Lord. Answere I Am offended in zeale of Gods 〈◊〉 agaynst your generall doctrine wheâ—of this is a part that none may teach the truth but y illuminat â—lders Your HN. further sayth Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deâ—eitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination or riches of theire own knowledge out â—f their learnednes of the scriptures bâ—ing forth institute prâ—ach and teaâ—h c. Now looke wel and behold whether HN. condemne not all others but his illumined Elders who are Godded with God c. which in dâ—ede I haue rightly tearmeâ— proud speaches such as neuer any godly wryter in Christ his church durst euer speake or write â—ou would colour the wordes by the ducth tongue saying they be not straÌ„ge speches in that language but certainly a strange and monsterous doctrine is therby taught and far disagreeing from the written word and far â—nbeseeming any Christian. And here if I should dilate what a meaning you haue in these wordes Godded with God I should increase this treatise ouer much yet I will somewhat touch it as you and your Author haue expressed it in wryting I will vse your own speach as followeth See and marke my beloued in the beginning when God had made all things well thâ— was the Lord one Lord of his kingdome and one God of his worke and there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one â–ª and had in all one ordeâ— beinâ— â–ª â—nd nature For God was all that the man was and the mâ— was all that God wâ—â— Thus monstrously and blasphemously you haue taught god and man to be one in nature now compare this godhead with God or incorporated to God and easily it is perceiued that you meane God and man to be one this were worthye to be buryed in silence but that now the patrons defeÌ„d such blasphemies it is tyme to cleare the Church of Christ that such proude and Luciferian voyces shoulde not bee heard or once named yet this man will proue that HN. cannot erre and none that know the truth can condeÌ„ne HN. It is a pitiful thing that men hauing anye sence or feeling of God or godlines should so vaynely wryte or publish to y world such absurd horrible doctrine neuer heard of before and yet the Aucthor must needes be a prophet and his doctrine to proceede from the Lord nowe in despising thys and the like proud speach of HN of necessitie I am counted to despise y Lord thus still you drawe HN. hys matters that who so speaketh or wryteth agaynst hym be wryteth and speaketh agaynst God whether will you exalt your Auâ—thor ye vnbeleuers surely aboue all that is called God but wyth your father you will be cast headlong so low where to late you may bewaâ—l your contempt of God and godlinesse looke in tyme to this and the like part of your doctrine oh ye Ipocrites Vitell. FOr asmuch as the Lord hath seen it for good to bryng foorth hys most holy seruice of loue in the duch language although it seeme grosse and barbarous to you so shall it from henceforth be counted a language amoÌ„g those languages wherin the Lord hath erected his law and the priestes office thereof and the seruice of the beliefe with hys priests office Like maner shall the most holy seruice of loue be brought foorth through the Lorde hys elected minister HN. with his priests office where through the Lorde will receaue all men in mercy whiche humble them vnto hys word of grace according to the requiring of hys lawe and ordinaunces be erected and remayne from generation to generation for euermore for loue peace and righteousnesse shall remayne in eueâ—lalastingnes Aunswere THe Dutch language must nowe be accounted amongst those learned tongues wherein the law and gospell were written and this he auoucheth the Lord hath seene it for good that it shal be euen so you now take your authors office in hande For you Prophesye that from hencefourth this shall come to pas the law the seruice of the beliefe and the Priestes office must be brought forth in y Dutch Language I cannot but say notwithstanding your false Prophesye that the Dutch Language you vse especially in such straunge inuented wordes and confused compositioÌ„ is barbarous sith that â—â—rtayne other of your bookes that haue learned to speake latine a toung by nature propriety plaine copious and eloquent are also new fangled in name and barbarous in phrase of purpose to be blasphemous in doctrine which you nor any of your Familyâ— haue as yet as I thinke translated they want a certayn father and therefore haue no certayn names but borrowed as Theologica Germanica Augustinus Elutherius c. Their new deuised latin wordes are such as Aegoitas Ipsietas c. Their doctrine is that Adam is nothing els but vetus homo and Christus is nothing els but Nouus homo The history of Christ his birth hys miracles passion death resurrection c. they regard not but allegor is vppon euery part thereof most daungerously and vngodly teachingâ— vncertayne significations without coÌ„â—ort making no accompt of the history Confidently to beleue the truth of the history they say is to abide in the letter which killeth Those bookes contaynâ— playne doctrine which the Libertynes hold and also the doctrine of perfection whiche you hold to be in this life â–ª but especially this principle that when this perfection whiche you dreame of is come to the man then is he illuminate and deiffied and God in him hominified so that in all his actions wordes and thoughtes he can no more coÌ„mit sinne or anye euill then God or Christ can commit sinne or euill the reason is rendred because God or Christ dwelleth in the man and hath thâ— gouernment of all hys actions thoughtes c. And when ye are pressed in conference to shewe that man thus hauing Christ dwelling in him if he at any tyme doe bring foorth any euill that in resemblaunce maâ— appeare as sinnes they are not so to beâ— accompted of say you because Christ dwelleth in the man which doctrine is wicked false and diuelish as I haue often tolde your fellowes in other places Christ dwelleth in vs by the participation of his holye spirite and guydeth our actions els should wee haue no strength to resiste sathan or flesh nor the intisements of the world but taketh not away thereby our humayne imperfections but he keepeth lustes and all wickednes that they raigne not ouer vs or rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs yet wee ceasse not to be sinners or commit sinne that is your owne doctrine but hath no foundation or warrant in the worde Other bookes also are of such lyke name and doctrine as Elidad and Fidelitas whereof I fearâ— me that you were the traÌ„slator The doctrin wherof I meane not to touch in this place onely this is to be noted that the parties
