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A42764
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A late dialogue betwixt a civilian and a divine concerning the present condition of the Church of England in which, among other particulars, these following are especially spoken of ...
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Gillespie, George, 1613-1648.
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1644
(1644)
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Wing G753; ESTC R15751
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28,350
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44
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worship but I deny that this was done judicially or by the sentence of a Court for as M. Selden observeth the very letter of the law not any judiciall sentence did exclude the unclean from the Temple Divine I answer men were excluded from the Temple and worship either for ceremoniall or morall uncleanes the former is particularly determined in the law the latter not so but left as a necessary consequence from the law for if God would have men kept back for ceremonial uncleanes it may be for touching though casually and unwillingly a vessell a seat a cloth a body or somewhat else that was unclean surely it was much more his will that such as are morally unclean by a prophane or scandalous life should not be admitted However it was necessary that matters of fact should bee examined by a Court whether they did fall within the verge of the law or not But what will you say if I give you scripture for excommunication by a judiciall sentence Ezra 10.8 we read of a mixed meeting of the Princes Elders Priests and Levites where it was decreed that whosoever would not come to Ierusalem within 3. dayes should be punished with the forfeiture of all his substance and himselfe separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away A double punishment Civil and Ecclesiastical forfeiture and excommunication according as that extraordinary occasion made a conjuncture and concurrence of the Civill and the Ecclesiasticall Sanedrim at that time Lyra Hugo Cardinalis Cajetan and of ours Diodati and Lavater all upon the place beside others who cite the place occasionally do agree that the separation from the congregation {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} as the 70. read it it is Kahal in the Hebrew is meant of excommunication from the Temple and worship even as that casting out mentioned Isa 66.5 So in the new Testament this iniquity was established by a law that whosoever should confesse that Jesus was the Christ should be cast out of the Synagogue 10.9.22 and 12.42 and 16.2 Civilian But there is not in all the law of Moses any syllable of such an excommunication as you speak of except you take that to be it which is often repeated in the law that soule shall be cut off from among his people Now that may be expounded either of capitall punishment and cutting off by the hand of the Magistrate or as Ainsworth and M. Selden following the most part of the Hebrewes expound it of cutting off by the hand of God that is thâ—â— God would not suffer such a one to live out halfe his dayes but take him away by an untimous deaâ—h Divine I know that both Jewish and Christian Interpreters have much differed among themselves in expounding that commination of the Law But I shall only offer my reasons against these two Glosses which you have mentioned and then tell you what I conceive to be the true meaning To expound all those places of the Magistrates cutting off men by death were to make the Laws of God more bloody then Draco's I appeal to your self doe you thinke it at all credible that God would have men put to death for eating of the fat or the blood though by chance for making a perfume like the Preistly perfume to smell for touching a dead body or a grave or a Tent wherein a man had died or for touching something which he that was uncleane had touched and not being sprinkled thereafter with the water of seperation yet for these and the like ceremomoniall defilements and tresspasses men were to be cut off from the Congregation of Israel Now for that other Exposition of cutting off by the hand of God that which they take for the ground and foundation of it that is that the cutting off mentioned in the Law is understood only of private sinnes known to God only and which could not be proved by witnesses this I say if it could be proved would indeed make good their Interpretation but the truth is it is a meere conjecture for which they have no warrant in the Word Nay the Word is against it for the end of that cutting off wâ—s that the Children of Israel might feare to doe that which they sâ—â— so sore punished Levit. 17 4.5 Which use they could not make of a divine judgement inflicted for a private sinne I know they doe further object from Levit. 17.10 20.5.6 that the cutting off was a work of God not of men But to that I say it was not so except in extraordinary cases when men who should have cut off the wicked did it not and this appears plainly from Levit. 20.4 5. And if the people of the land hide their eyes from the man when he giveth of his seed unto Molech and kill him not Then marke then and in that case I will set my face against that man and against his family and will cut him off Wherefore I conclude that the cutting off in the Law and especially in the Ceremoniall Law can be nothing else but Excommunication from the Church and Communion in the holy things Which as it is most received among our Expositors so the Apostle 1 Cor. 5. doth give us a hint of it for as it is plaine from vers 6 7 8. that he alludes to the history of the Passover Exod. 12. so when he saith vers. 13. Put away from among your selves that wicked person he hath respect to Exo. 12.19 Where it it is said Whosoever eateth that which is leavened even that soul shall be cut off from the Congregation of Israel All this I conclude with a Passage of Mr. Williams his bloody Tenent cap. 121. where though he doth not acknowledg a spirituall excommunication in the Jewish Church yet he acknowledgeth such a coercive power in cutting off as hath for the antitype and paralell of it Excommunication in the Ghristian Church Out of that blessed temporall estate saith he to be cast or carried captive was their Excommunication or casting out of Gods sight 2 Kings 17.23 Therefore was the Blasphâ—â—â—â— the false Prophet the Idolater to be cast out or cut off â—â—â—m this holy land which punishment cannot be parrallelld by the punishment of any State or Kingdome in the world but only by the excommunicating or out-casting of person or Church from the fellowship of the Saints and Churches of Christ Iesus in the Gospel For this spirituall cutting off he citeth 1. Cor. 5. Gal. 5. Behold he who hath pleaded most for the liberty of conscience is forced to acknowledge the censure of Excommunication Civilian But can you show any warrant froâ— the New Testament for Church Censures and Excommunication as an Institution and Ordinance of Christ I know your Magna Charta which you pretend to is Mat. 18.17 Tell the Church and if he heare not the Church let him be unto thee as an Heathen man a Publican But the sence of that place I take to be that which
