would haue had him to surrender the Empire And taking his Father prisoner he committed hym to straight custodie without anie motion of the Pope therevnto as with whome also he was at Variance Then as touching the Shearing or thrusting him into A Moâ—asterie or famishing of Henrie the fourth lette hym that made these shamefull lyes shewe his Authour and defende hym selfe Who Apolog. so ilfauouredlie and monstrouslie put the Emperour Frederikes necke vnder hys feete and as thoughe that were not suffyciente added further thys Texte out of the Psalmes Thou shalt goe vppon the Adder and Cockatrice and shalt tread the Lyon and Dragon vnder thy feete Who this should be Conf. 188 your selues can not tell whiche are the onelie mainteiners of the tale For sometymes ye laie it to Innocentius the thyrde sometymes to Innocentius the eyght sometymes to Alexander the thyrde And the fact being so strainge and singular that it coulde not be but notorious yet ye haue so litle certeintie thereof that ye knowe not who should haue done it But the trueth is no graue writer maketh any mention of such behauiour of the Pope The Emperour Theodosius 〈◊〉 as Socraâ—es sayth did not only sit emongs the Bishopes but also ordered the whole arguiâ—g of the cause Here you speake of sitting 〈…〉 as though Thâ—odâ—sius had then ben at some General Councel You speake also of ordering the whole arguing of the cause as though him selfe had ben a moderatour of some disputation The plaine storie is Hist. 〈◊〉 9 ca. 19 Theodosius conâ—erred familiarly in his owne palace with the Bishope of Constantinople howe his people might be brought to an vnitie in faith And when the heretikes refused one good way which was to be tried by the testimonies of Auncient Fathers he went an other waie to worke with theÌ„ whiche was that eche of them should bring furthe in writing that which he had to say for his faith Which being don the Emperour read ouer theyr writings aÌ„d reiected the ArriaÌ„s MacedoniaÌ„s and Eunomians heresies and embraced and commended the iudgement of the Nicene Councel touching the consubstantiality of God the Sonne with his Father So that this historie serueth nothing to the mater of a General Councel nor proueth that an Emperour may sit there as Iudge emong the Bishops nor that Theodosius did vpon his owne heade and as Supreme Gouernour that which Socrates here reporteth of him but that he folowed the Councel of his Bishope Nectarius and the former decrees of the Nicene Councel Iustinian put doun from theyr Papal Throne two Popes Apolog. Syluerius and Vigilius notwithstaÌ„ding thei were Peters successours and Christes Uicars No Conf. 3. it was not Iustinian but his Ladie Theodora which was a great mainteiner of heretikes and when women theyr husbandes being alyue be so ferueÌ„t in sprite that they must haue such Popes as please them selues no wounder if Peters Successours be shamefullie handeled Charles the greate being Emperour held a prouincial Councel in Germanie Apolog. for putting awaye Images contrary to the second Councel at Nice This is so false Confut. 327 that the contrarie is most true For whereas the heretikes named Imagebreakers Abbas Vrsper Anselm Ryd PeÌ„cerus Carion Pantalâ—o had holden a CouÌ„cel at Constantinople for abrogating of Images directly against this impietie of theyrs Pope Adrian and Charles the greate held an other Councell at Frankeford in Germanie So muche it lacketh that Charles the greate should be a fauourer of Imagebreakers The fourth Chapiter conteinyng the lies made vpon the Auncient Fathers and other VVriters S. Augustin Apolog. wheÌ„ he disputed against PetiliaÌ„ an heretik of the side of the Donatistes let not these words Aug. de vnitate Eccl. c 30 quod he be heard betwen vs I say or you say let vs rather speake in this wise thus sayth the Lord there let vs seeke the Church there let vs boult out the cause THe question betwene S. Augustine aÌ„d the Donatistes was this Conf. 29. wher the Church should be Now to proue that the Church was not with the Catholiks the Donatistes were busie alwaies in rehersing how the Catholikes had burned the holie bokes aÌ„d had offred incense to Idols and had persequuted InnoceÌ„tes like as the protestaÌ„tes in these daies wheÌ„ the questioÌ„ is of the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome thei vse to make a long tale how such a Pope was a NecromaÌ„cer and such a one a leacheroâ—s man and some other proude and ambitious Now although S. Augustine mighâ— and did also in sundry places say truelyâ— that the obiections of the Donatisteâ— were false Augu. de vnit Eccles ca. 2. IdeÌ„ lib. 2. coÌ„t epist. petil c. 8. and though he might brinâ— furth against them also greater examples of their faults yet considering thaâ— such oiections taken out of the euill life of the one side or the other doe not perteine to the question proponed And seeing that altercation and strife only waâ— mainteined thereby whiles eche partâ— would say â–ª the other lied and would noâ— ceasse to tell what they could one of thâ— other being not credited yet one of thâ— other S. Augustine therefore not desirous to chide but earnest to proue thâ— Churche to be on his side vseth thesâ— wordes De vnit Eccl. c. â— Let vs not heare This I saie or This thou saiest but let vs heare this saieth our Lord â–ª After which wordes these folowe whiche the Apologiâ— should not haue omitted Truly ther bâ— extant our Lordes bookes the authoritie of which we both do agree with al we both beleue we both serue and obey There let vs seeke the Church there vs boult out our cause For the Church it self to proue it selfe by her owne wordes is not conuenient And to credit her at the reporte and coÌ„meÌ„dation of a baser aÌ„d vnworthier witnes then her self is very dishonorable It remaineth therefore that her cause be examined by the Scriptures as whiche haue so great authority and are so generally receiued And truly it is exceading wel prouided of God that in theyr seueral causes the Church sâ—ould declare the scriptures and the scriptures the church And so wheÌ„ any maÌ„ beleueth the church and striueth with me vpon a text of the scripture I would say vnto him let vs haue no more these words I saie or you say but let vs heare rather this saieth the Church On the other side when one beleueth the scriptures as heretikes thinke they do and would reason with me about the Church where it should be I would answer Let not these wordes be hearâ— among vs I say or you say but let vs heare This saith the Scripture Therefore in this principall question betwene the Catholikes and the Donatists which was where the Church should be the best waye was only to appeale to Scriptures Againe the Donatistes admitteâ— the Scriptures but other thinges which S. Augustine alleaged out of laufull recordes either of the
