tempore Tiberii Caesaris that is extremo about the end of the raigh of Tiberius Caesar who died in the thirty ninth year of Christ five or six years at least before the foundations of the Roman-Church were layed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These things we must speak unto because you suppose them of importance unto your Cause The second Assertion ascribed unto your Fiat in the Animadversions is That whence and from whom we first received our Religion there and with them we must abide therein to them we must repair for guidance and return to their rule and conduct if we have departed from them To which you now say This Principle as it is never delivered by Fiat Lux though you put it upon me so is it in the latitude it carries and wherein you understand it absolutely false never thought of by me and indeed impossible For how can we abide with them in any truth who may not perhaps abide in it themselves Great part of Flanders was first converted by English men and yet are they not obliged to accompany the English in our now present wayes I am glad you confess this Principle now to be false it was sufficiently proved so to be in the Animadversions and your whole Discourse rendred thereby useless For to what purpose will the preceding Assertion so often incuicated by you serve if this be false For what matter is it from whence or whom wereceive the profession of Religion if there be no obligation upon us to continue in their communion any further than as we judge them to continue in the truth And to what purpose do you avoid the consideration of the Reasons and Causes of our not abiding with you and manage all your Charge upon the generall head of our departure if we may have just cause by your own concession so to do It is false then by your own acknowledgement and I am as sure in the sense which I understand it in that it is yours And you labour with all your art to prove and confirm it both in your Fiat pag. 44 45 46 47. and in this very Epistle pag. 38 39 40 41 c. On the account that the Gospel came unto us from Rome you expresly adjudge the preheminence over us unto Rome and determine that her we must all hear and obey and abide with But if you may say and unsay assert and deny avow and disclaim at your pleasure as things make for your advantage and think to evade the owning of the whole drift and scope of your Discourse by having expressed your self in a loose flourish of words it will be to no great purpose further to talk with you Quo teâ—eam vultus mutantem Protea nodo To lay fast hold and not startle at a new shape was the counsell his daughter gave to Menelaus And I must needs urge you to leave off all thoughts of evading by such changes of your hue and to abide by what you say I confess I believe you never intended knowingly to assert this Principle in its whole latitude because you did not as it should seem consider how little it would make for your advantage seeing so many would come in for a share in the priviledge intimated in it with your Roman Church and you do not in any thing love competitors But you would fain have the Conclusion hold as to your Roman Church only those that have received the Gospel from her must alwayes abide in her communion That this Assertion is not built on any generall foundation of Reason or Authority your self now confess And that you have no speciall priviledge to plead in this Cause hath been proved in the Animadversions whereof you are pleased to take no notice CHAP. IV. Further Vindication of the first Chapter of the Animadversions Church of Rome not what she was of old Her Falls and Apostacy Difference between Idolatry Apostacy Heresie and Schism Principles of the Church of Rome condemned by the antient Church Fathers and Councels Imposing Rites unnecessary Persecution for Conscience Papall Supremacy The Branches of it Papall Personall Infallibility Religious veneration of Images THe third Assertion which you review is That the Roman profession of Religion and practice in the worship of God are every way the same as when first we received the Gospel from Rome nor can they ever otherwise be whereunto you say This indeed though I do no where formally express it yet I suppose it because I know it hath been demonstratively proved a hundred times over You deny it hath been proved why do you not then disprove it because you decline say you all common places All that I affirmed was that you did suppose this Principle and built many of your Inferences on the supposition thereof which you here acknowledge And so you have already owned two of the Principles whereof in the foregoing Page you affirmed that you could hardly own any one and that in the sense wherein by me they are proposed and understood But what do you mean that you no where formally express it If you mean that you have not set it down in those syllables wherein you find it expressed in the Animadversions no man ever said you did you do not use to speak so openly and plainly To do so would bring you out of the corners which somewhat that you pretend unto never lead you into But if you deny that you asserted and laboured to prove the whole and entire matter of it your following Discourse wherein you endeavour a vindication of the Sophisme wherewith you pleaded for it in your Fiat will sufficiently confute you And so you have avowed already two of the hardly any one Principles ascribed unto you And this you say hath been demonstratively proved an hundred times over and ask me why I do not disprove it giving a ridiculous Answer as from me unto your Enquiry But pray S r talk not of Demonstrations in this matter palpable Sophismes such as your Masters use in this Cause are far enough from Demonstrations And if you think it enough for you to say that it hath been proved why is it not a sufficient Answer in me to remind you that it hath been disproved and your pretended proofs all refuted And according to what Rules of Logick do you expect Arguments from me to disprove your Assertion whilest I was only answering yours that you produced in its confirmation But that you may not complain any more I shall make some addition of the proofs you require by way of supererrogation when we have considered your vindication of your former Arguments for the confirmation of this Assertion wherewith you closed your Discourse in your Fiat Lux. This you thus propose again The Roman was once a true flourishing Church and if she ever fell she must fall either by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme So you now mince the matter in your Fiat it was a most pure flourishing and Mother Church and you know there are many that yet
secondly he actually did so Neither of these can you prove or produce any Testimony worth crediting in confirmation of it Did it necessarily follow from hence because that was the place where Peter died But this was accidentall a thing that Peter thought not of for you say that a few dayes before his death he was leaving that place Besides according to this insinuation why did not every Apostle leave a Successour behind him in the place where he dyed and that by vertue of his dying in that place or produce you any Patent granted to Peter in especiall that where he dyed there he should leave a Successour behind him But it seems the whole weight of your faith is layed upon a matter of fact accidentally falling out yea and that very incertain whether ever it fell out or no. Shew us any thing of the will and institution of Christ in this matter As that Peter should go to Rome that he should fix his seat there that he should dye there that he should have a Successour that the Bishop of Rome should be his Successour that unto this Successour I know not what nor how many Priviledges should be conveyed All these are arbitrary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Inventions that men may multiply in infinitum at their pleasure For what should set bounds to the imaginations of men when once they cast off all Reverence of Christ and his Truth Once more Why did not Peter fix a Seat and leave a Successor at Antioâ—h and in other places where he abode and preached and exetcised Episcopal Power without all question Was it because he dyed at Rome This is to acknowledg that the whole Papacy is built as was said upon an accidentall matter of fact and that supposed not proved Further if he must be supposed to succeed Peter I desire to know what that succession is and wherein he doth succeed him Doth he succeed him in all that hee had and was in reference unto the Church of God Doth he succeed him in the manner of his Call to his Office Peter was called immediately by Christ in his own Person the Pope is chosen by the Conclave of Cardinals concerning whom their Office Priviledges Power Right to choose the Successour of Peter there is not one iota in the Scripture or any Monuments of the best Antiquity and how in their Election of Popes they have been influenced by the interest of powerfull Strumpets your own Baronius will inform you Doth he succeed him in the way and manner of his Personal Discharge of his Office and imployment Not in the least Peter in the pursuit of his Commission and in obedience unto the command of his Lord and Master travailed up and down the world preaching the Gospel planting and watering the Churches of Christ in patience self-deniall humility zeal temperance meekness The Pope raigns at Rome in case exalting himself above the Kings of the earth without taking the least pains in his own Person for the conversion of Sinners or edification of the Disciples of Christ Doth he succeed him in his Personal Qualifications which were of such extraordinary advantage unto the Church of God in his dayes his Faith Love Holiness Light and Knowledg you will not say so Many of your Popes by your own confession have been ignorant and stupid many of them flagitiously wicked to say no more Doth he succeed him in the way and manner of his exercising his Care and Authority towards the Churches of Christ as little as the rest Peter did it by his prayers for the Churches personal visitation and instruction of them writing by inspiration for their direction and guidance according to the will of God The Pope by Bulls and Consistorial Determinations executed by intricate Legal Processes and Officers unknown not only to Peter but all Antiquity whose ways practices orders terms S t Peter himself were he upon the earth again would very little understand Doth he succeed him in his Personal Infallibility agree among your selves if you can and give an answer unto this inquiry Doth he succeed him in his power of working Miracles you do not so much as pretend thereunto Doth he succeed him in the Doctrine that he taught it hath been proved unto you a thousand times that he doth not and wee are still ready to prove it again if you call us thereunto Wherein then doth this Succession consist that you talk of In his Power Authority Jurisdiction Supremacy Monarchy with the Secular Advantages of Riches Honour and pomp that attend them things sweet and desireable unto carnall mindes This is the Succession you pretend to plead for And are you not therein to be commended for your wisdome In the things that Peter really enjoyed and which were of singular Spiritual advantage unto the Church of God you disclaim any Succession unto him and fix it on things wherein he was no way concerned that make for your own Secular advantage and interest You have certainly layed your design very well if these things would hold good to Eternity For hence it is that you draw out the Monarchy of your Pope direct and absolute in Ecclesiasticall things over the whole Church indirect at least and in ordine ad Spiritualia over the whole world This the Diana in making of Shrines for whom your occupation consists and it brings no small gains unto you Hence you wire-draw his Cathedrall Infallibility Legislative Authority Freedom from the Judgment of any whereby you hope to secure him and your selves from all opposition endeavouring to terrifie them with this Medusa's head that approach unto you Hence are his Titles The Vicar of Christ Head and Spouse of his Church Vice-Deus Dius alter in Terris and the like where by you keep up popular venexation and preserve his Majestick distance from the poor Disciples of Christ. Hence you warrant his practices suited unto these pretensions and Titles in the deposing of Kings transposing of Titles unto Dominion and Rule giving away of Kingdoms stirring up and waging mighty warres causing and commanding them that dissent from him or refuse to yield obedience unto him to be destroyed with fire and sword And who can now question but that you have very wisely stated your Succession This is the way this the progress whereby you pretend to bring us unto the Vnity of faith If we will submit unto the Pope and acquiesce in his Determinations whereunto to induce us we have the Cogent Reasons now considered the work will be effected This is the way that God hath as you pretend appointed to bring us unto Settlement in Religion These things you have told us so often and with so much Confidence that you take it ill we should question the truth of any thing you averr in the whoe matter and look upon us as very ignorant or unreasonable for our so doing Yea he that believes it safer for him to trust the everlasting concernments of his soul unto the Goodness Grace and Faithfulness of
the Church then the present Church is made up of the same numerical members that it was constituted of in the days of his flesh What change you suppose in the Church the body the same you suppose and assert in the head thereof And as that change excludes those former members from being present members so this excludes the former Head from being the present Head Of old the Head of the Church was the humane nature of Christ delegate under God now that is removed and another person in the same nature is so delegated unto the same office Now this is not an Head under Christ but in distinction from him in the same place wherein he was and so exclusive of him which must needs be Antichrist one pretending to be in his room and place to his exclusion that is one set up against him And thus also what you seek to avoid doth inevitably follow upon your discourse namely that you would have the Church for the preservation of its oneness and sameness to have the same head she had which is not the same unless you will say that the Pope is Christ these are the Principles that you proceed upon First you tell us that the humane nature of Christ delegate under God was the visible Head of the Church Secondly That this nature is now removed from us and ceaseth so to be that is not only to be visible but the visible Head of the Church and is no more so then the present Church is made up of the same individual members as it was in the dayes of his flesh which as you well observe it is not Thirdly That a nature of the same kind in another Person is now delegate under God to the same office of a Visible Head with that power of external Government which Christ had whilest he was that head And is it not plain from hence that you exclude the Lord Christ from being that head of his Church which he was in former dayes and substituting another in his room and place you at once depose him and assign another head unto the Church and that in your attempt to prove that her head must still be the same or she cannot be so Farther the humane nature of Christ was personally united unto the Son of God and if that Head which you now fancy the Church to have be not so united it is not the same Head that that was and so whilest you seek to establish not indeed a sameness in the Head of the Church but a likeness in several Heads of it as to visibility you evidently assert a change in the nature of that Head of the Church which we enquire after In a word Christ and the Pope are not the same and therefore if it be necessary to maintain that the Church hath the same Head that she had to assert that in the room of Christ she hath the Pope you prove that she hath the same head that she had because she hath one that is not the same she had and so qui habet aures audiat 4. You vainly imagine the whole Catholick Church any otherwise visible then with the eyes of faith and understanding It was never so no not when Christ conversed with it in the earth no not if you should suppose only his blessed Mother his twelve Apostles and some few more only to belong unto it For though all the members of it might be seen and that at once by the bodily eyes of men as might also the humane nature of him who was the head of it yet as he was Head of the Church and in that his whole Person wherein he was so and is so he was never visible unto any for no man hath seen God at any time And therefore you substituting an Head in his room who in his whole person is visible seeing he was not so do change the Head of the Church as to its visibility also for one that is in his whole person visible and another that is not so are not alike visible wherein you would principally place the identity of the Church 5. Let us see whether your Logick be any better then your Divinity The best Argument that can be formed out of your discourse is this If the Church hath not an head visibly present with her as she had when Christ in his humane nature was on the earth she is not the same that she was but according to their Principles she hath not an head now so visibly present with her therefore she is not the same according unto them I desire to know how you prove your inference It is built on this supposition that the sameness of the Church depends upon the visibility of its Head and not on the sameness of the Head its self which is a fond conceit and contrary to express Scripture Ephes. 4. 3 4 5 6 7. and not capable of the least countenance from Reason It may be you will say that though your Argument do not conclude that on our supposition the Church is not the same absolutely as it was yet it doth that it is not the same as to visibility Whereunto I answer 1. That there is no necessity that the Church should be alwayes the same as to visibility or alwayes visible in the same manner or alwayes equally visible as to all concernments of it 2. You mistake the whole nature of the visibility of the Church supposing it to consist in its being seen with the bodily eyes of men whereas it is only an affection of its publick profession of the Truth whereunto it s being seen in part or in whole by the eyes of any or all men doth no way belong 3. That the Church as I said before was indeed never absolutely visible in its Head and members He who was the Head of it being never in his whole person visible unto the the eyes of men and he is yet as he was of old visible to the eyes of faith whereby we see him that is invisible So that to be visible to the bodily eyes of men in its head and members was never a property of the Church much less such an one as that thereon its sameness in all Ages should depend 6. You fail also in supposing that the numerical sameness of the Church as a body depends absolutely on the sameness of its members For whilest in succession it hath all things the same that concur unto its Constitution order and existence it may be still the same body corporate though it consist not of the same individual persons or bodies natural As the Kingdom of England is the same Kingdom that it was two hundred years ago though there be not now one person living that then it was made up of For though the matter be the same only specifically yet the form being the same numerically that denominates the body to be so But that I may the better represent unto you the proper genius and design of your Discourse I shall