illuminate Elders in the Family sinne not you deny it not but wish y I knew what I sayd you say that they preuayl with God ouer sinne But we deny that any preuayle with God ouer sin otherwise then in the person of Christ. And herein you teach false docâ—rine to the people For your wordes are false that we preuaile with God and Christ ouer sinne Nay we affirme that we preuaile with God by Christ which accepteth vs for his sake and although you acknowledge neuer so much that this is brought to passe by Christ in vs yet we tell you playne that it standeth not with his good will and pleasure so to do but that contynually we should be petitioners to him for grace to keep vnder sinne that sinne raigne not in vs that sinne beare not rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs as the Scriptures vse to spâ—ake but that we preuayle against sinne so that we extinguish it in our own persons It is a doctrine of Sathan and not froÌ„ the lord In this and the like doctrine doth your Author and you shew a manifest pâ—oofe whence your errors are suckt euen from the Pope who teacheth that we may fulfill the law If it be so then may we be righteous by it and haue no neede of christ Such hereticall and imptous doctrine contrary to the scriptures you teach and therfore your Author and you worthely despysed The Pope in his doctrine of Opera superâ—◠〈◊〉 and you with your doctrine of perfection to be wrought in vs in this life do so extenuat the death and passion of our Lord and Sauyour Christ that the poore oppressed burthened sinner loaden and â—roning vnder the burthen of sinne can finde smal comfort Therfore the church of christ grounded vpon the Prophetes and Apostles Christ Iesus being the chiefe corner stone of this foundation doubt not in truth and humilitie of spirite to acknowledge still iâ— vs while we are in this life a battaile or combat against sinne to striue to fight but not to conquere to tryumph or to preuayle but by faith in Christ in whose person we conquere we tryumph and we preuayle So that to be ouercome or be subdued vnder sin we cannot because we haue a valiant and most victorious conqueror who still imputeth his conquest and victory ours yet so as sinne and the motions therof still remayn in â—s to our great exercise that feeling our wâ—â—knes our want and our need we â—ight in our necessitye haue recâ—â—se vnto our Captayn our Sauyour and delyuerer But that we in our persons should pâ—euayle 〈◊〉 sinne as you affirmed is false wicked and damnable doctrine but such fauour hath falsed with you that you greedely embrace this as though Christ or his Apostles had taught it whereas it is against all the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and against all examples in the scriptures David sayth 〈…〉 S. Paul sayth Christ Iesus came into y world to saue sinners of y which number I am the greatest if doing our best we must acknowledge our selues vnprofitable seruauntes where is become your doctrine of perfection neuer heard of in Christ his Church our â—umayne state and condition is so lifted vp and stast with pride by your doctrine of perfection that penitent sinners find smal grace in whom you impute scarce hope of saluation except they attayne the perfection on whome shall Christ hys death take place to whome shal the vertue thereof extend if none shal be saued but such as be perfect in whome no sinne resteth or remayneth you take away all comfort from sinners to whome the Gospell belongeth and our onely comfort in distresse the effect wherof by this your doctrine is denied miserably do you herein deceaue your setuâ—s and other They that haue pleasure in sinnâ— are seruaunts to sinne as you affirme but to haue pleasure in sinne that sinn raygne in vs or haue dominion ouer vs continually we affirme that they are markeâ— and tokens not of the children of good but contrary yet we doubt not to â—â—â—irme the remnants the motions lustâ— and roÌ„cupiscence incident to our frayle nature still to lurke in our bodyes notwithstanding we be in the fauour with God and made righteous by Christ his death and passion for so it standeth with his good wil and pleasure that his grace should be made perfect through our weaknes Therefore you with your doctrine of perfection doe extenuate his death as much as in you lyeth We are not in humbling our selues enemies vnto y lord but you by exalting your selues except ye repent will be taken enemies both to God and all good men Your schollers in the Family doe blame vs in their wrytings affirme that we in confessing our imperfections â–ª and sinnes which contynually doe assault vs dayly and hourely We are as they say â–ª Aduocates for sinue and you teaching a perfection are mainteners of righteousnes but more truely may it be sayd of you that you with your perfection are enemies to y grace of God manifest to vs by Christ Iesuâ— our Lord and do thereby blaspheme as much as in you lyeth the glory of hys passion and death appropriate only to sinners you may with the pharasies