be pronounced by a Bishop or by a Pastor except a Consistorie of that Congregation shall first trauaile in examining the cause and then determine and agree what iudgement ought to passe vpon the matter then also propound it before the whole multitude that it may bee confirmed by their consent and last of all the Bishop Pastor or Minister to denouÌ„câ— it For this is the discipline that our Brethren would drawe out hereon But who may not see that this is to drawe this example cleane contrarie If they would directly gather aught herevpon they should gather that in manifest facts and crimes the Bishop or Pastor though in his absence may iudge determine pronounce the sentence of excommunication and by the authoritie of our Lord Iesus Christ committed vnto him may command the whole multitude Church or Congregation or anie Consistorie of them if they haue anie to gather theâ—selues together with his spirit and charge them in the name of our Lorde Iesus Christ that they fulfill obey and execute his sentence in deliuering such an excommunicated person â—0 Sathan that is exclude him from the fellowship and communion of the faithfull by separating themselues from his company him from theirs but this would cleane dash all the imagined authoritie of their gouerning Segnorie if they should become such executioners onelie vnto the sentence of the Bishop or Pastor and that in his absence also he being the iudge and determiner of the matter But what is this anie more than al the residue for the proofe of any such Ecclesiastical Elders in the Church of Corinth as were Gouernours onely and not Teachers Of the which point so much vrged and sought for we haue hetherto séene not one testimonie nor example But our Br. will now and God before go to higher more important proues heereof The argument of the 12 Booke THE 12. Booke proceedeth further to our learned Brethr. proues of their third Tetrarches whome they call Gouernours Whether their institution be grounded on Christe whereunto they alleadg as their Capitall place the wordes of Christ Matth. 18. ver 17. Tell the Church Whether Christ in the name of Church meant simplie a Congregation of the faithful people or a Senate of gouerning Elders And namelie whether he alluded to the Iewes Sanedrim or Synaedrion How the auncient Fathers haue expounded those wordes The expositions of the Protestant writers especially Caluins with the examinatioÌ„ of Caluines reasons laboring to proue that Christ in those words did renue and translate to his church the Iewes Sanedrim Whervpon is laide forth a full view of the Iewes estate out of Bertram Sigonius and Chytraeus for all their sorts of gouerning Elders Senates especially their Sanedrim After which followe these our Learned Brethrens proues of this translation and of the Elders mencioned in the new TestameÌ„t Moreouer for the authoritie of these Elders our Brethrens proceeding Matth. 18. to the 18. verse for the power of the spirituall keies Whether they appertaine to these gouerning Elders that are not Ministers of the word Brentius interpretation of those words how farre they reach and how farre the Ecclesiasticall Excommunication is requisite and of the ciuill excoÌ„munication of Caluines exposition of those words Aretitius concerning the parties that may excommunicate Wigandus and Matheus Index for the vse of the keyes in the Iewes Church The practise of excommunication in the Apostles times The practise in the primitiue church shewed foorth by Tertullian Eusebius c. The testimonies of the auncient Fathers Cyprian Ierome Augustine Chrisostome c. The iudgements of the Protestants namelie Kemnitius Melancthon Aretius Beza Snecanus chieflie Danaeus examining his proues reasons for the Presbyterie that may excommunicate Our Bre. conclusion concerning discipline The weighing againe at our Brethrens request of Saint Paules excommunicating the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. Of the Popish excommunication Of Excommunication for waightie or light offences Of the offences excommunicable Of our Brethrens answere to our obiection that this Presbitery is not mencioned in Saint Paules excommunicating Hymenaeus Alexander Philetus and the Corinthian How farre the Congregation may deale in this power Whether the Minister haue anie singular power heerein And lastlie of our Brethrens glimpses as they call them inueighing against the excommunications and iurisdiction in our Church NOw therefore to proue that there ought to bee a Consistorie of Elders in euerie Church for gouerning of the same it is manifest by the commandement of our Sauiour Christe touching him that despiseth priuate admonition If hee heare not them tell the Congregation if he heare not the Congregation let him be vnto thee as an Heathen and Publicane Verily I saie vnto you whatsoeuer you shall binde vpon earth shall be bound in heauen In which saying of our Sauiour Christe this word Congregation is not so largelie taken as in other places for the whole multitude but for the chosen assemblie of Elders OUR Brethren heere woulde proue their Consistorie of ruling Seniors out of Christs wordes Matth. 18. v. 17. which if they shall be able to proue God forbid but we shoulde bee as readie to yeeld And if they cannot proue it I woulde wish our Brethren to take good heede howe they waxe so bolde not to feare to writhe Christes owne wordes Which least wee also might mistake let vs set them downe more fullie than our Bre. doe Math. 18.15 But if thy brother shall sinne against thee goe and rebuke him betweene thee and him alone If he shall heare thee thou shalt winne thy brother But if he shall not heare thee take yet with thee one or two that in the mouth of two or three witnesses euerie word may stande But if he shall neglect them tell the Church but if so be also he shall neglect the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke or a Publicane Verely I say vnto you whatsoeuer ye shall binde vpon earth shal be bounde in heauen and whatsoeuer ye shall lose vpon earth shal be losed in heauen Againe I say vnto you if two of you shal consent vpon earth of all things whatsoeuer they shall aske it shal be done vnto them of my Father which is in heauen For where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the middest of them Héere first the grounde of the matter vpon which Christ spake these words that our Bretheren cite is priuate offence And therefore first he willeth as our Bretheren say well therein priuate admonition to be made Which if it shall be neglected then that the partie offended reprooue the offender before the witnesse of one or two besides themselues And then it followeth if he shall not heare them inferring that they shoulde also admonish him that then he shoulde tell the Church or Congregation Héere say our Brethren This worde Congregation is not so largely taken as in other places for the whole multitude but for the chosen
the separation be of more importance and daunger in respect of the more excellent obiect and subiect matter notwithstanding for the foresaid respects of hope and purpose it can be hardly iustified that we ought as hardly to be brought to Excommunicate any of our Brethren as we would haue a leg or an arme cut off from our body But héerein we yéeld vnto our Brethren that though this spirituall cutting off may easilier be done then the naturall in the foresaid respects notwithstanding we ought most hardly to be drawne vnto it and in some principall persons all things duly pondered not to cut them off at all Héereupon our Brethren conclude further Therefore the Popish tyrannie is detestable which thundreth out their pretended Excommunication for euery trifle yea such as are no sinnes as non payment of a little money where it is not deteyned of fraude non apparance where men otherwise haue necessary impediments as though it were but a small matter to put men out of the protection of Christ and to deliuer them to the tyrannie of Sathan and to depriue them of eternall saluation and to cast them into euerlasting damnation We detest the Popish detestable tyrannie and errours in their Excommunications so well as do the most zealous of our brethren Howbeit it is méete our zeale heerein be tempered with discretion I graunt there were great abuses among them in abusing so great a censure in so trifling matters notwithstanding their detestable tyrannie in Excommunication is not so much for procéeding so farre in their light causes as for their erring in the most waighty and for Excommunicating the true professors of the Gospell as the Pharisees did Christ and his Apostles while they themselues mainteine most grosse errors and playne heresies besides most horrible and notorious vices and so are altogether vnfit to Excommunicate any at all but rather to be themselues Excommunicated and not so much as knowing what this power is and how farre foorth man is the minister thereof they not only presume to Excommunicate those that offend not but whole Realmes and all Princes ouer whome they haue no charge nor iurisdiction But the best is that we haue no cause to feare the thundering of their Excommunications but rather to reioyce the more féeling how gratiously blessed be he therfore the Lord turneth still their curssings into blessings saue that we pitty so farre as standeth with Gods will this their mad spite and furious bâ—indnesse against the Gospell of Christ and the true professors of it Leasâ— therefore say they we should vse such vnreasonable rigor the spirit of God teacheth vs what manner of sinnes deserue Excommunication 1. Cor. 5.11 If any that is called a brother be an whoremonger or a couetâ—us person or an Idolater or a selanderer or a drâ—nkard or an extortioner with such a one see that yee eate not These offences therefore and such like are to be punished by Excommunication And also an obstinate Heretike that will not repent by admonition is worthy of this punishment Tit. 3.10 2. Tim. 2.16 1. Tim. 1.20 2. Iohn 10. and 11. Whether Saint Paules words must néedes in that place be vnderstood also for Excommunication though diuers do so take them might be called in question sith men might shunne such an offenders conuersation and not eate with him although the person were not yet so procéeded against as by the censure of Excommunication to make him vnderstaÌ„d how much they abhorted his wickednesse as we haue séene in Brentius Bucer and other Protestants iudgements But if these be the vices that our Brethren will alwayes haue to be prosecuted by Excommunication how many shall runne in daunger of these Seniors censure but prophane voyces of vanity passe ouer them is neither spoken nor meant of Excommunication 1. Tim. 1.20 The next place here cited 1. Tim. 1.20 is apparantly inough spoken of Excommunication of whome is Hymenaeus and Alexander The Apost'l his selfe Excomm Hymenaeus whome I haue deliuered vnto Sathan that they may learne not to blaspheme But here is no Seniory mentioned but only Saint Paules owne acte without the authority of any Consistory ioyned with him And as concerning the 2. Epistle of Iohn verse 10. and 11. 2. Iohn verâ— 10. and 11. If there come any vnto you and bring not this learning him receiue not to house neyther bid him godspeede for he that biddeth him godspeede is partaker of his ill deedes Neyther doth yet this sentence inferre any necessiâ—ie of Excommunication for although all those persons be Excommunicable and theyr sinnes deserue Excommunication and they may be sayde also to be before God or ipso facto Excommunicated yet are they not so accompted to the Church till the sentence be published agaynst them Howbeit The learned disc pag. 93. I will not stand with our Breethren vppon thys poynt And not onely say they these great and notorious sinnes deserue this correction but also lesser crimes encreased with contumacy and contempt of the Churches admonition Excom for the lesser crimes become worthy of the same castigation Therefore saith our Sauiour Christ of priuate offences Math. 18.15.16 c. Matth. 18.15.16 c. If thy brother sinne against thee goe and reprâ—ouâ— him betweene thee and him alone if he heere thee thou hast woon thy brother but if he heere thee not take with thee one or two that in the mouth of two or three witnesses euery word may stand if he disobey them then tell the Church if he disobey the Church then let him be to thee as an heathen or publicane The Apostle S. Paule likewise 2. Thess. 3.6 c. concerning those that were idle 2. Thess. 3.6 and walked disorderly will haue all gentle meanes vsed to bring them to labour and good order but if they would not be refourmed for any admonition he commaundeth them to be separated by excommunication Héere our brethren themselues come downe to lesser crimes yea euen to the priuate offences betwéene brother and brother Bridges Were they not afrayd Our Bre. confess of excommunication for lesser crimes least they should returne their owne words on their owne selues that it were popish and detestable tyrannie to arise to so high a censure for so meane offences as though it were but a small matter to put men out of the protection of Christ and to deliuer them vnto the tyrannie of Sathan to depriue them of eternall saluation and to cast them into euerlasting condemnation Did they not feare that this also might be accompted vnreasonable rigor no say they bicause these lesser crimes are encreased with contumacie and contempt of the Churches admonition and therefore become worthy of the same castigation and may contumacie then and contempt so increase the crime Contumacy contempt may aggrauate the crime And were not our brethren héere againe afraide of iumping with the Papists for
