infection and to keepe the Church of God pure as Divines teach then thuogh the party offending shall pretend such sins or errours are not against his knowne light neither contrary to the received principles of Christianity universally acknowledged in all the rest of the Churches yet Excommunication ought to be exercised by them who have power in the Church And for our direction in these or whatsoever else requisite to the manage of them We had these three principles more especially in our eye to guide and steere our practise by 1. First The supreame rule without us was the Primitive patterne and example of the Churches erected by the Apostles Our consciences were possessed with that reverence and adoration of the fulnesse of the Scriptures that there is therein a compleate sufficiencie as to make the man of God perfect so also to make the Churches of God perfect meere circumstances we except or what rules the law of nature doth in common dictate if the directions and examples therein delivered were fully knowne and followed And although we cannot professe that sufficiencie of knowledge as to be able to lay forth all those rules therein which may meet with all cases and emergencies that may or sometimes did fall out amongst us or that may give satisfaction unto all Queries possible to be put unto us yet we found principles enough not only fundamentall and essentiall to the being of a Church but superstructorie also for the well-being of it and those to us cleare and certain and such as might well serve to preserve our Churches in peace and from offence and would comfortably guide us to heaven in a safe way And the observation of so many of those particulars to be laid forth in the word became to us a more certaine evidence and cleare confirmation that there were the like rules and ruled cases for all occasions whatsoever if we were able to discerne them And for all such cases wherein we saw not a cleare resolution from Scripture example or direction we still professedly suspended untill God should give us further light not daring to seeke out what was defective in our light in matters divine with humanâ—… prudence thâ—… fatall errour to Reformation lest by sowing any peece of the old garment unto the new we should make the rent worse we having this promise of grace for our encouragement in this which in our publike Assemblies was often for our comfort mentioned that in thus doing the will of God we should know more From the Narration of your way and practises of your Churches you come now to shew the three great principles above all others by which you guided your selves in your practise which I come now to examine and doubt not but as you have exprest them to discover to the Readers their weaknesse and defectivenesse and easily to take off all the seeming strength of the reasons hinted in them for your selves and against us To the first Principle the supreame rule without you the primitive patterne and example of the Churches erected by the Apostles which also is exprest by you in the third page as that sacredpillar of fire to guide you by in all the positive part of Church worship and Government I answer why is the old Testament forgotten by you and in both these places not so much as mentioned What is the old Testament no patterne nor example to you in Church-worship and governement nor is there nothing recorded there any part of the sacred pillar of fire to guide you by Consider whether in this you follow not too much the example of some Heretiques and erroneous spirits who will have nothing to doe with the old Testament in the points they hold This is the way of the Anabaptists and of the Antinomians both of old and at this day and I am sorry such men as you in such a formall Apologie and Narration of your way as you hold out this to be should so farre forget your selves as to countenance such persons so farre And I must tell you that your search was insufficient and your rule too short if you looked only on the first Apostolike directions patterne and examples of those Primitive Churches erected by the Apostles For in the old Testament there are many rules directions and examples as a pillar of fire to guide the Churches now by as that Rom. 15. 4. showes namely those examples and rules of morall and common equitie else the Church of God should loose now many a good ground for many practises and you and your partie have been ill advised to fetch grounds out of the old Testament for many things you hold and practise There are some things you practise that you have no proofe for at all out of the new Testament either in example or precept As for instance in the point of Ordination by the people without Officers you alleadge the 8. Numb 20. but can bring none out of the new Testament so for the Church-covenant you multiply places out of the old as Ier. 50. 5. c. But none out of the new and so for that power which you allow Christian Magistrates in the Church you fetch from the old Testament So in the point of idolatrie against the naming the names used by Idolaters you bring all out of the old Testament as Mr Burroughs in his Exposition on Hosea 2. And without the taking in the old Testament which you so wholly forget in this your first principle you would loose much strength in severall points you hold and practise against some who differ from you As in the Baptisme of Infants from the Covenant made with Abraham and his seed and the Circumcision of Infants as in keeping the Christian Sabbath from the fourth Commandement as in speaking against humane inventions in the worship of God from the second Commandement with other particulars of the same kind Now if you will use the old Testament in some examples and commands as you doe though here you forget to mention it Then grounds out of the old Testament in matters not ceremoniall and judiciall proper to the Jewes policie Nation and times but in things of morall and common equitie will justifie other practises And how then you can escape in the way of Church government the lawfullnesse of appeales from lower Judicatories to higher and the lawfullnesse of Formes of publike prayer composed and prescribed with other particulars I see not But because you foresaw these and such like as that of a Nationall Church you here decline the old Testament and speake only of the New and but of a part only of that too namely that of the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles as your words in both pages third and ninth intimate The Churches erected by the Apostles and the first Apostolike directions patternes and examples of the Primitive Churches recorded in the new Testament which reaches no farther then the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles But though you doe
aâ—…itted to fellowship with you in the Lords Supper whether would you have admitted us Now to that passage of yours in the close of this first instance and Churches made up of such we were sure no Protestant could but approve of c. This goes upon the mistake observed by me before That the question in controversie about Church-members is not nor cannot be meant Whether Churches made up of such members as all account faithfull be by all Protestants approved of to be true Churches with whom communion may be held But whether communion may not be held with such Churches and such received into communion and fellowship of Churches whom many Churches especially yours and those of the Church-way doe not upon your principles acknowledge true and fit matter And in this I am sure all Protestants of note are against you and for us accounting such visible Churches as you here instance in an Utopia holding it Donatisme and Anabaptisme and when the Papists doe in their writings father upon them such a visible Church as you dreame of and such principles as you hold they disclaime it as learned Whitakers it being the constant opinion of all the great Protestant Divines Calvin Luther Zanchius Iunius c. That the visible Church of Christ consists of good and bad resembled therefore to a field net floore where chasse as well as good graine c. Againe concerning the great ordinance of publike Prayer and the Liturgie of the Church whereas there is this great controversie upon it about the lawfulnesse of set-formes prescribed we practised without condemning others what all sides doe allow and themselves doe practise also that the publicke prayers in our Assemblies should be framed by the meditations and studie of our owne Ministers out of their owne gifts the fruits of Christs Ascension as well as their Sermons use to be This we were sure all allowed of though they super-added the other To this 2d Instance concerning the great ordinance of publicke prayer and the Liturgie of the Church I shall give you one Answer after another following you according to your expressions upon it wherein I finde you like your selves in the other precedent parts in generals and in the darke so as few Readers can tell by your Narration here what you hold and practise about publike prayer 1. Wheras you say There is this great controversie upon it about the lawfulnesse of set-formes prescribed I must tell you this great controversie upon it is raised onely by your selves and the Brownists there being no Divines nor no Reformed Churches that I know of but doe allow the lawfull use of set-formes of prayer composed and framed by others as by Synods and Assemblies and doe make use of such sometimes as the Churches of France and Holland in the administration of Sacraments usually doe and those who practise them not so much yet at least hold them lawfull And I challenge you in all your reading to name one Divine of note and Orthodox that ever held set-formes of prayer prescribed unlawfull excepting only Independents 2. What understand you by set-formes prescribed whether prayers onely made and framed by others As suppose by an Assembly or Synod but yet not imposed or whether prayers composed by others and then prescribed and required by authoritie to be used Now if you say you understand it in the second sence that you question the lawfulnesse of that but not in the first I aske you whether you will practise and doe hold it lawfull to use in your Assemblies Prayers made and framed by others As suppose a directory for worship which I the rather aske you because your words afterwards hinted as the ground for your owne practise and against the practises of the Reformed Churches speake against all set-formes of prayer composed by others That the publike prayers in our Assemblies should be framed by the meditations and studie of our owne Ministers out of their owne gifts which reacheth to all prayers framed by other men though they be left at libertie to use or not use them And further this argument of yours speakes only against formes of prayer as in the first sence but speaks not at all to it as imposed and enjoyned but let your expressions of set-formes of prayer prescribed be taken in the second sence yet I am readie to maintaine against you that set-formes of Prayer lawfull for their materials and establisht by a lawfull power to be used in the publick Assemblies may lawfully be practised by Ministers and the people safely joyne in them 3. As I askt of you in what sence you tooke set-formes prescribed so I desire to know whether in the questioning of the lawfulnesse of set-formes of prayer you understand onely formes of prayer framed by men and Ministers in the Church or whether not also prayers recorded in the Scriptures as for instance the Lords prayer whether ever you practise the use of that in your Assemblies which question I make because I never heard that any of you five ever used the Lords prayer either in your owne Assemblies or in ours nor indeed that any of your way did it being now made by many a note of a Formalist Now if you account the use of it lawfull considering the great offence the totall disuse of it gives to many and how it hinders the word to many considering that Scripture with other like 1 Cor. 10. 32. I wonder how you dare neglect it and by the way let me tell you that 1 Cor. 10. 32. is stronger to command you the use of the Lords prayer then for what it is alleadged by you in the 17. page namely for your principle of submission of Churches c. And I propound to you further whether if some other prayers word for word recorded in the Scriptures should be put into a directorie you would use them As also whether you would practise the reading of set Psalmes and Chapters appointed out for you 4. As for the practising your owne prayers without condemning others I answer that is not so 1. Because you bring many arguments against set-formes of prayer framed by others and prescribed that amount to a condemnation in a high nature terming such prayers will-worship inventions of men as is evident both by Manuscripts and by printed Discourses of Mr Davenports M. Cottons M. Nyes 2. You with-drew from our Sacraments and publicke Assemblies upon this ground and have drawne many away with you and have set up new Churches But it may be you will in this Narration have this evasion that though you condemne the practise yet not all the persons that use them you doe not condemne them as ungodly I answer no more doe the rigid Brownists nor Anabaptists who yet condemne sufficiently our Churches and our prayers and yours too for they acknowledge both you and us to have eminent personall graces 5. As to that Argument brought by you for conceived prayers but against set-formes made by
other men I briefly suggest these following things to you and the Reader 1. That by your owne concession set formes of prayer are not unlawfull because they be set and framed before hand and not conceived suddenly wherein you grant that the publicke prayers in the Assemblies may be premeditated framed and studied before hand as well as Sermons which concession takes off one of the strongest Arguments used against set-formes of prayer 2. I answer it is not against the fruites of Christs ascension into Heaven and of giving gifts unto men for the Ministery that they doe not alwayes in all their prayers exercise their own gifts of invention and composall of prayer for so the using of the Lords prayer should be unlawfull at any time for the Ministers which is no prayer framed out of their owne meditations and studie and their owne gifts 3. I answer there is a great dissimilitude in many respects betweene Sermons and prayers so that it will not hold though Sermons ought to be framed alwaies out of our owne gifts that therefore prayers alwayes should be And this I will demonstrate in a Discourse of the lawfulnesse of using set-formes of prayer composed by others 4. It is not against the fruit of Christs ascension nor the gifts given then for Ministers in some instructions and teachings of the people to make use of some thing sometimes in publike either doctrinall or practicall not framed out of their owne gifts but by others As suppose the reading in the Congregation to the people often some confession of faith or some exhortation about maine things of use to them having still the free use of their giftsto preach besides 5. Suppose you five should joyne together out of your owne meditations and studies exercising your owne gifts to frame publicke prayers of maine petitions needfull for the state of all your Churches whether might they be used by you in your publick Assemblies 6. Whether each of you by your selves framing upon meditation and studie a set-forme of prayer may not use that often in your Assemblies without sinne having also your liberty to adde conceived prayers at the same time But to put all out of question about the second instance I judge that set formes of prayer prescribed taken in both senses that is neither made nor framed out of the gifts of the persons who use them nor left at liberty but by publike consent agreed upon to be used are not unlawfull to be practised but the Scriptures give us examples for such prayers as in 2 Chron. 29. 30. Moreover Hezekiah the King and the Princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the Lord with the words of David and of Asaph the Seer and they sang praises with gladnesse and they bowed their heads and worshipped And therefore the use of set formes of prayer framed and composed by others and prescribed having example in Scripture as well as conceived are no additament nor superaddition but the reformed Churches in practising both practise most safely according to Scripture patternes and your Churches using only one sort and not the other leave to follow examples recorded in Scripture and we may more justly cast upon you the taking away from Scripture taking away being a like branded by Scripture as adding But you doe unjustly cast upon the reformed Churches adding to the word the Scriptures holding out examples for both And for the further clearing your mistakes in this great ordinance of publike prayer I shall only adde this all that God hath commanded either in the old Testament or new about publike prayer is that prayers be made in the publike Assemblies and that those prayers be of petitions for their matter and kind lawfull according unto the will of God directed unto God alone in the Name of Christ with humility fervency faith and such like but that God hath required that as oft as Ministers pray they must put up prayers framed by their own meditations and studies out of their own gifts and that the words and phrases must be various and diversified or else their prayers are not lawfull there is never such a sillable to proove it in the Scripture But we have examples of both namely set and conceived and Gods servants used both indifferently and we may use both according as we see occasion and as we find may make most for edification and Gods glory And I desire you in your Reply to this Answer to give any instance to the contrary and I shall thanke you for I seek truth and peace and not victory nor contention And let me mind you whilst you goe about in this instance to cleare your selves of additaments you are in this and other instances guilty of taking away from the Word falling short as in other things practising above what is written besides your different way of practising in some things So likewise for the government and discipline in the Churches however the practise of the reformed Churches is in greater matters to governe each particular Congregation by a combined Presbytery of the Elders of severall Congregations united in one for government yet so as in their judgments they allow especially in some cases a particular Congregation an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction to be exercised by the Elders thereof within it selfe Yea and our owne Mr Cartwright holy Baynes and other old Non-conformists place the power of excommunication in the Eldership of each particular Church with the consent of the Church untill they doe miscarry and then indeed they doe subject them to such Presbyteriall and Provinciall Assemblies as the proper refuge for appeales and for compounding of differences amongst Churches which combination of Churches others of them therefore call Ecclesiae ortae but particular Congregations Ecclesiae primae as wherein firstly the power and priviledge of a Church is to be exercised And withall we could not but imagine that the first Churches planted by the Apostles were ordinarily of no more in one City at first then might make up one entire Congregation ruled by their own Elders that also preached to them for that in every City where they came the number of converts did or should arise to such a multitude as to make severall and sundry Congregations or that the Apostles should stay the setting up of any Churches at all untill they rose to such a numerous multiplication as might make such a Presbyteriall combination we did not imagine We found also those non-conformists that wrote against the Episcopall government in their answer to the arguments used for Episcopall government over many Churches brought from the instances of the multitude of believers at Ierusalem and other places and Cities mentioned in the new Testament to assert that it would not be infallibly proved that any of those we read of in the Acts and elsewhere were yet so numerous as necessarily to exceed the limits of one particular Congregation in those first times We found it also granted by them all
