con._n therefore_o baptize_v church_n baptize_v such_o as_o shall_v be_v save_v mr._n cr._n and_o some_o of_o his_o party_n begin_v to_o deride_v and_o say_v this_o be_v in_o gyro_fw-la idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la all_o that_o be_v save_v confess_v and_o believe_v all_o that_o confess_v and_o believe_v be_v save_v say_fw-la dr._n chamb._n it_o be_v the_o great_a truth_n in_o be_v reciprocal_a according_a to_o all_o the_o rule_n of_o truth_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o this_o the_o company_n seem_v to_o acquiesce_v in_o continuation_n of_o this_o promiscuous_a discourse_n mr._n cranf_n use_v the_o word_n renegado_n again_o and_o say_v that_o baptize_v church_n baptize_v such_o as_o deny_v the_o faith_n not_o such_o as_o profess_v the_o faith_n therefore_o we_o be_v all_o renegado_n dr._n chamb._n reply_v i_o shall_v prove_v you_o so_o mr._n cranf_n bid_v he_o do_v dr._n chamb._n ma._n they_o that_o practise_v what_o they_o neither_o have_v command_n nor_o example_n for_o practise_v what_o they_o shall_v not_o mi._n but_o you_o who_o sprinkle_v infant_n practise_v what_o you_o neither_o have_v command_n nor_o example_n for_o mr._n cranf_n cry_v out_o be_v this_o to_o prove_v we_o renegado_n make_v your_o conclusion_n say_fw-la dr._n chamb._n i_o be_v loath_a to_o use_v word_n of_o provocation_n and_o that_o be_v not_o write_v but_o mr_n cranf_n continue_v in_o derision_n dr._n chamb._n say_v then_o i_o will_v prove_v you_o renegado_n they_o that_o speak_v lie_n in_o hypocrisy_n be_v renegado_n but_o you_o speak_v lie_n in_o hypocrisy_n here_o the_o meeting_n break_v up_o abrupt_o the_o last_o meeting_n between_o mr._n cranford_n and_o dr._n chamberlain_n at_o mr._n web_n house_n at_o bartholomew_n lane_n end_n be_v on_o the_o 13._o of_o april_n 1652._o the_o question_n be_v still_o whether_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian_a minister_n be_v the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n as_o before_o respondent_fw-la dr._n chamb._n opponent_n after_o prayer_n as_o former_o the_o dispute_n begin_v in_o writing_n be_v so_o agree_v the_o time_n before_o dr._n chamb._n begin_v his_o argument_n thus_o ma._n they_o that_o be_v minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n be_v ordain_v by_o jesus_n christ_n mi._n but_o presbyterian_a minister_n of_o london_n be_v not_o ordain_v by_o jesus_n christ_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v not_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n negatur_fw-la minor_n the_o minister_n be_v ordain_v by_o jesus_n christ_n mediate_o dr._n chamb._n ma._n they_o that_o be_v ordain_v by_o antichrist_n be_v not_o ordain_v by_o jesus_n christ_n mi._n but_o presbyterian_a minister_n of_o london_n be_v ordain_v by_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n negatur_fw-la minor_n dr._n chamb._n ma._n they_o that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n be_v ordain_v by_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o presbyterian_a minister_n of_o london_n be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o antichrist_n mr._n cranf_n negatur_fw-la minor_n dr._n chamb._n ma._n they_o that_o be_v ordain_v by_o those_o who_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mi._n but_o presbyterian_a minister_n of_o london_n be_v ordain_v by_o those_o who_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mr._n cranf_n negatur_fw-la minor_n dr._n chamb._n ma._n they_o who_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n and_o their_o successor_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n be_v ordain_v by_o those_o who_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mi._n but_o presbyterian_a minister_n of_o london_n be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n of_o england_n and_o their_o successor_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o those_o who_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mr._n cranf_n negatur_fw-la major_n dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o power_n or_o minister_n of_o the_o pope_n etc._n etc._n then_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n etc._n etc._n mi._n but_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o power_n or_o minister_n of_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la min._n dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n be_v not_o ordain_v by_o the_o power_n nor_o minister_n of_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n then_o there_o be_v some_o bishop_n in_o king_n henry_n 7._o and_o k._n hen._n 8._o day_n neither_o ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n nor_o minister_n of_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mi._n but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o bishop_n in_o k._n hen._n 7._o nor_o king_n hen._n 8._o day_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o power_n or_o minister_n of_o the_o pope_n within_o these_o thousand_o year_n mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la mi._n dr._n chamb._n name_v any_o mr._n cranf_n do_v you_o prove_v there_o be_v none_o dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o then_o either_o they_o be_v allow_v or_o disalow_v min._n but_o there_o be_v neither_o any_o allow_v nor_o disallow_v that_o be_v such_o con._n therefore_o there_o be_v none_o such_o mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la minor_n none_o of_o the_o allow_a minister_n be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n at_o that_o time_n to_o place_n and_o displace_v who_o he_o please_v than_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n mi._n but_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n to_o place_n and_o displace_v who_o he_o please_v con._n therefore_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la consequentia_fw-la &_o minor_a est_fw-la falsa_fw-la dr._n chamb._n power_n of_o ordination_n you_o grant_v be_v approbation_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n ma._n if_o their_o place_n and_o displace_v be_v a_o consequence_n of_o their_o ordination_n than_o the_o consequence_n be_v true_a mi._n but_o their_o place_n and_o displace_v be_v a_o consequence_n of_o their_o ordination_n mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la consequentia_fw-la dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n of_o place_v and_o displace_v of_o bishop_n than_o he_o have_v power_n of_o their_o ordination_n mi._n but_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n of_o place_v and_o displace_v of_o bishop_n if_o place_v and_o displace_v of_o bishop_n be_v great_a than_o their_o ordination_n than_o the_o pope_n who_o do_v place_n and_o displace_v do_v also_o ordain_v mr._n cranford_n negatur_fw-la consequentia_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v remove_v or_o displace_v minister_n but_o may_v not_o ordain_v minister_n to_o