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A18080 The second replie of Thomas Cartwright: agaynst Maister Doctor Whitgiftes second answer, touching the Churche discipline Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. 1575 (1575) STC 4714; ESTC S107569 585,778 717

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iudgement dependeth that no one parte off the worlde no one citie no one the leaste towne receiued the gospell wholy in the Apostles time If I shoulde suffer yow to goe awaie with this greate and vngrounded sainge yet therby can not be concluded that there are more Christians nowe in a parte off Europe then was throwghoute the worlde in the Apostles time But I require proofe of that yow set downe so precisely not onelie because I thinke yow can not warrāt yt by any but also because I haue somewhat to excepte againste yt For yt maie appeare that Samaria did wholy receiue the gospell For beside that yt is recited that vvith one accorde the multitudes gaue heede vnto that Philipp saide S. Luke declaringe in the 10. and 11. verses that all that vvere in Samaria from the litle to the great vvere bewitched vvith the inchaunmentes off Symon addeth in the 12. verse that vvhen they beleued they vvere baptised This hauing relation vnto that vvhich goeth before vvhich is that all were abused by the magycian yt followeth that the whole cytie receyued the gospell Wherunto maie be referred the emulation betwene Ierusalem and Samaria wherby yt came to passe that the gospell thruste oute off Ierusalem was both easelier and more generally receiued in Samaria Lykewise that yt is saide in the 13. verse that euen Simon him selfe off al other moste vntoward beleeued and that in the 14. ver that Samaria had receiued the vvord off God and not many in Samaria as he speaketh off other places where the Gospell was but in parte receiued Yf one excepte that it is not like euery singular person turned at the preaching off Philip I answere that in suche streight signification of all there shall be at this daie founde no kingdome and almoste no citie which hath receiued the gospell But if the whole profession off the gospell be estemed off that which is doone by the bodie and state of the cytie yt seemeth that the wordes off Saincte Luke will beare owte a whole and generall profession at the leaste off the moste parte which yow denie And yf it be trewe that Euseb vvriteth we haue a manifeste testimonie off the whole receiuing off the gospell in the citie off the Edissens which was wonne vnto the Gospell by the preachinge off Thaddeus sente to kinge Agbarus by Thomas the Apostell off vvhom yt is vvritten that he browght all to the knowledge of the gospell and that the vvhole citie of the Edissens hauing at that time giuē her name vnto the profession off Christe so continued vnto the time wherin Eusebius vvrote Where yow vvoulde seeme to saie some great matter when yow add not at Ierusalem yt is asmuche as if yow shoulde say that no towne receiued the gospell because Ierusalem the moste murderinge towne in the whole vvorlde did not vvhose rebellion and for it destruction beinge foretolde off our Sau. Christe muste needes follow For touchinge the Apostles abode there it was not for the hope off any plentifull haruest to be reaped in that cytie But partly for that the Iewes vnto whom they were sente to preache first had their concourse thether from all corners of the worlde partly to fullfill the prophecye off the sounde of the gospell from Syon into all partes of the worlde and thirdly to prepare a readier passage for his heauy iudgementes to come vppon that cytie That also also which yow add that the tenthe parte off the inhabitans off Ephesus Antioche and Rome was not Christian in the Apostles times is onely saide and it is muche for yow to speake so largely off the tenthe not hable to proue the fyueth or thirde And althowghe yt can not be certainly knowen what nomber of beleuers were at thes places yet it maie be by all likelyhood shewed that it is vntrwe especially off the twoo first Of Antioche wee reade that when they which were scattered by persecution moued in Ierusalem preached there the hande off the Lorde vvas vvith them and a great nomber beleuinge turned vnto the lorde And in the 24. verse yt is saide that at the preachinge off Barnabas there vvas a great multitude added vnto the lorde And yet in the 26. verse yt is declared that afterward Barnabas procuringe Saint Paules comminge thether they bothe together abyding there by the space off one whole yeare tavvght a great multitude Here is mention off three great multitudes which at seuerall times were turned vnto the lorde in that citie and how dare yow yet saie that al thes were not the tenth parte Of Ephesus also it is written that the fruicte off S. Paules preaching there by the space of twoo yeares was so greate that the