is to be created Pastor be of a vicious and scandalous life The second belongs not to every one of the People but only to Church-Officers who are presumed capable to judge of Doctrine and of his ability for the Ministery Now whether this belongs to Pastors alone or to the Ruling Elders also I will not dispute only they say that they only can examine his Doctrine that have the capacity to judge of it To these two may be referred the voycing of his probitie and capacity for his Doctrine which belongs to the Pastors and Elders or to the Representative Church for howsoever the People may assist at the Action to accuse the person that is to be received of ill life or false doctrine or of ignorance yet for the Reasons above proposed they are not to be accepted in voycing either of his life or Doctrine but that belonging to the Pastors alone 1 Tim. 3.15 and chap. 5. v. 11 22. The third viz. the right of Ordination or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seemes only to belong to the Pastors neither doe our Brethren deny it and it may be proved from 1. Tim. 3.14 Tit. 1.5 As for the Admission or Acceptation of a Minister into a particular Church it belongs to the people or to the whole Congregation for as a Husband is not to be urged upon a woman against her will but it being not Concubitus consensus qui facit matrimonium no more is a Pastor upon a particular Church and howsoever he may goe to the Pulpit and preach among them yet unlesse they consent he is not their Minister Now to apply this to the present Passage I say that the examen of life and Doctrine in this Election of Matthias belonged to the Apostles and other Church Officers whereunto might be admitted such of the People as had the capacity so did the Deliberative and the Decisive voycing as likewise the power of Ordination belonged to the church-Church-Officers alone And yet the People were there 1. to propound if they knew any impediment against his Vocation 2. to know that he was chosen 3. to admit him as a Minister of the Universall Militant Church upon Earth and in this they might voyce 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. by giving their consent in stretching out their hands Neither can they or any man living draw any more from this Text But note here that the Vocation of a Minister Essentially and Formally consists in the Decisive voycing and in his Ordination The examen of his life and Doctrine are only Antecedents and the Admission of the people only Consequents of the Vocation and so Accidentally it belongs to the People but Essentially to church-Church-Officers only But what if the Congregation will not admit the Minister that is ordained A. I answer 1. That the Representative Church should not ordaine a Minister till they be assured of some Flock or Congregation that will admit him for their Minister 2. That if after they have promised to admit him they admit him not they doe wrong to the Church He is their true Pastor and they are to be commanded to admit him even as a woman that hath lawfully consented to marriage by her contracting of her selfe to such a man 3. If they will not obey neverthelesse he is a Minister yea their Minister and hath power to teach though he cannot exercise it for want of a Flock But it concernes the Church to provide him of some Flock 7. Others answer that the People may have a hand in the Election of their Church-Officers in Ecclesia constituenda such as this was but not in constituta The Passage which our Brethren bring out of Acts 6.2 3. and 5 6. prove not That every one of the people had power of Iurisdiction and of the voycing in the Election of the seven Deacons to the exclusion of children yong men men of weak Iudgement notorious Sinners and women for the Text hath no such thing in it 2. It may be doubted whether the multitude of the Disciples v. 2 3. signifie the promiscuous multitude or the multitude of the seventy Disciples chosen by Christ 3. But suppose it signifie generally Christs Disciples and not precisely those seventy yet it is not said that they created or ordained the Elders 4. The contrary may be concluded from the v. 4 5. Then the Twelve called the multitude of the Disciples unto them and said Looke yee among you seven men of honest report full of the Holy Ghost and wisedome whom we may appoint over this Businesse where yee see that the Apostles appointed their Deacons and not the People only the People sought out those seven men as knowing better what kind of men were among them then the Apostles And they presented them to the Apostles to be examined in their lives and Doctrine before the Church-Officers and to be ordained by them So that the Apostles 1. ordained the Office 2. commanded the People to seeke out honest Men. 3. examined them 4. and appointed or ordained them The people only had the power to inquire of their lives and to admit or approve them by their consent and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. 5. After that They were ordained by the Church-Officers that were present in the whole Action and had seen all things passed without partiality as I have above declared 5. If the People had had any voyce here which cannot be collected out of this Text yet it should only follow that they had this power in Ecclesiâ constituendâ but not in constitutâ i. e. in the first Institution of Churches or church-Church-Officers but not in a Church already established and furnished with all her ordinary church-Church-Officers say others The Place Acts 14. verse 22. whereon they insist so much hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and when they had ordained them Elders in every Church Here they conceive that the word signifies to create Ministers by Suffrages of the People who had voyce in the creating of Elders A. To this some answer and that very probably that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath three divers significations 1. that it signifies the same that the latin word suffragari or porrectis manibus suffiagia ferre to give their approbation by lifting up or stretching out their Hands 2. to choose in any fashion whatsomever Acts 10. verse 41.3 for the imposition of Hands commonly called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so it is taken in some of the Fathers Writings so they say that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here may be taken either in the second or third signification and that it cannot be proved from the Text that it is taken in the first But they take that for granted which they are not able to prove 2. Put the case it signifie here to ordaine by the Consent of the Peopte yet followes it not that this Consent of the People was a Voyce because it was not asked of every man a part neither hath the Text that nor can it be
