by hearing Peter the Pope alwayes Absurd the Pope is not Peter nor Peters true Successor The text sheweth that the Ephesian Church then and every Church stil is a pillar and ground of truth to whom the members are therefore ordinarily to hearken therefore they have the Keyes Church governement “ Mat. 18.17 coÌ„mitted by Christ vnto them But D. Bilson giveth not over so Chap. 9. He hath some generall obiections against our grounds of Scripture First * Pag. 10â— None can give Imposition of handes but they that first receaved the same They must have it theÌ„selves that will bestow it on others Lay men have it not Therefore they can not give it I answer the Proposition faileth Vnder the Law some of the “ Nomb. 8.10 people Imposed their handes on the Levites in the Gospell the 12. Apostles imposed their handes in making Ministers Yet these receaved no impositioÌ„ of hands them selves Againe wee must note heere two distinctions and so the Assumption is false First Lay men as he calleth them are considered singly or iointly They have no Ecclesiasticall power singly But as they are ioyned togeather in a Visible Church which is a Spiritual Body politike and a Mysticall Body of Christ whether they be many or †Mat. 18.20 few so even these Lay men have receaved the power of all the holy things of God all Gods ordinances spirituall As the Apostle saith vnto them “ 1. Cor. 3. â—2 23 All things are yours and yee Christes and Christ Gods The whole CongregatioÌ„ is Christs Church his Spouse his Kingdome his sacred Body as I †Pag. 164. 165. 166. have said From wheÌ„ce by a necessary and vndeniable consequence it followeth that Christ hath given the power of Imposing handes of Censures of Sacramentes of Preaching the word and all vnto the Congregation to bee performed in the best order they can And so it is that our Attestators “ Pag. 32. 33. 34. before have taught that the Keyes are given the whole Church Yet consider secondly that the people thus have receaved all these spirituall things so can give theÌ„ only potestative as I may say that is they have the power of them But activè actually they only can administer them who are the Churches instruments for that purpose by them assigned Thus Tertullian may meane well saying that sometime †Tertull. de Baptis a Lay maÌ„ may Baptize namely if the Church assigne him in a case of necessitie when an ordinarie Minister can not be had Otherwise I can not iustifie his speach Yea the Ordinarie exercise of Prophesie that is Prophesie Interpreting of Scripture publikely in the Church is to be performed by the “ 1. Cor. 14.1.31.34 particular people being by the Church orderly appointed therevnto Touching the excellencie and most profitable vse of which Apostolicall exercise though now it bee every where almost out of vse I wish the Reader to see Ma †Zuingl ad Valentin Compar et Antibol advers Enâ—ser Zuinglius and “ Pet. Mart. in 1. Cor. 14. Iac. Acont Strat. Sat. 4. Calv. Inst 4 1.12 1. Cor. 14. others also Further touchinge Imposition of handes the D. seemeth heere to esteeme it as the very Ordination it selfe that it giveth the power to Preach and Baptize c. But it is not so There are two Essentiall partes of Calling to the Ministerie Election and Ordination The imposing of handes is but a Ceremonie of putting the Minister before made into possession of his right and a commending of him to the blessing of God Though all these actions belong to the people so as before I have shewed yet Imposition of handes the Ceremonie may possibly be wanting in a true Minister and sufficient Ordination may be without it Yea true Ministers have ben without it Howbeit I suppose Christs Church offendeth in omitting it for though it be but a ceremonie yet it is Apostolike Where also that which followeth in answered though to give power to preach and baptize be more then to preach and baptize yet the people have the power of both And though Imposition of hands to Ordination may be said to be a kinde of Sacrament yet the people have the power of it as I have shewed But Calvin saith †Institut 4.3.16 Only Pastors did it Be it so and let them only do it stil for they are the fittest instrumentes for that purpose which the Church can assigne viz. wheÌ„ they are to be had This theÌ„ is nothing materiall Seeing wee seeke only that the Pastor should not ordaine in his owne name power but in the churches next after Christ by their free consent Also if no Pastor can bee had that then some other the fittest they have may act the Churches godly determination for them in their name and by their right receaved froÌ„ Christ their Head For people so ioyned togeather as “ Pag. 164. before I shewed may essentially bee a Church though they want a Pastor And Maister Calvin gainsayeth nothing of this but †See before pag. 43. 164 80. 81. he ioyned in Geneva to the practise of it and in their places Luther and Zuinglius did also c. Finally we caÌ„not but note this speach of Doct. Bils more then strange “ Pag. 109. To create Ministers by imposing handes A strange speach is to give them not only power and leave to preach the word and dispense the Sacramentes but also the grace of the holy Ghost to make them able to execute both partes of their function Alas why then do they create so many vnable and vngracious Ministers in England which there do swarme Why do they so If their imposing of handes can give all this grace Where also is answered that hee would “ Pag. 110. barre the people from the power of Excommunication because they have no power to administer the Word and Sacramentes I have shewed how the people have power of all these and of all spirituall actions beside Where he saith The Pastors shall yeeld account of them to God So shall the Church also But therefore none may compell the Pastors What may not the Magistrat if he see neede I suppose he will retract that Yea and say I the Church may coÌ„pell Pastors in her maner viz. when shee seeth vrgent need And yet properly he can not bee compelled his owne will carieth him vohint as non cogitur So that how soever the Church when they see neede may inioyne him yet his owne will is it which he shal answer for Pastors therfore shall indeed give account to God for their administring the Word and Sacramentes and for their not administring Namely for their part But none of them are therfore Lords of the word and Sacramentes nor absolut arbitrary disposers of them vnder Christ Where he addeth that “ Pag. 111. the moderatioÌ„ of the Keyes and imposition of handes were at
the whole Church This ought to go before that iudgement And Non absque consensu Ecclesiae quispiam excommunicari potest lus hoc ad Ecclesiam pertinet neque ab illâ eripi potest Witthout the consent of the Church not any one can bee excommunicated This right belongeth to the Church neither ought it to bee taken away from it And the consent of the people is still to be observed in Excommunication both that tyrannie may be avoyded that it may be done with greatâ—er fruit and gravitie The same worthy man greatly coÌ„mendeth the pietie of a Bishop at Troie in France who about the yeare 1561. left his Popish state and did betake him to a flocke of Christians there Epict. â—â— and taught them the word of God purely But quia ei gravis scrupulus â—iectus est de suâ vocatione quod in ed Ecclesis ac populi Elestionem seu Censirmationem uâ— is habuerit ideò c. Beâ—ause he had a great scruple in his conscience about his Calâ—aâ—g seeing hee had not therein the Elâ—ction or Confirmation of the Church and people Therefore hee sent for the Elders of the reformed Church and desired theÌ„ that they would consider godly and wisely whether they would chose confirme and haâ—e hâ—n for their Bishop Which if they thought good to do hee would doe his indeavour that as hee began so hee would go on as hee was able by teaching and exhorting to edifiâ—â— and increase the Church committed to him But if they thought him not fit for so great an Offâ—â—â— they should speake it freely and openly hee was â—eadie to give place c. And hee desired that they would speedily deâ—berate with the Church about the matter Which when it was done hee was acknowledged â—aâ— reâ—eaved of all with one consent as a true Bishop Wherefore his authoritie and pâ—â—iâ— doth much profit the Church of Chriâ—t God bee praised who governeth and gâ—ideth the kingdome of his Sonne in this manner O where shall wee see such Bishops in these dayes 8. Musculus Musculus also speaketh and reasoneth cleerely with vs heerein Hee saith †Com. plac Of Min. Elect. There is no doubt but the Apostles keâ—t that maner of ordayning viz. after the church had chosen And After fasting and praying which was wont to be done in the Congregation of the faithful They ordayned Elders which were first chosen of the faithfull And this forme of Electing and ordayning Elders and Bishops the Apostle commended vnto his fellow workman Titus and Timothie saying “ Tiâ— 1 5. For this cause I left thee in Crete c. For who would beleeve that he ordained that Titus should do otherwise then both hee and the rest of the Apostles were accustomed to do Therefore both by example and ordinace of the Apostle in the primitive church Elders Pastors Bishops and Deacons were in the Ecclesiasticall Meetings chosen of the people by lifting vp of handes Also hee saith The Forme of Election vsed in the Apostles times is conformable to the libertie and priviledge of the Church whereof Cyprian made mention and that forme of choise whereby men began to be thrust vpon the people of Christ beeing not chosen of it doth agree to a Church which is not free but subiect to bondage And this forme of electioÌ„ by the peoples choise he calleth the Old the Fittest the Divine the Apostolicall and lawfull election the other to come from the corrupt state of the Church and Religion 9. Bullinger Bullinger assirmeth thus “ Decaâ— 5.4 The Lord from the beginning gave authoritio to the Church to chose and ordayne fit Ministers And Those which thinke that the Bishop Archbishop have power to make Ministers vse these places of the Scripture * Tit. 1. Therefore I left thee at Crete that thou mightest appoint Elcers Towne by Towne And againe “ 1. Tim. 5. Take heed that thou lay not thy handes rashly on anie But we answer that the Apostles did not vse any tyranny in the Churches nor themselves alone to have don these thinges which pertayned either to Election or Ordination other men in the Church shut out For the Apostles and Elders did create Bishops and Elders in the Church but communicating their counsaill with the Churches yea and with the consent and approving of the people Yea of Ministers that governe anic Church without or against their consent thus he saith “ In 1. Coâ— 5.4 Vâ—bem prodere diâ—untur Legati qui diversum ab eo quod ab vrbe prescriptum est agunt Those embassadors are said to betray the Citie who do any thing divers from that which is prescribed them by the Citie 10. Gualter Gualter likewise is as plaine as can be Saith hee of the calling of Ministers †Hoâ—â—il in Act 13.1 Divinitùs vocatos esse censebimus quâ—scunque Dei spiritus donis necessarijs instruxerit legitiâ—â—s Ecclesiae suffragijs elegerit Aliquas enim in hac causa partes Ecclesiae mandatas esse hiâ— locus perspicuè tradit Ecclesiae calculum spiritus requirit We wil esteeme them to have a calling from God whomsoever Gods spirit hath â—â—abled with necessarie giftes and hath chosen by the Churches lawful giviâ—g of voyces For this place plainly sheweâ—h that in this cause there are some partes committed to the Church The Spirit requireth the Churches iudgâ—ment Afterward he saith “ In Act. 14. â—â— Foedá tyranâ—ide Ecclesiarum slatus opprimitur The state of the Churches is oppressed by filthy tyrannie where at this day the Churches have not this libertie to give their free consent at least For heere he respecteth that right and iust order according to the rule of the Gospell which before he had described †In Act. 1. â—â— Ministrorum verbi Ecclesiae Electiones atque ordinationes non occultè intra privatos parietes à paucis hominiâ—us sed publicè ab Ecclesia in totius Ecclesiae conspectu fieri debent Neque noâ— movet quod Paulus alibi vni Tito vel Timâ—theo ius potestatem Episcopoâ— eligendi tribuere videtur Non enim illos privata authâ—ritate quiâ—quam agere voluit sed pro antistâ—tum â—fficio iubet curare vt Ministri digni idones legittimè crdinentur Nec verisimile est illis plus concessum fu isse quà m Apostolis ipsis qui inconsulta Ecclesia nihil in hac causa vnquam statuerunt Nam paulo post Diaconos coram Ecclesia publicè eligunt Paulus oum Barnabá collectis viritim suffiagijs Presbyâ—eres per Ecclesias singulas ordinavisse leguntur Act. 6. 3.4 The Elections and ordinations of the Ministers of the word and of the Church ought not to bee made secretly within privat walls by a few men but publikly by the Church and in the face of the whole Church Neither doth it moove vs that Paul inan other place seemeth to give right power of chofing Bishops to Titus aloâ—e