place_n and_o displace_v be_v not_o great_a than_o to_o ordain_v dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o what_o the_o pope_n do_v he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v so_o public_o acknowledge_v than_o the_o consequence_n be_v true_a mi._n but_o what_o the_o pope_n do_v he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v so_o public_o acknowledge_v mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la consequentia_fw-la though_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n to_o do_v it_o he_o do_v not_o do_v it_o some_o discourse_n as_o betwwen_v all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o latter_a syllogism_n interrupt_v the_o clear_a dispute_n and_o then_o dr._n chamb._n follow_v with_o this_o argument_n to_o the_o discourse_n that_o be_v ma._n if_o all_o the_o particular_a part_n and_o faculty_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v under_o the_o power_n and_o ministry_n of_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n than_o bishop_n be_v ordain_v by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n mr._n cranf_n negate_fw-la consequentia_fw-la dr._n chamb._n ma._n if_o so_o then_o ordination_n be_v no_o part_n or_o faculty_n of_o the_o church_n mi._n but_o ordination_n be_v a_o part_n ergo._n mr._n cranf_n ne._n consequentia_fw-la minor_n etiam_fw-la est_fw-la falsa_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n though_o it_o be_v ulcerous_a yet_o be_v a_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n as_o a_o man_n be_v a_o man_n though_o full_a of_o ulcer_n truth_n come_v out_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o scripture_n that_o have_v be_v convey_v through_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v true_a scripture_n dr._n chamb._n deny_v that_o truth_n come_v out_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v convey_v through_o the_o ulcerous_a church_n of_o rome_n what_o be_v of_o their_o conveyance_n be_v not_o true_a mr._n cranf_n often_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v ulcerous_a and_o dr._n
a_o universal_a power_n over_o all_o church_n become_v antichrist_n 4_o after_o his_o usurpation_n there_o want_v not_o many_o both_o bishop_n and_o other_o teacher_n that_o oppose_v this_o usurpation_n of_o the_o pope_n till_o the_o protestant_n depart_v from_o it_o 5_o there_o remain_v oppress_v by_o the_o papacy_n a_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n in_o rome_n till_o our_o separation_n from_o they_o 6_o from_o this_o true_a church_n i_o say_v not_o pure_a church_n in_o rome_n our_o first_o reformer_n have_v their_o ordination_n which_o be_v in_o the_o essential_o true_a and_o from_o christ_n 7_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n have_v be_v antichrist_n i_o believe_v about_o a_o thousand_o year_n that_o be_v so_o long_o as_o he_o have_v usurp_v power_n over_o all_o church_n 8_o there_o be_v a_o true_a ministerial_a church_n in_o rome_n when_o we_o separate_v from_o the_o papacy_n ja._n cranford_n dr._n chamb._n argue_v to_o the_o last_o ma._n if_o no_o ministerial_a church_n in_o rome_n since_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n but_o what_o be_v from_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n than_o there_o be_v no_o such_o church_n in_o rome_n when_o you_o separate_v mi._n but_o there_o be_v no_o ministerial_a church_n in_o rome_n since_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n but_o what_o be_v from_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n con._n therefore_o there_o be_v no_o such_o church_n in_o rome_n when_o you_o separate_v mr._n cranf_n say_v that_o all_o that_o the_o pope_n do_v be_v not_o antichristian_a dr._n chamb._n reply_v ma._n if_o the_o pope_n be_v the_o root_n of_o antichrist_n then_o all_o ministerial_a officer_n from_o he_o be_v antichristian_a mi._n but_o the_o pope_n be_v the_o root_n of_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o all_o ministerial_a officer_n from_o he_o be_v antichristian_a as_o branch_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o consequence_n though_o the_o pope_n be_v the_o root_n of_o antichrist_n yet_o all_o ministerial_a officer_n under_o he_o be_v not_o antichristian_a dr._n chamb._n then_o mention_v mat._n 7.16_o 17_o 18._o but_o there_o be_v a_o disorderly_a discourse_n he_o argue_v thus_o ma._n if_o all_o power_n derive_v from_o the_o pope_n acknowledge_v his_o power_n as_o a_o power_n over_o all_o church_n than_o they_o be_v all_o antichristian_a mi._n but_o all_o power_n derive_v from_o the_o pope_n acknowledge_v the_o pope_n power_n as_o a_o power_n over_o all_o church_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v all_o antichristian_a mr._n cranf_n then_o fall_v into_o discourse_n again_o and_o say_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n at_o the_o time_n when_o luther_n separate_v be_v a_o true_a church_n dr._n chamb._n offer_v to_o prove_v it_o be_v then_o no_o true_a church_n ma._n where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a sacrament_n there_o be_v no_o true_a church_n min._n but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v there_o be_v no_o true_a sacrament_n con._n therefore_o then_o there_o be_v no_o true_a church_n the_o minor_a be_v deny_v that_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v there_o be_v true_a sacrament_n which_o be_v thus_o argue_v against_o ma._n where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a baptism_n there_o be_v no_o true_a sacrament_n mi._n but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v there_o be_v no_o true_a baptism_n con._n therefore_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v there_o be_v no_o true_a sacrament_n mr._n cranf_n there_o be_v a_o true_a baptism_n dr._n chamb._n ma._n where_o it_o be_v not_o administer_v on_o the_o true_a subject_n there_o be_v no_o true_a baptism_n mi._n but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v baptism_n be_v not_o administer_v on_o the_o true_a subject_n con._n therefore_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v there_o be_v no_o true_a baptism_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o minor_a which_o be_v to_o affirm_v that_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v baptism_n be_v administer_v on_o the_o true_a subject_n dr._n chamb._n pâ—â—â—â—â—ed_v his_o argument_n thus_o ma._n they_o that_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d red_a 〈◊〉_d noâ—_n on_o believer_n and_o repenter_n administer_v 〈…〉_o the_o true_a subject_n mi._n but_o the_o châ—â—â—h_n of_o â—â—me_n when_o luther_n separate_v do_v not_o administer_v it_o on_o believer_n and_o repenter_n con._n therefore_o they_o do_v not_o administer_v it_o on_o the_o true_a subject_n minor_n be_v to_o be_v prove_v ma._n they_o that_o administer_v it_o on_o child_n administer_v it_o not_o on_o believer_n and_o repenter_n