret quòd hi qui populis instituerunt simulacra metum dempserunt errorem addiderunt Varro was so farre out of love with images that though hee were pressed with the perverse custome of so great a City as Rome was yet hee made no bones both to say and write that they who first brought in Images both tooke away religious feare of God and added errour to boote and in his thirtie one chapter he hath this memorable observation the Romans worshipped their gods more then a 170. yeares without images and if they had done so still saith hee the gods had beene more chastly or purely worshipped by them Yea but the Iesuit with a wet finger turneth over these passages as if nothing were said by S. Austine or Varro to the prejudice of their images shrines or Altars for S. Austine by Simulacrum meaneth not animage but an Idoll not the representation of the true but a resemblance of false and feigned deities The distinction of image and idoll I have before refelled nothing remaines for the refutation of this answer of the Iesuit but that I shew out of S. Austine De fide Symb. c. 7. nec id ipsum quod sedêre pater dicitur flexis po litibus fiert purandumest tale simulacrum Deo nefas est Christianoin Templo â—â— locare that by Simulacrum hee meaneth any image even of the true God And not to trouble the reader with many instances those words of his in his Treatise of faith and the Creed clearely convince the Iesuit Wee must not think saith he that God the Father who is said to sit sitteth in heaven-with bowed knees as a man sitteth in a chaire such a simulacrum or image it is not lawfull to set up in the Temple of Christians had the Iesuit but perused the chapter pointed to by the Knight to which he professeth to give a direct answer hee would have given himselfe the lye and checked his former interpretation of S. Austines words for immediatly after the former period the Father addeth that Varro in proofe of his assertion alledgeth the custome of the Iewish nation Hujus sententiae suae testem adhibet gentem Iudaeam Vnum Deum à quo mundum crederet gubernari sine simulacre colendum censuit and a little after he saith that Varro thought that God by whom hee beleeved the world was governed ought to be worshipped without an image by which words it is evident that by simulacra hee meant not only the images of false gods which alone the Iesuit calls Idolls but also of the true God For the Iewes whose custome hee bringeth in for himselfe abhorred all Images or Pictures even of the true God and Varro himselfe by that Governour of the world whom hee would have to bee worshipped without an image meant the true God as S. Austine himselfe testifieth of him Howsoever the title which hee there giveth him of anima mundi or soule of the world soundeth harshin a Christian eare yet S. Austine alloweth of Varro his assertion or opinion as comming neerer to the truth then other of the heathen Phiosophers in that hee taught but one God and him to bee not materiall or corporeall but of a spirituall and invisible substance and therefore not to bee drawne with pensill or counterfeited with colours without errour or impietie To the eleventh Eusebius relateth the storie of Veronica her statue dedicated to the memorie of Christs miraculous cure wrought upon her with approbation there of as being a lasting monument and standing testimonie of her gratitude to