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train_v up_o in_o art_n and_o learning_n nor_o intend_v the_o ministry_n may_v in_o the_o public_a congregation_n prophesy_v which_o prophesy_v as_o it_o be_v not_o practise_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o by_o most_o of_o they_o it_o be_v not_o count_v warrantable_a and_o yet_o you_o allow_v it_o in_o your_o church_n to_o which_o i_o may_v add_v more_o instance_n but_o that_o the_o book_n will_v swell_v into_o too_o great_a a_o volume_n to_o the_o second_o head_n it_o be_v evident_a the_o râ—…formed_a church_n practise_v more_o safe_o as_o in_o decline_v your_o way_n in_o the_o last_o mention_v instance_n in_o not_o permit_v such_o as_o be_v layman_n to_o preach_v or_o prophesy_v in_o not_o forsake_v true_a church_n or_o true_a ministry_n for_o the_o mixture_n of_o wicked_a man_n but_o rather_o cast_v out_o such_o who_o after_o admonition_n continue_v impenitent_a so_o in_o other_o practice_n practise_v as_o the_o apostle_n receive_v man_n into_o their_o fellowship_n without_o any_o such_o curious_a inquiry_n and_o long_a detention_n send_v man_n from_o one_o to_o another_o and_o require_v such_o preparative_n and_o condition_n to_o church-fellowship_n as_o your_o church_n have_v do_v the_o way_n and_o practice_n the_o reform_a church_n walk_v in_o be_v the_o good_a old_a way_n know_v and_o beat_v for_o some_o score_n of_o year_n in_o which_o so_o many_o great_a light_n and_o godly_a people_n have_v walk_v and_o so_o more_o safe_a than_o high_a and_o new_a way_n that_o a_o few_o man_n but_o of_o yesterday_o have_v take_v up_o and_o have_v not_o yet_o well_o air_v much_o less_o digest_v and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n france_n holland_n scotland_n i_o deny_v the_o thing_n you_o charge_v they_o with_o to_o be_v additament_n or_o to_o be_v proper_o so_o call_v for_o if_o the_o particular_n instance_a in_o by_o you_o will_v be_v find_v to_o have_v a_o foot_n in_o the_o scripture_n and_o practise_v
aâ—…itted_v to_o fellowship_n with_o you_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n whether_o will_v you_o have_v admit_v we_o now_o to_o that_o passage_n of_o you_o in_o the_o close_a of_o this_o first_o instance_n and_o church_n make_v up_o of_o such_o we_o be_v sure_o no_o protestant_n can_v but_o approve_v of_o etc._n etc._n this_o go_v upon_o the_o mistake_v observe_v by_o i_o before_o that_o the_o question_n in_o controversy_n about_o church-member_n be_v not_o nor_o can_v be_v mean_v whether_o church_n make_v up_o of_o such_o member_n as_o all_o account_n faithful_a be_v by_o all_o protestant_n approve_v of_o to_o be_v true_a church_n with_o who_o communion_n may_v be_v hold_v but_o whether_o communion_n may_v not_o be_v hold_v with_o such_o church_n and_o such_o receive_v into_o communion_n and_o fellowship_n of_o church_n who_o many_o church_n especial_o you_o and_o those_o of_o the_o churchway_n do_v not_o upon_o your_o principle_n acknowledge_v true_a and_o fit_a matter_n and_o in_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a all_o protestant_n of_o note_n be_v against_o you_o and_o for_o we_o account_v such_o visible_a church_n as_o you_o here_o instance_n in_o a_o utopia_n hold_v it_o donatism_n and_o anabaptism_n and_o when_o the_o papist_n do_v in_o their_o write_n father_n upon_o they_o such_o a_o visible_a church_n as_o you_o dream_v of_o and_o such_o principle_n as_o you_o hold_v they_o disclaim_v it_o as_o learned_a whitaker_n it_o be_v the_o constant_a opinion_n of_o all_o the_o great_a protestant_a divine_n calvin_n luther_n zanchius_n junius_n etc._n etc._n eccles._n that_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n consist_v of_o good_a and_o bad_a resemble_v therefore_o to_o a_o field_n net_n floor_n where_o chasse_n as_o well_o as_o good_a grain_n etc._n etc._n again_o concern_v the_o great_a ordinance_n of_o public_a prayer_n and_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o church_n whereas_o there_o be_v this_o great_a controversy_n apolog._n upon_o it_o about_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o set-forme_n prescribe_v we_o practise_v without_o condemn_v other_o what_o all_o side_n do_v allow_v and_o themselves_o do_v practice_v also_o that_o the_o public_a prayer_n in_o our_o assembly_n shall_v be_v frame_v by_o the_o meditation_n and_o study_n of_o our_o own_o minister_n out_o of_o their_o own_o gift_n the_o fruit_n of_o christ_n ascension_n as_o well_o as_o their_o sermon_n use_v to_o be_v this_o we_o be_v sure_a all_o allow_v of_o though_o they_o superadd_v the_o other_o to_o this_o 2_o instance_n concern_v the_o great_a ordinance_n of_o public_a prayer_n and_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o church_n i_o shall_v give_v you_o one_o answer_v after_o another_o follow_v you_o according_a to_o your_o expression_n upon_o it_o wherein_o i_o find_v you_o like_o yourselves_o in_o the_o other_o precedent_a part_n in_o general_n and_o in_o the_o dark_a so_o as_o few_o reader_n can_v tell_v by_o your_o narration_n here_o what_o you_o hold_v and_o practice_v about_o public_a prayer_n 1._o whereas_o you_o say_v there_o be_v this_o great_a controversy_n upon_o it_o about_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o set-forme_n prescribe_v i_o must_v tell_v you_o this_o great_a controversy_n upon_o it_o be_v raise_v only_o by_o yourselves_o and_o the_o brownist_n there_o be_v no_o divine_n nor_o no_o reform_a church_n that_o i_o know_v of_o but_o do_v allow_v the_o lawful_a use_n of_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n compose_v and_o frame_v by_o other_o as_o by_o synod_n and_o assembly_n and_o do_v make_v use_n of_o such_o sometime_o as_o the_o church_n of_o france_n and_o holland_n in_o the_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n usual_o do_v and_o those_o who_o practise_v they_o not_o so_o much_o yet_o at_o least_o hold_v they_o lawful_a and_o i_o challenge_v you_o in_o all_o your_o read_n to_o name_n one_o divine_a of_o note_n and_o orthodox_n that_o ever_o hold_v set-forme_n of_o prayer_n prescribe_v unlawful_a except_v only_a independent_o 2._o what_o understand_v you_o by_o set-forme_n prescribe_v whether_o prayer_n only_o make_v and_o frame_v by_o other_o as_o suppose_v by_o a_o assembly_n or_o synod_n but_o yet_o not_o impose_v or_o whether_o prayer_n compose_v by_o other_o and_o then_o prescribe_v and_o require_v by_o authority_n to_o be_v use_v now_o if_o you_o say_v you_o understand_v it_o in_o the_o second_o sense_n that_o you_o question_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o that_o but_o not_o in_o the_o first_o i_o ask_v you_o whether_o you_o will_v practice_v and_o do_v hold_v it_o lawful_a to_o use_v in_o your_o assembly_n prayer_n make_v and_o frame_v by_o other_o as_o suppose_v a_o directory_n for_o worship_n which_o i_o the_o rather_o ask_v you_o because_o your_o word_n afterward_o hint_v as_o the_o ground_n for_o your_o own_o practice_n and_o against_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n speak_v against_o all_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n compose_v by_o other_o that_o the_o public_a prayer_n in_o our_o assembly_n shall_v be_v frame_v by_o the_o meditation_n and_o study_n of_o our_o own_o minister_n out_o of_o their_o own_o gift_n which_o reach_v to_o all_o prayer_n frame_v by_o other_o man_n though_o they_o be_v leave_v at_o liberty_n to_o use_v or_o not_o use_v they_o and_o further_o this_o argument_n of_o you_o speak_v only_o against_o form_n of_o prayer_n as_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n but_o speak_v not_o at_o all_o to_o it_o as_o impose_v and_o enjoin_v but_o let_v your_o expression_n of_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n prescribe_v be_v take_v in_o the_o second_o sense_n yet_o i_o be_o ready_a to_o maintain_v against_o you_o that_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n lawful_a for_o their_o material_n and_o establish_v by_o a_o lawful_a power_n to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o public_a assembly_n may_v lawful_o be_v practise_v by_o minister_n and_o the_o people_n safe_o join_v in_o they_o 3._o as_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o in_o what_o sense_n you_o take_v set-forme_n prescribe_v so_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v whether_o in_o the_o question_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n you_o understand_v only_a form_n of_o prayer_n frame_v by_o man_n and_o minister_n in_o the_o church_n or_o whether_o not_o also_o prayer_n record_v in_o the_o scripture_n as_o for_o instance_n the_o lord_n prayer_n whether_o ever_o you_o practise_v the_o use_n of_o that_o in_o your_o assembly_n which_o question_n i_o make_v because_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o any_o of_o you_o five_o ever_o use_v the_o lord_n prayer_n either_o in_o your_o own_o assembly_n or_o in_o we_o nor_o indeed_o that_o any_o of_o your_o way_n do_v it_o be_v now_o make_v by_o many_o a_o note_n of_o a_o formalist_n now_o if_o you_o account_v the_o use_n of_o it_o lawful_a consider_v the_o great_a offence_n the_o total_a disuse_n of_o it_o give_v to_o many_o and_o how_o it_o hinder_v the_o word_n to_o many_o consider_v that_o scripture_n with_o other_o like_a 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o i_o wonder_v how_o you_o dare_v neglect_v it_o and_o by_o the_o way_n let_v i_o tell_v you_o that_o 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o be_v strong_a to_o command_v you_o the_o use_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n then_o for_o what_o it_o be_v allege_v by_o you_o in_o the_o 17._o page_n namely_o for_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o i_o propound_v to_o you_o further_o whether_o if_o some_o other_o prayer_n word_n for_o word_n record_v in_o the_o scripture_n shall_v be_v put_v into_o a_o directory_n you_o will_v use_v they_o as_o also_o whether_o you_o will_v practice_v the_o read_n of_o set_a psalm_n and_o chapter_n appoint_v out_o for_o you_o 4._o as_o for_o the_o practise_v your_o own_o prayer_n without_o condemn_v other_o i_o answer_v that_o be_v not_o so_o 1._o because_o you_o bring_v many_o argument_n against_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n frame_v by_o other_o and_o prescribe_v that_o amount_v to_o a_o condemnation_n in_o a_o high_a nature_n term_v such_o prayer_n will-worship_n invention_n of_o man_n as_o be_v evident_a both_o by_o manuscript_n and_o by_o print_a discourse_n of_o mr_n davenports_n m._n cotton_n prescribe_v m._n eye_n 2._o you_o withdraw_v from_o our_o sacrament_n and_o public_a assembly_n upon_o this_o ground_n and_o have_v draw_v many_o away_o with_o you_o and_o have_v set_v up_o new_a church_n but_o it_o may_v be_v you_o will_v in_o this_o narration_n have_v this_o evasion_n that_o though_o you_o condemn_v the_o practice_n yet_o not_o all_o the_o person_n that_o use_v they_o you_o do_v not_o condemn_v they_o as_o ungodly_a i_o answer_v no_o more_o do_v the_o rigid_a anglic._n brownist_n nor_o anabaptist_n who_o yet_o condemn_v sufficient_o our_o church_n and_o our_o prayer_n and_o you_o too_o for_o they_o acknowledge_v both_o you_o and_o we_o to_o have_v eminent_a personal_a grace_n 5._o as_o to_o that_o argument_n bring_v by_o you_o for_o conceive_a prayer_n but_o against_o set-forme_n make_v by_o
complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o 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heresy_n schism_n or_o strange_a opinion_n be_v broach_v in_o your_o church_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o do_v with_o they_o nor_o how_o to_o suppress_v they_o nor_o how_o to_o have_v the_o person_n censure_v be_v so_o powerful_a in_o particular_a congregation_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o give_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v they_o for_o these_o heresy_n schism_n and_o to_o imprison_v banish_v etc._n etc._n if_o they_o do_v not_o revoke_v they_o new-england_n practise_v the_o way_n of_o independency_n and_o not_o have_v class_n synod_n that_o have_v authoritative_a power_n to_o call_v to_o account_v and_o censure_v such_o person_n be_v necessitate_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v the_o more_o to_o they_o a_o power_n of_o question_v for_o doctrine_n and_o judge_v of_o error_n and_o punish_v with_o imprisonment_n banishment_n and_o they_o find_v out_o a_o pretty_a fine_a distinction_n to_o deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o 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to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
do_v not_o go_v to_o heaven_n to_o be_v with_o christ_n express_o contrary_a to_o the_o 2_o cor._n 5._o 6_o 8._o and_o to_o philip._n 1._o 23._o now_o whether_o some_o of_o you_o may_v not_o hold_v those_o opinion_n see_v they_o be_v public_o preach_v at_o arnheim_n and_o never_o condemn_v as_o ever_o i_o hear_v i_o know_v not_o but_o have_v reason_n rather_o to_o suspect_v you_o do_v how_o ever_o though_o you_o do_v not_o nourish_v any_o monster_n or_o serpent_n of_o opinion_n in_o your_o bosom_n yet_o i_o fear_v you_o have_v run_v worm_n in_o your_o head_n and_o together_o with_o the_o gold_n silver_z and_o ivory_n of_o orthodox_n truth_n you_o have_v store_n of_o ape_n and_o peacock_n conceit_n and_o toy_n as_o strange_a coin_a distinction_n new_a strain_a exposition_n of_o scripture_n odd_a opinion_n about_o the_o personal_a reign_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n and_o i_o ask_v you_o what_o the_o anoint_v with_o oil_n of_o sick_a person_n as_o a_o ordinance_n for_o church-member_n and_o what_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o hymn_n compose_v by_o the_o gift_n of_o a_o church-member_n cum_fw-la multis_fw-la aliis_fw-la be_v whether_o be_v not_o these_o strange_a conceit_n and_o how_o ever_o you_o may_v be_v free_a of_o monster_n and_o serpent_n of_o opinion_n lurk_v in_o your_o bosom_n yet_o there_o be_v much_o of_o a_o monster_n and_o the_o serpent_n lurk_v in_o this_o apology_n and_o to_o be_v sure_o one_o monster_n of_o opinion_n you_o all_o hold_v general_o and_o some_o of_o you_o have_v preach_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o divers_a sect_n and_o opinion_n and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o grant_v you_o five_o be_v so_o orthodox_n and_o suppose_v your_o argument_n good_a to_o prove_v it_o expose_v yourselves_o to_o the_o hazard_n of_o discovery_n in_o this_o assembly_n which_o be_v no_o conclude_a argument_n yet_o there_o be_v many_o member_n of_o those_o church_n to_o which_o you_o belong_v beside_o many_o other_o member_n of_o church_n of_o your_o way_n and_o communion_n 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occasion_n to_o grant_v and_o yield_v etc._n etc._n i_o not_o be_v present_a at_o the_o debate_n will_v say_v nothing_o against_o it_o but_o whether_o since_o the_o write_n of_o your_o apology_n and_o the_o assembly_n come_v to_o the_o point_n of_o discipline_n which_o be_v proper_o you_o your_o freehold_n you_o have_v be_v so_o fair_a and_o moderate_a endeavour_v upon_o all_o occasion_n to_o grant_v and_o yield_v to_o the_o utmost_a latitude_n of_o your_o light_n and_o conscience_n that_o i_o doubt_v and_o your_o best_a friend_n be_v not_o satisfy_v in_o it_o but_o rather_o much_o offend_v and_o you_o have_v much_o lose_v yourselves_o with_o they_o by_o your_o demeanour_n and_o way_n of_o manage_v matter_n of_o difference_n in_o the_o assembly_n but_o suppose_v all_o you_o say_v of_o yourselves_o in_o this_o section_n be_v full_o so_o both_o before_o and_o since_o your_o apology_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o much_o material_a nor_o much_o to_o be_v trust_v to_o be_v upon_o the_o trial_n of_o your_o good_a behaviour_n for_o it_o be_v probable_a all_o that_o may_v be_v do_v out_o of_o policy_n in_o reference_n to_o the_o main_a design_n of_o obtain_v a_o toleration_n which_o at_o first_o can_v be_v imagine_v to_o have_v any_o probability_n of_o be_v gain_v without_o all_o seem_a fairness_n and_o compliance_n and_o draw_v near_o to_o we_o and_o therefore_o this_o apology_n be_v so_o frame_v in_o the_o word_n phrase_n and_o composure_n of_o it_o that_o in_o it_o you_o have_v stretch_v yourselves_o to_o the_o utmost_a latitude_n and_o high_a compliance_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o reform_a church_n even_o beyond_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o you_o in_o our_o sense_n and_o in_o common_a acception_n and_o beyond_o what_o many_o of_o your_o follower_n will_v own_v as_o also_o you_o hide_v and_o reserve_v several_a thing_n you_o hold_v both_o in_o matter_n and_o manner_n that_o so_o by_o all_o this_o you_o may_v court_v the_o parliament_n assembly_n reform_a church_n to_o bear_v with_o such_o conscientious_a man_n who_o differ_v so_o little_a from_o they_o and_o be_v so_o moderate_a and_o temperate_a also_o in_o and_o about_o the_o debate_n of_o those_o difference_n but_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o assembly_n be_v wise_a to_o see_v into_o and_o through_o these_o artifices_fw-la and_o to_o consider_v that_o if_o once_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v there_o will_v quick_o be_v discover_v another_o face_n of_o thing_n which_o hitherto_o stand_v behind_o the_o curtain_n as_o for_o this_o passage_n in_o the_o close_a of_o this_o section_n your_o not_o be_v backward_a urger_n unto_o a_o temper_n not_o only_o in_o thing_n concern_v your_o own_o conscience_n but_o other_o also_o such_o as_o may_v suit_v and_o tend_v to_o union_n as_o well_o as_o search_v out_o of_o truth_n judge_v this_o to_o be_v as_o great_a and_o useful_a a_o end_n of_o synod_n as_o a_o curious_a and_o exact_a discussion_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o lesser_a difference_n with_o 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and_o have_v not_o the_o truth_n constrain_v i_o my_o call_n to_o this_o work_n be_v strong_a and_o the_o cause_n of_o god_n and_o reformation_n much_o in_o my_o eye_n i_o have_v out_o of_o my_o personal_a love_n and_o respect_n to_o some_o of_o the_o apologist_n give_v over_o the_o work_n i_o can_v and_o be_o ready_a to_o do_v they_o any_o service_n of_o love_n even_o the_o mean_a to_o wash_v their_o foot_n and_o shall_v much_o rejoice_v in_o their_o happy_a union_n and_o grow_v into_o one_o body_n with_o we_o in_o this_o reformation_n and_o let_v not_o this_o answer_n for_o the_o truth_n and_o plainness_n of_o it_o be_v brand_v for_o a_o bitter_a rail_a malicious_a answer_n but_o let_v this_o also_o be_v add_v to_o the_o former_a premise_n that_o the_o apologist_n need_v such_o a_o answer_n as_o shall_v not_o flatter_v nor_o extol_v they_o but_o be_v free_a and_o plain_a for_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o apologist_n have_v be_v too_o much_o flatter_v both_o in_o their_o person_n and_o churchway_n and_o they_o be_v undo_v for_o want_n of_o be_v deal_v with_o plain_o and_o free_o a_o candle_n have_v be_v too_o much_o hold_v to_o they_o and_o i_o hope_v this_o answer_n may_v do_v much_o good_a even_o to_o abate_v their_o swell_n and_o confidence_n and_o if_o many_o of_o the_o minister_n will_v deal_v more_o plain_o with_o they_o it_o will_v be_v better_o both_o for_o they_o and_o we_o i_o remember_v a_o passage_n of_o etc._n calvin_n in_o a_o epistle_n of_o he_o to_o melancthon_n concern_v luther_n which_o may_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o minister_n in_o reference_n to_o the_o apologist_n how_o that_o if_o there_o be_v that_o mind_n in_o all_o of_o we_o which_o ought_v to_o be_v some_o remedy_n may_v be_v find_v and_o certain_o we_o transmit_v a_o unworthy_a example_n to_o posterity_n whilst_o we_o cast_v away_o all_o liberty_n rather_o than_o we_o will_v offend_v one_o man_n and_o will_v not_o his_o vehemency_n the_o more_o rise_v and_o grow_v whilst_o all_o bear_v with_o he_o and_o suffer_v all_o thing_n etc._n etc._n 4._o answ._n the_o writing_n of_o book_n against_o the_o error_n and_o opinion_n though_o of_o good_a man_n be_v not_o speak_v against_o good_a man_n or_o oppose_a godliness_n when_o the_o apologist_n in_o their_o apology_n write_v against_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n and_o in_o page_n 〈◊〉_d and_o 24_o of_o theiâ—…_n apologie_n do_v profess_o declare_v they_o judge_v the_o calvinian_a reform_a church_n to_o stand_v in_o need_n of_o a_o further_a reformation_n themselves_o and_o that_o the_o truth_n lie_v in_o the_o â—…ddle_a way_n betwixt_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n etc._n etc._n do_v they_o speak_v against_o the_o saint_n and_o all_o the_o godly_a minister_n in_o those_o church_n when_o paul_n withstand_v peter_n to_o the_o face_n because_o he_o be_v to_o be_v blame_v for_o his_o withdraw_a and_o separate_n do_v paul_n speak_v against_o the_o apostle_n of_o christ_n or_o speak_v evil_a of_o the_o saint_n no_o more_o do_v i_o in_o write_v this_o book_n good_a reader_n not_o to_o deâ—…ine_v thou_o long_o from_o enâ—…ing_v into_o the_o house_n itself_o lay_v all_o thing_n together_o consider_v wise_o of_o person_n and_o thing_n and_o have_v not_o the_o faith_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n the_o lord_n of_o glory_n with_o respect_n of_o person_n accept_v and_o take_v in_o good_a part_n what_o be_v now_o bring_v to_o thy_o hand_n as_o intend_v for_o thy_o spiritual_a good_a for_o the_o recover_n or_o preserve_v thou_o from_o error_n on_o the_o right_a hand_n and_o let_v love_n cover_v any_o mistake_v or_o fault_n thou_o may_v meet_v with_o in_o it_o i_o be_o but_o one_o against_o five_o as_o also_o in_o so_o many_o sheet_n there_o may_v well_o be_v errata_fw-la and_o all_o thing_n not_o so_o strong_a in_o much_o write_n a_o man_n pen_n may_v slip_v and_o mistake_v and_o with_o long_o wake_v a_o watchful_a man_n may_v wink_v now_o and_o then_o consider_v also_o this_o answer_n have_v be_v make_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o much_o preach_n and_o many_o other_o business_n have_v be_v destitute_a also_o of_o some_o advantage_n and_o help_n which_o at_o another_o time_n i_o may_v have_v have_v thy_o good_a acceptance_n of_o it_o thy_o profit_v by_o it_o and_o thy_o earnest_a prayer_n to_o god_n for_o i_o will_v encourage_v i_o to_o go_v on_o in_o further_a writing_n to_o which_o i_o have_v so_o deep_o engage_v myself_o in_o this_o book_n and_o god_n spare_v i_o life_n and_o health_n i_o have_v take_v up_o a_o fix_a resolution_n never_o to_o give_v over_o write_v till_o this_o church_n be_v settle_v and_o these_o great_a schism_n among_o we_o heal_v but_o if_o it_o shall_v so_o happen_v that_o this_o antapologia_fw-la shall_v profit_v nothing_o at_o all_o many_o christian_n who_o i_o intend_v it_o most_o unto_o yet_o i_o question_v not_o but_o it_o will_v profit_v some_o even_o as_o custodiat_fw-la augustine_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o vincentius_n write_v even_o they_o who_o have_v a_o care_n to_o read_v it_o with_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n and_o without_o respect_n of_o person_n now_o the_o god_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n reveal_v abundance_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n and_o give_v we_o truth_n and_o peace_n always_o by_o all_o mean_n he_o fulfil_v that_o promise_n in_o jeremie_n to_o his_o people_n in_o this_o kingdom_n to_o give_v they_o one_o heart_n and_o one_o way_n to_o fear_v he_o for_o the_o good_a of_o they_o and_o their_o child_n after_o they_o and_o so_o commend_v thou_o dear_a christian_a to_o god_n and_o the_o word_n of_o his_o grace_n and_o this_o work_n of_o i_o to_o his_o blessing_n i_o conclude_v this_o epistle_n as_o beza_n do_v he_o to_o duditius_n farewell_o the_o lord_n keep_v thou_o and_o all_o thou_o from_o all_o evil_a and_o especial_o from_o noonday_n devil_n which_o walk_v about_o in_o this_o place_n and_o in_o these_o time_n that_o be_v from_o the_o error_n of_o anabaptism_n brownism_n antinomianisme_n toleration_n of_o sect_n and_o schism_n under_o pretence_n of_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n amen_n you_o in_o christ_n tho._n edward_n errata_fw-la page_n 1._o marg_n for_o mat._n 1._o read_v mat._n 1â—…_n p._n 12._o l_o 6._o add_v and._n p._n 14._o l._n 22._o for_o have_v r._n have_v p._n 36._o l._n â—…0_n tor_n wa_o r._n be_v p._n 41._o l_o 15._o for_o nor_o r._n not_o p._n 42._o l._n 29._o for_o pareusâ—…_n r._n pareushesessâ—…_n p._n 43._o l._n 1â—…_n for_o satisfy_v r._n satisfy_v p._n 44_o l._n 24._o for_o conceive_v r._n conceive_v p._n 46._o l._n 19_o at_o the_o full_a point_n 6._o follow_a linâ—…_n though_o they_o be_v print_v of_o the_o same_o character_n which_o the_o word_n of_o the_o letter_n be_v yet_o they_o be_v the_o word_n of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o answer_n p._n 47._o l._n 6._o for_o remain_v it_o remâ—…e_v p._n 53._o l._n 14._o add_v after_o relâ—…_n short_a p._n 57_o l._n 28._o but_o must_v be_v transpose_v after_o there_o and_o deal_n the_o p._n 64._o l._n â—…1_n r._n for_o which_o though_o come_n it_o be_v which_o commit_v though_o it_o be_v p._n 6â—…_n l._n 15._o 〈◊〉_d censure_n add_v the._n p._n 85._o l._n 15._o for_o libâ—…tles_n r._n libertine_n p._n 8â—…_n l._n 30._o for_o mark_n r._n rule_n p._n 94._o l._n 26._o after_o other_o add_v to_o all_o the_o ordinance_n p._n 101._o l._n 17._o r._n for_o leave_v to_o follow_v leave_v follow_a the._n p._n 107._o l._n 9_o r._n for_o conceive_v receive_v p_o 124._o l._n 〈◊〉_d for_o to_o r._n of_o l_o 9_o for_o real_a r._n evil_a p._n 134._o l._n 16._o for_o office_n upon_o mistake_a partialitiâ—…_n r._n offence_n upon_o mistake_n and_o partiality_n p._n 1â—…5_n l._n 2._o r_o for_o judge_v it_o judge_v p._n 153._o l._n â—…4_n for_o each_o r._n the_o p._n 154._o l._n 12._o addd_v after_o be_v as_o p._n 156._o l._n 2._o at_o thus_o must_v be_v a_o full_a point_n and_o all_o the_o semicircle_n in_o this_o page_n must_v be_v put_v out_o p._n 217._o l._n â—…7_n for_o state_n parsâ—…te_fw-mi r._n state_n part_n p._n 28â—…_n l._n 28_o for_o pleasâ—…_n r._n partakerâ—…_n p._n 305._o for_o sâ—…_n r._n 〈◊〉_d p._n â—…71_n l._n 〈◊〉_d add_v for_o before_o 〈◊〉_d full_a p._n 285._o l._n 27._o for_o diametral_o r._n diametrical_o p._n 294._o l._n 2._o for_o witness_n r_o witness_v p._n 295._o l._n 〈◊〉_d â—…adde_a after_o according_a to_o p._n 2â—…6_n l._n 13._o for_o shall_v r._n can_v p._n 297._o l._n 36._o for_o beat_v r._n break_v antapologia_fw-la or_o a_o full_a answer_n to_o a_o book_n entitle_v a_o apologetical_a narration_n etc._n etc._n as_o the_o assertor_n of_o truth_n through_o the_o subtlety_n and_o malice_n of_o satan_n and_o his_o instrument_n cause_v prejudices_fw-la and_o mistake_v in_o the_o mind_n
