14. Examined and retorted upon him His charge of Externall Schsme in separating in acts of Worship fortified by that passage Heb. 10 25 Examined page 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42. The doubters argument from 1 Cor. 12 v. 31. that wee ought to seeke the best most edifying gifts advantageously for himself but fraudulently proposd by the Informer Considerations to clear and enforce this Argument The Informers answers examined at large page 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 42 His Argument for adhering to Conformists taken from the reciprocall tye betwixt a Minister and people Ezek. 33 8. Heb. 13 17. Mal. 2 7. 1 Thess. 5 11 12. As also from Mr Durham on the revelation page 105 106. examined at large page 53 54 55 56 57 58 59. the premised texts improâ—…en against Conformists plea from this supposed tye and relation ibid. Chap. 3 page 58. The doubters argument from Curats not entering by a call from the people and that passage Acts 14 23. cleared and emproven page 59 60 61 62 63. The Informers first answer that several whom we refused to own entered by this call ibid. his exception upon the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 examined his first answer touching the use of the word to expresse the action of onesingle person proved from Acts 10 41. examined the use of the word cleared from parallels criticks and Interpreters page 64 65 66. His second Answer that Greek writers use this Word to signifie ordination without suffrages and that this was the action of Paul and Barnabas examined The granting that this was the action of Paul and Barnabas distinct from the Churches suffrage will not help the Informer Page 67 68 69. He walks crosse to interpreters in this answer page 70 71 72. His third answer that wee will thus give advantage to independants for popular election of Ministers examined wherein the difference betwixt the independents and us in this point is cleared from the Judgement and principles of Presbyterian writers page 73 74 75 76 77. His last answer is that if wee disown Conformists for want of this call we null the Ministry of the Christian world for above a thousand years upward and the Ministry of this Church to the year 1649. examined even the later Antiquity clear for this call by the testimony of Marcus Antonius de Dominis the Council of Paris anno 559 the examples of Eradius Ambrose c. Yea of Bishop Bilsone page 78 79 80 81. That patronages are abjured in the Covenant cleared against the Informer and his exception anâ—… our Churches perjury because of the use of patronages after the Covenant repelled In what sense the prelatick ordination is pleaded by us in disowning conformists of the term Curat The Informer honestly grants that it signifyes one who serves the cure though not the Minister of the place but the substitute of another page 82 83 84 85. His answer anent the charge of Perjury and reasoning anent the lawfulnesse of disowning Ministers because of Scandals who are not censured examined His reasoning found frivolous and retorted upon him page 86 87 88. his great argument from Math. 23. Anent the supposed command of hearing the Scribes and Pharisees examined Several circumstances of the sacred text offered to discover how very difficult it is to prove that there is a command of hearing them as Church officers The consequence from hearing of them though granted to the hearing of them denyed upon five grounds As also his reasoning from Simeon Anna Joseph and Mary their attending the Temple-Worship examined page 89 90 91 92 93. Mr Durham on Revel 3. pleads nothing for the Informer in this point page 94 95 96. His reasons to prove there is a command of hearing Matth. 23. as above described examined and repelled page â—…7 several answers of the Informer to our charge of intrusion and the queries that he propones thereupon as also his retorsion upon this charge examined and found vain and frivolous page 98 99 100 101 102. His answers to the doubters Argument anent the abjuration of Episcopall Ministers in the Covenant as dependent upon the hierarchy confuted His retorsion that wee were bound upon this ground to disown all the Ministers at the taking of the Covenant who had been ordained by Prelats unlesse they renounced their ordination ane empty knack reflecting on the reformed Churches justifying the popes plea against them page 103 104 105. Chap. 4 page 105 The Informers answer to the doubters Argument anent separation from a corrupt Church In what respects and how far this separation is owned His answer anent the not separating from the Churches of Corinth and Galatia and the asian Churches Rev. 2 3. Though tainted with most grosse corruptions c examined The discrepancy of our case from theirs in this point cleard in some particulars and our cause fortified from Scripture directions to these Churches page 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113. The impertinency of these instances to our case cleared from hence several wayes ibid. The Informers answer to these Scriptures 2 Cor. 6 14 15 16. 1 Cor. 5 11 2. Thess. 3 6. Rev. 1â—… 3. Examined and found contradictory to his concession anent a necessary separation from a corrupt Church when highly corrupted page 114 115 116 117. His answer to the retorted charge of Schisme upon Conformists for seperating from this Church examined and found naught He therein cuts the sinnewes of his arguing against us page 118 119 120. His answer and reasoning concerning lecturing examined God never appointed a dumb reading the Levites gave the sense of the Law c. the exceptions anent the disuse of our first Method of lecturing and the want of Circumcision and the passover for a considerable time in the Jewish Church help him not in this point page 121 122 123 124 125. Chap 5. page 126. The Informers answer and reasoning upon the point of scandal and offence in reference to the owning of Conformists considered The Informers groundlesse supposition anent the duty of hearing Conformists Our Orthodox sense of Rom 14. and 1 Cor. 8. in the point of Scandal cleard at large from the exposition of Chrysostome on the first text and Pareus on the second page 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133. The Informer upon supposition that a practice is lawfull and offence flowes from it holds that the command of the powers will loose the giver of offence from guilt and remove this liberty of the practice and the nature of offence how absurdly cleared in fyve points page 134 135 136 138. He is herein contradicted by Amesius The instances of the Brazen serpent and Gideons ephod improven against him ibid. His absurd glosse upon Acts 15 28 that the things before indifferent were made necessary by the meere determination of the Concil largely repelled Calvin classes him with the Papists herein His manifold inconsistencies observed and absurd exposition of scandalum acccptum and datum which
gave his Disciples charge that they should not affect superiority one over another or princely power over Gods heritagâ—… and puts them to prove that the office of the Ministry may in ordination be divided or that there are more orders of the Ministry then one which our Informer still begs a supposition of viz. Bishop or Presbyter or more officers in the Church then Elders and Deacons appointed by Christ or his Apostles by their apostolick authority That the Presbyter in whom are required the same qualifications to whom is to be yeelded the same obedience subjection andrespect who recives the same ordination and is charged with the same duty and invested with the same power of feeding and governing the Church of God with the Bishop and none other is an order distinct from and subject to the Bishop to be ruled by him and not to exercise his office but by the Bishops licence and that the Presbyter must swear obedience to the Bishop as his ordinary Which are the grand postulata and topicks of all this mans reasoning in point of prelacy The autitheses of which tenets we see Mr Crofton most evidently maintaines as the sense of the Covenant in point of episcopacy he further describes pag 80. and 81. the prelacy covenanted against and anent which he challengeth these Masters proof of a jus divinum to be such wherein one Minister or Bishop doth stand charged with all the congregatious and pastors of a Countie or many Counties making one diâ—…cess who is by office bound to a pastoral correction and government of them that these Bishops may be subject to one Metropolitan Church and Archbishop to whom they shall swear obedience adding that if the Word of God conclude such superiority over the Church in one Kingdom it will conclude a Catholick superiority over the universall Church and advance the Pope as warrantably above the Archbishops as the Archbishops are above the Bishops and the Bishops above the Presbyters these not being differences of kind but degree Adding further that no more is pleaded for Prelats divine or Apostolick right in the Church of England but what is pleaded by Bellarmine the Council of Trent for she Papacie Now from what is said I darre referre it is this Informer himself whither Mr Crofton doth not clearly disowne all the essentialls of our present prelacy and hold it to be abjured in the Covenant the office of our present Bishops and Arch-Bishops being incontravertibly such as he here describes