their doctrine But what is their prastise in the regiment of their Churche cleane contrarie For in the order of the communion booke where it is appointed what the Minister shall do it is indifferently said Then shall the Prieste do or say this and that and Then shal the Minister c. Whereby it is euident that they make Priest a proper and peculiar calling applied to their Ministers and so their practise is contrarie to their teaching and doctrine FVLK 7. I haue satisfied your desire before if you list to knowe our translation must be as neere as it can to expresse the true signification of the originall words so it is in that place of the Acts. 14. v. 23. which being graunted by them that denie the necessitie of â—at forme of election to continue alwaies giueth no more aduauntage to the aduersaries than they woulde take out of the signification of the Greeke word how soeuer it were translated Your example of Maister Whitakers denying the name of Prieste to be applied to the ministers of the Gospel to proue that wee must mainteine our Ecclesiasticall state how soeuer we translate is very fonde and ridiculous as also the contradiction that you would make betweene him and the seruice booke touching the name of Prieste there vsed and allowed Maister Whitakers writing in Latine speaketh of the Latine terme Sacerdos the Communion booke of the English worde Priest is not this a goodly net for a foole to daunce naked in and thinke that no body can see him MART. 8. Nowe concerning imposition or laying on of handes in making their Ministers which the Puritans also are forced to allow by other wordes of Scripture howsoeuer they dispute and iangle againste 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 none of them all make more of it than of the like Iudaicall ceremonie in the olde Law not acknowledging that there is any grace giuen withall though the Apostle say there is in expresse termes but they will aunswer this text as they are wont with a fauourable translation turning grace into gift As when the Apostle saith thus Neglect not THE GRACE that is in thee which is giuen thee by prophecie with impositioÌ„ of the hands of Priesthood they translate Neglect not the GIFT and Beza most impudently for by prophecie translateth to prophecie making that onely to be this gift and withall adding this goodly exposition that he had the gift of prophecie or preaching before and now by imposition of hands was chosen onely to execute that function But because it might be obiected that the Apostle sayth Which was giuen thee with the imposition of handes or as he speaketh in an other place by imposition of handes making this imposition of handes an instrumentall cause of giuing this grace he sayth that it did onely confirme the grace or gift before giuen FVLK 8. Though we finde that by or with imposition of handes many rare and extraordinary giftes of prophecie of tongues and such like were giuen in the Apostles time yet we finde no where that grace is ordinarily giuen by that ceremonie vsed alwayes in the Church for ordination of the ministers therof But whether there be or not our translation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into gift is true and proper to the worde For albeit the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken not onely for the fauour of God but also for his gracious giftes yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is neuer taken in the Scripture but for a free gift or a gift of his grace That Beza referreth the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the ende of the gifte he hath the nature of the worde to beare him out which may well abide that sense and yet he doth not reiect the other common interpretation by prophecie that by appoyntment of the holye Ghost vttered by some of the Prophets But where you wrangle about the gift of prophecie as though he were vtterly voyde thereof before he receyued imposition of handes I knowe not what you meane Woulde you haue vs thinke that he was ordayned Prieste or Elder or to anye office of the Church without competent giftes meete to discharge his office That the gifte of prophecie as well as of speakinge with tongues might be giuen by and with imposition of hands Beza doubteth not But it is out of doubte that to an office none was chosen or admitted by the Apostle and the reste of the Presbyterie of Ephesus but such as had sufficient giftes to answere that office MART. 9. Thus it is euident that though the Apostle speake neuer so plaine for the dignitie of holy Orders that it giueth grace and consequently is a Sacrament they peruert all to the contrarie making it a bare ceremonie suppressing the worde grace which is much more significant to expresse the Greeke worde than gifte is because it is not euery gifte but a gratious gifte or a gifte proceeding of maruelous and mere grace At when it is saide To you it is giuen not onely to beleeue but also to suffer for him The Greeke worde signifieth this much To you this grace is giuen c. So when God gaue vnto S. Paule all that sayled with him this Greeke worde is vsed because it was a great grace