mulieribus quas ad confessionem admittunt Scelestissimè fornicantur Luk 2. cap. 37. 1. They Priests do often most wickedly commit fornication with the women of there parishes which they admit to confession The like writeth Marsilius Patauinus in his booke intituled Desensor Pacis part 2. ca. 6. pag. 286. To your sixt accusation I answere that we exclude and banish our Sauiour Christ neither from the Sacrament of his supper nor from the hearts of the faithfull but acknowledge that as by faith hee dwelleth in the one so by Ephes 3 17 2. Cor. 13 5 the same hee is receiued of the Godly in the other Your false and grosse doctrine of Transsubstantiation which the Greeke Church neuer beleeued and the Latine Church lately defined as Erasmus saith wee iustly reiect and condemne â—râ—s Anno â—â— in 1. Cor. 7 We exhort men when they come to receiue that holy mysterie the Sacrament and pledge of our saluation in Christ to examine themselues and so to eate of that bread and drinke of that cup For hee that eate haâ—d drinketh vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. â—8 eateth and drinketh his owne damnation because he discerneth not the Lords bodie But if as you say sinfull liues consorte not with his sacred mysterie I meruaile how your Priests liues consorted with it which how holy they were I will shew hereafter Lastly you charge vs with a new negatiue religion wholy standing vpon negation of Sacraments ceremonies rites lawes customes and other practicall points of the Catholike Church wherevnto I answere that we deny nothing that God hath commanded in the holy canonicall Scripture the which as I haue before shewed is the onely rule of our Religion and life Indeede wee deny and defie your trifling traditions and vnwritten vanities and inuentions with the which you haue gone a whoring as the Prophet saith If you can shew that wee deny any thing which Psal 106. 39 God hath commaunded as wee can plainely prooue that you doe then spare not to charge vs with a new negatiue religion You deny the sufficiencie of the Scriptures and that all doctrine necessarie to saluation is contayned in them You deny the same Scriptures to bee in the vulgar tongue for all Gods people to reade and heare to their comfort You deny praier and the publicke seruice of God to be in the same vulgar tongue You deny Christ to bee our only mediator between God vs. You deny the Cup of Christs supper to Gods people You deny the lawful authority which Princes haue ouer their people subiects in all causes ecclesiasticall and temporall You deny mariage to ecclesiasticall ministers whereby what great and horrible wickednesse you haue caused I will hereafter declare You say we bring in for fasting feasting for praying playing c. Concerning your fasting consisting in a superstitious obseruing of times and diuersitie of meates and tending to the honouring of Saints and satisfying Gods iustice for your sinnes we deny it But fasting purely vsed according to Gods word to humble our soules before God to mortifie the wicked affections of our sinful flesh we allow and especially that great and principall fast in abstayning from sinne whereof Saint Augustine speaketh in these words Ieiunium autem magnum generale August in Ioan traâ—l â—7 distinct de consecra cap. Ieiunium est abstinere ab iniquitatibus ab illicitis voluptatibus seculi quod est perfectum ieiâ—nium in hoc seculo The great and generall fast is to abstaine from iniquities and vnlawfull pleasures of the world which is the perfect fast in this world Chrysostome saith Ieiunium dico abstinentiam à vitiis I say that fasting which is to abstaine from vices Chrysost in Genes hom 8. Hereby let it be discerned who doe most truely fast In deede I know that it is your manner much to glory in your writings and speeches of your outward fasting from meates as the Pharisee in the Gospell did who gloried Luke 18. 12. that he fasted twise a weeke which neither God in his law had required nor the Apostles of Christ for any thing wee reade vsed Whereby wee may note that true Godlines neither is to bee measured by such outward abstinece from meates nor is alwaies ioyned with it Iohn Matth. 11. 18 Baptist vsed greater austerity in his diet and abstinence from meates then our Sauiour Christ did yet was his life nothing so holy Iohns Disciples vsed more fasting Matth. 9. 14. then the Disciples of our Sauiour Christ did Yet it is not to be doubted but our Sauiours Disciples liued as godly or Tertul de Iâ—iâ—nio adueâ—s Psichicos Hierom. in Aggaeum cap. 1. pag. 230. more then they did The Montanists Heretikes were greater fasters then were the true Christians as Tertullian sheweth And S. Hierome writeth that they obserued three Lents in a yeare and yet were Heretikes condemned by the Church of God although then fauored by the Bishop of Rome as Tertullian sheweth in the beginning of his booke against Praxeas The Iewes vsed such great abstinence and fasting that they brought weakenes and sickenesse to their bodies as Saint Hierome writeth who neuerthe Hierorymus ad Algaesiam quast 10. lesse were enemies to our Sauiour Christ The Moscouites which neuer acknowledged the Popes authority be as great fasters as Papists are And so also be the Turkes And therefore these men neede not to boast so much of 1. Tim. 4. 8. their fasting Saint Paul saith that bodily exercise profiteth little but godlines is profitable to all things hath the promise of this life present that which is to come Howbeit as I will not deny but that there may be lesse fasting and more feasting then were requisit yet that there is more feasting and superfluitie in fare now especially in ecclesiastical persons I thinke it will be to hard for this man to proue Whence came these phrases As fat as an Abbot he hath a face like an Abbot and an Abbey Lubber but of their immoderate fare and feeding And how these men were giuen to gluttony excesse I will shew at this time but by one example Giraldus Cambrensis in his Book intituled Speculum Ecclesiae writeth that the Abbot and Monkes of Saint Swithens in Winchester came to King Henry the second hunting at Gilford in Surrey and fell downe in myre and durt before him pittifully crying out The King asked them what was the matter They answered that their Bishoppe had taken three dishes of meate from their dinners and suppers He asked them how many he had left vnto them They answered tenne but from the foundation of their house they had vsed daily to haue thirteen dishes at a meale The King turned to his Nobles and said By the eyes of God for that was his oath I thought their house had beene burnt and now I see it is but a matter concerning their paunches And then turning to the Abbots and Monkes
and opinions were euen the same which as you haue heard were maintained by the good faithfull people called Waldenses Pauperes de Lugduno Maister Fox sheweth out of Nicholas Triuet who died anno 1328. that the Albingenses Act. monumen tom 1 p. 299. 2. edit onis denyed transubstantiation in the Sacraments of Christs body and blood and that matriymony was not a Sacrament and further writeth that in some Error hee found that they did deale against the wanton Iâ— il pag. 35. wealth pride and tyranny of the Prelates and denied the popes authority to haue any ground of the Scriptures and that they could not away with there ceremonies and traditions as images pardons purgatory of the Romish Church calling them as some say blasphemous occupyings c. Henry Pantalion in his Chronographie affirmeth out of P. Aemilius that they denied Christs body Pag 98. to be in the bread of the Eucharist And a little before he writeth that one Hoyry a learned Monke of Tolosa did Pag 92. teach that prayers for the dead and to the dead excomucations of priests Pilgrimages consecrations of Chrisme are all vnprofitable wherevpon he was condemned Thus I haue shewed to satisfie this mans longing desire what I haue read of their Albingenses by which I haue bene moued to conceaue a good opinion of them and to accompt them for witnesses of Gods truth for the which they were so cruelly presecuted and destroyed by that Beast to whom Apacâ— 13 7. it was giuen to make warre with the Saintes and to ouercome them I doe confesse that I haue also reade not onely in this pelting paper but also in lying and prating Prateclus and other malitious enemies of Gods truth of other filthy and false opinions asscribed to them But this is no new deuise of the diuell but an old stratageme to attribute to the faithfull and Godly faulse titles and slanderous and filthy opinions and practises to bring them into hatred and to moue the world to persecute and destroy them So was Iesus Christ the sonne of God intreated being called a Samaritane a deceauer of the people and by Belzebub Math. 27 63. Luke 23 2. Math 12. 24. 9. 34. Act 24. the Prince of diuels to cast out diuels So was Saint Paul vsed being tearmed a pestilent and seditious fellow and chiefe maiâ—tainer of the herisie of the Nazarens So were the Christians in the primitiue Church handled who were slandered to kill children to eate their flesh and to Turtull in Apolog. drinke there bloud and in there assembles hauing put out the candles to commit adultery and incests So doth Gabr. pratcoleleuch haerae lib. 14 13. paup ac Lâ—gd that lying companion Gabriel Prateolus and the writer of this scroule deale with the walldenses otherwaiâ—â—â—lled Pauperaes de Lugduno whome they affirme to hold that carnall copulation betwixt men and women when the lust of the flesh burneth is lawfull to wome Aeneas Siluius doth not ascribe any such opinion In those daies the Papists were not growne to such impudencie in lying as now they are Thus wee see that it ought not to seeme strange vnto vs for filthy facts and false doctrines to be by malitious enemies falsely imputed to Gods true Saints and seruantes It were rather a maruaile if the diuell being by name and long practise a Slaunderer should leaue his old occupation in slaundering and defaming the faithfull fauorers of Gods truth But this man saith that I dissent from those Bishops D. Cowper and Iewell I answere that as I doe reuerence the memory of them so I do nothing herein differ from them For concerning B Cowper I say that not he but Sir Thomas Eliot did sette downe in the dictionary all that therein is written of the Albingenses and Albanenses as appeareth by the first edition of it by Sir Thomas Eliot himselfe printed by Thomas Barthâ—let anno Dom. 15. 