came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal
at his first cuÌ„ming to England a Lutheran only but ê‘ceiuing afterwards the Superiour powers to fansie an other way he folowed also them with all the wit he had and became an open ZuiÌ„glian Again you do wel to resort to PriÌ„ces palacies for argument because in deede thence is your cheefest ayde and succour Let the Scripture saith S. Ambrose be asked the question Apolo let the apostles be asked let the Prophetes be asked Ergo we must vse no other force but only Scriptures It foloweth not Confuâ—tion 3. for after al them I may aske also what S. Ambrose himselfe thinketh vpon the Scripture Apostle or Prophete And wher as by many means one in order aboue an other a way is prepared to any knowledge the vsing of the chiefest must not exclude al the inferiour froÌ„ their places Again why hath M. Iewel stuffed his Reply with so many allegatioÌ„s of phrases of doctours and left it so void of expresse Scripture if no other force but of scriptures is to be vsed Christ is euer present Apolog. to assist his Churche Christ nedeth not any man to supply his roome No one mortal creature is able to coÌ„preheÌ„d in his mind al the parts of the world Ergo there neither is neither can be any one man which may haue the whole superioritie in the Church He is present in deede by his power Conf. 45. To the firste and truth and grace but to the external eye he is not preseÌ„t and sensible men require a sensible Gouernour Christ nedeth nothing To the. 2. yet for because of his wisdom aÌ„d mercy he coÌ„municateh his Office aÌ„d Glory with men aÌ„d doth not al thiÌ„gs iÌ„mediatly by himself although he be of suche almightines that he nedeth no helpe It is as false as God is true To the 3. For in dede the powers of the mind as the wil memory aÌ„d vnderstaÌ„ding are by nature of that making and capacitie that nothing vnder God himselfe can fully replenishe it Yet if one man alone were not hable by himself to coÌ„prehende in his mind al the parts of the world neuerthelesse by his officers he may doe it though the whole were as bigge againe as it is Last of al to stoppe your mouthes with feare whom reason doth not persuade ye may by these argumeÌ„ts pluck the Croune froÌ„ the heads of al Kings aÌ„d Princes For Gods prouideÌ„ce you may say is ouer the whole world And he nedeth no helper And no Prince is hable to coÌ„prehend in his mynd al parts of his Dominion how litle so euer it be The Bishop of Rome doth not his duty Apolo as he ought to doe Ergo we saye he ought not once to be called a Bishop or so much as an elder The persoÌ„ and the office which any ê‘son beareth are distinct things Confutâ—tion 5â— And the vocatioÌ„ of Bisshop or King is to be honorâ—d though the coÌ„ditioÌ„s of theÌ„ shuld be coÌ„teÌ„ptible for their lust and idlenes ScruaÌ„ts are coÌ„mauÌ„ded to obey their masters not only wheÌ„ they be good aÌ„d modest 1 Pet. 2. but also if they be froward And further what are you that iudge I wil not say an other maÌ„s seruaÌ„t but your own lauful head and Bishope And if yow refuse his Authoritie for your part why iudge you yet the Chiefe Bisshope of the Catholikes To be short if it shal be considered how greauous the Heretikes and Turkes aÌ„d vnruly Christians are to the Church of Christ and what hath ben done by Popes euen in our dayes for calling of a general CouÌ„cel and for defence of ChristendoÌ„ against the Infidels and for suppressing of euyll maners ther wil be litle occasion left to reproue the Pope for not doing his duty A wonderfull vncleanenesse of life maners hath followed vppon the lawe Apolog. which commauÌ„ded pristes to liue single Ergo mariage is holy honorable in all sorts stats of persoÌ„s it was no good lawe which did forbid priestes to mary This disproueth not the lawe Coufntation 78. but it betraieth the foule and corrupt inclinations of them for whome the lawe was made Without the Lawe synne was dead sayeth the Apostle And I had not knowen sayeth he what concupiscence had bene Rom. 7. except the law had sayd thou shalt not lust So is it in the actes of parlament which are wisely and profitably made for taking away the excesse and costlynes of apparel For Thou shalt weare no sylke sayth the lawe except thou mayst speÌ„d yerely by office or landes a certayne Somme And by this one wolde thinke that poore seruing men shoulde not spende so much in their apparel as before they did Lesse robbing then and filching must folowe and the common welth shall be quiet and rich But the euent declareth that it is bestowed now vpon the making of the cote that which is diminisshed in the sylke that shoulde go to the cote And superfluities are not diminished but increased and the mater of them is not taken away but the forme is altered Doe not therfore put any fault in an holy or gooâ— law if sinne â–ª by occasion therof should enâ—â—crease and multiply but reproueth the coneupiscence and lust of them which call not for the grace of God that they may be able to kepe the good law We affirme Apolog that Christ doth truely presently geue his owne selfe in his Sacramentes Ergo we meane not to abase the Lordes supper This doth not folow Conâ—ut 1â—9 For whereas the mind of Christ is that in the open house which he kepeth his owne pretious body should be geueÌ„ vnder form of bread and that so freely and bountifully that come who would either frind or foe he would not chaÌ„ge his word and gift for that mater although he wold haue a saying vnto theÌ„ that by their vnworthy receiuing did frustrat his gratious benefit he that in this case saith that Christ geueth hiÌ„ self truly really â–ª substaÌ„tially â–ª yea bodily aÌ„d corporally vnto theÌ„ that do receaue him by faith aÌ„d charity he speketh vndoutedly a great and a true word But if he adde that to theÌ„ that haue no faith aÌ„d charity he doth not geaue his true and real body he abuseth the excelleÌ„cy and worthines of the ê“uision that is made For the gift were not certain aÌ„d perfit aÌ„d coÌ„sisting of the geuers own power only aÌ„d goodnes if the faith of the receauer should either make it or marr it You therfore that caÌ„ speake excelleÌ„tly aÌ„d substaÌ„tially of the sacrameÌ„t do for al that abase Christs bouÌ„tefulnes because ye beleue not that absolutly without respecte had to any persons he geaueth himself truely in his SacrameÌ„ts but that he geueth him self truly aÌ„d presently only to the faithful receauer of hiÌ„ The Lawe of God is perfite Apol. and requireth of vs ful obedience Ergo we are able by no meanes to fulfill that Lawe in this wordely life The Answer is easie