cut off and excommunicate from the Church of Rome hee could not after that have any power as derived from them to make Ministers nor to do any other Bishoplie act Secondly wee all knowe the Church of Rome to be the very Antichrist chieflie in respect of their Clergie and Spirituall governement and most chieflie of all in respect of the Pope from whom all the rest as from the Head doe take their power and authoritie Now shall we say that very Antichrist can have power from Christ to make Ministers Or that we can have a lawfull Ministerie derived from those who had their power only from him It can not bee “ 2. Cor. 6.14 15. What communion hath light with darknes What concord hath Christ with Belial And so what hath Christ to do with Antichrist Nothing at all Thus then our consciences can have no assurance wee can not have confidence in such estate of the Ministerie But certainly Christs true Ministers among vs in Englande have a better Original thē this Wherefore this answere of our State Protestants must needes be false Yet in this answer who seeth not how the Papistes do reioyce triumph and insult Who seeth not how by this they are incouraged strengthened and multiplyed among vs exceedingly Truly it would pity a mans heart to beholde how this one point putteth life into thousandes to stande vp against Christes Gospell the libertie of their Country also For when they heare our selves openly to ascribe to the Church of Rome and to their meanes such a gift of grace even that which is our glory even the holy instrument of our faith to salvatiō for so is our Ministerie they will say if the branch be holy the root is more if the rivers be sweet the head-spring is delicious And so how can it bee chosen but the Papistes thus will bee graced and get great advātage among vs Many heere have another refuge but that also helpeth nothing Say they as Popish Baptisme is so far acknowledged by vs The last refuge of our Adversaries taken away as that with it only wee are held to bee sufficiently Baptised not to need Baptizing againe when we com from them to the Church of England So likewise wee may acknowledge the Popish Ordination to the Ministerie thus far and yet nevertheles cōdemne their Church and separate from them I answere the case is nothing like betweene Baptisme the signe of our initiation in Christ and the Calling to the Ministerie In the word there is expresse warrant for not repeating the signe of our initiation in Christ which of old was Circumcision and Baptisme now is the same though ministred by a false Ministerie and Church As wee may see in the “ 2. Chron. 30.11.18 35.17.18 Ez◠6.21 not Recircumcising of such Iewes as had receaved that signe in the Apostasie of Israell and turned frō thesame to the truth But there is no warrant at all in Gods word for any to retaine the outward Calling to the Ministerie or to stand in that power and authoritie which is derived from such a Church There is no such thing can be shewed in all Gods booke Therefore we may not conclude the like in this matter of Ordination to the Ministerie which may bee done for not repeating of Baptisme For by Gods worde Ordination may be repeated yea certainly after a Ministerie receaved in Christes true Church much more after it hath ben receaved in a false Church So that these two ordinances of Christ are nothing like in this point Wherefore out of question Ordination to the Ministerie as it is derived from Antichrist must be wholy reuounced of every faithfull man and may bee as is said renewed and repeated in Christes true Church as occasion serveth At Rome there is in it both an impiety and a nullitie In their administring of Baptisme there is not a nullitie altogeather as in that correspondent example of Israell in Apostasie before alleadged it well appeareth And this is sufficient for this though other answeres may be given also Wherefore this remayneth that when wee grant the descent of our Ministerie in Englande to come lineally from the Church and Pope of Rome which we must grant will wee nill we if wedeny it to arise essentially from the Christian peoples consent in each Congregation all the world seeth that we give the Pope a maine advantage against vs and we put into his hande a strong engine to draw vs back againe vnto him Which also he effecteth dayly vppon many among vs as woefull experience sheweth in our Land yea even vpon some of my very friends and neare acquaintance Beside this there is another point of the Churches governement The causing of Vnitie namely their Iurisdiction in cōpounding Schismes in making peace and vnitie and consent among Christian people which beeing ascribed as proper to Diocesan and Provinciall Bishops as they in England do say it is and as “ Def. 3.36 c. D. Downame with great vehemencie defendeth certainly true reason will cary it further it can not possibly stay there This wil serve a Popes turne a great deale better and to such a one it belongeth in deed as a very true and forcible ground for his Vniversall Governement over all Christians in the world if there were any Divine and Evangelicall truth in it at all But there is no truth in it Because this is no Divine and Evangelical way for Vnitie in religion viz. to constitute one Visible Head with absolute power of Spirituall governement whether Diocesan or Provinciall or Vniversall Or to take from the Christian people their free consent There is not in the Gospell any such Meanes to Vnitie It is a Humane policie a carnall device it is no institution of Christ Iesus Gods writt◠word is the cause of Vnitie Who in his word and by his word with the helpe of the Ministerie therein ordained provideth sufficiently for true peace and holy Vnitie among all his people For he saith “ Mat. 28.29 Ye erre not knowing the Scriptures And †Ioh. 5.39 Search the Scriptures for they are they which testifie of me And “ chap. 14.6 Rom. 16 17. I am the way the truth and the life Likewise the Apostle testifyeth that those are the makers of Schismes and divisions who teach and holde any thing besides the doctrine learned from the Apostles So that indeed the meanes appointed of GOD to make Vnitie in the Church is Gods word and not one Superiour over-ruling Minister over many distinct ordinarie Cōgregations which the word knoweth not But in truth such a one is the very proper cause of dissention and schisme For he not willing to submit to Gods word by his power draweth many with him yet he cannot lightly prevayle with all Wherevpon followeth dissention and schisme And then he with his cōpany being the stronger in the world may cry out loudest against those fewer that dissent from him that they are
An Attestation of many Learned Godly and famous Divines Lightes of Religion and pillars of the Gospell iustifying this doctrine viz. That the Church-governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent Also this That a true Church vnder the Gospell contayneth no more ordinary Congregations but one In the discourse whereof specially Doctor Downames also D. Bilsons chiefe matters in their writings against the same are answered Calvin Instit 4.3.2 Hee laboureth the destruction and ruine of the Church whosoever either seeketh to abolish this order and this kinde of government whereof we treate or maketh light of it as not so necessary ANNO DOM. 1613. To my Christian and beloved friends in London and elswhere in England Grace and peace be multiplied in IESVS CHRIST our Lord. THe great and long afflictions which it hath pleased God to call me vnto onlie for testifying his heavenly truth against the grievous corruptions of the Church in our Land are well knowen vnto you all my most deare and loving friends In the middest of which my troubles what comfort J have receaved from you though I publish not yet both a most thankefull remembrance thereof remaineth in my heart and with God a most precious recompence is laid vp for you at the last day I confesse I might â—og since have ben discouraged through many things which I finde both within and without me Besides I have not escaped the bytings of false brethren Also I am not ignorant that divers yea of those that least should doe not only distast but also speake evill of my innocencie without all cause In very deed they can not tell why But God the righteous Iudge seeth it who yet stil sustayneth and strengthenth my infirmitie by whose grace J am that I am Wherefore in his Name J do still beare witnesse to the truth denyed by many men do now take in hand to intreat heere concerning the Christian peoples power right of †Also coÌ„sequeÌ„tly that a true Church vnder the Gospell coÌ„taineth no mo ordinary Congregations theÌ„ one is not Diocesan properly free consent in their outward spirituall governement given theÌ„ by Christ Jesus in the Gospell And therefore to his gracious assistance heerein I also do trust In the which affaire I thinke it very behoofull for the better manifestation of my lawful and iust indeavour and no lesse needfull for Gods glory to speake to this matter propounded in this Treatise not my selfe alone but to shew openly vnto all who have but a sparke of love to the truth such an Attestation of faithfull and worthy Witnesses with mee in this matter being the maine foundation of our greatest controversie touchinge Church governement that I hope hereafter none will set against this my seeking both of mine owne and your soules good nor cavill at it but such as are too worldly and too earthly minded In my Discourse vpon this cause as touching obiections D Down Defenc Anno. 1611. chiefly I gather out of Doctor Downame such as seeme to any purpose J answer them Him beere J specially deale with because of a friend he is not long since turned from vs and become our adversarie yea the latest I thinkc which openly sheweth him selfe against vs and so is like to be now most in mens eyes also hee hath heaped togeather the most thinges that the best of such Defenders have heeretofore written Besides all this the maner of his writings is with such an “ Defence 1. pag. 16 17. 2. pag 122. insolent conceit of him selfe with such * Defence 2. pag 55. 15. contempt indignation and despite against vs as commonly is not seene in any but those that slide backe from the truth which they had once tacted of And withall though in his Defence he deale with another yet in many passages hee very sharply provoketh me in particular besides other wrongs that he hath done me well knowen For these causes both I write this that I do and I chieflie nominate him for our adversarie as in this treatise so also †In the Declaration elswhere My Christian and loving friends for whose sake most of all I labour and have laboured to make our said question which is long intricat trouble some to be short and plaine and to make the matter it selfe also appeare so waightie as indeed it is Now your partes are wisely and religionsly to ponder in your heartes and to make vse of this same As the Apostle spake to Timothie so do I vnto you Consider Brethren what I say and the Lord give you vnderstanding in all things Amen Iuly 18. Anno 1612. Yours ever in the Lord HENRY IACOB The contents of this Booke divided into Nine Chapters CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Churche governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it Pag. 9. CHAP. II. The Methode and order of this Treatise Pag. 20. CHAP. III. The Testimonies of many particular late Writers of blessed memorie making for vs in this matter Pag. 21. CHAP. IIII. The publike consent of many late yet excellent Churches heerein with vs. Pag. 48. CHAP. V. The Testimonies practise of the best Antiquitie after the New Testament heerin likewise with vs. Pag. 52 CHAP. VI. Our very Adversaries sometimes do acknowledge with vs the truth of this doctrine in plaine termes and sometimes to the same full effect specially when they deale against the Papistes Pag. 70. CHAP. VII Consequences of exceeding great importance following vpon the peoples free consent in their Church-governement inconveniences intollerable following from the contrary Pag. 84. CHAP. VIII An answer to divers chiefe Obiections of the Adversaries of this cause noting also briefly their immodest not Christian like reproches against this Evangelicall doctrine Pag. 199. CHAP. IX A short Advertisement to the vpright hearted and Christian Reader touching this Writing and Cause Pag. 316. An Attestation of many Learned Godly and Famous Divines Lightes of Religion pillars of the Gospell instifying this doctrine viz. That the Church government ought to be alwayes with the peoples free consent c. CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Church-governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it WHEREAS many thinges at divers and sundrie times heeretofore have ben writteÌ„ which prove a plaine necessitie by Gods Word to reforme the Church Church-governement now in England verily among them all there is almost no other point so evident so direct and ful to this purpose that is Chap. 1. none in a maner so absolutly importeth the saide necessitie of reformation as this doth which is vtterly wanting among vs namâ—ly That the Church-governement ought tâ—â—â—e exercised alwayes with the peoples free consent One or two maâ—â—â— grounds of our whole controversie It
they who lately published that book of D. Bils in Latin so to do vnles they meant to shew abroad further his most impertineÌ„t ambiguous vncertain writing yet fraught with bitternes enough against vs. In a word we desire that all men should know that our question is not whether Bishops and their governement be Apostolicall about the proving whereof the greatest part of these twoo Doctors bookes are spent Further though we denie Diocesan Provinciall Bishops of any sort to bee Apostolical yet we do not “ See Reas for Reform Pag. 7. 38 simply deny but that some kinde of them also may bee lawfull were it not that certaine waightie circumstances in these our dayes do stande against them Yea there are Circumstances now verie evident and pregnant against the best sort of Diocesan Bishops which were not in 200. or 300. yeares after Christ So that no reason can be made because they were lawfull in the second or third age therefore they are lawfull now The case being thus it is to be noted that the DD. do not propound the true question betwene vs. For if the peoples free coÌ„sent in their owne Church-governement were not as it is Christs ordinaÌ„ce in the New Testament certainly no CircuÌ„stance nor any thing els could make Diocesan or Provinciall Bishops at all reproveable For which cause the true question indeed betwene the Prelacie and vs or the principal maine question is Whether the people ought to have alwaies their free coÌ„sent in their owne Church government But this specially “ See his Defen 1 38.47 4.80.99 D. Downame putteth away from him with high disdaine coÌ„tempt rayling hatefull accusations and exclamations So that with this hee will not vouchsafe to medle Wherein truely we may see him to be I can not say learned but a cunning bolde and exquisite Sophister And this may be in generall a sufficient Answer even to his whole Defence Although for some other respectes I hope some body will one day examine his particular passages more exactly in a place for the purpose But to our point in hand We cleerâ—y see by this that it is the peoples coÌ„â—ent in the affaires of their owne spiâ—ituall that is Church governement which maketh the matter putteth the difference in deed betweene the Ecclesiasticall Reformation which in all dutifulnes wee seeke and that Church-governement which the L. Bishops in Engl. do exercise I say this concerning the peoples right heerein is it which toncheth the life of our coÌ„troversie Where vnderstand Note that I meane only such people as are not ignorant in religion nor scandalous in their life For only of such Christes Visible Church ought to consist Well to proceed theÌ„ with our point Questionles hence it is that generally the Adversaries of the forenamed Reformation do so strangly reiect yea so hatefully resist and strive against this same Christian doctrine heere propouÌ„ded coÌ„cerning the churches only true governement with the peoples free coÌ„sent as they do Wherein they expresse shew litle ChristiaÌ„ patieÌ„ce for they prosecute those that hold teach the same though out of meere conscience with all bitter reproches base skoffings iniurious slanders and vnmercifull dealings And all this it is plaine not for any manner of evill that they finde in this doctrine or for any incoÌ„venience therin For in truth there is none at all as partly I have shewed “ Reas. for reform pag. 28 heretofore it will further be manifested heereafter But they so hate this doctrine only because of the inevitable consequence of the said reformation which it bringeth with it Which crosseth overturneth wholy their divers enormous worldly carnall desires as any man that looketh into the case may easily see Howsoever it be yet the truth and the agreeablenes heereof with the holy Gospell of Iesus Christ with the assuring of our soules in the way to eternall life as it hath appeared to the world ever since the discovery of Antichrist more cleerely then it did for many yeres before so doubtles it will more and more appeare yet still be made further manifest to al men even where the Gospell is receaved as it is in many places yet not so sincerely as it ought to be See chapt 7. pag. 156. c. For my part because I well perceave that the Antichristian idolatrie and tyrannie of the Church of Rome caÌ„not by Divinitie be souÌ„dly resisted as experience in time will shew neyther was it resisted by our Forefathers at the beginning but by maintayning this Evangelicall point of doctrine among others therefore I have coÌ„descended the more willingly after diligent inquirie thereinto to approve the said point of doctrine viz. that the Church governement ought to be exercised alwayes with the peoples free consent Which also even for “ For that the Papa cie els will come in See Chap. 7. this same cause I can not but beleeve to be the holy ordinance of Iesus Christ for his Church vnder the Gospel and to have ben delivered vnto vs by the Apostles in their perpetuall practise of Church-governement But specially seeing for the same we have the most sure evidence of Gods word in the New Testament which I †Argnm. 