transgression of the Politicall Law of Moses c. yea it is probable that they were not abrogated at all by Christ among the people of the Iewes since they were Juris Naturalis quoad substantiam Politici quoadmodum for he came not to abrogate but to fulfill the Law And so hath all the Christian world hitherto understood this Passage whose Iudgements we cannot easily reject without some solid ground and so much the rather for that since Iesus Christ his time till some forty or fifty yeares agoe or thereabouts never any man of esteeme did ever dreame of such a Popular and confused Government if yee except Morellies And so is the word Ecclesia taken Deut 31.28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Septuagint translates it gather unto me all the Elders of your Tribes and Officers and Deut. 23. v. 1 2 3. it is commanded that he that is hurt by Bursting or hath his privie members cut off that is a Bastard an Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the Congregation or Ecclesia even to the Tenth Generation Here Ecclesia or Congregation cannot signifie the Reall but the Representative Congregation For it had been unjust to exclude any man from the reall Church consequently from Gods Covenant that desired to be therein If it had been so they could not have received any Proselytes which is against Gods Law Exod. 23.48 where it is commanded to admit unto the Passeover all Strangers that would be circumcised so that which was said to the Elders of Israel that were the Representative Congregation Exod. 2.16 is said to have been said to the Sons of Israel that were the Reall Congregation Exod. 14. and the Text confirmes it for Moses had not charge to say that the Lord would bring up out of Affliction the Elders only but also the People 25. This Doctrine at once condemnes all the Martyrs and Councells and all their practise in Ecclesiasticall Government 26. Our Brethren holde that the absent part of the Church may give over or remit their power of Iudging to them that are present and that the lesser part are bound to acquiesce with the major part in voycing wherefore then may not all the People give over or remit their power of Iudging to a certaine number of the wisest such as the Representative Church is or acquiesce unto their Iudgements 27. To whom the Apostles in the first Constitution of the Church at their last Farewells committed the power of Iurisdiction and Ordination to those it is to be committed at this present But to church-Church-Officers or to the Representative Body of the Church alone did the Apostles in the first Constitution of the Church at their last Farewell committed the power of Iurisdiction Ordination c. Acts 20. 1 Pet. 5. Ergo. But our Brethren reply that we cannot shew any Place in all the holy Scriptures or prophane Authors where the word Church is taken in this signification viz. for the Representative Church or Congregation A. Whereunto we answer 1. That the stile of Scripture must not be sought in prophane Authors but in Scripture it selfe 2. Some give some Examples in prophane Authors 3. In Scripture our Adversaries will never finde any place wherein the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken for all the Reall Parochiall Church to the exclusion of children women all those that have not the use of Reason and that are notoriously vicious as it is taken by themselves 4. We on the other side to confirme the signification wherein it is taken by us viz. for the Representative Congregation present them with these places 1 Exod. 3. v. 14. Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel i. e. unto the representative Body of the children of Israel viz. the Elders of Israel gathered together as it is expounded v. 16.2 Exod. 12. In the institution of the Passeover v. 3. Speake yee unto all the Congregation of Israel i. e. the Elders which were the Representative Body of Israel as it is expounded v. 21. and Reason confirmes it for they could not in so short a time speake to all the Reall Congregation composed of so many thousands neither could they easily be gathered together into one place nor could it be done without apparent danger Item Numb 35.24 in speaking of Murther through ignorance the Revenger of the blood and the Cities of Refuge It is said that the Congregation shall Iudge between the slaine and the Revenger of Blood according to those Iudgements without doubt the Congregation here cannot signifie all the Reall but the Representative Congregation i. e. the Elders 1. Because so it is expounded Deut. 19.2 and Iosua 20.4 5 6. 2. because it was not for every one of the people or the Reall Congregation but belonged to the Elders that were the Representative Body thereof to Iudge of the Blood And Deut. 31.28 Gather unto me all the Elders of your Tribes and your Officers the 70. turne it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifie to congregate By the Rules of Conjugata it followes that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies a Congregation that was congregated or gathered together from amongst the rest But the Ecclesia or Congregation that was here gathered together was not all the Reall but the Representative Congregation consisting of Elders c. as appeares by the Text Ergo. So it is said that Solomon assembled the Elders of Israel and all the Heads of the Tribes c. 1 Reg. 8.1 And that David assembled all the Princes c. 1 Chro. 28.1 so the word Congregation is taken for the Representative Body thereof 1 Chro. 13.1 2 3 4 for David could not speake to all the Congregation but to the Captaines and Chieftaines thereof as it appeares v. 1. and 4. 5. neither could they all goe with him Deutrinomy 23.1 2 3. It is commanded that neither he who is bursten or that hath his privie members cut off or that is a Bastard an Ammonite or a Moabite shall enter into the Congregation or in Ecclesia even to the tenth Generation here the word Ecclesia or Congregation must not signifie the Reall but the Representative Congregation for it should have been unjust and cruell to have excluded from the Church and consequently from the Covenant of God any of those that desired to be admitted thereunto 2. For then they could not have received any of those Nations for Proselytes to the tenth generation 3. Because this is repugnant to another Law of God Exod. 23.48 where it is commanded to admit unto the Passeover all Strangers circumcised 28. If every member of the Church should have power to Governe or a power of Iurisdiction in every Ecclesiasticall Cause Ergo of teaching also and of Deaconship for there is a parity of reason in both for there be some points of Controversie as hard to be Iudged as it would be to master a Sermon and it is much difficulter to rule then to exercise the charge of