And whither Mr Crofton holds not our prelacy arch-prelacy and metropolitan primacy to stand upon the same basis with the papacy and to be equally with it excentrick to the Scriptures and that he esteems consequently the Bishops and Arch-Bishops which I hope he will not deny to be abjurd in the Covenant to depend as such upon the Pope as a part of his hierarchy Next pag. 81 he sayes that it is not the first sort of episcopall government formerly described wherein all Ministers are invested with equal power and auhority or dignity are all of the same order and governe by common counsel but the specificall prelacy last described which presumes it self to be a Hierarchie So that with Mr Crofton our present prelacie falls within the denomination of the Hierarchy abjured in the solemne league and of the Popes wicked Hierarchie abjured in the nationall Covenant for he tells us in the preceeding page that none can deny that a quantenus ad omne c. He tells them moreover in that same pag. that had he lived in the Churches of Ephesus Antioch Phillippi Creet or the seven Churches of Asia invested with the same ministeriall authority which he then enjoyned he might have stood up a Peer to any Bishops therein so that he esteemed no Bishop there but Presbyters Besides pag. 82. he cites severall writers to prove that the authority and distinction of Episcopall and Archiepiscopall chaires metropolitan primacies owe their institution to the Church of Rome or politick constitutions of Princes He tells us pag. 84. out of Cartwright and Whittaker that the Church in respect of Christ its head not his vicar or superiority of single prelats is a monarchy in respect of the ancients and pastors that governe in common all the Presbytrie with like authority among themselves not a superiority over them it is an Aristocracie and in respect the people are not excluded but have their interest it is a Democracy The inserted parentheses are Mr Croftons and let any judge whither he assert not with these authors a Presbyterian frame of government opposit to diocesian Bishops and Arch-Bishops In his Analepsis in answer to Dr Gauden pag. 2. he charges him as before the Oxford men with an uncertain proposall of the object and the ratio formalis of the Covenant obligation as to prelacy under the general terme of Episcopacie therein also lasâ—…ing our Informer for the same laxness and ambiguity telling them that by good demonstration Bishop and Presbyter have been asserted to be synonimous titles of Church officers and are found to have been so used in the primitive times of the Church and of the Fathers adding that the government of the Church by its Ministers in their severall assemblies with a Moderator Ordinis causa to dispose and regulat what belongs to order is the primitive episcopacie which he grants to the Doctor that the Covenant will not strike against then pag. 3. and 4. he describes the Episcopacy which the Covenant strikes against And pag. 5. summeth it up thus that the Covenant cannot be accomplisht by the removal of Prelats pride c. Whilst the Preeminence prerogative Paternal power and juridicall authority assumed by them as distinct from and above all other Ministers of the gospel as the only immediat successors of the Apostles So our Informer makes them c. are continued What will this Oedipus answer to Croftons assertion Have not our Prelats this preeminence above Presbyters as a distinct order from them and have they not a juridicall authority over them by our law and practise and his pleading too doth not Mr Crofton in terminis assert that the Covenant obligation can never be satisfied untill such be removed are they no more in Church judicatores but Moderators and Chairemen set up Ordinis causa to order the actions of the meeting doth not our law give them a negative voice in the meeting and alloweth Presbyters only to give them advice if their Lordships do judge them prudent and loyall Again wheras the Dr pag. 18. did conclude that the Hierarchy being dead must rise in another qualitie Mr Crofton tells him pag. 6. That if it arise according to the Covenant it must be in the establishment of Congregational Classical Provincial and National Assemblies or Synods of Church officers Communi consilio Presbyterorum this phrase of Jerome he frequentlie useth to debate and determine the affaires of the Church and Exercise all acts of discipline and Ecclesiastick power
hands thus Mr Gillesp. Misc. quest page 9. Who also cleares this from Criticks and Interpreters asserting this sense of the word He shews that where Iulius Pollux hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lib. 2. cap. 4. Gualther and Wolf Sâ—…berus render it manuum extensio and that Budaeus interprets the word plebiscitum suffragium H. Stephanus manum porrigo Because he saith they did in giving votes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thence the word came to be used for scisco decerno â—…reo Iustin. Martyr Quest. Resp. ad orthod Resp. ad quest 14. distinguishes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as of a different signification Arrias Montanus in his lexicon doth interpret this word manum elevare eligere creare Magistratum per suffragia Again 2. The manner of election among the grecians clears this metaphore signification of the word Demosth. Cicero and others make this appear they had a phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnium suffragijs obtinet and another phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no man gives a contrary vote The approving votes in chusing Grecian Magistrats in the theatre was by holding up or stretching forth of hands See page 10. 11. 12. Where this is learndly and at large made good 3. This is also made good from the ordinary method wherin the scriptures do express the setting apart of Church officers to their sacred functions which is by the Churches election and consent see 1 Cor. 16. 3. 2 Cor. 8. 19. 1 Tim. 3. 7. Acts 1. 23 26. and 13. 3. and 15. 22. And since the holy ghost doth here intend by Luke to express the manner of the establishment of Elders it is utteâ—…ly improbable that the churches suffrage should be here omitted 4. Protestant writers draw the Churches suffrage in election of Ministers from this word Magd. Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 6. Zanch. in 4. precept So Beza Bullinger decad 5. Serm. 4. Iunius contrav 5. lib. cap. 7. Gerard. Tom. 6. pag. 95. Danaeus 1 Tim. 5. Wallaeus in his treatise quibusnam competit vocatio pastorum Cartwright against the Rhemists objecting with our Informer That in scripture this word signifies imposition of hands answereth That its absurd to imagine that the holy Ghost by Luke speaking with the tongues of men and to their understanding should use a word in that signification in which it was never used before his time in any writter holy or profane For how could he be understood saith he if using the note and name he had fled from the signification whereto they used it therefore unless he purposed to write what none could understand or read it must needs be that as he wrote so he meant election by voices Then he proves this from Oecumenius the greek scholiast from the Greek Jgnatius and tells us there were proper words to signify the laying on of hands had the holy ghost intended this and that its absurd to thinke that Luke who straitneth himself to keep the words of the seventie Interpreters when he could have uttered things in better terms then they did should here forsake the phrase wherewith they noted the laying on of hands being most proper and natural to signify the same Next As for what he objects from Acts 10. 41. had he been sincere or diligent in this debate he might have found that the above mentioned learned Presbyterian writer with others doth here tell him first that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used there is not the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but is as it were a preventing of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by a prior designation 2. That its atribute to God metaphoricâ—… or improperly shewing that in the council of God the Apostles were in a manner elected by voices in the trinity which he clears by that parallel Gen. 1. Let us make man Adding that this hinders no more the proper signification of the word when applyed to men then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ascribed to God can prove that there 's no change in men when they repent because there is none in God The Informers 2d answer is That Greek wri ters do ordinarly use this word to signify ordaining a person to a charge without voices and suffrages And that here it s so to be understood he proves from this that Paul and Barnabas are said to do this work exprest by this Greek word and not the people That we will not say that Paul and Barnabas elected Ministers to these Churches which were to yeeld the question That therefore our translation reads it they that is Paul and â—…arnabas ordained them elders c. they pray'd and commended them to the Lord So that it was not the action of the people but of Paul and Barnabas Ans. All this is nothing but his petio principii and what is answered already 1. That this word signifies ordinarly the ordaining of a Person to a charge without votes and suffrages is most false and contrary to the sense of the word in Greek authors contrary to the Scripture acceptation of the word to sound divines as we have heard And to this may be here added which is also the observation of the above mentioned learn'd writters that we find extraordinary Officers in the Apostles times not put into their functions without the Churches consent hence we may conclude that far less ought there to be an intrusion of ordinary Ministers without their consent Paul Silas were chosen of the whole Church to their extraordinary delegation Acts. 15. 