3. 9. of the Divine beginning of Chrsts Visible church Declarat pag. 20 â—1 Reas. for Reform pag. 45. 46 47. 48. have heeretofore gathered and observed at large Secondly seeing we have for it a plentifull and cleere Attestation of many Learned Godly and famous Divines both New and Old confirming our faith and strengthening our consciences therein Which Attestation I have thought it needfull at this time and in this place to gather and produce for many causes First my desire is that it may ly open to the sight of all men what a great holy agreement of good men heerein we have which being added to the forenoted fundameÌ„tal certaintie thereof in Gods word giveth so full a satisfaction to every good Christian that who can desire more Secondly all ChristiaÌ„ Civill Magistrates may heereby take good content and be satisfyed touching the innocencie of this way in the Church governement which we holde For when they shall see with what a cloud of such witnesses we are coÌ„passed in defence of this matter they can not imagine any inconvenience by it to their governement notwithstanding all the clamours and invectives of partiall Adversaries against it Lastly heereby also our adversaries virulent tongues and pens if it be possible may bee ashamed to abuse vs as they do with al kinde of vnworthy reproches and slanders when they shall see whom they hate and persecute revile togeather with vs. Wherefore for the publishing of this matter there appeareth every way very great and necessarie reason CHAP. II. The Method and order of this Treatise NOw heerein I purpose to proceed thus First I will shew who among the New Writers are our Maisters Teachers in this point of doctrine
and whose faith wee follow therein whom I put first namely for their singular perspicuitie and resolutnes in it Then I will rehearse the practise of the most ancient times after the Apostles After that I will remember our very adversaries consent with vs heerein sometimes Then I will shew some certaine firme consequences whiche follow from this ground necessarily also some true great inconveniences in reâ—ecting this doctrine Moreover I will answer some of the adversaries chiefest obiections noting also briefly their immodest and vnchristian reproches against this Evangelicall truth And finally adding a brief advertisement touching this cause we will commit the whole coÌ„sideration thereof to the vpright hearted and discreet Christian Reader CHAP. III. The testimonies of many particular late Writers of blessed memorie making for vs in this matter BEGINNING therefore with the New Writers I iudge it meet and convenient to alleage in the formost place the resolut determination of Maister Beza Beza because he of al others is thought by some vnadvised persons to be most against vs in this point Now hee disputing this question at large in his Epist 8â— setteth downe this conclusion Populo invito nihil obtrudatur Let nothing be imposed on the people or Congregation agâ—aâ—t their willes Then the which verily we desire no more this is all in substance that we seek in our assertion Againe vnles it bee so the Church-governement either is a Monarchie or a verie Oligarchie But Maister Beza expresly condemneth both these and the later namely on Math. ca. 18.17 Wherefore howsoever Maister Beza interpreteth some things otherwise then we do vseth some times other phrases then we perhaps do thinke so fit or so frequently to be vsed yet touching this point in question hee agreeth wholy with vs in substance and in effect For let this which he in these wordes setteth downe be yeelded vnto vs theÌ„ wee are satisfyed for the substance of Church-governemeÌ„t To which purpose Maister Beza saith also in Confes 5.35 The Apostles intended in the Churches which they planted that no Pastor should bee obtruded on a flocke against their willes Yet moreover I pray the Reader to note that even hee also strongly maintayneth this right of the people in the affayres of their soules many tymes in more free and large termes As where he saith “ Confes 5.34 I finde no where in any Christian Church built vp that any is promoted either to the Ministerie of the word or Deaconship or Eldership any other way then by a publike and free election And †Sect 35. I repeat againe that which I said before It was never receaved in Christian Churches established that any should be admitted to an Ecclesiastscall function but being freely and lawfully chosen of that Church which it concerneth Againe “ ibid. Pastors are not to be chosen without the consent of the whole Church Also * ibid. They whosoever they are bring Tyrannie into the Church if they call any man to a publike function at their owne will the consent of the multitude being neglected Againe “ ibid. Presbyters were chosen by the voyces at least by the allowance of the whole assembly Vpon the Act. 14.23 he saith See Oecumen in hunc loc Also Badei Commentar The force of this word Chirotonein is to be noted that wee way know Paul and Barnabas did nothing by their private will neither exercised any tyrannie in the Church He meaneth that they here made Ministers by the peoples voyces or free consent not otherwise And vpon 1. Time 5.22 All the authoritiâ— of making Ministers was not in Timothie alone but election being made by the consent of the whole Church then the President of the assemblie did consecrate him by laying on of handes And on 2. Cor. 2.8 By the publike consent of the Church declare that you embrace that penitent sinner againe as a brother even as by the publike iudgement of the Church he was cast out In all the which it is easie to see Maister Bezaes minde and resolution in this question to bee cleerely with vs. As for that which D. Downame “ Defens 4. pag. 81. obiecteth out of him where he calleth one Morellius †Deâ—grad Ministr 6.23 Fanaticall because he pleaded in like maner for the popular governement The D. abuseth Beza and vs all Morellius pleaded for the popular governement in far vnlike maner He sought in Churches perfectly established to bring all things in particular and ordinarily to the peoples hearing examining iudging and voice-giving But neither Beza nor we intend so Wee acknowledge that the ordinarie sway of all Ecclesiasticall authoritie ought to bee in the true Bishop or Pastour of the church and we affirme that right wel so it may bee although never anie thing be imposed on the Church by him against their willes Which thing D. Downame him selfe also acknowledgeth may be and “ Def. 4. p. 21 was heeretofore in a state of the Church * Rather about 420. about 400. yeres after Christ which hee seemeth to allow of Saving that he cunningly falsifyeth the wordes of the Councill which there he mentioneth to wit in saying the assent or connivence of the people where the Councill saith “ Concil Carth. 4. Can. 22. the assent and connivence But to proceed By this before alleaged all men may see Maist Bezaes iudgement in this cause to be as I said cleerely with vs. And so much concerning him In the second place we will consider Maister Calvin 2. Calvin a Pastor and Guide of the Church of Geneva before Mai. Beza Hee also every where in all his writings is a most earnest patron of this point which heere we professe I will note certain of his sentences to this purpose Saith he “ Instit 4.5.15 Est haec ex verbo Dei legitima Ministri vocatio vhi ex populi consensu approbatione creant qui visi suerint idonei Preesse autem Electioni debent alij Pastores nequid per levitatem vel per malae studia vet per tumultum à multitudine peccetur This is the lawfull calling of a Minister by the word of God where they which seeme fit are created by the consent and approbation of the people Indeed other Pastors ought to moderate and order the Election least the multitude should offend through lightues or ill affection or tumult And a litle before Videmus ipsum Paulum ex populi suffragijs Episcopos creare solitum We see that Paul him selfe was wont to create Bishops by the voyce giving of the people Againe Falluntur qui putant vel Timotheum Ephesi vei Titum in Creta regnum exercuisse vt suo vterque arbiâ—rio omnia disponeret Praefuerunt enim tantum vt bonis salutaribus consilijs populâ— praeirent non vt soli exclusis alijs onnibus agerent quod placereÌ„t They are deceaved who thinke either that Timothie at Ephesus or Titus in Crete did
or to Timothie For he would not that they should do any thing by their privat authorâ—tie but he commaundeth them to take care that worthy and fit Ministers bee ordayned aâ—cording to the office of Guides and Overseers Nâ—ither is it likely that more was graunted to them then to the Apostles themselves who determined nothing in this cause at any time without the churches cousaill or witbout taking the churches advise For a little after they both chose Deacons publikly in the preseÌ„ce of the church and Paul with Barnabas are read to have ordayned Presbyters throughout every Church gathering the voyces of every maÌ„ Act 6 3.4 Arguitur exemple hoc corruptissimus idemque perniciosissimus Ministros eligends mos quem tam seculis aliquot hâc in causa imperâ—um obtinuisse constat Quofit vt non raro vâ—us aliquis in pluribus Ecclesijs privata authoritate Ministros Eligat Ordinet Quaete potissimum ab Abbatibus Episcopis Prapositis peccaiur Nec meitùs rem administrant nonnulli inter eos qui Evangelij nomine gloriantur Ecclesiarum reformatores baberi volunt Dum enim isis malè vsurpata possessione Monachos Episcopos vt par est eijeiunt Ecclesijstamen libertatem illorum tyrannide ereptam non restituunt Sed pro suâ— arbitrio administrant quae olim ab Episcopis Monachis administrari solebant Quod malum nisi brevi reprimatur Simoniâ—m exitialem omnis Ecclesiasticae Disciplina confusionem nobis pariet Atque omne boâ— Romanis Pontificibus debetur c. Maximè Calisto secundo ex quo tempore Ecclesia libertas ceu lethali morbo contabescens tandem in vniversum evanuit Quam quicunque restitutam volunt sive illi verbi Ministri sint sive Magistratus huc incumbendum sibi esse sciant vt vetus Ministrorum eligendorum consuetudo in ducatur By this example is reproved that most corrupt also most pernicious manner of chosing Ministers which it is manifest hath gotteÌ„ DominioÌ„ Lordly rule in this affaire now these certaine ages Whereby it is that not seldome one both choseth and ordayneth Ministers in many Churches by his privat authoritie Wherein chieflic the Abbots As in England c. Bishops and Rulers offende Neither do divers others among those that glorie in the name of the Gospell and would be counted Reformers of Churches order this matter better For while they put foorth the Monkes Bishops as it is meete they should out of their possession wickedly vsurped yet the libertie which they tooke away from their tyrannie they restore not to the Churches but administer those thinges at their owne will which in time past were wont to bee administred by the Bishops and Monkes Which evill vnles it bee shortly repressed it will bring foorth among vs both Simonie and also a deadly confusion of all Church Dâ—â—ciplice And all this wee have from the Bishops of Rome c. Chieflie from Calistus the second FroÌ„ which time the Churches libertie as it were languishing with a deadly sicknes at last vanished away wholy Which whosoever do desire that it may be restored whether they be Ministers or Magistrates let them know they must labour for this that the old custome of chosing Ministers bee brought in againe 11. Vrsimus Vnto these we will adde Vrsinus who teacheth thus Math. 18.17 If he refuse to heare the Church “ Catech. pa. 799.800 Printed at Oxfor An. 1589 let him be vnto thee as a Heathen a Publican In these wordes Christ expresly commaundeth all whosoever beeing after this sort admonished by the Church will not repent to bee by the common consent of the Church excommunicated vntill they repent And whosoever are excommunicated they againe professing and shewing in their actions amendment are altogeather in lake sort receaved into the Church as they were exiled from it namely by the iudgement of the Elders by the consent of the Church and the authoritie of Christ and the Scripture And that deâ—untiation whereby one is excommunicated is not in the power of the Minister of the Church but in the power of the Church and is done in the name of the Church because this Commandment was given by Christ vnto the church For he saith expresly Tel the Church 12. Danaus In 1 Tim. 5.22 Heere also Danaus is worthie to bee remembred He saith Approbatio eligendi Ministri ad plebem totum populum Ecclesia sanè pertinet The approbation of the Minister to bee chosen pertayneth truly to the whole people of the Church Againe Plebem non esse ab ordinationibâ— vocandorum preficiendorum muneribu Ecclesiasticis excludâ—ndam demonstant examplâ— veteris Ecclesiae c. That the people â—ught not to bee excluded from the ordinations of Ministers the examâ—les of the old Church do demonstrat in which without doubt the Election by voyces of the whole Church was vsed as it is easie to be shewed in Act 6. 14. Therefore they do perfidiously deprive the Church of her right Perfidie who thrust a Pastor on a people without their knowledge and consent For they do the Church the greatest iniurie when they spoile her of her iudgement and voyce giving Sacrilege or Church robbing Who therefore are truly to bee called Sacrilegious or Church-robbers Neither indeed is he a lawful Pastor which is over a flocke being ignorant of his comming or against their will or not consenting Which presently after he sticketh not to applie to the callings of the Ministers in England saying Ex his omnibus apparet quam nulla sit vel non legitima corum verbi Ministrorum Vocatio c. By all this it appeareth how that calling of Ministers is none or not lawfull which is made by the authoritie letters commaundement and iudgement of the King alone or Queene or the Patrone or Bishop or Archbishop c. veluti in mediâ Angliâ as it is vsed in England Id quod dolendum est which I speake with greefe Moreover concerning Excommunication he saith “ In vers 1. Hac iurisdictio est totuâ— quidem Ecclesia ratione potestatis Prepositotum autem ratione exercitij adminisirationis This iurisdiction is the whole Churâ—hes in respect of the power thereof but it beâ—ongeth to the Guides of the Church in respect â—f administring it namely populo assentiente with the peoples consent as hee addeth a â—ittle after And againe Executioni puâ—lica censura intervenire debet notitia conâ—ensus Ecclesia The knowledge and consent of the Church ought to be in the execution of the publike censure 13. Tilenus Neither shall Tilenus testimonie bee vnremembred who aunswering the Coâ—nt Lavl that required him to shew what calling Calvin had saith “ Respons ad Com Lavallium quest 3 The people of Geneva professing the Gospel did first call Farel to be their Pastor then he they called Calvin to be likewise Applying Ciprians sentence thervnto who avoucheth “ Epist
