that S. Paul meaneth there a full plerophorian and perswasion that that which he doth is well done I graunt it But from whence can that spring but from fayth and how can we perswade and assure our selues that we do well but whereas we haue the word of God for our warrant so that the Apostle by a metonimie Subiecti pro adiuncto doth geue to vnderstād from whence the assured persuasion doth spring Whereupon it falleth out the forasmuch as in all our actions both publyke priuate we ought to follow the direction of the word of God in matters of the church and which concerne all there may be nothing done but by the word of god Not that we say as you charge vs in these words that no ceremonie c. may be in the church except the same be expressed in the word of God but that in making orders and ceremonies of the church it is not lawfull to doe what men list but they are bound to follow the generall rules of the scripture that are geuen to be the squire whereby those should be squared out Which rules I will here set downe as those which I would haue as well al orders ceremonies of the church framed by as by the which I wil be content that all those orders ceremonies which are now in question whether they be good conuenient or no should be tried examined by And they are those rules which Paule gaue in such cases as are not particularly mētioned of in scripture The first that they offend not any especially the Church of God. The second is that which you cite also out of Paul that all be done in order and comclynes The thirde that all be done to edifying The last that they be done to the glory of God. So that you see that those things which you recken vp of the houre time day of prayer c. albeit they be not specified in the scripture yet they are not left to any to order at their pleasure or so that they be not agaynst the worde of God but euen by and according to the word of God they must be established and those alone to be taken which do agree best and nearest with these rules before recited And so it is brought to passe which you thinke a great absurdity that al things in the church should be appoynted according to the word of god Wherby it likewise appeareth that we deny not but certayne things are left to the order of the church because they are of the nature of those which are varyed by times places persons other circumstances so could not at once be set down established for euer yet so left to the order of the church as that it do nothing agaynst the rules aforsayde But how doth this follow that certaine things are left to the order of the church therfore to make a new ministerie by making an Archbishop to alter the ministerie the is appointed by making a bishop or pastor without a church or flock to make a deacon without appointing him his church wherof he is a deacon wher he might exercise his charge of prouiding for the pore to abrogate cleane both name office of the elder with other more how I say doth it follow the because the church hath power to order certaine things therfore it hath power to do so of these which God hath ordayned and established of the which there is no tyme nor place nor person nor any other circumstance which can cause any alteration or chaunge Which thing shall better appeare both in the discourse of the whole booke and especially there where you go about to shew certayne reasons why there should be other gouernmēt now then was in the tyme of the apostles But whyle you goe about to seme to say much rake vp a great nomber of thinges you haue made very euill mestin and you haue put in one thinges which are not paires nor matches Because I will not draw the reader willingly into more questions then are already put vppe I will not stand to dispute whether the Lordes day which we call Sonday being the day of the resurrection of our sauiour Christ and so the day wherein the worlde was renued as the Iewes sabboth was the day wherein the world was finished and being in all the churches in the Apostles times as it seemeth vsed for the day of the rest and seruing of God ought or may be changed or no. This one thing I may say that there was no great iudgement to make it as arbytrarie and chaungeable as the houre and the place of prayer But where was your iudgement when you wrote that the scripture hath appoynted no discipline nor correction for suche as shall contemne the common prayers and hearing the word of God VVhat churche discipline would you haue other then admonions reprehensions and if these will not profitte excommunication and are they not appoynted of our sauioure Christe There are also ciuill punishments and punishmentes of the body likewise appoynted by the word of God in diuers places in Exodus He that sacrificeth to other gods and not to the Lorde alone shall dye the death And in Deutcronomie Thou shalt burne out the euill out of the middest of thee that the rest may heare learne and not dare do the like The execution of thys law appeareth in the Chro. by king Aza who made a law that all those that did not seke the Lord shuld be kilde And thus you see the ciuill punishment of contēners of the word prayers There are other for such as neglect the worde which are according to the quantitie of the fault so that whether you meane ciuil or ecclesiasticall correction the scripture hath defined of them both I omit that there be examples of pulpits in Nehemias which the common translation calleth Ezra of chaires in S. Mathew where by the chaire of Moses our sauioure Christ meaning the doctrine of Moses doth also declare the manner which they vsed in teaching Of sitting at the communion which the Euangelist noteth to haue bene done of our Sauioure Christ with his disciples which examples are not to be lightly chaunged and vppon many occasions But this I can not omitte that you make it an indifferent thing to preache the word of God in churches or in houses that is to say priuately or publikely For what better interpretation can I haue then of your owne wordes which say by and by after of Baptisme that it is at the order of the church to make it priuate or publike For if it be in the power of the church to order that Baptisme may be ministred at the house of euery priuate person it is also in her power to ordayne that the worde be preached also priuately And then where is that which Salomon sayth that wysdom cryeth openly in the streates and at the corners of the stretes where
chuse an other conceyueth the prayer wherby the helpe of God in that election and his direction is begged and no doubt executed the residue of the things which pertayned vnto the whole action In the seconde of the actes all the Apostles are accused of drunkennesse Peter answeareth for thē all wypeth away the infamy they were charged with But you will say where are the voyces of the rest which did chuse Peter vnto thys First you must know that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstāce then surely you do Peter great iniury that aske whether he were chosen vnto it For is it to bee thought that Peter would thrust in hym selfe to this office or dignitie without the consent and allowance of hys fellowes and preuent hys fellowes of thys preheminence vndoubtedly if it hadde not beene done arrogantly yet it must needes haue a great shew of arrogancye if hee hadde done thys without the consent of hys fellowes And heere you shall heare what the Scholiast sayth which gathereth the iudgement of Greke diuines hora speaking of Peter panta meta koines auton gnomes poiounta Behold how he doth all with their common consent And if any man hereupon will say that Peter exercised domination ouer the rest or gate any archapostleship beside that the whole story of the actes of the apostles and his whole course of life doth refute that the same Scholiast which I made mention of in the same place sayth he did nothing archikos imperiously nothing meta exousias with domynion or power Further I will admonishe him to take heede least if he striue so sore for the archbyshop he slide or euer he be aware into the tentes of the papistes which vse these places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the rest of the apostles And that it may bee vnderstanded that thys moderate rule voyde of all pompe and outward shew was not perpetuall nor alwayes tyed vnto one man which were the last poyntes of the cautions I put before turne vnto the 15. of the Actes where is shewed how with the rest of the church the apostles and amongst them Peter being assembled to decide a great controuersie Iames the Apostle and not Peter moderated and gouerned the whole action when as after other had sayd their iudgementes and namely Paule and Barnabas Peter he in the ende in the name of all pronounced the sentence and that whereof the rest agreed and had disputed vnto and the residue rested in that iudgement the which also may likewyse appeare in the 21. of the Actes This is hee which is called the byshop in euery church thys is he also whome Iustin wherof mention is made afterwardes calleth proestos And finally thys is that great archbishoppricke and great bishoppricke that M. Doctor so often stumbleth on This order and preheminence the Apostles time and those that were neare them kept and the nearer they came to the apostles times the nearer they kept them to this order and the farther of they were from those times vntill the discouering of the sonne of perdition the further of were they from thys moderation and nearer to that tyranny and ambitious power which oppressed and ouerlayde the churche of God. And therefore maister Caluin doth warely say that one amongst the apostles indefinitely not any one singular person as Peter had the moderation and rule of the other and further shadoweth out what rule that was by the example of the consul of Rome whose authoritie was to gather the senate together to tell of the matters which were to be handled to gather the voyces to pronounce the sentence And although the Antichrist of Rome had peruerted all good order and taken all libertie of the church into hys the Cardinalles Archbishops and Byshoppes handes yet there are some colde and lyght footinges of it in our synodes which are holden with the parliament where amongst all the mynisters which are assembled out of all the whole realme by the more part of voyces one to chosen which should goe before the rest propounde the causes gather the voyces and bee as it were the mouth of the whole company whome they terme the prolocutor Suche great force hath the truthe that in the vtter ruines of Popery it could neuer be so pulled vp by the rootes that a man coulde neuer know the place thereof no more or that it shoulde not leaue suche markes and printes behinde it whereby it myght afterwardes recouer it selfe and come agayne to the knowledge of men Now you see what authoritie we allow amongst the ministers both in their seuerall churches or in prouinciall sinodes or nationall or generall or what so euer other meetinges shall be aduised of for the profite and edifying of the church and withall you see that as we are farre from thys tyranny and excessiue power which now is in the church so we are by the grace of God as farre from confusion and disorder wherein you trauell so much to make vs to seeme giltie M. Doctor reasoneth agayne that Paule an Apostle and in the highest degree of ministerie was superior to Timothe and Titus Euangelistes and so in a lower degree of mynisterie therefore one mynister is superior to an other one byshop to an other byshop whych are all one office and one function As if I shuld say my Lord Mayor of London is aboue the sherifes therfore one sherife is superior to an other Again an other argumēt he hath of the same strēgth Titus being an Euangelist was superior to al the pastors in Crete which was a degree vnder the Euangelists therfore one pastor must be superior vnto an other pastor And that he was superior he proueth because he had authority to ordaine pastors so that the print of the archbyshop is so deepely set in his head that hereof he can imagine nothing but that Titus shuld be archbishop of all Crete I haue shewed before how these words are to be taken of S. Paule and for so much as M. Doctor burdeneth vs wyth the authority of Caluin so often I wil send him to Caluins owne interpretation vpon this place wher he sheweth the Titus did not ordaine by his owne authority for s. Paul wold not graunt Titus leaue to do that whych he him self wold not and sheweth that to say that Titus should make the election of pastors by him selfe is to giue vnto hym a princely authority and to take away the election from the church and the iudgement of the insufficiency of the minister from the company of the pastors whych were sayeth he to prophane the whole gouernment of the church I maruell therfore what M. doctor meaneth to be so busy wyth M. Caluin and to seke confirmation of his archbyshop and byshop at him whych wold haue shaken at the naming of the one and trembled at the office of the other onles it be because he would faine haue hys plaister where he receiued hys wound but I dare assure him
A REPLYE TO AN answere made of M. Doctor VVhitegifre AGAINSTE THE ADMONITION to the Parliament By T. C. ISAIE 61. ver 1. For Syons sake I will not holde my tonge and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forthe as the lighte and the saluation thereof be as a burning lampâ— Ver. 6. 7. Ye that are the Lordes remembrancers keepe not silence and geue hym no rest vntill he repayre and set vp Ierusalem the prayse of the world The Printer to the Reader SOme perhaps will maruel at the newe impression of thys boke and so muche the more will they wonder because they shall see that with great confidence boldnes notwythstanding our most gracious Princes late published proclamation procured rather by the Byshops then willingly sought for by her maiestie whose mildnes is such that she were easyer led to yelde to the proclamation of the highest then drawne to proclaime any thing against hym were it not for the subtil perswasions and wicked dealings of thys horned generation as by their false doctrine and cruell practises is to bee seene and by the speciall motion of Gods spirite and hys protection it hath bene both attempted and ended But cease to muse good christian reader whosoeuer thou art and learne to know that no lawes were they neuer so hard and seuere can put out the force of Gods spirite in hys children nor any cruelty though it stretched it selfe so far as to sheding of bloud from which kynde of dealing the Byshops are not cleare as the Prysons in London the Gatehouse at Westminster c. can witnesse the Lord for geue them and vs our sinnes can discharge the sayntes and seruauntes of the Lord from going forwarde in that which is good For the profite therefore of the godly and their instruction haue we hazarded our selues and as it were cast our selues into suche daungers and troubles as shal be layed vpon vs if we come into the haÌ„ds of the persecuting Bishops From the which pray the Lord if it be hys will to delyuer vs if not yet that it woulde please hym to geue vs both patience to beare what so euer he shall geue them power and lyberty to lay vpon vs and constancy also to contynue in hys truth and the profession thereof vnto our lyues end Farewell in the Lord and prayse God for thys worke I. S. Faultes escaped Page 2. line 14. for arme read army pa. 60. line 30. for thys spirite read hys spirite Page 39. line 41. for when read whom pa. 39. line 47. for against them read agaynst hym Page 26. line 37. for appose read oppose pa. 23. line 31. for ioipon read loipon and for proegoron read proegoros pa. 10. li. 41. for kairoutiche read kairou tyche pa. 69. for dioceris diocesis Page 9. line 16. put a comma at speache and a full poynt at vse Page 106. line 12. for to breake read doe breake Page 118. line 31. in the ende therof adde whych thyng also M. Doctor graunteth Page 127. line 6. for I beleue read I wil beleue page 127. line 8. For the apostles read For the false Apostles page 129. line 51. for and more in the read and more to in the. Page 130. line 41. for sole meditation read sole mediation page 137. line 49. for and that it is read and it is page 138. line 4. for ingenium read ingenuum page 138. line 14. for necessary read necessarily page 141. line 15. for there is greater read there is a greater Page 142. line 32. for and other read an other page 144. line 7. for herevpon read herevnto Page 144. line 51. for celebrating in one kinde read celebrating it in one kinde Page 146. line 18. for the other vsed in the other vsed only in pa. 160. li. 23. for tute read true Page 163. line 43. for there were many read there were very many page 174. line 3. for Ambose read Ambrose page 188. line 29. for in England or in Ireland read and in England Page 189. line 8. for vicarse read vicares page 1â—8 in the margent for Concil Valense reade Concil Vasense page 201. in the margent adde to that of August lib. 2. de consolatione mortuorum cap. 5. page 207. line 42. read for catexochen read cathexochen Page 205. line 21. for possessed read dysposesssed Page 210. line 46. and other thyngs and do other thyngs pa. 214. li. 15. for iabon read labon Page 215. line 20. for or so much deceyued of read or so much as deceiued A short Table of the princypall poyntes entreated of in thys boke made according to the order of the Alphabet A  M. Doctors Anacletus counterfait 92. M. Doctors Anicetus counterfait 92. There are now no Apostles 63. The churche was established in the Apostles tymes 51. Apostles appoynted no archbyshoppes but byshoppes 92. Corruptions entred into the church immediatly after the times of the apostles 96. Apparell of the mynisters 71. c. Apparell of mourners is either hypocriticall or els daungerous to prouoke excessiue sorrow 201. Archbyshops archdeacons names vnlawfull 82. c. Archbyshops names are not so auncient as they be supposed 88. c. Archbyshops and archdeacons offyces vnlawfull 83. c. Archbishops offices as they were in times past haue now no place with vs and of the small prerogatiue which they had then aboue other byshops 122. c. Archbyshops not spoken of by Cyprian nor bishops such as oures is but of S. Paules bishops 98. c. Archdeacons in times past how much they differed from oures now 96. Arguments of authority negatiuely or affirmatiuely out of the scripture good the vse of theÌ„ when they be drawne from men 25. B  QuestioÌ„s about Baptisme answered 172. c. QuestioÌ„s ministred to infaÌ„ts in Baptisme 169 Crossing in Baptisme wherof it rose 170. c Basile a poore Metropolitane 94. Byshops in tymes past most vnlike oure byshops now 106. c. General faults of the Boke of coÌ„mon prayer 131. Prescript forme of prayer at Burials inconuenient 200. Les lamenting the dead and les charges about Burials permitted vnto vs then to those vnder the law 200. c. Buryall sermons inconuenient 201. c. Buryall places where they were in the olde churches 69. C  Cathedral churches in times past those which are now greatly differ 204. Cathedral churches rightly called dens do hurt the good which they might do if they were conuerted into colledges or houses of study 205. â— â–ª Ceremonies must be tried by rules in the scripture and by which 27. Ceremonies making in the church belongeth vnto Ecclesiasticall persons 192. Difference betwene placing Ceremonies in the church which were not besâ—â—e tollerating those which are already placed 25. Chauncelers iurisdiction vnlawfull 188. c. Church hath not power to ordayne whether preaching or ministring of the sacramentes shal be priuate or publike 28. Church must not be framed vnto the common wealth but the
most effectuall and to geue as it were a sharper edge vnto the preaching of the word as also to be a wall to keepe it and make it contynue among vs I see there be sondry lettes which doe as it were with weapons stande vp to stoppe the passage and to hynder that it should not be setled amongst vs With the which albeit I wrastle hande to hande in thys booke yet for as much as we haue all dronke so deepe of the cuppe of vntruth that we do not only stumble at blockes which other men lay in our way but oftentymes we gather lettes vnto our selues in framyng a preiudice agaynst the truth I thought good to note shortly what those stumbling blockes are and although I can not remoue them yet to geue warning of them and to lende my hand to the weaker and simpler sort to helpe to ouerstride them The offences which are taken herein be eyther in respect of the cause or in respect of those which seeke to defend and promote the cause The cause is charged first with newnes and strangenes then as author of confusion and of disorder and last of all as enemy to princes magistrates and common wealthes For the first besides that it is no sufficient chalenge to say it is new strange there is no cause why it should be counted new which is confessed of those which mislyke it to haue bene for the most part vsed in the Apostles tymes nor why it should be esteemed straunge which is vsed now farre and neare of thys that side the sea and of no strangers but of those which are of the housholde of fayth And it shall more largely appeare in thys Booke that thys is no innouation but a renouation and the doctrine not new but renued no stranger but borne in Sion whereunto it being before vniustly banyshed ought now of ryght to bee restored And of confusion dysorder it is yet more vntruely accused For iustice may be as well accused for doing wrong as thys doctryne for bringing in disorder whose whole worke is to prouyde that nothing be done out of place out of time or otherwise then the condytion of euery mans calling will beare which putteth the people in subiection vnder their gouernoures the gouernoures in degree and order one vnder an other as the Elder vnderneath the Pastor and the Deacon vnderneath the Elder whych teacheth that a Particuler church shall giue place vnto a Prouinciall synode where many churches are and the Prouincial to a Nationall and likewyse that vnto the Generall if anye be and all vnto Christe and his worde When on the contrary parte those whych stand against thys doctrine are thereby compelled to bryng into the church great confusion and maruellous disorder whilest the pastors office is confounded wyth the deacons whilest women do minister the sacraments whych is lawful only for men whilest priuate men do that whych belongeth vnto publicke persons whilest publicke actions are done in priuate places whilest the church is shuffled wyth the common wealth whilest ciuill matters are handled by Ecclesiasticall persons and Ecclesiasticall by those whych be ciuill and to be short whilest no officer of the church keepeth his standing and one member doth take vpon it the office of an other Which things as they hazard the arme and destroy the body so they do presently hinder and will shortly if remeady be not prouided vtterly ouerthrowe the churche And therefore onles good order be in that whych was brought into the church by poperye and confusion in that whych was left vnto the church by the Apostles and that it be order that publike actions should be done in priuate places by priuate persons and by women that is appoynted to be done by men and confusion when the contrary is obserued and finally onles order haue an other definition or nature then hitherto hath bene read or heard of there is no cause why this doctrine which containeth the discipline and gouernment of the churche should be thus shamefully slaundered wyth confusion and disorder For the third poynt whych is that it is an enemy to magistrates and the common wealth if it be enough to accuse wythout proufe to say and shewe no reason innocency it selfe shall not be giltles Thys doctrine was in times past euen by their confession which wryte against it a friend vnto princes and magistrates when princes and magistrates were enemies vnto it and can it nowe be an enemy vnto princes and magistrates whych are frendes vnto it It helped and vpholded the common wealths whych were gouerned by tyrantes and can it hinder those whych are gouerned by godly princes And in what is it an ennemy to princes and magistrates Note the variance set downe the enemitie If the question be whether princes and magistrates be necessary in the church it holdeth that the vse of them is more then of the sunne wythout the whych the world cā not stand I fit be of their honor it holdeth that wyth humble subnussion of minde the outward also of the body yea the body it selfe and all that it hath if nede so require are to be yelded for the defence of the prince and for that seruice for the whych the prince will vse them vnto for the glory of God and maintenance of the common wealth If it be asked of the obedience due vnto the prince and vnto the magistrate it answeareth that all obedience in the Lord is to be rendred and if it come to passe that any other be asked it so refuseth that it disobayeth not in preferring obedience to the great God before that whych is to be geuen to mortall man It so resisteth that it submitteth the body and goodes of those that professe it to abide that whych God will haue them suffer in that case And if it be shewed that this is necessary for the church it can not be but profitable for the common wealth nay the profit of it may easly appeare for that by the censures and discipline of the church as they are in thys booke described men are kept back from committing of great disorders of stealing adultry murder c. whilest the smallest faultes of lying and vncomely iesting of harde and cholericke speaches whych the magistrate doth not commonly punishe be corrected And vndoubtedly seeing that the church common wealth do embrace and kisse one an other and seeing they be like vnto Hypocrates twinnes whych were sicke togither and well togither laughed togither and weeped togither and alwayes like affected it can not be but that the breaches of the common wealth haue proceeded from the hurtes of the church and the wants of the one from the lackes of the other Neyther is it to be hoped for that the common wealth shall flourishe vntill the church be reformed And it is also certaine that as the church shall euery day more and more decay vntill it be made eauen wyth the ground onles the walles be builded and the ruines
of the house of the Lorde whych by his manifest commaundement ought to be done wyth all spede then besides that they be very vncunning builders whych can not mende the faultes wythout ouerthrow of all especially when as the fault is not in the foundation they must remembre that as the meane whych is vsed to gather the children of God is called a building so is it called a planting And therfore as dead twigs riotous and superfluous braunches or whatsoeuer hindreth the groweth of the vine tree may be cut of wythout roting vp the vine so the vnprofitable things of the church may be taken away without any ouerthrow of those things which are well established And seeing that Christ and Beliall can not agree it is straunge that the pure doctrine of the one the corruptions of the other should cleaue so fast togither that pure doctrine can not be wyth her safetie seuered from the corruptions when as they are rather like vnto that part of Daniels image which was compounded of clay and iron therfore could not cleaue or sticke one with an other It is further sayde that the setters forwarde of thys cause are contentious and in mouing questions giue occasion to the papists of slaundring the religion and to the weake of offence But if it be found to be both true which is propounded and a thing necessary about which we contende then hath thys accusation no grounde to stande on For peace is commended to vs with these conditions * if it be possible if it lye in vs Now it is not possible it lyeth not in vs to conceale the truth * we can do nothing agaynst it but for it It is a prophane saying of a prophane man that an vniust peace is better then a iust warre It is a dyuine saying of an Heathen man Agatheâ—d eris hede brotoisi It is good to contende for good thinges The papistes haue no matter of reioysing seeing they haue greater and sharper controuersies at home and seing thys tendeth both to to the further opening of theyr shame thrusting out of theyr remnantes which yet remayne among vs The weake may not be offended considering the euen in the church of God and among those of the church there hath bene as great varieties of iudgementes as these are For what waightier controuersyes can there be then whether we shall ryse agayne or no whether circumcision were necessary to be obserued of those which beleued And yet the first was amongst the church of the * Corinthes the other was first in * Ierusalem and Antioche and after in the churches of * Galatia and yet they the churches and that the true relygion which was there professed And it is to be remembred that these controuersyes for the most part are not betwene many For sondry of those thinges which are comprehended in the answere to the Admonition haue as I am perswaded few fauourers of those especially which are of any stayed or sounder iudgement in the scriptures and haue sene or red of the gouernment and order of other churches so that in deede the father of that answere excepted we haue thys controuersy oftentymes rather with the papistes then with those which professe the gospell as we do And whereas last of all it is sayde that thys procedeth of enuy of singularitie and of popularitie although these be no sufficient reasons agaynst the truth of the cause which is neyther enuyous singular nor popular and althoughe they be suche as myght be seuerally by great lykelyhodes and probalyties refuted yet because the knowledge of these thinges pertayneth only to God which is the searcher of the hart and raynes and for auoyding of too muche tediousnesse we will rest in his iudgement tary for the day wherein the secretes of hartes shall be made manyfest And yet all men do see how vniustly we be accused of singularity which propound nothing that the scriptures do not teache the wryters bothe olde and new for the most part affirme the examples of the primitiue churches and of those which are at these dayes confirme All these accusations as well agaynst the cause as the fauourers thereof albeit they be many and dyuers yet are they no other then which haue bene long sithens in the Prophets Apostles and our sauior Christes and now of late in our tymes obiected agaynst the trueth and the professors therof And therefore as the sunne of the truth then appeared brake through all those cloudes which rose agaynst it to stoppe the lyght of it so no doubt thys cause being of the same nature will haue the same effect And as all those slaunders could not bryng the truth in disgrace with those that loued it so the children of the truth through these vntrue reportes will neyther leaue the loue of thys cause which they haue already conceaued nor yet cease to enquire dyligently and to iudge indifferently of those surmises which are put vp agaynst it Moreouer seing that we haue once ouercomed all these lets and clymed ouer them when they were cast in our way to hynder vs from coming from the grosse darknes of popery vnto the gloryous lyght of the gospell there is no cause why now they should staye our course to further perfection considering that neyther the style is hygher nowe then it was before being the very selfe same obiections and in all thys tyme we ought so to haue growne in the knowledge of the truth that in stead of being then able to leape ouer a hedge we should now haue our feete so prepared by the gospell that they should be as the fecte of a hynde hable to surmount euen a wall if neede were The summe of all is that the cause may be looked vpon with a single eye without all miste of partialitie may be heard with an indifferent care without the waxe of preiudice the argumentes of both sides may be waighed not with the chaungeable waightes of custome of tyme of men which notwithstanding Popishe excepted shall be shewed to be more for the cause then agaynst it but with the iust balances of the incorruptible and vnchangeable worde of God. And I humbly beseeche the Lord to encrease in vs the spirite of knowledge and iudgement that we may discerne thinges which differ one from an other and that we may be syncere and wythout offence vntill the day of Christ The author to the reader I Am humbly to craue at thy hand gentill reader that thou wouldest vouchsafe dyligently and carefully to compare M. Doctors answer and my reply both that thou mayst the better vnderstand the truth of the cause and that the vntempered speches of hym especially that whyppeth other so sharply for them which I haue in a maner altogether passed by and hys lose conclusions which I haue to auoyde tedyousnes not so fully pursued may the better appeare Which thing as I craue to be done through the whole booke so chefely I desire it may
must be placed in the church and nothing must be tollerated in the church he hath but small iudgemēt that can not tel that certaine things may be tollerated and borne with for a time which if they were to be sette in and placed could not be done without the great fault of them that shuld place them Againe are these of lyke waight except it be commaunded in the worde of God and except it be expressed in the word of God Many things are both commaunded and forbidden of which there is no expresse mention in the word which are as necessarily to be followed or auoided as those wherof expresse mētion is made Therfore vnlesse your waightes be truer if I coulde let it you should waighe none of my wordes Hereupon you conclude that their arguments taken ab authoritate negatiue proue nothing When the question is of the authoritie of a man in deede it neither holdeth affirmatiuely nor negatiuely For as it is no good argument to say it is not true because Aristotle or Plato sayde it not so is it not to saye it is true because they sayde so The reason whereof is because the infirmitie of man can neither attaine to the perfection of any thing wherby he might speake all thinges that are to be spoken of it neyther yet bee free from erroure in those thinges which he speaketh or geueth out and therfore thys argument neyther affirmatiuely nor negatiuely compelleth the hearer But only induceth hym to some liking or misliking of that for which it is brought is rather for an oratour to perswade the simpler sort thē for a disputer to enforce him that is learned But for so muche as the Lord God determyning to set before our eyes a perfecte fourme of hys church is both able to doe it and hath done it a man may reason bothe wayes necessarily The Lorde hathe commaunded it shoulde be in hy◠churche therefore it must And of the other side he hath not commaunded therefore it must not be And it is not harde to shewe that the Prophetes haue so reasoned negatiuely As when in the person of the Lord the Prophet sayth * wherof I haue not spoken and which neuer entred into my heart and as where he condemneth them * because they haue not asked counsell at the mouthe of the Lorde But you say that in matters of faythe and necessary to saluation it holdeth which thinges you oppose afterwardes and set agaynst matters of ceremonies orders discyplyne and gouernment as though matters of dysciplyne and kynde of gouernment were not matters necessary to saluation and of faythe The case which you put whether the byshop of Rome be head of the church is a matter that concerneth the gouernment and the kynde of gouernment of the church and the same is a matter that toucheth fayth and that standeth vpon our saluation Excommunication and other censures of the church which are forerunners vnto excommunication are matters of dysciplyne and the same are also of faythe and of saluation The sacramentes of the Lorde hys supper and of baptisme are ceremonies and are matters of faythe and necessary to saluation And therefore you which distinguishe betweene these and saye that the former that is matters of faythe and necessarye to saluation may not be tollerated in the church vnlesse they be expresly contayned in the worde of God or manyfestly gathered But that these later which are ceremonies order disciplyne gouernment in the church may not be receiued agaynst the word of God and consequently receiued if there be no word agaynst them although there be none for them you I say distinguishing or dyuiding after thys sorte do proue your selfe to be as euill a deuyder as you shewed your selfe before an expounder for thys is to breake in peeces and not to deuide And it is no small iniurie which you doe vnto the word of God to pinne it in so narow roume as that it should be able to direct vs but in the principall poyntes of our relygion or as though the substance of religion or some rude and vnfashioned matter of building of the church were vttered in them those things were left out that should pertayne to the fourme and fashion of it or as if there were in the scriptures onely to couer the churches nakednes and not also chaines and bracelettes and rings and other iewels to adorne hir and set hir out or that to conclude there were sufficient to quench hir thirst kil hir honger but not to minister vnto hir a more liberall and as it were a more delicious and daintie diet These things you seeme to say when you say that matter 's necessary to saluation and of fayth are contayned in the scripture especially when you appose these things to ceremonies order dysciplyne and gouernement And if you meane by matters of fayth and necessary to saluation those without which a man cannot be saued then the doctrine that teacheth there is no free will or prayer for the dead is not within your compasse For I doubt not but dyuers of the fathers of the Greke church which were great patrons of free wil at lest as their wordes pretende are saued holding the foundation of the fayth which is Christ The lyke might be sayd of a nomber of other as necessary doctrines wherein men being nusled haue notwithstanding bene saued Therefore seeing that the poynt of the question lyeth chiefely in this distinction it had bene good that you had spoken more certainely and properly of these things But to the ende it may appeare that this speach of youres doth something take vp shrinke the armes of the scripture which otherwise are so long large I saye that the word of God contayneth the direction of all things pertayning to the church yea of what soeuer things can fall into any part of mans life For so Salomon sayth in the second chapter of the Prouerbes My sonne if thou receiue my wordes and hyde my preceptes c. Then thou shalt vnderstande iustice and iudgement and equitie and euery good way S. Paul sayth that whether we eate or drynke or whatsoeuer we do we must do it to the glory of god But no man can gloryfy God in any thing but by obedience and there is no obedience but in respect of the commaundement and word of God therefore it followeth that the word of God directeth a man in all his actions And that which S. Paul sayd of meates and drinkes that they are sanctifyed vnto vs by the word of God the same is to be vnderstanded of all thinges else whatsoeuer we haue the vse of But the place of S. Paul is of all other most cleare where speaking of those things which are called indifferent in the ende he concludeth that whatsoeuer is not of fayth is sinne but fayth is not but in respecte of the word of God therfore whatsoeuer is not done by the word of God is sinne And if any will say
Thys is certaine that breuitie whych you pretend was in small commendation with you whych make so often repetitions stuffe in diuers sentences of Doctors and wryters to proue things that no man denyeth translate whole leaues to so small purpose vpon so light occasions make so often digressions sometimes against the vnlernednes sometimes against the malice sometimes against the intemperancie of speach of the authors of the admonition and euery hand while pulling out the sworde vpon them and throughout the whole boke sporting your selfe wyth the quotations in the margent so that if all these where taken out of your boke as winde out of a bladder we should haue had it in a narow roume whych is thus swelled into such a volume and in stead of a boke of .ij. s. we should haue had a pamfiet of two pence And whereas you say that you haue not alleaged these learned fathers for the authors of the libell but for the wise discrete humble and learned to them also I leaue it to consider vpon that whych is alledged by me First howe lyke a diuine it is to seeke for rules in the Doctors to measure the making of ceremonies by whych you mighte haue had in the scriptures there at the riuers heere at the fountaine vncerten there whych heere are certen there in parte false which are heere altogither true then to howe little purpose they serue you and last of all howe they make against you An answer to the ende of the. 29. page beginning at the. 25. at But I trust M. Caluins iudgement VVHy should you trust that M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them if they be Anabaptists as you accuse them if they be Donatists if Catharists if conspired wyth the Papistes howe can you thinke that they will so easely rest in M. Caluins iudgement whych hated and confuted all Anabaptisme Donatisme Catharisme and Papisme But it is true whych the prouerbe sayth memorem c. he that will speake an vntruthe had neede haue a good memorye and thys is the force of the truthe in the conscience of man that although he suppres it and pretend the contrary yet at vnwares it stealeth out For what greater testimonye coulde you haue geuen of them that they hate all those heresies which you lay to their charge then to say that you trust M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them Now in dede that you be not deceiued we receiue M. Caluin and weigh of him as of the notablest instrumēt that the Lord hath stirred vp for the purging of his churches and of the restoring of the plaine and sincere interpretation of the scriptures whych hath bene since the Apostles times And yet we do not so read his works that we beleeue any thyng to be true because he sayeth it but so farre as we can esteme that that whych he sayth dothe agree wyth the canonicall scriptures But what gather you out of M. Caluin First that all necessary thyngs to saluation are contained in the scripture who denyeth it In the second collection where you would geue to vnderstande that ceremonies and externall discipline are not prescribed particularly by the worde of God and therfore left to the order of the church you must vnderstande that all externall discipline is not left to the order of the churche being particularly prescribed in the scriptures no more then all ceremonies are left to the order of the church as the sacraments of baptisme and the supper of the Lord wheras vpon the indefinite speaking of M. Caluin saying ceremonies and externall discipline wythout adding all or some you goe about subtelly to make men beleeue that M. Caluin had placed the whole external discipline in the power and arbitrement of the churche For if all externall discipline were arbitrarie and in the choise of the church Excommunication also whych is a part of it might be cast away which I thinke you will not say But if that M. Caluin were aliue to heare hys sentences racked and wrythen to establishe those thyngs whych he stroue so mightely to ouerthrow and to ouerthrow those things that he laboured so sore to establishe what might he say and the iniurie which is done to him is nothing les because he is deade Concerning all the rest of your collections I haue not lightly knowne a man which taketh so much paine with so small gaine and which soweth his sede in the sea wherof there wil neuer rise encrease For I know none that euer denied those things vnles peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue that al those be contentions which moue any controuersy of things which they iudge to be amis and thē it is answered before And now I answer further that they that moue to reformation of things are no more to be blamed as authors of contention then the Phisition which geueth a purgation is to be blamed for the rumbling and stirre in the belly and other disquietnes of the body which should not haue bene if the euil humors and naughty disposition of it had not caused or procured thys purgation Wheras you conclude that these contentions woulde be sone ended if M. Caluins wordes were noted heere we will ioyne with you and will not refuse the iudgement of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuersy with you Which I speake not therfore because I would call the decision of controuersies to men and their words which pertaine only to God and to his worde but because I know hys iudgement in these things to be cleane against you and especially for that you would beare men in hand that M. Caluin is on your side and against vs And as for Peter Martyr and Bucer and Musculus and Bullinger Gualter and Hemingius and the rest of the late wryters by citing of whom you wold geue to vnderstand that they are against vs in these matters there is set downe in the latter end of this boke their seuerall iudgements of the most of these things whych are in controuersy whereby it may appeare that if they haue spoken one word against vs they haue spoken two for vs And wheras they haue wrytten as it is sayde and alleaged in their priuate letters to their freendes againste some of these causes it may appeare that they haue in their workes published to the whole world that they confirme the same causes So y if they wrote any such thyngs they shall be founde not so much to haue dissented from vs as from them selues and therefore we appeale from them selues vnto them selues and from their priuate notes and letters to their publike wrytings as more autenticall You labor still in the fire that is vnprofitably to bring M. Bucer hys Epistle to proue that the church may order things wherof there is no particular and expressed commaundement for there is none denieth it neither is thys saying that all things are to be done in the churche according to the rule of the word of God any thing repugnant vnto