Ecclesiasticall or the Temporall Court to encounter them withal they did not belieue And so I say and thou sayest went to and fro betwene them without anie conclusion or profite To driue therefore the mater to some Issue let vs heare no more saieth he I saie or thou sayest but this sayeth our Lorde his bookes we both belieue we both obey there let vs seeke the Church Now in other Kyndes of question as of fasting receiuing the SacrameÌ„ts keping of holy dayes and other traditions S. Augustine wold neuer bind vs to Scripture onlie him selfe saying of these and the like in his Epistle ad Ianuarium August â— epist. 116. ad â—anuarium What so euer the whole Church thorough the worlde dothe kepe thereof to dispute it is a most insolent madnes Likewise also towarde such kynde of Aduersaries as woulde be tried hy testimonies of olde Fathers togeather with Scriptures or without expresse Scripture he would neuer charge vs to vse these wordes onelie This saieth our Lorde but well would haue bene contented that we should saie â–ª this saieth Cyprian Ambrose Basile c. him selfe speakinge of Auncient Fathers before and in his tyme after this fasshion Quod credunt Contra IulianuÌ„ PelagianuÌ„ lib. 1. ca. 2. credo that whiche they beleue I beleue that whiche they say I say c. Therefore ye haue abused very muche your Reader and S. Augustine bothe making the one to thinke the other to testifie that we should not fight against Heretikes but with expresse Scripture onelie Fulgentius ad Thrasimundum saith Apolog. that Christ thoâ—gh he be absent from vs concerning his manhode yet is euer present with vs concerning his Godhead The forme of a seruant is one thing Confut. 3â— and manhood is an other The forme perteineth to shape and figure which couereth our substance and maketh it visible the manhood perteineth to the inwarde nature and is only intelligible The first is not graunted nor taught of the Catholikes that Christ is with vs now in earth after the forme of a seruant The second yet they confesse and belieue that he is with vs really in his manhood The first is Fulgentius true sayeng to the king Thrasimund The second is your deprauing of Fulgentius in face of the worlde Sozomenus saieth of Spiridion Apolog. and Nazianzene saieth of his owne Father that a good and diligent Bishoppe doth serue in the ministery neuer the worse for that he is maried but rather the better and with more hablenes to doe good It will neuer I feare be better with you Confut. 76. but alwaies worse and worse Would ye make Gregorie Nazianzene contrarie to the Apostle And S. Paule so expresselie pronouncyng that he which hath a wyfe is carefull for the thinges of the world 1. Cor. 7. and is diuided thinke you that any Auncient Father or writer whose testimonie your selfe doe trust were likely to say that a Bishop dothe serue the better in the ministery for that he is maried I am glad ye geue credit to Sozomenus and Nazianzene vsing them for witnesses that we may see whether ye wil regard their owne very wordes and crie them mercy for abusiug them Sozomenus saith thus speaking of SpiridioÌ„ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 1. c. â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This Spiridion waâ— an husband man hauyng wyfe anâ— chyldren but he was not therefore the worse to Godward How thinke you then doth he praise Mariage Doth he saie He serued God the better and wyth more hablenes by reason thereof Doth he not rather note it as a rare and a singular grace in him that hauing such occasions of diuidyng and distracting his mind he neuerthelesse was nothing abated in his diligence and attention towardes God Nazianzene likewyse speaketh of S. Basiles Fathers perfect life in mariage with A but yet saying Although he put himself in bondes of mariage yet he liued so therein as he was letted no whyt therefore from the attaining of perfect vertue and folowing of wisedome As who should say it commeth most times so to passe that when students or holy men are maried they looke but seldome on their bookes but wait vpon the busines of the world yet was it otherwyse with Basiles Father For he although he put himself in bonds of mariage yet he was no whit letted therefore c. In which words he coÌ„mendeth his vertue and geueth no exaÌ„ple to vnmaried Priests that if they wil be furthered to perfectioÌ„ they should not be without a bedfelow nomore thaÌ„ he which should report of an other that he sitteth at a table ful of delicats and yet neuer surfeiteth vpon them that proue that it is a right waye to temperance alwaies to be at many and fine dishes Whereas contrariwise in all things that are delectable vnto the senses and hurtfull by excesse vnto morall vertues the safest way is to flee from occasions of euill vntil by longe custome an habite be obteined in the vertue And then as it is an argument of greate perfection to liue with a woman and nothing to be hindred in deuotion by her so it is so rare a vertue and needelesse thoughe it be in a man to be practised that as it may sometimes come to passe that one is not the worse yet there was neuer yet any man so blind and vnsensible which would thinke it to be a preferment toward perfection to be at bed and at borde with a woman The more you haue then to answer for which haue fathered such a sense on S. Gregory Nazianzene S. Hierome Al these things saith he which without the testimony of the Scriptures Apolog. are holdeÌ„ as deliuered from the Apostles be throughly smitten doune by the sword of Gods worde He saith not generally al those things Conf. 30 oiÌ„a but In â—rinâ—uÌ„ cap. Aggaei Sed alia that is and other thinges also And he saith not which are holden asseruÌ„tur but which they find and fâ—ncie meaning heretikes of whom onely he speaketh in that place And therefore he maketh not a generall rule against Traditions but a special prouision against the deceits of heretikes It was ryghtly said by Pius the second a bishop of Rome Apolog that he sawe many causes why wiues should be taken away from Priests but many moe and more weighty causes why they ought to be restored to them againe His wordes Conf. â—0 as Platina reporteth are these that mariage hath bene takeÌ„ froÌ„ Priestes with great reason And that it semeth it were to be restored again with greater Note it semeth not it ought and note greater reaâ—on and not manie moe and more weyghtie And if he had so ernestly spoken as you suppose yet dothe he not allowe the mariage of priestes whiche he confesseth to haue bene taken away for greate cause but so muche he seemeth to be greaued with the loosenes of theÌ„ in his time that he thought the causes why they might be permited to
