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church_n	hand_n	imposition_n	ordination_n	2,839	5	9.9482	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07038	Oh read ouer D. Iohn Bridges, for it is worthy worke: or an epitome of the fyrste booke, of that right worshipfull volume, written against the puritanes, in the defence of the noble cleargie, by as worshipfull a prieste, Iohn Bridges, presbyter, priest or elder, doctor of Diuillitie, and Deane of Sarum Wherein the arguments of the puritans are wisely prevented, that when they come to answere M. Doctor, they must needes say some thing that hath bene spoken. Compiled for the behoofe and overthrow of the vnpreaching parsons, fyckers, and currats, that haue lernt their catechismes, and are past grace: by the reverend and worthie Martin Marprelat gentleman, and dedicated by a second epistle to the terrible priests. In this epitome, the foresaide fickers, [et]c. are very insufficiently furnished, with notable inabilitie of most vincible reasons, to answere the cauill of the puritanes. ...; Oh read over D. John Bridges. Epitome	Marprelate, Martin, pseud.; Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.	1588 (1588)	STC 17454; ESTC S112311	32,960	52

500. green heads more that are on their side within 2. Syllogismes would set the deane of Sarum at a flat non plus and answere his whole worke in a threepenie booke● Are they so good at disputing and writing in deed I hope his Canterburinesse will looke to this geare and suffer them to haue liberty neither to write nor to dispute the black Oxe hath troden on his foote he hath had some trial by woful experience what small credite and lesse-gaine there is to be had either in writing or disputing with these fellows To the matter The state of the whole controuersie betweene my brethren bishops and my brethren the puritans and so betweene this worthie doctor and these discoursers is whether the externall gouernement of the Church of Christ be a thing so prescribed by the Lorde in the new testament as it is not lawfull for any man to alter the same any more then it was lawfull to alter y e form of regiment prescribed vnder the law in the old testamēt And see whether if there be any gouernment in y e Church as necessarily there must be or els all confusion will ensue the same must be by those offices and officers alone and by no other which the Lord hath set downe and limited in his word Or els whether man may alter these offices and officers at his will and pleasure and make newe offices and officers as he may in the ciuill gouernments The puritans saye that these offices and officers whiche our sauior Christe and his Apostles did ordaine ●re unchangeable and that it is not lawfull for any pri●ce to alter them no not though the circumstances of times places and persons should seeme in regarde of conuenience to enforce him thereunto The doctor with all the Lordly priests in the land hold the contrarie And sweare it to be lawfull for the magistrate to ordaine what gouernement he will in the Church yea that the Church gouernors contrary to the flat commandement of our sauior Christ Luke 22.25.26 may be Lordes And that the Church gouernment prescribed by our Sauiour Christe and enioyned by the Apostle was not immutable as the regiment vnder the lawe was In so much as in the opinion of M. Bridges and the rest of the cleargie Paul was deceiued Ephesians the 4.13 in saying that pastors and doctors were to cōtinue in the Church vntil we al meet together that is vnto the ende of the worlde Here then is the puritans●● for the permanencie of this gouernment and M doctors no. ● Our brethren for so of his meere curtesie it pleaseth M. deane to call them whome men commonly call puritans and precisians to make their partie good propound the cause by a like example after this sort The sacrifices of y e olde lawe after the building of the temple were to be offered onely at Ierusalem by a Leuite of the li●e of Alia●on onely vnlesse a prophet extraordina●ily ordained it otherwise as Eliah did And the said sacrifices were to be consumed and burned onely by a fire proceeding from the Lord. Briefly none were to m●ddle with the tabernacle or any thing belonging to the seruice of God but the sonnes of Leui whome the Lord appointed for his owne seruice So that if anye sacrifice were offered out of Ierusalem by any other then a sonne of Aaron consumed by any strange fire or any seruice about the Tabernacle performed by a stranger not appointed by y e Lord then an horrible breath of gods ordinance was committed and punished very memorable by the Lord in 〈◊〉 