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A00639 A defence of the reasons of the counter-poyson, for maintenance of the eldership against an aunsvvere made to them by Doctor Copequot, in a publike sermon at Pawles Crosse, vpon Psal. 84. 1584. VVherein also according to his demaunde is proued syllogisticallie for the learned, and plainlie for all men, the perpetuitie of the elders office in the church. Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name. 1586 (1586) STC 10772; ESTC S112582 18,117 32

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accusations their iust rebuke their carefull ordination are set downe as common to both sortes though as in the first of honor so in the rest the teaching Elders are especially to bee regarded Lastly they can finde no cōmandement reason or other groūd in the scripture why the Pastor in his place shuld be perpetual but we will bring the like for the Elder in his One is more necessarie wee graunt but not more perpetuall then another as the eye or the tongue or the hand is more necessarie thē the foote the right ones more then the left yet alike ordinarie perpetual These are our reasons to proue thē perpetual which being set down for the vnlearned more grosely we will also set thē down with some other in syllogismes that he may the better deale with them out of Rom. 12. No mēbers of Christes body hauing actions for the profit of the whole may be thrust out or put to an ende by any humane authoritie The Elders and Deacons are such members Rom. 12.4 8. Ergo Al offices whose giftes and proper actions are ordinarie and of perpetuall vse they are perpetuall The offices of Elders Deacons ar such as whose giftes of abilitie to gouerne distribut actions of distribution and gouernement are perpetuall by their owne graunt Ergo They are offices perpetual Out of the 1. Cor. 12.28 No offices whiche God hath once set in his Church may be put to an ende by humane authoritie But the offices of Elders Deacons haue bin once set in the Church by God Ergo they may not bee putt to an ende and consequently are perpetuall Whatsoeuer offices haue the same cause of continuance are alike perpetuall though not alike excellent The office of teachers of church gouernors Deacons haue the same cause as the ordināce of god the cōtinuāce of their gifts of power of the church to cal thē 1. Cor. 12 Rō 12. Ergo they are alike perpetuall Whatsoeuer haue the like cause of ceasing and remayninge the cause of remayning being continued they remayne as the cause being ceased they cease But the offices of Church gouernors Deacons with the offices of Apostles workers of miracles haue the like cause of ceasing remaining to Wit the wil ordināce of God in continuing the giftes and the ordinarie and mediat calling of the Church for the one and his will in withholding the extraordinarie giftes and immediat calling of the other Ergo they do by the like cause remaine that the other are takē away Whatsoeuer haue the same general cōmādement and rules of examination traill ordination abdication honor reprose without speciall exemptiō for any are alike perpetual But the offices of teaching and vnteaching Elders and of Deacons haue the same generall commandement c. 1. Ti. 5.3 10. 1. Tim. 5.17.18 c. Ergo they are alike perpetuall Whatsoeuer offices are necessarie in euerie cōgregation for Discipline after the seconde priuate admonition they are perpetuall otherwise the remedie Christ hath appointed for sinners is not perpetuall But an assemblie of Gouernours in expresse wordes of Christ are necessarie in euery cōgregation for Discipline after the seconde priuat admonition Mat. 18.17 Ergo such an assemblie is perpetuall Whatsoeuer offices were ordeined for ordinarie and perpetuall gouernement of the Church vnder the lawe hauing continued frō Moses to Christ haue as the other offices of teaching exhorting bin newly increased and augmented by Christe to the Church vnder the Gospell those are perpetuall because there can be no cause so great found of altering offices of ordinarie giftes and vse since Christ as was betwene Christ and Moses But the office of gouerning Elders adioyned to Teachers and exhorters are such Ergo the assumption is proued by these places Leuit. 4.13 14 15. Where the Elders as bearing the person and sins of the whole congregation are distinguished from the Priest the Magistrate Iere. 19.1 Where the ciuill and ecclesiasticall Elders are distinguished 2. Chron. 19.8.11 Where for the matters of God to the Priestes and teaching Leuites are adioyned Elders Hesr 10.8 Where the counsell of the Elders for excommunication is ioyned though distinguished from it with the counsell and decree of the Princes touching confiscation of goods Nehem. 8.5.8 Where the Elders in gouerning the Assemblie are distinguished from the Priestes and teachinge Leuites For counsell they are adioyned euen with the Prophetes 2. Reg. 6.32 Out of the newe Testament the places are pregnant and many Act. 4.5 6.12 5.21 Act. 13 15. 18.8 So that this proueth the ordinance and continuance of them from Moses to Christ That Christ cōtinued them and augmented them with giftes as he did the offices of teaching and exhortinge the place of Mat. 18. Tell the assembly and if he heare no● it lette him bee a Heathen and publicane doth proue it for by vsing expresse wordes proper to that order of theirs hee doeth manifestly establishe it The places whiche haue proued them ordeyned in the Church proue this point also Lastly them selues graunt Christe ordeyned such only they denie them to be perpetuall Nowe if they demande humane witnes what can they haue more cleare then that Ignatius who as they say was S. Ihons Scoller writing to seuen Churches in euerie Epistle speaking only of such offices as were ordinarie and perpetuall Bishopps Elders and Deacons doeth say as hath bin alledged that No Church can be without her Eldership And least any man should say he ment teaching Elders Lette them marke that hee defineth their office to be a Senate of Counselers and assistants to the Bishoppe in euery Church ouer which Bishop he acknowledgeth no Church-officer but Christ without which Bishop it is not lawfull to administer the Communion Baptisme or performe any action in the Assemblie His wordes are these· What is the Eldership but a holy Senat the Counsellers and assistantes of the Bishop And a little before The Elders are as the Senat of God and the hande and sinewe of the Apostles of Christ without these the elect Church is not no Congregation of Saintes without these Epist 2. ad Tralles Here the office is defined as consisting onely in gouernement That in the Sacramentes they might only assist the Bishop and not administer them or doo any publike action is manifest by these wordes It is not lawfull with out a Bishop eyther to Baptize or to offer or to prepare the offring in the Communion or perfect the gifte or distribution but that which seemeth good to him according to the good pleasure of God that what soeuer you doo may be safe and sure Ignat. Epist 2. ad Smyrnaeos and in the same Epistle Therefore let all things be done of you according to good order in Christ Let the laye men be subiect to the Deacons the Deacons to the Elders the Elders to the Bishop the Bishop to Christ as he to his Father In the time of Cyprian they remayned Ambrose when they