42. hauing this title Bibâ—otheca Eliotae Eliotes Librarie There the reader shall find all those thinges written of the Albingenses and Albanenses without addition detraction or alteration before D. Cowper did deale in it D. Cowper in supplying of wordes that there wanted did leaue these things and such like especially concerning proper names as he found them and not as he himselfe did iudge of them As for the difference in iudgement betwixt Sir Thomas Eliot and mee concerning these Albingenses although I doe greatly reuerence the memorie of him for his learning and for his good labours to the aduancing thereof yet I doe not thinke my selfe bound to stand to his iudgement therein who might bee to much carried away with the corrupt errors which ouer much swaied in his time whereby hee did to little espic the diuels accustomed deuise and practise before mentioned much credit the false reports of their malicious aduersaries As touching that pretious Iewell and most learned Bishoppe whereas D. Harding writeth thus If ye meane Hus Hierome of prage Wicklesse Almarâ—rke Abâ—lard the Apostolikes Consuta of the Apolâ—g Peterbuisians Berenâ—arians Waldenses Albingenses Image-breakers and such like which euer found fauâ—te with the Church c he answereth in these words Of Abailard Defens of the Apolâ—g and Almerike and certaine other your strange names if they haue taught any thinge contrary to the truth of God we haue no skill they are none of ours of Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage and Berengarius and other like vertuous men wee haue no cause to be a hamed c. This is all that Bishop Iewel saith in which words he doth not once name the Albingenses much lesse impute those filthy and false opinions to them Nether doth he absolutely affirme that Abailaâ—d and Almarike or any of the rest maintained any thing contrary to the truth of God but conditionly saith if they taught any thing coâ—trary to the truth of God we haue no skill they are none of ours to the which I say Amen But that B. Iewel did not accompt the Albingenses for wicked heretikes it may hereby appeare in that hee thought well of the See defens of the Apolo vt 1. cap. 2. diuis 1. part 4. â—â—p 1â— diuis 1. pag. 503. Waldenses which were the same that were the Albingenses as I haue before shewed but diuersly called in diuers places and did repute them for good and Godly men By this that I haue said the iudicious reader may see that there is no difference at all betwixt me and these reuerend and learned Bishops concerning the Albingenses as this ignorant Romanist doth vainely imagine And if there had beene some diuersity in iudgement herein betwixt vs I in thinking well and they in hardly iudging of them it had bene a matter of no great moment Heretofore vnder â—latiâ—a in Bonifac 8. Gabr. prateo pag. 206. Popery many worshipped Herman of Ferrara for a Saint whome Pope Boniface the 8. caused to be digged vp and burned for an heritike Some Popes
AN APOLOGIE FOR THE RELIGION established in the Church of England BEING AN ANSWER TO T. W. HIS 12. Articles of the last edition In this impres sion recognized and much inlarged Also Answers to three other writings of three seuerall Papists By ED BVLKLEY Doctor of Diuinitie Prouerb 14. 15. The foolish will beleeue euery thing but the prudent will consider his wayes Lamenta 3. 40 Let vs search and trie our wayes and turne againe vnto the Lord. Chrysost in Genes 〈◊〉 â— Quocirca diuinae Scripturae vestigia sequamur neque â—â—ramus eos qui temerâ— quiduis blaterant i. Let vs follow the steps of the holy Scripture and not endure or abide them that rashly babble euery-thing AT LONDON Printed by George Eld for Arthur Iohnson and are to be sold at his shop at the signe of the white Horse ouer-against the great North doore of S. Paules Church 1608. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE SIR THOMAS EGERTON KNIGHT LORD Keeper of the great Seale of England Chamberlaine of the Countie Palatine of Chester and one of his Maiesties most honourable priuie Councell grace and peace be multiplied WHen I consider right Honourable the estate of England in these our dayes I cannot better compare it then with the estate of the kingdome of Iudah vnder K. Iosias expressed shortly yet effectually by Sophonie the Prophet who liued preached in that time For as then God gaue to that people that worthy godly King who zealously 2. King 25. rooted out Idolatrie and planted Gods true worship agreeable to his law so God in great mercy hath giuen vs our most gratious Queene Elizabeth by whose godly meanes Idolatrie hath beene abolished Gods true religion and seruice restored his holy word truly and sincerely preached and peace and tranquilitie among vs long maintained And as in those daies vnder King Iosias notwithstanding that godly and zealous reformation there was great wickednes among the people as the said Sophonias sheweth For there were then which worshipped Sopho. 1. 5. vpon the rouffes of their houses the host of heauen and which worshipped and sware by the true and onely God Iehoua and by Malchaâ— their Idoll and 6. such as were turned backe from after the true God and sought him not nor inquired after him and 8. that did weare strange apparell and others that filled their maisters houses with robbery and deceit 9. and such as were frozen in their dregges and said in 12. their hearts the Lord will neither doe good nor euill And Ierusalem was then a filthie and spoyling Chap. 3. 1. 2. citie which heard not Gods voyce receiued not instruction trusted not in the Lord and drew not neere vnto her God c. Euen so how these sinnes abound at this time in this land I thinke there are but few but doe see and none that truely feareth God but doth lament To omit other sinnes here mentioned as then there were which worshipped Iehoua the onely true God and Malcham their Idoll euen so there be now not a few which to please the Prince and State pretend outwardly to like of religion established and yet inwardly in their hearts fauour Idolatrie and wicked worshippings repugnant to the same And as then many were turned backe from after God and sought him not nor inquired after him euen so now there are many which be reuolted from Gods holy worship agreeable to his word and vtterly forsake the holy assemblies where Gods word is truly preached the Sacraments are according to Christs institution rightly ministred and Gods holy name faithfully called vpon These with Lots wife looke backe vnto Genes 19. Numb 14. Sodome and are with the Israelites in heart turned back into Egypt desiring rather to eate onions and garlike there then to feed vpon the heauenly Manna of Gods blessed word Of these thus turned backe from seeking after God they be most dangerous which being deceiued themselues endeuour by all meanes both by speaking and writing to seduce and deceiue others Such be the Seminarie Priests and Iesuites who although they be at this present time at leastwise in outward apparance at deadly fewd among themselues writing most bittely one against another yet they all agree in resisting Gods truth seducing the simple and in labouring most earnestly to set vp againe their Dagon of the Masse fallen downe before the Arke of Christs Gospell To this end they write lewd lying and slanderous Pamphlets wherein they traduce the truth and faithfull fauourers thereof deceiue the ignorant and confirme in error their ouer affectioned fauorers who without triall or examination ouer rashly receiue and ouer lightly beleeue whatsoeuer is broached by them Of these lying Libels there came one to my hands a yeere past and more pretended to be printed at Antwerpe 1600. wherein is boldly affirmed but faintly proued that we haue no faith nor religion that of vs both the learned and ignorant of the Greeke and Latine tongues be Infidels that wee know not what wee beleeue that we are bound in conscience both neuer to aske forgiuenesse of our sinnes and also to auoide all good workes that we make God the author of sinne and worse then the diuell These and such other shameles assertions and false slanders when I read it came into my heart that Master Thomas Wright with whose spirit I had beene acquainted was the venter of this ware In which opinion I was afterward confirmed for that both some of his fauourers could not denie it and in a written copie therof taken in a search in Shropshire and sent vnto me these two letters T. W. were set in the end of it This lewd Libell although in respect of the matter voide both of truth and learning deserued rather to be despised then earnestly answered yet because the author of it thinketh so highly of himself and so basely and contemptuously of vs giuing out in certaine written conferences which he hath dispersed abroad in this land and some faithfull men haue seene that wee be vnlearned and so giuen to wordly affaires that we bestow no time or but little in studie I although the meanest and vnmeetest of many was moued to wtite this answere thereby to confute these calumnies to cleere the truth to confirme the faithfull and if by Gods gracious blessing it might be to reclaime and reforme the ignorant and seduced Whereof I haue the lesse hope for that as they imitate those wicked Israelits which refused to hearkeÌ„ turned away their shoulder stopped their Zach. 7. 11. eares that they might not heare made their hearts as an Adamant stone least they should heare the law the words which the Lord of hosts sent in his spirit by his Prophets So they doe fully follow the peruerse Pagans which most obstinately refused to read godly bookes written by Christians as that ancient eloquent Christian Lactantius in these eloquent words declareth Non est apud me dubium Constantine Imperator Lactant. lib. 5. cap. 1.
