Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	militant_a	saint_n	triumphant_a	2,884	5	10.8885	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19952	The reply of the most illustrious Cardinall of Perron, to the ansvveare of the most excellent King of Great Britaine the first tome. Translated into English.; Réplique à la response du sérénissime roy de la Grand Bretagne. Vol. 1. English	Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618.; Cary, Elizabeth, Lady, 1585 or 6-1639.; Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. Lettre de Mgr le Cal Du Perron, envoyée au sieur Casaubon en Angleterre. English.; Casaubon, Isaac, 1559-1614. Ad epistolam illustr. et reverendiss. Cardinalis Peronii, responsio. English. Selections.	1630 (1630)	STC 6385; ESTC S107359	685,466	494

as it hath pleased God whollie to accept may be hastned by the prayers and sacrifices of the Church and necessarie with necessitie of precept and to exercise christian charitie and pietie both to the Church that offers them and to the ministers and Pastors by whom she offers them The prayer of the Saintes they haue holden as necessarie to the bodie of the Church and to the ministers by whō they are made with necessitie of precept to exercise the commerce betweene the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant and to particular persons out of the offices of the Church and in their priuate deuotions not neeessary with necessitie of act but only profitable that they may the more easilie obtaine pardon for their sinnes by the concourse of their prayers who are alreadie in the per fect and assured possession of the grace of God but necessary to them and all others with nessitie of approbation that is to saie they are obliged not to contradict them and not to condemne the custome and doctrine of the Church in that article and not to separate themselues from her vpon this occasion vnder paine of falling into Anathema and to be holden for heretickes All which things I will not now stand to proue least I make a Booke of a letter but I doe oblige myselfe to iustifie them when soeuer you shall desire it and to make it appeare both by the vnanimous consent of the Fathers that haue flourished in the time of the first fowre councel's and by the formes which remaine to vs in their writings of the ancient Church Seruice that all the Catholicke Church of their times hath vninersallie and vniformely beleeued holden and practised them throughout all the regions and prouinces of the earth I oblige myself I saie to make it appeare to you that she hath holden these fower thinges in the same sence and in the same forme and for the same end as our Lyturgies are and not as obseruations that then sprung vp but as things that the same Fathers testified to haue bene beleeued and practised from all antiquitie and to be deriued to them by an vninterrupted continuance from the tradition or approbation of the Apostles Soe as they cannot renounce the Communion of our Church vnder pretence of anie of these fowre points without renoūcing the Communion of the ancient catholick Church and consequently the inheritance of saluation and that by authors and testimonies all able to abide the touch as you know I am curious to make vse of noe other and with cleare and ingenuous answeres to all obiections collected out of the Fathers of the same ages or of ages before them A thing that will be the more easie for me because the proofes that wee will avouch out of the Fathers are proofes which containe in expresse termes the affirmatiue of what wee saie whereas our aduersaries cannot finde one only passage which containes in expresse terme the negatiue but only in termes from whence they pretend to inferr it by consequence and which at a iust tribunall would not merit so much as to be heard For who knowes not that it is too great an iniustice to alleadge consequences from passages and euen those euill interpreted and misvnderstood and in whose illation there is alwaies some paralogisme hidd against the expresse wordes and the liuely and actuall practise of the same fathers from whom they are collected and that may be good to take the Fathers for Aduersaries and to accuse them for want of Sence or memorie but not to take them for Iudges and to submitt themselues to the obseruation of what they haue beleeued and practised To this I will also adde whensoeuer you shall desire it the present Conformitie of all the other Patriarchall Churches in these fowre cases with the Roman and of all those which haue remained euen to this daie vnder their iurisdiction to witt those that are vnder the Patriarchall iurisdiction of the Patriarck of Constantinople as the Grecians Russians Muscouites and Asians of Asia-minor separate from vs neere eight hundred yeares Of those that are vnde the Greeke Patriarch of Antioch as the Syrians Mesopotamians and others yet more Easterne nations for those that obey the Syrian Patriarch as the Maronites perseuer in the Communion of the Roman Church of those that relye vpon the Egiptian Patriarch of Alexandria as the Egiptians whom they call Cophtites and the Ethiopians which haue bene diuided both from vs and from the greekes more then eleuen hundred yeares euen from the time of one of the fowre first Councells to witt of the Councell of Chalcedon For all these hold these fower pointes yea with more iealousie if it be possible then the latine Churches and particularlie the article of the Sacrament where of they doe not only beleeue transubstantiation which the greekes at this daie