brag of your perfection and obseruation of the law but we comfort ourselues with these and the lyke sayings of holy Scripture Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners So God loued the world that he gaue his onely begotteÌ„ sonne c Behold the lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world c. Vitell. FArther you say they may ioyne with any congregatioÌ„ or Church and liue vnder the obedience of any Maiestrâ—te It is true we are obedient vnto all Maiestrates where wee dwell for â—he peaces cause and obserue their politick ordinances which are to a good protectioÌ„ of their subiectes â—â—d the land but we consent not vnto any thing which is agaynst God or hys commaundements also we accompâ— none vngodly but such aâ— obstiâ—atly blaspheme the Lord hys ordiâ—â—unces and despise his most holy seruice of loue although they be ignoraunt of the waye vnto lyfe For we confesse that there is no man righteousnes vntill the Lord deliuer hym from his vnrighteousnesse and through hys Christ make hym righteous and then may he say that the Lord is hys righteousnes Aunswere THat you may ioyne with any Church c. I did affirme beyng led by many reasons so to do for you perswaded many in Queene Maries raigne to go to Masse your brethren in Flaunders which are of your Family do the lyke you also with vs come to Church and ioyne with vs in praier in â—euing thanks in heâ—ring the worde preached c. Yet hauâ— you priuate conuâ—ntickles and meetings forbidden by the law wherin you shewe not your obedience to the Maiestrates aâ— you affirme but your wilfull stubburnes and frowardnes you ioyne with all to wyne all but more iustly you flatter
with all to deceaue all How do you obserue the politik ordinaunce of the Maiestrate in printing your bookes and publishing them to the Queenes subiectes contrary to the law made in that behalf your obedience câ—nsisteth in wordes but not in 〈◊〉 â—hâ—refore with more truth you might saye we will not be obedient to Maiâ—strates In that you coÌ„descend â—oâ— iâ— anye thing contrary to God c. Therin you say well but I would you were found herein true of your promise for then your HN. and hys doctrine with hys prophesies should not haue such credit amoÌ„g you as appeareth if his doctrine be not directly agaynst the Lorde our God and hys commaundementes I apeale vnto the iudgement of all God his Children that shall reade these conferences You accompt none vngodly but such as blaspheme the Lord and despise his most holy seruice of loue Whome you accompt blasphemers before is declared iâ— any speake aagaynst your HN. or your Family of loue Ipso faâ—to he is a blasphemer then all the worlde which doe despise your Familye are blasphemers your conclusion must needes fall out euen so whereby appeareth what reuerent opinion you haue of any and of al that are not of your Family if you learned this of HN. consider better of it for very shame of y worldâ— if no reuereÌ„ce nor feare of God can moue you You confesse that there is no man righteous vntill the Lord deliuer him froÌ„ hys vnrighteousnes but howe we are deliuered you wee greatly vary we according vnto the holy Scripture do acknowledge Christ to be our righteousnes which he hath wrought perfectly in him selse which by fayth wee apply to our vnrighteousnes hys obedieÌ„ce his loue his pacience c. we by fayth apply to our disobedience to our hatred to our impacience c. all what was in Christ is made ours by grace yet still wee in our earthen vessels are coâ—rupt sinâ—ull and vâ—yde oâ— anye suche vertues as the law requireth But â—ou on the contrarye affirme that by Christ working in vs by hys spirite we are made righteous and so clensed from our vnrighteousnes that we are chaunged into hys perfection so that in all our actions wordes and thoughts nothing can â—low oâ— pâ—ocâ—ede from vs but sucâ—e as procâ—ede â—rom Christ because we are guyded by the same spirite but whether you or wee speake truth let the holy Scriptures beare witnesse then may be say that the Lord is his righteousnes it is very true but how and in what manner the Lord may be sayd to be our righteousnes is to be vnderstoode we acknowledge y hee in hys owne person is our righteousnes and sanctificatioÌ„ but you will haue hys righteousnes wrought in you by his spirtie the difference coÌ„sisteth in the maâ—er we acknowledge in him all strength all piety all obedience and in our selues all weakenes all vngodlinesse and all disobedience but you will needes haue all in all to be in vs whiche to much blemisheth hys glory and triumph if we shoulde also in our persons triumph our triumph standeth not in doing but in beleeuing in him which did Therefore as you haue charged vs wrongfully to be aduocats for sinne so may we rightly call yâ—u Patrons for our corrupt rotten and earthen vessels Vitell. MOre you are offended at the confession of the Familye of Loue vnderstand the matter well that there is no man coÌ„pelled therevnto but if any one be wounded or trobled in his coÌ„science then he may to his coÌ„fort make his euel thoughts or els what manifest vnto a priest or Elder aâ—cording vnto the counsell of the holy scripture Also I thinke it is an ordinauÌ„ce in the Church of England that if any one be troubled in minde he shall come and aske counsell of the person or minister and I thinke he must then make manifest his thoughtes c. And the Catholiâ—k ReligioÌ„ holdeth thought word and deede but there are many that will compell men to deâ—lare their thoughts â–ª whiâ—h 〈◊〉 nâ—â—ther pâ—iestes nor Ministers of the â—ord Aunswere TOuching your coÌ„fessioÌ„ which â—ou acknowledge to be voluntary and not coaâ—ted I haue signified my dislyking your Auâ—thor HN. doâ—h say it is expedient that they of his Familye make maniâ—est all that hath bin coÌ„mitted both what it is wherevnto our nature