or gratious gifte giuen vnto him When S. Paule pardoned the incestuous person before due time it is expressed by this worde because it was a grace as Theodorete calleth it giuen vnto him And therefore also the almes of the Corinthians 1. Cor. 16. v. 3. are called their grace which the Protestants translate liberalitie neglecting altogither the true force and signification of the Greeke wordes FVLK 9. Here is no euidence at al that the order of Priesthoode is a Sacrament or gyueth grace but that God by the ceremonie of laying on of handes did giue wonderfull and extraordinarie giftes of tongues and prophecying in the beginning and firste planting of the Churche But that grace should alwayes follow that ceremonie there is no proofe to bee made out of the holie Scriptures And experience sheweth that hee which was voide of giftes beefore hee was ordered Priest is as verye an asse and Dogbolte as hee was beefore for anye encrease of grace or gratious giftes althoughe hee haue authoritie committed vnto hym if hee bee ordained in the Church though vnworthily with great sinne both of him that ordaineth and of him that is ordained But wee suppresse the worde grace you say bicause charisma signifieth at least a gratious gift See how the bare sounde of tearmes delighteth you that you mighte therein seeke a shadowe for your singlesolde sacrament of popishe orders The worde signifieth a free or gratious gifte and so will euerie man vnderstande it whiche knoweth that it is giuen by God As also in all places where mention is made of Gods giftes wee must vnderstande that it proceedeth freely from him as a token of his fauoure and grace But that the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
called And for your Ouerseers he sayth Episcopos and not Superintendentes Which he might as well haue sayde as you Ouerseers But to saye the truth though he be too too profane yet he doth much more keepe and vse the Ecclesiasticall receiued termes than you doe often protesting it and as it were glorying therein against Castaleon especially As when he sayth Presbyterum where you saye Elder Diaconum where you saye Minister and so forth Where if you tell me that howsoeuer he translate he meaneth as profanely as you I beleeue you and therefore you shall goe togither like Maister like Schollers all false and profane translators for this Beza who sometime so gladly keepeth the name of Apostle yet calleth Epaphroditus legatum Philippensium Philip. 2. verse 15. Whereupon the Englishe Bezites translate your Messenger for your Apostle As if S. Augustine who was our Apostle should be called our Messenger FVLK 4. You can not leaue your olde byas in wresting mens sayings farre beyond their meaning Therefore you alledge against vs the saying of Beza for the terme of Apostles to be retained where meÌ„tion is made of the Apostles of Christ not onely those that are specially so called but also all the ministers of the worde But what is this to terme them by the honourable name of Apostles which are not sent by God but by men about some ciuil or Ecclesiastical busines For both he we cal Epaphroditus the Messenger and not the Apostle of the Philippians because he was sent by the Philippians vnto Paule and not by Christ vnto them As for that Augustine which was sent by Gregorie might better be called Gregories Apostle than our Apostle for he was not sent by vs but to vs not immediatly from God as an Apostle should but from Gregorie and by Gregorie Touching the termes of Bishops Elders Ministers Priestes c. enough hath bene sayd already Our translators haue done that which they thought best to be done in our language as Beza did in the Latine tongue MART. 5. As also when you translate of S. Matthias the Apostle that he was by a common consent counted with the eleuen Apostles Act. 1. v. 26. what is it else but to make onely a popular election of Ecclesiasticall degrees as Beza in his annotations would haue vs to vnderstande saying that nothing was done here peculiarly by Peter as one of more excellent dignitie than the rest but in common by the voyces of the whole Church though in an other place vpon this election he noteth Peter to be the chiefe or Corypheus And as for the Greeke worde in this place if partialitie of the cause would suffer him to consider of it he shoulde finde that the proper signification thereof in this phrase of speache is as the vulgar Latine Interpreter Erasmus and Valla all which he reiecteth translate it to wit He was numbred or counted with the eleuen Apostles without all respect of common consent or not consent as you also in your other Bibles doe translate FVLK 5. The election of Matthias to be an Apostle was extraordinarily and therefore permitted to the lot the maner whereof as it is not to be drawen into example so the proper election can not be proued thereby yet hath both Beza and the English translator faithfully expressed the Greeke worde which S. Luke there vseth although neyther Erasmus nor Valla beside your vulgar Interpretor did consider it Neither doth that common consent in accepting Mathias for an Apostle whome the lotte had