are Infidels The Maior cannot bee denied Because faith must he infallible and impossible to be erronius or changeable But faith which is builded vppon priuate exposition of Scripture is subiect to error and change and consequently vpon better aduice consideration may be altered The Minor I proue for either they build their faith vppon their owne priuat opinion in expounding of Scriptures the exposition of the Church the Fathers or Councels but not vppon these three Egro vpon their owne priuate exposition Some Protestants allow the Fathers and their expositions so far forth as they agree with Gods word no farther but this is nothing else but to delude the world for what meane they when they say they wil allow theÌ„ so far forth as they agree with the Scriptures Meane they perhaps that if the Fathers bring Scriptures to proue any point of Religion now in controuersie to allow that point as true If so why then reiect they S. Augustine Aug lib de â—ura Agen pro mortuis and other Fathers who bring Scripture to proue prayer for the dead yea and all controuersies almost in Religion the Fathers proue by Scripture when they dispute vpon them Or perhaps they mean to admit the Fathers wheÌ„ they alledge Scripture but in such matters as euery ProtestaÌ„t shal allow of or that they bee doubtfull or seeme in some sort or shew to be conformable to their fancies and fit their new coined Gospell and in this sense who seeth not that euery paltry companion will make himselfe not only expositor of Christs word but also will prefer his exposition before all ancient Fathers when they daunce not after his pipe and consent not with his heresies Answere HEre wee haue a syllogisme to the Maior or first proposition whereof I answer that they which vniuersaly in all maters and doctrines of saluation doe follow priuate and false expositions of the Scripture bee Infidels but in some places of Scripture a man may follow a priuate and false exposition of the Scripture and beleeue Hilarius in Matth cap. 16 Ambros in Luc lib. 10. the same to bee true and yet bee no Infidell Hilary followed a priuat and false exposition of the place Come behind mee Sathan and Ambrose of Peters deniall of Christ and Hierome in like manner of Peters dissembling with the Iewes Galat. 2. yea and all the Fathers haue in sundry places of Scripture followed priuat and vntrue expositions and haue beleeued the same to bee true and August de Doctri Christ lib. 1. cap. 36. yet they were no Infidels Saint Augustine saith well Quisquis igitur Scripturas diuinas c. Who-soeuer therefore doth thinke him-selfe to vnderstand the holy Scriptures or any part of them so that by that his vnderstanding hee doth not edifie and build this double loue of God and of his neighbour doth not yet vnderstand them But whosouer doth draw such a sense or exposition from them as may be profitable to the edifying of this loue and yet doth not deliuer that which he whome hee readeth shall be proued in that place to haue ment is not dangerously or wickedly deceiued neither doth hee at all lye And againe Ibidem Sed quisquis in Scripturis aliud sentit quam ille qui scripsit illis non mentientibus fallitur sed tamen vt dicere coeperam c. But whosoeuer in the Scriptures doth conceiue any other sense then he that did write it did meane he is deceiued although the Scriptures do not lye yet as I began to say if he be deceiued by that sence which doth edefie loue and charity which is the end of the commandement is so deceiued as if a man missing and leauing his way yet goeth by the field thither whither the way doth lead him Hereby you may perceiue that euery one which followeth a priuat or false exposition of some place of the Scripture is not an Infidell But to leaue this and to come to your Minor or second proposition I auouch the same to bee false and doe deny that we build our faith vpon priuat or false expositions of the Scripture We say with Saint Peter that no prophesie of 2. Tet. 1. 20 the Scripture is of any pruat interpretation But we are to take that sense which the holy Ghost intendeth and meaneth And we say that many things be most plaine and euident in the holy Scriptures so that the simplest may vnderstand them and get knowledge and comfort by them So Chrysostome saith An ista aliquam expositionem desiderant Chrisost ad Rom. Hom. 19. an non clara sunt etiam vehementer stupidis i. Doe these neede any exposition are they not cleere and manifest August in Euang. Ioannis tract 50. euen to those that be very dull So Saint Augustin saith Quaedam in Scripturis tam manifesta sunt vt potius auditorem quam expositorem desiderent i. There be some things in the Scriptures so manifest that they require rather a hearer then an expounder So saith Iustinus Martyr 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Just. Martyr dialo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 page 68 edit Robert Stephan 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. Marke giue heed to those things which I shall recite out of the holy Scriptures which neede not to be expounded but onely to be heard And whereas we confesse that there be some things hard in the Scriptures wee say that the same are to bee vnderstoode and expounded by conferring them with other places of the Scriptures And that no forraine or priuat exposition is to bee brought to them but that which is gathered out of the Scriptures them-selues So Chrysostom saith Scriptura seipsam exponit lectorem errare Chryso in Gent homil 12. non sinit the Scripture expoundeth it selfe and suffereth not the reader to erre Againe Semper enim quando In 2. Cor. homil 9. quid obscurum loquitur seipsum iterum interpretatur Whensoeuer Paul doth speake any thing obscurely he doth alwaies expound him-selfe So saith Saint Augustine Magnifice August de doct Christi lib 2. cap. 6. igiter salubriter c. that is The holy Ghost hath so excellently and holesomely tempered the holy Scriptures that with plaine places hee doth put away hunger and with obscure places take away lothsomnesse For there is nothing gathered from those hard places which is not to be found most plainely vttered in others So Saint Basil saith Quae ambigua sunt tectè dicta esse in quibusdam diuinae Basil Quaest comp explic quaest 267. scripturae locis vide tur ea ab aliis locis manifestis declarantur that is What things be doubtfull or seeme to bee couertly spoken in some places of holy scripture the same are expouÌ„ded by other plaine places Againe Ecce nunc audi ipsam seipsam declarantem scripturam Behold now heare Idem Hexam homil 4. Irenaeus lib. 3. cap. 12. the Scripture expounding it selfe So saith Irenaeus Ostensiones quae
sunt in scripturis non possunt ostendi nisi ex scripturis The expositions which bee in the Scriptures cannot bee shewed but out of the Scriptures So Theodoretus saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theodor dia. log 1. Hilarius de trinitate lib. 9 i. Thou needest no strange exposition For the Euangelist expoundeth himself So Hilarius saith Dictorum intelligentia aut ex praepositis aut ex consequentibus expectetur The vnderstaÌ„ding of the sayings is to be looked for either of those things which go before or those that follow after So Clemens saith Ex ipsis scripturis sensum capere veritatis oportet From the scriptures themselues we must take the sense and Distinst 37. cap. Relatum exposition of truth Finally so Pope Pius the second Ab ipsa scriptura reciptendus est sensus veritatis The vnderstanding of the truth is to bee receiued from the scripture it selfe Aeneas Siluiâ—â— epist 130 Now how carefully and diligently wee endeuour to doe this that is to expound the holy Scriptures truely and sincerely by the Scriptures themselues God knoweth our writings sermons do shew and the consciences of those that reade and heare them can witnesse with vs. And this is also an argument hereof that you cannot bring forth any places of the Scriptures which wee falsely expound or seeke violently and wickedly to wrest from the true and simple sence of the holy Ghost contained in the holy scriptures The which this cauiller should haue done and thereby declare how wee build our faith vpon priuate and false expositions But let vs see and examine his proofe of his Minor which is that because wee build not our faith vpon the exposition of the Church the Fathers or Councells therefore wee build vpon our owne priuate exposition I answere that although we reuerence the iudgement of the true Church of God the holy Fathers and Councels yet by this that I haue before alledged it plainely appeareth that we are to fetch the sense and exposition of the Scriptures not from them but from the scriptures themselues And wheras you by the Church do meane the Romish Church I will shew hereafter that shee hath corrupted and falsely expounded the scriptures As touching the Doctors we are not bound vnto their expositions which sometimes be Card. Caietanus in praefatione in lib. 5. Mosis not sound and sometimes differ among themselues Yea Cardinall Caietanus plainely auoucheth this and doubteth not to bring sometimes senses and expositions to the scriptures which be not in all the Doctors His words be these Nullus itaque detestetur nouum sacrae scripturae sensum ex hoc quod dissonat a priscis doctoribus Sed scrutetur perspicacius textum ac contextum scripturae si quadrare inuenerit laudet Deum qui non alligauit expositionem scripturarum sacrarum pristorum doctorum sensibus c. that is Let no man hereupon detest or dislike a new exposition of the holy scripture because it dissenteth from the old Doctors But let him more sharpely search the text and Coherence of the scriptures and if hee finde it to agree therewith let him praise GOD who hath not bound the exposition of the holy Scriptures to the senses and expositions of the ancient Doctors Yea Bishippe Fisher a great patrone of the Popes doubteth not to affirme that many things in the Io. Roffens Assert Lutheran artic 18. fol. 206. Gospell and other scriptures bee now more exactly discussed and more plainely vnderstood then they were of old time of the Fathers and that there be yet many obscure and hard places which will be much better vnderstood of the posteritie Andradius also the Iesuite as he doth defend Caietane in the one so doth he ioyne with B. Fisher in the other as the learned may reade in his defence of the tridentine faith lib. 2. pag. 160. et 161. where by it appeareth that their iudgement was that the exposition of the scriptures is not to bee tied vnto the Fathers and then much lesse to the Councells which doe not expound in order the bookes of the scriptures as the Fathers did but onely examined some places and discussed some Doctrines which were in controuersie Moreouer whereas Saint Augustine in his foure bookes de doctrina christiana entreateth largely of the exposition of the Scriptures and giueth many good and learned lessons concerning the same and namely seauen rules of Ticonius the Donatist which hee commendeth and calleth them keyes to open the scripture neither he nor Ticonius doe make mention of these rules which the author of this pamphlet doth here set downe nor referre vs vnto them Therefore these bee new coined rules of your owne voyde of the testimony of antiquitie But that the Christian reader may see who they be that build their faith vpon priuate and false expositions of the scripture let vs come to the examination of some particular places of the scripture and see who they be that follow priuate and false expositions The wordes of our Math. 26. 