comprehends a certaine number of persons of one or divers places Here it is to be observed 1. That the Church may be denominated universall or particular either absolutely or respectively in relation to another bigger or lesse so Absolutely the universall Church comprehends in its selfe all the Churches of all times of all places of all forts of Persons Angels and men of all Estates or conditions and Covenants As that in the Covenant of integrity naturall or supernaturall as of Angels and men before their Fall and that in the state of sin under the Covenant of Grace and in the state of Glory And according to this consideration the Church of the Angels is one particular Church That of Mankind another The Triumphant and Militant two others and in a word all the parts thereof may be called particular Churches Respectively the Church of Mankind is an universall Church in respect of its parts as of that before and after the Fall the Triumphant and Militant so the Church after the Fall is universall in respect of that of the Old and New Testament which be its parts and the Christian in respect of its parts in Heaven and on Earth of the Primitive and that of subsequent times that which is in all the world in respect of its parts in divers Kingdomes Provinces c. But that which is most to the purpose in this our Discourse is the Catholick Christian Church here upon earth 6. Againe the Militant Church whether she be considered according to her universality and totality or particularity in her severall parts and Assemblies in respect of her internall and externall forme is either visible or invisible The invisible Church is that which cannot be seene but only is beleeved by Faith The visible is that which we see or behold where it is to be observed 1. That the word visible is not to be taken here strictly for the object of the sight alone or the word see or behold for the act thereof but in a more full signification for that which any waies is perceptible by the eye or any externall or internall Sense or by naturall Reason such as are the confession and profession of Christian vertues the exercise of their externall Acts whereof some be apprehended by the sight and Eye as the acts of Charity some by the hearing and Eare as the confession of Faith some by feeling as the assistance and attendance upon the Sicke some by the internall Senses some by Act of Reason only and the reason of this is because the word visible must signifie all that which is denyed by invisible now invisible signifies a negation of all that can be apprehended by any Sense or Act of Reason Ergo the word visible must signifie that which can be apprehended by any Sense or Act of Reason so that it belong to the Externall Form of the Church which represents the internall Forme thereof 2. Besides that it is here to be observed that the visible Church of it self is evermore visible and conspicuous but by Accident becomes sometimes invisible latent obscure and unseene and that 1. either because of the persecution Shee suffers by her enemies when Shee hides her selfe in the Wildernesse or 2. by reason of her slitting from one place to another as when Shee went from Hierusalem to Pella or 3. because of the weaknesse of the sight of the Seer as in Eli 1 King 9. verse 4. for want of sight as to those to whom as the Gospel so the Church professing the Gospell is hid and invisible 2 Cor. 2 3 4. 3. Finally It is not to be omitted that this is not a Division of the Churchinto two Species or two integrant parts or any waies into parts really but Accidentally distinguished For a Church altogether one in the same time and place and according to the same parts may be howsoever according to divers considerations and Formes which be the grounds of divers considerations it may be Visible and Invisible as the Church of Geneva which is visible in respect of her externall forme viz. Confession of the true Christian Faith the profession thereof and other christian vertues Item in respect of her Discipline c. And the same Church in respect of her internall Forme viz. Faith Hope Charity the Spirit of Christ c which be spirituall qualities altogether invisible in the sense before declared is altogether invisible 7. The Militant Church both in her totality and partiality may be divided into two integrant parts viz. into the Over-seers that preach teach rule c. and the Flock which is over-seene And they be the two principall parts concurring to its integrity without the which it cannot be a totall or whole visible Church and therefore a Church without Oversseers is not a whole visible Church I say a whole or totall Church for without Pastors it may be a totum essentiale i.e. essentially a Church for Pastors are not absolutely necessary for the essence but for the integrity of a Church Item I say without Over-seers 1. All Over-seers for it may be that a Church may subsist without Pastors alone or Doctoss alone or Rulers or Elders alone or Deacons alone but not without all 8. The Militant visible Church whether it be conceived in its universality and totality or in its particularity in severall Congregations is either Reall or Representative The Reall Militant Church is any visible Church here upon Earth composed of all its reall Professors of the Gospel The Representative Church is an Assembly of certaine Persons or church-Church-Officers in an Ecclesiasticall Iudicatory chosen out of the whole Body of the Reall Church to represent it as it is such be the Sessions or Consistories the Synods Provinciall and Nationall As for the Reall visible Church some thinke that it is very probable that it is never altogether without Iustifying Faith but it is probable that where there be very small Congregations of seven or eight persons they may be all without Faith and especially where the Church is corrupt or where the Members are all vicious and dissolute Their conjecture will hold more probable in great Congregations in Provinciall and Nationall Churches But in a Representative Church composed of very few church-Church-Officers it is very probable that sometimes they may all be without Faith howsoever they represent a Church of Reall Beleevers for to represent Reall Beleevers it is not absolutely necessary that they that are to represent them be Beleevers or have the same essentiall and internall Forme with those whom they represent but that they have the externall confession and profession of their Faith whereby they represent them nor represent they their Faith but their profession of faith So the Image of Caesar represents really Caesar without any humane nature such as is in Caesar and so may men without Faith represent them that have Faith By the word Church we must understand the Militant Christian particular and reall Church consisting of one Congregation These