call in the very self same sence and phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but also exercise the adoration with externall gesture more full of humilitie then ours A manifest proof that these fowre pointes were vniformely holden and obserued by the ancient Cahtholicke Church since all the partes whereinto the ancient Catholicke Church is dismēbred doe retaine them vniformly to this daie notwithstanding soe manie distances separations and diuisions through all the regions of the Earth These are in generall the causes that haue moued me to vse that exception in my letter that you obiect to me in yours whereof if the Excellent King of great Brittaine had as well leasure to heare the particularities as he hath capacitie to comprehend them I assure myselfe he would not thinke it strange that I should desire in him the title of Catholique but he would desire it himsefe and put himsefe in state to obtaine it and to cause it to be obtained by those that are depriued of it that is to saie he would add yet to is other Crownes that of making himsefe a mediator of the peace of the Church which would be to him a more triumphant glorie then that of all the Alexanders and of all the Caesars and which would gaine to his Isle noe lesse an honor in hauing bredd him thē to haue bredd great Constantine the first deliuerer and pacifier of the christian Church I praie god that he will one daie Crowne all the other graces wherewith he hath indowed him with that and heare to this effect the prayers of his late Queene Mother whose teares like those of S. Augustins Mother doe not onlie intercede for him in heauen but her blood also And likewise keepe you Sr. in his safe and holie protection From Paris 15. Iulij 1611. AN ADMONITION TO THE READER This letter to Mons. Casaubon occasiond the whole discourse ensuing For the letter being shewed to his most excellent maiesty our Souuerain Lord king Iames of glorious memory it pleased him not only to read it but to take paines to answer it as he thought most conuenient To which answer of his maiesty the Cardinall replieth

with that modesty and submission which is due to the person and worth of so high and mighty a Monarch and with that learning and solidyty that might be expected from so great a maister of truth as that most eminent Cardinall was in behalf of so glorious a cause as is the doctrine of the catholique Church THE L. CARDIN PERRONS REPLIE TO HIS MAIESTIES ANSWER TO THE LETTER WRITTEN TO MONS CASAVBON THE FIRST OBSERVATION Reduced into an abridgement by the Kinge THE name of Catholicke doth not simplie designe Faith but also Communion with the Catholicke Church for this Cause the Fathers would not suffer that those should bee Called Catholickes which had separated themselues from the communion of the Church though they retained the Faith thereof For there is one only Catholicke Church out of the which Faith and Sacramentes may be had but not Saluation To this end there are manie places alleaged out of S. AVGTSTIN OF THE VSE OF THE WORD CATHOLIQVE THE ANSVVERE OF THE KINGE CHAPITRE I. TO beleeue the Catholicko Church and to beleeue the Communion of Saintes are put distinctly as diuers thinges in the Creede and it seemes the first was ptincipallie inserted to discerne the Iewish Synagogue from the Christian Church which ought not to be as that was inclosed within the lymittes of one only nation but to be spread in length and breadth through all the regions of the world And therefore the reason is not manifest enough why in the beginning of this obseruation it is said that the title of Catholicke designeth Communion These two thinges are very neere one an other but different notwithstandinge as wee haue shewed THE REPLIE WHEN the Philosopher FAVORINVS disputed against the Emperor ADRIAN and that his hearers were amazed and reproached it to him that he suffered the Emperor to confute him and yielded to him he answered them should not I yield to a man tha commaundes twentie legions Soe if there were noe question in this worke but of humane philosophie secular learninge it should be easie for me to stop my selfe at FAVORINVS boundes and to abstaine to contest with his maiestie or to resist him But since heere wee treate of his interest who hath not legions of men but of Angells and which hath for his title THE KINGE OF KINGES AND LORD OF LORDES and from whom this excellent Kinge himselfe makes profession to holde in Fee his life and Crownes that is to saie the cause of IESVS CHRIST and of his Kingdome which is the Church I will promise myselfe from his Maiesties bountie that he will not mislike where it shall be needefull that I resist and contradict him with all the respectiue libertie that the lawes of disputation yield me Then for the argument of the Creede I will saie after I haue kist my weapones three thinges for my defence FIRST that it is vncertaine whither the cause of the Communion of Saintes be an article aparte or an explication of the precedinge cause and a declaration that the Catholicke Church consistes not in the simple number of the faithfull euery one considered a parte but in the ioinct Communion of all the bodie of the faithfull in such sorte as both clauses make but one article as it seemeth sainct IEROM RVFFINVS and Sainct AVGVSTINE who haue omitted the latter haue esteemed it The SECOND that it is vncertaine whether it signifie the Communion that the faithfull liuinge haue one with an other or the Commerce that the Saintes of the triumphant Church doe exercise with the Saintes of the militant