That Scripture is the old Song of Hereticks and Secretaries c. I know not whether it betrays more ignorance or profaneness The Scriptures if they must be so called were the Old Song of the Good Old Fathers of the Church and the Old Song of the Old Hereticks and Sectaries was Tradition Tradition unwritten Tradition the taking up of which Song is that that gives you some Title to Antiquity To your Second Interrogatiory I Answer That if by admitting various Interpretations you mean that the words of the Bible are not so plain as to exclude all possibility of various Interpretations and perveting them to a wrong sence 't is then a very idle Demand Whether the Bible does not admit of various Interpretations For I defie your Judge whom you speak of presently after be he Man or Men to put words so together that it shall be impossible to pervert them to a wrong meaning But if you mean that upon a fair Construction of the Words of the Bible they admit various Interpretations I Answer That in some places they do and in others they do not admit more than one which is therefore undoubtedly the true one But for you consequence that of necessity some Judge is to be assigned c. I beg your pardon that I do not see it unless of necessity Men must be either so wanton and quarrelsom as to wrangle to all eternity about the meaning of words which may be diversly expounded without any harm done or so perverse as to cavil at a Text which has but one plain meaning If you find yourselves given this way you indeed ought to have a Judge assigned for you and more than One. You should have one Judge assigned whose constant business it should be to determin the true Interpretation of all other Scriptures but those that speak of him to keep you from wrangling about them And you would need another Extraordinary Judge to assign the Ordinary Judge from those Texts that mention him and a Third to assign the Second and so on till you come to a Judge for whose Credit you must take his own Word that ye may not wrangle about a Judge to all Eternity Sect. 6 Quer. To these Queries I have often desired an Answer but never yet met with any Answ Why that was hard indeed but I must tell you that these Queries tho' they were Printed yet went abroad so privately as if they were more affraid than desirous to meet with an Answer Whether you ever met with an Answer I cannot say perhaps you have not and it may be you will never own that you have But let us go on Sect. 7 Quer. If you pretend as many do that Cranmer and his Associates derived their Holy Orders from Christ and his Apostles by the Hands of Roman Catholick Bishops it follows inevitably that Roman Catholick Bishops did also receive their Orders from Christ and his Apostles and consequently are therefore to be heard By this Answer the Protestants seem to me to destroy their own Cause Answ If they destroy their own Cause you are to give them thanks for 't is more than their Enemies can do But I do not see how this Answer destroys it for if those whom you call Roman Catholick Bishops can give good Orders then were the Orders of Cranmer and his Associates good It is enough for us that they had their Orders from Bishops And as we contend that their Orders were never the better so we willingly grant that they were never the worse for being conferred by those whom you must needs style Roman Catholick Bishops Well but you say If we pretend to derive our Holy Orders from Christ and his Apostles by the hands of Roman Catholick Bishops it follows inevitably that these also did receive their Orders from Christ and his Apostles So that though our Orders are never the worse from coming through their hands yet the Roman Catholick Bishops themselves are in a better case for our granting it since their Orders must therefore by our Confession be from Christ and his Apostles Very well and if your Doctrine be true it will I think be found that Judas received his Orders from Christ too when Christ said to him and to the rest Hoc Facite Perhaps you will say that those were not Bishops Orders To go on with you therefore What follows from Roman Catholick Bishops having received their Orders from Christ Why therefore they are true Bishops and to be heard Undoubtedly But what then Therefore Protestants seem to destroy their own Cause This is so much out of the Common Rode of Reasoning that surely you have some Logick by yourself which the World yet never saw and therefore you would do very well to let us have it if ever it should come into your head to Query again Not to have heard you had been unreasonable I confess and this whether your Bishops were True or not But we have heard them over and over and this although they have said the same thing over and over again You may also perceive that I have read which may serve instead of hearing yourself too whom I fancy to be no Bishop and this I assure you not without some tryal of my own Patience to read such rambling and unedifying things as you have here brought together Sect. 8 Quer. But you will say perhaps that Roman Catholick Bishops did receive their Orders not their Doctrine from Christ and his Apostles Very good I would fain know then by whose Authority the First Reformers rose up against