Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	heathen_a	let_v	publican_n	2,742	5	10.9981	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A11509	An apology, or, apologiticall answere, made by Father Paule a Venetian, of the order of Serui, vnto the exceptions and obiections of Cardinall Bellarmine, against certaine treatises and resolutions of Iohn Gerson, concerning the force and validitie of excommunication. First published in Italian, and now translated into English. Seene and allowed by publicke authoritie; Apologia per le oppositioni fatte dall' illustrissimo & reverendissimo signor cardinale Bellarminio alli trattati, et risolutioni di Gio. Gersone. English	Sarpi, Paolo, 1552-1623.	1607 (1607)	STC 21757; ESTC S116732	122,825	141

giue him the seat c. and hee shall raigne for euer This is that you chose not me but I chose you This is the kingdome in the Apocalips and thou hast made vs to our God a kingdom This Christ is the Father of the family who is owner of it and it his child and seruant Which for that it is composed of visible men the Father himselfe would that it should bee gouerned also by a man visible and hath appointed the authority which hee should haue and instituted one of them before the Church was founded but for the residue of time after it was founded hath left on earth the power to choose a successour Now with this doctrine which I am assured the author will admit yea rather will say that without it no man is Catholique the reason is answered that the Church is not a commonwealth as Venice or as Geneua which giue as much authority as themselues please to their Duke nor a kingdom which may chaunge the manner of gouerning it neither inuisibly nor visibly because that Christ hath prescribed the manner much lesse is it such a kingdom as France which hath a bloud royall where the Kings succeede by birth neither as some other by testament but as touching the inward gouernment and meerely spirituall it is not like vnto any because it hath a perpetuall and immortall King In the visible gouernment it hath a Minister as concerning his authority instituted by Christ and vndepending of the Church as concerning the application of the authority to the person electiue and depending of it Wherefore when he alledgeth and I am constituted a King by him Our Lord God shall giue him you chose not me Thou hast made vs to our God a kingdome All these places and such like others are meant of the inuisible kingdom the spirituall interior where the Pope hath no gouernment at all but onely the Sauiour which knoweth the hearts and can inflowe into them and bestow on them the graces and guifts whereby they are made Citizens of the heauenly Ierusalem Christ also is that Father of the family which depēds not of it The high Bishop is a seruant ●et ouer the family by the Fathers therof in respect of the authority but which the family it selfe hath placed ouer it selfe in respect of the election of the person So as touching the authority it is from Christ as touching the application it is from the Church But the Author maketh the Church a family depending of the Father whom he acknowledgeth to be Christ and this beeing setled hee concludeth that the Father doth not depend of the family nor hath his authority from it Therefore the Pope cannot be subiect to the Church and passeth frō the father of the family which is Christ to the steward elected by the family it selfe which is the Pope Let him stand firme in the similitude for he shal neuer find in the Gospell that any other is called father of the family but God the father or else Christ his Son by nature The minister is a seruant it is not fit to attribute the proprietie of God to another For which cause the example serues meruailously for Gerson as also the example which the author brings of a Vice-roy is much for the same purpose If a King of France as S Lewis the 9. should go to the conquest of the holy land shold say to the kingdome I leaue you my cosin for Viceroy with authority to administer iustice but not to make lawes not to assemble the states c. and in case he happen to faile choose ye another in his place with the same authority the authority of the elected should be from the King and master the person which the kingdome should choose should be subiect to the kingdom This is that which Gerson teacheth throughout all his works where it is seene that verily the force of the reason concludeth for him Out of the things abouesaid I will not conclude that the opinion of Gerson in this point of the supreame power Ecclesiastical either is true or is false but onely that the authors conclusion that Gerson is deceiued and that he is deceiued that doth follow him and goeth contrary to the doctrine of the holy scriptures of the sacred Councels and of manifest reason hath need of other proofes then those abouesaide The Author proceedeth Bellarmine And if he should say that which Gerson himselfe wont to say that it is written in Saint Mathew in the 18. chapter tell the Church And if hee will not heare the Church let him bee to thee as the Heathen and the Publican I would answere that in that place by the Church is ment the Prelate who is the head of the Church and so doth Saint Iohn Chrysostom expound it Homilia 61. in Mathew and Pope Innocent 3. cap. Nouit de iudiciis and so doth the practize of the vniuersall Church of all the world and of all times declare that he who will denounce a sinner to the Church and obserue this precept doth not assemble a Councell but hath recourse to the Bishop or to his vicar It is not sufficient to the Author to haue disputed with Gerson but he also giues solution to his reasons But in this place of many which Gerson bringeth and deduceth Frier Paolo the author contenteth himselfe to produce one onely and to dissolue it And this is taken from the authority of Saint Mathew tell the Church vnto which hee answereth the Church that is the Prelate and of this exposition hee maketh Chrysostome the author although the Parisians say that Chrysostom doth not say so but it seemes when a thing is accustomed to bee alleadged euery man alleadgeth it without once viewing it Chrysostome expoundeth tell the Church namely the Bishoppes and Praefidents This is that which Gerson saith to the Church representatiuely because it being not possible to assemble the whole it be comes represented by the assembly of Bishops and Praesidents And therefore they adde that vnder the name of the Church their cannot bee ment one person For in vaine should that ensue If two of you shall consent vpon earth concerning euery thing whatsoeuer they shall aske it shall bee done to them of my Father which is in heauen For where there bee two or three gathered in my name there am I in the midst of them And for confirmation of this sense they bring that Saint Paul who receiued the information against the incestuous there is plainely heard fornication among you c. It followeth I indeede absent in body but present in spirit haue already iudged as present him that hath so doone in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ you beeing gathered together and my spirit with the vertue of our Lord Iesus to deliuer such an one to Satan Where they note that Saint Paul who was then in Philippi did not write by his Briefe I excomunicate such an one but wrote to the Church that beeing