22. Pauls company were chosen by the Church 2 Cor. 18. 19. The Commissioners of Corinth were approved by the Church 1 Cor 16. 3. Matthias an Apostle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simul suffragiis electus est as Arrias Montanus turn's it was together chosen by suffrages viz. of the 120 Disciples 2. How prove's he that Paul and and Barnabas did this work exprest by this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we told him that the Syriack version understands it of the Disciples Mr Gillespy lococitato proves that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here to be rendred ipsis not illis shewing that Pasor in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 renders Acts 14. 23. quumque ipsis per suffragia creassent presbyteros so saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he proves because the Greeks use the one word sometimes for the other as he clears from Scripture parallels So he thus senseth the verse and context the Churches of Lystra Iconium and Antioch after chusing of Elders who were also solemnly set apart with prayer and fasting were willing to let Paul and Barnabas go from them to the planting and watering of other Churches and commended them to God to open to them an effectuâ—…ll door Eph. 6 18 19. or for their saftie and preservation Luk. 23. 46. Again what inconsistency with our sense of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will it be if all that is mentioned in the 23. verse
and others owned as such a tradition lib 1. de pecc mer. Basil names four Apostolick traditions signeing with the cross praying to the east anointeing with oyle praying in the standing postur from Easter to whitsuntyd See the Appendix to jus divinum minise Evan prop. 2. The informer and his fellowes make a great bustle anent the condemneing of Aerius for holding that Bishops and presbyters are all one But Beza could have informed him de grad 346. that Epiphanius Haeres 75 imputs to him as great heresies these Tenets 1. That he held it unlawfull to offer and pray for the dead 2. That he held that Saincts departed were not to be invocat 3. That there were not fixed fast dayes to be keept 4. That the jewish pascal was not to be observed because ourpassover is already offered Now if our Informer condemne him for these also we weed care the lesse for his condemning him in the point of prelacy 3. It is certain that the account of the first times immediatly after the Apostles is as to mater of fact very dark uncertain consequently a very slippery rule Hegesi pus apud Euseb lib 3. Cap 28. tells us that immediatly after the Apostolick age was gone tunc impii erroris conspiratio per seductionem eorum qui alienam doctrinam trad ant initium caepit Then the conspiracy of wicked error but the seducings of those who delivered another doctrine took its begining Eusebius himself the prime writer from whom in a manner is the wholl of all that is delivered anent Church Government and Bishops and who presents these fragmens of writers out of which our episcopal men gaâ—…her up their proofes in the proem of his History acknowledges that he is in that worke entered into a dark desert therein he hath no footsteps of any goeing before him but only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Some litle occasions or some pitty narations which every one in their own time hath left and delivered let any read haumer ane Inglish Bishop his translation of Eusebius wherein this will be found very clear Scalliger prolegom in Chron. Euseb. Saith Intervallum illud ab ultimo capite actorum c. the nterval from he last chotter of the Acts of the Apostles until the midst of the reigne of Trajan in which tract Quadratus and a Ignatius flourished let our informer observe this as to Ignatius may be truly called with varrâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or obscur wherin nothinthat is certan hath come to our hand concerning the affairs of Christians except some very few things which the enemies of godlines carches up by the way such as Suetonius Cornelius Tacitus Plenius Cecilianus which gap that Eusebius might fill up he drew some things without discretion and choise out of the upotiposes or exemples of I know not what Clement for he is not that learned Clement who wrote the Stromataâ—…â—…nd out of the fyve books of hegesippus a writer no better Tilen himself a great pleader for the Episcopal cause yet tells us Contr 3 l. 2 c. 2 Not. 39. and c. 3. Note 6 That the history of these first times hath great blacks and gapes which the Spurius Clements and other writers of the same stamp filled up with petty fables drawen from their own braine That from the end of the acts of the Apostles until Traian's times thereis almost nothing extant which is certain hence he saith occasion was taken by men of bad dispositions to make hold to faine anything whom even the Apostles times wanted not Not to insist upon the many things written and observed of Eusebius which may invalidat the credit of his history and his many gross errors therein and in other poynts observed by Scalliger and others How fabulous is that history of Christes Epistle to Agbarus rejected even by pope Gelasius in a Councel of Seventy Bishops at room That which Philo the jew wrote of the Essae Ans a Sect among the jewes Eusebius affirms that he wrot it of Christian mmks which Scalliger shewes to be false out of Philo himself in elencho tribaeresii He proves peters crucifixion at Rome by a tomb proofe In the computation of times Scalliger observes his gross errors Nay which is more considerable he discovers gross ignorance of Scripture in saying that the Cephas reprehended by Paul was not the Apostle peter but another of the number of the Seventy disciples Besyds many things in his personall cariage and qualities which may weaken the Credit of his History as his presideing in the councel of Tyre against Athanasius and standing upon the Arrians side Scalliger in his Thesaurus temporum Animad p 268 Setts down the testimonies of the Ancients concerning his errors Arrianisme wherein some affirme that he died When he wrote the history he was ane Arian Moreover Admitt his Testimony were abeve all exception yet that his history hath been corrupted by some ignorant impostor is demonstrated from this by Didocl cap. 4. p. 119 that he maks mention of Sozomen who was born ane hundred years therafter Lastly As to the Catalogues of Bishopes which our Informer and his masters befor him exhibit to us from the Apostolick times he might have found them aboundantly invalidat by many of the learned whose judgement and Testimonys are collected by Didocl cap 4 p. 121 122 123 124 c. Which we may well challeng this man to answer Therefore we shall dismiss it with these observes 1. That Tertullian Irenaeus and others who make use of this Argument of Succession against hereticks designe only to shew a derivation of true doctrine from the Apostles against them and that the Church had the Traduoes Apostolici Seminis a derivation of the Apostles Doctrine but never meaned it of a Succession of men of the same office every way Tertullian saith Arise o truth and expone they Scriptures c. Irenâ—…us in his time speaking of this Succession from the Apostles pressing adherence to the truth which they delivered makes mention of Presbyters opportet adhaerere iis c We must adhere to them who keeps the Apostles doctrine and with the order of presbitery mentain the word And again therefore we must obey these presbiters who are in the Church who have their Succession from the Apostles as we have showen Then he adds qui cum Episcopatus Successione charisma veritatis certum Secundum placitum patris acceperunt That is who with the Succession of Episcopacy have receaved from the father the sure gift of truth thus he l. 4. c. 44. And because this Informer singes their old song who before him will still Shuffle in Bishops when the Ancients speak of Presbyters Let him remarke what he sayes lib 3. cap. 2. Speaking of the contumacy of the adversaries of truth quum autem ad eam iterim traditionem quae est ab Apostolis quae per Successiones presbyterorum in Ecclesiis custoditur provocamus eos c But when wee apeall them again to that