upon_o our_o person_n in_o our_o absence_n begin_v by_o our_o presence_n again_o and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o in_o a_o great_a measure_n to_o scatter_v and_o vanish_v without_o speak_v a_o word_n for_o ourselves_o or_o cause_n and_o if_o at_o your_o first_o appear_v so_o many_o of_o those_o mist_n and_o in_o so_o great_a a_o measure_n be_v vanish_v then_o sure_o by_o that_o time_n your_o writ_n this_o apology_n all_o may_v have_v be_v vanish_v and_o scatter_v but_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o who_o mis-apprehension_n do_v you_o understand_v you_o lay_v under_o that_o you_o present_v this_o apology_n to_o the_o parliament_n and_o appeal_v to_o they_o do_v you_o mean_v you_o have_v lie_v under_o the_o dark_a cloud_n of_o the_o manifold_a mis-apprehension_n of_o the_o parliament_n 〈◊〉_d or_o of_o the_o people_n of_o the_o kingdom_n certain_o not_o under_o the_o dark_a cloud_n of_o the_o mis-apprehension_n of_o the_o parliament_n they_o be_v too_o great_a and_o wise_a a_o body_n 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new_a churchway_n as_o that_o he_o will_v not_o be_v celebrato_fw-la marry_v by_o minister_n but_o defer_v marriage_n till_o he_o come_v into_o holland_n where_o present_o after_o his_o come_n he_o be_v marry_v not_o in_o the_o way_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n there_o but_o by_o the_o magistrate_n according_a to_o the_o way_n of_o the_o brownist_n as_o it_o be_v lay_v down_o in_o robinson_n apology_n 5._o i_o ask_v what_o some_o of_o you_o who_o name_n be_v to_o this_o apology_n with_o other_o minister_n of_o your_o way_n who_o be_v now_o with_o god_n with_o some_o gentleman_n do_v at_o missendon_n in_o buckingham-shiere_n the_o winter_n and_o spring_n before_o you_o go_v into_o holland_n and_o whether_o that_o company_n which_o go_v over_o with_o you_o into_o holland_n be_v not_o engage_v in_o the_o churchway_n and_o principle_n before_o you_o leave_v england_n and_o i_o ask_v how_o long_o it_o be_v when_o once_o you_o come_v to_o viana_n where_o you_o settle_v for_o a_o time_n 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the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n so_o that_o if_o these_o instance_n be_v true_a here_o be_v no_o great_a time_n of_o inquire_v and_o view_v after_o exile_n before_o you_o fall_v to_o practice_v nor_o no_o great_a time_n allot_v to_o search_v out_o what_o be_v the_o first_o apostolic_a direction_n pattern_n and_o example_n of_o those_o primitive_a church_n record_v in_o the_o new-testament_n and_o to_o put_v it_o past_a question_n that_o you_o be_v resolve_v of_o your_o chuâ—…-way_n before_o you_o leave_v england_n at_o least_o mr_n goodwin_n and_o mr_n nye_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n by_o i_o under_o mr_n archer_n hand_n the_o pastor_n of_o their_o church_n date_v septemb_n 12_o 1637._o which_o be_v about_o six_o week_n after_o land_v for_o in_o another_o letter_n from_o he_o to_o i_o he_o write_v i_o land_v july_n 27._o wherein_o he_o write_v thus_o in_o way_n of_o a_o answer_n to_o a_o passage_n in_o a_o letter_n of_o my_o date_a august_n 23._o concern_v his_o be_v in_o the_o churchway_n as_o for_o your_o judgement_n and_o the_o work_n you_o be_v about_o i_o hear_v of_o it_o before_o and_o have_v not_o so_o long_o stand_v by_o afflict_a sober_o and_o conscientious_o ta_o search_n out_o the_o truth_n but_o have_v thorough_o see_v into_o the_o bottom_n of_o it_o in_o such_o a_o measure_n as_o i_o be_o confident_a that_o in_o the_o end_n you_o will_v all_o come_v to_o we_o and_o not_o we_o to_o you_o and_o in_o the_o same_o letter_n he_o speak_v of_o all_o with_o he_o to_o be_v of_o the_o same_o judgement_n which_o full_o show_v their_o engagement_n before_o they_o come_v to_o holland_n but_o as_o to_o that_o dilemma_n whether_o before_o your_o go_v into_o holland_n or_o whether_o afterward_o you_o fall_v upon_o the_o positive_a part_n of_o church-worship_n and_o government_n it_o matter_n not_o much_o in_o reference_n to_o that_o which_o follow_v upon_o it_o for_o even_o that_o which_o be_v grant_v by_o you_o without_o any_o question_n namely_o your_o 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and_o the_o temptation_n of_o company_n place_n condition_n draw_v you_o strong_o though_o you_o think_v it_o not_o but_o before_o i_o pass_v to_o other_o reason_n express_v by_o you_o in_o this_o page_n i_o can_v pass_v over_o the_o high_a and_o great_a word_n of_o yourselves_o namely_o in_o this_o enquiry_n we_o look_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n as_o impartial_o and_o unprejudiced_o as_o man_n make_v of_o flesh_n and_o blood_n be_v like_a to_o do_v in_o any_o juncture_n of_o time_n that_o may_v fall_v out_o the_o place_n we_o go_v to_o the_o condition_n we_o be_v in_o the_o company_n we_o go_v forth_o with_o afford_v no_o temptation_n to_o by_o as_o we_o any_o way_n but_o leave_v we_o as_o free_o to_o be_v guide_v by_o that_o light_n and_o touch_v god_n spirit_n shall_v by_o the_o word_n vouchsafe_v our_o conscience_n as_o the_o needle_n touch_v with_o the_o loadstone_n be_v in_o the_o compass_n brethren_n it_o have_v be_v more_o humility_n and_o modesty_n to_o have_v suspect_v yourselves_o and_o to_o have_v prefer_v in_o honour_n other_o before_o yourselves_o and_o it_o have_v be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o counsel_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n not_o to_o have_v thus_o extol_v yourselves_o who_o be_v you_o and_o what_o be_v you_o that_o you_o shall_v affirm_v all_o this_o of_o yourselves_o the_o apostle_n st_n paul_n peter_n james_n and_o john_n will_v not_o have_v speak_v these_o word_n of_o themselves_o and_o indeed_o some_o of_o the_o word_n do_v more_o suit_n the_o condition_n of_o angel_n and_o the_o spirit_n of_o just_a man_n make_v perfect_a than_o man_n on_o earth_n subject_a to_o like_a passion_n as_o other_o man_n what!_o your_o condition_n etc._n etc._n afford_v no_o temptation_n to_o by_o at_o you_o any_o way_n but_o leave_v you_o so_o free_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v such_o a_o piece_n of_o self-flattery_n and_o pride_n that_o hardly_o the_o popes-parasite_n have_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o these_o word_n exceed_v the_o great_a light_n 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these_o with_o you_o 〈◊〉_d and_o do_v you_o not_o in_o the_o netherlands_o live_v in_o the_o best_a place_n in_o much_o plenty_n ease_n and_o pomp_n but_o what_o great_a deprivation_n at_o once_o be_v this_o of_o what_o ever_o be_v dear_a for_o man_n to_o take_v their_o own_o time_n and_o to_o go_v in_o summer_n time_n with_o knight_n lady_n and_o gentlewoman_n with_o all_o necessary_n into_o holland_n and_o there_o to_o take_v choice_n of_o all_o the_o land_n where_o to_o reside_v and_o with_o wife_n child_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o friend_n and_o acquaintance_n free_a from_o the_o fear_n and_o possibility_n of_o vexation_n of_o the_o spiritual_a court_n and_o prison_n to_o enjoy_v all_o plenty_n and_o freedom_n as_o you_o do_v there_o be_v many_o will_v have_v be_v glad_a and_o still_o will_v be_v of_o such_o a_o deprivation_n at_o once_o as_o to_o be_v so_o exile_v into_o holland_n to_o be_v able_a to_o spend_v two_o or_o three_o hundred_o pound_n per_fw-la annum_fw-la there_o and_o i_o must_v here_o mind_v one_o of_o you_o in_o who_o name_n this_o reason_n be_v bring_v that_o this_o can_v be_v affirm_v of_o he_o that_o for_o his_o conscience_n he_o be_v deprive_v at_o once_o of_o what_o ever_o be_v dear_a to_o he_o see_v he_o flee_v into_o holland_n for_o word_n about_o state_n matter_n as_o for_o those_o other_o reason_n follow_v you_o have_v no_o now_o commonwealth_n to_o near_o to_o frame_v church-government_n unto_o you_o have_v no_o state_n end_n or_o poloticall_a interest_n to_o comply_v with_o no_o kingdomâ—…_n in_o your_o eye_n to_o subdue_v unto_o your_o mould_n no_o preferment_n or_o worldly_a respect_n to_o shape_v your_o opinion_n for_o suppose_v all_o this_o to_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v which_o yet_o i_o for_o my_o part_n upon_o good_a reason_n doubt_v what_o will_v you_o build_v upon_o it_o what_o follow_v that_o therefore_o you_o must_v alone_o be_v in_o the_o right_n for_o church-government_n it_o be_v deny_v it_o no_o way_n follow_v for_o 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state-end_n and_o political_a interest_n namely_o â—…at_a when_o some_o great_a person_n lord_n and_o other_o shall_v be_v force_v through_o the_o badness_n of_o the_o time_n as_o be_v expect_v and_o fear_v to_o seek_v for_o shelter_n in_o providence_n and_o hispaniâ—…la_n you_o may_v be_v there_o ready_a to_o remove_v with_o they_o and_o be_v take_v along_o into_o those_o country_n where_o you_o hope_v to_o set_v up_o new_a church_n and_o subdue_v those_o country_n and_o people_n which_o shall_v come_v over_o into_o your_o mould_n or_o if_o otherwise_o thing_n in_o england_n shall_v come_v to_o have_v a_o great_a turn_n as_o they_o have_v by_o this_o parliament_n then_o also_o by_o be_v in_o holland_n rather_o than_o new-england_n you_o be_v nigh_o hand_n and_o your_o estate_n more_o at_o command_n quick_o to_o return_v to_o england_n have_v this_o kingdom_n in_o your_o eye_n hope_v you_o may_v either_o subdue_v england_n into_o the_o way_n of_o your_o church-goverâ—…ent_a or_o else_o 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spirit_a man_n and_o of_o the_o vulgar_a and_o all_o kind_n of_o spirit_n but_o before_o i_o leave_v this_o passage_n of_o you_o concern_v the_o separation_n pray_v let_v i_o ask_v you_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o parenthesis_n and_o to_o who_o you_o speak_v it_o who_o you_o call_v brownist_n and_o why_o can_v you_o not_o have_v write_v who_o be_v common_o call_v brownist_n be_v it_o not_o to_o both_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n to_o who_o this_o apology_n be_v present_v and_o to_o who_o you_o appeal_v your_o discourse_n be_v carry_v as_o speak_v to_o they_o and_o do_v not_o this_o phrase_n of_o speech_n carry_v with_o it_o a_o secret_a check_n of_o the_o house_n for_o call_v the_o separatist_n brownist_n call_v they_o so_o as_o you_o will_v not_o call_v they_o but_o who_o be_v you_o that_o you_o may_v not_o speak_v for_o so_o much_o as_o concern_v this_o in_o the_o language_n of_o both_o house_n if_o both_o house_n call_v they_o brownist_n why_o may_v not_o you_o five_o term_v 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of_o your_o churchway_n lest_o you_o be_v such_o multitude_n shall_v etc._n etc._n i_o can_v tell_v story_n what_o some_o of_o your_o way_n have_v speak_v if_o they_o may_v not_o have_v their_o way_n but_o i_o shall_v spare_v they_o now_o the_o second_o part_n of_o your_o praise_n of_o new-england_n be_v and_o among_o they_o some_o as_o holy_a and_o judicious_a divine_n as_o this_o kingdom_n have_v breed_v that_o there_o be_v holy_a and_o good_a divine_n among_o they_o who_o i_o true_o love_v and_o honour_n i_o acknowledge_v but_o i_o judge_v this_o too_o transcendent_a a_o phrase_n and_o more_o than_o befit_v the_o word_n of_o soberness_n some_o as_o holy_a and_o judicious_a as_o this_o kingdom_n have_v breed_v it_o have_v be_v a_o expression_n high_a enough_o to_o say_v as_o holy_a and_o judicious_a divine_n as_o any_o you_o now_o know_v in_o this_o kingdom_n but_o to_o say_v as_o this_o kingdom_n have_v breed_v how_o know_v you_o that_o and_o how_o can_v you_o affirm_v it_o you_o be_v not_o acquaint_v with_o many_o who_o live_v before_o be_v all_o young_a man_n to_o speak_v of_o so_o that_o there_o may_v be_v before_o your_o time_n man_n more_o judicious_a and_o holy_a and_o if_o we_o may_v judge_v by_o the_o work_n of_o some_o man_n and_o by_o their_o life_n write_v and_o by_o the_o report_n from_o good_a hand_n of_o the_o godly_a ancient_a minister_n there_o be_v man_n more_o judicious_a and_o learned_a than_o any_o now_o in_o new_a england_n as_o whitaker_n reynolds_n brightman_n and_o other_o and_o more_o holy_a as_o mr_n greenham_n mr_n banes_n old_a mr._n dod_n etc._n etc._n but_o for_o the_o holy_a and_o judicious_a divine_n of_o new_a england_n there_o be_v not_o above_o three_o or_o four_o at_o most_o be_v ever_o account_v so_o eminent_a i_o may_v say_v but_o two_o and_o yet_o the_o present_a age_n have_v divine_n in_o england_n to_o compare_v with_o they_o both_o for_o learning_n judiciousnesse_n and_o piety_n so_o as_o you_o need_v not_o to_o have_v go_v back_o to_o the_o age_n past_a take_v the_o prime_a man_n of_o they_o all_o in_o new_a england_n and_o yet_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v account_v as_o judicious_a and_o learned_a as_o ever_o any_o this_o kingdom_n breed_v doctor_n whitaker_n never_o 177._o hold_v any_o opinion_n that_o be_v account_v erroneous_a nor_o any_o private_a peculiar_a opinion_n but_o what_o be_v common_o hold_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o it_o be_v report_v in_o his_o life_n but_o the_o most_o eminent_a minister_n in_o new-england_n though_o he_o be_v a_o excellent_a and_o worthy_a man_n have_v have_v his_o error_n and_o i_o refer_v you_o for_o proof_n to_o his_o discourse_n about_o clear_v the_o doctrine_n of_o reprobation_n which_o be_v in_o some_o of_o your_o hand_n
with_o his_o be_v deceive_v for_o a_o time_n in_o the_o business_n of_o m_n wheelwright_n and_o mistress_n hutchinson_n and_o some_o of_o those_o opinion_n about_o sanctification_n evidence_v justification_n and_o to_o some_o other_o manuscript_n and_o print_a thing_n about_o the_o churchway_n where_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n of_o wit_n and_o fancy_v more_o than_o of_o deep_a judgement_n the_o three_o part_n of_o your_o praise_n rise_v so_o high_a as_o it_o be_v hardly_o to_o be_v parallel_v the_o sincerity_n of_o they_o of_o new-england_n in_o their_o way_n restisy_v before_o all_o the_o world_n and_o will_v be_v to_o all_o generation_n to_o come_v by_o the_o great_a undertake_n but_o that_o of_o our_o father_n abraham_n out_o of_o his_o own_o country_n and_o his_o seed_n after_o he_o a_o transplant_n themselves_o many_o thousand_o mile_n distance_n and_o that_o by_o sea_n into_o a_o wilderness_n etc._n etc._n certain_o some_o independent_o then_o must_v write_v their_o chronicle_n 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know_v to_o we_o by_o their_o confession_n and_o i_o never_o know_v till_o this_o apology_n come_v forth_o that_o ever_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n be_v style_v the_o reform_a church_n as_o the_o brownist_n and_o separatist_n never_o yet_o be_v unto_o who_o yet_o the_o parenthesis_n relate_v as_o well_o as_o to_o any_o of_o the_o other_o church_n and_o for_o our_o own_o congregation_n we_o mean_v of_o england_n in_o apolog._n which_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n we_o be_v convert_v and_o exercise_v our_o ministery_n long_o to_o the_o conversion_n of_o many_o other_o we_o have_v this_o sincere_a profession_n to_o make_v before_o god_n and_o all_o the_o world_n that_o all_o that_o conscience_n of_o the_o defilement_n we_o conceive_v to_o cleave_v to_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n in_o they_o or_o of_o the_o unwarrant_v power_n in_o church_n governor_n exercise_v therein_o do_v never_o work_v in_o any_o of_o we_o any_o other_o thought_n much_o less_o opinion_n but_o 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that_o you_o express_v so_o much_o and_o act_v in_o the_o virtue_n of_o it_o nay_o even_o to_o judge_v they_o antichristian_a there_o be_v some_o passage_n in_o one_o letter_n more_o especial_o among_o other_o write_v by_o mr_n bridge_n to_o his_o love_a friend_n in_o norwich_n mr_n henry_n king_n mr_n toft_n mr_n smith_n mr_n rayner_n mr._n map_n the_o substance_n of_o which_o letter_n to_o letter_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v content_a with_o the_o ordinance_n of_o hear_v but_o to_o look_v out_o after_o the_o platform_n of_o government_n leave_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n by_o elder_n pastor_n teacher_n deacon_n and_o widow_n and_o to_o consider_v that_o every_o church_n have_v the_o power_n within_o itself_o and_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o one_o officer_n or_o to_o another_o congregation_n but_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o to_o that_o whereof_o the_o member_n be_v a_o part_n and_o then_o mr_n bridge_n fall_v upon_o episcopal_a government_n under_o which_o these_o 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what_o multitude_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o parochial_a congregation_n be_v there_o in_o england_n that_o be_v whole_o exempt_a from_o that_o government_n or_o whether_o there_o be_v any_o that_o do_v refuse_v whole_o all_o the_o order_n enjoin_v by_o that_o government_n and_o if_o so_o whether_o then_o in_o mr_n bridges_n opinion_n and_o in_o his_o letter_n all_o our_o congregation_n and_o mâ—…nisters_n be_v not_o antichristian_a in_o worship_v the_o beast_n and_o receive_v his_o mark_n let_v all_o the_o world_n and_o his_o own_o conscience_n judge_v and_o for_o further_a proof_n unto_o one_o of_o mr_n bridge_n letter_n be_v seven_o question_n annex_v and_o propound_v concern_v the_o ministry_n worship_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n assembly_n in_o england_n the_o usual_a question_n the_o brownist_n make_v i_o have_v also_o the_o copy_n of_o a_o letter_n write_v from_o mr_n simpson_n to_o a_o man_n of_o note_n in_o london_n who_o name_n out_o of_o respect_n to_o he_o i_o conceal_v the_o substance_n of_o which_o letter_n be_v to_o have_v he_o consider_v whether_o he_o may_v live_v without_o all_o the_o ordinance_n if_o they_o be_v any_o where_o to_o be_v have_v or_o live_v in_o danger_n of_o daily_a defilement_n and_o there_o be_v one_o thing_n which_o together_o with_o these_o he_o desire_v he_o to_o think_v upon_o namely_o what_o that_o state_n and_o condition_n be_v wherein_o we_o shall_v enjoy_v the_o ordinance_n we_o shall_v call_v nothing_o the_o mean_n of_o salvation_n or_o ordinance_n but_o what_o god_n have_v appoint_v to_o his_o church_n a_o church_n be_v christ_n body_n it_o consist_v of_o holy_a member_n in_o show_n at_o least_o join_v together_o to_o christ_n as_o to_o a_o head_n and_o as_o there_o be_v a_o bond_n whereby_o we_o be_v invisible_o join_v so_o be_v there_o a_o bond_n to_o he_o visible_o ceremony_n be_v nothing_o in_o regard_n
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which_o you_o say_v to_o be_v true_a that_o you_o hold_v all_o apolog._n fair_a correspondency_n with_o they_o that_o may_v be_v upon_o other_o ground_n for_o your_o own_o advantage_n and_o benefit_v many_o way_n you_o be_v stranger_n and_o they_o in_o their_o own_o country_n as_o also_o to_o see_v if_o you_o can_v gain_v any_o of_o their_o minister_n to_o your_o churchway_n and_o as_o for_o your_o receive_v some_o of_o their_o member_n unto_o communion_n in_o the_o sacrament_n that_o may_v be_v but_o to_o strengthen_v your_o own_o way_n and_o to_o advance_v that_o church-principle_n of_o receive_v they_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o relation_n of_o membership_n and_o here_o i_o desire_v to_o put_v two_o question_n to_o you_o 1._o whether_o in_o receive_v some_o member_n of_o the_o dutch_a church_n who_o desire_v to_o communicate_v with_o you_o you_o put_v they_o upon_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v member_n of_o their_o church_n and_o belong_v thereunto_o as_o you_o do_v the_o english_a who_o come_v to_o you_o 2._o though_o you_o receive_v some_o of_o they_o unto_o communion_n in_o your_o church_n whether_o any_o of_o you_o ever_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n in_o any_o of_o their_o church_n or_o in_o any_o of_o the_o english_a church_n in_o holland_n who_o be_v not_o of_o your_o way_n and_o communion_n but_o grant_v all_o you_o say_v in_o all_o your_o profession_n of_o your_o respect_n and_o hold_v communion_n with_o the_o dutch_a church_n whereby_o you_o will_v free_v yourselves_o from_o the_o imputation_n of_o separation_n and_o make_v the_o reader_n believe_v the_o brownist_n and_o you_o have_v no_o affinity_n i_o answer_v you_o say_v no_o more_o nor_o hardly_o so_o much_o as_o mr_n robinson_n write_v in_o his_o apology_n 25_o year_n since_o of_o those_o reform_a church_n page_z 10_o 11._o now_o for_o the_o way_n and_o practice_v of_o our_o church_n we_o give_v this_o brief_a and_o general_a account_n our_o public_a worship_n be_v make_v up_o of_o no_o other_o part_n then_o the_o worship_n of_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n do_v consist_v of_o as_o public_a and_o solemn_a prayer_n for_o king_n and_o all_o in_o authority_n etc._n etc._n the_o read_n the_o scripture_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n exposition_n of_o they_o as_o occasion_n be_v and_o constant_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n the_o administration_n of_o the_o two_o sacrament_n baptism_n to_o infant_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n sing_v of_o psalm_n collection_n for_o the_o poor_a etc._n etc._n every_o lord_n day_n for_o officer_n and_o public_a ruler_n in_o the_o church_n we_o set_v up_o no_o other_o but_o the_o very_a same_o which_o the_o reform_a church_n judge_v necessary_a and_o sufficient_a and_o as_o institute_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n for_o the_o perpetual_a government_n of_o his_o church_n that_o be_v pastor_n teacher_n ruling-elders_a with_o we_o not_o lay_v but_o ecclesiastic_a person_n separate_v to_o that_o service_n and_o deacon_n 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the_o church_n and_o no_o other_o sin_n to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o that_o dreadful_a sentence_n in_o this_o section_n you_o give_v we_o a_o narration_n of_o the_o way_n and_o practice_n of_o your_o church_n wherein_o in_o the_o beginning_n you_o tell_v the_o reader_n we_o give_v this_o brief_a and_o general_a account_n but_o how_o much_o better_o have_v it_o be_v and_o more_o proper_a to_o have_v give_v a_o full_a and_o particular_a account_n here_o then_o in_o your_o other_o part_n about_o new-england_n and_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o holland_n a_o full_a and_o particular_a account_n of_o the_o way_n and_o practice_n of_o your_o church_n have_v answer_v more_o the_o nature_n of_o such_o a_o narration_n and_o will_v have_v satisfy_v all_o man_n but_o why_o do_v you_o in_o the_o most_o material_a part_n give_v such_o a_o brief_a and_o general_a account_n know_v that_o under_o brevity_n and_o generality_n there_o lie_v much_o mistake_n and_o deceit_n and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o 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bridge_n inform_v i_o and_o of_o the_o exercise_v of_o prophecy_n in_o mr_n sympson_n church_n at_o rotterdam_n as_o well_o as_o at_o arnheim_n i_o can_v out_o of_o manuscript_n produce_v how_o argument_n be_v frame_v to_o draw_v away_o people_n from_o our_o church_n upon_o this_o ground_n as_o be_v defective_a in_o some_o ordinance_n namely_o prophesy_v and_o beside_o prophesy_v i_o propound_v it_o to_o you_o whether_o some_o of_o you_o have_v not_o hold_v out_o some_o other_o public_a worship_n than_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v namely_o hymn_n and_o anoint_v the_o sick_a member_n of_o the_o church_n with_o oil_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o little_a before_o your_o come_n over_o into_o england_n some_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n do_v not_o propound_v the_o holy_a kiss_n or_o the_o kiss_n of_o love_n to_o be_v practise_v by_o church-member_n nay_o whether_o by_o some_o person_n in_o that_o church_n be_v it_o not_o begin_v to_o be_v use_v and_o practise_v and_o in_o 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shall_v have_v lay_v down_o particular_o as_o wherein_o and_o how_o far_o you_o agree_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o also_o wherein_o you_o depart_v from_o they_o namely_o you_o shall_v have_v show_v in_o what_o you_o practise_v more_o than_o they_o do_v and_o wherein_o you_o practise_v short_a of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o thing_n you_o practise_v with_o they_o yet_o how_o you_o differ_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o they_o but_o to_o return_v to_o that_o of_o censure_n reform_a church_n practice_v beside_o admonition_n and_o before_o they_o come_v to_o excommunication_n that_o which_o be_v call_v by_o divine_n abstentio_fw-la à _fw-la sacracaena_fw-la but_o you_o do_v not_o so_o but_o conceal_v this_o but_o brethren_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o practice_v this_o especial_o consider_v how_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n the_o church_n be_v to_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n every_o lord_n day_n now_o suppose_v some_o member_n commit_v a_o great_a sin_n on_o the_o saturday_n which_o though_o come_n it_o be_v know_v to_o the_o minister_n or_o elder_n and_o some_o of_o the_o people_n either_o there_o may_v be_v no_o time_n to_o call_v the_o church_n to_o admonish_v the_o party_n or_o if_o there_o be_v for_o admonition_n yet_o not_o time_n sufficient_a for_o the_o party_n to_o testify_v repentance_n and_o yet_o the_o person_n may_v not_o be_v judge_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a as_o to_o be_v excommunicate_v but_o the_o person_n offend_v will_v come_v now_o to_o the_o lord_n table_n in_o the_o interim_n what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n and_o further_o the_o reform_a church_n enjoin_v the_o censure_n of_o open_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o practice_v deposition_n of_o officer_n from_o their_o place_n which_o may_v just_o arise_v upon_o some_o case_n and_o yet_o not_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o proceed_v unto_o excommunication_n as_o yourselves_o practise_v in_o m._n ward_n case_n never_o proceed_v to_o give_v he_o up_o to_o satan_n but_o how_o 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practice_n what_o do_v you_o judge_v be_v it_o not_o to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n then_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n what_o if_o man_n practise_v polygamy_n profane_v the_o lord_n day_n by_o use_v it_o as_o they_o do_v any_o other_o day_n what_o if_o they_o do_v hold_v and_o according_o will_v have_v practise_v community_n of_o good_n among_o believer_n what_o if_o they_o maintain_v that_o christian_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v magistrate_n all_o which_o be_v not_o condemn_v in_o all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n especial_o if_o some_o church_n may_v be_v take_v for_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o believe_v by_o your_o manner_n of_o expression_n you_o include_v such_o neither_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n but_o rather_o be_v practise_v upon_o new_a light_n and_o as_o new_a truth_n and_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o in_o 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church_n allow_v particular_a congregation_n such_o a_o entire_a and_o complete_a power_n to_o be_v exercise_v by_o the_o elder_n within_o themselves_o and_o wherein_o not_o such_o a_o particular_a narration_n will_v have_v carry_v in_o the_o face_n of_o it_o some_o ground_n for_o the_o defference_n of_o their_o practice_n and_o allowance_n &_o may_v have_v serve_v to_o