designed more proue a popular election or derogate from the singularitie of Peter than that by common consent of the whole brotherhood two were chosen and set vp that the Apostleshippe should be layd vpon one of them MART. 6. Which diuersitie may proceede of the diuersitie of opinions among you For we vnderstand by Maister Whitegifts bookes against the Puritanes that he and his fellowes deny this popular election and giue preeminence superioritie and difference in this case to Peter and to Ecclesiasticall Prelates and therefore he proueth at large the vse and Ecclesiasticall signification of the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to be the giuing of voices in popular elections but to be the Ecclesiasticall imposing of handes vpon persons taken to the Churches ministerie Which he sayth very truely and needeth the lesse here to be spoken of specially beeing touched elsewhere in this booke FVLK 6. The diuersitie of the translation proceedeth of this that the former translators did not obserue the nature of the Greeke worde which Beza hath considered more absolutely than any interpretors before him Although it is not vnlike that Chrysostome did well acknowledge it when speaking of this election he vseth these words I am illud considera quam Petrus agit omnia ex communi discipuâ—orum sententia nihil authoritate sua nihil cum imperio Now also consider this thing how Peter doth all things by common consent of the Disciples nothing of his owne authoritie nothing with rule or commaundement And as for the popular election if you had redde those bookes you make mention of you might perceiue that neither of both parts allowe a meere popular election And that Maister Whitgift doth not so much contend what forme of election was vsed in the time of the Apostles and of the Primitiue Church as whether it be necessary that such forme of election as then was practised shoulde in all ages of the Church and in all places be of necessitie continued and obserued MART. 7. One thing onely we woulde knowe why they that pleade so earnestly against their brethren the Puritanes about the signification of this worde pretending herein onely the primitiue custome of imposition of handes in making their Ministers why I saye them selues translate not this worde accordingly but altogither as the Puritanes thus When they had ordayned them Elders by election in euerye Church Act. 14. verse 23. For if the Greeke worde signifie here the peoples giuing of voyces as Beza forceth it onely that way out of Tullie and the popular custome of olde Athens then the other signification of imposing handes is gone which Mayster Whitgift defendeth and the popular election is brought in which he refelleth and so by their translation they haue in my opinion ouershotte themselues and giuen aduantage to their brotherly Aduersaries Vnlesse in deede they translate as they thinke because in deede they thinke as heretically as the other but yet because their state of Ecclesâ—asticall regiment is otherwise they must maintaine that also in their writings howsoeuer they translate For an example They all agree to translate Elder for Priest and Maister Whitakers telleth vs a freshe in the name of them all that there are no Priestes nowe in the Church of Christ that is as he interpreteth himselfe This name Prieste is neuer in the New Testament peculiarly applied to the Ministers of the Gospell this is
your authenticall vulgar Latine translation howe manye faultes bee in that which your Tridentine Councell hath authorised And here I will not charge it with the aduersaries thereof as you doe ours but with great friendes of it and your doctrine Lindanus Bishoppe of Ruremonde and Isidorus Clarius Monke of Casine and Bishoppe Fulginatensis of whiche the former writeth a whole booke discussing howe he woulde haue the errours vices corruptions additions detractions mutations vncertaynties obscurities pollutions barbarismes and soelecismes of the vulgar Latine translation corrected and reformed bringing manye examples of euerie kinde in seuerall chapters and sections The other Isidorus Clarius giuing a reason of his purpose in castigation of the sayed vulgar Latine translation confesseth that it was full of errours almost innumerable which if he shoulde haue reformed all according to the Hebrue veritie he could not haue set forth the vulgar edition as his purpose was Therefore in many places he retayneth the accustomed tanslation but in his annotations admonisheth the reader howe it is in the Hebrue And notwithstanding this moderation he acknowledgeth that about 8000. places are by him so noted corrected This Epistle the Deputies of the Councell of Trent could not abide and therefore in the later edition of this Bible set forth with obseruation of their censure 1569. it is cleane left out as also a godly collection of the same Isidorus of places of Scripture exhorting to the studie of holy Scripture and a like sound confession of those thinges which the Scriptures teach c. MART. 26. But I omit these as vnknowen to our countrie or to this age and will deale principally with the English