Church by the prayers that the Saints of the triumphant offer for the Saints of the militant and the commemoration that the saints of the militant make of the saints of the triumphant which is that that wee in our Liturgie call to communicate with the memory of the Saintes And the THIRD that whatsoeuer it signifie it is most certaine that the word CATHOLICKE was not added to that of the Church to distinguish the Christian Church from the Iewish Synagogue which had neuer borne the name of Church in qualitie of a title of a Religion when the creed was Composed and by consequence did not oblige the Christian Church to take the Epithete of Catholicke to bee discerned from that from which in all cases she had bene suffieientlie distinguished by the title of Christian but it was added to discerne the true Church from hereticall and schismaticall Societies which vsurpe equiuocally and by false markes the name of Church for that our Lord was the first that affected and consecrated the word ECCLESIA which we vsually translate in Englishe Church to signifie a societie of Religion whereas before neither it nor the Hebrewe word that answeres to it had anie other vse but that which prophane authors giue it which is to signifie Assemblies conuocations Generall Estates as when DEMOSTHENES said to ESCHINES thou wert dumbe to the assemblies where the greeke word is Ecclesijs the conuocations or general meetings And as when Aristotle called the conuocations of Creete ecclesias And as when the Scholiast of HOMER said Iupiter gathered together Ecclesias the Assemblies of the Gods It appeares first by the testimonie of MOSES who forbids bastardes to enter into the Church of Israell And of DAVID who singes I hate the Church of the malignant And of S. STEPHEN who said MOSES was in the Church in the solitarie place that is to saie with the multitude of the people in the desert It appeares secondlie by the testimonie of S. IEROM and of S. CYRILLVS who interpretinge this verse of ESAY Thou shalt bee called by a new name that the mouth of our Lord shall pronounce Doe affirme that this new name must be the name of Church It shall noe more saith S. IEROM be called Ierusalem and Sion but it shall receiue a new name that the Lord shall impose vpon it sayinge to the Apostle PETER thou art PETER and vpon this PETRA or rock I will build my Church And S. CYRILL It shall be noe more called Synagogue but the Church of the liuinge God And finallie it appeares by the verie testimonie of our aduersaries that not only in all the textes of the old Testament where the Greeke translation of the Seuentie vse the word Ecclesia but also in all those of the new where that word hath relation to anie other multitude beside the Christian Church they expresse it by Congregation or Assemblies And if since the cōminge of IESVS CHRIST and the edition of the creede the Fathers haue sometymes called the Synagogue by the name of Ecclesia or Church it hath bene by anticipation to shew the successiue vnitie of the one and other societie but not that the Iewish Church while it lasted hath euer vndertaken to attribute to herselfe the title of a Church in the qualitie of a title of Religion Neither consequently when the creede was composed was there neede of an

without obliging him-selfe to the doctrine whereof it makes profession And therefore saint EPIPHAN interpretes iudicially these gates of hell that shall not preuaile against the Church to be heresies the gates of hell said he are heresies and heresieMasters To the second which is that saint PAVL writes you are arriued to heauenly Ierusalem to the Church of the first-borne which are inrolled in heauen Wee answere he speaketh of the Church triumphant to which he writes that we are arriued in the same sorte as he writes our conuerfation is in heauen that is to saie in hope as when a shipp hath cast his ankor on land which is saith saint AVGVSTINE the symbole of hope it is said to be arriued to land though it be yet in the sea and let vs add that the word first-borne signifies there euen by Caluins owne confession the holy Fathers and 〈◊〉 of the old testament Or if saint PAVL speake there of the Church militant and that by the first-borne he intends the predestinate we 〈◊〉 he calls it the Church of the first-borne not because it containes only the elect but because the elect are no where els I meane the elect inuested in the temporall grace of theire election as we call the parliament of Paris the Court of the Peeres not because it containes none but Peeres but because there is noe place els wherein the Peeres are inuested in theire qualitie of Peeres To the third which is taken from this article of the Creede I beleeue in the Catholicke Church we saie it sufficeth that faith be either of inuisible things or of things apprehended vnder inuisible conditions as those are vnder which wee consider the Church when we beleeue her to be the spouse of Christ the temple of God the mansion of the holy Ghost the gate of heauen the treasuresse of spirituall graces Otherwise to beleeue in Christ had not bene an article of faith while our lord was in this world And neuerthelesse he saith Who beleeues not in the sonne is alreadie iudged And when the Councell of Constantinople puts this confession of Faith amongst the articles of the Creede of the Church I beleeue one baptisme in remission of sinnes they must conclude baptisme to be inuisible against the vniuersall condition of Sacraments which is to be visible signes of inuisible graces To the fourth obiection to witt that saint