have_v point_v out_o the_o difference_n between_o your_o way_n and_o they_o but_o second_o as_o you_o relate_v the_o way_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n it_o sound_v somewhat_o harsh_a and_o strange_a that_o their_o practice_n shall_v be_v one_o way_n and_o their_o judgement_n another_o their_o practice_n to_o govern_v each_o particular_a congregation_n by_o a_o combine_a presbytery_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o several_a congregation_n unite_v in_o one_o for_o government_n and_o yet_o in_o their_o judgement_n to_o allow_v especial_o in_o some_o case_n a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o entire_a and_o 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those_o congregation_n in_o all_o weighty_a matter_n and_o great_a case_n that_o fall_v out_o those_o precept_n of_o obey_v your_o elder_n and_o they_o that_o be_v over_o you_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o elder_n as_o well_o as_o to_o those_o that_o particular_o and_o ordinary_o preach_v to_o they_o and_o however_o it_o be_v true_a such_o place_n be_v especial_o understand_v of_o they_o yet_o not_o of_o they_o only_o and_o alone_o as_o exclude_v other_o as_o your_o argument_n carry_v it_o but_z including_z other_o who_o be_v over_o they_o too_o and_o to_o answer_v you_o by_o your_o own_o instance_n give_v of_o servant_n obey_v your_o own_o governor_n as_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o text_n particular_a servant_n be_v to_o obey_v their_o own_o master_n so_o by_o the_o same_o text_n each_o particular_a servant_n and_o all_o of_o they_o together_o of_o such_o a_o company_n and_o hall_n in_o the_o thing_n and_o rule_n of_o their_o call_n for_o the_o public_a good_a of_o that_o society_n they_o 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the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o by_o some_o church_n from_o beyond_o the_o 25._o sea_n in_o their_o letter_n upon_o occasion_n of_o your_o apology_n 4._o it_o be_v a_o fallacious_a way_n of_o reason_v from_o the_o economical_a relation_n and_o government_n of_o husband_n over_o wife_n and_o father_n over_o child_n and_o master_n over_o servant_n and_o their_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n etc._n etc._n unto_o the_o ecclesiastical_a and_o political_a because_o it_o be_v not_o to_o speak_v ad_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o in_o each_o of_o these_o the_o way_n of_o government_n be_v different_a for_o instance_n in_o those_o economical_a relation_n a_o woman_n can_v have_v but_o one_o husband_n one_o man_n can_v be_v but_o her_o husband_n and_o one_o man_n a_o father_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o child_n can_v pelinquish_v they_o diâ—…avow_v they_o though_o very_o bad_a nor_o deny_v those_o duty_n they_o owe_v they_o in_o those_o relation_n though_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n but_o they_o be_v to_o obey_v they_o which_o yet_o hold_v not_o in_o the_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n to_o elder_n and_o minister_n that_o be_v unworthy_a and_o excommunicate_v that_o the_o member_n must_v be_v subject_a to_o they_o the_o royalist_n that_o argue_v so_o from_o that_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o child_n owe_v their_o father_n to_o subject_n subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o prince_n and_o the_o hierarchicall_a man_n that_o argue_v from_o what_o child_n owe_v to_o natural_a parent_n though_o wicked_a and_o ungodly_a to_o what_o the_o people_n owe_v to_o wicked_a minister_n be_v answer_v at_o large_a and_o you_o know_v what_o mr_n robinson_n and_o many_o of_o your_o way_n say_v to_o that_o now_o the_o same_o will_v serve_v to_o answer_v your_o comparison_n that_o the_o place_n hold_v not_o alike_o between_o the_o people_n and_o the_o elder_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o their_o husband_n mr_n baynes_n answer_v in_o the_o last_o page_n of_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n that_o which_o be_v object_v touch_v pastor_n and_o father_n that_o the_o similitude_n hold_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v absolute_o parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v they_o good_a or_o evil_a but_o spiritual_a parent_n be_v no_o long_o so_o than_o they_o do_v according_o behave_v themselves_o 5._o the_o very_a instance_n you_o give_v of_o wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n and_o servant_n your_o own_o governor_n do_v not_o therefore_o only_o tie_v they_o to_o civil_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n and_o master_n exempt_n they_o from_o subjection_n to_o any_o other_o but_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o to_o common-lawe_n notwithstanding_o so_o neither_o do_v the_o scripture_n obey_v your_o elder_n etc._n etc._n suppose_v the_o full_a latitude_n of_o those_o scripture_n be_v of_o the_o elder_n of_o particular_a congregation_n forbid_v or_o exempt_a man_n from_o that_o ecclesiastical_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o concern_v they_o as_o they_o stand_v in_o relation_n to_o the_o community_n to_o the_o three_o reason_n hint_v for_o yourselves_o and_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o the_o elder_n of_o other_o congregation_n shall_v have_v power_n and_o rule_v over_o church_n which_o they_o do_v not_o teach_v and_o feed_v ordinary_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n be_v to_o you_o a_o question_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v suppose_v three_o or_o four_o congregation_n in_o one_o great_a town_n shall_v have_v minister_n in_o common_a to_o teach_v and_o feed_v they_o ordinary_o as_o in_o holland_n will_v you_o in_o such_o a_o case_n yield_v to_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n if_o you_o say_v you_o will_v than_o the_o case_n be_v determine_v for_o we_o and_o thus_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o primitive_a church_n but_o if_o you_o answer_v you_o will_v not_o yield_v to_o such_o a_o classical_a government_n than_o i_o reply_v it_o be_v not_o for_o want_v of_o such_o minister_n teach_v you_o and_o feed_v ordinary_o that_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v but_o upon_o some_o other_o ground_n and_o then_o this_o argument_n be_v lose_v second_o i_o answer_v your_o roll_a elder_n do_v not_o feed_v nor_o teach_v you_o ordinary_o but_o only_o govern_v you_o and_o yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n you_o obey_v they_o and_o be_v subject_a to_o they_o so_o that_o this_o be_v no_o good_a argument_n against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o have_v power_n and_o authority_n over_o those_o who_o man_n teach_v not_o ordinary_o for_o than_o what_o become_v of_o the_o rule_v elder_n in_o the_o church_n who_o be_v neither_o pastor_n nor_o teacher_n to_o the_o four_o reason_n draw_v from_o corporation_n who_o have_v the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o which_o kind_n of_o power_n you_o will_v have_v i_o answer_v you_o can_v frame_v a_o good_a argunment_n from_o corporation_n and_o civil_a power_n to_o body_n ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o i_o may_v give_v you_o the_o many_o difference_n allege_v by_o yourselves_o between_o civil_a power_n and_o ecclesiastical_a and_o the_o different_a manner_n of_o dispensation_n but_o i_o must_v not_o enlarge_v here_o only_o refer_v you_o for_o this_o to_o separat_fw-la mr_n robinson_n church_n mr_n burrough_n and_o theol._n dr_n ames_n 2._o corporation_n go_v according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o to_o their_o charter_n agree_v upon_o and_o make_v in_o parliament_n they_o make_v not_o themselves_o a_o corporation_n nor_o go_v not_o according_a to_o private_a rule_n and_o order_n to_o pass_v sentence_n of_o death_n etc._n etc._n but_o be_v rule_v though_o they_o have_v officer_n as_o major_a and_o alderman_n by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o so_o go_v they_o may_v more_o safe_o have_v a_o power_n within_o themselves_o but_o your_o particular_a congregation_n set_v up_o yourselves_o without_o leave_n of_o magistrate_n or_o minister_n not_o proceed_v upon_o common_a rule_n of_o government_n in_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n agree_v by_o synod_n but_o only_o upon_o your_o own_o will_n and_o private_a rule_n which_o you_o have_v fancy_v be_v lay_v down_o in_o scripture_n 3._o corporation_n though_o they_o judge_v their_o member_n and_o pass_v sentence_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o yet_o sometime_o nay_o often_o in_o great_a case_n and_o offence_n their_o inhabitant_n be_v try_v and_o sentence_n pass_v upon_o they_o in_o other_o court_n of_o justice_n and_o that_o when_o they_o will_v proceed_v against_o they_o yet_o the_o matter_n be_v carry_v high_a to_o be_v try_v if_o you_o will_v grant_v this_o in_o the_o corporation_n to_o your_o congregation_n that_o assembly_n and_o synod_n may_v judge_v and_o pass_v sentence_n upon_o your_o member_n as_o oft_o
as_o they_o see_v just_a ground_n the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n 4._o the_o corporation_n that_o be_v those_o in_o place_n and_o power_n if_o they_o proceed_v unjust_o be_v accountable_a to_o the_o state_n they_o live_v in_o that_o be_v to_o a_o high_a civil_a power_n and_o adjudge_v themselves_o in_o case_n of_o wrong_n condemn_v the_o innocent_a suffer_v delinquent_n to_o escape_n but_o your_o corporation_n of_o particular_a congregation_n even_o in_o case_n of_o real_a administration_n be_v against_o all_o judge_a and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n out_o of_o your_o own_o congregation_n to_o the_o five_o reason_n hint_v by_o you_o to_o strengthen_v your_o practice_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a and_o allow_v and_o the_o reform_a church_n more_o questionable_a namely_o appeal_n to_o they_o who_o have_v read_v book_n whether_o much_o have_v be_v write_v with_o strength_n set_o and_o direct_o to_o prove_v that_o government_n but_o rather_o to_o overthrow_v episcopal_a and_o to_o maintain_v those_o several_a officer_n in_o church_n which_o christ_n have_v institute_v and_o therefore_o you_o infer_v you_o may_v have_v more_o ground_n to_o question_v this_o government_n of_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n i_o answer_v the_o ground_n of_o that_o be_v full_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n page_n 17_o and_o 18._o with_o a_o account_n of_o what_o have_v be_v write_v and_o do_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n for_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n and_o against_o the_o popular_a independent_a way_n which_o be_v more_o than_o you_o once_o in_o this_o reason_n hint_v but_o suppose_v that_o in_o former_a write_n of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n danaeus_n junius_n zeppâ—…rus_n gersom_a bucerus_n dr_n reynolds_n parker_n there_o have_v not_o be_v much_o set_o and_o direct_o insist_v on_o and_o with_o strength_n to_o prove_v the_o government_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o in_o some_o of_o these_o more_o especial_o as_o against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o episcopal_a government_n much_o strength_n be_v bring_v for_o the_o government_n by_o synod_n and_o class_n yet_o that_o which_o those_o divine_n of_o scotland_n holland_n england_n have_v write_v of_o late_a against_o the_o independent_a congregationall_a government_n may_v have_v be_v enough_o to_o have_v satisfy_v you_o and_o that_o be_v not_o material_a that_o no_o more_o have_v write_v see_v out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o two_o or_o three_o witness_n every_o word_n shall_v be_v establish_v and_o if_o these_o book_n have_v not_o strength_n to_o satisfy_v you_o why_o have_v not_o you_o all_o this_o while_n answer_v they_o but_o i_o must_v mind_v you_o of_o forget_v one_o of_o your_o own_o divine_n for_o beside_o the_o learned_a licensers_n book_n against_o independency_n another_o book_n be_v write_v call_v reason_n against_o the_o independent_a government_n of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o toleration_n of_o they_o in_o this_o kingdom_n which_o book_n in_o your_o seem_a to_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o i_o believe_v you_o remember_v above_o the_o rest_n and_o in_o the_o 25_o page_n of_o your_o apology_n it_o appear_v you_o remember_v it_o but_o the_o author_n of_o it_o belike_o be_v none_o of_o your_o divine_n and_o in_o the_o close_a now_o of_o this_o answer_n to_o your_o reason_n hint_v about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n why_o you_o in_o your_o congregationall_a way_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o truth_n but_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v a_o question_n to_o you_o and_o judge_v a_o additament_n because_o the_o presbyterian_o allow_v you_o what_o you_o practise_v and_o grant_v what_o you_o hold_v but_o themselves_o hold_v and_o practise_v over_o and_o above_o i_o answer_v this_o be_v no_o argument_n at_o all_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o samaritan_n shall_v have_v worship_v god_n true_o but_o the_o 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to_o
be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o for_o our_o part_n we_o see_v not_o then_o nor_o do_v yet_o see_v and_o likewise_o we_o do_v then_o suppose_v and_o do_v yet_o that_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o other_o church_n offend_v together_o with_o this_o other_o that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v final_o offend_v to_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o withdraw_n from_o they_o while_o impenitent_a ac_fw-la unworthy_a to_o hold_v forth_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n these_o principle_n be_v receive_v and_o general_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v a_o mutual_a duty_n as_o strict_o enjoin_v they_o by_o christ_n as_o any_o other_o that_o these_o will_v be_v as_o effectual_a mean_n through_o the_o blessing_n of_o christ_n to_o awe_v and_o preserve_v church_n and_o their_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n as_o that_o other_o of_o claim_n to_o 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or_o any_o other_o whosoever_o offend_v of_o what_o they_o can_v give_v in_o charge_n against_o their_o proceed_n in_o that_o deposition_n of_o their_o minister_n and_o to_o subject_n themselves_o to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o review_v of_o all_o those_o forepast_a carriage_n that_o concern_v that_o particular_a which_o they_o most_o cheerful_o and_o ready_o according_a to_o the_o forementioned_a principle_n submit_v unto_o in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v they_o thereunto_o and_o according_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n offend_v with_o other_o two_o gentleman_n of_o much_o worth_n wisdom_n and_o piety_n member_n thereof_o be_v send_v as_o messenger_n from_o that_o church_n and_o at_o the_o introduction_n and_o entrance_v into_o that_o solemn_a assembly_n the_o solemnity_n of_o which_o have_v leave_v as_o deep_a a_o impression_n upon_o our_o 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independent_a liberty_n that_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o then_o when_o we_o have_v least_o dependency_n on_o this_o kingdom_n or_o so_o much_o as_o hope_n ever_o to_o abide_v therein_o in_o peace_n and_o for_o the_o issue_n and_o success_n of_o this_o agitation_n after_o there_o have_v be_v for_o many_o day_n as_o judiciary_n and_o full_a a_o charge_n trial_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n open_o afore_o all_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n as_o can_v be_v expect_v in_o any_o court_n where_o authority_n enjoin_v it_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v do_v as_o public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinful_a aberration_n in_o it_o restore_v their_o minister_n to_o his_o place_n again_o and_o order_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o afore_o god_n and_o man_n for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n in_o it_o and_o the_o party_n also_o which_o have_v be_v depose_v do_v acknowledge_v to_o that_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v contain_v the_o four_o and_o five_o of_o those_o five_o forementioned_a head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o i_o shall_v answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v upon_o your_o three_o and_o last_o instance_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n in_o the_o church_n the_o scope_n of_o which_o four_o head_n be_v to_o answer_v and_o take_v off_o a_o common_a objection_n bring_v against_o your_o way_n the_o strength_n of_o which_o answer_n be_v make_v up_o of_o those_o part_n and_o stand_v in_o these_o particular_n first_o in_o lay_v down_o your_o own_o principle_n which_o you_o hold_v in_o such_o a_o case_n second_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o those_o principle_n occasion_v upon_o a_o offence_n commit_v in_o one_o of_o your_o church_n which_o story_n you_o brief_o relate_v three_o the_o success_n and_o effectualness_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o your_o principle_n illustrate_v by_o a_o instance_n now_o for_o that_o common_a
exception_n lay_v into_o all_o man_n thought_n against_o your_o congregationall_a way_n it_o be_v both_o a_o just_a and_o strong_a argument_n against_o it_o and_o that_o which_o many_o of_o your_o way_n when_o it_o have_v be_v object_v to_o they_o have_v confess_v there_o be_v no_o remedy_n nor_o help_v in_o such_o case_n but_o advice_n and_o counsel_n all_o must_v be_v leave_v to_o christ_n christ_n will_v take_v care_n of_o his_o own_o way_n they_o have_v not_o find_v out_o this_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n which_o you_o have_v here_o propound_v but_o i_o shall_v labour_v to_o make_v evident_a that_o all_o you_o bring_v by_o way_n of_o answer_n in_o declaration_n of_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n do_v not_o satisfy_v this_o objection_n and_o first_o for_o your_o judgement_n in_o the_o principle_n you_o hold_v and_o lie_v down_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v no_o scripture_n ground_n nor_o primitive_a pattern_n for_o such_o principle_n and_o such_o a_o way_n in_o such_o case_n second_o beside_o that_o these_o principle_n have_v no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n and_o so_o they_o be_v no_o allow_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n nor_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n nor_o powerful_a effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o first_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v wise_a man_n that_o in_o such_o a_o point_n as_o this_o be_v the_o main_a point_n of_o difference_n between_o you_o and_o the_o presbterians_n and_o at_o such_o a_o time_n as_o this_o you_o will_v bring_v the_o strong_a scripture_n and_o ground_n you_o have_v for_o your_o sacred_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n to_o be_v observe_v among_o all_o church_n namely_o of_o submission_n of_o churchrs_n and_o for_o that_o other_o principle_n of_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o 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for_o it_o and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o contend_v for_o such_o a_o government_n wherein_o yourselves_o can_v deny_v but_o have_v fall_v out_o strange_a miscarriage_n and_o you_o tell_v we_o a_o unhappy_a story_n for_o proof_n and_o yet_o the_o way_n and_o course_n you_o have_v substitute_v for_o remedy_n have_v neither_o example_n nor_o precept_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o practice_v any_o title_n of_o all_o that_o you_o relate_v to_o we_o and_o beside_o that_o the_o course_n prescribe_v by_o you_o be_v not_o command_v in_o the_o word_n it_o be_v no_o whit_n so_o rational_a nor_o conducible_a to_o the_o end_v you_o appoint_v it_o for_o as_o we_o will_v show_v present_o now_o for_o the_o scripture_n bring_v by_o you_o the_o first_o be_v 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o give_v none_o offence_n neither_o to_o the_o jew_n nor_o to_o the_o gentile_n nor_o to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n where_o first_o the_o reader_n may_v observe_v you_o alter_v the_o text_n put_v church_n of_o god_n instead_o of_o church_n of_o god_n and_o than_o you_o add_v they_o live_v among_o the_o alteration_n i_o suppose_v you_o make_v upon_o this_o ground_n for_o fear_v this_o text_n in_o the_o read_n of_o it_o shall_v hint_n that_o truth_n how_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o scripture_n be_v take_v for_o more_o than_o one_o particular_a congregation_n the_o addition_n they_o live_v among_o to_o make_v it_o a_o seem_a ground_n for_o church_n in_o a_o vicinity_n whereas_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n general_o all_o the_o church_n whether_o we_o live_v among_o they_o or_o far_o from_o they_o and_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o this_o place_n be_v upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o that_o particular_a offence_n which_o may_v arise_v to_o some_o corinthian_n from_o eat_v meat_n sacrifice_v to_o idol_n have_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o be_v sacrifice_v to_o idol_n to_o lay_v down_o a_o general_a rule_n to_o all_o christian_n against_o give_v offence_n to_o any_o whether_o jew_n gentile_n or_o christian_n under_o which_o three_o rank_n all_o man_n then_o in_o those_o time_n be_v comprehend_v now_o pray_v tell_v i_o how_o will_v you_o make_v this_o text_n to_o prove_v that_o church_n offend_v and_o dister_v among_o themselves_o must_v submit_v themselves_o to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n of_o other_o neighbour_n church_n offend_v and_o how_o will_v you_o from_o this_o place_n draw_v ouâ—…_n a_o power_n for_o neighbour_n church_n to_o send_v unto_o and_o require_v this_o of_o the_o church_n who_o have_v offend_v they_o this_o scripture_n if_o all_o interpreter_n understand_v it_o that_o i_o have_v consult_v with_o lay_v down_o a_o rule_n that_o every_o particular_a christian_a and_o so_o all_o christian_n must_v so_o walk_v as_o to_o become_v all_o thing_n to_o all_o man_n to_o please_v all_o man_n in_o all_o thing_n lawful_a as_o the_o 33_o verse_n interpret_v it_o and_o to_o give_v none_o offence_n but_o where_o do_v this_o scripture_n speak_v and_o how_o do_v it_o affirm_v that_o if_o either_o church_n or_o particular_a christian_n do_v practice_v thing_n that_o offend_v other_o church_n they_o who_o be_v offend_v have_v power_n and_o authority_n to_o send_v to_o they_o and_o to_o call_v they_o to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n and_o that_o such_o who_o be_v challenge_v to_o offend_v must_v submit_v to_o such_o a_o judicial_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n in_o this_o text_n there_o be_v no_o more_o say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n then_o of_o the_o jew_n and_o gentile_n who_o must_v not_o be_v offend_v neither_o and_o will_v you_o allow_v jew_n and_o gentile_n offend_v by_o thing_n do_v in_o your_o church_n to_o call_v your_o church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o you_o must_v submit_v this_o text_n reach_v to_o church_n that_o live_v in_o other_o country_n and_o unto_o particular_a christian_n though_o they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o such_o institute_v church_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o so_o that_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o text_n we_o ought_v to_o give_v they_o no_o offence_n but_o will_v you_o grant_v that_o church_n of_o other_o country_n and_o kingdom_n may_v call_v church_n in_o another_o kingdom_n to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n and_o send_v their_o messenger_n to_o question_v they_o and_o thereupon_o pronounce_v sentence_n of_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o or_o that_o every_o particular_a man_n offend_v may_v call_v church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o hear_v and_o trial_n i_o will_v give_v you_o one_o instance_n i_o be_o much_o offend_v at_o the_o great_a rent_n and_o difference_n that_o be_v betwixt_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n and_o at_o mr_n simpson_n set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o great_a bitterness_n betwixt_o those_o church_n and_o i_o be_o much_o offend_v at_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n for_o let_v pass_v that_o schism_n and_o all_o those_o difference_n never_o question_v it_o especial_o question_v mr_n bridge_n church_n now_o have_v i_o a_o power_n by_o virtue_n of_o this_o precept_n to_o call_v both_o you_o and_o your_o church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o to_o require_v of_o you_o a_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n and_o be_v you_o bind_v to_o submit_v to_o it_o answer_v i_o this_o question_n in_o your_o reply_n and_o you_o shall_v see_v what_o i_o will_v say_v to_o you_o in_o my_o rejoinder_n for_o that_o other_o scripture_n 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o othâ—…_n man_n sin_n that_o be_v speak_v to_o timothy_n in_o regard_n of_o his_o authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o chapter_n and_o the_o immediate_a precedent_a word_n show_v