being presupposed I put this Conclusion All Persons in a Church or the whole Collective Body thereof have not Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction 1. They have not the power to exercise it 1. Because we read no such thing in Scripture viz. that ever God committed the Government of the Church to every idle Fellow that is a member thereof 2. Because it is contrary to the generall Ordinance of God 1 Tim. 3. that all church-Church-Officers be examined and tryed before their Admission And to the practise of the Old Testament in the religion of the Levites that served five yeares in their Apprenticeship 3. Because every particular member of the Church hath not the Ability to Iudge or Rule because of his ignorance and want of learning for every one in the Church cannot be learned for some there be that needs are spirituall some that be carnall some Babes in Christ some men some have need of milke some of meat 1 Cor. 3.1 2 3. 4. Because of their imprudence for some of the vulgar are somewhat precipitate and rash in the examination of matters others very slow in their judgement some in their speech and some in all which is not convenient in so grave matters in Iudging the Iudgements of the Lord. 5. Because some are vicious and culpable of the faults or crimes that are to be Iudged and condemned in others and therefore are not fit Iudges to Iudge them 6. Many in the Congregation may be friends Kinsmen or allyed with the party that is to be Iudged and so partiall wherefore some of the Congregation at the least in that case are to be excluded and by Consequence the simple Title of Christianity and profession thereof or to be a member of the Church gives not all christians this right but some other thing 7. If every one of the Church may Iudge or exercise Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction then women also whom Saint Paul commands to hold their peace in the Church 1 Cor. 14.34 and to be subject in obedience without Iurisdiction 8. All distracted men and babes should have power to Iudge and so those that are without Iudgment shold Iudge since they are members of the Church It may be answered that they admit not babes but those only that are in age and apparently regenerated Inst But then every member of the Church hath power to Iudge but men distracted are in age Ergo they have power to Iudge It may be answered that they understand that those only that are in age and have the use of reason should be admitted Inst 1. But when hath a man the use of Reason how shal they define that It is commonly defined by Philosophers and others the age of seven yeares which will make no very able Ecelesiasticall Senator here the Scripture is desicient they will admit nothing in Discipline but that which is commanded by Christ 2. What if a man in his old age begin to dote they may answer that then he is excluded because reason failes him Inst Then he must be declared not sitting which may breed division Jnst Item a man may be in age and yet little skilled in Divinity for to Iudge in matter of Heresie and be more vitious then when he was a childe And if a man be Iudged by babes children fooles and doting old men it is to be feared especially if the Iudged be rich that the Iudgement be the cause rather of division then concord so this Discipline being established all Schismes may break forth controversies and contentions They may answer that they establish these that are really or apparently in judgement of charity Saints as it may be collected from the Rom. c. 1.2 1 Cor. 1. Eph. 1. Phil. in the beginning of the chapters Reply But every particular man in every particular Congregation of the Visible Church whereof we only dispute is not nor can in speaking morally as falleth out ordinarily be a Saint 1. Because the Church is compared to a Ground whereof one part is by the way side the other stony another thorny another good To a Ground wherin growes Wheat and Tares To a Draw-Net receiving good and bad fishes Mat. 13. to a Society of wise and foolish Virgins Mat. 25. And to a House wherein there are Vessels to honour and dishonour There must be Offences or slanders saies Christ Math. 18.7 2. Howbeit they were all Saints yet should it not follow thereupon that they are all learned prudent judicious and endowed with other gifts to judge either in matters of Doctrine in Creating of Ministers and in Excommunicating of Hereticks or of Discipline which sometime requires some knowledge of the Civill law as in Cases of Matrimonie c. As for the Passages of St. Paul 1. I deny that he calls all the Members of the Church Saints Formally but the whole Body of the Church is so called or denominated because of the holinesse which is really or apparently inherent in some Members or parts thereof which denominates the whole Body as when a man is said to see because of the sight which is not inherent in all the parts of his Body but only in his Eye or wise for his wisdome which is inherent in his Soule alone 2. If it were otherwise the Apostle should have written untruths in these Texts for Rom. 16.17 18. he sayes Now I beseech you Brethren marke them which cause divisions and offences c. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly and 1 Cor. 5. It is known that the Incestuous man was not excommunicated Some of them were also Schismaticks saying that they were of Christ of Paul of Apolloes And what the Galathians were the whole Epistle testifies so that according to our Brethrens grounds there was no visible Church here and nothing could have been judged 3. It is not sanctification or holinesse of life but Politicall or Ecclesiasticall prudence that furnisheth their Abilities for 1. Sanctification is Gratia gratum faciens one sort of Grace or gift of the Spirit that renders us gracious or makes us acceptable to God But the facultie of Ruling and exercising of Jurisdiction in the Church is Gratia gratis data given gratiously only but makes us not gracious or acceptable to God as the Gift of Prophecie of Tongues Intepretation c. 2. The first is given us principally for our own benefit the other principally for other mens benefit and therfore 3. the first is for to save a man himself the second to save others when peradventure he may be damned himselfe as we see in Judas who had the grace of Prophecie whereby he saved others but damned himselfe and did preach salvation to others beleeving but damnation to himselfe unbeleeving 4. The first makes one a good Christian the other a good Citizen in the exteriour Societie of the Church alone yea 5. I may boldly say that a man may be a good Preacher or Prophet or Ruler in the Church and an ill Christian if hee preach