this that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs according to the word of God. But if this epistle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the boke of Common prayer which are so often cited and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed as I can not vnderstand they were then besides that you do vs iniurie whych go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them which we can neither heare nor see being kept close in your study you also do your cause much more iniurie whilest you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it being faine to ransake rifie vp euery darke corner to finde some thing to couer it with Therefore it were good before you toke any benefite of them to let thē come forth and speake their owne testimonies in their owne language and ful out For now you geue men occasion to thinke that there are some other things in their Epistles whych you would be lothe the world should know for feare of fall of that which you would gladly keepe There is no man that fayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the church where he is minister to haue such order or discipline or to vse such seruice as he listeth no mā seeketh for it But to haue the order which God hath left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth and in other thyngs to vse that whych shall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited agreed by the church and constrined by the Prince And whereas you haue euer hitherto geuen the ordering of these thyngs to the churche howe come you nowe to ascribe it to the Bishops you meane I am sure the Bishops as we call Bishops heere in England whereby you fall into the opinion of the papists vnwares which when they haue spoken many things of the churche magnifically at the last they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church nowe to byshops As forme although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byshoppes and very learned also and therfore very meete to be admitted into that consultation wherin it shal be cōsidered what things are good in the church yet in respect of that office and calling of a bishop which they now exercise I thinke that euery godly learned minister pastor of the churche hath more interest and right in respect of his office to be at that consultation then any bishop or archbishop in the realme for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God function appoynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth and the other hath not But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certaine number that confusion may be auoyded and wyth the consent also of the churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery churche and of the communion and societie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Answere till the Admonition from the beginning of the 30. page VNto the places of Deuteronomic whych proue that nothyng oughte to be done in the churche but that whych God commaundeth and that nothyng should be added nor diminished First you answere that that was a precept geuen to the Iewes for that time whych had all things euen the least prescribed vnto them I see it is true whych is sayd that one absurditie graūted a hundred follow For to make good that things ought to be done besides the scripture and worde of God you are driuen to runne into parte of the error of the Manichees whych say that the olde Testament pertaineth not vnto vs nor bindeth not vs For what is it else then to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time and vnder the lawe For surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in time of the gospell I knowe none in all the olde Testament whych doe agree and I praye you what is heere sayde whych S. Iohn in the * Apocalipse saythe not where he shutteth vp the newe Testament in thys sorte I protest vnto euery mā whych heareth the prophecie of thys boke that whosoeuer addeth any thing to it the Lorde shall adde vnto him the plagues whych are wrytten in it and whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it the Lord shall take away his portion out of the boke of life and out of the things that are wrytten in it which admonition if you say pertaineth to that boke of the Apocalipse only yet you must remember that the same may be as truely sayd of any other boke of the scripture Then you are driuen to saye that the Iewes vnder the lawe had a more certaine direction and consequently a readyer waye then we haue in the time of the gospell of the whych time the Prophet sayeth that then a man shoulde not teache his neighbor they shal be so taught of God as if he should say that they that liue vnder the gospel should be all in comparison of that whych were vnder the lawe Doctors And Esay sayth that in the dayes of the gospell the people shall not stande in the outward courtes but he will bring them into the sanctuarie that is to say that they shoulde be all for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and Priestes whych only had entraunce into it Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action whych told them precisely how they should walke how is not their case in that poynt better then oures whych because we haue in many things but generall rules are to seeke oftentimes what is the will of God whych we should follow But let vs examine their lawes and compare them with oures in the matters pertaining to the church for whereas the question is of the gouernment of the church it is very impertinent that you speake of the iudicialies as though you had not yet learned to distinguishe betweene the Church and common wealth To the ordering and gouerning of the church they had only the moral and ceremoniall law we haue the same morall that they had what speciall direction therfore they enioy by the benefite of that we haue We haue no ceremonies but two the ceremonies or sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lords supper we haue as certaine a direction to celebrate them as they had to celebrate their ceremonies and fewer and les difficulties can rise of oures then of theirs and we haue more plaine and expres doctrine to decide our cōtrouersies then they had for theirs What houre had they for their ordinarie and daily sacrifices was it not left to the order of the church what places were apointed in their seuerall dwellings to heare the woorde of God preached continually when they came not to Ierusalem the word was commaunded to be preached but no mention made what
manner of place they should haue where was pulpittes commaunded or chaires and yet they had both Where any forme of buriall in the law and yet it is a thing pertaining to the church that the deade be after a comely sorte buried Where any order or forme of mariage and yet it is knowne they had It was whych is more in the discretion of that churche vppon occasion of dearthe or warre plagues or any other common calamitie to proclaime a faste I wil not be long where as you say that they had nothing but was determined by the law and we haue many things vndetermined and left to the order of the churche I will offer for one that you shall bring that we haue left to the order of the church to shew you that they had twentie whych were vndecided of by the expres word of god For as their ceremonies and sacraments are multiplied aboue oures so grewe the nomber of those cases whych were not determined by any expres worde and therefore ▪ I will conclude that for so muche as we haue the same lawes to directe vs in the seruice of God whych they had beside that a noble addition of the newe Testament to make things more manifest and to bring greater light vnto the olde Testament we haue also precise direction of our religion as they had and therfore those places of Deuter. stand in as greate force nowe touching the gouernment of the church as they did then And as for the iudiciall lawe for as muche as there are some of them made in regarde of the region where they were geuen and of the people to whom they were giuen the Prince and Magistrate keping the substance equitie of them as it were the marrow may chaunge the circumstances of them as the times and places and manners of the people shall require But to say that any magistrate can saue the life of blasphemers contemptuous and stubborne Idolaters murderers adulterers incestuous persons and suche like whych God by hys iudiciall lawe hath commaunded to be put to death I doe vtterly denye and am ready to proue if that pertained to thys question And therfore althoughe the iudiciall lawes are permitted to the discretion of the prince and magistrate yet not so generally as you seeme to affirme and as I haue oftentimes sayde that not only it must not be done against the word but according to the worde and by it After you define what is it to take from put to the word of God wherin not to speake of your wonderfull dexteritie in defining whych can define two things and those contrary putting to and taking fro with one differēce which zeno him selfe could neuer do you leaue out that whych Moses especially meant to comprehend whych is not to do more nor to do les thē he hath cōmaunded And as for your deuision it hath as euil succes here as in other places for when it is a great fault in deuiding to haue eyther too muche or too little you faulte in bothe for whereas you say they adde whych teache or decree c. besides that you leaue out whych Moses ment you forget also that whych your selfe hadde sayd which had placed adding to not only in teaching and decreeing but in thinking or beleeuing And wheras you make foure partes of your deuision the three last are found to be all vnder the first member whych is to make things of fayth and ceremonies contrary to the worde and so your deuision is not only faultye but no diuision at all The whych thing I could haue easely forgeuen you and passed by as a thing not very commendable to trauaile to shewe the pouertye of those things whych doe sufficiently of them selues as it were proclaime their owne shame but that it greeued me to see a boke lengthened wyth first second thirde last as thoughe euery one of them contained some notable newe matter whych needed an Oyes before it to stirre vp the attention of the reader when there is nothing but a many of words wythout matter as it were a sort of faire emptie Apothecaries boxes wythout any stuffe in them And for that you are so hard wyth other men for their Logike I will desire the reader to pardone me if I pursue these things more narowlyer then some peraduenture will lyke of or I my selfe delight in And so for any definition or diuision that I cā perceiue it standeth fast that nothing is to be done in the church of God but by hys commaundement and worde directing the same It is true in deede if they be not against the word of God and be profitable for the church they are to be receiued as those thyngs whych God by the church dothe commaunde and as grounded of the word of God but there is the question and therefore you taking this as a thyng graunted alwayes do alwayes fal into that whych you charge other with of the fallation of petitio principii To that in the. 34. and. 35. page VVHere in effect doe they say that the church of Englande is boide of preaching and ministring of the sacraments is it all one to say that the word in the church of England is not purely preached and the sacraments sincerely and discipline seuerely administred wyth this that the churche of England is voyde of all these Againe where do they reason thus that the worde of God is not truely preached because the ministers are not rightly proued elected when as they haue not one worde of true preaching is it all one to say it is not purely preached to say it is not truely preached S. Paul is glad that the gospel be preached although it be not purely but he wold neuer haue bene glad y it shuld haue ben preached falsly or not truly Again he inueyeth not against the false Apostles in the church of Corinth because they preached the word vntruely but because they vsing paynted wordes and affected eloquence and making a great shew of learning and tounges dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely So that you see that it is one thing not to preache truely and an other not to preache purely and you see their reason is not so euill for the want of a good calling may geue occasion to say that the word of God is not sincerely taught because there is not a lawful and ordynary calling For although for the substance of doctryne and the manner of handling of it they that S. Paul speaketh of to the Phillip dyd no fault yet S. Paul sayth that they dyd not preach purely because they dyd it of contention or of eniue which was no fault in the doctryne but in hym that taught Therefore let men iudge how iust your waights are that expounde not purely not truely and whether thys be to confute other mens arguments rather then to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes I know no papistes reason thus that because we haue no ministers therfore no word no sacraments no
places in the scripture whereof I will recite two or three In the fifthe Chapter of Iosua it is sayde that Iosua made him sharpe kniues for the circumcising of the children of Israell and a little after that Iosua circumcised them Shall we now vppon these wordes conclude that Iosua dyd make the kniues himselfe or was a cutler or being made to hys hande dyd whet them and sharpen them or shall we say that he dyd circumcise the children of Israell in his owne person and hym selfe alone when as that was done by many and by the Leuites to whome that offyce appertayned no but the scripture declareth that Iosua procured sharpe kniues to be made and exhorted and commaunded the people to be circumcised In Exodus it is sayde that Moses dyd appoynt vnto the people Princes Captayne 's ouer thousandes and hundrethes c. And if any conclude thereuppon that hee dyd it him selfe alone hee is by and by confuted by that whiche is wrytten in Deuteronomie where it appeareth that the people dyd chuse them and presented them to Moises What is it then that is sayde in Exodus that Moises appoynted them but that Moyses assembled the people and exhorted them to appoynt rulers and tolde them what manner of men they should be and in a worde sate as it were moderatour in that election To come to the newe Testament In the Actes it is sayde that Paule and Timothe delyuered vnto the churches the orders and decrees of the Apostles and elders and yet it appeareth in another place that the Church had also to doe and gaue their consent vnto the making of those decrees so that the former place meaneth that the Apostles and Elders dyd goe before and were the cheefe and directors of that action The same manner of speach is vsed of the Romane stories wherein it is sayd that the Consull dyd make Magistrates for because that he gathered the assembly and voyces whereby they were made and so S. Luke sayth heere that Paul and Barnabas ordayned because they being the moderators of the Election caused it to be made assembled the churches tolde them of the necessitie of hauing good pastors and gouernors gathered the voices tooke heede that nothing should be done lightly nothing tumultuously or out of order And so to conclude it is an euill reason to say as M. Doctor doth that because S. Luke hath that Paule and Barnabas ordayned therefore the people were excluded And I maruell with what conscience he coulde answere so in thys place especially where it is forthwith added that they ordayned them by the suffrages and voices of the church But you say that the Greeke worde cheirotonein is by the common opinion of almost all Ecclesiasticall writers vsed in the scripture for the solemne maner of ordaining of ministers by the imposition of hands which is the second exception you take to this reason Wherin but that I haue promised to holde my selfe to the matter and that these bolde asseuerances in matters most vntrue are so common that if I should euery fote pursue them I should weary my selfe and all others I coulde not keepe my selfe from running out to maruell at such high speaches voide of truthe First where you say that some translation hath that they ordained ministers wythout making mention of election what haue you gained therby when I can shew mo that translate it otherwise and say it is that they ordained by election or voices or suffrages I had not the commoditye of bookes wherby I coulde see the iudgement of all Ecclesiasticall wryters But of those whych I had I finde that there was but one only M. Gualter of that minde and yet he dothe not shut out the peoples consent in the election Master Caluin M. Beza M. Bullinger M. Musculus M. Brentius he that translated Chrysostome vppon that place Erasmus in his Paraphrases vpon that place are of the contrary iudgement of whose iudgement I would not haue spoken if you woulde not haue gone about thus to abuse youre reader wyth suche manifest vntruthes to ouerthrow the order which God hath established But let all authorities of men go and let vs examine the thing in it self If so be that the holy ghust had ment the solemne putting on of the handes vpon the heades of him that was created elder and minister had he not words enough to vtter this hys meaning would he haue for laying on of hands vsed a word that signifieth lifting vp of hands would he haue vsed a word signifying holding vp for laying downe for when the hands are layd of the head of an other they are layd downe and not holden vp There are words in the olde Testament and in the newe before S. Luke wrote and after he wrote to expres thys ceremony of laying on of hands and yet none haue euer expressed thys S. Paule speaketh thrise of it in his Epistles to Timothe and alwayes he vseth epithesis ton cheiron In the old Testament where thys ceremonie is vsed and spoken of the Septuaginta did neuer translate cheirotonein But as the wryters of the newe Testament epithesis cheiron And what should I stande in thys when as S. Luke him selfe bothe before and after speaking of that ceremony of laying on of hands doth neuer vse this word cheirotonein but the same word whych s Paule vseth and the Septuaginta and although the holy ghost speake properly and wel by whomsoeuer he speaketh yet it could haue ben worst of all sayd by S. Luke of all the Canonicall wryters that he should speake thus vnproperly who of them all wryteth moste purely and elegantly according to the phrase of the moste eloquent Grecians and therfore he borowed this speache of the auncient Greeke wryters whych did vse to expres their elections by thys worde because they were made and voyces geuen by thys Ceremonie of lifting vp of handes But what if S. Luke haue vsed thys worde before and in thys booke in the signification of chusing by voyce dare you then say that he vseth it heere for putting on of hands In the Actes S. Peter sayeth that Christ after hys resurrection appeared not vnto the whole people but vnto those whom he had before chosen by his voyce to be hys witnesses he vseth thys word procecheirotonemenous Nowe if you will say heere that it is to be turned those of whome he layd his handes I will aske you where you read that euer he layd his handes of their heads I will shewe you where he did by hys heauenly voyce appoynt thē And I thinke you are not able to shew in any Greeke author auncient which men do take to be autenticall to teache the propertie or eloquence of the Greeke tongue I meane which were before S. Luke his time where the worde cheirotonein is taken for the laying on of hands of the head of any Thys I confesse that the Greeke Ecclesiasticall wryters haue sometimes vsed it so but you
it were a priuate example of one or in one place alone or if it were countermaunded by any other rule of the scripture then the example were not alwayes safe to follow But what if there bee commaundement also In the booke of Numbers the Lorde commaundeth that the Leuites which preached the word of God to the people in their seuerall congregations shoulde be brought before the Lorde and before the people and the people should lay theyr handes vppon the Leuites heades which what other thing is it then to declare their lyking of them and by that ceremony to consecrate them and set them aparte for that vse of their ministerie And if you say that it were a disorder that all shoulde lay on their handes I graunt you but so he speaketh because the approbatiō was by all and some in the name of the rest declared that by their laying on of handes But me thinketh I heare your olde answere that this pertaineth not vnto vs being a thing done vnder the law but take heede what you say for if you wil admit neyther the generall examples of the newe Testament nor the commaundements and examples of the Olde take heede that you do not or euer you be aware spoile vs of the cheefe and principall pillers and buttresses of our religion and bring vs to plaine Catabaptistrie whych you say you are so afraid of For to proue the Baptisme of children and yong infantes what stronger holde haue we then that God commaunded in the old Testament the they should be circumcised and examples thereof in the newe Testament for that the Apostles baptised whole families wherby all likelyhode there were children Now we saye that there is thys commaundement in the olde Testament of the ministers and there are examples in the newe Testament generall and through out why shuld it not then be necessary in this as wel as in the other Besides that in the. 6. of the Actes the Apostles commaund that the church should seke them out Deacons whome they might appoynt ouer the poore Touching certaine Ceremonies I haue shewed that they are necessarye as namely the Sacraments And as for Discipline and gouernment I haue shewed partly and more heereafter will be shewed that they are of the substance of the gospell if to haue Excommunication be to haue Discipline or if to haue pastors or Byshops and Doctors and Deacons be gouernment of the Churche You say that howsoeuer in the Apostles time thys vse was of hauing the consent of the church in the choise of their pastor or byshop nowe in thys estate it were moste pernicious and hurtfull Wherin see how vnaduisedly you condemne the churches of Geneua of all Fraunce of certaine of the Germaine churches which keepe thys order But you alledge your reasons therefore those those are to be considered because they come so rare For your manner is that if you can haue but one wryter newe or olde of your side or whych seemeth to be of your side you runne away wyth the matter as though you had scripture reason doctors and all I will therefore then take a viewe of your reasons when as I shall haue breefely set downe those reasons wherby the perpetuall equitie reasonablenes and conueniencie of thys order that the church should haue a stroke in her ministers election may appeare It is sayd amongst the Lawyers and in deede reason which is the law of all nations confirmeth it Quod omnium interest ab omnibus approbari debet That whych standeth all men vpon should be approued of all men Which lawe hath this sense that if it may be it were good that those things whych shall binde all men and whych require the obedience of all shoulde be concluded as farre as may be by the consent of all or at least by the consent of as many as may be gotten And therfore it draweth much the obedience of the subiectes of thys realme that the statutes whereby the realme is gouerned passe by the consent of the moste parte of it whilest they be made by them whome the rest put in trust and chuse for that purpose being as it were all their actes So is it also when the question is to chuse the magistrate Mayor or bailiffe or Constable of euery towne whych things if they haue good groundes in ciuill affaires they haue much better in Ecclesiasticall For it is much more vnreasonable that there should be thrust vpon me a gouernoure of whom the euerlasting saluation or damnation both of my body and soule doth depend then him of whome my wealth and commoditye of thys life doth hang. Onles those vpon whome he were thrust were fooles or madde men or children wythout all discretion of ordering them selues whych as I will shewe can not agree wyth those that are the church of god and are to haue a pastor For they of the church of God although they be called sheepe in respect of their simplicitye and harmelesnes yet are they also for their circumspection wise as serpents in the wisdom especially whych is to saluation and how vile accompt so euer you wil make of of them they are the people of God and therfore spirituall and forthwith those of whome S. Paule sayth the spirituall man discerneth all thyngs Moreouer reason and experience teacheth that it maketh muche to the profiting of the church vnder the hande of the pastor or bishop that the churche loue him and reuerence him For the contempt and hatred of the minister for the most parte standeth not in hys owne person but reacheth euen vnto the doctrine whych he teacheth But the minister that the churche desireth it commonly best loueth and moste reuerenceth and of the other side hateth and contemneth hym that is thrust vpon them therfore it maketh muche to the profiting of the people in the doctrine of the gospell that the minister come in by their consent Likewise the people must by S. Paule hys rule folowe the good example of the minister but men will not likely folowe their examples whome they loue not nor loue them whych are thrust vpon them against their willes therfore it standeth wyth the good conuersation and godlye folowing of the steppes of the minister that he be wyth the consent of the Churche And if it should happen whych may come to passe that any church should desire or chuse or consent vpon by the most part some that is vnmete eyther for doctrine or manners then the ministers and elders of the other churches rounde about should aduertise first and afterward as occasion should serue sharply and seuerely charge that they forbeare suche election or if it be made that they confirme it not by suffering him to exercise any ministerie And if eyther the churches round about do faile of this duety or the church whych is admonished rest not in their Admonition then to bring it to the nexte Synode and if it rest not therin then the Prince or Magistrate whych must see
they declare manifest tokens of vnrepentantnes and then as rotten members that doe not onlye no good nor seruice in the bodye but also corrupt and infect others cut them off And if they do profit in hearing then to be adioyned vnto that church whych is next the place of their dwelling To the fifte in the. 45. page If there be no churches established because there are no christian Magistrates then the churches of the Apostles were not established And it is absurd to say that the ministers nowe wyth the helpe of the magistrate can laye surer foundations of the church or build more cunningly or substancially then the Apostles could whych were the master builders of the church of god And as for the consummation of the body of the church and the beautie of it seeing it consisteth in Iesus Christe whych is the heade that is alwayes ioyned vnseperably in all times of the crosse and not the crosse wyth his body whych is the church I can not see why the churches vnder persecution should not be established hauing bothe the foundation and the nether most partes as also the toppe and hyest parte of the churche as well as those whych haue a christian magistrate If in deede the magistrate whom God hath sanctified to be a nurse vnto his churche were also the head of the same then the church could not be established wythout the magistrate but we learne that although the godly magistrate be the head of the common wealth and a great ornament vnto the church yet he is but a member of the same The churche maye be established wythoute the magistrate and so that all the world and all the Deuilles of hell can not shake it but it can not be in quiet in peace and in outwarde suretie wythout a godly magistrate And therefore the churche in that respecte and suche like praiseth God and prayeth for the magistrate by the whych it enioyeth so singulare benefites Therevppon you conclude that the church was then populare whych is as vntrue as the former parte For the churche is gouerned wyth that kinde of gouernment whych the Philosophers that wryte of the best common wealthes affirme to be the best For in respecte of Christe the heade it is a Monarchie and in respecte of the auncientes and pastoures that gouerne in common and wyth like authoritie amongste them selues it is an Aristocratie or the rule of the best men and in respecte that the people are not secluded but haue their interest in churche matters it is a Democratie or a populare estate An image whereof appeareth also in the pollicye of thys Realme for as in respecte of the Queene her maiestie it is a Monarchie so in respecte of the moste honourable Counsell it is an Aristocratie and hauing regard to the Parliament whych is assembled of al estates it is a Democratie But you should haue shewed howe this difference of hauing a christian magistrate hauing none ought to bryng in a diuersity in the choise of the pastoure by their churche It were not harde if one woulde spende hys time so vnprofitably to finde oute a hundred differences betweene a persecuted church and that whych is in peace but seeing you can shewe me no reason why the church may not chuse her minister as well vnder a godly magistrate as vnder a tyrante I will shewe you howe that if it were lawfull to breake the order of God it were meeter in the time of persecution that the election shoulde be in some other discreate and learned persons hands to be made without the consent of the churche then in that time when there is a godly magistrate and that it is then most conuenient that he should be chosen by the church In the time of persecution a churche chuseth an vnlearned minister or one that is wicked in life howsoeuer it be he is vnfit the churches rounde about by their ministers or elders admonishe this church of her fault and moue to correct it the church will by no meanes be admonished what can nowe the other churches do in the time of persecution if they excommunicate the whole churche it is a hard matter yet if they may do that there is all they can do the euil is not remedied whych may be easely taken awaye where there is a godly magistrate and the churche as is before sayde compelled to a better choyse so you see that there are inconueniences in the chusing of the pastor and other the gouernors of the churche by the churche in the time of persecution whych are not in the time of peace vnder a christian magistrate Now I wil shew you which thinke that the consent of the church in their minister can not stand with the time of a christian magistrate that it hathe not only stode but hath bene cōfirmed in their times and by them In codice Iustiani it is thus wrytten following the doctrine of the holy Apostles c. we ordaine that as often as it shall fall out that the ministers place shall be voyde in any citie that voyces be geuen of the inhabiters of that city that he of three which for their right faith holines of life and other good things are most approued should be chosen to the Byshoprike whych is the moste meete of them Also Carolus Magnus whych was the first Germaine Emperoure in 63. distinct sacrorum canonum sayth being not ignorante of the holy Canons that the holy churche in the name of God should vse her honoure the freelyer we assent vnto the Ecclesiasticall order that the byshops be chosen by election of the cleargye and people according to the statutes of the canons of that diocesse In the. 63. distinction it appeareth that Ludouicus Carolus hys sonne decreed that he should be bishop of Rome whom all the people of Rome should cōsent to chuse Platina also in the life of pope Adrian 2. writeth that Ludouike the seconde by hys letters commaunded the Romaines that they shoulde chuse their owne bishop not loking for other mennes voyces whych being straūgers could not so well tell what was done in the common weale where they were straungers and that it appertained to the Citizens The same Platina witnesseth in the life of Pope Leo the. 8. that whē the people of Rome were earnest with the Emperoure Otho the first that he wold take awaye one Pope Iohn that liued very licentiously and riotously and place an other the same Emperoure answeared that it pertained to the cleargye and people to chuse one and willed them that they shoulde chuse and he woulde approue it and when they had chosen Leo and after put hym out wythout cause and chose one Pope Benet he compelled them to take Leo agayne Whereby appeareth that in those estates where Magistrates were Christian and where the estate was moste of all Monarchicall that is subiecte to ones gouernment that thys vse of the Churche remained and was confirmed by the Emperours and also when the churche put
oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in Cōstantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these
and election are dyuers members of one whole which is the placing of the pastor in hys church and one member can not be verified of an other as you can not say your foote is your hand I will not deny but that sometimes these wordes maye bee founde confounded in Ecclesiasticall wryters but I will shewe you also that they are distinguished and that the election pertayneth to the people and ordayning vnto the Byshop Vpon the sixte of the Actes the glose hath that that which was done there of the xij Apostles in willing the brethren to loke out fitte men was done to geue vs example muste be obserued in those that are ordayned For sayth the glose the people must chuse and the Byshoppe must ordayne And that S. Ierome must be so vnderstanded it appeareth not only that it hath beene so expounded but also it may be casely proued for that S. Ieromes sentence and iudgement appeareth in other places that he woulde haue nothing heere done with out the people as in his Epistle ad Rusticum monachum he willeth that the people shoulde haue power and authoritie to chuse their clarkes and their ministers and in hys Epistle to Neopotian of the lyfe of the clarkes he hath thys distinction manifestly They runne sayth he vnto the Bishoppes suffragans certen times of the yeare and bringing some summe of money they are annoynted and ordayned being chosen of none and afterwarde the Bishoppe without any lawfull election is chosen in hugger mugger of the Canons or Prebendaries only without the knowledge of the people And so you see that although y S. Ierome sayeth that the Byshop had the ordayning of the ministers yet he had not the election for the ordayning was nothing else but an approuing of the election by putting on of handes and consequently hauing made your vaunt that all the learned fathers were of thys iudgement that the Bishop should elect the minister you shew not so much as one Now will I shewe you the cleane contrary of that you saye not that I gladlye trauaile thys wayes for if you had not constrayned me you shoulde not haue hearde one voyce thys way And woulde to God that you woulde be content especially when you meete with those that will be tryed by the scriptures to seeke no farther strengthe then they geue you But I am lothe you shoulde oppresse the truthe and make all men afrayde of it by making them beleeue that it is so desolate and forsaken of her frendes as you pretende You confesse S. Cyprian is agaynste you herein and he was a learned father and a Martyr also whych dyd not only vse thys forme of election but also taught it to be necessary and commaunded and therefore me thincketh you shoulde not haue sayde all the learned fathers without exception You see also S. Ierome is of an other iudgement S. Augustine also when hee speaketh how hee appoynted Eradius to succeede hym sheweth howe it was the approued right and custome that the whole church shoulde eyther chuse or consent of their Bishoppe And * Ambrose sayeth that that is truely and certaynely a diuine election to the office of a byshop which is made of the whole church Eregorius Nazianzene in the Oration which he had at the death of hys father hath diuers things which proue that the election of the minister pertayned to the Churche and confuteth those thinges which should seeme to hinder it These were learned fathers and yet thought not that the election of the pastor or byshop pertayned to one man alone but that the church had also hir interest therefore you see all the learned fathers are not of that mynde you say they are And that thys election continued in the churche vntill within a three hundred yeares at what time there was more then Egyptiacall and palpable darcknesse ouer the face of the whole earth it may appeare in a Treatise of Flaccus Illirâ—cus whiche he calleth an addition vnto hys booke that he entituleth the Catalogue of the witnesses of truthe of whome I confesse my selfe to haue bene muche holpen in thys matter of the choyse of the church touching the ministers especially in the Emperoures Edictes which are before cited For lacking opportunities diuers wayes I was contented somewhat to vse the collection to my commoditie for the more speedie furtheraunce and better proceeding in other matters which I will leaue of because they may be there red of those that be learned whome I will also referre to the sixe and seuen bookes of Eusebius wher both the formes of the electioÌ„s in those tymes are described wher besides that the customes of the peoples choise is set forth there are examples of the election of the people and cleargie which were confirmed by the christian Magistrate namely in the Byshop of Constantinople And these may suffice for the other that haue not that commoditie of bookes nor habilitie nor skill to reade them being in a straunge tongue to knowe that besides the institution of God in his worde thys manner of election dyd continue so long as there was any light of the knowledge of God in the churche of god I will adde only one place which if it be more bitter then the rest and cutte the quicke more neare you shall not bee angry with me but first with those that were the authors of it and then wyth him that wrote it Eusebius speaking of Origine which was admitted not of one Bishop but of many Byshoppes to teache sheweth how the Byshoppes were reprehended by the Byshoppe of Alexandria called Demetrius because they had admitted him without the election of the presbyterie of the churche which were the cheefe in the election in euery church and vnto the which the churches did committe the gouernment of them selues in euery seuerall towne and Citie sayth that it hath not beene hearde that laikous shoulde homilein paronton ton episcopon which is that the lay men should teach when the Byshoppes were present whereby it is euident that he counted hym a lay man which was only admitted by the Byshops although they were many not being first elected by the presbyterie of that church wherof he was the teacher Seing then that the scripture doth teache thys order that there shoulde be no minister thrust vppon the churche but by the consent thereof and reason perswadeth that wayes and the vse of the churche hath beene so from time to time both in peace and in time of persecution bothe vnder tyrantes and godly Princes it can not be without the highe displeasure of almightie God the great hurte and sore oppression of the churche that one man shoulde take thys vnto hym which pertayneth to so many or one minister which pertayneth to more then one especially where the aduise of learned ministers may concurre with the peoples election or consent Now if any man will rise vp and saye that this doctryne bringeth in disorder and by thys meanes children and boyes and