bookes off those which had exercised curiouse and vnlawfull artes vvere bourned in the sight off all men which coulde not be doone without great daunger vnto the church onles the greatest parte off the citie had beleued Which maye yet more appeare for so much as Demetrius the siluersmythe affirmeth that the arte of makinge shrines and Dianas temple vvas in danger to be set at nothinge And as the A. is to narrow in esteming the fruicte of the Apostles preaching accompanied with suche powre off miracles and diuersities off giftes off the holy goste wherby were gathered greater nombers off professors off the gospell then nowe by the symple preaching off the worde so in his accompte off the nomber off professors off the Gospell now he is marueilously lauishe For where are those whole contreis nations and kingdomes which professe Christe If he take in the Papistes to make vp his reckuinge they will not be receiued For wee speake off the churche off Christe and off those which imbrace the gospell and so himselfe had put yt in his answer to the admonition The papistes therfore which pretendinge the name of Christe persequute the gospell are the Synagogue off Sathan and must in this accounte off Christians be shut owte howsoeuer by changing off the professors off the gospell into those which professe Christe yow woulde seeme to winde them in The mixture which was in the Apostels times off professors off the gospell with those which were professed enemies vnto yt beinge yet in those kingdomes yow speake of yow are so farre from shewinge that the multitude off professors off the gospell in Europe is greater now then yt was in then in all Asia Africke and Europe that yow doo not so muche as shewe that the nomber off Christians in Europe yt selfe is nowe greater then in time off the Apostles When it is saide that the whole church assembled for election all men knowe that therby is mente that particular companie off professors off the gospell which dwellinge nighe together make one assemblie and therfore that yow write off the impossibilitie off gathering all the church scattered throwgh out the whole worlde into one place is but a meere daliance Yow saie they mighte well meete withowte confusion in the Apostles times
which can not be nows the reason yow assigne in the fewnes in one place off the professors then and multitude now Althowghe yt be graunted that there are moe nowe in the cities then were then and that be geuen yow too that the multitude owghte to chaunge the forme off elections neither wheroff yow are hable to shewe yet yt still fallethe owte againste yow For allbeit ther be moe professors in a citie then were yt followeth not that there are moe belonginge vnto one assembly then there were thē Wherin I wil goe no further thē to the exāple of the church which yow alledge to haue chosen the deacons vvhere coulde hardly be lesse then sixe thowsande persons seing that at the second sermon of Saincte Peter there beinge fiue thowsande it is affirmed afterward that multitudes off men and weomen were added Now where shall yow haue lightly in the cities vvhich professe the gospell one onely church of so many thowsand persons cōsidering that for the greater cōmoditie of meeting and gouerning the whole masse off Christians in one citie yt is deuided into seuerall churches as it were flockes into seuerall feedinges And if yow vvoulde haue proued any thinge yow shoulde not haue considered howe the nomber off Christians are increased in their cities but howe they are encreased in their churches And so yow shoulde haue founde that by your owne reason the elections in the time off persequution owghte rather to haue bene made by one and the electiōs now by many seinge in persequuted churches for vvāte off the commoditie off diuiding them selues into proportionable assemblies the nomber beinge more the danger off tumulte and confusion muste by yowr owne sayinge be greater Yow saie yt is a verie good reason that because the churche was vnder the crosse therfore yt was few in nomber in comparison but yow answer not the auctoritie which I alledged touchinge the encrease off the children of Israell more vnder the crosse then in prosperitie The reason yow add off many hypocrites in the peace of the churche hath small force For that there are in persequuted churches manie hypocrites maie appeare by the Israelites which dred in persequution made often rebellions in the wildernes likewise by the complaintes off S. Paul that al sought their owne not Christes that al were turned from him That one example onely is hable to ouerthrowe that vvhich yow put so generally yet yowr one example off London is not hable to confirme your pourpose yt serueth yow therfore for a pinche at the citie and for no reason off yowr cawse And albeit the backslyding from the Gospell was throwgh the realme verie horrible in Queene Maries