translations of our time which are in euery mans handes within our country the corruptions whereof as they are partly touched here and there in the annotations vpon the late newe English Testament Catholikely translated and printed at Rhemes so by occasion thereof I will by Gods helpe to the better commoditie of the Reader and euidence of the thing lay them closer togither and more largely display them not counting the number because it were hard but esteeming the weight and importance of so many as I thought good to note specially in the new Testament Where I haue to aduertise the Reader of certaine speciall things which he must obserue FVLK 26. You should rather omit them as vntrue for albeit it can not be denied but some faults may escape the most faithfull and diligent translator yet so many heretical corruptions either in the Dutch or English are incredible and turne rather to the discredit of the accuser in all wise mens iudgement than to the parties so charged In like maner as Surius noteth no lesse than 11000. lyes in Sleidan more to his owne reproche than to the defacing of Sleidans credit You professe wisely therefore not to count the number but to esteeme the weight and importaunce of suche faultes as you thought good to note if there were as great faithfulnesse in your performance as there is wisedom in your profession But now to your nine aduertisements to the Reader MART. 27. First that in this booke he may not looke for the proofe or explication and deciding of controuersies Which is done in the Annotations vpon the new Testament but onely therefuting or controlling of their false translations concerning the said controuersies which is the peculiar argument of this â—reatise FVLK 27. I thinke their is no wise reader woulde loke for the deciding of so many coÌ„trouersies in so smal a booke he that shal seeke them in your Annotations shall find euen as litle to the purpose except he will take your determinatioÌ„ without proofe for a sufficieÌ„t decisioÌ„ As for the doctors you quote without iudgment fraudulently falsly truncately and otherwise abusiuely haue all or the most bene answered long agoe And if neede shal be with litle labour may be answered againe MART. 28. Secondly that we refuâ—e sometime one of their translations sometime an other and euery one as their falshood giueth occasio Neither is it a good defense for the falshood of one that it is truely translated in an other the reader being deceyued by any one because commonly he readeth but one Yea one of them is a condemnation of the other FVLK 28. That sheweth your malice rather than either wisedome or honestie For if we our selues in our later translations haue corrected some small and few errours that haue ouerslipped vs in our former traÌ„slatioÌ„s we haue shewed our sinceritie and care of setting out the truth by al meanes And where you say it is no good defence the reader being deceiued by any one because coÌ„moÌ„ly he readeth but one I answere you first there is not in the worst translation any fault escaped that may of it selfe lead him into a damnable errour Secondly he hath the word of God expounded by catechizing sermons lectures in which he may learne the substance of Christian religion Thirdly he hath at hand euery where learned Diuines vnto whose counsell he may resort if he be offended with any thing that he readeth in his Bible souÌ„ding contrarie to the publikely receiued doctrine of the Church In that you say the one of our translations condemneth the other it had bene sufficient to haue said reproueth which is only where there is a manifest error in the one for otherwise the diuersities of traÌ„slations as S. Augustin teacheth you may much profit the simple readers they that be diligent studeÌ„ts of the Scriptures in the English tongue will not satisfie them selues with euery translation but wil seeke for the best approued MART. 29. Thirdly that we speake indifferently against Protestants Caluinists Bezites and Puritans without any curious distinction of them being all among themselues brethren and pewfellowes sometime the one sort of them sometime the other more or lesse corrupting the holy Scriptures FVLK 29. A wise aduertisement But this is to be noted that now you acknowledge them to be all brethren among them selues and pewfellowes But when you list they shall be at deadly feude one against an other and no communitie or fellowship betwene them MART. 30. Fourthly that we giue but a taste of their corruptions not seeing so farre nor marking all so narrowly and skilfully as them selues know their owne subtilties meanings who will smile at the places which we haue not espied FVLK 30. He that considereth your quarrels pickt to words of one signification as Church Congregation iustice and righteousnes Elder and Priest Image and Idol workes and deedes and such like will not thinke that you haue past ouer any great matters worth the writing of but that you would set a vaine bragge of the case as though there were much worse matter than you haue witte to conceiue Yet you say confidently that we as guiltie of our owne subtilties and meanings will smile at the places which you haue not espied You are like to those southsayers mentioned
