it publikly in all partes or the most of Christendome since the happy time of our blessed Sauiour and therefore that our Church hath alvvaies bin a visible state though not so stately as they boast of theirs to their ovvne shame if Saint Augustin may be iudge vvho calleth Rome in regard of this pompe and pride the Western Babylon the second Babylon another Babylon de cinit d 16. c. 17. l. 1 22.27 the daughter of the former Babylon the earthly citie Yet for their further satisfaction I further aske of them doe not they thēselues say they beleeue all these former points doe they not stand vpon it that they haue euer so professed Is there any thing in there religion of more moment and vveight or any other part of doctrine besides these absolutely necessarie to saluation vvhy then doe they aske vs vvhere and by vvhome this religion of ours vvas professed before Luthers time May vve not vvell and charitably affirme that it vvas professed in Fraunce Spaine and Italy yea in Rome euer since first Rome embraced the gospell preached by the Apostles Doubtlesse I am persvvaded that many thousands euen nowe in these countries where the popes keyes preuaile doe truely hold the 12. articles of the Apostles creede and Athanasius his creede which he calleth the Catholike faith with all the other points of doctrine set down before which if they doe holding the foūdation though they build vpon it woode hay 〈◊〉 3. or stubble that is some erroneous doctrine yet they are the true Church of God and shall be saued A pearle is a pearle though in an heape of dust wine is wine though mingled with water and wheate is wheate though couered with much chaffe and is not the mysterie of godlinesse whereof Paul speaketh god manifested in the flesh 〈◊〉 3. iustified in the spirit seene of Angels preached vnto the Gentils beleeued on in the world receiued vp in glorie still the mysterie of godlinesse and that trueth and sure foundation whereō the house of god is builded though matter vnsutable vnto it be laide vpon it yes verely And therefore seing the Church of Rome hath euer held the misterie of godlinesse though mingled with many dregs of mens inuentions I doubt not but God hath euer had a people amongst them and a true Church more then 7000. which haue not bowed the knee vnto Baal what we are to thinke of their leaders and teachers which indeed haue corrupted this doctrine with their owne leauen and endeauoured by all meanes to shut vp and obscure this mysterie is another question especially for those that haue done it wilfully and malitiously and died in that malice But of the rest thus we iudge and thus we answere that so many as truely holde and professe all the former articles of doctrine as I assure my selfe many doe are fellowe members with vs in the same mysticalll bodie whereof Christ is the head And therefore our church hath euer beene in theirs though not euer so manifest to the eye of the worlde as it was for the space of the first fiue hundred yeares Me thinkes this answere should well content them and fully satisfie them being so charitable towards them But to giue them an answere of their owne and by themselues to let them see that the true Church is not alwaies so visible as they pretende They knowe that nowe in England they haue not authoritie to countenance their religion and Church and yet they say that they haue a Church amongest vs and where they dare well say it they are bold to say it is a great one yea the greter part though I trust they shall neuer prooue it in that number Why then in persecution and when the Lord punisheth the vnthankefulnesse of men with taking awaie our publike and autorised assemblies may not we as well haue a church holding the true faith of Christ according to his word as they now a flocke cleauing to the Bishop of Rome M. Rome hath alwaies beene called the Mother Church and they doe ioyne with that Rome is not he mother Church S. Howe can Rome be the mother church when shee is later then those first churches of Hierusalem and Antioche Can a mother be yonger then her daughters or her daughters elder then their mother The very scriptures teach vs that all churches and euen Rome it selfe haue risen out of the Churche of Hierusalem Fou out of Sion shall his lavve come and the word from Hierusalem M. You answer me well that Rome cannot be the mother Church of al because other churches haue beene before her Neuertheles of this Church of England shee is rightly the mother because this land receiued the faith frō her first by Eleutherius the Pope and martir who sent Daminianus and Fugatius to teach it to the Britanes at the request of their king who was then Lucius and after by Gregory the great who sent Augustine and Melitus with other holy priests to teach our auncestours the english who then were planted here and had remooued the Brittaines into an other corner S. Deare mother all this you are taught and told by them who abuse gods people bought with his pretious blood But it hath beene answered truely that this can not be so For first Eleuth confesseth in his answer to king Lucius his message that he had the scriptures wherin were the lawes of God farre more to be regarded then the Romane lawes he praiseth his zeale and telleth him that out of the scriptures with the aduise of his counsell he might draw conuenient lawes for his kingdome he beeing in his owne land Christs vicar c. Howe then was Eleutherius his first Apostle Againe doth not Nicephorus plainely saie in his story Simō Zelotes doctrinam Evangelij ad occidentalium Oceanum in sulasque Brittanicas perfert Lib. 2. c. 40 Simon Zelotes carried the doctrine of the gospell vnto the west Ocean sea and vnto the Islandes of Britraine This was before Eleutherius Doe not others write that Ioseph of Arimathea did it hat S. Paul in his passage this way into Spain did it and alleadge authors for it Might not the Greekes doe it or some others since euidently it appeareth by Eleutherius his own cōfession he was not the first Then for Augustine and the rest doe not these plaine testimonies of the fathers vsually alleadged to this end satisfie any man liuing not way warde that this land had the faith before him and them Tertullian liued about the yeare of our Lord 210. And his words are these Brittannorum in accessa Romanis loc a subduntur Christo 〈◊〉 Iudaeos The countries of Britane which the Romanes coulde never attaine vnto are now subiect to Christ Origen about the yeare 212 writeth Ezech. hom Terra Brittanniae in religionem Christi consensit The land of Britane hath yeelded to Christ his religion ◠Apolog. 