left them to be guided as we have said So that it is no impeachment of his Laws as insufficient to make Laws for determining those particulars of decency which himself did not as is plain by his Precepts intend to determine but left us Governours for that purpose to whom he said As my Father sent me even so send I you and let all things be done decently and in order of whom he hath said to us Obey those that have the over sight over you and told us that if we will not hear his Church we must not be accounted as Christians but Heathens and Publicans And yet nevertheless they will not hear it and obey it in so small a matter as a circumstance of time place habit or the like which she thinks decent and fit and yet will be accounted for the best Christians and tell us that it is the very awe of Gods Law Deut. 12. 32. that keeps them from obedience to the Church in these commands not well considering that it cannot be any adding to the Word of God to command things for order and decency which the Word of God commands to be done so as they be not commanded as Gods immediate Word but as the Laws of men but that it is undenyably adding to the Word of God to say that Superiours may not command such things which God hath no where forbidden and taking from the Word of God to deny that power to men which Gods Word hath forgiven them Repl. To make Laws to determine of undetermined circumstances necessary in genere to be some way determined and left to Magistrates or Ministers de specie and to do this according to the general rules of Scripture and in order to the main end and not against it and is not against the Royalty or will of Christ But to make new dedicating covenanting Symboles to signify the doctrine of the Covenant of Grace and solemnly ingage us unto God and place those in the publick worship which are not meet Circumstances but substantial institutions not necessary in genere that there should be any such at all besides Gods Sacraments we fear this is a violation of the Royalty of Christ and a reflection on his Laws as insufficient for first if it belong to the power proper to Christ then it is a violation of his Royalty for any man to exercise it But it belongeth to the power proper to Christ ergo c. The minor is proved thus If it belong to the universal head or Ruler of the Church as such then it belongs to the power proper to Christ for we are ready to prove there is none under him no universal head or ruler personally or collectively and civilly one But c. If in the reason of it it should be the matter of an universal Law if of any then it should be the work of the universal Lawgiver if any But c. If in the reason of it it be equally useful to the Church universal as to any particular Church or age then it should according to the reason of it be the matter of an universal Law if of any But c. it hath the same aptitude to engage us to a duty of universal necessity and hath no reason proper to this age or place for it but common to all Moreover it is no where committed to the power or care of man ergo it is proper to the care and power of Christ no Text is shewed that giveth man power in such things To do all things decently and orderly and to edification is no giving of power on that pretence to make new Covenanting dedicating signes to do Gods work decently c. is not to make more such of our own heads It is but the right modifying of the work already set us And to do all decently orderly and to edification was a duty in Moses time when yet such things as these in question might not be added by any but God when we say by God we mean by his inspired Instruments and when we say by Christ we mean by his inspired Instruments If we should make Laws that every one is publickly to tast Vinegar and Gall as a sign that we are not ashamed of but resolved through all flesh displeasing difficulties to follow Christ that died so and thus to engage and dedicate our selves to him this were to do more then to do all things decently and orderly which he appointed If milk were to be publickly sucked or drunk by all in profession that we will feed on the sincere milk of his word and so dedicate us to him by Covenant or if we were to put on an Helmet other Armour in token that we will be his Souldiers to the death and manfully fight under c. These engagements by such publick signs are Sacraments in the sense as the word was used of old when it signified a Souldiers solemn lysting or Covenanting with his Commander Thus by distinguishing decent and orderly modes and Circumstances necessary in genere from new ordinances even solemn dedicating covenanting or such like mystical signs we have shewed you what we grant and where you fail and what is indeed a wrong to Christ and an accusation of his Laws and what not and how unjust your following accusation of us is who never yet told you we would be accounted the best Christians but to desire to please Christ as near as we can is not blame worthy Abundance of things of lesser moment than these are commanded by God in the Law to which he added that sanction Deut 12. 32. What ever things I command thee c. And we conceive that the words as my Father sent me so c. had some what proper to the extraordinary mission and if he hear not the Church c. is neither spoken of a Church universal nor of Magistrates making Laws for such Ceremonies or signs But if he hear not the Church with which he was in Communion and which admonisheth him for his sin let the Church reject him from their Communion The command for decent Ceremonies may still continue in the Church notwithstanding the 12. of Deut. and so it may too for all the exceptions taken against them by sundry learned pious and Orthodox persons who have judged them they say unwarrantable And if Laws may be abrogated assoon as those that list not to obey will except against them the world must run into confusion But those that except are weak Brethren whom by Christs Precept and example we must not offend If by weak we understand ignorant they would take it ill to be so accounted and it is their own fault if they be there having been much written as may satisfy any that have a mind to be satisfied And as King James of blessed memory said at Hampton-Court If after so many years preaching of the Gospel there be any yet unsatisfied I doubt it proceeds rather out of stubbornesse of opinion than out of tendernesse
the Church in the purest and most Primitive Times we have in obedience to His Majesties Commission made Inquiry but cannot find any Records of known Credit concerning any entire Forms of Liturgies within the first 300 years which are confessed to be as the most Primitive so the purest Ages of the Church nor any Imposition of Liturgies upon any National Church for some hundred years after we find indeed Liturgical Forms fathered upon St. Basil St. Chrysostome and St. Ambrose but we have not seen any Copies of them but such as give us sufficient evidence to conclude them either wholly spurious or so interpolated that we cannot make a Judgement what in them hath any Primitive Authority Having thus in general expressed our desire we come to particulars which we find numerous and of a various nature some we grant are of an inferiour consideration verbal rather than material which were they not in she Publick Liturgy of so Famous a Church we should not have mentioned others dubions and disputable as not having a clear foundation in Scripture for their warrant but some there be that seem to be corrupt and to carry in them a repugnancy to the rule of the Gospel and therefore have administred just matter of exception and offence to many truly religious and peaceable not of a private station only but Learned Judicious Divines aswel of other Reformed Churches as of the Church of England ever since the Reformation We know much hath been spoken and written by way of Apology in answer to many things that have been obiected but yet the doubts and scuples of tender consciences still continue or rather are increased We do therefore humbly conceive it therefore a Work worthy of those Wonders of Salvation which God hath wrought for his Majesty now on the Throne and for the whole Kingdome and exceedingly becoming the