27 Sauiour Christ drinke ye all of it they expound that Christ spake them onely to his Apostles which as they terme them were Priests and therefore this bindeth Priests to drinke of the Cup but not the lay people So saith Iohn Fisher Io. Rossens Assert Luther confut arti 16 the Bishop of Rochester Bibite ex eo omnes Quae verba procul-dubio solis erant dicta sacerdotibus quibus potestas tum fuerat collata conficiendi sacramenti nimirum hijs verbis hoc facite in meam commemorationem Drinke all of this which words without all doubt were spoken onely to Hosius de com sub vtraque specie Confess Petri. cap. 40. contr Brentium lib. 3 Doct. Hard. in his answere to M. Iewel arti 3 Andrad ortho explicat lib. 7 pag. 606. Aenas Syluius epist â—30 pag. 672. Priests to whom powre also was giuen to make the Sacrament that is by these words doe this in remembrance of me The same in effect wrote Cardinal Hosius Doctor Harding Andradeus Aeneas Siluius and others This exposition although peraduenture it will not bee counted priuate for that it is maintained by so many great men yet it is a very false and absurd exposition and easily to bee discerned by any simple man For if these words Drinke ye all of it were spoken onely to Priests then likewise these Take yee ate ye were spoken onely to Priests And so by your wise exposition as none but Priests by these words are bound to drinke of the Cup so none but Priests are bound to take and eate the bread as it was the manner and custome of Jo. Gerson tom 1. declar defect viro ecclesiast the common people in Liuonia not to receiue this Sacrament at all as Gerson writeth But if our Sauiour Christ did speake the one to all both Priests and people why not the other If the one doe binde all why not the other Moreouer Saint Paul
hinder it would suffer others to do it yet there Popeholy deuotion hath moued them to translate into English to publish in print aboue an hundred yeares past there golden Legend fully fraughted with lying fables as is before signified and is by some papistes confessed More-ouer will you confesse that because your Popes Sixtus the fift and Clemens the eight haue beene moulding a new your vulgare latine translation as I haue shewed that therefore it was before false and nought Surely whatsoeuer you will herein confesse both this their moulding and the booke it selfe did plainly shew that it was become very mouldy and corrupt and full of foule faults as sundry Papists haue acknowledged And why may not we as well bee moulding againe our translations as these Popes haue beene moulding this their mouldy translation which when their kingdome most florished by little vse and much rest had gotten much rust Aud therefore vntill you haue answered the same you may bee ashamed to brag of his pregnant proofs which were so weake and cauils so greatand many that he rather discouered his own folly then discredited our translators What Maister Broughton writeth concerning our translation I doe not knowe neither do I greatly care yet this I say although that our translations were made in the feare of God to profit Gods Church and people according to the measure of the grace of God bestowed vpon the laborers in that holy worke and be voyd of wilfull corruptions either for doctrine or manners yet I do not thinke them to be voyde of imperfections in respect of propriety of words and phrases wherein they may be somewhat reformed and amended And hard it is to haue a translation so exact and perfit but that some such imperfectnes may be in it which yet be not repugnant either to holy doctrine or good life And for asmuch as this man of malice would faine if hee could discredit our translations and cause the Reader to doubt of the truth of them I wil shew not onely the good Christian but also the Romish Catholike y◠hath vnderstanding of the Latine tongue how he may discerne and know the truth and faithfulnesse of our translations and so not to relie vpon the credit of our Ministers There is a Latine translation of the old Testament made from the Hebrew very well and learnedly by Sanctes Pagninus an Italian and a dominicke Frier a man excellentlie learned in the Hebrew tongue for I will giue him and his worke their due and deserued praise and commendation and not doe as this libeller and his fellowes vse to doe who of enui◠and malice wherewith their hearts bee infected and possessed cannot giue a good word to any thing we do though it be neuer so good and Godly This translation hee did dedicate to Pope Clemens the feauenth Let the Reader compare our translations especially of the latter editions with the said translation and see whether in any substantiall matter of faith and life hee can finde any corruptions and any great and notorious dissensions from the same And the like I may say of Erasmus translation of the new Testament dedicated to Pope Leo the tenth and allowed by him Let Isay the Reader compare our translations with these and although hee may finde some difference in words and phrases yet in matters of substance which concerne either the doctrine of faith or precepts of good life I am sure hee shall finde a goodly and Godly harmonie and agreement to his comfort and contentation And lastly I wil offer to this challenger who offereth challenge of disputation with vs and to al his partakers that for one fault of moment or weight that they shall finde in our translation especially as I said of the latter editions wherein they differ from the originall fountaines of the Hebrew and Greeke I will vndertake to finde sixe yea ten greater and fouler in that vulgar Latine translation which the councell of Trident hath most absurdly confirmed and made authentical And therefore let neither the Godly Christian Reader nor the seduced Catholike be disswaded from reading of our translations nor doubt of the truth of them But this hath beene in all ages the drift of the Diuell to seeke to discredite and diffame those Godly men that haue labored in Gods vineyard and haue indeuored to translate his holy word to the comfort and saluation of his elect and chosen people How Saint Hierome of old and Erasmus of late were vsed I haue elsewhere shewed So this cauiller dealeth now with that blessed man of God and constant Martyr of Iesus Christ Maister Tindall who as hee did patiently and constantly beare and abide their furious crueltie and confirmed the truth of God which hee had taught with the shedding of his bloud in flaming fire so hee needeth not my defence Who was a man of such mortification and Godly life that I haue knowne some of great credite and authoritie that knew him and liued with him at Antwerpe that would say of him that if a man could bee like God it was Tindall I doubt not but he was indued with much more Godlines then a hundreth of your Popes whom their owne friends and fauorers call for their horrible wickednesse Monstra Portenta Monsters of mankinde But he that iustifieth Platina in Benedioto 4. Christophoro 1. Ioan. 13. prou 17. 15. Psal 1 16. Rom. 3. the wicked and hee that condemneth the innocent euen they both are abhominatiō to God That al men may erre wee doe confesse Omnis homo Mendax all men be liers and generall councells which consist of men may erre and haue erred wee doe not doubt But of this it shall bee impertinent to speake at this present I will onelie now retort your argument vpon you Whosoeuer relieth his faith vpon man hath no faith but all English Papists that vnderstand not the Hebrew Greeke and Latine and reade the Remish translation relie their faith vpon man videl the translator of that Testament ergo all such English Papists haue no faith The like may bee said of them that reade the Latine which relie their faith vpon the councell of Trent who were men Againe whosoeuer relieth his faith vpon man hath no faith all Papists relie their faith vpon the Pope who I trow is a man ergo all Papists haue no faith And this shall suffice for answere to your third article The Pamphlet The Protestants know not what they beleeue 4. Article THe Protestants know not what they beleeue nor why they beleeue that they know not why they beleeue I haue shewed before For that the ground of their beleefe is not the authoritie of scripture of councells of Doctors nor of the Church but their owne fancie And that they know not what they beleeue is manifest because they haue no rule whereby to know what is matter of faith and what is not Some say the sphere of their faith is extended solely and wholy to the word of God set
an Heretike for all Heretikes doe as much But Maister T. W. for I will not misname you by H. T. dic sodes tell vs in sooth and sadnesse Do Heretikes beleeue the scriptures I in my poore ignorance haue heretofore thought that Heretikes beleeued erronious and false doctrines repugnant and contrary to the scriptures and that therevpon this argument would haue holden water viz. that they which beleeue false doctrines doe not beleeue the holie Scriptures which containe nothing but new doctrine but Heretikes beleeue false doctrines ergo they beleeue not the holie Scriptures Tell vs also will Heretikes haue the sphere of their faith extended solie and wholie to the worde of GOD set downe in holy writ Then this saying of Tertullian which in my poore ignorance I haue thought that neuer any misliked vnlesse hee were an Heretike will not goe for currant Aufer deniquae haereticis c. Take away from Heretikes Tertul. deresurrect carnis whatsoeuer the Ethnikes haue thought and taught that they may trie their questions Onelie by the Scriptures and they cannot stand For how can this bee that they which beleeue the Scriptures cannot stand if their doctrines bee tried onely by the scriptures But you will say that Heretikes professe that they beleeue the scriptures But is this all one with you for Heretikes to profeâ—â—e the beleefe of the scriptures and in Tiâ— 1. 16. deede to beleeue them Saint Paul saith that some professe to know GOD and by workes do denie him Some also professed themselues to bee Iewes that is to say worshippers Apoca. 2. 9. of GOD as you doe now professe yourselues to bee Catholikes and some to bee of the societie of Iesus when both they were and you are the synagogue and of the societie of sathan Some professed themselues to bee Iohn 8. 39. 