2. Athanasius about the yeare three hundred thirtie foure hath the like
Constantine the Emperour maketh mention in his time of Christian Churches in Britane â—od l. 1. c. 10. This was about the yeare 330. S. Hilary in his time intituleth his letter Clericis Tolosanis provinciarum Britannicarum episcopis L. de Synod To the Clergi of Tolosa and to the bishops of Britane This was about the yeare 360. S. Chrisostome of his time saieth m. quod â—ristus sit de Et in sulae Britannicae extra hoe mare sitae in ipso Oceano positae senserunt virtâ—tem verbi dei The Islands of Britane beeing in the very Ocean and farre out of this our sea haue felt the power of Gods vvord This he wrotte about anno 400. Theodoret saith Huic fidei consenserunt ouâ—nes Ecclesiae quaeque in Hispania sunt Histor l. 4. c. quaeque in Britannia To this faith haue agreed all the Churches both of Spaine and Britane What can be more plaine and more fully prooued if we be not wilfull Now all these fathers and writers liued sundrie yeares before the ariuall of Austine the monke and his fellowes Therfore they by no meanes coulde bee the first planters and publishers of the faith in this land Gildas writeth that in the time of Tiberius this land was Christian Hist Aâ—g l. 2 c. 2. Beda writeth that in his time and almost a thousand yeares after Christ Easter was kept here in England after the manner of the East Church in the full moone what day in the weeke soeuer it fell on and not on the sunday as nowe we doe whereby it is very manifest and probable that the first preachers in this lande came more rather out of the East then from Rome Therefore by all these proofes and arguments Rome is not the mother Church of England for it had the trueth long before Eleutherius or Austin I spare to shewe the bloodie crueltie of this Austin whome the papists make an Apostle with other his foule vices of pride and disdaine c. our stories shewe it and I may haue other occassion hereafter M. Well sonne I will nowe goe no further with you in these pointes but I will put a case or two and tell me your minde What if a Catholike be sworne to persist in the obedience of the Church of Rome and not to revolt howe can such an one without plaine periury take another course S. Indeede this is their diuelish practise and pollicy in these daies to steale the hearts and loyaltie of the people from their prince as Absolon did from his father but came to a foule ende to creepe into houses and lead captiue simple women 〈◊〉 6. as the Apostle saieth to snare them with oathes and vowes and promises whatsoeuer they can deuise cont Val. wherein they tread in the steps of the olde Valentinian heretiques worthily taxed by Tertullian of whom that learned father saith Aditum priùs cruciant they first torment their schollers at their entranceâ—ne discipulis quidem proprijs antè coÌ„mittant quà m suos fecerint they commit not their misteries and doctrine no not to their ovvne disciples before they haue made them their owne Habent artificium quo priùs persuadeant quà m edoceant they haue a tricke of legerdemaine first to persvvade before they teach Even as nowe our Iesuits and seminarie priests when they seeke to reconcile any to their mother the Church of Rome they take them sworne vpon the sacrament of the altar that they shall euer after cleaue fast to thaâ— synagogue renounce all our doctrine church assemblies And before they haue thus made them their owne and fettered their consciences with a vowe they doe not open their packet of Romish wares vnto them They beginn with perswasions and end with instructions But the trueth saith Tertullian perswadeth by instructioÌ„ instructeth not by perswasion ibidem Veritas docenâ— persuadet non suadendo doc And doubtlesse trueth is euer strong and will prevaile with as many as God hath ordained to eternall life The Lords sheepe may stray a time buâ— at last the cheife sheapheard that leaueth 99 in the wildernes and goeth to seeke what is lost will finde them in mercy and ioifully bring them to his folde and to the rest that straied not as they did Nowe touching your case good mother consider well in your selfe this one thing whether any vnder heaueÌ„ way lavvfully giue me an oath or I lavvfully take an oath either to doe vvhat God flatly forbiddeth me or to leaue vndone what God flatly commandeth me M. No sure I am fully resolued of that S. Then must I consider not onely that I haue sworne but to what I haue sworne and if I finde that vnlawfull you see my oath may not binde me against the Lord. Nowe we boldly avowe as you haue heard and euer so did we avowe that if any parcel of our christian faith wherevnto we perswade be not that which God in his word hath commanded and forbidden the contrary we will renounce it Therefore I must weigh the doctrine as well as my vow or oath and if the doctrine be true that I haue sworn against and that false which I haue sworne to keepe you haue confessed that