Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	ordination_n	power_n	presbyter_n	3,665	5	10.0489	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A95963	The authours, nature, and danger of hæresie. Laid open in a sermon preached before the Honorable House of Commons at Margarets Westminster, upon Wednesday the tenth of March, 1646. being set apart as a solemne day of publike humiliation to seeke Gods assistance for the suppressing and preventing of the growth and spreading of errours, heresies, and blasphemies. / By Richard Vines. Printed by order of the House of Commons.	Vines, Richard, 1600?-1656.	1647 (1647)	Wing V545; Thomason E378_29; ESTC R3304	47,605	81

3. they are laid together by a very learned hand the result and summe will be this that election had the force only of a nomination presentation postulation or consent so as a Minister could not bee obtruded invitae ecclesiae upon a Church whether it would or no if they were able to put in a just exception against him for which end the person to be ordained was first to be proclaimed or as I may say asked in c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Concil Chalced. can 6. the Church for the very reason of Cyprians d Cyprian Ep. 68. E●it Pa●n speech that the people principally have power to chuse the worthy or refuse the unworthy is rendred in the same Epistle that they do fully know the life conversation of every man And therefore it is e Diatrib cap. 11. injudiciously spoken that ordination necessarily follows election for an irrational or meer arbitrary dissent when no just exception could be put in bar against a man could no more hinder a mans ordination then such a peevishnesse now a days can hinder the marriage of one whose name is publisht in the congregation Ab ordinatoribus plebs docenda non sequenda saith Caelestinus The cloze of this point might well have beene an Apology for speaking so much of it in this place had not the Text led me to say something and the necessity of the times together with the present occasion constrained me to this prolixity For the office of the Ministery and the power thereunto belonging are very much undervalued and laid very low by many who differing among themselves in principles doe as in a common interest joyn together to cry downe and degrade them In order to a two-fold liberty The one is the liberty of prophesying or preaching as any man is able to set up the trade in opposition to which they conceive the Ministers do stand for their own livings and power sake The other is the liberty of their lusts and ways of loosenesse and these are such upon whom the feare of the Ministery is fallen whose Spirit cannot bear too free reproofe nor their courses a too close observation And hence it is that some of them having learning doe set their wits on worke to rout this office and the power thereof by bafling the evidences of the word and endeavouring to dispute the Scripture out of doores which though God hath not pleased to deliver Systematically in a way of absolute precept or demonstrative clearnesse in every particular yet ought to be regarded in the hints and consequences and implications which afford foot-hold to a good conscience and not to be out-wrangled for our ends and lusts sake as being the becke of that great God who is able to becken us all into nothing others that calculate by the Ephemerides of policy doe discover or imagine future inconveniences which may arise from the indiscretion passion weakenesse of the Ministers and if they will but goe on to play that Cannon a little further they shall find it will batter and overthrow all Magistracy or any government that is managed by men others whose tongues are sharper then their arguments fall foule upon the ministry and poure treble contempt upon it in lieu of double honour never was ministry more blessed and witnessed unto from heaven by the successe and fruitfullnesse of it in bringing in and bringing up a people unto God though some of their chickens are caught and carried away by kites or have forsaken them as duckes forsake the hen that hatched them never more contemned That which the f Collat. Carthag 3. Donatist objected sometime to Austin is now rife againe tu quis es Filius es Ceciliani an non who ordained you you are the brat of Cecilian are you not whom they pretended to be a traditor or to have given up the holy Scripture to the fire so they say to the Ministers whose sons are you is not your pedigree by lineall descent from Antichrist is not he the top of your kin he that hath but halfe an eye may see the reason why the Wolves would have the Sheep to quitt their dogs The ministry if encouraged and supported to doe their duty will be next under the Parliament who we hope will doe theirs the greatest bulwarke or banke against the inundation of errour haeresy and blasphemy whose increase is the occasion of this humiliation It is the lot of the Ministers of the reformed Churches to be grund betweene two Mil-stones in the first reformation the popish Champions fell pell-mell upon the calling of the a Non missi non vocati non consecrati Bristow motiu Ministers of the reformed Churches pretending it to be null ac proinde nulla ecclesia and consequently saith b Non ab episcopis ordinati ac proinde nulla ecclesia Greg de Valentia Tom. 4. disput 9. quest 3. punct 2. in fine Gregory de Valentia the Churches no Churches because they were not ordained by Bishops The same conclusion is now undertaken That the present Ministers in this Church are not lawfull Ministers upon a medium quite contrary that is because they were ordained by Bishops nor are those who are ordained by Presbyters in much better account with the objectours for they are in the same line of pedigree being but once more removed from the stocke great-grandchildren to the Pope The cauills of the Papists have been long agoe laid to sleepe by the answers of c Mornay of the Church chap. 11. Sadeel de legitim vocat Minister reform eccle 〈◊〉 Minist Anglicano learned men who have distinguisht betweene the corruptions in the persons ordaining or in the fieri of ordination and the substance and validity of ordination in facto esse and the very same answers which were made for the first reformers and the Ministers ordained by them are of as full force for the Ministers now in being with us and the Ministers ordained by them nor can our Ministery fall by this argument now used against us without the fall of all ministery in the Churches of Christ in all times and places where Bishops had a hand in ordination and if the Scripture doe settle the power of ordination in a Presbytery or in the Elders of the Church it can never be made good that a Bishops hand who is also a presbyter being joyned with others can anull the ordination as neither is Baptisme a nullity because administred by a Bishop and haply with some corrupt ceremony used in the administration thereof I proceed to the second point which I will touch but breifly and reserve the use of both and of that which followes untill the close of all These false teachers are they that bring in damnable Heresies Doctrine 2 Stuprant veritatem adulterio haeretico Tertull. de praescript They defloure the truth by haereticall adultery not onely those that teach without commission but such as have a calling to teach doe by doctrines