particular instances when you have begun some of your Conciliary actions the greatest solemnities of Christianity amongst you with invocation of her for help and assistance So did your Councell of Lateran joyning with Cardinall Cajetan in their opening of the second Session in these words Quoniam nihil est quod homo de semetipso sine auxilio opeque divina possit polliceri ad Gloriosam ipsam Virginem Dei matrem primum convertam orationem meam Seeing there is nothing that a man may promise to himself as of himself without divine help and assistance I will first turn my prayer unto the Glorious Virgin the mother of God This was the Doctrine this the Practice this the Idolatry of your Lateran Councell And again in the 7 th Session Deiparae nostrae presidium imploremus let us pray for the help or protection of our blessed mother of God And in the 10 th Session of the same Councell Stephen Arch◠bishop of Patras prays Vt ipsa beata Virgo Angelorum Domina fons omnium Gratiarum quae omnes Hereses interemit cujus opera magus reformatio Concordia Principum vera contra Infideles expeditio fieri debet opem ferre dignetur That the blessed Virgin the Lady of Angels the fountaion of all Graces who destroyeth all heresies by whose assistance the great Reformation the Agreement of Princes and sincere expedition against the Infidels the business of that Councell ought to be performed would vouchsafe to help him that he might c. And thereupon sings this Hymne unto her recorded in the Acts of the Councell Omnium Splendor decus perenne Virginum Lumen genetrix superni Gloria humani generis Maria unica nostri Sola Tu Virgo dominaris astris Sola Tu Terrae Maris atque Coeli Lumen inceptis saveas rogamus Inclyta nostris Vt queam sacros reserare sensus Qui latent chart is nimium severi Ingredi celsae duce te benigna Maeniaterra O Mary the beauty honour and everlasting light of all Virgins the mother of the Highest the only glory of mankind Thou Virgin alone rulest the Stars Thou alone are the light of Earth Sea and Heaven do thou O glorious Lady wee entreat prosper my endeavours That I may unfold the sacred senses which lye hid in the too severe writings of the Scripture and kindly give me under thy goodness to enter the walls of the heavenly Countreys I suppose it cannot be doubted whence the pattern of this Conciliary Prayer was taken it is but an imitation of Phaebe Sylvarúmque potens Diana Lucidum Coeli decus O colendi Semper culti date quae precamur tempore sacro Alme Sol curru nitido diem qui Promis celas aliusque idem Nasceris possis nihil urbe Roma visere majus Rite maturos aperire partus Lenis Itithia tuere matres Sive tu Lucina probas vocari seu Genitalis Diva And if this be not plainely to place her in the Throne of God I know not what can be imagined so to do Your worship of Angels and of Saints is of the same importance concerning whom you do well to entitle your Paragraph Hero's your Doctrine and Practice concerning them being the very same with those of the antient Heathen in reference unto their Daemons and Hero's So your own Learned Vives confesseth of many of you in August de Civit. Dei lib. 28. cap. ult Multi Christiani saith he Divos Divasque non aliter venerantur quam Deum nes video in multis quod sit discrimen inter eorum opinionem de Sanctis id quod Gentiles putabant de suis Diss. Many Christians worship hee and shee Saints no otherwise than they do God neither do I see in many things what difference there is between their opinion concerning the Saints and that which the Heathen thought of their Gods And it is known what Polidore Virgil before him affirmed to the same purpose Your Idolatry in the worship of Images of all sorts shall be afterwards declared Be then this a single or mixt misdemeanour it matters not a misdemeanour it is whereby we affirm that the Roman Church is fallen from its pristine purity And this we think is a full answer unto your enquiry We need not you cannot compell us to go one step farther But our way is plain and invites us I shall therefore proceed to let you see once again that she is fallen by all the wayes you thought meet to confine your enquiry unto You proceed finding your self puzled in the third place you lay on load she fell say you by Apostasie Idolatry Heresie Schisme Licentiousness and prophaneness of Life And in this you do not much unlike the drunken youth who being bid to hit his Masters finger with his when he perceived he could not do it he ran his whole fist against it Seriously S r you have the worst success in your Attempts for a little wit and merriment that ever I met with If you would take my advice you should not strain your Genius for that which it will not affoard you you forget the old rule Tu nihil invita dies faciesve Minerva Any other diversion were better than this which proves so succesless Yet I must confess you deserve well of pastime seeing to serve its interests you so often make your self ridiculous as you now do in this pittifull story And I cannot tell you whether my Answer have touched your finger or no but I am sure if it be true it strikes your Cause to the heart and I am as sure of the Truth of it as I am that I am alive And you see how I am pusled even as he was who cryed inopem me copia fecit Your Church hath fallen so many wayes all so foully and evidently that it is hard for any man to chuse what instance to insist upon who is called on to charge her as you by your enquiry of them do on your Protestant Readers And for my part I had rather you should take your choyce against which of the things mentioned you think your self best able to defend her And may it please you to chuse your Instance if I prove not your Church to have fallen by it I will promise you to become a Papist You proceed to your own particulars and ask Did shee fall by Apostasie to which you subjoyn my words by a partiall not a totall one with your reply Good S r in this division Apostasie is set to express a totall relapse in opposition to Heresie which is the partiall I see you have as little mind to be drawn to the consideration of your Apostasie as of your Idolatry and would fain post off all to Heresie under a corrupt notion of which terme you hope to find some shelter for your self and your Church although in vain But Verte omnes tete in facies contrahe quicquid Sive animis sive arte vales You must bear the charge of
Apostasie also For why must that needs be the notion of these termes in the division you made that you now express Is it from the strict sense and importance of the words themselves or from the Scripturall or Ecclesiasticall use of them or whence is it that it must be so and that it is so None of these will give you any relief or the least countenance unto your fancie Both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in themselves of an indifferent signification denoting things or acts good or evill according to their accidentall limitations and applications It is said of some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they will depart from the faith 1 Tim. 4. 1. And the same Apostle speaking of them that name the name of Christ sayes let every one of them depart from iniquity 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Tim. 2. 19. so that the word it self signifies no more but a single and bare departure from anything way rule or practice be it good or bad wherein a man hath been ingaged or which he ought to avoid and fly from And this is the use of it in the best Greek Authors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are such in Homer who are farre distant or remote on any account from any thing or place And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Aristotle things very remote To leave any place company thing Society or Rule on any cause is the common use of the word in Thucydides Plutarch Lucian and the rest of their companions in the propriety of that language Apostasia by Ecclesiasticall writers is restrained unto either a back sliding in Faith subjective and manners or a causeless relinquishment of any Truth before professed So the Jews charge Paul Acts 21. 21. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou teachest Apostasie from Moses Law Such also is the nature of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a speciall option choyce or way in profession of any Truth or Error So Paul calls Pharisaisme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 26. 5. the most exact heresie or way of Religion among the Jews And Clemens Alexandrinus Strom lib. 8. calls Christian Religion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the best Heresie And the great Constantine in one of his Edicts calls it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Catholick or generall Heresie and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most holy Heresie The Latines also constantly used that word in a sense indifferent Cato faith Cicero est in ea heresi quae nullum orationis florem sequitur The words therefore themselves you see are of an indifferent signification having this difference between them that the one for the most part is used to signifie the Relinquishment of that which a man had before embraced and the other a choice or embracing of that which a man had not before received or admitted And this difference is constantly observed by all Ecclesiasticall writers who afterwards used these words in the worst or an evill sense so that Apostasie in this appropriation of it denotes the relinquishment of any Important Truth or way in Religion and Heresie the choice or embracement of any new destructive Opinion or Principle or way in the profession thereof A man then may be an Apostate by partiall Apostasie that is depart from the Profession of some Truth he had formerly embraced or the performance of some duty which he was engaged in without being an Heretick or choosing any new opinion which he did not before embrace Thus you signally call a Monke that deserts his Monasticall Profession an Apostate though he embrace no opinion which is condemned by your Church or which you think hereticall And a man may be an Heretick that is choose and embrace some new false opinion which he may coyn out of his own imagination without a direct renunciation of any Truth which before he was instructed in And this is that which I intended when I told you that your Church is fallen by partiall Apostasie and by Heresie Shee hath renounced many of the important Truths which the old Roman Church once believed and professed and so is fallen by Apostasie And she hath invented or coyned many Articles pretended to be of faith which the old Roman Church never believed and so is fallen by Heresie also Now what say you hereunto Why good S r in this division Apostasie is set to express a totall relapse in opposition to Heresie which is the partiall But who gave you warrant or leave so to set them It would it may be somewhat serve your turn in evading the Charge of Apostasie that lyes against your Church but Good S r will not prove that you may thus confound things for your advantage Idolatry is Heresie and Apostasie is Heresie and what not because you suppose you have found a way to escape the imputation of Heresie I say then yet again in answer to your enquiry that your Church is fallen by Apostasie in her relinquishment of many important truths and neglect of many necessary duties which the old Roman Church embraced and performed That these may be the more evident unto you I shall give you some few instances of your Apostasie desiring only that you would grant me that the primitive Church of Rome believed and faithfully retained the doctrine of truth wherein from the Scripture it was instructed That Church believed expresly that all they who die in the Lord do rest from all their labours Rev. 14. 8. which truth you have forsaken by sending many of them into the flames of Purgatory It believed that the sufferings of this life are not worthy of the glory that shall be revealed in us Rom. 8. 18. Your Church is otherwise minded asserting in our works and sufferings a merit of and condignity unto the glory that shall be received It believed that we were saved freely by grace by faith which is not of our selves but the gift of God not by works left any one should boast Eph 2. 8. Tit. 3. 5. and therefore besought the Lord not to enter into judgement with them because in his sight no flesh could be justified Psal. 130. 4. 143. 2. And you are apostatized from this part of their faith It believed that Christ was once only offered Heb. 10 12. and that it could not be that he should often offer himself because then he must have often suffered and died Heb. 9. 25. Which faith of theirs you are departed from It believed that we have one only Mediatour and Intercessour with God 1 Tim. 2. 5. 1 Joh. 2. 2. Wherein also you have renounced their perswasion as likewise you have done in what it professed that we may invocate only him in whom we do believe Rom. 10. 14. It believed that the Command to abstain from Meats and Marriage was the doctrine of Devils 1 Tim. 4. 1 2. Do you abide in the same faith It believed that Every soul without exception was to be subject to the higher Powers Rom. 13. 1. You will not
walk in the steps of their faith herein It believed that all Image-worship was forbidden Exod. 20. And whether you abide in the same perswasion we shall afterwards examine And many more instances of the like kind you may at any time be minded of You hast to that you would fain be at which will be found as little to your purpose as those whose consideration you so carefully avoid You say Did she fall by Heresie in adhering to any errour in Faith contrary to the approved doctrine of the Church Here you smile seriously and tell me that since I take the Roman and Catholick Church to be one she could not indeed adhere to any thing but what she did adhere unto S r I take them indeed to be one but here I speak ad hominem to one that doth not take them so And then if indeed the Roman Church had ever swerved in faith as you say she has and be her self as another ordinary particular Church as you say she is them might you find some one or other more generall Church if any there were to judge her some Oecumenicall Councell to condemn her some Fathers either Greek and Latin expresly to writs against her as Protestants now do some or other grave Authority to censure her or at least some company of Believers out of whose body she went and from whose faith she fell None of which since you are not able to a assign wherein you have spoken more rightly than you were aware of for not to be able to assign none of them infers at least an ability to assign some if not all of them my Query remains unanswered and the Roman still as flourishing a Church as ever she was Answ. 1. You represent my Answer lamely I desire the Reader to consult it in the Animadversions pag. 66 67 68. What you have taken notice of discovers only your fineness in making Heresie an adherence to an errour in faith contrary to the doctrine of the Church and your selves the Church whereby you must needs be secured from Heresie though you should adhere to the most hereticall Principles that ever were broached in the world But nothing of all this as I have shewed will be allowed you 2. As we have seen some of the Reasons why you were so unwilling to try the Cause of your Church on the heads of Idolatry and Apostasie so here you discover a sufficient Reason why you have passed over your other head of Schism in silence You avow your self one of the most schismaticall Principles that were ever adhered unto by any professing the name of Christ. The Roman Church and the Catholick are with you one and the same Is not this Petilianus his in parte Donati nay Basilides his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epiphan Heres 4. We only are men all others are Dogs and Swine Macte virtute If this be not to shew modcration and to persue reconciliation at once to shut out all men but your selves from the Church here and consequently Heaven hereafter what can be thought so to be In earnest S r you may talk what you please of moderation but whilest you avow this one wretched schismaticall Principle you do your endeavour to exclude all true Christian moderation out of the world 3. Why do you conclude that your Query is not answered Suppose one Question could not be answered doth it necessarily follow that another cannot I suppose you take notice that this is another Question and not that at first proposed as I told you before Your first enquiry was about your Churches crime this is about her conviction and condemnation and your Conclusion hath no strength in it but what is built on this unquestionable Maxim that None ever offended who was not publickly judged as though there were no Harlot in the world but those that have been carted It is enough S r that her condition is sub judice as it will be whether you or I will or no and that there is not evidence wanting for her conviction nor ever was since her fall though it may be it hath not at all times been so publickly managed And yet so vain is your triumphant Conclusion that we rest not here but prove also that she hath been of old judged and condemned as you will hear anon And thus I have once more given you an Answer to your enquiry how your Church fell namely that she hath done so by all the wayes and means by which it is possible for a Church to fall She failed under the just hand of God when the persons of that Vrbick Church were extirpated partly by others but totally by Totilas as the Brittish Church in England fell by the sword of the Saxons She hath fallen by Idolatry and corruption of life as did the Church of the Jews before the Captivity She hath fallen by her relinquishment of the written Word as the only rule of faith and worship and by adhering to the uncertain traditions of men as did the Church of the Jews after their return from captivity She hath fallen by Apostasie in forsaking the profession of many important truths of the Gospel as the Church of the Galatians did for a season in their relinquishment of the doctrine of Justification by grace alone She hath fallen by Heresie in coyning new Articles of faith and imposing them on the consciences of the Disciples of Christ as the Montanists did with their new Paraclete and rigid observances She hath fallen by Schisme in her self as the Judaical Church did when divided into Essenes Sadduces and Pharisees setting up Pope against Pope and Councell against Councell continuing in her intestine broils for some ages together and from all others by the wretched Principle but-now avowed by you as the Donatists did of old She hath fallen by Ambition in the Hildebrandine Principle asserting a Soveraignty in the Pope over the Kings and Potentates of the earth whereof I can give you no precedent instance unless it be of him who claimed the Kingdomes of the world to be his own and boasted that he disposed of them at his pleasure Mat. 4. And now I hope you will not take it in ill part that I have given you a plain Answer unto your Question which as I suppose was proposed unto us for that end and purpose But although these things are evident and sufficiently proved yet I see nothing will satisfie you unless we produce testimonies of former times to manifest that your Church hath been arraigned judged condemned written against by Fathers Councils or other Churches Now though this be somewhat an unreasonable expectation in you and that which I am no way bound unto by the Law of our Discourse to satisfie you in yet to prevent for the future such Ivasions as you have made use of on all occasions in your Epistle I shall in a few pregnant and unquestionable Instances give you an account both when how and by whom the falls of your Church have been
believed to belong to the Unity of Faith Lastly The Determinations of your Church you make to be the next efficient Cause of your Unity now these not being absolutely infallible leave it like Delos flitting up and down in the Sea of Probabilities only This we shall manifest unto you immediately at least we shall evidence that you have no cogent reasons nor slable grounds to prove your Church infallible in her Determinations At present it shall suffice to mind you that she hath Determined Contradictions and that in as eminent a manner as it is possible for her to declare her sense by namely by Councils confirmed by Popes and an infallible determination of Contradictions is not a Notion of any easie digestion in the thoughts of a man in his right wits We confess then that we cannot agree with you in your Rule of the Unity of Faith though the thing its self we press after as our Duty For 2. Protestants do not conceive this Vnity to consist in a precise Determination of all Questions that are or may be raised in or about things belonging unto the Faith whether it be made by your Church or any other way Your Thomas of Aquine who without question is the best and most sober of all your School Doctors hath in one Book given us 522 Articles of Religion which you esteem mraculously stated Quot Articuli tot Miracula All these have at least five Questions one with another stated and determined in explication of them which amount unto 2610 Conclusions in matters of Religion Now we are farre from thinking that all these Determinations or the like belong unto the Unity of Faith though much of the Religion amongst some of you lyes in not dissenting from them The Questions that your Bellarmine hath determined and asserted the Positions in them as of faith and necessary to be believed are I think neer 40 times as many as the Articles of the antient Creed of the Church and such as it is most evident that if they be of the nature and importance pretended it is impossible that any considerable number of men should ever be able to discharge their duty in this business of holding the Vnity of Faith That a man believe in generall that the holy Scripture is given by inspiration from God and that all things proposed therein for him to believe are therefore infallibly true and to be as such believed and that in particular he believe every Article or point of Truth that he hath sufficient means for his instruction in and conviction that it is so revealed they judg to be necessary unto the holding of the Unity of Faith And this also they know that this sufficiency nf means unto every one that enjoys the benefit of the Scriptures extends its self unto all those Articles of Truth which are necessary for him to believe so as that he may yield unto God the obedience that he requireth receive the holy Spirit of promise and be accepted with God Herein doth that Vnity of Faith which is amongst the Disciples of Christ in the world consist and ever did nor can do so in any thing else Nor doth that variety of Apprehensions that in many things is found among the Disciples of Christ and ever was render this Vnity like that you plead for various and incertain For the Rule and formall Reason of it namely Gods Revelation in the Scripture is still one and the same perfectly unalterable And the severall degrees that men attain uuto in their Apprehensions of it doth no more reflect a charge of variety upon it than the difference of Seeing as to the severall degrees of the sharpness or obtuseness of our bodily eyes doth upon the Light given by the Sunne The Truth is if there was any common measure of the Assents of men either as to the intension of it as it is subjectively in their minds or extension of it as it respecteth Truths revealed that belonged unto the Vnity of Faith it were impossible there should be any such thing in the world at least that any such thing should be known to be Only this I acknowledg that it is the Duty of all men to come up to the full and explicit acknowledgment of all the Truths revealed in the word of God wherein the Glory of God and the Christians Duty are concerned as also to a joynt consent in Faith objective or propositions of Truth revealed at least in things of most importance though their faith subjective or the internal assent of their minds have as it will have in severall Persons various degrees yea in the same Persons it may be at different seasons And in our labouring to come up unto this joynt-acknowledgment of the same sense and intendment of God in all revealed Truths consists our endeavour after that perfection in the Vnity of Faith which in this life is attainable as our moderation doth in our walking in peace and love with and towards others according to what we have already attained We may distinguish then between that Unity of Faith which an interest in gives Vnion with Christ unto them that hold it and Communion in Love with all equally interested therein and that Accomplishment of it which gives a sameness of Profession and consent in all acts of outward Communion in the worship of God The first is found in and amongst all the Disciples of Christ in the world where-ever they are the latter is that which moreover it is your Duty to press after The former consists in an Assent in generall unto all the Truths of God revealed in the Scripture and in particular unto them that we have sufficient means to evidence them unto us to be so revealed The latter may come under a double consideration for either there may be required unto it in them who hold it the joynt perception of and assent unto every Truth revealed in the Scripture with an equall degree of certainty in adherence and evidence in perception and it is not in this life wherein the best of us know but in part attainable or only such a concurrence in an assent unto the necessary Propositions of Truth as may enable them to hold together that outward Communion in the worship of God which we before mentioned And this is certainly attainable by the wayes and means that shall immediately be layed down And where this is there is the Vnity of Faith in that compleatness which we are bound to labour for the attainment of This the Apostolicall Churches enjoyed of old and unto the recovery whereof there is nothing more prejudiciall than your new stating of it upon the account of your Churches Proposals This Unity of Faith we judg good and necessary and that it is our Duty to press after it So also in generall do you It remains then that we consider what is the way what are the means and Principles that Protestants propose and insist upon for the attainment of it that is in answer