which_o be_v not_o your_o case_n deny_v authoritative_a power_n but_o if_o you_o say_v this_o text_n be_v mean_v secondary_o of_o all_o church_n and_o christian_n though_o they_o have_v not_o authoritative_a power_n i_o grant_v it_o but_o than_o it_o be_v in_o way_n suitable_a which_o the_o word_n of_o god_n give_v warrant_n and_o allowance_n for_o as_o in_o reprove_v mourn_a for_o the_o sin_n etc._n etc._n which_o must_v be_v show_v in_o some_o other_o scripture_n for_o else_o the_o presbyterian_o may_v pretend_v by_o virtue_n of_o this_o text_n that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n that_o they_o may_v censure_v depose_v excommunicate_a member_n of_o other_o church_n who_o be_v suffer_v to_o go_v on_o in_o sin_n better_a than_o you_o can_v draw_v from_o this_o text_n that_o you_o may_v call_v not_o only_o particular_a member_n but_o whole_a church_n to_o a_o account_n examine_v they_o and_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o they_o but_o in_o a_o word_n brother_n let_v i_o tell_v you_o if_o such_o general_a text_n as_o these_o that_o may_v be_v apply_v to_o any_o course_n and_o way_n conceive_v by_o man_n in_o their_o own_o brain_n to_o hinder_v sin_n and_o reduce_v from_o offence_n will_v serve_v turn_n for_o church_n government_n and_o for_o remedy_n to_o reduce_v church_n than_o we_o can_v give_v you_o beside_o your_o own_o two_o text_n quote_v here_o for_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o non-communion_n many_o other_o such_o and_o more_o probable_a too_o for_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o sinod_n as_o that_o in_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 22._o and_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o prophet_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o prophet_n but_o we_o be_v not_o so_o hard_o put_v to_o it_o there_o be_v particular_a instance_n and_o example_n if_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o answer_n to_o such_o a_o narration_n will_v permit_v i_o to_o insist_v at_o large_a that_o prove_v the_o point_n in_o difference_n namely_o of_o act_n of_o power_n exercise_v by_o church_n in_o common_a as_o in_o election_n determination_n and_o imposition_n upon_o difference_n and_o controversy_n as_o act_n 15._o 2._o 4_o 6_o 7_o 13_o 22_o 23_o 24_o 28_o 29._o act_n 16._o 4_o 5._o 2_o corinih_n 8._o 18_o 19_o but_o let_v the_o indifferent_a reader_n judge_v by_o this_o which_o have_v be_v say_v whether_o the_o reform_a church_n or_o the_o independent_a practice_n most_o safe_o there_o be_v a_o ground_n as_o yourselves_o confess_v for_o the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n such_o a_o sentence_n you_o acknowledge_v in_o particular_a church_n and_o practice_v it_o and_o such_o a_o sentence_n have_v be_v decree_v and_o pass_v upon_o member_n of_o church_n by_o those_o who_o be_v not_o member_n of_o those_o church_n as_o the_o scripture_n be_v clear_a for_o it_o 1_o tim._n 1._o 19_o 20._o but_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n it_o be_v not_o grant_v that_o the_o scripture_n give_v any_o ground_n of_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o whole_a church_n or_o do_v allow_v any_o such_o practice_n of_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n unto_o all_o church_n against_o whole_a church_n this_o i_o utter_o deny_v and_o your_o scripture_n prove_v they_o not_o and_o i_o wonder_v how_o you_o dare_v call_v it_o the_o command_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n as_o you_o do_v in_o page_n 18_o 19_o and_o brethren_n beside_o that_o the_o scripture_n give_v neither_o precept_n nor_o example_n for_o your_o way_n of_o non-communion_n consider_v whether_o the_o scripture_n give_v not_o ground_n rather_o to_o the_o contrary_a namely_o against_o a_o particular_a church_n withdraw_v and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o whole_a church_n upon_o a_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n for_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o may_v not_o such_o a_o church_n or_o church_n be_v true_a church_n for_o all_o this_o continue_v in_o their_o office_n upon_o mistake_a partiality_n and_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o light_a a_o particular_a church_n can_v give_v they_o be_v unsatisfied_a now_o if_o a_o particular_a man_n may_v not_o separate_v nor_o withdraw_v christian_a communion_n from_o a_o true_a church_n though_o upon_o his_o counsel_n and_o advise_v she_o redress_v not_o but_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n then_o for_o one_o church_n upon_o counsel_n and_o advice_n give_v to_o more_o church_n though_o not_o take_v to_o separate_v formal_o from_o many_o church_n by_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n can_v be_v justify_v paul_n do_v not_o renounce_v nor_o cast-off_a church_n for_o many_o thing_n amiss_o though_o upon_o his_o counsel_n they_o be_v not_o mend_v as_o appear_v in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n that_o have_v be_v twice_o admonish_v 2_o cor._n 13._o 1_o 2._o and_o â—…t_a repent_v not_o and_o now_o paul_n do_v it_o the_o three_o time_n and_o yet_o refuse_v paul_n counsel_n and_o power_n be_v so_o infallible_a and_o authoritative_a deserve_v more_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n than_o the_o often_o reject_v the_o counsel_n and_o power_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n can_v do_v but_o i_o will_v answer_v you_o in_o your_o own_o language_n that_o your_o sacred_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o church_n offend_v to_o pronounce_v the_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o church_n offend_v and_o of_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a with_o your_o own_o practice_n express_v in_o the_o 20_o and_o 21._o page_n be_v to_o i_o apocriphâ—…_n and_o judge_v it_o to_o be_v a_o additament_n which_o therefore_o rest_v on_o you_o who_o allow_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n to_o make_v evident_a and_o demonstrate_v that_o of_o non-communion_n protestation_n declaration_n etc._n etc._n and_o thus_o it_o often_o fall_v out_o whilst_o man_n will_v oppose_v that_o which_o have_v long_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n upon_o pretence_n of_o the_o want_n of_o scripture_n ground_n and_o bring_v in_o new_a way_n they_o practise_v novelty_n upon_o less_o ground_n and_o foundation_n from_o scripture_n than_o they_o reject_v the_o old_a as_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o this_o instance_n 2._o as_o these_o principle_n of_o yourâ—…_n have_v no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n so_o it_o will_v appear_v they_o be_v no_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n and_o evil_n which_o fall_v out_o in_o particular_a church_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o complete_a and_o entire_a power_n within_o themselves_o first_o because_o there_o be_v more_o act_n of_o power_n then_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o the_o instance_n you_o give_v upon_o it_o reach_v unto_o so_o that_o grant_v all_o you_o say_v of_o it_o yet_o it_o will_v but_o reach_v to_o that_o particular_a case_n or_o some_o such_o like_a case_n but_o will_v be_v no_o way_n sufficient_a either_o for_o prevent_v or_o remedy_v other_o evil_n and_o mischief_n which_o dâ—…e_v and_o will_v arise_v upon_o a_o congregationall_a government_n thus_o entire_a within_o itself_o so_o that_o here_o lie_v the_o fallacy_n in_o the_o question_n between_o you_o and_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o point_n of_o government_n you_o speak_v to_o some_o point_n of_o government_n but_o not_o to_o all_o and_o instead_o of_o lay_v down_o principle_n that_o shall_v answer_v all_o case_n they_o only_o serve_v but_o to_o some_o and_o so_o your_o principle_n that_o shall_v be_v simpliciter_fw-la be_v only_o secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la for_o in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v many_o other_o act_n of_o power_n as_o of_o make_v and_o ordain_v minister_n of_o receive_v in_o member_n of_o agree_v upon_o a_o government_n doctrine_n and_o worship_n etc._n etc._n which_o this_o full_a complete_a entire_a power_n of_o particular_a congregation_n take_v upon_o they_o to_o do_v of_o which_o many_o great_a mischief_n do_v arise_v and_o be_v like_o error_n in_o the_o first_o concoction_n which_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n reach_v not_o unto_o nor_o do_v not_o help_v but_o second_o beside_o this_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o the_o other_o church_n offend_v with_o that_o practice_n of_o church_n final_o offend_v to_o denounce_v such_o a_o senâ—…ence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v not_o answer_v the_o case_n allege_v in_o heresy_n schism_n or_o person_n injure_v nor_o be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a remedy_n like_o that_o of_o combination_n of_o elder_n and_o for_o the_o make_v good_a of_o that_o i_o shall_v examine_v the_o way_n and_o course_n prescribe_v by_o you_o in_o your_o principle_n here_o lay_v down_o of_o submission_n non-communion_n declaration_n and_o protestation_n and_o
though_o as_o come_v out_o in_o such_o a_o juncture_n of_o time_n wherein_o the_o strife_n be_v between_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o independent_a for_o preeminence_n and_o come_v from_o so_o many_o head_n lay_v together_o it_o can_v be_v imagine_v but_o it_o shall_v come_v forth_o double_o refine_v and_o in_o the_o most_o plausible_a advantageous_a way_n and_o in_o the_o best_a edition_n that_o it_o be_v possible_a such_o wit_n and_o so_o many_o can_v set_v it_o out_o in_o a_o utopia_n indeed_o rather_o than_o what_o it_o can_v be_v in_o common_a practice_n this_o be_v the_o three_o edition_n the_o first_o that_o of_o the_o brownist_n the_o second_o of_o new-england_n and_o now_o this_o the_o three_o yet_o the_o reader_n may_v observe_v into_o what_o uncertainty_n labirinth_n tediousness_n delay_n nay_o absurdity_n and_o contrariety_n these_o principle_n do_v lead_v they_o that_o follow_v they_o 1._o whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n each_o part_n and_o every_o particular_a be_v rule_v by_o the_o whole_a and_o in_o common_a the_o less_o by_o the_o great_a in_o your_o way_n a_o equal_a part_n must_v take_v upon_o they_o cognizance_n and_o call_v to_o a_o account_n a_o equal_a 2._o not_o only_o so_o but_o suppose_v two_o or_o three_o church_n fall_v out_o and_o have_v a_o difference_n among_o themselves_o and_o there_o be_v but_o one_o church_n free_a who_o yet_o be_v offend_v at_o the_o other_o than_o one_o must_v order_v two_o or_o three_o the_o less_o the_o great_a and_o what_o a_o rule_n be_v this_o 3._o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n be_v voluntary_a among_o the_o church_n we_o may_v well_o suppose_v sometime_o the_o church_n challenge_v to_o offend_v or_o differ_v will_v submit_v and_o sometime_o they_o will_v not_o or_o at_o least_o not_o yet_o and_o when_o they_o know_v themselves_o faulty_a they_o may_v pretend_v many_o thing_n to_o put_v it_o off_o and_o to_o delay_v the_o time_n which_o time_n will_v be_v both_o very_a prejudicial_a to_o the_o person_n wrong_v and_o to_o the_o spread_a of_o the_o heresy_n and_o schism_n and_o if_o by_o delay_n they_o see_v they_o can_v have_v their_o end_n what_o if_o for_o all_o their_o principle_n of_o submission_n they_o fly_v of_o and_o refuse_v to_o yield_v to_o such_o a_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n and_o shall_v deny_v other_o church_n that_o power_n of_o examine_v depose_v witnesseâ—…_n etc._n etc._n upon_o pretence_n of_o conscience_n that_o there_o be_v no_o primitive_a pattern_n for_o it_o as_o you_o do_v deny_v the_o power_n of_o determination_n and_o imposition_n how_o will_v you_o bring_v they_o to_o it_o whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n time_n of_o meeting_n be_v fix_v and_o agree_v upon_o man_n can_v evade_v but_o matter_n will_v be_v quick_o hear_v and_o remedy_v 4._o as_o in_o reason_n and_o by_o experience_n among_o wise_a man_n it_o be_v hold_v a_o vain_a course_n which_o no_o public_a company_n of_o man_n will_v yield_v to_o but_o such_o practice_n be_v rather_o account_v ridiculous_a to_o raise_v such_o dust_n and_o make_v such_o 〈◊〉_d do_v to_o call_v other_o to_o account_n to_o depose_v witness_n spend_v many_o day_n in_o a_o judiciarie_n way_n and_o yet_o have_v no_o power_n to_o end_v thing_n to_o be_v never_o the_o near_o but_o that_o delinquent_n may_v do_v nevertheless_o what_o they_o please_v so_o it_o can_v be_v conceive_v that_o the_o wise_a god_n have_v order_v in_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n such_o a_o kind_n of_o way_n for_o church_n who_o be_v of_o a_o public_a capacity_n and_o have_v a_o power_n as_o you_o grant_v to_o call_v church_n thus_o to_o a_o account_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o nothing_o to_o be_v do_v to_o the_o offender_n church_n offend_v either_o have_v not_o power_n to_o do_v thus_o much_o as_o you_o grant_v or_o else_o they_o have_v a_o great_a power_n namely_o to_o bring_v about_o the_o end_n which_o these_o mean_n tend_v unto_o namely_o determination_n and_o decision_n the_o right_v person_n injure_v and_o the_o censure_v the_o offend_a party_n but_o it_o will_v be_v say_v by_o you_o that_o if_o the_o church_n offend_v take_v not_o the_o counsel_n and_o advice_n of_o their_o sister_n church_n about_o they_o but_o persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n that_o censure_n of_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n will_v be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n and_o a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v they_o and_o remedy_n all_o as_o well_o as_o that_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o i_o will_v not_o here_o enter_v into_o comparison_n between_o these_o two_o but_o do_v reserve_v it_o to_o it_o be_v proper_a place_n the_o 5_o t_o and_o last_v general_a head_n though_o beside_o excommunicaon_n there_o be_v other_o thing_n in_o the_o classical_a synodical_a way_n both_o to_o preserve_v and_o reduce_v church_n which_o be_v not_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n but_o i_o answer_v this_o be_v no_o likely_a mean_n nor_o way_n for_o which_o i_o shall_v give_v these_o follow_a reason_n 1._o one_o church_n may_v not_o be_v able_a to_o convince_v another_o of_o their_o error_n or_o evil_n much_o less_o one_o church_n two_o or_o three_o church_n offend_v and_o differ_v 2._o the_o church_n offend_v may_v stand_v upon_o it_o that_o what_o they_o do_v be_v according_a to_o their_o light_n it_o be_v according_a to_o their_o conscience_n to_o hold_v such_o a_o opinion_n or_o to_o do_v such_o a_o fact_n as_o to_o depose_v their_o minister_n because_o he_o have_v no_o better_a gift_n of_o preach_v and_o whether_o may_v another_o church_n pass_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o whole_a church_n and_o declare_v and_o protest_v this_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a for_o opinion_n or_o practice_n that_o be_v not_o against_o the_o church_n know_v light_n for_o if_o no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n than_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n may_v be_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n in_o particular_a person_n may_v they_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o non-communion_n of_o whole_a church_n 3._o in_o reason_n this_o seem_v not_o a_o powerful_a mean_n or_o probable_a way_n for_o if_o this_o one_o church_n offend_v shall_v renounce_v the_o church_n challenge_v to_o offend_v they_o may_v and_o will_v renounce_v that_o church_n also_o pass_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n etc._n etc._n against_o that_o and_o how_o shall_v the_o matter_n now_o be_v heal_v and_o remedy_v 4._o that_o church_n or_o church_n thus_o sentence_v may_v be_v care_v not_o for_o the_o communion_n of_o this_o church_n that_o cast_v they_o off_o nor_o of_o no_o other_o as_o long_o as_o they_o can_v have_v communion_n among_o themselves_o these_o kind_n of_o church_n that_o hold_v such_o principle_n of_o entire_a complete_a power_n within_o themselves_o with_o that_o principle_n of_o sufficiency_n of_o all_o gift_n and_o all_o ordinance_n within_o themselves_o will_v go_v on_o in_o their_o error_n and_o sinful_a practice_n for_o all_o that_o 5._o the_o church_n renounce_v and_o cast_v out_o may_v challenge_v the_o church_n cast_v they_o out_o for_o injure_v of_o they_o and_o thereupon_o both_o church_n may_v declare_v and_o protest_v against_o each_o other_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o will_v prove_v as_o great_a a_o rent-difference_n nay_o worse_o than_o the_o first_o and_o this_o will_v produce_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o defend_v and_o prove_v for_o if_o the_o church_n on_o both_o side_n do_v declare_v against_o one_o another_o unto_o the_o other_o church_n which_o of_o they_o now_o shall_v be_v believe_v and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n protest_v and_o declare_v unto_o will_v not_o upon_o the_o protestation_n withdraw_v and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o must_v they_o then_o protest_v against_o they_o also_o and_o what_o the_o church_n protest_v may_v account_v matter_n of_o non-communion_n other_o church_n declare_v and_o protest_v unto_o may_v not_o judge_v so_o so_o that_o here_o will_v be_v worse_a matter_n of_o difference_n and_o division_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n then_o before_o and_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o have_v those_o church_n declare_v and_o protest_v unto_o to_o condemn_v the_o rest_n sentence_v without_o a_o hear_n especial_o where_o there_o be_v but_o one_o to_o one_o or_o where_o one_o may_v declare_v and_o protest_v against_o two_o or_o three_o so_o that_o then_o there_o must_v be_v send_v for_o all_o these_o church_n and_o meeting_n appoint_v for_o the_o church_n protest_v unto_o to_o hear_v the_o church_n on_o both_o side_n and_o what_o now_o if_o the_o church_n declare_v unto_o upon_o the_o hear_n the_o church_n on_o both_o side_n both_o censure_a and_o censure_v shall_v acquit_v the_o church_n condemn_v
and_o censure_v and_o shall_v condemn_v and_o judge_v those_o church_n for_o renounce_v communion_n as_o too_o severe_a and_o declare_v thus_o to_o all_o other_o church_n against_o they_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o these_o case_n will_v these_o church_n censure_v now_o acknowledge_v their_o offence_n and_o revoke_v their_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n or_o if_o they_o will_v not_o what_o must_v these_o church_n protest_v unto_o do_v in_o this_o case_n must_v not_o they_o pass_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o they_o and_o if_o they_o do_v so_o what_o if_o these_o church_n censure_v shall_v also_o pronounce_v the_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n even_o against_o these_o church_n protest_v and_o declare_v unto_o now_o that_o these_o thing_n and_o worse_a may_v not_o and_o will_v not_o fall_v out_o can_v be_v deny_v which_o thing_n as_o to_o the_o neighbour_n church_n among_o themselves_o will_v be_v great_a occasion_n of_o schism_n and_o continual_a difference_n so_o will_v they_o minister_v matter_n of_o great_a scandal_n to_o all_o other_o church_n and_o of_o triumph_n and_o evil_a speak_v unto_o enemy_n all_o which_o will_v be_v easy_o prevent_v and_o remedy_v in_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n six_o two_o or_o three_o church_n or_o more_o of_o your_o independent_a way_n live_v among_o other_o church_n as_o you_o do_v in_o holland_n or_o if_o your_o congregation_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v in_o england_n according_a to_o your_o desire_n you_o may_v hold_v this_o principle_n of_o submission_n to_o one_o another_o and_o yet_o all_o agree_v in_o hold_v some_o error_n with_o which_o error_n you_o may_v infect_v many_o of_o the_o member_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a church_n for_o which_o you_o will_v not_o question_v one_o another_o what_o remedy_n or_o mean_n be_v there_o now_o to_o reduce_v your_o church_n or_o preserve_v we_o seven_o some_o of_o your_o church_n by_o virtue_n of_o this_o principle_n that_o church_n or_o church_n challenge_v to_o offend_v or_o differ_v be_v to_o submit_v themselves_o upon_o the_o challenge_n of_o the_o offence_n to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n by_o other_o neighbour_n church_n may_v be_v ever_o and_o anon_o unjust_o call_v upon_o some_o of_o the_o church_n to_o submit_v and_o challenge_v they_o first_o with_o be_v offend_v by_o they_o lest_o themselves_o shall_v be_v challenge_v to_o have_v offend_v and_o so_o as_o we_o speak_v call_v whore_n first_o and_o also_o they_o who_o be_v challenge_v to_o offend_v to_o be_v even_o with_o they_o will_v challenge_v they_o again_o and_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n and_o who_o shall_v interpose_v to_o determine_v these_o difference_n or_o may_v both_o party_n judge_v thus_o by_o each_o other_o to_o be_v offender_n determine_v against_o one_o a_o other_o eight_o if_o church_n must_v thus_o submit_v to_o trial_n and_o examination_n these_o be_v the_o act_n of_o whole_a church_n here_o will_v be_v nothing_o but_o trial_n and_o examination_n and_o censure_n one_o upon_o another_o and_o this_o instead_o of_o a_o sufficient_a remedy_n be_v like_a to_o prove_v a_o continual_a vexation_n and_o molestation_n to_o neighbour_n church_n nineth_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o case_n one_o church_n or_o more_o take_v offence_n unjust_o at_o other_o and_o trouble_v they_o thus_o to_o call_v they_o to_o open_a examination_n etc._n etc._n what_o satisfaction_n must_v be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n trouble_v and_o examine_v ten_o in_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n suppose_v that_o upon_o a_o hear_n the_o church_n offend_v will_v not_o redress_v the_o grievance_n or_o relieve_v a_o person_n injure_v but_o go_v on_o and_o slight_a communion_n with_o other_o church_n the_o person_n injure_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n be_v debar_v from_o the_o ordinance_n and_o can_v remove_v their_o dwelling_n without_o manifest_a ruin_n of_o their_o family_n how_o do_v this_o help_n such_o person_n injure_v or_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n etc._n etc._n whereas_o now_o in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n if_o such_o a_o minister_n or_o officer_n who_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o may_v be_v depose_v and_o act_n pass_v against_o they_o and_o other_o place_v in_o their_o room_n this_o will_v remedy_n and_o redress_v it_o and_o so_o suppose_v a_o minister_n of_o note_n fall_v into_o heresy_n and_o error_n and_o draw_v the_o most_o of_o his_o people_n after_o he_o so_o that_o he_o can_v be_v depose_v by_o the_o church_n what_o good_a will_v the_o non-communion_n pronounce_v against_o this_o church_n by_o other_o church_n do_v for_o reduce_v they_o but_o now_o if_o this_o minister_n may_v be_v depose_v and_o a_o orthodox_n minister_v put_v in_o to_o preach_v the_o truth_n here_o be_v a_o powerful_a mean_n to_o reduce_v and_o preserve_v eleven_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o and_o pray_v determine_v it_o from_o the_o scripture_n in_o case_n two_o or_o three_o church_n offend_v do_v challenge_v a_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v who_o yet_o upon_o submit_v to_o a_o hear_n will_v not_o yield_v to_o the_o counsel_n and_o advice_n of_o those_o church_n who_o how_o where_o after_o what_o time_n and_o how_o many_o meeting_n and_o after_o what_o manner_n must_v this_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v denounce_v against_o this_o church_n or_o church_n whether_o must_v it_o be_v denounce_v in_o and_o upon_o the_o place_n where_o they_o meet_v to_o hear_v and_o examine_v or_o in_o the_o meeting_n place_n of_o each_o of_o these_o church_n offend_v or_o must_v these_o church_n offend_v meet_v in_o one_o of_o their_o meeting_n place_n to_o pronounce_v it_o together_o and_o who_o must_v be_v the_o mouth_n and_o who_o by_o warrant_n out_o of_o the_o scripture_n have_v the_o power_n to_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o how_o must_v it_o be_v make_v know_v unto_o the_o offend_a church_n with_o other_o thing_n of_o this_o like_a nature_n to_o say_v no_o more_o now_o this_o principle_n of_o non-communion_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n or_o a_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o a_o powerful_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n etc._n etc._n that_o it_o be_v a_o remedy_n worse_o than_o the_o disease_n and_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v practise_v will_v be_v the_o ground_n of_o many_o schism_n separation_n mischief_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o that_o among_o whole_a church_n so_o that_o it_o be_v far_o better_a particular_a person_n shall_v suffer_v wrong_a or_o particular_a person_n fall_v into_o schism_n and_o be_v leave_v to_o their_o liberty_n then_o whole_a church_n suffer_v those_o evil_n which_o your_o principle_n of_o non-communion_n declaration_n protestation_n will_v undoubted_o produce_v as_o the_o reader_n may_v judge_v by_o what_o be_v here_o write_v for_o the_o second_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o this_o principle_n occasion_v upon_o a_o offence_n that_o fall_v out_o in_o your_o church_n i_o shall_v show_v that_o as_o insufficient_a as_o your_o principle_n and_o shall_v animadvert_v upon_o the_o most_o solemn_a instance_n of_o your_o practice_n as_o for_o the_o introduction_n into_o your_o relation_n of_o the_o scandal_n and_o offence_n i_o ready_o assent_v unto_o you_o have_v you_o not_o judge_v it_o for_o the_o advantage_n of_o yourselves_o and_o way_n you_o will_v upon_o no_o other_o occasion_n have_v make_v it_o thus_o public_a for_o you_o be_v good_a at_o conceal_v of_o all_o your_o principle_n and_o practice_n but_o when_o and_o where_o you_o may_v further_o and_o propagate_v your_o way_n for_o the_o story_n itself_o as_o it_o be_v relate_v by_o you_o it_o be_v very_o short_a and_o general_a neither_o express_v the_o minister_n name_v depose_v nor_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o deposition_n nor_o the_o first_o occasion_n of_o the_o difference_n nor_o the_o way_n the_o church_n take_v before_o they_o depose_v he_o nor_o the_o manner_n how_o they_o proceed_v nor_o how_o long_o he_o stand_v so_o depose_v so_o that_o the_o reader_n can_v well_o tell_v what_o to_o make_v of_o it_o for_o want_v of_o a_o more_o full_a particular_a relation_n or_o how_o to_o judge_v whether_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o your_o practice_n here_o lay_v down_o upon_o it_o be_v so_o proper_a and_o so_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n and_o so_o effectual_a a_o course_n as_o you_o boast_v of_o in_o page_n 20_o 21._o i_o must_v therefore_o of_o necessity_n in_o reference_n to_o the_o disproove_v and_o weaken_v of_o what_o you_o will_v infer_v from_o your_o sacred_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n of_o submission_n and_o the_o more_o solemn_a instance_n of_o your_o practice_n wherewith_o to_o vindicate_v yourselves_o and_o way_n in_o this_o particular_a and_o that_o it_o may_v appear_v it_o be_v but_o a_o