Corah Dathan Abi●am the two hundreth and fiftie captaines of the Congregation who not being of the sonnes of Aaron would needs offer incense before the Lord. In like sort Christe Iesus ordained that when there should be any ministers in his Church they should be able to gather together the saints and that those in their proper and limited places should be either pastors or doctors In like sort he ordained that som should bear rule and ouersee the flocke with the minister and they should be Elders that the ouersight of the Church treasurie the care for the maintenance of the poore should be committed vnto Deacons vnder which also the widowes Church seruants are contained He farther ordained that before these officers shoulde be instituted and as it were inuested into their offices there should be had one examination of their fitnes to exemte the same and their vnreprooueable life And that their ordination shoulde be by imposition of hands with fasting and prayer And by these 4. officers say our brethren Pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons God hath appointed that all matters of the Church should be decided determined For these officers onely and none else must haue to do with the preaching of the ●ord● administring the sacraments making of mu●sters excommunicating and administring of all other Churche censures and punishmentes But as for ciuill gouernment punishment and censures they must not meddle with them Because these thinges onely belongeth to the ciuill magistrate whose off●●e is not to be vsurped by any of the ●●●mer Thus our brethrē set downe the whol state of the controuersie and thus by Scripture they confirme their I and ouerthrow M. doctors no. Parlous fellowes I assure yo● For beleeue me it would put a man to his trumps to answer these things soundly by scripture againe Well M. Deane on the other side verye stoutly proosteth his no● page 54. of his by a conner axiome to beginne withall on this maner If this Church gouernement by pastors doctors elders and deacons be necessarie then the Church in some age place eyther had this gouernment or hath labored for it A most true and tried trueth what then brother Sa●●●● do you assume from this true gouerment ●ay sof● there ●a masse deane I trow the puritans will not driue me to make syllogismes in this booke That is no part of mine intent for if I had thought they would driue me to suche pinches I would not haue medled with them Naye by their leaue if the assumption or proposition bee eyther more then I can prooue or be against my selfe I will omit them Pardon me I praye ye my masters I will set downe nothing against my self I haue brought in a true proposition and that is inough for one man I thinke Let me see what you can saye to that Mine assumption shalbe brought forth at leysure Is the winde at that dore with you brother deane I perceiue you will be of the surer side howsoeuer it goeth But brethren what then say you to M. deanes reason Your answere I know may be of 3. sorts First you may say that the reason is popish Secondly you may demand whether it be mid sommer Moone with him or no because he bringeth in a couex proposition and assumeth nothing Can you blame him in so doing For the

the ouerthrow by disputation or els I see that Martin hath vndone you Be packing bishops and keepe in the P●●rcivants or if you will needs send them abroad to molest good men then pay them thei● wages and let them not pull it out of poore mens throates like greedie doggs as they do You striue in vaine you are layd open alreadie Fryar● and Monkes were not so bad● they liued in the darke you shut your eyes lest you should see the light Archbishop Titus and Timothie will neuer maintaine your popishe callings I haue pulled off your vizards looke to your selues for my sonnes will not see their father thus persecuted at your hands I will worke your woe and ouerthrow I hope And you are alreadie cleane spoyled vnlesse you will grant the puritans a free disputation and leaue your persecuting Eyther from countrie or Court M. Martin Marprelate will do you hurt Rime doggrell Is good inough for bishops I can tell And I doe much maruell If I haue not giuen them such a spell As answere it how they cannot tell Doctor Bridges vp and downe Writeth after this fashowne The Epitome of the first booke of this worthye volume written by my brother Sarum Deane Iohn Sic foeliciter incipit THe whole volume of M. Deanes containeth in it 16 bookes besides a large preface and an Epistle to the Reader The Epistle the preface are not aboue 8. sheets of paper and very little vnder 7. You may see when men