the Doctrine of the Church of Rome Unty this Knot or Confess that Cranmer Luther Calvin Socinis c. made themselves Judges Witnesses and Accusers Answ Here again we are at a loss for want of your private Logick for why Judges Witnesses and Accusers should come in here no Man alive it may be knows but yourself and perhaps not you neither To so much as I understand I am content to Answer True Bishops then may Preach False Doctrine and against your Bishops we have terrible Evidence that those Doctrins of theirs which we reject are so far from being received from Christ that many of them are contrary to what we have received from him Now every Christian not only may but ought to reject such Doctrins and that by the same Authority which requires every one to prove all things and to hold fast that which is good And much more may Bishops and other Spiritual Guids rise up against them Nay by their Orders and Station in the Church they have not only Authority so to do but it will be severely required of them if they do it not I know not what ayl'd you to tye an invisible Knot and then to bid us unty it As for Socinus we are no more bound to Answer for his or any other Mans Errors because he holds many Truths with us against you than we are bound to answer for yours because we hold some Truths with you
the Character of a good Man whether they had the same Spirit of Sincerity and Piety and Charity and the like then according to this Notion I Answer That I verily believe they bad both the same Spirit notwithstanding that difference and consequently that the Spirit of the one as well as of the other was of God. Thirdly and Lastly This word Spirit is sometimes used to signifie a Persuasion concerning some Doctrin proceeding from the immediate Inspiration whether of the Good or the Evil Spirit And if the Question goes upon this meaning 't is an Impertinent Question for Luther and Calvin did not pretend to teach Doctrine from Immediate Imspiration but to Prove their Doctrine by the Scriptures But if you only meant to make some advantage to yourself from these two Mens disagreeing in a Matter which we must confess to be of Moment I only desire you to turn the Tables and to Answer these Queries Whether the Spirit of the Jesuites who say that the Pope is above a General Council and the Spirit of the Sorbon utterly denying it be the same Spirit Whether the Spirit of Thomas Aquinas affirming that the same Honour is to be given to the Image that is due to the Person represented by it or the Spirit of the Bishop of Meaux denying it be the same Spirit And not to be tedious Whether the Spirit of Innocent III. and his Lateran Council and of I know not how many more Popes and of Cardinal Perron and many more Cardinals affirming that Heretical Kings may and ought to be Deposed and the Spirit of our English Representer and those for whom he undertakes who all deny it be the same Spirit If not then both cannot be of God. Sect. 22 Quer. Was not John Calvin a most impudent Creature in assuming to himself the Office of Reforming the World being but a Young Man of Twenty five or Twenty six years of Age and without all pretence of Miracles a thing which Christ himself undertook not under Thirty years of Age Answ I think indeed Geneva may pass for the World by the same Figure that the Church of Rome goes for the Catholick Church When the World groans for a Reformation I do not see where lies the Impudence of trying by good Doctrine and Example to Reform that Part of it where one lives unless it lies in being Impudently and Bravely Good which is sometimes necessary to give a check to Impudence in that which is Bad. If he be a Young Man that takes this upon himself he is the more to be commended And if he can fairly carry the Reformation beyond his own Countrey this is still more commendable and if he could Reform the whole World then I say for that which you call Impudence Generations to come ought to rise up to his Name and call it Blessed You ought not I tell you to despise John Calvin's Youth as one of your Great Ones did Luther's Meanness who hearing the Auspurg Confession read said to his Confident That these things indeed were True but it was not to be endured that a pitiful Monk should Reform the World. But if nothing else will satisfie you but it must be Impudence in a Young Man to think of Reforming the place where he lives yet at least do not represent him as a most impudent Creature for as I take it there are a long row of Popes from Formosus downwards who if your own Historians are to be credited shall compare with John Calvin in this point not of Reforming the World but the other and shall get the better of him by much And amongst these there is one John XI Son to Sergius III. one of his Predecessors who was something less modest than John Calvin in as much as being yet but a Boy he took upon himself to be Head of the Catholick Church which our John I dare say would never have accepted any time of his life Indeed the young Pope was thus far to be excused that he was put into the Chair by Merocia who though she was not Sergius's Wife was yet John's Mother For Donna Olympia was not the first of her Quality that swayed all at Rome Sect. 23 Quer. Whether from