hath it many limitations For the force must be vniust and such as hath no redresse but by force the resistance must be immediate and other things as Silvester sheweth Verb. Bellum 2. and the other Doctors which handle this matter And therefore if it be not applyed to certaine particulars with greate discretion it is cause of exceeding greate disorders When the Sergeants arrest a man and binde his hands no question they offer him violence and yet it is not lawfull for him to vse violence against the Sergeants vnder pretext that violence may with violence be resisted Semblably when the Gally-Slaues are tyed to the bench of the Gally and with many a sharpe stroake are constrained to rowe who doubts but that great violence is vsed towards thē yet notwitstanding no man of iudgment wil say that it is lawfull for them vnder the same pretence to offer violence to the Comito Likewise when one is forced by his superior eyther Ecclesiasticall or Secular to make restitution to another of his goods or of his good name or to keep faith his promises it cannot be saide that he who so is forced may resist with force turn himself against his superior and to passe ouer infinite other examples whē somtimes the Magistrates or Princes impose burthens vpon the people and constraine them to pay them I trowe they would not be pleased that any should teach the people to raise rebellion vnder colour that vim vi repellere licet And what great confusion would there be in houses and in citties and in kingdomes if to euery force force might bee opposed with saying that it is lawfull by naturall reason to make resistance with violence to violence But if we speake of the force which Prelates do vse when by the censures they constraine their subjects to obey certaine it is that it is not lawfull to make resistance with force For if he who will not heare the church ought to be vnto vs according to the commaundement of the Lord as a Gentile and Publican certainely he who with force will resist the church ought to be vnto vs worse then Gentile Publican And as for recourse to secular Princes in matter of excommunication the sacred councell of Trent hath already prouided expresly Ses 25. cap 3. forbidding Secular Princes that they hinder not Prelats so that they may not excommunicate neither commaund that the excommunicationes already gone forth be reuoked considering that this is no part of their office Lastly if wee come to the businesse which is at this day in hand it is beside all purpose to produce that principle vim vi repellere licet For the force which our Lord vseth to the common wealth of Venice is a fatherly and iust force conforming to the scriptures and sacred canons vsed in all times by the Prelats of holy church and the remedie is plaine and ready without recourse to force or to help of Princes namely Obedience and Humility without which all other remedy is vaine In the tenth consideration Frier Paolo if to say that to the force of pretēded sentences resistance may by law of nature be made by force bee a doctrine pernicious then hath Cardinall Bellarmine taught a pe●nicious doctrine in his booke of the Bishop of Rome which wee haue before alledged where with most cleare words he doth establish this sentence And of the selfesame perniciousnes are the Cardinals Turrceremata and Ca●tane authors alledged by him and Domimcus Soco and Franciscus Victorius and other moderne writers innumerable who following one another confirme this Sentence And it is not true that infinite scandals may grow out of this doctrine nay rather it shall be said that out of the contrary they would arise indeed for so should Tirany be brought into the church which as a publicke fault is more pernicious Euen as no more true is it that by this doctrine there wold grow confusiōs in houses and citties because euery one might defend himself from the Sergeants from the Comito in Gallies and from the Prin●e which causeth them to pay impositions For two which striue together cannot both haue right on their sides but neades must it bee that if he which vseth force do it lawfully the defence be vnlawfull and where the defence is lawfull the force must needs be vnlawfull The Author knoweth very well though here he dissemble it that when the law saith vim vi repellere licit it meaneth of that force which is vniustly vsed And therfore the vniuersal is not true which he draweth when he saith if to euery force force might be opposed neither the law nor Gerson nor any man else hauing said that all force may be by force resisted The consequence therefore of the Sergiants and of the Cometo and of the Prince who leuyeth iust impositions doth not follow neither that of the magistrate who condemneth to restitution of goods or good name or to keep his promises because these are lawfull forces The consequence which he deduceth of the force which the Ecclesiasticall vseth is well to the purpose when he intermedleth in causing to make restitutiō of goods good name or performing of promises which are thinges appertaining to the Seculare in which the Ecclesiasticall hath not to intrude himselfe saue onely in foro paenitentiae in auricular confession But whenas the author saith that if wee speake of the force which Prelates do vse when by the Censures they constraine their subiects to obay certaine it is that it is not lawfull to make resistance with force For if he who will not obey the Church ought to be as a Gentile and Publican so much worse he that will make resistance with force here he speaketh either vniuersally of all censures comprizing also those which are not of validitie or else only of those which haue validitie If he speake of all and it be the Authors meaning that to make resistance to Censures which are nul be worse then to be a Gentile it is a doctrine absurd false erronious and contrary to the law of nature and to the doctrine of the foresaid Cardinalles and of Bellarmine himselfe but if he meane of them onely which haue validitie it is exceding good doctrine and not contrarie to Gerson yea rather confirmed by him For Gerson in the consideration speaketh of pretensed censures which are not iuridicall but violences if any assemby pronounce forth such it is not called together in the name of Christ neither is Christ there present and he that doth not heare it is a good Christian so teach the Canons which are cited by Gratian. 11. Quest 3. Of the Church of God which cannot erre it is alwaies true that hee is to be reckoned for a Gentile that doth not heare it and he worse that shall resist it because the defence will bee vniust against so iust a precept considering that it neuer deliuers other wordes then the word of Christ But if by the Church be