Ministers of the Gospel of Peace with all holy moderation and tenderness to endeavour the removal of every thing out of the Worship of God which may justly offend or grieve the spirits of sober and godly people the things themselves that we desire to be removed not being of the foundation of Religion nor the Essentials of Publick Worship nor the removal of them any way tending to the prejudice of the Church or State therefore their continuance and rigorous Imposition can no ways be able to countervail the laying aside of so many pious and able Ministers and the unconceivable grief that will arise to multitudes of His Majesties most Loyal and peaceable Subjects who upon all accasions are ready to serve him with their Prayers Estates and Lives For the preventing of which evils we humbly desire that these particulars following may be taken into serious and tender consideration Concerning Morning and Evening Prayer 1. Rub. That Morning and Evening Prayer shall be used in the accustomed place of the Church Chancel or Chappel except it shall be otherwise determined by the Ordinary of the Place and the Chancel shall remain as in times past We desire that the words of the first Rub. may be expressed as in the Book established by Authority of Parliament 5 6 Edwardi 6. thus The Morning and Evening Prayer shall be used in such place of the Church Chappel or Chancel and the Minister shall so turn himself as the people may best hear and if there be any controversies therein the matter shall be referred to the Ordinary 2. Rub. And here it is to be noted that the Minister at the time of the Cimmunion and at other times in his ministration shall use such Ornaments in the Church as were in use by Authority of Parliament in the second year of the Reign of Edward the Sixth according to the Act of Parliament c. For as much as the Rubrick seemeth to bring back the Cope Albe and other vestments forbidden in the Common Prayer Book 5. 6. of Edw. 6. And for the reasons alledged against Ceremonies under our 18. general Exception we desire it may be wholly left out The Lords Prayer after the Absolution ends thus Deliver us from evill We desire that these Words For thine is the Kingdome the Power and the Glory for ever and ever Amen may be always added unto the Lords Prayer and that this Prayer may not be enjoyned to be so often used in the Morning and Evening Service And at the end of every Psalm throughout the year and likewise in the end of the Benedictus Benedicite magnificat c. Nunc Dimittis shall be repeated Glory be to the Father c. By this Rubrick and other places in the Common Prayer Book the Gloria Patri is appointed to be said six times ordinarily in every Morning and Evening Services frequently eight times in a Morning sometimes ten which we think carries with it at least an appearance of that vain repetition which Christ forbids for the avoiding of which appearance of evil we desire it may be used but once in the Morning and once in the Evening Rubr. In such places where they do sing there shall the Lessons be sung in a plain Tune and likewise the Epistle and Gospel Or this Canticle Benedicite omnia opera Except The Lessons and the Epistles and Gospels being for the most part neither Psalms nor Hymns we know no warrant why they should be sung in any place and conceive that the distinct reading of them with an audible voyce tends more to the edification of the Church We desire that some Psalm or Scripture Hymn may be appointed instead of that Apocryphal In the Letany From fornication and other deadly sins Except In regard that the wages of sin is death we desire that this clause may be thus altered From fornication and all other beynous or grievous sins From battle and murther and from sudden death Except Because this expression of sudden death hath been so often excepted against we desire if it be thought fit it may be thus read From battle and murther and from dying suddainly and unprepared That it may please thee to preserve all that travel by land and by water all women labouring with child all sick persons and young Children and to shew thy pity upon all prisoners and captives We desire that the term All may be advised upon as seeming liable to just exceptions and that it may be considered whether it may not better be put indefinitely those that travel c. rather then universally The Collect of Christmas day Almighty God which best given us thy only begotten son to take our nature upon him and this day to be born of a pure Virgin c The Rubrick Then shall follow the collect of the Nativity which shall be said continually unto New-years-day The Collect for VVhitsunday God which upon this day c. We desire that in both collects the words this day may be left out it being according to vulgar acceptation a contradiction Rubrick The same Collect to be read on Monday and Tuesday
let them be recited if not It is hard that this should even by you be thus affirmed as is sayd by us which we have not sayd We have sayd that the Ceremonies have been the Fountain of much evil occasioning divisions but not what you charge us to have sayd in words or sense 3. And may not you alter them without approving or seeming to approve the reason upon which the alteration is desired when you have so great store of other reasons The King in his Declaration is far enough from seeming to own the Charge against the things which he was pleased graciously to alter so far as is there exprest If a Patient have a conceit that some one thing would kill him if he took it the Physitian may well forbear him in that one thing when it is not necessary to his health without owning his reasons against it If his Majesty have Subjects so weak as to contend about things indifferent and if both sides err one thinking them necessary and the other sinful may he not gratifie either of them without seeming to reprove their errour By this reason of yours he is by other men in such a Case necessitated to sin For if he settle those things which some count necessary he seems to approve of their opinion that they are necessary If he take them down when others call them sinful he seems to own their charge of the sinfulness But indeed he needeth not to do either he may take them down or leave them indifferent professedly for unity and peace and professedly disown the Errors on both sides We are sorry if any did esteem these Forms and Ceremonies any better than mutable indifferent modes and circumstances of Worship and did hazard estate or life for them as any otherwise esteemed And we are sorry that by our Divisions the Adversary of Peace hath gotten so great an advantage against us as that the Argument against necessary charitable forberance is fetch'd from the interest of the reputation of the contending Parties that things may not be abated to others which you confess are indifferent and alterable and which many of them durst not use though to save their lives And this because it will make them thought the pious tender concienc'd men and make others thought worse of But with whom will it have these effects those that you call the generality of the sober loyal children of the Church will think never the worse of themselves because others have libertie to live by them without these things And the rest whose liberties you denie will think rather the worse of you than the better for denying them their libertie in the worshipping of God You undoubtedly argue here against the interest of Reputation which you stand for your Prefaces to your indulgencies and your open Professions and if you will needs have it so your own Practises will tell the World loud enough that the things which you adhered to with so great hazards are still lawfull in your Judgement and it will be your honour and add to your reputation to abate them to others when it is in your power to be more severe And if you refuse it their sufferings will tell the World loud enough that for their parts they still take them to be things unlawful As for the reasons by them produced to prove them sinfull they have been publickly made known in the writings of many of them In Ames his fresh sute against the Ceremonies and in the Abridgement c. and in Bradshaw's Nicols and other mens