was given by Erastus and Bilson that is That in the case of private and civill injuries the injured party should first of all seek right and reparation of the wrong of the injuring party which if it take not effect then to doe it before witnesses and if that also prevaile not then to tell the Church that is the Sanedrim of the Jewes which was a civill Judicature and if the man that hath done wrong will not stand to the sentence of the Sanedrim that then one should deale with him as with an Heathen or a Publican that is complain of him to the Roman Emperor or his Deputies Mr. Prynne in his late Booke called Independency examined pag. 10. following Master Seldens judgement holdeth that by the Church Matth. 18.17 is not meant any Ecclesiasticall Judicatory but the Civill Court or Sanedrim of the Jewes Even as Ib. pag. 11. he holdeth the Assembly of the Apostles Elders and Brethren Act. 15. to be an undeniable Scripture Authority for Parliaments as well as for Synods to come together upon all like occasions And as for these words let him be thee as an Heathen and a Publicane he understandeth the meaning to be that not the Church but the party offended is to avoid his company taking the same to be meant 2 Thes. 3.14 a place which I have also heard alledged for Church Dicipline and Censures Divine Though Mr. Prynne be a man much esteemed by me both for his sufferings and much good service done by him in the Church yet I must say he wrongs both the Truth and himself in taking upon him to goe against the whole current of Interpreters antient and moderne without any evidence of reason and he must remember that in these particulars hee doth not so much oppose the Independents as all the Reformed Churches while as he goeth about to throw out of their hands the chief Scriptures upon which they ground Church Discipline Now all the circumstances of the Text make against that Exposition and prove That it is not a Civill but a Spirituall Court which Christ there establisheth For 1. those words If thy Brother trespasse against thee are not ment of personall or civill injuries of which our Saviour Christ would not be Judge Luke 12.14 but as Augustine Tostatus and others doe rightly expound them they are to be understood of all manner of scandalls by which we trespasse against our Brother in as much as we trespasse against the law of Charity which commandeth us to edify one another and to promote the spirituall good one of another now when a Christian doth not only not edify but scandalize which is a deterioration yea so farre as lieth in him a destruction of his brothers soule this is undeniably a great trespasse against his brother which kind of trespasse as the King and head of the Church Jesus Christ whose Kingdom is not of this World was to take speciall notice of so the coherence and dependâ—nce of the Text giveth further evidence that this and no other kinde of trespasses is here intended there being so much spoken of scandalls in the preceeding passages of that Chapter 2. As the case supposed so the end proposed is spirituall that is that the offended brother should reprove the offanding brother and tell him his fault and that for the good of his soul If he shall heare thee thou hast gained thy brother that is thou hast rescued his soule by Repentance from sinne and so from the wrath of God wherein Christ had respect to that Law Lev. 19.17 Thou shalt not hate thy Brother in thy heart thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour and not suffer sinne upon him 3. The persons judging are not civill but Ecclesiasticall Tell it unto the Church now in all the New Testament the name of the Church is not given to any Civill Magistrate Nay Christ himself doth immediately give us notice that by the Church there he means the Ministers and Rulers of the Church for thus he applyeth it unto the Apostles and their successors Whatsoever ye shall binde c. and if two of you shall agree c. And here by the way I must tell you that if the Jewish Sanedrim were here meanâ— as it is not you could not thence conclude that a civill Court is meant for there was an Ecclesiastical Sanedrim distinct from the civill as beside many other great Authors is proved by Constantinus l' Emp. Annot. in Câ—â— Middoth p. 188. and de Rep. Iud. p. 389. Which Ecclesiasticall Sanedrim were the rather to be understood in this Text because the other Sanedrim was destroyed by Herod 4. The way and manner of proceeding is also Ecclesiasticall not civill when Church Governours meet about those things it must be with Prayer vers. 19. and it must be in the Name of Christ vers. 20. which places though they well agree to all holy Assemblies and meetings for Worship yet the context sheweth that they are principally intended concerning Assemblies for Discipline and Church censures and so Tostatus Hugo Cardinalis with our own Divines doe expound the Text 5. The censure is spirituall as appeareth both by the â—llusion to the Jewish Excommunication of which I have spoken before in those words let him be unto thee as a Heathen or a Publican and by the phrase of binding the soule or retaining of sinnes vers. 18. which power our Lord elsewhere giveth to his Apostles Mat. 16.19 Io. 20.23 formes of speech which no where the Scripture useth of any civill power only it is to be observed that in these two places last cited the Apostles get power to binde and loose by their Doctrine and Preaching but here Mat. 18. to binde and loose by Discipline as appeareth by the use to be made of witnesses vers. 16. that is potestas clavium doctrinalis this potestas clavium disciplinalis That is misticall this politicall And whereas it is objected that the Text saith not let him be to the Church but let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican I answer it is supposed that he must be such in the judgement of the Church before he be such to me This Pareus upon the place proveth from the words that follow Whatsoever ye shall bind c. therefore saith he the Church is first to bind him that is Excommunicate him and then he is to be to me as an Heathen and a Publican Beside if it were not so horrible confusion should follow while as any private man may Excommunicate and cast off whomsoever he judgeth to be disobedient to the Church though peradventure he hath no just cause to judge so 6. It was very farre from the minde of Jesus Christ that his Disciples should for private injuries prosecute one another before the Roman Emperour or his Deputie This being so much blamed by the Apostle Paul 1 Cor. 6.1 Dare any of you having a matter against another got to law before the unjust vers. 6 7. Brother goâ—th to law