According to the meaning of the statute I thinke he will not take the oath for then he should declare that the Queene hath power to establish and disanull Ecclesiasticall lawes to appoint Ecclesiasticall Iudges officers and commissioners to heare appeales or to appoint delegates to heare them when they are made from Ecclesiasticall courtes to nominate Bishops to receiue first fruits and tenthes of Ecclesiasticall liuings and such like rights priuiledges as the statutes of this land giue her but that he may not nor I thinke wil not do for that the lawes of their discipline deny it if so be he would I confesse he should satisfie me in this point but hee should vtterly ruinate the foundation of his aldermens consistoriall iurisdiction to whom they giue most of these things Yea I doubt whether others would be satisfied for as in religion it is a note of an hereticall disposition to doubt of the grounds of our faith so in policie it is a note of a disloyall person to doubt of the princes lawfull authoritie which the statutes giue her In which case seeing you were once albeit now you vtterly deny it I pray you let vs not haue you too much boast of your innocencie and that in such long Prefaces as that before your short briefe especially seeing heretofore you haue written and done many things to the praeiudice of her supremacie in Ecclesiasticall causes In the booke of your holy discipline wherein you hold that a perfect forme of Church gouernment such as is prescribed in Gods word is conteined you haue vtterly excluded the princes authoritie and debarred him from all gouernment for you haue not so much as mentioned him In one of the disciplinarian bookes of common prayer 1 This booke they sought to haue confirmed by act of Parliament and administration of Sacraments you leaue out the Christian magistrate in another there is some mention made of him but it is in the ende of the booke and after all the officers of the Church described Thirdly in direct termes you say that the Christian magistrate can no more be an officer of the Church 2 2. reply p. 420. then the pastors can bee magistrates how then can he be supreme gouernor of the Church that is no gouernor at all 3 2. repl 2. parl p. 147. as you say You hold also that a Christian magistrate hath no more authoritie in the Church then a heathen prince which is sufficient to exclude him out of the Church gouernment Finally you do subiect him to the excommunication of your elderships and place the magistrate among those that are to obey and the elders among commanders Fourthly you wil not deny but that the Papists deny her Maiesties supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall how then can it be said that you hold a good opinion of it when you in your books do giue her no more authoritie then they and abridge the same as farre as they doe 4 2. repl p. 48. Doe you not deny that the prince ought to be called the head of particuler and visible Churches within his dominions Do you not likewise 5 Ibidem p. 157. 167. take from him authoritie to determine of Church causes and 6 1. reply p. 192. power to ordeine lawes and ceremonies It cannot be denied your wordes are plaine all which you borow from the Papists They subiect the prince to the Pope you to your elderships neither can you shew any other difference betwixt your selfes and them For where you say first that you doe not exempt your ministers frō the punishment of the ciuil magistrate as the Papists doe their Priestes you erre in both for both would you claime immunitie for your ministers and they do not simply exempt their priestes but in certeine cases The authors of the 7 Admonition 2. p. 65. admonition would haue themselues and their companions by act of Parliament exempted from the authoritie of Iustices and from their enditings and finings In your 8 Lib. 2. reply you would haue the authoritie of the ciuill magistrate to descend from Christ as God and not as mediator whereof it followeth that Christian princes haue no rule ouer their subiects as Christians but onely as men 1 De visib monarch lib. 2. c. 3. as Saunders also holdeth all of you deny that any appeale is to be admitted from the determination of the synode to the prince How then are not the synodes exempt from princes iurisdiction when the prince hath no authoritie ouer them yea and in Suffolke certeine of this sect in a supplication to the Lords of her Maiesties counsell affirme that it was a hard course and tending to the discredit of the ministery that their ministers should be presented before the Iudges and endited arraigned and condemned Contrarywise 2 Against the apologie of the Church p. 306. Harding saith that good Kings may put Bishops and priestes in minde of their duties and bridle both their riot and arrogancie And in 3 Ibidem p. 303. another place that a prince may make lawes for the obseruation of both tables and punish the transgressors Feckenam 4 To bishop Horne offereth to sweare that her Maiestie hath