quiver are these arrows taken Is this fair sober Candid Christian dealing have you no way to defend the Authority of your Church but by Questioning the Authority of the Scripture Did ever any of the Fathers of old or any in the world before your selves take this course to plead their interests in any thing they professed Is this Practice Catholick or like many of your Principles singular your own Donatisticall Is it any great sign that you have an interest in that living Child when you are so ready he should be destroyed rather than you would be cast in your Contest with Protestants 2. Do you think that this course of proclaiming to Atheists Turks and Pagans that the Scripture which all Christians maintain against them to be the Word of the Living GOD given by inspiration from Him and on which the Faith of all the Martyrs who have suffered from their opposition rage and cruelty and of all others that truly believe in Jesus Christ was and is founded and whereinto it is resolved hath no Arguments of its Divine Original implanted on it no lines of the Excellencies and Perfections of its Author drawn on it no power or efficacy towards the Consciences of men evidencing its Authority over them no ability of its self to comfort and support them in their tryals and sufferings with the hope of things that are not seen Is this think you an acceptable service unto the Lord Christ who will one day judg the secrets of all hearts according unto that Word or Is it not really to expose Christian Religion to scorn and contempt And do you find so much sweetness in Delus an Virtus quis in hoste requirat as to cast off all Reverence of God and his Word in the pursuit of the supposed Adversaries of your earthly Interests 3. If your Arguments and Objections are effectuall and privalent unto the end for which you intend them will not your direct issue be the utter overthrow of the very foundation of the whole Profession of Christians in the world And are you like Sampson content to pull down the house that must fall upon your selves also so that you may stifle Protestants with its sall It may be it were well you should do so were it an house of Dagon a Temple dedicated unto Idols but to deal so with that wherein dwels the Majesty of the Living GOD is not so justifiable It is true Evert this Principle and you overthrow the foundation on which the faith of Protestants is built but it is no less true that you do the same to the foundation of the Christian Faith in generall wherein wee hope your own concernment also lyes And this is the thing that I am declaring unto you namely that either you acknowledg the Principles on which Protestants build their Faith and Profession or by denying them you open a door unto Atheism at least to the extirpation of Christian Religion out of the world I confess you pretend a relief against the present instance in the Authority of your Church sufficient as you say to give a Credibility unto the Scriptures though its own self-evidencing Power and Efficacy with the Confirmation of it by Catholick Tradition exclusive to your present suffrage be rejected Now I suppose you will grant that the Prop you supply men withall upon your casting down the foundations on which they have laid the weight of their eternall Salvation had need be firm and immoveable And remember that you have to do with them who though they may be otherwise inclineable unto you Non tamen ignorant quid distent aera a lupinis and must use their own judgement in the Consideration of what you tender unto them And they Ask you 1. What will you do if it be as you say with them who absolutely reject the Authority of your Châ—â—ch which is the condition of more than a moyety of the Inhabitants of the world to speak sufficiently within compass And 2. What will you advise us to say to innumerable other Persons that are pious and rational who upon the meer consideration of the lives of many of the most of the guides of your Church your bloody inhumane practices your pursuit of worldly carnall designs your visible secular interest wherein you are combined and united cannot perswade themselves that the Testimony of your Church in and about things that are invisible spirituall heavenly and eternall is at all valuable much less that it is sufficient to bear the weight you would lay upon it 3. Was not this the way and method of Vaninus for the Introduction of his Atheism first to question sleight and sophistically except against the old approved Arguments and Evidences manifesting the beeing and existence of a Divine self-subsisting Power substituting in their room for the confirmation of it his own Sophisms which himself knew might be easily discussed and disproved Do you deal any better with us in decrying the Scripture's self-evidencing Efficacy with the Testimony given unto it by God himself substituting nothing in the room thereof but the Authority of your Church A man certainly can take up nothing upon the sole Authority of your Church untill contrary to the pretensions Reasons and Arguments of far a greater number of Christians than your selves he acknowledge you to be a true Church at least if not the only Church in the world Now how I pray will you bring him into that state and condition that he may rationally make any such judgement How will you prove unto him that there is any such thing as a Church in the World that a Church hath any Authority that its Testimony can make any thing credible or meet to be believed You must prove these things to him or whatever assent he gives unto what you say is from fanaticall credulity To suppose that he should believe you upon your word because you are the Church is to suppose that he believes that which you are yet but attempting to induce him to believe If you persist to press him without other proof not only to believe what you first said unto him but also even this that whatever you shall say to him hereafter that he must believe it because you say it Will not any rationall man nauseate at your unreasonable importunity and tell you that men who have a mind to be befooled may meer with such Alchymisticall pretenders all the world over Will you perswade him that you are the Church and that the Church is furnished with the Authority mentioned by rational Arguments I wish you would inform me of any one that you can make use of that doth not include a Supposition of something unproved by you and which can never be proved but by your own Authority which is the thing in Question or the immediate Authority of God which you reject A number indeed of pretences or it may be Probabilities you may heap together which yet upon examination will not be found so much neither unless a
man will swallow amongst them that which is destitute of all Probability but what is included in the evidence given unto it by Divine Revelation which is not yet pleaded unto him It may be then you will work Miracles to confirm your Assertions Let us see them For although very many things are requisite to manifest any works of wonder that may be wrought in the world to be reall Miracles and good Caution be required to judge unto what end Miracles are wrought yet if we may have any tolerable evidence of your working Miracles in Confirmation of this Assertion that you are the true and only Church of God with the other Inferences depending thereon which we are in the Consideration of you will find us very easie to be treated withall But herein also you fail You have then no way to deal with such a man as we first supposed but as you do with us and produce Testimonies of Scripture to prove and confirm the Authority of your Church and then you will quickly find where you are and what snares you have cast your selves into Will not a man who hears you proving the Authority of your Church by the Scripture ask you And whence hath this Scripture its Authority yea that is supposed to be the thing in Question which denying unto it an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you yet produce to confirm the Authority of that by whose Authority alone its self is evidenced to have any Authority at all Rest in the Authority of God manifesting its self in the Scripture witnessed unto by the Catholick Tradition of all Ages you will not But you will prove the Scripture to be the Word of God by the Testimony of your Church and you will prove your Châ—â—â—h to be enabled sufficiently to testifie the Scriptures to be of God by the Testimonies of the Scripture Would you knew where to begin and where to end But you are indeed in a Circle which hath neither beginning nor ending I know not when we shall be enabled to say Inventus Chrysippe tui finitor acervi Now do you think it reasonable that we should leave our stable and immoveable firm foundations to run round with you in this endless Circle untill through giddiness we fall into Unbelief or Atheism This is that which I told you before you must either acknowledge our Principle in this matter to be firm and certain or open a door to Atheism and the Contempt of Christian Religion seeing you are not able to substitute and thing in the room thereof that is able to bear the weight that must be laid upon it if we believe For how should you do so shall man be like unto God or equall unto him The Testimony we rest in is Divine fortified from all Objections by the strongest humane Testimony possible namely Catholick Tradition That which you would supply us with is meerly Humane and no more And 4. your Importunity in opposing this Principle is so much the more marvellous unto us because therein you openly oppose your selves to express Testimonies of Scripture and the full Suffrage of the Ancient Church I wish you would a little weigh what is affirmed 2 Pet. 1. 19 20. Psal. 119. 152. Joh. 5. 34 35 36 39. 1 Thess. 2. 13. Act. 17. 11. 1 Joh. 5. 6 10. 1 Joh. 2. 20. Heb. 11. 1 Tim. 1. 15. Act. 26. 22. And will you take with you the consent of the Ancients Clemens Alexand. Strom. 7. speaks fully to our purpose as he doth also lib. 4. where he plainly affirms that the Church proved the Scripture by its selfâ— and other things as the Unity of the Deity by the Scripture But his own words in the former place are worth the recital 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the beginning of Faith or Principle of what we teach we have the Lord who in sundry manners and by divers parts by the Prophets Gospel and holy Apostles leads us to knowledge And if any one suppose that a Principle stands in need of another to prove it he destroys the nature of a Principle or it is no longer preserved a Principle This is that we say The Scripture the Old and New Testament is the Principle of our Faith This is proved by its self to be of the Lord who is its Author and if we cause it to depend on any thing else it is no longer the Principle of our Faith and Profession And a little after where he hath shewed that a Principle ought not to be disputed nor to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any debate he addes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is meet then that receiving by Faith the most absolute Principle without other demonstration and taking demonstrations of the Principle from the Principle its self that we be instructed by the voice of the Lord unto the knowledge of the Truth That is we believe the Scripture for its own sake and the Testimony that God gives unto it in it and by it and do prove every thing else by it and so are confirmed in the faith or knowledge of the Truth So he further explains himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For we do not simply or absolutely attend or give heed unto men determining or defining against whom it is equall that we may define or declare our judgements So it is whilest the Authority of man or men any Society of men in the world is pleaded the Authority of others may be as good reason be objected against it as whilest you plead your Church and its definitions others may on as good grounds oppose theirs unto you therein And therefore Clemens proceeds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For if it be not sufficient meerly to declare or assert that which appears to be truth but also to make that Credible or fit to be believed which is spoken we seek not after the Testimony that is given by men but we confirm that which is proposed or enquired about with the voice of the Lord which is more full than any demonstration or rather is its self the only demonstration according to the knowledge whereof they that have tasted of the Scriptures are believers Into the voice the Word of God alone the Church then resolved their Faith this only they built upon acknowledging all humane Testimony to be too weak and infirm to be made a foundation for it And this voice of God in the Scripture evidencing its self so to be is the only Demonstration of Faith which they rested in whereupon a little after he addes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so wee having perfect Demonstrations out of the Scriptures are by Faith demonstratively assured or perswaded of the Truth of the things proposed This was the Profession of the Church of old this the resolution of their faith This is that which Protestants in this Case adhere unto They proved the Scripture to be from God as he elswhere speaks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as
involve the whole interest of Christianity in its ruine Where is the defect where the hinderance why all men upon these Principles however differing at present may not come to a full Settlement and Agreement I hope you will find none but what are in them selves and for them ipsi-viderint the Scripture is blameless Here is Certainty of Revelation from God Fullness of that Revelation as to our Duty Clearness and perspicuity for our understanding of it Means appointed and sanctified for that end what I pray is wanting All Truths wherein it is the Duty of men to agree are fixed and stated so that it can never be lawfull for any man in any generation to call any of them into question plain and evident that no man can mistake the mind of God in them in things wherein his Duty is concerned without his own crime and guilt You will say then it may be But why then do not men agree why do you not agree among your selves but I would hope that it is scarcely possible for any man to be so ignorant of the Condition of mankind and amongst them of the best of men as seriously to ask this Question Are not all men naturally blind in the things of God Do not the best of men know only in part have not the different tempers constitutions and Educations of men a great influence upon their understandings and judgements Besides do not Lusts Corruptions Carnall Interests and Respect unto Worldly things bear sway sin the minds of many that profess Christian Religion Are not many prepossessed with prejudices traditions customes and usages against the Truth And are not these things and the like sufficient to keep up variance in the world without the least suspition of any disability in the Scripture to bring them to an holy agreement and immoveable Settlement Neither is there any other way for men to come unto Settlement and Agreement in Religion according to the mind of God but that only which hath been now proposed and this they will come unto when all men shall be perswaded to captivate their understandings to the obedience of Faith I deny not but that by outward force and compulsion by supine negligence of their own concernments by refusing to btehink themselves and such other wayes and means some men may come to some Agreement amongst themselves in the things of Religion But this Agreement we say is not of God it is not built upon the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the foundation of faith towards God and so is of no esteem with him That such is all the Vnity which on your Principles you are able to bring men unto wee shall manifest in our next Discourse For the present I dare challenge you or any man in the world to question or oppose any one of the Principles before laid down and which whilest they stand firm it is evident unto all how the Scripture is able to seâ—tle men unquestionably in the Truth and that for ever 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I shall close this Discourse with a passage out of Chrysostome which fully confirms all that I have asserted it is in Homil 33. in Act. Apost Chap. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 What shall wee say unto the Gentiles A Gentile cometh and faith I would be a Christian but I know nat unto whom amongst you I should adhere Let us hear the reasons of his haesitation saith hee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 There are many contentions seditions and tumults amongst you what opinion to choose I know not every one sayes I am in the Truth and I am utterly ignorant of what is in the Scripture about these things Do you know whose Objections these are and by whom they have been lately mannaged Will you hear what Chrysostome answers Saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This makes wholly for us for if wee should say that wee believe on probable reasonings thou maist justly be troubled but seeing wee profess that we believe in the Scriptures which are plain and true it is easie for thee to judg and determine He that yeilds his consent unto them he is a Christian and he that contends against them is farre from the Rule of Christianity And in the process of his Discourse which is well worth the perusall before you write any more familiar Epistles he requires no more of a man to settle him in the Truth but that he receive the Scripture and have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a mind and judgment to use in the consideration of it It remaineth now that wee consider what it is that you propose unto men to bring them unto a Settlement in Religion and all Christians to the Vnity of Faith with the Principles that you proceed upon to that purpose which because I would not too far lengthen out this Discourse I shall refer to the next Chapter CHAP. VIII Principles of Papists whereon they proceed in bringing men to a Settlement in Religion and the Vnity of Faith examined YOur Plea to this purpose is blended with a double pretence of Pope and Church Sometimes you tell us of the Pope and his succession to S t Peter And sometimes of the Church and its Authority Sometimes you speak as if both these were one and the same And sometimes you seem to distinguish them Some of you lay most weight upon the Papall suceession and Infallibility and some on the Churches Jurisdiction and Authority I shall crave leave to take your pleas a-sunder and first to consider what force they have in them as unto the End whereunto they are applied severally and apart and then see what in their joint concurrence they can contribute thereunto And what ever you think of it I suppose this course of proceeding will please ingenuous persons and Lovers of Truth because it enables them to take a distinct view of the things whereon they are to give judgment Whereas in your handling of them something you suppose something you insinuate something you openly averr yet so confound them with other heterogenious Discourses that it can hardly be discerned what grounds you build upon A way of proceeding which as it argues a secret guilt and fear of bringing forth your Principles to Light so a gross kind of Sophistry exploded by all Masters of Reason whatsoever They would not have us fumum ex fulgore sed ex fumo dare lucem darken things clear and perspicuous in themselves but to make things dark and confused perspicuous And the Orator tells us that Epicurus his discourse was ambiguous because his Sententia was inhonesta his Opinion shamefull And to what purpose should any one contend with you about such generall ambiguous expressions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I shall then begin with the Pope and his Infallibility because you seem to lay most weight thereon and tell us plainly pag. 379 of your Fiat Edit 2 d That if the Pope be not an unerring guide in Affairs of Religion all is lost