though wee accuse them not truly of false translation vnlesse it be false in that one Bible which for the present is redde in their Churches or as though it pertained not to them how their other English Bibles be translated or as though the people read not all indifferently without prohibition and may bee abused by euery one of them or as though the Bible which nowe is read as wee thinke in their Churches haue not the like absurde translations yea more absurde euen in this matter of images as is before declared or as though we must first learne what English translation is reade in their Church which were hard to know it changeth so oft before we may be bold to accuse them of false translation or as though it were not the same Bible that was for many yeares read in their Churches and is yet in euery mans handes which hath this absurde translation whereof we haue laste spoken FVLK 10. Mine answere was framed to Howlets reason who would proue that our seruice was naught because the Scriptures were therein redde in false and shamelesse translations example of whiche hee bringeth 1. Iohn 5. Children keepe your selues from Images To whome mine answere was apte when I saide in the Bible appointed to bee redde in the seruice it is otherwise and as he him self saith it ought to be which answere as though it were made to the generall accusation of our translations you with many supposings as though this as though that would make it seeme to be vnsufficient whereas to Howlets cauill it was not only sufficient but also proper And therfore this is a vaine supposell as though we accuse them not truely of false translation vnlesse it be false in that one Bible whiche for the present is redde in their Churche For we graunt you not the other to be false because this is true and so are all the rest As though it pertayned not to them howe their other English Bibles be translated It pertaineth so farre that if their were a faulte in the former we haue amended it in the later But in that text for which I answered I acknowledge yet no faulte neither is that mine only answere for I proue that Image and Idoll with the Apostle signifieth the same thing Or as though the people redde not all without prohibition and may be abused by euery one of them There is no suche false translation in any of them that the people canne bee abused there by to runne into heresie Yet againe Or as though the Bible which now is redde as we thinke haue not the like absurd translation yea more absurd euē in this matter of Images as is declared before As though you haue proued whatsoeuer you prate of once againe Or as though we must first learne what English translation is redde in their Church which were hard to knowe it changeth so often before we may be bold to accuse them of false translation If you will accuse that translation which is redde in our Church as Howlet doth reason would you should first learne which it is and that is no hard matter seeing there was neuer more appointed than two as oft as you say we chaunge Or at last as though it were not the same Bible that was for many yeares redde in their Churches and is yet in euery mans hands which hath this absurd translation whereof we last spake As though I could prophecie when I answered Howlet for the Bible appointed to be redde in the Church in 1. Iohn 5. that you would finde fault with an other text in that translation that sometime was redde in the church and yet is in many mens hands Which although it be well altered in that point which you quarrell at in the two later translations yet I see no absurditie in the first which for one Greeke word giueth two English words both of one signification yea the later being plainer explicating the former which to English eares is more obscure and lesse vnderstoode MART. 11. Surely the Bible that we most accuse not onely in this point but for sundrye other most grosse faultes and hereticall translations spoken of in other places is that Bible which was auctorised by Cranmer their Archbishop of Canterburie and redde all King Edwards time in their Churches and as it seemeth by the late printing thereof againe anno 1562 a great part of this Queenes reigne And certaine it is that it was so long redde in all their Churches with this venemous and corrupt translation of images alwaies in steede of idols that it made the deceiued people of their secte to despise contemne abandon the very signe and image of their saluation the crosse of Christ the holy roode or crucifixe representing the maner of his bitter passion and death the sacred images of the blessed virgin Mary the mother of God and of S. Iohn Euangelist representing their standing by the crosse at the very time of his passion In so much that now by experience we see the foule inconuenience thereof to wit that all other images and pictures of infamous harlots and heretikes of heathen tyrants and persecutors are lawfull in England at this day and their houses parlours and chambers are garnished with them onely sacredimages and