half_a slight_a late_a and_o partial_a remedy_n to_o the_o offence_n and_o scandal_n relate_v the_o story_n more_o at_o large_a and_o then_o make_v some_o query_n upon_o it_o and_o your_o solemn_a practice_n thereupon_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_v whether_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n be_v comparable_a to_o the_o way_n of_o the_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n the_o church_n in_o which_o this_o offence_n fall_v out_o be_v at_o rotterdam_n of_o which_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n ward_n of_o norwich_n old_a love_a friend_n and_o both_o fly_n upon_o the_o same_o cause_n bishop_n wren_n innovation_n be_v the_o minister_n and_o the_o minister_n depose_v by_o the_o church_n be_v this_o mr_n ward_n who_o for_o appear_v and_o side_v against_o mr_n bridge_n in_o some_o particular_n and_o for_o his_o preach_n of_o sermon_n in_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n which_o he_o have_v preach_v before_o in_o his_o church_n at_o norwich_n and_o for_o his_o give_v too_o much_o heed_n to_o the_o report_n of_o simple_a people_n and_o old_a wife_n tale_n be_v thus_o depose_v but_o i_o can_v so_o full_o cause_v the_o reader_n to_o understand_v matter_n without_o relate_v the_o first_o difference_n between_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n the_o true_a ground_n and_o rise_v of_o this_o latter_a offence_n mr_n simpson_n one_o of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n after_o some_o time_n of_o behold_v the_o order_n and_o way_n of_o this_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n desire_v to_o be_v admit_v a_o member_n and_o be_v upon_o his_o confession_n etc._n etc._n receive_v in_o but_o not_o long_o after_o what_o be_v the_o true_a reason_n he_o best_a know_v he_o dislike_v some_o person_n and_o thing_n in_o that_o church_n and_o he_o stand_v for_o the_o ordinance_n of_o prophesy_v to_o be_v exercise_v in_o that_o church_n that_o the_o people_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n shall_v have_v lâ—…berty_n after_o the_o sermon_n end_v to_o put_v doubt_n and_o question_n to_o the_o minister_n etc._n etc._n and_o he_o be_v trouble_v at_o a_o roll_a elder_a in_o that_o church_n bring_v in_o by_o mr_n bridge_n which_o belike_o have_v more_o power_n and_o bore_v more_o sway_n than_o himself_o who_o as_o mr_n simpson_n in_o a_o letter_n to_o a_o minister_n in_o london_n complain_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o mr_n bridge_n write_v how_o that_o elder_a be_v in_o that_o church_n over_o all_o person_n and_o over_o all_o cause_n but_o mr_n bridge_n oppose_v mr_n simpson_n prophesy_v upon_o so_o the_o rational_a ground_n of_o inconveniencit_n as_o himself_o tell_v i_o the_o story_n which_o be_v too_o long_o to_o relate_v yet_o he_o yield_v so_o far_o that_o the_o church_n shall_v meet_v on_o a_o week_n day_n and_o then_o they_o shall_v have_v that_o liberty_n but_o this_o will_v no_o way_n satisfy_v mr_n simpson_n whereupon_o the_o difference_n increase_v and_o there_o be_v siding_n but_o mr_n bridges_n power_n be_v the_o great_a to_o carry_v thing_n in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o mr_n simpson_n will_v abide_v no_o long_o but_o quit_v that_o church_n though_o he_o have_v no_o letter_n of_o dismission_n from_o that_o church_n and_o with_o the_o help_n of_o a_o woman_n who_o mr_n bridge_n call_v tell_v i_o the_o story_n of_o thing_n between_o they_o the_o foundress_n of_o mr_n simpson_n church_n set_v up_o a_o church_n against_o a_o church_n consist_v but_o of_o five_o person_n at_o the_o most_o in_o the_o beginning_n whereof_o the_o woman_n and_o her_o husband_n be_v two_o but_o this_o church_n of_o mr_n simpson_n increase_v as_o be_v extol_v for_o a_o pure_a church_n and_o for_o more_o ordinance_n but_o mr_n bridges_n church_n be_v cry_v down_o for_o old_a rot_a member_n and_o for_o the_o want_n of_o prophecy_n and_o so_o the_o fire_n of_o contention_n and_o difference_n grow_v more_o and_o more_o between_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n and_o their_o church_n now_o mr_n ward_n mr_n bridges_n colleague_n side_v with_o mr_n simpson_n stand_v for_o prophesy_v and_o though_o mr_n simpson_n have_v leave_v that_o church_n yet_o mr_n ward_n in_o that_o church_n be_v for_o mr_n simpson_n way_n whereupon_o by_o occasion_n of_o that_o and_o for_o exercise_v his_o gift_n no_o better_o but_o to_o preach_v his_o old_a sermon_n he_o have_v former_o preach_v at_o norwich_n and_o believe_v of_o tale_n give_v so_o much_o way_n to_o report_n he_o be_v depose_v by_o that_o church_n among_o 17_o or_o 18_o reason_n of_o mr_n ward_n deposition_n a_o godly_a learned_a minister_n who_o have_v see_v they_o in_o writing_n tell_v i_o these_o be_v the_o most_o material_a and_o now_o upon_o mr_n simpson_n rend_v from_o the_o church_n and_o set_v up_o a_o church_n against_o a_o church_n under_o mr_n bridges_n nose_n and_o upon_o mr_n ward_n deposition_n from_o his_o ministry_n and_o mr_n simpson_n church_n increase_v in_o fame_n and_o number_n but_o mr_n bridges_n decrease_v and_o some_o other_o rend_a themselves_o away_o and_o upon_o wicked_a report_n raise_v about_o mr_n bridge_n there_o grow_v that_o bitterness_n evil_a speaking_n deep_a censuring_n deadly_a feaud_n among_o these_o minister_n and_o their_o church_n as_o never_o be_v more_o betwixt_o the_o jew_n and_o the_o samaritan_n mr_n bridge_n confess_v to_o i_o there_o be_v no_o such_o sharp_a tongue_n nor_o bitter_a division_n as_o these_o letter_n from_o all_o three_o be_v send_v into_o england_n both_o into_o city_n and_o country_n against_o each_o other_o mr_n simpson_n dispatch_v many_o letter_n into_o england_n against_o mr_n bridge_n as_o to_o mr_n m._n mr_n b._n mr_n h._n mr_n r._n etc._n etc._n and_o mr_n bridge_n against_o mr_n simpson_n mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n ward_n write_v many_o letter_n one_o against_o the_o other_o particular_o to_o norwich_n and_o among_o other_o many_o sharp_a letter_n be_v send_v to_o a_o d_o of_o physic_n about_o the_o difference_n and_o upon_o their_o come_n over_o into_o england_n they_o tell_v sad_a story_n for_o themselves_o and_o each_o against_o other_o mâ—…_n bridge_n lay_v these_o bitter_a difference_n and_o report_n so_o to_o heart_n that_o they_o be_v a_o great_a mean_n of_o her_o death_n and_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n weakness_n and_o distemper_n be_v not_o occasion_v by_o the_o division_n and_o the_o wicked_a scandal_n unjust_o i_o believe_v raise_v upon_o he_o as_o well_o as_o by_o the_o air_n of_o rotterdam_n mr_n bridge_n know_v best_a and_o thus_o much_o for_o the_o particular_a relation_n of_o the_o scandal_n and_o offence_n that_o fall_v out_o in_o that_o church_n of_o rotterdam_n as_o it_o have_v be_v relate_v to_o i_o from_o good_a hand_n from_o some_o who_o have_v live_v in_o holland_n and_o as_o i_o have_v part_n of_o it_o from_o mr_n bridges_n own_o mouth_n and_o some_o of_o it_o from_o letter_n of_o mr_n simpson_n write_v into_o england_n and_o from_o other_o man_n of_o credit_n who_o have_v see_v letter_n and_o relation_n write_v from_o thence_o now_o from_o the_o relation_n of_o this_o story_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o it_o i_o shall_v propound_v these_o query_n which_o will_v give_v some_o light_n to_o judge_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o sufficiency_n in_o your_o course_n to_o remedy_n and_o redress_v thing_n amiss_o in_o church_n and_o betwixt_o person_n offend_v 1._o whether_o your_o church_n do_v agree_v upon_o and_o tie_v yourselves_o to_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n at_o your_o first_o set_v up_o and_o come_v into_o that_o place_n of_o exile_n or_o do_v you_o first_o acknowledge_v it_o and_o be_v willing_a to_o submit_v upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o the_o scandal_n of_o mr_n ward_n depose_v and_o that_o great_a clamour_n upon_o it_o both_o in_o holland_n and_o england_n 2._o whether_o do_v you_o then_o or_o do_v you_o now_o acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n to_o all_o other_o neighbour_n church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o they_o of_o your_o own_o way_n as_o namely_o to_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n those_o english_a church_n at_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n etc._n etc._n and_o will_v you_o have_v submit_v to_o those_o church_n to_o have_v so_o proceed_v upon_o offence_n and_o difference_n among_o you_o 3._o how_o long_o be_v it_o be_v it_o not_o for_o the_o space_n of_o between_o a_o year_n and_o two_o that_o mr_n ward_n stand_v depose_v and_o lay_v aside_o from_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n before_o he_o be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o late_a remedy_n and_o iâ—…_n it_o so_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n 4._o when_o and_o at_o what_o time_n be_v this_o principle_n of_o sâ—…bmission_n and_o your_o solemn_a practice_n both_o of_o â—…equiring_v the_o church_n offend_v to_o give_v a_o account_n with_o their_o châ—…arfull_a submit_v
and_o restore_v mr_n ward_n agree_v upon_o be_v it_o not_o upon_o the_o news_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o probability_n of_o the_o revolution_n of_o thing_n and_o i_o propound_v this_o question_n because_o mr_n bâ—…rroughs_n who_o come_v in_o m._n ward_n place_n after_o his_o deposition_n come_v back_o to_o england_n but_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o till_o he_o come_v or_o be_v resolve_v to_o come_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a m._n ward_n be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o that_o it_o be_v do_v when_o all_o be_v like_a to_o break_v up_o and_o they_o to_o come_v fâ—…_n england_n may_v we_o not_o suspect_v it_o be_v do_v for_o a_o instance_n to_o vindicate_v your_o way_n with_o and_o to_o serve_v your_o turn_n as_o in_o this_o apology_n rather_o than_o from_o any_o necessity_n of_o right_v a_o person_n â—…jured_v or_o correct_v a_o church_n offend_v 5._o why_o do_v not_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n take_v offence_n as_o well_o at_o m._n sympson_n church_n and_o at_o his_o schism_n in_o set_v up_o another_o church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o bitterness_n evil_a speak_v between_o those_o two_o church_n the_o ground_n indeed_o and_o foundation_n of_o that_o unhappy_a business_n about_o m._n ward_n and_o of_o all_o the_o evil_n commit_v therein_o and_o according_o have_v require_v m._n sympson_n church_n to_o have_v submit_v but_o here_o be_v not_o a_o hint_n of_o this_o in_o all_o the_o relation_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n out_o of_o holland_n by_o i_o that_o concern_v this_o business_n write_v thus_o that_o though_o m._n sympson_n with_o sâ—…me_n fâ—…w_o morâ—…_n râ—…t_v themselves_o from_o m._n bridges_n church_n to_o the_o great_a offence_n thereof_o yet_o m._n goodwin_n and_o his_o associate_n when_o they_o come_v to_o hear_v the_o business_n about_o m._n ward_n never_o question_v that_o scandal_n i_o mean_v of_o their_o schism_n from_o the_o same_o church_n now_o if_o it_o be_v so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o partial_a remedy_n not_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o offence_n noâ—…_n to_o the_o bottom_n of_o it_o why_o do_v you_o not_o summon_v both_o these_o church_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o difference_n to_o submit_v as_o well_o as_o one_o of_o the_o church_n will_v not_o your_o principle_n serve_v in_o difference_n between_o church_n as_o for_o difference_n in_o one_o church_n or_o be_v it_o that_o there_o be_v no_o complaint_n of_o neither_o side_n or_o be_v it_o because_o you_o be_v tender_a of_o question_v the_o multiplication_n of_o church_n though_o by_o separation_n and_o schiâ—…me_n or_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n you_o question_v not_o that_o 6._o whether_o be_v the_o other_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n or_o any_o of_o they_o who_o can_v not_o but_o be_v offend_v as_o they_o of_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n leyden_n delft_n call_v in_o by_o arnheim_n or_o by_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n to_o join_v in_o the_o hear_n try_v of_o that_o business_n and_o depose_v witness_n or_o do_v they_o send_v messenger_n or_o be_v it_o only_o agitate_a by_o two_o minister_n â—…nd_v two_o messenger_n of_o tâ—…_n church_n of_o arnheim_n one_o church_n only_o 〈◊〉_d to_o 〈◊〉_d one_o to_o one_o both_o equal_a and_o whether_o there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a majesty_n and_o solemnity_n of_o a_o meeting_n where_o they_o be_v equal_a â—…ay_v a_o inferiority_n in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o representative_a church_n consist_v of_o four_o be_v below_o a_o church_n represent_v as_o in_o a_o presbyterial_a assâ—…bly_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n from_o holland_n by_o i_o wherein_o a_o godly_a ministâ—…r_n write_v thus_o i_o be_v desire_v by_o mr_n ward_n to_o be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n but_o when_o the_o time_n come_v neither_o i_o nor_o any_o other_o english_a minister_n but_o they_o of_o arnheim_n be_v callâ—…d_v 7._o to_o what_o or_o to_o how_o much_o do_v your_o practice_n who_o be_v the_o church_n offend_v amount_v unto_o upon_o mr_n bridges_n church_n submission_n and_o your_o full_a hear_n and_o find_v both_o side_n to_o be_v in_o a_o error_n do_v you_o enjoin_v and_o draw_v up_o a_o order_n that_o the_o church_n offend_v shall_v public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinfâ—…_n abeâ—…ation_n before_o you_o and_o the_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n again_o and_o that_o they_o shall_v keep_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n and_o that_o the_o minister_n depose_v shall_v acknowledge_v to_o the_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v or_o do_v you_o leave_v they_o to_o themselves_o upon_o your_o find_v the_o offence_n to_o do_v what_o they_o think_v fit_v both_o church_n and_o minister_n as_o be_v against_o your_o principle_n for_o one_o church_n to_o decree_n and_o impose_v any_o thing_n upon_o another_o and_o so_o they_o â—…ooke_v up_o this_o way_n voluntary_o will_v you_o will_v speak_v out_o and_o once_o tell_v we_o plain_o what_o you_o hold_v and_o what_o you_o woâ—…ld_v 〈◊〉_d that_o so_o the_o reader_n may_v judge_v of_o the_o effectualnessâ—…_n of_o your_o 〈◊〉_d 8._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n with_o the_o offend_a church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v sit_v as_o judge_n with_o they_o oâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d in_o their_o own_o cause_n to_o examine_v depose_v etc._n etc._n or_o else_o 〈◊〉_d by_o aâ—…_n delinquent_n to_o be_v charge_v try_a etc._n etc._n 9_o i_o deâ—…e_v to_o know_v of_o you_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o be_v râ—…stored_v do_v as_o forme_o officiate_v in_o that_o church_n and_o how_o long_o and_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n and_o he_o continue_v there_o as_o fellow_n minister_n and_o whether_o both_o between_o they_o two_o and_o between_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n there_o be_v that_o mutual_a carriage_n as_o before_o and_o aught_o to_o be_v between_o fellow_n minister_n and_o minister_n and_o people_n 10._o how_o can_v a_o church_n representative_a be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o allow_a remedy_n to_o take_v up_o great_a offence_n in_o a_o church_n at_o a_o great_a distance_n and_o whether_o this_o imply_v not_o a_o implicit_a faith_n in_o the_o represent_v to_o let_v the_o representer_n upon_o hear_v put_v a_o final_a determination_n and_o conclusion_n to_o great_a offence_n and_o difference_n without_o return_v back_o the_o business_n to_o the_o church_n represent_v or_o so_o much_o as_o ever_o acquaint_v they_o with_o the_o business_n before_o all_o be_v end_v as_o be_v in_o this_o particular_a case_n and_o whether_o faith_n mr_n robinsâ—…s_fw-fr argument_n against_o the_o presbyterian_o â—…bout_o the_o power_n of_o their_o elder_n be_v not_o strong_a against_o your_o principle_n and_o practice_n here_o relate_v and_o what_o ground_n be_v there_o from_o tâ—…e_a scripture_n that_o four_o man_n of_o another_o church_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o call_v unto_o and_o insist_v upon_o a_o judiciarie_n charge_v against_o they_o who_o be_v great_a than_o themselves_o namely_o against_o a_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o officerâ—…_n and_o people_n 11._o suppose_v the_o church_n of_o arâ—…m_n who_o send_v two_o ministerâ—…_n and_o two_o gentleman_n â—…s_v messenger_n of_o their_o church_n upon_o their_o return_n back_o to_o the_o church_n and_o give_v a_o account_n of_o all_o the_o proceed_n and_o issue_n of_o that_o business_n have_v dislike_v the_o determination_n and_o judge_v some_o of_o the_o proceed_n unjust_a otherâ—…_n unsatisfactory_a and_o not_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n as_o the_o church_n of_o 〈◊〉_d may_v well_o have_v do_v there_o be_v just_a ground_n for_o it_o as_o i_o will_v show_v in_o the_o second_o particular_a under_o the_o next_o head_n what_o must_v have_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n must_v the_o messenger_n themselves_o have_v be_v now_o question_v by_o the_o church_n for_o manage_v matter_n no_o better_a or_o must_v the_o sentence_n agree_v upon_o both_o for_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n be_v reverse_v or_o must_v other_o messenger_n be_v send_v to_o hear_v matter_n again_o and_o to_o change_v or_o add_v what_o be_v amiss_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n will_v not_o alter_v that_o which_o upon_o so_o full_a a_o hear_n and_o trial_n be_v agree_v upon_o now_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o and_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n consider_v that_o the_o church_n or_o church_n themselves_o may_v probable_o and_o it_o can_v but_o be_v expect_v 〈◊〉_d and_o vary_v in_o their_o judgement_n from_o their_o messenger_n about_o the_o determination_n of_o offence_n and_o difference_n whether_o this_o be_v a_o likely_a mean_n and_o sufficient_a remedy_n to_o end_v all_o strifed_a or_o rather_o will_v not_o be_v as_o the_o begin_n of_o new_a strife_n and_o a_o occasion_n of_o endless_a contention_n 12._o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o occasion_n of_o offence_n and_o
difference_n what_o if_o the_o messenger_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o hear_v and_o examine_v differ_v among_o themselves_o about_o the_o difference_n and_o offence_n in_o the_o church_n â—…ending_v and_o about_o the_o sentence_n to_o be_v agree_v upon_o to_o be_v commend_v to_o the_o offend_a party_n yea_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n themselves_o upon_o return_n make_v by_o the_o messenger_n how_o they_o find_v matter_n differ_v also_o one_o of_o the_o church_n offend_v be_v of_o one_o mind_n and_o the_o other_o church_n offend_v of_o another_o mind_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o now_o for_o miscarriage_n what_o relief_n for_o a_o person_n injure_v or_o what_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n 13._o in_o your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n and_o in_o your_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n â—…hat_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a what_o shall_v become_v of_o some_o innocent_a godly_a person_n in_o that_o church_n renounce_v and_o protest_v against_o must_v they_o be_v renounce_v communion_n with_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o the_o case_n where_o some_o in_o a_o church_n may_v be_v free_a from_o the_o error_n and_o evil_n which_o the_o great_a number_n be_v guilty_a of_o which_o you_o account_v the_o church_n must_v they_o be_v debar_v of_o all_o christian_a communion_n with_o the_o church_n offend_v and_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n protest_v to_o you_o speak_v nothing_o here_o in_o this_o case_n nor_o take_v no_o care_n for_o they_o but_o wrap_v up_o all_o alike_o in_o your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n must_v the_o innocent_a party_n now_o in_o this_o church_n offend_v separate_a and_o withdraw_v from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o renounce_v communion_n too_o as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n offend_v what_o if_o all_o their_o maintenance_n and_o livelihood_n depend_v in_o live_v in_o that_o place_n so_o that_o if_o they_o withdraw_v from_o they_o they_o must_v either_o live_v without_o public_a ordinance_n and_o communion_n or_o else_o if_o they_o come_v away_o ruin_n themselves_o and_o family_n what_o also_o if_o in_o this_o church_n offend_v the_o wife_n be_v one_o of_o the_o innocent_a person_n in_o that_o church_n but_o the_o husband_n of_o the_o number_n of_o they_o that_o persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n the_o son_n and_o daughter_n among_o the_o innocent_a the_o father_n and_o mother_n among_o the_o offender_n what_o must_v the_o wife_n and_o child_n renounce_v communion_n with_o their_o husband_n and_o parent_n and_o now_o either_o live_v without_o the_o ordinance_n there_o or_o else_o go_v away_o from_o their_o husband_n and_o pareâ—…ts_n to_o some_o other_o church_n 〈◊〉_d and_o in_o your_o draw_v up_o your_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n against_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n will_v you_o in_o the_o gross_a do_v it_o or_o will_v you_o signify_v and_o declare_v all_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o remain_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a in_o such_o church_n with_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o be_v free_a from_o those_o error_n and_o offence_n lest_o you_o shall_v bring_v all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n protest_v unto_o into_o sin_n and_o a_o snare_n pray_v resolve_v these_o case_n with_o many_o such_o which_o by_o these_o now_o hint_v you_o may_v foresee_v will_v fall_v out_o in_o your_o principle_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n three_o for_o the_o success_n and_o effectualnes_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o answer_v 1._o suppose_v the_o particular_a instance_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v to_o have_v have_v a_o good_a effect_n as_o you_o relate_v in_o your_o two_o church_n of_o arnheim_n and_o rottendam_fw-la yet_o it_o follow_v not_o it_o be_v a_o powerful_a and_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v church_n for_o a_o course_n may_v prevail_v in_o one_o and_o take_v with_o one_o and_o yet_o have_v no_o rationality_n to_o carry_v it_o in_o other_o for_o though_o this_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v submit_v to_o they_o of_o arnheim_n who_o be_v of_o note_n for_o part_n quality_n etc._n etc._n yet_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o these_o will_v to_o some_o other_o particular_a church_n who_o have_v challenge_v they_o and_o whether_o these_o man_n will_v also_o at_o all_o time_n have_v there_o not_o be_v something_o cast_v in_o the_o balance_n before_o hint_v 2._o take_v the_o best_a that_o come_v of_o the_o issue_n and_o success_n of_o this_o agitation_n between_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n and_o that_o of_o rotterdam_n namely_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v acknowledge_v their_o offence_n in_o depose_v mr_n ward_n and_o restore_v he_o to_o his_o place_n again_o it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a satisfaction_n for_o the_o loss_n of_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n for_o so_o long_a a_o time_n and_o for_o all_o the_o suffering_n of_o he_o and_o his_o family_n if_o the_o church_n offend_v have_v be_v enjoin_v or_o have_v order_v themselves_o to_o have_v pay_v he_o the_o profit_n of_o his_o place_n or_o to_o have_v give_v he_o a_o good_a sum_n of_o money_n on_o their_o fast_a day_n this_o have_v be_v some_o relief_n for_o a_o wrongful_a sentence_n and_o a_o person_n injure_v thereby_o and_o may_v have_v be_v a_o mean_n to_o have_v preserve_v they_o from_o do_v the_o like_a for_o time_n to_o come_v but_o for_o a_o minister_n and_o his_o family_n to_o be_v so_o long_o in_o a_o sad_a condition_n without_o all_o maintenance_n in_o a_o strange_a land_n and_o in_o the_o issue_n for_o they_o who_o do_v this_o to_o acknowledge_v only_o their_o sinful_a aberration_n and_o the_o minister_n thus_o suffer_v to_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n too_o and_o both_o of_o they_o to_o be_v humble_v for_o it_o alike_o here_o be_v a_o poor_a remedy_n â—…ay_o as_o you_o relate_v it_o yourselves_o it_o be_v very_o unjust_a and_o injurious_a for_o in_o some_o passage_n of_o your_o narration_n you_o acknowledge_v the_o fault_n on_o the_o church_n side_n as_o in_o page_n 16._o and_o in_o page_n â—…0_n and_o that_o mr_n ward_n be_v wrong_v and_o yet_o they_o be_v both_o equal_o order_v to_o a_o public_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o solemn_a fast_v the_o delinquent_n and_o the_o innocent_a alike_o deal_v with_o be_v this_o the_o fruit_n of_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o non-communion_n be_v this_o the_o real_a evidence_n and_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effectual_a success_n of_o such_o a_o course_n hold_v by_o church_n in_o such_o a_o case_n and_o be_v this_o the_o issue_n of_o all_o that_o send_v to_o and_o solemn_a assembly_n and_o the_o agitation_n of_o so_o many_o day_n public_a hear_n by_o deposition_n of_o witness_n so_o large_o and_o formal_o relate_v in_o page_n 20_o 21_o i_o wonder_v wise_a man_n as_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v shall_v not_o see_v into_o the_o weakness_n and_o folly_n of_o your_o own_o practice_n in_o this_o case_n but_o tell_v such_o a_o story_n so_o to_o shame_v yourselves_o you_o shall_v never_o have_v trouble_v yourselves_o to_o have_v come_v so_o many_o dutch_a mile_n not_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n nor_o make_v so_o great_a ado_n for_o many_o day_n of_o depose_v witness_n etc._n etc._n as_o yourselves_o relate_v in_o page_n 20_o 21._o to_o have_v put_v together_o the_o innocent_a and_o delinquent_n and_o let_v i_o here_o put_v you_o this_o dilemma_n either_o mr_n ward_n be_v unjust_o depose_v from_o his_o ministry_n both_o material_o and_o formal_o upon_o unsufficient_a cause_n as_o the_o matter_n for_o such_o a_o censure_n and_o for_o the_o way_n and_o manner_n of_o it_o as_o be_v too_o sudden_a before_o admonition_n and_o before_o fast_v and_o prayer_n precede_v etc._n etc._n 〈◊〉_d be_v just_o depose_v by_o the_o church_n if_o unjust_o in_o both_o these_o respect_n as_o your_o narration_n imply_v page_n 16._o why_o be_v mr._n ward_n put_v upon_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n to_o the_o church_n and_o put_v in_o the_o same_o condition_n with_o they_o who_o have_v deal_v so_o unjust_o both_o material_o and_o formal_o and_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o a_o mean_n to_o hinder_v the_o church_n repentance_n and_o humiliation_n for_o their_o sin_n when_o they_o shall_v be_v put_v but_o to_o do_v as_o mr_n ward_n but_o if_o mr_n ward_n be_v just_o dopose_v why_o be_v the_o church_n then_o put_v upon_o public_a acknowledgement_n and_o order_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o before_o god_n and_o man_n and_o whether_o be_v mr_n bridge_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n enjoin_v to_o confess_v his_o sinful_a aberration_n in_o it_o in_o that_o he_o do_v not_o interpose_v his_o authority_n and_o interest_n in_o the_o church_n nor_o speak_v a_o