12. as diuerse giftes named And in the place alreadie citâ—â— and viewed 1. Corin. 12. ver 28. are also eight or nine reckoned of the which two or thrée were not before specified And Ephes. 4. verse 1â— Likewise cited before and perused are foure named or if they distinguish Pastor from Teacher and so make them fiue yet remaine there moe then as manye moe againe as our brethren haue héere reckoned besiâ—â—â— those that are not in these but in other places mentioned But wherto arâ— our brethren or should we néede to be so curious in the enumeration of these diuerse giftes or offices Dooth it any whitte further our brethrens forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement Or rather dooth it not in manye pointes confute it as by Gods grace we shall afterward sée Or doo they thinke that as there were so manye diuerse giftes or offices that they were all of them or all those persons that were of some one office of like measure in these giftes or of like authoritie in that office or that although they were diuerse giftes or officers one man might not haue diuerse of them all at one time without confusion But those pointes are debated afterward In the meane season all this hetherto prooueth nothing for the building of their platforme But it sheweth muche-how vnconsideratelie they heape vp these things with-out all order put in and put out making perpetuall or temporarie to serue for euer or to serue for a time what soeuer serueth their turne and humor and all to laye a modill of suche building as whereon all this new deuised Tetrarchie might be erected Which thing howe they do let vs sée now their procéeding further Of these offices some were temporall seruing onelye for the firste planting and foundation of the churche among the Heathen some are perpetuall perteining to the nourishinge and buildinge vp of the churche for euer Of the former sort were Apostles Prophets Euangelists men indued with the graces of powers of healings and of diuerse toongs Of the later kinde are Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons The Apostles were ordeined by God and sent foorth immediatlie by Christe hauing a generall commission to spread the Gospell ouer all the worlde which when they had accomplished that office ceased Suche were the twelue Apostles Paule and Barnabas c. And for this cause the Apostles appointed Matthias in the place of Iudas according to the scriptures permitting neuerthelesse the election vnto God by casting of Lottes that the number might be full for the firste planting of the Churche But when Herode had slaine Iames the brother of Iohn with the sworde they chose no man to succeed in his place bicause they had no warrante of Gods worde but the Holie-ghoste as hee sawe it was expedient for the churche afterwarde seperated Paule and Barnabas which liued at Antioche as Prophets and Teachers to the worke whereto he called them The Prophets were such as were indued with a singuler gifte of Reuelation in the interpretation of the scriptures and applying them to the present vse of the churche of whome some also did foreshewe of things to come as Agabus Also there were in euerie citie that prophecied to S. Paule as he passed by them that bonds and afflictions were prepared for him at Ierusalem This office being in the number of them that were ordeined for beautifying the Gospell in the first publishing thereof it ceased with that singuler and extraordinarie gift to be an ordinarie function of the church The Euangelists were such as were stirred vp of GOD to assist the Apostles in their ministerie of generall charge in planting the same by their preaching but inferior in dignitie to the Apostles Such was Phillip that first preached the Gospell in Samaria whither Peter and Iohn were sent by the Apostles to conferre vnto them by praier and imposition of hands the visible graces of the Holie-ghost which Philip did not The same Philip in Acts. 21. verse 8. is called an Euangelist So was Timothie 2. Timoth. 4.5 such was Titus Silas and manie other This office also with the order of the Apostles is expired and hath no place Likewise as we doo plainelie see that the gifts of healing of powers or miracles and of diuerse toongs haue long since ceased to be in the church so the offices of them which were grounded vpon these gifts must also cease and be determined Therefore the Papists doo vainelie reteine the name and office of exorcists when they cannot cast out diuels and extreame vnction when they cannot cure diseases to speake with strange toongs which they haue not by inspiration and that without anie interpretation which S. Paule expresselie forbiddeth It is requisite and draweth néerer to the purpose to know what was temporall in these giftes and what perpetuall what is ceased expired determined and hath no place and what remaineth for feare we should offend either waie vrging that to be temporall which is perpetuall or that to be perpetuall which was but temporall For the error of this breedeth most of all these troubles betweene vs. Wherein our bretheren doo bothe wayes greatlie mistake these giftes For first where they saye Some were temporall seruing onelie for the first planting and foundation of the churche among the Heathen and of this former sorte they reckon vp the Apostles Prophets Euangelists men indued with graces of powers of healings and so they enter into their particuler prooues of the ceasing of these functions I thinke they maye better be-thinke them-selues that all these giftes and offices which their selues haue héere named did not so cease but that they haue since the firste planting and foundation of the churche among the Heathen continued longer time among the Christians Yea some of them haue for a great part of the time continued euen till our owne times yet continue As the operation of great workes Or if they meane thereby myracles which were not ordinarie no not in that extraordinarie time and as the hypocrites had them also so might and had diuerse of the Papists and yet their cause neuer the better And the like may we say of the gift of speaking with toongs which haue not béene by studie before learned as Anthonie c and diuerse also both of the ancient fathers and some among the Papists and some among vs haue not béene destitute of the gift of prophesie and much more may I say this for the gift of healing for none of these giftes or graces giuen then or since or yet to men inferre the gift grace of Gods election adoption or be of necessitie to saluation But were there no other gifts and offices then in the primitiue church but these six by our brethren heere reckoned besides the foure which they make standerds and remainers Looke on the places before cited and there we shall finde a great many moe of which the most part haue euer béene and yet
in Basil His booke De Institutione Monachorum translated by Ruffinus an Elder also of Aquilegia but withal a teacher of the word liuing in Hieromes time dooth sufficientlie declare Where Cap. 16. and treating of a gouernor of the Church he maketh the Monke for he procéedeth dialogue wise to aske this question Monachus What ought hee to thinke of himselfe which is a gouernor And what manner of man ought he to be towards them whom he commandeth and gouerneth Basilius Verilie before God euen as the minister of Christ the stewarde of the ministeries or rather the mysteries of God fearing least that besides the will of God or besides that which is euidently commanded in the holie Scriptures he either speak any thing or coÌ„mand any thing or bee found as a false witnes of Christ or a sacrilegious person or a bringer in of anie thing that is strange froÌ„ the doctrine of God yea or leuing out or going beyoÌ„d any of those things that are acceptable vnto God But to the brethren he ought to be as it were a nurse that cherisheth her litle ones And he must be ready according to the will of God according as is expedient for euery one to coÌ„municate with them not onely the Gospell but his life also Being mindfull of the commandement of the Lord and our God saying I giue you a new commandement that ye loue together as I haue loued you No man hath a greater loue than this that hee should giue his life for his friends Wherby it appeareth that Basil acknowledgeth no other Eccl. gouernors of the Church but such Elders as were ministers of the worde Sacraments And this also be saith of those that were the correcters or their breca 17. Mo. How shal we O Father reproue ameÌ„d him that offeÌ„deth Ba. As it is written the Lord speaking it If thy broâ—her shal sinne against thee go and reproue him betweene thee and him alone If he shall heare thee thou hast won thy brother But if he will not heare thee take with thee another or two that in the mouth of two or three witnesses euerie word may stand But if so hebe will not heare them tell the Church And if he wil not heare the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnike or publicane If perhaps this rebuking which is made of many may fall out vnto him for his health And as the Apostle sayd reproue beseech comfort in all patience and doctrine And againe if anie man obey not the worde note him by an Epistle and keepe not fellowship with him Without doubt he meaneth for the participation of the table Thus writeth Basil of his dutie especially to whome the reprouing of faultes doth belong that he should not onlie be a priuate admonisher but such a publike reprouer also as occasion requireth and that with doctrine as Saint Paule prescribeth to a Pastor And if our Brethren will vnderstâ—â—â— these wordes Dic Ecclesia tell the Church to be the onelie of Elders then let those Elders be such reprouers as heere Basil applyeth the Apostles sentence vnto that they teach doctrine with their reprehensions So that if they bee not with all teachers of doctrine they cannot be the Churches officers for publike Ecclesiasticall reprehension And as we sée Basils iudgement sufficiently by these his writings so for his owne estate and his life set out by Gregorie Nazianzen that was also an Elder vnder Basil is apparant in Gregories Monodia who hauing before declared the parentage the youth the studie of Basil at length he commeth to this Eldership and sayth Illum verò dei dispensatio peâ— Sacerdotij gradus illustrem ac notum oâ—nibus fecit ac inter Presbyteros constituit non c. As for him the dispensation of GOD made him famous and knowen by the degrees of the sacred Priesthoode and placed him among the Elders howbeit not by and by and besides order but by little and little proceeding and beeing promoted by degrees and courses In which wordes he manifestlie sheweth that to heâ— preferred from one degree to another till he come to a gouerning Presbyter Priest or Elder was not to come to bée one that medled not with teaching but to bee Sacerdos to wit a Minister of the sacred worde of God and of his Sacramentes For sayth Gregorie I praise not them that without order are by and by promoted in the Church I rather commend the Mariners custome For they make not their gouernour at the first dash and on a sodaine but first they exercise and trie him by all the offices of a Seaman They will before see howe hee can rowe and then placing him in the fore-parte of the shippe to knowe and perfectlie to learne the windes acquainting himselfe cunninglie to shunne the cliffes and rockes Last of all hauing bene exercised in all the offices they place him in the hinder parte of the shippe and giue him the stearne in his hande and make him gouernour Likewise also in the discipline of warre first hee is made a souldier then a wiffler to set them in their rankes and lastly he is made a Captaine The same is the manner both of the Phisition and of the Painter the one that before hee make his profession hee haue conned manie rules and haue seene and had in handling manye diseases the other to know how to mixe and temper his coulours before and then to drawe his lines and last of all to giue perfect figures vnto his coullors But we see which is a ridiculous matter or rather a lamentable how a Bishop is made with tumult and confusion hee speaketh of that time when the Bishops were choosen by the election and voyces of the people as the Ecclesâ—â—â—â—icall Histories are full of such tuâ—â—â—ts coâ—â—â—â—â—ous neyther in order nor directly but by viciousnes and crafte not hee that is worthie but he that is mightier For he is not promoted that is exercised before but he that is ignorant and rude of the Churches affayres in so much that he commeth fresh from the seculer life as the Giantes at Thebes for as the Poetes feigne when Cadmus at Thebes in Boeocia had sowed the teeth of Dragons suddenly there sprange vp Giantes armed downe to the nauell and so making battell one with an other were slaine the same daye And euen so we make Prelates of one dayes breede And wee hauing not learned what they be doe beleeue that they be wise men which were fortified before with no degree with no vertue with no eloquence hauing susteyned no trauayle for righteousnesse nor any thing at all for the Churche For hee which onely meditateth diuine matters and subdueth his bodie to the spirite that hereafter he may be fitte for a place in heauen is gladly content to holde a lowe and inferiour place among men But he that is ignoraunt and without learning beeing puffed vp and loftie is aduaunced aboue his betters nor is mooued with the
assemblie of Elders This is but our Brethrens collection supposall which they can neuer be able to prooue Nor that Christe euer vsed the word Church in that sense for a chosen assemblie of Elders out of the Church and as easâ—e had it bene for Christe much more plaine for vs if he had sayde Tell the Elders of the Church But his meaning is manifest that the partie iniured shoulde reueale the offence before the assemblie of the whole multitude For why might not the whole multitude heare it And either seuerally from among them or all of them by the Minister or by some other appointed thereunto giue the partie offending a publike admonition but that it must néedes be done by a Consistorie of gouerning Elders Neither dooth he say héere that if the admonition be neglected that then the Church or in the Churches name a Consistorie of Seniors or the publike Minister should excommunicate him but onely let him be as an Ethnick or Publicane vnto thee Wherin he rather séemeth to giue the partie offended leaue to account or shunne him as an excommunicated person than to giue anie commaundement that the Church shoulde so procéede against him And yet if it bee gathered thereon as it may also well be and is collected because he hath despised the Churches authoritie and séemeth remedilesse vnto the Church what necessitie is there that this censure of excoÌ„munication must be prenounced against him by a Consistorie of certaine chosen Seniors and not by the Bishop nor yet by the Pastorall Elder of that Congregation But sée héere the flexible interpretations of our Brethren to serue their fancie Before when they woulde prooue the Pastor could do nothing without the consent of the Churche and gathering together of the seruaunts of Christes housholde they alleadged that which immediately followeth this text héere cited If two of you consent vpon earth vpon anie matter whatsoeuer yee shall aske it shall be graunted to you of my Father which is in heauen For wheresoeuer two or three bee gathered together in my name there am I in the middest of them Héere they make but three yea but two to be the Church and to haue the Churches authoritie Pag. 81. 82. And applying this to their Consistorie Where two of you consent vpon earth c. It will fall out that since the Bishop or Pastor can doo nothing without the consent of the Consistorie nor the Consistorie but with the consent of the Bishop or Pastor if the Bishop or the Pastor be one how manie shall make up this Consistorie when they be but two in the whole that as Christe saith haue consented vpon anie matter Is there anie more than one But now where two or three are reckoned up euen in the same place héere two or three is but priuate admonition and the Church is but the chosen Seniors of the Church And thus they enlarge and restraine the words of our Sauiour Christe rather after their owne humours and deuises than that anie necessitie or probabilitie of the place doth so to conster them But to confirme this their construction of Christes wordes our Brethren procéede and say For our Sauiour Christe in that worde alludeth vnto the assemblie of Elders that was among the Iewes which they called but corruptlie of a Greeke word Synedrion which signifieth a Counsell or Consistories Sanedrin which had the hearing and determining of all difficult weightie matters among the Iewes the like whereof he willed to be established in his Church for administration of gouernment For seeing it was first instituted by God for gouernment of his Church in the old Lawe as hath bene shewed before out of Num. 11.6 although it was shamefully abused by the wicked Iewes our Sauiour Christe translateth it into his Churche also in the newe Testament And the name of Elders dooth most aptlie agree vnto them that be Gouernours in the Churche now euen as it did to the Auncients of Israel So that the Pastors seeme to haue borowed the name of Elders especiallie in respect of their gouernment Still our Brethren féede themselues with their owne humours and woulde féede vs also with méere winde and allusions if not rather illusions of their owne conceites Bearing vs in hande that Christe alludeth to the assemblie of the Elders that was among the Iewes called the Sanedrim What a straunge illusion is this to imagine these alluons out of Christes wordes They say they will prooue that there ought to bee a Consistorie of Elders in euerie Church for gouerning the same But howe will they prooue this It is manifest by the commaundement of our Sauiour Christe Where is this manifest Christe sayth Tell the Congregation But Christe meanes not there the whole multitude but a chosen assemblie of Elders And is this commandement come but to a meaning And howe prooue they that he meant such an assemblie of Elders He alludeth to the assemblie of Elders among the Iewes that was called the Sanedrim And is this meaning againe come to an allusion And howe prooue they that Christ alluded to that Sanedrim The Sanedrim had the hearing and determining of all difficult and weightie matters among the Iewes the like whereof he willed to be established in his Church for the administration of gouernment And where willed he the like to be established in his Churche For seeing it was first established in his Church in the olde Lawe Christe translated it into his Church in the newe Testament And where made he this translation The name of Elders dooth most aptly agree to them that bee Gouernours in the Church nowe euen as it did to the Auncients of Israel so that the Pastours seeme to haue borowed the name of Elders especially in respect of their gouernment And is all this in the ende come to the Pastors and to their name onely of Elders and that to the seeming whence they borowed their name Héere were great matters promised such as if they could be substaÌ„cially proued must néeds ouer-rule all this question For we are nowe come to the verie head fountain of the matter Our Br. here pretend not so much anie longer the ancient practise of the Church nor the testimonie of the Fathers neither yet the examples of the Apostles but the verie originall institution of Christe himself willing commaunding this Segniorie to be translated from the Synagogue of the Iewes and to be perpetuallie ordeined and established in his Church in euerie Congregation of the same If this now can be proued there is no further reasoning on it wée must néedes yéeld or els we should be found to resist God and to haue no part in Iesus Christe But if this be but onely our Fr meere imagination that Christe neither made anie such translation nor willed or commanded anie such matter nor hath anie such words or such meaning as may enforce any such a thing or anie allusion of