Writings To the first general Proposal we answer That as to that part of it which requires that the matter of the Liturgie may not be private opinion or fancy that being the way to perpetuate Schism the Church hath been carefull to put nothing into the Liturgie but that which is either evidently the Word of God or what hath been generally received in the Catholick Church neither of which can be called private opinion and if the contrary can be proved we wish it out of the Liturgie Reply We call those Opinions which are not determined Certainties and though the greater number should hold them as Opinions they are not therefore the Doctrines of the Church and therefore might be called Private Opinions but indeed we used not the Word that we can find the thing we desired was that the materials of the Liturgie may consist of nothing doubtfull or questioned among pious learned and orthodox Persons We said also that the limiting Church Communion to things of doubtfull disputation hath been in all Ages the ground of Schisme and Separation which is not to say that the Liturgy it self is a Superstitious usage or a directs cause of Schisme And we cited the words of a Learned man Mr. Hales not as making every word our own but as a Testimony ad hominem because he was so highly valued by your selves as we suppose and therefore we thought his words might be more regarded by you than our own 2. Where you say that the Church hath been carefull to put nothing in the Liturgy but that which is either evidently the word of God or that which had been generally received in the Catholick Church We reply 1. We suppose there is little or nothing now controverted between us which you will say is evidently the Word of God either the Forms or Ceremonies or any of the rest 2. If by in the Church you mean not by the Church but by any part in the Church how shall we know that they did well And if by the generality you mean not All but the Greater part you undertake the proof of that which is not easie to be proved It being so hard to judge of the majority of Persons in the Catholick Church in any notable differences We do take it for granted that you limit not the Catholick Church as the Papists do to the Confines of the Roman Empire but indeed we can only wish that your Assertion were true while we must shew it to be untrue if you speak of the Primitive Church or of an universality of time as well as place if not its more against you that the Primitive Catholick Church was against you The very thing in question that containeth the rest that it s needfull to the peace of the Church that all the Churches under one Prince should use one form of Liturgy was not received by the Catholick Church nor by the generality in it when it is so well known that they used diversity of Liturgies and Customes in the Roman Empire The generality in the Catholick Church received not the Lords Supper Kneeling at least on any Lords dayes when it was forbidden by divers generall Councills and when this prohibition was generally received as an Apostolical tradition We have not heard it prov'd that the Surplice or Cross as used with us wree received by the Universal Church It is a private Opinion not received by the Catholick Church that it is
requisite that no man should come to the Holy Communion but with a full trust in Gods mercy and with a quiet Conscience though it be every mans duty to be perfect pro statu viatoris yet it is not requisite that no man come till he be perfect He that hath but a weak Faith though not a full trust must come to have it strenthned And he that hath an unquiet Conscience must come to receive that mercy which may quiet it It is a private Opinion and not generally received in the Catholick Church that one of the People may make the Publick Confession at the Sacrament in the name of all those that are minded to receive the Holy Communion It is a private and not generally received distinction that the body of Christ makes clean our bodies and his blood washeth our souls It is a doubtful opinion to speak easily that when the Lords Supper is delivered with a Prayer not made in the Receivers name but thus directed to him by the Minister the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ c. preserve thy Body and Soul it is so intollerable a thing for the Receiver not to kneel in hearing the Prayer that he must else be thrust from the Communion of the Church and yet that no Minister shall kneel that indeed doth pray But he may pray standing and the Hearers be cast out for standing at the same words It is not a generally received but a private opinion that every Parishioner though impenitent and conscious of his utter unfitness and though he be in despair and think he shall take his own damnation must be forced to receive thrice a year when yet even those that have not a full trust in Gods mercy or have not a quiet Conscience were before pronounced so uncapable as that none such should come to the Communion Abundance more such Instances may be given to shew how far from truth the Assertion is that the Church hath been careful to put nothing into the Liturgie but that which is either evidently the Word of God or which hath been generally received in the Catholick Church unless you speak of some unhappie unsuccesful Carefulness But we thankfully accept of your following words and if the contrary can be proved we wish it out of the Liturgie which we entreat you to perform and impartially receive our proofs But then we must also entreat you 1. That the Primitive Churches Judgment and practice may be preferred before the present declined much corrupted State And 2. If Gods Law rather than the sinful practises of men breaking that Law may be the Churches Rule for Worship For you call us to subscribe to Art 19. that as the Church of Jerusalem Alexandria and Antioch hath erred so also the Church of Rome hath erred not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies but also in matters of Faith and saith Rogers in Art 20. they are out of the way which think that either one man as the Pope or any certain Calling of men as the Clergie hath power to decree and appoint Rites or Ceremonies though of themselves good unto the whole Church of God dispersed over the universal world and indeed if you would have all that Corruption brought into our Liturgie and Discipline and Doctrine which the Papists Greeks and others that undoubtedly make up the far greater number of the now universal Church do use you would deserve no more thanks of God or man than he that would have all Kings and Nobles and Gentry levelled with the poor Commons because the latter are the greater number or than he that would have the healthful conformed to the sick when an epidemical disease hath made them the Majority or than he that would teach us to follow a multitude to do evil and to break more than the least Commands because the greater number break them we pray you therefore to take it for no justication of any uncertain or faulty passage in our Liturgie though the greater number now are guilty of it 3. And we must beseech you if the Churches Judgment or Practice must be urged that you would do us the justice as to imitate the ancient Churches in your sense of the quality and the mode and measure of using and imposing things as well as in the materials used and imposed Consider not only whether you finde such things received by the ancient Churches but also consider how they were received esteemed and used whether as necessary or indifferent as points of Faith or doubtful Opinions whether forced on others or left to their free choice If you finde that the generality of the ancient Churches received the White Garment after Baptism and the tasting of Milk and Honie as Ceremonies freely though generally used you should not therefore force men to use them If you finde that the Doctrine of the Millennium or of Angels corporeity was generally received as an Opinion it will not warrant you to receive either of them as a certain necessary truth If you finde that the General Councels forbad Kneeling in any Adoration on the Lords daies but without force against Dissenters you may not go denie the Sacrament to all that kneel nor yet forbid