HAving diligently perused this Antapologia I find it so full and just and necessary an examination and discovery of the Apologeticall Narration both in matters of fact and of opinion that because I dare not as too many have the faith of our Lord Iesus Christ the Lord of glory with respect of persons I approve it to be imprinted and commend it Reader to thy most serious consideration Ia. Cranford ANTAPOLOGIA Or A Full Answer to the Apologeticall Narration OF Mr Goodwin Mr Nye Mr Sympson Mr Burroughs Mr Bridge Members of the Assembly of Divines Wherein is handled many of the Controversies of these Times viz. 1. Of a particular visible Church 2. Of Classes and Synods 3. Of the Scriptures how farre a Rule for Church Government 4. Of Formes of Prayer 5. Of the Qualifications of Church members 6. Of SubmissioÌ„ Non-CoÌ„munioÌ„ 7. Of Excommunication 8. Of the Power of the Civill Magistrate in Ecclesiasticals 9. Of Separation and Schisme 10. Of Tolerations and particularly of the Toleration of Independencie 11. Of Suspension from the Lords Supper 12. Of Ordination of Ministers by the people 13. Of Church Covenant 14. Of Non-residencie of Church-members Humbly also submitted to the Honourable Houses of Parliament By THOMAS EDWARDS Minister of the Gospel Ephes. 4. 14. That we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the slâ—…ight of men and cunning craftinesse whereby they lie in wait to deceive Vers. 〈◊〉 But speaking the truth in love may grow up into him in all things which is the head even Christ. Matth. 24. 26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you Behold he is in the desart go not forth Behold he is in the secret chambers believe it not Augustinus Vincentio epist. 48. Non enim propter malos boni deserendi sed propter bonos mali tolerandi â—…ti sicut toleraverunt prophetae contra quos 〈◊〉 dicebant 〈◊〉 communionem sacramentorum illius populi relinquebant Bezae epist. prima D'Andreae Duditio lactabimusne libertatem conscientiis permittendam esse Minime ut haec quidem liberta intelligitur id est ut quo quisque modo volet Deum colat Est enim hoc mere diabolicum dogma Sinendum esse unumquemque ut si volet pereat Et illa est diabolica libertas quae Poloniam Transylvaniam hodiè tot pestibus implevit quas nullae alioqui sub sole regiones toleratent London Printed by G. M. for Ralph Smith at the Bible in Cornhill neer the Royall Exchange 1644. To the tender Consciensed scrupulous doubting Christian. DEare and beloved Christians for your salâ—…es in speciall who are apt to be troubled with many doubts and feares about the Constitution and Government of the visible Church and the way of Worship and Communion in it have I drawn up this present Answer as to undeceive you in the Apologists the Apologie and their Church-way so to satisfie you in your scruples and doubts about Presbyterie It was my love care and respect to tender consciences that more especially moved me at first now some seven yeares agoe to fall upon the more thorough studying and searching into the controversies of the Church c. And the grounds which now of late have afresh revived my thoughts and studies that way are 1. The recovering and reducing conscientious Christians who are not too far engaged 2. The setling some who are wavering and doubtfull 3. The keeping of others from falling Now the first borne of my latter thoughts and studies in this kind is this Antapologiâ—… which I here recommend to you for a true glasse to behold the faces of Presbyterie and Independencie in with the beauty order strength of the one and the deformity disorder and weaknesse of the other And good Reader I have some reason to beleeve and hope that if you will indeed reade and consider looke impartially and throughly into this glasse you may be either changed into the image of it or at least so stumbled at Independencie as to be kept from falling into it and willing in the meane time to waite upon God in that way of his an Assembly of so many learned and godly Divines to see what he will be pleased to speake by them I at first intended and accordingly provided materials for a large Epistle to this Book the more to make way for it in the hearts and consciences of the people as well knowing there are laid in before hand by many of the Independent party many prejudices both against my person and the Book to hinder if possible the fruit and benefit of it yea to keep people from so much as reading any part of it that so receiving and beleeving the Independent Grounds without hearing or examining the other side they may be still kept in ignorance and error I had many thoughts and purposes in my Epistle to have given the Reader an accompt of my especiall call to the making this Answer as also to have laid downe the Principles and Rules I more especially went by in the studying of these controversies and then to have Apologized for my selfe and Book by answering some objections and clearing aspersions cast abroad in this mistaking age and by representing to the Reader my many sufferings constant labours c. and so to have compared my grounds moving me to make this Antapologia with the Apologists grounds occasioning their Apologeticall Narration and my Principles with their three Principles expressed in their Apologie and my sufferings troubles patience and labours with their exile and patience c. and then left them to the Reader to judge in those matters between us but conceiving the danger of this way in comparing with the Apologists least I might become a foole in glorying and runne into the same fault I charge upon the Apologists and least it might be thought I sought to commend my Answer by such wayes rather then by the strength of the discourse it selfe I resolved to forbeare all those comparisons and vindications of my selfe and to refer all to God and that I may not hold the Reader too long in the portch I will only insist somewhat upon justifying and clearing the lawfulnesse of the way and manner of this Answer and the grounds I goe upon for matters of fact reported in it and this I must doe of necessitie for besides other grounds calling for it within these few dayes just before the Antapologie was comming forth a Pamphlet entituled The Anatomist Anatomized was printed rather to prepossesse the Reader against the Antapologie then to answer the Anatomie of Independencie as all may see and to be a shelter rather against this shower as the Anatomizer calls it ready to fall then to dry up the drops already fallen But 〈◊〉 shall by the helpe of God not only satisfie the Reader that this covering is too narrow and the stuffe too slight to keep out the shower from wetting but make an advantage of it even
of this they make things accidentally evill according as this is things are or are not ordinances and meanes of salvation Baptisme is no baptisme unlesse it be administered by a Minister A Minister is no Minister unlesse cal'd by the Church and so I might speake of other things By all which it will appeare that Mr Simpson had thoughts and doubts and would have others have such thoughts too that we have neither Churches nor Ordinances nor Ministers according to his definition of a Church and to the matter contained in his letter and in the close of his letter though he writes I meddle not with judging of these things with you but propound you a rule or way to judge of things by I dare not say your Congregations are not Churches but desire you to looke that they be so for your owne peace yet it is evident by what he sayes in his letter that he accounts neither our Churches nor our Ministers true and would stumble him in these things to whom he wrote I have a manuscript entituled a Treatise of the Church going under the name of one of these Apologists and a godly Minister from whose hands I had it assured it me it was his In which Treatise there is an answer to this question But suppose Saints live in a Nation wherein there is some kind of a Church constituted already may they gather themselves into a Church The Answer is as followes 1. If you suppose that there are Churches in England yet such as never were truly members of any of them are free to begin and gather themselves into a Church and to be of the best Institution they can this libertie we under the Gospel have which the Jewes had not 2. Although they are Churches yet we â—…re not to continue in them and not remaine from them 1. In that they are Churches defective in some Ordinances as namely Prophecying mutuall admonition excommunication 2. They are Churches defiled in our judgements in which communicating we cannot but be defiled now though they be Churches as a leprous man was a man yet being defiled we cannot communiâ—…ate with them and so in regard of our use now no Churches and in the same page it is added we may be kept from joyning with the true Church and yet not withdraw from these as no Churches but as no Churches of use to us Now I appeale to the Reader what he can judge of your profession in the sixt page and of these passages in your letters and manuscripts and as some of your hands are contrary to this profession so your workes are contrary to it in forsaking the communion of our Churches and ministerie and in drawing others away and in writing to many to come to you and in setting up Churches and pray deale ingeniously once in your Reply seeing you ever held and doe now much more that our Assemblies are true Churches and our Ministers true Ministers how you can satisfie your owne consciences and us from any Scripture ground either of precept or example to separate from us I am assured you cannot produce any ground and that all Scripture instances whether in examples or precepts will never come up to your practise and case But Brethren why will you in a Narration that should be plaine that all who â—…unne may reade it deale thus fallaciously amuse the Reader with your profession of our Churches and Ministerie in such generals and never declare what you hold particularly of them Few Readers unlesse some who have throughly studied your principles and distinctions being never the wiser for your profession I must therefore of necessity English your words and tell the meaning of all this That is neither the Church or Churches of England nor the Ministery thereof as they are in their frame and constitution according to the Lawes and as they are in their visible order are true Churches or true Ministerie But now so farre as in many of our Parochiall Congregations there is something common with what you hold about a Church and Ministerie so farre true and not Antichristian As for example you hold that in some Congregations we have many visible Saints and in some Parishes Ministers chosen by the people which Ministers preach and pray according to your way but for what we else practise in our making of Ministers in our formes of prescribed prayers c. So no true Churches nor Ministerie And that this is your meaning will appeare by what followes 1. Letters and speeches of some of your way who write not so warily as you show so much Mr Batchelour a member of your Church-way in printed letters of his dated from Rotterdam September the 4th 1641. both to Ministers here in London and to Citizens speakes thus in reference to you And whereas it is beleeved they are friends to separation this I can assure you that they denie not the Churches in England such as M. Calamies and M. Goodwins in Coleman-street to be true Churches And why M. Goodwins and M. Calamies but because they were chosen by the Congregations and there are many visible Saints in those Congregations and so others of your way having been reasoned with how according to your principles That there is no Nationall visible Church under the new Testament no visible Church but a particular Congregation and that the Essence of Ministers calling is Election by the people and that the forme of a Church is a particular Covenant with other things of this Nature And therefore considering the Church of England is Nationall and hath no such Covenant nor such a way of Ministerie how they could hold we had true Churches and true Ministers Their Answer hath been You have Implicite Churches and Implicite Ministers But if you will say you understand your words in this Section not as M. Batchelour nor as others of your way but plainly as Divines usually take Churches and Ministerie then I desire you to reconcile together all your definitions and descriptions of true visible Churches and true Ministers with our Church and Ministery of England And for further satisfaction in this point I desire you in your reply to this Answer candidly and clearely to expresse your selves when you fell to your Church-way and were to be taken for Ministers in those Churches whether you held your selves or were look'd upon by your Churches as true Ministers by vertue of your calling in England Or whether rather you were not lookt upon only as gifted men and did not some of you at least renounce and disclaime your calling in England and were made Ministers a new by the Church consisting only of people or lay-Elders at the best without Ministers M. Williams in his Answer to M. Cottons letter openly justifies they held and practised so in New-England Now your principles agreeing so with theirs and some Stories related to me of some of you makes me doubt the same of you As for that reason you give why you never held our Churches no
true Churches namely your seeing that if you had accounted our Churches no true Churches that by the same reason the Churches abroad in Scotland Holland c. yet for their mixture must in like manner be judged no Churches also I answer 't is no concluding Argument M. Robinson who was quick-sighted and lived in Holland long and seeing their mixture yet acknowledges those Churches true but denies ours to be true upon other grounds besides the mixture and 't is evident your reason is insufficient for if your description of a visible Church were only upon difference in the point of mixture and your grounds of separation only upon mixt communion then your Reason had some weight in it but you know your exceptions were many against our Churches which lay not against the Reformed Churches but it is strange to me if you were so good at consequences that you saw and could not but see when there was no necessitie of seeing you could not see the necessarie consequences of your principles about a Church and Ministerie nay not see even your contradictions For let a man but take your owne Positions and Assertions concerning a true visible Church and the true calling of Ministers and lay together your quarrelling with us and leaving us upon those grounds because we have no such Churches and Ministers and yeâ—… to affirme that multitudes of our Parochiall Churches are true Churches And certainly however you who are Schollars might be such good Logicians to make such distinctions to salve all as you conceited yet your people could not but they from your principles and positions about Church Ministerie Worship and Government have judged us no true Churches nor true Ministers but have wondred at this sincere profession of yours before God and the world concerning our Churches and Ministers saying they understood you otherwise and they were much deceived if you held not otherwise at first though now you expresse your selves after this manner And I can hardly beleeve had you made alwaies and frequently such professions of our Churches and Ministers and of keeping communion with them as the Churches of Christ that ever so many had fallen off to your way But thus 't is in all the way of errours men by sits will expresse things as other men do who are Orthodox but yet in a sence of their own to avoid exceptions and that they may be thought to hold as others do therby the more to draw and work some men off to their way when yet in the common sense and understanding of the points they hold otherwise As the Socinians say they hold Christ God and call him so but in a sence of their own and yet denie it in the Orthodox sense So Pelagians and Arminians will extoll the grace of God and that a man can doe nothing without it and yet in that sence wherein the controversie is they set up free-will above the grace of God And so Antinomians will say they doe not denie the law of God and yet in the sense controverted are flat against it And so the Papists will say they hold and looke to be saved by Christ as well as any Protestant though it 's well knowne there is a great difference betweene them in the point of Justification So you and many of your way in a sense of your owne give us good words and say we have true Churches and true Ministerie and yet in the sense of the controversie you teach flat contrary as doth appeare both by printed Tractâ—…tes and by manuscripts and many practises As to that Profession in this Section That in the times when the Churches of England were most either actually overspread with defilements or in the greatest danger therof that we both did and would bold a communion with them as the Churches of Christ I answer what doe I heare words when I see deeds so contrary How can I beleeve this profession that ye would hold communion with the Churches of England as the Churches of Christ under their greatest defilements when as you have never held communion with any of them in the time of their greatest reformation and puritie In this three yeares last since your comming over wherein we have been so free from pollution in worship and since that in so many Churches in London there hath bin the totall laying aside of prescribed formes of prayer and that great care to keepe away both ignorant and prophane persons Which of you five have received the Lords Supper in any of these true Churches and bodies of Christ I never could learne that any of you five nor any of the members of your Churches have communicated with us I can tell you of the adding to your Church Assemblies great numbers since and of your receiving the Lords Supper at night in private houses and how some of you who have not Churches here in London goe to separated Churches to partake in the Lords Supper But Brethren why doe you deale thus and write thus to make men beleeve as if you held great communion with our Churches now who would have held it with them in such bad times I desire you to speake plaine English and not to speake after this manner as you doe too often in this Apologie and to interpret to us in your Reply to this Answer what you meane by both Did and Would hold communion with the Churches of England as the Churches of Christ I know no communion you did hold or doe with us now though so reformed And if you do and will what means that wall of partition between us your new constituted Churches As for thâ—…â—…aring of Sermons sometimes in our Churches and preachiâ—…g in our Congregations I doubt whether you hold that a keeping communion with our Churches and Ministers but rather preach as gifted men and heare ours as gifted men and how ever if M. Robinson and some of your way may be beleeved they hold hearing of the Word no Act of Communion nor no proper nor peculiar thing of the Church And that you are of the same judgement I have great reason both from your principles and practise to thinke so As for that reall testimonie besides your profession That some of us after we actually were in this way of communion baptized our children in Parishionall Congregations whereby you would inferre you held a communion with our Congations as the Churches of Christ I answer this is no reall testimony thereof because it cannot be understood but in the sense before opened of Churches and Ministery And besides if Mr Sympson were one of this Some who baptized his children in Parishionall Congregations 't is so inconsistent with what he writ in the Letter before quoted of the Church and baptisme that I know not how to reconcile these together And the truth is many of your practises are oft times so in-coherent with some of your principles of Church-fellowship as for instance Pastors are necessary Officers in your Churches and yet according