it or of the like vnto it but that the thing it selfe which they their selues woulde applie the wordes of Christe vnto were most different and cleane contrarie from the Seniors which vnder the name thereof they woulde erect nor their selues could pretend whatsoeuer they entend to haue the like erected which if they should they could not without the great alteration manifest danger of all Christian Princes estates and gouernments and of all their Lawes Policies and Common-weales what shall we then thiâ—â—e not so much of the great ouershooting of our Brethren as of the full stay â—nd resolution of our selues from all these deuices and casting thus about to séeke some ground and warrant for these Seniors And first for Christes wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tel the Church Héere he plainlie speaketh of the Church but of no Synedrion or Sanedrin nor anie of the auncient Fathers that I can finde dâ—â— so expound his wordes or gather any such meaning of them Chrysostome saith Tel the Church that is to say the Bishops and Presidents but of Sanedrim or Consistorie he maketh no mention Neither said he saith Chrysostome vnto the Bishop binde this man with bondes but if thou shalt binde him Hierome vpon these wordes But if he wil not heare the Church saith Hee giueth power vnto the Apostles that they which are condemned of such might knowe that the sentence of man is confirmed by the sentence of God Hilarie indéede maketh an allusion of this word the Church vnto the comming of Christe but not to anie Sanedrin or Senate but rather contrarie in ascribing the keyes to the Apostles Theophilact expoundeth it as dooth Chrysostome and as for the Churches excommunication he thinketh Christe speaketh not of it but onely saith If thou saith he being offended holdest him which hath done thee iniurie as a Publicane and Heathen hee shall bee so holden also in heauen but if thou losest him that is if thou forgiuest him it shall be also forgiuen him in heauen For not onely those thinges that the Priestes doo lose are losed but whatsoeuer we also being iniured shall either binde or lose the same shall be also bound or losed So that he applieth this either to the Priests action or to the priuate partie iniured The olde Glosse expoundeth it thus Tell the Church that is the whole Church that he may sustein the greater shame As for the late Writers Vatablus expoundeth these wordes Tell the Church that is the assemblie or publike Congregation or the multitude And so saith Aretius The third degree hath a prouocation to the whole Church that is vnto the assemblie of the faithfull whereof ye are members But the Church is the assemblie of the faithfull wherin the word of Christ and the Sacraments are rightlie administred This forme afterward the Apostles followed 1. Cor. 5.2 Cor. 2. But neither of those Epistles neither that matter was written to any chosen Consistorie but to the whole multitude Munsterus saith Dic Ecclesiae Let his frowardnesse be shewed to the Church And if he shal not heare the Church being warned of manie let him be holden of them as an Ethnicke and a a Publicane And whatsoeuer they shall so binde shall be holden bound in heauen that is whome they hauing so warned shall haue cast out of their companie they also shall bee holden cast out before the Father and againe whom they shall lose and receiue being penitent into their Companie that shal be ratified with the Father Of this power of binding and losing that is of thrusting out of the Church and receauing into the same we haue said somwhat before ca. 16. Where also he sayd But for that which followeth of the keies it hath this sense By the kingdome of heauen is vnderstood the Church of Christ and this is opened by the key of Gods word But the kingdom of heauen is opened to the beleeuers that is forgiuenes of sinnes and eternall life is promised by the word of God And this is to forgiue sinnes as contrariwise to them that beleeue not the key of heauen is shut by the word that is remission of sinnes is denounced So that all this excomm is referred to the denouncing of the Minister of the word and this execution of thrusting out to the Church And so saith Bucer But and if he shall contemne this let the frowardnesse of this man sinning and not willing to repent be shewed to the Church that hee may the third time be admonished of the whole companie among whom he is conuersant But Caluine expoundeth these words Tell the Church farre otherwise Quaeritur quid per nomen Ecclesia intelligat c. It is demanded saith he what he meaneth by the name of the Church For Paule commandeth it not of any chosen nuÌ„ber but of the whole assembly of the faithfull to excommunicate the incestuous Corinthian 1. Cor. 5. b. 6. And therefore it may probably seeme that the iudgement heere is referred to the whole people But because as yet there was no Church which had giuen her name to Christ nor any such manner appointed but the L. himselfe speaketh according to the vsuall and receaued custome there is no doubt but that he alludeth to the order of the olde Church Euen as also in other places he applieth his speach vnto the knowen custome When as he commaundeth the gift which we will offer to be left at the altare vntill we shall be reconciled with our offended brother Mat. 5. d. 23. There is no doubt but that out of the present and legall forme of the worship of God he woulde teach vs that wee can not orderly pray nor offer any thing vnto God so long as wee are at discorde with our bretheren So now therfore he looked vpon the accustomed discipline of the Iewes because it shoulde haue bene absurde to haue proposed the iudgement to the Church which as yet was no Church Furthermore where the power of excommunication appertained to the Iewes that were Seniors which sustained the person of the whole Church aptly dooth Christ say that those which sinned shoulde then at the length be publikely brought footh vnto the Church if proudly they contemne the priuate admonitions or that they elude them skoffingly We knowe that from the time the Iewes returned from their exile in Babylon the censure or controllment of manners and of doctrine was committed vnto a chosen Councill which they called sinhedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Counsel Session or Assemblie of Senators or Iudges This gouernment was lawfull and approoued of GOD and this was a bridle to retaine in dooing their duetie the frowarde and such as woulde not bee taught If anie shall except that in the Age of Christe all thinges were corrupted and peruerted insomuch that nothing ought lesse to haue bene accounted the iudgement of the Church than that tyrannie the aunswere is easie although the manner were
Homilies on the Epistle to the Hebrewes Homilia quarta ex Capite secundo Where hee also mencioneth Presidentes and after that hee had wished them all not to bee taken away by vntimely death he sayth God graunt this and this I wish for and I beseeche the Presidentes and you all that yee pray to GOD one for another and make this your common prayer But if so bee which God forbid and graunt not that it shoulde happen that the bitter death do come I call it bitter not of the own nature thereof for death now is not bitter differing nothing from sleepe but I say bitter death hapneth in respect of our affection and any shall hyer these Women mourners beleeue mee that speake it I speake none otherwise than I may and as I am affected bee offended who so list I will interdict them from the Churche and that for long time euen as though they were Idolaters For if Paule call the couetous man a worshipper of Idolles much more him that bringeth in vpon the faithfull departed the thinges that appertaine vnto Idolaters To what purpose I pray thee doest thou call the Elders and the singers Doest thou it not that they shoulde comfort thee and that they shoulde honour the departed Wherefore doest thou than deface him Wherfore doest thou prosecute him with publique ignominie Wherefore doest thou play vpon a stage Wee come to declare the Philosophie of the resurrection teaching all men and those also that are yet not striken that by the honour rendred to the deade when as the like shall happen vnto them they beare it out couragiously And thou bringest foorth Women which so much as lieth in them marre all our dooinges VVhat is worse than this mockery and derision what is more greeuous than this vn-euen dealing And heere by the way note these Tearmes of Presidentes whome he ioyneth with the people and of Elders that should comfort the mourners whome hee ioyneth with the Psalmistes or singers that hee saith were called for at burialls whome also he ioyneth with him-selfe saying VVee come to shewe the philosophie of the resurrection and to teache all men Whether these were not such Elders as Iames willeth the sick to call for before his death and were called for again at the funeralles to make Exhortations and instructions to comfort and teache the liuing that are assembled at the buriall it appeareth plainly they were teachers of the worde and not Gouernors Praesidentes or Elders that were not Teachers If our Brethren say that those forenamed praesidents were the ciuill Gouernours of the people then againe they make nothing for our Brethrens Ecclesiasticall and not teaching gouernours or Elders of the Church But whatsoeuer they were that the Ecclesiasticall censure of Excommunication belonged to Chrysostome himselfe being their Bishop and to such onely as are Ministers of the worde Let vs see further howe Chrysostome doth proceede Be yee ashamed and adradde But if you will not wee will no longer suffer you to bring into the Church such pernitious customes For those saith Paule thâ—t sinne reprooue them before allâ— And wee forbid by you those wretched women that is to say we charge you not to suffer them or to tell them of this our prohibitation that they neuer be present at the deathes of the faythfull nor at the bearing foorth of them For feare we compell them to bewayle in verie deede their owne euils And leaste wee teache them not to doe these thinges in other folkes but to lament their owne calamities For whereas also a Godly Father hath a prodigall sonne hee not onely admonisheth him that he ioyne not himself vnto wicked men but also he terrifieth him Loe therfore I both charge you and them by you that yee neyther call such together neither that they come vnto you And God graunt that this word may doe some further good and that these threates may preuayle But if so bee which God forbid wee shall be contemned we shall at length be compelled to bring our thretninges into dooins chastising you with the Ecclesiasticall Lawes and them with such correction as shall be fitte for them But if any beeing arrogant shall contemne let him heare Christe euen nowe also saying If any shall offende against thee goe thy wayes and reprooue him beâ—weene thee and him alone But if he shall not heare thee take vnto thee one or two And if so also hee shall resist thee tell the Church And if hee shall also dispyise the Church let him be to thee an Ethnicke and Publican If therefore hee commaunde mee so to shunne him that hath sinned against mee when hee will not heare Iudge you howe I ought to account him that shall sinne against him-selfe and against God For you woulde not contemne vs if wee proceede so mildlie agaynst you But if any man shall contemne these our bindings that we make Christe againe shall correct him saying Whatsoeuer yee shall binde vpon earth shall bee also bounde in Heauen and whatsoeuer yee shall loose vpon earth shall bee loosed in Heauen For if wee also bee wretched and of no regarde and worthie of contempt as in verye deede worthy wee are notwithstanding wee reuenge not our selues nor wrecke our anger But thinke of your saluation Bee yee ashamed I beseeche you and blush For if a man beare with his frend that contendeth with him more earnestlye than is meete considering his meaning that hee doth it of good will and not of insolencie Howe much more shoulde hee beare with his Teacher when hee reproueth him nor speaketh these things of a tyrannicall authority nor as though hee were appointed in place of a Prince but as susteining the care of a Father For wee speake not these thinges as though wee woulde bragge of our power For howe can wee speake these things with this mind that desire not to come to the experience of the things we speake of but with greefe and mourning Pardon me and let not anie man despise the ecclesiasticall band For he that bindeth is not man but Christe which hath committed this power to vs and hath made men the Lords of so great honor For wee verelie would be willing to vse this power onlie to losing yea rather we would that we neither had anie necessitie of that for we desire that we might binde none We are not so miserable and wretched although wee bee verie vile but if we be compelled pardon vs. For neither of our owne accorde or willinglie but rather mourning more for you wee lay the bonds vpon you And If anie man contâ—mne them the time of Iudgement is at hand The residue I wil not vtter least I should beate your mindes down right For this is the thing that we chieflie desire that we might not be drawen into this necessitie But if we shall come to it we will fulfill our office and cast the bonds vpon you And if anie shal breake them I shal doo that is