you thinke this oath wicked and not to be kept M. Surely I cannot say otherwise for my conscience telleth me it is so S. Howe then is it that many thus entangled neuer goe about to consider the matter but altogether sticke to their oath and thinke with themselues I haue sworne therefore I may not chaunge M. I know it to be true and I see it is a falt for surely no oath ought to force me either to euill or from good concerning the loosing or sauing of my soule S. Your true opinion mother in this matter may be confirmed by examples out of gods booke Iephtha you know made a rash vowe Iud. 11. â— which is in the nature of an oath to offer to God what first met him out of his house wheÌ„ he returned home and had gotten the victory against his enemies His own daughter mette him first Did he well to kill her What if a dogge or a swine had met him beeing things that God would not abide to be vsed in sacrifice should his oath haue tyed him directly to doe that which god abhorred if not those theÌ„ not his childe if obedience be better then sacrifice of things lawefull how much more then sacrifice of such crueltie and vnnaturall blooddinesse Iephta therefore is condemned and euer shal be for this wicked keeping of his vow Herod made a promise to his dancing daughter you know the story did he well to keepe that oath Iudge in your conscience how God liked that fact The â—ext saith Mat. â—â— Herod was sorry wheÌ„ he heard her petitioÌ„ yet for his oaths sake he sent and beheaded Iohn Baptist in the prison O bloodie oath and sinfull keeping of it His coÌ„science whipped him whilst he liued for it and
Tit. S. Hierome considering well the place before named in the Acts saieth Quod magis mirum sit c. And that wee may the more maruaile we may once againe read this place of the Acts of the Apostles where wee finde that the Christian and Ecclesiastical discipline was euen then of wicked meÌ„ called Heresie Many others haue witnessed as much therefore since it is no new thing but the very custome of Satan euer I trust you see there is great cause not to be carried away with mens speaches whose eies be blinded by the god of this worlde but with true and sound proofes If they cannot shew that we haue fallen away from Christ nor from his Apostles nor from the prophets if we beleeue as surely we doe all that is written in them maintain nothing as necessarie to salvation but what may be plainely shewed to be taught vs by them how iniurious and shamfull yea fearefull a dealing it is neuerthelesse to call vs Heretiques good mother consider in your selfe Me thinkes in this place S. Austens speech somtimes to Petilian the Donatist is good who said thus contra Petil. 2. cap. 85. Vtrum nos schismatici sumus an vos nec ego nec tu sed Christus interrogetur vt indicet Ecclesiam suam Whether of vs be scismatiques or heretiques aske not of either of vs but let Christ be asked for vs both that he may shewe vs his owne Church that is let the scriptures bee searched and let them declare the trueth which they will doe M. Sonne for your first point that it is not safe to iudge of things by names because Gods truth hath bin called heresy as you haue shewed and I see it plainely I ioyne with you and take it for a good caveat hereafter to beware but for your second point that therefore you should not be counted heretiques because you say you holde nothing disagreeable to the scriprures I cannot approoue it because heretiques as I haue heard at al times haue boasted of scripture as you doe S. Good mother I am very glad you perceiue how truth hath bene slandered with the name of heresie Scripture and therefore how fit it is in matters of salvation not to be mooued by speches of men but euer to search seeke for due true proofe and for the second point I trust God shall make you see it also if it please you to goe along with me True it is which you say you haue heard that heretiques alleadge scripture and you knowe that the diuell himselfe who is as bad as any heretique 〈◊〉 4. alleadged scriptures but what then is not it therfore a safe way to cleaue to the scriptures and only vpon them to ground our faith yes surely which shall appeare euen by this practise of Satan being duly considered for such is the skill of that old subtill serpent that as he knoweth to fitte his temptations to the humour and disposition of them whome he tempteth so he vseth to set vpon men by those perswasions which he is most likely to seduce them by as to Eve in paradice he promised the knowledge of good and euill 〈◊〉 3. â—â—od 7. 〈◊〉 Chron. 18.11 to obstinate Pharaoh he presented lying wonders to wicked Ahab delighting in lies he came in the month and consent of many false prophets to the superstitious and hypocriticall Iewes he pretended the temple of the Lord â—er 7.4 â—ct 19.27 17. â—â— to the populous ancient heathen vniuersalitie and antiquity to our Sauiour the written word of God which he thought if any thing would preuaile with him So the diuell in alleadging onely scripture against our Sauiour turneth himselfe into an angell of light and would seeme to doe that which is most holy in it selfe most acceptable vnto god most comfortable to men most sure for their safegard and protection which doth not diâ—credit the triall of truth in points of faith by scripture only but rather countenance and confirme it because it argueth the disposition and setled affection of our blessed Sauiour towards these sacred writings that he made them the tower of his defence the rocke of his safegarde the foundation of his whole obedience accounted nothing a ground of faith and dutie but onely scripture and therefore that we likewise should cleaue fast to the written word of God turning neither to the right nor left hand but walking constantly