40. the Children of Abraham which did not the workes of Abraham but their faither was the diuell as our Sauiour Christ told them Euen so Heritikes may professe Psal 44. that they beleeue the Scriptures when indeede they beleeue them not but reiect the truth of them and beleeue false and damnable doctrines repugnant vnto them Heretikes bee theeues which endeuor to steale away the truth from the people of whom Saint Chrysostome saith Qâ—i sacra non vtitur scriptura sed ascendit aliunde Chrysost in Iorm hom 58. idest non concessa via fur est Hee is a theefe that vseth not the scripture hee saith not that beleeueth the scripture but clymeth into the sheepefold by an other way which is not allowed Of the true sense and exposition of the Scripture I haue intreated at large before Onely now I will ioyne this issue with you vpon these words of Saint Hierome recorded 24. Quaest 3. Haeâ—sis by Gratian in the decrees Quicunque aliter scripturam intelligit c. Whosoeuer expoundeth the scripture otherwaies then the sense of the Holie Ghost by whome it was written doth require although hee haue not departed from the Church yet hee may bee called an Heretike Let them with good will of vs and you that shall soundlie bee prooued to expound the Scriptures other-waies then the sense of the Holie Ghost requireth bee called accounted condemned and punnished Heritikes yea your Expositions bee so false and for ours true that some Papists and euen some of your sweete bretheren the Iesuites are forced by the euidence of Apa Cathel part 2 lib. 5. cap. 17. 18. 19. c. truth to forsake yours and to approoue ours as M. D. Morton hath learnedly and largely declared What you or any other Heretikes say of our Religion beleefe and expositions wee little regard as long as you cannot prooue them to bee hereticall and wee are by the worde of GOD well assured that they bee orthodoxall As touching the book of the Canticles of Sollomon we by the Scriptures doe beleeue that it is the worde of God Saint Paule speaking of the Scripture contained in the canonicall bookes of the old Testament and receiued by the Church of Israell saith that the whole Scripture is inspired of God But this booke of the Canticles was with the other books both of Sollomâ—n and of the rest of the old Testament receiued by the Church of Israell therefore by Saint Paules 2 Tim. 3. 16. iudgement it was inspired of God and so consequently the worde of God as well as others But if we did ioyne herein either with some wicked Anabaptistes now or with some old Hertikes heretofore who haue denied this book to be of the Canon of the Scripture as Phylastrius writeth some did whose opinion we abhorre yet from this particular Jn Catall cap. 133. you could not inferre the proofe of your article being generall that the Protestants know not what they beleeue But herein you do as soundly and substantially reason as Bellarmine and others of you do that because the Enuch did not vnderstand that obscure propheticall speech of Isaias which hee was reading when Philip came to him therefore hee vnderstood nothing in the Prophet Isaias Yea and that all the Scripture is so hard and obscure that it is not expedient for the lay people to read it Concerning the alteration of the Sabbath wee gather by the Scriptures and thereby do beleeue that it was made by the Apostles 1. Cor. 16. 2. Apoca. 1. 10. As your owne fellowes of Rhemes in their annotations vpon these places do confesse And therefore the Sabbath we now obserue is warranted by the Scriptures As for that idle speech of yours of generall and perticuler beleeuing thinges in the Scripture little pertinent to the proofe of your article I answer briefly that although neither all Protestants nor Papistes haue perfect and distinct knowldge of all the Scripture Yet God hath so manifestly expressed therein all thinges needfull to our saluation that it is a most perfect rule of faith and life as is before out of Beda alledged although some men blinded by sinne and mallice do not see them no more then men blinde in body see the cleare light of the Sunne nor doe rightly vse this right rule giuen of God vnto them Chrisostome saith Quaecunquâ— necessâ—ria sunt manifesta sunt Whatsoeuer In 2 Thess Hom. 3. thinges are necessary are manifest Againe Scripturae et seruâ— c. The Scriptures are easie to bee vnderstood both of seruants and misticall people of widdowes In Math. Hom. 1. and boyes and to him that is very Ignorant And whereas you would haue the Councels Doctors and Church the rule of our faith and life bring such like plaine places out of the Scriptures and Doctors for the proofe of it then we wil yeeld vnto you As touching the Apostles creed we acknowledge it to be a briefe abridgement of the especiall and principal points of Christian faith doctrine yet there bee some truthes which are not particularly expressed in the same But whereas you say or rather falsely slaunder that the
eight for assuming of such a preheminence vnto him Read the Annales of Scotland and you shall finde the prefumptious presbiterie euery foote opposing themselues against our Kings authoritie as though hee had nothing to doe with the kirke Looke into the cariage of our precifians at home and you shall finde them in shew to professe it but in deedes and effects really to denie it For if the approue his supremacy with what face can they deny his ordinaÌ„ces in matters of Religion why weare they not Vestimentes Surplises the Cappe and Tippet Why refuse they to Baptise with the signe of the Crosse Why subscribe they not to the Booke of common praier why obey they not the Ecclesiasticall cannons established by his Maiesties authoritie no other reason of this obstinate repugnance can bee yeelded then that in verie truth they doe not in conscience allow of his supremacy 2. Is not the authoritie of Bishoppes their power to create Ministers their degree in dignitie aboue ordinarie Curates and pastors a matter of faith and so neerelie toucheth the gouernment of the Church that if this Hereticall order bee abolished the whole forme of Christes Church is presentlie confounded 3. The obseruation of feastes and holie daies infringed by Puritanes maintained by Protestants is it but a ceremonie were not the obstinate impugning thereof a sufficient reason to censure them for Heretikes Did not the Councell of Nice condemne the Quartoderimeni for Heretikes who would onelie haue obserued their Easter day vpon the foureteenth daie of the month of March what if they had called our precisians to the barre who will haue it wholie abolished Questionlesse they would haue branded them in a farre deeper degree of heresie then the Quarto-derimani 4. Is not the obseruation of Lent and other fasting daies a matter of more moment then trifles or then things indifferent Did not Saint Epiphanius censure Aerius of heresie for denyning these prescript times for fasting for albeit they bee not precisely set downe in Scriptures and therein commanded to bee obserued yet they beeing either ordained by the Apostles or instituted by the Church which had authoritie to appoint fastes at least as well as the Puritane Presb terie without doubt hee that callâ—th this holie institution either doctrine of diuells or torture of consciences or restraint of Euangelicall libertie ought by the iudgement of all true Protestantes to bee condemned for a Pagan and Infidell who will not submit his soule to the censure of the Church 5. The Puritanes blasphemously pronounce and ignorantly defend that Christ suffered the paines of hell vpon the Crosse and that in his passionall agony and agonizing greife did principally consist the satisfaction of Christ for the redemption of man from those eternall tormentes of hell and thinke you this is a trifle a rite or ceremony This faith the Puritans professe this blaspheny the Protestants detest 6. The descention of Christ to hell is no doubt but a trifle a ceremonie a matter of small importance it is but an article of our Creed and yet this article the Puritanes really deny the which all Protestants stedfastly beleeue 7. That the second person in Trinitie receiued his diuinity from his father is but a trifle a point not much material to our beleefe yet this being denied the mystery of the holy Trinity can not bee beleeued for it absolutely taketh away the nature of a sonne and consequently the admirable procession of the sâ—cond person and so ouer throweth all the mysterie of the Trinity This principall part of Christianity Protestants approoue and Puritanes improoue 8. Iomit here many more pettie differences in matters of faith the which were sufficient to make them condemne one an other not onelie in accidents and ceremonies but also in the substance and principall partes of Religion as in that the Precisians denie that in Baptisme our sinnes bee remitted but onely take it for a seale of that grace God gaue them by his eternall election That Protestants confesse that in the Sacrament we are washed by Gods spirit from originall sinne 9. The Puritanes condemn the coÌ„munion booke as irreligious and erronious the Protestantes commend it as Orthodoxall and Religious 10. The Protestants vse the Cosse in Baptisme as a holie signe fit for the profession of Christ his faith and Religion the Puritans exclame against it as an humane inuention anda point of superstition 11. Protestants defend that imposition of hands in confirmation is a signe of the fauour and goodnesse of GOD towards them The Puritanes auouch that this is a flat lie and that they testifie therein that doth that he neuer did 12. The Protestants in fine will vse Vestments Musicke Orgaines Surplesses and diuers other ceremonies in diuine seruice and administration of Sacraments all which the Puritanes condemne as will-worshippe and not being commanded by God to bee superstitious All these I say I omit and many more which are to be seene in the Puritanes supplication to the Parliament where two and thirty differences are assigned and onely haue thought good to aduertise euery discreete protestant to consider the seauen precedent differences for there is neuer a one of them which the Puritane defendeth not to bee a matter of faith and the Protestant is bound in consâ—icence to condemne him for obstinately maintaining the contrarie to bee an Heretike the reason is euident for the rule square that Protestantes and Puritans both hold to know an heresie is this whatsoeuer is contrarie to Gods word is an heresie if it be obstinatly defended but all the foresaid seauen points in controuersie are by the one part prooued contrarie to Gods word and by the other auouched to bee grounded vpon the same therefore we may well conclude that if one error in faith with obstinacie defended sufficeth to make an heretike what shal we iudge of the Puritane who so manly defendeth so many Sure this I will auerr that they differ in substance of Religion and not onely in accidents and ceremonies And finally they haue no argument to prooue that they haue the true Church true Religion true faith which all heretikes which euer were wil not bring to condemne the Church as well as they For example they alleadge Scriptures so did the Arrians they contemne Councels the Arrians did not regard them they challenge to themselues the true interpretation the same did all heretikes to this day And to conclude they call themselues the little flocke of Christ to whome God hath reuealed his truth and illumited them from aboue all which the Donatists with as good reason and better arguments did arrogate vnto themselues The same I say of Pelagians Nestorians Eutychians with all the rabble of other damned heretikes And to conclude these articles of faith I say that if the principles of the Protestants religion be true Saint Paul himselfe exhorteth vs to infidelity which I proue thus Whosoeuer exhorteth vs to doubt of that which we are bound to beleeue by faith exhorteth to