vnder God the soueraintie and rule ouer all persons within her dominions whether they bee Ecclesiasticall or temporall Fatemur personas Episcoporum qui in toto orbe fuerunt saith 5 De visib monarch lib. 2. c. 3. Sanders Romano Imperatori esse subiectos And for ciuil causes it is their common opinion that 6 Harding reioynd f. 379. priests may be conuented before ciuil Iudges and for Ecclesiastical causes certeine 7 Act. of Parliament anno 1584. acts 2. ministers of Scotland refused to answere before the king Secondly you say that the Papists will haue the prince to execute whatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad which you will not For you graunt the prince authoritie to set order where there is no lawfull ministery and to stay vnlawfull decrees of lawfull ministers As if the 8 Hard. confus apol p. 304. 317. Papists did not grant as much or as if Papists held that the princes were to execute wicked decrees Againe it is euident that you would haue all men to stand to the 9 Admonit determination of your synodes And albeit your synodes doe decree bad things yet you wil not giue princes authoritie to iudge them How then can they stay them will you giue them extraordinary authoritie that is your meaning But how shall wee know when they worke by ordinary when by extraordinary authoritie Beside that you deny this extraordinary authoritie as long as there is a lawfull ministery And albeit your doings be vnlawfull yet you will not be stayed by the prince Thirdly you 10 2. p. 164. affirme that you do not vtterly seclude the prince from your Churchassemblies for oftentimes a simple man and as the prouerbe saith a gardner hath spoken to purpose
12 Odious railing a thing put among things indifferent odious and 13 Do I say you are ignorant in railing ignorant railing c. I referre my selfe to indifferent iudgement vpon the bookes which are extant Matth. Sutcliffe The beginning of M. Cartwr answere to this charge hath no sense to be picked out of it which I take to be the correctours fault and so let it passe his meaning is that I can not shew either in his reply or other treatise of his that he hath so litle knowledge in diuinity as to say that the extemporall prayers of any in these dayes are vttered by the holy Ghosts secret inspiration wherein he doth himselfe wrong to call his knowledge of diuinitie in question for to say what I finde if he approue M. Fenners booke so farre as his epistle commendatory pretendeth his skill in diuinitie is nothing singular the same doth appeare by strange points holden in his replies but better should I iudge if leauing his busie kinde of dealing against the state hee had written any booke concerning points of faith Yea in this very point in hand I do wonder how he hath here slipped for being charged by me for better liking of extemporall prayers then any prescript forme of prayers as is true indeed and shall be verified against him here very ignorantly he falleth into the contrary errour and sayth hee is not so ignorant of diuinity as to affirme that the extemporall prayers of any in these dayes are vttered by the holy Ghosts secret inspiration which is to deny the working of the holy Ghost in the prayers of the godly and to contrary the holy apostle which 1 Rom. 8. sayth that the holy Ghost helpeth our infirmities when we know not what to pray as wee ought and if our prayers were not ayded by Gods holy spirit they would not please God so that to charge him herewith is no slander nor if I should so say is it criminall to say that extemporall prayers of godly men deuoutly and discreetly conceiued are vttered by the inward motions of Gods holy spirit inspiring them but indeed I do not charge him herewith but say that M. Cartwr doth commend extemporall prayers as vttered by the holy Ghosts secret inspiration which is true for whereas the authours of the admonition do 2 Admonit to the Parliam say that in the time of the apostles the minister spowred forth hearty supplications to the Lord as the spirit moued them M. Cartwright doth take on him the defence of this admonition beside that for my part I neuer heard M. Cartwright refuse to vse extemporall prayers and I doubtnot but he thought he prayed by the motion or assistauce of Gods spirit yea and all the brotherhood as they are mistermed doeth vse long extemporall prayers both before meat and after meat especially at great feasts for then they make longest prayers now they doubt not but they pray as the spirit giueth them vtterance although indeed some of their speaks do rather sauour of the pot then of any goodnesse finally all the Baroists vpon these foundations and the common practise of extemporall prayers haue condemned all prescript formes of prayer which declareth that they vnderstood M. Cartwright as I do Secondly he asketh me in what time place and in whose hearing he could scarcely be induced to like of a prescript forme of prayer and saith that if these circumstances had bene set downe the