in the obedience thereof Wherefore though this alleadging of scripture be a worke of darknesse both because he did misâ—alleadge it leaving out a principall part of the sentence and so corrupting it and also for that he did it as a lying spirit to deceiue Yet to alledge the scripture rightly with an vpright minde to a good ende shall euer be as the dutie of Gods people so the shield and buckler of their defence yea the crowne and glorie of the children of light whereby they shall resemble their head our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus who as you may see in the gospel gaue not ouer his holde because the deuill abused it but with scripture againe he answered him and so both iustified himselfe and confounded his aduersary which also hath beene the manner good mother of the church of God at all times As namely at the first most holy and vncorrupt Councell helde at Hierusalem by the Apostles themselues 〈◊〉 15. where the question debated was whether the beleeuing Gentiles could be saued onely by faith in Christ Iesus without circumcision and the obseruation of the lawe of Moses as Paul and Barnabas affirmed and preached against certaine who came from Iudea and taught the contrary For the deciding whereof in that most catholike and orthodoxall Councel S. Peter alleadged the testimony of God himselfe who sent him to the Gentiles Cornelius and his friendes to preach vnto them not the lawe of Moses but the word of the gospel that they might beleeue and blessed his ministerie with happy successe giuing vnto them the holy ghost and purifying their hearts by saith which he calleth Gods testimony God saith he bare witnesse vnto them giuing them the holy ghost c 〈◊〉 8. â— And S. Iames in his sentence alleadged the written word of God both to confirme that which S. Peter had deliuered and to ende the controuersie 〈◊〉 14. Symeon saith he hath declared howe god first visited the Gentiles tooke of them a people vnto his name and to this agree the wordes of the Prophets as it is written c. Likewise at the famous Counsell of Nice the worthy Emperour Constantine whome god raised vp to ende the persecutions of his Church and to giue it rest saide thus to the bishops assembled there Theod. lib. 1. cap. 7. Evangelicae Apostolicae literae c. the writings of the Evangelists and Apostles and the sayings of the olds Prophets doe clearely instruct vs what iudgement we ought to haue of the meaning and will of God Therefore laying
that good woman Lydia the purple seller 〈◊〉 16. whose heart was also opened This blessed gift doth the Apostle think of when he wisheth to the Ephesians the spirit of wisdome and revelation that the eyes of their vnderstanding might be opened â—hes 1.17 lightned that they might knowe c. So to the Philippians and to the Colossians and of this speaketh Elihu in the booke of Iob â—lip 1.9 â—lost 1.9 There is a spirit in man but the inspiration of the almighty giueth vnderstanding Iob 32.8 This did king Dauid knowe and therefore asked this heauenly gift by earnest prayer often saying Teach me O Lord teach me thy statutes teach me thy waies open mine eyes that I may beholde the wonderfull things in thy lawe Origen saith Orandus est Deus vt aperiat librum obsignatum we must beseech God by prayer to open the booke that is sealed The Lord is no respect of persons but as he hath done he will doe and heare the desires of his children that wish to know his will This is the way mother this is the way that neuer failed any who vsed it neither will it faile you But you shall see by it the true and right applying of the scriptures howsoeuer others abuse and mis-construe them In a worde therefore marke I beseech you that we doe not affirme all cases of doubt to be by manifest and open wordes plainely expressed in scripture for so there should neede no exposition but we say and affirme that there is no case in religion necessarie to Gods worship or mans salvation so darke and doubtful but it may necessarily be either prooued or disprooued by true collection and conference in scripture M Sonne I marke your speech well and your words fall not to the ground yet I hope you will confesse that our men doe well in regarding the doctours as they doe S. Surely mother I doe confesse the doctours of the Church worthy of more regard then is giuen them sometimes by Romish Catholickes Doctoures And you see by my alleadging of them that I greatly regard them But seeing you haue mentioned this matter I doe hartely intreat you to marke a fewe things in that behalfe First that they are not Domini sedduces nostri Not our Lords but our leaders And therfore S. Augustin saith Other writers or fathers besides the holy scriptures I read in this sort that be their learning or holinesse neuer so great I wil not thinke it true because they haue thought so but because they are able to perswade me so either by Canonicall writers or els by some likely reason Likewise againe This kind of writings meaning the holy doctoures must be reade not with necessitie to beleeue each thing but with libertie to iudge each thing For we may not consent to the bishops notwithstanding they be Catholike â—nit Eccl. c. if they iudge contrarie to the holy Canonicall scriptures This is the right credit of holy fathers they are not the trueth of God it selfe but onely witnesses vnto the trueth no more haue they they theÌ„selues euer desired no lesse ought we euer to giue them Heare I pray you the words of the same father againe we receiue not the disputations or writings of any men be they neuer so Catholicke or praise-worthy Fortunat. â—â—t 111. as we receiue the Canonicall scriptures but that sauing their reuerence we may well reprooue or refuse some things in their writings if it happen we finde they