Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	heathen_a	let_v	publican_n	2,742	5	10.9981	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09287	Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ...	Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641.	1626 (1626)	STC 1960; ESTC S101681	240,340	338

Bishops with the Councell at Chalcedon of 630. Bishops gaue to the See of Constantinople equall priuiledge with Rome But in these things say the Papists the Councels erred therefore in some things generall Councels may erre euen in that point which to the Papists is most fundamentall being the very soule and essence of Popery in that part which consisteth in vsurpation and tyrannous dominion ouer all other Churches The Scriptures obiected answered Esay 59. 21. This is my Couenant with them My Spirit that is vpon thee and my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seedes seede saith the Lord from henceforth and for euer Answ 1. I answere that the Prophet speakes here of Gods Couenant with them that is with those that turne from transgression in Iacob and so of the faithfull and elect and not of the Church visible of which we speake II. Here is no promise that the Church shall not erre but that he will bestow on them which exercise the Ministery his Spirit and his Word continually for the Churches good III. If he will needs hence conclude that the Church cannot erre 1. He must proue that the Teachers doe euer teach the truth by Gods Spirit and by Gods Word which are to go together Ioh. 14. 26. and 16. 13. Mat. 18. 19 20. 2. That the hearers the members of the Church doe euer receiue beleeue and follow their Teachers thus teaching by the Word and holy Spirit which two things rest for him to make good ad Graecas Calendas IV. This promise made must needs be vnderstood conditionally of the visible Church and of an ordinary Ministery for Esay tells vs afterwords how they vexed Gods Spirit chap. 63. 10. We see how the Church of the Israelites and that at Ierusalem hath been cast off of God and hath now neither Word nor Spirit of God to direct it Christ found her Teachers in his time full of errors as they grieuously erred before 2. King 16. 11. 2. Chron. 36. 14 16. Esay 56. 10. Ier. 5. 1. Mal. 2. 8. And we know by experience in our times and by faithfull relation aforetimes that Teachers haue erred and people haue not euer embraced the truth when sound Teachers haue deliuered it let Christs hearers be instance for all and those in Iury which heard the Apostles V. If this were a good argument where Gods Spirit and his Word is there can be no errour then would it follow that no ordinary member of Christ should euer erre for such a one hath Gods Spirit 1. Ioh. 2. 20 27. Rom. 8. 9. 2. Cor. 1. 21. and his Word Deut. 33. 3. by which they become beleeuers Ioh. 17. 20. But this I hope a Papist will not grant and yet the argument is the same Ioh. 14. 16. I will pray the Father and he shall giue you another Comforter that he may abide with you for euer euen the Spirit of truth Answ 1. This place is primarily to be vnderstood of the Apostles to whom the promise of guiding into all truth was a speciall priuiledge Mat. 10. 20. Ioh. 14. 26. and 16. 13. 2. Of the succeeding Teachers but with no such speciall priuiledge for first there are no such promises made to them Secondly experience teacheth that they haue wanted this priuiledge Thirdly the hearers haue libertie to search and trie that which is deliuered if they doubt 1. Thes 5. 21. 1. Ioh. 4. 1. Ioh. 5. 39. Act. 17. 11. Waldensis one of their owne side saith Li. 2. ca. 19. de Doct. sid of particular Pastors and Bishops We know that these haue often erred 3. Neither the abiding of the Spirit for euer where it is nor the title of Spirit of truth will enforce euer an infallibility in teaching for it is called the Spirit of sanctification or holinesse Rom. 1. 4. for that he worketh in vs holinesse and is euer abiding in the godly who are the Temple of the holy Ghost and yet are they not so sanctified but they often offend in life So is it the Spirit of truth because it enlightneth the minds of men with onely that which is truth and guideth them in the truth if they follow their guide but if they doe not they may yea and doe erre from the truth Mat. 18. 17. If he neglect to heare the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican Answ 1. This is meant of an euident case proued by witnesses before the Church in matters of offence betweene one priuate man and another wherein the Church may giue right sentence if she will yet we see such as meddle in the Churches censures doe not euer proceede aright This place therefore is not to the matter of doctrine and determination of faith the point in question neither doth it proue that in her censure the Church cannot erre for saith their owne Panormitan as before is cited A generall Councell representing the whole Church may erre in excommunicating him that should not be excommunicate These words speake not of the Churches either not erring or erring but of other hearing the Church and how they should carry themselues towards such as will not in so cleare a case heare the Churches admonition 3. It s not here commanded that he should be held as a Heathen and Publican that would not heare the Church in whatsoeuer she saith for Christ here speakes of the Iewish Church then as appeareth by the name Heathen and Publican which were abhorred of the Iewish Church Now that Church wee reade did excommunicate a blind man which receiued sight for his professing of Christ Ioh. 9. 34. and had agreed to put any man out of the Synagogue which should confesse Iesus to bee Christ v 22. and did also forbid to teach in his name Act. 4. 18. 4. This place is spoken of some Ecclesiasticall Gouernours if it be extended to vs hauing the power of censures in a particular Church which the Learned in their Church doe confesse may erre and therefore this helpes not to proue that the Church cannot erre Esay 35. 8. And a high way shall be there and away and it shall be called The way of holinesse the vncleane shall not passe ouer it but it shall be for those the way-faring men though fooles shall not erre therein Answ I. This verse is wholly allegoricall and therfore cannot so well be inforced for dogmaticall proofe without a full explanation of the words which the Gagger should haue done II. It is altogether against himselfe in the exposition if hee either durst or had been able to haue set it downe for by high-way may be vnderstood the common profession or points of Religion for good and bad as the high-way is for all then the way of holinesse is taken for a more strict profession or more straight Rules of Religion If so then consider the persons who they bee that shall not

