the dis-officing or deposing of them again 1. WHen a Church by admission of more members is now grown to a competent number which oft-times proves some g No wonder it is long first what for want of such choice members as they seek and what for want of choice Ministers for they tell us to our comfort that many that were counted good Ministers in old Eng. are there laid aside because the Churches there doe aime at men of speciall abilities yeares first then they addresse themselves to the calling of some to the Ministery and other offices in the Church R.M. to W.R. 2. If any of their own members be fit for the service they make choice of them If not they procure elsewhere Yet so that none is chosen to be an officer in any Church till he be first formally admitted h Church membership is the salt that sealons all things ' Its strange that his membership in the Church whence he last came by communion of Churches can stand him in no stead member of the same Church in the same manner every way as others have beene H.W. to Mr B. 3. The severall Churches with them how small soever and though as yet without any officers doe challenge to themselves both power and execution of all things whatsoever do belong to the calling and creating of their own officers as 1. To i What abilities most good men have in judging of Ministers as reason so their own experience will tell them when as if I be rightly informed all the members of the Church of Boston some few excepted did strongly stickle to have had Mr Wheelwright that famous Familist joyned as co teacher with Master C. in that Church Also see Apol. Narr p. 24. examine and try their abilities and fitnesse 2. To elect them 3. To instruct them in their office at their ordination 4. To ordaine them with imposition of hands prayers and charges given them And in summe to give them all the power of their office in that Church in the name of Christ Ans to 32. q. p. 40 41 42 68 71. Discourse of Cov. p. 23. ‑ Ans to 9. Pos p. 70 77. R.M. to W.R. ‑ H.W. to Mr B. Rob. justif p. 300 303. Cannes Necess of separ p. 29. Barr. refut of Giff. p. 130. A light for th◠ign p. 7. Rob. Apology 4. Whereby it is come to passe that every of their first Ministers at least in every of their Churches is ordained by one or more k Have not wee as much cause to doubt of the truth of their ministerie as they of ours they being made by meere private men i.e. not in any office ours by Presbyters at least and therein according to the Apostles rule 1 Tim. 4.14 seeing the Bishops themselves were Presbyters with whom were other Presbyters ever joyned in Ordination of any Besides the choice and approbation of many of us by our people also whether they or we come neerer to the Rule let the Reader judge private men appointed by the rest in their names to pray over them impose hands upon them instruct charge them and give them authoritie there to minister The act being the act of the whole Church but for order and ease sake the formalitie is committed to one or two in name of the rest l The Levites election was from God immediately and their Ordination by the Priest by Gods appointment Numb ◠11 13 14. The peoples laying on of their hands in this work was not authoritative that were needlesse when God had authorised them both immediately by himselfe and mediately by the Priest before if not presumptuous that they should interpose their authoritie when God himselfe had established them by his But either it was obedientiall only to declare their approbation of Gods choice and Ordination and then it is nothing to our brethrens authoritative imposition of the peoples hands Or rather as I conceive for the same end for which they were commanded to lay hands on the head of the sacrifice to be oftred as vers 12. viz. to signisie that they i.e. their first born by right were all the Lords and did owe to be but that God of his goodnesse was now pleased to accept of the Levites for them vers 16. As the Israelites laid hands on the Levites Numb 8.10 ‑ J.M. to R.M. ‑ Ans to 32. q. p. 68 69 70. R.M. to E.B. p. 10. Rob. justif p. 328 331 338. 5. They hold that the peoples m By this reason me thinks all that are elected by the people to a constant exercise to a constant exercise of the chiefe dutie of the Pastours office which is prenching of the Word and do also by compact receive the tithes and wages due by law to the Pastour should be the Pastours of the places where by the peoples choice they doe so preach and by consequent many of our brethren of that way here in London and England should be Pastours of many of our Parish Churches But doe they count themselves so or do they carry themselves so Election is not onely essentiall unto but also the whole substance of the calling of the Minister or other officer But as for Ordination with imposition of hands of the Presbyterie or other signe they hold it not essentiall at all but a meere formalitie or solemnitie of the calling the presence whereof addeth nothing to the substance of the calling and the absence thereof takes nothing from it Ans to 32. q. p. 67 68 69. Discourse of Cov. p. 23. ‑ R.M. to E.B. p. 10. Apol. p. 24. Rob. justif p. 308 332 333 334 335. Rob. Apol. p. Per electionem jus ministerii Presbyteris confertur c. Barr. refut of Giff. p. 219 130. 