haue otherwise though then the trueth may beare them out such am I in the writings of others and such would I wish others to be in mine He writeth to S. Hierom againe to the same effect Non puto frater ep 19. c. My brother I doe not thinke you would haue vs so to read your bookes as if they were written by the Apostles and Prophets To the like purpose writeth Tertullian of himselfe and the rest wherein their holy modestie is worthy great praise for euer they tooke not vpon them to be Lords but leaders and to that ende the Lord hath giuen theÌ„ as excellent lights to his church So of Counsels S. Austen telleth vs that the former are reiected by the later c. Likewise Panormitan saith vve ought to giue more credit to on lay man then to an whole councell and to the Pope if he bring better authority and more reason This is my first obseruatioÌ„ in this matter of the doctours My secoÌ„d is this which I humbly pray you to marke that as scriptures haue beene abused by heretiques so haue fathers and therefore if we must giue ouer the one for mis-applyings so must we the other also for the same reason The Arrian heretiques alleadged Origens bookes for their defence and safegard Socr. l. 4. c. Concil Ch act 2. p. 732 the heretique Eutiches saide I haue read the writings of the father Saint Cyprian as also of other holy writers and of the holy father Saint Athanasius Another of his sect cryed this is my faith according to the exposition of 318 fathers The Nestorian heretiques alleadged the Counsel of Nice p. â—â—7 and not to weary you with many Dioscorus the heretique cried out in the open Councell of Chalcedon 〈◊〉 1. p. 767. Ego habeo testimonia sanctorum patrum I haue the testimonies of the holy fathers Athanasius Gregory Cyrill I varie not from them in any point I am thrown forth and banished with the fathers I defend the fathers doctrine I haue their iudgement vttered not by chaunce or vnaduisedly but remaining expressed in their bookes Therefore you see good mother that heretiques haue cried as well fathers fathers as scriptures scriptures and yet neither the one nor the other for this cause to be reiected My third obseruation might be of counterfeit and young yesterday fathers alleadged by papists and of small credit or reuerence giuen to fathers by them that boast thus of fathers when they please whereof I assure you we haue notable examples with many things moe but that I feare to be troublesome vnto you M. Yet sonne seeing our faith was long before yours me thinks the fathers should rather make for vs then for you S. And why say you not so of the scriptures which were many yeares before any of the fathers Surely if your faith were before ours Old faith as well scriptures as fathers would giue on your side and indeed both would make for you New faith the fathers desiring to holde nothing but that they iudged agreeable to scripture which euer they make the rule and ground of faith and trueth and not their own writings as you haue seene But good Mother they abuse you and many moe that tell you your faith that is as nowe you meane the Romish faith was before ours for I assure you it is not so but very newe and younge in comparison of ours M. What our faith newe Sonne yours old Alas I see these
the tares were cast into the good fielde Shall not a white head be taken so to be vnlesse the precise beginning of white haires be known A chinke in a wall is spied and mended but the beginning vsually vnknown When the Scribes and Pharises had corrupted religion what bookes doe we reade to be written against them How able were Ioseph Simeon Marie Anna c. to confute them Falshood is falshood though no man write against it And therefore let the doctrine of poperie he sifted whether it be sound or no and the beginning let goe of which yet you see what I haue said M. Sonne you haue said much and still I wish that one of vs would heare another more then we do I see I see it is profitable god hath commaunded meanes and liketh meanes S. Mother many a good man and woman that nowe liueth in ignorance woulde heare and reade but that they are so terrified in holes and corners by false charmers vnder the paine of excommunication not to doe it nor to conferre with any Yea they are often snared with an oath not to doe it and all to keepe them in darknesse because the hooded hauke is quietest and Sampson when his eies be out may be mocked and vsed at will but the Lord is able to touch his peoples hearts to thinke of their craft and cast from them such deceitfull workes which I beseech him to doe euen with speede For the impietie and boldnesse of these wicked charmers is great and worthily reprooued by S. Hierome who saith of some in his time that they did tantam sibi assumere authoritateÌ„ in Esai l. 9. c. 3. vt siue dextra docerent siue sinistra id est siue bona siue malanolint discipulos ratione discutere sed se praecessores sequi some did take such autority vpon them that whether they taught right or wrong good or badde they would not haue their auditours to examine it but to followe them M. Yea but it is a great matter sonne in our eyes that the Church of Rome hath alwaies beene a visible state maintaining that doctrine visible I say and still appearing and knowne whereas your church before Luthers time either was not at all or was hidde as some say and your doctrine not receiued by publike authoritie S. But good mother you know trueth is trueth although the whole world were set against it And therefore still I wish your eye bent not vpon the fauour of the world for that is commonly against the good and for the badde but vpon the face of almightie God his good pleasure and the rule thereof his worde And then for answere to this obiected which seemeth so strong a bulwarke in the iudgement