draweth vs vnto here it apppeareth â–ª if you follow your Author directly he leueth the matter not so voluntary as of necessitye And this must be done as you say vnto a pâ—iest or Elder to please the Papitles I thinke you haue added this worde priest but we tell you that such manner of confession the scriptures allow not of if any be wounded in conscieÌ„ce he may to his comfort repayre to any godly or learned preacher â—o shew his griefe and to receaue counsell and comfort to his consolation by the scripture agaynst the prick of conscience or the law which troubleth many miÌ„s mindes but that of necessitye he must make manifest all thoughts all what our nature doth incline vnto there is no warrant what ordinaunce is in the Church of England you haue not shewed but that he must of necessitye make manifest his thoughts it is vntrue it is left frâ—â— onely by way of perswasion men are moued to repaire in such extremitye to their learned and godly pastors and by no ordinaunce but this appeareth that you accompt not your selfe as any member of this Church of England no maruell for you holde it more safe to professe HN. his Familye then to be an obedient child of Christ his Church Whereof England is a speciall part What the Catholick religion holdeth touching confession is no cloke to shaddow your dealinges with all for we tell both you and them that such a confession as both you and they hold is not agrâ—eing with trueth The Papistes vrge men and accompt them heretickes that deny it and you hold it as an expedient thinge neither haue you both any warrant so to doe Some doe compell men to declare their thoughtes which are neither priestes nor ministers as you affirme who they are you tell vs not yet I suppose you meane the coÌ„missioners who â—xamining your Familye touching their fayth and doctrine found them so suttle by your instructioÌ„s that in y end they required theÌ„ to declare their knowledge what they thought of their Author HN. and I thinke the Magistrate authorised by the Prince may in such cases require vs to maniâ—est what opinion we haue of any Author or what we thinke of him but you haue taught them to say we know him not and therefore to commend him or discommend him wee may not such sleightes you deuise wheÌ„ the Magistrats requireth a trueth at your handes and here is also declared your obedieÌ„ce to rulers your Elders are safe when the poore country people are brought before the Magistrates but when will any of you the â—lders come voluntarily and defend your doctrine and proue it good by souÌ„d argumeÌ„t it
which only depende on reuelations And you which brag of your Author which is as he sayeâ—h taught froÌ„ god his own mouth hath hard y souÌ„d of his voice Thus miserably are you carâ—ed away by illusioÌ„s herin you deceiue your selues and many others Out of the wisdome of the flesh sprange all Christopher Vitelles â—rrors Note I pray thee Reader that this Libeller acknowledgeth to haue bin in him many errors comprehended in this word â—all and anonâ— thou shall finde him saying he was in no error In deede the church of Christ hath felt to much expeâ—â—ence of your heretâ—call head fraught full of heresies so that if any newer deuice should by Sathan be stirred vp you are as apte an instrument to broach the same as any that I know in England From no other mans bookes did this man sucke his errors and were you in error theÌ„ and by the same meanes may you not still remayne in error haue you any further priuiledge now then you had before Of necessity you must sly vnto your perfection that you cannot erre nor sinne there is no ether excuse to be had here is a mistery For you thinke it an absurde thing that your errors spâ—ang from any other fountaine then the flesh of sinne No bookes no conference were meanes to bring you to this â—rroâ— Loâ—ke well into your selfe and you shall fiâ—de in â—ou now more errors and heâ— esiâ—s then euer you held heretofore â—ou imagined your selfe cleansed and your hâ—use swept but now are sâ—uen morse spirites entered into you as appâ—areth by your doctrin and you are become ten solde the child of destruction more now thâ—n beâ—â—râ— And except you repent your ende will be far worse then your beginning Vitell. NEither â—an I blame any man for minâ— own sinnes were gâ—eater and horribleâ— in my sight â–ª then all other menneâ— for although I had â—ed certayne bookes of sundry wryteâ—s yet was I moued to seaâ—â—h â—hether they were grounded vpon the Loâ—ds promyses or no and humbling my selfâ— befoâ—e the Loâ—d aâ— desiâ—ous to doe his will â—o gaue he me to vndeâ—stand that I knew nothing of all his wayeâ— but the troble that I â—as in whereout the Lord delyueâ—ed me â—s not to be expâ—â—ssed And iâ— the Loâ—d of his goodnes had not comfâ—rted me with his holy spiâ—ite through hiâ— most holy seruice of his loue broght forth through HN. his elected minister I should haue remained without hope of life Answere NOw commeth this Vitell to declare a tragedy of himself which no man can gaâ—nsay being a thing secret and vnknowen to the world For our secret conflictes are troublesome I graunt when our conscience shall pres vs with the greatenes of our sinnes but whether it were so or no who can controll him or els who will beleeue his own wordes speaking so many things contrary to truth already But I must certifie that this is a speciall point of practise in the Family that when any in conference doe require how they could so easily leaue the certainty of doctrine which once they earnestly imbraced then shall you heare them tell you of marueilous conflicts much trouble and veration of minde and could neuer attaine to any quietnes vntill by the doctrine of â—â— they found rest vnto their soules But may not this be an illusion of Sathan as otherwise being rightly examined for Sathan is so suttle