6. After the first officers are thus made by the Church the formalitie of ordaining the rest is ordinarily committed to such n So that if they have but one Pastour or Teacher he alone laies hand on the next officer to be ordained But S e Pauls rule for Ordination is that it should bee done by the hands of the Presbyterie not of one Imgle Presbyter much lesse of one private man officers as are alreadie called and ordained not as having any more power by vertue of their office to doe it then before for the power is the Churches and belongs equally to every member as a member but as being the Churches publike servants to doe it for them and in threi name and stead See the quotations cited before Art 4. Rob. justif p. 321 323 327. 7. In the sorts or kinds of their officers they agree with others of the best reformed Churches o I will not impute to the generall that private opinion but too publikely here by some of them vented that the Pastor is only to feed the people with wholesome doctrine the ruling Elders onely to visit them and see to their manners Onely whereas in opinion and tenent they precisely distinguish between the Pastors and
u How can this stand with their doctrine of the covenant before which tyeth the members to church duties only to their own Church and that Sacraments belong onely to the members of their owne Church and with their doctrine following that Ministers are Ministers only to their own people and cannot doe a ministeriall act to any but such as by calling them have given them power over them which some of themselves perceiving rather then part with this latter which they hugge as a precious truth are content to question the former of the communion of Churches as S. E. mutually partake each with other in some Church-ordinances * If this may be done in Sacraments by vertue of Church communion why not in Ordination and Excommunication also as Sacraments And that this Communion is both between the Ministers and members of the same Ans to 9. Pos p. 62 78. Ans to 32. q. p. 29. Apol. p. 2 13. ‑ R.M. to E.B. p. 11. 2. By vertue of this Church communion they say one Church by letters of recommendation may give power to another Church over any of her members for Excommunication and the x This Divinitie is strange to me Themselves hold the Ministers power is not his own but concredited to him by the church so that he is but a Deputie himself deputatâ—a non potest deputare How then should he derive his authoritie to another and convey his power over to him as his deputie who himselfe is but the Churches deputie Ministers of one Church may convey power to the Ministers of another Church for Administration of the Sacraments to any of their members Cott. cat p. 7. Apol. p. 2 14 26 40. ‑ J.W. to T.S. Hence the infants of some of Windsor Church in N.E. have been baptized by the Ministers of the Church of Dorchester there R.M. to W.R. 3. But without such letters of recommendations and formall granting over of such power from one Church and Minister to another it were y They are very tender of losing any of their members and of having them but to communicate for a time with any other churches but their own but they make no bomes of getting all the members they can from cur Ministers and Churches belike we have neither true Ministers nor Churches and therefore they may doe with us what they list unlawfull in any case to administer any Church ordinance to any Church or members but their owne or to admit them to any Church communion upon any pretence whatsoever Apol. p. 14 26 40. 4. Though they hold it lawfull by this Communion of Churches for one Church to admit the members of another unto fellowship of Church ordinances and priviledges yet not of every Church But they thinke themselves bound to know the Church well whose members they so admit as well as the members themselves whether it bee a true Church or a false a pure Church or a corrupt Ans 10 32. q. p. 29. 