vntruth of my allegation would haue appeared and that his continuall practise in the ministery doth witnesse against me Wherein I cannot chuse but wonder that hee should so much forget himselfe and wilfully abuse his reader For first he may remember that the admonition which he taketh on him to defend doth holde that in the primitiue Church the ministers were not tyed to any forme of prayers inuented by man And that my L. of Canterbury refuting this error he goeth about to 1 1. reply p. 106. answere his reasons and yeeldeth not till afterward so that it appeareth he was not easily induced he may also remember that hee would 2 In the end of his first reply haue all Apostolicall orders now receiued and vsed Beside that his continual practise is to vse no prescript forme of prayers but such as himselfe deuiseth and so do the whole race of these sectaries yea and so often times haue they bene heard to commend extemporall formes and to dislike prescript formes that I wonder how it cōmeth to passe that M. Cartwright should here mainteine the contrary But let vs see his reasons First saith he my continuall 3 A weake reason for his practise is not alwayes according to his opinion and doctrine He was wont to speake against dispensations and non residence and yet now is non resident from his charge and prayed to be dispensed with as they say practise in the ministerie doth witnesse against it a matter notoriously vntrue For as long as he was in Cambridge hee prayed as it pleased himselfe and vsed formes by himselfe deuised And so like wise doe all his followers and those haue I heard most cōmended which preaching continually yet euery day vsed new formes And albeit M. Cartwright did read prayers at Antwerp and Middleborough out of the booke as hee saith yet that doth not shew that those prayers were prescribed to him neither were his formes of prayer at Warwike such as this Church of England prescribed but such as himselfe deuised Yea although he said the Lords prayer yet in that sort it was not to him prescribed as he said it I beseech you therefore iudge what a hainous slander this is to say that M. Cartwright scarce could bee induced when time was to like of a prescript forme of prayer when hee is not able to shew that either by doctrine or example he approued prayers publikely prescribed nor would euer suffer himselfe to bee tyed to the orders of the Church of England And thus much is sufficient for answere of his slanders supposed to be published by me against him concerning breach of necessary duties Wherein it may clearely appeare that either hee doeth lewdly collect that which was not meant or seeke to shunne that which cannot bee auoyded Did you euer before this heare of a man so slandred with trueth and matters not criminall but belike the man was podagricall and cried before we came neere him Now wee are to proceed to examine his second branch of slanders concerning matters indifferent the which is as strange as the other so strange are they both that in no good authour I euer read the like But before we beginne a word or two concerning that wrong that M. Cartwright thinketh to be done to him being charged as he saith with odious rayling which yet I trust hee will not count slander both for that it is left out of his diuision and for that it is most euident and true That he raileth vnciuily these particulers testifie his aduersaries
this treatise the same is confessed to be no slander The repugnance appeareth diuersly the first title hath apologie the second hath briefe yet neither is euery apologie a briefe nor euery briefe an apologie true it is that the written copy hath a briefe answere but al commeth to one reckoning for euery briefe answere is not an apologie nor contrarywise Nay the same maketh much against M. Cartwright for his friend perceiuing that his 1 M. Cartwrights briefe confessed by I. Throkmorton to be no answere briefe conteined no sufficient answere put out answere and onely left vs a briefe as it were a briefe or writte to summone me to looke to their dealing and craftie cōueyances or els a briefe or summe of their manifolde folies the first title doeth pretend that M. Cartwr is iniuriously loaden with slanderous accusations the second maketh light of the matter and complaineth not at all and sure strange it were if a man should be loaden with so fewe lines and such light paper the first braggeth that al accusations are answered but M. Cartwright seemeth more wise and therefore professeth no such generall answere to be made The first calleth my bookes pamphlets no doubt the writer was angrie with them the second hath more gentle and modest termes is it therefore likely that M. Cartwright will agree with me that euen at the first dash is so farre fallen out with his friend The falsehood of these titles shall be discouered throughout this whole answere and may also in part appeare by this for that they both pretend that I haue slandred M. Cartwright and yet neither he nor