can no more referre to the people then c Diatrib p. 6. page 10. he that affirmes that it may can prove Luke to bee an Apostle as he stiles him I deny not that Cheirotonia in the d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Zonar in Can. 1. original and first rise of the word signifies a giving vote or suffrage by stretching forth the hand or an election manifested by that signe but the use of words not the Etymology must rule their interpretation and it is past all question that the Greeke Heathen Authours doe use this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 generally to e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hes●ch constitute appoint ordaine as is observed by Hesychius as they doe also f So also in Scripture Acts 1. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to reckon or give sentence though there be no use of counters or little stones and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee chosen to a place or to obtaine a possession though there be no use of any Lot therein accordingly to which a man may bee said pedibus ire in sententiam though he have no feet to goe upon but because we would not rest in generals let us examin what was the act of Paul Barnabas in this place for it is plaine that they put g Ephes 1. 11. forth some particular act when ' its said they ordained for them or unto them Elders did they ordaine by imposition of hands as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies in the Greeke Fathers and counsells who may be thought to understand the language It is not unlikely that those very men that had been sent forth upon this expedition by imposition of hands fasting prayer should in the like manner ordaine Elders for so the very te●● in hand couples together ordaining of Elders in every Church praying with fastings or did they elect Elders for them as h Grotius in locum Grotius seemes to interpret it but those that contend for that sense of the word to signify election will not easily disgest the interpretation and the truth is They that argue the peoples election of Ministers from the election of the seven Acts. 6. which the Apostles permitted to the people there cannot easily grant that Paul and Barnabas did assume it to themselves here because it gives away the question namely election by the people or did Paul and Barnabas joyne with the Disciples in election If it had been said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it had been something to the purpose but it is not said they chose with them but they ordained for them Elders in every Church And for that which Grotius saith Credibile est c. I'ts to be thought that the consent of the people went along also the reason that he gives namely because in a lesser matter their consent was sometime taken in quite overthrowes that which is contended for ex vt verbi out of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used in the text and we know that where the Apostles Elders and Brethren concurred in an act they are all named Acts. 15. 23. which as here it is not said so it cannot hence be proved or in the last place if it be said that the word translated ordaine signifies an ordination upon a previous or antecedent election of the people then ' its cleare that election doth not thrust out ordination nor the act of the people justle out the act of Paul and Barnabas and so that engine workes not by this Text which is so much clearer for ordination than election as the act of Paul and Barnabas is more expresse then that couchant act of the people which is pretended to lie hid in the same word which if it be taken in one simple sense signifying either generally to constitute or ordaine and so relate to the act of Paul and Barnabas without thrusting into the notion of the word either imposition of hands which may be made good elswhere in Scripture to have beene used in ordination or election by the people which cannot be made good elsewhere or signifying election by suffrage and so relate both to Paul Barnabas and the people as if they all concur'd in election or vote and that was all they did both these significations the word will beare though not the Text but if it carry twins in the belly of it and import two divers acts different in kinde and so relate to some act of Paul and Barnabas differing from the act or suffrage of the people then must that signification be proved by good examples lest it bee found never to have beene so used before Luke used it so but I hold my hand from further prosecution of this Scripture and offer to you one observation more tending to cleare the point in hand and that is out of Acts 6. where it is cleare that there was an election of the seven and as cleare that the constitution or ordination of them was reserved unto the Apostles vers 6. Looke yee out seven men whom wee may appoint or constitute over this business the people elected the Apostles ordained vers 3. 5. But the election is not called the constitution or ordination for that the Apostles are said to doe and how did they doe it vers 6. when they had prayed they laid their hands on them ordination by imposition of hands was the constitutive act The peoples 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 6. and the Apostle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 3. are not all one that poore criticisme would never have beene borne if the f Diatrib p 10. Author of it had but set the words together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the people set or presented the elected before the Apostles they did not ordaine them before the Apostles but presented them to be constituted and ordained by them over that business unto which they were chosen vers 3. There is not a more usuall word in the a Arist politic passim Acts 7. 10. 27. 35. Mat. 24. 47. 25. 41. ●u 12. 14. Acts 6. 3. Titus 1. 5. usually with the prepostion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifying the place or the subject matter of their office goverment greeke tongue to signifie the making of a Governour or setling one into an office or praefecture then this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is also used for the constitution of Elders and Church Officers in the new Testament which wee call ordination If you please to consult the practise of antiquity in the point of election of Bishops ab ordine plebe as they use to say by the Church officers and community you shall finde 1. That election was never set so high as to give checke to ordination nor accounted that wherein the mission or sending did consist but as a preparative to ordination by way of good testimony of the person to bee ordained 2. When you have searcht all records as b Spalato derep eccles lib. 3. cap.