that if he may get possession of any setled mindes who instructed in godlynes by the scriptures resist his perswasions and so coÌ„meth to conslict of minde in such troubles â–ª where Sathan â–ª by the Lord his permission preuayleth then worketh he in his a certayne security or peace and then they thinke all is well when indâ—de neuer in worse case then so captiued in Sathans tyranny Now this man when he hath set abroad some of his troubles you shall see how he was deliuered by which we may gather what marke he shootes at namely in all troubles and agonyes of minde all must resort to the seruice of Loue set forth by his elected Minister HN. For this man if he had not taken that course he had remained without hope of lyfe certaynly great is the honor wherewith they aduaunce this their priest and prophet aboue all that is called God but my hope is that with the blast of the Lord his mouth which he hath published in the scriptures he shall be confounded and ouerthrowne so low that the fall of him which so exalted himselfe shall be to the comfort of all the Lord his children for whose â—ake he now beginneth to maniâ—est this lying Prophet and will I hope rayse vp to his Church men of zelous mindes which will both write and speake agaynst this wicked man of sinne which is in such credit with deceaued people which the Lord in mercy spedely bring to passe to the glory of thy name the comfort of thy church and the spoyle of Sathan and his ympes Vitell. BVt he gaue me to vnderstande there through that he would be merâ—ifull vnto all penitent sinners how horrible sinnes soeuer they had coÌ„mitted therefore I may say a medicine master getteth gretest prayâ—e by those that haue the filthâ—est and corruptest diseaâ—es as a leprous person and such like â—uen so haue I the gretest cause to land the Lord and must confes that he whâ—ch is mighty hath done great things on me and holy is his name Answere NOw after this man hath shewed his conflict of minde and how he was delyuered through the seruice of loue ministred by HN. Now he telleth that by that same he vnderstood that God would be mercifull to al sinners and I pray you did you not know of this mercy but by HN Were you ignoraunt â—of the Scriptures before you came acquainted with him his bookes His mercy and compassion is plentifully declared in the gospell which it seemeth you were ignorant of This medicine mâ—ster HN. hath wrought a great cure vpon this man For as one of your schollers haue written in his defence He teacheth with power and it may be the power of Sathan which leadeth men into errors and heresies Although you imagine that this is wrought by the mighty hand of the Lord abusing the words of the â—anticle which the blessed virgine did set forth magnifying the name of y Lord thereby Touching your diseases which you count to be cured it is out of dout that you are more full of infirmities and desperate diseases then euer you were although you feele them not For a body that feeleth no sicknes yet infirme and weake is hard to be cured yea irrecuperable as Phisitions prescribe Looke therfore more rightly into your selfe and you that are so whole clene you shall finde matter of corruption in you whereupon the true Phisition of our soules Christ Iesus shall if you acknowledge your sicknes and infirmity worke therby such an alteration in you as heretofore you neuer had the lyke but if you stand
will not ioy nor rest in peace vntill all your errors be disclosed and â—ou and your fellowes be brought to â—umble your selues before the Lord without your HN. which the Lord bring spedely to passe Amen Vitell. NOw must I for want of tyme passe ouer and omit many thinges and submit my cause vnto the almighty desiring him of his goodnes for to try our cause in his ballaunâ—e of equitye euen with the Loue and trueth for so shall there then be expressed and testified by the light or Christ that Gods honour is declared with the Loues seruice most sincerely Aunswere THis Libel was not long enough but he muâ—â— oâ—â—t much matter and so as he sayth submit his cause vnto the almighty c. â—ut if you did as becoÌ„meth a true Christian you should not onely submit your cause vnto the Lord who in patience suâ—freth Ipocrites to trouble his Church but also submit your doctrine to be tryed and iudged by his holy word which is a iust iudge in all causes of controuersy For if your protestation shall be admitted without exception theÌ„ euill doers and blasphemers of God and Christ may haue liberty to referre their cause vnto the Lord but since almighty God hath in earth a knowen Church it is requisite that euery one being required should geue account of his fayth and hope as the scriptures doe teach you would haue your cause tryed in the ballaunce of equitye a truer ballance is not then his law which is without blot or wrinkle if you would abide the tryall thereof your doctrine and your patrone HN. should be found lighter then vanitye it selfe Where you adde with the Loue trueth the Loue you so often confound that you know not your selues the meaning thereof sometyme you wil signifie Christ by that name loue sometime a vertue procéeding sometyme a qualitye of the minde sometyme for the exercise which you priuately vse where to finde the exposition of this word Loue you leue it as vncertaine then it shall be expressed you say by the light or Christ that by you God his honor is declared with the Loues seruice sincerely here is Loue agayne ioyned with seruice which cannot meane as I thinke any thing â—lls but God his seruice I take it in the best part if you haue any other more secret misterye therein I leaue to your selues but touching any seruice you doe to God it is Ipocrysye so long as you serue him without Christ or with any other and Christ for he will admit no other to haue place in mens hartes but himselfe