solemnlie consecrat by their fellowes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to their new episcopall order In a word we heard from Cassander that the Canonists and Theologues who dispute this Question doe both accord that as to a jus divinum or divine right there is no difference betwixt Bishop and Presbyter either in order or degree And so though it were granted which yet the Informer himself dare not positively assert that the Fathers tossed this question it will nothing help him nor prejudge Mr Durhams quotation which speaks of a jus divinum As for what he adds That the Fathers cited by Medina might hold the same notion Let him hear how Bellarmin no friend to Presbyterian Government represents his assertion de Cler. Cap 15. Michael Medina lib. 1. De sacrorum hominum origine eminentia Cap. 5. Affirmat sanctum Hieronimum idem omnino cum Aerianis sensisse neque solum Hieronimum in ea haeresi fuisse sed etiam Ambrosium Sedulium Primasium Chrysostomum Theodoretum Oecumenium Theophylactum atque ita inquit Medina isti viri alioqui Sanctissimi Sacrarum Scripturarum consultissimi quorum tamen sententiam prius in Aerio deinde in Waldensibus postremo in Joanne Wickleffo damnavit ecclesia That is Michael Medina in the first book concerning the originall and eminencie of sacred men 5. Chap. Affirms that St Jerome was every way of the same judgment with the Aerians And that not only Jerome was in that Heresie But also Ambrose Sedulius Primasius Chrysostom Theodoret Oecomenius and Theophylact And thus saith Medina these men otherwayes most godly and most expert in the holie Scrptures whose judgment notwithstanding the Church condemned first in Aerius Next in the Waldeneses And lastly in Iohn Wickleff Let our Informer note here 1. That it is beyond debate with Bellarmin that with Medina at least all these Fathers were Aerians 2. That his holy Catholick Church of Rome is the grand condemner of this Heresie 3. That this is one of the Heresies of the old Waldenses these famous witnesses against Antichrist And of John Wickleff and such like eminent reformers Afterward he adds That in Jerome and these Greek Fathers that opinion was of old dissembled out of reverence to them But contrarily in the Hereticks alwayes condemned So we see the Presbyterian Principles are with him one of the Heresies of Protestants Peter Swav in the History of the Council of Trent pag. 664. edit Francfort relates That when the Authoritie of Ierom and Augustin was brought to prove episcopacie to be but ane Ecclesiastick constitution Michael Medina answered That it was no wonder that Jerom Augustin and others of the Fathers fell into that heresie not having throughly searched the matter that he maintained pro virili this to be their opinion Finallie to make these Fathers one with themselves whom this man enforceth in his next passages cited page 71 72. Anent the derivation of Episcopacie from the Apostles and higher to speak palpable contradictions we must say with Whittaker that they call the Apostles so because they did that upon the matter which Bishops then did And because their power quadam similitudine or by a certain similitude or likenesse as Junius expresseth it was like to that of these extraordinarie Church officers whom notwithstanding they could not succeed in the same office nor could these Fathers think so upon the grounds formerly mentioned Tilen in his Specul Antichr ortum aperiens Aphoris 88. Tells us that episcopos Presbyteros re nomine eosdem fuisse non Hieronimus solum in 1. Tim. 3. Sed etiam scriptura perspicue docet Tit. 1. Act. 20. Phil. 1. Proinde humani instituti sive positivi ut vocant juris est illa sub diversis nominibus munerum distinctio That Bishops and Presbyters were the same in name and thing or office Not only Jerome on 1. Tim. 3. But the Scripture also doth evidently teach Tit. 1. Act. 20. Phil. 1. And therefore that distinction of the offices under diverse names is of human institution as they call it or of positive right A fitt looking-glasse this had no doubt been to the same Tilen when he wrote his paraenesis and changed his note And likwise it is a fitt looking glasse for this Informer CHAP. XVI The harmonius consent of ancient Fathers Modern divines and confessions of Reformed Churches for Presbyterian Government in all its essentiall points of difference from Prelacie is exhibit IT is clear that Presbyterian Government the pure ancient and genuine Government of this Church in every essentiall ingredient of it as it stands in opposition to prelacie is approved by such a consent of antiquity and modern diuines that it would take up almost as much roome as this Informers pamphlet to reckon up their names That we may present them in 〈◊〉 compendious view take it thus 1. That jure divino there is no difference betwixt a Bishop and Presbyter hath a very large consent of antiquitie collected by many of the learned whose testimonies we may see in Bishop Jewel against Hardin edit Ann. 1570. p. 243. And Reynolds in the forementioned Epistle at large cited Petries Hist. part 3. p 469 470 471. Where there is exhibit a full consent both of the Greek and Latin Fathers for this point of truth The Doctor in his conference with Hart holds That the president chosen out at first to moderat is be whom afterwards the Fathers called Bishop and that the name Bishop common to all Ministers was by them thus appropriat to this president Next for modern writers the same Dr Reynolds tells us in the formentioned Epistle that those who have laboured about the reforming of the Church these 500 Years have taught that all Pastours be they intituled Bishops or Priests have equall authoritie and power by Gods word Citing the Waldenses in Aen. Silv. hift of Bohem. Chap. 35. Pich Hierarch Ecclesiast lib. 2. Cap 10. Marsil Patavin Defens pacis part 2. Cap. 15. Wickleff in Thom. Waldens Doct. Fil. Tom. 1. lib 2. Cap 60. and Tom 2. cap 7. And his Schollers Husse and the Hussits Aeneas Silvius Loccit Luther Advers falso nomin Scot Epise adversus Papat Rom. Calv. in Epist. ad Phil. Tit. 1. Erentius Apolog. Confess Wittenberg Cap. 21 Bulinger Decad. 5. Serm 3. Musculus Loc. Com Tit de Ministerio Verbi Then he adds Jewel Pilkington Dr. Humphrey in Campian Duraeum Jesuit Part. 2. Raâ—… 3. Whittak ad rationes Campian 6. Confut Durae lik 6. Mr Bradfoord Lambert Fox Act. Mon. Fulk Ansr. to the Rhemeflits To these may be added Cartwright against the Rhemists Bishop Bilson himself against Seminartes lib. 1. p 318. Bishop Morton in his Catholick Apologie Part. 1. Cap. 33. Erasmus upon 1 Tim. 4. To which add that in the Oâ—…cumenick Counâ—…les of Constance Basile it was concluded that Presbyters should have decisive suffrage in Councils as well as Bishops because that by the Law of God Bishops were not greater then
at the door and in the way and order of this Church That they are violently thrusting out and persecuring her faithfull Pastours that they perjuriously renounce a call from the people and ordination by the Presbyterie All which grounds he must either grant will supersede our obligation to owne conformists hic nunc according to our principles or quite his plea and pleading as to the disowning of Presbyterian Ministers in the exercise of their Ministry 8. He pleads in the close of the preceeding Dialogue that the covenant abjures Sel isme Now let us stand to this Decision the Informer will not be dissatisfyed if I shall borrow one of his topicks and shoot ane arrow from his own bow I would offer then to him this syllogisme That Schism which he pleads against is a Schism abjured in the Covenant but disowning Conformists in their present state circumstances refusing to be subject to them as the Ministers of this Church is not a schism abjur'd in the Covenant Ergo c. The assumption I prove thus If the disowning of Presbyterian Ministers in their present state and circumstances and withdrawing from them in the exercise of their Ministerial function and their Ministerial testimony against prelacy and for the Covenant be that schism which is abjurd therin then a refusing to be subject to Curats against whom they are testifying as the Covenant breakers and upholders of prelacy ad not owning them as the Ministers of this Church cannot be that scism Unless he will mak this scism such a Janus as will cast a maligne condemning aspect upon both the contending parties and bring adherers unto either of the two under this imputation But so it is that disowning of Presbyterian Ministers in the exercise of their Ministry is condemned in the Covenant as schism this we have already made appear it being a disowning of that establisht order and union of this Church which therin we do swear to maintain and a schismatical withdrawing from her faithfull Ambassadours and others contending for the ends of the Covenant to adhere unto whom and keep up an union wiâ—…h them herein the Covenant layes upon us an express obligation putting the imputation of schismatick division and detestable indifferency upon the contrary practice Ergo upon the whole it follows evidently that the owning of Conformists which he pleads for in this Dialogue viz. subjection unto and receiving ordinances from them as the Ministers of this Church and denying this to Presbyterian Ministers is abjurd in the Covenant as Schismatical CHAP. II. The Informers charge of internal and external Schisme put upon Non-conformists â—…f impeaching the Churches constitution and her practice in point of Worship for more than a 1000 Years examind His argument from Rom. 14. Heb. 10. 25. answered and retorted upon him His answer to the argument taken from the command of seeking the best gifts considered As also his argument from ancient canons from the Act of the Assembly 1647. from the reciprocal tye betwixt a Minister and his flock to fortify his charge of Schism repell'd HAving thus cleard our question and plea fortified our practice with these arguments We come now to examine the grounds on which this new Casuist imputes sinfull separation to us therein We acknowledge the evil of Schism upon these Texts mentioned by him which might have caused sad reflectings on himself and his party who are guilty of divisions and offences contrary to our received ordinances and the doctrine of this Church And so are lashed by that Scripture Rom. 16. 