mi._n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o luther_n separate_v administer_v it_o to_o child_n con._n therefore_o they_o do_v not_o administer_v it_o on_o believer_n and_o repenter_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o major_a dr._n chamb._n ask_v whether_o child_n can_v believe_v and_o repent_v mr._n cranf_n answer_v they_o have_v faith_n and_o repentance_n in_o their_o parent_n but_o he_o deny_v the_o major_n because_o though_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v administer_v baptism_n on_o child_n suppose_v they_o a_o false_a subject_n yet_o they_o may_v administer_v it_o on_o other_o also_o and_o may_v administer_v it_o both_o on_o true_a and_o false_a and_o the_o administration_n on_o the_o false_a do_v not_o hinder_v but_o it_o may_v be_v administer_v on_o the_o true_a also_o hereupon_o dr._n chamb._n undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o do_v administer_v it_o to_o none_o but_o false_a by_o the_o syllogism_n follow_v ma._n they_o that_o only_o administer_v baptism_n to_o no_o believer_n or_o misbeliever_n to_o no_o repenter_n or_o mis-repenters_a administer_v it_o only_o to_o the_o false_a subject_n mi._n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n administer_v it_o only_o to_o no_o believer_n or_o misbeliever_n to_o no_o repenter_n or_o mis-repenters_a as_o child_n and_o roman_a proselyte_n con._n therefore_o to_o none_o but_o false_a subject_n here_o dr._n chamb._n be_v desire_v to_o return_v to_o the_o first_o question_n and_o so_o he_o proceed_v to_o this_o argument_n follow_v out_o of_o 2_o cor._n 11.20_o ma._n they_o that_o bring_v the_o flock_n into_o bondage_n or_o devour_v they_o or_o take_v of_o they_o or_o exalt_v themselves_o or_o smite_v they_o on_o the_o face_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mi._n but_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n do_v some_o or_o all_o of_o these_o conclus_fw-la therefore_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v both_o but_o desire_v dr._n chamb._n rather_o to_o prove_v the_o major_a wherein_o mr._n cranf_n be_v to_o hold_v that_o they_o who_o bring_v the_o flock_n into_o bondage_n or_o devour_v they_o or_o take_v of_o they_o or_o exalt_v themselves_o or_o smite_v they_o on_o the_o face_n be_v the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n this_o be_v think_v somewhat_o strange_a be_v the_o major_n be_v the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o text._n but_o dr._n chamb._n proceed_v ma._n they_o that_o be_v fool_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mi._n but_o they_o that_o bring_v the_o flock_n into_o bondage_n or_o devour_v they_o or_o take_v of_o they_o or_o smite_v they_o on_o the_o face_n be_v fool_n con._n therefore_o they_o that_o bring_v the_o flock_n into_o bondage_n or_o devour_v they_o or_o take_v of_o they_o or_o smite_v they_o on_o the_o face_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o major_n be_v again_o deny_v whereat_o dr._n chamb._n profess_v he_o be_v not_o a_o little_a startle_v that_o mr._n cranford_n shall_v allow_v fool_n to_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n for_o though_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n may_v be_v sometime_o account_v fool_n yet_o he_o can_v not_o imagine_v that_o fool_n shall_v be_v account_v minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n but_o this_o syllogism_n follow_v ma._n they_o that_o be_v not_o qualify_v as_o 1_o tim._n 3._o and_o tit._n 1._o be_v no_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mi._n but_o fool_n be_v not_o qualify_v as_o 1_o tim._n 3._o and_o tit._n 1._o con._n therefore_o they_o be_v no_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n here_o be_v please_v to_o confirm_v the_o text_n by_o way_n of_o restraint_n only_o to_o the_o wicked_a fool_n though_o the_o quallification_n require_v a_o vindication_n from_o idiotism_n also_o as_o verse_n 2._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o verse_n 4._o and_o 6._o of_o 1_o tim._n 3._o and_o verse_n 9_o of_o tit._n 1._o and_o therefore_o mr._n cranf_n affirm_v that_o man_n may_v be_v wicked_a yea_o false_a and_o yet_o the_o true_a minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n whereupon_o dr._n chamb._n say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o devil_n themselves_o in_o some_o sense_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o christ_n in_o execute_v his_o judgement_n and_o all_o the_o wicked_a also_o in_o such_o
a_o lawful_a assembly_n vers_n 39_o or_o unlawful_a vers_fw-la 32_o 41._o but_o by_o way_n of_o excellency_n because_o no_o assembly_n so_o worthy_a as_o that_o which_o be_v call_v together_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n therefore_o it_o be_v ordinary_o take_v for_o such_o wherein_o we_o must_v also_o distinguish_v between_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o church_n of_o christ_n the_o church_n comprehend_v all_o the_o faithful_a saint_n from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n to_o the_o end_n as_o ephes_n 1.22_o and_o 3.21_o and_o 5.23_o etc._n etc._n col._n 1.18.24_o and_o 1_o cor._n 12.28_o heb._n 12.23_o a_o church_n of_o christ_n also_o be_v take_v for_o any_o church_n of_o christ_n respective_o as_o mat._n 18.17_o and_o 1_o cor._n 14._o and_o 4.17_o etc._n etc._n 1_o cor._n 7.17_o and_o 11.16.15.9_o philip._n 3.6_o and_o it_o have_v also_o several_a other_o appellation_n as_o house_n city_n body_n spouse_n and_o family_n or_o definitive_o either_o and_o that_o a_o uncertain_a providentiall_a assembly_n or_o meeting_n as_o mat._n 18.20_o wheresoever_o two_o or_o three_o be_v gather_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ._n in_o which_o sense_n mr._n cranf_n distinguish_v it_o ecclesia_fw-la fidelium_fw-la or_o more_o settle_v and_o constant_a which_o likewise_o be_v distingui_v by_o time_n nation_n or_o place_n distinguish_v by_o time_n we_o read_v act._n 7.38_o the_o church_n in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o by_o nation_n rom._n 16.4_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o gentile_n by_o place_n as_o country_n α_n kingdom_n β_n province_n γ_n by_o country_n α_n 1_o cor._n 16.19_o church_n of_o asia_n and_o by_o kingdom_n β_n 2_o cor._n 8.1_o of_o macedonia_n and_o by_o province_n γ_n as_o galatia_n 1_o cor._n 16.1_o gal._n 1.2_o and_o judea_n gal._n 1.22_o city_n of_o corinth_n 1_o cor._n 12._o and_o 2_o cor._n 1.1_o ephesus_n smyrna_n pergamus_n thyatyra_n sardis_n philadelphia_n laodicea_n revel_v 1.11_o and_o house_n as_o aquila_n and_o prisscilla_n 1_o cor._n 16.19_o rom._n 16.3_o 5._o and_o nymphas_n col._n 4.15_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v then_o and_o so_o long_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n as_o she_o say_v and_o do_v what_o christ_n give_v she_o to_o say_v and_o do_v even_o as_o christ_n himself_o john_n 