ready to diminsh the numbre of Ceremonies that the greatest papist in the world would not aske more fauor in the questioÌ„ aÌ„d cause of theÌ„ First if the Scripture doth alow anie order or fashioÌ„ it is not vaine If the whole Church hath generally receiued ani it is not vaine If it be but a particular Ceremony of one couÌ„trie and be not agaiÌ„st the faith or good maners it is not vaine Yea if anie thing be in it which helpeth to amendement of life it is not vaine By so many waies and for so many causes a ceremony maie wel continue as ye shal finde in that verie epistle of S. Augustin Epi. 119. c. 18. 19. And had you the face so to alleage this holy Doctours complaining of ceremonies as though he would haue as few as you What Sacrament haue you about which ye doe occupie oile What thinke you of the fast of lent What of Alleluia betwixt Easter and Witsontide What vse haue you of any Octaues Cap. 7. 15. 18. Yet of these Ceremonies he maketh mentioÌ„ in the foresaied Epistle and reckoneth that they are to be vsed and regarded Gregory c. if the Church saieth he shall depend vppon one man Apolog. it will at once fal doune to the ground Ye belie him shamfully he hath no such words at al. Conf. 203 Yet the protestaÌ„t may think this impossible that you should haue no more regarde of your honestye Let him seeke then if he be learned and iudge by his owne senses whether any such proposition is ther to be found But is there not a like vnto it Ye as so like as Rome is to Constantinople or Gregorie S. Peters successour to Nestorius of Constantinople an heretike For if a man should seeke for his life to find in that epistle but some resemblance of that which the Apology reporteth he findeth no more but this which I shal declare for th'vnlerned sake Iohn Bishope of Constantinople affected the title of Vniuersal Bishope S. Gregorie then Pope of Rome coÌ„plaineth thereof to Mauritius the Emperour declaring good causes aÌ„d reasons why such presumptioÌ„ should not be suffred Emong other he maketh this argument Lib. 4. epist. 3â— Surely we haue knoweÌ„ manie Prelats of the Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople to haue falleÌ„ into the goulfe of heresie and to haue ben not only heretiks but archeheretikes also Nowe for example he nameth Nestorius and Macedonius then bringeth he in therevpon this conclusion If therefore in that church vndoubtedly of Constantinople anie pul vnto himself that name of Vniuersal Bishope ergo which hath ben the iudgement of all good men the whole church which God forbid falleth froÌ„ her state wheÌ„ he falleth which is called Vniuersall An excellent argument vndoubtedly For if the only or Vniuersall Bishope should be at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople that see hauing no priuilege of coÌ„tinuing stil in the right faith as appereth by the archeheretikes which sate ther and al the world being bound to obey the Vniuersal Bishope this one absurditie grauÌ„ted a thousand would folow and that one Bishoppe erring all the whole Church should go a straie Loe this is al that may seme to geue any occasioÌ„ of reporting that which the Apologie hath attributed to S. Gregorie And wher find we here that if the church depeÌ„d vpon one maÌ„ â–ª it must at once fal doune to the ground Wil they yet defend theyr lying Or dare they yet stil abuse the old fathers â—s the Church aÌ„d that Church al one in coÌ„cluding Is depeÌ„ding vpon one man and that man al a like The successor of S. Peter and Bishop in that chaire in which neuer yet was fouÌ„d any archeheretike to set furth naughty doctrin is he al one with a Bishope of ConstaÌ„tinople â–ª which neither succedeth any Apostle and hath bene a defender of heresies let vs see now therfore whether you wil coÌ„fesse your errour in mistaking S. Gregorie Or mainteine your impudencie in misusing of him The bishâ—ps sayth Bernard who now haue yâ— charge of Gods church Apolog. ar not teachers but deceauers they are not feders but begilers thei are not prelats but pilates These words spake Bernard of yâ— B. who nameth him self the highest Bishop of al of yâ— other Bishops likwise which then had the place of gouernement How then Confut. Did S. Bernard forsake al papistrie and abandon the Pope because of those faâ—ltes which he fouÌ„d If he did why taried he in his moÌ„kes cote vnto his death If he did not what vnwise meÌ„ be you to for sake the Church for euil maners sake But coÌ„sider further WhoÌ„ called he deceauers â–ª begâ—â—ers pilats Al the whole order of Bishopes and gouernoures of the Church froÌ„ the Pope dounward Or spake he of some certain only If he noted but some certain aÌ„d â—heÌ„ worthely those other some which were not infected might wel preserue the state of the Church in truth of maners and doctrine that ye need not to feare an vtter destruction 〈◊〉 it and so through wretched foly depart out of it If he spake generally of al then wil I coÌ„fesse that ye are not so much to be blamed for your departing from that Church nor for anie your applieyng of S. Bernardes Authorie to that purpose But because I am sure this is false therefore I charge you and blame you How proue I this I proue it by those very bookes in which as you saie the foresaid wordes against the Pope and Bishopes are For concerning Eugenius him selfe he saieth in the third boke after much complaint or reproufe made of the euil maners of the Court of Rome Haec ad te Berna de CoÌ„s lib â–ª 3 noÌ„ de te scribo I writ this vnto thee not of thee And immediatly he declareth by example how Eugenius refused bagges of monie which came out of Germany and condemned a greate riche bisshop by likelyhode notwithstaÌ„ding his mony And how he gaue of his own vnto an other poore bisshop to geue vnto the officers in the Court least the bisshop should seeme niggish and vncourteous if he should haue nothing rewarded them Now Doth it greaue thee to heare this And I ê™ S. Bernard doe tell it so muche the more gladly by how much thou hearest it the more greauously The Pope theâ— him selfe was none of those deceauers begilers or pilates whom you mention Furth then were al the Cardinalles and Bishops deceiuers c. No neither al they as you may reade it proued in the fourth boke of that worke by the exaÌ„ples of two great Legats The one was Cardinal Martine Cardinal Martin which being sent legate into Dacia a countrie ful of gold and siluer returned yet so poore that for lacke of mony and horses he coulde scarse reach vnto Florence The Bishope of which place gaue him an horse without mention making of any mater to be done for it Yet the legat aÌ„d Cardinal Martin was 〈◊〉 soner at Rome but the bishop of Florence