are euen as much or farre more ordinarie giftes or offices then these foure which they saye are perpetuall S. Paule as is aforesaid distinguishing these giftes saith Rom. 12.6 Seeing then that we haue giftes which are diuerse according to the grace that is giuen vnto vs whether we haue prophecie let vs prophesie according to the proportion of faith or an office let vs waite on the office or he that teacheth on teaching or be that exhorteth on exhortation he that distributeth let him doo it with simplicitie hee that ruleth with diligence hee that sheweth mercie with cheerefulnesse Héere also are other giftes and offices reckoned vp besides these foure of Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons If he meane by office some particular function which is ceased that would be shewed or els it may remaine and be still perpetuall If he meane by teaching Doctor by exhorting Pastor by distributing Deacon by ruling one of those not teaching presbyters preests or elders which our brethren call Gouernors yet that which before the Apostle called an office and that which followeth of shewing mercie are particulerlie specified and distinguished from these foure Doctor Pastor Gouernour and Deacon In what place then shall we reckon those two either as temporall or as perpetuall if temporall then is there moe ceased then those sixe If perpetuall then more than these foure doo remaine Likewise Saint Paule as is aforesaid 1. Cor. 12. saith There are diuersities of giftes c. For to one is giuen by the spirit the worde of wisedome and to another the word of knowledge by the same spirit and to another is giuen faith by the same spirit and to another the operation of great workes and to another other prophesie and to another the discerning of spirites and to another the diuersities of tâ—onges and to another the interpretation of toonges All these the Apostle héere setteth downe as giftes or offices distinguished one from another What now shall we saye to the gifte or office of them that had the worde of wisedome giuen vnto them Was that a temporall gifte or office seruing onelie for the firste planting and foundation of the churche among the Heathen If they saye the aboundant measure of it was temporall that maye be granted and yet the gifte and office still remaine And so likewise of the next gifte or office in them that haue the gifte of knowledge or learning For these are distinguished héere the one from the other as we commonlie say The greatest clearkes arâ— not alwayes the wisest men and these our brethren as they profeâ—â—â— all-ouer this their booke A learned discourse do so beléeue that they hauâ— the spirite of knowledge otherwise they would not commend this treatise vnto vs by such a Title so that I perceaue this gifte also is not yet ceased but that it maye be ioyned to those their foure remainders And what shall we saye to that the Apostle calleth héere the gifte of Faithe making it also a distinct office from the residue If we saye he meaneth the faith of miracles then are those two giftes following of healing and of the operation of great workes not to be vnderstood of the gift of miracles So that either the one or the other séemâ— to be perpetuall And what shall we saye to the gifte or office of discerning spirites For Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. verse 1. saith vnto vs Deerelie beloued beleeue not euerie spirite but trie the spirits whether they are of God for manie false Prophets are gone out into the worlde Which Epistle being called Catholike or Vniuersall serueth to all ages and people of the Churche and the gifte of trying or discerning spirites is yet requisite if not more néedefull nowe then euer it was To conclude for this place what shall we saye for the gifte or office if not of diuersities of toongs yet of the interpretations of toongs Which gifte or office is not onelie at this daye to be with all thankefulnesse acknowledged but GOD which is the author of all gooâ— giftes is highlye to be praised for it and many of our good brethren are indued therewith Moreouer in the place héere by our brethren quoted Saint Paulâ— distinguisheth the gifte or office of helping from that of healing And are all these giftes and offices ceased as temporall and seruing onelie to the first planting and foundation of the churche among the Heathen Naye rather doo not the most of them remaine still in the churche among the faithfull for the continuall building confirmation and establishing of them I graunt thâ—â— remaine in another sorte then as they were firste giuen in the primiâ—â—â—e churche and for the moste times since they haue béene giuen perhaps in an other manner and in lesse aboundance or measure of them But that is not the question but whether all these giftes and offices besides the foure of Doctors Pastors Gouernours and Deacons as they deuide them haue béene expired ceased to be in the churche since the firste planting and foundation thereof among the Heathen For this is our brethrens conclusion Likewise as we doo plainelie see that the giftes of healing of powers or miracles and of diuerse toongs haue long since ceased to bee in the churche so the offices of them which were grounded vpon these gifts must also cease and be determined And shall not we then conclude on the contrarie that the giftes yet in parte remaining the offices must in parte remaine also I speake not this to confirme the Papists of whome our brethren I graunt doo well conclude in saying Therefore the Papists doo vainelie reteine the name of exorcistes when they cannot caste out diuels and extreame vnction when they cannot cure diseases and to speake with strange toonges which they haue not by inspiration and that without anye interpretation which Saint Paule expresselie forbiddeth This dealing of the Papists was méere ridiculous and impious procéeding from a blinde zeale and preposterous imitation of that which they had not And yet whether they had it or not would néeds make ordinarie offices and imitations of them Howbeit how faultie soeuer they were therein yet belye not as they saye the diuell Their faulte was not that they spake with strange toongs which they had not by inspiration for if they had not had them by inspiration and yet had they vnderstood them and the people which heard them had vnderstood them also then had this béene no faulte in them except in speaking faultie matter But is this true that the gifte ceasing the office ceaseth What then if the gifte of ruling that Saint Paule speaketh of Rom. 12. verse 8. And the giftes of those Gouernours whome he mentioneth 1. Corinth 12. verse 28. vnderstanding the same as our bretheren doo haue ceased or doo cease or should cease will they graunt that the office of their desired Seniorie whome they call Rulers or Gouernours shoulde cease also and bee expired or determined And must wee vpon this presupposall that there was
they here giue thē an harder title to be not the greatest fauourers then that I hope they will say they implie our gratious Soueraigne in that tearme If then they meane that we liue vnder such a blessed Prince as fauoureth the Gospell doe these men speake it in good sooth as indéede sooth it is or doe they Iest or speake it but for fashion sake But howe-soeuer they séeme to glaunce hereat for they neither say it in expresse wordes but as it were by comparison doe séeme to inferre as much in telling vs of other places in the worlde where the Princes are not the greatest fauourers notwithstanding they tell vs neither what thing it is whereof they are not the greatest fauourers But I ghesse that in this their Rhetoricall breuitie they meane that they fauour not the Gospell or the Church of God For it séemeth they referre it not to this Regiment that themselues fauour and desire For so they knowe that her Maiestie being also not the greatest fauourer of their desired Regiment they might conclude that the Churche of Englande which they crie out of to bee in a state disordered should bée in that most blessed estate which they desire They séeme therefore to meane this that her Maiestie is indéede a fouourer of the Gospell or Church of God and yet the state of the Churche of God vnder Her Maiestie is in an vnperfect lesse blessed and more disordered estate than it is where the Princes are not the greatest fauourers of the Church of God and of his Gospell Which if it be their meaning as I woulde be loath to gather of their wordes anie thing beyonde their meaning so I had rather they expounded themselues or that their wordes néeded not an expositer as well many times as an aunswere Nowe then if their meaning be thus that her Maiestie is a fauourer of the Gospell and of the Church of God although this in some sense may séeme but a colde and sclender commendation bestowed on her Maiestie to bee but a fauourer as though thee liked well ynough thereof and liked of others that professed it but her selfe were not so zealous a professour and louer of the Gospell yet construyng all this to the best interpretation of her fauour thereunto that her Maiestie is a great fauourer of the Gospell of God and of his Church howe then doth shee so highlie fauour the same and yet not suffer the Church of God to be so perfecte in all her Regiment as where no Christian but Heathen Princes are and not to be in so blessed estate as it is vnder those Ciuill Magistrates that are not the greatest fauourers Meaning indéede vnder a gentle name for reuerence sake are no fauourers at all but so much as they can hate and persecute the Gospell and Church of God and yet will they nill they suffer it more to florishe herein than her Maiestie doeth béeing so great a fauourer of the same What a foule rebuke vnder pretence of commendation is this to her Maiestie Yea what a kinde of fauouring call ye this when the not fauouring of the enemie is better for the Regiment of the Church than the fauourers loue Indéede accidentalli◠thinges may fall out so cleane contrarie as he that thought to kill his enemie did him more good in thrusting him thorough and opening that impostume settered within him then all his friendes and Phisitions that could not helpe him But what gra-mercie was that to him Whereas directly of it selfe is not this threatned of God that he will take awaye a good Prince in his wrath and giue an euill Prince to punishe the wickednesse of his people and doeth not God promise as a great blessing to his Church that Kinges should be the foster fathers and Queenes should be the noursing mothers thereof But by these men they had a better Regiment when they had Pharao to nourse them with drowning of the infantes in the water and oppressing their parentes on the lande and when Herode bathed the infantes in their owne bloud Did GOD meane they shoulde haue suche Pappe with an Hatchet and that Princes should be nourses on that fashion Or did hee rather meane that when he would sende such Princes as should fauour his Gospel and his Church euen as the good nource comforteth and guideth well the childe and is as it were an-other Parent to it vnder whom the childe battelleth and is well brought vppe so next vnder GOD our heauenly Father wée should be nourished fed comforted defended and guided till we growe to our perfect age in Iesu Christe vnder the godlie Gouernement of our Christian Princes And is this that is promised for so great a blessing turned to a curse And the curse turned to so great a blessing God is able indéede to turne all thinges to good God had his Church still euen in the most dreadfull persecutions that euer were and the gold is siner that is tryed in the fornace seuen times So that this redoundeth in the end both to the greater glorie of God and to the better confirmation of his Church But what can we conclude hereon That the Church when such hauocke is made in the congregation and it is dispersed here and there is then more perfect in al her Regiment and in most blessed state S. Paule saith Rom. 5. Where sinne abounded grace did more abound But what shall we say then saieth S. Paule Rom. 6. Shall we continue still in sinne that grace may abound God forbid And in those dayes of more iniquitie abounding in the time of planting amonge the Gentiles the faith and Gospell of Iesus Christe the most parte of the Gentiles raged and the people imagined vaine thinges the kinges of the earth assembled and the rulers came together against the Lorde and against his Christe Al-be-it the faith tooke rooting amonge some both Princes and people And GOD in that extraordinarie time dealt extraordinarilie with them both with extraordinarie gifts and extraordinarie offices Whereby he so helped and beautified that Primitiue estate of the Churche of Christe among all those troubles persecutions dissipations that the Church séemed rather to flourish thē to be oppressed to be In most blessed estate in some respects when in other respectes it was in most pitifull estate as S. Paule sayth 2. Cor. 6. of Gods helpe at such times For he sayth I haue heard thee in a time accepted and in the day of saluation haue I succoured thee Behold now the accepted time behold nowe the day of saluation We giue no occasion of offence in anie thing that our ministerie should not be reprehended but in all thinges wee approue our selues as the ministers of God in much patience in afflictions in necessities in distresses in stripes in prisons in tumults in labours By watchings by fastinges by purenesse by knowledge by long suffering by kindnesse by the holie Ghost by loue vnfeined by the worde of truthe by the power
former place the Apostle teacheth that they are the ordinaunce of God saith hee GOD hath ordained in the Church firste Apostles secondlie Prophetâ—s thirdly Doctors or Teachers In the later place hee testifieth that our Sauiour Christe ascended on highe ledde captiuitye captiue and hath giuen giftes vnto men amongest which giftes he accounteth the function of Teachers Who should then refuse to embrace the ordinaunce of God Who should depriue vs of the free gift of Christ Your argument is this The ordinaunce of God free-gift of Christ is such as none should refuse to embrace it or depriue vs thereof The office of Doctors or Teachers distinct from Pastors is the ordiâ—aunce of God and the free gift of Christ Ergo None should refuse it or depriue vs of the office of Doctors or Teachers distinct from Pastors Your Maiâ—r you let alone as so cleare and inuincible that nothing caÌ„ be said therto Your Minor you confirme by 2 places out of S. Paule 1. Cor. 12.28 Eph. 4.11 And â—â—rst because you would carry your Maior so cleare away without touch of brest Let vs sée how the very proofe of your Minor beates it if we should go no further True it is in your former proofe 1. Cor. 12. that it is the ordinaunce of God and that there he reckoneth vp thirdly Teachers but if this be named there the thirde then belike there were two reckoned vp before Neither doth the text stay at the third of Teachers but procéedeth saying Then them that do miracles after that the gifts of healing helpers gouernours diuersities of tonguâ—s And euen so lykewise for your other proofe Ephes. 