them to kneel in praying So if you find some little parcels of our Liturgie or some of our Ceremonies used as things indifferent left to choice forced upon none but one Church differing from another in such usages or observances this will not warrant you to use the same things as necessarie to order unitie or peace and to be forced upon all use them no otherwise than the Churches used them We heartily desire that according to this Proposal great care may be taken to suppress these private Conceptions of Prayers before and after Sermon lest private opinions be made the matter of Prayer in publick as hath and will be if private persons take liberty to make publick Prayers Reply The desire of your hearts is the grief of our hearts the Conceptions of Prayer by a publick person according to a publick Rule for a publick use are not to be rejected as private Conceptions We had hoped you had designed no such innovation as this in the Church When we have heard any say that it would come to this and that you designed the suppression of the free Prayers of Ministers in the Pulpit suited to the varietie of subjects and occasions we have rebuked them as uncharitable in passing so heavie a censure on you And what would have been said of us a year ago if we should have said that this was in your hearts nothing will more alienate the hearts of many holy prudent persons from the Common-Prayer than to perceive that it is framed and used as an Instrument to shut out all other Prayers as the Ministers private Conceptions Such an end and design will make it under the notion of a means another thing than else it would be and afford men such an Argument against it as we desire
with us in Doctrinals unless we digress to tell you who they be What if we were pleading for civil Concord among all that are loyal to the King must we needs digress to tell you who are loyal We are agreed in one Rule of Faith in one Holy Scripture and one Creed and differ not you say about the Doctrinal part of the 39. Art And will not all this seem to tell you who are Orthodox If you are resolved to make all that a matter of Contention which we desire to make a means of Peace there is no remedy while you have the Ball before you and have the Wind and Sun and the power of contending without controll But we perceive That the Catholick consent of Antiquity must go into your definition of the Orthodox but how hard it is to get a reconciling determination what Ages shall go with you and us for the true Antiquity and what is necessary to that consent that must be called Catholick is unknown to none but the unexperienced And indeed we think a man that searcheth the holy Scripture and sincerely and unreservedly gives up his Soul to understand love and obey it may be Orthodox without the knowledge of Church-History we know no universal Law-giver nor Law to the Church but one and that Law is the sufficient rule of Faith and consequently the test of the truly Orthodox though we refuse not Church-History or other means that may help us to understand it And to acquaint you with what you do not know we our selves after many Pastors of the Reformed Churches do question your Liturgie as far as is expressed in our Papers And we profess to adhere to Scripture and the Catholick Consent of Antiquity as described by Vincentius Liniensis If you will say that our Pretence and Claim is unjust we call for your Authority to judge our Hearts or depose us from the number of the Orthodox or else for your proofs to make good your Accusation But however you judge we rejoice in the expectation of the righteous Judgment that shall finally decide the Controversie to which from this Aspertion we appeal To those Generals loading Publick Form with Ch. pomp garm Imagery and many Superfluities that creep into the Church under the name of Order and Decency incumbring Churches with Superfluities over ridgid reviving of obsolete Customes c. We say that if these Generals be intended as applyable to our Liturgy in particular they are gross and foul Slanders contrary to their Profession page ult and so either that or this contrary to their Conscience if not they signifie nothing to the present business and so might with more prudence and candor have been omitted Reply You needed not go a fishing for our Charge what we had to say against the Liturgie which we now desired you to observe was here plainly laid before you Answer to this and suppose us not to say what we do not to make your selves matter of reproaching us with gross and foul slanders Only we pray you answer Mr. Hales as Mr. Hales whom we took to be a Person of much esteem with you especially that passage of his which you take no notice of as not being so easie to be answered for the weight and strength which it carries with it viz. That the li mitting of the Church Communion to things of doubtful disputation hath been in all Ages the ground of Schism and Separation and that he that separates from suspected Opinions is not the Separatist And may we not cite such words of one that we thought you honored and would hear without contradicting our Profession of not intending depravation or reproach against the Book without going against our consciences If we cite the words of an Author for a particular use as to perswade you of the evil of laying the Churches Unity upon unnecessary things must we be responsible therefore for all that you can say against his words in other respects we suppose you would be loath your words should have such interpretations and that you should be under such a Law for all your Citations do as you would be done by It was the wisdome of our Reformers to draw up such a Liturgy as neither Romanist nor Protestant could justly excopt against and therefore as the first never charged it with any positive errors but only the want of something they conceived necessary so it was never found fault with by those to whom the name of Protestants most properly belongs those that profess the Augustine Confession and for those who unlawfully and sinfully brought it into dislike with some people to urge the present Stave of Affaires as an Argument why the Booke should be altered to give them satisfaction and so that they should take advantage by their own unwarrantable Acts is not reasonable Reply If it be blameless no man can justly except against it But that de facto the Romanists never charged it with any positive errors is an Assertion that maketh them reformed and reconcilable to us beyond all belief Is not the very using it in our own Tongue a positive error in their account Is it no positive error in the Papists account that we profess to receive these Creatures of Bread and Wine do they think we have no positive error in our Catechism about the Sacraments that affirmeth it to be Bread and Wine after the Consecration and makes but two Sacraments necessary c. 2. And unless we were nearlier agreed than we are it seemeth to us no commendation of a Liturgie that the Papists charge it with no positive error 3. That no Divines or private men at home or of Foreign Churches that ever found fault with the Liturgie are such to whom the name of Protestant properly belongeth is an assertion that proveth not what authoritie of judgeing your Brethren you have but what you assume and commendeth your Charitie no more than it commendeth the Papists that they denie us to be Catholicks Calvin and Bucer subscribed the Augustine Confession and so have others that have found fault with our Liturgie 4. If any of us have blamed it to the people it is but with such a sort of blame as we have here exprest against it to your selves And whether it be unlawfull and sinfull the impartial comparing of your words with ours will help the willing Reader to discern But if we prove indeed that it is defective and faultie that you bring for an Offering to God when you or your Neighbours have a better which you will not bring nor suffer them that would Mal. 1. 13. and that you call evil good in justifying its blemishes which in humble modestie we besought you to amend or excuse us from offering then God will better judge of the unlawfull act than you have done But you have not proved that all or most of us have caused the people at all to dislike it if any of us have yet weigh our Argument though from the present state