these are enough CHAP. IIII. The publike consent of many late yet excellent Churches heerein with vs. NEvertheles yet I will not spare to adde heerevnto also certain publike voyces of most famous Churches The CoÌ„sestion of the Bohemian Churches hath these words “ Bohemie Confess cap. 〈◊〉 AnimaruÌ„ Curatoribus singulis Ecclesiasticis CoÌ„munitatibus sive parvae sint sive magna Claves concreditae sunt concessae Sic Dominus dixit Ecclesiâ—s Amen dico vobis quacunque ligaveritis in teria erunt ligata in coelo quaecunque solveritis in terra erunt soluta in coelo Et mox Nam vbi duo aut tres congregati fuerint in nomine meo ibi in medio eorum sum The Keyes that is Ecclesiastical governement are given in trust and graunted to the Pastors and to every Ecclesiasticall Communaltie that is ordinarie Congregation whether they bee smal or great So the Lord said to the Churches Verily I say vnto you Whatsoever you binde in earth shal be bound in heaven and whatsoever you loose in earth shalbâ— loosed in heaven And by and by For where two or three shal be gathered togeather in my name there am I in the middest of them The Helvetian Confession saith Helvet confess .. prior Artic 17. Quae cùm vera Dei Electio sit Ecclesiae suffragio Sacerdotis manuum impositione rectè comprobatur Which when it is Gods true ElectioÌ„ it is rightly approoved by the Churches voyce-giving and the laying on of handes of the Minister The Genevian Liturgie setteth downe expreslie Genev. the peoples consent to be necessarie both in their Calling of Ministers and Excommunication of impenitent offenders Beza also witnesseth the same vse in the Elections at Geneva and likewise in other places where there are free Churches Saith he “ Bez. de grad Minist cap 11. Presbyters heere are chosen not without the knowledge and consent of the people So every where in other free Churches according to the condition of the place the like choice is made Elswhere also he saith of the same thus †Annotat in Act. â—4 2â— Habemus nos Dei beneficâ—o certas nostrae vocationis notas legitimo ab Ecclesijs nostris vita doctrinae testimonio ernati ab yÌ„sdemelects ac demurn etiaâ— in nostro ministerio confirmats Cus Domiaâ—â— vt spero eâ—ectis tum furibus tum mercenarijs benedicet Wee have by Gods goodnesâ— certain notes of our Calling having good testimoâ—e from our Churches both for our life and doctrine and being by them Chosen and Confirmed also in our Ministerie Which I hope the Lord will blesse when hee will caâ—â— out both theeves and hirelings According to this order out of question the Savoyan Churches Savey and the French also generally are constituted French Which the French Liturgie doth likewise prove The Churches of Scotland before the late wofull breaking off from their former consent did approove the same publike Order of the Churches of France and Geneva aforesaid Scottish Also the publike Order set forth in the Low countreis consenteth herewith Belgiâ— The Synod of Middelburgh Anno 15â—1 decreeth thus of the Chosing of Ministers “ Artiâ— Electio sit penes Ecclesiam fiat per suffiagium in templo publicè Let the Election of the Ministers bee in the power of the Church and let it be done by voyces publikely in the Temple Afterward they determine thus Nulla Ecclesia nullus Minister Nullus Senior nulluâ— Diaconus vllum â—abeat primatum super alterum No Church no Minister no Elder no Deacon may have any kinde of primacie above other Chap 4. The Synod of Tilleburgh in Nasovia Anno 1582 Nasson receaveth these Points for them selves also as Zepperus sheweth in the end of his Politia Ecclesiastica There is a publike Order publâ—â—ed in Middelburgh Anno 1602. agreeing withall the former which touching the Chosing of Ministers saith thus The partie as chosen with the free consent of the Ministers Elders and the whole Congregation to be ordayned is to frame his Sermon c. Touching Deposing of them thus By the like authoritie as he was elected he is to be Deposed Touching Excommunication thus It is ordayned that nothing be attempted in that behalfe without the determination of the whole Congregation Wherevnto the Churches vnder the Palsgrave do agree Palatin in whose publike Catechisme thus we read “ In the end of part â— The Church by the commandement of Christ his Apostles vsing the Keyes ought tâ—o drive the wicked from this Supper till they shall repent and change their maners Which Vrsinus the approved interpreter therof doth shew to be with the peoples free consent as “ pag. 41. before out of Vrsmus wee observed Finally Other churches this same is allowed by those Churches also which follow Luther according to Chemnicius testimonie of them “ pag. 47. before alleaged Chap. 5. where at least he signifieth that many of them do allow it Which many other churches besides do also whoÌ„ here I name not Hitherto I have truly and plainly declared as touching these later times who they are who have ben our Maister Teachers in this matter of the Church constitution governement viz. that it ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent Verily now it appeareth I hope that we neede not bee ashamed either of these noble lights of Religion or of this doctrine which manifestly wee have learned and receaved from such worthies CHAP. V. The Testimonies and practise of the best Antiquitie after the New Testament heerein likewise with vs. HOwbeit furthermore that it may not bee thought noveltie or vnbeseeming Christian Religion although no honest maÌ„ will once think so of any thing which such a vniforme coÌ„sent of so renowned late Christians doth iustifie yet I iudge it very coÌ„ venient to produce also some testimonies of the most ancient times of Christianitie after the Apostles downe-ward even while anie soundnes of the Gospell did openly shew it selfe in the world I say such testimonies I purpose heeâ—e to shew of famous Christians as have ben alwayes continually after the Apostles by which the practise of the peoples free consent in their Church governement is approoved yea in peace as well as in persecution till the tyrannie of Antichrist would beare it no longer in any publike state And this God willing I shall performe in this maner To begin therefore we will first observe the Church of Ierusalems practise in this point immediatly after the decease of the Apostle Iames that dyed there as Eusebius recordeth Saith â—ee Annâ— circôter 70. “ Euseb 3.10 After Iames was dead it is reported that the Apostles Disciples out of all places neare about Ierusalem came togeather into one and tooke counsaill togeather who might bee iudged worthy to suâ—ceed in Iames his plaâ—e Therefore all with one consent did thinke Simeon the sonne of Cleophas
meet and able to have the governement of the Church there And againe out of Egesippus “ 4. â—1 After that Iames was slame Simeon the soâ—e of Cleophas was made Bishop whom in tâ—esecond place all the Disciples appointed by voyces to that governement This was the first most notable exaÌ„ple of the Christians pract se in this matter neither caÌ„â—â—â— we read of any neerer to the Apostles after the times of the New TestameÌ„t then this Also wee see it was in the very Mother Church of all Christianitie Wherefore this order of Calling to the ministerie rather then any later is most worthy yea necessary to be observed and imitated by vs every where and for ever The like we read of there againe thus “ 6â— Anno 205. When Narcissiâ— the Bishop had withdrawne himselfe was gone no man knew whither they who governed the neighbour Churches thought good to make another Bishop But how By the peoples voyces And so Dius was chosen Afterward Narcissus returning the Brethren desired him to take againâ— the governement of the Church Vnto whom was adioyned Alexander for his fellow the people of Ierusalem with the common consent of the neighbour Bishops constrayning him necessarily to tary with them These were the meanes that made these Ministers Ignatius of Antioch teacheth and saith to the Church at Philadelphia that “ Ignat. ad Philad It was meâ—te for them as being a Church of God Anno 112. by voices to chose their Bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It can not be denied but that this writer sheweth in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Lifting vp of hands â—n thepeoples voyce giving that Elections of Ministers were then made by the peoples free choyce Seeing he signifyeth Ordination and Laying on of handes by another proper word viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The practise of the Church of Rome was also the same in this matter Anno 240. Of which we read ' Euseb 6.2 When all the Brethren were come togeather in the Church for the purpose to chose a Bishop whose place now was voyd the whole people with one consent cryed that Fabianus was worthy of that dignitie and presently he was placed in the same Afterward againe we read of Cornelius that he was chosen in like maner For so writeth Cyprian of him saying †Cyprian Epist 4.2 Factus est Cornelius Episcopus de Dei Christs eius iudicio de plebis qua tune affuit suffragio c. Cornelius was made Bishop by the iudgement of God and his Christ by the voyce giving of the people which was then present c In an other place also he saith Hee was †3.13 de Dei iudtcio Cleri ac Plebis suffragio ordinatus Ordayned by the iudgement of God and by the voyces of the Clergie and people The practise of the Church of Carthage was the same Anno â—5â— as Cyprian also speaking of him self sheweth saying that he was chosen “ Cyprian Epist 1.3 Populi vniversi suffragio in pace by the voyce-giving of the whole people in peace and quietly also he calleth this †1.8 their voyce giving Gods iudgement And he writeth of another Church in Afrike at Legio as we may gather that there one Sabinus was made Bishop †1.4 de vniversae fraternstatis suffragio by the voyce-giving of the whole brotherhood and by the iudgement of the Bishops that were come togeather But above all other that place in Cyprian is singular for our purpose where his owne iudgement and sentence with many other Bishops besides is to bee noted concerning this power and right of the people It is in this same Epistle a litle before thus “ Ibidem viz. 1.4 Plebs obsequens praeceptis Dominicis Deum metuens a peccatore praeposito separate se debet nec se ad sacrilegi Sacerdotis sacrificsa miscere cum ipsa maximè babeat poteslatem vel eligendi dignos Sacerdotes vel indignos recusandi Quod ipsum videmus de Divina authoritate descendere c. A people obeying the Lords Commandementes and fearing God ought to separate them selves from a wickeâ— Minister and not ioyne them selves to the Divine Service of a Sacrilegious Priest seeing they the people chiefly have power to chose worthy Ministers and to refuse vnworthy ones Which thing also we see cometh fiâ— Divine authoritie c. Lo what Cyprians iudgement is of the peoples power right in the making of Ministers He with divers other his fellow-Bishops doth heere professe that it cometh froÌ„ Divine authoritie So before he called it Gods iudgement and his Christes What can be more full and absolute to our purpose then this The same also he holdeth touching the peoples power in Church ceÌ„sures As where he willeth Stephan Bishop of Rome to write “ Epist 3.14 ad plebem Arelate consistentem to the people at Arles in France His intent is heere that their Novatian Bishop Martianus should bee removed and another set in his place by them togeather with Stephans helpe And elswhere touching one Victor a Presbyter fallen from the Church returned againe Cyprian greatly misliketh rebuketh Therapius the Bishop for receaving him †3.8 sine petitu conscientia plebis without the desire knowledge of the people and adviseth him that hee do so no more And as touching himselfe hee sheweth in many places his owne constant practise to be such also Or without the desire c conscience of the people First of some rash and proud Presbyters hee saith if they persisted in their scandalous behaviour they should answer it “ 3.14 apud plebe vniversam before all the people as iudges with himselfe others of their misdemeanor Againe writing severally to his people about some that desired to bee reconciled to the Church at Carthage he saith “ 3.16 Examinabuntur singula praese itibus iudicantibus vobis Every thing shal be examined you the people being present and iudging of it And thus hee meaneth where he saith hee must †3 1â— dispomere omnia consilij communis religione disoose all things by a religious observing of such common advise Lo he putteth acknowledgeth Religion heerein And therfore it is that to a few Presbyters of his Church who had written to him being then absent from Carthage about som of his church affaires he saith He could not so much as write backe to theÌ„ therof “ 3.10 Seeing he had determined to do nothing privatly of his owne minde without the Presbyters counsaill and the peoples consent And promiseth that when hee should returne he will handle matters in common both such as were past while hee was absent and also such as were to come after his returne Yea and therfore in an other place he saith “ 3.19 Praiudicare ego solum mihi rem communem vendicare non audeo I dare not praeiudge