haue a gift in writing howe easie it is for them to daube paper The compleat worke very briefely comprehended in a portable booke if your horse be not too weake of an hundred threescore and twelue sheets of good Demie paper is a confutation of The learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement This learned discourse is a booke allowed by all the Puritane preachers in the lande who would haue all the remnants and reliques of Antichriste dauntehed out of the Church and not so much as a Lorde B. no not his grace himselfe dumbe minister no not dumbe Iohn of London his selfe nonresident archdeacon abbie lubder or anye such loyterer tollerated in our ministerie Insomuch as if this strong holde of theirs be ouerthrowne hoe then all the fat is run to the fire with the puritanes And therefore hath not the learned prudent M. Deane delt very valiantly how wisely let Iohn Cant. cast his cardes and consider in assaulting this fort of our precise brethren which he hath so shakē with good vincible reasons very notably out of reason that it hath not one steane in the foundation meare then it had Trust me truely he hath giuen the cause sicken a wipe in his bricke and so lamb skinned the fame that the cause will be the warmer a good while for it The reasons that moued him to take this paines was that at the first comming out of the Learned Discourse the D. in a Sermon of his at Paules crosse did not onely confute a great part of this booke but by his said learned sermon made many of the puritans relent and distrust their owne cause what cannot a smooth tongue and a schollerlike wit bring to passe Some other of the puritans in deede being more vntoward to learne then the rest stood stiffe in their former opinions concerning the gouernment of bishopps notwithstanding this sermon of M. doctors challenged him for his sermon offered him y e disputation yea the non plus too or els I am deceiued here M. dean promised them a large confutation of the Learned discourse which in this ●ooke he hath now performed wherein he hath behaued himselfe verye scholerlike His stile is as smooth as a crabtree cudgell The lieader cannot chuse but haue as great delight therein as a Iacke an Apes hath in a whip he hath so thumped the cause with crosse blowes that the puritans are like to haue a good and a sound cause of it as long as they liue In this one thing I dare preferre him before any that euer wrote to wit that there be not 3. whole periods for euery page in the book that is not graced with a verie faire and visible solacism O most excellent and surpassing eloquence He speaketh euery thing so fitly to the purpose that he neuer toucheth the matter in question A rare gift in a learned writer He hath vsed such varietie of lerning that very often he hath translated out of one mans writing 6. or 7. pages together note here a newe founde manner of bookemaking And which is more strange he bringeth those testimonies for his purpose whose very words translated set down by him are as flat against the purpose whereto he bringeth them as fire in quallity is contrary to water Had not he a right vse of his wits think you while they were thus bestowed Not to stand long in this place of those quallities in him whereof before I haue made some mention to his praise in the former Epistle Whatsoeuer might be for the ornament and furthering of an honest cause he hath in this booke so defied them all that elsewhere you are to seeke for them for here they are not to be found Wherin he hath very wisely and prudeutly obserued the decorum of the cause in hand Like lips like Lettice as it is in the prouerbe The goodnes honestie of the matter he handled required such good honest proffs as he brought Let those that handle honest and godly causes labor to bring good prooffs and a cleare stile Presbyter Iohn defended our Church gouernement which is full of corruptions therefore the stile and the prooffs must be of the same nature that the cause is The priest leaues not so much as the title of the Discourse vnexamined The title forsooth is A learned discourse c. A sawcie title but what sayth the lerned Bridges vnto it O you know he is good at a stale iest euer since he plaide my Lord of Winchesters foole in his sermon at Sir Maries Church in Cambridg therfore he iesteth at the title I vs the puritans haue nothing to doe with that sermon why should they hit their brother in the teeth therewith he hath made their betters to laugh at him for his Sermon since that time And whye should he not for his grace will allow him because he is content that bishops should be Lords he hath subscribed weareth a corner cap and a tippet woulde gladly come to the honor to weare that which might make him a lord spirituall and if it were a shauen crowne or a coxcombe which his grace his articles would enioyn him to weare what hurt could that do vnto him Now I wonder what our brethren will say to this that their booke is scoffed at at the first dashe I am sure their noses can abide no iest What say they man do you make anye question of that I warraunt you they will affirme that the author of the Learned Discourse and