controuersy left in this poynt what is a flocke S. Paule defineth it plainly when he sayeth appoynte pastors or elders or byshops for these woordes are indifferently vsed through not euery shire or prouince or realme but through euery city or town And least that any man should here take occasion to conclude that then it is lawfull for one manne to be bishoppe or pastor of a whole Citie suche as London or Yorke c. S. Luke in the Actes dothe declare the meaning of this place where he sayth that they appoynted elders throughoute euery congregation so that if the citie or towne be great and the professors of the gospell in it be more then wil make conueniently a congregation then there muste be by the rule of God more pastors and byshops Whervpon it appeareth that bothe no pastor or byshoppe ought to be made without there be a flocke as it were a voyde place for him and that a flocke is not a realme or prouince or dioces as we now call a dioces but so many as may conueniently meete in one assembly or congregation And that thys is the meaning of S. Paule it appeareth by the practise of the Churches from time to time whych haue both decreed against and found fault wyth these wandering and rouing ministeries The great councell of * Calcedon decreed that no elder or deacon or anye other in the ecclesiasticall order shoulde be ordained apolelymenos that is losely and as it were let goe at randone whether he him selfe listeth whych he also interpreateth by and by more plainly when he addeth that he should not be ordained Eime idicos en ecclesia poleos e comes that is vnies it be specially in a congregation of some citie or towne And in the councell of Vrban as Gratian reporteth distinction 70. it was decreed that the ordination that was made without any title should be void and what that meaneth is shewed by and by when it is sayd in what church any is intitled there let hym alwayes remaine And thys is also S. Ierome hys complainte in that men were ordained vnto the ministerie when they were chosen by no churche and so went rounde aboute hauing no certaine place And therefore thys that none ought to preache onles he haue some pastoral charge ought not to haue ben so strange a thing vnto you as you make it if eyther the scriptures or the councels or the ancient fathers had bene so well knowen vnto you as eyther your name requireth or you take vpon you whych dare so boldly pronoūce that there can be shewed no text of scripture for the matter But you aske what place Paule Barnabas had apoynted them What meane you therby to conclude that because Paul Barnabas the apostles had no place appoynted them therfore a pastor or bishop shuld not when this is one difference betwene the apostle and bishop that the one hath no certaine place appoynted and the other hath But I thinke I smel out your meaning which is that we may make apostles also at these dayes and that that function is not yet ceased for otherwise your reason is nothing worthe Likewise also you aske of Phillip whych was an euangelist And so you thinke y these running ministers are lawfull because they are Apostles and Euangelists against whych I shall haue occasion to speake shortly after in the. 50. page But if a man be able to liue of himselfe and minde not to be burdensome to the church it seemeth vnreasonable vnto you that he may not go about and preach throughout all churches Did you neuer read any learned disputations and that of learned wryters in our dayes about this question whether although it be lawful it be expedient that a man being able and willing to liue of himselfe ought to take wages of the church for inconueniences whych might ensue of taking nothing I do but aske you the question because you make so great a wonder at this for I wil not take vpon me heere the defence of it because I will not multiply questions And whye I may you maye not that man that is so able and will be content to liue of him selfe why I say may not he teache and be the pastor of some churche Doe you thincke that for his forbearing the wages of the Churche he may breake the lawes and orders that God hath established for the rest contained in those pages touching the ordaining of ministers or byshops I haue before spoken at large To the. 49. page OEcumenius and Chrysostome saye that by Elders he meaneth Bishops not thereby to seuer those that had the gouernement of the churche togither wyth the pastor minister of the word which were called ancients as you seeme to meane but to put distinction betweene those whych are elders by age elders by office besides y it is before alleaged y it may be y the pastor or byshop did in the name of all the elders lay on his hands vpon hym that was ordained And lastly you know and can not denye that s Paule in one or two places confoundeth the Bishop and the Elder To say that the byshop may as wel say receiue the holy ghost as to say the words vsed in the supper or to say y the sinnes of those whych to beleue are forgiuen is dis dia pason as farre as Yorke London For there are commaundements to the ministers to do that which they do and heere is none and there the minister doth not commaund that the breaue be the body of Christ but he sayth that it is Neither dothe he commaund y sinnes should be forgiuen but pronounceth in the behalfe of God that they are forgeuē It is not vnlawfull also that he with the congregation should make a prayer for the assistance or encrease of God his gifts vpon him that is ordained but to commaund that he should receiue it is meerely vnlawfull For these words receiue the holy ghost are the imperatiue moode and do expresly signifie a commaundement And so the bishop may as well say to the sea when it rageth and swelleth peace be quiet as to say receiue the holy ghost And if you thinke it so good reason to vse this in the making of ministers because you vse the wordes of our sauior Christ why may not you as wel blow vpon them as he did for seeing that our sauior Christ confirmed his word there with a sacrament or outward signe and you thinke you must therfore do it because he did it you are muche to blame to leaue out the outward signe or sacrament of breath whereby the faith of hym whych is ordained might be the more assured of such gifts and graces as are requisite in his function I heape not vp heere the iudgement of the wryters you knowe I thinke it myght casely be done if I liked to follow that way Answere to the. 50. and. 51. pages THys passeth all the diuinitie that euer I
red that there are now Apostles and Euangelistes and Prophetes You shall assuredly doe maruelles if you proue that as you say you will if any denye it I denye it proue you it And that you may haue some thing to doe more then peraduenture you thoughte of when you wrote these words I will shew you my reasons why I thinke there ought to be none nor can be none vnles they haue wonderfull and extraordinarie callings It must first be vnderstanded that the signification of thys worde Apostle when it is properly taken extendeth it selfe not only to all the ministers of God being sent of God but to the ambassadoure of any Prince or Noble man or that is sent of any publike authoritie and is vsed of the scripture by the trope of Synechdoche for the twelue that oure sauior Christ appoynted to go throughout all the world to preache the gospell vnto the whych number was added S. Paule and as some thinke Barnabas whych are seuered from all other ministers of the gospell by these notes First that they were immediately called of God as s. Paule to the Galathians proueth him selfe to be an apostle because he was not appoynted by men Then that they sawe Christe whych argument S. Paule vseth Am I not an Apostle haue I not seene Christe Thirdly that these had the fielde of the whole worlde to Till where as other are restrained more perticularly as to a certen ploughe lande wherein they shoulde occupye them selues Wherevppon it followeth that as we conclude against the Pope truely that he can be no successor of the Apostles not only because he neyther reacheth nor dothe as they did but because the Apostles haue no successors neither any can succeede into the office of an Apostle so maye we likewise conclude against those that would haue the Apostles nowe adayes that there can be none because there is none vnto whome all these three notes doe agree as that he is bothe sent of God immediately or that he hath seene Christ or that he is sent into all the world And althoughe some Ecclesiasticall wryters do call sometimes good ministers successors of the Apostles yet that is to be vnderstanded because they propound the same doctrine y they did not because they succeded into the same kinde of function whych they could not doe S. Paule doth vse this word Apostle sometimes in hys proper and natiue signification for hym that is publikely sent from any to other as when he speaketh of the brethren that were ioyned wyth Titus whych were sent by the churches wyth reliefe to the pore church in Ierusalem and Iewrie and where he calleth Epaphroditus an Apostle But that is wyth addition and not simply as in the first place he calleth the brethren the apostles of the Churches that is not the apostles of all Churches or sent to all churches but the apostles whych certaine churches sent with the reliefe to other certaine churches and Epaphroditus he calleth not an apostle simply but the apostle of the Philippians that is whych the Philippians sent wyth reliefe to Paule being in prison at Rome as it appeareth in the same Epistle And as for Andronicus and Iunius whych are by you recited belyke to proue that we may haue more apostles because it is sayd of S. Paule that they were famous and notable amongst the apostles it cannot be proued by any thing I see there whether they had any function Ecclesiasticall or no. For S. Paule calleth them hys kinneffolke and fellowe prisonners and dothe not say that they were his fellowe labourers and a man may be well notable and famous amongst the apostles and well knowne vnto them whych is no apostle And if the apostles would haue had this order of the apostles to continue in the church there is no doubt but that they would haue chosen one into Iames hys roume when he was slaine as they did when they supplied the place of Iudas by chusing Mathias and so euer as they had died the other would haue put other in their places So it appeareth that thys function of the apostles is ceased You aske farther that if a man should not preach before he haue a pastoral charge what they will answere vnto Phillip and Epaphroditus wherby your meaning is belike that although they be no pastors yet they may be euangelists whych goe about the countrey heere and there â–ª But this office is ceased in the church as the apostles is sauing that sometime the Lord doth raise vp some extraordinarily for the building vp of the churches whych are falne downe pulled vp by the foundations as I haue shewed somewhat before And that it is ceased it may appeare by these reasons First for because all those that the scripture calleth precisely Euangelists which are only Phillip and Timothe had their callings confirmed by miracle and so it is like that Titus and Syluanus and Apollos and if there were any other had their vocations after the same manner confirmed but there is no such miraculous confirmation nowe therfore there is no suche vocation For allbeit those that God hathe raised vp in those darke times and ouerthrowes of the church wherof meÌ„tion is made before as M. Luther c. had not their â—allings alwayes confirmed by direct and manifest miracles of hearing or raising vp from the deade yet the maruellous succes and blessing that the Lord gaue vnto their labors were sufficient seales vnto all men that althoughe they had no ordinarie calling nor by men yet they were sent of God That I speake nothing of the miraculous deliuerances that some of them had out of dangers by warning geuen of pearils by those whych were neuer seene before nor after and by such like wonderfull meanes as are to be seene in stories Nowe againe if there should be any Euangelist who should ordaine him you will say the Bishop But I say that cannot be that the greater shoulde be ordained of the les For the Euangeliste is a higher degree in the churche then is the byshop or pastor And if he be so whye hathe he not hys estimation heere in the Churche aboue the Byshop or Archbyshop eyther for the Archbyshop is but a Byshop or whye dothe not he ordaine Byshoppes as Timothe and Titus did whych were Euangelistes being one poynte of their office as * Eusebius declareth Againe if there be in euery churche a pastor as S. Paule commaundeth what should the Euangelists do for either that pastor doth his duetie and then the Euangelist is superfluous or if he do it not then he is no lawfull pastor and so ought he to be put out an other to be put in hys stead And where the pastor doing hys duety can not suffice there the scripture hath geuen him an ayde of the doctor which for because his office consisteth in teaching doctrine to thys ende y the pastor mighte not be driuen to spende so muche time in propounding the
things Dauid was a lawfull and godly magistrate and yet there slipt from him commaundementes whych were neither lawfull nor godly But he addeth that it is done for order and for decencie wythout superstition or suspition of it This is that whych is in controuersy and oughte to be proued and M. Doctor still taketh it as graunted and still faulteth in the petition of the principle wherwith he chargeth others The second reason is that they that weare thys apparell haue edified and do edify whych is as if a man would say the midwiues whych lied vnto Pharao did much good amongst the Israelites Ergo their lying did much good If he will say the comparison is not like because the one is not sinne in hys owne nature whereas the other is sinne then take thys One that stammereth and stutteth in his toÌ„g edifieth the people therfore stammering and stutting is good to edifie For what if the Lorde geue hys blessing vnto hys worde and to other good giftes whych he hath that preacheth and weareth a surplice c. Is it to be thought therfore that he liketh well of the wearing of that apparell This is to assigne the cause of a thing to that whych is not only not the cause thereof but some hinderance also and sâ—aking of that wherof it is supposed to be a cause For a man may rather reason that for as much as they which preache with surplice c. edify notwithstaÌ„ding that they therby driue away some and to other some giue â—â—spition of euill c. if they preached wythout wearing any suche thyng they should edify much more And yet if a man were assured to gaine a thousande by doing of that which may offend or cause to fall one brother he ought not to do it The third reason is that they which consent in wearing the surplices consent also in all other poynts of doctrine and they that do not weare it do not consent not so much as amongst them selues If this consent in the poynts of religion be in the surplice cope c. tel vs I beseche you whether in the matter or in y form or in what hid and vnknowne quality staÌ„deth it if it be in that the ministers vse all one apparell then it is maruell that this being so strong a bond to holde them togither in godly vnitie that it was neuer commauÌ„ded of Christ nor practised of prophets or apostles neuer of no other reformed churches I had thought wholy that those things which the lord appoynteth to maintaine kepe vnitie with especially the holy sacrameÌ„ts of baptisme of the lords supper had ben strong enough to haue first of all knit vs vnto the lord therfore also to his doctrine then one of vs to an other that the dissenting in such a ceremony as a surplice c. neither should nor could in those that pertaine vnto God breake the vnitie of the spirit whych is bouÌ„d wyth the bond of truth And although there be whych like not this apparell that thinke otherwise then either their brethren or then in dede they ought to do yet a man may finde greater dissent amongst those whych are vnited in surplice cope c. then there is amongst those which weare them not either with them selues or with them that weare them For how many there are that weare surplices which would be gladder to say a masse than to heare a sermon let all the world iudge And of those y do weare this apparel be otherwise wel minded to the gospel are ther not which wil wear the surplis not the cap other the wil weare both cap surplice but not the tippet yet a third sort the wil weare surplice cap tippet but not the cope It hath ben the maner alwayes of wise learned men to esteme of things by the causes not by the euent that especially in matters of religion for if they shuld be estemed of the euent who is there which wil not condemne the Israelites battell against Aye afterward against the Beniamites which notwithstanding the cause which was Gods wist and Gods commaundement iustifieth And therfore in a worde I answere the if there be such consent amongst those which like wel of this apparell and such iarres amongst those that like it not as M. doctor wold make the world beleue neither is the wearing of the surplice c. cause of the consent in them nor the not wearing cause of the disagrement in the other But as our knowledge loue is vnperfect here in this world so is our agrement consent of iudgemeÌ„t vnperfect And yet all these harde speaches of yours or vncharitable suspitions of papisme anabaptisme catharisine donatisme c. wherby you do as much as lieth in you to cut vs cleane of from you shal not be able so to estrange vs or seperate vs from you but that we wil by gods grace hold what so euer you hold well kepe that vnitie of spirit which is the bond of truth eueÌ„ with you M. doctor whom we suppose as appeareth by this your boke to haue set your selfe further from vs then numbers of those which although they be content to receiue the apparel beare with things yet wold haue ben loth to haue set downe the against the sinceritie of the gospel hinderance of reformation which you haue done The white apparell which is a note true representation of the glory purenes in the angels shuld be a lying signe preteÌ„ce of that which is not in the ministers which are miserable sinful men And our sauior Christ which was the minister of God pure from sin therfore metest to weare the marke of purenes vsed no such kinde of weede sauing only for the smal time wherin he wold geue to his disciples in the mount a tast of that glory which he shuld enioy for euer they with him where for the time his apparel appeared as white as snow And if it be mete that the ministers shuld represent the angels in their apparel it is much more mete that they shuld haue a paire of wings as the angels are described to haue to put them in remeÌ„brance of their readines quicknes to execute their office which may and ought to be in them then to weare white apparell whych is a token of purenes from sinne and infection and of a glorye whych neither they haue nor can haue nor ought so much as to desire to haue as long as they be in thys world And whereas the maintainers of this apparell haue for their greatest defence that it is a thyng meere ciuill to let passe that they confounde Ecclesiasticall orders wyth ciuill whych they can no more iustly do then to confounde the church wyth the common wealth I say to let that pas they do by thys meanes not only make it an Ecclesiastical ceremonie but also a matter of
if thou be neither Christ nor Elias nor of the Prophets why baptisest thou whych had bene no good argument if s Iohn might haue bene of some other function then of those whych were ordinarie in the churche and instituted of god And therefore S. Iohn to establish his singular and extraordinary function alledgeth the word of God wherby appeareth that as it was not lawfull to bring in any strange doctrine so was it not lawfull to teache the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function then was instituted by God. Let the whole practise of the churche vnder the lawe be loked vpon and it shall not be founde that any other Ecclesiasticall ministery was appoynted then those orders of highe priest and priests and Leuites c. whych were appoynted by the law of God if there were any raised extraordinarily the same had their calling confirmed from heauen either by signes or miracles or by plaine cleare testimonies of the mouthe of God or by extraordinarye exciting and mouings of the spirite of god So that it appeareth that the ministerie of the gospell and the functions thereof ought to be from heauen and of God and not inuented by the braine of men from heauen I say and heauenly because althoughe it be executed by earthly men the ministers also are chosen by men like vnto themselues yet because it is done by the word and institution of God that hath not only ordained that the word should be preached but hathe ordained also in what order and by whome it should be preached it may well be accounted to come from heauen and from God. Seeing therefore that these functions of the Archbishop and Archdeacon are not in the word of God it foloweth that they are of the earth so can do no good but much harme in the church And if any man will say the we do the church great iniurye because we doe tie her to a certaine nomber of orders of ministers as it were to a stake so that she may not deuise new functions I say that bothe the churche and Christ doth accuse him againe Christ estemeth him selfe to haue iniurie because that by thys meanes he is imagined not to haue bene careful and prouident enough for hys church in that he hath left the ministerie wherein doth consist the life of the church being that wherby it is begottē so raw and vnperfect that by permitting of it to the ordering of men there is a great danger of error whych he might haue set without all daunger by a word or two speaking The churche of the other side riseth against hym for that he maketh Christ les carefull for her then he was for that vnder the lawe For tell me in the whole volume of the Testament is there any kinde or degre of ministerie wherof God is not the certen and expres author was there euer any man I except Ieroboam and suche prophane men either so holy or so wise or of suche great knowledge that euer did so muche as dreame of instituting of a newe ministerie After the long wandring of the Arke in the wildernesse when it came to be placed in Ierusalem tell me if any besides the Leuites and Priestes the ordinarie ministers and the Prophets whych were immediatly stirred vp of God were found to haue ordained any office or title whych was not commaunded or whether there was at any time any thing added or enioyned to those offices of priesthode and Leuiteship whych was not by the lawe prescribed All men knowe that the Arke of Noah was a figure of the church Noah was both a wise and a godly man yet what doth the Lord leaue to his wisdom when as he appoynteth the matter the forme the length the bredth the heigth the woode the kinde and sorte of woode In the tabernacle the church is yet more expressedly shewed forth Moses that was the ouerseer of the worke was a wise and a godly man the artificers that wroughte it Bezalael and Aholiab most cunning workemen and yet obserue howe the Lorde leaueth nothing to their will but telleth not onlye of the boordes of the curtaines of the apparell but also of the barres of the rings of the strings of the hookes of the besomes of the snuffers and of the thyngs the matter and the forme Let vs come to the temple whych as it was more neare the time of Christ so it dothe more liuely expres the churche of God whych nowe is Salomon the wisest man that euer was or shall be dothe nothing in it neyther for the temple nor for the vesselles of the temple nor for the beautie of it but according to the forme that was enioyned hym as appeareth in the Kings and Chronicles And in the restoring of that temple Ezechiel is witnes howe the Angell by the commaundement of God doth parte by parte appoynt all to be done bothe in the temple and in the furniture thereof Nowe if the holy ghoste in Figures and Tropes dothe so carefully and as a man may speake curiously comprehende all things in the truthe it selfe howe muche more is it to be thought that he hath performed this If in the shadowes howe muche more in the body if he haue done this in earthly things and which are pearished how is it to be thought that he hath not performed it in heauenly and those whych abide for euer And then tell me what are those times of which it was sayd the Messias when he commeth will tell vs all Is it a like thyng that he whych did not only appoynt the temple and the tabernacle but the ornaments of them woulde not only neglecte the ornamentes of the churche but also that wythout the whych as we are borne in hand it can not long stande shall we thinke that he which remembred the barres there hathe forgotten the pillers heere or he that there remembred the pinnes did heere forget the master builders shoulde he there remember the besomes and heere forget Archbyshops if any had bene needefull there make mention of the snuffers to purge the lights and heere passe by the lightes them selues And to conclude that he shoulde make mention there of the moates and heere say nothing of the beames there recken vp the gnattes heere keepe silence of the Camels what is this else but that which Aristotle sayth ta mikra horan kai ta megala paroran that is to looke to small things and not to looke to great which if it can not fall into the Lorde let it be a shame to say that the cheefe piller and vpholder of the churche is not expressed in the scripture nor can not bee concluded of it Moreouer those ministeries without the which the churche is fully builded and brought to perfection and complete vnitie are not to be retayned in the churche but with out the ministeries of Archbishop c. the churche maye bee fully builded and broughte to perfection therefore these ministeries are not
to be retayned And that without these ministeries the Churche may be complete it appeareth by that which is in the Ephesians where it is sayde that Christe gaue some Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some pastors and Doctors to the restoring of the sayntes vnto the worke of the ministerie vntill wee all come to the vnitie of fayth and of the knowledge of the sonne of God and vnto a perfect man. The learned wryters haue thus reasoned agaynste the Pope that for so muche as Apostles Prophetes c. are sufficient for the building of the churche therefore there ought to be no Pope The argument and necessitie of the conclusion is as strong agaynst the Archbishoppe and all one For by the same reason that the Pope is cast away as a superfluous thing for that these offyces are able to make perfect the Churche is the Archbishoppe likewise throwne out of the Churche as a knobbe or some lumpe of fleshe which being no member of the body doth both burden it and disfigure it And as they say that God gaue no Pope to his church therefore the Pope can doe no good so we may well say God gaue no Archbishop to his church therefore the Archbishop can do no good Neyther dyd God geue any archdeacon to his church therefore he can not profite the church But it will be sayde that this argument followeth not because no mention is made heere of the deacon or of the elder which notwithstanding are bothe necessarye in the churche and therefore that there are functions profitable in the church whereof no mention is made heere But how easely doe all men know that the Apostle speaketh of those functions heere only which are conuersant in the worde and haue to doe with the preaching thereof and therefore made heere no mention of the deacon or elder It is sayde agayne that in the Epistle to the Corinth S. Paule speaketh only of Apostles Prophetes and Doctors leauing out Euangelistes and pastors and yet Euangelistes and pastors necessary and so although archbishops are not spoken of in the place to the Ephesians yet they may not be therfore shut out as vnnecessary But they that say so should haue considered that the diuersitie of the matter which the Apostle handleth in these two places bred a diuers kinde of speche For in the Epistle to the Corinthians going aboute to condemne the ambition of men which will thrust them selues into other mens callings and take vpon them to doe all them selues and to be as it were eye and eare and hande and all S. Paule proueth that the churche is a body wherein there are manye members and the same diuers one from an other and that it is not one member only And to proue that it was sufficient to say that he placed some Apostles some Prophets some Doctors without rehearsing all the kindes of functions But in the Epistle to the Ephesians meaning to shew the liberalitie of our sauiour Christ in geuing those which shoulde be able by doctrine and teaching to make perfect and absolute hys church it was necessary that he shoulde recken vp all those functions whereby that worke is done But how commeth it to passe that S. Paule neyther in the one place neyther in the other nor else where maketh mention of the archbishop which is sayd to be the cheefest piller and vnder setter of the church Now I heare what is sayde to this that vnder the pastor is contayned byshop he is not contayned but is the same that pastor How then forsoth say they an archbyshop is byshop well then of byshops some are archbyshops some are what Heere I see that they are hanged in the bush but I will helpe them Of byshops some are archbyshops some are by the common name byshops For if they answere not thus what haue they to say But what an absurd thing were that to say that S. Paule comprehended an archbyshop vnder a pastor or byshop which neyther was at that time nor certayne hundreth yeares after thys were not to deuide but to prophesie And how is it that they neuer marked that S. Paule speaketh of those functions which were in the church and not of those which should be afterwarde and of those that God had geuen and not of those which he would geue for the words are and he hath geuen Moreouer if so be vnder the pastor the apostle comprehended an archbyshop then the archbyshop is necessary and such as the church can not be without and commaunded of God and therefore not taken vp by the pollicie of the church for the time and countrey and other circumstances and such also as can not be put downe at the will of the church which is contrary to the iudgement of those which are the archbyshops patrones The last refuge is that the Apostle made mention of those functions which haue to do with the ministring of the word sacraments not of those which haue to do with order discipline Speake in good earnest had the Apostles nothing to doe with discipline order with what face can you take away the raines of gouernment out of the Apostles hands and put them in the Archbyshops and Archdeacons hands what a peruersenesse is thys that the ministeries inuented by men should be preferred to all the ministeries appoynted and commaunded of God. The Apostles forsoth haue in common with the Archbyshops and Archdeacons the power of ministring of the worde and of the sacraments of binding and losyng and thus farre as good as the Archbyshops and Archdeacons But for disciplyne and order the Apostles haue nothing to doe but herein Archbyshops and Archdeacons are aboue them and better then they Now syr if I would follow your vaine of making so many exclamations as Oh the impudencie Oh the insolencie with twentie other such great Ohs you see I haue occasion both heere and else where but I would not gladly declame especially when I should dispute nor make outcries in stead of reasons But to come to this distinction I had thought before this time that the apostles had bene the * cheefe builders in setting vp the church now I perceiue you make the archbyshops and archdeacons the cheefe builders and the apostles vnder carpenters or common masons to serue and to take the commaundement of the archbishop and archdeacon And wheras it is sayd that the ministers which S. Paule speaketh of are in the worde and sacramentes binding and loosing only and that there be other which are besides these occupyed in the order and disciplyne of the church of which number are archbyshops and archdeacons let vs marke a little what deepe diuinitie heere is And first of all I would gladly aske them with what aduise they haue layde on a greater burden and waight of the archbishops and archdeacons shoulders then the apostles were able to sustaine Secondarily I aske with what boldnesse and vpon the confidence of what giftes any man dare take vppon
him both that which the apostles did and more too Then I say that it is too too vnskilfully done to seperate order and discipline from them that haue the ministerie of the word in hand as though the church without archbyshops and archdeacons were a confused heape and a disordered lumpe when as S. Paule teacheth it to be without them a body consisting of all his partes and members comely knitte and ioyned together wherein nothing wanteth nor nothing is too much Doth it not pertayne to order that the apostle sayth that God hath set first apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers are not these wordes first second third differences of order if this be not order surely I know not what order is And yet neyther archbyshop nor archdeacon author of this and it was kept also before they were hatched Let vs see of disciplyne and gouernment which we may see to be committed to those which haue the preaching of the word and to others also which dyd not preach the worde when S. Paule sayth that the elders which gouerne wel are worthy double honor especially those which trauaile in the word Where he appoynteth the gouernement to the ministers of the worde and to those also that were not ministers of the worde And thereupon it followeth that the ministers of the church are not seuered one from an other as you seuer them because some haue the ministration of the worde and sacramentes only and some with the administration of the sacramentes and word haue also the gouernement and disciplyne in their handes but cleane contrariwise S. Paule distinguisheth them and sheweth that all the ministers in the church haue the gouermnent but all haue not the worde to handle so that he distinguisheth the ministerie into that whiche is occupyed in the worde and gouernment and into that which is occupyed in the gouernment only But in this distinction you do not only forget S. Paule but you forget your selfe For if S. Paule speake in that place of those that meddle with the ministring of the word and sacraments only why doth the bishop which is one of the ministers that S. Paule speaketh of being the same that pastor is why I say doth he meddle with the discipline and order of the church seeing that belongeth not to him by your distinction why doth also the archbishop whome you say is a bishop meddle with it and thus you see you neede no other aduersary then your selfe to confute you And least any man shoulde say I confute mine owne shadow I must let hym vnderstand that there is a pamphlet in Latine which is called the booke of the doctors which goeth from hande to hande and especially so farre as they coulde bring to passe to those only that they thought to fauoure that opynion in the which booke all these answeres vnto the place of the Ephesians are contayned and almost all that which is comprehended in thys defence of archbishops and archdeacons with other things also which are founde in this booke of M. Doctors and therefore it is very likely that he hauing no other way to vente hys rapsodies and rakings togither thought he would bring them to light after thys sorte but how much better had it bene that thys myshapen thing had had the mothers wombe for the graue or being brought out had bene hidden as the former is in some bench hole or darke place where it should neuer haue seene any light nor no mans eye should euer haue looked of it And thus all these cloudes being scattered by the sunne of truth you see that the place to the Ephesians standeth strong agaynst the archbishop and archdeacon Now will I reason also after thys sorte out of the place of the Ephesians and Corinthyans ioyned together There is no function but hathe giftes fitte and apte to discharge it annexed and geuen vnto it whereuppon the Apostle by a Metonomy doth call the Apostles Prophets c. giftes because they haue alwayes giftes ioyned with them Thys being graunted as no man can deny it I reason thus Those functions only are suffycient for the church which haue all the gifts needefull eyther for the mynistring of the worde and sacramentes or for the gouernement of the churche but all these functions reckened of S. Paule to the Ephesians with those which S. Paule calleth antilepseis and kyberneseis which are the deacons and elders haue the gifts needeful eyther for the gouernment of the church eyther else for the ministering of the worde and sacramentes therefore these functions only are sufficient for the church for it is a superfluous thing to make more offices then there be giftes to furnish them for so they that shoulde haue them shoulde rather be idols then officers And therefore for as much as there is no gift which falleth not into some of these functions it is altogether a vaine and vnprofitable thing to bring more offices and functions into the church besides these And so it may be thus reasoned If men may make and erect new ministeries they must eyther geue giftes for to discharge them or assure men that they shall haue giftes of God whereby they may be able to answere them But they can neyther geue giftes nor assure men of any giftes necessary to discharge those functions therefore they may make or erect no new ministeries Last of all I conclude agaynst these made and deuised ministeries of archbishops and archdeacons after this sort If men may adde ministeries they may also take away for those both belong to one authoritie but they can not take away those ministeries that God hath placed in his church therefore they can not adde to those that are placed in the church And this foundation I thought first to lay or euer I entred into M. Doctors not reasons but authorities not of God but of men in confuting of which there will fall forth also other arguments agaynst both these offices of archbishop and archdeacon Now I will come to the examining of your witnesses whereof some of them are so bored in the eares and branded in their foreheades that no man neede to feare any credite they shall get before any iudge wheresoeuer or before whomsoeuer they come but in the Romishe courte and the papistes only excepted For to let go Polidore Virgil because whatsoeuer hee sayth hee sayth of the credite of another lette vs come to Clement which is the author of this you speake And what is he is there any so blinde that knoweth not that this was nothing lesse then Clement of whome S. Paule speaketh and which * some thinke was the first bishop of Rome ordayned by Peter and not rather a wicked helhounde into whom the Lord had sent sathan to be a lying spirit in his mouth to deceiue them for their vnthankfull receiuing of the gospell And he must witnesse for the archbishop a worthy witnesse For as all that popishe hierarchie came out of the bottomlesse pitte of
must depose that the name of an archbyshop is not antychristian of whome as of Clement that went before and Anicetus which followeth after the common prouerbe may be verifyed Aske my fellow if I be a theefe And although the answerer be ashamed of hym and sayth therefore he will omit him yet euen very neede dryueth hym to bring hym in and to make hym speake the vttermost hee can And thys honest man sayth that Iames was the first archbyshop of Ierusalem But Eusebius sayth Iames was byshop not archbyshop of Ierusalem and appoynted by the apostles And in an other place he sayth that the apostles dyd appoynt after hys death Simeon the sonne of Cleophas byshop of Ierusalem And Ireneus sayeth that the apostles in all places appoynted byshops vnto the churches whereby it may appeare what an idle dreame it is of Clement Volusianus and Anacletus eyther that Peter dyd thys by his owne authoritie or that the primitiue churche was euer staynes wyth these ambytious tytles of patriarche prymate metropolytane or archbyshoppe when as the storyes make mention that thoroughe out euery churche not chery prouince not by Peter or Paule but by apostles a byshop not an archbyshop was appoynted And heere you put me in remembraunce of an other argument agaynst the archbyshop which I will frame after thys sorte If there shoulde be any archbyshop many place the same shoulde be eyther in respect of the persone or minister and hys excellencie or in respecte of the magnificence of the place but the most excellent mynisters that euer were in the most famous places were no archbyshops but byshops only therefore there is no cause why there shoulde be any archbyshop For if there were euer mynister of a congregation worthy that was Iames if there were euer any citte that ought to haue thys honor as that the mynister of it should haue a more honorable title then the mynisters of other cities and townes that was Ierusalem where the sonne of God preached and from whence the gospell issued out vnto all places And afterwarde that Ierusalem decayed and the church there Antioche was a place where the notablest men were that euer haue bene since which also deserued great honoure for that there the * disciples were first called christians but neyther was that called the first and cheefest church neyther the mynisters of it called the Arche or principal byshoppes And Eusebius to declare that thys order was firme and durable sheweth that S. Iohn the Apostle which ouer lyued the residue of the Apostles ordayned byshops in euery church These two Anacletus and Anicetus you say are suspected why do you say suspected when as they haue bene conuinced and condemned and stande vppon the pillery with the cause of forgerie written in great letters that he which runneth may reade Some of the papistes them selues haue suspected them but those which mayntayne the truth haue condemned them as full of popery full of blasphemy and as those in whome was the very spirit of contradiction to the Apostles and their doctryne And do you marke what you say when you say that these are but suspected Thus much you say that it is suspected or in doubt whether the whole body of poperie and antichristianitie were in the Apostles time or sone after or no for Clement was in the Apostles time and their scholer and so you leaue it in dout whether the apostles appoynted and were the authors of popery or no. I thinke if euer you had red the Epistles you woulde neuer haue cited their authorities nor haue spoken so fauourably of them as you doe You come after to the councel of Nice wherin I wil not sticke with you that you say it was holden the CCC xxx yeare of the Lorde when as it maye appeare by Eusebius hys Computation that it was holden Anno Domini CCC xx and heere you take so greate a leape that it is enoughe to breake the archbishoppes necke to skippe at once CCC yeares that is from the tyme of the apostles vntill the time of the councell of Nice wythout any testimony of any either father or storie of faithe and credite whych maketh once mention of an archbishop What no mention of hym in Theophilus byshop of Antioche none in Ignatius none in Clemens Alexandrinus none in Iustin Martyr in Ireneus in Tertullian in Origine in Cyprian none in all those olde Historiographers out of the whych Eusebius gathereth hys story Was it for his basenes and smalnes that he could not be seene amongst the byshops elders and deacons being the cheefe and principall of them all can the Ceder of Lebanon be hid amongst the boxe trees Aristotle in his Rhethorike ad Theodecten sayeth that it is a token of contempt to forget the name of an other belike therefore if there were any archbishop he had no chaire in the church but was as it semeth digging at the metalles For otherwise they that haue filled their bookes wyth the often mentioning of bishops would haue no doubt remembred him But let vs heare what the councell of Nice hath for these titles In the. 6. canon mention is made of a metropolitane bishop what is that to the metropolitane whych is now either to the name or to the office of the office it shal appeare afterwards In the name I thinke there is a great differēce betwene a metropolitane bishop metropolitane of England or of al England A Metropolitane bishop was nothing els but a bishop of that place which it pleased the Emperor or magistrate to make the chefe citie of the diocese or shire and as for thys name it maketh no more difference betwene bishop and bishop then when I say a minister of London and a minister of Nuington There is no man that is well aduised whych will gather of thys saying that there is as great difference in preheminence betweene those two ministers as is betweene London and Nuington for his office and preheminence we shall see hereafter There are alledged to proue the names of archbyshops patriarkes archdeacons the. 13. 25. 26. and. 27. Canons of the councel of Nece For the. 25. 26. 27. there are no such canons of that councell and although there be a thirtenthe canon there is no worde of patriarke or archdeacon there contained And I maruell wyth what shame you can thruste vppon vs these counterfaite canons whych come out of the popes minte yea and whych are not to be found Theodoret sayeth that there are but twentie Canons of the councell of Neece and those twentie are in the tome of the councels and in those there is no mention of any patriarke archdeacon archbishop Ruffine also remembreth 22. Canons very little differing from those other twenty but in lengthe and in none of those are found any of these names of archbishop archdeacon patriarke And it is as lawfull for M. Harding to alledge the. 44. canon of the coūcell of Nece to proue the supremacie