of many Papists â—â—e â— church 〈◊〉 nor alwaies â—â—sible first I say that the true church is not alwaies visible in the worlde as they take visible that is glorious in credit and fauour supported by authority of worldly powers so that all people may know whether to resort vnto it For the Church is either Catholike 1. vniuersall or particular The Catholike or vniuersall church cannot be seene and therfore we beleeue it as an article of our faith Credo sanctam ecclesiam Catholicam Symb. Apost I beleeue that there is an holy Catholike Church not as some would haue it I giue credit to the church and beleeue what soeuer it teacheth for then it should be Credo Ecclesiae not Credo Ecclesiam Sentent l. 3. distinct 2â— There is great difference saith P. Lumbard following S. Austen betwixt Credere Deum Credere Deo and Creaere in Deum the first is to beleeue that there is a God the second to giue credance vnto God and to beleeue all that tâ—u which he speaketh the third to rely vpon god and to put our confidence in him for protection and blessing So doubtlesse may I say that there is an apparent difference betwixt Credere Ecclesiam Catholicam Credere Ecclesiae Caetholicae and Creaere in Ecclesiam Catholicam the first is to be assuredly perswaded and to beleeue that there is a Catholike Church which is the meaning of the article as the very phrase of speach sheweth and the other articles following Credo communionem Sanctorum I beleeue that there is a communion of Saints Credo remissionem peccatoruÌ„ I beleeue that there is a remission of sinnes Credo carnis resurrectionem I beleeue that there is a resurrection of the flesh c. The second Credere Ecclesiae catholicae is to giue credit vnto the Catholike Church and to embrace as trueth whatsoeuer the Church shall propound vnto vs which can not be the sense of the article except we will both confound these two phrases Credere Eccslesiam and Credere Ecclesiae so accurately distinguished by the master of the sentences and S. Augustin and make the wordes of men equall with Gods word The third Credere in Ecclesiam Catholicam is wholly to depend vpon the Catholike Church which we cannot make the sense of the article without violence to the wordes and great blasphemie to God Thus much by the way and by your gentle patience good mother of this article and the true meaning of it in generall because the mistaking thereof hath misled some into errour Now to returne seeing we beleeue the vniuersall or Catholike Church it followeth that it can not be seene â—eb 11.1 For faith as the Apostle writeth is the ground of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seene Not seene I say againe and intreat you to marke the worde And that a particular Church is not alwaies seene the storie of Elias prooueth pregnantly who could not see one and therefore was wery of his life â—ing 19.18 whereas God had kept vnto himselfe euen then when he complained and in that place where he liued yea in the middest of that people of whome he complained 7000. that had not bowed their knees vnto Ball. What may we thinke of these 7000. among the tenne trikes of Israel were they not Gods people worshipping him in spirit and in truth or is not the nuÌ„ber sufficiet to make a church Surely the number might well make seuen glorious particular Churches Rom. 1â— and the Apostle saieth of them first that God had kept them to himselfe secondly that they were his people thirdly that he knewe them before to wit in his eternall councell and almighty God himselfe to his prophet acknowledged them as his beloued and promised his protection vnto them that they should be safely kept Reasons 1. Reg. c. 19 1â—.17 18. I suppose sufficient both for number and weight to prooue that God had his church in that place and at that selfe same time when where the prophet Elias complained for want of a Church and fellowe members to worship God with him O if so many so deare vnto god at one time in one countrie worshipping the true God truly by the testimony of
God himselfe were hidde from so great a Prophet why may we not thinke that in the many mightie nations of Christendome there haue indeede beene many thousands more belonging to God then the eie of any man could discerne S. Augustin saith Aliquando in sola domo Noah Ecclesia erat â—â—l 128. in solo Lot domo eius Ecclesia erat in solo Enoch Ecclesia erat Sometimes the Church was onely in Noah his house sometime in Abraham alone sometime in Lot alone and his house sometime onely in Enoch Therefore neither a particular church is euer so visible as papists would make it wheÌ„ it lieth hidden sometimes in one house sometimes in one man Assuredly S. Augustin was farre from that opinion when he wrot thus â—nit Eccl. c3 c. 16. asch c. 14. Looke therefore howe Christ was knowen when he was vpon earth so is his Church namely by the worde not by the outwarde Pompe and shewe Shee cannot be hidde from those that still diligently seeke her in the scriptures where onely I say againe the certaine knowledge of her is to be found â—al 10. Neuerthelesse shee is compared by S. Augustin and many more to the moone which is often hidde and he acknowledgeth that shee may be so secret that the members know not one another Persecutions haue bin so great that the world sawe not for a long time together such an outward shewe â—â—g de bapâ—â— cont Doâ— l. 6. c. 4. as Popery speaketh of Dioclesian and Maximinian boasted that they had vtterly abolished the superstition of Christ as they call it and name of Christians The like diuelish boasting made Nero in his time where was then this visible face of the Church so glorious that notable place of the Apostle what shall we say to it They were tried by mockings Heb. 11.36 c. and scourgings yea moreouer by