representations of the holy mysterie of our redemption are esteemed idolatrous and haue bene openly defaced in most spitefull maner and burned to the great dishonour of our Sauiour Christ and his Saincts FVLK 11. That Bible perhaps you mislike more than the other translations because Archbishop Cranmer allowed it by his authoritie But howsoeuer it be as I thinke there be more imperfections in it than in the other it is not your accusation without due and substantiall proofe that can make it lesse esteemed with any indifferent or wise man If it haue caused the people to contemne and abandon all Popish Idols there is cause that we shoulde giue God thankes for it Albeit not the translation onely but preaching of the Gospell and Christ crucified especially by which Christ hath bene truely and liuely paynted forth vnto them and euen crucified amonge them hath made them contemne yea and abhorre all carnall and humane deuises of the image of our saluation or representation of his passion by vayne and dead images to be any helpes of faith religion or the worshippe of God Where you saye it is seene by experience that all other images of infamous harlots and heretikes of Heathen tyrants and persecutors are lawefull in England to garnish houses when sacred images are esteemed idolatrous defaced and burned I knowe not well your meaning For if you haue any true images of the Patriarches Prophetes Apostles or other holye persons I thinke they be as lawefull to garnishe priuate houses as the other you speake of Yea the stories of the whole Bible paynted both of the olde Testament and the newe are not forbidden but in many places vsed Prouided alwaies that in the places appoynted for
phrase of Scripture this thirtie yeare but it must needes be verie straunge that this making of Elders hath not all this while bene practised and knowen no not among them selues in any of their Churches within the realme of Englande To Titus they make the Apostle say thus For this cause left I thee in Creta that thou shouldest ordaine ELDERS in euerie citie c. Againe of Paule and Barnabas When they had ordained Elders by Election in euerie congregration Act. 14. If they had sayed plainely as it is in the Greeke and as our forefathers were wont to speake and the truth is Titus was leâ—t in Creta to ordaine Priestes in euerie citie and Paule and Barnabas made Priestes in euerie Church then the people would haue vnderstoode them they know such speaches of old it had bene their ioy comfort to heare it specified in holy Scriptures Now they are tolde an other thing in suche newnesse of speaches and wordes of Elders to be made in euery citie congregation and yet not one citie nor congregation to haue any Elders in all Englande that we know not what is prophane noueltie of wordes which the Apostle willeth to be auoided if this be not an exceeding profane noueltie FVLK 5. When you haue gotteÌ„ a bable you make more of it than of the towre of London for you haue neuer done playing with it It must needes be a clarkely argument that is drawne from the vulgar speaches of making Priests and making Ministers Those Priests or Ministers that are made among vs are the same Elders that the Scripture in Greeke calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the Bishops letters of orders testifying of their ordination call them by none other name but by the name of Presbyteri which the Scripture vseth which terme though in English you sounde it Priests Elders Auncients Seniors or Ministers which is the common peoples worde it is the same office which is described by the holy ghost Tit. 1. and in other places of Scripture As for the prophane noueltie wherewith this worde Elder is changed we will consider of it in the next section MART. 6. That it is noueltie to all English Christian eares it is euident And it is also profane because they do so English the Greeke worde of ordaining for of the worde Presbyter we will speake more anone as if they should translate Demosthenes or the lawes of Athens concerning their choosing of Magistrates which was by giuing voices with lifting vp their handes So do they force this worde here to induce the peoples election and yet in their Churches in England the people elect not ministers but their Bishop Whereas the holy Scripture saith they ordained to the people and what soeuer force the word hath it is here spoken of the Apostles and pertaineth not to the people and therefore in the place to Titus it is another worde which cannot be forced further than to ordaine and appoint And they might know if malice and Heresic would suffer them to see and confesse it that the holy Scriptures and fathers and Ecclesiasticall custome hath drawen this and the like words from their profane and common signification to a more peculiar and Ecclesiasticall speach as Episcopus an ouerseer in Tulite is a Bishop in the new Testament FVLK 6. The name Elders vsed in our translation is neither more nouell to English eares nor more prophane to godly eares than the name Auncients which your translation vseth And yet I thinke the Apostle 1. Tim. 6. spake not of noueltie to English