witnesses are Popes whereof the first and best ordained that if the Metropolitane did not fetche hys pall at the apostolike sea of Rome wythin three monthes after he were consecrated that then he should lose his dignity as Gratian witnesseth in the decrees y he ascribeth vnto Damasus I doubt not therfore that this is but a forger vpon whom you would father the archdeacon for that Damasus in whose place you put this forger liued An. 387. at what time the sea of Rome had no suche tirannye as thys and other things which are fathered of him do pretēd And if this be enough to proue archdeacons I can with better witnes proue subdeacons acoluthes exorcistes lectores ostiarios these dothe Eusebius make mention of an auncienter wryter then any you bring and out of Ruffine Theodoret Sozomen Socrates c. monks almost in euery page And heere vpon it is more lawfull for me to conclude that monkes subdeacons exorcistes acoluthes ostiarij lectores are necessary ecclesiasticall orders in the church as you conclude the necessity of the archdeacon I perceiue you care not whether the archdeacon fall or no that you bestow so little coste of hym and leaue him so nakedly And if I woulde be but halfe so holde in coniectures and diuinations as you are I coulde say that thys sleighte handling of the archdeacon and sweating so muche aboute the archbyshoppe is thervpon y you woid be loth to come frō being deane to be an archdeacon you liue in some hope of being archbyshop but I will not enter so farre And surely for any thing that I see you might haue trussed vp the archbyshop as shorte as you do the archdeacon For they stand vpon one pinne and those reasons whych establishe the one establishe the other wherevpon also commeth to passe that all those reasons whych were before alledged against the archbishop may be drawn against the archdeacon hauing therfore before proued the vnlawfulnes of them I will heere set downe the difference betweene those archdeacons that were in times past and those whych are nowe whereby it may appeare they are nothing like but in name They were no ministers as appeareth in Sozomen oures are They were tied to a certaine churche and were called archdeacon of suche a congregation or churche oures are tied to none but are called archdeacons of suche a shire They were chosen by all the Deacons of the churche where they be archdeacons oures are appoynted by one man and whych is no deacon They were subiect to the minister of the word oures are aboue them and rule ouer them It was counted to them great arrogancie if they preferred thēselues to any minister or elder of the churche oures will not take the best ministers of the churche as their equalles If therfore archdeacons will haue any benefite by the archdeacons of olde time it is meete they shoulde content them selues wyth that place whych they were in As for the office of a deane as it is vsed wyth vs it is therfore vnlawfull for that he being minister hathe no seuerall charge or congregation appoynted wherein he maye exercise hys ministerie and for that he is ruler and as it were maister of diuers other ministers in hys colledge whych likewise haue no seueral charges of congregations and for that whych is most intollerable bothe he hym selfe oftentimes hauing a seuerall churche or benefice as they call it is vnder the coloure of hys deaneship absent from hys churche and suffereth also those that are vnderneathe hym to be likewise absent from their churches And whereas M. Doctor alleageth S. Augustine to proue thys office to be auncient in deede the name is there founde but besides the name not one propertye of that Deane whych we haue For Augustine speaking of the monkes of those dayes sayeth that the money which they gate wyth the labor of their hands they gaue to their deane which did prouide them meate and drinke and cloth and all things necessary for them so that the monkes shoulde not be drawne away from their studies and meditations throughe the care of worldly things so that thys deane whych he speaketh of was seruaunt and steward and cater to the monkes and therfore only called deane because he was steward and cater to ten monkes Now let it be seene what Augustines deane maketh for the deane whych is nowe and what faith and trust M. Doctor vseth in reciting of the olde fathers And vnto the ende that these testimonies might be more autenticall haue some waight in them M. Doctor addeth that hetherto antichrist had not inuaded the seat of Rome You shall haue much a do to proue that antichrist had not inuaded the sea of Rome when your Clement Anaclete Anicete and Damasus wrote Nay it is moste certaine that then he had possessed it But what is that to the purpose althoughe there was no one singulare head appeared or lifted vp yet corruption of doctrine and of the sacraments hurtful ceremonies dominion and pompe of the cleargye newe orders and functions of the ministerie whych were the handes that pulled hym the fete whych brought him the shoulders that lifted and heaued him vp into that seate were in the church Neither while you doe thus speake doe you seeme to remember that this monster needed nine monethes but almoste nine hundreth yeares to be framed and fashioned or euer he could wyth all his partes be brought to light And although the Loouer of thys antichristian building were not set vp yet the foundations therof being secretely and vnder the ground laid in the apostles times you might easely know that in those times that you speake of the building was wonderfully aduaūced and growne very highe And being a very dangerous thing to ground any order or pollicy of the church vpon men at all whych in deede ought to haue their standing vpon the doctrine and orders of the apostles I wil shew what great iniurie M. Doctor doth to sende vs for our examples and paternes of gouernment to these times whych he doth direct vs vnto Eusebius oute of Egesippus wryteth that as long as the apostles liued the churche remained a pure virgin for that if there were any that went about to corrupt the holy rule that was preached they did it in the darke as it were digging vnderneath the earth But after the death of the apostles and the generation was past whych God vouchsaued to heare the deuine wisedome wyth their owne eares then the placing of wicked error began to come into the church Clement also in a certaine place to confirme that there was corruption of doctrine immediately after the apostles times alledgeth the prouerbe that there are fewe sonnes like their fathers And Socrates sayeth of the church of Rome and Alexandria which were the most famous churches in the apostles times that about the yeare 430. the Romaine and Alexandrian byshops leauing the sacred function were degenerate to a
good common wealthes wherein many haue lyke power and authoritie And further if because there is one king in a lande aboue all he will conclude there should be one archbyshop ouer all I say as I haue sayde that it is not agaynst any word of God which I know although it be inconuenient but that there may be one Cesar ouer all the world and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not say that there may be one archbyshop ouer all the world Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole where he woulde fayne hyde hym selfe and with hym all the ambition tyranny and excesse of authoritie which is ioyned wyth these functions of archbyshoppe and byshoppe as they are now vsed and thys hys hole is that all the mynisters are equall with byshops and archbyshops as touching the mynisterie of the worde and sacramentes but not as touching pollicie and gouernment The papistes vse the very selfe same distinction for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion and other their hierarchie Maister Doctor hath put out the marke and conceled the name of the papistes and so with a little chaunge of wordes as it were with certayne new coloures he woulde deceiue vs For the papistes saye that euery syr Iohn or hedge priest hath as great authoritie to sacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead and to mynister the sacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath but for gouernment and for order the byshoppe is aboue a priest the archbyshoppe aboue a byshoppe and the Pope aboue them all But I haue declared before out of the scriptures how vayne a distinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the byshops were equall one to an other so he sayth that to euery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke not only to feede with the worde and sacramentes but to rule and gouerne not as they which shall make any accoumpte vnto an archbyshop or be iudged of hym but as they which can not bee iudged of any but of god And Ierome vpon Titus sayeth that the elder or mynister dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byshops the churche whereof he was elder or mynister After followeth M. Caluin a great patrone forsoth of the archbyshop or of thys kynde of byshop which is vsed amongst vs heere in Englande And heere to passe ouer your straunge cytations and quotations which you make to put your answerer to payne sending hym sometymes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustines workes to Chrysostomes workes to Cyrill to Maister Foxe and heere sending hym to the viij chapter of the institutions as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke the sentence of some bodye else withoute anye examination whereby it seemeth that you were lothe that euer any man should answere your booke letting I say all thys passe what maketh thys eyther to proue that there shoulde bee one archbyshoppe ouer all the mynisters in the prouince or one byshoppe ouer all in the diocese that amongst twelue that were gathered together into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette And that it may appeare what superioritie it is which is lawfull amongst the mynisters and what it is that M. Caluin speaketh of what also the fathers and councels doe meane when they geue more to the byshoppe of any one church then to the elder of the same church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fancie any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and deacons of euery particulare church and in the meetinges and companies of the mynisters or elders of dyuers churches there was one chosen by the voyces and suffrages of them all or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishmentes and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was geuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases whiche also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonishe or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receiue admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled which thing we do not deny may be but affirme that it is fitte necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion For it were an absurde hearing that many should at once attempt to speake neyther coulde it be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoynt when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers mete together and in so great dyuersitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church there be founde that excell in memory facilitie of tong and expedition or quicknesse to dispatche matters more then the rest and therefore it is fitt that the brethren that haue that dexteritie shoulde especially be preferred vnto thys office that the action may be the better and more spedely made an ende of And if any man will call thys a rule or presidentship and hym that executeth thys office a president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernor or moderator but gouernor or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be to be censured by the company of the brethren as wel as others if he be iudged any way faulty And that after that action ended meeting dissolued he sitte hym downe in hys olde place and set hym selfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that thys gouernment or presidentship or what so euer lyke name you will geue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take an other if an other bee thought meeter Of thys order and pollicy of the church if we will see a liuely image and perfect paterne let vs set before our eyes the most auncient and gospel like church that euer was or shall be In the actes the church being gathered together for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming together with what cautions and qualities they ought to
that in his garden he shall neuer finde the herbe that wil heale him And because that the scriptures when they make for our cause receiue this answer commonly that they serued but for the apostles times and M. Caluins authority will wey nothing as I thinke wyth M. Doctor when he is alledged by vs against hym I wil send hym to the Greke Scholiaste whych vpon this place of Titus sayth after this sort He would not speaking of s Paule haue the whole I le of Crete ministred and gouerned by one but that euery one should haue hys proper charge and care for so should Titus haue a lighter labor and the people that are gouerned should enioy greater attendance of the pastor whilest he that teacheth them doth not run about the gouernment of many congregations but attendeth vnto one and garnisheth that Now M. Doctor may see by this that Titus by the iudgement of the Scholiaste was not as he fansieth the archbyshop of all Crete but that he had one flocke whervpon for the time he was there he attended And that where it is sayd he ordained ministers it is nothing else but that he was the cheefe and the moderator in the election of the ministers as I haue declared before by many examples And it is no maruell although the rest graunted hym thys preheminence when he had both most excellent gifts and was a degree aboue the pastors being an Euangelist Vnto the place of Timothe where he willeth him not to admit an accusation against an elder vnder two or three witnesses I answer as I haue done before to the place of Titus that is that as the ordination of the pastors is attributed vnto Titus and Timothe because they gouerned and moderated that action and were the first in it so also is the deposing or other censures of them and that for as much as he wryteth hys epistles vnto Timothe Titus he telleth them how they should behaue them selues in their office and doth not shut out other from this censure and iudgement And it is more agreable to the inscription of the epistles that he should say admit not thou or ordain not thou wryting vnto one then if he should say ordaine not ye or admit not ye as if he should wryte to many for so should neyther the ending agree wyth the beginning nor the midst wyth them both And if this be a good rule that because Paul biddeth Timothe and Titus to iudge of the faults of the pastors and to ordain pastors therfore none else did but they Then whereas S. Paule biddeth Timothe that he should commaund teach that godlines is profitable to all things admonisheth him to be an example of the whole flocke by your reason he wil haue no other of the mynisters of Ephesus or of the I le of Creta to teach that doctrine or to be examples to their flockes an hundreth such things in the Epistles of Timothe and Titus which although they be there particularly directed vnto Timothe and Titus yet do they agree are common to them with all other mynisters yea sometimes vnto the whole flocke As for Epiphanius it is knowne of what authoritie he is in this place when as by Aerius sides he goeth about to pricke at the Apostle whilest he goeth about to confute the Apostle which maketh a distinction and difference betwene those which the Apostle maketh one that is a byshop and an elder and to spare the credite of Epiphanius it were better lay that opinion vpon some Pseudepiphanius that is to say counterfaite which we may do not without great probabilitie seeing Augustine sayth that the true Epiphanius vttereth all after a story fashion and doth not vse any disputation or reasoning for the truth agaynst the falshode and thys Epiphanius is very full of argumentes and reasons the choyse whereof M. Doctor hath taken And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose Caluin and other godly wryters to proue that the mynister is vnderstanded by the word elder or presbiter he keepeth hys olde wont by bringing stickes into the woode and prouing alwayes that which no man denyeth and yet with the mynister of the word he also vnderstandeth the elder of the church which ruleth and doth not labor in the word But therein is not the matter for I doe graunt that by presbiter the mynister of the word is vnderstanded yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the admonition for want of logicke for you vtter great skill your selfe in wryting which keepe no order but confound your reader in that thing which euen the common logicke of the countrey which is reason might haue directed you in For what a confusion of times is thys to begin with Cyprian and then come to Ierome and Chrysostome and after to the scripture and backe agayne to Ignatius that was before Cyprian which times are ill disposed of you and that in a matter wherein it stode you vpon to haue obserued the order of the tymes But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian hys place for when he sayth the byshop hath rule ouer all he meaneth no more all in the prouince then in all the worlde but meaneth that flocke congregation whereof he is byshop or mynister And when he calleth hym prince of the priestes although the title be to excessiue and bigge condemned by Cyprian and the councell of Carthage yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocese as we take it or of the prouince then he meaneth the Prince of all the priestes in the world but those fellow mynisters and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particulare church and congregation whereof he was byshop as the great churches haue for the most part both elders which gouerne only and mynisters also to ayde one an other and the principalitie that hee which they called the byshop had ouer the rest hath bene before at large declared But M. Doctor doth not remember that whilest hee thus reasoneth for the authoritie of the byshoppe hee ouerthroweth hys archbyshoppe quite and cleane for Ignatius will haue none aboue the byshop but Christ and hee will haue an archbyshop I see a man can not well serue two maisters but eyther he must displease the one and please the other or by pleasing of one offend the other For M. Doctor would fayne please and vpholde both and yet hys proufes are such that euery prop that he setteth vnder one is an axe to strike at the other But that M. D. delyteth alwayes wher he might fetch at the fountaine to be raking in ditches he needed not to haue gone to Iustin Martyr for Proestos when as S. Paule calleth the mynisters Elders by thys title And if thys place of Iustin make for an archbyshop then in stead of an archbyshop in euery prouince we
Egipt cryed in the councell of Calcedon that he was no bishop it is to be obserued that which the Emperoures Theodosius and Valentinian wryte vnto Dioscorus bishop of Alexandria that he had commaunded Theodoret byshop of Cyrus that he should kepe hym selfe vnto hys owne church only wherby it appeareth that he medled in moe churches then was mete he should Besides that wanteth not suspition the he speaketh this of him selfe especially when he sayth the there was not in all those 800. churches one tare the is one hypocrite or euil maÌ„ Now that it may appeare what great lykelyhoode there is betwene thys Theodoret and our Lord byshops and archbyshops it is to be considered which he wryteth of hym selfe in the Epistle vnto Leo that is that he hauing bene 26. yeares byshop was knowne of all that dwelt in those partes that he had neuer house of hys owne nor field nor halfepennie not so much as a place to be buryed in but had willingly contented hym selfe with a poore estate belyke he had a very leane archbyshoppricke And if the fat morsels of our byshopprickes archbishopprickes were taken employed to their vses of maintenance of the pore of the mynisters and of the vniuersities which are the seede of the mynisterie I thincke the heate of the disputation and contention for archbyshops and bishops would be cooled Now good reader thou hearest what M. Doctor hath bene able to take together out of the olde fathers which he sayth are so playne in thys matter and yet can shew nothing to the purpose Heare also what he sayth out of the wryters of our age all which he sayth except one or two are of hys iudgement and allow well of thys distinction of degrees Maister Caluin first is cited to proue those offices of archbyshop primate patriarche the names whereof he can not abyde and as for hym he approueth only that there should be some â–ª which when difficult causes arise which can not bee ended in the particulare churches might referre the matters to sinodes and prouinciall councels and which myght do the offices which I haue spoken of before of gathering voyces c. But that he lyketh not of those dominations and large iurisdictions or at all of the byshoppes or archbyshops which we haue now it may appeare playnly enough both in that place when as he will haue hys wordes drawen to no other then the olde byshoppes shutting out thereby the byshoppes that now are as also in other places and namely vpon the Philippians where reasoning agaynst thys distinction betwene pastor and byshop and shewing that geuing the name of byshop to one man only in a church was the occasion why he afterward vsurped domynation ouer the rest he sayth after thys sort In deede I graunt sayth he as the dispositions and manners of men are order can not stande amongst the mynisters of the woorde vnlesse one be ouer the rest I meane sayth he of euery seuerall and singuler body not of a whole prouince much lesse of the whole worlde Now if you will needes haue M. Caluins archbyshop you must not haue hym neyther ouer a prouince nor diocese but only ouer one singuler and particuler congregation How much better therefore were it for you to seeke some other shelter against the storme then maister Caluins which will not suffer you by any meanes to couer your selfe vnder hys winges but thrusteth you out alwayes as soone as you enter vpon him forceably But heere I can not let passe M. Doctors ill dealing which recyting so much of maister Caluin cutteth hym of in the waste and leaueth quite out that which made agaynst hym that is which maister Caluin â—ayth in these wordes Although sayth he in thys disputacion it may not be passed ouer that this office of archbyshop or patriarke was most rarely and seldome vsed which dealing semeth to proceede of a very euill conscience Then followeth Hemingius who you say approueth these degrees of archbishop metropolitane byshop archdeacon for so you must needes meane when you say he approueth these degrees or els you say nothing for there vpon is the question Now how vntruely you speake let it be iudged by that which followeth * First he sayth that our sauiour Christ in S. Luke distinguisheth and putteth a difference betwene the office of a Prince and the office of the minister of the church leauing domynion to the Princes and taking it altogether from the mynisters Here you see not only how he is agaynst you in your exposition in the place of S. Luke which wold haue it nothing else but a prohibition of ambitioÌ„ but also how at a word he cutteth the throte of your archbyshop and byshop as it is now vsed And afterward speaking of the churches of Denmarke he sayth they haue Christ for their head for the outwarde discipline they haue magistrates to punish with the sword for to exercise the Ecclesiasticall disciplyne they haue bishops pastors doctors which may keepe men vnder with the word without vsing any corporall punishment Here is no mention of archbyshops Primates metropolitanes And although he sheweth that they kepe the distinction betwene byshops and ministers against whych there hath bene before spoken yet he sayth that the authority which they haue is as the authority of a father not as the power of a maister whych is far otherwise heere For the condition of many seruaunts vnder their maisters is much more free then the condition of a minister vnder hys byshop And afterward he sheweth wherin that authority or dignity of the byshop ouer the minister lyeth that is in exhorting of him in chiding of hym as he doth the lay people and yet he will haue also the minister although not with such authority after a modest sort to do the same vnto the byshop And so he concludeth that they retain these orders notwithstanding the anabaptists Now let the reader iudge whether Hemingius be truely or faithfully alledged or no or whether Hemingius do say that they haue in their church archbishops primates metropolitanes archdeacons or whether the byshops in the churches of Denmarke are any thing like oures For I will omit that he speaketh there against all pomp in the ministery all worldly superiority or highnes because I loue not to wryte out whole pages as M. Doctor doth out of other mens wrytings to helpe to make vp a boke M. doctor closeth vp this matter wyth M. Foxe but eyther for feare that the place should be found that there might be answer or for feare that M. Foxe should giue me the solution whych hath giuen you the obiection he wold neither quote the place of the boke nor the boke it self he hauing wrytten diuers You caÌ„ not speake so much good of M. Foxe whych I will not willingly subscribe vnto And if it be any declaration of good will and of honor that one beareth to an other to read that whych he wryteth I thinke I haue
red more of him then you For I haue red ouer his boke of Martyrs and so I thinke did neuer you For if you had red so diligently in M. Foxe as you haue ben hasty to snatch at this place he would haue taught you the forgery of these Epistles whereout you fetch your authorities and would haue shewed you that the distinguishing of the orders of metropolitanes bishops and other degrees whych you say sometimes had their beginnings in the apostles times somtimes you can not tell whē were not in Higinus time which was a. 180. yeres after Christ I perceiue you fear M. Foxe is an ennemy vnto your archbyshop and primate therfore it seemeth you went about to corrupt hym wyth hys praise and to seeke to drawe hym if it were possible vnto the archbyshop and if not yet at the least that he would be no ennemy if he would not nor could not be his frend You make me suspect that your praise is not harty but pretended because you do so often so bitterly speake against all those that will not receiue the cap and surplice and other ceremonies wherof M. Fox declareth his great misliking For answer vnto the place because I remēber it not nor meane not to read ouer the whole boke to seeke it I say first as I said before that there may be some thing before or after which may geue the solution to this place especially seeing M. Foxe in another place prouing the Epistles of Stephanus to be counterfet he vseth thys reason because the fifthe Canon of the sayd Epistles solemnely entreateth of the difference betwene primates metropolitanes and archbyshops whych distinction sayth he of titles and degrees sauor more of ambition thē persecution Moreouer I say that M. Foxe wryting a story doth take greater paine and loketh more diligently to declare what is done and in what time and by whom then how iustly or vniustly how conueniently or inconueniently it is done Last of all if any thing be spoken there to the hinderance of the sincerity of the gospell I am well assured that M. Foxe whych hath trauailed so much and so profitably to that end will not haue hys authority or name therin to bring any preiudice Now wil I also wyne with you and leaue it to the iudgement of the indifferent reader how well out of the scriptures councels wryters old and new you haue proued either the lawfulnes at all of the names of archbishops patriarches archdeacons primates or of the lawfulnes of the office of them and of byshops whych be in our times And for as much as I haue purposed to answer in one place that which is scattered in diuers I will heere answere halfe a shete of paper whych is annexed of late vnto thys boke put forthe in the name and vnder the credite of the B. of Salisbury Wherin I wil say nothyng of those byting sharpe words which are giuen partly in the beginning when he calleth the propounders of the proposition whych concerneth archbyshops and archdeacons nouices partly in the end when he calleth them children and the doctrine of the gospell wantonnes c. If he had liued for hys learning and grauitye and otherwyse good desertes of the church in defending the cause therof agaynst the papistes we coulde haue easely borne it at hys handes nowe he is deade and layde vp in peace it were agaynste all humanitye to dygge or to breake vp hys graue only I wil leaue it to the consideration of the reader vpon those things whych are alledged to iudge whether it be any wantonnes or noueltye whych is confirmed by so graue testimonyes of the auncient worde of god Vnto the place of the. 4. of the Ephesians before alledged he answeareth cleane contrary to that whych M. Doctor sayth that we haue nowe neyther Apostles nor Euangelists nor Prophets wherevppon he wold conclude that that place is no perfect paterne of the ministery in the church In deede it is true we haue not neyther is it nedefull that wee should It was therfore sufficient that there were once and for a time so that the wante of those nowe is no cause whye the minysteries there recited be not sufficient for the accomplyshment and full fynishing of the church nor cause whye anye other minysteries should be added besydes those whych are there recyted Afterward he saith that neither byshop nor elder are reckned in that place The pastor is there reckened vp and I haue shewed that the pastor and byshop are all one and are but dyuers names to signifye one thyng And as for those elders whych doe only gouerne they are made mention of in other places the apostles purpose being to recken vp here only those minysteries whych are conuersant in the worde as I haue before alledged and therefore the byshop and elder whych wyth gouernment teache also are there contained After that he sayeth there is no catechista if there be a pastor or as some thynke Doctor there is one whych bothe can and ought to instruct the youth neyther doth it pertayne to any other in the churche and publykely to teache the youth in the rudiments of religion then vnto eyther the pastor or doctor how so euer in some times and places they haue made a seuerall office of it And where he sayth that there is neyther deacon nor reader mentioned for the deacon I haue answeared that s Paul speaketh there only of those functiōs whych are occupyed both in teachyng and gouernyng the churches and therfore there was no place there to speake of a deacon and as for the reader it is no such office in the churche whych the minister may not doe And if eyther he haue not leysure or his strength and voyce wil not serue hym first to read some long time and afterwarde to preache it is an easye matter to appoynt some of the elders or deacons or some other graue man in the church to that purpose as it hathe bene practised in the churches in times past and is in the churches reformed in oure dayes without making any new order or office of the ministery Where he sayth that by thys reason we should haue no churches pulpits schooles nor vniuersities it is first easely answeared that S. Paule speaketh not in the. 4. to the Ephesians of all things necessary for the churche but only of all necessary ecclesiasticall functions whych do both teach gouerne in the church and then I haue already shewed that there were both churches and pulpits As for scholes and vniuersities it is sufficient commaundement of them in that it is commaunded that bothe the magistrates and pastors should be learned for he that commaundeth that they shoulde be learned commaundeth those things and those meanes wherby they may most conueniently come to that learning And we haue also examples of them commended vnto vs in the old Testament As in the boke of the Iudges when Debora commendeth the vniuersity men and those
whych handled the pen of the wryter that they came out to helpe in the battell against the enemies of god And in the boke of Samuel and of the Kings where Nayothe and Bethel Ierycho and a place beyond Iordan are specified places whych were scholes or vniuersities where the schollers of the Prophets were brought vp in the feare of God and good learning The continuaunce of whych scholes and vniuersities amongste the people of God maye be easely gathered of that whych S. Luke wryteth in the Actes where it may appeare that in Ierusalem there were certen Colledges appoynted for seuerall countrey men so that there was one Colledge to receiue the Iewes and Proselites whych came out of Cilicia an other for those that came out of Alexandria c. to study at Ierusalem And if any man be able to shew such euidence for archbyshops and archdeacons as these are for vniuersities and scholes I wil not deny but it is as lawfull to haue them as these Furthermore he sayeth that the church is not gouerned by names but by offices so is it in deede And if the office of an archbyshop or archdeacon can be shewed we will not striue for the name but for so much as all the nedefull offices of the church togither wyth their names are mentioned in the scripture it is truly sayde that bothe the offices and names of archbyshop and archdeacon being not only not contained in them but also condēned ought to be banished out of the churche Last of all he sayth that Anacletus if there be any waight in his words nameth an archb I haue before shewed what waighte there is in his woordes and I refuse not that he be weyghed wyth the byshops owne weightes whych he geueth vs in the handling of the article of the supremacye and in the. 223. and 224. pages by the whych waightes appeareth that thys Anacletus is not only lyght but a plaine counterfait The second reason whych sayeth that the churche of God vnder the lawe had all thyngs needefull appoynted by the commaundement of God the byshop sayeth he knoweth not what could be concluded of it I haue shewed before that there is nothyng les ment then that the church vnder the gospell should haue all those thyngs that that church had or shoulde haue nothing whych that had not but thys therevpon is concluded that the Lord whych was so carefull for that as not to omit the least would not be so careles for this church vnder the gospel as to omit the greatest And where he sayeth that there was then whych was called highe priest and was ouer all the rest he did well know that the cause therof was because he was a figure of Christe and dyd represent vnto the people the cheefetye and superioritye of oure sauioure Christe whych was to come and that oure sauioure Christe being come there is nowe no cause why there should be any such preheminence geuen vnto one and further that it is vnlawfull that there shoulde be any suche vnles it be lawfull to haue one head ▪ byshop ouer all the church For it is knowne that that prieste was the heade priest ouer all the whole Churche whych was during hys time vnto our sauioure Christe And as for those titles cheefe of the sinagogue cheefe of the sanctuary cheefe of the house of God I say that that maketh muche agaynst archbyshoppes and archdeacons for when as in steade of the sinagogue and of the sanctuarie and of the house of God or Temple are come particulare churches and congregations by this reason it foloweth that there shoulde be some cheefe not in euery prouince or diocese but in euery congregation and in dede so ought there to be certen cheefe in euery cōgregation whych should gouerne and rule the rest And as for the cheefe of the families of the Leuites and cheefe of the families of the priestes the same was obserued in all other tribes of Israell as a ciuile thyng And by all these princes ouer euery tribe and family as by the Prince of the whole land God did as it were by diuers liuely pictures unprint in their vnderstanding the cheefety and domination of our sauior Christ Moreouer these orders and pollicies touching the distribution of the offices of the Leuites and priests and touching the appoyntment of their gouernors were done of Dauid by the aduise of the prophets Gad Nathan whych receiued of the Lord by commaundement that whych they deluiered to Dauid And if so be that it can be shewed that archbyshops and archdeacons came into the church by any commaundement of the Lord then thys allegation hath some force but now being not only not commaunded but also as I haue shewed forbiddē euery man doth see that this reason hath no place but serueth to the vtter ouerthrow of the archbyshop and archdeacon For if Dauid being such a notable personage and as it were an angell of God durst not take vpon him to bring into the church any orders or pollicies not only not against the word of God but not without a precise word and commaundement of God who shall dare to be so bold as to take vpon him the institution of the cheefe office of the church and to alter the pollicy that God hath established by hys seruauntes the apostles And where the byshop sayth it is knowne and confessed that there wanted many things to the perfection of the church of the Iewes truely I do not know nor can not confes that that church wanted any thing to the perfection of that estate whych the Lord would haue them be in vntill the comming of our sauior Christ and if there were any thing wanting it was not for want of good lawes and pollicies wherof the question is but for want of due execution of them whych we speake not of For the two last reasons against the archbyshop and archdeacon although I be well acquainted wyth diuers that fauor this cause yet I did neuer heare them before in my life and I beleeue they cannot be proued to be hys reasons whose they are supposed to be and whych did set downe that proposition that the byshop confuteth Notwithstanding the former of these two seemeth to haue a good probability and to be grounded of that place of Logicke that sheweth that according as the subiect or substance of any thing is excellent so are those things that are annexed and adioyned vnto it But because I wold the simplest should vnderstand what is sayd or written I will willingly abstaine from such reasons the termes wherof are not easely perceiued but of those whych be learned And as for the answer whych the byshop maketh that in place of apostles prophets the gifts of tongues of healing and of gouernment are brought in vniuersities scholes byshops and archbyshops for scholes and vniuersities I haue shewed they haue bene alwayes and therfore can not come in to supply the roume of the apostles and prophets And
in hys Diocese hath the ordering of all matters within the circuite thereof and therfore the meaning of the Councell to bee that if there be any affaires that touche the whole Churche many lande that the Byshoppes shoulde doe nothing without making the Metropolitane priuy as also the Metropolitane myght doe nothing without making the other Byshops a counsell of that which he attempted which maister Doctor doth cleane leaue out And if thys authoritie which the councell geueth to the Metropolitane being nothing so excessiue as the authorytie of our Metropolitanes now had not bene ouer much or had bene iustifiable what needed men father thys Canon which was ordayned in thys councell of the Apostles for the seeking falsly of the name of the Apostles to geue creadite vnto thys Canon doth cary with it a note of euill and of shame which they woulde haue couered as it were with the garment of the Apostles authoritie And in the hundreth twentie and three page to that which Maister Bucer sayeth that in the Churches there hath bene one which hath beene cheefe ouer the rest of the mynisters if he meane one cheefe in euery particulare churche or one cheefe ouer the mynisters of dyuers churches meeting at one Synode and cheefe for the time and for such respectes as I haue before shewed then I am of that mynde which he is And if he meane any other cheefe or after any other sort I deny that any such cheefety was from the Apostles tymes or that any suche cheefetie pleaseth the holye ghoste whereof I haue before shewed the proufes And wheras M. Bucer seemeth to allow that the name of a byshop which the holy ghost expresly geueth to all the ministers of the word indifferently was appropriated to certen cheefe gouernoures of the church I haue before shewed by dyuers reasons how that was not done without great presumption and manifest daunger and in the end great hurt to the church And if M. Doctor delyght thus to oppose mens authoritie to the authoritie of the holy ghost and to the reasons which are grounded out of the scripture M. Caluin doth openly misselyke of the making of that name proper and peculiar to certayne which the holy ghost maketh common to moe And whereas of M. Caluines wordes which sayth that there be degrees of honor in the mynistery M. Doctor would gather an archbyshop if he had vnderstanded that an Apostle is aboue an Euangelist an Euangelist aboue a pastor a pastor aboue a doctor and he aboue an elder that ruleth only he needed neuer to haue gone to the popish Hierarchie to seeke hys dyuersities of degrees which he myght haue founde in S. Paule And whereas vpon M. Caluines words which sayeth that Paule was one of the cheefe amongst the Apostles he would seeme to conclude an archbyshop amongst the byshops he should haue remembred that S. Paules cheeftie amongst the Apostles consisted not in hauing any authoritie or domynion ouer the rest but in labouring and suffering more then the rest and in giftes more excellent then the rest Now where as hee sayeth that we desire to pull the rule from others that the rule myght be in oure handes and we myght doe what we list and that we seeke to wythdraw oure selues from controlement of Prince and Byshoppe and all Firste hee may learne if hee will that wee desire no other authoritie then that which is to the edifying of the church and which is grounded of the word of God which if any mynister shall abuse to hys gayne or ambytion then he ought to abyde not only the controlement of the other mynisters yea of the brethren but also further the punishment of the Magistrates according to the quantitie of the faulte And seeing you charge the brethren so sore you must be put in remembrance that thys vnreasonable authoritie ouer the rest of the mynisters and clergy came to the byshops and archbyshops when as the Pope dyd exempt hys shauelinges from the obedience subiection and iurisdiction of the Princes now therfore that we be ready to geue that subiection vnto the Prince and offer our selues to the Princes correction in things wherein we shall doe a misse doe you thincke it an vnreasonable thing that we desire to bee disburdened of the byshops and archbyshops yoke which the Pope hath layde vpon our neckes And in the. 207. page vnto the middest of the 214. page thys matter is agayne handled where first M. Doctor would draw the place of Galathians the second to proue an archbyshop and that by a false translation for hoi dokountes which is they that seemed or appeared he hath translated they the are the cheefe although the place of the Galathians may be thought of some not so pregnant nor so full agaynst the archbyshop yet all must needes confesse that it maketh more against him then for him For S. Paules purpose is to proue there that he was not inferioure to any of the Apostles bringeth one argument thereof that he had not his gospel from them but from Christ immediatly therfore if the apostles that were estemed most of and supposed by the Galathians others to be the cheefe had no superioritie ouer S. Paule but were equall wyth hym it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the rest And if there needed no one of the Apostles to be ruler ouer the rest there seemeth to be no neede that one byshoppe should rule ouer the rest But that I run not backe to that I haue handled before I will not heere so much vrge the place as I will not doe also that of the Hebrues which followeth and yet the argument is stronger then that M. Doctor coulde answere For if the wryter to the Hebrues doe proue our sauiour Christes vocation to be iust and lawfull because hys calling was contayned in the scriptures as appeareth in the 5. and 6. verse then it followeth that the calling of the archbishop which is not comprehended there is neither iust nor lawfull For that no man sayth the apostle taketh that honour vnto hym selfe but he that is called of god c. But I say hauing before sufficiently spoken of the reasons which ouerthrow the archbyshoppe I will let passe these and other places answearing only that which M. Doctor bringeth for the establishment of them He sayth therefore afterwarde that although one man be not able to be byshop ouer all the church yet he may be byshop ouer a whole diocese or of a prouince Now if I wold say the one is as impossible as the other for proofe thereof alleage that which the Philosophers say that as there are no degrees in that which is infinite so that of thinges which are infinite one thing can not be more infinite then an other so there are no degrees in impossibilitie that of thinges which are impossible one thyng shoulde bee more impossible then an other If I shoulde thus reason I thincke I shoulde putte you to some payne