his Apostleship If you will then have any to succeed him in the enjoyment of any or of all these Privileges you must bespeak him to succeed him in his Apostleship and not in his Bishoprick Besides as I said before this imaginary Episcopacy which limits and confines him unto a particular Church as it doth if it be an Episcopacy properly so called is destructive of his Apostolical Office and of his Duty in answering the Commission given him of preaching the Gospel to every Creature following the Guidance of Gods Providence and conduct of the Holy Ghost in his way Many of the Ancients I confess affirm that Peter sate Bishop of the Church of Rome but they all evidently use the word in a large sense to imply that during his abode there for that there he was they did suppose be took upon him the especial Care of that Church For the same Persons constantly affirm that Paul also was Bishop of the same Church at the same time which cannot be otherwise understood than in the large sense mentioned And Ruffinus Prafat Recog Clement ad Gâ—udent unriddles the mystery Linus saith he Clâ—tus fuerunt ante Clementem Episcopi in â—rbe Roma sed superstite Petro videlicet at illi Episcopatûs Curam gererent iste verò Apostolatûs simpleret officium Linus and Cletus were Bishops in the City of Rome before Clemens but whilest Peter was yet alive they performing the Duty of Bishops Peter attending unto his office Apostolical And hereby doth he utterly discard the present new plea of the foundation of your faith For though he assert that Peter the Apostle was at Rome yet he denies that he ever sate Bishop there but names two others that ruled that Church at Rome joyntly during his time either in one Assembly or in two the one of the Circumcision the other of the Gentile-Converts And if Peter were thus Bishop of Rome and entred as you say upon his Episcopacy at his first coming thither whence is it that you are forced to confess that he was so long absent from his charge Five years saith Bellarmine but that will by no means salve the Difficulty Seven saith Onuphrius at once and abiding at one place the most part of his time besides being spent in other places and yet allowing him no time at all for those places where he certainly was Eighteen saith Cortefius strange that he should be so long absent from his especiall Cure and never write one word to them for their instruction or consolation whereas in the mean time he wrote two Epistles unto them who it seems did not in any speciall manner belong unto his Charge I wish we could once find our way out of this maze of uncertainties This is but a sad disquisition after Principles of faith to settle men in Religion by them And yet if we should suppose this also wee are farre enough from our journeys end The present Bishop of Rome is as yet behind the curtain neither can he appear upon the stage untill hâ— be ushered in by one pretence more of the same nature with them that went before And this is V. That some one must needs succeed Peter in his Episcopacy But why so why was it not needfull that one should succeed him in his Apostleship Why was it not needfull that Paul should have a successor as well as Peter and John as well as either of them Because you say that was necessary for the Church not so these But who told you so where is the proof of what you averre who made you judges of what is necessary and what is not necessary for the Church of Christ when himself is silent And why is not the succession of an Apostle necessary as well as of such a Bishop as you fancie had it not been better to have had one still residing in the Church of whose Infallibility there could have been no doubt or question One that had the power of working Miracles that should have no need to scare the people by shaking fire out of his slieve as your Pope Gregory the 7 th was wont to do if Cardinall Benno may be believed But you have now carried us quite off from the Scripture and Story and probable conjectures to attend unto you whilest you give the Lord Jesus prudentiall advice about what is necessary for his Church It must needs be so it is meet it should be so is the best of your proof in this matter Only your fratres Walenburgici adde that never any man ordained the Government of a Community more weakly than Christ must be supposed to have done the Government of his Church if he have not appointed such a Successour to Peter as you imagin But it is easie for you to assert what you please of this nature and as easie for any one to reject what you so assert if he please These things are without the verge of Christian Religion 〈◊〉 Towers and Palaces in the ayr But what must S t Peter be succeeded in his Episcopacy and what therewithall his Authority Power and Jurisdiction over all Churches in the world with an unerring judgement in matters of faith But all these belonged unto Peter as far as ever they belonged unto him as he was an Apostle long before you fancie him to have been a Bishop As then his Episcopacy came without these things so for ought you know it might goe without it This is a matter of huge importance in that Systeme of Principles which you tender unto us to bring us unto settlement in Religion and the Unity of Faith would you would consider a little how you may give some tolerable appearance of proof unto that which the Scripture is so utterly silent in yea which lyes against the whole Oeconomy of the Lord Jesus Christ in his ordering of his Church as delivered unto us therein dic aliquem dic Quintiliane colorem But we come now to the Pope whom here we first find latentem post Priâ—cipia and coming forth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with his Claim For you say VI. That the Bishop of Rome is the man that thus suecceds Peter in his Episcopacy which though it were settled at Rome was over the whoee Catholick Church So you say and so you profess your selves to believe And we desire that you would not take it amiss if we desire to know upon what grounds you do so being unwilling to cast away all Consideration that we may embrace a fanatical Credo in this unlikely business We desire therefore to know who appointed that there should be any such succession who that the Bishop of Rome should be this Successor Did Jesus Christ do it we may justly expect you should say He did but if you do we desire to know when where how seeing the Scripture is utterly silent of say such thing Did S t Peter himself do it Pray manifest unto us that by the appointment of Jesus Christ he had power so to do and that
flattering your selves with an imagination of any other Priviledge is that which hath wrought your ruine You are deceived if in this matter you are of Menander's mind who sayed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that all will of its own accord fall out well with you though you sleep securely As for all other Churches in the world besides your own wee have your concession not only that they were and are fallible but that they have actually erred long since and the same hath been proved against yours a thousand times and your best Reserve against particular charges of Errour lyes in this impertinent generall pretence that you cannot erre It may be you will ask for you use so to do and it is the design of your Fiat to promote the â—nquiry If the Church be fallible that is to propose unto us the things and Doctrines that we are to believe How can we with faith infallible believe her proposals And I tell you truly I know not how we can if we believe them only upon her Authority or she propose them to be believed solely upon that account but when she proposeth them unto us to be believed on the Authority of God speaking in the Srciptures we both can and do believe what she teacheth and proposeth and that with faith infallible resolved into the Veracity of God in his Word and we grant every Church to be so farre infallible as it attends unto the only Infallible Rule amongst men When you prove that any one Church is by any promise of Christ any grant of Priviledge expressed or intimated in the Scripture placed in an unerring condition any farther than as in the use of the means appointed she attends unto the only Rule of her preservation or that any Church shall be â—ecessitated to attend unto that Rule whether she will or no whereby she may be preserved or can give us an instance of any Church since the foundation of the world that hath been actually preserved and absolutely from all errour other than that of your own which you know we cannot admit of as you will do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great and memorable work so we shall grant as much as you can reasonably desire of us upon the account of the Assertion under consideration But untill you do some one or all of these your crying out The Church the Church the Church cannot erre makes no other noyse in our ears than that of the Jews The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord the Law shall not fail did in the ears of the Prophets of old Neither do we speak this of the Church or any Church as though we were concerned to question or deny any just Priviledges belonging unto it thereby to secure our selves from any pretensions of yours but meerly for the sake of Truth For we shall manifest anon unto you that you are as little concerned in the Priviledges of the Church be they what they will more or less as any Society of the Professours of Christianity in the world if so be that you are concerned in them at all So that if the Truth would permit us to agree with you in all things that you assign unto the Church yet the difference between you and us were never the nearer to an end for we should still differ with you about your share and interest therein and for ever abhor your frowardness in appropriating of them all unto your selves And herein as I sayed hath lyen a great part of your ruine Whilest you have been sweetly dreaming of an Infallibility you have really plunged your selves into errours innumerable and when any one hath jogged you to awake you out of your fatall sleep by minding you of your particular errours your dream hath left such an impression upon your imagination as that you think them no errours upon this only ground because you cannot erre I am perswaded had it not been for this one errour you had been freed from many others But this perfectly disiâ—ables you for any candid Inquisition after the Truth For why should he once look about him or indeed so much as take care to keep his eyes open who is sure that he can never be out of his way Hence you inquire not at all whether what you profess be Truth or not but to learn what your Church teacheth and defend it is all that you have to do about Religion in this world And whatever Absurdities or Inconveniencies you find your selves driven unto in the handling of particular points all is one they must be right though you cannot defend them because your Church which cannot erre hath so declared them to be And if you should chance to be convinced of any Truth in particular that is contrary to the determination of your Church you know not how to embrace it but must shut your eyes against its light and evidence and cast it out of your minds or wander up and down with a various assent between Contradictions Well said he of old 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This is flat folly namely for a man to live in rebellion unto his own light But you adde III. That your selves that is the Pope with those who in matters of Religion adhere unto him and live in subjection unto him are this Church in an assent unto whose infallible teachings and Determinations the Vnity of Faith doth consist Could you prove this Assertion I confess it would stand you in good stead But before we enquire aftes that we shall endeavour a little to come unto a right understanding of what you say When you affirm tâ—at the Roman Church is the Church of Christ you intend either that it is the only Church of Christ all the Church of Christ and so consequently the Catholick Church or you mean that it is a Church of Christ which hath an especiall Prerog ative enabling it to require obedience of all the Disciples of Christ. If you say the former we desire to know 1. when it became so to be It was not so when all the Church was together at Hierusâ—lem and no foundation of any Church at all laid at Rome Acts 1. 1 2 3 4 5. It was not so when the first Church of the Gentiles was gathered at Antioch and the Disciples first began to be called Christians for as yet we have no tydings of any Church at Rome It was not so when Paul wrote his Epistles for he makes express mention of many other Church in other places which had no relation unto any Churches at Rome more than they had one to another in their common Profession of the same faith and therein enjoyed equall gifts and Priviledges with it It was not so in the dayes of the Primitive Fathers of the first three hundred years who all of them not one excepted took the Roman to be a local particular Church and the Bishop of Rome to be such a Bishop as they esteemed of all other Churches and Bishops
Their perswasion in this matter is expressed in the beginning of the Epistle of Clemens or Church of Rome unto the Church of Corinth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church that is at Rome to the Church that is at Corinth both locall Churches both equall And such is the language of all the Writers of those times It was not so in the dayes of the Fathers and Councels of the next three Centuries who still accounted it a particular Church Diocesaen or Patriarchal but all of them particular never calling it Catholick but upon the account of its holding the Catholick faith as they called all other Churches that did so in opposition to the Errours Heresies and Schilms of any in their dayes We desire then to know when it became the only or absolutely Catholick Church of Christ As also secondly by what means it became so to be It did not do so by virtue of any Institution Warrant or Command of Christ You were never able to produce the least intimation of any such Warrant out of any Writing of Divine Inspiration nor approved Catholick Writer of the first Ages after Christ though it hugely concern you so to do if it were possible to be done but they all expresly teach that which is inconsistent with such pretences It did not do so by any Decree of the first Generall Councels which are all of them silent as to any such thing and some of them as those of Nice Ephesus and Chalcâ—don expresly declare and determine the contrary at least that which is contrary thereunto We can find no other way or means whereby it can pretend unto this vast Priviledge unless it be the grant of Phocas unto Boniface that he should be called the Vniversal Bishop who to serve his own ends was very liberal of that which was not at all in his power to bestow And yet neither is this though it be a means that you have more reason to be ashamed than to boast of sufficient to found your present Claim considering how that name was in those dayes no more than a name a meer aâ—ry ambitions Title that carried along with it no reall power and stet magni nominis umbra Secondly We cannot give our assent unto this Claim of yours because we should thereby be necessitated to cut off from the Church and consequently all hope of salvation farre the greatest number of men in the world who in this and all foregoing Ages have called and do call upon the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ their Lord and ours This we dare not do especially considering that many of them have spent and do spend their dayes in great Affliction for their Testimony unto Christ and his Gospell and many of them every day seal their Testimony with their blood so belonging as we believe unto that holy army of Martyrs which continually praiseth God Now as herein we dare not concurre with you considering the charge given unto Timothy by Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not partaker of other mens sins so indeed we are perswaded that your opinion or rather presumption in this matter is extreamly injurious to the Grace of Christ the Love and Goodness of God as also to the Truth of the Gospell And therefore Thirdly We suppose this the most Schismaticall Principle that ever was broached under the Sun since there was a Church upon the earth and that because 1. It is the most groundless 2. The most unchritable that ever was and 3. Of the most pernicious consequence as having a principal influence into the present irreconcileableness of Differences among Christians in the world which will one day be charged on the Authors and Abettors of it For it will one day appear that it is not the various Conceptions of the minds of peaceable men about the things of God nor the various degrees of knowledge and faith that are found amongst them but groundless impositions of things as necessary to be believed and practised beyond Scripture warrant that are the Springs and Causes of all or at least the most blameable and sinfull differences among Christians Fourthly We know this pretence should it take place would prove extreamly hazardous unto the Truth of the Promises of Christ given unto the Catholick Church For suppose that to be one and the same with the Roman and whatever mishap may befall the one must be thought to befall the other for on your Supposition they are not only like Hippocrates twins that being born together wept and joyed together and together died but like Hippocrates himself as the same individuall Person or thing being both the same one Church that hath two names Catholick and Roman that is Universall-Particular no otherwise two than as Julius Caesar was when by his overawing his Collegue from the execution of his Office they dated their Acts at Rome Julio Casare Consulibus For as they said Non Bibulo quiâ—quam nuper sed Caesare factum est Nani Bibulo fieri Consule nil memini Now besides the failings which we know your Church to have been subject unto in point of Faith Manners and Worship it hath also been at least in danger of Destruction in the time of the prevalency of the Gâ—ths Vandals Huns and Longobards especially when Rome its self was left desolate and without Inhabitant by Totilas And what yet farther may befall it before the End of the world 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Only this I know that many are in expectation of a sad Catastrophe to be given unto it and that on grounds not to be despised Now God forbid that the Church unto which the Promises are made should be once thought to be subject unto all the dangers and hazards that you wilfully expose your selves unto So that as this is a very groundless presumption in its self so it is a very great aggravation of your miscarriages also whilest you seek to entitle the Catholick Church of Christ unto them which can neither contract any such guilt as you have done nor be liable to any such misery or punishment as you are Fifthly We see not the Promises made unto the Catholick Church fulfilled unto you as we see that to have befallen your Church which is contrary unto the Promises that ever is should befall the Catholick The conclusion then will necessarily on both instances follow that either your are not the Catholick Church or that the Promises of Christ have failed and been of none effect And you may easily guess which part of the Conclusion it is best and most safe for us to give assent unto I shall give you one or two instances unto this last head Christ hath promised his Spirit unto his Church that is the Catholick Church to abide with it for ever Joh. 14. 16. But this Promise hath not been made good unto your Church at all times because it hath not been so unto the head of it Many a time the Head of your Church hath not received the Spirit of Christ
then that of any of them And therefore on what terms and reasons soever a man may relinquish the opinions and renounce the Communion of any other Church upon the same may he renounce the Communion and relinquish the Opinions of yours And if there be no reasons sufficiently cogent so to deal with any Church whatever I pray on what grounds do you proceed to perswade others to such a Course that they may joyn with you Dicisque facisque quod ipse Non Sani esse hominis non sanus juret Orestes To disintangle you out of this Labyrinth whereinto you have cast your self I shall desire you to observe that if the Lord Christ by his Word be the Supream Revealer of all Divine Truth and the Church that is any Church whatever be only the Ministerial proposer of it under and from him being to be regulated in all its propositions by his Revelation if it shall chance to propose that for Truth which is not by him revealed as it may do seeing it hath no security of being preserved from such failures but only in its attendance unto that Rule which it may neglect or corrupt A man in such a Case cannot discharge his Duty to the Supream Revealer without dissenting from the Ministerial proposer Nay if it be a Truth which is proposed and a man dissent from it because he is not convinced that it is revealed he is in no danger to be induced to question other Propositions which he knows to be so revealed his faith being built upon and resolved into that Revelation alone All that remains of your discourse lyes with its whole weight on this presumption because some men may either wilfully prevaricare from the Truth or be mistaken in their apprehensions of it and so dissent from a Church that teacheth the truth and wherein she so teacheth it without cause therefore no man may or ought to relinquish the errors of a Church which he is really and truly convinced by Scripture and solid reason suitable thereunto so to be An inference so wild and so destructive of all assurance in every thing that is knowable in the world that I wonder how your Interest could induce you to give any countenance unto it For if no man can certainly and infallibly know any thing by any way or means wherein some or other are ignorantly or wilfully mistaken we must bid adiew for ever to the certain knowledge of any thing in this world And how slightly soever you are pleased to speak of Scripture Light Spirit and Reason they are the proper names of the wayes and helps that God hath graciously given to the sons of men to come to the knowledge of himself And if the Scripture by the assistance of the Spirit of God and the light unto it communicated unto men by him be not sufficient to lead them in the use and improvement of their Reason unto the saving knowledge of the will of God and that assurance therein which may be a firm foundation of acceptable obedience unto him they must be content to go without it for other wayes and means of it there are none But this is your manner of dealing with us All other Churches must be sleighted and relinquished the means appointed and sanctified by God himself to bring us unto the knowledge of and settlement in the Truth must be rejected that all men may be brought to a fanatical unreasonable resignation of their faith to you and your Church if this be not done men may with as good reason renounce Truth as Error and after they have rejected one error be inclined to cast off all that Truth for the sake whereof that error was rejected by them And I know not what other inconveniences and mischiefs will follow It must needs be well for you that you are Gallinae filius albae Seeing all others are Viles pulli nati infelicibus ovis Your only misadventure is that you are fallen into somewhat an unhappy age wheréin men are hard-hearted and will not give away their Faith and Reason to every one that can take the confidence to beg them at their hands But you will now prove by instances that if a man deny any thing that your Church proposeth he may with as good reason deny every Truth whatever I shall follow you through them and consider what in your matter or manner of proposal is worthy that serious perusal of them which you so much desire To begin See if the Quakers deny not as resolutely the regenerating power of Baptisme as you the efficacy of Absolution See if the Presbyterians do not with as much reason evacuate the Prelacy of Protestants as they the Papacy All things it seems are alike Truth and Error and may with the same reason be opposed and rejected And because some men renounce errors others may on as good grounds renounce the Truth and oppose it with as solid and cogent reasons The Scripture it seems is of no use to direct guide or settle men in these things that relate to the worship and knowledge of God What a strange dream hath the Church of God been in from the dayes of Moses if this be so Hitherto it hath been thought that what the Scripture teacheth in these things turned the scales and made the embracement of it reasonable as the rejection of them the contrary As the woman said to Joab They were wont to speak in old time saying they shall surely ask counsel at Abel and so they ended the matter They said in old time concerning these things To the Law and the Testimonies search the Scriptures and so they ended the matter But it seems tempora mutantur and that now Truth and Falsehood are equally probable having the same grounds the same evidences Quis leget haec min tu istud ais Do you think to be believed in these incredible figments fit to bear a part in the stories of Vlysses unto Alcinous Yet you proceed See if the Socinian Arguments against the Trinity be not as strong as yours against the Eucharist But where did you ever read any Arguments of ours against the Eucharist Have you a dispensation to say what you please for the promotion of the Catholick Cause Are not the Arguments you intend indeed rather for the Eucharist then against it Arguments to vindicate the nature of that holy Eucharistical Ordinance and to preserve it from the manifold abuses that you and your Church do put upon it That is they are arguments against your Transubstantiation and proper sacrifice that you intend And will you now say that the Arguments of the Socinians against the Trinity the great fundamental Article of our Prosession plainly taught in the Scripture and constantly believed by the Church of all Ages are of equal force and validity with those used against your Transubstantiation and Sacrifice of the Mass things never mentioned no not once in the whole Scripture never heard of nor believed by the Church of old and