the truth and with edification or rule well and beleeve not which may bee done by a very wicked man Mat. 7.19 20 21 22 23. and another may be a good man but an ill Preacher Prophet or Ruler if he have sanctifying grace and have not so great abilities to preach or to rule as an other who perchance is an Atheist or if he be somewhat negligent in the exercise of his charge The Apostle sayes not that all that were in their Churches were Saints either really or appearingly but to all the Saints 4. It is probable also and some of them grant it that all the Members of the Church in those texts of Scripture are called Saints or holy 1. because of the holiness of the Covenant 2. Or holy because of the holy Confession 3. Or holy Profession 4. Or of the holy Sacraments of the holy Covenant wherunto they were partakers or finally because of their externall Vocation to salvation But all this makes them not learned prudent judicious nor furnishes them with other abilities which are needfull for the exercise of Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction 5. But put the case that we should grant them all this yet can they not escape thus saying that in so doing they admit not all those that are actually received in the Church as her Children and members to the exercise of Ecclesiastical Discipline but the lesser part for there are more ignorant then learned and ill men then good in the Church or at least that have not the gifts required therunto and so in rejecting they are forced to admit some Election and establish some representative Church by the admission of some and the exclusion of others so that in this point they differ not from us in not admitting a Representative Church but in admitting a greater and more Vast Representatative Church then we and the members thereof of lesse Abilities 6. Hence it follows that men have not right to exercise Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction in qualitie of Christians professing Christ since women and others have it not but in some other consideration which we desire to know viz. whether it be not for their Abilitie and so it is not to be found in all 7. This rejection of some yea of the greater part of the Church as women children old men ignorants Vitious men and others that have not the abilitie to judge as all unholy and prophane men and admission of others that are the lesser part as sanctified men in whom only consists the Church is capable to breed Divisions in their Church if the people have power to judge For accordingly they will judge in favour of themselves to be admitted and so procure a schisme and quarrell for the taking away whereof the Government accordingly is established let them take it into consideration how hard it is for any man yea for the most part of the Church to be declared ignorant imprudent young of an unripe judgement and doting c. and to the Church and see the lesse part which pretends to be the only Church declared apt and fit to their owne exclusion and what thereupon may ensue in a Democraticall Government upon such filthy and infamous aspersions in checking the greater part as prophane it may peradventure stirre up a bellum servile more dangerous to the Church then that amongst the Romans 8. The Doctrine that destroyes Gods holy Ordinance viz. the Distinction which he has put betwixt the Rulers of the Church and them that are ruled and are to obey cannot be admitted as our Brethren will confesse But the Doctrine that gives to every Member of the Church power and administration of Jurisdiction in ruling and governing the Church is such For God hath ordained some to rule and others to obey Rom. 12.8 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. 1 Thess 5.12 1 Tim. 5.17 Heb. 13.17 Obey them that rule over you and submit your selves unto them Now then if some be Rulers and others to obey we cannot all be Rulers as it appeares 1. Cor. 12.28 29. And God hath set some in the Church Apostles and Governments c. Are all Apostles c Where he sayes that one gift is not given to every Member of the Church Note that he speaks here of those gifts or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that are called gratia gratis data not for our own but for other mens use Ergo this order cannot be admitted 9. No confused Discipline or government of Gods Church can be ordained by God for God is not the God of Confusion 1. Cor. 14.33 But that wherein every one of the people hath Jurisdiction or juridicall power is a confused Discipline or government Ergo It cannot be ordained by God The Major will be granted since it is Gods word The Minor is evident For I put the case that in a Church composed of some 20000 persons there be some point of Doctrine to be decided what disorder and confusion should it not breed if every one of that huge multitude yea every illiterate and idle fellow should come and propound his idle thoughts By what wisdome of man could this many-headed beast be reduced to order It may be answered that they should be wise But we reply they are not nor can that be hoped or expected in this life nay doe any beleeve it either Donatists or Anabaptists and howbeit they were all wise to salvation yet followes it not that they should all be wise for Government and Examination of all Church Officers 10. The exercise of the Discipline of the Church is morally possible for God will not that his Church be governed by an order that is impossible But this Democraticall and Plebeian exercise of Discipline is not morally possible for if there were 20. or 30. points to be judged by such a huge multitude certainly they could not easily discusse and judge every point For if every one of 20000 should give his advise and peradventure be interrupted by some and then begin his discourse againe which ordinarily falls out amongst rude people when should the Examen and discussion of the businesse be ended Grant to every one of them but halfe an houre whereas I warrant you some should take halfe a day or halfe a yeare and say little to the purpose and yet make 〈…〉 of one businesse onely employing 12. hours a day counting the Lords day also should amount to two yeares and foure moneths or thereabouts so that here there is too much delay for a businesse should scarce ever be judged or ended what should become of all other businesse What if in this one question there should fall out 20. or 30. Incidents whereof every one should take up as much time as the principall Question which quicke witted men may easily procure when then should a Question be ended It may be answered that there may be some order taken for deliberating and consulting which may hinder this as at Rome where there were 1000. Senators and in Paris where at the Parliament there are 200. Senators