7.17_o and_o 8.26_o 28._o and_o 12.5_o and_o 14.10_o 24._o and_o 5.19.30_o and_o when_o she_o say_v or_o do_v otherwise_o she_o speak_v or_o play_v the_o harlot_n in_o that_o particular_a by_o organical_a be_v mean_v a_o definite_a settle_a church_n of_o christ_n complete_v with_o officer_n as_o a_o body_n with_o member_n 1_o cor._n 12.12_o here_o dr._n chamb._n be_v call_v upon_o to_o prove_v that_o presbyter_n do_v forbid_v minister_n of_o a_o true_a church_n he_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o syllogism_n ma._n they_o that_o forbid_v minister_n ordain_v by_o the_o presbytery_n of_o baptise_a church_n forbid_v minister_n of_o a_o true_a church_n mi._n but_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian_a minister_n forbid_v minister_n ordain_v by_o the_o presbytery_n of_o baptise_a church_n con._n therefore_o minister_n of_o london_n prebyterian_a minister_n forbid_v minister_n of_o a_o true_a church_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o major_n because_o no_o true_a presbytery_n and_o because_o no_o true_a church_n but_o desire_v that_o the_o last_o shall_v be_v prove_v to_o which_o dr._n chamb._n argue_v ma._n they_o that_o have_v the_o true_a mark_n of_o a_o true_a church_n be_v a_o true_a church_n mi._n but_o baptise_a church_n have_v the_o true_a mark_n of_o a_o true_a church_n con._n therefore_o they_o be_v a_o true_a church_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o minor_a which_o be_v thus_o prove_v ma._n they_o that_o have_v true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o true_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n have_v the_o true_a mark_n of_o a_o true_a church_n mi._n but_o baptise_a church_n have_v true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o true_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n con._n therefore_o they_o have_v the_o true_a mark_n of_o a_o true_a church_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o minor_n that_o they_o neither_o have_v true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n nor_o true_a administration_n of_o the_o sacramets_n dr._n chamb._n ask_v which_o he_o shall_v prove_v mr._n cranf_n bid_v he_o prove_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n ma._n they_o that_o have_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n have_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n mi._n but_o baptise_a church_n have_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n con._n therefore_o baptise_a church_n have_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o mi._n but_o bid_v he_o prove_v baptism_n ma._n they_o that_o have_v the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n in_o the_o true_a manner_n and_o on_o the_o true_a subject_n have_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o baptism_n mi._n but_o baptise_a church_n have_v the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n in_o the_o true_a manner_n and_o on_o the_o true_a subject_n con._n therefore_o baptise_a church_n have_v the_o true_a administration_n of_o baptism_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o mi._n dr._n chamb._n ask_v whether_o he_o shall_v prove_v first_o the_o manner_n or_o the_o subject_n mr._n cranf_n say_v any_o which_o he_o will_v then_o say_v dr._n chamb._n first_o i_o will_v prove_v the_o manner_n and_o then_o the_o subject_a ma._n they_o that_o administer_v baptism_n in_o the_o same_o manner_n as_o it_o be_v administer_v unto_o christ_n matth._n 13.16_o and_o as_o philip_n administer_v it_o to_o the_o eunuch_n act._n 8.38_o have_v the_o true_a manner_n of_o administration_n of_o baptism_n mr._n cranf_n cry_v out_o and_o some_o with_o he_o prove_v the_o subject_n for_o that_o be_v desire_v by_o some_o here_o then_o dr._n chamb._n proceed_v ma._n they_o that_o administer_v baptism_n on_o believer_n and_o repenter_n administer_v baptism_n on_o the_o true_a subject_n mi._n but_o baptise_a church_n administer_v baptism_n on_o repenter_n and_o believer_n con._n therefore_o baptise_a church_n administer_v it_o on_o the_o true_a subject_n the_o mi._n be_v deny_v and_o thus_o prove_v ma._n they_o that_o administer_v baptism_n upon_o those_o that_o confess_v their_o sin_n and_o profess_v their_o faith_n administer_v baptism_n on_o the_o true_a subject_n mi._n but_o baptise_a church_n administer_v it_o upon_o those_o that_o confess_v their_o sin_n and_o profess_v their_o faith_n con._n therefore_o baptise_a church_n administer_v baptism_n on_o the_o true_a subject_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o minor_a and_o say_v they_o do_v not_o baptise_v such_o as_o do_v confess_v their_o sin_n and_o profess_v their_o faith_n dr._n cham._n say_v that_o may_v be_v attest_v by_o any_o that_o ever_o be_v present_a at_o their_o baptism_n beside_o it_o be_v against_o their_o very_a principle_n if_o they_o shall_v not_o do_v so_o say_v mr._n cranf_n i_o say_v they_o do_v not_o baptise_v believer_n and_o repenter_n say_v dr._n chamb._n now_o you_o go_v back_o to_o the_o former_a syllogism_n mr._n cranf_n say_v they_o do_v not_o baptise_v believer_n and_o repenter_n but_o renegado_n dr._n chamb._n say_v i_o give_v no_o ill_a language_n but_o use_v the_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o be_v angry_a with_o the_o language_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n when_o i_o must_v use_v it_o in_o argument_n renegado_n be_v language_n of_o scripture_n say_v mr._n cranf_n where_o say_v dr._n chamberlain_n mr._n cranf_n say_a because_o it_o signify_v apostate_n say_fw-la dr._n cha._n then_o why_o do_v you_o not_o rather_o use_v that_o word_n the_o debate_n here_o make_v dr._n chamb._n forget_v to_o take_v notice_n how_o in_o deny_v the_o baptism_n of_o believer_n and_o repenter_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o conclusion_n but_o he_o proceed_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o do_v baptise_v believer_n and_o repenter_n ma._n they_o that_o baptize_v such_o as_o shall_v be_v save_v baptize_v believer_n and_o repenter_n minor_n but_o baptize_v church_n baptize_v such_o as_o shall_v be_v save_v con._n therefore_o they_o baptize_v believer_n and_o repenter_n mr_n cranf_n deny_v the_o major_a dr._n chamb._n urge_v mark_n 16.16_o whosoever_o believe_v and_o be_v baptize_v shall_v be_v save_v mr._n cranf_n deny_v it_o dr._n chamb._n reply_v contra_fw-la principia_fw-la negantem_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la disputandum_fw-la say_v mr._n cranf_n you_o be_v to_o prove_v it_o dr_n chamb._n then_o argue_v thus_o major_n they_o that_o baptize_v such_o as_o confess_v with_o their_o mouth_n the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o believe_v in_o their_o heart_n that_o god_n have_v raise_v he_o from_o the_o dead_a rom._n 10._o baptize_v such_o as_o shall_v be_v save_v mi._n but_o baptize_v church_n baptize_v such_o as_o confess_v with_o their_o mouth_n the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o believe_v with_o their_o heart_n that_o god_n have_v raise_v he_o from_o the_o dead_a