boÌ„des and imprisonment they were stoned they were hewen a sunder they were tempted they were slaine with the sword they wandred vp and downe in sheepe skinnes and in goat skins beeing destitute afflicted and tormented whoÌ„e the world was not worthy of they wandred in wildernesses and mountaines and dennes caues of the earth Were not these the childreÌ„ of God were not these the Church what outward pompe had these men in the worlde to mooue others ledde by such inducements to resort vnto them O folly therefore to dreame of any such thing Howe differeth it from that errour of the disciples exspecting an earthly kingdome of their master and worldly preferments for themselues That vision of the woman forced to flie into the wildernesse to avoide the rage of antichrist Apoc. 1â— doth it not convince my conscience that the Church is hidde sometimes from mens eies Howe can that Church be saide to flie into the wildernesse which hath alwaies a visible face a visible place a visible grace and glorie a great companie of fauourers might power authority c. were not Christ and his followers on earth the Church had they any such shewe Nay they were poore base and not regarded in comparison of the Scribes Pharisees high priests and that rabble You shall be hated of all men for my sake c saith our Sauiour of his Church and is this to be visible euer in the world in manner and forme now often mentioned who seeth not that it is farre from it And thus I hope I haue sufficiently cleared this first point that the Church is not alwaies visible as they meane visible which may suffice for answer to this vaine obiection of theirs as vtterly ouerthrowing the ground thereof yet I answere further first to their Church that no Romish Catholicke liuing and I pray you consider well what I say shall euer be able to prooue that there was any visible Church for fiue or sixe hundred yeares after Christ which maintained all or the cheife points of popery wherein they differ from vs. Then for our Church we truely affirme that it was long before Luther euen in the primitiue Church For we stand vpon this that we embrace and professe onely that doctrine which springeth as the water of life out of the sanctuarie that is out of the writings of the prophets and Apostles and therefore that our Church doth not differ saue that in degree of excellency from those famous churches planted and watered by the Apostles themselues which shall yet more manifestly appeare by the doctrine it selfe duly considered the main points whereof as hath been already touched in another place are these 1. Concerning the morall lawe of God comprised in tenne precepts that it is the perfect rule of righteousnes wherein we see as in a Christall glasse both what we should doe and what we doe not and howe farre short we are of that obedience which is required at our handes by god 2. The doctrine of repentance that finding of our selues transgressoures of Gods diuine lawe and guiltie of his wrath wee should in due humilitie and contrition of heart throwe downe our selues at the throne of his grace and in the anguish of our soules confesse our iniquities and rebellions against our selues and euerie man say with the poore Publican God be mercifull to me a sinner 3. The doctrine of faith that trauelling thus and groaning vnder the burden of our sinnes wee should goe vnto our Sauiour for ease comfort and refreshing that is that we should steadfastly beleeue that he died for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification and eternall saluation â—om 4. 4. the doctrine of good workes and a godly life that we ought euer to bee carefull to abound in good workes and haue our conuersation in heauen 5. The doctrine of praier that we should in all our necessities call vpon God in the name of his sonne as our blessed Sauiour hath taught vs in the Gospell â—â—t 3. â—al 3. and especially that we should frequent the house of God by publike praier to speake vnto him and by his word to heare him speak vnto vs for instruction 6. The doctrine of the Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords supper 7. Lastly the twelve articles of our creede I beleeue in God c. These are the pillars and foundation of our religion yea the very soule and life of our Church and all of them founded grounded vpon the rocke Iesus Christ and his sacred word and without controuersie the very essence and beeing of all Churches that haue been euer or shall be to the ende of the world Wherefore when our aduersaries ask vs as they doe very often where was your church before Luther we may well answere as our Sauiour did in the Gospell by another question videlicet These points of doctrine before mentioned were they before Luthers time or no If they will ansvvere vs to this we vvill ansvver them yea they shall be forced to ansvver themselues that this doctrine is of god and from heauen and that there neuer vvanted some to professe