bowes because the Paganes dyd vse so and that they should not rest from their laboures those dayes that the paganes dyd that they should not keepe the first day of euery moneth as they dyd * An other councell decreed that the christians should not celebrate feastes on the birth dayes of the Martyrs because it was the maner of the heathen whereby it appeareth that both of singulare men and of councels in making or abolyshing of Ceremonies heede hath beene taken that the Christians shoulde not be lyke vnto the Idolaters no not in those things which of them selues are most indifferent to be vsed or not vsed It were not harde to shewe the same considerations in the seuerall things which are mentioned of in thys admonition as for example in the ceremonies of prayer which is heere to bee handled wee reade that Tertullian would not haue the Christians sitte after they had prayed because the idolaters dyd so but hauing shewed thys in generall to be the pollicy of God first and of hys people afterwarde to put as muche difference as can be commodiously betwene the people of God and others whych are not I shal not neede to shewe the same in the particulares Furthermore as the wisedome of God hathe thoughte it the best way to keepe hys people from infection of idolatry to make them most vnlike the idolaters so hath the same wisedome of God thought good that to kepe hys people in the vnity of the truth there is no better way then that they should be moste like one to an other and that as much as possibly may be they shuld haue all the same ceremonies And therfore S. Paule to establishe this order in the church of Corinth that they shoulde make their gatherings for the pore vpon the firste day of the Saboth whych is our sunday alleageth thys for a reason that he had so ordained in other churches so that as children of one father and seruauntes of one family he will haue all the churches not only haue one diet in that they haue one word but also weare as it were one liuery in vsing the same ceremonies Thys rule did the great councell of Nice follow when it ordained y where certaine at the feast of Pentecost did pray kneeling that they should pray standing the reason wherof is added whych is that one custome oughte to be kepte throughout all the churches It is true that the diuersity of ceremonies ought not to cause the churches to dissent one wyth an other but yet it maketh much to the auoyding of dissention that there be amongst them an vnity not only in doctrine but also in Ceremonies Nowe we see plainely that as the forme of oure seruice and Leyturgie commeth to neare that of the papistes so it is farre different from that of other churches reformed and therfore in bothe these respectes to be amended An other faulte there is in the whole seruice or Lyturgie of Englande for that it maintaineth an vnpreaching ministery and so consequently an vnlawfull ministery I say it maintaineth not so muche in that it appoynteth a number of psalmes and other prayers and chapters to be red whych may occupye the time whych is to be spent in preaching wherin notwythstanding it ought to haue bene more wary considering that the deuil vnder this coloure of long prayer did thus in the kingdome of antichriste banish preaching I say not so much in that poynt as for that it requireth necessarily nothyng to be done by the minister whych a childe of ten yeare olde can not doe as well and as lawfully as that man wherewyth the boke contenteth it selfe Neyther can it be shifted in saying this is done for want of able men to be ministers for it may be easely answeared that first the want of sufficient ministers ought to be no cause for men to breake the vnchāgeable lawes of God whych be that none maye be made minister of the churche whych can not teache that none minister the sacraments whych do not preache For althoughe it might be graunted whych thing I woulde not denye no not when there are enough sufficient ministers that they may appoynt some godly graue man whych can do nothing else but reade to be a reader in the churche yet that may not be graunted that they maye make of one that can doe nothyng but reade a minister of the gospell or one whych may haue power to minister the sacramentes Besides that howe can they say that it is for want of sufficient ministers when as there be put out of the ministerye men that be able to serue God in that calling and those put in their roumes whych are not able when there are numbers also whych are fit to serue and neuer sought for nor once required to take any ministery vpon them If therfore it were lawfull to plead want of able ministers for this dumbe ministery whych is altogither vnlawfull yet woulde thys plea neuer be good vntill suche time as bothe those were restored whych are put out and all other sought forth and called vpon whych are fit for that purpose Againe it can not be sayde iustly that they haue taken these reading ministers vntill suche time as better may be gotten for if the church could procure able ministers and should desire that they mighte be ordained ouer them they can not obtaine that considering that these reading ministers haue a free hold and an estate for terme of their liues in those churches of the whych they are such ministers so that by thys meanes the sheepe are not only committed to an idoll shepheard I might say a wolfe and speake no otherwise then Aug. speaketh in that a not preaching minister hath entrance into the church but the dore also is shutte vpon him and sparred against any able minister that might haply be found oute There is a third fault whych likewise appeareth almost in the whole body of this seruice and Liturgie of England and that is that the profit whych might haue come by it vnto the people is not reaped Whereof the cause is for that he whych readeth is not in some places heard and in the most places not vnderstāded of the people through the distance of place betweene the people and the minister so that a great part of the people can not of knowledge tell whether he hathe curssed them or blessed them whether he hath red in Latine or in English all the whych riseth vpon the words of the boke of seruice whych are that the minister should stand in the accustomed place For therevpon the minister in saying morning and euening prayer sitteth in the chauncell wyth hys backe to the people as thoughe he had some secreate talke wyth God whych the people myghte not heare And herevpon it is likewise that after morning prayer for saying a nother number of prayers he climeth vp to the further end of the chauncel and runneth as farre from the people as the wall wil
let him as though there were some variance betwene the people and the minister or as though he were afraide of some infection of plage And in dede it renueth the memory of the Leuitical priesthode whych did withdrawe himselfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinnes of the people Likewise for Mariage he cometh backe againe into the body of the church and for baptisme vnto the church dore what comelines what decency what edifying is thys Decencie I say in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and after that sort where he can worst be harde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the primitiue church both the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sitting amongste the rest to the ende he myght be the better heard rose not that only but that he stode in the midst of the people that his voyce might as much as might be come indifferently to all their eares and so standing both prayed and preached Now if it be said for the chapters Letany there is commaundement geuen that they shuld be red in the body of the church in deede it is true and therof is easely perceiued this disorder whych is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end and partly in the further end of the chauncell For seeing that those are red in the body of the church that the people may both heare and vnderstand what is red what shuld be the cause why the rest should be red farther of vnles it be that either those things are not to be heard of them or at the least not so necessary for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or midst of the church And if it be further sayd that the boke leaueth that to the discretion of the ordinarye and that he may reforme it if there be any thing amis then it is easely answered again that besides that it is against reason that the commoditye and edifying of the church should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduise and discretion it should be well or euell wyth the church Besides this I say we see by experience of the disorders whych are in many churches and dioceses in thys behalfe how that if it were lawfull to commit such authority vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill quitten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience wherof being so easely sene and so easely reformed there is notwythstanding so greate and so generall an abuse And the end of the order in the boke is to be obserued which is to kepe the praiers in the accustomed place of the church chappell or chauncell whych how maketh it to edification And thus for the generall faultes committed either in the whole Liturgy or in the most part of it both that I may haue no nede to repete the same in the particulares and that I be not compelled alwayes to enter a new disputation so ofte as M. Doctor sayeth very vnskilfully and vnlike a deuine whence so euer thys or that come so it be not euill it may be well established in the church of Christ Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whych is prescribed wherin the authors of the admonition declare that their meaning is not to disalow of prescript seruice of prayer but of thys forme that we haue For they expound themselues in the additions vnto the first part of the admonition It is not to any purpose that M. Doctor setteth himselfe to proue that there may be a prescript order of prayer by Iustine Martyrs testimony which notwithstanding hath not one word of prescript forme of prayers only he sayth there were prayers He sayth in dede the auncient fathers say that there hathe bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the churches although they do say so yet all men may vnderstand easely that M. doctor speaketh thys rather by coniecture or that he hath heard other mē say so for so much as that Doctor whych he hathe chosen out to speake for all the rest hath no such thing as he fathereth on him He sayeth that after they haue baptised they pray for them selues for hym that is baptised and for all men that they may be mete to learne the truth and to expres it in their honest conuersation and that they be found to kepe the commaundements that they may attaine to eternal life but is this to say the there was a prescript forme of prayer when he sheweth nothing els but the chefe poynts vpon the whych they conceiued their prayers If you had alleaged thys to proue what were the matters or principall poyntes that the primitiue church vsed to pray for you had alleaged thys to purpose but to alleage it for a profe of a prescript forme of prayer when there is not there mētioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer whych is the asking of our petitions in the name and through the intercession of our sauior Christ without the whych there is not nor cannot be any prayer argueth that either you litle know what the forme of prayer is or that you thought as you charge the authors of the admonition so often that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination But for as muche as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the church let that go thys that I haue sayd is to shew that when M. Doctor hapneth of a good cause whych is very seldome in this boke yet then he marreth it in the handling After he affirmeth that there can be nothing shewed in the whole boke whych is not agreeable vnto the word of God. I am very lothe to enter into this field albeit M. Doctor dothe thus prouoke me bothe because the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking when they vnderstand that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynte as for that some fewe professors of the gospell being priuate men boldened vpon such treatises take such wayes sometimes and breake forth into such speaches as are not meete nor conuenient Notwythstanding my duetie of defending the truthe and loue whych I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrey constraineth me being thus prouoked to speake a fewe woordes more particularly of the fourme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof doe appeare it may please the Queenes maiestie and her honourable Councell wyth those of the Parliamente whome the Lorde hathe vsed as singulare instrumentes to deliuer thys realme from the hotte furnaice and iron yoke of the popishe Egipte to procure also that the corruptions whych we haue broughte from them as those wysh whych we being so deepely dide and stained haue not so easely shaken
of certen that haue bene killed thereby you mighte as well bryng in a prayer that men may not haue falles frō their horses may not fal into the hands of robbers may not fall into waters and a number such more sodaine deathes wherwith a greater number are taken away then by thundrings or lightnings and such like and so there should be neuer any end of begging these earthly cōmodityes whych is contrary to the forme of prayer appoynted by our sauioure Christe And wheras you alledge the petition of the Lords prayer deliuer vs from euill to proue this prayer against Thunder c. besides that all the commodities and discommodities of thys life are prayed for and prayed against in that petition whereby we desire oure daily breade it is very straunge to apply that to the thunder that is vnderstanded of the deuill as the article apo tou ponerou dothe declare And that it is a maruellous cōclusion that for so much as we ought daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from the Deuill Ergo we oughte daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from thunder It is one thing to correct Magnificat and an other thing to shew the abuse of it And therfore I see no cause why you should vse this allusion betwene Magnificat significat vnles it be for that you purposing to set out all your learning in thys boke wold not so much as forget an old rotten prouerb whych trotted amongst the monkes in their cloisters of whome I may iustly say whych Tullie sayd in a nother thyng Nec quicquam ingenium potest monasterium that is the cloister coulde neuer bring forthe any witty thing for heere although there be Rythmus yet it is sine ratione As these are diuers things more then ought to be conueniently so wante there some things in the prayers There are prayers set forthe to be sayde in the common calamities and vniuersal scourges of the realme as plague famine c. and in dede so it ought to be by the word of God ioyned wyth a publike fast commaūded not only when we are in any calamity but also when any the churches round about vs or in any countrey receiue any generall plague or greeuous chastisement at the Lordes hand But as suche prayers are needefull whereby we beg release from our distresses so there ought to be as necessary prayers of thāks geuing whē we haue receiued those things at the Lords hand whych we asked in our prayers And thus much touching the matter of the prayers eyther not altogither sound or else too much or too little Concerning the fourme there is also to be misliked A great cause wherof is the folowing of the forme vsed in Popery against whych I haue before spoken For whilest that seruice was set in many poynts as a paterne of this it cometh to pas that in stead of suche prayers as the primitiue churches haue vsed those that be reformed now vse we haue diuers short cuts shreddings whych may be better called wishes then prayers And that no man thinke that thys is some idle fancie that it is no matter of weight what forme of prayer we vse so that the prayers be good it must be vnderstanded that as it is not sufficient to preach the same doctrine whych our sauior Christ hys apostles haue preached vnles the same forme of doctrine and of teaching be likewise kept so is it not enough that the matter of our prayer be such as is in the word of God vnles that the forme also be agreeable vnto the formes of prayers in the scripture Now we haue no such formes in the scripture as that we shuld pray in .ij. or .iij. lines and thē after hauing red a while some other thing come and pray as much more and so to the .xx. and .xxx. time wyth pauses betweene If a man shoulde come to a Prince and keepe suche order in making hys petitions vnto hym that hauing very many things to demaund after he had demaunded one thing he would stay a long time and then demaunde an other and so the thirde the prince myght well thinke that eyther he came to aske before he knew what he had nede of or that he had forgotten some pece of hys sute or that he were distracted in hys vnderstanding or some other such like cause of the disorder of his supplication And therfore how much more conuenient were it that according to the manner of the reformed churches first the minister wyth an hūble and general confession of faults shuld desire the assistance of the Lord for the frutefull handling and receiuing of the word of God and then after that we haue heard the Lord speake vnto vs in hys worde by hys minister the church should likewise speake vnto the Lord and present all those petitions and sutes at once bothe for the whole churche and for the Prince and all other estates whych shall be thought needefull And if any will say that there are short prayers found in the Actes it may be answeared that S. Luke doth not expres the whole prayers at large but only set downe the summes of them and their cheefe poyntes And further it may be answeared that alwayes those praiers were continued together and not cut off and shred into diuers small peeces An other fault is that all the people are appoynted in diuers places to saye after the minister wherby not only the time is vnprofitably wasted a confused voyce of the people one speaking after an other caused but an opinion bredde in their heads that those only be their prayers whych they say and pronounce with their owne mouthes whych causeth them to geue the les heede to the rest of the prayers whych they reherse not after the minister whych notwithstanding are as well their prayers as those whych they pronounce after the minister otherwise then the order whych is left vnto the church of God dothe beare For God hath ordained the minister to thys ende that as in publike meetings he only is the mouthe of the Lorde from hym to the people euen so he ought to be only the mouthe of the people from them vnto the Lorde and that all the people shoulde attende to that whych is sayde by the minister and in the ende bothe declare their consent to that whych is sayde and there hope that it shall so be and come to pas whych is prayed by the worde Amen as S. Paule declareth in the Epistle to the Corinthians And Iustine Martyr sheweth to haue bene the custome of the churches in hys time Although these blots in the Common prayer be such as may easely enough appeare vnto any whych is not wedded to a preiudicate opinion and that there is no great difficultye in thys matter yet I knowe that thys treatise of prayer will be subiect to many reprehensions and that there will not be wanting some probable coloures also wherby
extremity for the doing whereof the orders that God hath set that it should be done in the congregation by the mynister of the gospell are broken Yes verely And I will further say that although that the infants which dye without baptisme should be assuredly damned which is most false yet ought not the orders which God hath set in his church to be broken after thys sort For as the saluation of men ought to be deare vnto vs so the glory of God which consisteth in that hys orders be kept ought to bee much more deare that if at any tyme the controuersy could be betwene hys glory and our saluation our saluation ought to fall that hys glory may stand Now in the 187. page M. Doctor answeareth heereunto that thys implyeth no more that the saluation is tyed to the sacramentes then when it is taught that infants must be baptysed and not tary vntill they come to the age of discretion Which how truely it is spoken when as the one hath ground of the scripture the other hath none the one approued by the continuall and almost the generall practise of the church the other vsed in the corrupt and rotten estate thereof let all men iudge Therefore for so much as the mynistery of the worde and sacramentes goe together that the mynistery of the word may not be committed vnto women and for that thys euill custome hath rysen fyrst of a false vnderstanding of the scripture and then of a false conclusion of that vntrue vnderstanding which is that they can not be saued which are not baptised and for that the authors them selues of that error did neuer seeke no remedy of the mischeefe in womens or priuate baptim And last of all for that if there were any remedy agaynst that mischefe in such kynde of baptisme yet it ought not to be vsed being agaynst the institution of God hys glory I conclude that the priuate baptisme and by women is vtterly vnlawfull There followeth the priuate communion which is found fault with both for the place wherein it is mynistred for the small number of communicants which are admitted by the bocke of seruice Touching the place before is spoken sufficiently it reasteth to consider of the number But before I come to that I will speake some thing of the causes beginning of receiuing in houses of the mynistring of the Communion vnto sicke folkes It is not to be denyed but that thys abuse is very auncient and was in Iustin Martyrs tyme in Tertullians and Cyprians tyme euen as also there were other abuses crept into the supper of the Lord and that very grose as the mingling of water with wine and therein also a necessitie and great mystery placed as it may appeare both by Iustine Martyr and Cyprian Which I therefore by the way doe admonish the reader of that the antiquity of thys abuse of pryuate communion bee not preiudiciall to the truthe no more then the mingling of water with that opynion of necessitie that those fathers had of it is or oughte to bee preiudiciall to that that wee vse in mynistring the cuppe with pure wine according to the instytution I say therefore that thys abuse was auncient and rose vpon these causes First of all in the prymitiue church the dyscipline of the churche was so seuere and so extreame that if any which professed the truth and were of the body of the church did through infirmitie deny the truth ioyned hym self vnto the idolatrous seruice although he repenting came againe vnto the church yet was he not receiued to the communion of the Lords supper any more And yet lying in extremitie of sickenes and redy to depart thys lyfe if hee dyd require the communion in token that the church had forgeuen the faulte and was reconcyled altogether vnto that person that had so fallen they graunted that he might be partaker of it as may appeare by the story of Serapion Another cause was that which was before alleaged which is the false opynion which they had conceiued that all those were condemned that receiued not the supper of the Lord therfore when as those that were as they called thē cathecumeni which is yong nouices in relygion neuer admitted to the supper or yong children fell sicke daungerously they mynistred the supper of the Lord vnto them least they should want their voyage victuall as they termed it which abuse notwithstanding was neither so auncient as the other nor so generall And there wanted not good men which declared their mislyking and dyd decree agaynst both the abuses agaynst all maner communicating in priuate houses As in the councell of * Laodicea it was ordayned that neyther byshop nor elder shuld make any oblation that was mynister any communion in houses Besides therfore that I haue before shewed the vnlawfulnesse generally of mynistring the sacrament in priuate places seeing that the custome of mynistring thys supper vnto the sicke rose vpon corrupt causes and rotten foundations considering also God be praysed in these times there are none dryuen by feare to renounce the truth whereupon any such excommunication should ensue which in the extremitie of sicknesse should be mitigated after thys sort for no man now that is in extreame sicknesse is cast downe or else assaulted with thys temptation that he is cut of from the church I say these things considered it followeth that thys mynistring of communion in priuate houses to the sicke is vnlawfull as that which rose vpon euil groundes if it were lawfull yet that now in these times of peace when the sicke are not excommunicated there is no vse of it And so it appeareth how little the custome of the olde church doth helpe M. Doctor in thys poynt And as for that he sayth Peter Martyr Bucer doe allow the communion exhibited to the sicke persons when he sheweth that he shal haue answer For wher he saith he hath declared it in an other treatise either the Printer hath left out the treatise or M. Doc. wonderfully forgetteth hym selfe or else he meaneth some odde thing that he hath written layd vp in some corner of his study For surely there is no such saying in all hys boke before nor yet after so far as I can finde Now remayneth to be spoken of the number of communicants that there is fault in the appoynting of the seruice booke not only for that it admitteth in the tyme of plage that one with the mynister may celebrate the supper of the Lord in the house but for that it ordayneth a communion in the church when of a great number which assemble there it admitteth three or fower the abuse and inconuenience whereof may thus bee considered The holy sacrament of the supper of the Lorde is not only a seale and confirmation of the promises of God vnto vs but also a profession of our coniunction as well with Christ our sauiour and with
constancy that all the rest of the day should be kept holy in such sorte as men should be debarred of their bodely labors and of exercising their daily vocations Nowe where as maister Doctor citeth Augustine and Ierome to proue that in the Churches in their times there were holy dayes kepte besydes the Lordes day he myght haue also cited Ignatius and Tertullian and Cyprian whych are of greater auncienty and would haue made more for the credit of hys cause seeing he measureth all hys truthe almoste throughe the whole booke by the croked measure and yarde of time For it is not to be denyed but thys keeping of holy dayes especially of the Easter and Pentecost are very auncient and that these holy dayes for the remembrance of Martyrs were vsed of long time But these abuses were no auncienter then other were groser also then thys was as I haue before declared and were easy further to be shewed if nede required And therefore I appeale from these examples to the scriptures and to the examples of the perfectest church that euer was whych was that in the apostles times And yet also I haue to say that the obseruation of those feastes first of all was much better then of later times For Socrates confessing that neyther our sauioure Christ nor the apostles dyd decree or institute any holy dayes or lay any yoke of bondage vppon the neckes of those whych came to the preaching addeth further that they did vse first to obserue the holy dayes by custom and that as euery man was disposed at home Whych thing if it had remained in that freedome that it was done by custome and not by commaundement at the will of euery one and not by constraint it had bene much better then it is nowe and had not drawne suche daungers vpon the posteritye as did after ensue and we haue the experience of As touching M. Bucers M. Bullingers Illiricus allowance of them if they meane such a celebration of them as that in those dayes the people may be assembled and those partes of the scriptures which concerne them whose remembrance is solemnised red and expounded and yet men not debarred after from their daily works it is so much the les matter if otherwise that good leaue they giue the churches to dissent from them in that poynt I do take it graunted vnto me being by the grace of God one of the churche Althoughe as touching M. Bullenger it is to be obserued since the time that he wrote that vppon the Romaines there are about .xxxv. yeares sythens whych time although he holde still that the feastes dedicated vnto the Lord as of the Natiuity Easter and Pentecost may be kept yet he denyeth flatly that it is lawfull to keepe holy the dayes of the apostles as it appeareth in the confession of the Tigurine church ioyned wyth others As for M. Caluine as the practise of hym and the church where he lyued was and is to admit no one holy day besides the Lords day so can it not be shewed out of any parte of hys workes as I thynke that he approued those holy dayes whych are nowe in question He sayeth in deede in hys Institution that he wil not condemne those churches whych vse them No more do we the church of Englande neyther in thys nor in other things whych are meere to be reformed For it is one thing to mislike another thyng to cōdemne and it is one thing to condemne some thing in the church and an other thing to condemn the church for it And as for the places cited out of the epistles to the Galathians and Collossians there is no mention of any holy dayes eyther to saintes or to any other And it appeareth also that he defendeth not other churches but the church of Geneua and answeareth not to those whych obiect against the keping of saintes dayes or any holy dayes as they are called besides the Lords day but against those whych would not haue the Lords day kept still as a day of rest from bodely labor as it may appeare both by hys place vpon the Collossians and especially in that whych is alleaged out of hys Institutions And that he meaneth nothing les then suche holy dayes as you take vpon you to defende it may appeare first in the place of the Colossians where he sayeth that the dayes of rest whych are vsed of them are vsed for pollicy sake Nowe it is well knowne that as it is pollicy and a way to preserue the estate of things and to keepe thē in a good continuance and succes that as well the beastes as the men whych labor sixe dayes should rest the seuenth so it tendeth to no pollicy nor wealth of the people or preseruation of good order that there should be so many dayes wherin men should cease from worke being a thyng whych breedeth idlenesse and consequently pouerty besides other disorders and vices whych alwayes goe in company wyth idlenes And in the place of hys Institutions he declareth hym selfe yet more plainly when he sayeth that those odde holy dayes then are wythout superstition when they be ordained only for the obseruing of discipline and order Whereby he geueth to vnderstand that he would haue them no further holy dayes then for the time whych is bestowed in the exercise of the discipline and order of the churche and that for the rest they shoulde be altogither as other dayes free to be laboured in And so it appeareth that the holy dayes ascribed to Saintes by the seruice booke is a iust cause why a man can not safely without exception subscribe vnto the seruice Nowe wheras maister Doctor sayeth it maketh no matter whether these things be taken out of the Portuis so they be good c. I haue proued first they are not good then if they were yet being not necessary abused horribly by the papistes other being as good and better then they ought not to remaine in the church And as for Ambrose saying all truthe of whome so euer it be sayde is of the holy ghoste it I were disposed to moue questions I coulde demaund of him whych careth not of whome he haue the truthe so he haue it what our sauioure Christe meant to refuse the testimony of Deuils when they gaue a cleare testimony that he was the sonne of God and the holy one and what S. Paule ment to be angry and to take it so greuously that the Pithonisse sayd he and his companion were the seruaunts of the high God whych preached vnto them the way of saluation Heere was truthe and yet reiected and I would knowe whether maister Doctor would say that these spake by the spirite of god Thus whilest wythout all iudgement he snatcheth heere a sentence and there another out of the Doctors and that of the worste as if a man should of purpose chuse oute the drosse and leaue the siluer wythin a while he wil make no great difference not
of the learned doth thereby declare that it is not suffycient that he be well instructed in the mystery of saluation but that he haue also the gift of vtterance Afterwarde M. Doctor asketh whether S. Paule dyd not preache to the Romaines when he wrote vnto them No forsooth hys wryting to the Romaines was no more preaching then S. Paules hand or hys penne which were hys instrumentes to wryte with were hys tongue or hys lyghtes or any other partes which were hys instrumentes to speake with And S. Paule hym selfe wryting to the Romaines putteth a difference betwene hys wryting hys preaching when although he wrote vnto them yet he excuseth hym selfe that he could not come to preach vnto them saying that he was ready as much as lay in hym to preach vnto them But sayeth he was not the reading of Deuteronomie preaching No more then the reading of Erodus Heere be good proufes It is generally denyed that reading is preaching and Mayster Doctoure without any proufe taketh it for graunted that the reading of Deuteronomie is preaching All men see how pityfull reasons these be And in the. 162. page he alledgeth that in the Actes S. Luke seemeth to meane by reading preaching But what dealing is thys vpon a seeming and coniecture to set down so certenly and vndoubtedly that reading is preaching then there is no one letter nor sillable that vpholdeth any such coniecture For S. Iames sayth that Moyses meaning the law red euery Saboth through out euery towne in the sinagogue was also preached or had those that preached it setting forth the order which was vsed in all the churches amongst the people of God that alwayes when they met vpon the Saboth dayes they had the scriptures first redde and then preached of and expounded which is that the authors of the Admonition doe desire and therefore complayne for that after reading followeth no preaching which any indifferent man may easely vnderstand by that that they say In the olde tyme the worde was preached now it is supposed to be sufficient if it be red But Mayster Doctor heareth with hys left eare and readeth with hys left eye as though hys right eye were pulled out or hys ryght care cut of For otherwyse the other wordes which they haue touching thys matter myght easely haue bene expoūded by the argumēt matter which they handle Of mynistring of the sacramentes in priuate places by women I haue spoken before there remayneth therefore only in thys section to speake of the deacons that they ought not to minister the sacramēt Which although I haue done partly before partly afterward will do when I shall shew that it appertayneth not to them to minister the worde and therefore not the sacramentes being things the mynistery whereof ought not to be seuered yet I will in a worde answere those arguments that M. Doctor bryngeth for to proue that they may mynister the sacramentes Whereof the fyrst is that Phillip in the. 8. of the Acts baptysed There is great doubt amongst wryters which Phillip that was that S. Luke mentioneth in the eyght chapter of the Acts of the Apostles But I graūt him to be y Phillip that was the deacon answeare that he was no deacon then For the church of Ierusalem whereof he was deacon being scattered he could be no more deacon of it or distribute the money that was collected for the poore of the church And further I answeare that he was afterwarde an Euangelist and therefore preached not by vertue of hys deaconshyppe whose calling is not to preache but by that he was an Euangelist whose office put vpon hym a necessitie of preaching After you say that deacons are not permitted with vs to celebrate the Lordes supper and why then shoulde they be suffered to mynister baptisme as if the one sacrament were not as precious as the other Thys is a myserable rending a sonder of those things which God hath ioyned together not only to seperate the mynistery of the sacramentes from the word but also the mynistery of one sacrament from an other And what reason is there that it should be graunted vnto one that can not preach being as they call hym a mynister to mynister both the sacramentes whē as the same is not permitted vnto a deacon as they call hym which is able to preach I doe not speake it for that I woulde haue those which be deacons in deede that is which haue charge to prouide for the poore of some one congregation eyther preach or mynister the sacraments but I say that it is agaynst all reason to permit the mynistery of the sacramentes to those which can not preach to deny it to those which are able to preach In the. 118. page vnto the example of Phillip he addeth S. Stephen which was one of the deacons which he affirmeth to haue preached But I deny it for all that long oration which he hath in the 7. of the Actes is no sermon but a defence of hym selfe agaynst those accusations which were layde agaynst hym as M. Beza doth very learnedly substancially proue in hys annotations vpon those places of S. Stephens disputations defence Now to defend hym selfe being accused is lawfull not for the deacons only but for any other christian we read nothing that Stephen dyd there eyther touching the defence of hys cause or the sharpe rebuking of the obstinate phariseys and priestes but that the holy Martyrs of God which were no deacons nor mynisters haue done with vs when they haue bene conuented before their persecutors And where as he sayth that Philip baptised I haue shewed before by what authoritie he dyd it that is not in that he was a deacon but for that he was an Euangelist He addeth further out of Iustin Martyr that the deacons dyd distribute the bread the wyne in the admynistration of the supper Tullie sayth in a certayne place that it is as great a poynt of wysedome in an aduocate or pleader of causes to holde backe and to keepe close that which is hurtfull to hys cause as it is to speake that which is profitable M. Doctor obserueth none of these poyntes for besydes that the thinges which he brought for the defence of the seruice booke are such as they haue before appeared in seeking to defende it he manyfestly oppugneth it For before he sayde that the booke of seruice doth not permit deacons to mynister the supper of the Lord and that by way of alowing of the booke and here he proueth that the deacons dyd mynister the sacrament of the supper and that also as a thing which he doth alow of But to let that passe I beseech thee good Reader marke what a mynistring of the supper thys is which Iustin maketh mention of note with what conscience M. Doctor handeleth this cause Iustin saith that after the scriptures are red and preached of and prayers made bread and wine water was brought forth
it were not that M. doctor in asking these questions dothe also answer them and answeareth them farre otherwyse then the truthe doeth suffer I would not be drawne from the causes whych we haue in hand by these roging questions nowe I can not leaue them vnansweared because I see that mayster Doctor dothe make of the holy Sacrament of baptisme whych is an entry into the house of God and whereby only the family of God must enter a common passage wherby he will haue cleane and vncleane holy and prophane as well those that are wythout the couenaunt as those that be wythin it to passe by and so maketh the church no housholde but an Iune to receyue whosoeuer commeth I will answere therfore almost in as many words as the questions be asked If one of the parents be neyther drunkarde nor adulterer the chylde is holy by vertue of the couenaunt for one of the parents sakes If they be bothe and yet not obstinate in their synne whereby the church hathe not proceeded to Excommunication them selues being yet of the church their chylde can not nor ought not to be refused To the second question wherein he asketh what if the childe be of Papistes or Heretikes If bothe be Papistes or condenmed heretikes if so be I may distinguishe papistes from heretikes and cutte of from the church then their children can not be receyued because they are not in the couenaunt if eyther of them be faithfull I haue answeared before that they ought to be receyued To the other question wherin he asketh what if they erre in some poynts of matters of faithe If it be but an error and be not in those poynts whych case the foundations of fayth because they still notwythstandyng their error are to be counted amongst the faythfull their children pertaine vnto the promise and therfore to the sacrament of the promise And in the. 193. page he asketh what if the parentes of the chylde bee vnknowne If they be yet if godly men will present it to baptisme with promise of seeing it brought vp in the feare of the Lorde for so muche as it is founde in a place where the church is and therefore by lykelyhoode to appertayne vnto some that was of the church I thinke it may be baptysed if the church thinke it good in thys last case Then hee goeth forth in the. 111. page to proue that the children of those which he hath reckned may be baptysed and demaundeth whether a wicked father may haue a good child a papist or heretike father a beleuing child yes verely may they So may haue and hath the Turke and the Iewe and yet theyr children are not to be receyued vnlesse their fayth doe first appeare by confession But you say the papist and hereticke be baptised and so are not the Iewes and Turkes Their baptisme they being cut of from the church maketh them as much straungers vnto it as was Ismael and Esau which albeit they were circumcysed yet being cast out of the church they were no more to be accompted to be of the body of Gods people then those whiche neuer were in the church Now you see the poyson as you terme it which lyeth hyd vnder these wordes and if it be as you say poyson let vs haue some of your triacle In all the rest of the section there is nothing but that which he spake of before only the eldershyp is named which commeth to be entreated of in the next section The reply vnto the three next sections concerning the senyors beginning in the latter end of the. 112. page and holding on vntill the beginning of the. 118. page AS though M. Doctor were at vtter defiance with all good order Methode of wryting that which was geuen hym orderly by the Admonition he hath turned vpsyde downe For where the Admonition speaketh first of the elders then of that which is annexed vnto them which is the dyscipline whereof excommunication is a part consydering that the subiect is in nature before that which is annexed vnto it M. Doctor hath turned it cleane contrary and first speaketh of excommunication and then of the elders I will therefore that the reader may the easelyer vnderstand that which is sayde follow the order of the Admonition and first of all speake of the elders or senyors which ought to be in the church And in speaking of them I must call to remembrance that diuision which I made mention on before that is Of those which haue care and which gouerne the whole congregation some there be which do both teache the word and gouerne also some which doe not teach but only gouerne and be ayders in the gouernment vnto those which doe teache Thys dyuision is most manifestly set forth in the Epistle vnto Timothe where he sayeth the elders which rule well are worthy of double honor and especially those which labor in the word and doctryne where he maketh by playne and expresse words two sorts of elders the one which doth both gouerne and teach the other which gouerneth only These therefore are the senyors which are meant whose office is in helping the pastor or byshop in the gouernement of that particulare church where they be placed pastors and elders Now that it is knowne what these senyors be in entreating of them I am content to answere M. Doctor three requestes which he maketh in the. 125. page where he desireth that one would do so much for hym as first to shew that these senyors were in euery congregation secondarely he will haue it proued that thys regiment is perpetual and not to be altered last of all he desireth to know whether these senyors were lay men and not rather mynisters of the word and byshops Thys last is a fond request and suche as is alredy answeared but he must be followed For the first therefore which is that there were segnyors in euery congregation although M. Doctor in the 114. page and in the. 132. page constrayned by Ambose authoritie confesseth it in playne wordes yet because he requireth it to be shewed and maketh a iest at those places which are alledged out of the scripture to proue it some thing muste be spoken thereof The first place is in the Actes whych is that Paule Barnabas dyd appoynte by election elders in euerie congregation but it is not lyke they dyd appoynt dyuers ministers or bishops which preached in euery congregation which were not to be had for suche a number of congregations as were then to bee preached vnto therefore in euery congregation there were besides those that preached other elders which dyd only in gouernment assist the pastors which preached And what should we follow comectures heere when S. Paule doth in the place before alledged declare what these elders are But M. Doctor sayeth that there is no mention made of the office of such an elder therefore that place maketh nothing to proue that there shoulde be such elders in euery congregation