he made all he requireth all Vitell. OH what a dauÌ„gerous tyme is it presently in these last dayes and how vnrightly haue many vnregenerated men set vp themselues to geue iudgement with their good thinking For whatsoeuer euery one mindeth thinketh good and electeth â—ther falleth to that same prayseth and iudgeth he for the most best and for a righteousnes thereto also he wresteth the scripture according to his will for the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one euen as he is minded be it whatsoeuer to be high minded in pleasant lustes either to be debased in misery to be merâ—y or sorowfull with sighing either with thankes to be despised and persecuted or to persecute and despise one an other and many such lyke c. Answere OF the dauÌ„gerous tyme we are not ignorant of and more we tell you that you and your fellowes make the tyme much more daungerous and troublesome with your errors which HN. and you haue raysed vp Now you complayne that vnregenerat men haue set vp themselues you meane by vnregenerat men all others which are not illuminat nor deifâ—ed as your Elders are The children of God for whome Christ dyed whose names are written in the booke of lyfe are regenerate although as I haue sayd before you account none to be regenerat but such as haue no motions of sinne or sinne not but you say that the same vnregenerat men with their good thinking â–ª that same he prayseth and iudgeth for righteousnes but who might worse alledge the same then you who câ—mmâ—nd without reason or cause your Auâ—hor and his moÌ„strous doâ—trinâ— which hath in it such grosse absurdâ—â—yes and most contrary to God and his word and you are they that peâ—uert the scripture to set vp your Prophet and his doctrine and what is spoken of Christ doe you not wickedly apply the same to your HN. doe you not apply this place of Malarhy chap. 3. which our Sauiour Christ verefied to be propesied of Iohn behold I will send my messenger which shall prepare the way before me Againe Math. 11. he shall turne the hart of the Fathers to the children and the hartes of the children c. doe you not I say apply these places to signifye your HN. and that it is ment by him therefore there are none found such wresters of the scriptures as you And where as you affirme that the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one therein you shew what reuerence you haue vnto y same for although you such others do abuse the scripture contrary to y purpose of y holy ghost yet are the scriptures y wisedome of God reuealed to man and is a perfit law of righteousnes and not as you vngodly and vnreuerently tearme it seruiceable vnto euery one Your companions the Papistes haue as you doe called the scripture a nose of ware a shipmans hose c. but most wickedly and falsely to both your confusions it is the power of God vnto saluatioÌ„ Vnto them that beleue the sauour of lyfe vnto lyfe but vnto such as you are which so vnreuerently speake thereof it is the sauor of death vnto death the scriptures doe not maintayne pleasant lustes nor high mindes as you vnreuerently suppose but they are to comfort and lift vp the sorrowfull and broken mindes and to beate downe and correa the hauty and proud stomackes If vngodly men such as you are abuse them to other purposes the fault is in the persons not in the word Vitell. WHereunto euery one wresteth the scripture and defendeth his cause therewith insomuch that euery one thinketh that he for his part hath the most best Behold with such a misery is the man plagued such manner of good thinking and vnprofitable burthen hath he taken vpon him oh that we left all such and gaue ouer our vnderstanding captiue ether suffred it to be pluâ—kt vnder the obedience of the loue of Iesu Christ and followed after the coÌ„mon brotherly loue innocently or vndeceitfully and continued concordably in prayer vnto God â—l that God receiued vs to mercy released vs froÌ„ the sin of the ignorant knowledge and established his promise on vs to the laud prayse and honor of his holy name and to our saluation Aunswere YF euery one wrest the scripture where shall wee finde Christ his Church who is led by the spirite of trueth according to his promise thâ— greatest wresters of
them patience we beseech thee that they may abide whatsoeuer thy Maiestie hath determined so that euen in tormentes they may witnes thy holy name Graunt vs O Lord our God these our petitions or so many as are expedient for vs thy children for thy deere Sonne our Sauiour Iesus Christ his sake To whom with thee â–ª the holy Ghost be al honor praise glory dominion power for euer and euer Amen A short reply after the order of a proface By the meanes of certayne slaunderous wordes as followeth from C. V. THERE IS NOTHING more necessarye for the reedisying of God his Gospell in a common wealth then foâ— euery such vnto whome the Pastorall office is committed With all expedition to beate downe by the aucthoritye of the same word all vpstart heresies And opinions by the which the true Church and congregation Is disquiâ—tâ—d â–ª of lâ—te theâ—efore as one poore member of the same in a preface To the tituled worke agaynst those which are called the Familye of Loue liking tâ—eÌ„ to a Cormorant Fowle was for that I espied By the manner of writinges and imaginatiue prâ—ctise Somewhat slyly couered ouer as the Snake vnder the greene hearbe from their HN. an Onacratoluâ— câ—ept in this our natiue Countrye of EnglaÌ„d through simplicitye But rather I feare me hipocâ—isie to the bosomeâ— of many supposed wise men the more by the meanes of a second Mergus C. V. Whome heretofore by vttered vow at Paules Crosse â—ecanted as I thinke the same error which he now stiffely defendeth Neuerthelesse sithens which tyme Hath in coâ—ners drawen companyes togethers of the which sâ—me haue refâ—ained â–ª and others yet