the Womb of the Reformation have not issued all those Slaughters Rapines Tumults Plundering of Churches Schisms and Civil Wars which broke out in the year 1641. Answ No truly for since the Reformation the Church of England hath lent neither Principles nor Examples nor Counsels nor Arms nor Men nor Money to carry on Rebellions or Rapines The World saw that she stuck by her Royal Master to to the last And if you say that it was her Interest to do so then I hope you will grant that she has at other times given Proof of a higher Principle Nor can you without rubbing your Forehead question the strictness of her Loyalty who begin some of you to laugh at her for it I hope you will not say that the Irish Rebellion which broke the ice for all those Slaughters Rapines c. which you mention to come after it that that issued too from the womb of the Reformation I think this Query had better rest least when the Mother of that Off-spring is agreed upon we should be tempted to inquire who was the Father of it Sect. 24 Quer. Whether Africa produces more variety of Monsters than Britain does Fanaticks where every Man may read and interpret the Scriptures according to his own Judgment of Discretion Answ I know pretty well what Fanaticks Britain has produced but what variety of Monsters Africa produces I cannot well say the surest way to be satisfied is to go thither your self for Authors are not agreed But if by Fanaticks you mean False pretenders to Inspiration you may take your comparison nearer home where 't is as much as a Mans or Womans life is worth to have the Scriptures to read In short Britain has Fanaticks but the British Church does what she can to reclaim them which she thinks ought nor to be tried by setting up an Inquisition for some of 'em and cannot be done by making Saints of others of ' em You understand I suppose and therefore go on Sect. 25 Quer. Whether Queen Elizabeth born of Ann Bolen Queen Catharine yet living can be thought Legitimate Answ Without all Question she can be thought Legitimate for I find that I think so and I know many who say so that do not use to say one thing and think another Sect. 26 Quer. How admirable was the Wisdom of Henry the Eighth by expelling one Pope of Rome to raise up infinite Popes of his own Subjects Answ Not very admirable I confess if it were so for we had even too much of One Pope of Rome before as the Complaints and the Laws of our Ancestors can well witness But how did he raise up infinite Popes of his own Subjects Were there so many Heads of the Catholick Church raised by him in his own Dominions Or did every
What mean they by these words As well in all Spiritual as Temporal Things or Causes c. But that Protestants are sworn to yield to the King all manner of Obedience both Civil and Religious Are they not obliged therefore according to the Oath to become Catholicks with a Catholick King Calvinists with a Calvinist King Arians with an Arian I say according to this Oath because the Kings Majesty is the only Supreme Governor under Christ as well in all Spiritual as Temporal Causes which words confess in the King a Spiritual as well as Civil Jurisdiction But whence does his Spiritual Jurisdiction appear without the Power of the Keys Answ You have been as often told what we mean by these words As well in all Spiritual as Temporal Things or Causes as you have asked the Question but you would never take notice of the Answer nor make any exception to it and yet 't is an even wager that the next set of Queries which you intend to astonish us with brings this over again But once more you are desired to take notice of the meaning of our Church where 't is most plainly expressed viz. in Artic. 37. Title Of Civil Magistrates The Kings Majesty hath the chief Power in the Realm of England and other his Dominions unto whom the chief Government of all Estates of the Realm whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil in all Causes doth appertain and is not nor ought to be subject to any foreign Jurisdiction Where we attribute to the King's Majesty the chief Government by which Titles we understand the Minds of some standerous folks to be offended we give not to our Princes the ministring either of Gods Word or of the Sacraments the which thing the Injunctions set forth by Elizabeth our Queen do most plainly testisie but that only Prerogative which we see to have been given always to all Godly Princes in Holy Scripture by God himself that is that they should Rule all Estates and Degrees committed to their charge by God whether they be Ecclesiastical or Temporal and restrain with the Civil Sword the stubborn and Evil Doers You see then our Church acknowledges the King to be Supreme Governor in all Causes and over all Persons Ecclesiastical viz. that no Quality in the Church nor cause of the Church exempts a Subject from the Secular Laws and the Sword of Justice which may be very true as it undoubtedly is and yet all manner of Obedience in Religious Matters shall not presently become due to the King. For when Sovereigns require their Subjects to do things contrary to true Religion if their Subjects give but one manner of Obedience to their Laws which goes with us under the name of Passive Obedience