his friend that so saucily prateth in the preface shall euer be able to iustifie their pretense for 1 L. 1. ff ad S. C. Turpil slander is a false imputation of matters criminall but the matters which M. Cartwright taketh on him to answere are either most true or not criminous Besides that it is one thing to charge a man with matters criminall iudicially and in his owne defence another to charge him extradicially or iudicially and by way of accusation but that which I alledge is by way of exception and in my defence and not with a minde to accuse Let him therefore that chargeth mee with accusation iustifie his charge and note the time and place when I committed this fault and the wordes of my accusation In deede I mooued certaine questions but there is great difference betwixt questioning and accusing the ende of questioning is resolution the ende of accusing punishment let him therefore shew whom I haue accused or prosecuted in iudgement to haue him punished Last of all the author of the first title complaineth of iniurious dealing but M Cartwright I thanke him doeth friendly discharge me and I doubt not but I shal be able most clearely to discharge my selfe The confession of the aduersary against himselfe is most apparantly set downe in the first title for if all accusations that sauour of slander are answered as the title pretendeth then is M. Cartwright not slandered when if questions be charges as hee saith he is charged with diuers foule and dangerous matters a briefe of which I will here set downe to let him either vnderstand his fault or els if he will not acknowledge it to prouoke him to frame vs a more sufficient answere ¶ A note of certaine speciall matters which haue bene demaunded of M. Cartwright and his consorts and whereto in this his briefe he answered nothing FIrst I 2 Answere to the pet p. 185 q. 2. demaunded of all the disciplinarians of which I take M. Cartwright to be the leader whether those that would ouerthrow not onely the priuileges and liberties of the Church of England but also the whole Ecclesiastical estate their iurisdiction also and liuings seeke not the ouerthrow of Magna charta and infinite statutes and of a great part of the common lawes of the Realme and seeke thereby the dishonour of her Maiestie and the state by requiring at her hands things that tend to the violating of the othe of Princes taken at their Coronation and the ouerthrow of the rewards of learning and whether such as are chiefe doers in these causes are longer to be suffered to proceede in their presumption This I demaunded to this M. Cartwright saith nothing Likewise Ibidem q. 4. I asked whether the booke of Fenner that is entitled sacra theologia and came foorth with the allowance of M. Cartwright conteine not strange diuinitie This question conteineth many members euen so many as there are strange positions concerning the holy Trinitie the Lawe the Gospel the Sacraments and such holy mysteries of diuinitie yet M. Cartwright satisfieth me in nothing Thirdly Ibidem q. 5. I desired to be resolued whether it be not reason to make M. Cartwright recant those dangerous opinions which vnder his credite come foorth commended in that booke And whether hee and his fellowes haue not made a newe booke of prayer and administration of Sacraments and practised the same or some part thereof without authoritie and whether they deserue not to be called in question for publishing of newe confessions of faith and new doctrine and what answereth he forsooth nothing It might also further be demaunded more particulerly of M. Cartwright whether in that communion booke which the disciplinarian faction offred to the Parliament desired to haue it authorized receiued throughout the Realme and which for the most part was either framed by his aduise or allowed by his consent there are not two articles taken out of the Creede namely that of Christes buriall and his descending into hell and whether there is not a newe article added binding all men to beleeue their new discipline making that a matter of faith and whether this be not a plaine violence offered to mens consciences and an alteration of our ancient faith Likewise whether there is not one petition wanting in the Lords prayer and their new paraphrase vpon it Theolog. sacr lib. 1. Likewise whether M. Fenner in his booke of diuinitie which M. Cartwright as it were authorizeth with his letters of commendation doe not confound essence and person in the diuine nature and deuide the persons of the Trinitie into two members and talke foolishly of the eternall generation of the Sonne of God and of the proceeding of the holy Ghost and teach that hatred as it is one of the attributes of God is the essence of God And lastly whether M. Cartwr will allow this for sound diuinitie In his next writ of slanders may it please him to shape vs a direct answere to these matters Ibidem q. 21. Fourthly it was demaunded by what authoritie the ministers of forreine Churches take on them to prescribe formes of discipline and new lawes to our Church Likewise it might be asked by what rule M. Cartwright taketh on him the ministery in our Church hauing no ordination vnlesse it be of deacon according to the lawes