tâ—o many abidiâ—â— I thâ—refore somewhat to further the goodwil of the Author agaynst that Familye their error and not their pâ—â—sons and for the hopes sake which is layd vp in store through Iesus Christ our â—ord and Sauiâ—ur did by preface â–ª forewarne the vewers of the sayd bâ—oke to be heedefull of such so pestileÌ„t a sect who vnder the title of sundry senteÌ„ces of holy scriptuâ—â— Hâ—ue as in a maâ—â— knit fast through the webbe of the Spider Many â—ely â—lyes whose vnstable mindes more wauering theÌ„ such slender wings haue ben are and will be except the grace of God make them more heedefull so fast tangled that it will be scarce possible to pluck them out I doe once agayne euen as one greatly compelled make aunswere agaynst that which herein followeth by those wâ—ome I hoped their conuersion and not detection whose wordes haue sayd me to be Diueled with the Deuill I doe consider these wordes to bâ— sayd to me by the lyke intention as to my L. and maister Christ that he had Belâ—ebub the chiefe Deuill yet wâ—â—â—e â—â—ue And the reprouers false Their wordes This blasphamous Batman with his slaundering and lyâ—ng blasphemeth the holy Ghost for he nameth the Familye of Loue a Corniorant Fowle And an sereticall sect whereas notwithstanding there is 〈◊〉 Catholick Church nor comminasâ—ye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue And herein he condemneth the holy Scriptures the Lawe and the Prophets as also Christ and his Apostles Moreouer he sayth that the Lord his elected Minister HN. is of the seede of certayne sectaries â— Whereas his doctrine is altogether agaynst all Sectaries If it be blasphemy to reproue an error then haue I not done well if it be lying to detect a falshode I will reaunswere if slaundering them that slaunder other in one is the fault to this first God his worde doth teach me to defend his Church the Queenes Maiesties lawes her common wealth whereto my conscience aunswereth by the trueth that if you take not better heede you will fall from heresie to treason and so into contempt of your religion Of your loyaltye And true seruice of God of the which take heede for the holy Ghost is iudge betwixt vs both I doe name the Familye of Loue the selfe same as before till I doe perceaue you to be otherwise minded except you vse this policye That when your Religion will hold no longer you will then say we vnderstode not your mindes and so therereby exâ—use your follyes You say there is no Catholick Church nor comminaltye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue surely your loue is so secret if we vnderstand it not you much lesse perceaue it but in secluding all that be not of your Family What shall be sayd of all the godly in the world before your HN. whome now to culler doe call the holy name What say you of our gratious Queene Her noble Counsaile the leaâ—ned Byshopâ— And disâ—â—et preachers of the Lordes Gospell What thinke you of the excellent ouâ—ces both Oxford â–ª Cambridge from the which they are not now to learne of their true loue in god Of your HN. Neither of C. V. Who cunningly hath ioyned together that which we know Christ to be the ouâ—â—commer and C. Vitell the Ioyner to be bâ—t a deceiuer Your Argument must haue an Interâ—ection when you say He condemneth the holy Scriptures the lawe and the Prophetes all which three â—â—â—uerence loue and obâ—y â–ª by the Lord God his assistance you ad as also Christ and his Apostles is it enough to condemne any before the cause why â–ª your Vocatiue must haue a Datiue to your selfe be all these except you 〈◊〉 the greater heeâ—e I 〈◊〉 also vettrly deny your HN. Hâ—rry Niâ—holas to be the Lordes elected Minister â–ª otherwiâ—e then suâ—ferâ—d to peruert the congregation And also I say to you Chrisâ—opher Vitell 〈◊〉 you 〈…〉 and while there is yet tym◠〈…〉 to God whome in this â—tâ—r you hâ—ue greatly offended your Prince much aâ—used â–ª anâ— many your fellow disorderly 〈…〉 by your vngodly collections thorow which 〈…〉 you haue continued too long as to your ease you may thinke So to their payne it may be assured If now your doctrine be agaynst all Sectaryes Then be as good as your word and â—ly these errors â–ª els as weedes are cut of with sickle and sithe for hiâ—ting the good herbes so must euill membber from a common wealth Fare well Fidem fero mihi fama fuco An Aunswere to a wicked and infamous Libel made by one of the chiefe english Elders of the pretended Familie of Loue. Vitell. Testimonies of Sion of the â—â—st stone of fouâ—datioâ— layd therein of â—he iudgement and righteousnes and of the holy priesthood and spirituall oblation through Iesus Christâ— brought fourth through the Lordes â—lâ—câ—â—d minister HN. loue Trueth BLessed is he which watcheth for the day of the Lorde which shal come as a theefe in the night Math. 24.1 Thessa â–ª 5. Peter 3. For the tyme shall come that the watchmen vpon mount Ephraim shal crye come let vs goe vp vnto Sion to the Lord our god Iere. 31. Mich. 4. Zach. 8. Answere TO what purpose these places of holy scripture are collected I am ignoraunt of because they want dew explication we know that from Sion came the law of