times places and persons without any limitation The like proofe is that also in another text viz. †Hebr. 9. â—â— No man taketh this honour to him selfe but be that is called of God as Aaron was But I wil presse this no further For I suppose every Christian advised will acknowledge it and I have shewed it at large in a speciall treatise for the purpose viz. The Divine beginning and institution of Christes true visible Ministeriall Church Secondly If Chist him selfe have seated the power of Ordination and Iurisdiction in the whole CoÌ„gregation at any time then it is certain that so much is contained some-where in the New Testament This is no Vnwritten Tradition neither can be by any meanes if Christ him selfe be the Author heereof as before we have seene that he is Thirdly This being contayned in the New Testament viz. that Christ him selfe hath seated the power of ordination iurisdiction in the whole body of a particular CoÌ„gregation in the case of necessitie it is certain then that it is contained in those speciall places which after many other worthy Divines I have to this purpose cited and alleaged in the third and 9. Arguments of my forenamed Treatise of the Divine beginning and instituâ—â—â— of Christs true visible Ministerial Church For there can bee no other instance shewed at least none can bee shewed of any other tenor then those are Which speciall places are these Math. 18.17 and 1. Cor. 5.13 2. Thes 3.14 and 2. Co. 2.8 Also Act. 14.23 Act. 6.3.5.6 Act. 1.23.26 and Act. 15.22.25.28 as it appeareth in the foresaid Arguments of the said Treatise Fourthly these places of Christes Testament shewing that Christ hath seated the power of ordination and iurisdiction in the whole particular CoÌ„gregation theÌ„ it must needes be that these shew the said whole Congregation to have that power and right not in the case of necessitie only but even alwayes at all seasons This likewise cannot be denyed For in these speciall places there is no restraint of this power and right in the Congregation no abridging thereof no tying it to the case of necessitie only but they shew it to be in the people from God indefinitly and without limitation Neither is it otherwise to be found in Christes Testament any where els Wherefore by no meanes may men restraine that which God hath given indefinitly Nor take that away from â—is people at any time which he hath given them simply 2. Cor 2.24 What is proud â—lesh and bloud to inhibit or lessen Christs vnlimited free graunt gracious gift to his Church Or how can our soules rest assured wheÌ„ we yeeld to such presumption of men Wherevpon wee may fee that this restraining clause of our Doctor heere added that this acknowledgement of his is not true of any particular Congregation but in pase of necessitie is both a false and absurd addition False as beeing contrary to the generalitie of those speciall places of Christes Testament above mentioned absurd as implying by necessary consequence a contradiction to himselfe in one the same sentence For his present acknowledgement such as it is implyeth the contrary to this his limitation by necessarie consequence as before in this fourth point I have shewed Fiftly this power of Ordination and Iurisdiction being by Christ seated in the whole Congregation and that alwayes surely then it must needs be in them only And so I vnderstand in another place “ Declaâ—â—â— Pag. â— 35. where I say that this power is coÌ„vertible with the CoÌ„gregation I affirme therefore that this power indeed is onely in the whole Congregation Although D. D. Downame hath skill to go two ways to Heaven for the true Church-governemeÌ„t is the way to heaveÌ„ yet our good holy and wise God approoveth but one way as where he saith “ Isa 30.21 This is the way walke ye in it Turne not therefrom neither to the right hande nor to the less And where Christ saith * Ioh. 14.6 I am the way the truth and the life He alloweth simply but one way even that which is his owne ordinance and none other Vas via vna veritas One way one truth Also Veritas simplex error autem multiplex Truth is but one Error is manifold Wherefore it can not be but the power of Ordination and Iurisdiction being by Christ seated in the whole Congregation it is also only in them Heere the adversaries thinke they have a great advantage against vs. They say it appeareth in the Scripture that “ 1. Tim. 5.22 Tamothie and †Tit. 1.5 Titus had power of Ordination and iurisdiction Therefore only the CoÌ„gregations had not that power I answer This consequence is vtterly false it followeth not at all For Timothie Titus had the power of Ordination and iurisdiction with the Congregations Now the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ only had power not without them Being partes of them and being present in them for the time not being personally out of them or absent froÌ„ them So as the L. Bishops do exercise their power in England Againe as Paul saith to the Corinthians that “ 2 Cor â— 24 he was not 〈◊〉 Lord over their faith but a helper to them for their â—oy So these viz. Timothia and Titus in the Congregations were not Lords but they were Helpers to them in the managing of these affaires They did not alone without the Congregations concurrence what themselves listed but they ordered guided the Congregations in this their busines as Directors and chiefe Counsellors and as the most worthie to bee Actors thereof for them And the like was the power of the Apostles also towards the Congregations It was such I say and none other Indeed in their Doctrine and teaching they by them selves alone instructed them sometime commaunded them in the name of Christ but in outward governement they did not any thing alone or Lordly that is without the Congregations free consent Wherefore much rather the power of all ordinarie true Bishops and Pastors is such and no greater They have power of Ordination and iurisdiction but yet evermore with the Congregations presence and free consent as their instruments doing their actes in the Churches name and by their authoritie not in their owne name noâ— solely as Lords So it remayneth evident that Bishops primitively yea Timothie and Titus and the Apostleâ— themselves had power of ordinarie Church governement and yet the Congregations only had this power Because they evermore were partes of the Congregations in them when they had and vsed their power Sixtly it followeth also necessarily from hence that the power of Ordination and iurisdiction is in the body of the Congregation Substantially Essentially and Fundamentally after Christ and the Congregation may bee truly said in such respect to do performe those actions the Bishops and Guides do these actions Instrumentally and Ministerially and no otherwise then in the Congregations name and by their authoritie as
people of every Church alwayes ought to have by Christes and the Apostles ordinaÌ„ce as “ Pag. 19. chap. 3.4.5 before we have seene Nay to come nearer No proper and perfect Diocesan Church or larger ever did or doth admit the peoples free consent in their ordinarie governement Vniversally and alwayes it is so indeed it can not be otherwise For where each ordinarie Congregation hath their free consent in their ordinarie governement there certainly each Congregation is an intire and independent Body politike Spirituall and is indued with power in it selfe immediatly vnder Christ And so every of them are true proper Churches So that these Congregations admit not where they are any proper Diocesan Church or larger neither doth the proper Diocesan Church or larger admit intire and independent ordinary CoÌ„gregations Which as I said have their free consent in their ordinary governement They are indeed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as “ Reas. for 〈◊〉 form pag. 23.25 cannot stand together possibly And therfore it is likewise that which heretofore †Ibid pag. 8â— I have affirmed and so do still in the Newe Testament there is not any Diocesan Church or larger to be found Which point though I have in my Declaration proved it by this and 6. other reasons yet I will heere draw it into this Syllogisme againe No Church holding the peoples free consent in their ordinary governement with iust and decent order is Diocesan or larger Every Visible Church in the New Testament holdeth the peoples free consent in their ordinary governement with iust and decent order Therfore No Visible Church in the New Testament is Diocesan or larger The first proposition is manifest of it selfe and I have shewed it more “ Pag. 84 8â— 86. c. fully before The Assumption or 2. proposition is at large proved confirmed in those places which are noted in the margin before viz. pag. 19. and are mentioned againe particularly pag. 76. To which purpose also the whole 3.4 5. chap. do helpe Where I am to adde moreover that this Conclusion is true not only in the New Testament but also in the ages following a long while after That is no such Diocesan churches were fouÌ„d till 420. yeres after Christ yea til 680. and more were past Which I shewed before in the end of the fift Chap. as also I touched it in my Declaration pag. 24.25 But let it be remembred that heere I speake precisely of proper Diocesan Churches and larger There is therefore necessarily a distinction to be made of Diocesan Churches There are proper Diocesan Churches and larger there are improper The proper Diocesan Church and larger is where the people have no power freely to consent in the affaires of their ordinarie Church governement The improper Diocesan Church and larger is where although there be a kinde of Diocesan or larger Consociation of many ordinarie CoÌ„gregations in Spirituall governement vnder one generall Presidencie or Superioritie yet the ordinarie Congregations have their free consent at least they have nothing by their Spirituall Governors imposed on them against their wills Which kinde of Dioces church being duly ordered wee do not gainsay There are hereof also two kinds The one is “ Act. 15.2.3.6.7 Apostolicall viz. where many ordinarie Congregations consociating togeather in their spirituall governement have a Diocesan or larger Synod or Presbyterie over them for their better direction Such the forraigne reformed Churches at this day do enioy The other kinde is where many ordinary Congregations so consociating togeather have one person a constant President during life over them whom men after the Apostles called a Diocesan Bishop some a Metropolitan and such like other names Albeit of these there were without question divers kindes and sortes some exercising greater power and authoritie some lesse that is the ancienter had lesse the later for the most part alwayes had their power greater and greater Ad â—vagr in Tit. 1. For of these Ierome saith most truly both that their Matoritie over the Presbyters of Congregations was by Humane ordinaÌ„ce and also that it came in grew greater paâ—latim by litle and litle that is by degrees Albeit I say therefore that these Diocesan Bishops were of divers kindes sortes yet the first of them neither were in the Apostles times neither were they immediatly after the Apostles Contrariwise D. Downame affirmeth that Marke the Evangelist ordained in Alexandria a Diocesan church coÌ„sisting of many ordinarie Congregations Which he thinketh to prove by some words of “ Euseb 2.15 Eusebius who saith Marke first †D. Downâ— Def. 2.124 constituted churches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Alexandria it selfe as he falsly translateth it I say this he falsly translateth as “ 3.137 3.25.16 Doct. Dovâ— also did before him wherevpon the whole grouÌ„d of their error doth rest Def pag. 17 â—â— Which their falsificatioÌ„ I shall by Gods helpe shew plainly out of Eusebius him self even in this very place The preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not heere signifie in a place as they vntruly imagine but it signifyeth to a place and so it ought to be translated In Latin we should say ad Alexandriaâ— ipsam or vsque ad that is to Alexandria or vnto Alexandria it selfe This is Eusebius true meaning For he would shew that Marke was the first that constituted Churches in the country of Egypt and withall that hee did so even vnto the chiefe City thereof viz. Alexandria And this is all that hee meaneth heere Twice in this very place besides Eusebius vseth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this same construction and sense Both immediatly before the wordes in question and immediatly after Before thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Egypt or vnto Egypt After thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Rome or vnto Rome not in Rome nor in Egypt Wherefore so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifyeth likewise in this place which we have in hand seing it runneth in one coÌ„text together with the former and is all one manner of phrase Besides Eusebius straight after alleaging Philo concerning this same people whom Marke converted saith that he spake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Churches about in the Countrey and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about Alexandria not in Alexandria Last of all Eusebius vttereth this as he doth the next foregoing clause likewise with this terme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they say or some report By which and the like termes he vseth to relate vncertain and apocryphall things yea sometimes fabulous and vntrue For Eusebius is not precise in setting down all his matters chiefly those which he hath only vpon rumour and report And where hee seemeth to require credit in deed hee is not sparing to name his authors as Egesippus Clemens Dionysius and such other Wherefore divers wayes D. Downames presumptuous assertion and which he doth so boast of that Marke instituted many Churches in AlexaÌ„dria waÌ„teth