in the Primitive Apostolicall Churches then they will be no additaments or if some of those things alleadged by you be of the nature of circumstances in the point of government and order or according to the rules of the law of nature and the rules of common prudence agreeable also to the generall rules of the word then they are not truly by you called additaments and super-additions for it is one thing to adde to the word of God and his worship and another thing from generall rules of the word and common principles of the light of nature and prudence considering the differences of times places persons dispensations of guifts to explicate and determine of many things in the administration of the visible Church Now of things of this kind something must be which the word of God presupposes or else you can have no setled government in the Church and you may as well stile set Catechismes confessions of Faith reading of Chapters translated by others singing of Psalmes between Chapters and after Sermons preaching constantly upon Texts of Scripture giving thanks after eating meat c. additaments as some of the things instanced in by you And let me hint this to you which I know you understand well enough but forget it often to paralell it with other passages that in your practise of the administration of the Sacraments and in other parts of worship you adde severall things besides what is recorded of Christ or the Apostles practise or given particularly in any precept which I speake not to blame such practises but to minde you such things are not fitly stiled additaments To the third that you have made additaments and superadditions and that in more materiall things then the reformed Churches being your selves guilty of what you accuse them this being the strongest plea and the only plea to speake of in all your book by way of Argument the rest being bare narrations I shall make good against you by particular instances the prooving of which practises of yours from Apostolicall directions must rest upon you who doe them and in so doing have departed from your selves and other reformed Churches amongst many particulars take these following To the Ministeriall preaching and dispensation of the word you subjoyned prophesying by the people 2. To the power of government by the Officers of the Church you have added the power of the people 3. In joyning in particular Congregations you did super-adde the Church-covenant 4. To the Pastour you super-adde the Teacher as a necessary distinct Officer from him and so necessary as in one of your Churches you had two Teachers and have been some yeares without a Pastour at all which is a sad condition for people to be without a Sheapheard 5. To the Deacon you added the Church-widdow as a distinct Officer and as necessary for the perpetuall government of the Church 6. To our Parochiall Assemblies in England which you call in the sixt page the true Churches and body of Christ and abhorre the thought of counting them Antichristian where you say you hold communion as with true Churches you have super-added and erected new-Churches 7. To our Ministery of the Parochiall Assemblies which is true also by your own confession and not Antichristian you have superinstituted and superinducted another Ministery any one of which particulars to be laid downe in the Primitive patterne I professedly deny and it rests upon you who allow what reformed Churches practise but in the particulars instanced and many more doe practise over and above what the reformed Churches doe to make evident and demonstrate upon cleare grounds especially when men set up a new way and leave the practise of all reformed Churches double light being required for separation in any kind whereas single light sufficeth for any man continuing in his standing And certainly of all other things in the matter of practise in the visible Church the medling with the keyes of the kingdome of God both in doctrine and discipline with the withdrawing and forsaking the true Churches of Christ and the Ministerie thereof wherein men have been converted and built up and have converted and built-up so many with the setting up of new Churches against the leave and will of the civill Magistrate without the consent of those Churches departed from and to the scandall and griefe of so many godly Ministers and Christians nay the scandall of all Reformed Churches and all this under pretence of spirituall power and liberty purchased for them by Christ had need have a cleare and full proofe and not be built only upon such weake and slight grounds as flattering similitudes witty allusions remote consequences strained and forced Interpretations from hard and much controverted Scriptures And now by what I have alreadie answered to this Principle in these three particulars let the indifferent Reader and your owne consciences be judge whether you or the Reformed Churches practise most safely and doe that which most Churches acknowledge warrantable and who is most guilty of making additaments when as you and all of your way allow that which they practise in the seven particulars instanced in but you practise many things which all Churches condemne excepting the Churches of the Independent way and if one thing be considered to what I have said that you put the weight and stampe of divine Institution and of necessitie upon your additaments making them parts of worship and essentiall as upon prophecying as upon the office of teachers distinct from Pastours c. but the Reformed Churches in what you call their additaments even in some of them instanced in by you put not so great an authoritie but only an allowance and lawfulnesse of set-formes of prayer prescribed not a necessity but a lawfulnesse of mixtures in Congregations so as not to leave the Church for that and in other practises you count additaments in matters circumstantiall of time place manner and way of doing things which upon good reasons may be changed so that here is a wide difference between that which you call their additaments and yours truly so called and let me adde this that the great pinch of a conscience and the poyson in Ecclesiasticall matters concerning outward Government and order wherein the Scripture hath not laid downe a particular rule for lyes in the stampe of putting a necessitie and a divine Institution upon them and unto such and of such is that Scripture spoken so frequently in the mouthes of men of your way In vaine doe you worship me teaching for doctrine the commandements of men For instance whereas one great controversie of these times is about the qualification of the Members of Churches and the promiscuous receiving and mixture of good and bad therein we chose the better part and to be sure received in none but such as all the Churches in the world would by the ballance of the Sanctuarie acknowledge faithfull And yet in this we are able to make this true and just profession
they held in difference which also they promised with all convenient speed in a short time should be brought in and then they would preach against them Now for the better keeping of the agreement and understanding one another for preventing mistakes and differences amongst us a Committee was chosen out of the Company some of them and some of our side to draw up the particulars in writing which was accordingly done and the Agreement under the hands of both sides for our part was to be left with M. Calamie at whose house we met that so if any difference did arise or complaint come we might recurre to the writing drawne up betweene us and accordingly doe Now this strict engagement entred into by you with the rest of your brethren in the Ministery for common ends brought by you here as one great ground of not attempting to make a party and of your deepe silence and forbearance no one thing that ever was done by you was more advantageous to your side and to the increasing of a party which indeed proved as it was feared it would and was by my selfe and some others objected as a ground against any such agreement for looke what came of the Declarations set out by the King by meanes of the Bishops that in the Arminian points there should be on both sides a totall silence in preaching and printing namely a greater prevailing of the Arminian points and spreading of them but a suppressing of the Orthodox so fell it out here for by that meanes nothing was preached nor printed against their way to hinder the growth of it but in the meane time many things were preached and printed for it our side made conscience of the promise and forbore totally preaching and printing For my owne part though for many Reasons I desired to have been excepted from the agreement as being engaged by a former promise in print to set out speedily some Tractates against their way and never did formally promise silence yet because my brethren undertooke for me for without my forbearing to print and preach they would not have yeelded to the Agreement that I might not be singular and goe against the Judgement of all my brethren though my Judgement was against the promise of silence upon what I evidently foresaw would follow upon it the advantage they would make by it to encrease a party and that I might not be guilty of hindering the common ends held out I did totally both in preaching and printing decline all those points of difference and notwithstanding I heard and knew that some of their side preached contrary to the agreement yet all that time untill it was openly declared in a full Assembly the agreement was broken and I declared I would be at freedome and some of them said the like I preached not upon those points whereas in this time many of their way preached for their way both in Citie and Countrey and some who by name were spoken of at the agreement as Mr P. and M. W. besides bookes were printed too in that interim for their way as M. Cottons answere to M. Ball about Formes of Prayer and his Church Catechisme c. In a word in the whole carriage of that businesse they were too hard for us by their policie and subtilty for whereas a mutuall silence was agreed upon both in preaching c. and that out of hand they should bring in a Narrative of their opinions wherein they differed from us and then should joyne with us in preaching against the Brownists and Anabaptists they never brought in their Narrative till this day and though at full meetings of the Ministers they have been spoken unto and some Ministers have been sent from the Company to some or one of them and the Narrative was promised at such a time and then at such a time yet it was never performed and whereas the agreement in writing for our side was left in M. Calamies hand M. Nye comes after some time to M. Calamy and pretends some reasons for to borrow it for a while but after he had it he carries it away into Yorkshire that so upon occasions of complaints of the breach of the agreement when we would have consulted with that that was gone and M. Nye keepes it till this day and having been moved to restore it his answer is it is at Hull amongst other papers 4. And above all the due respect we have had to the peaceable and orderly Reformation of this Church and State the hopefull expectation we have been entertained with of an happy latitude and agreement by meanes of this Assembly and the wisdome of this Parliament Strong motives indeed peaceable and orderly Reformation with a hopefull expectation of an happy latitude and agreement powerfull and effectuall to have commanded peaceable and orderly men but though you make these grounds above all the rest to have carried weight yet they could no more prevaile with you then the forenamed as I have fully proved and whether you have had such due respect to the peaceable and orderly Reformation of this Church and State let what followes speake Is it peaceable and orderly in a time when the Magistrate makes it his maine worke to reforme and cals so many godly learned Ministers from all parts to consult with to settle the Church and Government according to the Word of God for particular private men to gather Churches and to adde to them daily without and against the consent of the Magistrate yea against the instant and continuall advices and conjurements of many honourable wise and godly Personages of both Houses of Parliament to forbeare what might any way be like to occasion or augment this unhappy difference now no one thing could hardly more occasion or augment the differences then this of gathering Churches according to your way one or two out of this godly Ministers Parish one or two out of this Family the wife from the husband against his consent c Againe is it peaceable and orderly for these gathered Churches to meet on the Sabbath day in private houses at the times of the publique Assemblies whereby great tumults and combustions have been and may be occasioned in the streets And is it a due respect to peaceable and orderly Reformation to preach publiquely upon points in difference and for a Toleration of divers Sects and opinions And lastly is that a due respect to the peaceable and orderly Reformation of this Church and Siâ—…te to see in Churches where you and other Ministers of your way have preached great tumults and disorders committed by your followers against the use of any part of the Lyturgie and yet never to reprove them for it nor to teach them to expect and wait till the Parliament would settle things which of you have preached against the tumults in Churches or the Lay-preaching or the gathering of Churches by the people We have had a sprinkling of a little Court holy-water for a colour
unlesse they be Church members with many more all slat against the Primitive patterns hath ever been from first to last a fountaine of evill and a root of bitternesse of many bitter divisions and separations amongst themselves of manifold errors and other mischiefes in those Churches and places where they lived God having alwayes witnesses against it and never blessing it with peace and truth I shall not need to relate the histories of the Anaptists the highest forme of Independencie and the Church way what evils they fell into and the mischiefes they brought upon Germanie and how God cursed and scattered them As for the Brownists the middle forme of Independencie the Apologists themselves confesse they had fatall miscarriages and shipwracks And I could tell a sad storie but that it would be now too long even from Bolton and Browne the first and prime leaders down to the present Brownists at Amsterdam of the Apostasies Heresies Separations and bitter divisions with the untimely fearefull ends which have fallen out amongst them but in respect my booke so much exceeds the proportion intended I shall reserve that for a more distinct handling And for the semi-Brownists and Independents so cal'd by way of distinction they have not been free The Churches of the Apologists have had their bitter divisions and fearefull miscarriages as the Reader may remember in these pages of this present Answer pag. 35 36 37 142 143 144. with some erroneous conceits fallen into and preached in one of their Churches So in the Churches of New-England there have been so many errors differences and evils that I beleeve had we but a true impartiall storie of New-England for the first seven or eight yeares after they were come to any number we should have the strangest storie next that of the Anabaptists and old Brownists one of them in the world in a word they were brought by their Independencie and Church principles next dore to ruine both spirituall and temporall the sad experience of which hath made them wheele about of later yeeres towards Presbyteriall government and in stead of that not being yet formally come to it to take aliquid analogum in the first constituting of Churches making Ministers c. which at first they did not and to give more power to Classes and Synods then they did many yeares agoe as by comparing some Letters from thence in those times written by Ministers over into England and Mr Cottons late booke will be evident In a word he that will observe it shall find the end of Independencie infinite schismes separations errors inconstancie and uncertainty in judgement yea barbarisme and confusion and the Toleration of it by this State would be the opening of a sloud-gate to many other errors and evills besides what evill is in that being a way all along wherein it â—…iffers from the reformed Churches either beside or against the word of God And should the Parliament which God forbid and I hope is farre from their thoughts give the Independents a Toleration of their way and Churches they should give they know noâ—… what having never yet spoken out all that they hold this Apologie containing but a little part of their way besides taking in their second great principle page 10. Apolog of not making their present judgement and practise a binding law for the future the Parliament may grant grosse Brownisme Anabaptisme within a short time many falling off according their principles of new light to cast off communion with their own Churches as some of Mr Sympsons have done and let it be but remembred what I now write whether some of the Apologists if they come not in and joyne with the reformed Churches doe not within a few yeeres goe a great way further I think had they staid together in Holland till this time without any hopes of a Toleration here some of them had gone farre by this time of day Anointing with oyle was begun to be brought in Hymnes had been moved for in one of their Churches and if I may beleeve the report of a religious Person in an open company affirming it againe and againe when I doubted it that a member of the Church of Aâ—…nheim who was also named to me related that had they staid there a little longer the ordinance of Hymnes had been practised amongst them one being chosen and agreed upon by the Church to exercise that ordinance And I am able to demonstrate it that the Apologists keeping but to their principles besides the principle of a Reserve must yet goe a great way further and supposing the Parliament should make a proposition to them Wee will grant you this and this and so which be the present principlâ—…s you hold forth but if you bring in any thing more or goe farther then your Churches shall be dessolved and we will recall what we granted you because we will be sure to know what we allow in matters of Religion be at a certaintie for that I doe not thinke the Apologists would accept of a Toleration upon those tearmes and such a condition The beginnings of errors commonly are most modest but let alone some time they exceed all bounds how farre most of the Arminians proceeded beyond what Arminius held or themselves at first the learned books of many Divines and experience showes and if a Toleration were granted to the Apologists and all those of their communion to exercise their consciences I feare before a yeere went about many would turne Anabaptists c. but I desire rather to pray against a toleration then to prophecie of the evill of it But supposing the best that can be that the State had an Assurance the Apologists and their Churches would not goe one step further then now they hold the Toleration should not be made use of to any further errors yet the Parliament should not allow it unlesse they would grant a Toleratiod of Brownisme and if Brownisme be a bitter error and way then the way of the Apologists is not very sweet their way being but Browns younger brother agreeing with the Brownists in the nature and definition of the visible Church in the Independent power of a particular Congregation in the way of making Officers in the way of their ordinancâ—…s as Prophesying in the way of Forms of Prayer in the Sacraments none to be admitted but Church members cum multis alijs and I desire the Apologists to give any materiall difference however their grounds are different and they doe not goe so farre in consequences nor are not so grosse between their Churches and the Brownists As for that of the power of the people and the Officers in giving the power to the Officers but the Brownists to the people I answer however the Apologists differ in that point from the Brownists in words phrases methods and give us many fine words and flattering similitudes going about yet the truth is they differ not in substance in their practise but all comes to one end and