infidelity But S. Paul doth exhort vs to doubt of our saluatioÌ„ which we are bound to beleeue by faith according to the Protestants religion ergo S. Paul exhorteth vs to infidelity The Maior is plaine for to doubt of matters in faith is manifest infidelity because whosoeuer doubteth whether God hath reuealed that which indeed be hath reuealed being sufficiently proposed as reuealed vertually doubteth whether God saith truth or lieth The Minor is proued by the testimonie of S. Paul Cum timore tremore salutem vestram operamini with feare and trembling worke your saluation All feare whether it be filiall feare or seruile feare inculdeth doubt the one of sinne the other of punishment Answere AS it is false that wee neither know what wee beleeue nor why wee beleeue as hath beene before sufficientlie shewed so is it no lesse false which is here boldlie affirmed but faintly prooued That wee haue no meanes in our Church to settle vs in vnitie of beleefe to determine controuersies and to abolish Heresies Wee haue the word of GOD which we acknowledge to be the onely touchstone of truth concerning religion and saluation We haue learned and Godly Bishops and Pastors to teach the truth of Gods word to confute both by preaching and writing errors and heresies And we haue Synodes although not generall yet prouinciall wherein controuersies may be decided and Heresies condemned as heretofore the truth hath beene maintained and Heresies confuted and confounded in some prouinciall Councels as that called Gangrense and some other Africane Councels as wel as they haue beene in some generall I would faine know of you what other and better meanes the Church of God had for the space of three hundred yeeres after Christs incarnation then these to determine controuersies and abolish Heresies Generall Councels they had not before Constantines time which Pigh 6. de eccle Hierarch cap. â— Bellarm. tom 1 contro 4. lib. 2 cap. 13. Aeâ—cas Siluius epist 28. pag. 802. therefore your fellow Papist Pighius counteth to haue beene an inuention of his but your great Rabbin Rob. Bellarmine therein controlleth him and saith it is false So well these men bee setled in vnitie of beleefe And to your great Maister of Rome whom you now would make the Oracle of the world there was before that time but small respect and regard had as your own Pope Pius 2. in these words confesseth Ante Concilium Nicenum sibi quisque viuebat ad Romanam Ecclesiam paruus habebatur respectus i. Before the Councel of Nice euery one liued to himselfe and there was small regard had to the Church of Rome Shew vs therefore what meanes the Churches of God then had for maintenance of vnity of faith which we want You say that Christ willed vs to heare his Church if we Matth. 18. 17. Bellar. contro 1. lib. 3. cap. 5 would not be accounted for Ethnicks and Publicanes The which place your said Rob. Bellarmine Reader full wisely alleageth to proue the Pope and his Councel to be the supreme Iudge of controuersies As though our Sauiour Christ there spake of deciding of controuersies in doctrine or of expounding the Scriptures or by the Church meant the Pope and his councell and that euery man against whom his brother trespasseth must goe to the Pope and his councell to make his complaint These bee vanities and follies which nullo impellente ruunt and neede no confutation You further alleage out of Ioh. 14. 17. that Christ promised vnto the church the assistance of the holy Ghost where by the church you meane the Pope and his councell as your Maister Bellarmine hath taught you who writeth thus Sed hic in genere dicimus iudiceÌ„ veri sensus Idem ibid. ca. â— Scripturae omnium controuersiarum esse ecclesiam id est Pontificem cum concilio in quo omnes Catholici conueniunt Wee generally say that the church is the iudge of the true sense of the Scripture and of all controuersies that is to say The Pope with the councell wherein all Catholikes doe assemble or rather dissemble together But our Sauiour Christ made this promise to his disciples saying I will pray the Father and hee shall giue you another Ioh 14 16 17 comforter that hee may abide with you for euer euen the spirit of truth whome the world cannot receiue because it seeth him not neither knoweth him but ye know him for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you This promise pertaineth not to all the successors of the Apostles but to all them that truly feare God and beleeue and obey the holy doctrine which Christ deliuered to his Disciples and which they preached the which when you shall soundly proue that your Popes councels do then we will grant that this promise of Christ belongeth to them In the meane time wee will follow Chrysostomes good counsell Si videris aliquem Euangelica Chrysost Hom. dâ— Sâ—ncâ—o adorando spiritu repetentem profecto spiritum sanctum habet Veniet enim spiritus sanctus vt recordari vos faciat eorum quae docui Si quis igitur eorum qui dicuntur habere spiritum sanctum dicat aliquid à seipso non ex Euangelijs non credité meam doctrinam sequimini If thou see any man speaking out of the Gospell surely he hath the holy Ghost For the holy Ghost shal come to put you in remembrance of those things which I haue taught you If therefore any of them which are said to haue the holy Ghost doe speake any thing of himselfe not out of the Gospell beleeue him not but follow my doctrine Whereas you say that you beleeue certainely that the church cannot erre that the generall councels cannot deliuer false doctrine c. I answere that you foolishly begge that which is in question For as wee acknowledge councels assembled of Godlie learned and modest men which simply seeke the glorie of God and the profit of his Church are good meanes to suppresse errors and heresies and to abolish abuses and enormities so to affirme that generall Councells cannot erre or deliuer false doctrine is most false absurd as by many both reasons and examples might bee proued But for shortnes sake I will touch but a few examples The councell of foure hundred Priests of Israel erred and Satan was a false spirit in the â—outh of them all to the 1. King 22. 6. 8 22. Matth 26. 3. 65. 66. Act. 4. 5. 18. destruction of Achab that cursed king of Israel The councell of the Priests of Iuda erred in coÌ„demning Iesus Christ to death The councell of the high Priest and other Priests Rulers Elders and Scribes erred in forbidding Christs disciples to speake or teach in the name of Iesus The councel of Neocaesarea erred in iudging hardly falsly of second marriages which Gods word alloweth Rom Concil Neoca sar Can. 7. 7. 3. 1. Cor. 7. 39. the words of the councell be these
Presbyterum conuiuio secundarum nuptiarum interesse non debere maxime cum paecipiatur secundis nuptiis poenitentiam tribuere A priest ought not to be present at the feast of second marriages specially because he is commanded to appoint Distiâ—st cap. 20 de libellis penance to second mariages This councell although it were prouinciall was confirmed by Pope Leo the fourth as appeareth by Gratian and the Papists hold that prouinciall Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 17. councels confirmed by the Pope cannot erre The councel of Ariminum wherin were assembled aboue foure hundred Bishoppes horribly erred in maintaining the blasphemous doctrine of Arius The like did the Councels of Millaine Seleucia and of Tyrus The second Councell of Ephesus erred and maintained the false doctrine of Eutycheâ— These councels the Papists confesse to haue erred and why because they were not allowed and confirmed by the Bishoppe of Rome A simple and shamelesse shift as though the Bishop of Rome had in those daies power either to call or confirme Councels any more then the other Patriarks had In that second Councell of Nice most vnlike vnto the first not onely the wicked worshipping of Images was allowed and the Scriptures for the confirmation therof most shamefully abused and detorted as appeareth by the said corrupt councell and Caluin and Caluin Instit lib. 1. cap. 11. Sec. 14. Mart. Ciâ—mni exam Concil Tridet part 4. de imagine Action 5. Mart. Chemnicius haue largely shewed but also in the same was decreed that the Angels haue bodies and that the soule of man is corporall and therefore they may bee painted the which be soule errors If you will not allow the worshipping of Images to be an errour then you cannot say but that the Councell of Constantinople vnder Leo the Emperour where were present 338. Bishops and another of Frankford vnder Charles the Great in which the worshipping of Images was condemned did erre Some of these Councels erred To omit for breuitie sake Platiâ—a in Stepha 6. many other Councells a Councell at Rome vnder Stephanus the sixth or as some reckon seuenth condemned Pope Formosus and his doings Another Councell at Rauenna vnder Pope Iohn the tenth restored Formosus and Platina in â—oan 10. condemned Stephen and the actes of his Councell I hope you will not or cannot say but that one of these Councels erred Another Councell at Rome vnder Pope Nicholas the second caused that excellent learned and godly De coÌ„se Inst 2. Ego Bereng Sâ—ss 13 man Berengarius to recant and to confesse that the very true body of Christ is indeed handled and broken by the Priests hands and torne wtth the teeth of faithfull people The which is a grosse false and blasphemous doctrine The Councell of Constance erred most wickedly in taking away the cuppe of the Lord from the lay people contrary to the word of God and the testimonie of all antiquitie And that their last Councell of Trident hath fouly erred and confirmed false doctrine repugnant to the truth of Gods word and the Canons of ancient Councells both these excellent learned men Martinus Chennicius Innocentius Gentilletus haue shee l and wee doe and will proue to the consciences of all those whom the God of this world hath not blinded I am not ignorant what coullors the Iesuite Bellarmine seeketh to cast vppon the foresaid errours of these Councels and such others and what simple shifts he seeketh to elude auoid them the which I wil not stand here to answer but I will referre the reader to the answers of Lamb. Danaeus and to that excellent man of blessed memory D. Wbitakers where hee may find the weakenesse and nakednesse of Bellarmines said shifts plainly discouered and the same fully confuted the which I thnke will stand as other of his workes haue done long vndefended Whereas you note in your margent the ancient Councels of Nice Constantinople Ephesus and Chalcedon wherin old heretikes were confuted and condemned and thereby claime them to appertaine to your Church I answer that as it is most certaine that those Councels were not called nor gouerned and directed by the Bishops of Rome as now by vsurpation they are so you shall neuer proue that those Godly and learned fathers agreed with you in many great and principall points of Christian doctrine It were easie to shew that sundry things were condemned by them which be receiued and vsed by you And therefore you vainly brag of their names whose doctrine and proceedings you haue forsaken neither haue you so much by disputation in Councels as by cruel persecution through fire and fagot suppressed such as in all ages haue complained of your idolatry and abominations as plainely appeareth by histories As it is true that we admit the holy Scripture or rather the holy Ghost speaking in the scripture to bee the supreme vmpier and Iudge in matters of controuersies and acknowledge him to be the onely infallible interpreter of his own words so is it false that we admit no other iudge but remit all to euery mans priuate spirit and singular exposition We say that as the holy Ghost in the Scriptures is the high infallible iudge and interpreter of the Scriptures so we acknowledge inferiour Iudges and interpreters both priuate and publike Euery man is a priuate iudge to discerne and iudge of the doctrine which he heareth or readeth in the Scriptures So Saint Paul saith I 1. Cor 10. 