page 58. sheweth very wisely that men must warily take heed how they builde for the Bb. haue these 30. yeares so builte that they are almost come to digg at the foundation of the Church le●t velike men shoulde by building after the maner of the Apostles ouerthrow the Monasterie of Sarum And that were pittie seing from thence these natural reasons following haue issued Euerie thing that is prescribed in the word contayneth in it the perfection of religion But the Church gouernement doeth not containe in it the perfection of religion Therefore the Churche gouernement is not prescribed in the word No brother Iohn nor baptim neither For baptim doth not containe the perfection of religion in it and therefore as you may wisely conclude it is not prescri●●● in the word We may alter what we will now so that the part which we alter containe not the perfection of religion in it be agreeable vnto my ● of Cant. articles For they must be altered in no rase And what reason is it that the Lord● supper should be receiued vnder both kindes if the ciuill magistrate and the Churche will otherwise ordayne For no sacrament containeth in it the perfection of religion therefore by M. deanes ●r oposition the celebration therof is not prescribed in y e 〈◊〉 A man might keep good stir in y e pulpit or in writing hauing but this ground allowed him And I thinke of such a preacher as this shoulde bee Iohn of London spa●●e in his foresaide booke page 49. line 2. where he describeth his preacher after this maner that he should be no milksop no white liuered gentleman that for the frowning cloudy countenance of euery man in authoritie will leaue his flocke crie Pecaui And againe in this page When they come to handigripes they must not onely flourishe but they must know their quarter strokes and the way howe to defende their head c● Such a pr●cher I say as this would quickly with his quarter strokes ouerturne al religion with verye good reason if deane Iohns proposition be true That euery thing whiche is prescribed in the word contayneth in it the perfection of religion Will you haue any more of these blowes brethren then touch them againe parson Iohn with the second reason in this page Euerie thing that is prescribed in the word is of the substance of the building The church gouernement is not of the substance of the buylding Therefore it is not prescribed in the worde Nothing but pa●alog●●●nes Sir Bridges do you not know before whom you speak You thinke now that you play my ● of Winchesters foole do you Or that you are in the monasterie of Sarum among your roring quiristers I would aduise you learn this of me That the Church gouernment is a substancial point of religion And therfore of the substance of the building That it is a substantiall point it appeareth because it is included within the commaundement which our Sauior Christ gaue vnto his Apostles when he sent thē to build his Church commanding them not onely to teache and baptize all nations which are the things that you thinke onely to be substantiall vnto the building Naye wicked bishops wil not acknowledge preaching to be of the substance of the building but also to teache them to obserue whatsoeuer he commanded them Now he orday as ● he commanded that the church should be gouerned by these 4. offices or els the Apostles woulde neuer haue obserued them and prescribed them vnto the Churche Was there nothing wanting vnto the building in Greek while they wanted Fiders there If there was not why should Titus stay there to ordain Fiders in euery citie If there was what a dunse art thou to denie the Church gouernment saluation such a necessitie as without which men cannot be saued The next reason is for the golden pen. Either necessarie or vnnecssarie But not necessarie to saluation Ergo vnnecessarie Thus M. Doc. carrieth away the matter very clearly Onely he strayneth a little curtesie with the Learned Discourse in putting necessarie to saluation for appertayning to saluation You know he that can with a guilty conscience haue a facultie for two liuings may as wel be dispensed with for a lye or two And I