that most supreame namely to be in all things guided by the perfect will of God enacted as the most sacred law of all other in the midst of all other laws and Canons Ecclesiasticall in Christian States and Churches throughout the world This is a dangerous principle to goe by in the Church of God excellent for unstable men and wanton wits fitted for libertins and running heads that love no fixed nor setled government and serves well to the humour of a few particular persons but pernitious and sad for Nationall Churches and Kingdomes a reserve indeed and a good back doore to go out at from Brownisme to Anabaptisme and from Anabaptisme to Sebaptisme and from thence to Famialisme and Socinianisme It is a ready prepared way for those that would draw men into errours under the pretence of new light to worke upon and so to lead men from one errour to another till there be no end Which kind of principle of uncertainty in matters of religion the Remonstrants did hold forth in those sad times of the troubles of the Churches in the Netherlands that so they might overturne all formes and harmonies whereby the Churches both within themselves and one towards another might be setled and associated that was one of the scepticall rules of the Arminians dies diem docet But this principle of yours so carried all along in your resolutions seemes to crosse that first principle of the Scriptures the supreame rule and perfect for Church government for in effect it is as much as to hold that the government and way of the Church visible is so uncertaine and doubtfull as that little or none may be positively laid downe and concluded as Iure Divino Now according to this second principle and profession of yours why doe you make such outeries and tragedies in the Church forsaking all Churches for you know not what even for that which you made open and constant professions upon all occasions you would not be bound to and pray how doth this agree with your principle of Church government that it is in all particulars perpetuall and unchangeable whenas you will be changing it so often But certainely when you first fell to your Church-way and took up this principle you were not resolved what way to follow but thought that in some yeares by adding now and then and forsaking this and the other you might attaine to something in the end But let me aske you ought men in the matters of Religion and in things of the Kingdome of Christ to be Scepticks and so irresolved or ought not men to be perswaded in their consciences But I hope the Parliament will observe this great principle you were first acted by and still are in all your Church-way and will see how dangerous the tolerating of your way will be for though you should for present hold nothing much different from the established rule yet being allowed what may you not come to according to this principle how shall any State be sure of you long what you will hold What if you should bring in community of goods baptizing in rivers the holy Kisse into your Assemblies at the beginning and ending of your Ordinances annointing sick persons with oyle it is but according to your principle And we see you make so much of this principle and are so in love with it that you wish it next to your first principle enacted as the most sacred Law of all other to live and walke by it in Christian States and Churches throughout the world and I am perswaded if you would speake out you wish it instead of all other Laws and Canons 〈◊〉 You are not content your selves to be Scepticks and loose in the government of the visible Church but you would have all others to be liâ—… unto you not to make their present judgement and practise a binding law for the future but to make continuall professions upon all occasions of altering But let us consider what may be the reasons of such a passionate desire that this principle were enacted in all Churches I conceive these following 1. That others changing and altering as well as you the imputation of inconstancy and lightnesse might not stick upon you 2. That so you might gaiâ—… more to your way and Church by possessing them with this principle having this advantage to worke upon and this engine to draw the people with There is nothing you have concluded on but you are free and at choice still to take what seemes most probable to you whereas if men be set downe and resolved they are not so apt to change 3. That so you might not as you pretend block up the way to further light but keep alive that principle of New light and New truths and that men must not content themselves with old truths and the old light but they must seeke out after New light whereas establishment and setling of points upon serious debates and disputes both in points of doctrine with the fundamentals and substantials of discipline as the truths of God and the way for men to walke in upon such Scriptures and reasons will shut out such search as you conceive but this is a mistake to imagine that if any evident light from Scripture should come in afterwards especially considering that reformed Churches in their confessions and Articles hold that particular Churches may erre and may receive increase of knowledge and for matters of Discipline declare particularly that in the accessaries accidentals circumstantials Churches have liberty to change upon inconveniences and different occasions that may arise that they are ever the further off from it But this principle of irresolution and uncertainty in matters of Religion upon the ground of New light and New truths as it is commonly laid downe and drunke in now by men of the Church-way makes men unsatisfied restlesse doubtfull in their present practise and upon searching when they can find none the Devill and their own corruptions will make some and brings them old errors for New truths and men being possest by some that principles are to be new studied and that there are New truths and New light never known before Satan is not wanting to raise up one or other to vent errors under those notions as we see at this day in the Antinomians and the Anabaptists their great argument wherby they take so many being that of New light and New truths which God hath revealed in these times 4. I hope this principle so rooted in you and your frailty in the former way of conformity may be a reserve for you to come off from Independencie to Presbyterie upon the debates of the Assembly and from your Church-way to the way of the reformed Churches which I heartily pray may be the fruit of this principle so openly and constantly profest and am not wholly out of hope especially of some of you Thirdly We are able to hold forth this true and just Apologie unto the world That in the
also that the rules which we gave up our judgements unto to judge those we received in amongst us by were of that latitude as would take in any member of Christ the meanest in whom there may be supposed to be the least of Christ and indeed such and no other at all the godly in this kingdome carry in their bosomes to judge others by We tooke measure of no mans holinesse by his opinion whether concurring with us or adverse unto us And Churches made up of such we were sure no Protestant could but approve of as touching the members of it to be a true Church with which communion might be held And having answered generally I come now to the particulars brought to make this third principle good and shall shew how little there is in them to make good that they are brought for To your first instance of chusing the better part and to be sure receiving in none for members of Churches but such as all Churches in the world would by the ballance of the Sanctuarie acknowledge faithfull 1. To speake nothing now of that how in Churches there may be a receiving to some of the ordinances and so to be under the care of the Ministers a receiving of others that is there may be members to a part and there are members as to all the ordinances and so according to the first there may be a promiscuous receiving and mixture for which I can give good reasons and instances as in children catechumenists but must not handle at large every point now which your Narration hints aâ—… 2. In your admission of members you chose not the better part nor the safer To goe on the hand of charitie and love is the better part and safer hand which charitie if you looke into the 1 Cor. 13. hopes the best thinkes no evill c. And a man had better receive some of whom there may be some doubt and feare then discourage and refuse any of Christ little ones which both your principle and practise hath done abundantly in New-England and in England But here in your Narration you deale fallaciously in stating the question For the question is not about receiving in none but such as all Churches in the world would acknowledge faithfull but about receiving in all and refusing none whom the Churches had no reason but to acknowledge faithfull For according to your words laid downe and as you would carry it to deceive the Reader with of receiving none but such as all Churches would acknowledge faithfull you might receive in but a few of high forme Christians whom also all the Churches in the world would not as some hold the ballance acknowledge to be faithfull and so you might receive in but a very few And it is evident by your practise that many whom all the Reformed Churches hold fit to be received having a competent knowledge of God Christ and themselves and live free from all scandalous and grosse sins and outwardly practise duties both to God and man even multitudes of these you will not admit nor doe not into your Churches And as to that just and true profession you are able to make That the rules you gave up your judgements unto to judge those you received in amongst you by were of that latitude to take in any member of Christ c. I must tell you this is like some of your just and true professions before namely unjust and untrue this is neither the first nor the last unjust and untrue profession in your Narration and I shall make it good both by your practises by some rules laid down by some of your selves Mr Goodwins letter in answer to Mr Iohn Goodwin grants they require of men to admission into their Churches that they know what belongs to Church-fellowship and doe acknowledge the same and approve thereof with other things of that nature now whether this be a rule of that latitude that will take in any member of Christ the meanest in whom there may be supposed to be the least of Christ and indeed such and no other as all the godly in this kingdome carry in their bosomes to judge others by I appeale to your owne consciences That holy Martyr Bradford with many more not only the least but great starres in the firmament of the Church never knew nor dreamt of what belong'd to your Church-fellowship and I am confident that M. Goodwin M. Bridge my selfe with many others many yeares after wee were members of Christ and conversed together in Cambridge as Saints yet understood not what belonged to this Church-covenant and Church-fellowship and this is such a rule that multitudes of the godly in this kingdome carry not in their bosomes to judge others by nor would not themselves be judged by nor never heard of such things till your times And if your rules were of such a latitude as would take in any members of Christ the meanest whence came it to passe that in New-England so many men in whom the godly have presumed to be something of Christ and who are you to judge the contrarie have not yet been admitted and amongst many other instances that might be given in your owne Churches I will name one Mistris Symonds a modest humble woman many years well reputed of in England of godly Parents wife to a godly Minister who though her husband was received a member of M. Sympsons Church and then chosen the Pastour yet his wife could not be received into the Church along time and whether yet she be I know not I have been told also from one who lived in those parts that after M. Sympson upon rending from M. Bridge had set up a new Church one who was upon his tryall for admission into M. Sympsons Church was openly asked by a prime man who had a hand in that rent what his judgement was of the Brethrens libertie to prophecie and if the man had not been right in that point it might have hazarded his Membership And that the Reader may not be abused nor amused with such kind of passages but that it may appeare what ever here you say you have other rules and require other things of men to communion with you pray satisfie us What was the reason and what is the matter that when M. Iohn Goodwin fell to your principles and way so many godly persons of his owne Parish could not be received in by him as Church-members nor accounted so without yeelding to some rules and conditions which they being members of Christ and some of them nâ—…ne of the meanest could not condescend unto As to that you say You tooke measure of no mans holinesse by his opinion whether concurring with you or adverse unto you I appeale to your consciences if my selfe or some others whom you have accounted godly should have declared their opinions adverse to your Church-covenant and other of your Church principles and yet being in Holland should have desired for the time to have been
Churches allow particular Congregations such an entire and compleate power to be exercised by the Elders within themselves and wherein not such a particular Narration would have carried in the face of it some ground for the defference of their practise and allowance might have served to have pointed out the differences between your way and theirs But secondly As you relate the way and discipline of the reformed Churches it sounds somewhat harsh and strange that their practise should be one way and their judgements another their practise to governe each particular Congregation by a combined Presbyterie of the Elders of severall Congregations united in one for government and yet in their judgements to allow especially in some cases a particular Congregation and entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within it selfe Doe they practise one way and allow another way or doe they hold both wayes the wayes of God or what is it you meane in this Narration of those Churches or can it be meant in the same sense and acception to practise one thing and yet allow another or will you make the lesser matters practised in their particular Churches by their own Elders to be the same with some cases wherein they allow particular Congregations an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within themselves Now the latter namely in some cases cannot be meant for then this last part is no more then the first neither can your words of an entire compleate power of jurisdiction in the particular Congregations be meant of smaller matters but of the greatest matters in some cases You shall doe well in your reply to english these lines about the difference of the reformed Churches practises in greater matters and their different judgements in some cases and shew us in what sense they meane it and whether it can be properly and truly alledged for your case of entire and compleate power in your Congregations Thirdly This which you here relate of the reformed Churches practise and allowance is fallaciously set downe and for your own advantage meerely to make out this third principle that you still chose to practise safely namely what the reformed Churches allowed and acknowledged warrantable onely they superadded Presbyteriall combinations whereas the reformed Churches doe not as you well know in the case and question controverted between them and you allow particular Congregations in a Kingdome and nation conceiving the reformed Religion to have an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within themselves what may be in some of their books in extraordinary or speciall cases where there is but one particular Congregation in a Countrey or the like that is nothing to the point in hand it being laid for a common ground by them all that every particular Church in a Nation or Kingdom is not to be left to it selfe but that there is a necessity of a common nationall government to preserve all the Churches in unity and peace And to cleare the reformed Churches of France Holland Scotland from what you say they allow I doe not find in their books of discipline and platformes of Church government by which we must judge of their judgements nor in their practises that they doe allow an entire and compleate power to be exercised by the Elders of every Congregation alone either in the making or ordaining of Ministers or in deposing their Ministers or in drawing up a forme of doctrine worship and discipline for themselves they allow power of admonition suspension from the Lords Supper and of taking up lesser differences by the particular Eldership and if I forget not the Churches of France only practise excommunication by the Elders in particular Congregations without carrying it at first higher but then if we consider that in those Churches of France their Elderships goe upon certaine fixed rules in there excommunications laid down in their books of discipline who if they proceed otherwise are liable to censure themselves and their being appeales to Synods and Assemblies and all being carried in reference and dependance to Assemblies the case is very different now if the Churches of your way and communion in old England and in New would yeeld to have a government fixt and setled by Synods and Assemblies establisht also by the Magistrates upon which Rules and Orders they should proceed in the way of making Ministers and that such errors in doctrine and such evill manners ought to be the subject of excommunication and then agree upon appeales to Synods and Assemblies then there would be lesse dangâ—…r in such an entire and compleate power in particular Congregations To the second particular under this first head namely what some of the old non-conformists grant placing the power of excommunication in the Eldership of each particular Church untill they doe miscarry and then indeed subjâ—…cting them to Presbytâ—…riall and Provinciall Assemblies and that it could not be infallibly prooved that any of the Churches recorded in the new Testament were so numerous as necessarily to exceed the limits of one particular Congregatïon And that both the Ministers of the reformed Churches and our non-conformists all granted that there should be severall Elders in every Congregation who had power over them in the Lord I answer as followes For Mr Cartwright you not quoting which of his books you have reference to and so not knowing which to turne to to find out what you assert of him I shall not deny it but as for Mr Baynes Diocesans Tryall which is the only booke I ever heard of wherein he handles these points he doth in the third question give the Ecclesiasticall power and the exercise of it to a united multitude of Presbyters in which booke howsoever as intending his booke against Diocesan Bishops and Diocesan Churches to whom all Presbyters and Churches stand in subjection and subordination he pleads against them for the power of the particular Elders in the severall Congregations yet as against the reformed Churches practise namely of a Presbyteriall Church consisting of many particular Congregations and ruled by the Elders of severall Congregations combined he pleadeth not but expressely in answer made to those two objections from the Churches and Elders where there is a co-ordination and a communiâ—…y in government as in the Low Countries and at Géneva he grants the thing contended for against your Congregationall way even before miscarrying and shewes thâ—… great difference between the Diocesan government and the Presbyteriall in severall particulars and answers your objections which you commonly make of a forraigne extrinsicall power And for your better satisfaction reade and compare together the passages in these pages of Mr Baynes Diocesans Tryall page 21 page 11. What is meant by a Diocesan Church and in the 12th page two first conclusions agreed in and in the 16th page And for the non-conformists in their writings against the Episcopall government and Diocesan Churches though they put the Bishops their adversaries all they could to it to make them proove
those Congregations in all weighty matters and greater cases that fall out those precepts of obey your Elders and them that are over you reach to all the Elders as well as to those that particularly and ordinarily preach to them and however it is true such places are especially understood of them yet not of them only and alone as excluding others as your argument carried it but including others who are over them too And to answer you by your own instance given of servants obey your own governours as by vertue of that text particular servants are to obey their own Masters so by the same text each particular servant and all of them together of such a Company and Hall in the things and rules of their calling for the publike good of that Societie they are to obey and be subject to the whole Company namely the particular masters of other servants as to their own masters yea and to submit to the common Orders and good Rules of such a Hall and Corporation though their particular Masters doe not vote for but against them 3. Those Rulers who are of the Presbytery are not forraigne nor extrinsicall to the Congregations but intrinsicall and naturall as well as their particular Elders so that another without themselves doth not beare rule over them but all of them together by common consent doe rule every one which is a most mild and free forme of Church government for the proofe of which I shall not enlarge but referre you for satisfaction to what is said to this point both by the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland and by some Churches from beyond the seas in their Letters upon occasion of your Apologie 4. It is a fallacious way of reasoning from the oeconomicall relations and government of husbands over wives and fathers over children and masters over servants and their subjection and obedience to husbands c. unto the Ecclesiasticall and Politicall because it is not to speake ad idem for in each of these the way of government is different for instance in those oeconomicall relations a woman can have but one husband one man can be but her husband and one man a father and the wife and child cannot Pelinquish them diâ—…avow them though very bad nor deny those duties they owe them in those relations though censured by the Church but they are to obey them which yet holds not in the members of a particular Congregation to Elders and Ministers that are unworthy and excommunicated that the members must be subject to them The Royalists that argue so from that subjection and obedience which children owe their fathers to subjects subjection and obedience to Princes and the Hierarchicall men that argue from what children owe to natural parents though wicked and ungodly to what the people owe to wicked ministers are answered at large and you know what Mr Robinson and many of your way say to that Now the same will serve to answer your comparisons that the places hold not alike between the people and the Elders and the wives and their husbands Mr Baynes answers in the last page of his Diocesans Tryall that which is objected touching Pastors and Fathers That the similitude holds not in all things parents and sheapheards are absolutely parents and sheapheards be they good or evill but spirituall parents are no longer so then they doe accordingly behave themselves 5. The very instances you give of wives obey your own husbands and servants your own governours doth not therefore only tye them to civill subjection and obedience to husbands and Masters exempting them from subjection to any others but they are subject to the Magistrates in the Common-wealth and to common-Lawes notwithstanding so neither doth the Scriptures obey your Elders c. supposing the full latitude of those Scriptures were of the Elders of particular Congregations forbid or exempt men from that Ecclesiasticall subjection and obedience which concernes them as they stand in relation to the community To the third Reason hinted for your selves and against the reformed Churches that the Elders of other Congregations should have power and rule over Churches which they doe not teach and feed ordinarily by vertue of those forementioned precepts was to you a question c. I answer Suppose three or foure Congregations in one great Towne should have Ministers in common to teach and feed them ordinarily as in Holland would you in such a case yeeld to a Presbyteriall combination if you say you would then the case is determined for us and thus I judge it was in the Acts of the Apostles in Primitive Churches but if you answer you would not yeeld to such a classicall government then I reply 't is not for want of such Ministers teaching you and feeding ordinarily that you will not obey but upon some other ground and then this argument is lost Secondly I answer your ruling Elders doe not feed nor teach you ordinarily but only governe you and yet by vertue of those forementioned precepts you obey them and are subject to them so that this is no good argument against the lawfulnesse of having power and authority over those whom men teach not ordinarily for then what becomes of the Ruling Elders in the Church who are neither Pastors nor Teachers To the fourth Reason drawn from Corporations who have the power and priviledge of life and death within themselves which kind of power you would have I answer you cannot frame a good argunment from Corporations and civill power to bodies Ecclesiasticall and spirituall power and I might give you the many differences alledged by your selves between civill power and Ecclesiasticall and the different manner of dispensation but I must not enlarge here only referre you for this to Mr Robinson Mr Burroughs and Dr Ames 2. Corporations goe according to the Lawes of the Land and to their Charters agreed upon and made in Parliaments they make not themselves a Corporation nor goe not according to private rules and orders to passe sentence of death c. but are ruled though they have Officers as Major and Aldermen by the Laws of the Land and so going they may more safely have a power within themselves but your particular Congregations set up your selves without leave of Magistrates or Ministers not proceeding upon common rules of government in sentences of Excommunication c. agreed by Synods but only upon your own wills and private rules which you have fancied are laid down in Scripture 3. Corporations though they judge their members and passe sentence of life and death within themselves yet sometimes nay often in greater cases and offences their inhabitants are tried and sentences passed upon them in other Courts of Justice and that when they would proceed against them yet the matter is carried higher to be tried If you would grant this in the Corporations to your Congregations that Assemblies and Synods might judge and passe sentence upon your members as oft