many good reasons which heere I passe over But what is this to approve the governement of a proper Diocesan Church or larger of which all our question is where the peoples free consent is wholy and altogeather denyed them such as I know not cleerly either at this day to be or to have ben any where but vnder the Papacie and now in England Certainly against this that is the proper Diocesan Church and governement all our controversie at this day is intended Which also I have noted in my Declaration pag. 21. 22. So that the Diocesan Church which I absolutly speake against in “ In Reas. for reform Exposition of the a Com. The Divine beginning institution of Christes Visible Church c. other places is to bee vnderstood of this proper Dioc. Church so likewise questionles it is meant in the Offer of disputation and in the Petition for toleration also Now no proofe can be made from the law fulnes or toleration of the improper Piocesan Church for the lawfulnes or tolerablenes of the proper Dioces Church Because they differ formally essentially as elswhere “ Declarat pag. 12. 13. 34. 35. I have shewed These can not by any meanes sustifye the one the other In which respect D. Downames foule abusing of Christian people in his Defence by his perpetuall Equivocating and bringing in infinit matters which are nothing to the intent of our questioÌ„ is to be marked and confidered of all men For he taking in hand to proove our Diocesan or rather Provinciall Churches in England and our Bishops who do all things in Ecclesiasticall governement without any free consent of the severall Congregations to be for the substance of their calling and condition Apostolicall hee pleadeth only in generall for Diocesan Churches or larger and for Bishops in generall His proofes such as they be are only for the improper Diocesan Churches and larger and for their Bishops As if simply we did deny them Or as if our Diocesan Churches and Bishops in England were such What intollerable doubling and deceaving of Gods people is this What altering the question What Equivocating as bad as Iesuiticall This is all that he doth in his second booke of the said Defence where the proper place is for this point and where is the very foundation of all his writing beside Yea indeed he doth nothing els throughont his whole Defence Wherefore even this which heere is spoken is enough for a iust confutation of his saide whole Defence The very like dealing Doctor Bilson vseth also in his Perpetuall governement chapt 12.13.14 where he dealeth about Bishops and Dioceses out of the Fathers Chiefly in pag. 260. where he setteth downe 4. Ranks of Bishops which I deny not were in those foure Chiefe Churches there named viz. Ierusalem Antioch Rome Alexandria But the truth is touching his purpose these are so many Catalogues of Equivocations and changings of the question For neither were those Bishops all of one kinde and power neither were any of them of that kinde and power as ours now in England are For whose allowance and approbation they are notwithstanding by him heere produced and mightily vrged But hitherto I have digressed speaking of the divers kindes of Diocesan Churches and Bishops and of their originall likewise of the deceit of the Defenders of our Church state in England by Equivocating so palpably by changing the question The maine point heere in this place is Seeing the Church governement vnder the Gospel ought to be alwaies with the peoples free consent which before wee have sufficiently shewed therefore every true Church vnder the Gospell is only one ordinarie Congregation And consequently no proper Diocesan Church or larger is lawfull A second Consequent also is heere hence to be considered To wit This being admitted that the Church governement ought to be alwayes with the peoples free consent it followeth that such Synods or Presbyteries can not be approoved which rule imperiously over the CoÌ„gregations and impose on them whether they will or no their actes Canons vnder some spirituall penaltie as Excommunication Suspension Deprivation Degradation from the Ministerie c. To which purpose many excellent men also do speake expresly Zuinglius of all other is heerein peremptorie Saith he speaking to such Synodes “ Zuignl Artic 8. Explanat Quod Ecclesia sitis representativa libenter eredimus vera enim non estis c. Wee willingly believe that you are a representative Church for a true Church you are not But I pray you shew vs whence you fetch this name Who hath given this name Who hath given you power to meet and conspire togeather Who hath given you power to make Canons and Decrees differing from Gods word Who hath suffered you to impose these thinges on mens shoulders Who hath perswaded you to grieve mens consciences c. And a little before he saith Deistâ representativâ— Ecclefiâ in Scripturis Sanctis nihil invenis Ex hominum commentis fingere quisquis potest quidlibet Nos Scriptura netimur sacra contraquam nec tis quidquam tentabis si Christianus es Of this represeÌ„tative church I finde nothing in the holy Scriptures Our of mans devises any may faigne what they list Wee rest in the holy Scripture against which thou maist not attempt any thing if thou be a Christian And they that impose their Decrees without the peoples consent saith he tviolento imperio ius Ecclesia invadunt Ad Valent. Comp. They invade vpoÌ„ the Churches right by violent command And such are “ Artic. 64. nomine tenus Episcopi revera tyranni in name Bishops but indeed tyrants As †Pag. 31. before also is observed No lesse sharpe hee is likewise heerein els-where saying “ Epichirisis de Canon Missae Est particularis Ecclisia ea cut praceptum est vt morbidum membrum resecer Math. 18 qualis est ea Corinthi ad qua scribit Paulus aliae quarum se curam geâ—ere predicat in quibus se parâ— modo daceâ—e asseres inquiens Sollicitudo omnium Ecclesiarum Siâ—â—â— in omnibus Eeclesijs doceâ— Superest vs concursantium Eispeopor um ne dicam conspirantium Ecclesia non sit alia quam cut Propheta Malignantium nomen dedit Quod enim vlera verum est a malo est Verax autem est solus Deus omnis homo mendax Quiequitigetur à Deo est equum verum bonum est quiequid al 's homine profectum iniquum mendax malum est Hac horum Ecclesia a Deo non est a malo igitur est Siquis vberiora desideret Conclusionum nostrarum farraginem legat It is a particular Church which is commaunded to cut off the infected member Math. 18. Such as that is of Corinth to which Paul writeth and others of which he saith hes had care and in which he affirmeth that he taught alike saying The care of all Churches is I teach in all Churches It remayneth
Ecclesiae forniam quam Apostols constituerunt in quà tamen vnicum habemus verae Ecclesiae exemplar à quo si quis vel minimùm deflectit abâ—rat I will not presse you so precisely as to call you backe to that forme of the Church which the Apostles set In which forme notwithstanding we have the only patterne of a true Church From which if any decline never so little he erreth He meaneth be would take it well at the Cardinalls handes if he could reduce him to the forme of the Church which “ Instit 4.4 the Fathers vsed suppose about 200. till 300. yeares after Christ after for some while Howbeit he absolutly affirmeth that in the forme which the Apostles set in the Scriptures the only patteâ—ne of a true Church is to be had And that if any decline never so little from it hee erreth Which is all one with that where hee saith Extern◠†Instit 4.1.1 subsidia quoque Deus addidit quò infirmitati nostrae consuleret The Outward helpes and Meanes God hath added also to the end that he might provide for our weaknes If God have added them appointed them for vs what arrogancie shall it be for men to alter them And chieflie the forme of the Visible Church Like to these P. Martyr saith “ P. Mart. in Rom. 3.21 Forma reipublica quandoque variatur quod attinet ad Ecclesiam non mutat formam The Forme of a Civill state sometime is changed but as touching the Church it changeth not her forme All this is very contrary to our forenamed adversaries Nay which is to our great shame the very Papistes in this generall point are nearer to the kingdome of God then such vnworthy Protestantes are For they religiously and most strictly do holde this that †Sander Vifib Monatch â— 6 Christ only is the Teacher and Instituter of the forme of his Visible Church and that no men may ever change it from that same which is set downe in Christes Testament In the particular indeed they erre in setting vp vnder the Gospell a Vniversall church exercising governemeÌ„t which is not Christes spouse but the Queene of pride Nevertheles in the generall they holde cleerely the truth as I have shewed whereby they put many of vs to shame who beare a name of professing the Gospell And so much of the Consequentes which highly touch the Honor and Office of Christ and the Dignitie of his New Testament There are also Consequentes from our adversaries opinion which greatly touch our selves First whosoever of the Protestantes do refuse our foresaid Vniforme OpinioÌ„ of the peoples consent must of necessitie holde two distinct formes of Christes Visible Church Two wayes to heaven and two distinct formes of Church-governement to bee lawfull that is both that where the people are absolutly excluded that where they are admitted The one ordinary and best as they say the other extraordinarie and only in case of necessitie as before hath ben shewed Now to hold two distinct opposit formes of the Visible Church Church-governement is directly all one as to holde two wayes to heaven distinct and opposite in them selves Which is very scandalous in religion and that which can not stande with truth For the Visible Church and Church-governement is plainly the way to heaven and the Outward meanes which must bring vs thither or els ordinarilie we can not come there That is Ordinarily faith repentance sanctification and at last glorification in heaven cometh only by the Ministerie of Gods word and none can lawfully administer but being sent now in these dayes by the Visible Church according to their authoritie in this case given them of Christ Thus the only Outward meanes and way to heaven is Christes Visible Church and the exerciâ—ing of her authoritie in such forme and maner as Christ her Lorde hath appointed her Which is only one way it can not bee two wayes There is only one forme ordained of Christ And so only one is true one lawfull which soever it bee “ As before also I noted pag. 78. Two wayes cannot be D. Dewname answereth that there be other wayes which he alloweth which are †Def. 3.108 4.99 by necessitie and necessitie hath no law Nay him selfe is lawles Gods servants at no time are freed from Gods Law As well in necessitie as in pleÌ„tie in adversitie no lesse then in prosperitie they are so tyed to the rule of his word which is alwayes one that they professe it alwayes vnlawfull for them to take vp any invention of their owne vpon anie pretence Indeed in Humane affaires sometime Necessitie doth excuse vs ftoÌ„ following mans law And so the proverbe is verifyed Necessitie hath no law But in Gods matters and in the affaires of the Church which are causes touching our soules no necessitie nor prosperitie can free vs as I said from Gods law and ordinance appointed for vs. So far at least that we may never take vp any invention of men which in Gods Service is evermore the way of “ See my ExpositioÌ„ of the 2. Commandement error and not of truth As for Do. Dwname I remember the time when hee was stout and resolut for Vnica Methodus in Philosophie But the world is so changed with him since that in Divinitie hee is now a professed Diplodophilus one that thinketh there are two wayes to heaven Dioplodophilus two wayes and formes of administring Christes Visible Church of Calling the Ministerie of exercising holy Censures Which matters as before I shewed are the ordinarie way to heaven for every soule the Outward instrumentall Meanes sanctified of Christ to save his people by Now he professeth two formes of administring them essentially distinct and opposit the one to the other and yet both to be lawfull Which indeed is evidence enough that hee is in error For the way of truth is only one as before hath ben noted but errour is manifold Wherefore among the Protestantes seeing only wee holde a Vniforme constant opinion in this matter of Christes Visible Church which is for the peoples consent in the Ordinarie Governement it is certain that wee only have the truth and our adversaries are in error And heere withall this followeth from our opinion that we only have comfortable assurance to our consciences Comfortable assurance on Christs Ordinances not in Mens which the adversaries can not soundly have We hold only vpon the institution of Christ practise of his Apostles Of which wee have reason to be confident and wherein we may well have assurance For when wee builde the forme and frame whole administration of Christes Visible Church vpon the Rocke mentioned in the Gospell Math. 16.18 that is vpon Christ and his worde alone who can make vs to doubt but that God will crowne his owne worke and blesse his owne Ordinance and sanctify his owne way Certainly we ought with all cheerfulnes to expect and to
strangers voice they will flee from Ioh. 10.27.3 But they can not thus discerne and try vnles they may reiect their Teachers being false and erroneous And if they may reiect they may chose Yet alwayes as I said in the best maner they can Some heere obiect and say The people in deed have power and right but they have not meanes thus to do wheÌ„ they want Ministers I answer if they have power froÌ„ whom have they it It wil be said from God If the people have power from God then they have meanes also Otherwise God giveth power in vaine But that is absurd c false that God giveth any power in vaine or such as can not be acted If God intend an end as he doth in giving all power then sure hee intendeth Meanes also to effect the said end And so a Church wanting Ministers but having power from GOD hath Meanes also to make Ministers and so likewise to do everie other Ecclesiasticall action They are not vtterly altogeather destitute of iust and lawfull meanes to performe any such action for their owne vse in the feare of God That is the best meanes they have is sufficient wheÌ„ they have not such as they would and should have otherwise So then this was the answer which the said Tilenus gave to that FreÌ„ch Lord. But in deed this is not only Tilenus answer in this matter for it hath ben the coÌ„mon defence of all sound Protestantes alwayes when they be opposed touching their Ministerie Which the common consent of all our Attestators before cited See our very Adversaries beeren Above pa. 73. 74. c. and many other maketh manifest If any have given other answeres yet only this hath ben the firme sure anchre to trust to Other answeres are all to weake vncertain this only is cleere and constant Though “ Perpe gov Pag. 335. D. Bilson do vniustly deny it A most certain deduction of this power and right of the people from Christes ordinance in the Gospell I have plainly shewed before in the sixt Chapter Also the benefit and fruit of this defence we see in all Churches abroad namely it is evident in those of France Against which the learnedst of the Papistes have nothing soundly to reply So that the Churches there flourish and increase mightily blessed bee God Who but for this answer would certainly both then when Tilenus so did write before and since have ben much troubled and staggered and no lesse then shamed As many are now with vs in England who do shunne and despise this answer Whereby I see that to lay against the Papistes their other errors before we have cleered the lawfulnes of our Ministerie is in deed vnseasonable and little availeable For if we be shamed in the eyes of vnderstanding people or have not certainly what to hold stand to when we be vrged to make good the Calling and lawfulnes of our Ministerie Papistes will easily with distinctions and subtile answeres make a faire shew in reconciling other matters betweene vs in controversie to Gods worde though I graunt they be grosse When we are shamed in so maine a point as the Calling of our Ministers is in no other matter afterward we shall neither can we have good successe But our adversaries of the Protestantes in Englande what say they to this How defend they the Calling of our Ministers against the Papistes D. Bilson denyeth vehemently that “ Perpet gov pag. 335. 