question As if I should goe about to prove that Christ according to his humane nature had a Body his due dimensions or qnantitie because all men have so But you should except Christ for so no man can prove any thing for evermore my Adversary shall except that which is in question 15. If all the people promiscuously may judge then they may judge without their Presbyters and church-Church-Officers But the Consequent is false E. The Antecedent from whence it is inferred is false also They will not deny the Assumption and it may be proved thus For without their Pastors and Seniors the Congregation cannot make a compleat Church the People being but one halfe thereof and their Rulers the other Besides that there may be some Cases wherein the People cannot judge alone as in point of Heresie and touching the capacitie of Ministers admitted to Preach The Consequence of the first Proposition may be proved thus For if they be all Judges and of foure hundred or five hundred foure or five or fifteen chance to be absent the rest may judge the number of those that are absent being no wayes considerable in respect of that which is present But so is the Case in the first Proposition Item Because if of the people two three or foure yea 20.30 or 40. be absent the Church-Officers with the rest will judge without them Why shall not then the People have the same power also in absence of the Church-Officers fince they have all alike power to judge viz. every man one voyce This Argument ariseth out of our Brethrens Supposition viz. that every one has power to judge and rule 16. I Would willingly aske our Brethren whether or no they thinke that an Ecclesiasticall Judgement can hold without the Peoples presence and voyces If it can hold then the peoples voycing is not absolutely needfull nor ex instituto divino For it cannot hold nor be just without that which God requires to make it just If it cannot hold without the Peoples voyces I ask againe whether all the peoples voyces be requisite or that the major part suffice If all it is impossible Morally neither see we ever almost that in a great Congregation all can meet together or if they meet together that all consent together yea nor in lesser Assemblies If the major part suffice as it must be said then can it not hold for if many be absent and of those that are present the major part surmount the lesser by 4.5.6 or 7. voyces then the lesser part may complaine that all the people were not present and so desire the businesse to be remitted to another meeting so that in conclusion no businesse should ever end unlesse all the people were present which ordinarily never or rarely falls out Item they fall into that very inconvenience which they presse so hard against their Brethren viz. that they that are absent shall be led by the nose and consent by an implicite Faith to a Judgement of Doctrine or of Discipline of great consequence for other mens judgements sake whereunto Formally they dissented For if Judgements of Consistories composed of Church-Officers alone cannot hold because then the People should be led by the nose and assent thereunto by an implicite Faith no more should the Judgement of the People in this present Case The same inconvenience or worse should fall out in voycing for if there were in the Assembly of 20000. 10000. for one part and the rest for the other Here all the rest should be led by one implicite Faith to consent against their own explicite Faith for here things are carried by pluralitie of voyces which are not weighed but accompted If only the Masters of Families or all Servants have power to voyce and if that may not procure partialities when a Father may draw his sons and servants to his opinion to voyce with him as he will 19. Besides this our Brethren must determine how many they require to accomplish the Assembly to the end that the Judgement may hold and be valeable How many for the discussion and voycing of the businesse and after it is voyced and judged how many to draw up the Sentence or Judgement for in this all Nations doe not agree neither one Senate in the Kingdome with another in another Kingdome nor one Senate in the same Kingdome with another nor one Senate with it selfe in divers times And if they determine it we pray them to draw their Determination thereof out of Gods word since they will admit of nothing concluded by naturall Reason or drawn from the Law of Nature 20. We may bring many more Reasons to shew the impossibilitie or at least the very great difficultic that is in this sort of Judicatory as the Case there should fall in many incidents as about refusing of some of the Judges some witnesses the Protestation of the nullity of the Judgement for sundry Reasons that all the Judges were not well informed of the matter some of them having given their Judgement before-hand some having promised to the party to judge so or so some of them having solicited others to judge so or so if all these Incidents should be discussed and passe by the voyces of 20000. men when should it be ended Wee might also bring other Reasons to shew how that sundry things in this Government are altogether repugnant to Ecclesiasticall Government as 21. That a man should be borne a Judge in Christs Church without any Election or Vocation to such a place But no man taketh this honour unto himselfe but he that is called of God as was Aaron Heb. 5.4 And truly there is no reason that a man yea that all men should rather be borne Judges in Gods Church then in the State 22. The Hang-man and the most ignominious persons in the world should be Judges here 23. Nothing could ever be decided for in case there were 5. or 6. divers Opinions you could decide according to none for if you followed that which had most voyces with it all the rest would voyce against it if that which had fewer they that had more would not suffer it so what ever should be said or done it should be controlled 24. We only adde Christs Command Math. 18.17 Tell it unto the Church 1. Unto the Representative Church and not to every one of the People for that should be impossible This passage our Brethren bring for them but surely it makes rather against them for Christ here establishing an Ecclesiasticall Judicatorie alludes to the order of the Jewes in their Synagogicall Judicatories and Sanedrim in Censuring of Vice and redressing of the grievances that Brethren received of Brethren in the Church for he abolishes not such Judicatories Quoad substantiam since they are grounded on the Law of Nature but quoad Circumstantias in so far as they are ordained by Moyses Captaine and the leader of the people of God or did only bind the people of the Iewes and had for Object the