which is not your case denying authoritative power but if you say this text is meant secondarily of all Churches and Christians though they have not authoritative power I grant it but then it is in wayes suitable which the word of God gives warrant and allowance for as in reproving mourning for the sin c. which must be shewne in some other Scriptures For else the Presbyterians may pretend by vertue of this text that they ought not to be partaker of other mens sins that they may censure depose excommunicate members of other Churches who are suffered to goe on in sin better then you can draw from this text that you may call not only particular members but whole Churches to an account examine them and pronounce that heavy sentence of non-communion against them But in a word bretheren let me tell you if such generall texts as these that may be applied to any course and way conceived by men in their own braines to hinder sin and reduce from offences will serve turne for Church government and for remedies to reduce Churches then we can give you besides your own two texts quoted here for your principle of submission of Churches and non-communion many other such and more probable too for the authoritative power of Presbyteries and Sinods as that in 1 Cor. 14. 22. And the spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets but we are not so hard put to it there being particular instances and examples if the nature of an Answer to such a Narration would permit me to insist at large that proove the points in difference namely of acts of power exercised by Churches in common as in elections determinations and impositions upon differences and controversies as Acts 15. 2. 4 6 7 13 22 23 24 28 29. Acts 16. 4 5. 2 Corinih 8. 18 19. But let the indifferent reader judge by this which hath been said whether the reformed Churches or the Independent practise most safely there being a ground as your selves confesse for the sentence of excommunication such a sentence you acknowledge in particular Churches and practise it and such a sentence hath been decreed and past upon members of Churches by those who were not members of those Churches as the Scriptures are cleare for it 1 Tim. 1. 19 20. But on the other hand it is not granted that the Scriptures give any ground of pronouncing the sentence of non-communion against whole Churches or doe allow any such practise of declarations and protestations unto all Churches against whole Churches this I utterly deny and your Scriptures prove them not and I wonder how you dare call it the command of Christ and the way of Christ as you doe in page 18 19. And brethren besides that the Scriptures give neither precept nor example for your way of non-communion consider whether the Scriptures give not grounds rather to the contrary namely against a particular Churches withdrawing and renouncing all Christian communion with whole Churches upon an errour and miscarriage for let me aske you may not such a Church or Churches be true Churches for all this continue in their offices upon mistaken partiality and notwithstanding all the light a particular Church can give them be unsatisfied now if a particular man may not separate nor withdraw Christian communion from a true Church though upon his counsell and advise she redresse not but 't is a schisme then for one Church upon counsell and advice given to more Churches though not taken to separate formally from many Churches by pronouncing that heavy sentence of withdrawing and renouncing all Christian communion cannot be justified Paul did not renounce nor cast-off Churches for many things amisse though upon his counsell they were not mended as appeares in the Church of Corinth that had been twice admonished 2 Cor. 13. 1 2. and â—…t repented not and now Paul doth it the third time and yet refusing Pauls counsell and power being so infallible and authoritative deserved more the sentence of non-communion then the often rejecting the counsell and power of any particular Church can doe But I will answer you in your own language that your sacred and undoubted principles and supreame laws of submission of Churches and of the power of Churches offended to pronounce the heavy sentence of non-communion against the Churches offending and of Declarations and Protestations to all other Churches of Christ that they might doe the like with your own practise exprest in the 20 and 21. page are to me Apocriphâ—… and judge it to be an additament which therefore rests on you who allow the sentence of excommunication to make evident and demonstrate that of non-communion Protestations Declarations c. And thus it often falls out whilst men will oppose that which hath long been received in the Church of God upon pretence of the want of Scripture grounds and bring in new wayes they practise novelties upon lesse ground and foundation from Scriptures then they rejected the old as is to be seen in this instance 2. As these principles of yourâ—… have no footing in Scripture so it will appeare they are no sufficient remedies for miscarriages and evills which fall out in particular Churches by reason of their compleate and entire power within themselves first because there are more acts of power then your principle of submission of Churches and the instances you give upon it reach unto so that granting all you say of it yet it would but reach to that particular case or some such like cases but would be no way sufficient either for preventing or remedying other evills and mischiefs which dâ—…e and would arise upon a Congregationall government thus entire within it selfe So that here lies the fallacy in the question between you and the reformed Churches in point of government you speake to some points of government but not to all and instead of laying down principles that should answer all cases they only serve but to some and so your principles that should be simpliciter are only secundum quid For in the government of the Church there are many other acts of power as of making and ordaining Ministers of receiving in Members of agreeing upon a government doctrine and worship c. which this full compleat entire power of particular Congregations takes upon them to doe of which many great mischiefes doe arise and are like errours in the first concoction which your principle of submission of Churches reacheth not unto nor doth not help But secondly besides this the principle of submission of Churches that miscarry unto the other Churches offended with that practise of Churches finally offended to denounce such a senâ—…ence of Non-communion doth not answer the case alleadged in heresies schisme or persons injured nor is not a sufficient remedie like that of combination of Elders and for the making good of that I shall examine the way and course prescribed by you in your principles here laid downe of Submission Non-communion Declarations and Protestations and
right and as Magistrates have no power over Family-government to appoint whom I shall admit into my Family c. much lesse have they power over Christs Family this union of a Church is a spirituall right which is transcendently out of the sphere of the Magistrates authoritie and the Apostles taught the Saints to doe it without asking leave of the Magistrates yea not to for sake it though the Magistrates forbad it Heb. 10. 25. Now I beleeve you cannot show me any principle in Presbyteriall Government nor quote me the judgement of any Presbyterian that cuts short the power of the Orthodox Protestant Magistrate about Congregations and Assemblies as this doth 4. The Presbyterians doe grant the Magistrate a power about the publick exercise of the Ministerie that 't is so farre subject to the direction of the Magistrate that without his approbative authoritie or confirming authoritie or his toleration of it it ought not by the Church to be publikely begun in his territories nor practised Apollonius of Zeland who writ an answer to Vedellius by the command of the Waâ—…achrian Classis was a great Presbyterian and in that answer must needs show it upon occasion of Vedelius giving so much to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things yet he grants the Magistrate this power about the exercise of the Ministerie Now whether your principles allow this to the Magistrate let your practises speake about your making Ministers and exercising of it as you doe 5. The Presbyterians grant to the Magistrates a power in private meetings as well as in publicke Churches over exercises there as well as those in the publick places So Voetius We reject that noveltie of the Remonstrants that the Magistrate hath no power in private meetings but onely in publike Temples Now whether you allow the Magistrates a power concerning your private meetings or onely over the publike meetings or whether you doe not with the Arminians make the ground of this power in the Magistrate the granting of a publike meeting-place I desire to be satisfied from you But by all this the Reader may see in these particulars you doe not give more power to the Magistrate for the Presbyterians give what you give and not onely so but they give that which you denie and so give more then you But Brethren wherein and in what doe you give more to the Magistrates power then the Presbyterians Had you exprest wherein the Presbyterians give too little to the Magistrates power and in what their principles are defective and wherein you give more you had dealt fairely and ingeniously and a man might have knowne where to have had you and how to have answered you but to accuse thus in the generall and not to signifie the crime is not just but as you do throughout your Apologie under the figge-leaves of darke doubtfull generall speeches cover your opinions least your nakednesse should appeare so in this place but not to let you goe away thus but that I may drive you out of your holes and thickets and divest you of your coverings and that I may a little take off the Odium and suspition that Presbyteriall Government may lie under amongst many who know not their principles by reason of this passage of yours The Magistrates power to which we give as much and as we thinke more then the principles of the Presbyteriall government will suffer them to yeeld I will propound some questions to you to draw out what you hold about the power of the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things and to give some further light for the present of the Presbyterian principles concerning the power of Magistrates referving the particular laying downe what the Presbyterians give to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things and what not till my Rejoynder shall come out to your Replie 1. Whether the power of the Magistrate about Ecclesiasticall things be a power extrinsecall objective coercive indirect mediate accidentall and consequent or spirituall intrinsecall formall proper and antecedent Now concerning the first the Presbyterians give as much to the Magistrate as you nay more as hath been partly shewed alreadie but for the other the spirituall intrinsecall formall c. If you ascribe that to the Magistrate as I thinke you doe not nor your principles do not yeeld it unlesse according to your second great principle laid downe in the 10. and 11. page you are since the Assembly to please the Parliament the more as you may imagine come off from your former judgement and practise I doe referre you for satisfaction to the three most learned select Disputations of Voetius and unto Waâ—…us excellent answer to the tractate of Uttengobardus so strong that the Authour could never reply againe though in a booke published he promised to doe it and unto Apollonius learned answer to Vedelius Dissertation 2. I aske of you whether the civill power doth containe the Ecclesiasticall formally and eminently so as that power can give and produce the other or whether there is an intrinsecall dependance of the Ecclesiasticall upon the Politicall in their nature forme and exercise of them or whether there doth not reside in the Church all Ecclesiasticall power absolutely necessarie to the building up of the Kingdome of Christ and salvation of men even when the Magistrate is not of the Church 3. I aske of you whether in writing this passage of your Apologie you considered and remembred all those differences and distinctions given by so many excellent Divines as Iunius Zanchius Amesius c. concerning those two powers Civill and Ecclesiasticall and their Administration and in particular amongst the rest that difference taken from their matter and the subject wherein they make the subject of politicall administration to be humane things and matters but of Ecclesiasticall to be divine and sacred and if so whether doe not Presbyterians according to those differences and distinctions which distinctions are acknowledged also by your selves as by M. Robinson and by some of you in your printed bookes as I remember give the Magistrate that power in Ecclesiasticals which is given him in the word of God 4. Considering all Ecclesiasticall power and right is commonly by Divines reduced to a three-fold head namely potestas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which of these powers doe you give more to the Magistrates then the Presbyterians or in all of them doe you give more or doe you not For the present that power you seem to give the Magistrate and intimate it that you give more then the Presâ—…eriall principles allow as may be gathered from the following words in p. 19. from those words in p. 17. The Magistrates interposing a power of an other nature unto which we upon his particular coguizance and examination of such causes profes ever to submit and also to be most willing to have recourse unto must fall under the last head of the power of judging and determining in matters Ecclesiastical and that upon
to their Ministers and Pastours with other such like 8. But in Ecclesiasticall matters and differences upon the Magistrates interposing his power what is it you will submit unto and what will you allow him to doe And what is that power you will give him in backing the sentence of Non-communion upon his judgement of the cause and how farre and in what will you obey him that so we may understand how this Civill power is intended by you for a remedie and helpe in Churches and betweene Churches For instance will you submit not to gather Churches nor set up Assemblies withoâ—…â—…is leave and upon complaints of the many mischiefes and differences occasioned thereupon will you upon his hearing both sides and judging that those who are gathered shall be dissolved dissolve them and not meet in those wayes any more Will you upon some members complaining to the Magistrate of some Minister or Ministers in their Church for preaching erroneous and unprofitable doctrine meere novelties subtilties and the Magistrate upon particular cognizance and examination of such causes judging that he shall preach no more will the Minister forbeare upon it or the Church to heare him in case the Minister would not yeeld will the Church now goe chuse a new and Orthodox Minister upon it or in case a member or more be unjustly excommunicated and they complaine to the Magistrate who calling the Church to account and hearing both sides shall judge on the Complaiants side and now order the Church to absolve him and order them to confesse their sinne publikely and appoint them to keepe a day of humiliation for it and order them to give him such a summe of mony for the wrong trouble and losse of his time in following the businesse against them will the Church now submit to doe all this yea or no What say you to these and the like cases Now I aske you this in the close because you pretend a great deale of submission to the Magistrate and to give him much power which though you did grant yet for the many reasons and grounds alreadie specified this would not countervaile the way of the Presbyterians in their spirituall censures by Presbyters and Synods whether you clearely and plainly allow this to the Magistrate because I finde in Manuscripts and heare that in Sermons by men of your Church-way the contrarie is publikely preacht and held as for example in that Treatise about a Church which goes under one of your names there is this passage with more to that purpose The Saints need not expect their power or leave for to gather together so as without it such a combination is unlawfull nor should they forbeare it out of conscience of the Magistrates prohibition indeed if the Magistrate should force or compell them to forbeare or persecute them they may forbeare actuall assembling Act. 8. 1. not because the Magistrate forbids it but in mercie to themselves And indeed about a Church Christian Magistrates have no more power then Heathen Magistrates had So that this is spoken by you where Magistrates are Christian and where Churches are already setled And adde to this that M. S. in his Reply in defence of your Apologie is against coercive and coactive power in matters of Religion and that you all hold a toleration and that the Magistrates ought not to hinder men or punish them for the matter of their consciences how then notwithstanding all your discourse of the power of the Magistrate which added to Non-communion will be an effectuall meanes to releeve persons injured to reduce Churches and persons going in schisme and errours shall persons injured be remedied or Churches and persons reduced For suppose the persons or Churches that now fall into such errours and schismes will pretend nay 't is so really that they in their conscience hold errours for truths and thereupon with-draw from such Churches to others nay suppose those who now receive these new truths should cast out of their fellowship and excommunicate some for holding otherwise as for instance a Church falling into Antinomianisme should censure some of their members that remain orthodox for legal Christians and for being enemies to free-grace and should judge themselves bound to doe so in these and such like cases what remedie is there for miscarrying Churches by all the power of the Magistrate you pretend to give to him But this is brought in here by you and given to him to put of that strong argument against your way and that you may have something for present to blind the eyes and stop the mouths of many that looke no further that it may serve your turne at such a straight whereas upon other principles you denie the Magistrate this when it shall come to be a matter of conscience And now by all the severall particulars under this fifth head the understanding Reader may observe that not only in many respects your non-Communion and Magistrates power are not a remedie comparable to the Presbyterian way not proper nor to the nature of the offences and things in question a way in stead of bringing things to an end redressing and mending matters amisse that will be but the beginning of more strife and making more differences and evils then either it sindes or can heale the mother and nurse of Confusions Disorders and endlesse contentions but also that all the power here pretended to be given to the Magistrate upon examination is no such matter nor will not amount to make good the ends propounded whereas the Presbyteriall Government here scandalized as either wholly inconsistent with this forme of Civill Government or else not giving it its due will be found by its principles not only to have powerfull spirituall remedies for all spirituall evils of the Church but will be found in many respects to make use of and to give honour and power to the Civill Magistrate as a nursing Father from first to last even in the ordinary way of the Order and Government of the Church beyond you besides what they give more in extraordinary cases in a Church miserably corrupted disordered c. Of which the Reader may read at large in Apollonius who was a great Presbyterian cap. 2. And so learned Zanchius in his Tractate de Magistratis shewes 't is in the power of the Magistrate not to suffer Heretickes nor erroneous persons to preach and he gives him coactive punitive power to cut them off Beza a great Presbyterian in his Epistles and other writings in matters of Religion doth not exclude the Magistrate but gives him that power in some things which you deny but besides that power they give the Magistrate they stand for as needfull in the Church Classes and Synods for the Government of it Zanchy shewes that discipline cannot take place where the Ministers never meet together the meâ—…ting of Ministers and Ecclesiasticall Synods we judge most necessary As no Politie Common-wealth or Kingdome can consist without their meetings Senates and Councels