AVGVSTINF writeth that only predestinate Catholiques are true partes of the Church and true members of the bodie of Christ and distinguisheth betweene them which are in the howse and them which are of the howse and betweene the people knowne in the eyes of God and knowne in the eyes of man we haue three solutions The first solution is that saint AVGVSTINE intended not that only Catholiques predestinate were true partes of the Church according to the formall beinge of the Church which is common to all that are called but according to the finall being of the Church that is to the end and in the fruits for which the Church is instituted I meane saint AVGVSTINE did not intend in those places to define the Church formally and by what she is in this world but finally and by what she shall be in the other Euen as he that saith only good Citizens are true partes of a common wealth doth not define a common wealth formally and by what it is in it selfe but finally and by what it is in the intention of the law-maker And he that saith a true haruest is only the corne that is gathered from the strawe and not the strawe wherewth it is mingled defines not a haruest formally and by what it is in the feild or in the barne but finally and by what it will be in the garner We confesse saith saint AVGVST that whicked men are together with the good in the Catholick Church but as Corne and strawe And againe Wicked men may be with vs in the barne but they cannot be with vs in the garner For that sainct AVGVST doth not esteeme that the formall and precise condition that constitutes men in the Church is that of predestination internall to God and eternall but that of externall and temporall vocation he shewes it when he saith vpon saint IOHN None can enter by the gates that is by Christ to life eternall which is in vision if by the same gate that is to saie by the same Christ he be not first entred into his Church which is his sheepefolde to the temporall life which is in faith And in the place already alleadged vpon the psalmes Our predestination is made not in vs but in God the other three things are wrought in vs vocation iustification and glorification And in his writings against Faustus Men can be inserted into noe name of Religion whether true or false but they must be tied by the common participation of some signes or visible Sacraments Contrarywise the verie same saint AVGVST which distinguisheth betweene those in the howse and those of the howse teacheth vs that all Catholickes both predestinate and reprobate are in the howse that is to saie in the Church Those saith he we cannot denie but that they are likewise in the howse and then that the formall condition which 〈◊〉 the Church is vocation and not predestination but that there are none but the predestinate Catholickes which are of the howse that is to 〈◊〉 that are finall peeces inalienable and inseparable from the howse or to speake in termes of lawe that are goodes that the father of the familie vouchsafes to put into the Inuentory of his howse the other being there but for a tyme and as by waie of loane and not to dwell there 〈◊〉 euer For when the Church shall passe from earth to heauen and from the state of mortalitie to immortalitie only predestinate Catholickes shall remaine there and not the others The Church saith he is the 〈◊〉 the seruant is the Sinner now many sinners enter into the Church and therefore our Lord did not saie the Seruant enters not into the howse but he dwelles not for euer in the howse And againe None can blott from heauen the constitution of God nor can anie blott from the earth the Church of God c. She containes good and euill but she looseth none on earth but the euill and admitts none into heauen but the good The second solution is that this distinction of partes of the Church true and not true and of vessells which are in the howse and not of the howse and of people knowne in the eyes of God and knowne in the eyes of men is not a distinction of Religion but a simple distinction of manners which puts difference betweene the one and the other in regarde of the formall being of the Church and of the externall meanes of vocation which are the profession of the true faith the sincere administration of the Sacramentes and the adherence to lawfull

cast out of his Sea gaue vp the mantle that he had to the Emperors and retired himself to a place where the Empresse tooke him into her protection And then the Pope infauour of the Emperor ordained Menas Bishop in his steede consecrating him with his owne hand And Victor of Tunes of the same time with Liberatus Agapet Archbishop of Rome came to Constantinople and deposed Anthymus Bishop of Constantinople vsurper of the Church and enemie to the Councell of Chalcedon and excommunicated the Empresse and made Menas Bishop of the Church of Constantinople An admirable effect of the power of S. PETERS Successor in the time that the Church of Constantinople was most flourishing and triumphant the Church of Rome contrariwise most abated afflicted when Constantinople was the Seate of the Empire the mansion of Iustinian the Emperor conquering and victorious and that Rome on the other side was noe more a cittie but a tombe and carkasse of a cittie a seruant and slaue of the Gothes a barbarous and Arrian people a poore Pope that the tyrannie of Theodat king of the Gothes who otherwise threatned him to roote out the Roman Church had forced to transport himself into the East to solicite the Emperor Iustinian to withdrawe his armes out of Italie and so poore as he