So M. Doctor wryte he careth not what he write Belike he thinketh the credite of hys degree of Doctorshyp will geue waight to that which is light and pithe to that which is froth or else he would neuer answere thus For then I will if thys be a good reason say that for so much as S. Luke doth not in that place describe the office of the pastor or byshoppe which preacheth the woorde therefore that place proueth not that in euery congregation there should be a byshop or a pastor Besides that M. Doctor taketh vp the authors of the Admonition for reasoning negatiuely of the testimony of all the scriptures and yet hee reasoneth negatiuely of one only sentence in the scripture For he would conclude that for so much as there is no duetie of a senyor described in that place therefore there is no duety at all and consequently no senyor Afterwardes he sayeth that for so much as thys place hath bene vsed to proue a pastor or byshop in euery church therfore it can not be vsed to proue these elders so that sayeth he there must needes be eyther a contradiction or else a falsification The place is rightly alledged for both the one and the other and yet neyther contradiction to them selues nor falsification of the place but only a must before M. Doctors eyes which will not let hym see a playne and euident truth which is that the word elder is generall and comprehendeth both those elders which teach and gouerne and those which gouerne only as hath bene shewed out of S. Paule And whereas M. Doctor sayeth that the place of the Corinthes may bee vnderstanded of cyuill magistrates of preaching mynisters of gouernoures of the whole churche and not of euery particulare churche and fynally any thing rather then that wherof it is in deede vnderstanded I say first that he styll stumbleth at one stone which is that he can not put a difference betwene the church and common wealth and so betwene the church officers which he there speaketh of and the officers of the common wealth those which are ecclesiasticall and those which are cyuill Then that he meaneth not the mynister which proacheth it may appeare for that he had noted them before in the worde teachers and last of all he can not meane gouernoure of the whole church onles he shoulde meane a Pope and if he will say he meaneth an Archbyshop which gouerneth a whole prouince besides that it is a bolde speach without all warrant I haue shewed before that the word of God alloweth of no such office and therefore it remayneth that it must be vnderstanded of thys office of Elders The same answere may be made vnto that which he sayeth of the place to the Romaines where speaking of the offyces of the church after that hee had set forth the office of the pastor and of the doctor he addeth those other two offices of the Churche whereof one was occupyed in the gouernement only the other in prouyding for the poore and helping the sicke And if besides the manifest words of the Apostle in both these places I shoulde adde the sentences of the wryters vpon those places as M. Caluin M. Beza M. Martyr M. Bucer c. It should easely appeare what iust cause M. Doctor hath to say that it is to daily with the scriptures and to make them a nose of waxe in alledging of these to proue the elders that all men might vnderstand what terrible outcryes he maketh as in thys place so almost in all other when there is cause that he shoulde lay hys hand vpon hys mouth Thys I am compelled to wryte not so much to proue that there were senyors in euery church which is a thing confessed as to redeame those places from M. Doctors false and corrupt interpretations And as for the proufe of elders in euery congregation besydes hys confession I neede haue no more but hys owne reason For he sayeth that the office of these elders in euery church was in that tyme wherein there were no christian magistrates and when there was persecution but in the Apostles tymes there was both persecution and no christian magistrates therefore in theyr tyme the office of these elders was in euery congregation I come therefore to the second poynt wherein the question especially lyeth which is whether thys function be perpetuall and ought to remayne alwayes in the churche And it is to be obserued by the way that where as there are dyuers sortes of aduersaryes to thys disciplyne of the church Maister Doctor is amongst the worst For there be that saye that thys order may be vsed or not vsed now at the lybertie of the churches But M. Doctor sayeth that thys order is not for these tymes but only for those tymes when there were no christian magistrates and so doth flatly pinch at those churches which hauing christian magistrates yet notwithstanding retayne thys order still And to the ende that the vanitie of thys distinction which is that there oughte to bee senyors or auncientes in the tymes of persecution and not of peace vnder tyrantes and not vnder christian magistrates may appeare the cause why these senyors or auncientes were appoynted in the church is to bee consydered which must needes be graunted to bee for that the pastor not being able to ouersee all hym selfe and to haue hys eyes in euery corner of the church and places where the churches aboade might be helped of the auncientes Wherin the wonderfull loue of God towards hys church doth manifestly appeare that for the greater assurance of the saluation of hys dyd not content hym selfe to appoynt one only ouerseer of euery church but many ouer euery church And therefore seeing that the pastor is now in the tyme of peace and vnder a christian magistrate not able to ouersee all hym selfe nor hys eyes can not bee in euery place of the paryshe present to beholde the behauiour of the people it followeth that as well now as in the tyme of persecution as well vnder a christian prince as vnder a tyrant the office of an auncient or seignior is required Onles you will say that God hath lesse care of hys church in the time of peace and vnder a godly magistrate then he hath in the tyme of persecution and vnder a tyrant In deede if so bee the auncientes in the tyme of persecution and vnder a tyrant had medled with any office of a magistrate or had supplyed the roume of a godly magistrate in handling of any of those things which belonged vnto hym then there had bene some cause why a godly magistrate being in the church the office of the senior or at least so much as he exercised of the office of a magistrate shuld haue ceased But when as the auncient neither dyd nor by any meanes might meddle with those things which belonged vnto a magistrate no more vnder a tyrant thē vnder a godly magistrate there is no reason why
the magistrate entring into the church the elder shuld be therfore thrust out For the elders office was to admonish seuerally those that dyd amisse to comfort those which he saw weake shaking and to haue neede of comfort to assist the pastor in ecclesiasticall censures of reprehensions sharper or milder as the faultes required also to assist in the suspēsions from the supper of the Lord vntill some triall were had of the repentance of that party which had confessed hym selfe to haue offended or else if he remayned stubburne to assist hym in the excommunicatiō These were those things which the elders dyd which forsomuch as they may doe as well vnder a christian magistrate as vnder a tyrant as well in the tyme of peace as in the tyme of persecution it followeth that as touching the office of elders there is no distinction in the tymes of peace and persecution of a christian prince and of a tyrant But I will yet come nearer That without the which the principal offices of charitie can not be excercised is necessary and alwayes to be kept in the church But the office of auncients elders are such as with out which the principal offices of charity can not be exercised therefore it followeth that thys office is necessary That the principall offices of charity can not be exercised without thys order of auncientes it may appeare for that he which hath faulted and amendeth not after he be admonyshed once priuately and then before one wytnes or two can not further be proceeded agaynst according to the commaundement of our sauior Christ onlesse there be in the church auncients and elders therefore thys principall office of charitie which tendeth to the amendment of hym which hath not profited by those two former admonitions can not be exercised without them For it is cōmaunded of our sauiour Christ that in such a case when a brother doth not profite by these two warnings it should be tolde the church Now I would aske who be meant by the church heere if he say by the church are meant all the people then I will aske how a man can conueniently complayne to all the whole congregation or how can the whole congregation conueniently meete to decide of thys matter I doe not deny but the people haue an interest in the excommunication as shall be noted heereafter but the matter is not so farre come for hee must first refuse to obey the admonition of the church or euer they can proceede so farre Well if it be not the people that be meant by the church who is it I heare M. Doctor say it is the pastor but if he will say so and speake so straungely he must warrant it wyth some other places of scripture where the church is taken for one which is as much to say as one man is many one member is a body one alone is a company And besydes thys strangenes of speach it is cleane contrary to the meaning of our sauiour Christ and destroyeth the soueraignitie of the medycine which our sauiour Christ prepared for such a festered sore as would neyther be healed with priuate admonition neyther with admonition before one or two witnesses For as the fault groweth so our sauiour Christ woulde haue the number of those before whome he shoulde be checked and rebuked lykewise grow Therefore from a priuate admonition he ryseth vnto the admonition before two or three from them to the church which if we should say it is but one then to a daungerouser wound should be layde an easier plaister and therefore our sauiour doth not ryse from two to one for that were not to ryse but to fall nor to proceede but to goe backward but to many Seeing then that the church heere is neyther the whole congregation nor the pastor alone it followeth that by the church here he meaneth the pastor with the auncients or elders Or else whome can he meane And as for thys manner of speach wherein by the church is vnderstanded the cheefe gouernours and elders of the church it is oftentymes vsed in the olde Testament from the which our sauiour borowed thys maner of speaking as in Exodus it is sayde That Moses wrought hys myracles before the people when mention is made before only of the elders of the people whome Moses had called together And most manifestly in * Iosue where it is sayde that he that kylled a man at vnwares shall returne vnto the citie vntill he stand before the congregration to be iudged Where by the congregation he meaneth the gouernoures of the congregation for it dyd not appertayne to all to iudge of thys case Lykewyse in the Chronicles and dyuers other places And therefore I conclude that forsomuch as those be necessary and perpetuall which are spoken of in those wordes tell the Church and that vnder those wordes are comprehended the elders or auncientes that the elders and auncientes be necessary and perpetuall officers in the church Furthermore S. Paule hauing entreated throughout the whole first Epistle to Timothe of the orders which ought to be in the church of God and of the gouernment as hym selfe wytnesseth in the third chapter of that Epistle whē he sayeth he wrote that Epistle to teach Timothe how he shoulde behaue hym selfe in the house of God and hauing set forth both byshoppe and elder and deacons as mynisters and officers of the church in the shutting vp of hys Epistle he for the obseruation of all the orders of that Epistle adiureth Timothe and with the inuocation of the name of God strayghtly chargeth hym to obserue those thinges which hee had prescribed in that Epistle I charge thee sayeth hee before God which quickeneth all things and before Iesus Christ which witnessed vnder Pontius Pilate a good profession that thou keepe thys commaundement without spot or blemishe vntill the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ The wayght of which sentence for the obseruing of those things which are mentioned in thys Epistle that it may be the better vnderstanded I will note the wordes seuerally First therefore it is to be noted that he sayeth I denounce or I charge He doth not say I exhorte or giue counsell leauing it to the lyberty of Timothe Secondarely it is to be noted that he calleth the whole Epistle a commaūdement and therefore it is no permission so that it may be lawfull for the churches to leaue it or to keepe it Thirdly when he maketh mention of the lyuing God and of Christ which witnessed a good profession vnder Pontius Pilate he sheweth that the thinges contayned in thys Epistle are such as for the mayntenaunce thereof wee ought not to doubt to geue our lyues and that they be not such as we ought to kepe so that we haue them without strife and without sweate or easely but such as for the keeping of them if we haue them and for the obtayning of them if we haue them not I will not say
our honoures or our commodities and wealth but as I haue sayd our lyues ought not to be deare vnto vs For therefore doth hee make mention of the confession of Christ vnto the death that he might shew vs an example and forthwith speaketh of God which rayseth from the dead that by thys meanes he might comfort Timothe if he should be brought into any trouble for the defence of any of these things Fourthly if we refer those wordes without spot or blemish vnto the commaundement as I for my part thinke they ought to be then there is a waight in these words not to be passed ouer which is that the apostle will not only haue the rules heere contayned not troden vnder the feete or broken in peeces but hee will not haue them so much as in any one small poynt or specke neglected But I see how M. Doctor will wype away all thys and say that these thinges or some of them were to bee obserued thus necessarily and precisely vntill there were christian prynces and peace in the churche but the print is deeper then that it will bee so washed away Therefore it is to be obserued what he sayeth in the latter end of the sentence where he chargeth Timothe and in hym all that hee should keepe all these things not vntill the tyme of peace or to the times of Christian Princes but euen vntill the comming or appearing of our sauiour Christ which is as long as the world lasteth And therfore I conclude that the seigniors or elders of the church being a part of that order and gouernment of the church which S. Paule appoynteth in thys Epistle are necessary perpetuall and by no meanes to be changed So that we haue not only now the examples of all the primitiue churches which ought to moue vs if there were no commaundement but we haue also a straight commaundement I say the onely examples ought to moue vs for what way can we safelyer follow then the common hygh way beaten and troden by the steps of all the Apostles and of all the churches Things also growing and being preserued by the same meanes by the which they were ingendred why shoulde we thinke but that the churches now will prosper by that gouernment whereby it first came vp But I say we haue not only the examples of the churches but wee haue also commaundement and strayght charge to keepe thys office of elders and auncientes in the church and therefore it is not onely rashnesse in leauing the way that the Apostles and churches by the Apostles aduise haue gone but disobedyence also to depart from theyr commaundement and to mayntayne and defend that we may doe so I can almost geue it no gentler name then rebellion Now I will come to Mayster Doctors reasons which he hath in the hundreth and fourteene and a hundred and fifteene pages where he graunteth that there were elders in euery church in tymes past but sayth that it ought not now so to bee For sayeth hee the tymes alter the gouernment and it can not be gouerned in the tyme of prosperitie as in the tyme of persecution vnder a christian prince as vnder a tyrant Thus he sayeth but sheweth no reason bringeth no proofe declareth not how nor why prosperity will not beare the Elders as well as persecution neyther why they may not be vnder a godly prince as well as vnder a tyrant onles thys be a reason that because the godly prince doth nourishe the church as a cyuill magistrate therefore the auncientes may not nourish it as Ecclesiasticall ouerseers Now seeing Maister Doctor can shew vs no cause why they may not as well be now as in the tyme of the Apostles as well vnder a christian prince as vnder a tyrant I will shew hym that although they be alwayes necessary yet there is better cause why they should rather be now then in the apostles times greater necessyty vnder a christian prince then vnder a tyrant First of all in the apostles tymes it is knowne that the giftes of the spirite of wisedome discretion knowledge enduring of trauaile were poured forth more plentifully then euer they were eyther before or shall be after By reason whereof the pastoures and mynisters of the churches that were then were I speake generally and of the estate of the whole Church better furnyshed with the giftes needefull for their mynistery then are the mynisters of these dayes Wherupon I conclude that if the ayde and assistance of the pastor by the Elders was thought necessary by the apostles in those tymes when the mynisters were so well and so richly replenished with such giftes much more is that ayde and assistance meete for the mynisters of these dayes wherein their giftes of discretion and knowledge and dyligence are not so plentifull For if they whose eye sight was so cleare to perceiue whose handes so nimble to execute had neede for their ayde of other eyes other handes then the mynisters now whose eyes are dimmer and hands heauier then theirs were haue much more neede of thys ayde then they had Agayne if S. Paule dyd charge the persecuted therefore pore churches with the fineding and prouiding for the senyors in euery church as it appeareth in the Epistle to Timothe where he sayeth that Elders whiche rule well are worthy double honour whereby he signifyeth a plentifull rewarde and suche as may be fully sufficient for them and their housholdes as when he biddeth that the widdow which serued the churche in attending vpon the sicke and vppon the straungers shoulde be honoured that is haue that wherewyth shee might honestly and soberly liue if I say Saynt Paule woulde charge the churches then with mayntayning the elders which being poore were not sometimes hable to liue without some reliefe from the church because they were compelled oftentimes to leaue their owne affaires to wayte of the affaires of the church how much more ought there now to be senyors when the churches be in peace and therefore not so pore and when there may be chosen such for the most part thoroughout the realme as are able to liue without charging the church any whit as the practise of these dayes doth manifestly declare And if S. Paule that was so desirous to haue the gospell adapanon that is free and without charges as much as is possible and so loth to lay any burthen vpon the churches especially those which were poore dyd notwithstanding enioyne the mayntenaunce of the elders vnto the churches poore and persecuted how much more shall we thincke that hys mynde was that the Churches which liue in peace and are rich and may haue thys office without charge ought to receiue thys order of auncientes Moreouer those that be learned know that the gouernement of the church which was in the apostles tymes being partly in respect of the people that had to doe in the elections and other things popular partly in respect of the pastors and auncientes Aristocraticall that
is the rule of the best I say they know that these gouernmentes do easely declyne into their contraries and by reason therof both the gouernment of those which were most vertuous might easely be chaunged into the gouernment of few of the richest or of greatest power and the populare estate might easely passe to a confused tumulte Now thys incommoditie were they more subiect vnto vnder a tyrant then vnder a godly prince For they had no cyuill magistrate which might correct and reforme those declyninges when they happened For the tyrantes dyd not know of it and if they had known of it they would haue bene glad to see the churches goe to wracke Therfore now we haue a godly ciuil magistrate which both wil ought to remedy such declinings conuersions of good gouernment into euill it followeth that thys estate gouernmēt by auncientes is rather to be vsed vnder a christian prince then vnder a tyrant Besides thys in the tyme of persecution all assemblyes of dyuers together were daungerous and put them all in hazard of their lyfe which dyd make those assemblies And therefore if the pastor alone might haue ordered and determyned of things pertayning to the church by hym selfe it had bene lesse daunger to him and more safety for others of the Church And therfore if the senyors were then thought meete to gouerne the church when they could not come together to exercise their functions without daunger much more ought they to be vnder a christian prince when they may meete together without daunger M. Doctor proceedeth sayeth it can not be gouerned in a whole realme as it may be in a citie or town This gouernment by senyors is not only in one citie but also hath beene of late throughout the whole realme of Fraunce where there were any churches and M. Doctor confesseth that it was in all the primitiue churches and therefore not onely in one realme but almost throughout the whole world and therefore the large spreading of the church can not hynder it So that the difference lyeth still in the peace and persecution of the Church and not in the capacitie and largenesse of the place where the churches abyde So might one reason agaynst the lawfull estate of a Monarchie For he might say that although the rule of one be needefull and conuenient in a housholde yet it is not conuenient in a towne and although it be conuenient in a towne yet it is not in a citie and although in a citie yet not in a realme To be short sayeth hee when he can say no more it can not be gouerned when it is full of hypocrites Papistes Atheistes and other wicked persons as in the times of persecution when there were few or none such I haue shewed before how great want of knowledge it bewrayeth to say that Papistes and Atheistes be of the church and I loue not as Maister Doctor doth to vse often repetition but if there bee now moe hypocrites other wicked and vnruely parsones in the church then there were in the tyme of persecution which I wil not deny thē there is greater cause now why there should be senyors in euery churche then there was then when there were fewer For the more naughty persons and the greater disorders there be the more ayde and helpe hath the pastor neede to haue both to finde out their disorders and also when they haue founde them out to iudge of the qualitie of them and after also to correct them with the censures of the church which standeth in such reprehensions priuate and open and excommunication as I haue before rehearsed Afterwarde he asketh what senyors may bee had in most of the paryshes of Englande fitte for that office he asketh the same question in the. 133. page where he also addeth pastors asking where may be gotten such pastoures as the authors of the Admonition require when as they require no other then those which the word of God requireth Well then if thys be a good reason why there should be no elders in any church because fitte men are not to be gotten in all paryshes it followeth by M. Doctors reason that forasmuch as we haue not fit and able pastors for euery church that therfore we ought to haue no able pastor in any church And if he will graunt that we ought to haue able pastoures in as many places as they may be gotten how can he deny that wee should haue elders in those churches where fitte men may bee had And I say further where wee haue an expresse commaundement layde vpon vs to doe a thing there all disputations must cease of hardenes of impossibility or profite or else of peace For first God hath not commaunded any orders in hys churche which are impossible and if they seeme harde it must bee remembred that the best and excellentest things are hardest and that there is nothing so harde which dyligence and trauayle to bring it to passe will not ouercome Which thing if it bee proued true in worldly affaires the truth therof will much more appeare in the matters pertayning vnto God considering that if God with hys blessing doe surmount all the difficultyes in worldly matters whych are otherwyse harde to be compassed hee will in hys owne matters and matters pertayning to hys glory fill vp the valleys although they be neuer so low bring downe the hylles althoughe they bee neuer so high playne the wayes be they neuer so rough so that he will make of a way not passable in the eyes of flesh away tracked and easie to goe in and to walke towardes that kingdome whereunto hee calleth vs Besides that I answere wheresoeuer there is a churche there are the riches of the spirite of God there is wyth knowledge discretion wisdom and there are suche as * S. Paule calleth wise and can discerne and iudge And wee see that when men are called to a lawfull and profitable calling and especially to a publike calling God doth powre on hys giftes of that person which is called so plentifully that hee is as it were sodenly made a newe manne which if he do in the wicked as Saule was there is no doubt but he will doe it in those which are with the testimony of the church and with experience of their former godly behauiour chosen to such offices of waight So that there is not nor can not bee any want to obey Goddes commaundement and to establishe the order in the church whych God hath appoynted but our owne eyther neglygence and slouthfulnes or fearefulnes or ambition or some other leuen which we nourish within our selues It is true that we ought to be obedyent vnto the cyuill magistrate which gouerneth the church of God in that office which is committed vnto hym and according to that calling But it must be remembred that cyuil magistrates must gouerne it according to the rules of God prescribed in hys word that as they are nourises so they
plainly by Ierome whych folowed Ambrose immediatlye who in hys third chapter vpon Esay sayeth that they had also the presbyterie or eldershyp in the church The same myght be shewed by diuers other testimonies whych I omit because that it may appeare by the former treatise touchyng the election of the mynister that thys order of eldershyp continued in the church diuers hundreth yeares after Ambrose tyme euen as long almoste as there was any sound part of the church from the head to the heele Nowe I haue shewed the ignorance it remayneth to shewe howe that eyther M. Doctor was maruellously hym selfe abused or else desyreth to abuse other For if wheras he toke halfe Ambrose sentence he had taken the other halfe wyth hym and had not sodenly stopped hys breath that he should speake no more in steade of a false wytnes agaynst the eldershyp he should haue brought forthe as cleare and as flat a witnes for the proofe of them as a man coulde desire out of an auncient wryter The whole sentence is thys speakyng of thys offyce of the elders although not vpon so good occasyon thus he sayeth Whervpon the sinagoge and after the church had elders wythout whose counsell nothyng was done in the church whych Elders I know not by what neglygence they are worne out onles it be through the slouthfulnes of the doctors or rather throughe theyr pryde whylest they only would seeme to be somewhat Now that I haue shewed the place I wyll say no more I wyl leaue it to M. Doctor to thinke of it in his chamber by hym selfe and so will conclude this question that for so much as thys order is such as wythout whych the principall offices of charity can not be exercysed and that it is that which is commauÌ„ded by the scryptures approued and receyued by all the churches in the Apostles tymes and many hundreth yeares after in the most flouryshing churches bothe in tyme of peace in tyme of persecution and that there are greater causes why it should be in the tyme of peace then in tyme of persecution why rather vnder a christian prince then vnder a tyrant why rather now then in the apostles times that in consyderation of these things the eldershyp is necessary and such an order as the church ought not to be wythout And so also is answeared the third question that for so much as they were church offycers and ouer the people in matters pertayning to God such as watched ouer the soules of men that therfore although they were not pastors to preach the word yet were they no lay men as they terme them but ecclesiasticall persons The rest comprehended in these sections is answeared before being matter whych pertayned vnto the archbyshop Nowe I returne backe agayne to Excommunicacion whych M. Doctor thynketh to be the only disciplyne in the church but he shuld vnderstand that besyde that parte of priuate disciplyne whych is ordinarily and dayly to be exercised by euery one of the pastors elders as Admonition and reprehension there are .iij. princypal parts whych are exercised of them ioyntly and together wherof the first is the election or choyse and the abdication or putting out of Ecclesiasticall officers The second is in excommunication of the stubburne or absolution of the repeÌ„tant The third is the decision of all such matters as doe ryse in the church eyther touchyng corrupt manners or peruerse doctryne As touchyng the election and consequently the throwing out it hath bene shewed before that together wyth the churche the eldershyp hathe the principall sway For the decision of controuersyes wheÌ„ they ryse it may appeare in the. 15. of the Acts that the Presbyterie or Eldershyp of the churche hath to determine of that also Nowe it remayneth heere that whereas M. Doctor sayeth that the Excommunication and consequently the absolution or restoryng to the church agayne doth pertayne only to the minister that I shewe that the Presbyterye or eldership and the whole church also hath interest in the Excommunication and consequently in the absolution or restoryng vnto the churche But heere by the way it is to be noted that in saying that it belongeth to the minister he confesseth the dysorder in our church wherin this power is taken away from the minister and geuen to the byshop and hys offycers Nowe that thys charge of excommunication belongeth not vnto one or to the minyster but cheefely to the eldershyp and pastor it appeareth by that whych the authors of the admonition alledge out of S. Mathewe whych place I haue proued before to be necessarily vnderstaÌ„ded of the elders of the church It is most absurdly sayd of M. doctor in the. 135. page that by the church is vnderstanded eyther my Lordes grace or the byshop of the diocese or the Chancellor or Commissarye And that when a man complayneth vnto one of these he may be well sayd to complayne vnto the church whych is the more vntollerable for that being so straunge a saying and suche as may astonyshe all that heare it he neyther confirmeth it by any reason or lyke phrase of scrypture or by the authority of any godly or approued wryter olde or newe whych notwythstanding he seeketh for so diligently and turneth the commentaries in hys study so painefully when he can haue but one against twentye and but a sillable where he can not haue a sentence It may be the clearlyer vnderstanded that the presbyterie or eldership had the cheefe stroke in this excoÌ„munication if it be obserued that thys was the pollicy and discipline of the Iewes and of the smagogue from whence our sauyoure Christ toke this and translated it vnto this church that when any man had don any thing that they held for a fault that then the same was punished and censured by the Elders of the church according to the quality of the faulte as it maye appeare in S. Mathewe For althoughe it be of some and those very learned expounded of the ciuill iudgement yet for so muche as the Iewes had nothyng to do wyth ciuill iudgements the same being altogyther in the hands of the Romaines and that the word sanâ—drim corrupted of the Greeke worde synedrion whych S. Mathewe vseth is knowen by those that haue skill in the Rabbins and especially the Iewes Talmud to signifye the ecclesiasticall gouernors there can be no doubt but he meaneth the ecclesiasticall censures And if the fault were iudged very great then the sentence of Excommunication was awarded by the same elders as appeareth in S. Iohn And thys was the cause why our sauioure Christe spake so shortly of thys matter in the. 18. of S. Mathew wythout noting the circumstances more at large for that he spake of a thyng whych was well knowne and vsed amongst the Iewes whome he spake vnto And that this was the meaning of our sauioure Christe in those wordes it may appeare by the practise whych is set forthe in the Epistles
that they had also some care to prouide for the poore and that they were such as dyd mynister the sacramentes And in an other Councell they haue authoritie geuen them to make subdeacons exorcists and readers I know thys was a corruption of the mynistery but yet all men see how Maister Doctor looketh as it were a farre of vpon things and therefore taketh a man for a molehill when he would make vs beleeue that these were chauncelors c. In the. 125. page to the admonition desyring that these may be remoued and the eldershyp establyshed according to Gods order M. Doctor aunswereth that that were to place in stede of wise and discrete men vnlearned ignorant and vnapt to rule Let Maister Doctor take heede least in alowing so well of the popishe ceremonies not only as tollerable but as fitte and then acquainting hym selfe with the papistes maner of speaking in saying that the people be ignoraunt and vnlearned he fal or ouer he be aware into some worse thing Moses in Deuteronomie and Salomon in hys prouerbes place the principall wisedome in keeking Gods commaundementes and in fearing god And Dauid sayeth that the secretes and the priuy councell of the Lord is knowen to those which feare hym and I haue shewed out of S. Paule that he geueth to the spirituall man great discretion and iudgement of things If therefore there be in euery church which feare God and keepe hys commaundementes there are both wise and learned discrete men and therefore not to be spoken of so contemptuously as M. Doctor speaketh And God be praysed there are numbers in the church that are hable to be teachers vnto most of the chauncelors in any matter perteyning to the church and are hable to geue a ryper iudgement in any ecclesiastical matter then the most part of them can And besides that the choysest are to be taken to thys office thys ought not to be forgotten that seeing good successe of thinges depend vppon the blessing of God and that blessing followeth the church when the Lordes order is kept simple men which carry no great countenaunce or shew will vndoubtedly doe more good vnto the church hauing a lawfull calling then those of great port whiche haue no such calling In the. 228. page he thinketh the Archbyshoppes Courte necessary but bringeth no reason and further confesseth hym selfe ignoraunt of the estate of it and therefore I know not from whence that good opynion of hys shoulde come onlesse it be from thence that he lyketh of all things be they neuer so euill whych the admonition missyketh The rest which M. D. hath of thys matter is nothing else but great and high wordes And as for the Canon law it is knowen what a stroke it beareth with vs and that a few cases excepted it remayneth in her former effect To the sections beginning in the. 118. page and holding on vntill the. 123. page It was before shewed that of the gouernoures of the church there were some whose charge pertayned vnto the whole church of the which we haue spoken some other whose charges extend but to a part of the church that is vnto the poore and these are the deacons And as in the former part I shewed there were two kindes so in this latter part the same is to be noted that of those whose charge was ouer the poore some had charge ouer all the poore of the church as those which are called deacons some had charge ouer the poore straungers and those poore which were sicke only and those S. Paule calleth in one place Dyaconisses and in an other place widdowes For the deacons dyd distribute vnto the necessyties as well of the poore straungers and the sicke poore as vnto the other poore of the church And the widdowes did employ their laboures to the washing of the feete of the straungers and attending vppon the poore which were sicke and had no frendes to keepe them First I will speake of the deacons whereas M. Doctor cryeth out of daiying with the scriptures for alledging the. 8. verse of the twelfth vnto the Romaines to proue deacons affirming that there is no worde of them Truely I can fynde no wordes to set forth thys so grosse ignorance And had it not bene enough for M. Doctor to haue vttered thys ignorance but he must also with an outery proclayme it and as it were spred the banner of it What doe these wordes note he that distributeth in simplicitie but the office of the deaconshyp For in that place S. Paule reckeneth vp all the ordinary and perpetuall offices of the church as the office of the doctor of the pastor of the deacon of the elder and leaueth not out so muche as the widdow which he comprehendeth in these wordes shewing mercy If the authors of the Admonition doe daily with the scriptures in thys place surely Maister Caluin M Beza M. Bucer Peter Martyr c. doe dally with them And shall all these be esteemed to play with the scriptures and M. Doctor only to handle them seriously And as M. Doctors ignorance appeareth in thys place so hys mynde not desirous of the truth but secking to cauill doth as manifestly shew it selfe For all men see that the admonition alledgeth not the place to the Tessalonians to proue the office of deacons but to shew that idle vagavondes might not haue any of that reliefe which belongeth vnto those which bee poore in deede which thing appeareth both by the placing of the quotation ouer agaynst that allegation by the letter which directeth therunto And whereas M. Doctor sayth that the office of the deacons is not only to prouide for the poore but also to preach and mynister the sacramentes I haue shewed before that it doth not appertayne vnto them to doe eyther the one or the other For the proofe whereof thys place of the Romaines quoted by the admonition is very fit most proper For S. Paule speaketh there agaynst those which not contenting themselues with their owne vocatiōs dyd breake into that which appertayned vnto others as if the hand should take vpon it the office of the eye or of some other member of the body therfore S. Paule doth as it were bound point the limites of euery office in the church so placeth the deacons office only in the preuysion for the poore Thys one thing I will adde to that matter that if the apostles whiche hadde suche excellent and passing gyftes dyd fynde them selues preaching of the woorde and attending to prayer not able to prouyde for the poore but thought it necessarye to dyscharge them selues of that offyce to the ende they myght doe the other effectually and fruitefully hee that shall doe both now must eyther doe none well and profitably or else hee must haue greater giftes then the Apostles had The seconde poynt is touching that there were deacons in euery churche which is well proued of the admonition both by the place of the