it partly in a repetition in other words of what you had before insisted on The former I shall no further endeavour to disturb your contentment in It is a common error Neque est quisquam Quem non in aliquare videre Suffenum Possis I am not your Rivall in the admiration of it and shall therefore leave you quietly in the embracements of your Darling And for the latter we have had enough of it already and so by this time I hope you think also The close only of your Discourse is considerable and therefore I shall transcribe it for your second thoughts And it is this But Sir what you say here and so often up and down your book of Papists contempt of the Scripture I beseech you will please to abstain from it for the time to come I have conversed with the Roman Catholicks of France â—â—anders and Germany I have read more of your Books both Histories Contemptative and Scholastical Divines thâ—n I believe you have ever seen or heard of I have seen the Colledges of Sacred Priests and Religious houses I have communed with all sort of people and perused their Counsells And after all this I tell you and out of my love I tell you that their respect to Scripture is real absolute and cordial even to admiration Others may talk of it but they act it and would be ready to stone that man that should diminish Holy Writ Let us not wrong the innocent The Scripture is theirs and Jesus Christ is theirs who also will plead their Cause when he sees time What you mention of your own diligence and atchievements what you have done where you have been what you have seen and discoursed I shall not trouble you about It may be as to your souls health Tutior poter as esse domi But yet for all the report that you are pleased to make of your self it is not hard to discern that you and I Nec pondera rerum Nec momenta sumus And notwithstanding your Writings it would have been very difficult for any man to have guessed at your great reading had you not satisfied us by this your own information of it It may be if you had spared some of the time which you have spent in the reading of your Catholick Books unto the study of the Scripture it had not been unto your disadvantage In the mean time there is an Hyperbole in your confidence a little too evident For it is possable that I may and true that I have seen more of your Authors in half an hour then you can read I think in an hundred years unless you intend alwayes to give no other account of your reading then you have done in your Fiat and Epistola But we are weary of this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quin tu alium quaer as quoi centones farcias But to pass by this boasting there are two parts of your Discourse the one concerning the faith the other expressing the Charity of Roman Catholicks The first contains what respect you would be thought to have for the Scripture the latter what you really have for all other Christians besides your selves As to the former you tell me that I speak of the Papists contempt of the Scripture and desire me to abstain from it for the time to come Whither I have used that expression anywhere of contempt of the Scripture well I know not But whereas I look upon you as my friend at least for the good advice I have frequently given you I have deserved that you should be so and therefore shall not deny you any thing that I can reasonably grant and whereas I cannot readily comply with you in your present request as to the alteration of my mind in reference unto the respect that Papists bear unto the Scriptures I esteem my self obliged to give you some account of the reasons why I persist in my former thoughts which I hope as is usual in such cases you will be pleased to take in friendly part For besides Sir that you back your request with nothing but some overconfident asseverations subscribed with teste meipso I have many reasons taken from the practice and Doctrine of your Church that strongly induce me to abide in my former perswasion As 1. You know that in these and the neighbouring Nations Papists have publickly burned the Scriptures and destroyed more Copies of them then ever Antiochus Epiphanes did of the Jewish Law And if you should go about to prove unto me that Protestants have no great regard to Sacred Images that have been worshipped because in these and the neighbouring Nations they brakes and burned a great number of them I should not readily know what to answer you Nor can I entertain any such confidence of your abilities as to expect from you a satisfactory answer unto my instance of the very same nature manifesting what respect Papists bear unto the Scriptures 2. You know that they have imprisoned and burned sundry persons for keeping the Scripture in their houses or some parts of them and reading them for their instruction and comfort Nor is this any great sign of respect unto them no more then it is of mens respect to treason or murder because they hang them up who are guilty of them And 3. Your Church prohibiteth the reading of them unto Lay-men unless in some special cases some few of them be licenced by you so to do and you study sweat for arguments to prove the reading of them needless and dangerous putting them as translated into the Catalogue of Books prohibited Now this is the very mark and stamp that your Church sets upon these books which she disapproves and discountenanceth as pernicious to the faithful 4. Your Councel of Trent hath decreed that your unwritten Traditions are to be received with the same faith and veneration as the Scripture constituting them to be one part of the Word of God and the Scriptures another then which nothing could be spoken more in contempt of it or in reproach unto it For I must assure you Protestants think you cannot possibly contract a greater guilt by any contempt of the Scripture then you do by reducing it into order with your unwritten Traditions 5. You have added Books not only written with an humane and fallible Spirit but farced with actual mistakes and falshoods unto the Canon of the Scripture giving just occasion unto them who receive it from you only to question the Authority of the whole And 6. You teach the Authority of the Scripture at least in respect of us which is all it hath for Authority is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and must regard some in relation unto whom it doth consist depends on the Authority of your Church the readiest way in the world to bring it into Contempt with them that know what your Church is and what it hath been And 7. You plead that it is very obscure and unintelligible of its self and that in things of the
greatest moment and of most indispensible necessity unto Salvation whereby you render it perfectly useless according to the old Rule Quod non potest intelligi debet negligi it is fit that should be neglected which cannot be understood And 8. There is a book lately written by one of your party after you have been frequently warned and told of these things entituled Fiat Lux giving countenance unto many other hard reflections upon it as hath been manifested in the Animadversions written on that Book 9. Your great Masters in their writings have spoken very contemptuously of it whereof I shall give you a few instances The Council of Trent which is properly yours determines as I told you that their Traditions are to be received and venerated pari pietatis affectu reverentia with an equal affection of piety and reverence as the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament which is a setting up of the Altar of Damascus with that of God himself in the same Temple Sess. 4. Dec. 1. And Andradius no small part of that Convention in his defence of that Decree tells us that cum Christus fragilitati memoriae Evangelio scripto succurrendum putavit it a breve compendium libris tradi voluit ut pars maxima tanquam magni precii thesaurus traditionibus intimis Ecclesiae visceribus infixis relicta fuerit As our Lord Christ thought meet to relieve the frailty of memory by the written Gospel so he would have a short compendium or abridgement committed unto books that the greatest part as a most precious treasure might be left unto Traditions fixed in the very inward bowels of the Church This is that cordial and absolute respect even unto admiration that your Catholicks bear unto the Scripture And he that doth not admire it seems to me to be very stupid It contains some small part of the mysteries of Christian Religion the great treasure of them lying in your Traditions and thereupon he concludes Canonem seu Regulam fidei exactissimam non esse Scripturam sed Ecclesiae judicium that the Canon or most exact Rule of Faith is not the Scripture but the judgement of the Church Much to the same purpose as you plead in your Fiat and Epistola Pighius another Champion of your Church Ecclesiast Hierarch Lib. 1. c. 4. after he hath given many reasons to prove the obscurity of the Scripture with its flexibility to every mans sense as you know who also hath done and referred all things to be determined by the Church concludes Si hujus Doctrinae memores fuissemus haereticos scilicet non esse informandos vel convincendos ex Scripturis meliore same loco essent res nostrae sed dum ostentandi ingenii eruditionis gratia cum Luthero in certamen discenditur Scripturarum excitatum est hoc quod proh dolor nunc videmus incendium Had we been mindful of this Doctrine that Hereticks are not to be instructed nor convinced out of the Scriptures our affairs had been in a better condition then now they are but whilest some to shew their wit and learning would needs contend with Luther out of the Scriptures the fire which we now with grief behold was kindled and stirred up And it may be you remember who it was that called the Scripture Evangelium nigrum and Theologiam atramentariam seeing he was one of the most famous champions of your Church and Cause But before we quite leave your Council of Trent we may do well to remember the advice which the Fathers of it who upon the stirs in Germany removed unto Bononia gave to the Pope Julius the third which one that was then amongst them afterwards published Denique say they in their letters to him quod inter omnia consilia quae nos hoc tempore dare possumus omnium gravissimum ad extremum reservavimus Oculi hic aperiendi sunt omnibus nervis adnitendum erit ut quam minimum Evangelii poterit praesertim vulgari lingua in iis legatur Civitatibus quae sub tua ditione potestate sunt sufficiatque tantillum illud quod in missa legi solet nec eo amplius cuiquam mortalium legere liceat Quam diu enim pauculo illo homines contenti fuerunt tam diu res tuae ex sententia successêre â—aedemq in contrarium labi caeperunt ex quo ulterius legi vulgo usurpatum est Hic ille in summa Est liber qui praeter caeteros hasce nobis tempestates ac turbines conciliavit quibus prope abreptisumus Et sane siquis illum diligenter expendat deinde quae in nostris fieri ecclestis consueverunt singula ordine contempletur videbis plurimum inter se dissidere hanc doctrinam nostram ab illa prorsus diversam esse ac saepe contrariam etiam Quod simul atque homines intelligant à docto scilicet aliquo adversariorum stimulati nou ante clamandi finem faciunt quam rem plane omnem divulgaverint nosque invisos omnibus reddiderint Quare occultandae pauculae illae chartulae sed abhibita quadam cautione diligentia ne ea res majores nobis turbas ac tumultus excitet Last of all that which is the most Weighty of all the advices which that at this time we shall give unto you we have reserved for the close of all Your eyes are here to be opened you are to endeavour with the utmost of your power that as little as may be of the Gospel especially in any vulgar tongue be read in those Cities which are under your government and Authority but let that little suffice them which is wont to be read in the Mass of which mind you also know who is neither let it be lawful for any man to read any more of it For as long as men were contented with that little your affairs were as prosperous as heart could desire and began immediately to decline upon the custome of reading any more of it This is in brief that book which above all others hath procured unto us those tempests and storms wherewith we are almost carryed away headlong And the Truth is if any one shall diligently consider it and then seriously ponder on all the things that are accustomed to be done in our Churches he will find them to be very different the one from the other and our Doctrine to be divers from the Doctrine thereof yea and oftentimes plainly contrary unto it Now this when men begin to understand being stirred up by some learned man or other amongst the adversaries they make no end of clamouring until they have divulged the whole matter and rendred us hateful unto all Wherefore those few sheets of Paper are to be hid but with caution and diligence least their concealment should stir us up greater troubles This is fair and open being a brief summary of that admiration of the Scriptures which so abounds in Catholick Countreys That Hermannus one of some account in your Church affirmed that the
out of his way that you speak not one word unto it yet I will say that it is a thing of that kind whereof there are frequent instances in your whole Discourse and for what reason is not very difficult for any man to conjecture CHAP. 15. Pleas of Prelate Protestants Christ the only supream and absolute Head of the Church PAg. 49. You take a view of the tenth Chapter of the Animadversions opposed unto the thirteenth and fourteenth Paragraph of your Fiat Lax wherein you pretend to set forth the various Pleas of those that are at Difference amongst us in matters of Religion These you there distribute into Independents Presbyterians and Protestants Here omitting the Consideration of the two former you apply your self unto what was spoken about Prelate Protestants as you call them You endeavour say you to disable both what I have set down to make against the Prelate Protestant and also what I have said for him I said in Fiat Lux that it made not a little against our Protestants that after the Prelate Protestancy was setled in England they were forced for their own preservation against the â—uritans to take up some of those Principles again which former Protestants had cast down for Popish as is the Authority of the visible Church efficacy of ordination difference between Clergy and Laity Here first you deny that these Principles are Popish But Sir there are some Jews even at this day who will deny any such man as Pontius Pilate to to have ever been in Jewry I have other things to do then to fill volumes with useless texts which here I might easily do out of the books both of the first Reformers and Catholick Divines and Councils What acquaintance you have with the Jews we have in part seen already and shall have occasion hereafter to examine a little further In the mean time you may be pleased to take notice that men who know what they say are not easily affrighted from it by a shew of such Mormoes as he in the Comaedian was from his own house by his servants pretence that it was haunted by Sprights when there were none in it but his own debauched companions I denyed those Opinions to be Popish and should do so still were I accused for so doing before a Roman Judge as corrupt and wicked as Pontius Pilate For I can prove them to be more Antient then any part of Popery in the sense explained in the Animadversions and admitted generally by Protestants We never esteem every thing Popish that Papists hold or believe Some things in your Profession belong unto your Christianity some things to your Popery And I am perswaded you do not think this Proposition Jesus Christ is the Son of God to be Heretical because those whom you account Hereticks do profess and believe it Prove the Principles you mention to be invented by your selves without any foundation in the Scripture or constant suffrage of the Antient Churches and you prove them to be Popish to be your own If you cannot do so though Papists profess them yet they may be Christian. This is spoken as to the Principles themselves not unto your explanation of them which in sundry particulars is Popish which were never owned by Prelate Protestants You proceed You challenge me to prove that these Principles were ever denyed by our Prelate Protestants And this you do wittily and like your self You therefore bid me prove that those principles were ever denyed by our Prelate Protestants because I say that our Prelate Protestants here in England as soon as they became such took up again those forenamed Principles which Protestants their forefathers both here in England and beyond Seas before our Prelacy was set up had still rejected When I say then that our Prelate Protestants affirmed and asserted those Principles which former Protestants denyed you bid me prove that ever our Prelate Protestants ever denyed them But whatever you can prove or cannot prove you have made it very easie for any man to prove that you have very little regard unto truth and sobriety in what you aver so that you may acquit your self from that which presseth you and which according to the rules of them you cannot stand before You tell us in the entrance of this discourse that you said that Prelate Protestants for their own preservation took up some of those Principles again which former Protestants had cast down for Popish And here expresly that you said not that they took up the Principles which themselves had cast down but only those which other before them had so dealt withall Now pray take a view of your own words whereby you express your self in this matter Chap. 3. S. 14. p. 189. ed. 2. Are they not these The Prelate Protestant to defend himself against them the Presbyterians and Independents is forced to make use of those very Principles which himself afore time not other Protestants but himself when he not others first contended against Popery destroyed So that upon him falls most heavily even like Thunder and Lightning from Heaven utterly to kill and cut him a sunder that great Oracle delivered by St. Paul If I build up again the things I not another formerly destroyed I make my self a prevaricator an Impostor a Reprobate What think you of these words do you charge the Prelate Protestant with building up what others had pulled down or what he had destroyed himself Is your Rule out of St. Paul applicable unto him upon any other account but that he himself was both the builder and destroyer Sir such miscarriages as these Protestants know to be mortal sins and if without contrition for them you have celebrated any Sacrament of your Church it cannot be avoided but that you have brought a great inconvenience on some of your Disciples Besides suppose you had spoken as you now faign your self to have done I desire to know who they are whom you intend when you say our Prelate Protestants so soon as they became such as though they were first Protestants at large and destroyed those Principles which afterwards they built up when they became Prelate Protestants seeing all men know that our Reformation was begun by Prelates themselves and such as never disclaimed the Principles by you instanced in But you tell me I do not only reject what you object against Prelate Protestants but also what you alledge in their behalf I do so indeed though I laugh not at you or it as you pretend and so must any man do who pleading for Protestancy hath not a mind openly to prevaricate For your Plea for them is such as if admitted would not only overthrow your Prelacy which you pretend to assert but also destroy your Protestancy which you will not deny but that you seek to oppose Nay it is no other but what was contradicted in the very Council of Trent by the Spanish Prelates as that which they conceived to have been an engine contrived for the Ruine