eares but of that which was newe to the eares of the Churche of God But the worde Elders I weene muste be prophane because we English the Greeke worde of ordeining as if wee should translate Demosthenes or the Lawes of Athens concerning the choosing of Magistrates Doth not this cauill redounde more against the holy Ghost to accuse his stile of prophanenesse which vseth the same wordes for the ordeining of Priestes that Demosthenes or the lawes of AtheÌ„s might vse for choosing of their Magistrates But this worde we enforce you say to enduce the peoples election and yet the Bishop not the people elect our ministers We meane not to enforce any other election than the worde doth signifie Neyther doth our Bishops if they doe well ordeine any Ministers or Priestes without the Testimonie of the people or at leastwise of such as be of moste credite where they are knowne Where you vrge the pronowne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to them as though the people gaue no consent nor testimonie it is more than ridiculous and beside that contrarie to the practise of the primitiue Churche for many hundreth yeares after the Apostles as also that you would inforce vpon the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vsed by S. Paule Tit. 1. as though that worde of constitution did exclude election That the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the Fathers of the Church since the Apostles hath bene drawne to other signification than it had before it is no reason to teach vs howe it was vsed by the Apostles Election is an indifferent thing the election of Bishops Elders or Priestes is an holy thing the holynesse whereof is not included in the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but in the holy institution of Christ and authoritie by appointment deliuered by imposition of the handes of the Eldership MART. 7. And coÌ„cerning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we now speake of S. Hierom telleth them in c. 58. Esai that it signifieth Clericorum ordinationem that is giuing of holy orders whiche is done not onely by praier of the voice but by imposition of the hande according to S. Paul vnto Timothee Manus citò nemini imposueris Impose or put hands quickly on no man That is be not hastie or easie to giue holy orders Where these great etymologistes that so straine the originall nature of this worde to profane stretching forth the hand in elections may learne an other Ecclesiasticall erymologie thereof as proper and as well deduced of the worde as the other to wit putting forth the hand to giue orders and so they shall finde it is all one with that which the Apostle calleth imposition of hands 1. Tim. 4 2. Tim 1 and consequently for ordaining Elders by election they should haue sayd ordaining or making Priests by imposition of handes as else where S. Paule 1. Tim. 5. and the Actes of the Apostles Act. 6. and 13. do speake in the ordaining of the seuen Deacons and of S. Paul and Barnabas FVLK 7. The testimonie of S. Hierome whom you cite you vnderstand not for speaking there of the extension of the finger which the septuaginta translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and God requireth to be taken away he saith Many of our interpreters do vnderstande it of the ordination of Clerkes which is performed not onely at the imprecation of voice but also at the imposition of
hāds least as we haue laughed at in some men the secrete imprecation of the voyce should ordaine Clerkes being ignorant thereof And so proceedeth to inueigh against the abuse of them that would ordaine Clerkes of their basest officers and seruitours yea at the request of foolish women By which it is manifest that his purpose is not to tell what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly doth signifie but that imposition of handes is required in lawfull ordination which many did vnderstand by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 although in that place it signified no such matter And therefore you muste seeke further authoritie to proue your Ecclesiasticall etymologie that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth putting foorth of the handes to giue orders The places you quote in the margent out of the titles of Nazianzens sermons are to no purpose although they were in the texte of his Homilies For it appeareth not although by Synecdoche the whole order of making Clerkes were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that election was excluded where there was ordination by imposition of handes As for that you cite out of Ignatius proueth against you that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differeth from imposition of hands because it is made a distinct office from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that signifieth to lay on handes and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by your owne author doe differ MART. 8. But they are so profane and secular that they translate the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all the new Testament as if it had the old profane signification still were indifferent