17. And who would have have us saying I am of this or that Rabbi or Prelat contrary to 1 Cor. 1 12. It 's they who have disownd a spirituall pure unity with this pure Church and are seeking a perjurious union in departing from God contrary to that precept Ephes. 4 3. And are so far from esteeming others in Lowliness of mind better then themselves as we are enjoynd Phil 2. 2. That their Rabbies trample on all Ministers and their underlings do most insolently persecute and despise faithfull Pastours for adhering to the Reformation authority and union of this Church against their innovations Schism is no doubt an evill which hath much infested the Church and our Church and the Scripture sufficiently discovering the evill thereof we need not Cyprian nor Jeroms elogies anent unity to persuaed it Only where he insinuats from that saying of Cyprian which he mentions Who asserts from 1 Cor. 13. that who are slain in their Schism their inexpiable sin is not purged by their blood and that they are not Martyrs that such is the case of the suffering people of God at this time we may discern the cruell venome and sting of this mans malice for all the sobriety which he pretends unto I shall only tell him that as its more then he will be ever able to prove that the Lords remnant are guilty of this sin and are assembling out of the Church when attending the Ministry of Christs faithfull Ambassadours in this Church so he and his fellows setting these murderers upon them in this duty will if they repent not be exposed to that vengeance which the cry of their souls under the altar who have been slain for this their Testimony doth plead for He would also do well to resolve this doubt upon Cyprians Testimony viz. Whether Cyprian did ever hold or if himself will dare to assert that the blood and sufferings of the best of martyrs did expiat their guilt As for Jeroms assertion that Schism and Heresy or some degree of it go together I think it is fitly applicable to himself and fellow Conformists who since their departing from the unity of this Church and her sworn Reformation have not only to justify their course vented gross errours in point of Oaths and otherwise but are now as every one sees posting fast to Rome in denying many and great points of our Protestant profession We accord to Augustines saying that separatists as such receive no life from the body the unquestionable godliness fellowship with the Father and the Son to which many Presbyterians are admitted and wherein they shine compared with the abominable prophanity of the whole of those almost that owne Curats will by this rule declare who are the Schismaticks and separatists from Christs body The comment of the Thorn which rents the liliâ—… Cant. 2. 2. Is very suteable to him and those of his way who have now of a long time rent the Lords faithfull flock wounded our Church and taken away her vail esteeming themselves Christians of the first magnitude so he esteems his most reverend Arch-Bishops and reverend under-fathers What pitifull preambles are these The Doubter alleadges that every separation is not schism This as we heard he acknowledges and that when communion with a Church cannot be held without sin separation is necessary wherein he yeelds all that we plead since we have proved that in this our case joyning to
their way and party is in many respects sinfull and since he Instances the protestants plea for separating from Rome on this ground knowes he not that the Papists tell us such stories anent union with the Church and that suffering without the Church is no Christian suffering to Iustifie their bloody persecutions which very well sutes his case And no doubt the protestants answer viz. That we are in Christs Church because owning his truth tho separat from their synâ—…gogue and that notwithstanding this pretence the blood of protestant Martyrs is in their skirts doth sute the case of Presbyterians in relation to their persecuters But the great charge followes viz. That we are guilty of as groundless and unreasonable separation as we shall read of in any age of the Church Bona verba How is this made good first saith he in casting off Christian love which is heart Schism 2. He chargeth with external Schism in separating in acts of Worship Now what if we recriminat in both these and retort this double charge upon himself Have they not disownd the Worship of Presbyterian ministers Professours and charged all to separat from them meerly for non-complyance with their perjured Prelats 2. Have they not for many years glutted themselves with their blood I may say sweemd in it upon the same very ground of forbearance as to prelatick complyance and endeavour by multiplyed lawes and Acts to root them out of the very nation Good Sir Pull this beam out of your own eye that you may see a litle clearer in this point But as to the first he sayes that we make difference in Iudgement as to lesser matters Church Government a ground of difference in affection as if they were no Christians who are not of our persuasion in these things putting thus lesser points into our creed and un unchurching and unsancting all who are not of our persuasion therin Ans. As to the first general charge I know none more guilty then themselves who are contending with fire and sword tanquam pro aris focis for these their lesser points and with unheard of rage seeking the ruine of all who dare not comply in Judgement and practice with them therein 2. I thinke Christian affection to their souls is best seen in opposing and testifying against their soul-destroying sins Thou shalt by any means rebuke thy neighbour and not suffer sin upon him is an old standing rule Levit. 19 17. And if they be even hated in so far as owning pernicious wayes it s no more then what David avowes Psal 139 21 22. do not I hate them that hate thee I hate them with a perfect hatred I account them my enemies I hate the work of them that turn aside it shall not cleave unto me 3. As we have not so learn'd Christ to call every thing lesser or small poâ—…nts which his latitudinarian party have the confidence to term thus so we know no point of truth reveald and commended to us in the word as the object of our faith and matter of our practice which should be keept out of our creed lest our saith become much shorter then the Scripture pattern And we acknowledge not the new patchment of mens Lawes which this man and his fellow-Conformists have annext to their creed and which can pro arbitrio make or unmake these his lesser points But he sayes that we unchurch and condemn all Churches in all ages who have ownd Bishops Liturgies festivals and othâ—…r ceremonies And if we make the removal of these things necessary to a Church there hath not been a a Church for above a 1000 yeares together Ans. To make the last part of this argument not to contradict the first he should have said that there has not been a Church without these things mentioned these 1600 years but the man seeing his first flight or Rodomontade too fierce he did well to clap his wings closser Upon a review of this page I find our Informer in this charge playes but the pityfull Camelion and versipellis for finding that this assertion of his that Christians of all ages since Christs time and in all places have own'd Bishops Liturgies Festival dayes and other ceremonies would have drawn upon him the heavy burthen and task of a proofe he lightens himself of this burthen by a prudent almost which in this point is very significant But his confining the liturgies Festivals and other ceremonies within the compass of the last thousand years sullied with all popish abominations appearing too simple inadvertency within the compass of two or three lines he secures it with a much above But lest this prove too broad reckoning he instances the second or third century from whence he sayes we beginne our reckoning as to Bishops festivals liturgies and other ceremonies But 1. why mends he the matter so inadvertently as to run in such a wide uncertainty as the the length of 200 yeares in that calculation which he imputes to us 2. I challenge him to shew what presbyterian writter did ever commence the original of liturgies and festivals with his blind c. of other ceremonies which will travell who knowes whither and include who knowes what from the third far less the second century I affirm that its more then he or any for him can prove that the Church hath had Bishops liturgies and festivals since Christ. Our writters have abundantly proved the contrary and we challenge him to shew either his Diocesan Bishops liturgies or festivals and the c. of his ceremonies in the first Apostolick Church or in these two ages mentioned by him That there were not diocesan Bishops then or long after we have already proved and far less Erastian Prelats For holy dayes let him shew by divine appointment any other then the Christian Sabath in the Apostolick Church if he can or in the first succeeding ages As for the feast of Esther it is acknowledged to have come in by custome after the Apostolick times For liturgies we assert that the Apostolick Church and age knew no such thing as set impos'd liturgies and formes other then Christs prescriptions as to baptism the Lords supper and that they pray'd as was suteable to the present action and circumstances of time place and persons If he betake him to the liturgies which are ascribed to Peter James Mathew Andrew Clement Mark Dionisius Areopagite and other Disciples protestant writers will stigmatize him for embracing that which they have abundantly proved to be counterfit That liturgies had no place for a long time in the Church is proved by clear testimonies Tertullian Apol. cap. 30. shews that in their publick Assemblies christians did pray sine monitore quia de pectore that is without a prescription because from their heart And in his treatise de Oratione sayes that there are somethings to be asked according to the occasions of every man that the Lords prayer being laid as a fundation its lawfull to build on that