it saves at once their acknowledgment of the Sovereigns Supremacy over them and Gods Supremacy over All. So that we are not obliged by our Oath to become Calvinists with a Calvinist King nor Arians with an Arian King nor Roman Catholicks with such a King nor in a word to be of the Kings Religion but to submit to his Authority let his Religion be what it will. In short let the Persons or the Causes be what they will out Church acknowledgeth the King to be Supreme Governor in his Dominions he only having the Civil Sword. But now as for you that make the Pope the Head of the Catholick Church and Union to him necessary to your being a Member of it who laugh at us for that dependence which our Ecclesiasticks have upon the King and depend in effect for all the benefits of Christianity upon your Ecclesiastical Union to the Pope which is something more than the Article recognizes of our Sovereigns you I say would do well to tell us how you can avoid being Arians with a Pope Liberius or Monothelites with a Pope Honorius or No Image-Worshippers with a Pope Gregory I. or Image-Worshippers with a Pope Adrian I. Sect. 32 Quer. You will say the King is to be Obeyed so far as we may by the Laws of God and the Kingdom Be it so then it follows that the King is not Supreme Governor under Christ but the Laws of God and the Kingdom Answ To this silly Stuff I oppose a little plain Sense That the Laws of the Kingdom are not to be opposed to the Supremacy of the King whose Laws they are That the King is our Supreme Governor under God but that we know of no Supreme Governor that is to be Obeyed absolutely without any Limitation whatsoever but God himself Sect. 33 Quer. What if Controversies rise between the King and his Subjects about the True Sense of Scripture Who shall be Judge The Private Spirit or not Hence If am not mistaken came the Rise of our late Civil Wars Answ I dare say you are the first that ever found out the want of a Judge betwixt King and People to be the Rise of the late Civil Wars 'T is pity the Observation should be lost for 't is a notable one and would mend the History of those Times not a little But pray who should that Judge be to determine the True Sense of Scripture between the King and his Subjects The Pope without doubt And so we are gotten into the old Circle again For if they must take the Judgement of the Pope at a venture then any Man may be agreed upon to be the Judge and he will serve the turn as well as the Pope But if God has made the Pope Judge that indeed is another case But how shall we know it By the Scripture Who then must be Judge of the True Sense of Scripture with reference to the Question The Pope says 't is a plain case on his side But it may be neither the King says it nor his Subjects Who therefore must be the Judge between the King and the Pope or between his Subjects and the Pope Not the private Spirit for the World for thence come Wars So that the Pope must be Judge because the Scripture says so and the Scripture says so because the Pope must Judge Now if instead of Pope you put in Council you will find the Circle go as round with one as t'other Nor do I see how you can avoid it but by running out into the long line of a Judge upon a Judge without end which I gave you some warning of before To Conclude When you have tired yourselves with these frivolous Expedients for the Ending of Controversies do what you can you will find it best to come to that which you disgrace under the Name of a Private Spirit the Good use whereof is that which must do the business Men must be Honest and hearken to Instruction and love Truth and remember that the Day of Judgment is coming This you cannot deny to be the Duty of All. And if you and every Body else could be brought to it then about plain Things there would be no Controversie at all and those about Points that are indeed difficult might do
Imprimatur Liber cui Titulus Several Captious Queries c. Guil. Needham May 10. 1688. Several Captious QUERIES Concerning the English Reformation First Proposed By Dean Manby an Irish Convert in Latin And afterwards by T.W. in English Briefly and Fully ANSWER'D By the late Reverend and Learned Dr. CLAGETT Preacher to the Honourable Society of Grays-Inn and Chaplain in Ordinary to His Majesty LONDON Printed by H. Clark for James Adamson at the Angel and Crown in St. Paul's Church-Yard MDCLXXXVIII AN ANSWER TO T. W's QUERIES Sect. 1 Quer. THe Church of England is either the whole Catholick Church or a Member thereof If a Member only Name me that Church or Congregation under the Sun whose Sacraments and Liturgy she embraces unless she have cut her self off form the rest of the Body Answ If the Church of Rome were spread over the Face of the whole Earth excepting here in England and nothing would serve but we or they must be the Catholick Church Reason would require that the Church of England should be so which is the better and not the Church of Rome which would be but the bigger Church But we pretend not to be the Catholick Church because we neither need nor ought to boast beyond Truth The Sacraments we embrace are received by All Christian Churches in the World and no Church ought to receive any more We embrace the Liturgies of the