the_o dispute_n between_o mr._n cranford_n and_o dr._n chamberlain_n at_o the_o house_n of_o mr._n william_n webb_n at_o the_o end_n of_o bartholomew_n lane_n by_o the_o old_a exchange_n on_o march_n 1._o 1652_o and_o april_n 1._o 6._o 13._o publish_a for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o all_o that_o love_v the_o truth_n matth_n 11.19_o wisdom_n be_v justify_v of_o her_o child_n london_n print_v by_o gartrude_n dawson_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v by_o gyles_n calvert_n at_o the_o black_a spread-eagle_n near_o the_o west_n end_n of_o paul_n 1652._o that_o the_o child_n of_o truth_n may_v be_v sustain_v with_o truth_n as_o the_o child_n of_o error_n gorge_v themselves_o with_o the_o contrary_n it_o have_v be_v think_v requisite_a by_o divers_a to_o let_v those_o hour_n fly_v abroad_o into_o the_o world_n with_o faithful_a record_n which_o be_v for_o a_o while_n limit_v to_o a_o private_a house_n and_o small_a auditory_a dr._n chamberlain_n be_v at_o first_o confine_v to_o two_o or_o three_o of_o his_o party_n and_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o mr._n cranfords_n party_n unconfined_a the_o occasion_n be_v from_o one_o of_o mr._n william_n webb_n servant_n mr._n john_n more_n who_o be_v convince_v of_o the_o erroneous_a practice_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v baptise_a the_o first_o of_o february_n one_o thousand_o six_o hundred_o fifty_o two_o whereupon_o his_o master_n be_v displease_v these_o letter_n and_o dispute_n follow_v be_v occasion_v the_o copy_n of_o a_o letter_n leave_v at_o dr._n chamberlen_n about_o the_o second_o or_o three_o of_o february_n last_o a_o letter_n leave_v at_o my_o house_n intimate_v the_o first_o occasion_n of_o this_o dispute_n brother_z chamberlain_n our_o brother_n john_n more_o who_o be_v late_o baptize_v and_o myself_o be_v here_o to_o acquaint_v you_o that_o through_o the_o earnest_a solicitation_n of_o his_o master_n who_o be_v at_o present_a very_o much_o displease_v with_o he_o about_o his_o present_a judgement_n he_o be_v engage_v to_o procure_v your_o assistance_n under_o god_n to_o dispute_v these_o two_o point_n with_o mr._n cranford_n our_o brother_n master_n be_v very_o confident_a that_o mr._n cranford_n will_v give_v you_o the_o foil_n therein_o the_o question_n be_v these_o 1_o whether_o or_o no_o a_o private_a person_n may_v preach_v without_o ordination_n 2_o whether_o or_o no_o the_o presbyterian-minister_n be_v not_o the_o true_a minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n our_o brother_n master_n desire_v the_o meeting_n shall_v be_v at_o his_o house_n he_o have_v a_o convenient_a room_n we_o desire_v you_o will_v consider_v of_o the_o challenge_n and_o likewise_o of_o a_o convenient_a time_n to_o meet_v mr._n cranford_n which_o be_v all_o at_o present_a from_o your_o ever_o love_a brother_n john_n more_n john_n spittlehouse_n at_o your_o house_n february_n 2._o 1652._o upon_o which_o letter_n dr._n chamberlain_n consent_v to_o a_o meeting_n when_o mr._n cranford_n shall_v appoint_v the_o question_n be_v send_v he_o under_o mr._n web_n hand_n but_o be_v delay_v and_o the_o noise_n of_o it_o be_v among_o mr._n cranford_n party_n they_o begin_v to_o report_v that_o dr._n chamberlain_n dare_v not_o meet_v which_o put_v mr._n john_n more_o to_o a_o more_o eager_a prosecute_n of_o the_o business_n with_o his_o master_n and_o mr._n cranford_n till_o at_o last_o he_o go_v with_o a_o paper_n whereof_o the_o copy_n follow_v from_o his_o master_n to_o mr._n cranford_n the_o copy_n of_o the_o paper_n be_v thus_o the_o question_n state_v by_o mr._n william_n webb_n he_o engage_v for_o mr._n cranford_n his_o appearance_n to_o dispute_v they_o with_o dr._n chamberlain_n for_o who_o i_o engage_v feb._n 24._o 1652._o john_n more_o sir_n the_o express_a word_n be_v these_o which_o if_o you_o shall_v please_v to_o correct_v you_o may_v provide_v you_o underwrite_v they_o 1_o whether_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v not_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n 2_o whether_o private_a man_n i_o mean_v tradesman_n may_v preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n without_o ordination_n in_o the_o city_n of_o london_n this_o paper_n be_v present_v by_o the_o say_a mr._n more_o to_o mr._n cranford_n which_o he_o own_v but_o will_v not_o subscribe_v it_o to_o my_o much_o desire_a friend_n mr._n cranford_n sir_n although_o the_o discourse_n that_o pass_v between_o we_o have_v do_v that_o work_n which_o you_o say_v you_o intend_v yet_o have_v it_o not_o take_v that_o effect_n i_o desire_v so_o long_o as_o you_o be_v disobedient_a to_o the_o truth_n and_o so_o many_o misreport_v scatter_v into_o the_o ear_n of_o those_o that_o be_v not_o present_a i_o shall_v therefore_o humble_o desire_v you_o to_o peruse_v these_o our_o discourse_n in_o all_o faithfulness_n too_o your_o own_o soul_n they_o come_v forth_o with_o the_o syllogism_n complete_v that_o they_o may_v not_o be_v fruitless_a to_o the_o reader_n i_o have_v not_o accompany_v they_o with_o many_o observation_n till_o i_o see_v what_o acceptance_n they_o find_v on_o your_o behalf_n for_o i_o will_v fain_o win_v you_o by_o truth_n and_o love_n if_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o our_o discourse_n be_v not_o in_o you_o may_v if_o you_o please_v supply_v what_o be_v want_v from_o some_o of_o your_o party_n on_o who_o i_o have_v wait_v somewhat_o the_o long_a in_o expectation_n that_o you_o will_v have_v publish_v they_o as_o be_v report_v if_o yet_o you_o be_v not_o convince_v but_o desire_v rather_o to_o mend_v any_o of_o your_o answer_n or_o discourse_n and_o to_o proceed_v in_o writing_n as_o former_o in_o speaking_n i_o shall_v be_v ready_a to_o endeavour_v your_o satisfaction_n by_o write_v also_o provide_v that_o whatsoever_o be_v publish_v on_o your_o behalf_n do_v bear_v your_o name_n since_o no_o man_n can_v likely_o meddle_v with_o your_o business_n without_o your_o approbation_n in_o all_o which_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v not_o to_o depart_v from_o the_o civility_n and_o sincerity_n of_o be_v you_o in_o the_o lord_n peter_z chamberlain_n a_o prayer_n o_o father_n of_o light_n john_n 1.17_o who_o give_v thy_o son_n john_n 3.17_o a_o light_n unto_o the_o world_n chap._n 12.46_o to_o be_v the_o way_n the_o truth_n and_o the_o life_n chap._n 14.6_o who_o have_v promise_v to_o give_v a_o mouth_n and_o wisdom_n to_o thy_o servant_n which_o all_o their_o adversary_n shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o gainsay_v nor_o resist_v luke_n 21.15_o unveil_v thy_o truth_n o_o lord_n to_o all_o that_o love_v it_o that_o they_o may_v find_v and_o come_v into_o the_o way_n which_o lead_v unto_o