368. the peoples consent is essentiall in the making of any Ministers I desire him then to tell vs what is essentiall in it There is no question but somewhat is The very question is Who have power essentially to make Ministers Then what is it which is essentiall in making a Minister If the peoples consent be not surely I know not what els they will assigne to be And yet as I said somewhat must be Wherefore I conceave the peoples consent may be said to be essentiall by Gods word in the making of a Minister vnder the Gospell because no other thing els can be assigned by Protestants as Essentiall therein The common answer in a maner of all men is that in England our Diocesan and Provincial Bishops do give our Ministers their Calling and Office Heere I demande is this Essentiall in the Calling of our Ministers or is it not I thinke few advisedly will saye it is Essentiall For whatsoever is Essentiall any where the same is essentiall every where as “ Pag. 81. before I have observed And so they must deny the true Essence of Ministerie in the forraigne reformed Churches where they have no such Bishops at all where at first they had no Minister at all Therefore they will not say I thinke I know they can not that the Ordination by Bishops is Essentiall to Christes Ministerie vnder the Gospell Yet againe if they say not so they answer the Papist nothing they satisfie not the question So that what they will resolve on in this point Surely no man can well tell Wherefore heere the craftie Priestes and Iesuites among vs will perswade vehemently their disciples that they have got the victorie Seeing wee can not affirme whence our Ministerie is essentially derived given vs. In the end I doubt not the coÌ„mon defence will be this that our said Bishops by their sole authoritie and power do essentially give the Calling of all our Ministerie And that from Archb. Cranmer Ridley our first Protestant Bishops they have stil so done Let what inconvenience soever follow thereof Be it then so Yet even they likewise must have it given to them They viz. those our first Bishops must have it derived vnto them froÌ„ others From whom had they their authoritie and power Briefly it will bee answered they had it given them from the Bishop and Church of Rome And that in deed is the truth the Pope is he who made Archb. Cranmer and Ridley c. such Bishops They had no other Ordination since And from them all the rest of our Ministers have had their Ordination to this day And so the effect of all is that our whole Ministerie in England successively and derivatively cometh from the Pope See the Supplication for Toleration pa. â— Doct. Downame Doct. Bilson and all that maintaine the Church state in England will thus answer But O miserable defence wofull vnto vs. Which in deed though it be false yet it is such as the Papâ—sâ—es desire and do triumph in It is false two wayes First whatsoever the Church of Rome did give to Archbi Cranmer c. that wholy they tooke away againe namely when he fel from them For then they both deposed him and excommunicated him So that they left him no whit of that power function so much as lay in them which they had given him But questionles if they could give it they could take it away Wherefore so soone as hee was ours being thus
Schismatickes and peace-breakers but look vnto the word of God theÌ„ them selves will be found to bee the makers of the Schisme in departing from the said word of God by their Traditions The true cause of Vnitie We see then by this that the true iust cause of Vnitie in the churches of Christ is to cleave vnseparably to Christes Testament Which meÌ„ not willing to follow alwayes but seeking to walke rather in the wayes and customes and inventions of men thereby they give occasion indeed of much strife The true cause of dissension in Religion discord dissention This is the true cause of our differences in religion It is as fenseleâ— which D. Downame maintaineth that Diocesan and Provinciall Bishops having no Superior Ecclesiasticall can be causes of Vnitie Def. 2.114 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For none of these can do any thing but each in his owne circuit Now what is that to Christian Vnitie when nevertheles there may be for all theÌ„ so many opinions as there be independent Provinciall Bishops Only a Vniversall Church and Bishop if we list to follow Mens policies and not Christes Testament may in deed cause a kinde of Vnitie But againe such Vnitie without Veritie is vnto Christian people plaine tyrannie And we professe that absolute Vnitie vnder a Visible Head is not so good as the TyraÌ„nie of such a one is mischievous Christ rather would his faithfull servantes should be prooved and exercised by Schismatikes then their consciences oppressed by tyrants Some perhaps will say that thus we seeme to desire dissentions seeing we refuse reasonable likelie meanes of Vnitie I answer First The Pope hath better colour so to obiect then Provincialls as before is said Second our meanes of Vnitie which we imbrace are far more likely to effect the same then their way For they have a Provinciall L. Bishop without the word but we have Christs written word his churches helpe also These meanes among vs will settle more vnitie and peace in truth a hundred times especially within the body of our Churches then our adversaries have or can have by their L. Bishops The Magistrats favor a speciall cause of Vnitie If our Magistrates would shew vs their favor and aide which our adversaries enioy this that I say would quickly vniversally be evident But for want of the Magistrates said favor I grant mo differences do appeare amonge vs then would otherwise In which case yet no ChristiaÌ„ ought to be offended but to consider both that vnder the Apostles it hath been so and that Allmightie God she weth heereby that it is “ See D. Downam Def. 3.67.68 better so to bee then vnder Humane tyrannie though pretending Vnitie Doct. Downame setteth vp his rest vpon a †Def. 3.4.6 Vniversall Synod for Vnitie This is his chiefest buck lar But alas how vaine is it For first a Vniversall Synode indeed is impossible to be had especially by vs in these dayes For when and where had any Christians the least benefit by a Vniversall Synod since the Pope hath ben detected What a meanes then of Vnitie is that which our Adversaries pretend Namely which is not possible to be had or howsoever most rare difficult Secondly such a Synod at the D. stands for viz. Setting downe Decreta tanquam Dictatoria 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ecclesijs Decrees as it were vncontroulable and not vnder the examination of the Churches is by the learned “ Pag. 101. c. 105. 106 c. before plainly condemned to whom I will adde M. Chemnicius †Exam. Concil Trid. part 1. pag. 3. condemning the Council of Trent for this very cause in these very wordes denying also that any of the Primitive Councills were such And yet a Vniversall Councill if it may bee had and other Councills so far as they may be had we allow and imbrace and do acknowledge great benefit by them namely so that their Decrees may bee examined and tryed by Gods worde of them to whom Gods word appertaineth This vse I say of a Generall Synod wee allow as well as he which in deed is the only true vse of Synods Certainly Provinciall and Diocesan Synods wee allow more then he doth For hee so admitteth these Synods that yet the Head Bishop in any of theÌ„ is to “ Def. 4.82.83 2.114 over rule all And what vse of them is there then The L. Bishop may have as good Counsel and advise with lesse trouble and charge But these are not that Meanes of Vnitie which hee pretendeth It is as I said the Synod Vniversall and that of supreme and absolute power spirituall over all Christians and that from Christes expresse ordinance Which verily also taketh away Soveraigne power froÌ„ all within England Note this ill Consequent to reforme our selves in religion what need so ever there be Which I leave to the wise to consider of Yea this his opinion doth in the end necessarily induce a Pope as I have said Hitherto of perverting the true intensive Nature of Christes Visible Church viz. where the people of the ordinary Congregations are barred their free consent in the Church governemeÌ„t Where we have seene what great and lamentable evills follow therevpon even to the making of a plaine path way for the Popes reentrance among vs. What extent or limit is there of a Church in the New Testam Now wee shall see that the same mischiefe cometh likewise by extending the Churches outward Body larger and further then it ought to bee The iust extent of the outward Body or the true boundes and limites of Christes Visib Church alwayes vnder the Gospell is one ordinarie Congregation only See also before pag. 10. 157. The reason is because so we finde it to bee in the whole New Testament of Christ All the which I have proved and declared plainly els where viz. before pag. 87. and Declarat pag. 10. 19. 20. c. It is to prophane and vnchristian advisedly to affirme that in the New Testament Christ or his Apostles have limited and defined no Church Oâ— that men may change those boundeâ— which Christ or his Apostles have seâ— The Papistes them selves are not 〈◊〉 grosse as †Pag. 150. before I have noted they would desire no greater hand vpon vs then that we should so answer them Some certain limites therefore and bounds of a Church questionles Chrisâ— hath set But our adversaries and namely “ Def. â— c. D. Downame refuseth the ordinary Congregation They avouch and maintayne a diocesan and Provinciall Church to be of Divine institution in the New Testament What maintaine they A Diocesan Church Nay in deed Christes Visible Church â—hen must be not only Diocesan A Diocesan Church requireth a Vniversall Church nor only Provincial no nor only Patriarâ—hall but eveÌ„ Vniversall I say where Christes Visible Church is not beleeved to bee by Christ limited only to one ordinary
the Apostles Which he doth very poorely 1. He sheweth that the Church of Ierusalem †Pag 84. exceeded the proportion of one particular assembly ordinarily meeting in one place I grant it and have granted it “ Reas. for ret pag. 19. 65. 66. heeretofore But he can not shew that this Church nowe had in it mo ordinary set and constant assemblyes then one Which is the point Hee addeth †Def. 2. p. 87 It was never intended to be one Parish among many but to be a Mother Church when by Gods blessing it should beget others to be severed from it in particular assemblies yet to remaine subordinate and subiect to it as children to the Mother The very same was affirmed by “ Pag 7. him before of all the Primitive Churches But all this is fall â—t was intended by the Apostles that Ierusalems Church should bee one Parish among many others and indeed to be as a Mother Church in reverence and reputation yet as a common Sister with the rest in power iurisdiction They also intended both in Ierusalem and in every other City that the Bishop and his presbyterie should bee set over no more but one particular Congregation and that as more Congregations should be constituted Every Congâ—â—gation 〈◊〉 to be an intâ—â— Church every Church buâ— a Congregation every one should have a Bishop also a Presbyterie if it might be All this I say the Apostles intended both in Ierusalem and every where els in the world And first this my reasons “ Pag. 208. Decâ—â—â— pa. 12 13. 14 15 c. before rehearsed do soundly proove Also Ignat. epistles do plainly shew that the practise was so then every where yea in the Country as wel as in the Cities wheresoever there were any Churches then Ignatius words are these †Ignat. Ad Trall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Without these there is no Church no meeting togeather of the Saints no holy assembly This is Vniversally spoken So againe “ Ad Phila. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To every Church for so it may well be translated there is one Bishop with a coÌ„pany of Persbyters Deacons Where Ignat. meaning is that every wher it ought at least so to be In which Calvin likewise consenteth Saying * Calv. Instit 4.1.9 Vnaquaeque nomen authoritatem Ecclesiae iure obtinet Every one of the Congregations which were dispersed “ And 8.15 Oppidatim Vicatim in the Country townes and Villages obtaineth by right the name and authoritie of a Church Again “ Instit 4.3.6 Quod orbi Vniver so prestiterunt Apostoli id gregi suo debet Pastor vnusquisque That which the Apostles were to the whole world the same ought every Pastor be to his owne Flocke Zuinglius also before hin is heerein of all other the most cleere and resolute I touched many of his places †Pag. 102. 103. 104. before But heere I think it fit to lay forth his words more fully First to shew that every Church ought to be but one ordinary Congregation and that in the N. Testament it was so hee saith “ Zuingl ad Valentin Compar Vox Ecclesiae proprie exposita non aliud quà m cetum vel populi CoÌ„gregationem totum plebis collegium significat Vndè singulas paraecias Ecclesiae vocabulo not are licet cum per hoc cetus coÌ„gregati in vnuÌ„ populi multitudo intelligatur The word Church what it is The word Church properly expounded signifyeth no other thing then an assembly or meeting togeather of the people and the whole gathering togeather of the people Whence by the word Church wee may note and signifie every particular Parish Seeing by this word is vnderstood the multitude of an assembly of the people meeting togeather in one place Of the Church of Corinth vnder the Apostles he saith †Ad Valent Compar Non equidem negare poteris Paulum hoc loco communem totius populi fidelis Ecclesiam intelligere qui in vnum collectus Scripturae sensus ab alijs expositos attentus percipit Populus ergo fidelis Christianorum oninium Ecclesia Doctores suos dijudicat de illoruÌ„ doctrina sana ne sit vel impia pronuÌ„ciare solet Truly thou canst not deny that Paul vnderstandeth in this place the common assemby of the whole faitful people which being gathered together in one place attentively heareth the senses of the Scripture expounded by others wherefore the people and faithfull assembly of all the Christians iudgeth of their Teachers is wont to pronounce of their Doctrine whether it be found or wicked Likewise elswhere hee saith that the Corinthian Church †In Pastoâ— erat Paraecia was a Parish And again likewise The Ephesin Church theÌ„ was “ Above pag. 103. Concio a particular assembly And questioÌ„les as he thought of these so likewise he thought of IerusaleÌ„s Church yea of every true visible Church indefinitly Of which he saith “ Artic. 8 Explanat Capitur Ecclesia pro peculiaribus Congregationibus qui ad auditionem verbi ad Communionem Sacramentorum commodè in aliquem vnum locum conveniunt Graeci parikiaâ— voc 〈◊〉 De huiusmodi Ecclesiâ Christus loquitur Math. 18 Sic Paulus 1. Cor. 1. 14. The Church is taken for the particular Congregations which to the hearing of the word and reâ—eaving the Sacraments do come togeather commodiously into one place The Grecians call them Parishes Of such Christ speaketh Math. 18 17. Paul 1. Cor. 1. 14. And that every of these Churches and Parishes should have the “ See before pag. 30. 31. power of governement iudging of causes among themselves that wee must follow herein only the Scriptur he sheweth a little before that it is his meaning Where expressing what Church he speaketh of and also the very cause why there is such strife among men about the Church he saith A multis iam seculis ad nostra vsque tempora quae sit Ecclesia certamen fuit ortum nimirum ex regnanai cupiditate Nam hoc sibi quidam arrogarunt vt se dicerent esse Ecclesiam vt omnia corum manu administrarentur Omissis autem hominum commentis quibus quidam hâc in re nituntur ex Scripturis sacris mente spiritus de Ecclesiâ scribemus Quod Graeci Ecclesiam Hebraei Kahal vocant Latini Concionem There hath ben controversie of old even to our times what the Church is which riseth indeed from a greedines to rule For this some men doe arrogat to theÌ„selves that they say theÌ„selves are the Church to the end that all things may bee done by their hand But we letting go mens devises whereon in this cause some doe rest we will write of the Church out of the holy Scripturs and minde of the spirit That which the Greeks cal a Church the Hebrues call a Congregation the Latineâ— an