briefly mind you of the principles which you oppose in it and seek to evert by it as also of those which you intend to compass your purpose by Of the first sort are these 1. That the Lord Christ God and Man in one person is and ever continuâ—s to be the only absolute Monarchical Head of his own Church I suppose it needless for me to confirm this Principle by Testimonies of Scripture which it being a matter of pure Revelation is the only way of confirmation that it is capable of That he is the Head of his Church is so frequently averred that every one who hath but read the New Testament will assent unto it upon the bare repetition of the words with the same faith whereby he assents unto the writing its self whatever it be and we shall afterwards see that the notion of an Head is absolutely exclusive of competition in the matter denoted by it An Head properly is singly and absolutely so and therefore the substitution of another head unto the Châ—rch in the room of Christ or with him is perfectly exclusive of him from being so 2. That Christ as God-man in his whole person was never visible to the fleshly eyes of men and whereas as such he was Head of the Church as the Head of the Church he was never absolutely visible His humane nature was seen of old which was but something of him as he was and is the Head of the Church otherwise then by faith no man hath seen him at any time and it changeth the condition of the Church to suppose that now it hath a Head who being a meer man is in his whole person visible so far as a man may be seen 3. That the visibility of the Church consisteth in its publick profession of the Truth and not in its being objected to the bodily eyes of men It is a thing that faith may believe it is a thing that Reason may take notice of consider and comprehend the eyes of the body being of no use in this matter When a Church professeth the Truth it is the ground and pillar of it a City on a hill that is visible though no man see it yea though no man observe or contemplate on any thing about it It s own Profession not other mens observation constitutes it visible Nor is there any thing more required to a Churches visibility but its Profession of the Truth unto which all the outward advantages which it hath or may have of appearing conspicuously or gloriously to the consideration of men are purely accidental which may be separated from it without any prejudice unto its visibility 4. That the sameness of the Church in all Ages doth not depend on its sameness in respect of degrees of visibility That the Church be the same that it was is required that it profess the same Truth it did whereby it becomes absolutely visible but the degrees of this visibility as to conspicuousness and notoriety depending on things accidental unto the being and consequently visibility of Church do no way affect as unto any change Now from hence it follows 1. That the presence or absence of the Humane nature of Christ with or from his Church on earth doth not belong unto the visibility of it so that the absence of it doth no way inferr a necessity of substituting another visible head in his stead Nor was the presence of his humane Nature with his Church any way necessary to the visibility of it his conversation on the earth being wholly for other ends and purposes 2. That the presence or absence of the humane nature of Christ not varying his headship which under both considerations is still the same the supposition of another Head is perfectly destructive of the whole Headship of Christ there being no vacancy possible to be imagined for that supply but by the removal of Christ out of his place For he being the Head of his Church as God and man in his whole person invisible and the visibility of the Church consisting solely in its own profession of the Truth the absence of his humane nature from the earth neither changeth his own Headship nor prejudiceth the Churches visibility so that either the one or the other of them should induce a necessity of the supply of another Head Consider now what it is that you oppose unto these things You tell us â— That Christ was the Head of the Church in his humane nature delegated by and under Gâ—d to that purpâ—se You mean he was so absolutely and as man exclusively to his divine nature This your whole Discourse with the Inferences that you draw from this supposition abundantly manifests If you can make this good you may conclude what you please I know no man that hath any great cause to oppose himself unto you for you have taken away the very foundation of the being and 〈◊〉 of the Church in your supposition 2. You inform us That Christ by his Ascension into heaven ceased to be that Head that he was so that of necessity another must be substituted in his place and room and this we must think to be the Pope He is I confess absent from his Church here on earth as to his bodily appearance amongst us which as it was not necessary as to his Headship so he promised to supply the inconvenience which 〈◊〉 Disciples apprehended would ensue thereupon so that they should have great cause to rejoyce at it as that wherein their great advantage would lye John 16. 7. That this should be by giving us a Pope at Rome in his stead he hath no way intimated And unto those who know what your Pope is and what he hath done in the world you will hardly make it evident that the great advantage which the Lord Christ promised unto his Disciples upon his absence is made good unto them by his Supervisorship 3. You would have the visibility of the Church depend on the visibility of its Head as also its sameness in all ages And no one you are secure who is now visible pretends to be the Head of the Church but the Pope alone and therefore of necessity he it must be But Sir if the Lord Jesus Christ had had no other nature then that wherein he was visible to the eyes of men he could never have been a meet Head for a Church dispersed throughout the whole world nor have been able to discharge the Duty annexed by God unto that office And if so I hope you will not take it amiss if on that supposition I deem your Pope of whom millions of Christians know nothing but by uncertain rumors nor he of then to be very unmeet for the discharge of it And for the visibility of the Church I have before declared wherein it doth consist Upon the whole matter you do not only come short of proving the Indentity and Oneness of the Church to depend upon one visible Bishop as its Monarchical Head but also the
over the flocks but Ministers of their faith By these are the flocks of Christ governed as by shepherds appointed by him the great Bishop and Shepherd of their souls according to the Rules by him prescribed for the rule of the one and obedience of the other But if by governed by another man you mean absolutely supreamly at his will and pleasure then we deny that any Disciple of Christ is in the things of God so to be governed by any man and affirm that to assert it is to cast down Jesus Christ from his Throne But you say if he be not immediate head unto all but Ministers head the people and Christ heads the Ministers this in effect is nothing but to make every Minister a Bishop Why do you not plainly say what it is more then manifest you would have All this while you heed no more the Laws of the Land then constitutions of the Gospel Answ. I have told you how Christ is the immediate Head unto all and yet how he hath appointed others to preside in his Churches under him and that this should infer an equality in all that are by him appointed to that work is most senseless to imagine nor did I in the least intimate any such thing but only that therefore there was no need of any one supream head of the whole Catholick Church nor any place or room left for such an one without the deposition of Christ himself Because the King is the only supream Head of all his people doth it therefore follow that if he appoint Constables to rule in every parish with that allotment of power which by his Laws he gives unto them and Justices of Peace to rule over them in an whole County that therefore every Constable in effect is a Justice of Peace or that there is a sameness in their office Christ is the head of every man that is in the Church be he Bishop or Minister or private man and when the Ministers are said to head the people or the Bishops to head them the expression is improper an inferiour Ministerial subordinate rule being expressed by the name of that which is supream and absolute or they head them not absolutely but in some respect only as every one of them dischargeth the Authority over and towards them wherewith he is intrusted This assertion of Christs sole absolute Headship and denial of any Monarchical state in the Church Catholick but what ariseth from thence doth not as every child may see concern the difference that is about the superiority of Bishops to Ministers or Presbyters For notwithstanding this there are degrees in the Ministry of the Church and several orders of men are engaged therein and whatever there are there might have been more had it seemed to our good Lord Christ to appoint them And whatever order of men may be supposed to be instituted by him in his Church he must be supposed to be the Head of them all and they are all to serve him in the Duties and Offices that they have to discharge towards the Church and one another This headship of Christ is the thing that you are to oppose and its exclusiveness to the substitution of an absolute Head over the whole Catholick Church in his place because of his bodily absence from the earth But this you cast out of sight and instead thereof fall upon the equality of Bishops and Ministers which no way ensues thereon Both Bishops and Presbyters agreeing well enough in the Truth we assert and plead for This you say is contrary to the Gospel and the Law of the Land What is I pray that Christ is the only absolute Head of the Catholick Church No but that Bishops and Ministers are in effect all one But what is that to your purpose will it advantage your Cause what way ever that problem be determined Was any occasion offered you to discourse upon that Question Nay you perceive well enough your self that this is nothing at all to your design and therefore in your following discourse you double and sophisticate making it evident that either you understand not your self what you say or that you would not have others understand you or that you confound all things with a design to deceive for when you come to speak of the Gospel you attempt to prove the appointment of one supream Pastor to the whole Catholick Church and by the Law of the Land the Superiority of Bishops over Ministers as though these things were the same or had any relation one to another whereas we have shewed the former in your sense to be destuctive to the latter Truth never put any man upon such subter fuges and I hope the difficulties that you find your self perplexed withall may direct you at length to find that there is a deceit in your right hand But let us hear your own words As for the Gospel the Lord who had been visible Governour and Pastor of his flock on earth when he was now to depart hence as all the Apostles expected one to be chosen to succeed him in his care so did he notwithstanding his own invisible presence and providence over his flock publickly appoint one And when he taught them that he who was greatest among them should be as the least he did not deny but suppose one greater and taught in one and the same breath both that he was over them and for what he was over them namely to feed not to tyrannize not to domineer and hurt but to direct comfort and conduct his flock in all humility and tenderness as a servant of all their spiritual necessities and if a Bishâ—p be otherwise affected it is the fault of his Person not his place And what is it that you would prove hereby is it that Bishops are above Ministers which in the words immediately foregoing you asserted and in those next ensuing confirm from the Law of the Land is there any tendency in your Discourse towards any such purpose Nay do not your self know that what you seek to insinuate namely the instiâ—ution of one supream Pastor of the whole Catholick Church one of the Apostles to be above and ruler over all the rest of the Apostles and the whole Church besides is perfectly destructive of the Hierarchy of Bishops in England as established by Law and also at once casting down the main if not only foundation that they plead for their station and order from the Gospel For all Prelate Protestants as you call them assert an equality in all the Apostles and a superiority in them to the 70. Disciples whence by a parity of reason they conclude unto he superiority of Bishops over Ministers to be continued in the Church And are you not a fair Advocate for your Cause and well meet for the reproving of others for not consenting unto them But waving that which you little câ—re for and are not at all concerned in let us see how you prove that which we know you
greatly desire to give some countenance unto that is an universal visible Pastor over the whole Catholick Church in the place and room of Christ himself First You tell us that the Apostles expected one to be chosen to succeed Christ in his care But to have one succeed another in his care infers that that other â—â—â—sâ—â— o take and exercise the Care which formerly he haâ— and exercised which in this case is highly blasphemous once to imagine I wish you would â—ake more Care of what you say in things of this nature aâ—d not suffer the impetuous 〈…〉 your interest to cast you upon expressions so 〈◊〉 to thâ— honour oâ— Christ and safety of his Churâ—â— And how do you prove that the Apostles had any such expectations as that which you mention Our Saviour gave them equal commission to teach all Nations told them that as his father had sent him so he sent them that he had chosen them twelve but that one of them was a Devil never that one of them should be Pope Their Institution Instruction Priviledges Charge Calling were all equal How then should they come to have this expectation that one of them should be chosen to succeed Christ in his Care when they were all chosen to serve under him in the continuance of his care towards his Church That which you obscurely intimate from whence this expectation of yours might arise is the contest that was amongst them aâ—â—â—t preheminence Luk. 22. 24. There was a strife â—mongst them which of them should be the greatest 〈◊〉 you suppose was upon their perswasion that one should be chosen in particular to succeed the Lord Christ in his Care whereupon they fell into difference about the place But 1. Is it not somewhat strange unto your self how they should contest about a succession unto Christ in his absence who had not once thought that he would ever be absent from them nor could bear the mention of it without great sorrow of heart when afterwards he began to acquaint them with it 2. How should they come in your apprehension to quarrel about that which as you suppose and contend was somewhile before determined For this contest of yours was somewhile after the promise of the Keys to Peter and the saying of Christ that he would build his Church on the Rock Were the Apostles think you as stupid as Protestants that they could not see the Supremacy of Peter in those passages but must yet fall at variance who should be Pope 3. How doth it appear that this strife of theirs who should be greatest did not arise from their apprehension of an earthly Kingdom a hope whereof according to the then current perswasion of the Judaical Church to be erected by their master whom they believed in as the true Messiah they were not delivered from until after his Resurrection when they were filled with the Spirit of the New Testament Act. 1. Certainly from that root sprang the ambitious desire of the Sons of Zebedee after preheminence in his Kingdom and the designing of the rest of them in this place from the manner of its management by strife seems to have had no better a spring 4. The stop put by our Lord Jesus unto the strife that was amongst them makes it manifest that it arose from no such expectation as you imagine or that at least if it did yet your expectation was irregular vain and groundless For 1. He tells them that there should be no such greatness in his Church as that which they contended about being like to the Soveraignty exercised by and in the Nations of the earth from which he that can shew a difference in your Papal Rule erit mihi magnus Apollo 2. He tells them that his Father had equally provided a Kingdom that is heavenly and eternal for all them that believed which was the only greatness that they ought to look or enquire after 3. That as to their Priviledge in his Kingdom it should be equal unto them all for they should all fit on Thrones judging the twelves tribes of Israel so ascribing equal power Authority and dignity unto them all which utterly overthrows the figment of the supremacy of any one of them over the rest Luk. 22. 30. Matth. 19. 28. And 4. Yet further to prevent any such conceit as that which you suppose them to have had concerning the prelation of any one of them he tells them that one was their Master even Christ and that all they were brethren Mat. 23. 8. so giving them to understand that he had designed them to be perfectly every way equal among themselves So ill have you layed the foundation of your Plea as that it guides us to a full determination of the contrary to your pretence and that given by our Saviour himself with many reasons perswading his Disciples of the equity of it and unto an acquiescency in it And what you add that he presently appointed one to the preheminence you imagine is altogether inconsistent with what you would conclude from the striâ—e about it For the appointment you fancy preceded this contention and had it been real and to any such purpose would certainly have prevented it Thus you do neither prove from the Gospel what you pretend unto namely that Bishops are above Ministers so well do you plead your Cause nor what you intend namely that the Pope is appointed over them all Only you wisely add a caution about what a Bishop ought to be and do de jure and what any one of them may â—o or be de facto because it is impossible for any â—an to find the least difference between the domination which our Saviour expresly condemns and that which your Pope doth exercise Although I know not whither you would think meet to have him devested of that Authority on the pretence whereof he so domineers in the world Finding your self destitute of any countenance from the Gospel you proceed to the Laws of the Land To what purpose to prove that Christ appointed one amongst his Apostles to preside with plenitude of Power over all the rest of them and consequently over the whole Catholick Church succeeding him in his care certainly you will find little countenance in our Laws to this purpose But let us hear your own words again As for the Laws of the Land say you it is there most strongly decreed by the consent and Authority of the whole Kingdom not only that Bishops are our Ministers but that the Kings Majesty is head of the Bishops also in the line of Hierarchy from whose hand they receive both their places and jurisdiction This was established not only by one but by several Parliament Acts both in the reign of King Edward and Queen Elizabeth What will hence follow that there is one universal Bishop appointed to succeed Christ in his Care over the Church Catholick the thing you attempted to prove in the words immediately foregoing Do not the same Laws which assert
his Successors may be added 3. Protestants reach unanimously that it is incumbent on Kings to find out receive embrace and promote the Truth of the Gospel and the Worship of God appointed therein confirming protecting and defending of it by their Regal Power and Authority as also that in their so doing they are to use the Liberty of their own judgements informed by the wayes that God hath appointed for that end independently on the dictates determinations and orders of any other Person or Persons in the world unto whose Authority they should be obnoxious Heathen Kings made Laws for God Dan. 3. chap. 6. Jona 3. And the great thing that we find any of the Good Kings of Judah commended for is that they commanded the worship of God to be observed and performed according unto his own appointment For this end were they then bound to write out a Copy of the Law with their own hands Deut. 14. 18. and to study in it continually To this purpose were they warned charged exhorted and excited by the Prophets that is that they should serve God as Kings And to this purpose are there innumerable Laws of the best Christian Kings and Emperours still extant in the world In these things consists that Supremacy or Headship of Kings which Protestants unanimously ascribe unto them especially those in England to his Royal Majesty And from hence you may see the frivolousness of sundry things you object unto them As first of the Scheme or Series of Ecclesiastical Power which you ascribe to Prelate Protestants and the Laws of the Land from which you say the Presbyterians dissent which you thus express By the Laws of our Land our Series of Government Ecclesiastical stands thus God Christ King Bishop Ministers People The Presbyterian Predicament is thus God Christ Minister People So that the Ministers head in the Presbyterian Predicament toucheth Christs feet immediately and nothing intervenes You Pretend indeed that hereby you do exalt Christ but this is a meer cheat as all men may see with their eyes For Christ is but where he was but the Minister indeed is exalted being now set in the Kings place one degree higher then the Bishops who by Law is under King and Bishops too If I mistake not in my guess you greatly pleased your self with your Scheme wherein you pretend to make forsooth an ocular Demonstration of what you undertook to prove whereas indeed it is as trivial a fancy as a man can ordinarily meet withal For 1. Neither the Law nor Prelates nor Presbyterians ascribe any place at all unto the Kings Majesty in the Series of Spiritual Order he is neither Bishop nor Minister nor Deacon or any way authorized by Christ to convey or communicate power meerly spiritual unto any others No such thing is claimed by our Kings or declared in Law or asserted by Protestants of any sort But in the series of exteriour Government both Prelate Protestants and Presbyterians assign a Supremacy over all Persons in his Dominions and that in all Causes that are inquirable and determinable by or in any Court exercising Jurisdiction and Authority unto his Majesty All sorts assign unto him the Supreme place under Christ in external Government and Jurisdiction None assign him any place in Spiritual Order and meerly Spiritual Power Secondly If you place Bishops on the Series of exterior Government as appointed by the King and confirmed by the Law of the Land there is yet no difference with respect unto them 3. The Question then is solely about the Series of Spiritual order and thereabout it is confessed there are various apprehensions of Protestants which is all you prove and so do magno conatu nugas agere who knows it not I wish there were any need to prove it But Sir this difference about the Superiority of Bishops to Presbyters or their equality or Identity was agitated in the Church many and many a hundred year before you or I were born and will be so probably when we are both dead and forgotten So that what it makes in this dispute is very hard for a sober man to conjecture 4. Who they are that pretend to exalt Christ by a meer asserting Ministers not to be by his institution subject to Bishops which you call a cheat I know not nor shall be their advocate they exalt Christ who love him and keep his Commandments and no other 2. You may also as easily discern the frivolousness of your exclamation against Protestants for not giving up their differences in Religion to the Vmpirage of Kings upon the assignment of that Supremacy unto them which hath been declared When we make the King such an Head of the Catholick Church as you make the Pope we shall seek unto him as the fountain of our faith as you pretend to do unto the Pope For the present we give that honour to none but Christ himself and for what we assign in profession unto the King we answer it wholly in our practical submission Protestants never thought nor said that any King was appointed by Christ to be supreme infallible Proposer of all things to be believed and done in the Worship of God no King ever assumed that power unto himself It is Jesus Christ alone who is the Supreme and absolute Lawgiver of his Church the Author and finisher of our Faith and it is the honour of Kings to serve him in the promotion of his Interest by the exercise of that Authority and duty which we have before declared What unto the dethroning and dishonour as much as in you lyeth of Christ himself and of Kings also you assign unto the Pope in making him the Supreme head and fountain of their faith hath been already considered This is the substance of what you except against Protestants either as to Opinion or Practice in this matter of deference unto Kingly Authority in things Ecclesiastical What is the sense of your Church which you prefer unto your sentiments herein I shall after I have a little examined your present pretensions manifest unto you seeing you will have it so from those who are full well able to inform us of it Fas mihi Pontificum sacrata resolvere jura atque omnia ferre sub auras â—Siqua tegunt tenear Romaenec ligebus ullis For your own part you have expressed you seâ—f in this matter so loosely generally and ambiguously that it is very hard for any man to collect from your words what it is that you assert or what you deny I shall endeavour to draw out your sense by a few enâ—quiries As 1. Do you think the King hath any An â—ority vested in him as King in Ecclesiastical affairs and over Ecclesiastical Persons You tell us That Catholicks observe the King in all things as well Eeclesiastick as Civil pag. 59. that in the line of Corporal power and Authority the King is immediately under God p. 61. with other words to the same purpose if they are to any purpose at all