eternal_a life_n and_o give_v i_o a_o mouth_n and_o wisdom_n to_o convince_v gainsayer_n to_o the_o save_n of_o soul_n tit._n 1.9_o through_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n amen_n on_o the_o 25._o of_o march_n 1652._o be_v the_o first_o meeting_n the_o result_n whereof_o follow_v after_o prayer_n against_o prejudicacy_n and_o for_o the_o the_o truth_n and_o a_o solemn_a protestation_n to_o endeavour_v truth_n not_o victory_n the_o question_n be_v read_v by_o dr._n chamberlain_n and_o own_a by_o mr._n cranford_n to_o have_v be_v present_v to_o he_o it_o be_v think_v good_a to_o fall_v upon_o the_o last_o first_o according_a to_o the_o first_o letter_n because_o it_o be_v a_o subject_n which_o have_v be_v former_o dispute_v of_o between_o mr._n cranford_n and_o mr._n rowley_n at_o one_o mr._n williamson_n mr._n chamberlain_n come_v in_o accidental_o the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o dispute_v end_v in_o this_o that_o mr._n cranford_n free_o grant_v that_o in_o eclesia_fw-la non_fw-la constituta_fw-la or_o male_a constituta_fw-la it_o be_v not_o only_o lawful_a for_o any_o man_n but_o any_o woman_n or_o maid_n to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n the_o argument_n then_o by_o dr._n chamberlain_n have_v be_v from_o 1_o cor._n 14.31_o where_o all_o may_v prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o and_o from_o rom._n 16.1_o where_o phebe_n be_v term_v a_o deaconesse_n of_o the_o church_n of_o cenchrea_n and_o divers_a other_o place_n and_o instance_n of_o deborah_n and_o hâ—ldad_n and_o 1_o cor._n 11.5_o act._n 21.9_o act._n 18.26_o pilip_n 4.3_o etc._n etc._n the_o question_n send_v be_v whether_o private_a man_n i_o mean_v tradesman_n may_v preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n without_o ordination_n in_o the_o city_n of_o london_n but_o mr._n cranford_n not_o like_v of_o the_o question_n in_o those_o term_n the_o question_n alter_v by_o he_o be_v thus_o whether_o prvate_a man_n or_o tradesman_n may_v preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n without_o ordination_n have_v propound_v the_o question_n he_o explain_v it_o as_o follow_v that_o by_o private_a man_n he_o mean_v in_o reference_n to_o station_n or_o call_v and_o that_o son_n of_o the_o prophet_n may_v be_v private_a man_n though_o public_a by_o designation_n by_o preach_v he_o mean_v to_o expound_v and_o apply_v to_o admonish_v exhort_v reprove_v preach_v be_v
either_o authoritative_a or_o charitative_a ordinary_a or_o occasionaliter_fw-la publicae_fw-la or_o private_a that_o be_v authoritative_o or_o in_o charity_n ordinary_o or_o occasional_o public_o or_o private_o whence_o he_o lay_v down_o this_o thesis_n that_o no_o private_a man_n that_o intend_v not_o the_o ministry_n may_v exhort_v admonish_v reprove_v authoritative_o ordinary_o and_o public_o in_o a_o true_a church_n without_o ordination_n by_o ordination_n he_o mean_v approbation_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o preach_a presbytery_n candidati_fw-la may_v preach_v several_a time_n and_o a_o considerable_a number_n of_o time_n for_o approbation_n by_o authoritative_o he_o mean_v in_o relation_n to_o christ_n and_o men._n then_o mr._n cranf_n lay_v down_o these_o thesis_n he_o that_o be_v a_o tradesman_n and_o continue_v so_o ought_v not_o to_o preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n not_o be_v ordain_v major_a and_o be_v once_o ordain_v he_o ought_v not_o to_o work_n by_o the_o change_n of_o the_o question_n and_o those_o several_a limitation_n restriction_n and_o distinction_n it_o be_v almost_o bring_v to_o what_o dr._n chamb._n may_v within_o a_o little_a have_v consent_v to_o but_o upon_o these_o last_o thesis_n dr._n chamb._n infer_v this_o minor_a follow_v min._n but_o paul_n be_v a_o tentmaker_n and_o do_v continue_v so_o notwithstanding_o his_o preach_v act._n 18.1_o 2_o 3._o and_o 20.34_o and_o 1_o thes_n 2.9_o conclu_n therefore_o tradesman_n ordain_v minister_n or_o ordain_v minister_n may_n work_n major_n mr._n cranf_n answer_v that_o though_o paul_n may_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o other_o minister_n to_o work_n whereupon_o dr._n chamb._n reply_v min._n but_o the_o elder_n of_o ephesus_n act._n 20.17_o ought_v to_o work_n verse_n 35._o conclus_fw-la therefore_o minister_n ordain_v may_n work_n there_o be_v no_o answer_n by_o negation_n or_o distinction_n but_o a_o miscelaine_n of_o discourse_n therefore_o dr._n chamb._n proceed_v as_o follow_v ma._n if_o paul_n be_v ordain_v to_o preach_v and_o more_o privilege_v from_o work_v than_o other_o may_v work_v than_o other_o less_o privilege_v may_v work_v also_o min._n but_o paul_n be_v ordain_v to_o preach_v and_o more_o privilege_v from_o work_v than_o other_o may_v work_n conclus_fw-la therefore_o other_o less_o privilege_v from_o work_n may_v work_v also_o mr._n cranf_n affirm_v that_o paul_n be_v not_o more_o privilege_v from_o work_n dr._n chamb._n prove_v it_o from_o 1_o cor._n 9.6_o have_v not_o we_o power_n to_o forbear_v work_v etc._n etc._n the_o whole_a scope_n of_o the_o place_n be_v to_o set_v forth_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n privilege_n above_o other_o which_o be_v deny_v by_o mr._n cranf_n dr._n chamb._n refer_v it_o to_o the_o auditory_a whereupon_o mr._n cranf_n affirm_v that_o the_o privilege_n to_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v not_o more_o but_o be_v common_a to_o other_o dr._n chamb._n then_o reply_v if_o paul_n who_o be_v like_o privilege_a as_o other_o may_v work_v than_o other_o may_v work_v also_o here_o mr._n cranf_n make_v a_o long_a discourse_n in_o the_o close_a whereof_o upon_o some_o word_n interpose_v by_o dr._n chamb._n mr._n cranf_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n affirm_v that_o whosoever_o have_v a_o immediate_a call_n by_o christ_n may_v preach_v any_o where_o without_o ordination_n to_o this_o dr._n chamb._n argue_v ma._n they_o who_o be_v immediate_o call_v by_o christ_n may_v preach_v any_o where_n without_o ordination_n min._n but_o some_o tradesman_n be_v immediate_o call_v by_o christ_n con._n therefore_o some_o tradesman_n may_v preach_v without_o ordination_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o minor_a which_o dr._n chamberlain_n prove_v thus_o ma._n they_o who_o be_v immediate_o call_v by_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n be_v immediate_o call_v by_o christ_n mi._n but_o some_o tradesman_n be_v immediate_o call_v by_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n con._n therefore_o some_o tradesman_n be_v immediate_o call_v by_o christ_n the_o minor_a be_v deny_v ma._n they_o who_o be_v gift_v by_o the_o immediate_a read_n of_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n be_v immediate_o call_v by_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n mi._n but_o some_o tradesman_n be_v gift_v by_o the_o immediate_a