15. 1. Ioâ— 4. 1. Ibid. 14. 29. 1. Thess 5. 20. speake as vnto wise men iudge ye what I say Let the Prophets speake two or three and let the other Iudge Despise not prophecying Try al things keep that which is good Abstain froÌ„ al apperance of euill Beloued beleeu not euery spirit but try the spirits whether they are of God The spirituall man iudgeth all 1. Cor. 2. 15. Heb. 5. 14 Iohn 10. 5. things Good Christians ought to haue their wits excersised to discerne both good and euill The true sheepe of Christ heare and know his voycâ— and they will not follow a stranger but they flye from him for they know not the voyce of strangers whereby our Sauiour christ sheweth that those which bee his sheepe and bee truly gathered into his fold can iudge and discerne betweene his voye sounding in the Scriptures and the voyce of strangers deliuering a strange doctrine differing and dissenting from the same such is the false doctrine of the Church of Rome Wee also admit publike iudges of controuersies both seuerally as learned Bishops Pastors and Doctors who may giue their sentences and iudgements in matters in question and coniunctly when they bee assembled in Synodes and Councels to examine questions of greater difficultie and to decide the same Howbeit their iudgements be not infallible Psal 11 6. for all men be lyars and subiect to ignorance and errour neither haue they any absolute power and authoritie to iudge after their owne spirit or mind but according to
the canonicall Scriptures from the which if they bee found to decline and swarue their iudgements are not to be followed But your meaning is that the Pope with his Councell is the supreme vmpire and iudge in matters of controuersie and the infallible interpreter thereof How they haue most falsly interpreted the Scriptures I haue in some part shewed before and that hee who is a partie and whom a great part of Christendome doth accuse to bee Antichrist and guilty of most grieuous crimes as of impietie idolatrie tyrannie ouer the Church sacriledge treason c. should bee iudge in this his owne cause is against all law and reason It is written in your owne Canon lawe Si Vide Brutum Fulmen 16. quâ—st consuctudo in glossa Distinct 40. Si Papa in gloss Papa cum aliquo causam hâ—bet non debit ipse esse iudex i. If the Pope haue matter with any other he ought not himselfe to be iudge And againe Quando Papa est in statu qui plerisque est offendiculo scandalizat EcclesiaÌ„ nec est corrigibilis tunc non potest esse iudex quia videtur malè sentire de fide i. When the Pope is in that state that he is an offence to many and scandalizeth the Church and is incorrigible then he cannot bee iudge because he seemeth to be of an euill faith And euen so not onely we do but also many of his owne fauourers haue iustly accused the Pope to be You vainly and falsly exaggerate controuersies and irreconciliable iarres as you terme them among vs in essentiall points of faith But why doe you not particularly expresse some of those essentiall points of faith Surely because you cannot I confesse there hath bin in our Church some controuersie concerning externall ceremonies and forme of gouernment as there hath beene heretofore betweene good men as betweene Peter and Paul betweene Paul and Barnabas betweene Anicetus Bishop of Rome Galat. 2. and Polycarpus betweene Chrysostome and Epiphanius and many others who all were godly men agreeing in vnity of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God But you that are so eager in traducing our iarres cannot see your owne manifold and vnreconciliable iarres and controuersies among your selues As betweene your Schoolemen namely your Thomists and Scotists differing in sundrie matters of moment as not onely Erasmus hath declared but also Iohn Bishop of Rochester hath affirmed Also betweene Assert Luth. art 36. pag. 339. your Dominican and Franciscan Friers about the conception of the virgin Mary debated not onely by words but also by blowes which controuersie was neuer yet decided but in the Councell of Basil which the Papists count a schismaticall Councell and in the same was the false doctrine approoued to wit that the Virgin Mary was conceiued without sinne You cannot see your iarres betweene your great Maister of Sentences Peter Lumbard who iustled Saint Paul out of the schooles and your Sorbonist Doctors of Paris which found and condemned 26. errors in him nor the iarres betweene Ambrosius Catharinus Archbishop of Minorien and Dominicus de Soto confessor to Charles the fift concerning assurance of Gods grace predestination originall sinne freewill and induration of a sinner as in their bitter bookes one against another about these matters appeareth nor the iarres betweene the said Catharinus and Cardinall Caietane whome Catharinus chargeth with 200. errors of which he writeth thus Quae vt non solum euidenter falsa meritò culpari possent veruÌ„ etiam vâ— Christianâ— religioni perniciosa c. Which may be worthily reproued not onely as euidently false but also as pernicious to Christian religion I might mention many mo iarres among the Papists and namely betweene the secular Priests and Iesuits as appeareth by their bitter bookes one against another and particularly that of Willam Watson a secular Priest lately published in print against the Iesuits which this cauilling exclamor cannot espy who can see a moate in our eyes but cannot behold great beames in their owne but for shortnes sake I omit them at this present onely the learned may see how that great Rabbi Rob. Bellarmine iarreth with all other his pewfellowes and in very many essentiall points of doctrine dissenteth from them and controuleth them Whereof also Iohannes Pappus hath made a large collection Here in your later edition and addition you make a particular declaration of our iarres in matters of religion but all grounded vpon your owne baâ—e words without any allegation of places and testimonies whereby they should be confirmed and the reader perswaded and satisfied But you thinke your bare assertion will be sufficient for that your fauourers whome you haue with a strong delusion bewitched will take your naked asseuerations for sound probations You say that wee goe about to bleare the peoples braines with I know not what vnity and conformity in matters of faith c. But who haue not onely bleared but also starke blinded the braynes of the people heauen and earth can witnes euen they that haue taken away the key of knowledge haue kept the light of Gods word vnder the busshell of a strange tongue and haue taught ignorance to be the mother of deuotion as before is declared But let vs come to the particular iars which you say are amongst vs. The 1. is the kings supremacy the which you say all sound Puritans in the world deny and defie The which is a most false slander for there is neither Protestant nor such as it pleaseth you to call Puritans so farre-forth as I know and beleeue but as they deny and defie the Popes wicked supremacy which he hath vsurped and wherby he hath tyranized ouer the Church of God and Soueraigne Princes so they doe vnfeynedly confesse and acknowledge the kings Supreme power and authority in his kingdomes and dominions in all causes and ouer al persons both ecclesiasticall and temporall or politicall They all say with Saint Paule that euery soule ought to bee subiect to the higher powers whether they be as Saint Chrisostome saith Apostle or Euangelist or Prophet or whatsoeuer he be for this subiection doth not ouer-throwe God-linesse They all confesse that it belongeth to his royall dignity to see and procure not onely iustice to bee executed and peace mayntained but also that God bee truely and sincerly serued according to his will reuealed in his word And that he ought to suppresse and punish the transgressions not only of the first table of Gods commandements but also of the second in abolishing all Idolatrie superstition and wicked worshippinges and in remouing and punishing those that doe commit them They all confesse that he is next and immediatly vnder God subiect to the censure of none vpon earth If you know any Protestant or Puritaine that teacheth or writeth otherwaies alleage their wordes and produce the places But you say that Caluine whome it pleaseth you to call the Puritanicall Patriarke thought not well of King Henry the eights supremacy I answere
you prooue little The GOD of patience and consolation giue vnto Rom. 15 5. vs and you that wee may bee like minded one towards an other according to Christ Iesus that we may all with one minde and one mouth praise God euen the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ Amen Whereas you say that we haue no argument to prooue that we haue the true Church true religion and true faith but such as al heretikes haue euer vsed I answere that wee haue that argument and proofe for these things which although Heretikes haue falsely pretended as popish heretikes now do yet the Godly learned Fathers haue sincerely vsed And that is the holy word of God the only touchstone of truth and piller of the Church for as the Church 1. Tim. 3. 15 in one respect is the piller of truth as Saint Paul saith so in another the truth is the piller and prop of the Church as Chrysost in illum locum ho mil. 11. Math. 4. 4 7 10. Math. 19. 4. ibid. 22 29. Luk. 24. 27. 32 44 46 Rom. 1 2. 3 21. 4 3. Chrysostom saith For by what meanes els haue the Godly and learned Fathers in all ages confuted heresies and proued the Church but by the scriptures by them our Sauiour Christ foyled the diuell and put him to flight By them he answered the Pharisies By them he confuted the Sadduces By them he proued himselfe to be the promised Messias and Sauiour of the world By them Saint Paul confirmed the Gospel which he preached By them hee perswaded the Iewes those things which concerned Christ Iesus both out of the Law of Moses and out of the Act. 21. 