vs either what or whereof For ther is an holy adminstratioÌ„ of al the seueÌ„ sacrameÌ„ts aÌ„d in other things also which the church obserueth as halowiÌ„g of churches of paschal taper of palma of asshes aÌ„d in buâ—iyng of the dead But the decre is referred to the holy oblation or sacrifice the truth of which as ye wil not beleue so the very sâ—uÌ„d of the word ye caÌ„ not wel abide SecoÌ„dly th' emperor speketh not of som fruit as you say as though no ê“fit câ—me of th' oblation if the priest spake not aloud but of more deuotioÌ„ to be stirred therby GeuiÌ„g vs to vnderstaÌ„d that al is not lost though nothiÌ„g be hard but somwhat is won wheÌ„ the sense is more stirred Thirdly your surmise that we therfore speke with a holow voice lest the peple shuld vnderstaÌ„d vs is vnsensible For neither the clergy shuld lese any thiÌ„g if the people were learned Nor the people should vnderstaÌ„d much spake thei latin neuer so loud And heretiks wold vtter the secrets of our seruice were we neuer so warie And no charitable man will suspecte it of the whole Church that they enuie the peoples commoditie Then as for mumbling vp the Seruice the Catholikes doe in theyr most chiefest Churches sing and saie more distinctly and treatably then anie protestantes doe And I feare if Seruice were so songe in England as the Dominicans Augustines Franciscanes and Carthusians doe vse many of the moste feruente in sprite would complaine vppon the leisure and treatablenes that were taken in it Fourthely the Latine is no strange or barbarouse tongue as being the most coÌ„mon in this west parte of the world and one of the three principall and lerned tongues Pope Iulius doth euidently forbyd Apolog. that a Priest in ministring the Communion should dippe the bread in the cup. These men contrary to Pope Iulius decree diuide the bread and dyppe it in the wine He doth it so euidently Confut. 243. that it is not at all to be seen in his decree Shewe it that he forbiddeth the Priest to dippe the bread in the Cuppe as we vse in our mysteries and ye shal be honest meÌ„ But he speaketh De coÌ„sec distin 2. cuÌ„omne not of the maner of the Priestes vsing or receiuing the Sacrament but only of ministring of the hoste dipped in the blud vnto the peple which neither at this daie is allowed You must serue vs no more with suche soppes dipped in lies Pope Clement saieth Apolog. it is not lawfull for a Bishop to deale with both swords For if thou wilt haue both saith he thou shalt deceaue both thy selfe and those that obey thee Now a daies the Pope chalengeth both swordes and vseth them both Wherefore it ought to seeme lesse maruail if that haue folowed which ClemeÌ„t saieth that is that he hath deceaued both his owne selfe and those which haue geuen eare vnto him It is not laufull for you so desperatly to make lies Con. 245 For how is not this desperatly done to say that of any man which 〈◊〉 not be proued by him The Pope sayeth Si mundialibus curis fueris occupatus if thou be occupied in worldly cares And the Apologie maketh him to say 〈◊〉 vtrumque habere vis if thou wilt haue both swordes If Cura signify a sword and mundialis signifie two Or if Occupari curis be to occupi two swords then hath the Apologie geuen a greate blowe to the Papistes But whereas no such construction can be made it hath fought in this place not only without 〈◊〉 sworde but also without a scabberd because there is no such word in Pope ClemeÌ„t in which they maie put anie of the two swordes that they drawe out of his testimonie Nazianzen pronouÌ„ced openly yâ— he neuer had seen any good end of any couÌ„cel Apolog. He spake of the prouincial Councels And he spake also of his owne time Confut. 278. iâ— which heretikes did commonly deceaue priÌ„ces aÌ„d by force set vp their new deuices But he was not so vnwise as to mislike with Generall Councels or to geaue an example to the posteritie of extreme and vnreasonable disobedience In old time when the Church of God if we wil compare it with their Church was very wel gouerned Apolog. both elders DeacoÌ„s as saieth CypriaÌ„ certaine also of the common people were called vnto Councelles and made acquainted with ecclesiasticall matters What were these certain of the people whoÌ„ ye would proue by S. CypriaÌ„ to haue ben called to CouÌ„cels By this word certaine you signifie that there was an order takeÌ„ who should come who should not come And you make your Reader to coÌ„ceiue that out of the coÌ„mon people som were chosen which should be present at CouÌ„cels as though that had bene materiall in the Primitiue Church But S. CypriaÌ„ saith no such thing that any at al of the people Cypr. in Sententiis Con. CarthagineÌ„sis were called to the Councell but only this that when manie Byshopes at the first daye of September were assembled together at Crathage with their Priestes and Deacons the most part of the people were also present But who sent 〈◊〉 them Or who thought theyr presence necessary or how make you the presence of the most parte to be a calling oâ— certeine of the people By like reason you might say that in al causes where either a spiritual or temporal lorde is examined the people are called to the hearing of it because they are very prone to vnderstand newes and are not forbyddeâ—â— to stand by and here what is done in open Courte At the commyng of Christ Apolog. of God his worde of the ecclesiastical doctrine and of the ful destruction of Niniue and of that most beautiful harlotte then shal the people which heretofore had ben cast in a â—raunce vnder theyr masters be raised vp and shal make haste to goe to the mountaines of Scripture I note Confut. .331 in this testimony of S. Hierom your lieing spritâ— and sprity she spite For whereas he speaketh not of the Church of Rome but of the vniuersall state of the world which is signified by Niniue and whereas you care not what come of the world so that the church of Rome may be defaced of that which was but one in S. Hierome you haue made two things and turne that one which is altogeather of your owne making to the setting furth of your procedinges For S. Hierom speaketh of the destruction of Niniue In com in Nah. cap. 3 â–ª speciosissimae quondaÌ„ meritricis of Niniue which was once a most beautiful haâ—lot and you make him to speake of Niniue speciosissimae meretricis of Niniue aÌ„d the most beautiful harlot as though that Niniue were one thing and the beutiful harlot were an other Yet because this was not plaine enough for your purpose you geue S. Hierome the spirite of prophesie And verely you thinke he ment to foretell of