other Reformed Churches and use our own as they use their own and embrace ours We embrace all that honest Chistians can embrace in the Liturgies of the Vnreformed and we reject the rest We have not cut our selves off from the rest of the Body but the Church of Rome has done so because she is resolved to be All or Nothing Sect. 2 Quer. Does she allow the Sacraments of Lutherans or Calvinists Answ She allows and administers the same Sacraments that Lutherans and Calvinists do not because they are Sacraments celebrated by them or by any others but because they are Sacraments instituted by Christ. Sect. 3 Quer. From whence was Cranmer that first Patriarch or Reformer of the Church of England sent Who gave him Authority to preach his Reformed Gospel Was it just or honest for him to rise up against the Church of Rome by vertue of a Commission from her received And if so I pray inform me whether a Bishop or Minister fallen from the Church of England may not also take upon him to Preach against the Church of England by pretence of the Orders received from her hands Answ Cranmer was immediately sent by the Bishops that Ordained and Consecrated him Originally by Christ who left that Power in the Church by which they did so So far therefore as he was the First Reformer of the Church of England he did what became his Mission better than if he had gone on to maintain False Doctrins as the Patriarch of Rome did That he was the First Reformer was not his fault but theirs who went before him in that great Station and should have done the same thing but did it not The Gospel which he preached was not the Gospel of Man and therefore not his own but the Gospel of Christ Nor was it properly a Reformed Gospel which he preached since the Gospel of Christ is in all Ages one and the same But if because he reformed the Profession of the Church in some things which were no part of the Gospel though they were pretended to be so he must be said to have preached a Reformed Gospel neither was he to blame for that whose Duty it was to cast Errors out of the Church but they only were to blame who had been so careless and treacherous as to let them in He did rise up against the Church of Rome when he arose against the Corruptions of that Church which had obtained in England unless the Church of Rome cannot subsist without such notorious Errors as he rose up against He was not her Enemy unless he became so by telling her the Truth Nor is it true that he receiv'd his Commission from Rome though he receiv'd it by the hands of Bishops that were in servitude to that See For his Commission had been every whit as good if they had not been subject to the Roman Bishop as they ought not to have been But since his Obligation to Christ from whom he received his Commission by their hands was infinitely greater than to them it was just and honest in him to rise up against those Unchristian Doctrins and Practices which they maintained and no less justifiable then to have risen up against the Arian Heresie if he had received his Orders from Arian Bishops And if ever the Church of England should fall into the like Corruptions again which God forbid those Bishops and Ministers that have received Orders from her hands and who in discharge thereof take upon them to preach not against the Church of England but against the wicked Doctrines and Practices of the Church those Bishops c. I say will do not only what they may but what they ought to do and for the doing of which they shall be rewarded at the last day by the Great Bishop and Shepherd of Souls by whose Authority and Command they so did Sect. 4 Quer. Whether want of Mission be not an Error in the Foundation of any Church It being Theft and Robbery as our Saviour hath taught us not to enter by the Door into the Sheepfold Answ That Cranmer did or that our Pastors now do want Mission is Falshood insinuated by this Query Their Mission has been more Canonical than that of many of your Popes has been But for once to Answer directly to an Impertinent Question The want of such Mission does not destroy the Being or as you call it the Foundation of a Church Nor is that the Door of which our Saviour spake in Joh. X. since in the needs of the Church Good Shepherd may come into the Fold without Canonical Mission and it has on the other side too often happened that Thieves and Robbers have come into the Fold by it who came not but for to steal and to kill and to destroy Sect. 5 Quer. Whether Cranmer entred by the Parliament Door or by the Gate of the Scriptures But this latter is the Old Song of Hereticks and Sectaries perpetually boasting of Scripture I demand therefore Does not the Bible admit of various Interpretations Whence of necessity some Judge is to be assigned to determin which is the true Interpretation unless your Inclinations be to wrangle to all Eternity Answ To the first of these profound Interrogations I Answer thus That if Cranmer entred by the Parliament Door 't is a Door at which you whoever you are would be glad to enter too provided you could get in without first passing the Gate of the Scriptures which you shut up against men for ye neither go in yourselves neither suffer ye them that are entring to go in For your saying