Phillippyans and of the Actes for although it be not there sayd that the deacons were in euery church yet for so muche as the same vse of them was in all churches which was in Ierusalem at Philippos and for that the Apostles as hath bene before touched laboring after the vniformitie of the church ordeyned the same officers in all churches the proofe of one is the proofe of all and the shewing that there were deacōs in one church is the shewing in all The place which they alledge out of the first to Timothe is of all other most proper for S. Paule there describing not how the church of Ephesus but simply and generally how the church must be gouerned reckneth there the order of deacons Whereunto may be added the contynuall practise of the church long after the Apostles times which appeareth by the often superscriptions and subscriptions in these words the byshop elders and deacons of such a church and vnto the byshop elders and deacons of such a church And by that it is so often times sayd in the councelles where the churches assembled y there were so many byshops so many elders so many deacons The thirde poynt in thys deaconship is whether it be a necessary office in the church or for a tyme only which controuersy shoulde not haue bene if M. Doctors english tong had bene agreable with hys latin For in a certayne latin pamphlet of hys whereof I spake before he maketh the deaconship a necessary office and such as ought not to be taken out of the church here he singeth a nother song There because he thought the necessitie of the deacon made for hym he wold nedes haue deacons here because it maketh agaynst hym he sayth there is no neede of them wherby appeareth how small cause there is that M. Doctor should vpbrayde the authors of the admonition with mutability and discord with them selues But that thys office is durable and perpetuall it may appeare by that which I haue alledged before out of the sixt of Timothe for the necessitie of elders for the argumentes serue to proue the necessitie of those orders which are there set forth whereof the deacon is one And where as M. Doctor sayth that euery church is not hable to fynde a curate as he termeth hym and a deacon I haue before shewed intreating of the senyors that the churches in the Apostles tymes might best haue sayd thys being poore and persecuted althoughe I see not why the church may not haue a deacon or deacons if moe be needefull with as small charges as they may haue a collector or collectors There remayneth to speake of the widdowes which were godly poore women in the church aboue the age of 60. yeares for the auoyding of all suspition of euill which might rise by slaunderous tonges if they had bene yonger These as they were norished at the charges of the church being poore so dyd they serue the church in attending vpon poore strangers and the poore which were sicke in the church whereof they were widdowes Now although there is not so great vse of these widdowes with vs as there was in those places where the churches were first founded and in that tyme wherein thys order of widdowes was instituted part of the which necessity grew both by the multitude of straungers through the persecution by the great heate of those east countries whereupon the washing supplyng of their feete was required yet for so much as there are poore which are sicke in euery church I doe not see how a better and more conuenient order can be deuised for the attendance of them in their sicknes other infirmities then thys which S. Paule appoynteth that there shuld be if there can be any gotten godly poore widdowes of the age which S. Paule appoynteth which should attend vpon such For if there be any such poore widdowes of that age destitute of all friendes it is manifest that they must needes liue of the charge of the church seing they must nedes do so it is better they shuld do some duety for it vnto the church agayne thē the church should be at a new charge to finde others to attend vpon those which are sicke destitute of keepers seing that there can be none so fit for that purpose as those women which S. Paule doth there describe so that I conclude that if such may be gotten we ought also to kepe that order of widowes in the church still I know y there be lerned men which thinke otherwise but I stand vpon the authoritie of Gods worde and not vppon the opynions of men be they neuer so well learned And if the matter also shoulde be tryed by the iudgement of men I am able to shew the iudgement of as learned as thys age hath brought forth which thinketh that the institution of widdowes is perpetuall and ought to be where it may be had and where such widdowes are founde In deede they are more rare now then in the Apostles tymes For then by reason of the persecution those which had the gift of continency dyd abstayne from mariage after the death of their husbandes for that the sole lyfe was an easyer estate and lesse daungerous and chargeable when they were driuen to flye then the estate of those which were maryed Vnto all the rest vntill the ende of the first part of the admonition I haue answered alredy Yet there is a poynt or two which I must touch wherof the first is in the. 126. page where he would beare men in hand that the authors of the admonition and some other of theyr mynde would shut out the cyuill magistrate and the Prince from all authoritie in Ecclesiastical matters which surmise although I see it is not so much because eyther he knoweth or suspecteth any such thing as because he meaneth heereby to lay a bayte to entrappe with all thinking that where he maketh no conscience to geue he careth not what authority to Princes we will be loth to geue more then the word of God will permit wherby he hopeth to draw vs into displeasure with the Prince yet for because he shall vnderstande we norish no opynions secretly which we are ashamed to declare openly and for that we doubt not of the equitie of the prince in thys part which knoweth that although her authoritie be the greatest in the earth yet it is not infinite but is lymitted by the word of God and of whome we are perswaded that as her maiesty knoweth so shee will not vnwillingly heare the truth in thys behalfe these things I say being considered I answere in the name of the authors of the admonition and those some other which you speake of that the Prince and cyuill magistrate hath to see that the lawes of God touching hys worshippe and touching all matters and orders of the church be executed dewly obserued to se that euery Ecclesiasticall person do that office whereunto he is
appoynted and to punish those which fayle in their office accordingly As for the making of the orders cerimonyes of the church they doe where there is a constituted and ordered church pertayne vnto the mynisters of the church and to the ecclesiastycall gouernoures and that as they meddle not with the making of cyuill lawes and lawes for the common wealth so the cyuill magistrate hath not to ordayne cerimonies pertayning to the churche But if those to whome that doth appertayne make any orders not meete the magistrate may and ought to hynder them and dryue them to better for so much as the ciuill magistrate hath thys charge to see that nothing be done agaynst the glory of God in hys domynion Thys distinction if M. Doctor knoweth not nor hath not heard of let him looke in the. 2. booke of the Chronicles he shall see that there were a number appoynted for the matters of the Lord which were priestes and leuites and there were other also appoynted for the Kinges affaires and for matters of the common wealth amongst which were the Leuites which being more in number then coulde be applyed to the vse of the churche were set ouer cyuill causes being therefore most fit for that they were best learned in the lawes of God which were the politicke lawes of that countrey There he may learne if it please hym that the making of orders and geuing of iudgementes in cyuill and Ecclesiasticall in common wealth and church matters pertayned vnto dyuers persons which distinction the wryter to the Hebrewes doth note when he sayeth that the Priest was ordayned in things pertayning to God. Thys might Maister Doctor haue learned by that whiche the noble emperor * Constantine attributeth to the fathers of the Nicene councell and to the Ecclesiasticall persons there gathered which he doth also permit the Byshops Elders and Deacans of churches to doe eyther by correcting or adding or making new if neede be And by the contynuall practise of the church in the tyme of christian Emperors which alwayes permitted vnto the mynisters assembled in councelles as well the determynation of controuersies which rose as the making or the abolyshing of needefull or hurtfull cerimonies as the case required Also by the Emperoures epistle in the first action of the councell of Constantinople where by the epistle of the Emperor it appeareth that it was the manner of the Emperoures to confirme the ordinaunces which were made by the mynisters and to see them kept The practise of thys he myght haue also most playnly seene in Ambrose who wold by no meanes suffer that the causes of the churches should be debated in the Princes consistory or court but would haue them handled in the church by those that had the gouernment of the church and therefore excuseth hym selfe to the emperour Valentinian for that being conuented to answere of the church matters vnto the ciuill court he came not And by whome can the matters and orders of the church bee better ordayned then by the mynisters of the church And if that be a good reason of Maister Doctor in the fortie and seuenth page that the Byshoppes ought therefore to ordayne mynisters because they are best hable to iudge of the learning and habylitie of those which are the fyttest it is also as good reason that therefore the mynisters and gouernours of the church should appoynt and decree of such ceremonyes and orders as pertayne to the church for because it is to be supposed that they can best iudge of those matters bestowing theyr studyes that wayes and further best vnderstanding the estate of the church about the which they are wholy occupyed And this is not Maister Doctor to shake handes with the papistes For the papistes would exempt their priestes from the subiection and from the punyshment of the cyuill magistrate which we doe not And the papistes would that whatsoeuer the cleargy doth determyne that that forthwith should be holden for good and the Prince should be forthwith compelled to mayntayne and set forth that bee it good or euill without further inquiry but wee say that if there bee no lawfull mynistery to set good orders as in rumous decayes and ouerthrowes of relygion that then the Prince ought to doe it and if when there is a lawfull mynistery it shall agree of any vnlawfull or vnmeete order that the Prince ought to stay that order and not to suffer it but to driue them to that which is lawfull and meete And if thys be to shake handes with the papistes then Maister Doctor is to blame which hath taught vs once or twise before that the appoynting of ceremonies of the church belongeth vnto the church And yet I know that there is one or two of the later wryters that thinke otherwise but as I take no aduauntage of their authoritie which thinke as I doe so I ought not to be preiudiced by those that thinke otherwise But for so much as we haue M. Doctor yet of thys iudgement that the church ceremonies shoulde bee ordayned by the church I will trauaile no further in thys matter consydering that the practise of thys church commonly is to referre these matters vnto the ecclesiasticall persons only thys is the difference that where it is done now of one or a few wee desire that it may be done by others also who haue interest in that behalfe The other poynt is in the hundreth thirty and eyght page where hee most vntruely and slaunderously chargeth the authors of the Admonition and maketh wonderfull outcryes of them as though they should deny that there hadde beene any reformation at all sythens the tyme that the Queenes maiestye began to raigne manyfestly contrary not onely to theyr meaning but also to theyr very words which appeareth in that they moue to a thorough reformation to contende or to labour to perfection denying only that the reformation which hath bene made in her maiesties dayes is thorough and perfect We confesse willingly that next vnto the Lorde God euery one of vs is most deepely bounde vnto her maiesty whome he hath vsed as an excellent instrument to delyuer his church heere out of the spirituall Egipt of popery and the common wealth also and the whole lande out of the slauery and subiection of straungers whereunto it was so neare Thys I say we willingly confesse before men and do in our prayers dayly geue most humble thankes to God therefore And by thys humble sute and earnest desire whiche wee haue for further reformation we are so far from vnthankfulnes vnto her maiesty that we thereby desire the heape of her felicitie the establishment of her royal throne amongst vs which then shall be most sure and vnremoued when our sauiour Christ sytteth wholy and fully not only in hys chayre to teach but also in hys throne to rule not alone in the heartes of euery one by hys spirite but also generally and in the visible gouernment of hys church by
wrytings and paraphrases vpon the scryptures are estemed comparable in that kinde of paraphrasticall wryting wyth any whych hath laboured that wayes And if any mennes wrytings were to be red in the church those paraphrases whych in explanyng the scrypture go least from it and whych kepe not only the numbre of sentences but almost the very numbre of words were of all most fitte to be red in the churche Seeing therfore I say the church of God then abstained from such interpretations in the church and contented it selfe wyth the scryptures it can not be but a moste dangerous attempt to bryng any thyng into the church to be red besydes the word of god Thys practise continued still in the churches of God after the apostles times as may apeare by the second Apologie of Iustin Martyr which sheweth that theyr manner was to read in the church the monuments of the prophets and of the apostles and if they had red any thyng else it is to be supposed that he would haue set it downe consydering that hys purpose there is to shewe the whole order whych was vsed in their churches then The same may appear in the first Homilye of Oregine vpon Exodus and vpon the Iudges And as for M. Bucers authoritye I haue shewed before how it ought to be wayghed heere also it is suspitious for that it is sayd that hys aduise was when the lord should blesse the realme wyth moe learned preachers that then order should be taken to make more homilyes whych should be red in the church vnto the people As if M. Bucer dyd not know that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme whych were able to make homilies so many as the volume of them myght easely haue exceeded the volume of the Byble if the multytude of homilyes would haue done so much good And if the authority of M. Bucer beare so great a sway wyth M. Doctor that vpon hys credite only wythout eyther scripture or reason or examples of the Churches primitiue or those whych are now he dare thrust into the church homilies then the authorities of the most ancient best councels ought to haue ben considered whych haue geuen charge that nothyng should be red in the church but only the canonicall scriptures For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea the nothing shuld be red in the church but the canonicall bokes of the olde and newe testament and reckeneth vp what they be Afterward as corruptions grew in the church it was permitted that homilies myght be red by the deacon when the minister was sicke and coulde not preach and it was also in an other councel of Carthage permitted that the martyrs liues might be red in the church But besides the euill successe that those decrees had vnder pretence wherof the popishe legende and Gregories homilies c. crept in that vse and custome was controlled by other councels as may appeare by the coūcell of Colen albeit otherwyse popishe And truely if there were nothing else but thys consideration that the bringing in of the reading of Martyrs liues into the church and of the homilies of auncient wryters hath not only by thys meanes iustled with the Bible but also thrust it cleane out of the church or into a corner where it was not redde nor seene it ought to teach all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God be they neuer so well learned as long as the world should endure And if any man obiect that by thys meanes also is shut out of the churche the forme of ordinary prayers to be sayd I say the case is nothing lyke for when we pray we can not vse the words of the scripture as they orderly lie in the text But for so muche as the churche prayeth for diuers thyngs necessarye for it the whych are not contained in one or two places of the scripture and that also there are some thyngs whych we haue neede of whereof there is no expresse prayer in the scripture it is needefull that there be a forme of Prayer drawne forthe out of the scrypture whych the church may vse when it meeteth as the occasyon of the time dothe require whych necessity can not be by no meanes alledged in the reading of Homilies or Apochrypha Wherevpon appeareth that it is not so wel ordained in the churche of Englande where bothe Homilies and Apochrypha are red especially when as diuers chapters of the bookes called Apocrypha are lyfted vp so high that they are sometime appoynted for extraordinary lessons vpon feastes dayes wherin the greatest assemblies be made and some of the chapters of the canonicall scripture as certen chapters of the Apocalipse quite left oute and not red at all Vnto the two next sections I haue answeared before where I haue entreated of holy dayes and of kneeling at the Communion it followeth to speake vnto the section contained in the. 183. and. 184. pages ALthough it will be hard for you to proue that thys worde priest commeth of the Greke word presbyteros yet that is not the matter but the case stādeth in thys that for so much as the common and vsuall speach of England is to note by the word priest not a minister of the gospel but a sacrificer which the minister of the gospell is not therefore we ought not to call the ministers of the gospell priests and that thys is the Englishe speache it appeareth by all the English translations whych translate alwayes hiereis whych were sacrificers priests and do not of the other syde for any that euer I red translate presbyteron a priest Seeing therfore a priest wyth vs and in our tonge dothe signifye both by the papistes iudgement in respect of their abhominable masse and also by the iudgement of the protestant in respect of the beasts whych were offered in the law a sacrificing office whych the minister of the gospell neyther dothe nor can execute it is manifest that it can not be wythout great offence so vsed The next three sections I haue before answeared wher I haue spoken of the abuses in baptisme crossing and interrogatories it foloweth to speake vnto the section contained in 194. 195. 196. pa. IF it be M. Bucers iudgement whych is alledged heere for the ring I see that sometimes Homere sleapeth For first of all I haue shewed that it is not lawfull to institute new signes and sacraments and then it is dangerous to doe it especially in this whych confirmeth the false and popyshe opinion of a sacrament as is alledged by the admonition And thirdly to make suche fonde allegories of the laying downe of the money of the roundnes of the ring and of the mystery of the fourth finger is let me speake it wyth hys good leaue very ridiculous and farre vnlike hym selfe And fourthly that he wil haue the minister to preach vpon these toyes surely it sauoreth not of the learning and sharpnes of the
not be husbandmen crafts mē c. yet may haue ciuil offices I thinke far otherwise that although neither be lawfull yet the one were more tollerable then the other For seing after the ministery of the word there is no calling vnder the sunne weightyer and which requireth greater exercise of the mynde then the office of the magistrate it is agaynst all reason to lay this heauy burthen vpon a man that is already loden and hath as much as he is able to beare It were more equall if they will needes adde vnto the weyght of thys burthen to lay some lyghter charge of exercising handy craft then to breake hys backe with the charge of a cyuill magistrate And whereas in the pollicy of M. Doctor it semeth a furtherance to the gospell to ioyne these together which was also the pollicy of the Idolaters as I haue before declared in the wisedome of God it hath semed farre otherwyse which I doubt not dyd therfore separate the ministery from thys pompe whiche is commendable in the cyuill magistrate least the efficacy and power of the simplicitie of the word of God and of the mynistery should be obscured whilest men would attribute the conuersion of soules vnto the gospell dew vnto the worde and to the spirite of God to these gloryous shewes And least whylest the mynyster haue the woorde in one hande and the sword in the other men should not be able to iudge so well in their consciences of the mighty operation of the worde of God in them For they might doubt with them selues whether the feare out ward shew of the mynister caryed some stroke with them in beleuing the word But M. Doctor sayeth that cyuill offices are not to be counted worldly affayres but heauenly and spirituall it is so and yet when they are compared with the ecclesiasticall offices they may be called secular offices for so muche as they together with the care of relygion procure and prouide for the things wherby we may quietly and commodiously lyue here where the ecclesiasticall offices are immediatly and only bent to procure the glory of God and the saluation of men and in that signification of heauenly spirituall which you take marchandyse husbandry and the handy craft be heauenly and spyrituall although not in the same degree All lawfull callinges came from God returne to hym agayne that is he is both author of them and they ought to be referred to hys glory so that if the mynister may exercise all thinges which be heauenly and spirituall you may as well bring hym downe to the plough as promote hym to the courte And whereas M. Doctor sayth that the office of a commissyoner is ecclesiasticall because it handleth ecclesiasticall causes I meruayle that he is so ignorant that he can not put a difference betweene geuing iudyciall sentences and appoynting bodely punishmentes which are meere cyuill and betweene the vnderstanding the truth of euery such cause according as the worde of God defyneth of it which is a thing common as wel vnto the magistrate as vnto the minister and wherein the mynister because he ought to be most ready ought if neede be consulted with An other of Maister Doctors reasons is that as kinges doe serue Christ by making lawes for hym so byshoppes doe serue Christ by executing lawes for him As though it pertayned not vnto the magistrates to execute lawes aswell as to make them and as if the magistrate were not therefore called a speaking law because by executing them he doth cause the lawes after a fashion to speake Thys is to deuide the stake of the magistrate betwene hym and the byshop yea to geue the byshoppe the best part of it For wee know that with vs the people be at making of the lawes which may not meddle with the execution of them And if M. Doctor say that he meaneth not hereby to shut the prince from executing the lawes then as hys similytude when it is at the best proueth nothing so by thys meanes it haltes downe ryght and is no simylitude As for Elie and Samuell they are extraordinary examples which may thereby appeare for that both these offices first meting in Melchisedech afterward in Moses were by the commaundement of God seuered when as the Lord toke from Moses being so wise godly a man the priesthode gaue it to Aaron and to hys successors And so for so much as when the Lord would polishe hys church make it famous renoumed in the world he gaue thys order It appeareth that he wold haue this to be a perpetuall rule vnto his church And by so much it is the clearer for that the Lord did not tary vntil Moses death but toke the priesthode away frō Moses which was a man as able to execute both as eyther Elie or Samuell And thys may be also easely seene for that in a maner alwayes where there was any good and stayed estate of the churche these offices were mynistred by seuerall persons and then met were mingled when the estates were very ruinous and myserable And if thys be a good reason to proue that mynisters may exercise ciuill offices it is as good a reason to proue that princes may preach and mynister the sacramentes For if the mynisters may exercise ciuill offices because Elie and Samuell being mynisters did so the Princes and Iudges may preach the word and mynister the sacramentes because Elie and Samuell being princes and iudges dyd so And so we see how M. Doctor going about to defende one confusion bringeth in an other As for Elias killing the false prophetes and our sauiour Christes whipping out of the temple it is strange that Maister Doctor will alledge them as thinges to be followed when he may as well teach that we may cal for fire from heauen as Elias dyd and being demaunded answere nothing as our sauiour dyd as to follow these actions which are most singular and extraordinary And if these one or two examples be enough to breake the order that God hath set by thys a man may proue that the mynisters may be fyshers and tent makers because Peter and Paule being mynisters dyd fyshe and make tents And truely these are not so extraordinary and from the generall rule as the other be And it was permitted in a councell that rather then a mynister should haue two benefices he might labor with hys handes to supply hys want withall When S. Paule willed Tim. that he should not receiue an accusation agaynst an elder vnder two or three witnesses he dyd commit nothing les then any ciuill office vnto hym And M. Doctor hym selfe hath alledged it before as a thing incident to the office of a byshop and therefore he doth forget hymselfe maruellously now that maketh thys a ciuill office And doth M. Doctor thincke that S. Paule made magistrates Or is he of that iudgement that the church in the tyme of persecution may make ciuill officers
But it is true that he that is once ouer the shoes sticketh not to run ouer hys bootes And last of all to proue that byshoppes may haue prisons hee citeth Peter which punyshed Ananias and Saphira with death M. Doctor must vnderstand that thys was Ecclesiasticall power and was done by vertue of that function which S. Paule calleth dynamin which is one of those functions that the Lord placed in hys church for a tyme But is thys a good argument because S. Peter punished with the word therefore the mynister may punyshe with the sworde And because S. Peter dyd so once therefore the byshop may doe so alway because S. Peter dyd that which appertayneth to no ciuill magistrate and which no ciuill magistrate by any meanes may or can doe therefore the mynister may doe that which appertayneth vnto the ciuill magistrate For if there had bene a ciuill magistrate the same could not haue punyshed thys fault of dissimulation which was not knowen nor declared it selfe by any outwarde action So that if thys example proue any thing it proueth that the mynister may doe that no man may doe but the Lord only which is to punysh faultes that are hyd and vnknowne If thys be ignoraunce it is very grosse if it be agaynst knowledge it is more daungerous I haue determyned with my selfe to leaue vnto M. Doctor hys outcries and declamations and if I should haue vsed them as often as he geueth occasion there would be no end of wryting The Lord geue M. Doctor eyther better knowledge or better conscience Vnto M. Doctor asking where it appeareth that pope Eugenius brought in prysons into the church as also vnto three or foure such like demaunds which hee maketh in thys booke the authors of the Admonition answeare at once that thys and the other are sounde in Pantaleon and M. Bales Chronicles Heere I will take in that whych the byshop of Salesbury hath in the last page of hys halfe sheete touching thys matter And first of all I wel agree that he sayth that to geue vnto sathan which is to excommunicate and to correct an Ecclesiasticall person by reprehensyon or putting hym out of the ministerye if the case so require is meere ecclesiasticall and not ciuill and that those thyngs ought to be done of the offycers of the church Thys only I deny that the ministers ought to meddle wyth ciuill offyces For proofe whereof the B. alledgeth the example of Augustine whych as Possidonius wryteth was troubled wyth the hearing determinyng of causes Wherin Possidonius sayeth nothyng but that I willingly agree vnto For the minister wyth the elders ought bothe to heare and determine of causes but of suche causes as pertaine vnto their knowledge whereof I haue spoken before And that Possidonius ment such causes as belonged vnto Augustin as he was a minister and not of ciuill affaires it appeareth by that whych he wryteth immediatly after where he sayth Being also consulted of by certen in their worldly affaires he wrote epistles to diuers but he accompted of thys as of compulsyon and restraint from hys better busynesses whereby it appeareth that S. Augustine medled not wyth those worldly affaires further then by waye of giuing counsell whych is not vnlawful for a minister to do as one friend vnto an other so that hys mynisterye be not thereby hindered And for the truthe of thys matter that ministers ought not to meddle wyth ciuill affaires I will appeale to no other then to the byshop hym selfe who dothe affirme plainly the same that the admonition heere affirmeth And therfore I conclude that for so much as bothe the holy scriptures doe teache that ministers oughte not to meddle wyth ciuill offyces and reason and the practise of the church doe confirme it that they ought to kepe thēselues within the limites of the ministerye and Ecclesiasticall functions least whilest they breake forthe into the calling of a magistrate in steade of shewing themselues episcopous that is ouerseers they be found to declare themselues * allotriopiscopous that is busy bodyes medling in thyngs whych belong not vnto them And thus putting them in remembrance of that whych they knowe well enoughe that they ought cosman sparten hen elachon that is to say studye to adorne that charge whych they take in hande and doe professe I leaue to speake any further of thys matter Vnto the two next sections I haue spoken in that whych hathe bene sayde touchyng excommunication canons and prebendaries c. and vnto that whych is contained in the. 226. and. 227. I answere that I can not excuse couetous patrones of benefices but couetous parsons and vicars be a great plague vnto this church and one of the principall causes of rude and ignorant people Lykewise vnto the two next sectiōs I haue answeared before in speaking against the spirituall courts whych are now vsed and vnto the next after that in speaking of the ordayning of ministers And vnto that whych is contained in the later ende of the. 234. and the beginning of the. 235. I say that the church shall iudge of the aptnes or vnaptnes of our reasons and albeit we do finde fault with diuers thyngs in the booke yet we neyther oppugne as enemyes nor are by the grace of God eyther Papists Anabaptists Atheists or Puretanes as it pleaseth M. Doctor to call vs And to the prayer agaynst disturbers of the churche I say wyth all my heart Amen Vnto the next section I haue answeared in the treatise of the apparell And vnto the next after in the treatise whych declareth to whome it doth appertaine to make ceremonyes and orders of the church And vnto the section contained in the. 243. page I say that M. Doctor being asked of Oynions answeareth of garlike For the authors of the admonition desyring that it myght be as lawful for them to publishe by Printe their mindes or to be heard dispute or that theyr minde put in wryting myghte be openly debated maister D. answeareth wyth Augustines sentence whych he hath made the foote of hys song nothing to the purpose of that whych they said the performance of which promise we wil notwythstanding wayte for Vnto the section contayned in the. 245. and. 246. pages HEre maister Doctor contrary to the protestation of the authors of the Admonition whych declare that for the abuses and corruptions they dare not simply subscribe sayth that therfore they will not subscribe because they are required by lawfull authoritye Whych howe bothe presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is let all men iudge especially vpon this matter whych hath bene declared And where maister Doctor wold vpon the marginall note proue that we haue good discipline because we haue good doctrine and thervpon doth wonderfully tryumphe he playeth as he of whome it is sayde meden labon cratei carteros that is hauyng gotten nothyng holdeth it fast For can M. doctor be so ignorant that thys manner of speach doctrine and discipline
a light foote the Heades and Summes of things then to number the faultes which are almost as many as there are sentences in thys booke more I am sure then there are pages ACcording to my promise made in my boke I haue here set down the iudgement of the later wryters concerning these matters in controuersy betwene vs Wherein because I loue not to translate out of other mens workes whereby I might make myne to grow I haue kept thys moderation that I neither sette down all the wryters nor all their places that I could nor yet of euery singuler matter but the chefest wryters and other of the cheefest poyntes or else of those wherein they are alleadged agaynst vs by M. Doctor and one only place of eche as farre as I could iudge and choose out most direct to that wherefore I haue alleaged it For otherwyse if I would haue spoken of all the poyntes and of the iudgement of all the wryters and gathered all the places that I could they woulde haue bene sufficient matter of an other booke as bigge or rather bigger then thys I must also admonish the Reader that I haue for borne in certeine of these Titles to set downe the iudgements of M. Beza M. Bullinger and M. Gualter because they are comprehended in the Confessyon of the Churches And thus partly vpon those sentences which I haue alleaged in thys booke and partely vpon these Testimonies heere set downe I leaue to the consyderation of all men how truely and iustly it is sayde that the learned wryters of these tymes one or two onely excepted are agaynst vs. 1 That there ought now to be the same regiment of the Church which was in the Apostles tyme. THe confession of the Heluetian Tygurin Berne Geneua Polonia Hungary and Scotland with others in the. 18. chapter speaking of the equality of the ministers sayth that no man may iustly forbyd to returne to the old constitution of the church of God and to receiue it before the custome of man. M. Caluin in hys Institututions 4. booke 3. chapter and 8. section speaking of the auncientes which dyd assist the pastor in euery church sayth that experiēce teacheth that that order was not for one age that thys office of gouernment is necessary to all ages And in the. 12. chapter and first section of the same booke sayth as much of Excommunication and other Ecclesiasticall censures Peter Martyr vpon the third to the Rom. teacheth that although the common wealth chaunge her gouernment yet the church alwayes kepeth hers still Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ 15. chapter lamenteth that there were founde amongst those which are counted of the forwardest christians which woulde not haue the same disciplyne vsed now that was in the times of the Apostles obiecting the differences of tymes and of men 2. That one mynister ought not to haue any dominion ouer an other The foresayde Heluetian Confession c. in the seuententh Chapter sayeth that Christ dyd most seuerely prohibite vnto hys Apostles their successors primacy domynion in the 18. Chap. sayth that equall power function in geuen vnto all the mynisters of the church that from the beginning no one preferred him selfe to a nother sauing only the for order some one dyd call thē together propounde the matters that were to be consulted of gathered the voyces c. Musculus in hys Common places in the chap. of the offices of the mynisters of the word sayth that in the Apostolike church the ministers of the word were none aboue an other nor subiect to any heade or president mislyketh the setting vp of any one in higher degree then an other And further he sayth vppon the second chap. of the second Epistle to the Thessalonians that the honor of a byshop being taken from the rest of the mynisters and geuen to one was the first step to the papacie how so euer in other places he speaketh otherwyse 3. That the election of mynisters pertayneth not to one man. The foresayd Heluetian Confession c. in the. 18. Chapter sayth that the mynisters ought to be chosen of the church or by those which are lawfully deputed of the church and afterward ordayned with publike prayers M. Caluin in hys 4. booke of Institutions 3. chap. 15. section sheweth that the Church dyd chuse and that the Apostles dyd monderate the election and confuteth them which vpon the places of Titus and Timothe would proue that the election belongeth to one man. 4. That there ought now to be elders to gouerne the church with the Pastors and Deacons to prouide for the poore Touching Elders the iudgement of M. Caluin hath bene before declared in the first of these propositions M. Beza in hys booke of diuorces page 161. sayeth that the Eldershyp of the church ought to be where there is a Christian magistrate Touching Deacons M. Caluin 4. boke 3. chap. 9. section after that hee had described what deacons the churches had in the Apostles tymes sayeth that we after their example ought to haue the lyke M. Beza in the. 5. cap. and. 23. section of hys confessions sheweth that the office of the distribution of the goodes of the church is an ordinary function in a church lawfully constituted which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconship P. Martyr vpon the. 12. to the Rom. speaking of the Elders which did asist the pastor in euery Church of the Deacons lamenteth that thys order is so fallen out of the church that the names of these functions do skarce remayne M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ for the auncientes of the Church sayeth that the number of the Elders of euery church ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people and in the. 14. chap. of the same booke sayeth that thys order of Deaconshyppe was relygiously kept in the church vntill it was driuen out by Antichrist 5. That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Church M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. booke and. 11. chap. and. 6. section teacheth that Excommunication pertayneth not to one man that it was too wicked a fact that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other to himselfe alone opened a way to tyranny tooke from the Church her right and abrogated the church Senate ordayned by the spirite of Christ And in the. 12. chap. and. 7. section hee sayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Church M. Beza in hys confessions 5. chap. 43. section sayeth that thys power of excommunicating is geuen to no one man except it please God to worke extraordinarily Peter Martyr vpon the. 1. to the Corinthes and. 5. chap. sayeth that it is very daungerous to permit so waighty a matter as excommunication to the discretion and will of any one man And therfore both that tyranny might be auoyded and thys censure executed with greater frute
and grauitie that the order which the Apostle there vseth is still to be obserued M. Bucer of the kingdome of Christ in the. 1. booke and. 9. chap. sayeth that S. Paule accuseth the Corinthians for that the whole church dyd not cast out of their company the incestuous person 6. That Chauncelors Commissaries Officials c. vsurpe authority in the Church which belongeth not to them M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. boke 11. chap. 7. sect speaketh agaynst the office of Officials and alledgeth diuers reasons agaynst them as that they exercise that part of the Byshops charge and that they handle matters whiche pertayne not to the spirituall iurisdiction M. Beza in hys boke of Diuorces prouing that the iudiciall deciding of matrimonyall causes appertayneth vnto the cyuill magistrate sayeth that officials proctors and promoters and in a word all the swinish filth now of long time hath wasted the church Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. chap. to the Romaines speaking agaynst the ciuill iurisdiction of byshops doth by the same reason condemne it in their deputies the officials 7. That the mynisters of the worde ought not to exercise any ciuill offices and iurisdiction M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. boke 11. chap. 9. sect bringeth dyuers reasons to proue that byshops may neyther vsurpe nor take being geuen them eyther the right of the sword or the knowledge of ciuill causes M. Beza in hys Confessions chap. 5. sect 32. sayth that the Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction is to be distinguished from the ciuill and that although the byshops in the times of Christian Emperoures were troubled with the hearing of cyuill causes yet they dyd not that by any iudiciall power which they exercised but by a frendly entreaty of the parties which were at discorde and sayeth notwithstanding that herein the Emperors dyd geue too much to the ambytion of certayne byshoppes whereupon by little and by litle afterwarde all thinges were confounded And in the. 42. section sayeth that those corporall punyshmentes which the Apostles exercised were peculier and extraordinary Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. to the Romaines speaking of thys meeting of both Ecclesiasticall and ciuill iurisdiction in one man sayeth that when both the ciuill Ecclesiasticall functions do so meete that one hindreth the other so that he which exerciseth the one can not mynister the other M. Bucer vpon the. 5. of Mathew sayeth that there is no man so wise holy which is able to exercise both the ciuill the Ecclesiasticall power and that therfore he which will exercise the one must leaue the other 8. That the sacraments ought not to be priuately administred nor by women The forsayd confession .c. 20. holdeth that baptisme ought not to be mynistred by women or midwiues to the which also may be ioyned the Liturgy of the English church at Geneua which cōdemneth the mynistring of either of the sacraments in priuate houses or by women Peter Martyr vpon the. 11. chap. of the. 1. ep to the Corinthes in describing the corruptions of the Lordes supper noteth thys to be one that the church dyd not communicate altogether which corruption as it was in dyuers places in times past so he complayneth that it is now M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ and. 7. chap. proueth out of the. 10. to the Corinth that the whole church should receiue the supper of the Lord together and that the vse of the church of God in thys behalfe ought with great and dyligent endeuour to be restored vnto the churches that it is a contempt of the mysteries not to be partakers when they are called M. Beza agaynst Westphalus sheweth that it is not decent that baptisme be mynistred but in the church that at standing houres and by the mynisters and further that vppon no necessitie as it is called it ought to be mynistred in priuate houses And that if it might be mynistred in priuate houses yet no otherwyse then by mynisters M. Caluin in hys institutions 4. booke chap. 15. sect 20. 21. proueth that baptisme ought not to be mynistred by priuate men or by any women 9. The iudgement of those late wryters touching ceremonies and apparell whose secret Epistles M. Doctor alledgeth appeareth by these places folowing cited but of their workes Printed and published by them selues Wherof also some are alledged by the answerer to the examiner where are diuers other places to thys purpose wherunto I referre the Reader M. Bucer vpon the. 18. of Math. sayth that they say nothing which doe alwayes obiect that greater things must be vrged then the reformation of ceremonies therby defending the reliques of Antichrist forasmuch as ceremonies are testimonies of religion And that as there is no agreement betwene Christ and Belial so those which are sincere Christians can abyde nothing of Antichrist Peter Martyr vpon the .10 c. of the .2 booke of the kings sayeth that the Lutheranes must take heede least whilest they cut of many popishe errors they follow Iehu by retayning also many popish things For they defend still the reall presence in the breade of the supper and images and vestmentes c. and sayth that relygion must be wholy reformed to the quicke Bullinger in hys Decades 5. booke and. 9. sermon sayth that our sauior Christ the Apostles vsed their accustomed apparell in the supper and that although in times past the ministers put on a kynde of cloke vppon their common apparell yet that was done neither by the example of Christ nor of hys Apostles but by the tradition of man and that in the ende after the example of the priestes apparell in the olde law it was cast vpon the mynisters at the ministration of the supper But sayeth he we haue learned long agoe not only that all Leuiticall ceremonies are abrogated but also that they ought to bee brought agayne into the church of no man And therefore seing we are in the light of the gospell and not vnder the shadow of the law we doe worthely reiect that massing Leuiticall apparell Gualter vpon the. 21. of the Actes among others bringeth thys for one reason to improue Paules shauing of hys head for that the gospell had beene preached .xx. yeares and that therefore the infirmitie of the Iewes ought not to haue beene borne with And after hee sayeth that that teacheth how much the supersticious masters of ceremonyes hurte the gospell which nourishe the weakenes of fayth by the long keeping of ceremonyes and by their long bearing hynder the doinges of those mynisters which are more feruent FINIS Prouer. 8. 15. 2. Chap. 34. 60. chap. 12. 3. Deut. 25. 2. Samu. 7. 2. Psal 132. Esra 3. 3. 10. Agg. 1. 14. 2. kin 22. 23. 2. kin 18. 2. Chr. 17. 8 Chap. 17. 18 1. Cor. 1. 27. 28 2. Chro. 29. 34 2. Chr. 30. 17. 2. Kin. 5. 4. 14 1. Sam. 25. 18 1. Agg. 234. 1. Cor. 3. 12. 13 2. Cor. 6. 15. Cap. 2. 42. 43. Rom. 12. 18. 2. Cor. 10.