daies yet there is no cause to picke Londō owte as the worste seinge there were great nombers there which vvith hasarde off all they had and of their lyues frequented assemblies vvhere the worde off God was truly preached and the Sacramētes purely administred the like meetinges beinge rarely founde in other places no to our owne shame be yt spokē not in the vniuersitie where of moste righte they should haue beene What gaine yow by that the churche was diminished in Ierusalem seinge the decrease of one churche was the encrease off diuers other wherunto those off Ierusalē adioined them selues Therfore yow conclude not well in sainge that particular churches by persecutions are diminished because one churche off Ierusalem was so no more thē yow can saie that a man hath a vvhite head because he hathe one white heare on his head but I maie rather saie that by persequution the particular churches are encreased for somuche as Samaria and other churches were by that flight of Ierusalem partly adorned with teachers partly augmented in disciples And therby is confirmed that I haue set downe off the merueilous spawne off the churche vnder the crosse bothe becawse euerye one dryuen from Ierusalem was as good seede which browght his hundreth or fiftie folde and for that after Ierusalem was deliuered of that birthe she conceiued againe and browghtforthe as maie appeare a greater nomber then before What are my vvordes vverby I affirme that the churches in time off persecution meete often and kepe together yt is that I precisely denie Verely this is too homelie rhetoricke to affirme I saie that vvhich I manifestly denie And althowghe it be more clearer then the son̄e that a smaller nomber maie better knowe one a nother then a great those which dwell nere one to a nother then that dwell farre of and scattered those vvhich meete oftener then vvhich meete seldomer yet the A. dowbteth not to saie that the contrarie of this is a knowen trwthe Wher he alledgeth for profe the often conference and triall off euery one before they be receiued For the firste yt maie be easelie vnderstanded that seinge yt is daungerous for them to meet together godly politie doothe teache them to breake their companies as soone as they maie conueniently And therfore the publicke action ended off preaching prayinge and receiuing the Sacramentes the conference which may be and is commonly in the churches peace one vvithe another throwghe feare off the daunger vvhich maie come off being seene man it together is cut off As for the knowledge by triall off those vvhich are receiued into the churche if he knewe that yt comethe onely off the reporte off twoo or three which giue testimony off those which are to be receiued and that yt extendeth not to any vnderstanding gyuen to the churche off his giftes either of teaching or gouernment but onely that he is a faithfull man I saie if he knewe thes thinges or knowing thē woulde acknowledge them there shoulde be no cause vppon confidence off that triall to fasten such knowledge one of a nother in a churche persequuted Before I further answer the D. reason touching the change of the manners of the Christians in times off peace from that they were vnder persequution vnderstand good reader that this is the very reason off the archpapist Hosius againste the election off the church which affirmeth that there is greater grauitie and constantie in the Christians vnder persequution and therfore that this manner off election by the bishop was browght in nowe to Hosius and the D. I answer that when wickednes breaketh into open actions then they are no more Hypocrites but openly wicked and suche as owght not onely be taken heed off but without speedy amendement remoued I graunte yt is no shame to the churches to haue Hypocrites for asmuche as the iudgement off man can not discerne them and off them and none other is the parable off tares vvhich forbiddeth weeding vntill the daie off haruest and they are onely those which can not be rooted owte But to saie that beside those which are corrupt in religion yt is full off dronkardes whoremongers c. Yt is more then euer S. Paule reproched any the moste diffigured churches he wrote vnto For how manie suche persones as be founde in