that they would like it under a new dress which the old name might have startled them from the Consideration of But Mass or Messach let it be as you please we shall now consider what it is that you offer afresh concerning it and hear you speak out your own words Thus you say p. 81. Having laughed at my admiration of Catholick Service you carp at me for saying that the Christians were never called together to hear a Sermon to convince me you bring some places out of St. Pauls Epistles and the Acts which commend the Ministry of the Word This indeed is your usual way of refuting my Speeches You flourish copiously in that which is not at all against me and never apply it to my words least it should appear as it is impertinent I deny not that Converts were further instructed or that the preaching of Gods Word is good and usefull but that which I say is that Primitive Christians were never called together for that end as the great work of their Christianity This I have clearly proved Well Sir without retorsion which just indignation against this unhandsome management of a desperate Cause is ready to suggest be pleased to take a little view of your own words once more pag. 279. you tell us that the Apostles and Apostolical Christians placed their Religion not in hearing or making Sermons FOR THEY HAD NONE but in attending to their Christian Lyturgie and the Sermons mentioned in the Acts were made to the Jews and Pagans for their Conversion not to any Christians at all Could I now take any other course to confute these false and impious Assertions then what I did in the Animadversions I proved unto you that Sermons were made unto Christians by the Apostles for their edification that order is given by them for the instant preaching of the Word in and unto the Churches unto the end of the world and that those are by them signally commended who laboured in that work and what can be spoken more directly to the confutation of your Assertion You would now shrowd your self under the ambiguity of that expression the great work of their Christianity which yet you make no use of in your Fiat The words there from which you would get countenance unto your present evasion are these Nowhere was ever Sermon made to formal Christians either by St. Peter or Paul or any other as the work of their Religion that they came together for nor did the Christians ever dream of serving God after their Conversion by any such means but ONLY by the Eucharist or Liturgy Here is somewhat of the work of their Religion which they came together for nothing of the great work of their Christianity Now that preaching was a work of their Religion that they came together for though not the only work of it noâ— only end for which they so convened which no man ever dreamed that it was and that the Primitive Christians did by and in that work serve God hath been proved unto you from the Scripture And all Antiquity with the whole story of the Church gives attestation to the same Truth Sir it were far more honourable for you to renounce a false and scandalous Assertion when you are convinced that such it is then to seek to palliate it and to secure your self by such unhansome evasions Preaching of the word unto believers is an Ordinance of Christ and that of indispensible necessity unto their edification or growth in Grace and knowledge which he requireth of them In the practice of this ordinance were the Apostles themselves sedulous and commanded others so to be So were they in the Primitive following times as you may learn from the account given us of Church meetings by Justin Martyr and Tertullian in their Apologies and all that have transmitted any thing unto Posterity concerning their Assemblies For this end to hear the word preached Christians came together not only or solely or exclusively to the administration of other Ordinances but as to a part of that worship which God required at their hands and wherein no small of their spiritual advantage was enwrapped To deny this as you do in your Fiat is to deny that the Sun shines at noon day and to endeavour to dig up the very roots of Pâ—ety Knowledge and all Christianity to what ends and purposes and for the enthroning of what other thing in your room let all indifferent men judge And I shall take leave to say that to my best observation I never met with an Assertion in any Author of what Religion so ever more remote from truth sobriety and modesty then that of yours in your Fiat pag. 275. Nor did the Primitive Christians for 300. years ever hear a Sermon made unto them upon a Text but meerly flocked together at their Priests appointment unto their Messachs This I say is so loudly and notoriously untrue and so known to be so to all that have ever looked into the stories of those times that I am amazed at your confidence in the publishing of it It may be you will hope to shelter your self under the ambiguity of that expression made unto them upon a text Supposing that an instance cannot be given of that mode of preaching wherein some â—ertain Text is read at the entrance of a Sermon and principally insisted upon But this Fig leaf will not cover you from the just Censure of knowing men For 1. Their following adversative but meerly is perfectly exclusive of all preaching be it of what Mode it will be 2. The reading of one certain Text before Preaching is not necessary unto it but all preaching is and ever was upon some Text or Texts that is it consisted in the explication and application of the word of God that is some part of portion of it 3. Whereas it is certain that our Saviour himself preached on a Text Luk. 4. 17 18 19 20 21. as also did his Apostles Act. 8. 35. and the Fathers of the following Ages it is sufficiently evident that that was also the constant mode of preaching in the first 300. years as may be made good in the instance of Origen and sundry others You go on and except against me for saying that we hear nothing of your Sacrifice of the Mass in the Scripture and say you will neither hear nor see say you the passion of our Lord is our Christian Sacrifice do not I say sâ— too but that this incruent Sacrifice was instituted by the same Lord before his death to figure out daily before our eyes that passion of his which was then approaching in commemoration of his death so long as the world should last I must desire you to stay here a little This Sacrifice you make the main of Christian Religion Protestants for the want of it you esteem to have no Religion at all We must therefore consider what it is that you intend by it for I suppose you would not have us accept of we know not
as though it could be seen or expressed by colours but for some other end as it seems for their instruction which indeed is honest and fair dealing for they plainly tell them that by their pictures they teach them lyes the language of the Picture being that God may be so pictured whereby all your pictures and Images of God the Father as an old man of the Trinity as one person with three faces and the Holy Ghost as a Dove are approved 2. Religious Worship of Images is confirmed due honour and veneration or worship is to be given unto them saith the Council Now it is not mutual complement they are discoursing about There is no such intercourse between their Images and them ordinarily though sometimes civil salutations have passed between them Nor is it any token of Civil Subjection for Images have no eminency or authority of that kind but it is divine or religious veneration and worship which they affirm is to be assigned unto them 3. They say that due honour and veneration that is religious is to be assigned unto them but what in especial that honour and worship is they do not determine whither it be the same that is due to the sâ—mplar as some the most of your Divines think or whether it be an honour of some inferiour nature as others contend pugnant ipsi ne potesq the Synod leaves them where it found them sufficiently at variance among themselves 4. They further assert the worship that is given by them to Images to be religious or divine in that they affirm the honour done to the Image is referâ—ed unâ—â—â—he Prototype which it doth represent Now suppose this be Jesus Christ himself I suppose that they will grant that all the honour we yield to him by any way or means is divine or religious and therefore so consequently that which they would have to be given unto his Image that is a stock or stone which they fancy so to be must be so aâ—so Now Sir you may see from hence what it is that you are to speak unto and to defend or else to hold your peace in this matter And I shall yet make it a little more plain unto you Your Trent Council approves and commends the second Council of Nice as that which taught and confirmed that Doctrine and practice about Images and their Worship which your Church allows I shall therefore briefly let you know what was the judgement of that Council and what was the Doctrine and Practice confirmed in it under many dreadful Anathematisms This Second of Nice or Pseudo-Synod of the Greeks as it is called by the Council of Frankford whereunto we are sent by the Tridentine Fathers to be instructed in the due Worship of Images was assembled by the Authority of Irene the Empress a proud imperious woman her Son Constantine whose eys she afterwards put out and thrust him into a Monastery in the year 490. Tharasius was then Patriarch of Constantinoples and Hadrian the first Bishop or Pope of Rome This man most zealously or superstitiously addicted unto the worship of Images and that contrary to the judgement of most of the Western Churches as soon afterwards appeared in the Council holden at Frankford by the Authority of Charls the Great had a particular advantage both over the Empress and the Patriarch of Constantinople The Eastern Empire being then greatly weakened by its own intestine divisions and pressed on all sides by the Saracens the Empress began to entertain some hopes of relies from the French in the West whose power was then grown very great and to that end sollicited a marriage for her Son with the daughter of Charls the great and supposed that she might be helped therein by the mediation of Hadrian the Bishops of Rome having no small hand in the promotion of the attempt of Pipin and Charls the Great for the Crown of France and afterwards for the conquest of Italy and Germany And besides she was a woman her self zealously addicted to that kind of superstition which Hadrian had espoused as having in the time of Leo her Husband kept her Images in private contrary unto what she had solemnly sworn unto her Father as Credenus relates in his Annals As for Tarasius he was contrary to all Ecclesiastical Canons of a meer Lay-man at once per saltum made Patriarch of Constantinople which Hadrian upon his first hearing of greatly exclaimed against and refused to receive him into the society of Patriarchs upon his sending of his significatory Epistle This is fully declared in the Epistle of Hadrian extant in the Acts of the Council But yet afterwards bethinking himself how usefull this man might be unto his design in getting the worship of Images established in the East he declares that if he will use means to get the Heresie as he called it of the Image-opposers extirpated and their veneration established he would consent to his Election and Consecration or else not Finding how the matter was like to go with him this Lay-Patriarch undertakes the work and effectually prosecutes it in this Synod assembled at Nice by the Authority of Irence the Empress and her Son Constantine But by the way when the Council was assembled he omitted not the opportunity of improving his own interest getting himself stiled Oecumenical or Vniversal Patriarch which Anastasius Bibliothecarius in his dedication of his Translation of the Acts of this Convention unto John the eighth bewayles and ascribes it unto the flattery of the Greeks The frauds forgeries and follies of this Council and ignorance and dotage of the Fathers of it have been sufficiently by others discovered Our present concernment is only to enquire First What they taught concerning Image Worship and Secondly How they proved what they taught seeing unto them we are sent by the Tridentine Decree to be instructed in your faith in this matter First They make the having and use of Images in the Worship of God of indispensible necessity so that they anathematize and cast out of the Communion of the Church all that refuse to receive and use them according to their prescript Yea they proceed so far as in their approbation of the Confession of Theodosius the Bishop of Ammoria as to denounce an Anathema against them that do but doubt of their reception 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so he closeth his Confession which they all approve as Orthodox Anathema to them that are ambiguous or doubtful in their minds and do not confess with their hearts ex animo that Sacred Images are to be worshipped wherein they and and you with them add Schism to their Idolatry casting out of the Churches those who offend neither against the Gospel nor the determination of any General Council of old making the Rule of your Communion to consist in a sorry piece of Will-worship of your own invention which doubles the crime of your Superstition and layes an intolerable intanglement upon the Consciences of men which are perswaded from the
Scripture that they shall be accursed of God if they do receive Images into his Worship after the manner of your prescription Secondly They affirm an hundred times over that Images are religiously to be adored and worshipped that is with Divine Worship So in the Confession of the same Theodosius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so of the rest I confess consent unto receive embrace or salute I worship or adore the Image of our Lord Jesus Christ and of the Blessed Virgin and of the Apostles and Martyres The same is affirmed in the Epistle of Hadrian recited in the second Act of the Synod which they all approve and afresh curse all them that dogmatize or teach any thing against that worship of Images And Gregory the Monk no small man amongst them affirms that he hoped by his Confession of this Doctrine he believed he should obtain the forgiveness of his sins Act. 2. And John who falsly pretended himself to be delegated from the Oriental Patriarchs when he was sent only by a few ignorant Monks of Palestine prefers Images above the Word its self Act. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Image is greater then the word and again 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 honourable Images are equivalent to the Gospel And they prove the worship they intend to be divine by their wise explication of that Text The Lord thy God shalt thou worship and him only shalt thou serve 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vnto the Word Thou shalt serve only is subjoyned but not unto the word Worship so that it is lawfull to worship Images but not to serve them A wise business but it discovers sufficiently what is the worship which they ascribe unto Images even the same that is given unto God for if we may believe them other things are not excluded from Communion with God in this matter of worship and adoration Whence the Council of Frankeford doth expresly charge them that they taught that Images were to be adored with the honour due to God Act. 4. And so much weight do they lay upon this devotion that they approve the Councel given by Theodorus the Abbot unto the Monk whom the Devil vexed with temptations for worshipping the Image of Christ who told him that he had better resort to all the Stews in the Town then cease worshipping of Christ in his Image 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it seems it was uncleaness that the Devil tempted him unto as well knowing that Spiritual and Corporal fornication commonly go together Thirdly In every Session they instance in some particulars wherein the Adoration of Images which they professed did consist as in particular in religious saluting of them kissing of them bowing before them and so adoring of them To this purpose their words are very express Now all these were ever esteemed tokens pledges and expressions of Religious or Divine Worship and were the very wayes whereby the Heathen of old expressed their veneration of their Images and Idols Job intimating the way whereby they worshipped the Sun Moon and host of Heaven which crimes he denyes himself to be guilty of tells us that when he considered the Sun and the Moon his heart did not seduce him that he should put his hand to his mouth that is to salute them for this saith he had been to deny God above Job 31. 26 27. As Catullus Constiteram Solem exorientem sorte salutans Cum subito à laeva Roscius exoritur He stood saluting or worshipping the rising Sun And that also was their meaning in kissing of them or kissing their hands in saluting of them Hos. 13. 2. Let them kiss the Calves that is worship them express their religious adoration of them by that outward sign As Cicero in Ver. 4. Herculis simulacrum non solum venerari sed etiam osculari soliti fuerunt So Minutius Felix tells us that his companion Caecilius coming where the Image of Serapis was set up admovit manum ori osculum labris pressit put his hand to his mouth and kissed it as worshipping of it And for creeping kneeling or bowing it is so certain an evidence of Divine Worship that all Worship both false and Idolatrous or true is oftentimes expressed thereby So the worshipping of Baal is called bowing the knee to Baal They that bowed the knee unto him or his Image in their so doing worshipped him 1 Kings 19. 18. Rom. 11. 4. And where God promiseth to bring all Nations to the worship of himself he sayes they shall bow the knee to him Rom. 14. 11. So that these are all expressions of Religious worship and they are all accursed over and over by the Council who do not by these means express their worship of Images This is the Doctrine this is the practice which the Tridentine decree aprroves of and sends us to learn of the second Synod of Nice And this they express in most places in those very termes that were used by the Pagans in the worship of their Idols making indeed no distinction but that whereas the Pagans worshipped the images of Jupiter and Minerva and the like they in the like manner worshipped the Images of Christ and his Apostles And therefore in the Indies the Catholick Spaniards took away the Zemes or Images of their Idols that the poor natives had before and gave them the Images of Christ and his Mother in their stead This being the Doctrine of the Council it may not be amiss to consider a little how they proved and confirmed it Two things they principally insisted on 1. Testimonies of Scripture 2. Miracles Some sayings also they produced out of some antient writers of the Church but all of them either perverted or forged The Scriptures they insisted on were all of them gathered togethered in the Epistle of Pope Hadrian which was solemnly assented unto by the whole Council And they were they these God made man of the dust of the Earth after his own Image Gen. 1. Abel by his own choise offered a Sacrifice unto God of the first lings of his flock Gen. 4. Adam of his own mind called all the beasts of the field by their proper names Gen. 2. Noah of his own accord built an altar unto the Lord Gen. 8. Abraham of his own free will erected an altar to the Glory of God Gen. 11. Jacob having seen in his sleep seen the Angels of God ascending and descending by the ladder set up the stone on which his head lay for a pillar Gen. 28. And again he worshipped on the top of his staffe Gen. 29. Moses made the brasen Serpent and the Cherubims Esaiah saith in those dayes there shall be an Altar unto the Lord and it shall be for a sign and a Testimony Chap. 19. David the Psalmist sayes Confession and beauty are before him and again Lord I have loved the beauty of thine house And again Thy face Lord will I seek Psal. 26 And again The rich among the people shall bow themselves before thy face Psal. 44.