thing_n when_o they_o must_v we_o find_v it_o so_o in_o all_o converse_v with_o man_n and_o good_a man_n be_v man_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n between_o authority_n and_o obedience_n and_o only_a persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o such_o case_n be_v it_o in_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a member_n in_o your_o church_n to_o submit_v or_o not_o submit_v as_o they_o please_v there_o will_v be_v much_o ado_n to_o remedy_v any_o thing_n as_o will_v be_v betwixt_o church_n differ_v but_o particular_o for_o excommunication_n and_o non-communion_n excommunication_n may_v upon_o these_o ground_n awe_v man_n conscience_n more_o and_o be_v more_o effectual_a than_o non-communion_n 1._o because_o there_o be_v something_o positive_a in_o it_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o the_o offender_n up_o unto_o satan_n but_o your_o non-communion_n be_v a_o privative_a deprive_v only_o of_o communion_n now_o there_o be_v more_o efficacy_n in_o a_o positive_a then_o in_o a_o privative_a and_o negative_a second_o excommunication_n do_v deprive_v the_o person_n offend_v or_o the_o church_n of_o all_o communion_n among_o themselves_o as_o well_o as_o the_o communion_n of_o other_o church_n whereas_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v but_o take_v other_o church_n off_o from_o communion_n with_o they_o but_o meddle_v not_o to_o debar_v they_o of_o communion_n among_o themselves_o in_o their_o own_o particular_a church_n but_o still_o they_o enjoy_v the_o word_n prayer_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n three_o yourselves_o make_v excommunication_n the_o great_a censure_n as_o appear_v by_o your_o own_o phrase_n call_v it_o a_o authoritative_a power_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o practise_v that_o against_o other_o church_n whereas_o you_o do_v exercise_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o we_o know_v it_o be_v the_o high_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n now_o certain_o the_o great_a censure_n and_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o intention_n be_v more_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o awe_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n amiss_o then_o the_o lesser_a and_o low_a censure_n and_o so_o much_o for_o the_o comparison_n in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n you_o grant_v that_o aught_o to_o back_n and_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n and_o you_o give_v more_o as_o you_o think_v to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yeâ—…ld_v your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o presbyterian_o i_o answer_v suppose_v all_o that_o you_o say_v of_o give_v so_o much_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n &c_n &c_n be_v true_a yet_o that_o make_v not_o your_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n so_o effectual_a a_o mean_n as_o excommunication_n for_o the_o question_n be_v about_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o about_o spiritual_a mean_n and_o remedy_n for_o the_o conscience_n and_o soul_n and_o not_o about_o civil_a power_n and_o civil_a external_a mean_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v you_o this_o question_n upon_o this_o passage_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n either_o you_o give_v he_o a_o ecclesiastical_a spiritual_a power_n of_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n to_o church_n miscarry_v or_o you_o do_v not_o if_o you_o give_v he_o not_o this_o first_o as_o i_o judge_v your_o principle_n will_v not_o allow_v you_o he_o be_v no_o churchofficer_n of_o christ_n â—…hurch_n but_o only_o christ_n give_v pastor_n teacher_n etc._n etc._n as_o necessary_a and_o sufficient_a for_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n than_o all_o you_o say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n help_v you_o not_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n but_o before_o i_o speak_v any_o more_o to_o that_o point_n that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n back_v your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n i_o must_v animadvert_v upon_o the_o passage_n itself_o both_o in_o the_o comparative_a of_o your_o say_n you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o upon_o the_o positive_a what_o you_o give_v they_o 1._o for_o the_o comparison_n it_o be_v a_o odious_a and_o dangerous_a insinuation_n to_o prepare_v king_n and_o parliament_n to_o reject_v the_o presbytery_n as_o not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n as_o be_v their_o due_n and_o it_o be_v scandalous_a against_o scotland_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o what_o be_v the_o main_a â—…nd_n of_o it_o or_o what_o may_v be_v conceive_v the_o reason_n of_o your_o say_n you_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o more_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o see_v man_n of_o your_o church_n principle_n be_v never_o guilty_a yet_o of_o give_v too_o much_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o magistrate_n you_o be_v the_o first_o independent_o and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o time_n that_o ever_o public_o you_o have_v express_v yourselves_o thus_o i_o judge_v you_o be_v politician_n politici_fw-la theologi_fw-la to_o flatter_v the_o parliament_n at_o this_o time_n the_o better_a to_o work_v your_o end_n for_o a_o toleration_n and_o to_o promote_v your_o churchway_n you_o write_v thus_o it_o be_v observe_v by_o learned_a man_n that_o among_o the_o principal_a attempt_n and_o policy_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n whereby_o they_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o church_n of_o the_o netherlands_o into_o commotion_n and_o to_o obtain_v their_o own_o end_n this_o be_v a_o great_a one_o the_o cry_v up_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n both_o by_o write_v of_o book_n of_o their_o great_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n and_o in_o their_o sermon_n every_o where_o and_o their_o asperse_v the_o orthodox_n minister_n and_o their_o lawful_a meeting_n and_o ecclesiastical_a action_n with_o the_o contrary_a and_o among_o many_o other_o particular_n of_o the_o great_a power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n this_o be_v one_o that_o they_o do_v ascribe_v to_o the_o magistrate_n the_o ultimate_a and_o high_a jurisdiction_n and_o power_n of_o give_v judgement_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n reason_v that_o unto_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o immediate_o under_o christ_n do_v belong_v the_o judgement_n when_o controversy_n of_o faith_n do_v arise_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o after_o the_o arminian_n despair_v of_o prevail_v by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o bring_v and_o remove_v their_o cause_n from_o the_o ecclesiastical_a cognizance_n to_o another_o court_n by_o their_o policy_n and_o artifices_fw-la make_v use_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o one_o or_o two_o chief_a man_n in_o place_n to_o work_v for_o they_o and_o that_o this_o new-way_n may_v have_v some_o colour_n and_o that_o so_o much_o the_o more_o easy_o the_o favour_n of_o many_o politician_n or_o at_o least_o a_o toleration_n may_v be_v procure_v for_o these_o arminian_n novelty_n there_o be_v a_o book_n set_v forth_o by_o uttenbogardus_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la supremi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la in_o ecclesiasticis_fw-la many_o other_o of_o the_o arminian_n also_o sing_v the_o same_o song_n as_o episcopius_n print_v a_o disputation_n de_fw-fr jure_fw-la magistratus_fw-la circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la barlaeus_n grotius_n etc._n etc._n and_o beside_o all_o these_o there_o be_v a_o great_a number_n of_o book_n put_v forth_o in_o the_o vulgar_a and_o mother_n tongue_n of_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o thus_o whilst_o the_o magistrate_n let_v the_o arminian_n alonâ—…_n and_o do_v nothing_o against_o they_o even_o till_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n in_o the_o year_n 1618._o they_o slatter_v they_o thus_o but_o after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n have_v determine_v against_o their_o opinion_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n be_v agaiâ—…t_v they_o than_o they_o lift_v up_o the_o heel_n and_o then_o they_o write_v book_n in_o a_o far_a other_o stile_n and_o in_o their_o apology_n that_o power_n which_o before_o they_o have_v so_o liberal_o measure_v out_o for_o they_o they_o do_v not_o a_o little_a limit_n and_o contract_n and_o offend_v as_o much_o in_o the_o defect_n give_v magistrate_n too_o little_a as_o before_o they_o have_v in_o the_o excess_n give_v they_o too_o much_o for_o the_o full_a proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o learned_a erant_fw-la voetius_fw-la select_a disputation_n concern_v that_o question_n penes_fw-la quos_fw-la sit_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la where_o he_o do_v at_o large_a relate_v this_o and_o their_o opinion_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n after_o the_o synod_n
of_o dort_n and_o unto_o ostensum_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la constantini_n magni_fw-la who_o as_o all_o man_n know_v give_v in_o that_o book_n power_n enough_o to_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n yet_o he_o lay_v down_o at_o large_a that_o as_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o socinian_o follow_v the_o donatist_n give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o the_o arminian_n do_v offend_v in_o the_o excess_n for_o before_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n they_o contend_v that_o under_o the_o orthodox_n magistrate_n the_o church_n have_v of_o itself_o no_o spiritual_a power_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n do_v perform_v their_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o the_o magistrate_n because_o he_o for_o other_o business_n can_v not_o preach_v etc._n etc._n he_o do_v preach_v by_o the_o minister_n they_o give_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o they_o give_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o depose_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o with_o many_o other_o such_o but_o afâ—…er_v the_o synod_n they_o deny_v it_o be_v their_o right_n and_o office_n to_o oblige_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n however_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n or_o to_o use_v any_o coactive_a power_n in_o that_o case_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o they_o take_v away_o as_o much_o from_o the_o magistrate_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o seem_v to_o give_v and_o it_o may_v be_v fear_v however_o these_o apologist_n now_o to_o ingratiate_v themselves_o and_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o their_o churchway_n say_v they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o that_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v and_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n judgement_n and_o cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o when_o they_o shall_v come_v once_o to_o be_v cross_v and_o the_o parliament_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o their_o authority_n to_o bind_v they_o to_o the_o thing_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n we_o shall_v see_v then_o what_o they_o will_v say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n there_o be_v too_o many_o speech_n already_o since_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n out_o of_o their_o fear_n how_o thing_n may_v go_v which_o have_v fall_v from_o many_o independent_o that_o prognosticate_n they_o will_v do_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o the_o remonstrant_n do_v after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n by_o the_o state_n 2._o but_o whatever_o you_o say_v here_o that_o you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n suffragamur_fw-la of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o do_v much_o doubt_v it_o and_o do_v judge_v that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o give_v no_o more_o in_o ecclesiastical_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o in_o other_o you_o give_v less_o and_o they_o give_v more_o m._n robinson_n in_o his_o apology_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o church_n that_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n they_o hold_v altogether_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o the_o belgic_a church_n do_v and_o that_o to_o their_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n they_o do_v ex_fw-la animo_fw-la agree_v now_o the_o belgic_a church_n be_v presbyterian_o and_o your_o churchway_n &_o m._n robinson_n differ_v not_o much_o â—…o_o that_o till_o you_o know_v what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o m._n robinson_n and_o his_o church_n do_v i_o can_v believe_v you_o especial_o consider_v that_o m._n burroughes_n one_o of_o you_o in_o his_o lecture_n upon_o hosea_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o church_n affair_n veâ—…_n give_v no_o more_o to_o they_o then_o the_o rigide_a presbyterian_o namely_o that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a governor_n to_o govern_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o civil_a law_n so_o as_o to_o sâ—…_n christ_n not_o dishonour_v so_o as_o to_o keep_v out_o idolatry_n to_o protect_v the_o church_n to_o punish_v enormitio_n that_o be_v there_o to_o define_v it_o from_o enemy_n in_o that_o sense_n he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o head_n but_o that_o title_n of_o supreme_a governor_n be_v understand_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n be_v more_o proper_a now_o it_o be_v easy_a out_o of_o beza_n calvin_n zanchius_n and_o many_o presbyterian_o to_o show_v more_o power_n give_v to_o king_n by_o they_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n then_o by_o m._n burroughes_n there_o so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o judge_v of_o your_o principle_n by_o what_o m._n burroughes_n write_v particular_o and_o by_o way_n of_o answer_v doubt_n of_o conscience_n then_o from_o a_o narrration_n in_o general_a and_o from_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v in_o other_o thing_n you_o give_v not_o so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o the_o presbyterian_o first_o whereas_o the_o a_o presbyterian_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o protestant_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n a_o eminent_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o their_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n give_v he_o a_o eminent_a place_n and_o power_n you_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o own_v he_o for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o shall_v his_o child_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n nor_o he_o to_o the_o ordinance_n though_o a_o protestant_n and_o orthodox_n unless_o you_o account_v he_o a_o visible_a saint_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v you_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n or_o vote_n no_o not_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o church_n matter_n of_o censure_n admission_n election_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n as_o you_o do_v give_v to_o one_o of_o your_o serve_a man_n and_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o his_o child_n though_o bring_v up_o and_o profess_v the_o true_a religion_n may_v be_v and_o will_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n all_o their_o day_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n to_o suppress_v heresy_n schism_n to_o correct_v troubler_n and_o unruly_a person_n in_o the_o church_n to_o tie_v and_o bind_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n make_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o power_n as_o b_o voetius_fw-la show_n only_o the_o remonstrant_n with_o the_o libertine_n do_v not_o admit_v but_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v reject_v such_o opinion_n that_o the_o magistrate_n can_v not_o by_o his_o stringere_fw-la authority_n bind_v and_o compel_v man_n to_o observe_v the_o decree_n of_o synod_n conformable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ordinem_fw-la now_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n such_o a_o power_n by_o your_o plead_n for_o toleration_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o that_o conscience_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o by_o your_o speak_n against_o imposition_n of_o thing_n lawful_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n as_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n decree_v by_o synod_n and_o such_o like_a it_o be_v very_o suspicious_a you_o allow_v not_o such_o a_o power_n to_o magistrate_n and_o your_o good_a friend_n â—…0_n m._n s._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o observation_n and_o consideration_n upon_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n plead_v your_o cause_n deny_v and_o plead_v against_o this_o coercive_a power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n 3._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o power_n to_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o repair_v and_o build_v the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o calvin_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o the_o independent_o give_v as_o much_o when_o they_o allow_v private_a man_n to_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o minister_n to_o do_v such_o public_a work_n and_o that_o without_o leave_n nay_o against_o the_o mind_n and_o law_n of_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n i_o question_v there_o be_v a_o tractate_n in_o my_o hand_n about_o a_o church_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o you_o wherein_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v cut_v off_o and_o minister_n too_o from_o have_v any_o power_n to_o make_v church_n and_o the_o immediate_a independent_a power_n from_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o the_o saint_n only_o to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o in_o such_o a_o assembly_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n what_o soever_o upon_o earth_n saint_n as_o saint_n have_v a_o right_n and_o full_a power_n to_o cast_v themselves_o into_o the_o fellowship_n without_o ask_v the_o consent_n of_o governor_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o have_v no_o power_n in_o the_o marriage_n of_o their_o people_n nor_o shall_v have_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o natural_a civil_a
right_n and_o as_o magistrate_n have_v no_o power_n over_o family-government_n to_o appoint_v who_o i_o shall_v admit_v into_o my_o family_n etc._n etc._n much_o less_o have_v they_o power_n over_o christ_n family_n this_o union_n of_o a_o church_n be_v a_o spiritual_a right_n which_o be_v transcendent_o out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o the_o magistrate_n authority_n and_o the_o apostle_n teach_v the_o saint_n to_o do_v it_o without_o ask_v leave_n of_o the_o magistrate_n yea_o not_o to_o for_o sake_n it_o though_o the_o magistrate_n forbid_v it_o heb._n 10._o 25._o now_o i_o believe_v you_o can_v show_v i_o any_o principle_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n nor_o quote_v i_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o presbyterian_a that_o cut_v short_a the_o power_n of_o the_o orthodox_n protestant_n magistrate_n about_o congregation_n and_o assembly_n as_o this_o do_v 4._o the_o presbyterian_o do_v grant_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o public_a exercise_n of_o the_o ministry_n that_o it_o be_v so_o far_o subject_a to_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o magistrate_n that_o without_o his_o approbative_a authority_n or_o confirm_a authority_n or_o his_o toleration_n of_o it_o it_o ought_v not_o by_o the_o church_n to_o be_v public_o begin_v in_o his_o territory_n nor_o practise_a dâ—…decimae_fw-la apollonius_n of_o zealand_n who_o write_v a_o answer_n to_o vedellius_fw-la by_o the_o command_n of_o the_o waâ—…achrian_a classis_fw-la be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a and_o in_o that_o answer_n must_v needs_o show_v it_o upon_o occasion_n of_o vedelius_fw-la give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n yet_o he_o grant_v the_o magistrate_n this_o power_n about_o the_o exercise_n of_o the_o ministry_n now_o whether_o your_o principle_n allow_v this_o to_o the_o magistrate_n let_v your_o practice_n speak_v about_o your_o make_v minister_n and_o exercise_v of_o it_o as_o you_o do_v 5._o the_o presbyterian_o grant_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n in_o private_a meeting_n as_o well_o as_o in_o public_a church_n over_o exercise_n there_o as_o well_o as_o those_o in_o the_o public_a place_n so_o 4._o voetius_fw-la we_o reject_v that_o novelty_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n that_o the_o magistrate_n have_v no_o power_n in_o private_a meeting_n but_o only_o in_o public_a temple_n now_o whether_o you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n concern_v your_o private_a meeting_n or_o only_o over_o the_o public_a meeting_n or_o whether_o you_o do_v not_o with_o the_o arminian_n make_v the_o ground_n of_o this_o power_n in_o the_o magistrate_n the_o grant_n of_o a_o public_a meetingplace_n i_o desire_v to_o be_v satisfy_v from_o you_o but_o by_o all_o this_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o these_o particular_n you_o do_v not_o give_v more_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n for_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v what_o you_o give_v and_o not_o only_o so_o but_o they_o give_v that_o which_o you_o deny_v and_o so_o give_v more_o than_o you_o but_o brethren_n wherein_o and_o in_o what_o do_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o have_v you_o express_v wherein_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o in_o what_o their_o principle_n be_v defective_a and_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o you_o have_v deal_v fair_o and_o ingenious_o and_o a_o man_n may_v have_v know_v where_o to_o have_v have_v you_o and_o how_o to_o have_v answer_v you_o but_o to_o accuse_v thus_o in_o the_o general_a and_o not_o to_o signify_v the_o crime_n be_v not_o just_a but_o as_o you_o do_v throughout_o your_o apology_n under_o the_o figge-leaves_a of_o dark_a doubtful_a general_a speech_n cover_v your_o opinion_n lest_o your_o nakedness_n shall_v appear_v so_o in_o this_o place_n but_o not_o to_o let_v you_o go_v away_o thus_o but_o that_o i_o may_v drive_v you_o out_o of_o your_o hole_n and_o thicket_n and_o divest_v you_o of_o your_o cover_n and_o that_o i_o may_v a_o little_a take_v off_o the_o odium_n and_o suspicion_n that_o presbyterial_a government_n may_v lie_v under_o among_o many_o who_o know_v not_o their_o principle_n by_o reason_n of_o this_o passage_n of_o you_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o will_v propound_v some_o question_n to_o you_o to_o draw_v out_o what_o you_o hold_v about_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n and_o to_o give_v some_o further_a light_n for_o the_o present_a of_o the_o presbyterian_a principle_n concern_v the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n referve_v the_o particular_a lay_v down_o what_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n and_o what_o not_o till_o my_o rejoynder_n shall_v come_v out_o to_o your_o reply_n 1._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n about_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n be_v a_o power_n extrinsecall_v objective_n coercive_a indirect_a mediate_a accidental_a and_o consequent_a or_o spiritual_a intrinsical_n formal_a proper_a and_o antecedent_n now_o concern_v the_o first_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v as_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o you_o nay_o more_o as_o have_v be_v partly_o show_v already_o but_o for_o the_o other_o the_o spiritual_a intrinsical_v formal_a etc._n etc._n if_o you_o ascribe_v that_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o i_o think_v you_o do_v not_o nor_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o yield_v it_o unless_o according_a to_o your_o second_o great_a principle_n lay_v down_o in_o the_o 10._o and_o 11._o page_n you_o be_v since_o the_o assembly_n to_o please_v the_o parliament_n the_o more_o as_o you_o may_v imagine_v come_v off_o from_o your_o former_a judgement_n and_o practice_n i_o do_v refer_v you_o for_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o three_o most_o learned_a select_a disputation_n of_o ecclesiastica_fw-la voetius_fw-la and_o unto_o debet_fw-la waâ—…us_o excellent_a answer_n to_o the_o tractate_n of_o uttengobardus_fw-la so_o strong_a that_o the_o author_n can_v never_o reply_v again_o though_o in_o a_o book_n publish_v he_o promise_v to_o do_v it_o and_o unto_o circasacra_fw-la apollonius_n learned_a answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la dissertation_n 2._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o the_o civil_a power_n do_v contain_v the_o ecclesiastical_a formal_o and_o eminent_o so_o as_o that_o power_n can_v give_v and_o produce_v the_o other_o or_o whether_o there_o be_v a_o intrinsical_a dependence_n of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a upon_o the_o political_a in_o their_o nature_n form_n and_o exercise_v of_o they_o or_o whether_o there_o do_v not_o reside_v in_o the_o church_n all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o the_o build_n up_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o salvation_n of_o man_n even_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n 3._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o in_o write_v this_o passage_n of_o your_o apology_n you_o consider_v and_o remember_v all_o those_o difference_n and_o distinction_n give_v by_o so_o many_o excellent_a divine_n as_o junius_n zanchius_n amesius_n etc._n etc._n concern_v those_o two_o power_n civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a and_o their_o administration_n and_o in_o particular_a among_o the_o rest_n that_o difference_n take_v from_o their_o 4._o matter_n and_o the_o subject_n wherein_o they_o make_v the_o subject_n of_o political_a administration_n to_o be_v humane_a thing_n and_o matter_n but_o of_o ecclesiastical_a to_o be_v divine_a and_o sacred_a and_o if_o so_o whether_o do_v not_o presbyterian_o according_a to_o those_o difference_n and_o distinction_n which_o distinction_n be_v acknowledge_v also_o by_o yourselves_o as_o by_o m._n robinson_n and_o by_o some_o of_o you_o in_o your_o print_a book_n as_o i_o remember_v give_v the_o magistrate_n that_o power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n which_o be_v give_v he_o in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n 4._o consider_v all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o right_n be_v common_o by_o divine_n reduce_v to_o a_o threefold_a head_n namely_o potestas_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o of_o these_o power_n do_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o or_o in_o all_o of_o they_o do_v you_o give_v more_o or_o do_v you_o not_o for_o the_o present_a that_o power_n you_o seem_v to_o give_v the_o magistrate_n and_o intimate_v it_o that_o you_o give_v more_o than_o the_o presâ—…eriall_a principle_n allow_v as_o may_v be_v gather_v from_o the_o follow_a word_n in_o p._n 19_o &_o from_o those_o word_n in_o p._n 17._o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o a_o other_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a coguizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o must_v fall_v under_o the_o last_o head_n of_o the_o power_n of_o judge_v and_o determine_v in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a and_o that_o upon_o