the most Gorgeouse harlot BabiloÌ„ So that the beutiful harlot must not be vnderstanded now of Niniue peculiarly as S. Hierome applieth it but of the whore of Babilon Which by the interpretation of the whorish heretikes is the See of Rome Iudge now whether this be to interpret S. Hierom or to make a tale of their owne by the gifte of theyr lieing Sprite FroÌ„ theÌ„ce sayth S. CypriaÌ„ spring schismes sects Apolog. because meÌ„ seke not yâ— head haue not theyr course to the Fountaine of the Scriptures and keepe not yâ— rules geauen by the heauenly teacher Where hath S. Cyprian these words Or where speaketh he of the fountaines of the Scripture Confut. .347 Or the Original of truthe Of seeking to an head Of the doctrine of the Heauenly teacher He speaketh in the treatise De simplicitate Praelatorum or vnitate Ecclesiae and he bringeth al those three pointes to this end that Christe made Peter the head of his Church But of those fountaines of Scriptures we caÌ„ not tel wheâ— he speaketh and we knowe you so wel by this tyme that we can not beleue you except ye shew it The Euangelistes and the Apostles Prophetes sayinges shew vs sufficiently Apolog. what opinion we ought to haue of the will of God This is a true sayinge Confut. .313 yet Theodorete speaketh not of the wil of God generally but lib. 1. ca. 7 â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Godhead For the controuersie was then betwene the Catholiks and Arrians about the Consubstantialitie of God the Sonne with his Father And therefore interprete him better or vse not his Authoritie The 5. Chapiter declaring how Councels are belyed and abused in the Apologie of the Church of England According to the iudgment of the Nicen Councel Apolog. we say that the Bishop of Rome hath no more iurisdiction ouer the Church of God than the rest of the Patriarkes of Alexandria or Antiochia haue The Canon is Conf. 50. Let the auncient custome continue in force whiche he is it Egypt Libya and PeÌ„tapoli that the bishope of AlexaÌ„dâ—ia haue power ouer them all for asmuch as the Bishope oâ— Rome hath thus vsed In these words for asmuch as the Bishoppe of Rome hath thus vsed appeareth manifestlie the prerogatiue of the Bishoppe of Rome as from whose maner and custome they take an example of theyr doeinges For if it should be so vnderstanded that because the Bishoppe of Rome hath power ouer the couÌ„trie about him therefore the Bishope of Alexandria and not the Bishope of Antiochia should â—ule Egypt Libya and Pentapoly that hangeth no better togeather than if you should say let the Bishop of Canterbury be Archbishop of Yorkeshire or Ireland because the Bishoppe of Rome hath power ouer the Countreies about him And allthoughe this Argument maie seeme to conclude à Simili thus as the Bishoppe of Rome ruleth his Countrie so let euerie Metropolitane in like maner beare rule ouer his owne Countrie yet to appointe by name either Eygpte to the Bishope of Alexandria or Ireland to the Bishop of Canterbury that must depeÌ„d of some other cause and not of this that the Bishop of Rome hath iurisdictioÌ„ in Italy Now consider the mater as the truth is that the Bishoppe of Rome hath supreme authoritie emong al Bishopes and then it foloweth by good reason that the Bishop of Alexandria shall rule Egypt because the Bishop of Rome hath so vsed That is because it is so apointed and so receiued at Rome that Aegypte Libya and PeÌ„tapolis should perteine to the Bishoppe of Alexandria therefore let that order continue And this is the meaning of the Nicene Councell and this maketh for the Popes Supremacy and this proueth you to belye the Nicene CouÌ„cel which hath not at al any such wordes as you mention that he hath no more Iurisdiction ouer the Churche than the rest of the Patriarches The Councel of Carthage Apolog. did circumspectely prouide that no Bishoppe shoulde be called either the highe Bishope or Chiefe Priest The Councell doth not say No Bishope but Conf. 53. A Bishop of a first See shal not be called Chiefe of Priestes or highest Priest For whereas there be other priestes besides in the world which are not subiect vnto his see reason it is that his title extend it selfe to no more than those that are vnder his Iurisdiction Also this Canon was for the Bishopes of the prouinces of Aphrica And last of all it extendeth it selfe only to the first sees which are many according to the numbre of Countries and not to the Apostolike See and chiefe aboue all which is but one The Councel of Nice Apolog. as is alleaged by some in greeke plainly forbiddeth vs to be basely affectiouated or bent toward the Bread and Wine whiche are sette before vs. This disproueth nothinge at all the real presence of Christ in the SacrameÌ„t Conf. 108 especiallie if you would haue added that whiche foloweth in the verie selfe same sentence and not haue clipped so worthie a Councell For it foloweth thus But lyfting vp our minde lette vs by faithe vnderstand on that holy table to be laied the laÌ„be of God that taketh away the synnes of the world which is sacrificed of Priestes vnbloudelie and receiuing his preciouse body and bloud verely let vs beleue these to be the pleadges of our resurrection Therefore the Councel in forbidding vs to be baselie affected intended not to make vs beleue that Christ is in heauen onlie and not also vpon the Aultar The old Councell at Rome decreed Apolog. that no man should come to the seruice saied by a Priest well knowen to keepe a Conucbyne We find no such Canon in the old Romaine Councels But Nicolaus and Alexander Popes haue willed that none should heare the Masse of that Priest whom he knoweth vndoutedly to kepe â— Concubine whereby ye may vnderstand the masse alowed and the lustes of the Clergie punished and your mistaking of the Councell corrected The olde councell Gangrense Apolog. commaundeth that none should make suche difference betwene an vnmaried Priest a maried Priest as he ought to thinke the one more holy than the other for single life sake The wordes be these Confut. 240. If anie make a difference of a Priest who hath ben maried as thoughe when he sacrificeth a man might not communicate with his oblation accursed be he The Councell therefore speaketh of suche as were first maried and afterwardes toke Priesthode vppon them and not contrarywise of such as were first of all pristes and then afterwards did fall to mariage In which poynte the obiection of Catholikes against you consisteth The Councell at Carthage coÌ„maunded Apolog. nothing to be reade in Christes coÌ„gregatioÌ„ but the Canonical Sciptures Why reade you then Homelies of your owne making Conf. 24â— But to the matter The wordes of the councel are these It hath seemed good vnto vs that
besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be red in the Church vnder the name of the holy Scriptures Therfore it forbiddeth not the reading of other thinges but in that sort as they should be commended and vttered for Scripture it selfe And strait wayes it foloweth in the same decree Let it be lauful also for the passioÌ„s and deaths of Martyrs to be read wheÌ„ their yerely feasts are kept Doe you see your lie now and wil ye lowly coÌ„fesse it Or are ye so froward that ye wil not see it or are ye so cunning that ye caÌ„ defend it Your coÌ„fession or defensioÌ„ we are content te heare but if you will be blinde lette others behold and consider that nothiÌ„g but Canonical Scripture and the deathes of Martyrs to be readen also in the Church can not both be true and stand togeather And beholde whiles I thought this obiection could not possibly be refelled it was for certainty reported vnto vs here by some that were present at M. Iewels sermoÌ„ at Poules Crosse the fiftenth of Iuly last that he complained that M. Doctor Harding wroÌ„gfully charged the authors of the Apologie with this place as being a manifeste abusing and mangling of the third CouÌ„cel of Carthage For sayd he we alleage not this out of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage but of the Councel of Hippo. Did ye so in deede Is not your Apologie therin against you Is not the CouÌ„cell of Carthage both named in the Text and noted in the margent thereof Your Latine is thus In Apol. Ecclesi Angl. Vetus Concilium Carthaginense iubet ne quid in Sacro coetulegatur praeter scripturas Canonicas aÌ„d in the margeÌ„t thus it is noted TertiuÌ„ Carth. ca. 47. And the English interpretation hath thus The old Councel at Carthage coÌ„maunded nothing to be readen in Christes coÌ„gration but the Canonical Scriptures and there lykewise in the margent ye put Concil Car. 3. cap. 47. How dare ye then so loudly to lie that ye alleaged the foresaied place out of the Councel of Hippo and not the Councell of Carthage It appereth well that Doctor Harding hath ye vpon the hippe when to saue your selues from the fall ye deny your owne words In his reply to D. Cole And wonder it is that M. Iewel would euer be the reporter of such an answer In his replie to D Harding .157 whereas himselfe hath vsed this very place of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage to like effect aÌ„d purpose as ye haue vsed it in your Apology Especially wheras there is no Councel of Hippo extant at al vnto which yet ye refer your selues CoÌ„sider therfore Indifferent reader of this place and suffer not thy selfe so to be abused that they shal make thee beleue that they alleaged not that Councell whiche thou maiest see with thy owne eyes to be named and quoted in theyr Apologie and that they folowed the Canons of the Councell of Hippo of whiche they can shewe no Canons at all that are extant In the Councell at Chalcedone Apolog. Ciuile Magistrate condemned for Heretiks by the sentence of his owne mouth the Bishoppes Dioscorus Iuuenal and Thalasius and gaue iudgement to put them from that promotion in the Church In what parte of that Councell Conf. 315. maie one finde this which you reporte In the thirde Action we doe reade that Paschasius with his two felowes the Legats of the Pope of Rome pronounced the sentence of condemnation against Dioscorus the forme whereof is fully there expressed How then Shall we thinke that one of the Popes Legates was a Ciuill Magistrate Or that the Ciuil Magistrate condemned Dioscorus ageine by the sentence of his own mouth when he was sufficiently iudged by the whole Councel of Bishopes Ye haue manie fetches yet you can not but be conuinced in this place of an impudent lye or extreme folie The most that ye might saie as farre as we can reache is that the Ciuile magistrate subscribed vnto the sentence of the Councell and by his voice also condemned Dioscorus for an heretike But this is not inoughe for you to saue your honesties For you must declare that the ciuil magistrat not only coÌ„deÌ„ned them by his testimonie or assent but also by his sentence and not such a sentence only as might concurre with the iudgmeÌ„tes of the Superiours lyke as euery bishoppe in a general Councel geueth sentence in causes Ecclesiasticall But it is included within that one senteÌ„ce which the chiefest in al the Councel do alow and geue but you must ê“ue that the ciuil mgistrat gaue the senteÌ„ce with his own mouth For so ye speake as though he had ben the the best man in the place and president of the Councel To this of Dioscorus that ye may aunswer the more fully I wil not troble yoâ— with Iuuenal and Thalassius whome ye haue also belyed in this mater Bishopes of an other sorte than Dioscorus was although you haue coÌ„deÌ„ned them together The Sixth Chapiter wherein is noted how the Apologie belieth and abvseth the Scriptures theÌ„selues It was saied indifferently to all the Apostles Apolog. Feed eye YOu meane Conf. 48. I am assured the one and tweÌ„ty of S. Iohn in which chapiter yet there is no meÌ„tion at al of the plural number with Feed ye but to S. Peter alone feede thou saieth Iesus my lambes feede thou my shepe Whether haue you a Ghospell not yet knowen to the world in which Christ saieth indifferently to al his Apostles feede ye Woe vnto you Scribes and Pharseis Apol. which haue takeÌ„ away yâ— keies of knowlege and haue shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men The Scripture saying Conf. 72. that one iote or title of the law shal not passe vntil all be fulfilled a changing of the numbre in any place of the Gospel must not be thought to be vnworth the noting Luâ—â— 11. Of the keie of knowlege Christ spake and not of keies in the plural number Paule saieth Apolo that the tyme should be when men should not awaie with holsome doctrine but be turned backe vnto â—ables and lyes and that wythin the very Church And that within the very Church Conf. 20â— Where finde ye these wordes in S. Paul That men should not away with holsome doctrine it is to be founde in the fourthe chap. of the seconde to Timothe And it is verified in all heretikes but that S. Paul â—hould referre those wordes to the very Church it selfe it is impudently attributed to the Apostle And to graunte vnto you as muche as might be for excuse of your wordes that in some sense it might be true that euen within the verie Churche men shoulde not away with holsome Doctrine that is that althoughe manie for theyr vnderstandinge dissented not from it yet in theyr lyuing they shoulde impugne it Yet to saye as you doe that S. Paule dothe expound his woordes of the verie Churche it is altogeather boldelie and falselie affirmed God Apolog. by