God and righteousnes and truth from Ierusalem But it doth not follow that we knew not these testimonies but by HN. his ministerye before his new doctrine was broched the Church of Christ was not ignoraunt of that corner stone Christ Iesus of his holy priesthod of his holy sacrifice these thinges were truly understood and knoweÌ„ although HN. had neuer written Touching Christ his comming as a theefe we know it is ment of his second comming although you would gladly haue it to be the comming of HN. with his new blasphemyes The watchmeÌ„ vpon mount â—phraim are the teachers of Christ his Church of which number your HN. is none his cryes are from Flaunders and not from Sion You place two speciall vertues Loue and Truth as a face and â—ositenaunce to your doctrine but if wee should examine the same by the word of the Lord then your Loue is but pretenced For your Loue should be knowen by louing the Lord Iesus who loued vs first But the loue of HN. hath besotted your hartes who by his doctrine is enemy vnto our Lord Iesus who onely is to be beloued And for truth you onely vse the word barely without substauÌ„ce what trewth you vse in this your libell will appeare by reading to euery indifferent minde if your Loue and trueth be no better then is here expressed then I may well affirme that little Loue and small truth is to be found in this your libell Vitell. BEhold I ley in Sion a stone of foundation a proofe stone a costly corner stone to a fast foundation who so beleueth in him let him not hast For I will make the iudgement to a measure lyne â—nd the righteousnes a ballaunce Esa. 28. b. Luke â–ª â—0 b. Rom. 9. c â–ª Pet. â— â— A falsâ— ballance is abhomination vnto the Lord but a full weight pleaseth 〈◊〉 â—â—ll â–ª Prou. 11. â— A â—ight ballance â–ª and waight is of 〈◊〉 Lord â–ª and all powndeâ— in the sack â–ª are his workes Prou. 16. Should I sayth the Lord Iustifye the vnright ballance and the false waightes in the sacke wherethrough their rich men doe much vnright and their anhabitâ—untes deale with lyes and haue deceitful tongues in their throats Mich. 6. b. 〈◊〉 â–ª Therefore will I begin to plague you and make you desolate because of your sinnes Miche 6. Awake now all and repent and remember to be obedient vnto the law and commaundementes of the Lord to the end that ye in the day of the Lord be not found intangled or held captiue of your sinnes nor plagued with the plague of the vngodly Whosoeuer now in the 〈…〉 Lord will escape the plagues of the vngodly and bide preserued inâ—the godlynesâ— â–ª Let him beleve in Iesus Christâ—y eiâ—en asâ— the 〈◊〉 sayth and turne him about 〈…〉 of a childe and apply him to be obedient vnto the requiring of the word of Iesu Christ and of the doctrine of his lorâ— â–ª And so let euery one come and assemble him to the mount Sion to the cominaltyâ— of Saynteâ— and to the stone the fast foundatioÌ„ which is laid of God in Sion and build him thereon to a spirituall house in all loue and coÌ„cord and to an holy priesthod For to offer spirituall oblacioÌ„s which are acceptable vnto God through Iesus Christ. 1. Pet. 2. I through the grace of God which is geuen to me haue layd the foundation lyke a wise architect and an other buildeth thereon but let euery one take heed how he buildeth theron For an other foundation can no man ley then there is leyd which is Iesus Christ. 1. Con. chap. 3. b. This description of Sion my beloued haue I writteÌ„ 〈◊〉 geue thâ—â—by the louers of truth to vndâ—â—stand whether they have read any of the bokes of HN or noâ— which are named the most holy seruice of louâ— that the scriptures which the Lord hath set forth through his elected miâ—ist HN. are brought forth out of Sion according to the promises of the lord For it is written that the Lord will bring forth his loue out of Sion his word out of Ierusalem c. Also that the same HN â–ª hath taught all men to repaire to his mount Sion and builde thereon the which is in his works declared at large as is before rehersed Answere HEre is set down a large description of Sion of the corner stone foundation and many places of holy scripture heaped together but to no other end that can be perceiued but to amaze the Reader that your doctrine should thereby beare a face and countenaunce of trueth and come from Sion Ierusalem but we tel you truely that your new vpstart heresies with your new termes are not testimonies of Sion but from Bethell Dan Gilgall your masking shew is now discouered your vizards pluckt of Your painted words are opeÌ„ to the world your suttle â—leightes made manifest here are many places quoted but none applied If we shal assemble to SioÌ„ as you require then must we leue your HN. your Family For by Sion is vnderstood the doctrin of the prophets Apostles and Euangelistes from which the Lord assisting vs we will neuer depart and whatsoeuer doctrine may be proued by theseâ— we reuereÌ„tly embrace gladly receaue what doctrine soeuer is contrary here unto that we reiect cast of of which number the doctrine of HN. and his Familye are because it agreeth not with that Prophets Apostles nor Euangelistes You geue the louers of truth to vnderstand whether they haue red any câ— H N. his bookeâ— or not 〈◊〉 so that there may be â—onets of truth although they neuer red H N. nor his bookes as you grauÌ„te this vnto vs now so you will deny the same hereafter as shall appeare you would still haue vs beléeue that H N. teacheth no doctrine but builded vpon Syon as appeares by his workes his bookes are to be seene his doctrine is out of his own imaginatioÌ„ being deluded by an erroneus spirit to disquyet the Ioyfull proceedinge of Christ his gospell and to exercise his church according to this saying necessâ—â—st haereses esse c. It is necessary that heresies be c. There was neuer heresse in the world but would dispute argew and reason and deny no conference with any but this HN. thinketh it sufficient that he tell his Familye that he hath learned his doctrine by gods owne mouth and no man may speake against him nor his doctrine but by and by he is condemned for a blasphemer of the holy ghost So sharpe and quick are these Elders of the familye in iudgement it is tyme for you to helpe your decaying state with some face shew of wordes For your Familye doubt not doe espy your poysoned doctrine which lay hid from them vnder your darke speach and vnaccostomed phrases his workes declare his doctrine to come from his owneacute braine by illusion of Sathan and none geueth testimony of him but himselfe and you his deceiued