Reformation whereof these points mentioned are one main piece rather then such as have turn'd aside to this course of perjurious defection Sure our obligations mentioned do every way include Presbyterian Ministers exclude Conformists Presbyterian Ministers are maintaining the peoples right and liberty to call their pastour Conformists are selling away this peice of her reformation liberty and thus crossing the scripture-pattern the first are adhering to this Churches vowes and people are obliged to owne these Ministers that are pursuing the ends the other are casting them away c. Again 3. all the motives mentioned in the premised act of parliament and in our Churches publick acts in opposition to patronages and prelatick usurpations in a Ministers entry are still binding and in force according to our principles as the Informer will not for very shame deny and he must admit this supposition since in this point he professeth to argue against us upon our own principles and so what did then engadge to restore this peice of our Churches libertie and Reformation the same doth now bind to adhere therunto and consequently to owne the Ministers that contend for this Reformation rather then the backsliders and deserters thereof 4. This man dare not assert that the granting conformists to have the essence of a Ministerial call will in every case infer the conclusion of hearing them or that the granting a Minister to have this is the only adequat ground which will in all circumstantiat cases make hearing necessary For 1. What if he be violently obtruded by a part of the congregation upon the previously call'd Minister his labours to whom the people stand oblig'd to adhere Again 2. What if he be promoting a Schismatick course setting up an altar against an altar as some of these men tell us in their Pamphlets will a people cross their principles as to his having the essence of a Ministeriall call if they refuse to follow him in that Schismatick course Nay he will not say it 3. What will our Informer answer to Presbyterian Ministers plea for peoples adherence to them upon their lawful call mission and entry to their charges will this infer a necessity of the people's owning them and deserting conformists If it will not as he must here say or yeeld the cause then he must confess that acknowledgment of the essence of Curats call will not absulutely plead for hearing them untill before the Scripture barr and by the constitutions and reformation of this Church they can prove their claim to be better then that of Presbyterian Ministers to officiat as her true Pastours which will be ad Kalendas Graecas whatever he can pretend here as to disowning of Presbyterian Ministers in their administrations notwithstanding of their having a lawfull call and pastoral relation to this Church will be easily retorted upon himself and abundantly counterballanced by that which in the case of conformists may be pleaded to supersede and stop the peoples owning of them in this circumstantiat posture of our Church So that the state of the question here being this whether Ministers ordained by Bishops and presented by Patrons or those who are ordained by the Presbytry and called by the people have best right to officiat in this Church as her Pastours according to the Scripture rule her reformation and principles and to be own'd or disownd by the people accordingly The decision will be very easy and favourable to Presbyterian Ministers and exclusive of all his fraternity And whatever he doth here alledge anent Pâ—…esbyterian Ministers schism intrusion or disorder will be easily retorted upon himself reputando rem in universum ab initio Or tracing matters to their true originals But now what sayes our Informer to this argument of his Doubter as he slenderly propones it to make it foordable 1. He tells us that sundry whom we refuse to hear entred by the peoples call But tho it were granted that such might be heard who are but a few how will this plead for all the rest and loose his Doubters argument as to them 2. we told him that it s not the want of the peoples call simply and abstractedly from the circumstances of our case that we ground upon in disowning them no more then it is Presbyterian Ministers want of an Episcopal ordination which he pleads simply as the ground of disowning them But our ground is their standing all of them in a direct stated opposition to the Reformation union and order of this Church and driving on an interest and design tending to overturn it and by consequence being lyable to her highest censures and likewise their persecuting and opposing faithful Ministers contending for her Reformation 3. All those who he alledges entered by the peoples call havng by their conformity to this Prelacy and Erastianism disowned their first entry in this manner and obtained presentation from Patrons and collation from prelats according to their new acts and orders are now of the same stamp with the rest as to their principles and carriage and consequently the peoples disowning them upon the fore-mentioned grounds in this our case falls under the same obligations with their disowning others and the rather because their apostacy is an aggravation of their guilt But now what sayes our Informer to this text Acts. 14. 23. which is brought by his Doubter to prove the peoples right in the election of Pastours He grants that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is borrowed from the custom used in some of the ancient Greek states where the people signifyed their election of Magistrats by the stretching forth of their hands because the word so signifies Well what then hath he to quarrell at in this argument for the peoples right in the call of Ministers from this text 1. He tells us that Doctor Hamond and other Criticks shew that the word is oftenused by writters to express the action of one single person as it s taken by Luke Acts 10. 41. Speaking of Gods chusing or appointing So that the word is not necessarly to be understâ—…od of the action of many chsiung by snffrages Ans. That the Greek Word in its ordinary and constant acceptation doth import and is made use of to signify a chusing by suffrages and lifting up or extending the hands Presbyterian Writers have proven from a full consent of Criticks Interpreters and the best Greeck authors The Syriack version shewes that the word is not to be understood of the Apostles ordination of Elders but of the Churches election of Elders in rendering the text thus Moreover they made to themselves that is the disciples mentioned in the former verse made to themselves for such as were made were not Elders or Ministers to Paul Barnabas but to the multitude of the disciples in every Church while they were fasting with them praying commending them c. Which election could not be but after the Grecian form by the Churches lifting up or stretching out of
be taken as joint acts of Paul Barnabas and of the Churches together with them viz. That they all concurr'd in making them Elders by suffrage and in prayer and fasting and commending themselves to the Lord. 3. How proves he that the relative they in our translation is referred to Paul and Barnabas only rather then the Churches sure this is a blind proof and as we use to say a Baculo ad angulum they ordain'd elders Ergo Paul and Barnabas only ordain'd by Imposition of hands since the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it s resolved by the learned cannot hardly in propriety of speech import laying on of hands in ordination which was proper to Paul and Barnabas and the Septuagint whom Luke followes expressing the laying on of hands by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Our Informer must acknowledge this from the sequel of his own reasoning for he tells us that Paul and Barnabas could not elect Ministers very true and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in its native acceptation signifies election by suffrage as he hath acknowledged must relate to the people Since there could be no hand-suffrage betwixt Paul and Barnabas 4. Giving and not granting that this was an act of Paul and Barnabas distinct from the Churches suffrage our argument stands good and this will not in the least yeeld the question as this man foolishly imagines for to read it thus Paul and Barnabas ordained elders by suffrage is all one with this that they ordained such to be elders as were chosen by the Chuch The people declared