we desire no other rule to decide the Controversie by As to your Citation 1 Socrat. there tells us of the alternate singing of the Aruians in the reproach of the Orthodox and that Chrysostome not a Synod compiled Hymnes to be sung in opposition to them in the streets which came in the end to a Tumult and Bloodshed And hereupon he tells us of the original of alternate singing viz. a pretended vision of Ignatius that heard Angels sing in that order And what is all this to alternate reading and praying or to a Divine Institution when here is no mention of reading or praying but of singing Hymnes And that not upon pretence of Apostolical Tradition but a vision of uncertain credit Theodor. also speaketh only of singing Psalmes alternately and not a word of reading or praying so And he fetcheth that way of singing also as Socrat. doth but from the Church at Antioch and not from any pretended doctrine or practise of the Apostles And neither of them speaks a word of the necessitie of it or of forcing any to it so that all these your Citations speaking not a word so much as of the very Subjects in question are marvellously impertinent The words their Worship seem to intimate that singing Psalms is part of our Worship and not of yours we hope you disown it not for our parts we are not ashamed of it your distinction between Hopkin's and David's Psalms as if the Meetre allowed by Authority to be sung in Churches made them to be no more David's Psalms seemeth to us a very hard saying If it be because it is a Translation then the Prose should be none of David's Psalms neither nor any Translation be the Scripture If it be because it is in Meetre then the exactest Translation in Meetre should be none of the Scripture If because it 's done imperfectly then the old Translation of the Bible used by the Common-Prayer-book should not be Scripture As to your reason for the supposed priority 1. Scripture examples telling us that the People had more part in the Psalms than in the Prayers or Readings satisfie us that God and his Church then saw a disparity of Reason 2. Common observation tells us that there is more Order and less hindrance of Edification in the Peoples singing than in their Reading and Praying together vocally It is desired that nothing should be in the Liturgy which so much us seems to countenance the observation of Lent as a religious Fast and this as an expedient to Peace which is in effect to desire that this our Church may be contentious for Peace sake and to divide from the Church Catholick that we may live at unity among our selves For Saint Paul reckons them amongst the lovers of Contention who shall oppose themselves against the Custome of the Churches of God that the religious observation of Lent was a Custome of the Churches of God appeares by the Testimonies following Chrysost Ser. 11. in Heb. 10. Cyrill Catec myst 5. St. August Ep. 119. ut 40. dies ante Pascha observetur Ecclesiae consuetudo roboravit and St. Hierom ad Marcell saies it was secundum traditionem Apostolorum This Demand then tends not to Peace but Dissention The fasting Forty daies may be in imitation of our Saviour for all that is here said to the contrary for though we cannot arrive to his perfection abstaining wholly from meat so long yet we may fast forty daies together either Cornelius his Fast till three of the Clock afternoon or Saint Peter 's fast till noon or at least Daniel 's fast abstaining from Meats and Drinks of delight and thus far imitate our Lord. Reply If we had said that the Church is contentious if it adore God in kneeling on the Lords daies or use not the White Garment Milk and Honey after baptism which had more pretence of Apostolical tradition and were generally used more anciently than Lent would you not have thought we wronged the Church if the purer times of the Church have one Custome and later times a contrary which must we follow or must we necessarily be contentious for not following both or rather may we not by the example of the Church that changeth them be allowed to take such things to be matters of Liberty and not necessity If we must needs conform to the Custome of other Churches in such things or be contentious it is either because God hath so commanded or because he hath given those Churches Authority to command it If the former then what Churches or what Ages must we conforme to If all must concurr to be our patterne it will be hard for us to be acquainted with them so far as to know of such Concurrences And in our Case we know that many do it not If it must be the most we would know where God commandeth us to imitate the greater number though the worse or hath secured us that they shall not be the worst or why we are not tied rather to imitate the purer Ages than the more corrupt If it be said that the Church hath Authority to command us we desire to know what Church that is and where to be found and heard that may command England and all the Churches of his Majesty's Dominions If it be said to be a General Council 1. No General Council can pretend to more Authority than that of Nice whose 20th Canon back'd with Tradition and common pratice now bindes not us and was laid by without any Repeal by following Councils 2. We know of no such things as General Councils at least that have bound us to the religious observation of Lent The Bishops of one Empire could not make a General Council 3. Nor do we know of any such power that they have ever the universal Church there being no visible head of it or Governours to make universal Laws but Christ as Rogers on the 20. Article fore-cited shews our 21. Article saith that General Councils may not be gathered together without the Commandment and Will of Princes and doubtless all the Heathen and Mahomitans and all the contending Christian Princes will never agree together nor never did to let all their Christian Subjects concurre to hold a General Council It saith also and when they be gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God they may erre and sometimes have erred even in things pertaining unto God therefore things ordained by them as necessary to Salvation have neither strength nor authority unlesse it may be declared that they be taken out of the Holy Scriptures And if they may erre in things pertaining unto God and ordained by them as necessary to Salvation much more in lesser things And are we contentious if we erre not with them Our 39. Article determineth this Controversie saying It is not necessary that Traditions and Ceremonies be in all places one or utterly like for at all times they have
that on Sunday that is so called by Heathens the Christians hold their meetings See the usage of the Church in this point in August Cont. Faustum Manithaeum Lib. 18. Cap. 5. Singing of Psalms in Meeter is no part of the Liturgy and so no part of our Commission Repl. If the word Liturgy signifie the publick Worship God forbid we should exclude the singing of Psalms And sure you have no fitter way of singing than in Meeter when these and all Prayers conceived by private men as you call the Pastors whether prepared or excemporate and by purity of reason-preaching are cast out what will your Liturgy be We hope you make no question whether singing Psalms and Hymns were part of the Primitive Liturgy and seeing they are set forth and allowed to be sung in all Churches of all the people together why should they be denyed to be part of the Liturgy we understand not the reason of this N. 13. 