sought in great Congregations 3. Put the case they had Voyce yet followes it not that they had voyce in the Examen and Iudging of the Pastors sufficiency since they had not the Iudgement or sufficiency themselves to Iudge thereof but only as I said before in the Examen of his life if they knew any thing that might hinder his Reception or in the acceptation into a particular Church or rejection from it which only belonged to the Congregation wherein he was to exercise his Office which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And therefore as Tilenus observes in his Dispute De Vocatione Ministrorum the Church of old times was wont to write in a Table or Placard in some publicke place the name of him who was destin'd to the Ministery or in case that could not commodiously be done they named him publickly in the Ecclesiastick Assembly to the end that if any man knew any thing which might hinder his Reception He might advertise the Church within such a time as Shee prescribed for that purpose And thus much we grant and this Text proves no more Our Brethren triumph much also of the Place Acts 15. where they pretend that in that famous Controversie betwixt Paul and Barnabas on the one part and some Pharisees on the other about the observation of the Ceremoniall Law and of Circumcision the People Iudged and had voyce as well as the Pastors and Elders both at Antioch and at Hierusalem which they prove 1. because v. 2. the Brethren determined to send Paul and Barnabas to Hierusalem unto the Apostles and Elders about that Question I answer 1. That the Text sayes not that the Brethren and People determined to send them but that they determined which probably were those of the Representative Church 2. Put the case that all the Church and every member thereof determined to send them yet could they not determine that but as they could viz. the Representative Church composed of church-Church-Officers by power of Iurisdiction in voycing and giving of Iudgement And the People by consenting to their just Iudgement explicitely or implicitely 3. It may be that the Church was divided into two Factions of equall force which made a great Schisme for the Text sayes v. 2. that Paul and Barnabas had no small dissention with the Pharisees and in such an extraordinary case the Consent of the people might well have been sought Howsoever the Text sayes it not 4. But howbeit it were so Extraordinary Cases are not to be drawn into consequence 5. Howbeit the People had determined yet did they it not in an Ecclesiasticall but in a Politicall way viz. in furnishing them their Charges and in that they might have Voyce or Power to consent or give suffrage in furnishing money which was accidentall to this Ecclesiasticall and Spirituall Power 6. To send Deputies or the parties to Hierusalem or to a Synod to debate the question is not a proper act of Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction but the Voycing and Pronouncing of Sentence in Ecclesiasticall Causes 2. They prove it from this Text because they were brought on their way by the Church E. What follows That every one of the People in the Church except Women Children Distracted men and Sinners had Voyce in this businesse A. 1. I deny the Consequence for how know they that there were no VVomen nor Youths that brought them on their way 2. How know they that all the Reall Church brought them on their way 3. To bring them on their way is not an Act of Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction but of Christian Charitie or of Civill Humanitie Neither belongeth it to every one that convoyes a Commissioner a part of his way to have a Decisive Voyce in that which his Commission containes Truly This is so ridiculous that I am ashamed to answer it or that the world should believe that so good and so learned men should be moved to make a Schisme in the Church of God for so frivolous Arguments 3. They prove it from the fourth verse because they were received of the Church and of the Apostles and Elders E. Every one in the Church had power of Voycing and of Jurisdiction except Women Children and Sinners A. 1. I deny the Consequence For he who receives a Commissioner or a party hath not evermore Power to heare his Commission much lesse to judge thereof as we see in State-Businesses 2. The Text sayes not that they were received by all the Reall Church excepting Women Children c. 3. Neither sayes the Text that they that received them received them immediatly in the Peoples name 4. Or that they were received by them in qualitie of Church-Commissioners from Antioch But rather in qualitie of Apostles by Apostles by whom God had done great wonders in the Conversion of the Gentiles as it may be concluded from the 3. and 4. verses For in declaring this they rejoyced 5. Neither was this Reception an Act of Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction and it seemes that those that were so received were not all the Commissioners but those only that had converted the Gentiles viz. Paul and Barnabas Ans I answer the Antecedent may be denied that the word Congregation or Church here signifies all the Members of the Reall Church as above we have clearly proved because our Brethren confess that it signifies not Women Children c. 2. Put the case it signifie all the Church or the whole Church yet can it not signifie it wholly Significat totam sed non totalis but every part according to the matter in hand The Epistle then was written by the whole Church but by their Representative Body as having power of Jurisdiction and by the rest as consenting directly or indirectly Ob. But in this Church is comprehended the Brethren who are distinguished from the Apostles and Elders E. they signifie the People A. 1. It may signifie the Evanglists the Prophets and those that had the Gift of Tongues c. 2. I grant it according to my former declaration only I deny that they had Power of Jurisdiction or a Decisive voyce in this Company 3. What if it be denyed that the word Brethren here signifieth every one of the promiscuous multitude and I should say that it signifies the Deacons or men of the better sort that had a Deliberative voyce 4. Our Brethren themselves deny that it signifies all Brethren as Children and Women who are accounted under the word Brethren 2. Ans I deny the Consequence of the Argument 1. Because the Letters were also written to children women young men and notorious Sinners and yet even according to our Brethrens confession they had not Power of Voycing or of Jurisdiction in this or in any other Ecclesiasticall cause 2. Because that all the Scriptures are written to every Christian yea that which toucheth the day of Judgement and yet never any one of them shall judge thereof but be judged thereby 3. Because howbeit their Letters or this Judgement was