by hand-suffrage whom they would have to be Elders and Paul and Barnabas ordained them Elders As the Consul who held the court among the Romans created new Magistrats that is did receive the votes and preside in the elections Since as I said the hand-suffrage cannot in any propriety of speech relate to Paul and Barnabas alone See Calvines Institut lib. 4. cap. 53. paragr 15. and Mr Gillesp. ubi supra who further tells us that this may be either an action of the Church only as the Syriack makes it or a joint action both of the Churches and of Paul and Barnabas as Iunius makes it or an action of Paul and Barnabas in this sense that they did constitute elders to the Churches by the Churches own voices in all which senses 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stands good for us To which we may add that Calvine renders the word cuâ—… suffragiis creassent when the had made by votes Adding that Paul and Barnabas ordained Ministers to the Churches for they did preside over and moderat the people's election Presbyteros dicuntur eligere Paulus Barnabas an soli hoc privato officio faciunt quum potius rem permittunt omnium sugragiis Ergo in Pastoribus creandis libera fuit populi electio sed ne quia tumulâ—…uose fieret praesident Paulus barnabas quasi Moderatores That is Paul and Barnabas are said to ebuse Elders but do they this solely and by themselves and do not rather remit this to the suffrages of all therefore in the making of Pastours the people had a free election and choise but left any thing should be done tumultuously Paul and Barnabas do preside as Moderatours So he sayes we are to understand the decree of the Council of Laodicea which seemed to inhibit the people's elections The Dutch Annot. upon this passage do tell us that this was a custome among the Greeks in chusing their Magistrats that the people by lifting up their hands give to understand their voting so it seems that from thence this custome was also used in the primitive Church that the setting forth of Ministers of the Church being done by Apostles or those that were sent by them for this purpose was approved by the Church by the lifting up of their hands which use long continued in the Church as the Ecclesiastick histories testify And having told us that others understand this of imposition of hands which they set down as the secondary and less probable opinion they add that this also was done with consent of the church as appears by the fasting and praying which was done by the whole Congregation and was also done in this chusing of the Elders referring to 1 Tim. 5. 17. Acts 10. 41. upon which passage they shew that the Greek word in Acts 14. 23. signifies properly by lifting up of hands to choose or ordain and is here used concerning the choosing of ordinary Ministers by the suffrages of the Church to which this extraordinary choosing of Apostles is here opposed as being done by lifting up or stretching forth of Gods hand alone Upon Acts. 6. 6. where mention is made of laying on of hands they tells us that as this was usual in blessing Gen. 48. 14. in sacrifices Lev. 1. 4. and in installing into offices Numb 27. 18. Deut 34. 9. So the Church pointing at the Apostolick Churches practice in investiture of Ministers did thus dedicate them to God his service and used thus to wish his blessing 1 Tim. 5. 22. The English annot upon this text under debate do shew that the word signifies making of such a choise as was made or confirmed by lifting up of hands to signify suffrages or consent and having told us of the general signification of the word in reference to ordination or appointing chap. 10. 41. they add that the Syriack reads the text thus and they appointed to them Elders in every Congregation Whence they collect that Paul and Barnabas did not all alone in ordaining Church-government other Christians shew'd their consent or approbation of the persons who were ordained Elders by lifting up their hands as very wee l knowing of what behaviour they had been among them so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies say they to disallow by some act election or decree Adding that Suidas interprets 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which his Interpreter renders electio delectus per suffragia confirmatio populi totius consensus an election choosing a confirmation by voices consent of all the people Let our Informer here observe 1. That the choosing of Ministers by suffrage and consent of the Church is imported and held out in this passage under debate in the consentient judgment of Interpreters and that this greek word as in its ordinary so its special acceptation in this place will clearly infer so much whatever authority in ordination and election as to Paul and Barnabas and of Ministers consequently the circumstances of this text will bear out and infer 2. That this interest of the people in the election and call of Ministers is comprobate by the judgement and consentient practice of the ancient Church as the history therof doth verify 3. That that passage Act. 10. 41. doth in their sense nothing invalidate this right of the people held out in this text the one place speaking of an immediat choosing by God the
they would not have allowed and commanded the faithfull prophets and members of that Church to oppose them and cleave unto their respective duties and unto one another in the following thereof As for what he adds that there was then no command to separat from the worship while it was not substantially corrupted I wonder if he will charge a corruption of the worship it self or in the substance thereof upon the duties now owned and performed by Presbyterian Ministers and professors from whom he notwithstanding thinks its duty to separat so that untill he prove as I said Conformists their better claim to officiat as Ministers of this Church then Presbyterian Ministers this argument lights heavy on himself and the censures put upon Novatians and Donatists falls upon their dividing and destroying party The case of these Schismaticks being as far from ours as east from west were Novatians or Donatists first cast out by a violent backsliding party for not concurring in a course of backsliding in overturning a Churches sworn reformation and were they enjoyned commanded to owne the course of these backsliders I think the Donatists Novatians their violence against adherers to the union of the true Church is a fit emblem of the present practice of Conformists how can this Man say that there were then greater corruptions them now Can there be greater corruptions in government then a papacy of the highest degree as is their premacy and hierarchy can there be greater corruptions in practice then perjury and such grosse prophanity as Conformists are blotted with for the most part greater corruption in principles then Popish Arminian errors c. The Doubter objects that if we may not separat from a corrupt Church what mean these scripture commands enjoyning separation such as 2 Cor. 6. 14 15 16. 1 Cor. 5. 11 2 Thes 3. 6 Rev. 18. 3 We have already said that he deals deceitfully in making his Presbyterian Doubter assert that we may separat from a corrupt Church in every case but this we say that in whatever case and in how far soever we cannot joyn with a corrupt Church without the contagion and stain of its corruptions in so far and in that case a separation is necessary and falls within the compass of these scripture commands And that in this our case the demanded conformity as to Presbyterian Ministers and professors cannot be yeelded without the stain of prelatists their sin is above cleared So that he needs not tell us here that every corruption is not a sufficient ground of separation For we have heard our Informer acknowledge that a Church may be in that degree corrupted as will render a separation warrantable yea and necessary I could wish he had condescended upon that degree of corruption and showen us here the maximum quod sic minimum quod non as to the ground of this separation and how far these corruptions may strike at a Churches vitals and yet her life and essence as a Church subsist And here I would close in a litle with this Man and enquire that since a Churches corruptions will with him in some cases render a separation necessary upon what ground is it necessary and from what prior principle is this concluded sure it must be upon this ground left union with that Church blott the soul and make us share in her sin So that in this case we are not obliged to hold union and fellowship with her when it is infectious as is most clearly imported in that command 2 Cor. 6. and if separation be upon this ground allowed whether the corruption be lesser or greater eatenus or in so far we are obliged to separat for Majus minus non variant speciem rei Next I infer that a non-union to a corrupt party who cannot be called the Church or at lest whose being the Church is magnalis sub judice will be a fortiori warranted and upon lesser grounds then separation which supposes an anterior obligation of union and actuall union out of this case and abstracting from it But for these scriptures mentioned he sayes they will not prove our point and to that of 2 Cor 6. 