to signifie the auncients of the Iewes the Senatours of Rome the elders of Lacedemonia and the Christian Clergie In so much that they say Paul sent to Ephesus and called the Elders of the Church Act. 20. and yet they were such as had their flockes and cure of soules as foloweth in the same place They make S. Paul speake thus to Timothee Neglect not the gift so they had rather say than grace lest holy orders should be a Sacrament giuen thee with the laying on of the handes of the Eldership or by the authoritie of the Eldership 1. Tim. 4. What is this companie of Eldership Somewhat they woulde say like to the Apostles worde but they will not speake plainly least the worlde might heare out of the Scriptures that Timothee was made Priest or Bishop euen as the vse is in the Catholike Churche at this day Lette the fourth Councell of Carthage speake for bothe partes indifferently and tell vs the Apostles meaning A Prieste when hee taketh his orders the Bishoppe blessing him and holding his hande vppon his head let all the Priestes also that are present holde their handes by the Bishops hand vpon his head So doe our priestes as this daye when a Bishop maketh priests and this is the laying on of the handes of the companie of Priests which S. Paule speaketh of which they translate the companie of the Eldership Onely their former translation of 1562. in this place by what chaunce or consideration we know not let fall out of the penne by the authoritie of Priesthood FVLK 8. We desire not to be more holy in the englishe termes than the holye Ghost was in the Greeke termes Whome if it pleased to vse such a word as is indifferent to signifie the auncients of the Iewes the Senators of Rome the Elders of Lacedemonia and the Christian Cleargie why shoulde we not truely translate it into English But I pray you in good sadnes are we so profane and secular Act. 20. in calling those whome Saint Paule sent for out of Ephesus Elders What shall we saye then of the vulgar Latine text which calleth them Maiores natu as though they obtayned that degree by yeares rather than by any thing else and why doe you so profanely and secularly call them the Auncients of the Church Is there more profanenesse and secularitie in the Englishe worde Elders than in the Latine worde Maiores natu or in your Frenchenglishe terme Auncients Surely you doe nothing but play with the noses of such as be ignorant in the tongues and can perceiue no similitude or difference of these wordes but by the sounde of their eares But nowe for the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vsed by Saint Paule 1. Tim. 4. which we call the Eldershippe or the companye of Elders I haue shewed before howe it is vsed by Saint Luke in his Gospell cap. 22. and Act. 22. You saye we will not speake playnely lest the worlde shoulde heare that Timothie was made Priest or Bishop euen as the vse is in the Catholike Church at this day And then you tell vs out of the Councell of Carthage 4. cap. 3. that all the Priestes present shoulde laye their handes on the heade of him that is ordayned togither with the Bishoppe We knowe it well and it is vsed in the Church of England at this daye Onely the terme of Eldership displeaseth you when we meane thereby the companye of Elders But whereas the translators of the Bible 1562. call it Priesthood eyther by Priesthood they meant the same that we doe by Eldershippe or if they meant by Priesthood the office of Priestes or Elders they were deceiued For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth a companie of Elders as it is twise vsed by S. Luke and oftentimes by the auncient writers of the Church both Greekes and Latines MART. 9. Otherwise in all their English Bibles all the bells ringe one note as The Elders that rule well are worthye of double honour And Against an Elder receiue no accusation but vnder two or three witnesses 1. Tim. 5. And If any be diseased among you let him call for the Elders of the Church and let them pray ouer him and annoynt him with oyle c. Iacob 5. Wheras Saint Chrysostom out of this place proueth the high dignitie of Priestes in remitting sinnes in his booke entituled Of Priesthood vnlesse they will translate that title also Of Eldershippe Againe they make S. Peter saye thus The Elders which are among you I exhort which am also an Elder feedeye Christes flocke as much as lyeth in you c. 1. Pet 5. FVLK 9. In these three textes you triumphe not a litle because your vulgar Latine text hath the Greeke worde Presbyter The high dignitie of Priestes or Elders in remitting sinnes we acknowledge with Chrysostom in his booke entitled of Priesthood which seing it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we will neuer translate Eldershippe But we may lawfully wishe that both Chrysostom and other auncient writers had kept that distinction of termes which the Apostles and Euangelists did so precisely obserue In the last text 1. Pet. 5. your vulgar Latine sayth Seniores and Consenior your selues in English seniors and fellow senior What trespasse then haue we committed in saying Elders fellow Elder or an Elder also MART. 10.