when I added they were argumentes drawne off the nature off thinges wherunto the Ministers are likened and are for the moste part vsed by the holy gost himselfe I preuented that obiection wherunto the S. saithe nothing But if they proue nothing because they were similitudes then his answers to ouerthrowe them being bare similitudes and in thinges wherein they be compared moste vnlike are insufficient The rest off the second section off this diuision which is almoste a whole syde ys perteining to the question off Residence and off hauing twoo benefices Vnto thes argumentes which I vsed as hovve they should knovv his voice vvhen they can not heare yt acknovvledge him vvhen they can not knovv him follovve him vvhen they can not see him goe before or hovve he should heale their diseases vvhen he can not possibly knovve them he answereth not a worde That S. Paul in commaunding to appoint Elders throwghe euery citye ment euery companie off the faithfull rysing vnto a nombre cōuenient to meet in one assemblie yt is manifest by the place off Saint Luke where yt is saide that elders were ordeined thorowghout euery congregation Wherunto albeit the Ans could say nothing yet in pressing the word cytie he sheweth his good will. Vnto this yt may be added that the scripture vseth oftentimes for shortnes sake by a cytye to comprehend as well townes and villages as the great cities For where Saint Matthew hath citie or towne S. Luke hath citie onely and in diuerse places off the tenth of Saint Matth. 9 and 10. off Luke the precepts gyuen off the Apostels behauiour in the cities are necessarily vnderstanded off other places Likewise that both M. Beza and Erasmus reformed herein the ould translatour changing his translation off citie by citie as that which attained not fully to the meaninge off the Apostle into a more generall speach off tovvne by tovvne This shall yet better appeare in the 3. cha 8. Tract where it shal be shewed howe the institution off God is that a Bishop shoulde be not off a diocese such as ours or prouince but off a particular church Which treatise I would haue drawne hyther as vnto the proper place but that these places are so intangled with the question off the Dominion off the Bishop that I could not without too great trouble off the reader seuer yt Where he saithe that Saint Paul commaunding to appoint Ministers to certein places did not thereby forbid Titus to make Ministers hauing no certeine place he should vnderstand that S. Paul knewe he had to doo with one which had learned well that lesson off the lawe off God Thovv shalt onely doo that vvhich I cōmaund the. And it is shamefull iniurie doon to Titus once to thincke that he made kindes off Ministeries whereof he had no commission by the Apostle The rest is nothing but a manifest begging off that which is in question Where I alledged the councell off Calcedon that none shoulde be ordeined losely but vnto some speciall congregation the D. being at a bay and hauing no place to escape commeth vpon me vvith open mouth and will beare the reader in hand that I haue falsified the Councell and why forsooth becawse I haue left out these wordes Or in the place off Martyrs buriall or in monasterie I left them out in deed because we haue no vse off them Howbeit what syllable is there here which helpeth him or in all the canon which he hath set downe That the councell men● not that a man must off necessity be ordeined to a certein place but that he should haue some stay off liuing is directly contrary to the councells wordes which expresseth the first plainly and off the later speaketh nor a word The reasons vsed haue not so much as any sense and are drawen first from the filthie puddle off Popish diuinity that there be eccesiasticall ministeries withowt cure and places not neding any pastorall charge wheras if those monasteries c. were lawfull assemblies euery ecclesiasticall ministery was as necessary for them as for other Afterward they are drawne from a shameles corruption off the councels wordes by sworne ennemies off all good order in the church which to ouerthrowe a plaine meaning haue interpreted vvithovvt hauing some title withowt hauing some possession or liuing And that I haue set downe the true meaning off this councell may easely appeare by an other which forbad this wandring from citie to citie For Theodoret reprehending Eusebius bishop off Nicomedia for leauing his owne church to be bishop in an other alledgeth a canon wherby yt was ordeined that none ether bishop or elder should goe frō citie to citie Wherby appeareth they had all certein places Yea the D. Denis shall giue testymony vnto vs in this behalf whose wordes be vve haue appoincted to euery elder his proper parish and church yeard and ordeine that euery one kepe his ovvne right so that none enter into the boundes off an other parish but euery one contēt him self vvith his ovven and so gouerne the church cōmitted vnto him that he may giue account c. But that this shameful facing off the D. may be manifest I will set downe Caluins iudgement off this canon wherby shall better appeare who hath vsed most faith herein he or I. Speaking against the Popish making off ministers he saith But it vvas ordeined in the councell off Calcedon that there should be no absolute ordeining off ministers that is to say onles there vvere a place assigned vvhere the ordeined might exercise his charge Here is the same sense and exposition off the councell which I haue followed as full in euery point now let vs heare