read_n of_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n con._n therefore_o some_o tradesman_n be_v immediate_o call_v by_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n there_o dr._n chamb._n understand_v that_o mr._n cranf_n do_v not_o allow_v gift_n by_o the_o word_n to_o be_v gift_n of_o christ_n whereupon_o he_o offer_v this_o syllogism_n ma._n all_o that_o be_v gift_v be_v gift_v by_o christ_n ephesian_n 4.8_o 1_o peter_n 4.10_o mi._n but_o they_o that_o be_v gift_v by_o the_o word_n be_v gift_v con._n therefore_o they_o that_o be_v gift_v by_o the_o word_n be_v gift_v by_o christ_n rom._n 1.12_o and_o 1_o cor._n 12._o be_v also_o instance_a mr._n cranfords_n answer_n be_v that_o those_o gift_n be_v limit_v to_o man_n approbation_n not_o to_o execution_n till_o after_o approbation_n but_o after_o approbation_n they_o not_o only_o may_v but_o must_v preach_v which_o dr._n chamb._n refer_v to_o the_o auditory_a because_o it_o seem_v to_o contradict_v what_o he_o have_v former_o consent_v to_o and_o seem_v to_o set_v up_o the_o approbation_n of_o man_n above_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n and_o to_o oppose_v the_o command_n of_o the_o apostle_n 1_o peter_n 4.10_o on_o this_o reference_n there_o be_v a_o discourse_n between_o mr._n cran._n and_o dr._n cham._n whereupon_o on_o some_o question_n propound_v by_o mr_n cranf_n these_o follow_a particular_n be_v agree_v to_o and_o subscribe_v by_o dr._n chamb._n in_o a_o true_a church_n organical_a of_o christ_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o any_o man_n to_o preach_v or_o prophesy_v ordinary_o in_o the_o ordinary_a sense_n without_o approbation_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n nor_o at_o all_o unless_o it_o be_v in_o reference_n to_o the_o say_a approbation_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n except_o they_o have_v immediate_a infallible_a revelation_n upon_o further_a discourse_n mr._n cranf_n affirm_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o any_o out_o of_o office_n to_o prophesy_v dr._n chamb._n affirm_v it_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o to_o prophesy_v 1_o cor._n 14.31_o else_o the_o whole_a church_n may_v be_v officer_n mr._n cranf_n upon_o further_a proceed_n say_v that_o by_o prophet_n he_o mean_v such_o as_o have_v immediate_a inspiration_n by_o teacher_n such_o as_o instruct_v other_o by_o ordinary_a what_o be_v in_o relation_n to_o endowment_n or_o frequency_n that_o revelation_n of_o scripture_n he_o count_v ordinary_a that_o ordinary_a revelation_n be_v to_o the_o conscience_n extraordinary_a to_o knowledge_n immediate_a revelation_n be_v such_o as_o be_v to_o bâ—laaâ—_n num._n 23._o immediate_n teach_v be_v such_o 〈◊〉_d judas_n from_o christ_n and_o that_o be_v no_o revelation_n that_o be_v either_o by_o preach_v or_o read_v then_o dr._n chamb._n instance_a that_o of_o peter_n mat._n 16._o where_o christ_n say_v flesh_n and_o blood_n have_v not_o reveal_v this_o unto_o thou_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v ordinary_o preach_v and_o know_v so_o that_o the_o devil_n can_v tell_v that_o he_o be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n mark_n 1.31_o and_o it_o be_v declare_v at_o his_o birth_n mat._n 3.17_o etc._n etc._n and_o 1_o cor._n 2.14_o the_o natural_a man_n receive_v not_o the_o thing_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n mr._n cranf_n here_o will_v have_v distinguish_v upon_o the_o word_n receive_v as_o different_a from_o knowledge_n though_o the_o word_n follow_v do_v in_o express_a term_n say_v neither_o can_v he_o know_v they_o for_o they_o be_v spiritual_o discern_v therefore_o dr_n ch._n affirm_v that_o knowledge_n to_o be_v extraordinary_a whensoever_o scripture_n be_v reveal_v without_o man_n teach_n but_o mr._n cranf_n affirm_v that_o extraordinary_a be_v not_o by_o scripture_n nor_o spirit_n but_o by_o vision_n or_o dream_n which_o upon_o revew_n he_o mend_v and_o say_v not_o only_o by_o scripture_n and_o spirit_n but_o also_o by_o vision_n and_o dream_n but_o this_o be_v the_o close_a of_o the_o first_o meeting_n end_v in_o prayer_n the_o second_o meeting_n at_o mr._n webb_n be_v on_o the_o first_o of_o april_n 1652._o after_o prayer_n and_o solemn_a protestation_n as_o before_o dr._n chamb._n have_v desire_v there_o may_v be_v no_o offence_n take_v at_o the_o phrase_n of_o the_o scripture_n which_o he_o shall_v make_v use_n of_o in_o his_o argument_n the_o question_n be_v read_v whether_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n take_v the_o affirmative_a dr._n chamb._n be_v to_o prove_v the_o negative_a the_o first_o argument_n be_v take_v from_o 2_o cor._n 11.15_o major_n they_o that_o be_v transform_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n minor_n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian
be_v transform_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n conclusion_n therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o minor_a to_o wit_n that_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v transform_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n dr._n chamb._n prove_v it_o ma._n they_o that_o be_v not_o form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n be_v transform_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v not_o form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n con._n therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v transform_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o righteousness_n the_o minor_a be_v deny_v which_o be_v thus_o prove_v ma._n they_o that_o be_v form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n be_v not_o form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n conclus_fw-la therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v not_o form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o minor_a be_v again_o to_o be_v prove_v ma._n they_o that_o be_v ordain_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n be_v form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v ordain_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v form_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n the_o mi._n be_v again_o deny_v and_o thus_o prove_v ma._n they_o that_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o manner_n succession_n and_o power_n of_o antichrist_n be_v ordain_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v ordain_v in_o the_o manner_n succession_n and_o power_n of_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v ordain_v as_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o mi._n which_o contain_v three_o particular_n and_o therefore_o three_o several_a series_n of_o sylogisme_n first_o for_o the_o manner_n this_o syllogism_n be_v prepare_v ma._n they_o that_o be_v common_o require_v to_o have_v have_v their_o education_n in_o school_n to_o be_v furnish_v with_o antichristian_a title_n