4. that the function of Teachers iâ— among the giftes of Christ he reckoneth vp there also three other before it yea fower by your reckoning of them if a Teacher be distinguished from a Pastor Now then if the Maior of this argument may go so scotfrée what aileth this argument on the same The Ordinaunce of God and free gift of Christ is such that none shoulde refuse to embrace it or depriue vs therâ—of But Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes they that do miracles the giftes of healing helpers Gouernours diuersities of tongues are the ordinaunce of God and the free giftes of Christ Ergo None should refuse to embrace Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes them that do miracles c. or depriue vs of them My Minor I prooue out of these two testimonies 1. Cor. 12.28 and Eph. 4.11 Nay soft will you peraduenture say staye your prooues of your Minor till yee haue prooued your Maior For except yee distinguishe what manner ordâ—naunce of God and what manner free-giftes of Christ they bee your Maior can-not be so roundly yéelded vnto No can say I are they not all the ordinaunces of God and free gifts of Christ. Who then should refuse to embrace them or depriue vs of them Nâ—y be not so hasty perhaps will you say for we refuse not to embraâ—e them in their kindes nor we depriue any of them but allowe them as ordinaunces and free giftes of God but not ordinaunces or giftes all alike For say you of these offices some were temporall seruing onelye for the first planting and foundation of the Church among the Heathen some are perpetual pertaining to the nourishing and building vp of the Church for euer Is it euen so I pray you then my Maisters turn the glasse and looke héere vponyour owne argument Yea but wil you say we speake héere of that ordinaunce and gift that is perpetuall Doe ye so Looke on your wordes better once againe and also on the prooues of your Minor Do ye finde there any such distinction either specified or inferred of these two Testimonies What though it be not wil you say will you deny that the ordinaunce and gift of Teaching is perpetual No I denie it not in that sence the Apostle speakes it Nowbeit as you would distinguish it from Pastors and make it a seuerall office and in that sorte make it as perpetuall as Pastor is I may well denie it nor you doe proue or euer are able for to proue it But the thing that in your Maior I nowe denie is that euery ordinaunce of God free gift of Christe is so perpetuall that none may nowe refuse it or be depriued of it And yet properly we may wel say it is no refusal to embrace the ordinance of god nor depriuation of the free gifte of Christe on our parts when Christe him-selfe refuseth to continue the ordinaunces and giftes in his Church then are we no longer to vrge them or to looke for them To the Minor that the office of Doctors or Teachers distincte from Pastors in such forte as is héere prescribed is the ordinaunce of GOD or free gift or any gift of Christ at al til ye can better proue it out of these 2. places I denie it For these places doe rather inferre that the ordinaunce gifte or office of a Teacher is not so precisely distinct from a Pastor The former place 1. Cor 12.28 not omitting the ordinaunces giftes offices transitory and comming to those that are perpetuall mencioning Teachers Since Pastors are Teachers also by your owne teaching doth rather inferre by Teachers Pastors then cleane omitte them And so doe many both auncient and late interpreters expounde the worde Doctor or Teacher in that place Chrysostome Tertió Doctores Nam qui c. For hee that fortelleth thinges to come fore-telleth them all by the spirite suggesting them As for the Teacher it often falleth out when as hys reason is of his own making Whereupon also â—e saith in an other place the Elders that gouerne well should be honoured with double honour especially they that labour in the administration of the worde of doctrine c Which sentence of S. Paule to Timothie these our Learned discoursers applie vnto their Pastors To whome accordeth Theodoret. Tertio Doctores Nam iâ— quoque c. For they also beeing inspired with Diuine grace did both alleage doctrine out of the diuine sentences and also they brought foor the morall Exhortation which these Discoursers here forbid them as appertayning vnto the Pastors office Hieroms opinion of the word Doctor or Teacher in the said place as it is in his common places cited by Musculus so the same Wolfgangus Musculus on 1. Cor. 12. saith Non recenset Accurate c. He doth not exquisitly recken vp al the offices of the Ministers of Christ. For Eph. 4 he placeth Euang Pastors after Prophetes and then placeth Teachers And it appeareth that Teachers are the same whom there he calleth Pastors The worde is apparant that wee should vnderstande them to be Teachers who Teach in the church This was the office of Bishops and Presbyters who also by a Metaphorical word were called Pastors Whome the Apostles placed ouer the Churches that they had planted And notwithstanding Act 20. Paule heere by the spirite of God saith that they were
other ministers of the Church fewe or manie were not onely of this one Citie of Ephesus but of diuerse besides there-aboutes Neither is this my coniecture onely although if it were I hope the indifferent marker not of men but matter shall finde it carieth probabilitie but Gualter also is herein of my opinion For saith he he calleth out euen vnto Miletum which is about thirtie or fourtie miles distant the Elders or Bishoppes of the Ephesians and of the Cities adiacent and taketh order with them for waightie matters in a generall Synode But nowe let vs presuppose that all these Pastors Priestes or Elders were onely of the Church at Ephesus doeth it followe necessarily therevpon that because Saint Paule calleth them all by the name of Bishoppes they might not heare be Metaphorically called or rather in some respect then as the name might afterwarde and euen in the Apostles times be more properly restrayned to some Pastors that had some superioritie ouer their fellowe Pastors So that all were not of equall dignitie and authorite though these at that time were For as this name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came from the heathen so when it was first borowed of the sacred writers and beganne to be vsed in the Churche of God it might be vsed more indifferentlie As also the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Which names are not alwaies vnderstood in the Scripture in like proper sense as since they haue vsuallie béene and be accepted And yet to this daye we doo not so restreine this name Bishop but in respect of that the nature of the worde implyeth we maye not onelie vse it still for euerie Pastor or Minister of the worde and sacraments but also as wee commonlie saye euerie man is a Bishop ouer his owne familie and families also are sometimes called Churches As Col. 4.15 and euery faithfull man is called euen a sacrificing Priest as you translate it and a King Apoc. 5. But all this debarreth not but that these wordes maye in other places be taken in other senses and maye more properlie bee applyed to some especiall offices And so is the name of Bishop bothe wayes taken And to shew this more manifestlie as we allowe not any of the errors or abuses of the Popish Bishops or other their ecclesiasticall orders or offices any more then any of our most zealous Bretheren do so if we peruse euen their owne assertions and the auncient Fathers bothe for this title of Bishops and other titles orders degrées dignities and differences of the state ecclesiasticall in the Primitiue Churche wee shall finde sufficient proofe and warrant héereof The writers of the Centuries Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. pag. 507. in their title of the policie or gouernement of the Churche doo saye Among the persons that gouerned the Churche in this age these differences doo occurre For some are called Apostles Eph. 4. 2. Cor. 12. And not onelie those twelue Disciples of Christe are noted by that name but Paule euery where in all his Epistles calleth himselfe the Apostle of Christe and Act. 14. Paule and Barnabas are called Apostles Epaphroditus is named the Apostle of the Philippians Philip. 2. Andronicus and Iunias are notable among the Apostles Rom. 16. Other Prophets Ephesians 4. 1. Cor. 12. By this name bothe they were called that were famous in the gifte of Prophesie and also they that interpreted the Prophets that is the Scriptures Act. 11. c. Act. 13. Other Euangelists Eph. 4. Hee gaue other to bee Euangelists By this name they not onelie appeare to be called who wrote the historie of the Gospell as were Matthew Marke Luke Iohn but they also which euerie where did teache the Gospell For Philip one of the seauen Deacons ordeined in the beginning at Ierusalem is called an Euangelist Act. 21. And Paule bids Timothie doo the worke throughlie of an Euangelist 2. Tim. 4. Other Pastors Ephes. 4. Other Doctors Ephe. 4. and 1. Corin. 12. Other Elders 1. Pet. 5. or Bishops for Bishops and Elders are taken for the same Act. 20. Paule saith to the Elders of Ephesus the holy Ghost hath placed you Bishoppes to gouerne the Church of God Tit. 1. I haue left thee in Creta that thou shouldest in euerie towne ordaine Elders c. For a Bishop must be blameles c. Iac. 5. Here euen as you would haue it these Centuriographers doe distinguish betwéene the persons that were Pastors and that were Doctors And also they made Elders and Bishops to bee all one But they make Elders or Bishops to be distinguished from Pastors And how agréeeth this with that you héere auouche that by the name of Elders the Pastors are called and that Bishops be Pastors and that the names of Pastors and Ouer-seers doo concurre Neither agréeeth this with you that they saye after they haue reckoned vp Deacons and waiting Ministers or attendants on the Apostles Meminerunt c. They remember onelye three degrees Apostles Presbyters or Bishops and Deacons All which three were founde in some Churches while as the Apostles were yet aliue For in the Churche of Ierusalem in the beginning there were twelue Apostles who exercised the ministerie of the Churche But the number of the Churche increasing and when necessitie required a more diligent care of the things that were common seauen Deacons are chosen and ordeined Act. 6. There are also in the same Churche Prophets Act. 11. There are Apostles and Elders Act. 15. They were receaued of the Churche and of the Apostles and Elders When Paule came last of all vnto Hierusalem hee founde there Iames and the Elders whoe are sayd to haue come togither Act. 21. In the Churche of Antiochia for a time were Paule and Barnabas who are called Apostles and Prophets Doctors whome it is lawfull to call Elders If nowe the sacred writers of the New Testament doo remember but onelie three degrees Apostles Elders or Bishops and Deacons which all thrée were founde in some Churches while the Apostles were yet liuing which is the time that you prescribe and which is the time whereof these men said in the beginning of this matter that in this parte no age is to be compared heerevnto where is then become the Ecclesiasticall gouernement of all these foure persons Doctors Pastors Gouernours and Deacons Where are héere your Gouernours if yée include them in the name Elders they expresse what kinde of Elders they were Elders or Bishops As you héere saye and ye call them Pastors and they say that those whome we may call Elders were Apostles Prophets and Doctors So that your other gouerning Elders that were neither Apostles Prophets nor Doctors are excluded and your distinction also betwéene Elders and Doctors is remooued Neither doo euen your owne examples which immediatlie followe any whitte helpe you In the Church of Phillippos are Bishops and Deacons Phil. 1. Paule and Barnabas are saide to create onelie Elders Act. 14. Paule biddeth Titus to make
that they would still haue some cause though it were not greate to complaine euen for lacke of them when they had them And as for other matters they would stâ—ll pretend as great cause or greater to complaine as much as they did before And so after all these things were granted to theÌ„ we might be little or neuer a whit the more eased of their complaining For the nature of some is neuer to be contented euen when they haue the thing they would yet still Plus vltra itch and ease cannot please And this our Bre. séeme to insinuate before hand by indenture saying If we may vse like diligence continue theÌ„ Under which doubtful exception we shal euer hang in a continuall suspense of as great complaining and contending as before But now if our Breth cannot haue all these meanes that they haue herâ— deuised graunted vnto them what then wil they doe If not we wil spend the rest of our life in mourning Sée héere what a straunge qualme is sodainlie come ouer the stomacke of our Brethren Right now so full pregnant in diuising prouisions diuisions supplies erecting correcting placing displacing many other means which don they fal to chierful encoraging to giue the onset imagining facilitie and expecting to ouercome all difficultie promising good successe and Gods blessing and theirs to bee with them setting a time yea offering to ieopard their liues on the bargen in the meane season vsing all allurementes extolling the Queenes Maiestie for her high authoritie her dreade Soueraigntie the inioying by her a comfortable peace her most gracious gouernmeÌ„t her most honourable and glorious râ—igne with the time that is alreadie prosperouslie passed Whose heart would not all these things reioyce and inflame and now on a sodaine or euer the sentence come to his full breathing periode if they cannot haue their wils in all these things this sentence is cut off Totnam is turned French and all this faire weather is cleane ouercast with such a blacke clowde and terrible threates of stormes that these our Brethren will not now pout for anger like a sulleine shrew but they will become mourners yea they vowe héere that they will spend the rest of their life in mourning take no comfort in all these blessings of God nor in anie her Maiesties neuer so high authoritie nor in her most gratious gouernment nor in her most honourable and glorious raigne nor in anie of the time that is alreadie prosperouslie passed but euen as though some cruell tyrant some Heathen or Popish persecuter did oppresse the Church and them as though Herode had killed all the children in Bethleem and the coasts round about and Ieremies Prophesie were yet to bee fulfilled A voice was heard in Rama mourning and weeping and great lamentation Rachel weeping for her children and would not be comforted because they were not euen so our Brethren promise not onelie to mourne for the time passed though they coÌ„fesse it passed prosperously or for the present time which they infamouslie call a state of the Churche most corrupt but as though it were in a desperate state and past al hope if all these their deuised meanes take not place as though they would neuer héereafter take comfort anie more so long as they liued they héere solempnlie pronounce that they wil spend the rest of their life in mourning Phie phie Brethren euen for verie shame of the world besides the offence of God that euer such spéeches should haue passed your penne for I hope you neuer speake theÌ„ with your mouths nor let theÌ„ sinke at least into your heartes doth such waywardnesse become such learned discoursers And I beséech you Brethren euen in the consolations of Iesu Christ if ye speake from the heart and in good sadnesse and not rather by some rhetoricall amplification more to moue your readers than your selues are mooued that ye wold be better aduised eate this word that you would repent reuoke this too too passionate and hastie promise which sauoureth more of Ionas or Esdras impatiencie in their mourning to thinke no worse thereof than of such staied men as you would seeme to be If you cannot herein haue your desires possesse your soules with patieÌ„ce comfort your selues in Christ as all good Christians and all true subiects all wise men ought to do But what is the cause that our Bre. thus in their hast do promise to spend the rest of this liues in mourning if they want these things Doe the feare anie daunger Yea say they An expectation of the heauie vengeance of God which must needs fall vpon vs for this manifest coÌ„tempt of his expresse commaundement and neglect of increasing the glorious kingdome of our sauiour Christ. This were we confesse an horrible crime and it is a fearefull thing to fall into the handes of the liuing God if his wrath bee kindeled and goe from him we hauing heaped wrath vnto our selues against the daie of wrath And as Saint Paule saith Heb 10.26.27 If we sinne willinglie after that we haue receiued the knowledge of the truth theâ—â— remaineth no more sacrifice for sinnes but a fearefull expectation of iudgement and violent fire â—hich shall deuour the aduersaries But as wheÌ„ he spake before cha 6 of the like dreadfull expectation he added this comfort verse 9. But beloued we haue persuaded our solues better things of you and such as accompanie saluâ—tiâ—n though we thus speake euen so both we are persuaded better of our Breth than that they wil spend the rest of their liues in mourning and expectation of the heauie vengeance of God I hope they are persuaded better of vs also For although we humblie acknowledge that by our manifolde sinnes if God should enter into iudgement with vs neither we nor they nor anie flesh could sustaine it yet by vnfained repentance and assured faith flying vnto the throne of grace our onelie mediator and sauiour Iesus Christ wee firmelie hope and hope shall not confound vs that God the Father for Christs sake wil diuert this heauie vengeance both from our brethren and from vs. But they threaten that it must needes fall vpon vs for this manifest contempt of his expresse commandement neglect of the increasing of the glorious kingdome of our sauiour Christ. God forbid that wilfullie we should doe either of these things and God be mercifull to vs all we must néeds confesse and voluntarilie we do it with heartie sorrowfulnesse and deprecation that there is in vs a neglect in some respects of increasing the glorious kingdome of our sauiour Christ in that neither we nor they nor anie the best of vs all doo our dutie with so much diligence and indeauour as we should doe God forgiue vs that is past and amend as for that is to come to be more able and diligent than we bee But that this neglect is in respect of this that knowing these meanes by