concern_v which_o question_n it_o be_v a_o point_n that_o i_o have_v not_o much_o study_v i_o shall_v not_o declare_v my_o judgement_n in_o it_o but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n it_o seem_v that_o in_o the_o thing_n of_o jehovah_n the_o last_o judgement_n do_v belong_v to_o the_o chief_a ecclesiastical_a assembly_n which_o sit_v at_o jerusalem_n deut._n 17._o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12_o 13_o verse_n as_o junius_n in_o his_o analisis_fw-la illustrate_v that_o place_n and_o the_o argument_n bring_v by_o apollonius_n in_o this_o point_n septimae_fw-la with_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la argument_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o strength_n in_o they_o and_o i_o entreat_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n if_o you_o will_v formal_o own_o the_o give_n of_o this_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n that_o you_o will_v answer_v that_o second_o chapter_n of_o apollonius_n but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o conclusion_n of_o the_o comparison_n of_o the_o effectualness_n between_o the_o two_o way_n suppose_v all_o you_o say_v of_o submission_n non-communion_n protestation_n be_v true_a as_o also_o that_o you_o do_v give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_a and_o that_o in_o spiritual_a matter_n in_o case_n of_o difference_n injury_n etc._n etc._n you_o will_v from_o the_o church_n have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o submit_v to_o his_o judgement_n and_o that_o you_o do_v allow_v and_o will_v stand_v to_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o they_o judge_v meet_v notwithstanding_o you_o have_v determine_v it_o that_o without_o all_o controversy_n your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v yet_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o it_o fall_v far_o short_a of_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n both_o in_o prevent_v and_o remedy_v sin_n error_n offence_n and_o in_o promote_a knowledge_n godliness_n and_o peace_n in_o the_o church_n for_o suppose_v non-communion_n of_o church_n be_v a_o way_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o remedy_n the_o contrary_a to_o which_o i_o have_v at_o large_a show_v yet_o you_o must_v confess_v it_o be_v but_o a_o low_a remedy_n not_o a_o authoritative_a powererfull_a dreadful_a remedy_n and_o mean_n like_o that_o of_o excommunication_n which_o be_v the_o high_a and_o great_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n the_o church_n thunderbolt_n and_o anathema_n a_o remedy_n and_o last_v mean_n which_o recover_v a_o sinner_n when_o all_o other_o will_v not_o as_o admonition_n suspension_n deposition_n and_o so_o when_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n will_v not_o in_o the_o scripture_n be_v lay_v down_o many_o eminent_a fruit_n and_o effect_n of_o excommunication_n in_o the_o people_n of_o god_n which_o be_v not_o of_o any_o censure_n else_o and_o i_o may_v fill_v a_o book_n with_o the_o end_n benefit_n and_o fruit_n of_o this_o censure_n lay_v down_o by_o divine_n in_o their_o tractate_v and_o common_a place_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o excommunication_n but_o i_o will_v name_v only_o that_o of_o the_o professor_n of_o leyden_n 59_o excommunication_n be_v the_o last_o remedy_n and_o the_o sharp_a for_o the_o subdue_a of_o the_o flesh_n in_o a_o man_n and_o for_o the_o quicken_a of_o the_o spirit_n and_o the_o most_o efficacious_a example_n lest_o the_o sound_a part_n shall_v be_v corrupt_v but_o against_o they_o who_o persevere_v in_o their_o contumacy_n and_o impenitency_n it_o be_v the_o only_a mean_n to_o free_v the_o house_n of_o god_n of_o leaven_n and_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n from_o scandal_n and_o so_o to_o vindicate_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n from_o profanation_n and_o the_o name_n of_o god_n from_o the_o blaspheme_n of_o they_o without_o now_o pray_v show_v we_o in_o the_o scripture_n any_o where_o the_o excellent_a fruit_n benefit_n end_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n against_o they_o as_o we_o can_v of_o excommunication_n in_o 1_o cor._n 5._o 5._o 2_o cor._n 2._o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10._o 2_o thess._n 3._o 14._o 1_o tim._n 1._o 20._o and_o then_o for_o that_o other_o remedy_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n add_v to_o non-communion_n to_o eke_o out_o wherein_o non-communion_n may_v be_v defective_a to_o excommunication_n and_o for_o that_o purpose_n you_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o so_o what_o you_o fail_v and_o come_v short_a in_o ecclesiastical_a power_n you_o may_v make_v it_o up_o in_o give_v more_o civil_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n the_o result_n of_o which_o must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o though_o in_o your_o churchway_n you_o have_v not_o so_o much_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n for_o miscarriage_n and_o for_o reduce_v church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n and_o schism_n yet_o you_o give_v more_o civil_a power_n and_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n more_o to_o interpose_v for_o help_v and_o reduce_v so_o that_o less_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o authority_n with_o a_o large_a civil_a power_n to_o back_o it_o will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o much_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n with_o a_o small_a civil_a power_n but_o of_o this_o i_o shall_v show_v you_o your_o mistake_n because_o the_o question_n be_v of_o church_n matter_n and_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o the_o inward_a man_n and_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n now_o the_o remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o these_o be_v spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a namely_o spiritual_a punishment_n christ_n say_v my_o kingdom_n be_v not_o of_o this_o world_n and_o the_o apostle_n 2_o cor._n 10._o 3_o 4_o 5._o the_o weapon_n of_o our_o warfare_n be_v not_o carnal_a but_o mighty_a through_o god_n to_o the_o pull_v down_o of_o strong_a hold_n by_o which_o the_o spirit_n and_o the_o inward_a man_n even_o every_o thought_n be_v subject_v to_o the_o obedience_n of_o christ_n spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n must_v be_v use_v in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o they_o christ_n do_v his_o work_n and_o hence_o in_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o those_o scandal_n in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o point_n in_o hand_n punishment_n in_o the_o body_n or_o in_o the_o purse_n etc._n etc._n which_o can_v be_v by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n have_v no_o place_n at_o all_o sanctificata_fw-la neither_o can_v such_o mean_n which_o be_v of_o a_o different_a kind_n from_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n produce_v those_o effect_n which_o belong_v 10â—…_n to_o that_o heavenly_a kingdom_n it_o be_v out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o the_o activity_n of_o the_o political_a magistrate_n to_o subdue_v the_o inward_a man_n or_o to_o inflict_v spiritual_a punishment_n upon_o the_o conscience_n and_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o common_a in_o the_o write_n of_o the_o most_o learned_a and_o orthodox_n divine_v then_o to_o show_v that_o the_o civil_a power_n and_o government_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o ecclesiastical_a government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v toto_fw-la genere_fw-la disjoin_v and_o thereupon_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n by_o which_o he_o deal_v with_o the_o corrupt_a manner_n and_o disorder_n of_o his_o people_n be_v in_o the_o nature_n and_o specifical_a reason_n distinct_a from_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n by_o which_o he_o punish_v sin_n do_v not_o subserve_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n the_o mediator_n that_o he_o may_v apply_v efficacious_o to_o the_o elect_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o priestly_a office_n of_o christ_n he_o do_v not_o affect_v the_o inward_a man_n and_o conscience_n with_o spiritual_a punishment_n neither_o be_v this_o institute_v of_o god_n and_o sanctify_a as_o the_o mean_n for_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o flesh_n that_o the_o spirit_n may_v be_v save_v in_o the_o day_n of_o christ._n hence_o also_o by_o divine_n the_o manifold_a difference_n between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o magistrate_n be_v observe_v eccl._n zanchius_n do_v accurate_o show_v the_o difference_n between_o they_o the_o cause_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o the_o punishment_n of_o sin_n but_o the_o salvation_n of_o the_o sinner_n and_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n but_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n be_v that_o he_o shall_v punish_v the_o sin_n itself_o neither_o dâ—…th_n it_o look_v to_o the_o salvation_n or_o damnation_n of_o the_o offender_n whereupon_o although_o the_o sinner_n repent_v yet_o he_o do_v not_o spare_v but_o punish_v according_a to_o his_o office_n but_o the_o church_n according_a to_o christ_n doctrine_n do_v not_o strike_v with_o the_o spiritual_a sword_n unless_o he_o be_v impenitent_a neither_o be_v this_o do_v for_o death_n but_o for_o salvation_n
therefore_o where_o any_o one_o repâ—…nts_n the_o church_n receive_v he_o so_o that_o in_o substitute_v the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o civil_a power_n for_o want_n of_o spiritual_a to_o make_v it_o as_o available_a for_o those_o spiritual_a end_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o leave_v the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n and_o to_o take_v up_o other_o and_o i_o will_v desire_v you_o to_o answer_v i_o whether_o the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o such_o end_n and_o use_n or_o the_o improper_a remedy_n nay_o remedy_n appoint_v and_o intend_v main_o for_o other_o end_n be_v most_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o accomplish_v those_o end_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o part_n of_o a_o proper_a remedy_n be_v assist_v and_o back_v with_o a_o great_a proportion_n of_o a_o remedy_n of_o another_o nature_n and_o kind_n can_v be_v as_o effectual_a as_o the_o whole_a remedy_n and_o mean_n as_o for_o instance_n whether_o a_o little_a grace_n assist_v by_o civility_n and_o fairness_n of_o nature_n will_v do_v as_o much_o to_o overcome_v lust_n and_o destroy_v the_o flesh_n as_o the_o high_a degree_n of_o grace_n that_o saint_n may_v attain_v unto_o and_o whether_o a_o little_a spiritual_a knowledge_n second_v with_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o common_a and_o outward_a ecclesiast_n knowledge_n be_v as_o available_a for_o a_o christian_a conversation_n as_o great_a measure_n of_o spiritual_a knowledge_n though_o a_o man_n have_v but_o a_o little_a knowledge_n in_o philosophy_n physic_n law_n etc._n etc._n but_o more_o particular_o to_o let_v you_o see_v that_o your_o recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o that_o of_o excommunication_n and_o presbyterial_a government_n i_o shall_v commend_v to_o your_o consideration_n these_o eight_o follow_v particular_n first_o there_o may_v be_v many_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n meddle_v not_o with_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o his_o cognisance_n if_o you_o will_v have_v recourse_n to_o he_o or_o if_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v pronounce_v against_o a_o church_n because_o of_o impenitency_n in_o they_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v to_o assist_v and_o back_o it_o there_o be_v no_o law_n for_o such_o thing_n which_o yet_o be_v spiritual_a evil_n and_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n shall_v be_v deal_v with_o to_o recover_v man_n out_o of_o they_o learned_a zanchius_n in_o his_o difference_n that_o he_o give_v between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o magistrate_n censure_n observe_v this_o for_o a_o special_a one_o there_o be_v many_o wickedness_n against_o which_o the_o magistrate_n true_o christian_n do_v not_o use_v to_o proceed_v neither_o be_v bind_v by_o his_o law_n as_o for_o instance_n private_a fall_n out_o hatred_n &c_n &c_n as_o also_o many_o evil_a manner_n both_o domestical_a and_o public_a which_o do_v not_o disturb_v the_o public_a peace_n or_o the_o public_a good_a but_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o bare_a these_o but_o to_o correct_v they_o according_a to_o christ_n institution_n now_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n here_o your_o recourse_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n with_o the_o magistrate_n back_v non-communion_n fail_v you_o and_o conduce_v nothing_o at_o all_o second_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v of_o those_o church_n and_o chief_a in_o those_o sin_n and_o miscarriage_n for_o which_o non-communion_n be_v denounce_v against_o those_o church_n as_o may_v easy_o fall_v out_o how_o will_v you_o have_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n now_o back_v and_o assist_v both_o those_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n member_n of_o they_o shall_v have_v nothing_o to_o back_o non-communion_n to_o make_v it_o equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n nay_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o who_o bring_v in_o more_o of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o excommunication_n where_o the_o particular_a church_n will_v not_o and_o the_o class_n may_v not_o what_o shall_v be_v do_v with_o the_o magistrate_n offend_v what_o mean_n have_v god_n leave_v for_o the_o recovery_n of_o they_o you_o can_v imagine_v they_o will_v make_v use_n of_o their_o power_n against_o themselves_o now_o if_o they_o may_v not_o have_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o censure_n as_o of_o excommunication_n this_o principle_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n fall_v short_a here_o whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n there_o be_v a_o remedy_n and_o redress_v for_o all_o and_o certain_o god_n way_n of_o govern_v his_o church_n provide_v for_o all_o whereas_o you_o fall_v short_a 3._o what_o if_o upon_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n denounce_v against_o a_o church_n or_o church_n the_o magistrate_n judge_v otherwise_o and_o hold_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n unjust_a and_o will_v not_o assist_v it_o which_o may_v ordinary_o fall_v out_o what_o effectual_a mean_n have_v the_o offend_a church_n of_o be_v reduce_v now_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n may_v the_o magistrate_n revoke_v that_o sentence_n of_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o declare_v it_o null_a and_o cause_v the_o church_n who_o pass_v the_o sentence_n to_o recall_v it_o and_o to_o continue_v their_o communion_n and_o suppose_v those_o church_n will_v not_o revoke_v it_o but_o stand_v to_o their_o act_n what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n who_o must_v judge_v now_o between_o these_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n may_v the_o magistrate_n now_o by_o his_o power_n which_o you_o give_v he_o in_o ecclesiastical_n instead_o of_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o a_o church_n miscarry_v as_o the_o church_n suppose_v now_o turn_v his_o power_n against_o the_o church_n for_o denounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n vojust_o as_o the_o magistrate_n judge_v and_o not_o only_o declare_v it_o void_a but_o punish_v this_o church_n or_o church_n for_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o declare_v and_o protest_v to_o all_o other_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o if_o all_o the_o church_n protest_v to_o will_v continue_v to_o renounce_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n censure_v with_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n notwithstanding_o the_o magistrate_n refuse_v to_o assist_v that_o sentence_n nay_o though_o he_o declare_v it_o void_a or_o what_o if_o upon_o the_o magistrate_n declaration_n some_o of_o the_o church_n give_v the_o righ-hand_n of_o fellowship_n again_o but_o other_o will_v not_o what_o must_v the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o church_n do_v in_o these_o case_n and_o the_o like_a consider_v well_o of_o it_o whether_o this_o effectual_a way_n of_o you_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n instead_o of_o a_o powerful_a mean_n to_o relieve_v injure_a person_n or_o reduce_v church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o mean_n of_o great_a difference_n and_o division_n as_o well_o between_o the_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n as_o between_o the_o church_n themselves_o 4._o must_v the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o persist_v therein_o upon_o the_o come_n of_o it_o to_o he_o and_o so_o punish_v it_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o he_o judge_n meet_v without_o first_o hear_v what_o the_o church_n can_v say_v for_o itself_o or_o must_v he_o first_o hear_v they_o both_o and_o in_o case_n more_o church_n mutual_o renounce_v communion_n with_o one_o another_o and_o protest_v against_o each_o other_o with_o other_o particular_n instance_a in_o about_o the_o remedy_n of_o non-communion_n under_o the_o four_o general_a head_n what_o shall_v he_o do_v in_o these_o case_n must_v he_o hear_v all_o 5._o what_o magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n do_v you_o mean_v to_o who_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n you_o will_v have_v recourse_n unto_o and_o that_o must_v assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v you_o mean_v the_o supreme_a and_o chief_a magistrate_n the_o high_a power_n only_o or_o all_o inferior_a magistrate_n in_o their_o several_a station_n and_o division_n where_o these_o thing_n fall_v out_o as_o major_n of_o city_n and_o town_n justice_n of_o peace_n and_o such_o magistrate_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v the_o christian_n protestant_n magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_n popish_a arrian_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n erect_v in_o every_o division_n of_o the_o county_n to_o hear_v the_o difference_n that_o fall_v out_o between_o church_n offend_v one_o with_o another_o etc._n etc._n or_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v if_o you_o understand_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n
only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o
to_o their_o minister_n and_o pastor_n with_o other_o such_o like_a 8._o but_o in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o difference_n upon_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v his_o power_n what_o be_v it_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o and_o what_o will_v you_o allow_v he_o to_o do_v and_o what_o be_v that_o power_n you_o will_v give_v he_o in_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n upon_o his_o judgement_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o how_o far_o and_o in_o what_o will_v you_o obey_v he_o that_o so_o we_o may_v understand_v how_o this_o civil_a power_n be_v intend_v by_o you_o for_o a_o remedy_n and_o help_v in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n for_o instance_n will_v you_o submit_v not_o to_o gather_v church_n nor_o set_v up_o assembly_n withoâ—…â—…is_o leave_v and_o upon_o complaint_n of_o the_o many_o mischief_n and_o difference_n occasion_v thereupon_o will_v you_o upon_o his_o hear_v both_o side_n and_o judge_v that_o those_o who_o be_v gather_v shall_v be_v dissolve_v dissolve_v they_o and_o not_o meet_v in_o those_o way_n any_o more_o will_v you_o upon_o some_o member_n complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n of_o some_o minister_n or_o minister_n in_o their_o church_n for_o preach_v erroneous_a and_o unprofitable_a doctrine_n mere_a novelty_n subtlety_n and_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n judge_v that_o he_o shall_v preach_v no_o more_o will_v the_o minister_n forbear_v upon_o it_o or_o the_o church_n to_o hear_v he_o in_o case_n the_o minister_n will_v not_o yield_v will_v the_o church_n now_o go_v choose_v a_o new_a and_o orthodox_n minister_n upon_o it_o or_o in_o case_n a_o member_n or_o more_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v and_o they_o complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n who_o call_v the_o church_n to_o account_v and_o hear_v both_o side_n shall_v judge_v on_o the_o complaiants_n side_n and_o now_o order_v the_o church_n to_o absolve_v he_o and_o order_v they_o to_o confess_v their_o sin_n public_o and_o appoint_v they_o to_o keep_v a_o day_n of_o humiliation_n for_o it_o and_o order_v they_o to_o give_v he_o such_o a_o sum_n of_o money_n for_o the_o wrong_n trouble_n and_o loss_n of_o his_o time_n in_o follow_v the_o business_n against_o they_o will_v the_o church_n now_o submit_v to_o do_v all_o this_o yea_o or_o no_o what_o say_v you_o to_o these_o and_o the_o like_a case_n now_o i_o ask_v you_o this_o in_o the_o close_a because_o you_o pretend_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v he_o much_o power_n which_o though_o you_o do_v grant_v yet_o for_o the_o many_o reason_n and_o ground_n already_o specify_v this_o will_v not_o countervail_v the_o way_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o their_o spiritual_a censure_n by_o presbyter_n and_o synod_n whether_o you_o clear_o and_o plain_o allow_v this_o to_o the_o magistrate_n because_o i_o find_v in_o manuscript_n and_o hear_v that_o in_o sermon_n by_o man_n of_o your_o churchway_n the_o contrary_a be_v public_o preach_v and_o hold_v as_o for_o example_n in_o that_o treatise_n about_o a_o church_n which_o go_v under_o one_o of_o your_o name_n there_o be_v this_o passage_n with_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n the_o saint_n need_v not_o expect_v their_o power_n or_o leave_v for_o to_o gather_v together_o so_o as_o without_o it_o such_o a_o combination_n be_v unlawful_a nor_o shall_v they_o forbear_v it_o out_o of_o conscience_n of_o the_o magistrate_n prohibition_n indeed_o if_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v force_v or_o compel_v they_o to_o forbear_v or_o persecute_v they_o they_o may_v forbear_v actual_a assemble_v act._n 8._o 1._o not_o because_o the_o magistrate_n forbid_v it_o but_o in_o mercy_n to_o themselves_o and_o indeed_o about_o a_o church_n christian_n magistrate_n have_v no_o more_o power_n then_o heathen_a magistrate_n have_v so_o that_o this_o be_v speak_v by_o you_o where_o magistrate_n be_v christian_n and_o where_o church_n be_v already_o settle_v and_o add_v to_o this_o that_o m._n s._n in_o his_o reply_n in_o defence_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v against_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o that_o you_o all_o hold_v a_o toleration_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n ought_v not_o to_o hinder_v man_n or_o punish_v they_o for_o the_o matter_n of_o their_o conscience_n how_o then_o notwithstanding_o all_o your_o discourse_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n which_o add_v to_o non-communion_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o relieve_v person_n injure_v to_o reduce_v church_n and_o person_n go_v in_o schism_n and_o error_n shall_v person_n injure_v be_v remedy_v or_o church_n and_o person_n reduce_v for_o suppose_v the_o person_n or_o church_n that_o now_o fall_v into_o such_o error_n and_o schism_n will_v pretend_v nay_o it_o be_v so_o real_o that_o they_o in_o their_o conscience_n hold_v error_n for_o truth_n and_o thereupon_o withdraw_v from_o such_o church_n to_o other_o nay_o suppose_v those_o who_o now_o receive_v these_o new_a truth_n shall_v cast_v out_o of_o their_o fellowship_n and_o excommunicate_v some_o for_o hold_v otherwise_o as_o for_o instance_n a_o church_n fall_v into_o antinomianisme_n shall_v censure_v some_o of_o their_o member_n that_o remain_v orthodox_n for_o legal_a christian_n and_o for_o be_v enemy_n to_o freegrace_n and_o shall_v judge_v themselves_o bind_v to_o do_v so_o in_o these_o and_o such_o like_a case_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o for_o miscarry_v church_n by_o all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n you_o pretend_v to_o give_v to_o he_o but_o this_o be_v bring_v in_o here_o by_o you_o and_o give_v to_o he_o to_o put_v of_o that_o strong_a argument_n against_o your_o way_n and_o that_o you_o may_v have_v something_o for_o present_a to_o blind_v the_o eye_n and_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o many_o that_o look_v no_o further_o that_o it_o may_v serve_v your_o turn_n at_o such_o a_o straight_o whereas_o upon_o other_o principle_n you_o deny_v the_o magistrate_n this_o when_o it_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o now_o by_o all_o the_o several_a particular_n under_o this_o five_o head_n the_o understand_a reader_n may_v observe_v that_o not_o only_o in_o many_o respect_v your_o non-communion_n and_o magistrate_n power_n be_v not_o a_o remedy_n comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n not_o proper_a nor_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o thing_n in_o question_n a_o way_n in_o stead_n of_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o end_n redress_v and_o mend_v matter_n amiss_o that_o will_v be_v but_o the_o begin_n of_o more_o strife_n and_o make_v more_o difference_n and_o evil_n then_o either_o it_o sinde_n or_o can_v heal_v the_o mother_n and_o nurse_n of_o confusion_n disorder_n and_o endless_a contention_n but_o also_o that_o all_o the_o power_n here_o pretend_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o examination_n be_v no_o such_o matter_n nor_o will_v not_o amount_v to_o make_v good_a the_o end_n propound_v whereas_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n here_o scandalize_v as_o either_o whole_o inconsistent_a with_o this_o form_n of_o civil_a government_n or_o else_o not_o give_v it_o its_o due_a will_v be_v find_v by_o its_o principle_n not_o only_o to_o have_v powerful_a spiritual_a remedy_n for_o all_o spiritual_a evil_n of_o the_o church_n but_o will_v be_v find_v in_o many_o respect_n to_o make_v use_n of_o and_o to_o give_v honour_n and_o power_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o a_o nurse_n father_n from_o first_o to_o last_o even_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n of_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n beyond_o you_o beside_o what_o they_o give_v more_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n in_o a_o church_n miserable_o corrupt_v disorder_a etc._n etc._n of_o which_o the_o reader_n may_v read_v at_o large_a in_o apollonius_n who_o be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a cap._n 2._o and_o so_o learned_a 83._o zanchius_n in_o his_o tractate_n de_fw-fr magistratis_n show_v it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n not_o to_o suffer_v heretic_n nor_o erroneous_a person_n to_o preach_v and_o he_o give_v he_o coactive_a punitive_a power_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o beza_n a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o his_o epistle_n and_o other_o write_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n do_v not_o exclude_v the_o magistrate_n but_o give_v he_o that_o power_n in_o some_o thing_n which_o you_o deny_v but_o beside_o that_o power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n they_o stand_v for_o as_o needful_a in_o the_o church_n class_n and_o synod_n for_o the_o government_n of_o it_o zanchy_a show_v that_o discipline_n can_v 713._o take_v place_n where_o the_o minister_n never_o meet_v together_o the_o meâ—…ting_n of_o minister_n and_o ecclesiastical_a synod_n we_o judge_v most_o necessary_a as_o no_o polity_n commonwealth_n or_o kingdom_n can_v consist_v without_o their_o meeting_n senate_n and_o counsel_n