owt off what schoole the D. exposition commeth He addeth a litle after But our Romish maisters vvhich thincke nothing to be cared for but the belly fyrst interprete a title a sufficient reuenue vvherby he may be able to liue vvhether left off his freindes or by some benefice Therfore ordeining a priest or Deacon if he able to liue they giue him the degree not regarding vvhere he should exercise his ministery But vvho vvill euer admit that the litle vvhich the councell requireth is a yerely reuenue to mainteine himselfe vvith And after shewing other fraudes wherby they haue deluded other councells which cōfirmed this he addeth is yt not alvvaies absurd to ordein an elder to vvhom there is no place appointed wherby appeareth not onely Calu. iudgement off this question but how impudent a corruption off the councell he estemeth this which the D. so greatly alloweth The councell off Vrbane owght to make the D. blush and the corruptions which he to so small pourpose chargeth his booke with cause it to speake so lowde that the very deafe eares owght to heare For this diuinity off the later popery which he mainteineth being condemned off the former hath therby a brand of corruptiō wherby it may be knowen Consydering that popery geue still from euill to
he hath off one vvhen that one is able to mainteine him and his familie honestly he answereth not yet was it necessary to be answered considering that therby the peinting of that Zeale vnder pretence whereoff they spred their nettes ouer so many churches is washed away Where he accuseth me whotly other of deceiuing or being deceiued in that the Councell off Nice is put withowt the addition off Second wherby yt might be seuered from the purer Councell off Nice I can not precisely say whether the leauing owt off Second were my fault or the fault off some other but that I meant to deceiue none there be which can witnes by that that in the second edition howsoeuer yt was omitted I gaue a note wherby that should be corrected His reasō wherwith he would proue that I ment to abuse the reader for that I set it before Damasus is to friuolous considering that that conterfeict Damasus mentioned in the first Tome off councels was not before this second Councell and yt is not vnwonted to put the iudgemēt off a councell before that off a particular person As for the corruption off the Councell I haue shewed how that maketh more against the D. then if the testimonie had been fetched from the first Councell And where he saith the Councell ment that one should not haue permitted vnto him moe great cyties then one yt is a shameles corruption off the minde off the Councell Considering that the drift theroff is that one should not haue more to liue one then is needfull to mainteine him self competently and therfore is cōtent as it were to wincke at those which are placed in poore churches not able to mainteine their Pastor albeit it inclineth rather to this that he should supply that which is wanting by some honest occupation That he addeth that Gratian him self doth so expound it all men vnderstand how vnsauourly yt is spoken As yf it were any meruaile that Gratian so expounded yt which is knowen to be an open corrupter off the Councels and manifestly in this point off hauing many benefices not onely in this councell but in that off Calcedon For where the Councell decreed that no man might be ordeined in tvvo cyties he doth impudently dally with it saying he may be notvvithstanding Archebishop of one cytie and bishop of an other prouided that he enioy the one as intituled to yt and the other by vvay off commendation Which is but a toy to mock an ape As if a man should say that yt were not lawfull to haue two wiues at ones but yet he might haue two weomen one vnder the title off a wife an other of a lem̄end This interpretation off the Councell is yet made worse by the D. for he addeth that a Pastor may not be ordeined in moe great cities then one as thoug the Councell would permit one to be ouer diuers small cyties The proofe browght by the Councell that euery one ovvght to tary in that vocation vvherin he is called is fit The reason against yt that the Apostle speaketh off the kinde off vocation and not off the place is fonde as thowgh yt were not a mannes calling to doo that he hath to doo in one certein place or as thowgh yf the soldier or embassadour commaunded to serue in one place serue in an other he offended not against this rule off the Apostle Where fault is found that I set downe councels in the plurall numbre alledging but one he dealeth very streightly which will not suffer me to speake as other doo but that there may be councels let him learne that the same was decreed in the councell off Toledo Wherunto I ioyne Maister Hopers iudgement which saith that no man off vvhat giftes soeuer may haue tvvo liuinges and therfore he is not so much a shepherd