the publique Prayers also the forme and manner of things with what authority then do our brethren take vpon them to traÌ„spose in the Church of England that which the Church of England hath disposed with what authority can they abrogate or alter the dayes and times of preaching administring the sacraments that the Church of Engl. in like maner by her authority hath disposed with what authority can they dispose assemblies commâ—â—gs together of the people to bee made in other places than to that purpose are disposed with what authority can they controul or disobey the form manner of the publike praiers vsing those thingâ— in the ordinary seruice that the church of Eng. hath disposed to be vsed yet they wil not only refuse to vse thosethings the form manner of publike prayers nor only deface reuile them as naught but set forth oppose against that which by the churches autority is disposed another forme maner of publike prayers of their own disposing Yea if wee were disposed to examine better their owne positions how standeth this with their prayer on the other side of the leafe pag. 69. saying God graunt therfore that in steed of ordinary formes of praier we may haue preaching in all places If the church haue authority to dispose for publike prayer the form manner so that al things be done comely agreeable to order but especially that in all thinges principal regard be had to edification then not only a forme of publike praiers hindreth no whit but furthereth comlines order edificatioÌ„ but also the church vsing her authority in disposing of an ordinary form of publike praiers so well as in disposing the daies times places for preaching it cannot be that preaching in all places shoulde bee had in steed of publike praiers but that both of them should stil continue in their dayes and times places forme and manner by the Churches authority disposed And what followeth hereupon but that either our brethren must denie the Church of England to be the Church and so not to haue authority of their disposing of these things or els granting it to be the Church that is to say a particuler Church for I think they wil not say that they mean this only of the vniuersal church nor yet of euerie seueral congregation for so our Bre. assertion were not true but speaking heere indefinitely that the church hath authority to dispose these thinges they mean euery whole state of any true particular Church in Christendome As the Church of England in Engl. the Scottish Church in Scotl. the Heluetian the Geneuian the French and the Dutch Church in their owne states Which being confessed our Brethren beeing neither the Church vniuersall nor the whole state of the particular Church of England but priuate members in the Church of England and though some numbers of them heere and there collected may make some seuerall congregations yet are they not of sufficient authority no not so to collect themselues or haue any autority of making any assemblings or commings together at all in any place being but priuate persons without the disposing of them that haue autoritie in the Church or of the whole estate of the church of England therunto then must they néedes confesse withall that they doe greatly offende in going about to gaine-say and ouerthrowe this authority of the whole Church of England which hath by her authority so much as in her lies disposed ordeined and established these thinges as touching the circumstaunces for order and comelinesse sake but cheefely for edification as the dayes and times of preaching and administring the sacramentes the places meete for the same and for publike prayers also for the form and manner of vsing those things that all thinges be done comely and agreeable to order but especially that in all things principal regard bee had to aedification Nowe when the Church of Englande hath by her authority and by the authority of the supreme gouernor of her vnder Christe and of all the gouernors ecclesiasticall or politicall of her whole estate thus disposed these thinges Is it lawfull for any priuate persons bee they learned or vnleâ—rned be they few or many in the same Church to resist this autority whether this be to resist euen God or no and whether that which Saint Paule wrot to the Romaines Chapter 13. charging them beeing Christians to obey their Ciuill Magistrates though euil and Heathen in ciuill and indifferent matters do not much more binde euery particular priuate Christian all Christian subiects to obey their Christian Magistrates and all good Christian both Ecclâ—siastical and politike gouernors the whol particular estate autority of their own church wherof they are but priuate members I refer it to euery indifferent readers iudgement to our Bre. own answere on better aduisement of these thinges If our Bre. deny that they haue euer done or yet doe resist the Church of Englands authoritie in disposing these things what was all this that was last spoken of against the ordinary form of publike praier diuine seruice besides the authority it selfe of the ecclesiasticall gouernors and many other things of circumstances for dayes times places and administrations of Sacraments that they so vehemently impugne If they say that herein yet they doe not resist nor speake against the Church of Engl. for her authority to dispose these things but resist and speak against her onely for this that the she hath abused her authority and that she hath encroched further than shee hath lawfull authority to warrant her doing for that her authority as touching these circumstaunces is but for order and comelinesse sake and cheefely for edification and that it is to bée restrained with this limittation So that all thinges bee done comely and agreeable to order but especially that in all thinges principall regarde bee had to edification which S. Paule so often and so precisely vrgeth in the 14. Chapter of the Cor. Neither do we desire to haue the Churches authoritie in these circumstances to bee enlarged one inche further And euen so God bee praysed hath the Church of Englande had and especiall consideration of al these 3. points of comlinesse of order and of edification If they thinke not so acknowledging her to bee a true Church except they can proue it better than hitherto they haue done and yet should they prooue the same also if they coulde with more modesty and humility than they attempt to doe they both offer too great an iniury to their true and louing Mother the Church of England whose Children if any children of the Church they be and bewray too great a partiality to their owne opion And more séemely of the twain it might be thought to all good men that as they confesse their Mother hath authoritie giuen vnto her by their Faâ—her of disposing these circumstances to these ends and
Philip therefore not speaking anie thing at all against it and namely Luke the Euangelist by the inditement of the holy Ghost consecrating the same to a perpetual record that such a Queene had there bin no more but she alone was there the gouernour and her such worthie nobles vnder her regiment as this Eunuch was how can we choose but coÌ„clude herevpon that the holie Ghost improueth not the state of a womans supreame gouernment but that it maye if there be no other impediment than her sexe accord together well inough with the sincere profession of the Gospell Danaeus next ensample is of Cleopatra of the Aegyptians vnder Augustus Cleopatra was indéede in the time of Octauius for he vanquished her louer Antonius and she would at the first haue allured him likewise as she had done before his adoptiue father Iulius Caesar. But séeing he minded that she should haue ben vnder his subiection as a captiue she wilfully made a waie her selfe that she might not be vnder his authoritie all which was done before he was surnamed Augustus She was Queene of Aegipt at the first ioyntlie raigning with her brother Ptolomie whome when hee would haue deposed from participation in the kingdome she fled to Iulius Caesar. Who reconciling her vnto her brother wheÌ„ afterward her brother was drowned she raigned alone vntill she ioyned her selfe vnto Anthonius Who being ouercome by Octauius Anthonie shee destroying themselues that kingdome became prouinciall as many other did vnto the Romanes But how dissolutelie so euer shee liued her state while shee was Queene was lawfull Neither was this Cleopatra the onlie Queene that gouerned Aegypt there was another Cleopatra grandmother to this which also was the Queene chiefe gouernour of Aegypt besides the widowe of Ptolomeus Philometor Besides another Cleopatra Silene the Quéene of Syria eueÌ„ at that time when Alexander raigned in Iudea Yea the raigne of a woman in Aegypt was so auncient that the Chronicles report that Rhea the mother of Osyris the great raigned in Aegypt And Isis her daughter after her called Iuno of Aegypt Eusebius calleth her Iò on whose monument as Diodorus Siculus testifieth was ingrauen this Epitaph I am Isis the Queene of Aegypt instructed by Mercurie Those things that I in my lawes haue decreed let none violate And as it was in Aethiopia and Aegypt which are two principall partes of Aphrica so in Lybia Berosus sheweth how Minerua the daughter vnto Iupiter of Lybia the sonne of Ammonius taught the discipline and lawes of gouerning an armie and after went to Greece where she builded Athens and there raigned And with these Palladian women saith Functius Tab. 16. Hiarbas in Lybia making warre was of them vanquished and submitted his kingdome to their power Of Dido in Aphrica we haue heard Vadianus iudgement Next to Cleopatra Danaeus citeth Zenobia vnder the Emperour Adrian a most valiant woman vnto the gouernment of which Zenobia obeied also many Christian Churches I wonder that Danaeus saith Zenobia liued vnder Adrian or in the time of his raigne who raigned and died if she were sortie yeres olde when she was vanquished by Aurelianus at the least one hundred yéeres ere shee was borne a greate many famous Emperours raigning betwéene their times This Zenobia was indéede as Danaeus calleth her a most valiant woman and is highly commended Though her wearing armour and the suspition of her husbandes death were no small blemishes to her gouernment But for this point of the lawfulnes of a womans gouernment Danaeus owne testimonie is in my fancie a great both praise and proofe that not onelie the Heathen but many Christian Churches did obey her For had the gouernment of a woman or the obedience thereunto of men béene monstrous vnnaturall or anie whit against the faith and life of Christianitie though some might for feare and infirmitie haue beene inforced yet would not many and those true Christian Churches haue obeied such a state Which obedience in them argueth their good affections in this point and that neither quarelling at the vices in their persons nor at the infirmitie of their sexes but to obey them as the higher powers that their power is of God is an obedience to be yeelded euen for conscience as this was praise worthie in them a good example to all other Christian Churches so not a little it recommendeth her that being an Heathen woman in those daies when the most renowmed Princes wer persecutors she quietly gouerned many Christian Churches and they Christian like did obey her These are the examples that Danaeus citeth of womens chiefe gouernment among the Heathen But least we should thinke there were so few examples as onely foure for all the world to gaze on such rare monsters as Caluine Caenalis vnreuerently tearme them before we descend to the people of Gods Church to the Monarchie of Rome and to the states in Christendome let vs yet sée a few mo to beare these princely dames companie And euen at the time of Zenobia with whom Danaeus leaueth Coelius telleth of another famous woman gouernour at Coleine named Victorina which with Tetricus noblie defended the Gaules and the Spaniards from the inuasions and spoiles of the Barbarians Thomiris the Queene of Massagethia that vanquished the mightie Monarch Cyrus in defence of her Country was such a gouernor Zarina Queene of the Sachans to whom the Parthians for the fame of her valour and iustice reuolted from the Medians was also such a notable gouernor Cratesipolis likewise gouerned the Sicionians Such an other was Artemisia the Queene of Halicarnassus that to her power helped Xerxes against the Grecians built that famous MausoleuÌ„ her husbands tombe one of the 7. wonders of the world Pithodoris the queene of the Tiberians of the Chaldeans of Cholchis of Pharnacia and of Trapezond did noblie gouerne a mightie Empire Tania the queene of Dardania Helen the queene of A diabene of the Chosroenians which reléeued the Iewes with corne in the dearth mencioned Act. 11. Neither néedâ— we be curious to inquire after such forain Quéenes that here at home had not our own countrie barren of such worthy women gouernours of whome Tacâ—â—s writeth in vita Agricolae Britanni sexum in imperijs non discernunt The â—ritains make no difference of the sexe in their Empires Cordilla the daughter of Leire succéeded her father in the kingdome Mercia the wife of Guinthelinus did so prudently gouerne in the administratioÌ„ of the kingdome with her husband that she made many wise politike lawes which long after were in high reputation among the Britons of her name were denominated The Mercian lawes In like manner Bundwica ruled this Realme and maintained warres against the Romanes in defence of her countries libertie Now although that these Heroines a great number mo whome I refer to their diligence that list to collect theÌ„ were in religion to Godward al Pagans and therefore