sette downe hys iudgement before needed not to haue repeated it here agayne But the Greeke wordes you say catakyrieuousin kai catexousiazousin doe signifie to rule wyth oppression and why may not I saye that thys preposition cata doth not signifie heere a peruersnesse of rule but an absolutenesse and a full power and iurisdiction as catamathein catalambanein is not to learne or to perceyue euilly and peruersly but to learne exactly and to perceiue throughly and perfectly but what neede we to followe coniectures in so playne a matter when as Saint Luke vseth the simple wordes without any composition of exousiazein Kai Kyrieuein doe you not perceyue that the preposition wherein you put so great confidēce deceiueth you besides the manifest vntruth you commit in saying that all three Euangelistes haue katexousiazousin katakyrieuousin Furthermore you say that our sauioure Christ sayeth not that no man shall be great amongst them but he that desireth to be great amongst them He had sayd so before when he had sayd it shall not be so amongst you and therefore needed not to repeate it and yet an other Euangelist sayeth not he that desireth to be great but let the greatest among you be as the least VVherby he doth not reprehend only the desire of being great but will not haue them to be one aboue an other To the last reason Last of all you conclude that our sauiour Christ in the 20. of Mathew reproueth the ambition of the sonnes of zebede and in the 22. of S. Luke all the rest of the Apostles I graunte you he dothe so and that coulde not be done better then in tellyng them that they desired things not meete for them and which woulde not stande with their calling And if as you say the ambition only was reprehended and the desire of rule to oppresse others wyth the answere you attribute to our sauioure is not so fitte For they myght haue replyed and sayde that he forbad tyrannicall rule and oppression of their inferioures but they desired that which was a moderate and well ruled gouernment And semeth it vnto you a probable thing that S. Luke meaneth tyrantes and oppressors when as he sayth they are called beneficiall or gracious Lordes men doe not vse to call oppressors liberall or bountifull Lordes Neyther is it to be thought of all the Apostles that they desired rule one ouer an other to the ende that they would vse crueltie or tyrannie or oppression one ouer an other for that were to doe them great iniurie Besides that it is sayde that the rest of the disciples disdayned at the two brethren whyche they would not haue done if they had had any purpose or mynde to haue oppressed them For then they would haue contemned them rather then haue disdayned them if they had broken out into suche grose faultes For Aristotle teacheth that nemesis which is the same that aganactesis is the verbe whereof the Euangelist vseth is agaynst those that are supposed of them that beare the disdayne to be lifted vp higher and into better estate then they are worthy of whych agreeth wyth that interpretation whyche I haue alleaged and can not agree wyth the other whych you set downe For who speaking properly would speake after thys sort The residue of the Apostles disdayned at the two brethren or thought them vnworthy that they should beare tyrannicall rule ouer them To the section that beginneth touching the place in 23. of Mathew and so vntill howe aptly Concerning the exposition and sence of that place I agree with you and suppose that it is quoted of the authors of the admonition rather to note the ambition of certayne which gape greedely at these byshopprickes which we haue to the ende they mighte be saluted by the name of Lordes and honoures then to proue that one minister should not haue dominion ouer an other And therefore although these places be agaynst no lawfull authoritie of any estate or condition of men yet as they are aptly alledged against the bishop of Rome the one against his estate and authoritie simply the other agaynst hys tyrannie and euill vsage of hym selfe in that authoritie so it may be aptly alleaged agaynst any other which shall fall into the like fault of the byshop of Rome The purenesse that we boast of is the innocencie of our sauioure Christ who shall couer all our vnpurenesse not impute it vnto vs And for so much as fayth * purifyeth the hart we doubt not but God of his goodnes hath begon our sanctification and hope that he will make an ende of it euen vntill the day of our Lord Iesus Albeit we holde dyuers poyntes more purely then they doe which impugne them yet I know none that by comparison hath eyther sayd or written that all those that thinke as we doe in those poyntes are more holy and more vnblameable in life then any of those that thinke otherwise If we say that in those poynts which we holde from them we thinke soundlier then they doe we are ready to proue it If we say also that we lyue not so offensiuely to the world commonly by getting so many lyuinges into our handes as would finde foure or fiue good learned able ministers all the worlde will beare vs witnes Other purenes we take not vpon vs And therefore as the name was first by the Papistes maliciously inuented so is it of you very vnbrotherly confirmed Whereas you say that they are Puritanes which suppose the church which they haue deuised to be without all impuritie if you meane without sinne you doe notably slaunder them and it is already answered If you meane that those are Puritanes or Catharans which do set forth a true and perfect patern or platforme of reforming the church then the marke of thys heresy reacheth vnto those which made the booke of common prayer which you say is a perfect and absolute rule to gouerne this church wherein nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer nor too much As for the Catharans which were the same that are otherwise called Nouatians I know no suche opynion they had they whome you charge are as farre from their corruption as you be An answere to that which is contayned in the. 20. 21. and 22. page vntill Now if eyther godly Councels YOu geue occasion of suspition that your end will be skarce good which haue made so euill a beginning For whereas you had gathered out of the Admonition that nothing should be placed in the Church but that God hath in hys word commaunded as though the wordes were not playne enough you wil geue them some light by your exposition And what is that you answere that it is as much as though they would say nothing is to be tollerated in the church of Christe touching eyther doctryne order ceremonies disciplyne or gouernment except it be expressed in the word of god Is thys to interprete is it all one to say nothing
But I will not draw the reader to suche thorney and subtile questyons it is enough for vs that the one and the other be impossible although one shoulde bee more impossible then the other And that it is impossible for one man to bee byshoppe ouer a whole prouince or ouer a whole dyocese I leaue it to bee considered of that which is before sayde in the discription of the office of a byshoppe pastor or minister where I speake of the necessitie of the residence of the byshop in hys church As a Prince may rule a whole realme such as Fraunce or Englande so may he rule the whole world by officers and magistrates appoynted vnderneath hym And there haue bene dyuers Princes which haue had as many landes vnder their power as the Pope hath had churches and although it be somewhat incōuenient yet I know not why they might not so haue comming lawfully by them Now I woulde gladly heare whether you woulde say the same of a byshoppe and if you dare not then why doe you bring the similitude of the gouernment of a Prince ouer a lande to proue that an archbyshop may be ouer a whole prouince M. Doctor dare boldly say that there may be one byshop ouer a whole prouince but he dare not say that there may be a byshop ouer the whole Church But what better warrant for the one then for the other Agayne if the whole church be in one prouince or in one realme which hath bene and is not impossible to be agayne if there may be now one byshop ouer a realme or prouince then there may be one byshop ouer all the church so that in trauayling with an archbyshop he hath brought forth a Pope But he sayth that an archbyshop hath not the charge of gouernment ouer the whole prouince generally but in cases exempted so may doe it more easely But he should haue remembred that he assigned before the offices of archbyshop byshop to be in all those things which other ministers are that besides those offices he geueth them particulare charges So that where the office of the minister is but to preach pray minister the sacraments in hys parish the office of archbyshop bishop is to do the same and more in the whole prounice or diocese And so it followeth that it is easyer for a minister to discharge his duetie in hys parish then for an archbyshop or byshop to discharge their dueties in any one parishe of their prouince or diocese For they haue in euery parish more to doe and greater charge then the mynister of the paryshe hath then much lesse are they able to doe their dueties in all the paryshes of theyr prouinces or dyocese After M. Doctor translateth out of M. Caluin the papistes reasons for the supremacy of the Pope and M. Caluines solutions For what purpose hee knoweth I can not tell vnles it be to blot paper I know not what he shoulde meane and the quarell also which he picketh to translate thys place is yet more strange For he sayth that the authors of the admonition borowed their argumentes from the papistes when the contrary is true that they vse the reasons which they of the gospell vse agaynst the supremacy of the pope to ouerthrow the archbyshoppe And maister Doctor doth vse reasons to defende the archbyshop which the papistes vse to mayntayne the Pope For M. Doctor woulde proue that for because there is one king ouer a realme therefore there may be one byshop ouer a prouince and the papistes vse the same reason to proue the Pope to be a byshop of the whole church Shew now one reason that the authors of the admonition brought of the papistes to proue that there should be no archbyshop But now I perceiue hys meaning and that is that he thought to gette some comfort for the archbishop in M. Caluins solutions made vnto the papistes reasons for the supremacy and therfore he hath haled and pulled in as it were by the shulders thys disputation betwene the protestants and the papistes touching the supremacy And what is it that M. Caluin sayth for the archbyshop It hath bene before shewed what his iudgement was touching hauing one mynister ouer all the mynisters of a prouince and that he doth simply condemne it in hys commentary vpon the first chap. of the Phillippians Now let it be considered whether in these sentences he hath sayd any thing against hym selfe The papistes obiect that for so much as there was one high priest in Iury ouer all the church therfore there should be one byshop ouer all To whom M. Caluin answeareth that the reason followeth not for sayth he there is no reason to extend that to all the world which was profitable in one nation Heereupon M. Doctor would conclude that M. Caluine allowath one archbyshop ouer a whole prouince If one going about to proue that he may haue as many wiues as hee list woulde alledge Iacob for an Example which had two wyues and Maister Doctor should answere and say that although hee myght haue two wyues yet it followeth not that he may haue as many as he list would not Maister Doctor thinke that he had great iniurye if a man should conclude of these wordes that hys opynion is that a man may haue two wyues I thinke that he would suppose that he had great wrong and yet thus would he conclude of Maister Caluines wordes in thys first sentence whereas in deede M. Caluine declareth a little after a speciall reason why there was but one high priest in the whole land of Iury which is because he was a figure of Christ and that therby shuld be shadowed out hys sole meditation betwene God his church And therefore sheweth the forsomuch as there is none to represent or figure our sauiour Christ that his iudgement is that as there shoulde be no one ouer all the churches so should there be no one ouer any nation To the papistes obiecting for the supremacy that S. Peter was the prince cheefe of the apostles M. Caluin answereth first by denying that Peter was so and bringeth many places to proue that he was equall to the other apostles Afterward he sayth although it be graunted that Peter was cheefe yet followeth it not because one may beare rule ouer twelue being but a few in number that therefore one may rule ouer an hundreth thousand that it followeth not that that which is good amongst a few is forth with good in all the world Now let all men iudge with what conscience trust M. Doct. cyteth M. Caluin for to proue the office of the archbyshop But I maruell that he could not also see that which M. Caluin wryteth in the next sentence almost where he sayth that Christ is only the head of the church and that the church doth cleaue one to an other vnder his domynion but by what meanes according sayth he to the order and forme of pollicy which he
hath prescribed but he hath prescribed no such forme of pollicy that one byshop should be ouer all the mynisters and churches in a whole diocese or one archbyshop ouer all the ministers and churches in a whole prouince therefore thys forme of pollicy which is by archbyshops and such byshops as we haue is not the meanes to knitte vs one to an other in vnitie vnder the domynion of Christ Touching the titles and names of honor which are geuen to the Ecclesiasticall persones with vs and how that princes and cyuill magistrates may and ought to haue the title which can not be geuen to the mynisters I haue spoken before and therefore of archbyshops archdeacons and the lord byshops thus farre To the next section contayned in the. 77. 78. and a peece of the. 79. page BEfore I come to speake of prayers I will treate of the faults that are committed almost thrughout the whole Leyturgy publike seruice of the church of England Whereof one is that which is often obiected by the authors of the admonition that the forme of it is taken from the church of Antichrist as the reading of the Epistles and Gospels so cutte mangled as the most of the prayers the maner of mynistring the Sacraments of Mariage of Buriall Confirmation translated as it were word for word sauing that the grosse erroures and manifest impieties be taken away For although the formes ceremonies which they vsed were not vnlawfull and that they contayned nothing which is not agreeable to the word of God which I would they dyd not yet notwithstanding neyther the worde of God nor reason nor the examples of the eldest churches both Iewishe and christian doe permitte vs to vse the same formes and ceremonies being neyther commaunded of God neyther such as there may not as good as they and rather better be established For the word of God I haue shewed before both by the example of the apostles conforming the Gentiles vnto the Iewes in their ceremonies not contrariwise the Iewes to the Gentiles by that the wisedom of God hath thought it a good way to keepe hys people from the infection of idolatry and superstition to seuere them from idolaters by outwarde ceremonies and therefore hath forbidden them to do things which are in them selues very lawfull to be done Now I will adde thys further that when as the Lord was carefull to seuere them by ceremonies from other nations yet was he not so carefull to seuere them from any as from the * Egiptiās amongst whom they liued from those nations which were next neighbors vnto them because from them was the greatest feare of infection Therefore by this constant perpetuall wisedome which God vseth to keepe his people from idolatry it followeth the the religion of God should not only in matter substance but also as far as may be informe fashion differ from the of the idolaters especially the papistes which are round about vs and amongst vs For in deede it were more safe for vs to conforme our indifferent ceremonies to the Turkes which are far of then to the papistes which are so neare Common reason also doth teach that contraries are cured by their contraryes now Christianitie and Antichristianitie the gospell and popery be contraries therefore antichristianitie must be cured not by it selfe but by that which is as much as may be contrary vnto it So that a medled mingled estate of the order of the gospell the ceremonies of popery is not the best way to banish popery And therfore as to abolishe the infection of false doctrine of the papistes it is necessary to establish a diuers doctrine to abolish the tirāny of the popish gouernment necessary to plant the discipline of Christ so to heale y infection y hath crept into mens myndes by reason of the popish order of seruice it is meete that the other order were put in the place thereof Philosophie which is nothing else but reason teacheth that if a man will draw one from vice which is an extreeme vnto vertue which is the meane that it is the best way to bring hym as far from that vice as may be and that it is safer and lesse harme for him to be led somewhat too farre then he shuld be suffered to remayne within the borders and contines of that vice wherewith he is infected As if a man would bring a droncken man to sobrietie the best and nearest way is to cary hym as farre from hys excesse in druicke as may be and if a man could not keepe a meane it were better to fault in prescribing lesse then he shoulde drincke then to faulte in geuing hym more then he ought As we see to bring a sticke which is crooked to be straight we doe not only bow it so farre vntill it come to be straight but we bende it so far vntill we make it so crooked of the other side as it was before of the first side to thys end that at the last it may stand straight and as it were in the mid way betwene both the crookes which I do not therfore speake as though we ought to abolishe one euill and hurtfull ceremony for an other but that I would shew how it is more daungerous for vs that haue bene plunged in the mire of Popery to vse the Ceremonies of it then of any other idolatrous and superstitious seruice of god Thys wisedome of not conforming it selfe vnto the ceremonies of the Idolaters in things indifferent hath the church followed in times passed Tertullian sayth O sayth he better is the relygion of the heathen for they vse no solemnitie of the Christians neyther the Lordes day neyther the Pentecoste and if they knew them they woulde haue nothing to doe with them for they would be afrayd least they should seeme Christians but we are not afrayd to be called heathen Constantine the Emperor speaking of the keeping of the feaste of Easter sayth that it is an vnworthy thing to haue any thing common with that most spitefull company of the Iewes And a little after he sayth that it is most absurd and agaynst reason that the Iewes should vaunt and glory that the Christians could not keepe those things without their doctrine And in an other place it is sayd after thys sort It is conuenient so to order the matter that we haue nothing common with that nation The Councelles although they dyd not obserue them selues alwayes in making of decrees thys rule yet haue kept thys consideration continually in making theyr lawes that they would haue the christians differ from others in their ceremonies * The councell of Laodicia which was afterward confirmed by the sixthe generall councell decreed that the Christians should not take vnleauened breade of the Iewes or communicate with their impietie * Also it was decreed in an other councell that they should not decke theyr houses with baye leaues and greene
God as also as S. Paule teacheth a declaration and profession that wee are at one with oure brethren so that it is fyrst a sacrament of the knitting of all the body generally and of euery member particularly with the heade and then of the members of the body one with an other Now therefore seeing that euery particular church and body of Gods people is a representation and as it were a liuely portraiture of the whole church and body of Christ it followeth that that which we can not doe with all the church scattered throughout the whole world for the distances of places whereby we are seuered we ought to doe with that church whereunto God hath raunged vs as much as possibly or conueniently may be The departing therefore of the rest of the church from those three or fower is an open profession that they haue no communion fellowshippe nor vnitie with them that doe communicate and lykewise of those three or foure that they haue none with the rest that ioyne not them selues thereunto when as both by the many grapes making one cuppe and cornes making one loafe that whole church being many parsons are called as to the vnitie which they haue one with an other and altogether amongst them selues so to the declaration and profession of it by receiuing one with an other and altogether amongst them selues And as if so be that we do not celebrate as we may possibly and conueniently the supper of the Lord we thereby vtter our want of loue towardes the Lord which hath redeemed vs so if we doe not communicate together with the churche so farre forth as we may do conueniently we betray the want of our loue that we haue one towardes an other And therefore S. Paul dryuing heereunto willeth that one shoulde tary for an other reprehending that when one preuenteth and commeth before an other saying that that is to take euery man hys owne supper and not to celebrate the Lords supper Not that so many men or women as there came so many tables were for that had not bene possible in so great assemblyes but that they sorted them selues into certayne companyes and that they came scattering one after an other and that in stead of making one supper of the Lord they dyd make dyuers These things being considered the reason which the Admonition vseth in the 185. page where thys matter is spoken of which is drinke you all of thys is not so rydiculous as M. Doctor maketh it For although that it doe neyther proue that 12. or 20. or any other definite number must of necessitie receyue yet it proueth that as all they which were present dyd communicate And so as many as in the church are fit to receiue the sacraments or may conueniently receiue them together shoulde follow that example in celebrating the supper together And it is probably to be thought that if our sauiour Christ had not bene restrayned by the law of God touching the passeouer vnto hys owne family and to as many onely as would serue to eate vppe a Lambe by them selues that he would haue celebrated hys supper amongst other of hys disciples and professoures of hys doctryne But for so muche as it was meete that hee shoulde celebrate hys supper there and then where and when hee dyd celebrate hys passeouer for the cause before by me alleaged it pleased hym to keepe hys first supper with the fewer for that the law of communication vnto the passeouer which was ioyned wyth the supper woulde not admit any greater number of communicants then was sufficient to eate vp the passeouer And althoughe it be cleare and playne that when it is sayde drincke ye all of thys and tary one for an other these sayinges are ment of that particulare congregation or assembly which assemble themselues together to be taught by one mouth of the mynister yet I haue therefore put thys caution as muche as may be possyble least any man shoulde cauill as though I would haue no communion vntill all the godly through the world should meete together Likewise I haue put thys caution as much as may be conueniently for although it be possible that a perticulare church may communicate at one table in one day and together yet maye the same be inconuenient for dyuers causes As if the number should be very great so that to haue them all communicate together it would require suche a long tyme as the tarying out of the whole action would hazarde eyther the lyfe or at least the health of dyuers there Agayne for as much as other some being at the churche it is meete that other should be at home vppon occasyon of infantes and suche lyke thinges as require the presence of some to tary at home In these cases and suche lyke the inconueniences doe delyuer vs from the gilte of vncharitablenes and forsaking the fellowship of the church for that wee doe not heere seuere oure selues but are by good and iust causes seuered which gilte wee shall neuer escape if beside suche necessarye causes wee pretende those that are not or hauing not so muche as a pretence yet notwythstanding seperate our selues as the dayly practise thorough out the church doth shew But it may be obiected that in thys poynt the booke of Common prayer is not in fault which doth not only not forbid that all the church should receiue together but also by a good godly exhortation moueth those that be present that they should not departe but communicate altogether It is true that it doth not forbid and that there is godly exhortation for that purpose but that I say is not enough for neither should it suffer that three or foure should haue a communion by them selues so many being in the church meete to receiue and to whom the supper of the Lord doth of right appertaine it ought to prouide that those whych woulde wythdrawe them selues shoulde be by Ecclesiasticall discipline at all times and now also vnder a godly Prince by ciuill punishment brought to communicate wyth their brethren And thys is the law of God and thys is now and hath bene heeretofore the practise of churches reformed All men vnderstand that the passeouer was a figure of the Lords supper and that there should be as straight bonds to binde men to celebrate the remembrance of our spirituall deliuerance as there was to remember the deliuerance out of Egipt But whosoeuer did not then communicate with the rest at that time when the passeouer was eaten was excommunicated as it may appeare in the boke of Numbers where he sayeth that whosoeuer did not communicate being cleane his soule should be cut off from amongst the people of god Therfore thys neglect or contempt rather of the Lordes supper ought to be punished wyth no les punishment especially when as after the church hath proceeded in that order whych our sauior Christ appoynteth of admonishing they be not sory for their fault and promise
amendement And that this was the custome of the churches it may appeare by the. 9. of those canons whych are fathered of the apostles wher it is decreed that all the faithfull that entred into the congregation and heard the scriptures red and dyd not tary out the prayers the holy Communion should be as those whych were causers of disorders in the church seperated from the church or as it is translated of an other depriued of the Communion Also in the councell of Braccara it was decreed that if any entring into the church of God heard the Scriptures and afterward of wantonnes or losenes wythdrewe hym selfe from the communion of the sacrament and so brake the rule of discipline in the reuerende sacraments should be put out of the church till such time as he had by good frutes declared hys repentaunce But heere also may rise an other doubt of the former wordes of Moses in the boke of Numbers for seing that he maketh thys exception if they be cleane it may be sayd that those that depart do not fele themselues mete to receiue and therfore depart the other .iij. or .iiij. or moe feele themselues meete and disposed for that purpose whervpon it may seeme that it is neither reason to compell those to come which feele not themselues meete nor to reiect them that feele that good disposition and preparation in themselues For answer whervnto we must vnderstand that the vncleannes whych Moyses speaketh of was such as men could not easely auoid and whervnto they might fall sometimes by necessary duety as by handling their dead whych they were by the rule of charitye bound to burye sometimes by touching at vnwares a deade body or by sitting in the place where some vncleane body had sitten or by touching such things whych the law iudged vncleane which thing cannot be alleaged in those that are now of the church For as many as be of it and wythall of suche discretion as are able to proue and examine themselues can haue no excuse at all if they may be at the church to withdraw themselues from the holy supper of the lord For if they will say that they be not meete it may be answered vnto them that it is their owne fault and further if they be not meete to receiue the holy sacrament of the supper they are not meete to heare the woord of God they are not meete to be partakers of the prayers of the church and if they be for one they are also for the other For with that boldnes and wyth that duetye or lawfulnes I speake of those whych are of the church and of discretion to examine themselues I say wyth what lawfulnes they may offer themselues to the prayers and to the hearing of the word of God they may also offer themselues vnto the Lordes supper And to whomsoeuer of thē the Lord wil communicate himselfe by preaching the word vnto the same he wil not refuse to communicate himselfe by receiuing of the sacramēts For whosoeuer is of Gods housholde and familye he neede not be afraide to come to the Lords table nor dout but that the Lord will fede him there and whatsoeuer he be that is a membre of the body of Christ may be assured that he receiueth life frō Christ the head as well by the arteries condints of the supper of the Lord as by the preaching of the word of god So that it must needes folow that the not receiuing of those whych depart out of the church whē there is any communion celebrated procedeth either of vaine and superstitious feare growing of grose ignorance of themselues and of the holy sacraments or else of an intollerable negligence or rather contempt of the whych neither the one nor the other shuld be either borne wyth or nourished either by permitting .iij. or .iiij. to communicate alone or els in letting them whych depart go so easely away with so great a fault whych ought to be seuerely punished And vpon thys either contempt or superstitious feare drawne from the papists Lenton preparation of 40. dayes eareshrift displing c. it commeth to pas that men receyuing the supper of the Lord but seldome when they fall sicke must haue the supper ministred vnto them in their houses whych otherwise being once euery weke receiued before should not brede any such vnquietnes in thē when they can not come to receiue it Although as I haue before shewed if they had neuer receiued it before yet that priuate receiuing were not at any hand to be suffered And thus hauing declared what I thinke to be faulty in the communion boke in thys poynt and the reasons why and wyth all answeared to that whych eyther M. doctor alleageth in thys place of the. 80. and. 81. and likewise in the. 152. 185. pages touching thys matter I come now vnto that whych is called the Iewishe purifying by the admonition and by the seruice boke afore time the purification of women Now to the churching of women in the which title yet kept there seemeth to be hid a great part of the Iewish purification For lyke as in the old law shee that had brought forthe a childe was holden vncleane vntill suche time as shee came to the temple to shew her selfe after shee had brought forthe a man or a woman so thys terme of churching of her canseme to import nothing els thē a banishment as it were a certen excommunication from the church during the space that is betwene the time of her deliuery of her comming vnto y church For what doth els thys churching implie but a restoring her vnto y church whych cā not be without some bar or shutting forth presupposed It is also called the thanks giuing but the principall title whych is the directory of this part of the Liturgie placed in the top of the leafe as the whych the translator best liked of is churching of women To pas by the that it wil haue thē come as nigh the communion table as may be as they came before to y high altare because I had spoken once generally against such ceremonies y of all other is most Iewish approcheth nerest vnto the Iewish purification y she is commaūded to offer accustomed offrings Wherin besides that the very word offring caryeth with it a strong sent suspitiō of a sacrifice especially being vttered simply without any addition it can not be without danger that the boke maketh the custome of the popish church whych was so corrupt to be the rule measure of this offring And although the meaning of the boke is not the it shuld be any offring for sin yet this manner of speaking may be a stūbling stock in the way of y ignorant simple the wicked obstinate therby are confirmed hardned in their corruptions The best which can be answered in this case is the it is for the relief of the minister but thē it shuld be