and vigour are sensibly increased the Lord be praised And besides these letters the thing it selfe speakes for whereas in England he was not able to preach nor had not hardly three times in three yeares after he came into Holland he was Pastor of the Church at Arnheim and preached constantly and had that strength to beget a sonne whereas he being married many yeares in England never had any child And not only from him but from others also there have been many letters sent to commend the places where you lost your fellow labourers to be so healthfull and pleasant as to resemble them to Bury in Suffolke and Hart ford As for that high praise of those two worthy Ministers as precious men as this earth beares any I thinke it becomes you not they being yours and of your way and cannot be interpreted by the understanding Reader but that you take occasion here as in all other places of your Apologeticall Narration to magnifie and cry up your own party the more to make people to be in love with your way which had as precious men as this earth beares any but I judge it is too high and hyperbolicall for though I dearely loved the men and doe acknowledge they were precious and beleeve they are gone as that great Divine said in his sicknesse he was going where Luther and Zuinglius doe well agree yet I must needs correct that phrase as this earth beares any For I am of opinion that both in learning and piety they were inferiour to some not only in the earth which is wide and spatious containing Churches and Ministers more pretious then you know of but in this earth of England and Scotland and your Encomium of them if you remember what you writ before of some pretious men alive now in New-England as ever this Kingdome bred and granting that New-England is the earth doth amount to this that these two Ministers Mr Archer and Mr Harris were as pretious men as ever were in England which you must pardon me if I doubt it for I beleeve Whitakers Reynolds Baynes Greeneham Dod Brightman with many more were more pretious As for that other instance Your selves comming hardly off that service with your healths yea lives I have not heard of any great sicknesses any of you five had there excepting Mr Bridge who came hardly off with his health Some of you indeed had Agues there which you might have had in England in Suffolk or in Oxfordshire and for Mr Bridges sicknesse I judge it was as well occasioned and strengthened upon the unhappy differences and bitter divisions between him and Mr Simpson and Mr Ward and their Churches and the wicked reports raised upon him which discontented and troubled his spirit as by the distemper of the place or change of the aire and for others of you how fat and well liking you came backe into England and how all of you returned well clad and shining beyond most of us who lived alwaies in England many can witnesse and have spoken of it all which were no great signes either of the many other miseries the companions of your banishment nor of the comming off so hardly with your healths and lives When it pleased God to bring us his poore Exiles backe againe in these revolutions of the times as also of the condition of this Kingdome into our own Land the powring forth of manifold prayers and teares for the prosperitie whereof had been no small part of that publike worship we offered up to God in a strange Land we found the judgement of many of our godly learned bretheren in the Ministerie that desired a generall Reformation to differ from ours in some things wherein we doe professedly judge the Calvinian Reformed Churches of the first Reformation from out of Poperie to stand in need of a further Reformation themselves And it may without prejudice to them or the imputation of schisme in us from them be thought that they comming new out of Popery as well as England and the founders of that Reformation not having Apostolique infallibilitie might not be fully perfect the first day yea and it may hopefully be conceived that God in his secret yet wise and sacred dispensation had left England more unreformed as touching the outward forme both of worship and Church-government then the neighbour Churches were having yet powerfully continued a constant conflict and contention for a further Reformation for these foure score yeares during which time he had likewise in stead thereof blessed them with the spirituall light and that encreasing of the power of Religion in the practique part of it shining brighter and clearer then in the neighbour Churches as having in his infinite mercie on purpose reserved and provided some better thing for this Nation when it should come to be reformed that the other Churches might not be made perfect without it as the Apostle speaks Having Apologized for your selves and way in your principles opinions practises and carriage towards all sorts both before your exile and in your exile here in this section you come to Apologize for your selves and for what you have done since your comming back into England both before the Assemblie and since the Assemblie untill the time of putting forth this present Apologeticall Narration which beginning in this section is continued by you in the following sections to the 30th page But brethren why doe you in the beginning of this part of your Apologie give your selves that name of Gods poore Exiles was it not enough to have said when it pleased God to bring us backe againe into our owne Land but you must call your selves Gods Exiles and poore Exiles I wonder you tearmed not your selves poore pilgrims But the reason why you name your selves so here and in this Apologie take occasion so often to speake of exile and banishment may easily be guest at namely to commend your persons and way the more to the people and for want of better to take them with such popular arguments as suffering a grievous exile Thus in many other passages of your Apologie you bring in and insert many such kind of phrases to worke with the people the more but doe insinuate many things against the Presbyteriall way as of engagements publike interest c. But let me a little examine whether you five can fitly be stiled Gods poore Exiles I thinke to speake properly you neither were Exiles nor poore for you were not banished nor forced out of your owne Laud neither by being brought into the High-Commission Court or by Letters missive and Attachments out against you as ever I heard but excepting M. Burroughes who fled in haste as being in dangers for words spoken you went at your own times over into Holland with all conveniences of your Families and other companie Among the Greekes Fuga was called exilium and so you flying out of the kingdome in that sense may be cal'd exiles but how ever in some sense
and now of later yeares Scotland of old having been troubled with the Separatists and the Churches of France by Morellius against whom Sadeel did write and Beza in his Epistles writes against that principle of the power of the people that nothing is ratified except the people present by their expresse suffrages doe decree it and against private mens prophecying in the Church and of late though the controversie be growne so high yet Divines both in Holland and Scotland as your selves confesse have writ against your way and can see no light Iâ—…m it and in a generall Assembly of Scotland since our Parliament the point being moved and debated there it was concluded against by the whole Assembly nemine contradiconte as a Letter written from that Assembly to many Ministers in the City which I heard read at a meeting testifies neither are any of the Reformed Churches yet satisfied by all that hath been written about your Independent government nor our present Assembly by all they have heard from you after so many dayes speaking for your way So that what the Reformed Churches stand for now is not as comming new out of Poperie and so wanting light as you assert and therefore though they had not Apostolicke Infallibilitie yet they might well be in the right for Church-government and therefore the Reformed Churches and the Church of England too judging of government now after above 80. years comming out of Poperie and after hearing all that hath been said and that you can say now after almost a yeares sitting in the Assembly They yet judge Presbyteriall government by Classes and Synods to be the true forme of Church-government against your Independencie so that now the ground you going upon being taken away you cannot without great prejudice to the Reformed Churches so peremptorily judge them as you doe in this place of your Apologie And as your practise cannot be without prejudice to them and the imputation of Schisme in you from them to set up new Churches and divide from them upon these grounds so this passage of yours here against all the Reformed Churches cannot avoyd the suspition of great arrogancie and pride to proclaime your selves to see more then all the Churches in worship and government and to judge them so 'T is a high presumption that five such young men as you are and no deeplier studied should thus proudly and tanquam ex tripode so magisterially conclude against all the Reformed Churches Certainly had you had the humilitie of many of Gods servants you would rather have feared and questioned whether you might not have been mistaken in your grounds and therefore modestly have propounded your doubts to the Assembly to have resolved them rather then before the points ever came to be debated in the Assembly in such matters where you goe against the common streame of all Reformed Churches to have thus professedly peremptorily and resolvedly both in this Section and in the next pag. 24. determined the questions And brethren let me friendly mind you who are you five of what standing reading graces to take so much to your selves and to be so peremptory that you should see that which all the Reformed Churches doe not nor are not able by any of your Arguments nor what else is extant to see or be convinced of But as for the close to this part of the Section concerning the Calvinian Reformed Churches that it may hopefully be conceived that God left England more unreformed as touching Government and Worship then the neighbour Churches were c. It is a strange speech and savours of a strange high conceit of your owne way of Independencie and of your great light and abilitie in this Assembly where the Church of England is to be reformed and to speake plainly the English and sence of all these lines is this That it may be hopefully conceived that God in his secret yet wise and gracious dispensation hath all this long time for above 80. years left England more unreformed and of his infinite mercy on purpose reserved it for this present Assembly that M. Goodwin M. Nye c. might bring a new light in Church government and order and so Scotland and the Neighbour-Churches might be new-moulded into their way But how ever some of you are men of strong fancies and all of high confidences of your owne opinions and wayes yet I beleeve you will be deceived at this time how ever you may comfort your selves and Churches with the hopes of prevailing at another time saying that Presbyterie shall fall as Episcopacie hath done after it's time one of that way for want of arguments having used such words to me and that M. Goodwin M. Nye c. will not be able to effect what they desire and hope for but it may be rather hopefully conceived that in stead of the reformed Churches comming to them these five members of the Assembly at last with others to upon this glorious Reformation will be brought to joyn with other reformed Churches according to the solemn Covenant and oath themselves have entred into We found also which was as great an affliction to us as our former troubles and banishment our opinions and wayes wherein we might seeme to differ environed about with a cloud of mistakes and misapprehensions and our persons with reproaches Besides other calumnies as of schisme c. which yet must either relate to a differiâ—…g from the former Ecclesiasticall government of this Church established and then who is not involved in it as well as we or to that constitution and government that is yet to come and untill that be agreed on established and declared and actually exist there can be no guilt or imputation of schisme from it That proud and insolent title of independencie was affixed unto us as our claime the very sound of which conveyes to all mens apprehensions the challenge of an exemption of all Churches from all subjection and dependence or rather a trumpet of defiance against what ever power spirituall or civill which we doe abhorre and detest or else the odious name of Brownisme together with all their opinions as they have stated and maintained them must needs be owned by us Although upon the very first declaring our judgements in the chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church discipline and likewise since it hath been acknowledged that we differ much from them And we did then and doe here publikely professe we beleeve the truth to lye and consist in a midle way betwixt that which is falsely charged on us Brownisme and that which is the contention of these times the Authoritative Presbyteriall government in all the subordinations and proceedings of it I desire you to resolve me and the Reader how the first sentence in this Section Your opinions and wayes environed about with a cloud of mistakes and misapprehensions and your persons with reproaches can stand with those words in the 24 page We found many of those mists that
godly Minister of the City conferring with one of your precious Ministers about these points before he went into Holland and telling him This is Brownisme and Browne held thus what are you a Brownist Your companion and fellow-labourer answered him thus The way was of God but the man was nought namely Browne As for those words whereby you would evade the naine of Brownisme That upon the very first declaring your judgements in the chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church discipline and likewise since it hath been acknowledged you differ much from them 'T is not your saying so will cleare you unlesse you had named what that chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church-discipline is and how and in what words you declared your judgements and to whom for you might so expresse your selves as you doe in this Apologie too often whereby you might deceive the most of them to whom you declared your judgements yea many able Ministers and Scholars who are not versed in your distinctions and reservations and yet for all the declaring of your judgements differ very little from the Brownists except in different phrases and in not deducing such consequences Let me intreate you therefore to lie no longer hid under such generals but in your Reply declare particularly what you hold the chiefe point of all Church-discipline and wherein in that you differ from them But may I guesse at the chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church-government and discipline wherein you declared your judgements by which you would distinguish your selves from the Brownists Is it not that you give the power and authoritie to the officers and not to the people onely I have heard that of late you have declared your selves thus and the late Epistle before M. Cottons booke written by two of you implies so much But be it so though I can out of a letter of M. Bridges and from notes and manuscripts show that seven yeares agoe the expressions of some of you were otherwise yet this will not free yoâ—… for M. Iohnson fell to this and yet was guiltie of Brownisme for all that But in this also your principles and your practises are incoherent and however in fine words and flattering similitudes you dilate upon it in your Epistle to M. Cottons late booke yet it comes much to one the substance of which Epistle I will answer in my Rejoynder to your Reply or in some thing by it selfe and will wipe off the paint and guilt and then the naked counter and rotten post will appeare As for your publick profession that you beleeve the truth to lie and consist in a middle way betwixt Brownisme and that which is the contention of these times the Authoritative Presbyteriall Government in all the subordinations and proceedings of it I answer then Actum est de Presbyterio de Synodo You have determined the cause alreadie the Assembly may rise when they please and need sit no longer for the truth lies and consists in Independencie but I suppose though heretofore and when you wrote this Apologie you did so publickly prefesso and beleeve the truth to lie in your way the middle way as you terme it yet by what hath past since your height and courage is somewhat abated and you are not now so peremptory and I find now you write in another stile which becomes you much better We humbly suppose we humbly conceive again in all humilitie But if you be high still I must tell you your confidence hath deceived you and your middle way as you fancie it though I must still charge upon you refined Brownisme will prove like other pretended truthes lying in middle wayes just as the Catholicke and Arminian moderatours Cassander the booke called Interim and that booke of late times cal'd media via betweene the Papists and Protestants and betweene the Calvinists and Arminians And as for the way of your expression of Presbyteriall government I cannot but except at it observing that all along obliquely and as farre as you may you still asperse that You can here expresse Brownisme simply without any additions to it but you cannot passe by Presbyteriall government without a lash at it which is the contention of these times as if you would insinuate the blame of all the contentions and stirre of these times to be Presbyteriall Government whereas the truth is the contention of these times is Episcopall and your Independent Government which have caused and doe continue all the contention and stirres in Church and Common-wealth they mutually strengthning each other against Presbyteriall government and â—…o 't is still to be observed that all along in this Apologie where you speake of Presbyteriall Government you state the questions about that in the highest and utmost latitude but of your owne Church and way in the lowest yea lower then you hold as for instance in 11 12. pag. about the qualification of Church-members to deceive the Reader with your pretended moderation and the more to possesse the Reader against the jus divinum of the Presbyteriall way as for example in this place Authoritative Presbyteriall government in all the subordinations and proceedings of it Now the substance and summe of Presbyteriall governement may be according to Apostolicall Primitive patternes and yet all the subordinations and proceedings of it as it is practised in the Church of Scotland fitted to that Nation and Kingdome may have no Scripture examples Presbyteriall government in some Reformed Churches as at Geneva hath not all the subordinations and proceedings as Scotland being no Kingdome nor Nation and Presbyteriall government in England might have one subordination more then Scotland and some different proceedings in the manner and forme of carrying matters according to particular circumstances and occasions of time and place The Ministers of the Church of Scotland who hold their Church Government to be laid downe in the word of God for the substance and essentials of it doe not as I suppose hold that all the subordinations and proceedings as practised in their kingdome have a particular rule either of precept or example I doubt not but they well understand no whole Nation was converted to the faith in the time that the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles were written nor the supreame Magistrate in any Kingdome or Nation and therefore in no one Church or Nation where Christians were converted and Churches planted there could not be that formall combination into Classes setled Synods or generall Assemblies neither could the supreame Magistrate or a Commissioner for him be a prime member in their chiefe Assemblies and so I might instance in other particulars but the Church of Scotland find Presbyteriall Government in subordinations and appeales that is Government exercised in Churches and Assemblies which consisted of more members then could meet in one place and they find Assemblies where upon cases of difference there were more members and officers then of one Church as the Acts of the Apostles showes fully