saith they were worth to me two hundred marks by the yere they neuer haue bene nor wil be worth to vs both two bundred farthings in all More then that albeit my L. chiefe Iustice of England dealeth very honourably with vs yet I referre it to his iudgement if his lordship will be pleased to speake in so priuate a matter that we are great 31 Of gaine hoped for or in M. Cartwrights owne opinion loosers by M. Morgan and M. Morgan if hee haue but a sparke of good nature shall be constrained to 32 He eried out of your biting vsury they say confesse our kinde and christian de aling with him both in releasing his bargaine for a 33 Where is that summe now bestowed summe far vnderneath the valew it was worth and 34 Not without consideration I trust forbearing him many yeeres with much patience after the forfeiture of his recognizaence and many promises broken with vs. now where he excuseth these two last charges of being executor to my brother Stubbes and of purchase of lordshippes as hee doeth excuse many other things in that he doth propound it onely in a question it is 35 You are vnwoorthy to be accounted a disputer that take this for granted vnworthy of any answere not onely because a 36 Straunge logike like to the strange discipline quēstion doth more strongly sometimes auow then a bare affirmation but because he is so violently and bitterly caried against the petitioner for the things he hath set downe by 37 The reason is for that hee seemeth not to doubt of his questions way of question and for his 38 Where do I make such excuse shame you not to deuise these soolish shifty excuse of being mistaken by the report of others I referre it once againe to iudgement how it fitteth with the credit of a minister of the Gospell to publish and that inprint 39 If you can proue that I do so you shall haue the garland and bee crowned king of the Consistory what soeuer he receiueth by report to the discredit of a 40 Where were you ordeined minister minister of the Gospell and vnlesse M. Sutcliffe will 41 I will bring forth God willing that whereof you will be much ashamed bring foorth his reporter some will happily conceiue that it is the inuention of his owne head and 42 Do you doubt of that you affirmed euen now if he did receiue it by report yet seeing hee would blow it abroad by so strong a blast as the print at the least he should not haue simply affirmed it but set it downe as a report lastly where he saith he desireth not to be acquainted with my estate he forgetteth himselfe for in his former booke as I remember for I haue 43 You were not then wise to speake without booke so merely imagined vatrueth not the booke at this present hee 44 It standeth you vpon to shew where promiseth to be a diligent surueyour or auditour of mine and other mens lands and in deed he is ouer diligent that can find lands of mine in 45 Hane you indeede neither land lease nor fee your selfe nor other to your vse in Norfolke nor Warwike shire Warwikeshire and Norfolke whereof I my selfe nor any of my friends know not one foot yet M. Doctor Sutcliffe admonished in this behalfe of his 46 It will appeare otherwise for indeed albeit I haue not affirmed that hee hath three or soure mannours yet hee hath in value more rent then some fiue or sixe mannours in England vntrueth set foorth in his former booke and occasioned thereby to correct himselfe feareth not in this later to affirme boldly that if he haue done amisse it is because hee hath set downe too litle too much sayth he I haue not set downe f. 69. p. 2. f. 70. p. 1. Matth. Sutcliffe M. Cartwright in the title of his answere doth directly affirme first that I charge him with the purchace of 3. or foure good mānors secondly that he hath purchased them with the spoile of the Hospitall and thirdly by both these charges would he insinuate that he is grieuously slandred These three points therefore doe rest orderly to be discussed To the first I say that I do not charge him to haue purchased 3. or 4. Lordships why doth not he that so boldly auoucheth this of me and pleadeth so long against me for it set downe my wordes or note the place where they are to be found Is he determined still to vse such peruerse and strange dealing In deed I confesse that I asked a question of Tho. Cart. how a man might by selling a coat and a few acres of land buy 3. or 4. lordships But euery one that asketh a question especially in matter of fact and concerning other mens dealings doeth not affirme so much as hee maketh a question of for then were questions and affirmations all one and it were vnlawfull to aske question in any doubtful cause And then should the petitioner and other of M. Cartwr consorts that haue made many questions of very odious matters affirme the same which