which hath many flockes as the D. saith as a theef seing not able to doo the office of a Pastor towardes them he pilleth them Towching Damasus that his pourpose was nothing les then to condemne idle bishops him selfe idlest off all shal be seen in an other place when yt shall appeare that he had no good meaning in thes wordes Notwithstanding the comparison which likeneth the Pastors that put ouer their charge vnto harlots that gyue their children to other to nourse that they may sooner gyue them selues to lust being apt I tooke as a good stone set in an euill place In the next diu the first part that it is better that one should haue diuers flockes then any be vntawght is answered in that yt is both better that one church be sufficiently fed then all insufficiently and it is alledged before and after how the want off preachers is in part becawse they are not sought after in part because they are driuē owt which were placed The other part is also answered All the Answer witnesses browght in to proue that Denis the Monkish pope fyrst deuided parishes and Dioceses are suspected Polidore whom he hath chosen to speake in the name off the rest doth as the D. hym selfe hath doon falsifie the wordes off the Monke Considering that he saith not that he appointed dioceses but parishes and churche yardes onely making no mention off dioceses Wherupon the Canonistes them selues say that boundes off bishoprickes were deuided long before Both which opinions shall appeare more at large to be false where I shall shewe God willing by what practises the bishoppes stretched owt their armes so far Afterward the man in going abowt to shew mine proclaimeth his owne ignorance For where he saith ther was no limitation off place in the Apostles tyme he is greatly deceyned For beside that there is almoste in euery story before the Apostles often mention off prouinces wherinto the gouernementes were deuided Cicero maketh mention off the diuision off prouinces into dioceses The Romans likewise before the Apostles had their Curias the same with the greeke word wherof our word parish is taken Also towching the very word parish by that Eusebius reciteth owt off Apolonius a Senator off Rome who liued about the yeare off our Lord 180. of Montanus vvhich could not be receiued not so much as of his ovvne parish vvhence he vvas yt appeareth that it was both in vse and in the same signification that we take yt long before Denis off whom the D. would father this diuision off Parishes was bishop So yt is manifest thes diuisions were before the Monkes tyme yea before the Apostles time And where he saith all men may know that limitation off Parishes and dioceses could not be made but off men in authoritie and theruppon concludeth that it could not be made by the Apostles yt is very true towching the precise limitacion but how is he so blinded that he can not also therby see that yt is an idle dreame that he so greatly stryueth for that Denis limited dioceses parishes c considering that the Denis he supposeth lyuing
but vpon gainsaying And in that Boniface which wrote vnto Zachary had appointed those three bishops in small parishes and townes all vnderstand that yt was no new thing then to haue bishops in such places But because he closethe his eyes and will not see thinges set before him at leaste let him grope them The false Damasus and verie Antichriste writing of this matter inueiethe vehemently againste the appointinge off Bishops in villages which he calleth countrey bishops And yt appeareth plainly in that Epistle that they had the selfe same autoritie in all thinges which citie Bishops had There he saith also that yt was forbidden that there shoulde be any bishop ether in small cytie or in village or Castell leste the name and autoritie of a bishop should waxe vile And therfore commaundeth that those bishops off villages being disgraded off their Bishoprickes shoulde be throwne downe to the order off preisthoode Heere the D. maie vnderstande that euen in the time off Antichriste this order off euerie churche hauing her bishop was not so abolished but that there were remnantes off it in diuers places and some which mainteined the libertie wherin God had sed them againste that owtrage off Satan who becawse he woulde make off bishops yong Princes and saw that euerie parishe was not hable to mainteine that pompe wente abowte with robberie off the reste to lifte vp the heade off one Heroff yt may be seene what cawse the D. hathe to charge me with the falsifiyng of the Popes wordes and how his habilite to defende the Popes decree doothe not answer his desire As for the reasons I browght to proue that the placing● off bishops in villages and small cyties coulde no more bringe them in contempte then the shininge of the sonne or falling off the raine in villages as vvell as in cyties breedeth contempte off those benefites or the