wisse these fellowes neede not to be so precise of swearing by fayth troth and strayning out a small lye for a benefit they cōmit groser sinnes many times And this M. Do. hath ouerthrowne their whole buylding in generall Nowe hee commeth to the spoyling of euery particular part therof But before I come to these pointes I care not inasmuch as there hath bene often mention made of my L. of Londons booke betweene our brother Bridges and me if I set downe some part of my iudgement concerning that booke O but M. Martin will my brother Bridges say will you meddle with that booke which M. Amar wrote in the defence of her Maiesties gouernment So you will giue me and the Bb. iust cause to say that you are a sedicious fellowe and one that disliketh of her maiesties gouernment And by this meanes you will incense many against you that otherwise could not but fauor your worthinesse and learning I would they durst say euen anye B. of them all saye that I dislike her maiesties gouernement I would make poore Bb. of thē or I had done with them if they should slander me in this sort And they dare but raise vp this slander against me I will persecute the whol generation of them and make them wearie of slandering while they liue Shall they deale with me as you do brother Bridges thinke you with Daneus in your booke whome you bring as an enemie to her maiesties gouerment whereas he by name and in manifest words commendeth and prayseth very highly her maiesties regiment aboue all others Or will they deale with me as they haue done with M. Beza M. Beza cap. 44. of his Confessions written in Latin saith that he disliketh their iudgements who thinke it vnlawful for women to beare rule This book is translated into English but it hath all this poynt left out in the Englishe copie to the end they may as it is reported bear her maiestie in hand that M. Beza is against her regiment and so that her maiestie may be brought in detestation of the Church gouerment which M. Beza fauoreth as being a Church gouerment that cannot stand with the ciuill gouernment of women What say you to this geare Bb. haue you delt well with M. Beza Deale thus with me an you dare If you will say that you had no such intent as to slaunder M. Beza in leauing out the said point Then I say that you are enemies vnto her maiesties gouernment in that you will wipe out of a printed and a translated booke that which was written in her defence especially suffering the rest of the booke to be printed To returne to Iohn of Londons foresaid booke

it then in deede I must thinke you not to be altogether so leaddenheaded as your brother Bridges For do you thinke that a man entreating of the Maior of London the two Shiriffs and their offices speaketh by by of some part of the order gouerment of the citie of London or of som of the gouernours of the citie As though my L. Maior the two Shiriffes were now become to be any of the gouernours of the citie of London or their offices any part of that gouernment Who seeth not by this example the folly of our precise brethrens reason euidently declared The Apostle say they speketh of Apostles prophets Euangelists pastors doctors and their functions for this M.D. confesseth therfore he speaketh of some ecclesiasticall gouernours and of some part of ecclesiasticall gouernement Apostles prophets pastors and doctors are church gouernours with them and their office a part of ecclesiasticall gouerment Let them learne let them learn simple siginnes as they are that the Apostle speaketh in this place of ecclesiasticall functions and not of any part of ecclesiasticall gouerment For so M.D. in this 61. pag compare line 17. with line 22. teacheth vs to speake English making an ecclesiasticall function to be a thing altogether differing in nature from euery part of ecclesiasticall gouernment A very proper and pleasant distinction In the second place this testimonie brought in by our brethren is prooued to make nothing to their purpose by two reasons And what bommination vmbertie of reasons here be to perceede foorth one head and yet euerye one fause as it is true that my good brother Ouerton the B. of Liechfield and Couentree sould his Chauncellorship at one time vnto two se●erall men to wit to D. Beacon and the good Chauncellor M. Zacharie Babington Well parson Bridges his 1. reason is after this sort That place which sheweth gifts and functions to be ordayned in the Church to the buylding vp of the bodie of Christe in the vnitie of the fayth and knowledge maketh nothing to prooue that there is an ecclesiasticall gouerment prescribed in the worde Thou sayst euen true parson Iohn For what hath the functions of pastors doctors Apostles c. to doe with Church gouernement A prettie matter euery beggerly Apostle pastor doctor or Euangelist y t cannot spende no I am sure no● 40. marks yearely by all the spirituall liuing he hath in his hande must nowe be a Church gouernour with our brethren their offices be a part of Church gouernment Why brethren what meane you by this place you haue brought O● you thinke that the Apostle by those functions and those persons spoken of Ephes. 