5. And that if they should admit any members of a false Church they should offend in so holding communion with a false Church yea if they should admit any members of a corrupt Church they should be defiled by such communion unlesse they did first protest against their corruptions Ans to 32. q. p. 29. ‑ J.C. printed letter p. 12. yet they hold no such z What ground for this distinction of defilement by Church communion and no defilement by religious communion defilement by admitting them unto religious communion though their Church were not only impure but utterly false 6. They are very straight-laced in denying communion to the members of other Churches that are not a This is one cause and the chief why our most godly English going over thither are yet rejected from all Church communion there Not because of any personall defect but because of the reputed corrupt estate of our Churches whereof they stand or lately did stand as members constirated and governed in the same manner with their own which onely they conceive to be constituted and governed according to the Rule of Christ Ans to 32. q. p. 82 83 84. yea if a companie of approved godly people should sit downe neer them where their power reacheth differing from them onely in some points of Church-Government some of them tell us that not only they should not be b If upon such smaller differences they be so severe how much more would they be in greater Some of their pactie here plead hard to be indulged in sesser differences yet what those are we may not know or whether they he lesser or greater tolerable in a Church or not and if they be not hearkned unto they are apt to cry out Persecution persecution yet when others desire the like favour of them they tell us there is no favour to be expected if we persist to breake any Rule of Christ their meaning is if we follow them not close in their wayes So partiall and sâ—lfish are some men that they thinke all severitie to others too little to themselves too much owned as a sister Church but should also be in danger of severe punishment by the civill Magistrate H.W. to P.H. What they hold of our English Churches and Ministers see in the Postscript CHAP. XI Of Excommunication and Re-acception into Church-fellowship again upon repentance N. I find little difference herein betweene them and others of the reformed Religion more then what is above touched save that 1. I Heare some of them have prest that not only the scandalous but also the f And no marvell For if none must be of the Church but reall Saints such as have truth of grace which they cannot have that do not in some proportioÌ„ grow in grace therfore it must needs follow that such should be cast out And by the same reason cut with all that doe not convincingly shew all such evidences of grace as Divines from Scripture do lâ—y down as demonstrations of grace in men But if we closely hold to this way of triall of the members of true visible Churches we may well make Churches as the Brownists consisting of 2. or 3. or perhaps as our N.E. brethren of 7 8 or c. members but we shall rarely if ever meet with such numerous Churches as the Scriptures hold forth and therefore such as all Churches ought to be as neare as may be non-proficients that grow not in grace under the meanes might be excommunicated Which was the ground as some of them report of a groundlesse course set on foot amongst them at Cambridge in N. Engl. That the people met together privately at certain times weekly or fortnightly each one to hold forth unto the rest the work of God upon his or her soul from their first conversion unto that present day that so their Pastour might know how they grew in grace A.W. to Mr B. CHAP. XII Of Church officers their office manner of calling their power maintainance and
fit untill they be o It s an hard taske to satisfie all commers touching these things questioning and objecting what they please and harder for a man to be stayed perhaps for some differences about Church Discipline or suppose some objection be made against his life it must here be presently and openly declared and scanned before all the countrey This is little wisedome lesse charitie satisfied if it may be Ibid. 9. If in the end the said Messengers be not satisfied then they or so many of them as concerning whom they are not satisfied either in point of knowledge or grace are forbidden to enter into Church estate and so remaine still as before out of the pale of the Church Ibid. 10. If at length they be fully satisfied and all doubts cleared then the said persons proceed to enter into Church-covenant which being written one of them reads and all of them subscribe it and so they are become a true p If so much time and so many encumstances be needful to joyn 7. or 8. together into one church how much time would be requisite to joyn 3000. together But our brethren will acknowledge the Apostles went a shorter way to work Discourse of Cov. p. 29 30. the reason whereof they render because the Church was not then subject to so many hypocrites which is more then any man knowes when Christ saith Many are called few chosen Many seeke but few sinde Besides this course is used by our brethren not to ordinary Christians only but to the most godly and best approved I beleeve therefore it was rather because the Holy Ghost had given them no such direction nor was this manner of church constitution then hatcht constituted visible Church as they say Ibid. 11. Which being done the said Messengers of the other Churches give them the right hand of fellowship and owne