name or autoritie of father gyuen to poore men as vvell as riche maketh that ordinance off God nothing set by he answereth not a worde Where I further alledged the foresight and wisdome of God which shoulde receiue a greate wound if in instituting for euery churche a Bishop he shoulde not haue foreseen this inconuenience which the Ans vppon the Popes autoritie meinteineth he askethe when and where I haue I truste shewed him now bothe althowghe he if he had ether vnderstoode or remembred what he wrote before twise or thrise when with Ierome he propoundeth vnto vs that Bishop and elder were all one by Gods worde he should not haue fallē into this extreme boldenes of denying euery thing which is enemie vnto his vnaduised assertions For yf yt be the institution off God that euerie churche shoulde haue a teaching elder and that elder according to Ieromes saying alowed off him were a bishop yt muste needes folowe that to haue a bishop in euerie churche ys the institution of god And because the D. boweth so casely vnder the autoritie of men that he estemeth it the beste proofe let him vnderstande that this was the iudgemēt off twoo of the moste famous mē which our lande browght forth thes manie yeares And the same also executed for the testimonie off the truth off god wheroff one of them amongest other thinges suffred also for this cause nowe in hande a The sixte Article which M. Barnes was condemned for is this I vvill neuer belieue nor can neuer belieue that one man maie by the lavve off God be bishop off tvvoo or three cyties yea off an vvhole contrey for that yt is contrary to the doctrine of S. Paul vvhich vvriting vnto Titus commaundeth that he should ordeine a bishop in euery tovvne prouing that by the worde elder the Apostell meaneth a bishop M. Hooper shewing that one man may not haue two lyuinges addeth but this is clavv me and I vvill clavv the. If the bishops permitted not their priestes to haue 2. benefices it may fortune the priestes vvould likevvise say the bishop should be bishop but of one citie And in deed so it should be and till magistrates bring thē to that point it shal he as possible to heare a bishop vvade godly and symply thorovvgh the scripture in all case off religiō as to driue a camell thorovvgh the eie of a nedle A great pitie it is to see hovv far the office off a bishop is degenerated from the originall in the scripture It vvas not so in the beginning vvhen bishops vvere at the best as the Epistle to Tite testifieth that vvilled him to ordeine in euerie citie of Crete a bishop And in case there vvere such loue in them novv as vvas then tovvardes the people they vvould say them selues there vvere more to doo for the best off them in one cytie then he could doo They knovv the primitiue church had no such bishops vntill the time off Siluester the first c. Off thes thinges partly and partly of that which shall be hereafter God willing spoken I leaue yt to be esteemed off the indifferente reader with how small ether knowledge or conscience the D. hathe affirmed that yt can nether be shewed by scripture nor confirmed by anie ecclesiasticall writer or practise off the primitiue churche that ether euery churche shoulde haue her bishop or that there should be bishops in villages and small Cyties Thother off the two questions remaineth whether yt can be shewed by scripture and by examples off the primatiue churche ▪ that there were in one churche moe bishops then one which we might in parte haue bene eased off if the answ hauing fallen owte with the trwth were not likewise fallē owte with him selfe For he approuing off the testimonie off Ierome which affirmeth elders and Bishops all one and that the elders off a churche chose one amōgeste them which onely kepte the name of bishop dothe withall necessarily affirme that before the time that this ordinance was established there were diuers bishops in one church And in saying the word bishop is not commenly vsed but for him that in degree is aboue the rest he at vnawares confesseth that there were diuers bishops in some churches althowgh not commenly But becawse he hath a facultie in denying and affirming withowte shewing any reason and that his worde is no bonde to tie him with all when yt maketh againste him some thinge also muste be spoken towching this matter And seing I haue shewed that he is by S. Paules determination a Bishop which is ap●e to teache and to exhorte to conuince false doctrine and reproue corrupte maners and that the Ans can not denie but one suche alwaies is not sufficiente for some churches especially where the commoditie of assemblies is so good that euery daie the worde off good ys to be preached yt can not be denied but that there bothe maie and owght to be moe bishops in a churche muche more in a cytie then one And that this was the institution off God it appearethe by the practise of the churches in