Scripture it self wherein your Images making and Image worship is as fully condemned as it is possible any superstition or Idolatry should be Your present loose discourses whereby you endeavour to possess the minds of unwary men that you do not do that which indeed you do every day and which almost all the world know that you do and which you curse others for not doing will not with considering persons redound at all unto your advantage 2. That you may the better also discern what is incumbent on you and expected from you the next time you talk of figures I shall make bold to mind you of what is the Doctrine of the chief Masters and Instructors of your Church from whence certainly we may better learn what the Doctrine and practice of it is then from one who discovers enough in what he sayes and writes to keep us from laying any great weight on his authority Now I confess that you do in this as in sundry other points of your Religion give us an egregious specimen of that consent and unity among your selves which you so frequently boast of Raphael de Torre in his Sum. Relig. Quaest. 94. Artic. â— disput 6. dub 5. gives us an account of five several opinions maintained by your Doctor in this matter of all which he rejects that only of Durand and some others affirming that images are not worshipped properly but only improperly and abusively as rash and savouring of heresie The same doth Bellarmine also and the Truth is that that opinion of Durrand Gerson and same others is plainly condemned by the Tridentine Decree as hath been already declared The Authors of the other four opinions though they differ among themselves and have several digladiations about sâ—me expressions and distinctions framed meerly in theâ—r own imaginations agree well enough that Images are religiously to be worshipped Worshipped religiously they are to be but whither per se and absolutely directly and ultimately whither with the same kind of worship wherewith that is to be worshipped which they represent they are not so fully agreed as might be desired in a matter of this importance For it is justly to be feared that whilest your Doctors are wrangling your people are committing as gross Idolatry as any of the Heathen were guilty of In the mean time the most prevalent Opinion of your Doctors is that of Thomas and his followers that images are to be adored with the same kind of worship wherewith that which they represent is to be worshipped And therefore whereas the Lord Christ is to be worshipped with Latria that which is peculiar in your judgement to God alone it follows saith he that his image is to be worshipped with the same worship also And as some of your learned men do boast that this indeed is the only approved opinion in this matter in your Church so the truth is if you will speak congruously and at any consistency with your selves it must be so For whereas you lay the foundation of all your worship of them be it of what fort it will in that figment that the honour which is done to the image redounds unto him whose image it is if the honour done to the image be of an inferior sort and kind unto that which is due unto the exemplar of it by referring that honour thereunto you debase and dishonour it by ascribing less unto it then is its due If then you intend to answer just expectation in this matter the next time you speak of figures pray consider what your Thomas teacheth as the Doctrine of your Church 3. p. q. 25. ae 3. which Azorius sayes is the constant judgement of Divines lib. 9. cap. 6. As also the exposition of the Tridentine Decree by Suarez Tom. 1. d. 54. § 4. Vasquez Costerus Bellarmine and others And 3. You may do well to consider the practice and usage of your Catholick people all the world over especially in those places where you have preserved them from being disturbed in their Devotion by the Arguments and exceptions of Protestants as also the direction that is given them for the exercise of their Devotion in that prescription of Rites and prayers which is afforded unto them Is not your bowing kneeling creeping kissing offering singing praying to the Cross and images notorious yea your placing your trust and confidence in them Yea have you omitted any of the abominations of the heathen that you have not acted over again to provoke the Lord to anger And 4. Do you think to relieve them from the guilt of Idolatry by a company of distinctions which neither they nor you understand The next time you see one of your Catholicks worshipping an image upon his knees I pray go to him and tell him that he must worship the Image with dulia or superdulia but not with latria or if with latria yet not by its self and simply but after a sort analogically and reductively or that he is about a double worship one terminated in the image and the other passing by it unto the examplar of it and you will find what thanks he will give you for your good instruction And how small a portion are these of that Mass of distinctions which you have coyned to free them from Idolatry who worship Images who all the while understand not one word of what you intend by them nor can any rational man reduce them unto any thing intelligible Sir In this matter of images you talk of coming up close to your business and I was willing to take a little pains with you to direct you in your way that having a mind to your work as you seem to pretend you may not mistake and wander away from your duty but address your self unto that which you undertake and which is expected from you You are to prove that there is a necessity of receiving the use of images in the worship of the Church so that whosoever doth not admit them is to be cast out of the Communion thereof and 2. That these Images so received are to be worshipped and adored with religious veneration if not with the very same worship that is due to the Persons represented by them yet with that which redounds unto them and that not only by the outward gesture of the body but the inward motions of the mind And when you shall have proved that the Doctrine and practice of your Church in this matter of making and worshipping Images is not contrary to the Scripture or was ever received or approved by the primitive Church for six hundred years I will promise you setting aside all other Considerations immediately to become a Papist for the present I see no cause so to do and shall therefore return to consider what you here say for the further adorning of your pictures The first thing you reflect upon is my censure of that passage in your Fiat that the sight of Images in the Church is apt to cast the minds of
in sacrificing according to the Order of that then in preaching of the Mysterie and Doctrine of this Did never any man inform you that one end of preaching the word was to regenerate the whole souls of men and to beget them anew unto God that it was also to open their eyes and to illuminate them with the saving knowledge of God in Christ that it was to beget and encrease faith in them that it was to be a means of their growth in Grace and in the knowledge of God that the Word preached is profitable for reproof Correction Dotrine and instruction in righteousness that it is appointed as the great means of working the souls of men into a likeness and conformity unto the Lord Jesus or the changing of them into his Image that it is appointed for the refreshment of the weary and consolation of the sorrowful and making wise of the simple Did you never hear that the word preached hath its effect upon the understanding and will as well as upon the Affections and upon these consequentially only unto its efficacy on them if they are not deluded Is growth in knowledge faith grace holiness conformity unto Christ Communion with God for which end the word is commanded to be preached nothing at all with you is being made wise in the mysterie of the Love of God in Christ to have an insight into and some understanding of the unsearchable treasures of his Grace and by all this the building up of souls in their most holy faith of no value with you Are you a stranger unto these things and yet think your self a meet person to perswade your Countreymen to forsake the Religion they have long professed and to follow you they know not whither Or do you know them and yet dare to thrust in your scurrility to their exclusion Plainly Sir the most charitable judgement that I can make of this Discourse of yours is that it proceeds from ignorance of the most important truths and most necessary works of the Gospel You next proceed to your plea from the Cherubims set up by Moses in the Holy place over the Ark and thence you will needs wrest an argument for your Images and the worship of them Although your Vasquez is ashamed of it and hath cashiered it long ago and that worthily as not at all belonging unto thus matter For 1. The Cherubims were not Images to which you say since the real Cherubims are not made of beaten Gold those set up by Moses must be only figures but it is of Images that we are speaking precisely and not in general of figures figures may include Types and Hieroglyphicks and any representation of things Images represent Persons and such alone are those about which we treat And if a Person be not presented by an Image it is not his Image Now I pray tell me what personal subsistences these Cherubims with their various wings and faces did represent Do you believe that they give you the shape and likeness of Angels It is true John the Bishop of Thessalonica in your Synod of Nice with the approbation of the rest of his company affirms that it was the opinion of the Catholick Church that Angels and Archangels were not altogether incorporeal and invisible but to have a slender body of ayre or fire Act. 5. But are you of the same mind or do you not rather think that the Catholick Church was belyed and abused by the Synod And if they are absolutely incorporeal and invisible how can an Image be made of them Should a man look on the Cherubims as Images of Angels would not the first thing they would teach him be a ley namely that Angels are like unto them which is the first language of any Image whatever The truth is the Mosaical Cherubims were meer Hieroglyphicks to represent the constant tender love and watchfulness of God over the Ark of his Covenant and the people that kept it and had nothing of the nature of Images in them 2. I say suppose of them what you please yet they were not set up to be adored as your Images are To which you reply It is not to my purpose or yours that they were not set up to be adored for Images in Catholick Churches are not set up for any such purpose nor do I anywhere say so No man alive hath any such thought no Trâ—â—â—tion no Council hath delivered it no practice infers it And do you think meet to talk at this rate have you no Tradition amongst you that you plead for the Adoration of Images hath no Council amongst you determined it doth not your practice speak it were you awake when you wrote these things did you never read your Tridentine Decree or the Nicene Canons commended by them is not the adoration of Images asserted an hundred times expresly in it hath no man alive such thoughts are not only Thomas and Bonaventure but Bellarmine Gregory de Valentia Baronius Suarez Vasquez Azorius with all the rest of your great Champions now utterly defeated and have not one man left to be of their judgement I would be glad to hear more of this matter Speak plainly do you renounce all adoration and worship of Images is that the Doctrine of your Church prove it so and I shall publickly acknowledge my self to have been a long time in a very great mistake But it was for this cause that I gave you a little Image of the Doctrine and practice of your Church in this matter at the entrance of our discourse foreseeing how you would prevaricaâ—e in our progress Come Sir if Image Worship be such a shameful thing that you dare not avow it deal ingenuously and acknowledge the failings of your Church in this matter and labour to bring her to amendment If you think otherwise and in truth yet like it well enough dâ—al like a man and dare to deteâ—d it at least as well as you can and more no 〈◊〉 can look for at your hands You mention somewhat of the different opinions of your Schoolmen in this matter which you sleight But Sir I tell you again that you and all your Masters are agreed that Images are to be adored and venerated that is worshipped and their disputes about that honour that rests absolutely on the Image and that which passeth on to the Prototype with the kind of the one and the other are such as neither themselves nor any other do understand You tell us indeed All Catholick Councils and practice declare such sacred figures to be expedient assistants to our thoughts in our divine meditations and prayers and that is all you know of it But if you intend Councils and practice truly Catholick or Primitive you can give no instance of allowing so much to Images as here you ascribe unto them no not one Council can you produce to that purpose for some hundreds of years but a constant current of Testimonies for the rejection of such pretend expediencies and assistances
the people from their Captivity they began to lose the purity of their own tongue and most of them understood the Syrochaldaean wherein about that time some small parts of the Scripture also were written In no long process of time a great portion of them living scattered in the Provinces of the Macedonian Empire and therefore called Hellenists used and spake the Greek tongue their own ceasing to be vulgar unto them All these both in private and in their publick Synagogne Worship made use of a Translation of the Scripture into Greek which was now become their vulgar tongue and that made either by the LXXII Elders sent from Jerusalem to Ptolomy Philadelphus or which is more probable by the Jews of Alexandria unto which City multitudes of them repaired the Nation being made free of it by its founder or it may be some while after by the Priest Onias who lead a great Colony of them into Aegypt and there built them a Temple for their Worship So did these Hebrews make use of a Translation when their own tongue ceased to be vulgar unto them The monster of serving God by rational men with a tongue whereof they understand never a word was not yet hatched The other portion of the people who either lived in Palestina or those parts of the East where the Greck tongue never prevailed into common use so soon as their language began to be mixed with the Syrochaldean and the purity of it to grow into disuse made use constantly of their Targums or Translations into that tongue Neither can it be proved but that the Jerusalem Jews understood the Hebrew well enough until the destruction of the City and Temple by Titus So that from the Church of the Jews you cannot obtain the least countenance to your practice And there lyes in Gods dealing with them a strong Argument and Testimony against it For if God himself thought meet to intrust his Oracles unto his People in that language which was common unto them all hath he not tanght us that it is his Will they should still be so continued And is there not still the same reason for it as there was at first 2. Farther the practice of the Latin Church is unavoidably against you For whereas the Scripture was no part of it written in Latin which was their vulgar tongue it it was immediately both Old Testament and New turned thereinto and therein used as in their publick Worship so by private Persons of all sorts upon the encouragement of the Rulers of it And no reason of their translation of it which they made and had from time immemorial can possibly be imagined but only the indispensible necessity which they apprehended of having the Scripture in a Language which the People did generally speak and understand 3. The case was the same in the antient Greek Church The New Testament was Originally written in their own vulgar tongue which they made use of accordingly And as for the old they constantly used a Translation of it into the same dialect So that it is impossible that we can obtain a clearer suffrage from the Antient Churches both Jews and Christians and these both of Latins and Greeks in any thing then we have against this custom of your Church But these languages you say have ceased to be vulgar for some thousand years to your knowleage Bona verba You know much I perceive yet not so much but that it is possible you may sometimes fail in your Chronological faculty Pray how many thousand years is it think you since Christs birth now this year 1663. or since the ruine of the Greek or Latin Empire and therein the Corruption of theiâ— Languages I believe you will not find it above three or four thousand at the most upon your next Calculation though I can assure you an ingenuous Person told me he thought from the manner of your speaking you might guess at some nine or ten What then Was the Bible say you put into other vulgar tongues when they ceased to be vulgar Yes by some they were Hierom translated it into the Dalmatian tongue Vlphilus into the Gotish Beda a great part of it into the Saxon and the like no doubt was done by others The Eastern Countreys also to whom the Greek was not so well known had Translations of their own from the very beginning of their Christianity And for the rest shall the wretched negligence of men in times of confusion and ignorance such as those were wherein the Greek and Latin tongues ceased to be vulgar prescribe a Rule and Law unto us of practice in the worship of God contrary to his own direction the nature of the thing its self and the example of all the Churches of Christ for five hundred years For besides that in the Empire it was alwayes used and read in the vulgar tongues those Nations that knew not the two great Languages that were commonly spoken therein from the time that they received the Christian faith took care to have the Scriptures translated into their Own mother tongue So Chrysostom tells us that the Gospel of John wherein occasionally he especially instanceth was in his dayes translated into the Syrian Egyptian Indian Persian and Ethiopian Languages Hom. 1. in John But you say Did the Church either of the Hebrews or Christians Greek or Latin ever deliver it transtlated to the generality of the People or use it in their Ser vice or command it so to be done as a thing of General concernment so far is it from that that they would never permit it But you do not sufficiently consider what you say The Hebrew Church had no need so to do God gave the Scripture unto it in their own mother tongue and that only And they had no reason to translate it out of their knowledge and understanding The Greek Church had the New Testament in the same manner and the Old they translated or delivered it so translated by others unto the generality of the people and used it in their Service The Latin Church did so also The Scriptures both of the Old and New Testament also being originally written in Languages unknown vulgarly unto them they had them translated into their own common tongue for the generality of the People and used that Translation in their Publick Service The same was the practice of the Syrians and all other Nations of old that had a language in common use peculiar to themselves All your Plea ariseth from the practice of some who through ignorance or negligence provided not for the good and necessity of the Churches of Christ when through the changes and confusions that happened in the world the Greek and Latin tongues ceased to be vulgar which how many thousand years ago it was you may calculate at your next leisure This is that which in them we blame and in you much more because you will follow them after you have been so frequently admonished of your miscarriage therein for