4.12 meaneth that any of them functions shoulde be a Lordlike functiou or any of the persons Lord. You saye he doth not No doth not Then out of your owne grant he speaketh nothing of ecclesiasticall gouernment and gouernors Because euerie ecclesiasticall gouernour must needs be a Lord and so ecclesiasticall gouernment a lordly gouernement If this be not true aske my brother Bridges For should God ordaine great men and great Lords to be rulers in common wealths ouer whome hee hath not so great care as he hath for his Church and ordayne none but beggerly fellowes not able to spend 200. markes by the yeare nay nor 20. neither to beare rule in his Church I grant in deed that you brethren puritans saye the trueth as it ought to be that bishops or ministers ought not to be Lords in any wise eyther as ministers or as ciuill magistrates Thus in deed it ought to be I and my brethren the Bb. do grant vnto you And you knowe we would it were so But you know also that our laws will haue Church gouernours to be Lords and what should our Bishops good noble men refuse that which the law would haue them to take Get you the law to be against their lordly callings and see whether they will not giue ouer their Lord bishopdomes whensoeuer lawe compelleth them And whensoeuer they giue ouer they shall haue no cause to thanke suche enuious brethren as you are Howsoeuer it be you see the Apostle speaking of all sorts of ministers by your owne confession speaketh nothing of any Lord or Lordly gouerment among them all and therefore speaketh nothing of Church gouernment Againe all those functions whereof the Apostle maketh any mention as my brother Bridges hath well noted are ordayned to the buylding of the bodie of Christe in the vnitie of fayth and knowledge Nowe I would anye puritan of you all durst say that our Church gouernors that is our venerable and worshipfull Lord bishops are ordained of God for the building of his bodie which I know you will say to be done by preaching As though ● bishops being ciuill gouernours should preach Were it meete I pray you to see Steuen Gardiner being thē of the priuie Counsell in the pulpit Counsellors nowe must haue ●omething to doe with pulpit matters muste they I pray you Will you allow that ciuill gouernours should be ordinarie preachers in your new platforme of a reformed Church I know you will not And what reason is it then that you should require Bb. to be ordinary preachers seeing euery bishop is a ciuil gouernour I tel you true I am so far from thinking that bishops ought to be ordinarie preachers seeing they are ciuill gouernours that I hold it a sin for them to preache ordinarily And brethren you doe not well therefore in vrging ciuil gouernours to preach especially seing you your selues in your platformes are against this point And because it shall be seene that I deale vprightly betweene you and the P.P. prelates I will set downe my reason answer it when you can it shall be concluded I warrant you in moode and figure But in deed I haue inuented a newe moode of mine owne for I haue bin a great schooleman in my daies which containeth in it a great misterie The misterie I will expound it may be in a book for the purpose In the meane time if you resort to my sonne Martin senyor that worthy wight he it may be shalbe able to vnfolde the secresie thereof This is the syllogisme the moode answereth vnto Celarent elder daughter to Barbara and I will haue it called Perncanterburikenolde Perne No ciuill magistrate can be an ordinarye preacher without sinne Ce la rent Canterburie Euerie Lorde Bishoppe is a ciuill magistrate Therefore Ce la rent Kenolde No Lord Bishop can be an ordinarie preacher without sinne Ce la rent What say you now brethren would you haue ciuill gouernors such as our Bishops are to preach I hope not For although I cannot deny but som of our bishops are very great breakepulpits and haue as marueilous rawe gifts in preaching as any that euer came to Pauls wharff yet surely I cānot see what warrant you haue to vrge ciuil officers to preach Wherefore also you doe not well in crying out against ciuil gouernors because