written to all Yet was it not written to all in the same fashion but to every one according to his Vocation as the Kings Edicts viz. To some meerly to be obeyed by them To others that have Jurisdiction as to inferiour Judicatories to obey them and to cause them to be obeyed by others Ob. They prove it from this Chapter v. 3. because S. Paul and Barnabas being come back from Jerusalem to Antioch they gathered the multitude and delivered the Epistle written from the Apostles c. A. I answer 1. That the text sayes not that they delivered the Epistle to the Multitude but when they had gathered the Multitude they delivered the Epist Ob. But it is said v. 31. when the Multitude had read the Epistle they rejoyced A. I answer it is not said that the Multitude had read the Epistle but that the Apostles delivered it which when they had read This they may signifie some other then the Multitude 1. Because it is not the custome in any Assembly that all the Multitude read Epistles 2. Neither is it possible without very great confusion Ob. But how could the People then rejoyce for the consolation A. 1. Because the Letter was read in their presence by the church-Church-Officers A. 2. But put the case that the Letter was read by the People it could not be till after it had been read in the Representative Church or by the Elders and after that it had been published A. 3. Howbeit it had been received and read by the People or to the People yet was not that an Act of Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction but of obedience of an inferiour Ecclesiasticall Judicatorie to a Superiour A. 4. It might have been read to all the People yea to Children and women that were to obey And yet it follows not presently that they had Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction A. 5. It might have been read to all or by all Tanque subjecto Denominationis Et ut quod But not tanquam subjecto ut quo as when the whole Kingdome is that which is named rich or potent howbeit their Riches and Power be not in every man but in a few So a man is said to be judged by the Kingdome who is only judged by the Kings Counsell or by the Parliament or Representative Kingdome and neverthelesse what the Parliament does is said to be done by the Reall Kingdome or it may belong to the whole Body but not wholly but to every part according to the exigence thereof Ob. They say that 1 Cor. 5. and 2 Cor. 2. The Apostle commands all the People to Excommunicate the incestuous man when they were gathered together and after his repentance to receive him to the peace of the Church againe A. We deny that the Apostle gives any such Power to the People or promiscuous multitude by that passage but only to church-Church-Officers that represents the Church Inst But they prove it on this manner They among whom the Fornicator was that were puffed up when they should have sorrowed and from out of the midst of whom he was to be put who had done that thing Item They who had to purge out the old leaven that were not to company with Fornicators Covetous men Drunkards c. received Power to judge and to Excommunicate that incestuous man But the Fornicator was not amongst the Elders alone neither were they alone puffed up c. E. He was not to be judged by them alone but by the Church with them though governed by them A. 1. This Argument failes mightily in forme 1. Because it containes two or three Conclusions viz. 1. He was not to be judged by them alone 2. Hee was to be judged by the Church with them 3. He was to be judged by the Church governed by them 2. This Syllogisme is either Categoricall and so failes because of the Assumption Negative in the first Figure or Conditionall because of the Major Relative and so it failes because it destroyes the Antecedent in the Assumption A. 2. It failes in Matter For the first Proposition being taken Universally is false because the Fornicator was among Women and Youths c. who were puffed up c. and yet our Brethren grant that they had not power to Voyce or to Excommunicate 2. Because 2. Cor. 2. v. 6. This punishment is said to be inflicted by many and not by all for many are opposite to all as ye may see in Arist. 1. Top. c. 1. sect 7. 3. Because in the Text there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Beza observes which is more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as others observes it is only the greater part in number as in that passage of Arist 1 Top. 1. sect 7. but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as those that are greater in dignitie which are but few viz. the church-Church-Officers that rule the Church as Beza observes upon this place A. 3. That howbeit this be said and written to them all Yet is it not said to them all alwayes but according as they were capable to obey Now some were capable to obey by Judiciall Power as the Representative Church in Excommunicating him and so binding themselves and others by Authority to quit his company Others only as private Persons or Christians in obeying the Sentence of the Representative Church And so this was said and commanded to private Christians But they Reply As it was not enjoyn'd the Levites and Elders alone in Israel to purge out of their Houses the materiall Leaven but it belonged to the People also so is it in the Spirituall Leaven A. This we grant that it was the duty of every Israelite by obedience as he was a Private person to put away the Materiall Leaven out of his own house And so it is every private Christians duty to put away the Spirituall Leaven But neither among the Israelites had every private or particular man a publick Authority and Jurisdiction to put it away out of his own and all other Houses nor among Christians to put away Spirituall Leaven Every particular man in his own house may command but not in another mans without publick Authority They bring another Text. 1. Tim. 5.20 Those who sin rebuke publikely that others also may feare But what inferre ye from hence E. Every one of the People have Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction to rebuke publickly A. Wee deny the Consequence 1. For this is said to Timothy who was a Pastor and an Evangelist and not to every one of the People 2. Because every one of the People hath not the gift to robuke publikely at least pertinently or 3. If some of them meddle with this charge I thinke they will deserve more to be rebuked themselves then he who is rebuked by them 4. If this belong to every one of the People E. That which is said Cap. 4. v. 11. These things command and teach v. 12. Let no man despise thy youth v. 14. Neglect not the