14. The 13. and 14. we suppose you grant by passing them by The phrase is such c. The Church in her Prayers useth no more offensive phrase than St. Paul uses when he writes to the Corinthians Galathians and others calling them in general the Churches of God Sanctified in Christ Jesus by vocation Saints amongst whom notwithstanding there were many who by their known sins which the Apostle endeavoured to amend in them were not properly such yet he gives the denomination to the whole from the greater part to whom in charity it was due And puts the rest in mind what they have by their Baptisme undertaken to be and what they profess themselves to be and our prayers and the phrase of them surely supposes no more than that they are Saints by calling sanctified in Christ Jesus by their Baptisme admitted into Christs Congregation and so to be reckoned members of that Soeiety till either they shall separate themselves by willful Schisme or be separated by legal Excommunication which they seem earnestly to desire and so do we Repl. But is there not a very great difference between the Titles given to the whole Church as you say from the greater part as the truth is from the better part though it were the lesse and the Titles given to Individual members where there is no such reason we call the Field a Corn field though there be much Tares in it because of the better part which denominateth But we will not call every one of these Tares by the name of Corn. when we speak of the Church we will call it holy as Paul doth But when we speak to Simon Magus we will not call him holy but say Thou art in the gall of bitternesse and the bond of Iniquity and hast no part or lot in this matter c. We will not perswade the people that every notorious Drunkard Fornicator Worldling c. that is burried as a Brother of whose Resurtection to life Eternal we have sure and certain hope and all because you will not Excommunicate them We are glad to hear of your desire of such Discipline But when shall we see more than desire and the edge of it be turned from those that fear sinning to those that fear it not The Connexion of the parts of our Liturgy is conformable to the Example of the Churches of God before us and have as much dependence as is usually to be seen in many petitions of the same Psalm and we conceive the Order and Method to be excellent and must do so till they tell us what that Order is which Prayers ought to have which is not done here Repl. There are two Rules of Prayer one is the nature of the things compared in matter and order with nature and necessity The other is the revealed will of God in his word In general the holy Scripture more especially the Lords Prayer The Liturgy for the greatest part of the Prayers for daily use is confused by which soever of those you measure it You seem much to honour the Lords Prayer by your frequent use of it or part of it we beseech you dishonour it not practically by denying it for matter and order to be the only ordinary perfect Rule we know about particular Administrations when it is but certain select requests that we are to put up suited to the particular subject and occasion we cannot follow the whole method of the Lords Prayer which containeth the heads of all the parts where we are not to take in all the parts we cannot take them in that order But that none of all your Prayers should be formed to the perfect Rule that your Let any which is the comprehensive Prayer and that the body of your daily Prayers broken into several Collects should not as set together have any considerable respect unto that order nor yet to the order which reason and the nature of the thing requireth which is observed in all things else and yet that you should admire this and be so tenacious of that which in conceived Prayer you would call by worse names than confusions this shews us the wonderful power of prejudice We were thus brief in this exception lest we should offend by instances But seeing you conceive the order and method to be excellent and to be willing to hear more as to this and the following exception we shall annex a Catalogue of defects and disorders which we before forbore to give you The Psalmes have ordinarily an observabe method If you find any whose parts you cannot so well set together as to see the beauty of method will you turn your eye from the rest and from the Lords Prayer and choose that one to be your President or excuse disorder on that pretence The Collects are made short as being best for devotion as we observed before and cannot be accounted faulty for being like those short but prevalent Prayers in Scripture Lord be merciful to me a Sinner Son of David have mercy on us Lord encrease our Faith Repl. We do in common speech call that a Prayer which containeth all the substance of what in that businesse and addresse we have to say unto God and that a Petition which containeth one single request usually a Prayer hath many Petitions Now if you intend in your addresse to God to do no more than speak a transient request or ejaculation which we may do in the midst of other businesse then indeed your instances are pertinent But why then do you not give over when you seem to have done but come again and again and offer as many Prayers almost as Petitions This is to make the Prayer short as a Sermon is that is cut into single Sentences every Sentence having an exordium and Epilogue as a Sermon but it is to make the Prayers much longer than is needful or suitable to the matter Do you find this the way of the Saints in Scripture Indeed Abraham did so when Gods interlocution answering the first Prayer called him to
of Conscience If by tendernesse of Conscience they mean a fearfulnesse to sin this would make them most easy to be satisfied because most fearful to disobey superiours But suppose there be any so scrupulous as not satisfied with what hath been written the Church may still without sin urge her command for these decent Ceremonies and not be guilty of offending her weak brother for since the scandal is taken by him not given by her it is he that by vain scrupulosity offends himself and layes the stumbling-block in his own way Repl. But the command for mans Institution of a new worship of God or of Rites Sacramental or so like to Sacraments as the Crosse is or for the unnecessary Imposition of unnecessary things which should be left to every prudent Ministers discretion and this upon pain of being cast out of the Church or Ministry and the Law for subscribing that all these are lawful and for swearing obedience to the Bishops all these Laws are not to be found in Scripture If you should but command your Servant to do what you bid him decently and orderly you would think he mistook you if upon that pretence he would do any other work which he could but say tended to the decency of yours And we would gladly hear what you think your selves is forbidden in Deut. 12. 32. If not such humane Ordinances And why you forbear giving the truer sense of the Text. It is a sad case with the poor Church when Gods wisdome that made a few and necessary things the matter of his Churches concord is no more valued But we will be wiser and when the experience of the Church that hath been torn into pieces 1400. years by mens Inventions and needless usages and Impositions is yet of no more force with us that come after them but what ever can be said or done or seen we will still make Laws that all men shall be tantum non unchristened and damned that is cast out of the Ministry or Church communion that will not wear this or that or bow thus or thus or look this way or that way or say this word or that word and when we have laid such a needless snare we will uncharitably cry out the world will be brought into cofusion because men that list not to obey would have the Laws abrogated Where hath Christ set you to make such Laws Is it not work enough for us you to obey the Laws that he hath made Why made he none for postures and vestures words teaching signs of this nature if he would have had them If he had not told us that there is one Lawgiver one Lord and that his word is able to make us wise unto Salvation and that he would lay no greater burden on us than necessary things and would not have us despise or judge each other on such occasions If he had but told us that he left any Officers after his inspired Apostles for the making of Ceremonies or new Laws of worship or teaching engaging signs for the Church we would as gladly understand and obey his will in these things as you what hurt is it to us to use a Crosse or other Ceremony if it were not for fear of disobeying God Enforce Gods Laws upon us zealously if you will and see if we will disobey But that the world shall run into confusion rather than we shall have leave to serve God as Peter and Paul did without Crossing Surplices and Kneeling