were a point very dangerous not only to the authors of the booke but to the whole Puritan faction that so well liked it The petitioner doth aske whether men ought to incurre penalties for opinions they helde doubtingly Quest 1 yet it is heresie to doubt of matters of faith and disloyaltie to doubt of the princes title and right to the crowne So that I trust he wil not affirme so much as is conteined in his question Secondly he demaundeth Quest 2 whether the forme of prayers and administration of Sacraments the attire of ministers and other ceremonies of the Church of England are more agreeing to the Church of Rome or the Apostles and primitiue order I trust M. Cartur wil not affirme thus much in behalfe of the author of the petition He asketh of me why M. Cartwr Quest 10 may not sell the landes he had frō his father and buy other with the money as well as some of the Bishops c. Yet he is not so to be vnderstood as if hee said that Bishops sel their fathers lands buy others For few of them buy whatsoeuer they sell and few may bee compared herein to M. Cartwright and his fellowes who vnder pretence of refusing liuings haue by begging and whining and shifting and compleyning of persecution enriched themselues their children while Bishops haue hardly bin able to beare the charge of their office and place He also demaundeth whether the Archbrshop Quest 13 of Canterbury should not rather be called Popes then Primates yet I trust hee will not affirme it he hath a litle more honestie as I thinke He asketh further whether Christ being before the Bishops Quest 17 and should answere as Bambridge and Iohnson did should not bee committed yet I hope he is not so blasphemous a wretch as to compare Christ with
sing so merely as he doeth if hee did not both please the flesh and keepe descant with his corruption too But let him sing descant and take pleasure in his crochet musicke as much as he list he is to answere it and not I. so long as hee breaketh not our patience with his importunate clamours nor driueth the consort out of tune I will not contradict him ¶ The preface Let this then bee the 1 A paterne whereby to shape out an hypocriticall grimare paterne good Reader whosoeuer thou art how to 2 These felowes do wrestle much but affection foyleth them still wrestle with thy affections in the like assaults ¶ The answere In the former part of this preface you haue seene how the writer hath played the painter now to teach you that hee hath more shifts and occupations to liue by then one he taketh vpon him to play the doctor and teacheth vs that himselfe neuer learned to wit a long lesson of patience so litle doeth he know in what ground he standeth or what is conuenient for him that he preacheth patience out of his preface Well seeing hee will needes teach vs lessons let vs listen what he saith Let this saith he be thy paterne a mishapen patterne certes not worth two patars for who wrestleth worse then hee that runneth out of the listes and who is lesse valiant then hee that being as it were blowne away with a tempest of his affections for a simple reuenge set out this simple pamphlet good for nothing but to make patternes for his daughters pincases The sequele will declare the same to be true ¶ The preface It is lamentable I confesse that such vncleane mouthes as 1 Viz. Of Iob Throk and his selowes this should 2 Viz. As the author of the preface doth thus take their libertie to 3 M. Cartwr hath much disgraced himselfe to suffer such a lewde and foule mouthed proctor to plead in commendation of his innocencie and patience disgrace at will ¶ The answere If this mans mouth had bin cleane he would not haue vttred so many foule words as he doeth wherein I would hee did not bewray as wel the malice of his heart as the venim of his tongue but this is but a peccadillio with this man A worse matter it is that euen now hauing proposed vnto vs a patterne of patience and set madame innocencie before our eyes that gaue not so much as one glance of reproch to his aduersary he looking beside his patterne doeth giue reproches to those that are not his aduersaries and doth degorge his stomacke I know not against whom calling them Rabshakeh Senacherib Shemei and vncleane mouthes by common construction of speach the words this and thus where he saith such vncleane mouthes as this should thus take are referred to the next person that is to M. Cartwright and himselfe so wisely doth the man couch his wordes that he condemneth himselfe and yet I am not ignorant that he meaneth others percase the rout of Martinists and such like which haue blacke and foule mouthes and haue taken to themselues libertie to say what they list If he meane me as commonly he doth falling into his rayling rage he is to vnderstand that I haue wronged none nor spoken against any but such as with open mouthes haue too long spoken against her Maiesties lawes and gouernment the reuerend Prelates of England the ancient rites and ceremonies of Christes Church A