14. he answers that our Lord is speaking of separating from ungodly fellowship with Idolaters not of withdrawing from christian assemblies But doth he not enjoyn that separation because of the hazard of Infection by their sin and why not also from christian assemblies where there is the same hazard of this Infection did he not acknowledge that the case of a Church or christian Assembly may be such as will render even a separation necessary Now if in this case the tender separater should plead this text and that corrupt Church or assembly of Christians give our Informers answer viz. that it pleads only for separating from fellowship with Idolaters not of withdrawing from christian Assemblies how will he extricat himself and reconcile this answer with his concession But for these texts 1 Cor. 5. 11. and 2 Thess. 3. 6. he sayes they are meant only of needless fellowship in privat converse with scandalous persons but allowes not to withdraw from the publick worship because of the presence of such scandalous ones as if this did pollute the worship though it may be the fault of Church guides not to keep them back Ans. The ground here is the same and acknowledged by him whatever be the withdrawing which is more immediately enjoyned viz. lest their fellowship prove contagious scandalous or in any measure sinfull so if fellowship with a Church in her Assemblies be thus infectious these scriptures do enjoyn a separation upon the same ground and by necessary consequence from what he hath acknowleged And therefore this answer is nothing to the purpose unless he will retract his concession that there may be corruptions in a Church and her assemblies which will render a separation necessary Next as for what he adds that ordinances are not polluted by the presence of scandalous ones It is not for him nor against us since he acknowledges there may be a Lawfull yea necessary separation from a Church her assemblies in worship tho not upon this ground of the ordinances their pollution by the presence of scandalous ones because of the reason which we have already heard and we do also upon other grounds then this of a pretended pollution of the ordinances by their scandals maintain our disowning Conformists in their worship to be a duty as we have heard even that they are forcing all to a sinfull complyance with them in a schismatick departing from the unity of this Church and perjurious overturning the work of reformation and will neither suffer Ministers nor professors to joyn with them in worship but with an express aknowledgement in the intent of our Laws and owning of this defection Sure we are commanded to withdraw from every Brother that walks disorderly which our Informer pleads as a sufficient ground to disowne Presbyterian Ministers
backsliders who are destroying and ruining the pure Church but in this case our prior obligation is in order to adherence to that pure Church and her faithfull Ministry thus opposed as is said But now at last our Informer who hath been hitherto silent as to any inference from his citations drawes out a general conclusion from them that in Mr Rutherfoords Iudgment and the English divines neither the personal faults of Ministers Nor real faults about the Worship much less supposed only will warrand a separation which when admitted lifts not his cause one hair breadth off the dust as is clear from what is said since he hath proved none of these three either 1. That they are the Church of Scotland to which we are bound to adhere according to the tenour and principles of our Reformation nor 2. That this practice of disowning them in this our case is a sinfull separation Or 3. that we disowne then meerly for personal scandals or some corruption in Worship Whereas we have proved that abstracting from both these we have ground of disowning them as Schismatick Innovators destroying this Church and himself must grant that there may be a non-union unto yea a separation from a party ground lesly assuming the name of a Church though neither their personal faults do pollute the worship nor the worship it self be simpliciter disowned or else he must yeeld the cause when this is pleaded in behalf of Presbyterian Ministers and for not separating from them since it is upon this ground that all along he pleads for people's disowning them though he dare not say that the ordinances are polluted by their supposed scandals After this our Informer exhorts his Doubter to try all things and not to be ashamed to retract what is amiss as Augustin wrote books of retractions and Ierom exhorted Ruffinus not to be ashamed to confess an error Ans. I think indeed we are to search all things by the rule of the word and had he with a single heart and an eye to the God of truth searched better he had not obtruded upon Gods people in defence of so bad a cause such insignificant arguments for demonstrations But why exhorted he not his Doubter to hold fast what is good as well as to try all things It is not fit to be ever learning and fixe in nothing And no doubt this latter part of that scripture precept justifies our opposing their Innovations But he pleads for retractions and it s no wonder to see men who have Justified the casting aside such solemn Oaths and vows unto God plead for retractions But if he and his party retract not such monstrous retractions the very naming whereof would have made Augustin and Jerom astonished the wo threatned against perjury backsliding breach of Covenant is very near them His concluding prayer that God bless us with truth and peace is good and heartily accorded and surely when our Jerusalem shall have this spiritual prosperity peace and truth which this man pretends to pray for within her walls prelats and their wofull train and corrupt principles which have made such sad breaches in her walls will be without them And the prosperity of such as love her will ruine her enemies His Doubters Resolution to hold fast what is good upon the proof of all things makes up his lame advice And having thus fortifyd the Knowledge of the serious Doubter in that which this man hath been misinforming him about and antidoted this poyson we pray that all the sincere enquirers for truth may hold it fast against the times errors and defection The character of schism presented to us at the close of the pamphlet is verifyed in the party he pleads for since their proud usurpation of the name and authority of this Church after they have thus rent and separat from her demonstrats this their schism to be superbiaeproles And in their taking up such grosse unheard of principles anent Oaths anent Magistracy c. to maintain and uphold this usurping hierarchy they are like to fall under that other branch of the character of schism that male perseverando fit haeresis And because of the corruptions which it is like to be more more productive of It may very probably become also mater haereseos The Lord awake for judgement and send a plentifull rain to water his in heritance and revive his work in the admist of the years and make his face to shine upon his sanctuary in these lands which is disolat for his names sake CHAP. VI. Animadversions Upon the PREFACE And title Page HAveing thus examined what this new Casuist hath offered in these Dialogues we shall here subjoyn some Animadversions upon the Preface prefixt to this pamplet 1. His profest design is to let people see the sin and unwarrantableness of separation as the Epidimicall desease of the time Ans. I think indeed it is so and upon whose side this separation lyes and who hath brought in this flood as he calls it not since 78 but 62 I hope may be now no doubt to the impartiall discerner It s no strange thing to see men charge upon others that whereof themselves are so eminently guilty Papists call themselves the only Catholicks and charge Protestant Churches with separation just as this man and his Innovating party deal with us they only must be the Church of Scotland and we the Schismaticks though not many years agoe it would have been thought I beleeve by many of these men themselves as strange aâ—…e absurditie and paradox to term such a party owning such principles and practices as they now doe the Church of Scotland as to affirm that nihil was aliquid non ens ens or that Zenith was in the situation and place of Nadir such ane intoxicating thing is backsliding and sinfull self love 2. He praises Magistrats in the bounds where he is whose authority together with his mightie convictions forsooth brought back people who went once to hear Presbyterian Ministers out of noveltie Ans â—…s no small peice of our sin and desolation that the Magistrats sword given him for protection of the Lords faithfull Ambassadours in following theire duty according to there solemn vowes to God should be improven in such a sinfull opposition to them What peace and order in this Church hath attended their monstrous perperjurious backsliding were 20 years experience may discover especiallie to those who have seen and known the beautifull order of our first glorious â—…temple the verie rubbish whereof is yet refreshfull in any remains of a faithfull Ministrie that is left 3. Against his modest reluctancie forsooâ—…h some of authoritie and learning among his party thought it fitt that these his Dialogues should see the light because schismatick principles and practices are not laid aside but carried on and this Informer thou ht it a mater of conscience to discover to such as are willing to be informed how unwarrarantable such coursâ—…s are if Scripure and even the Doct ine