them for a sister Church And so returning backe doe make report to the Churches that sent them of all things done and declare to them that they are to account of them as of a true Church of Christ Ibid. CHAP. VI. Of Church-power or the power of the Keyes the first subject in whom it resides and the exercise of it in generall 1. THey hold that every such companie as aforesaid though never so small consisting of private persons only i.e. such as are in no church-office and perhaps all illiterate too yet is rightly and immediately intituled to all the priviledges of the visible Church of Christ and invested with all Ecclesiasticall q Who would not long to be soon churched in this way seeing thereby immediately they might be indued with so vast a power This is a sweet morsell no marvell if peoples teeth water for it But where or when did God so grant all this power over to the people that yet he excepted the Sacraments and them only out of the charter surely either he gave them all or none The necessitie of which consequence some Brownists perceiving therefore of late here in London have claimed and contended for them also The word and Sacraments in our Saviours commission are knit together Goe preach and baptise and both settled upon the Ministerie But our brethren have here divided them and made preaching common to the people And though our brethren intend not so yet in event possibly this may nourish in the vulgar some fragment of poperie as if the Sacraments were more excellent then the preaching of the Word they being reserved as peculiar to the Ministers this common to others with them power from Christ as the first and proper receptacle thereof have the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven committed to them and may now forthwith administer and partake of all church-ordinances except onely Sacraments execute all Church-censures and transact all their owne businesses within themselves Ans to 32. q. p. 10. 41 44 48 49 50. Cott. cat p. 10. R. M. to W. R. R. M. to E. B. p. 4. ‑ J. W. ans to 10. quest See Rob. justif p. 106 107 112 121 122 125 126 127 138 190 113 167 184 198 331. Sions royall prerog Preface Barr. discov p. 39. 2. The particular sorts of which Church businesses are these 1. Admission of more members into their Societie 2. Authoritative admonition of members offending 3. Binding and excommunicating of such as having offended prove incorrigible 4. Loosing and authoritative forgiving such as upon admonition and excommunication do repent re-accepting them into the communion of the Church again 5. r How weake good people are and insufficient without their guides assistance to examine Ministers abilities to judge of Doctrines and other matters touching persons and things needfull to the exercise of Church-government he that please may see in our brethrens late Apologeticall narration p. 24 28. Besides the experience of the Bostoners in N. E. who generally would have chosen Mr Wheel-right the notorious Familist to have been co-teacher with Mr C. there had not some few withstood it as I. P. told W. R. Making i.e. examining electing and with imposition of hands ordaining their Pastours and all other their officers 6. Unmaking i.e. degrading and deposing them again when they see cause so to do 7. Preaching i.e. expounding and applying the word with all authoritie to the severall uses of their members 8. And generally whatsoever else may concerne the edification and spirituall good of that societie save onely the administration of the seales And all this before they have any officers or if they have any yet without reference to them as officers at all 9. And when they have Ministers then they have Sacraments too Ans to 32. q. p. 10 15 41 42 44 45 48 49 50 68. Cott. cat p. 10 11 12. Dis-course of Cov. p. 23. Ans to 9. Pos p. 62 70 76 77. J. W. ans to 10. quest R. M. to E. B. p. 4. ‑ R. M. to W. R. Apol. p. 24. Rob. justif p. 9 111. 3. All which things they claime to themselves power to doe without any ſ When officers are not yet setled in any Church or being once setled do fail through casualtie it is agreed upon on all hands that some extraordinary course is to be taken Let it therfore be considered whether it be not more proper and neerer to the ordinary rule to call in the assistance of the officers of some neighbouring churches by vertue of that communion of Churches which themselves acknowledge to supply the wan of their owne officers in examination ordination and deposition of Ministers c. rather then to use meere private persons i.e. non-officers of the same Church authoritative concurrence or assistance of any other Churches or their officers which they hold unlawfull in others to offer and in themselves to accept or admit Ans to 32. q. p. 41. R. M. to E. B. p. 10. Rob. justif p. 335 339. 4. Therefore they ordinarily convene together before they have any officers and hold publike Ecclesiasticall meetings and