at the Sacrament and then that we shall be reproached as the cause of all by our disobedience God hath told the world by his word and will tell them by his Judgements that this is not his way to Unity and Peace As to the Argument from your Brethrens weaknesse we say first It is not your strength to slight it or them Nor is it their weaknesse that they are willing to be esteemed weak The Apostle called those weak that placed a necessity in indifferent things Rom. 14 And not those that understood their indifferency But the truth is the nature of things indifferent is not well undestood by all on either side some may think evil of some things that deserve it not and in this they are weak though in other matters they may be strong And for the rest we speak according to the worst that you your selves can charitably suppose you can say no more of them but that they are weaker that is in this know lesse than you though perhaps we may take them to be stronger that is to be more in the right yet are we nor so confident as to censure you or others but speak of things difficult and doubtful as they are But how prove you it we would take it ill to be our selves or have those we speak of accounted ignorant in such things as these use us no worse than the ignorant should be used and till you would turn a man out of the Ministry or Church for being ignorant of the nature of a Ceremony which never was in his Creed the Decalogue or Scripture dealt not so by us that would be wiser if we knew how That all our ignorance is our own fault we deny not but it is an expresse of confidence and uncharitablenesse to rell us that there is so very much written as may satisfie any man that hath a mind to be satisfied and when we professe in his sight that knoweth the hearts that we have a mind to be satisfied and would know the truth at what rate soever if we knew how what would you have us do that we do not to be satisfied Do we not read as much for Ceremonies as the dissenters use to do against them Many Books against them are yet unanswered and we never shunned any publick or private conference with any of you and such reasonings as these are not like to convince us If you will be the judges of your brethrens hearts and say it is not tendernesse of Conscience but stubbornnesse we shall refer that to the day when your hearts and ours shall be opened Must none be tender Conscienc'd that dare not venture to obey you in such things When you may with undoubted safety forbear the imposing of your Ceremonies and so forbear the casting out of your brethren if you will not who shews lesse tendernesse of Conscience That the scandal is taken and not given is still the thing in question as to many things and if it were not just occasion of oftence you ought not to lay that which anothers weaknesse will turn into a stumbling block unnecessarily before them if the Apostles Argument be good Rom. 14. the Church may not urge unlawful things nor things meerly lawful upon such penalties as will exclude things necessary If an idle word be to be accounted for an idle Law is not laudable much less when all men must be excluded the Ministry or Communion that scruple it when yet a man may be a prophan swearer
13. and therefore should be continued still as well as Te Deum Ruffin Apol. cont Hieron or Veni Creator which they do not object against as Apocryphal Reply You much discourage us in these great straits of time to give us such loose and troublesome citations you turn us to Ruffin Apol. in gross and tell us not which of the Councils of Tolet among at least 13. you mean but we find the words in Council 4. But that provincial Spanish Council was no meet Judge of the Affairs of the universal Church unto the universal Church nor is it certain by their words whether quem refer not to eadem rather than to Hymnum but if you so regard that Council remember that Can. 9. it is but once a day that the Lords prayer is in joyned against them that used it on the Lords day only and that Can. 17. it is implyed that it was said but once on that day The Benedicite is somewhat more cautelously to be used than humane Compositions that professe to be but humane when the Apocryphal writings that are by the Papists to be Canonical and used so like the Canon in our Church we have the more cause to desire that a sufficient distinction be still made In the Letany Sect. 1. The alterations here desired are so nice as if they that made them were given to change Reply We bear your Censure but professe that if you will desert the products of Changers and stick to the unchangeable Rule delivered by the Holy Ghost we shall joyfully agree with you Let them that prove most given to change from the unchangeable Rule and Ensamples be taken for the hinderers of our unity and peace Sect. 2. From all other deadly sin is better than From all other hainous sin upon the reason here given because the wages of sin is death Reply There is so much mortal poison in the Popish distinction of mortal and venial sin by which abundance of sins are denied to be sins at all properly but only Analogically that the stomack that feareth it is not to be charged with niceness The words here seem to be used by way of distinction and all deadly sin seemeth not to be spoken of all sin And if so your reason from Rom. 6. 23. is vain and ours firm Sect. 3. From sudden death as good as From dying suddenly which therefore we pray against that we may not be unprepared Reply We added unprepared as expository or hinting to shew the reason why sudden death is prayed against and so to limit our prayers to that sudden death which we are unprepared for there being some wayes of sudden death no more to be prayed against than death it self simply considered may When you say from sudden death is as good as from dying suddenly we confess it is But not so good as from dying suddenly and unpreparedly we hope you intend not to make any believe that out turning the Adjective to an Adverb was our Reformation And yet we wondred to hear this made a common jest upon us as from those that had seen our papers Would you have had us said from sudden and unprepared death you would then have had more matter of just exception against the words unprepared death than now you have against dying suddenly A man may be well prepared to die suddenly by Martyrdom for Christ or by War for his Prince and many other wayes Sect. 4. All that travel as little lyable to exception as those that travel and more agreeable to the phrase of Scripture 1 Tim. 1. 2. I will that prayers be made for all men Reply An Universal is to be understood properly as comprehending all the Individuals and so is not an Indefinite And we know not that we are bound to pray for Thieves and Pyrates and Traytors that travel by land or water on such errands as Faux or the other Powder-plotters or the Spanish Armado in 88. or as Parry or any that should travel on the Errand as Clement or Raviliac did to the two King Henry's of France Are these Niceties with you Sect. 5. P. 16. The 2d Collect c. We do not find nor do they say what is to be amended in these Collects therefore to say any thing particularly were to answer to we know not what Reply We are glad that one word in the proper Collects hath appeared such to you as needs a Reformation especially when you told us before that the Liturgy ws never found fault with by those to whom the name of Protestant most properly belongs which lookt upon our hopes of Reformation almost as destructively as the Papists Doctrine of Infallibility doth when we dealt with them As for the Collects mentioned by us you should not wonder that we brought not in a particular Charge against them For first we had a conceit that it was best for us to deal as gently tenderly as we could with the faults of the Liturgy and therefore we have under our Generals hid abundance of particulars which you may find in the Abridgement of the Lincolnshire Ministers and in many other Books And Secondly we had a conceit that you would have vouchsafed to treate with us personally in presence according to the sense of his Majestie 's Commission and then we thought to have told you particularly of such matters but you have forc'd us to confess