Cyprian also of whom we may eftsoones vnderstand that matter that the Bishop gouerned a Colledge of Elders not that hee shoulde there reigne but that according to their sentence hee shoulde gouerne the Ecclesiasticall policie especially while at that time the Aphricane Churches were not holpen of the Magistrate but rather most cruelly vexed By the leaue still of this so excellent man whome otherwise saue in these matters of Discipline and Gouernment I honour as highly as any of our Brethren do and herein withall reuerence dissent from him as I haue before of him and of all other our like reuerent brethren protested this which here Beza saith that it openly ynough appeareth by Ambrose quoting Ambrose in 1 Tim. 5. that the Elders which there Beza speaketh of were chosen by suffrages or at leaste by the approouing of the whole company neither any choosing of them eyther by suffrages or by approouing of the whole or any of the company appâ—areth openly or darkelie ynough or at all Ambrose mentioneth no such matter in all the whole Chapter Howe openly ynough Ambrose there speaketh of these Elders we haue already seene It is not so open ynough that we can learn thereby eyther what office or authority or ground therof they had nor yet where when nor howe they beganne continued or ended And therefore it is not so open ynough but that to prooue these Elders which our Brethren woulde bring in to bée like vnto those and to bring warrant ynough that wée are bounde to receiue and chose them I thinke our Brethren woulde wishe it were more open and apparant than Ambrose maketh it And so woulde I wishe also that wée might once certainly knowe whether wée must needes choose them or wée may choose whether we will choose them yea or no supposing they had béene suche as our Brethren suppose they were which neither coulde bée nor hath any probability but all contrarie by the testimonyes coniectures and reasons that we haue séene But because if it be not open ynough Beza will open it more by Cyprian that was Ambroses auncient by almoste two hundred yeares Let vs searche likewise what his Quotations out of Cyprian will open vnto vs and whether in his time which was about the yeare of our Lorde two hundred and sixty there were anie such Elders as medled not with teaching that Gouerned the Ecclesiasticall Discipline and spirituall iurisdiction For so Beza in the beginning of this article sayth that the spirituall iurisdiction was committed to them Now to proue this after he hath done with Ambrose hée addeth and out of Cyprian also of whome wee may eft-soones vnderstande that matter that the Bishoppe Gouerned a College of Elders not that hee shoulde there reigne but that according to their sentence hee should gouerne the Ecclesiasticall policy Or euer we come to sée by his Quotations what manner of Elders soeuer these were whether such as Beza goeth about to prooue and our Brethren vrge yea or no let that fall out after as it shall this is first worth the noting that the Bishop gouerned the College of these Elders and so was aboue them And that not for an action or two or for any set dayes Moneths or yeares but continued as the College continued during his time except he were depriued of his life or deposed of his dignity or exiled from his Country or otherwise absent or fled as then Cyprian him-selfe was fled from his College by reason perhaps of the personall persecution against him And yet hée remayned still as well absent as present the Gouernor of them Yea but sayth Beza not to reigne there God forbid wee shoulde allowe any bishoppe to raigne ouer those of whome hée hath the Gouernment Let that bee vpbrayded to the Pope Wee houlde our selues content with this that Beza sayth hee shoulde rule the Ecclesiasticall policy Yea but sayth Beza according to their sentence And what rule is that if they giue the sentence and he onely rule according to their sentence doe not they rather rule than hee or is he any better than their seruaunt Officer or executioner of their sentence and they his Gouernors not he theirs therefore that shoulde be opened yet more plaine what is meant by their sentence and how farre it stretcheth Or else it is not yet made by Beza open ynough to whome the Gouernment doth belong to him or to them But so farre foorth as belonges to him hee still is all their superior therein Nowe then if it shall fall out that this College of Elders ouer which the Bishop is Gouernor shall prooue to be a College of such Elders as medled as well with teaching of the worde as with the Gouernment of Ecclesiasticall Discipline and bee of those Elders that be his Brethren in the office of Eldership which we call of Presbyters Preestes then haue wée héere againe the permanent superiority of Bishops ouer Pastorall Elders whereof wee haue so much before debated But Beza goeth about another matter cleane contrary to prooue that this College of Elders were of such Elders as were not medlers with teaching of the Worde Which if they were as wee shall sée anone by triall out of these Epistles of Cyprian yet sayth Beza that this was then when as especially by that time the Churches of Aphrica were not helped of the Magistrate but rather moste cruelly vexed And what meaneth Beza to come in with this Especially of that time of heathen Magistrates and their persecution when Gualter maketh the same reason that there were such Elders not teaching though not Ecclesiasticall Gouernors as our Brethren imagine in the Churche then when as there wanted Christian Magistrates and Princes what other thing did hee inferre theron but this that now syth there are Christian Magistrates and Princesâ— and that the Gouernement of Ecclesiasticall matters so well as temporall perteineth to them as we also acknowledge and that moste rightly in the Queenes most excellent Maiesty and if in her then in the right of all other Christian Princes that therefore this defect beeing nowe furnished this supply of these Elders is needlesse and no longer necessary Yea and shoulde nowe be preiudiciall to the authority and Gouernment of Christian Princes And what other thing sayth Gualter there but that this reason of Beza doth inferre Our Brethren reason on S. Paule wordes 1. Tim. 5.17 That because S. Paule bringeth in these wordes Especially those that labour in the worde and Doctrine therfore there were other gouerning Elders that were not teachers And may not we reason as well and much better that sith the Elders which were no teachers but onely ruled the Eccl. Discipline were then when as especially at that time the churches were not holpen of the Magistrate therefore being nowe holpen of the Magistrate there néede no such Elders to be the rulers of the churches Discipline But let vs nowe sée by the search of these Quotations that Beza citeth out
shall binde vpon earth shall bee bounde in Heauen and whatsoeuer yee shall loose c. In this sentence Christ strengtheneth first the Iudgements of priuate men if the Church shall not haue a publike magistrate For when men are wont tobee stubborne it may come to passe that hee that fayleth in his cause before the Church of priuate men and is iudged an Ethnike and publicane may contemne this iudgement and thinke him-selfe neuertheles to be an inheritor of the kingdome of Heauen although hee bee cast out of the assembly of these as hee thinketh them vile or base persons But Christe strengtheneth their authority and affirmeth that their sentence is approued also in Heauen Furthermore hee strengthneth also in this saying the publike iudgementes of them that are in lawfull Magistracy that we may manifestly knowe that their Iudgementes are not of men but are the Iudgementes of God According to that of Paule hee that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinaunce of God And verily Christe in other places with the like sentences in Math. 16. and Iohn 20. chapter confirmeth the authority of the Ministery of preaching the Gospell But in this place hee confirmeth the iudgementes of priuate men or of Magistrates against the contemners that the same shoulde bee ratified before God in Heauen Heere lo is the ratifiing whereof our brethren speake but heereupon hee concludeth thus But all these things are to be vnderstoode of a right and lawfull iudgement and of that sentence which is giuen in the ministery of the church according to the Worde of the Gospell and in causes forinsecall according to the publique and ordinary Lawes For if the sentences of the Iudges or Ministers striue with these it is none before God howe greatly soeuer thou shalt be condemned before men So that here he concludeth with these two excommunications a ciuill and an Ecclesiasticall The ciuill eyther in these priuate mens small assemblies or in the publike Magistrate But the Ecclesiasticall to pertaine onely to the Minister and to be in the Ministery of the worde of God such as was mentioned before Math. 16. And afterward againe Iohn 20. And verily if we shall search the ground of this Eccl. Exc. what abuses soeuer be or haue beene or may be by the Ministers or by any other not Ministers committed therein which I take not vpon me to defende and may easily bee helped without the supply of this Seniory and good prouisions there are in that behalfe yet that the act of the proper Ecclesiasticall Excommunication shoulde be executed by such Ecclesiasticall gouernors as are not Ministers nor teachers of the Worde I can not yet see howe it may be sufficiently warranted or howe it may stand with the nature of this spirituall and Ecclesiasticall censure For if this power of binding and loosing be the same that is called the power of opening and shutting called also the power of the keyes then it cheefely consisteth in the Ministery of the Worde For what is the key but Gods Worde Yea if it bee the same that consisteth in remitting and retaining of sinnes towardes God what other power hath the Church thereof than by the prenouncing of Gods Worde So that our Brethren must eyther make these Seniors to bee Ministers of Gods Worde or else they must graunt that in this place Christe meaneth not such a Seniory of Gouerning Elders as are not Ministers of the Word But here saith Caluine Hic locus non omnino c. This place is not altogether like that place which is aboue written Chapter 16. c. 19. But it is to bee vnderstoode in part a little different But wee make them not so diuers that they haue not muche affinitie betweene themselues This first of all on both parts is alike that eyther of them is a generall sentence and the power of binding and loosing is always the same that is to witte by the word of God the same commaundement the same promise But they differ heerein that the former place is peculiarlie of the preaching which the Ministers of the word of God do exercise Here it pertayneth to the Discipline of excommunication which is permitted to the church There Christe woulde auouch the authority of the Doctrine Here hee constituted Discipline which is an appendant vnto doctrine There hee sayde that the preaching of the Gospell shoulde not be frustrate but that it shoulde bee a quickning or a killing sauour here he affirmeth that although the wicked doe scorne the iudgement of the church notwithstanding it shoulde not bee vayne This distinction is to be holden because there it is simply treated vpon the word preached here vpon the publike censures and Discipline Although I doe not altogether deny this difference in respect of the obiect matter wherin the subiect person hath diuers times on diuers occasions and diuers ends to deale yet since Caluine heere him-selfe maketh the power of binding and loosing the promise also and the commaundement to be all one and the same to consist all onely by the ministery of the word although the occasion or purpose of Christe in the former place Math. 16. be more for ratifying the Doctrine of the worde when it is taught or preached than for ratifying the publique censures and Discipline beeing onely the appendants to the Doctrin Yâ—t this letteth not but rather prooueth so much more that he to whome the execution of both or eyther of these actions being both of them powers of the worde and ministeriall pronouncings of the same word doth appertaine ought to be his selfe a Minister of the worde And thus doth Caluine himselfe afterwarde also confesse saying For neither doth Christe auouch authority of or vnto his church whereby he shoulde diminish his or his Fathers right but rather whereby hee may establish the maiesty of his Worde For euen as before hee woulde not confusedly establish euery Doctrine whatsoeuer but that which proceeded out of his mouth chap. 16. c. 19 So neither sayth he in this place that euery Iudgement whatsoeuer shall be stable and ratified but that wherein he himselfe is president or gouerneth Neyther that onely by the spirite but also by the Worde Whereupon it followeth that men bring no preiudice vnto or hinder not God while they pronounce nothing but out of his mouth and stoode onely to execute faithfully that which he hath commanded For although Christe bee the onely iudge of the worlde yet would hee haue in the meane season ministers to be the publishers of his Worde and then he woulde haue his iudgement to be of his Church set foorth So that commeth to passe that it derogateth nothing from him that the ministery of men commeth betweene but that he onely looseth and bindeth And hâ—ere Marlorate coâ—texteth out of Bucer Hereupon it appereth how proposterously or rather how naughtily some gather out of this place that the Church can doe any thing but cheefely can make lawes of religion which whosâ— despiseth shall
common Election they ordeyned Elders in euerye Churche Actes 14.23 Timothie also receaued his charge although it were through prophecie by imposition of handes of the Eldership 1. Tim. 4.14 Our brethren now to confirme this that no one man hath aucthoritye to ordayne Pastors rub ouer here againe their former examples and firste of Paule and Barnabas Act. 14.23 But the text is moste plaine that Paule and Barnabas did challenge that prerogatiue vnto themselues And as for ordeyning Elders in euery church by common election the testimonie here cited mentioneth neither common election nor election at all Although I graunte election is inferred to haue preceeded where ordeyning is mentioned The woorde as wee haue often seene beefore is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as who saye ordeyning by confirmation or stretching foorth of the hande The Geneua traunslation calleth this ordâ—yning by election And our brethren here to expresse withall whos 's this ordeyning by election was doe add common election Beza telleth vs as wee haue heard of the olde custome among the Grecians and Romaines in holding vp their handes and thereby giuing their voices in the Elections of their officers True it is that many times the word is so taken But doth it follow it must be so taken heere haue wee not heard Caluines better interpretation that referreth it to the laying on of the Ministers handes and not to the lifting up of the peoples and so let the worde be translated for election must it follow it was the peoples But it is a world to see how the greatest learned and best of all when they haue once diepely conceaued an opinion will drawe thinges to their owne coÌ„struction For although Bezaes trauels learning in his obseruations on the newe Testament deserue in generall both laude and admiration yet now and then ouershootes and that not small do escape him as they did Erasmus and others before especiallye in so greate and difficulte a woorke Nemo omnibus horis and as they saye Bonus aliquando dormitat Homerus Yea a meane person of no great learning that otherwise is no whit comparable yet if he doe but marke here the contents it selfe and sence thereof may most eastly perceaue that they vnderstand this worde cleane amisse For to whome is this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 referred to the people or to Paule and Barnabas Luke saith in the two verses next before And preaching or when they had preached the Gospell to that Citie and teaching or had taught many or had made disciples many they retourned c. Who preached taught or made Disciples and retourned here Is not all spoken of these two onely Paule and Barnabas confirming the soules of the Disciples and exhorting to continue in the faith c. Who confirmed them here and exhorted them Are these wordes spoken of anye moe then Paule and Barnabas onely and then it followeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. but ordeyning by confirming with the hand or when they had ordeyned by confirming with the hand elders vnto them by the church or as we english it throughout euery Church praying with fastings they commended them to the L. on whom they beleued passing throughout Pisidia they came to Pamphilia speaking or when they had spoken the word in Perga they went downe to Attalia Is it not here most apparent that these actions both before after are still spoken of Paule Barnabas and wherefore then shoulde these wordes of ordeyning Elders vnto them with confirming by the hand be vnderstood of the peoples ordeyning the Elders with them Is it because they may gather that the people prayed and fasted with them And for the fastings I graunt because he saith with fastings telleth not who fasted any more especially than other Albeit for praying it maye well be ascribed for the action of making or pronouncing these publike prayers vnto one or other of these two Our brethren may remember their owne wordes