all under his power and charge to worship God upon which learned Divines as Zanchius excellently show the dutie of Magistrates in reference to commanding and providing that their people shall worship God according to his will Rom. 13. 4. Ephes. 5. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Iohn 11. v. Revel 〈◊〉 20. with many other places in Scripture of removing away of evill and of not consenting to evill c the Parliament is bound to establish and to command obedience to that Reformation which is judged most agreeable to the Word and to suppresse and hinder all other It was excellently done by the Parliament to call together so many able godly and Orthodox Divines to debate and find out the mind and will of God for Doctrine Worship and Discipline and to give libertie to men of different judgements to bring in their grounds and after all wayes of enquiry and searching into truth and a Modell drawn up for them upon good grounds being satisfied 't is their dutie by their power and authoritie to bind men to the decrees of the Assembly and not to tolerate any other Doctrines Churches Worship or Government to be set up and exercised you ought not to suffer the weake to be destroyed nor the people to be drawn away by every wind of doctrine but when once upon good grounds the Reformation is concluded you must defend it against troublesome and turbulent spirits and in so doing God will be with you and subdue the people under you whereas if to please some people you suffer them to enjoy their own way God will not be well pleased with it neither can you answer it unto God You may lawfully nay ye ought in that which is good to compell men though they pretend conscience shall the errours of other mens consciences hindr you from yeelding that service which God requiteth of you may a Parliament displease God to please men or may they be pleaseâ—…s of other mens sins and wink at evill to content some persons No Parliaments in making lawes for Religion must depend on the will of God â—…led in his Word in the best and 〈◊〉 wayes communicated to them and not upon the consciences of some people 〈◊〉 The Toleration desired is against the solemne League and Covenant for Reformation taken by the Parliament and the Kingdome of England and Scotland and 〈◊〉 be coâ—…ed to without 〈◊〉 of that Oath and Covenant so that the Apologie and motion for a Toleration comes â—…o late the doore is shut against it the Kingdomes hands are bound so that if such a Toleration were not in itâ—… selfe unlawfull and against the dutie of the Magistrate yet now because of the Oath and Covenant 't is unlawfull so that whatever might have been granted before cannot now lest the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenant-breaking Now aâ—… Toleration and this moving for a Toleration by the Apologists is expresly against these branches of the Covenant 1. Against that clause in the first branch of endeavouring the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ixeland in Doctrine Worship Government and Discipline according to the Example of the best Reformed Churches now in this Petition to both Houses you would be exempted from the Reformation of the best Reformed Churches so that unlesse you understand the Brownists New-England or your own Churches to be the best Reformed you have broken your Covenant but though you may understand it so and may be tooke the Covenant in that sense yet I suppose you cannot think the Paâ—…liament whom you sâ—… to for a Toleration took the best Reformed Churches in that acception but for the Reformed Churches so called and commonly knowne as of France c. so that their granting a Toleration would be against this clause of the best Reformed Churches 〈◊〉 't is expresly against another clause in the firsâ—… branch And shâ—…ll endeavouâ—… to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformity in Religion Confession of Faith Forme of Church Government Directory soâ—… Worship and Catechiâ—…ing Now if the Parliament hath covenanted so how can it grant a Toleration of so different a Forme of Church Government and Worship as the Independent way is from the Presbyteriall and how can you be excused from explicite formall breach of Covenant in this part of your Apologie having sworne and subâ—…bed to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in these three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion who in stead of so labouring and endeavouring or ever so much as trying whether you with the rest of the Churches may not be brought into a neere Conjunction and Uniformitie just before the time the Assembly was comming to fall upon these points in difference to put out this Apologie and to move for a Toleration before hearing what could be said to you for satisfaction or ever debating the points in the Assembly Is this to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion c. before so much as ever debating points to conclude magisterially as you doe in pages 22. and 24. against the Reformed Churches and to desire an exemption from Conjunction and Uniformitie with the rest of the Churches in this Kingdome 3. 'T is against that clause in the second branch that we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme and whatever shall be found contrary to found doctrine and the power of Godlinesse lest we partake in other mens sins Now that which you move for is schisme and contrary to sound Doctrine the Church-way being a schisme besides many of your Church Principles are against sound Doctrine and the power of Godlinesse as that in your Apologie about the subject of Excommunication as that of a few people having power to joyne together and set up a Church and chuse what Ministers they will as that of the Independencie of particular Congregations from any Authenitative power c. so that the Parliament in the midst of their Reformation and blessed Conjunction according to the Word of God with the Reformed Churches should in allowing you a Toleration suffer a formall schisme both in Worship and Government in the midst of these Kingdomes 4ly This Toleration sued for is against a part of the fourth branch endeavouring the discovery of such as have been evill Instruments by hindring Reformation of Religion or making any faction or parties amongst the people contrary to this League and Covenant Now the Parliament is bound by this against all persons and things which hinder the Reformation and makes any faction or parties amongst the people now whether a Toleration granted yea but moved for would not hinder the Reformation of Religion and make Faction and parties amongst the people let it be considered I confesse I wonder how the Apologists ever took this Covenant or having taken
to Communion by the force of any sâ—…cular powâ—…r and gives his reasons there of the change of his judgement from what he formerly held because now he had experience how much evill the Toleration and suffering of them did as also how much the diligence of Discipline would conferre to the making of them better Beza in his Epistles and other writings speakes much against Tolerations and the libertie of Conscience pleaded for and answers to that whether libertie of Conscience is to be permitted No as this libertie is understood that is that every man may worship God after what manner he will himselfe For this is a meere diabolicall opinion That every one is to be suffered that if he will he may perish And in the same Epistle he saith of Tolerations This is that diabolicall libertie which hath filled Polonia and Transylvania with so many plagues of opinions which otherwise else no countries under the Sun would have tolerated And in this Epistle he tels him to whom he writes that which I perceive you call libertie of conscience but I on every side call an open destruction and ruine So in his Confession of Faith under that head of the office of the Christian Magistrate he speaks thus His office is to preserve the publike peace and quietnesse now whereas that cannot be rightly done but the true worship of God must flourish in the first place from whence flowes all happinesse it followes that nothing ought to be more looked to by the Christian Magistrates theÌ„ to have the Church ordered according to the rule of Gods Word whose authoritie they may defend and vindicate against all contemners and disturbers neither are they here to be hearkned unto who under the maske and colour of false pitie and mercie and not only by vaine and foolish arguments but arguments joyned with a great deale of impietie doe exempt false prophets and heretiques from the sword of Princes when as on the contrary no kind of men are to be compelled with greater severity as the expresse word of God commands and religious Princes have alwaies done And upon that subject that Heretiques ought to be punished by the Civill Magistrate he hath writ a book at large answering all the objections for Tolerations and pretended liberty of conscience And to the judgement of the Fathers and the Moderne Writers in this point I will adde the judgement of the Divines of New-England who are against the Toleration of any Church-Government and way but one For the Discipline appointed by Iesus Christ for his Churches is not arbitrary that one Church may set up one and practise one forme and another another forme as each one shall please but is one and the same for all Churches and in all the Essentials and Substantials of it unchangeable and to be kept till the appearing of Iesus Christ. And if that Discipline which we here practise be as we are perswaded of it the same which Christ hath appointed and therefore unalterable we see not how another can be lawfull And so in New-England they will not suffer Brownists Anabaptists Antinomians Mr Cotton the greatest Divine in New-England and a pretious man is against Tolerations and holds that men may be punished for their consciences as will appeare by his Letter to Mr Williams and Mr Williams answer both printed and his Exposition on the Vials wherein he answers an objection But you will say conscience should not be forced c. he answers Why doe you thinke Heretiques were not as conscionable in the old Testament as now if any man had a conscience to turne men from God he would have men of as much conscience to cut them off 5. The Magistrates Toleration of errours and new opinions is a kind of Invitation to them a Temptation and occasion of many falling who otherwise never would a snare to many a stumbling block laid before the weake the leaving a pit or well uncovered an opportunitie for Sathan a mans owne corruption or seducers to worke upon and to draw away by when men may broach opinions and vent them hold and practise what they please without any danger nay with the leave and countenance of the Magistrate what advantage will not Satan and wanton witted men take by this opportunitie makes many a thiefe and impunitie makes many venture and as 't is a shroud temptation to make many fall so a Toleration is a meanes of confirmation in the way of errour a great block to stop up the way of many who might be gained for ever returning when men know they may have their own way and are at their libertie they will goe oâ—… the engagement of credit c. is much being in a way to continue in it they have no necessity of harkning to Councell or waighing arguments But the deniall of a Toleration and by positive Lawes commanding the contrary as 't is a great Preservative so 't is a Restorative and a meanes of recovering many when men see they cannot have their wils they will consider a little better what they doe as also review their former thoughts and so may be reduced yea multitudes have blessed God they have not been left to their owne libertie but that by severity of Discipline meanes have been used This evill of Tolerations and good of Coactions by Lawes hath been seen and approved of by long experience Augustine that holy and learned Father from the experience of this changed his judgement about Tolerations whereas it was his first judgement and he had in a former Book writ that it did not please him that Schismaticks should be compelled and forced to communion by the force of any secular power afterwards he was of another mind and writes that the grounds of his change were these 1. The great evill of Tolerations the great evill that impunitie made many run into 2. The great good compulsion conferred to the making of many better which he saw by many Examples of whole Cities converted from Donatisme and comming to the Unitie of the Church In the 48. Epistle formerly quoted he writes thus to Vincentius That it was his opinion at first that no man was to be compelled to the Unitie of the Church all was to be done by perswasion we were to strive by disputation and to overcome by reason lest we should make those fained Catholiques whom we knew to be open Heretiques but this my opinion was overcome not by words but by demonstrative examples for first of all my owne city was brought to me for an Example which being wholly for Donatus was converted to the Catholike Unitie by the feare of the Imperiall Lawes so many other cities were named and reckoned up to me to these examples brought me by my Colleagues I gave place we see not 〈◊〉 few men but many cities who were Donatists to be now Catholiques and vehemently to detest that diabolicall separation and zealously to love unitie which persons were by the meanes
and occasion of this feare which displeases you made Catholiques by the lawes of the Emperours from Constantine down to these present Emperours How many did therefore remaine Donatists because they were there borne and no men did compell them to come out from them and to goe to the Catholique Church The terrour of these Lawes in the promulgation of which the Kings of the earth served the Lord did so profit all these that now others say thanks be to God who hath broken our bonds and hath translated us to the bond of peace others sory we did not know this to be the truth neither would we have learned it if we had been left to our libertie but feare made us attentive to know it Others say we were terrified from entring in by false feares which we should never have knowne to have been false but by entring in neither should we have entred in unlesse we had been compelled And so Augustine against Gaudentius speakes thus Whereas you thinke none must be forced to truth who are unwilling you are deceived not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God which makes those willing who when they were compelled were unwilling And in his books of Retractations he gives the experience of this fifth Reason as the ground of retracting what he had formerly writ and held in this point Learned Beza observed it in his time that Tolerations of sects and Libertie of conscience as it was called was the ground of filling Polonia and Transylvania with so many pestilent opinions which otherwise no people under the Sunne would have suffered and that if the Magistrate had tried by all meanes in Transylvania c. to have restrained that libertie they had not been brought to that condition which he judged no lesse miserable then Mahumetisme it selfe And he wishes that France had given Polonia an example of this one thing and showes the great difference between the peace and true liberty of conscience enjoyed at Geneva and in Polonia one granting Tolerations the other none So he shewes the benefit and good of compulsion I passe by that Augustine being taught by experience it selfe witnessed so often against the Donatists many to be of that disposition that they are by nothing more kept in dutie then by severity of Discipline so that what at first they left for feare of punishment afterwards they willingly cast away professing the sharpnesse used to have been very profitable We have seene also by our own experience in this intermysticall season though there hath been no formall Toleration yet for want of Government setled and people having been left to so great libertie multitudes are fallen and doe daily to Antinomianisme Anabaptisme Independencie yea to denie the Immortalitie of the Soule and then no expectation but many will fall more and more Independents and all kinde of Sectaries as long as they can have their libertie snuffe up the wind will not hearken to any way whereby they may receive satisfaction but if once the Magistrate declares and by laws concludes one way of Church-worship and Government then it may be they will heare Reason Men as long as they have any hopes will stand out who yet when they see no remedie will examine and consider Now what account God will exact for his Name prophaned for the Sacraments and Scriptures abused by the handling and administration of them who are not called and what answer must be made for the ruine of Soules harvest of sinne corruption of doctrine alwayes following the publike Toleration of heresies and schismes I humbly leave to be fully considered of and wisely prevented by the High Court of Parliament who must thinke that silence provokes and sufferance emboldens men to forsake Gods Truth and his Church even as in civill affaires the neglecting of justice maintains disorders 6. A Toleration of one or more different wayes of Churches and Church Government from the Church and Church Government established will be to this Kingdome very mischievous pernitious and destructive in regard of the effects and consequents of it how faire soever a Toleration may be pretended and how small soever the differences yet 't is of a vast and dreadfull consequence to this Kingdome Different Formes of Churches and Church Government in one state must needs lay a foundation of strife and division therein It is the admitting of a seed of perpetuall division within its selfe an opening a sluce to let in strife and contentions in all places publike and private Church and Common-wealth in Parliaments Corporations among the Ministers in Families Now how great an evill this is all wise states know and can stand with no Christian policie however it may agree with Machiavillian The different Interests and Principles of the Churches established and tolerated with other things concurrent especially in the partie tolerated apprehending themselves the weaker will be working in them to watch all advantages to grow and increase and to get into places and favour with great men and Princes as we see the Heretiques did in Ecclesiasticall Histories and the Arminians in the Netherlands with the Magistrates and will never rest working till they get the upper hand and suppresse the other But besides the continuall heart-burnings and divisions betweene the Ministers of the different Churches the people among themselves the husband and wife with the corruption of doctrine a Toleration will be a likely meanes of producing civill warres in this land and whereas now we have a warre between King and Parliament we may expect a warre amongst the people yea the Toleration desired would prove a mighty advantage for the Court party to make use of those sects and by enlarging some favours to them being the weaker partie to gain them by their help to overthrow the Government established and to advance the Prerogative the sad effects and mischiefes already without any formall Toleration of the different Churches and Governments doe appeare in the jealousies divisions delayes laying down of places in not being so active c. whereby the Court partie is strengthened Reformation hindred and the good partie weakned Now considering the many dangerous effects and consequents of a Toleration to this state and considering the small differences betweene the Apologists and the Presbyterians as themselves say and that they can for a need come to our Churches and partake in the Sacraments hold Communion with us as the Churches of Christ why should they have different Churches and Government allowed The Parliament upon so small a ground and needlesse a cause hath the lesse cause to give way to a Toleration which would certainely produce so great mischiefs and evils 7. Independencie and the Church way besides the evill of it in its selfe considered as being a schisme in forsaking the reformed Churches and constituting new the way of constituting Churches by the people the way of making their Ministers the refusing of beleevers and their children to the Sacraments