that we find our selves deceived The Communion Service Sect. 1. P. 17. Kyries To say Lord have mercy upon us after every Commandment is more quick and active than to say it once at the Close and why Christian people should not upon their knees ask their pardor for their life forfeited for the breach of every Commandment and pray for Grace to keep them for the time to come they must be more than Ignorant that can cruple Reply We thank you for saying nothing against our four first requests though we are thought more than Ignorant for our scruple we can truly say We are willing to learn But your bare opinion is not enough to cure Ignorance and more By your reason you may make kneeling the Gesture for hearing the Scriptures read and hearing Sermons and all If you will but interweave prayers he must be more than Ignorant that will not kneel The universal Church of Christ was more than Ignorant for many hundred years that not only neglected but prohibited Genuflexion in all adoration each Lords day when now the 20th of Exod. or 5th of Deut. may not be heard or read without kneeling save only by the Clergy Sect. 2. P. 18. Homilies Some Livings are so small that they are not able to maintain a licenced Preacher and in such and the like Cases this provision is necessary nor can any reason be given why the Minister's reading a Homily set forth by common Authority should not be accompted preaching of the Word as well as his reading or pronouncing by heart a Homilie or Sermon of his own or any other mans Repl. When
us to hear so much of the Churches Primitive practice where so litle evidence of it is produced Aug. ep 23. talketh not of Primitive practice Ab initio non fuit sic Was it so in the Apostles daies And afterwards you prove not that it was the judgment of the Catholick Church that bare Sponsors instead of Parents Pro-parents or Owners of the Children might procure to the Children of all Infidels a title to Baptism and its benefits Such Susceptors as became the Owners or Adopters of the Children are to be distinguished from those that pro forma stand by for an hour during the Baptizing of the Children and ever after leave them to their Parents who as they have the naturall interest in them and power of their disposall and the Education of them so are fittest to covenant in their names The Font usually stands as it did in Primitive times at or near the Church door to signify that Baptism was the entrance into the Church mysticall we are all baptized into one body 1 Cor. 12. 13. and the people may hear well enough If Jordan and all other waters be not so far sanctified by Christ as to be the matter of Baptism what authority have we to baptise and sure his Baptism was Dedicatio Baptismi Reply Our less difference of the Font and flood Jordan is almost drowned in the greater before going But to the first we say that we conceive the usual scituation for the people's hearing is to be preferred before your Ceremonious position of it And to the second we say that Dedicatio Baptismi is an unfitting phrase and yet if it were not what 's that to the sanctification of Jordan and all other waters Did Christ sanctify all Corn or Bread or Grapes or Wine to an holy use when he administred the Lords Supper Sanctifying is separating to an holy use But the flood Jordan and all other water is not separated to this holy use in any proper sense No more than all mankind is sanctified to the Priestly office because men were made Priests It hath been accounted reasonable and allowed by the best Laws that Guardians should Covenant and contract for their Minors to their benefit by the same right the Church hath appointed sureties to undertake for Children when they enter into Covenant with God by Baptism And this generall practice of the Church is enough to satisfy those that doubt Repl. 1. Who made those Sureties Guardians of the Infants that are neither Parents nor Pro-parents nor Owners of them We are not now speaking against Sponsors But you know that the very original of those Sponsors is a great Controversie And whether they were not at first most properly Sponsors for the Parents that they should perform that part they undertook because many Parents were Desertors and many proved negligent Sponsors then excluded not Parents from their proper undertaking but joyned with them God-fathers are not the Infants Guardians with us and therefore have not power thus to Covenant and Vow in their name VVe intreat you to take heed of leaving any Children indeed out of the mutual Covenant that are baptized How are those in the Covenant that cannot consent themselves and do it not by any that truly represent them nor have any Authority to act as in their names The Authority of Parents being most unquestionable who by nature and the word of God have the power of disposing of their Children and consequently of choosing and covenanting for them VVhy should it not be preferred at lest you may give leave to those Parents that desire it to be the Dedicators of and Covenanters for their own Children and not force others on them whether they will or no. 2. But the question is not of Covenanting but professing present actual believing forsaking c. In which though we believe the Churches sense was sound yet we desire that all things that may render it lyable to mis-understanding may be avoyded Receive remission of sins by spiritual Regeneration Most proper for Baptism is our spiritual Regeneration S. John 3. Unlesse a man be born again of Water and the Spirit c. And by this is received remission of sins Acts 2. 3. Repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of sins 's So the Creed one Baptism for the remission of sins Repl. Baptism as an outward Administration is our visible Sacramental Regeneration Baptism as containing with the Sign the thing signified is our spiritual real Regeneration As we are regenerated before Baptism as you know adult Believers are so we cannot pray to receive remission of sins by that same Regeneration renewed As we are regenerated really in Baptism that Regeneration and Remission are conjunct benefits But if Baptism at once give Regeneration and Remission it follows not that it gives Remission by Regeneration But as Regeneration comprehendeth the whole change reall or Physical and relative so we acknowledge that as the part is given by the whole you may say that Remission is given by Regeneration but more fitly in it than by it But we are not willing to make more adoe about words than needs We cannot in faith say that every Child that is baptized is regenerate c. Seeing that Gods Sacraments have their effects where the Receiver doth not ponere obicem put any bar against them which children cannot do we may say in faith of every child that is baptized that it is regenerated by Gods Holy Spirit and the denial of it tends to Anabaptism and the contempt of this holy Sacrament as nothing worthy nor material whether it be administred to children or no Concerning the Cross we refer to our Answer to the same in general Repl. All Gods Sacraments attain their proper end But whether the Infants of Infidels be the due Subjects and whether their ends be to seal up Grace and Salvation to them that have no promise of it or whether it be only to seal the Covenant to believers and their seed are Questions yet undecided wherein we must intreat you not to expect that we should implicitly believe you and it is as easy for us to tell you that you are promoting Anabaptism and much more easy to prove it We take those but for words of course PRIVATE BAPTISM We desire that Baptism may not be administred in a private place And so do we where it may be brought into the publick Congregation But since our Lord hath said S. Joh 3. Unlesse one be born of Water and the Holy Ghost he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven We think it fit that they should be Baptized in private rather than not at all It is appointed now to be done by the lawful Minister Repl. We must needs suppose you are disputing with Protestants who ordinarily shew the Papists that that Text Joh. 3. asserteth no absolute necessity of Baptisme to salvation But we believe as well as you that it is the regular way of solemn