God is not euer visibly glorious And this is manifest if we consider the estate thereof in the time of the Arian Emperours the world almost being turned Arian as S. Hierome complaineth Gainesaid by some of themselues Alex. Hales part 3. q. vlt. num 5. Art 2. saith that about the time of Christs passion the true faith remained in none but in the Virgin Marie So Durand Rat. lib. 6. cap. 72. num 25. So Panormit de elect elect potest cap. sanctificasti So Turrecramat de Consecrat d. 2. semel Christus Num. 4. It was a poore visibilitie then farre from glorious conspicuousnesse Many Papists write of a miserable estate of the Church in the time of Antichrist that the Masse shall be celebrated in few places and verie priuately in caues and secret places yea perhaps the Pope shall then professe his faith in secret See for these things Pererius on Daniel pag. 714. Ouandus in Breuiloqu in 4 sent D. 18. prop. 3. pag. 602. Suarez lib. 5. Contr. sect Angli cap. 21. Acosta de Temp. nouis lib. 2. cap. 15. Rhem. on 2 Thess 2. 3. All these speake of the Churches almost vtter ex●●pation See more testimonies of Occam Caietan Maluenda Barradius and others in D. Whites Reply to Fisher pag. 77. This they do meane of their Romish Church-Seruice Masse and Religion which I pray God to hasten and make them true Prognosticators of their owne downefall and ruine Amen Amen But that Romish Antichrist hath played his part against the true Church alreadie as is foretold in 2. Thess 2. Reu. 9. and 11. and 12. and 13. which these men cannot or will not see being made drunke with that whores cup of her fornication The Scriptures obiected answered Mat. 5. 14. Yet are the Light of the World a Citie set on a hill cannot be hidden Neither doe men light a Candle and put it vnder a Bushell but on a candlesticke and it giueth light to all that are in the house Answ This place doth not proue the Church visible or vnhidden at all times and to all the successiue perpetuall Church is not expressed nor intended for Christ spake this to and of his Disciples then So Chrysostome taketh it and yet euen they In Psal 38. when they fled from Christ were hidden for a time But here is a threefold similitude by which our Aduersaries go about to proue the euer-glorious visibilitie of the Church 1. From the word light yee are the light of the World What light is there in nature which is alwaies seene The very Sunnes light is not so in the same place for it goeth downe at night and in the day-time it is often beclouded and at some times eclipsed neither doe all see it though it shine forth for the blind man cannot he that is a sleepe or winketh doth not and they that are out of the Horizon cannot So then let the Church be the Sunnes light yet shee therefore cannot bee proued to bee euer gloriously visible to all euery where when the estate of the Church shall bee as is said in Reuel 6. 12. the Sunne being blacke as Sackcloth and in Chap. 9. 2. the Sunne and Aire darkened with the smoke comming out of the bottomlesse pit Epist 80. ad H●sych 48. ad Vincent then saith Saint Augustine the Church shall not appeare 2. From a Citie set vpon an Hill which cannot be hid true totally and finally to all and euery one at all times for so wee say the Church cannot be hid but such as truly seek● vnto her and in sinceritie desire to see her shall come to the sight of her But yet a Citie set on an hill is euer hidden to those that want sight to such as be farre off from it to such as be neere to it is it sometime hidden when foggie mists arise and hinder the sight This simily therefore proueth not a perpetuall visibilitie of the Church 3. From the Candle on a candlesticke but the candle often burneth dimly and needeth snuffers to snuffe it Againe it lightneth onely those that haue eyes to see and haue their eyes open to see else it doth not giue them light Thirdly it giueth light onely to them that are in the house to wit in the same roome but not to other in another roome in the same house if a wall bee betweene them Wee see then that these similies doe not expressely prooue a continuall cleare visibilitie of the Church Mat. 18. 17. Tell the Church if he neglect to heare the Church let him be to thee as a Heathen Answ This place the Gagger alleageth before for to prooue that the Church could not erre and now that she is euer gloriously visible yet here are no expresse words nor direct intent of her visibility or hiding 1. Christ here did speake of the Iewish Church then which was not the Catholike but a particular Church visible 2. If applied to vs it cannot bee meant of the Catholike Church for that cannot bee seene with our eyes but beleeued neither if it could be seene can she bee gathered into one place to heare priuate causes as is here meant 3. This therefore being vnderstood of a particular Church as it needes must and that also of the onely Ecclesiasticall Gouerners therein what is this to proue the visibility of the whole Church 4. This telling of the Church may be done by such as be of her when she is in the wildernesse seene to her owne and not to the world euen where onely two or three be gathered together in Christs Name to heare such complaints Vers 19 20. 2. Cor. 4. 3. If our Gospell bee hid it is hid to them that are lost Answ Here is no word of the Church but the wise Gagger taketh the Gospell and the Church for one and the same If so then the place is flat against himselfe for hee saith that the Church cannot be hid but Saint Paul saith the Gospell may to them that are lost blinded by Satan and doe not beleeue and therefore the Church may bee hid if it and the Gospell bee one Esay 2. 2. And it shall come to passe in the last dayes that the Mountaine of the Lords House shall be established in the top of the Mountaines and shall be exalted aboue all the Hilles and all Nations shall flow vnto it Answ They expound this and that of Mich. 4. 7. Dan. 7. 14. of Christs Kingdome which they will haue to be sensibly and corporally visible when it is altogether spirituall This spirituall Kingdome is not a visible Mountaine which the Nations with their bodily eyes flow vnto but with the eyes of their mind But they obiect and say that a Prophecie must bee of things which may bee seene and perceiued by our senses But who euer saw with his corporall sense any such thing as is here foretold Who euer saw men beate their swords into plow-shares their speares into pruning-hookes Vers 4. Whose sense euer saw the