time of vengeance The Lord vvill giue thee a penny saith S. Austen though thou come but at the eleuenth hovvre but yet he hath not promised thee to live to the second hovvre noting the vncertainty of our life not to be presumed vpon one moment of an howre tu ergò quò quando vocaris veni thou therefore saith he come vvhither thou art called and vvhen thou art called come come without any longer stay or any moe ifs and ands or consultations with flesh and blood It is thy God that calleth who allowed not him to goe bury his father or to salute his friendes that sought that delay but required forthwith Follow thou me Zacheus when the Lord said vnto him come dovvne for I will dine with thee came dovvne hastely and receiued him ioyfully which God in mercy make vs euer to doe Whose image and superscription is vpon you euen vpon your bodie and vpon your soule is it not Gods ô giue then vnto God that which is Gods your owne selfe to your own sweete and good God and see the comfort of it Lord strengthen Lord help for thy sonnes sake M. Amen sonne and god giue satisfaction in our consciences euer to choose what is right in his eyes For conscience is truely called the bird in my breast that would not be troubled S. True satisfaction of conscience mother is a good thing and euer to be laboured for But I beseech you marke howe greatly this word is abused when fancy and will are called conscience Now a daies let it be asked of any recusant as we call them why he or shee goeth not to Church the common answere is forsooth my conscience will not let me or It is my conscience c as though euery toy that I take in my head were by and by conscience Aske them further why their conscience will not let them either they cannot or will not answere but thinke they haue said enough when they haue named once the word Conscience Alas we knowe that true conscience hath a ground and reason out of Gods word as when I say my conscience will not suffer me to kill a man and you aske me why I readily answere because it is written Thou shalt not kill and so in all other matters forbidden disalowed by almightie God which if they could doe either in this matter of comming to Church or in any other point of obedience commanded by her Maiestie and the lawe of this land then might they talke of conscience and make scruple with authoritie because we must obey God rather then man But this beeing not so forasmuch as nothing is inioyned them that is contrarie to the worde therefore this conscience of theirs is but fancy wilfull obstinacy and disobedience which the Lord will punish for we are plainely taught that euerie soule ought to be subiect to the higher powers there is no power but of God m. 13 1â— and the powers that be are ordained of God and they that resist shall receiue to themselues damnation all beeing bound to be subiect not for feare of wrath onely but also for conscience sake For humane lawes enacted of things that be good in themselues that is commaunded of God properly are not humane but diuine lawes and therefore binde conscience not because they were enacted by man but because they were first made by God men beeing no more but instruments and ministers in his name to reviue renewe and put in execution such precepts and lawes as prescribe the worship of God standing in the practise of true religion and vertue and the man or woman that breaks such lawes sinneth two waies first because he breakes that which in nature and conscience is the lawe of God secondly because in disobeying his lawfull magistrate he disobeyeth the generall commandement of God touching magistrats M. You wil haue coÌ„science then euer grouÌ„ded vpon Gods word S. Yf it be a right conscience I say it must needes be so For it is called Conscientia quasi cum scientiâ or as some thinke quasicordis scientia as if you should say with science and knowledge or the knowledge of the heart Now true knowledge what pleaseth or displeaseth God must needes be out of his word because therein onely his will is manifested vnto vs Againe the actions of the conscience saith the Apostle are in accusing and excusing which needes must haue relation to the word For how can conscience iustly accuse me but because the thing I doe is condemned of God or howe can it excuse me but because my deedes by gods worde which is his will are iustifiable Conscience therefore without direction of gods word cannot giue true iudgement either to iustification or condemnation Whatsoeuer therefore is done with an erroneous conscience we see plainely is sinne for euill remaineth euill though conscience say the contrary a thousand times and so doth good remaine good As if a man come into an house in the darke where many thinges are out of order which yet for the darkenesse he seeth not to be so are they not therfore out of order because he seeth them not The like may be saide on the other side where all things are passing well and yet he seeth it not Conscience therefore is a guid to me and the word of God a guide to my conscience which if it were marked and grounded in our hearts o how would we tremble to be so ignorant of Gods word as often we are and to doe as we doe and say as we say This makes vs to runne headlong with good intents whereas no good intention is sufficient to make any worke good vnlesse withal conscience approoue my action which it can neuer rightly doe but by giuing iudgement that God approoueth it This makes vs bolde to worship God with mans inuentions â—ay 29. â—3 â—ark 7.7 not considering that such deuises are meere sinnes because conscience cannot say of them according to her rule that they please God Finally as one saith with a godly desire to awake vs. This maketh mans life flowe euen with a sea of offences against God men commonly thinking that if they keepe themselues from periury blasphemy murder theft whordome all is well with them But the trueth is so long as they liue in ignorance they want true and right direction out of Gods word and therefore their best actions are sinnes euen their eating and drinking their sleeping and waking their buying and selling their speech and sileÌ„ce yea their praying seruing of God For they doe these actions either of custome or example or necessity as beasts doe and not of faith because they knowe not gods will touching things to be done or left vndone Wherefore the due coÌ„sideration hereof should make euery man most carefull to seeke for knowlede of Gods word and daily to increase in it that he may in all his affaires haue gods lawes to be the men of his councell that he may giue heede to them as to a lantarne