nor purgatories nor pardons An instance in anie one of these u sufficient to proue you a lyer And therefore to let passe Asia Syria Assyria and Armenia countries too far to goe vnto and see whether we say true or no In Venis at this day in the Greeke Church the priest receiueth alone at the altar which is by your interpretion to saie a priuate Masse and of this you mai be fully perswaded if because ye mistrust the Catholiks reporte which haue seen it you wil but aske of the Reuerent Father Shire or some of your owne Merchantes whiche haue trauailed thither or send some letter of yours by theyr frendeship to anie false ChristiaÌ„ and faithful brother ther to knowe whether you haue not spoken more than you are able to proue We turne yâ— scriptures into al toÌ„gues Apolog. they scante suffer them to be had abroad in anie tongue Haue ye turned them yet into welsh and Irishe Confut. but for lieing vpon yourselfe I leaue you to your selfe CoÌ„cerning the Catholikes if your saying be true who then maintaineth the Hebrue Readers of the old testament in Rome the expounding the same in latin in euerie Catholike Vniuersitie the open selling of Bibles Hebrue Greek and Latinâ— in al Printers shoppes the continual reading of Scriptures in Monasteryes not only in opeÌ„ Church and secrete Celle but eueÌ„ in the Refectories at diner and supper Who doe al this but Papistes Your lye therefore is verie notorious Peter verely whom the Pope hath oftence in hys mouth and more reuerently vseth to speake of Apolog. then he doth of Ihesu Christe dyd boldely stand against the holy Councell If ye loued Con. 274 either God or man so trulie and iustly as ye would be thought to doe it were impossible for you so suspitiousely to interprete the honour geauen to the Seruant to be a diminishing of the honor and reuerence due to his Master For the charitie of God the greater as it is in vs so it maketh vs to reioyse stil more and more the more that anie is praysed or remembred whom he fauoureth And to murmur grudge cast doune the heade or make a lippe at it when S. Peter or any other of the glorious and blessed in Heauen is dayly and reuerently spoken of what is it els but malitiously or blindelie to thinke that S. Peter hath alreadie honour inough or rather to much seruice done vnto him and that God him selfe is like to fare the worse if his Sainctes be continuallie magnified On the other side 1. Cor. â—â— concerning our neighbour Charitie being patient gentill not suspitious c. howe might a man full of spirite excepte it be of the hotte sprite of Hel iudge by a mans reuerent speaking of S. Peter that he would not speake so reuerentelie of Ihesus Christe Besides this ye whiche lyue in England and make suche reportes of the Pope whose abode is in Rome being neither of priuie chamber nor householde noâ— of the same Citie or Countrie with him howe can ye by anie likelyhode be other then false lyers in iudging so particularlie of his maâ—ers vntill ye bringe the Authonr of this your saying or light beleuers of tales when ye haue named the Authours Yet truly we do not despise councels Apolog. assemblies and conferences of Bishops and learned men neither haue we done that we haue done altogeather without Bishopes or without Councel The mater hath ben treated in open ParleameÌ„t with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Connocation Yeas Con. 275. altogether without Bishops and without a Councel For in that notable Parleament the first of our Soueraigne Lady that now is Quene in which that was don for you that was done ye could haue no Bishops in the plurall number to stand for you because ye had not so much as one in the Singular number Albeit afterward in dede one ye had and he being deceaued or ouercummed did beare with the procedinges more proprely then support them This is one Now as for the treating of the matter in open Parleament it was so open that your voices had no place in it This is an other Thirdly concerning the long consultation that was vsed the Parleament began after Christmas and without any greate arguing to or fro the maydenbill as it was called of the Princes Supremacie was readye to haue passed aboute the beginning of Lent Then stode one vp that spake against it with such libertie that he was examined vpon it and lost his owne libertie 30. dayes together and with such truth and grauitie that for so many daies after the matter also of the Supremacie was suppressed Yet about Easter for the worde head came in the word Gouernour And so was the Supremacye admitted when the Parleament so little thought of such a fetch that an earnest faâ—orer of the Gospel toke indignation at it and saied that if men were ashamed of the word it self head they should also refuse the Supremacie it selfe which was imported by it And cal you this a long consultation This is a third Last of all touching the notable Synod and coÌ„uocation it put vp to the ParleameÌ„t an expresse bil of informatioÌ„ against your procedinges So far of it was from helping you This is the fourth greate lye in this one little sentence of yours From which fowre if ye wil defende your selues by referring your meaning not to the first Parleament of the first yeare of Quene Elizabeth in which ye were Sirs out of office but vnto the other that folowed the Catholike Bishops now being safely kept in prison then as ye debate the poyse of your former 〈…〉 for al that ye doe augment 〈…〉 your foly For your mattâ—â—◠〈…〉 to passe for you in the first ParleameÌ„t in which none of you were pÌ„sent though the Parleament folowing had ben open the coÌ„sultation long the coÌ„uocation notable albeit this might be proued to be an open longe and notable lye yet note I praie you the folie and lie which in this sentence goe togeather For your maters being don to your hands in the first Parleament where no place was made for you it is a verie lye to saie We haue not done that we haue done altogeather without Bishoppes And the first Parleament seruing your purpose so fullie that ye needed not an other what wisedome was it to haue a longe consultation and notable Synode vppon that whiche was before concluded for you and by you was not to be remoued for all your notable conuocation Continuallie for the space of fyue hundred yeares Apolog. the Emperour alone appointed the Ecclesiastical assemblies Where beginne you to recken Con. 311. Three hundred yeares afâ—tr Christ there was no Emperour in the world openlie professing him selfe a Christian and yet Ecclesiasticall assemblies were apointed aÌ„d kepte in Hierusalem by the Apostles In Palestina when Victor was Pope At Rome by Fabian c. Then if ye will begyn at Constantin the first