spread and they gained so many of the Magistrates on their side we should have found there would have been no ground for Mr Simpson to write thus As is cleare in the Low-Countries where so many Ministers and people turned Arminians Papists and Socinians In a word till the calling of Synods and the power of Presbyteriall government was shaken and some Arminians by flattery and policie wrought to put by Ecclesiasticall Assemblies and appealed to the Magistrates as Mr Simpson does in this Apologie from the Assembly there was not so great a defection both of Ministers and people unto errors in turning Papists Socinians c. 3. Though Presbyteriall government hath not its free course in the Low-Countries as in France Geneva Scotland besides the Toleration there yet there are infinitely fewer miscarriages in censures divisions errors in the Presbyteriall Churches then in the Independents there having been more contentions miscarriagâ—…s falling into errors in one small Church of the Independent way at Amsterdam and that within lesse then one yeere then in all the Churches in some Provinces I remember perfectly I have read in Mr Pagetts Arrow against Separation a man who lived long in Holland and much versed in the Controversie how he showes that out of a few members in the Brownists Churches more fall to Anabaptisme c. then out of many thousand members of the Presbyteriall Churches amongst the Dutch or out of all the English Reformed Churches there So that notwithstanding this new objection brought against Presbyteriall government if the Parliament should please to settle it and that in the full power and free use of Classes and Synods denying also a Toleration for Independencie unto which all erroneous and discontented spirits upon all occasions would flow and gather instead of opening a wide gate for errors divisions and many other mischiefes they shall lay a sure foundation for truth and peace in these Churches And in the last words of the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland I conclude this last Reason against a Toleration The Church of England which God hath blessed with so much learning and piety by this Reformation and uniformity with other reformed Churches which all of us have solmnely sworne and subscribed to endeavour in our severall places and callings should be a praise in the earth Now did not other occasions call me to take off my hand besides the booke it selfe swelled already to such a number of sheets I would have answered all the reasons brought both for Tolerations in generall and particularly for the Congregationall way as that men are to be perswaded in matters of Religion and not compelled as that the Conscience is to be left free as that the deniall of a Toleration will be a great persecution as that this is the way to make men hypocrites as that Gods people are a willing people c. but reserving this to another season in the close of this Discourse I will propound these following questions to the Apologists 1. Whether the commanding of men by the power of Lawes to doe their duties to doe the things which God requires of them with the using of outward meanes to worke them to it when unwilling be unlawfull for the Magistrate and against Christian libertie yea or no 2. In your moving for a Toleration doe you desire it for you five only with those who are actually and will come in to be members of your Churches or for all the Churches who are of the same way and Communion if for your selves and Churches onely which would be more tolerable a few then a great number and you being persons of more worth then most of the others consider the solemne League and Covenant is against it That we shall without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine so that you cannot be tolerated more then others besides if that were granted you being but five Ministers and making up but three or foure Churches the Parliament would be never the neerer in giving satisfaction for what should become of all the rest of the Ministers and Churches in City and Countrey of Mr C. Mr B. Dr H. Mr L. Mr G. Mr W. c. the Parliament would be accounted partiall and further off from giving content then if they granted none at all But if it be said you desire it for all Churches of your constitution I answer expresse so much under your hands and I will then give you an answer 3. Whether would you have a Toleration granted in the generall and indifferently for all consciences sects and opinions or only for some sort of opinions I suppose being wise men you will not expresse your selves for a Toleration in the first sense but in the latter I desire to know of you then what limits and bounds you will set and where the Parliament shall stop and what rules you will give for this as first whether the limitation shall be a Toleration only for all different formes of Church-Government and order so long as they agree in Doctrine with the Church established and are Orthodox but not of doctrine Now if you hold so then the Brownists and the Bishops with those who are for the Hierarchie must be tolerated as well as you many Episcopall men being sounder in doctrine then some of your way and if so then the simple Anabaptists and that sort of simple Anabaptists called Dippers will come in too saying that Baptisme at such an age and baptizing in rivers by dipping are but matters of order and time and what if yet a new forme of Church Government and way of externall order in the Administration of Gods Ordinances be set up by some a way which hath never yet beene practised by any must that be tolerated also consider with your selves whether there may not be a safer allowance of difference in some doctrines and opinions then of different governments as also what you have expressed of the consequence of Church Government and order and then resolve me whether you will have all formes of Church-Government allowed and in my Rejoynder I will apply my selfe particularly to show you the danger of that and how much hazard there is even of the Doctrine from the Discipline and Order if that be not right Or secondly would you have a Toleration in points of Doctrine too namely in lesser differences I desire to know what you will make the rule and measure of those lesser differences whether whatever may stand with saving grace and is not against the fundamentals of Doctrine and civill Government or what else Now if you meane so who shall determine and judge what may stand with saving grace c. every Heretick Socinian c. will plead his opinion may and I aske of you whether many points and practises very bad and pernitious may not stand with saving grace in some men at least for a time what say you to Polygamie that hath stood with saving
grace may that be tolerated what think you of many Arminian Tenets some Lutheran opinions Antinomian Doctrines and other dangerous points held by great Schollars as by Brentius Osiander Flaccius Illyricus may not some of these opinions stand with grace and might not some of these have grace and must these now be allowed to be preached in a Kingdome that hath established Articles of Religion and a Confession of Faith and shall such preachers gather people into Churches if all points may be preached and Churches allowed for all Doctrines that are not against fundamentals and that may stand with saving grace there will be a strange face of Protestant Reformed Churches infinite novelties may be broached and great stirs caused in a Kingdome I desire you in your Reply to state your lesser differences and to set downe your Boundaries what and what not and accordingly I shall answer In the meane time from these few hints you and the Reader may see besides the unlawfulnesse there 's difficultie where to fasten a Toleration Now in the close of my discourse against Toleration I take the humble boldnesse to represent to the Honourable Houses of Parliament that t is the Magistrates dutie not to suffer schismes heresies and other errours to grow and increase in the Church for as they are Magistrates they truly serve God whose Ministers they are and kisse the Son in revenging the injuries wantonly committed against God and his truth and in preserving the externall politie of Doctrine and manners one of the great services Princes and Parliament performe to Christ in reference to their great and high calling consists in making Lawes for the observing the Worship and Government of his House and by Lawes prohibiting all other worships and governments And I humbly beseech the Parliament seriously to consider the depths of Satan in this designe of a Toleration how this is now his last plot and designe and by it would undermine and frustrate the whole work of Reformation intended 't is his Master-piece for England and for the effecting of it he comes and moves not in Prelates and Bishops not in furious Anabaptists c. but in holy men excellent Preachers moderate and faire men not for a toleration of heresies and grosse opinions but an allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse this is candidus ille Diabolus as Luther speakes and mâ—…ridianus Diâ—…bolus as Iohannes Gersonius anâ—… Bâ—… expresse it comming under the merits of much suffering and well deserving clad in the white garments of Innocencie and Holinesse In a word could the devill effect a Toleration he would think he had gained well by the Reformation and made a good exchange of the Hierarchie to have a Toleration for it I am conâ—…ident of it upon serious thoughts and long searching into this point of the evils and mischiefe of a Toleration that if the devill had his choice whether the Hierarchie Ceremonies and Lyturgie should be established in this Kingdome or a Toleration granted he would chuse and preferre a Toleration before them and would willingly part with and give up all those for a Toleration of divers Sects and different Churches To conclude if the way of Independencie be of God and the Apologists can make that good let it be established by the Parliament and let 's all come to that if it be not why then should it be tolerated and why did the Apologists move for a Toleration before that ever it came to be debated and argued in the Assembly And now for a conclusion and closing up this Answer to the Apologeticall Narration I might as some Authors doe in answering Bookes gather together and draw up into one all the maine particulars of the Apologie animadverted upon and put them under certaine heads and ranke them in their severall formes and so present a Synopsis of them to both Houses and the Reader whereby they might have all in their eye at once see much in a little As 1. all the expressions of the high praises of themselves and their owne partie scattered up and downe in the Apologie 2. The Aspersions Depressions Insinuations both open and more secret of the Reformed Churches and of the Assembly 3. The crossings and interfearings of some passages in the book with others 4. The plaine and manifest untruths expressed in many pages 5. All the Reservations and Concealments of matters both of opinions and practises in the Church-way 6. The double doubtfull expressions both in words and matter 7. The mistating of the questions in difference both on their owne side and the Presbyterians stating their owne differences with the lowest and the Reformed Churches at the highest 8. The generall expressions without comming down to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which being deducted and extracted from the Apâ—…ie what remainâ—… behind saving some few argumenâ—…s hinted but a just testimoâ—… of the Parliament and Assembly with a 〈◊〉 character of the people and multitude and a brand upon the old separation which paâ—… also of the Parliament Assembly People and Separation 〈◊〉 brought in both the praise of 〈◊〉 and the dispraise of the other in reference to the magnifying and commending the more the 〈◊〉 and patience c. of the Apologists but I spare the wise Reader may observe the passages and I have animadverted upon them all along in my Answer I could have made one part of my Answer to this Apologie 〈◊〉 strange though â—…ue paraphrase upon it and andinâ—… 〈◊〉 have 〈◊〉 the Narration of themselves for the most part contrary But I shall reserve that with some other things I have yet to say iâ—… matter of fact till I put out my Rejoynder to their Reply In 〈◊〉 meane 〈◊〉 I shall conclude this Antapologie with â—…rning my 〈…〉 by dissolving your Churches and comming in to us and that you may repent and recall this Apologie I will represent to you the greatnesse of your sin and folly in making the Apologie and it stands in these particulars 1. It was an unseasonable disorderly work for the time and way of it 2. 'T is a Narration full of mentall Reservations high praises of your selves but censuring and scandalizing the Reformed Churches of Christ. 3. There are many untruths in it and that not only where you make naked relations oâ—… things but where you make professions before God and the world yea â—…here you make serious Invocations of God to aâ—…est them and men also and all this is done publikely by printing and deliberately and upon a designe to take the more with the people and to make way the better for a â—…oleration 4. There is a breach of the solemne Covenant subscribed by you especially in that clause of the first branch we shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Relegion Confission of Faith and Forme of Church-Government in stead of which before ever you â—…o much as tried and endeavoured it by debating those
matters of difference in the Assembly whereby it might be brought to an Uniformitie you endeavour by this Apologie a Toleration and sue for an exemption of Conjunction and Uniformitie in Church Government which is strange you should desire especially having coveâ—…anted to the contrary which breach of covenant is aggravated also that you do not onely do it your selves but you labour to bring the Houses into it by moving them to grant you a Toleration Now if a simple and single untruth need repentance what repentâ—…nce ought there to be for such a compounded aggravated evill as yours â—…s And as I have represented it to your own consciences that you may smite upon the thigh so I turne you over to your Churches whereof you are Ministers that they deale with you for your great sin and either bring you to Conâ—…ion and Repentance or else proceed to censure did I know where your Churches dwelt and where they meet I might then come and complain to them of your great sin but in stead of comming I send them this Answer and hereby give them notice and 〈◊〉 ready to satisfie any that shall desire further proofe and in stead of declaring by letters the offence I doe by printing declare it and require of the Churches especially Mr Sympsons Church as they will not be guilty of suffering known sinne in the Church as they would not suffer sinne to lye upon a brother and as they would vindicate the glory and honour of Christ that they call Mr Sympson to an account and admonish him and bring him to publike repentance for his publike sin or else upon impenitencie and obstinacie that they cast him out of the Church and I beleeve the sin he is charged with will fall under the subject of that dreadfull sentence according to what sins your selves judge that sentence is to be put in execution for Apol. pag. 9. But if Mr Sympsons Church neglect and will not question this sin then I desire the rest of the Churches of that Communion to send to the Churches of the Apologists and to charge them with their countenancing of sin and if the Churches will still beare and wink at sin and continue impenitent that then the rest of the Churches namely Mr Lockiers Mr Carters Dr Holmes c. doe pronounce the heavy sentence of Non-communion against the Apologists Churches and further to dèclare and protest this with the causes thereof to all other Churches of Christ that they may doe the like to send also to New-England and give notice to all the Churches of the Separation that they may Non-communion the Apologists Churches But if the particular Churches of the Apologists and all the Churches of their owne Communion will all hold to favour sin neither question the Apologists nor their Churches then we shall have a cleare instance of the partialitie of those Churches and of their allowing of sin among themselves and of the insuâ—…ticiencie of those Remedies of Submission Non-Communion Declaration and Protestation FINIS * Calv. epist. 65. Melanct. Verum si in nobis omnibus esset is animus qul esse debet aliquod forsan remedium posset inveniti Et certè foedum exemplum transmiâ—…imus ad posterot c. August Vincentio Epist. 48. Nunc vero etiam si tibi nihil profit non puto nihil ijs profuturam qui eam legere cum Deitimore sine personarum acceptione curaverint a Beza Epist. 1. And 1. Duditio Dominus te totamque familiam ob omni malo ac praesertim a Daemoniss meridianis istie obambulantibus custodiat * Mat. 1. v. 18 19. Acts 7. from v. 2. to v. 57. Acts 22. v. 1. to v 2â—… Acts cap 24. Acts cap. 26. a Justin. Mart. 2. Apolog. pro Christianis Tertul. Apol. Athenag Apol. vel legatio pro Christianis Athanas. Apol. Arnobij Apol. Eulog Apologâ—…t Sanctorum Martyr b Zuinglij Apol qua ad crimina respondet Apologet. contra Episcop Constant. Bucer Apolog. contra Brentium Dannaei Apolog. pro Helvet Ecclesijs Apolog Dan. pro adoratione Melancthonis Apol. August consess Apolog. pro Luthero Gualtb Apol pro Zuinglio Beza Apolog. Jevelli Apolog. Eccl. Anglicanae Mort. Apol. Cathol c Scâ—…venfeld Apol. contra Fabium Apol ad Regeâ—… Hung. de mediatione Stancari Apolog. Vorstij Theses Apolog. Exeg Apol. Oratio Apolog. Bertij Apolog. Apolog. Remonstrantium Apolog. Schast Francae D. P. Dirick Pâ—…ps Apol Apolog. Episcop Francisc. de S tâ— Cl. d Apologie of the Brownists Robins Apolog. Justif. of Separat e Apolog. for Ch. Cove Apol. Reply Davenport * Page 4. 11 19 12 24. Apolog. Apolog. M S. to A. S. cap. 5. pag. 83. Apolog. Dissert de Guber Eccl. pag. 620. Quinam bujuâ—… criminis rei judicentur me quidem latet neque in qirere ad nos attinet Hoc scio noâ—… convenire in eos qui intra sententiae nostrae terminos se continent Apolog. To his loving friends Mr Henry King Mr Tost Mr Smith Mr Raner Mr Mapp Apolog. Apol. Iusta necessaria per Joh. Robins cap. 6. De conjugio per pastores Ecclesiae celebrato Reformat of Ch. Govern in Scotland pag. 4 5 18 19. Reformat of Ch. Govern in Scotland pag. 10. Reformat of Ch. Govern pag. 18. 'T is laid for a common ground by the Divines in all the â—…eformed Churches that where a whole Nation is converted to the Christian faith every particular Church is not to be left to it selfe as if it were alone in a Nation but that Christ hath provided a way and there is a necessity of a common Nationall government to preserve all the Churchâ—… in unitie and peace Apolog. Page 9. Meâ—…ch Adam vita Whitak pag. 177. Mr Raâ—…b Narration of Ch. courses p. 1. The rest of the Churches in New-England came at first to them in Plimouth to crave their direction in Ch. courses and made them their patterne Apolog. Letter Mr Cottons letter examined and answered pag. 44. Mr Cotton himselfe and other most eminent Ministers in Nâ—…w-England had freely confessed that notwithstanding their former profession of Ministerie in old England yet in New-England till they received a particular calling from a particular Church that they were but private Christians Apolog. Robin p. 10 11. c. 12. de Eccl. Angl. * Robins Apol. cap. 12. p 78. Propria inquâ—… peculiaria in quibus verbi auditionem simpliciter noâ—… annumero â—…pote inqua non intercedit inter docentem discentem communio spiritualiâ—… sive Eccl. sive personalis nisi ex unione prae via Ecclesiastica aut personall Robins Catechis Quest. May all the faithfull partake in the Sacraments Ans. No except they be also added to some particular Congregation Apolog. Letter out of Holland De Ecclesijs reformatis quid aliud dicam eas pro veris genuinis c. Ecclesijs bahemus cum eisdem in sacris Dei communionem prositemur quantum in nobis est colimus conciones publicas ab illarum pastoribus habitas ex