their trust in the living God “ Chap. 2.13 They digge to themselves pits that can hold no water It is true the Vniversall and perpetuall practise of Christs Church is to bee held alwayes good and holy This I grant but it is because such practise evermore hath the Apostles plaine writing for it and with it Which the Churches said practise can not bee destitute of But yet suppose our adversaries had som kind of general consent of men for theÌ„ as they pretend seeing they can not indeed produce the Scripture more then the Papists do who also preteÌ„d the like Vniversal consent for their turne or suppose that they do but pretend all this Vniversalitie perpetuitie beeing far from it indeed then why I praâ— should not we answer them as D. Bilson somtime answered the said Papists Saying “ Answ to the Seminar part 4. pa. 360 If you want the foundation of faith and religion he meaneth the Scripture in vaine you do seeke to make a shew of Catholicisme with such patches and pamplets c. When you muster the Fathers to disprove the Scriptures and to establish an vnwritten faith vnder the credit of traditions you corrupt the Writers and abuse the Readers †Pag. 362. Nowe cite not only 9. but 9. skore Fathers if you will for Traditions the more you stir the worse you spcede “ Pag. 300. Truth hee meaneth the Scripture is authoritie sufficient against all the world * Pag. 301. One man with truth is warrant against all the world yea every private man for his owne person may embrace Gods Lawes whosoever say nay And as Tertullian hath against this no man may prescribe nor space of time nor patronage of persons nor privilege of places “ Pag. 299. Though the whole world pronounce againe the word yet God will bee true and all men lyars †Pag. 384. God speaketh not now but in the Scriptures How excellently are these things written if he himselfe and his associats would followe the same or would suffer vs to follow it The effect wherof is that not only wee are bound evermore to holde fast Gods word and never to admit the carnal reasoÌ„ of Humane consent in Divine matters such as our questioÌ„ of the forme of Christs Church is but also it notifyeth D. Bilsons open coÌ„tradictioÌ„ to himselfe who presseth hardly against vs that which hee denyeth to the Papists Is God an accepter of persons Is it ill for Papists to plead Vniversall consent and yet must we content our selves with it rest thereon Shall he say to vs “ Perp. gov pag. 223.235 Is not the whole Church a lawfull and sufficient witnes in that case And that it is enough †Pag. 228. if any christian persons deserve to be credited And yet shall he say to Papists “ Lib. 4 38â— It is alike Haereticall to believe without Scripture aâ— to believe against Scripture Yea even to ourselves when hee list hee can say †Perp. gov pag. 286. Make vs good proofes out of Scripturs or leave tying Gods ordinances to your appetites Wherfore we must crave leave in our cause also to answer him and all of his minde with his owne words afore rehearsed And likewise with D. Rainold that “ Cons 257. No Humane proofe is sure in Divinitie †Pag. 19â— Truth is not to be tryed by consent of Fathers “ Pag. 45â— For my selfe I assure you that neither dead nor quicke Fathers nor children shall perswade me any thing in matter of religion which they cannot prove by Moses the Prophetes or which hee meaneth by the Apostles writings Now thus the Churches Vniversall perpetuall consent beeing no good proofe in Divinitie the whole Churches consent at some time only is a proofe much worse and by no meanes to be admitted Though Augustin in a certain place it seemeth held it good yet it is his error as where hee saith “ August epist 118. Si quid tota hodiè per orbem frequentat Ecclesia hoc quin ita faciendum sit disputare insolentissimae insaniae est If the whole Church through out the world at this day observe any thing it is insolent madnes to reason against it Certainly there have ben and may be †As sometime Polygamie was Catholike errors which yet questionles may be yea ought to bee reproved by all them that vnderstaÌ„d them Well but have our adversaries a Vniversall coÌ„sent of the whole Church at any time Alas they are far from it Neither D. Bilson nor D. Downame nor they al have alleaged neither can they alleage halfe a quarter of the whole Church at any time What then Then they are to lavish of their wordes in saving they have the Vniversall consent of the whole Church They indeed come short of it by many hundred thousandes A poore fewe God knowes they cite in comparison of all It may be they name some of the chiefe most famous in their dayes Yet it followeth not that all who lived then were of their minde D. Bilson against the Seminar lib. 1. part 2. pag. 402. Neither is it necessary that all differences should bee recorded in writing nor that all Records should be preserved come to our handes So that they are far from proving a Vniversall consent at any time much lesse at all times of the Church But what speake I of Vniversalitie and perpetuitie Let our adversaries not equivocat Let them deale plainly Let them vse no deceit in wordes nor force to mens consciences And then I assure thee good reader nothing but noveltie and iniquitie is in their Defence and assertion against vs. I have shewed before that in our controversie which wee have at this day “ Above pa. 98.97 â—â— we speak against only a proper Diocesan Church and the Bishop thereof where the peoples free coÌ„sent is wholy denyed them as it is in England and our adversaries defende namely this Diocesan Church and Bishop Of this particularly and precisely is all their †Def. 2.114 Epist to the King pag. 1 great and glorious commendation and praise which they publish Nowe to the point Is this kind of Diocesan Church and this kind of Bishop Apostolicall Have they Vniversall perpetuall approbation for this Nothing lesse I appeale heerin to our right worthy Attestators before alleaged yea to all indifferent and vnpartiall witnesses yea to the partial also in times of “ Pag. 64. 65. 66. antiquitie who do stand with vs. By all true evidence it wil be as cleare as the light at noone day that this foresaid proper Diocesan Church and Bishop were not in the world till after 200. yeares of Christ which is the time limited by vs Indeed not till after 300. Nay it was after 400 and longer also As I have shewed “ Pag. 66. 67. 88. before So that both D. Bilsons and D. Downames Defences which they have made for
first settled in the Apostles and that this cannot be doubted It is not so I doe both doubt it and am sure of the contrary Christ setled the moderation of the Keyes first in †Mat. 18.17 the Church His commission to his Apostles was given “ Mat. 28.19 Ioh. 20.23 after Not depriving the Church of her former power but ioyning the Apostles their successors to her as her Guides Withall two thinges further are to bee noted 1. Doct. Bilson heere maketh all Pastors indifferently to have power to Minister and deny Sacraments Censures Whereby it followeth that the Diocesan Bishops only have not this power For saith he they the ordinary Ministers must be trusted with both or with neither †Pag. 110. 133. 162. 199. 162. You must free them from both or leave both vnto them Wherein also none may compell them or force them Sure this quite overthroweth his owne practise and state and the whole order in England 2. We may observe a Syllogisme in his owne wordes heere elswhere Speaking indefinitly of those which have authoritie in the Church he saith “ pag. 111. They must looke not only what they chalenge but also from whom they derive it If from the Apostles then are they their Successors if from Christ as Collegues ioyned with the Apostles wee must finde that consociation in the Gospell before wee cleare them from intrusion No man should take this honor vnto him selfe but hee that is called of God as the Apostles were If they be called by Christ Heb. 5. read their assignation from Christ if they be not surcease that presumption And to do otherwise is to “ Pag. 19 Mat. 15 transgresse the commandement of God for the traditions of Men. †Against the Seminar part 2. pag. 318. The authoritie of Patriarkes Archbishops meaner Bishops over other Ministers was not by the institution of Christ or his Apostles but long after by the consent of the Churches the custome of the times and the will of Princes Therefore the Conclusion followeth of it selfe the authoritie of Patriarkes Archbishops meaner Bishops over Ministers is intrusion and presumption and transgressioÌ„ of Gods commandement At vs Doctor Downame would rage if we should conclude so but I hope he will take it better in Do. Bilsons wordes His “ Pag. 114. 115. Fathers and Councills if they absolutly exclude the peoples consent I leave vnder his owne censure †Heere and also pa. 22â— before observed But I take them to meane otherwise though indeed a very great power and almost absolute was nowe exercised by many Diocesan Bb. in ExcoÌ„municatioÌ„ Absolution Hee saith Cyprians Augustines yeelding the people a consent was “ Pag. 119. not for any right they had but to prevent scandalls But their right both by precept and practise of the Apostles is sufficiently shewed before Yet indeed it was to prevent scandalls among the people also Which very point is a firme reason likewise that this spirituall libertie of the people then was their right For first they could not bee scandalized so oft fearing to loose their consent in such affaires so many ages togeather and in so farre distant countreis but that they were then taught and they learned froÌ„ time to time that this was their right If the coÌ„trary then had ben taught then they could not have ben scandalized nor made jealous least they might be wronged in this behalfe as they were That they were is manifest by all monumentes of those times and by our adversaries confession Therefore the peoples free consent in their spirituall governement was then taught and it was their right in the ages after the Apostles And truly this ever hath ben is and wil be scandalous and offensive iustly to a Christian vnderstanding Congregation viz. to have any thing Spiritually and Ecclesiastically forced on them The case is perpetuall But †Mat. 18.7 wo to them by whom offences come specially to such Therefore wo to them who yeelde not this libertie to such people perpetually Yet he saith “ Pag. 112. In Scripture hee findeth neither Example of it nor reason for it Who can let words If men list to speake who can stay them Some will shut their eyes and say they see not light at noone Against Election with the peoples consent he said before †Pag. 69. Examples are no precepts As it were acknowledging Examples How beit besides that this is the “ Bellarm. de Cleric 1.7 verie Iesuits shift he him selfe coÌ„futeth al these evasioÌ„s though they be his owne First yeelding that †Perp. gov pag. 373. the Apostles taught the Church by their example Then testifying thus “ Pag 49. This Prerogative to be best acquainted with the will meaning of our Savior and to have their mouthes and pennes directed and guided by the holy Ghost into all truth aswell of doctrine as of Discipline was proper to the Apostles Againe †Pag. 43. They set an order amongst Christians in all things needfull for the governement continuance peace and vnitie of the Church And “ Pag. 106. The Scriptures once written suffice all ages for instruction And heere I beseech the Christian Readers of all degrees that they take me not amisse to which some mens humors are to prone viz. where in an other place I have said The particular Congregations of England are true Churches “ Declarâ—â— pag. 6. accidentally My meaning is that as those particular Congregations have in them godly and holy Christians consociated togeather to serve God so far as they see agreeablie to his word so they are in right from Christ essentially true Churches of God and are so to be acknowledged by vs and in publike not to be absolutly separated from But in respect as these Congregations are parts of proper Diocesan and Provinciall Churches so they are true Churches of Christ accidentally In respect of them it is an accideÌ„t For proper Diocesan and Provinciall Churches being not in the N. Testam have in them by accident the true essentiall forme of Christs Visible Churches Seeing also this forme is repugnant to the constitutioÌ„ forme of the other as †hertofore I noted †Reas. for ref pag. 23. by comparing their divers Definitions in “ Pag 200. 318. this Treatise it will most plainly appeare And so these two divers respectes acknowledgementes as I conceave may well bs yeelded to the particular Congregations now in England neither do I see any iust exception against it In vaine also doth Doct. Downe vpbraid vs that †Def. 4.81 we seeke to overturne aswell those Churches where the Geneva discipline is established as ours That “ Def. 1.10 we agree with no reformed Church in the worlde That †Pag. 38. 47. nonâ— are of our minde but Brownists and such like Hee maketh the Brownistes happy men Can hee reproove them if they follow Zuinglius