to_o have_v approbation_n from_o man_n of_o such_o title_n and_o send_v from_o they_o to_o be_v over_o a_o flock_n oftentimes_o whether_o the_o flock_n will_v or_o no_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o antichrist_n for_o the_o pope_n likewise_o dispense_v sometime_o with_o education_n and_o title_n and_o some_o flock_n be_v not_o unwilling_a to_o receive_v antichristian_o mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v common_o require_v to_o have_v have_v their_o education_n in_o school_n to_o be_v furnish_v with_o antichristian_a title_n and_o approve_v by_o man_n of_o such_o title_n and_o by_o they_o send_v out_o to_o be_v over_o a_o flock_n oftentimes_o whether_o the_o flock_n will_v or_o no._n con._n therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v ordain_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o antichrist_n but_o the_o succession_n be_v desire_v to_o be_v prove_v and_o therefore_o the_o syllogism_n for_o that_o follow_v ma._n they_o that_o have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n be_v ordain_v in_o succession_n of_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbiterian-minister_n have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n presbyterian-minister_n be_v ordain_v in_o the_o succession_n of_o antichrist_n the_o mi._n be_v deny_v and_o thus_o prove_v ma._n if_o they_o have_v it_o by_o succession_n and_o there_o be_v no_o other_o succession_n but_o from_o antichrist_n then_o they_o have_v it_o by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o they_o have_v it_o by_o succession_n and_o there_o be_v no_o other_o succession_n but_o from_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o they_o have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n here_o dr._n chamb._n desire_a to_o express_v that_o by_o succession_n he_o mean_v public_a succession_n allow_v of_o by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o nation_n which_o mr._n cranf_n assent_v to_o and_o deny_v the_o mi._n which_o be_v thus_o prove_v ma._n they_o that_o have_v their_o ordination_n from_o the_o bishop_n have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o the_o minister_n of_o london_n prsbyterian-minister_n have_v their_o ordination_n from_o the_o bishop_n con._n therefore_o they_o have_v it_o by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n here_o the_o dispute_n grow_v into_o some_o disorder_n but_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v prove_v be_v they_o that_o have_v their_o ordination_n from_o bishop_n have_v it_o from_o antichrist_n as_o thus_o ma._n if_o bishop_n themselves_o have_v their_o ordination_n from_o antichrist_n than_o they_o that_o have_v their_o ordination_n from_o bishop_n have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n mi._n but_o bishop_n themselves_o have_v their_o ordination_n from_o antichrist_n con._n therefore_o they_o that_o have_v their_o ordination_n from_o bishop_n have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succession_n from_o antichrist_n mr._n cranf_n minor_n dr._n chamb._n if_o from_o rome_n then_o from_o antichrist_n but_o from_o rome_n therefore_o from_o antichrist_n mr._n cranf_n deny_v the_o consequence_n dr._n chamb._n reply_v if_o from_o rome_n since_o antichrist_n be_v antichrist_n then_o if_o from_o rome_n then_o from_o antichrist_n but_o from_o rome_n since_o antichrist_n be_v antichrist_n therefore_o if_o from_o rome_n then_o from_o antichrist_n here_o mr._n cranf_n make_v a_o long_a digression_n concern_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o a_o church_n in_o româ—_n and_o say_v that_o 1_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n till_o our_o separation_n from_o it_o 2_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n be_v antichrist_n these_o thousand_o year_n 3_o a_o true_a church_n in_o rome_n till_o this_o day_n which_o when_o dr._n chamb._n read_v over_o there_o be_v exception_n take_v that_o he_o have_v not_o read_v as_o mr_n cranf_n speak_v for_o they_o affirm_v he_o say_v there_o may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n in_o rome_n till_o this_o day_n nempe_fw-la fidelium_fw-la so_o dr._n chamb._n form_v a_o syllogism_n against_o it_o ma._n that_o church_n which_o have_v not_o the_o true_a sign_n and_o seal_n of_o a_o true_a church_n be_v no_o true_a church_n mi._n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v not_o the_o true_a sign_n and_o seal_n of_o a_o true_a church_n con._n therefore_o it_o be_v no_o true_a church_n mr_n cranf_n say_v you_o will_v fain_o draw_v i_o to_o believe_v it_o but_o you_o shall_v not_o draw_v i_o to_o it_o with_o horse_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n though_o full_a of_o error_n as_o a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o true_a man_n though_o full_a of_o sore_n and_o ulcer_n and_o though_o the_o church_n be_v erroneous_a yet_o the_o ordination_n may_v be_v true_a as_o many_o other_o thing_n may_v be_v true_a which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v hold_v and_o that_o ordination_n be_v not_o antichristian_a till_o protestant_n separate_v from_o they_o dr._n chamb._n then_o say_v they_o separate_v from_o a_o true_a church_n and_o so_o the_o separation_n make_v it_o false_a mr._n cranf_n say_v they_o separate_v from_o they_o when_o they_o begin_v to_o be_v false_a dr._n chamb._n offer_v to_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o yet_o separate_v from_o they_o ma._n if_o you_o do_v separate_v then_o either_o you_o do_v separate_v from_o their_o doctrine_n or_o their_o power_n mi._n but_o you_o do_v separate_v from_o neither_o con._n therefore_o you_o do_v not_o separate_v the_o complaint_n be_v that_o now_o the_o question_n be_v lose_v and_o they_o be_v go_v to_o new_a question_n so_o dr._n chamb._n return_v to_o the_o question_n thus_o ma._n if_o no_o other_o public_a ordination_n but_o from_o the_o pope_n since_o separation_n then_o from_o antichrist_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n mi._n but_o no_o ordination_n but_o from_o the_o pope_n con._n therefore_o from_o antichrist_n mr._n cranf_n say_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n still_o but_o because_o mr._n cranf_n in_o his_o discourse_n do_v either_o let_v fall_v sometime_o what_o he_o will_v not_o own_v or_o dr._n chamb._n be_v suppose_v to_o mistake_v what_o mr._n cranf_n speak_v it_o be_v desire_v that_o mr._n cranf_n will_v write_v down_o his_o own_o word_n and_o position_n which_o he_o do_v as_o follow_v 1_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v once_o a_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n 2_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n there_o happen_v many_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n 3_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n sometime_o a_o true_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n usurp_v