pag. 63.64 As it were greate confusion and vncomlinesse for euery man to make his seuerall prayers in the publike assemblies so is it orderly for one to pronounce the prayer in the name of the rest and the rest to pray with him in silence and to answere Amen And againe as it perteyneth to the Pastor to conceaue publike prayers so it is the dutie of the whole Church in the name of the whole Church to ioyne in hart with the Pastor in the same prayers In this sence of the consent of their hartes vnto Paule and Barnabas prayers as the people here might bee saide also to haue prayed with them so we graunt that in consent of their hartes they may be saide to haue ioyned with Paule Barnabas in the ordeyning of the Elders And yet this were more hardlye spoken of the ordeyning sith in the very wordes of the text is expressed a different relation betweene Paule and Barnabas on the one partie that ordeined the Elders and on the other parte the people vnto whom they did ordeyne the Elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith S. Luke They ordeyned them with the confirming of the hand vnto them Unto whom but vnto the people wherein it is manifest that the people are cleane seuered from the ordeyners of the Elders and were only the correlatiue parties vnto whom the ordeyners did ordeyne those Elders By all which it is most euident that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath no reference at all to the people or to any action of them but to Paule and Barnabas only and to their action For here were as yet no Elders ordeined to ordeine the Elders in the peoples name sith the Elders were as yet to bee ordeyned But the people did not ordeyne them to themselues with the Apostles therefore the Apostles onely did ordeyne the Elders vnto the people As for the vse of the worde by the prophane writers as also these words Ecclesia Euangelium Episcopus Apostolus and diuers others haue bene vsed prophainely though Beza hereupon conceiue that this action was here vsed also in the people by holding vp their hands Neuerthelesse sith that we haue and that by Caluins owne confession alreadie seene that the Eccl. writers doe vse the word better for that solemne rite sayth he of ordayning which is called in the Scripture laying on of hands why should wée here in this holy action rather follow the interpretation of the prophane vse than of the Ecclesiasticall Why should wee rather ascribe it with the prophane writers of the heathen to the common election of the common people than with the diuine writers of the Church to the imposition of hands which was a sacred ceremonie of ordeyning sacred persons vsed onely by Gods sacred Ministers Neither yet if we shall etymologize the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a band and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a pronouncing of the
and aduise of them that be learned in those matters Neither any good reason nor any ordinaunce of God plaine or not playne in the Scriptures willeth any person taking such aduise leaste of all willeth the Prince on that aduise giuen or taken to thinke that because hee shoulde do nothing without their aduise that he can do nothing without their authority Neither is there any reason or ordinaunce of God in the Scriptures that any which are but aduisers to the prince shoulde fall from aduising him so to incroche vpon him And if I were worthy to aduise princes I would aduise them to take good aduisement howe they aduised themselues by such aduisers and as I am thus aduised mee thinketh it reason And if all princes by heathen wise mens iudgements are so rulers that they are seruantes of the Lawes and of the common wealth why shoulde it bee accounted for any dishonour vnto princes to bee obedient to the Lawes of God their Father and to serue to the commoditie of the Church their Mother It is a greater honour to bee the Sonne of God and the Childe of the Church than to bee a Monarke of all the earth All princes I graunt are such seruauntes of the common wealth not onely by Heathen wise mens iudgementes hut also by all Christian wise mens iudgements too that neuerthelesse their supreme authority in gouerning of the common wealth is not one whit diminished by that seruice And as for their seruice to the Lawes which Lawes either they haue made them selues or were made Lawes before they were made rulers serueth I graunt also to the maintenaunce of those Lawes and to the punishment of the impugners of them howbeit this hindreth not but that princes haue another ruling and not seruing seruice or as wee may well terme it a seruing rule and gouernment besides the conseruing of the Lawes euen to make Lawes as our Brethren haue before confessed And as Saint Augustine excellently well doth say in his 48. epistle ad Vincentium And in his 50. Epistle ad Bonifacium as we haue séene at large before And in his fift Booke De ciuit Dei cap. 24. Hee reckoneth this seruice among the princes cheefest vertues hee sayth that they make their power which they haue to bee a seruaunt vnto the Maiestie of God moste largely to spreade abroad his seruice And of this seruice as Eusebius reporteth in the seconde Booke of Constantines life doth Constantine glory saying I reclaymed mankinde beeing instructed by my seruice or ministery to the religion of the holye Lawe and I caused that the moste blessed fayth shoulde more and more growe vnder a better ruler For I woulde not be vnthankfull especially to neglect my principall seruice which is the thankes that I owe euen of duetie Sith therefore the princes seruice is so high and principall a seruice stretching to the making of Eccl. Lawes and to all these matters which seruice as Saint Augustine sayth Epistola 50. None can doe but princes This seruice is no debarre but rather an aduauncement and prerogatiue of the princes supreme authority in these matters Wee doe not therefore accounte it anie dishonour vnto princes to bee obedient to the Lawes of GOD the Father and serue to the commoditie of the Church their Mother It is rather the greatest honour that in this Worlde and in their royall estate they canne attaine vnto Neyther can any of their subiects Clergie or other compare with them in the supreme degree of that authoritie that onelye Christian princes haue heerein But rather our Brethren woulde abase this authoritie with telling princes they must account no dishonour to obeye the lawes of GOD their Father and serue to the commoditie of the Churche their Mother what lawes of God the Father haue they as yet alleaged either for this matter or for any of their tetrarches that inferre anye of these new Lawes which they all without and besides the authoritie of a prince woulde presse both vpon the prince and vs Or what one thing that beeing better considered serueth to the commoditie of the Churche their and our Mother but rather to the greate disquieting of her in the calme harbour God bee thanked heere in Englande and to the discrediting of her name to all other Churches and peoples rounde about vs and to the great hazarde of her estate amongst vs And is this the way to serue her commoditie If not rather to serue their owne turnes and humors both to the great dishonour of God our father and to the no little damage of the Church our mother besides the dishonour and disobedience of our so gratious Prince with the trouble and endaungering of all the whole Realme But let our Brethren take good héede that they abuse not Princes thus vnder these high titles of God their Father and of the Churche their mother for euen with these termes did the Papistes deceaue Princes and all the world When they sought their owne honour or profite then they alwayes pretended the honouring of God their father and seruing the commoditie of the Church their mother in whose names as Gods and the Churches deputies they tooke on them selues to be honored and their owne commoditie serued both of all Princes and of all people as much if not much more than eyther their father or their mother It is a greater honor say they to be the sonne of God and the child of the Church than to be a Monarke of all the earth And so it is indeede who denieth it and this is also as one of the papists blearing the eyes of princes But any man woman or child neuer so pore or priuate may by the grace of God be so well ynough though he haue no publike auth at all But can not a man be a Monarch though not of al the earth but in his owne dominions be also the Sonne of God and child of the Church and yet with all in his owne Dominions be the supreme gouernor ouer all persons in all matters and causes eccl so wel as temporall Of this honourable subiection to God and his Church Esay prophesieth Chapter 49.23 Kings shall be thy nourssing Fathers and Queenes shall bee thy Nourses They shall worship thee with their faces towards the earth and licke the dust of thy feete and thou shalt knowe that I am the Lorde The Prophet meaneth that Kinges and Queenes shall be so carefull for the preseruation of the Churche that they shall thinke no seruice too base for them so they maye profite the Churche of Christe withall Vnto this honorable subiection the holie ghost exhorteth Princes in the second Psalme after that they haue tried that they preuayle nothing in striuing against the kingdome of Christe Bee nowe therefore wise O yee Kinges bee learned that iudge the earth serue the Lorde with feare and reioyce to him with trembling declaring that it is a ioyfull
might full easelie be deceiued Doe they not rather seeke their owne hurt trouble and ouerthrowe Not wittingly I thinke and yet they may seeke it and finde it too as some of them haue done and haue now leisure enough to repent them of it But if some of them seeke it not there is a shrewde likelihoode that some other doe seeke hereby their owne profite ease and aduauncement a little or rather a great deale too much with the hinderaunce disquiet and spoyle of many others And would GOD if they also seeke not these things that they were not the instruments vnto others that doe seeke them But if they seeke not these things what seeke they then For soothe but onely the glorie of GOD and the profite of his Church Still the glorie of God and the profite of his Church must carie the name Prooue it to be so and there an end But what stand we seeking what they seeke If they seeke Gods glorie why doe they thus open the mouthes of the aduersaries to deface the glorie of God and discredite his Gospell by these vnnecessarie dissentions If they seeke the profite of his Church what greater hinderance to the Church can they offer than thus to breake the vnitie and deuide the force thereof Than thus to cast abroade to the wide world to the deadly enemies these bitter defacings and sharpe oppugnings of the same Church whereof their selues professe to bee the parts and members Than thus to wound the weake Bretheren that stande betweene vs and make many that were comming on to start backe and that were among vs to fall from vs yea to discourage the hearts of the strongest of vs yea to reproach all the Bishoppes and Prelats of the Church with all despites yea to disarme their most gracious Soueraigne and bereaue her of the best parte of her supreme authoritie and to expose her Maiestie to all daungers of her estate besides those that the Papistes practise agaynst her person yea to innouate and turquish all the whole state of both the Realmes of England and Ireland the very Parishes and all must bee newe transformed While in the meane tyme the professed enemie lyeth houering for the aduauntage of all occasions doe euen drawe and whet their swordes to sheath them in the bowelles of vs all except the liuing God through his mightie power and superabundant mercie did euen myraculously defend vs from them So that If the Lord had not bin on our side may Israell now say if the Lord had not bin on our side when men rose vp agaynst vs they had then swallowed vs vp quicke when their wrath was kindled agaynst vs. Nay when our owne wrath is not yet slaked against our owne selues And is this to seeke the glorie of God and the profite of his Church that our Bretheren say they seeke onely But if they seeke indeede Gods glorie and the profite of his Church let them reclayme and leaue off all these euill practices and if all things bee not as they would haue them yet remembring what in common together we haue which is the principall and which the common aduersarie seeketh most of all to take either it from vs or vs from it and the roring Lyon goeth a pace about seeking how he may deuoure vs all let vs both without disturbance of the present state ioyne our selues together and vnite all our forces agaynst the publike enemie of vs both especially of Gods truth till that after we shall be out of all daunger of that man of sinne that great aduersarie and his confederates we may parlie of these matters more brotherlike And then the whole world might plainly see and say that there were more likelihood our Bretheren did only seeke the glorie of God and profite of his Church as they protest they doe Yea where we make our enemies now to laugh and leape for ioye and our selues to weepe and fall for sorrowe Then should our mouth bee filled with laughter and our tongue with ioye yea then would they say with greefe or admiration among the heathen the Lord hath done great things for them and our selues confesse with ioy and thankfulnesse the Lord hath done great things for vs whereof we reioyce But if our Br. will not seeke Gods glorie his Churches profite in such order as they ought tâ— seeke it but thus vnorderly although they seeke it only and nothing els yet seeke they neuer so much they shal neuer finde it But as they protest that these are the things which they onely seeke so by this present writing say they we discharge our coÌ„science according to our dutie which is to shew vnto al men the true way of reformation That this is the true way of reformation is not yet prooued in all this learned discourse They tolde vs they are able to prooue it and they promised also that they will proue many things hereafter when occasion shall serue their turne But if this forme of theirs were as they imagin vaunt the true way of reformation what and is this the true way of reformation too and the discharge of their conscience and according to their dutie to shewe it to all men and that in this maner I speake it not so much for putting it in writing for so it might well be done with more aduisement and be better conceiued and all times the readier to be perused and pondered of those that should haue to consider the same and their selues with lesse ambiguities alterings and tergiuersations be more streightly bound to iustifie their writing nor only for vaunting their selues of that they had written to be such a profound peece of worke such a learned discourse for that might be or seeme but an ouerliking of their owne babie and proceede of too good an opinion of thâ—ir owne learning But when they pester their writing with such reproches to other their Br. and that in authoritie when they enter into matter of state yea deale withal states and with publike gouernment and will shew such matters vnto all men that concerne not all men but is aboue many mens callings to intermeddle in them especially to alter the lawes established and the powers of so many persons setting vp as they say newe Lords newe lawes newe Doctors newe Bishops new Gouernors new Deacons new Segniories new Synods new authorities new Parishes and remoue al the old or new transpose them yea bring in a newe supremacie of the Prince also with the olde authoritie halfe clipt away and to put all these in print the more to shew this present writing to al men as who say Be it knowne to al men by this present writing yea by this present printing and to doe al this without any authoritie or license or knowledge of the Magistrate yea agaynst the Magistrate too if this bee the discharge of their conscience and according to their duetie being subiects being priuate