matter much indeede to be lamented albeit Martin and his brood when time was made a iest at it ¶ The preface But muse not at it good Reader 1 Here he looseth himselfe in a common place it hath bene so in all ages and will be so still for so long as the Lord giueth Satan leaue to buffet and assaile his Church so long thou mayest be assured there will 2 Nor a Martin nor such like railers as this Prefator neuer want a Rabshakeh a Shimei or a Senacherib to play their parts ¶ The answere So long as Martin hath any of his race liuing or M. Cartwright may command such writers as the author of this Preface there shall not indeed want Rabshakethes Shimees and Senacheribs to raile against Gods Church and to vexe honest men All this therefore albeit spoken against others yet most fitly may be applied against the heads of this sect For who I beseech you hath more railed against the Church of England and the present gouernment then the authors of the admonition then M. Cartwright I Penry Iob Throkmorton and such Martinistes who more like to Rabshakeh Senacherib or Shemei then they they take themselues indeed to be the Church but that is common to all schismaticks which professe to be that they are not Haeretici schismatici saith S. 1 Lib. de fide Symbolo c. 10. Augustine congregationes suas Ecclesias vocant sed haeretici de Deo falsa sentiendo ipsam fidem violant schismatici autem discissionibus iniquis à fraterna charitate dissiliunt quamuis ea credunt quae credimus quapropter nec haereticus pertinet ad Ecclesiam catholicam quoniam diligit Deum nec schismaticus quoniam dilig it proximum 2 Lib. 1. contr Parmenium Optatus calleth them rebels to the Church and saith they are cut off from the Church 3 De si l. ad Petrum c. 38. 39. Fulgentius doth not onely exclude schismatikes out of the Church but telleth them that eternall fire is their portion The Church is but 4 Ioan. 10. one fold and 5 Rom. 12. one body how then are they of the Church that as fishes slipped out of the net as it is written Luke 5. so are they departed out of the folde and diuided from the body Are they to be reputed members that haue no better vnion with the parts true members of the Church They alledge they are no schismatickes but that is as cleare as that schismatickes are no members of the Church For first they haue deuided themselues from their Bishops next they haue erected as it were new altars and formes of sacraments thirdly they haue ordeined ministers to themselues and refused the ministers of the Church and finally haue publikely oppugned both the gouernours and gouernment of the Church and therefore either is not the Church of England Gods true Church or these men are schismatickes Who then doth not muse at the impudencie of this felow that compareth those that defend the state and peace of this Church against mutinous Martinistes vnto blasphemous Rabshakeh and such rayling felowes being himselfe a chiefe railer and seeing his fellowes to haue railed so iniuriously against the Church of England As for those whom he accuseth they would bee much ashamed if they should not deale more modestly then he doth and farre more charitably ¶ The preface Neuerthelesse herein thou mayest 1 This sect doeth well comfort them selues with wine and comfits this exhortation
to iustifie my former sayings which vpon peine of hearing the lye I am compelled to mainteine But saith he Vniuer sities Churches and nations will giue testimony of his learning true and oft times they giue it vpon fauor or other respect which whether it be done in him or no I will not examine for I deny not that M. Cartwright is a man learned but that hee is excellently learned and not ignorant in the points wherein I haue iustly noted him that would be proued As for the charge of disloyaltie I doe not thinke that I haue simply and directly layd it vpon M. Cartwright yet if any such matter should haue bene spoken it might reasonably well haue beene iustified M. Whitaker in the place before recited doth touch him for the same matter and his books published abroad do sufficiently conuict him In a 1 Disciplina eccl sacra Dei verbo descript certeine forme of discipline about which M. Cartwright and diuers others had long beaten their heads and which they professe to be that discipline which they desire as drawen out of the Scriptures for the good gouernment of the church all gouernment is giuen to the eldership and the princes authoritie neither excepted nor mentioned to this forme M. Cartwright subscribed Beside this if disloyaltie be nothing but a course either repugnant or diuers from lawes dueties it is no such heinous matter to charge him with disloyaltie for what are his replies and all his actions but contradictions and spurnings and mutinous repinings against lawes and gouernours I need not to obiect vnto him his familiarity with I. Throk a man so wel acquainted with Penry Hacket and Copinger nor his owne knowledge of their generall bad intentions neither will I put