23. ibid. 18 2 8 Prophets By them Apollos confuted the Iewes with great vehemencie shewing by the Scriptures that Iesus was the Christ By them the Godly and learned Fathers confuted and confounded the Arians and other Heretikes whom you here name as by their bookes and particular sayings it euidently appeareth Athanasius speaking of the Godly Athanas de de cretis Nicen. Synod pag. 528 decrees of the councell of Nice against the Arians writeth thus Atque harum rerum non aliunde nos quà m ex scripturis persuasionem habemus that is We be perswaded of these things by no other meanes but by the Scriptures Epiphanius saith In Scripturis sanctis Trinttas nobit Epipâ— contra pâ—â—umaiomachos haeres 7â— annuÌ„tiatur ac creditur citra curiositatem c. The Trinity is in the holy Scriptures preached vnto vs without curiositie beleued And that by theÌ„ al doctrines are to be confirmed al errors and heresies to be confuted they plainely and plentifully shew Tertullian saith that if Heretikes Tertul. lib de resurrec carnes Eâ—iph contra pâ—ulum Samosa haeres 66 Basii epist 80. bee brought to examine and try their questions onely by the Scriptures they cannot stand Epiphanius saith that wee are not to discusse questions by our owne wittes and reasons Sedex Scripturarum consequentia By the consequeÌ„ce of the Scriptures Saint Basil saith Let vs stand to the arbitrement of the Scripture inspired of God and with whome bee found doctrines agreeable to those diuine words let the truth be iudged to be with them Constantine sayd vnto the Bishoppes in the Nicene Councell The Euangelicall and Apostolicall bookes and the Oracles of the Theod. lib. 8. cap. 7 sol 284. Prophets doe plainely instruct vs of GOD wherefore laying away all enimitie and discord let vs take the explication or resolution of the questions in controuersie out of those saying inspired of GOD. So saith Saint Augustine Verum nos sacris literis accommodemus auditum c. August in Euang Ioan. tract 60. August de cura pro mortuis cap. 2. Let vs hearken vnto the holy Scriptures and according to them let vs helpe by the grace of God to dissolue this question And againe Non secunduÌ„ opinionem c. We must consider of this matter not according to yâ— commoÌ„ opinion but according to the holy Scriptures of our religion And of yâ— Church he saith thus Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam De vnitate ecclesiae cap. 16. teneant non nisi diuinarum ScripturaruÌ„ canonicis libris ostendant but whether they haue yâ— church let them shew by no other meanes but by the Canonical books of the diuine Scriptures Chrysostom saith yâ— we cannot know Chrisostom in Math. Homil. 44. which is the true Church of Christ Nisi tantummodo per Scripturas but onely by the Scriptures Therefore by the Scriptures proue your doctrine and shew your Church Math 4. But you say the Arians others Heretikes alleadged the Scriptures whereunto I adde that so did the Diuel also but in such sort as you and your fellowes doe in mangling them falsly expounding and applying them as I haue in some part before shewed I am conteÌ„t to ioyne this issue with you that they with be proued to depraue detort mangle and falsly expound and apply the scriptures be heretikes and to bee condemned with these old heretikes whome you here name To whome whether you or we bee more like let the vpright Reader indifferently iudge The Arians seeing that they could haue nothing out of the Scriptures fled as Athanasius saith vnto the Fathers and euen so do you The Arians vsed subtill distinctions Athanas tomâ— 2. to elude and shift of the truth and so do you They denied the person of Christ and you deny the office of Christ in not acknowledging him to be our onely Prophet and teacher whose onely voyce wee must heare and obey nor the only King and head of his Church nor our onely high Priest with the sweet smelling sacrifice of himselfe once for euer offered to redeeme and reconcile vs vnto God nor our only mediator to make intercession for vs. The Arians did cruelly persecute the true Christians Ruffin lib. 1. cap. 17. Socrates lib. 1. cap. 17. zozo in lib. 4. cap. 27. Gregor Nazi anz artic ad Arianos and so do Papists when power is in their hand to doe it The Arians when they could not preuaile against that excellent man Athanasius fell to raile vpon him and to slaunder him accusing him of adulterie murther and sorcerie and euen so do you now deale with such as for their godlinesse and learning may well bee compared with Athanaesiuâ— I meane especially Caeluin whome the Author of that vnlearned libell and beastly booke intituled A quartron of reasons of Catholike religion c. is not ashmed 5. reasoÌ„ pa. 30. to call a seare backt Priest for Sodomie O thou shamelesse man or rather monsterlart thou not ashamed to slaunder and belie such a man of whome they that knew him did truly write of him ipsâ— Ã quo potuit virtutem discere virtus Theo Beza that euen virtue it selfe might as it were haue learned vertue of him How doest thou know that Caluin was such a man I assure my selfe
c. The inuenting of Idols and Images was the beginning of VVis 14. 2 Cor. 6. 16. 1 Ioh. 5. 21. Apoca. 9. 20. whoredome and the finding of them is the corruption of life What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols or Images Babes keepe your selues from Images The remnant of the men which were not killed by these plagues repented not of the workes of their handes that they should not worship deuills and Idols of gold and of siluer of brasse and of stone and of wood which neither can see neither heare nor goe Also they repented not of their murther and of their sorcerie neither of their fornication nor of their theft I wil for shortnes sake omit many other places of Scripture wherein Images in the worship of God are condemned and the vanitie of them liuely painted forth Now as touching the state of the Church after Christ and his Apostles it is most certaine that the Christians in Lib. 3. cap. 23. the primitiue Church neither had nor worshipped Images Eusebius writeth that Plinius secundus a Pagane writing to Traiane the Emperour a persecutor of Christians did certifie him that hee found no wickednes in the Christians but that they would not worshippe Images Origne writeth that Celsus that railer and Blasphemour of Christianity did obiect this as a fault against the Con. Celse lib. 4. Apolog. cap. 12. Christians that they had no Images Tertullian writeth thus If we worship not vaine pictures and Images that are like dead men which Kites Mise and Spiders know what they be doth not the forsaking of this knowne errour deserue rather praise then punishment Lactantius saith that God is greater then man therefore he is aboue and not below neither Lib 2. de Orig. 9. error cap 19. is he to be sought below vpon the earth but in the highestrehioÌ„ of heauen wherefore ther is no doubt but that there is no religion wheresoeuer there is an Image Clemens writeth Lib. 5. recog cap 6. thus That Serpent the Deuill vseth by others to vtter such words we to the honor of God do worship visible Images the which is most certainely false for if you would truly worship the Image of God by doing well vnto man you should in him worship the true Image of God for in euery man is the true Image of God But yet not in all the true similitude but where there is a good soule and a pure minde If therefore you would honor the Image of God wee doe shew you what is good that you do good and giue honor and reuerence vnto man who is made after the Image of God giuing meate vnto the hungry and drinke vnto the thirsty apparell vnto the naked seruice vnto the sicke hospitality vnto strangers and things necessarie vnto him that is in prison And this is that which shal be accepted as truely done vnto God And these things doe so farre forth tende vnto Gods Image and the honor thereof that he that doth them not is thought to offer iniury vnto the Image of God Therefore what honour of God is this to gâ—d after Images of stone and of woode and to worshippe as God vaine and liuelesse Images and to despise man in whom is truly the Image of God Hitherto Clement Epiphanius comming into a church and there finding a Com. 3. opem Hicronimi vaile hanging and hauing on it an Image as it were of Christ or some Saint did teare it in peeces willed them to wrap some dead body in it and not to hange such in the churches contrary to the authority of the scriptures This Epistle wherein this is contained hath the authority not onely of Epiphanius which did write it but also of Saint Hierome who did translate and alledge it against Iohn the Bishop of Ierusalem Saint Augustine commendeth that Lib. â— de ciuit dei cap. 9 learned Romaine Varro for that hee affirmed that they which ordained Images for the people both tooke away feare and brought in error And againe hee writeth of the Ibim cap. 31 same Varro in this sort Wherefore seeing that Varro did say that they did know what was God who did beleeue that hee is a soule or spirit gouerning the world and did thinke that religion might more chastly bee obserued without Images who did not see how neare hee came to truth Heare Saint Augustine affirmeth that Varro came neare vnto the truth in thinking that religion might more chastly and purely be obserued without Images then with them The same Saint Augustine writeth thus Vere mendatia c. Our fathers haue indeed worshipped lies euen Images in which is no profit Saint Ambrose sayth The De fug â—culi cap. 5. cap. 36. Church knoweth not idle formes and vaine figures Images The counsel Elibertimum decreed that Images ought not to be in the Church and that which is worshipped or adored 〈◊〉 lib. 1. a coas a. Euangel cap. 10. should not be painted â—poâ— walls I will conclude this matter o Images with an other saying of S. Augustine Sic omnine errare meruerunt quia ChristuÌ„ et Apostolos eius non in sanctis condicibus sed in pictis parietibus quaesiueruÌ„t i. They haue altogither deserued to bee deceiued because they haue sought Christ and his Apostles not in the holy bookes of the scriptures but in painted walls And thus much at this time for Images expecting that this Catholike gentlewoman or some of her friends will proue by the testimony of the holy scriptures and the testimony of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles not onely the vse of them as here they say but also the horrible abuse of them such as was in Popery in running a pilgrimage to them in kneeling creeping to them in burning candles and tapers before them in offering incense and all kinde of other oblations vnto them in making them to nodde with their heads and their eyes to gogle to deceiue the simple c. This shal be as easie for them to doe as to moue mountaines As touching the crosse and pilgrimage I will for shortnesse sake write nothing requiring them by the foresayd testimonies for to proue them Now it followeth in the sayd scroole or paper I Would know whether it bee not true that Aerius was condemned an Heretike aboue these thousand yeares for denying praier for the dead and Vigilantius for denying the praiers to Saints and the Nouatianes for denying the power of the Church to forgiue sinnes and Eustathius for denying Pilgrimage to holie places and Simon Magus for denying free will and Iouiniane for affirming the marriage of Priestes all the which opinions and many moe that are now preached for Gods word haue beene these thousand yeares condemned for heresies as I am told out of bookes of Saint Ireneus Saint Ambrose Saint Augustine Saint Epiphanius Saint Hierome and other holy fathers of the primitiue Church Answere AS touching these here charged with