was faine to sell the sacred Vessells of his Church to performe his voyage beeing in Constantinople a stranger and without support yea euill receiued and entertained by the Emperor neuerthelesse deposeth and casts out of his Sea Anthymus Patriarke of Constantinople powerfull in meanes and fauour about the Emperor and whom the Emperor and the Empresse had exalted from the Bishopricke of Trebizond to the Patriarkship of Constantinople and pardons the Bishops of the East who had communicated with him and excommunicates the Empresse who obstinately defended him and established Menas in his place And Caluin will haue it that Menas who was Agapets creature preceded Agapet in the Councell of Constantinople in whose time Agapet was already dead and wherein there is neuer mention made of him but with this title of Agapet of holy memory What an Argus is he in antiquitie But at the least will Caluin replie the Bishops of Italie that assisted with Menas at the Councell of Constantinople after the death of Agapet did not preside there It is true But what will this replie serue him for but to increase his shame for these Bishops were noe more the Popes deputies when the Councell was holden and had noe commission to be there but were Bishops Priests and Deacons which were long before come out of Italie for other businesses and whose legation was finisht both by the arriuall and by the death of Agapet and who assisted not at the Synod which was noe generall Councell but a simple councell of the Patriarkship of Constantinople and of some strange Bishops resident at Constantinople but for honor sake and by vertue of the Emperors commaundement as exlegates and not as Legates Neither must he hope to escape by this excuse that he pretended to speake of Uigilius and not of Agapet for Vigilius was neither Pope nor present at Constantinople when the councell of Constantinople holden vnder Menas was celebrated Lesse yet can Caluin saue himselfe by sayinge that his intention was to speake of the councell holden vnder Eutychius for Uigilius who was then Pope was neither present by himselfe nor by his Legates and consequently had not occasion to hold the second place but confirmed it by writing Vigilius saith Euagrius consented by letters with the Councell And Photius Vigilius approued by writing the faith of the Fathers And that he refused to assist there it was not as Nicephorus a Schismaticall author and later by manie ages pretends because hee disdayned to receiue the Bishop of Constantinople into one Seate with him that is to saie that he would haue sate in a seate more exalted For how should that haue bene put in dispute since the same Nicephorus saith it had bene practised twentie eight yeares before by Pope Iohn who had sate within Constantinople in a throne exalted aboue Epiphanius Patriarke of the place and that adds he not to abandon the prerogatiue of the Sea Apostolicke But forasmuch as he sawe the Emperor resolute to cause the three chapters to be condemned so were called certaine writinges of Theodorus of Mopsuestia of Ibas and of Theodoret which had bene read in the councell of Chalcedon and feared that if this condemnation should be made the Bishops of the Prouinces of the West not being present it might begett a schisme betweene those of the West and those of the East For those of the West held that to condemne those three chapters it was to giue aduantage to the Entychians and to make a breach in the Councell of Chalcedon who had receiued into their communion Ibas and Theodoret authors of those writinges and defendor of Theodorus of Mopsuestia and those of the East contrarywise held that to maintaine them was to giue aduantage to the Nestorians and to oppose the Councell of Ephesus which had condemned the doctrine therein contained and denied that to censure them was to doe wronge to the Councell of Chalcedon who had indeede receiued Theodoret and Ibas into their communion but after they had made them detest the doctrine of Nestorius For this occasion though Pope Uigilius in his particuler condemned these three chapters yet he would not assist at a Councell wherein they should goe about to condemne them publicklie vnlesse it had bene a generall Councell and wherein the Bishops of the West had bene present aswell as those of the East And he admitted not the reason alleadged by the Legates of the Councell that in the other generall Councells there had bene fewe Bishops of the West forasmuch as those fewe Bishops of the West which had bene in other generall Councells went thither after Councells holden vpon the same matter in the West whose resolution they bearing with them they carried the voice of all the westerne Church into the East To this feare there concurred also that that Vigilius had to renew the opinion that was held of him during his Antipapacie I saie during his Antipapacie because in the beginning Uigilius was intruded into the Papacie by the priuate sute of the Empresse who was an Eutychian his predecessor Siluerius a true and lawfull Pope still liuing with this simoniacall and hereticall couenant not onely to condemne the three chapters but to approue the faith of Anthymus which he did and therefore sometymes as false Pope and sometymes as an abettor of heretickes he was excommunicated by the true Pope Siluerius and by the Bishops that adhered to him and amongst others by the Prelates of Africa For those that suspect that Liberatus the most exact monument that we haue of antiquity hath bene depraued in the fall of Uigilius are mistaken seeing Victor