him in remembrance of all his negotiaon about the new discipline and the new Communion booke nor his secret consultations nor his intelligences with men of forren nations and all for alteration of the ecclesiasticall state lawes I will not say all vntill I be vrged in the meane while M. Cartwright hath reason rather to thinke mee patient in suffering his abuses then himselfe abused or iniuried in this point that is therein touched so gently and euill doth this Praefator deserue at his hands that giueth occasion to looke vpon the mans olde sores which were now bound vp and to rub vp matters both forgiuen and forgotten himselfe certes was not wise to renew this quarrell which he will ere long wish ended and buried in silence the whole brotherhood of deformity will wish he had bene well couched in a soft featherbead to dreame of a new plot of reformation But doth the Praefator say the countries places of his resiance giue plentifull testimony for his loyalty as if guilty persons conuicted by witnesses and euident proofes were to be acquited for generall testimonials giuē to euery body vpon euery light occasion It is a common saying that 2 Plus creditur vni affirmanti quammille negantibus one witnesse in the affirmatiue prooueth more then 1000 in the negatiue how can they then that knew not these matters cleere him that is conuicted by witnesses and his owne writing the Praefator therefore that could neither see reason nor sense in my doings seemeth to haue litle sence of seeing neither hath he any great iudgement in discerning he denieth all but what proofe doth he bring for his deniall iust nothing but slipping into his hunters veine sayth I am slipper in the seare which kinde of stile doth argue this preface to be I. Throk a better hunter then writer and a man of so slipper and light behauior as that Th. Cartwright for all his great learning can not defend him nor garde him from iust reprehension ¶ The preface The 1 The best of this Preface and treatise is starke nought best is thou hast here by this meanes good Reader in the euennesse and 2 How then happeneth it that he complaineth of wrong equabilitie of the Doctors hand towardes this man an vnfallible line layed before thee whereby thou mayest measure all the rest of his 3 All these are nought but railing words of a chafing Proloquutor reproches so vnconscionably throwen vpon others for hath he dealt 4 More truely Christianly and charitably then he hath dealt with the whole Clergie of England truely modestly charitably and Christianly with this man then make thou no doubt or question but he hath affoorded full as good measure to others On the contrarie hath he made no bones hand ouer head and that beyond all 5 I haue kept better compasse then M. Cartwright compasse of Christianitie to speake his pleasure of this man being a man so notably graced in 6 By gifts he fareth the better gifts and one that hath so many vncontrollable 7 What notable graces certeine euidences of honest cariage of himselfe he hath doth cuill appeare by this Briefe euidences of his wise and dutifull cariage of himselfe ¶ The answere It should seeme that Iob Thr. who I thinke was the rude author of this vnpolished vnciuill preface would very gladly take some aduantage of my vnaduised dealing as he taketh it with M. Cartwright to cleere himselfe as if that which I sayd against him were nothing because it is not true as he beleeueth that I bring against M. Cartwright but it will not be This therefore is to be put among the rest of his odde or rather madde conclusions which in his moody passion he frameth beside all mood and figure his argument standeth vpon particulars and therefore hath no good sequele for he that speaketh vntrueth in one thing may well speake trueth in other things and although a man shoulde vnciuilly demeane himselfe towards one yet doth it not follow that he should doe it against all for if that were granted then were not M. Cartwr and Iob Throk to be credited in any thing vttering so manifolde vntruethes in many things nor were they to be so well accounted of among their consorts that haue so misdemeaned themselues against the Prelates of this Church diuers other honest men To let the aduantage of the bad sequele of this argument go I will not sticke to grant M. Throk this fauour that my dealings with M. Cartwright be taken as a patterne of the rest of my writings such is the assurance of my plaine and honest dealing with him and of his bad dealing misdemeanors against the state God is my witnesse I haue not charged him wittingly with vntrueth nor dealt vnconscionably with him and that I hope to make good either by M. Cartwrights owne wordes or by euident and sufficient proofes and so not onely M. Throkmortons cause will still lie in the suddes but M. Cartwr also will winne small grace by his calumnious and erroneous briefe Besides all this there is no small difference betwixt M. Carwright and M. Iob Throkmorton he is a man not vnlearned nor vnciuil