so_o there_o be_v need_n of_o synod_n for_o the_o govern_n of_o the_o church_n and_o for_o the_o prevent_n of_o herâ—…fies_v in_o a_o word_n all_o thing_n be_v loose_a in_o independent_a government_n every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n if_o they_o like_v not_o any_o church_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n they_o may_v go_v to_o another_o nay_o a_o few_o in_o a_o church_n dislike_a that_o church_n may_v go_v make_v a_o church_n themselves_o and_o make_v minister_n and_o hold_v what_o they_o will_v as_o mr_n sympson_n do_v with_o some_o few_o more_o and_o since_o some_o have_v rend_v from_o mr_n sympson_n church_n as_o he_o from_o mr_n bridge_n the_o rule_v they_o go_v by_o be_v loose_a nothing_o be_v fix_v nor_o certain_a among_o they_o and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o settledness_n of_o mind_n nor_o consistence_n of_o principle_n in_o that_o way_n simple_a and_o well_o mean_v people_n according_a to_o their_o principle_n must_v be_v draw_v till_o they_o come_v to_o that_o to_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v no_o true_a church_n nor_o minister_n at_o all_o yet_o upon_o the_o earth_n which_o principle_n begin_v to_o take_v and_o spread_v already_o among_o many_o independent_o in_o a_o word_n that_o liberty_n and_o looseness_n which_o be_v from_o first_o to_o last_o in_o independent_a government_n hold_v no_o authoritative_a ecclesiastical_a power_n out_o of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o remedy_n or_o prevent_v any_o matter_n and_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n be_v on_o many_o ground_n and_o principle_n of_o they_o so_o slight_a and_o weak_a as_o the_o only_a subject_n of_o excommunication_n be_v no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n than_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n as_o that_o two_o or_o three_o saint_n or_o now_o of_o late_a six_o or_o seven_o may_v withdraw_v from_o church_n defective_a and_o impure_a and_o make_v church_n and_o choose_v all_o officer_n etc._n etc._n with_o other_o like_a so_o that_o what_o need_v they_o care_v then_o for_o that_o church_n of_o which_o they_o be_v member_n though_o cast_v out_o see_v they_o can_v make_v new_a and_o have_v all_o to_o their_o own_o mind_n be_v chief_a there_o be_v a_o dangerous_a temptation_n even_o to_o sober_a man_n to_o make_v they_o presume_v to_o broach_v that_o practise_v that_o which_o else_o they_o will_v never_o have_v do_v but_o in_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n there_o be_v consistence_n unity_n and_o strength_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o a_o hundred_o year_n visible_a experience_n of_o god_n blessing_n from_o heaven_n upon_o they_o there_o be_v also_o a_o certainty_n and_o fixedness_n of_o rule_n agree_v on_o both_o for_o particular_a congregation_n for_o class_n and_o synod_n there_o be_v a_o aw_v and_o preserve_v of_o officer_n and_o people_n in_o their_o bound_n and_o keep_v they_o from_o run_v out_o to_o error_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o man_n be_v he_o never_o so_o able_a or_o subtle_a that_o can_v escape_v call_v to_o account_n and_o censure_n magistrate_n and_o minister_n have_v their_o power_n in_o the_o church_n without_o usurpation_n and_o confusion_n and_o to_o conclude_v in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n be_v magistrate_n and_o civil_a power_n acquaint_v with_o this_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n they_o will_v find_v their_o authority_n increase_v their_o work_n more_o easy_a and_o their_o place_n more_o comfortable_a thereby_o and_o now_o have_v give_v a_o answer_n to_o that_o part_n of_o your_o apology_n under_o that_o instance_n of_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n by_o speak_v full_o of_o those_o five_o head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o your_o discourse_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n begin_v in_o pag._n 12._o and_o end_v in_o the_o 21._o i_o will_v for_o a_o close_o speak_v something_o to_o some_o of_o your_o passage_n contain_v in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o narration_n which_o can_v not_o so_o well_o be_v take_v in_o nor_o so_o proper_o animadvert_v upon_o under_o those_o five_o head_n without_o the_o reader_n be_v much_o confound_v and_o entangle_v 1._o to_o that_o passage_n p._n 14._o we_o have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o time_n we_o be_v abroad_o three_o elder_n at_o least_o in_o each_o congregation_n who_o we_o be_v subject_a to_o i_o ask_v if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n you_o many_o time_n have_v but_o three_o and_o sometime_o but_o two_o nay_o one_o elder_a the_o government_n of_o your_o church_n then_o be_v either_o monarchical_a government_n or_o oligarchicall_a at_o best_a and_o if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n who_o be_v the_o elder_n subject_n to_o the_o elder_n than_o be_v under_o no_o subjection_n but_o if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n and_o not_o the_o elder_n to_o the_o church_n riddle_n i_o what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o all_o those_o phrase_n the_o church_n still_o do_v so_o and_o so_o not_o the_o elder_n the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n depose_v m._n ward_n and_o not_o m._n bridge_n and_o a_o elder_a or_o two_o and_o so_o m._n nye_n and_o m._n goodwin_n the_o minister_n be_v send_v by_o the_o church_n and_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v confess_v their_o sin_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n to_o his_o place_n again_o which_o sure_o be_v not_o m._n bridge_n and_o a_o lay-elder_n or_o two_o 2._o to_o those_o passage_n of_o church_n offend_v call_v to_o a_o account_n church_n offend_v proceed_v to_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n to_o judiciarie_n charge_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n open_o before_o all_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n as_o can_v be_v expect_v in_o any_o court_n where_o authority_n about_o they_o enjoin_v it_o and_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v censurable_a by_o neighbour_n church_n about_o they_o i_o desire_v to_o put_v this_o disjunctive_a proposition_n either_o this_o power_n of_o call_v to_o a_o account_n examine_v depose_v witness_n censure_v they_o etc._n etc._n be_v act_n of_o rule_v and_o government_n and_o in_o the_o church_n challenge_v act_n of_o subjection_n or_o they_o be_v not_o if_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v act_n of_o rule_n and_o government_n than_o there_o be_v a_o authoritative_a power_n which_o church_n have_v out_o of_o their_o church_n and_o you_o grant_v it_o in_o such_o act_n at_o least_o though_o not_o in_o that_o of_o excommunication_n but_o whether_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o these_o that_o of_o excommunication_n will_v not_o follow_v let_v it_o be_v consider_v for_o either_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o found_v upon_o the_o common_a ground_n on_o which_o calling_n to_o account_n and_o some_o censure_n be_v or_o else_o there_o be_v some_o proper_a peculiar_a ground_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o that_o ordinance_n or_o in_o the_o scripture_n forbid_v that_o though_o allow_v other_o neither_o of_o which_o will_v be_v find_v to_o have_v a_o foundation_n in_o scripture_n and_o if_o so_o why_o then_o do_v you_o make_v all_o this_o ado_n of_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n within_o yourselves_o and_o be_v against_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n in_o class_n and_o presbytery_n to_o do_v that_o constant_o certain_o and_o present_o upon_o scandal_n that_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o church_n which_o you_o do_v at_o best_a but_o at_o uncertainty_n and_o after_o a_o long_a time_n when_o the_o remedy_n may_v come_v too_o late_o a_o year_n or_o two_o afterward_o but_o if_o you_o answer_v these_o be_v no_o act_n of_o government_n and_o rule_n in_o this_o church_n or_o church_n but_o mere_o act_n of_o consultation_n advice_n persuasion_n and_o that_o when_o the_o church_n offend_v have_v hear_v all_o they_o only_o give_v their_o counsel_n and_o advice_n and_o commend_v it_o to_o they_o but_o it_o be_v in_o their_o liberty_n to_o do_v or_o not_o to_o do_v for_o though_o they_o submit_v to_o a_o hear_n and_o open_a trial_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n yet_o they_o submit_v not_o to_o stand_v to_o the_o determination_n and_o agreement_n of_o that_o church_n or_o church_n i_o answer_v if_o you_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n in_o all_o this_o and_o no_o power_n of_o authoritative_a determination_n and_o decision_n this_o be_v no_o more_o nor_o you_o give_v no_o more_o to_o the_o church_n offend_v then_o to_o particular_a christian_n who_o may_v counsel_v they_o in_o such_o case_n and_o why_o then_o do_v you_o hold_v out_o such_o word_n and_o your_o practice_n of_o a_o full_a and_o
open_a trial_n and_o what_o speak_v you_o of_o room_n for_o complaint_n and_o of_o subject_v to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o review_v of_o what_o can_v be_v bring_v and_o of_o be_v censurable_a by_o neighbour_n church_n etc._n etc._n whether_o be_v not_o all_o these_o the_o usual_a phrase_n and_o expression_n of_o act_n of_o power_n and_o government_n can_v there_o be_v so_o much_o as_o trial_n and_o examination_n and_o judiciary_n charge_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n without_o authority_n much_o less_o censure_n can_v you_o ever_o show_v it_o either_o in_o civil_a government_n in_o commonwealth_n or_o in_o ecclesiastical_a in_o church_n out_o of_o scripture_n or_o story_n where_o all_o these_o act_n be_v exercise_v and_o practise_v by_o person_n who_o only_o have_v power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n and_o if_o you_o can_v how_o can_v you_o make_v it_o good_a but_o that_o this_o must_v be_v more_o than_o advice_n and_o counsel_n namely_o authoritative_a power_n it_o be_v give_v as_o a_o rule_n by_o yourselves_o that_o in_o matter_n of_o a_o common_a nature_n it_o be_v in_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o civil_a now_o if_o in_o all_o civil_a assembly_n all_o these_o act_n and_o practice_n be_v act_n of_o authority_n and_o government_n why_o hold_v it_o not_o so_o in_o ecclesiastical_a and_o further_o to_o reason_n though_o church_n be_v sister_n and_o equal_v each_o consider_v by_o itself_o yet_o in_o case_n of_o offence_n and_o difference_n between_o church_n the_o church_n complain_v and_o appeal_v unto_o to_o who_o the_o rest_n submit_v shall_v now_o be_v great_a and_o have_v more_o power_n in_o this_o thing_n than_o the_o church_n submit_v and_o their_o act_n shall_v be_v authoritative_a as_o in_o reason_n 6_o or_o 8_o man_n fall_v out_o and_o choose_v and_o submit_v to_o other_o to_o hear_v the_o business_n and_o make_v a_o end_n of_o it_o these_o be_v now_o great_a and_o have_v a_o power_n and_o authority_n over_o these_o quo_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la and_o in_o these_o act_n and_o what_o they_o do_v be_v act_n of_o power_n which_o they_o must_v stand_v unto_o or_o suffer_v the_o penalty_n three_o you_o speak_v more_o than_o once_o upon_o occasion_n of_o this_o scandal_n commit_v in_o that_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n of_o church_n as_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n sister_n church_n to_o be_v consult_v with_o before_o hand_n and_o of_o your_o church_n mutual_o and_o universal_o acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o how_o that_o church_n â—…hich_v with_o other_o be_v most_o scandalize_v do_v by_o letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n and_o of_o require_v a_o full_a and_o public_a hear_n before_o all_o the_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n now_o what_o and_o where_o be_v those_o other_o church_n of_o who_o all_o this_o be_v speak_v i_o grant_v that_o at_o arnheim_n be_v one_o church_n that_o mr_n bridges_n church_n shall_v have_v consult_v with_o or_o have_v submit_v to_o but_o where_o be_v any_o other_o church_n i_o will_v yield_v the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n may_v by_o letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n but_o i_o know_v not_o what_o other_o church_n do_v by_o letter_n do_v the_o like_a i_o grant_v the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n be_v a_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n before_o who_o the_o offend_a church_n do_v yield_v a_o public_a hear_n but_o i_o know_v of_o no_o other_o i_o will_v not_o question_v but_o that_o the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n and_o mr_n bridges_n church_n do_v upon_o the_o offence_n of_o depose_v mr_n ward_n acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o submit_v to_o one_o another_o but_o i_o doubt_v no_o other_o do_v then_o mutual_o submit_v for_o beside_o the_o church_n at_o arnheim_n offend_v and_o mr_n bridges_n church_n offend_v there_o be_v no_o other_o church_n of_o your_o way_n and_o communion_n for_o the_o offend_a church_n to_o consult_v with_o or_o that_o do_v write_v letter_n or_o before_o who_o the_o business_n be_v hear_v etc._n etc._n for_o 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that_o business_n but_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v conceive_v for_o your_o great_a authority_n and_o esteem_n and_o for_o the_o great_a solemnity_n of_o the_o action_n there_o be_v more_o church_n beside_o that_o at_o arnheim_n four_o for_o those_o two_o gentleman_n who_o be_v send_v with_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n offend_v to_o require_v a_o account_n whether_o be_v those_o gentleman_n elder_n of_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n or_o private_a member_n only_o if_o they_o be_v not_o elder_n why_o be_v private_a member_n send_v before_o elder_n show_v we_o a_o rule_n for_o that_o and_o satisfy_v we_o how_o private_a person_n and_o no_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v represent_v the_o church_n but_o if_o they_o be_v elder_n why_o do_v you_o name_v they_o gentleman_n only_o and_o not_o speak_v of_o they_o as_o officer_n 5._o whether_o though_o you_o make_v so_o sure_a of_o it_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v upon_o the_o ground_n of_o reason_n and_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o it_o be_v not_o more_o brotherly_a and_o more_o suit_v to_o that_o liberty_n and_o equality_n christ_n have_v endow_v his_o church_n with_o but_o a_o point_n of_o great_a authority_n inequality_n and_o usurpation_n for_o four_o man_n grant_v they_o to_o be_v a_o church_n representative_a to_o take_v upon_o they_o what_o those_o four_o member_n of_o arnheim_n do_v to_o a_o whole_a church_n for_o so_o many_o day_n so_o full_o and_o judiciary_o to_o proceed_v as_o you_o write_v in_o the_o 21_o page_n then_o for_o a_o whole_a presbytery_n of_o minister_n and_o elder_n or_o a_o grave_a synod_n to_o call_v to_o a_o account_n and_o hear_v the_o offence_n of_o two_o or_o three_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o together_o with_o that_o church_n representative_a to_o decree_v such_o censure_n as_o public_a acknowledgement_n of_o their_o offence_n or_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n six_o i_o much_o wonder_v how_o you_o can_v call_v the_o meeting_n of_o mr_n goodwin_n and_o mr_n nye_n with_o two_o gentleman_n more_o call_z mr_n bridge_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o that_o church_n suppose_v to_o be_v delinquent_n such_o a_o solâ—…mne_a assembly_n the_o solemnity_n of_o which_o have_v leave_v as_o deep_a a_o imprâ—…ssion_n upon_o your_o heart_n of_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o you_o have_v beeâ—…_n present_a at_o certain_o you_o have_v either_o be_v but_o at_o few_o solemn_a assembly_n where_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n have_v be_v or_o else_o your_o fancy_n be_v mighty_a high_a at_o that_o time_n as_o to_o make_v such_o a_o deep_a impression_n upon_o you_o of_o a_o dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o you_o have_v be_v at_o let_v i_o ask_v mr_n nye_n what_o be_v this_o assembly_n beyond_o the_o solemn_a general_a assembly_n of_o scotland_n where_o you_o be_v present_a when_o the_o great_a solemn_a covenant_n of_o the_o kingdom_n pass_v of_o which_o you_o write_v so_o high_o into_o england_n or_o be_v it_o beyond_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n wherein_o not_o only_o two_o of_o you_o be_v for_o consultation_n but_o all_o you_o â—…ive_v with_o so_o many_o other_o godly_a divine_n where_o instead_o of_o two_o gentleman_n assist_v then_o here_o the_o worthy_n of_o both_o house_n lord_n and_o commons_o assist_v nay_o a_o theatre_n of_o all_o other_o the_o most_o judicious_a and_o severe_a where_o much_o of_o the_o piety_n learning_n and_o wisdom_n of_o two_o kingdom_n be_v meet_v in_o one_o as_o yourselves_o confess_v afterward_o in_o the_o 27_o page_n i_o be_o of_o the_o mind_n there_o be_v ordinary_o many_o assembly_n and_o where_o you_o may_v have_v be_v that_o have_v a_o more_o dreadful_a presence_n of_o christ_n then_o that_o have_v the_o church_n meet_v to_o partake_v in_o the_o lord_n supper_n call_v the_o dreadful_a and_o terrible_a hour_n by_o some_o of_o the_o father_n
the_o church_n meet_v to_o excommunicate_v a_o impenitent_a sinner_n where_o there_o be_v a_o promise_n of_o bind_v in_o heaven_n what_o be_v bind_v on_o earth_n which_o you_o can_v show_v in_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n but_o this_o parenthesis_n be_v draw_v in_o in_o the_o relation_n of_o your_o practice_n like_o many_o other_o particular_n in_o this_o book_n to_o take_v with_o the_o simple_a people_n and_o to_o possess_v they_o with_o the_o excellency_n and_o majesty_n of_o your_o congregationall_a way_n beyond_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o synodical_a and_o this_o passage_n here_o with_o many_o other_o in_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n be_v parallel_n to_o passage_n in_o mr_n bachelor_n letter_n who_o after_o his_o sudden_a conversion_n to_o the_o churchway_n for_o want_v of_o better_a argument_n to_o win_v the_o people_n and_o to_o evince_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o churchway_n write_v thus_o for_o i_o stile_n own_o part_n though_o but_o a_o few_o week_n ago_o when_o i_o be_v in_o england_n i_o find_v some_o objection_n in_o my_o spirit_n against_o the_o way_n of_o the_o holland_n church_n and_o conceive_v wrongful_o as_o mr_n edwards_n now_o do_v through_o misunderstand_v cast_v abroad_o by_o they_o who_o sore_a eye_n can_v endure_v the_o light_n of_o truth_n yet_o since_o by_o a_o good_a hand_n of_o providence_n i_o have_v be_v at_o rotterdam_n and_o behold_v the_o beautiful_a face_n of_o holiness_n the_o lively_a representation_n of_o jesus_n christ_n in_o his_o ordinance_n the_o sweet_a and_o bless_a communion_n of_o the_o saint_n in_o all_o love_n and_o dearness_n my_o objection_n be_v remove_v my_o heart_n be_v convince_v and_o i_o think_v many_o thousand_o in_o england_n as_o well_o as_o myself_o will_v soon_o be_v overcome_v at_o the_o very_a sight_n thereof_o a_o soul_n of_o gracious_a ingenuity_n need_v no_o other_o rhetoric_n to_o win_v it_o then_o the_o presence_n of_o these_o heavenly_a administration_n but_o what_o anabaptist_n or_o antinomian_n can_v say_v all_o this_o for_o their_o way_n and_o more_o too_o cry_v out_o the_o ravishment_n of_o the_o spirit_n free_a and_o glorious_a grace_n etc._n etc._n 7._o you_o speak_v of_o consult_v with_o sister_n church_n before_o that_o you_o proceed_v to_o matter_n of_o great_a moment_n and_o that_o you_o profess_v public_o in_o case_n of_o concernment_n you_o ought_v so_o to_o do_v pag._n 16._o and_o yet_o in_o page_n 15._o you_o claim_v a_o full_a and_o entire_a power_n complete_a within_o yourselves_o until_o you_o shall_v be_v challenge_v to_o err_v gross_o now_o how_o do_v these_o agree_v for_o if_o you_o must_v consult_v before_o hand_n then_o it_o be_v not_o a_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n before_o miscarry_v and_o it_o be_v but_o a_o power_n of_o consult_v and_o advise_v after_o miscarriage_n and_o err_a gross_o and_o not_o a_o authoritative_a power_n 8._o whereas_o you_o call_v presbyterial_a excommunication_n excommunication_n 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to_o be_v abhor_v maxim_n that_o any_o religion_n have_v ever_o make_v profession_n of_o etc._n etc._n i_o say_v it_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a flourish_n and_o according_a to_o the_o proverb_n her_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o cry_n but_o a_o little_a wool_n and_o notwithstanding_o all_o these_o swell_a word_n you_o be_v guilty_a indeed_o what_o in_o word_n and_o phrase_n you_o deny_v and_o in_o the_o more_o proper_a place_n when_o i_o shall_v speak_v to_o it_o in_o page_n 23_o of_o your_o apology_n i_o will_v evince_v you_o be_v guilty_a of_o independent_a liberty_n thus_o we_o have_v render_v some_o small_a account_n of_o those_o the_o sad_a apolog._n day_n of_o our_o pilgrimage_n on_o earth_n wherein_o although_o we_o enjoy_v god_n yet_o beside_o many_o other_o misery_n the_o companion_n of_o banishment_n we_o lose_v some_o friend_n and_o companion_n our_o fâ—…llow_a labourer_n in_o the_o gospel_n as_o precious_a man_n as_o this_o earth_n bear_v any_o through_o the_o distemper_n of_o the_o place_n and_o ourselves_o come_v hardly_o off_o that_o service_n with_o our_o health_n yea_o life_n to_o this_o section_n which_o contain_v the_o close_a and_o wind_a up_o of_o that_o part_n of_o your_o narration_n during_o the_o time_n of_o your_o exile_n i_o answer_v it_o be_v a_o small_a account_n indeed_o you_o have_v render_v to_o what_o you_o seem_v to_o hold_v out_o and_o to_o what_o such_o a_o narration_n shall_v have_v amount_v conceal_v â—…nd_n reserve_v so_o much_o of_o your_o practice_n and_o way_n as_o i_o have_v before_o observe_v and_o as_o for_o those_o word_n the_o sad_a day_n of_o our_o pilgrimage_n on_o earth_n etc._n etc._n i_o wonder_v at_o they_o sure_o you_o have_v be_v very_o happy_a man_n and_o have_v enjoy_v many_o very_a good_a day_n that_o in_o your_o whole_a pilgrimage_n on_o earth_n of_o forty_o year_n and_o upward_o those_o three_o or_o four_o year_n in_o holland_n where_o you_o enjoy_v so_o many_o outward_a comfort_n and_o blessing_n shall_v be_v your_o sad_a day_n for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v say_v so_o neither_o be_o i_o satisfy_v in_o those_o word_n beside_o many_o other_o misery_n the_o companion_n of_o banishment_n for_o though_o in_o some_o banishment_n there_o be_v many_o other_o misery_n the_o companion_n of_o they_o as_o deprivation_n of_o wife_n child_n friend_n maintenance_n with_o nakedness_n hunger_n wander_v up_o and_o down_o in_o strange_a and_o desolate_a place_n harsh_a usage_n in_o a_o strange_a land_n yet_o you_o feel_v none_o of_o these_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_a you_o enjoy_v wife_n child_n estate_n suitable_a friend_n good_a house_n full_a fare_n i_o can_v imagine_v few_o misery_n have_v you_o be_v in_o england_n can_v have_v wait_v upon_o you_o than_o do_v there_o unless_o that_o of_o bitter_a division_n and_o deadly_a difference_n the_o constant_a companion_n of_o your_o churchway_n i_o can_v name_v many_o more_o misery_n do_v abide_v some_o of_o we_o that_o stay_v behind_o and_o may_v have_v do_v you_o to_o have_v you_o stay_v in_o england_n as_o for_o those_o two_o instance_a in_o particular_o the_o loss_n of_o some_o friend_n and_o companion_n your_o fellow-labourer_n in_o the_o gospel_n and_o yourselves_o come_v off_o hardly_o with_o your_o health_n yea_o life_n i_o must_v tell_v you_o those_o can_v proper_o and_o true_o be_v call_v the_o companion_n of_o your_o banishment_n for_o those_o two_o minister_n namely_o mr_n archer_n and_o mr_n harris_n according_a to_o all_o reason_n and_o humane_a probability_n may_v not_o have_v live_v long_o in_o england_n both_o of_o they_o as_o it_o be_v well_o know_v have_v be_v long_o weak_a man_n in_o consumption_n and_o sometime_o nigh_o unto_o death_n before_o they_o go_v and_o for_o one_o of_o these_o minister_n mr_n archer_n he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v worse_o that_o he_o grow_v better_a and_o strong_a in_o stomach_n sleep_n strength_n and_o spirit_n after_o he_o go_v over_o into_o holland_n as_o beside_o the_o many_o letter_n write_v into_o england_n to_o friend_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o the_o healthfulness_n of_o that_o place_n where_o he_o be_v with_o some_o of_o you_o and_o of_o the_o increase_n of_o his_o strength_n i_o have_v letter_n write_v to_o i_o under_o his_o own_o hand_n to_o show_v the_o contrary_a to_o what_o you_o affirm_v both_o of_o the_o distemper_n of_o the_o place_n and_o of_o the_o many_o other_o misery_n the_o companion_n of_o that_o banishment_n in_o one_o letter_n he_o write_v thus_o for_o holland_n it_o be_v much_o better_a than_o i_o expect_v for_o pleasantness_n health_n plenty_n of_o flesh_n and_o foul_a we_o alter_v not_o oâ—…r_a english_a diet_n in_o any_o thing_n utrich_n be_v a_o brave_a city_n a_o university_n with_o godly_a professor_n full_a of_o english_a a_o man_n may_v live_v as_o pleasant_o there_o as_o at_o hartford_n and_o in_o another_o my_o stomach_n sleep_n strength_n
you_o may_v call_v it_o exile_n because_o you_o do_v fly_v out_o of_o your_o own_o country_n though_o none_o persecute_v you_o to_o shun_v persecution_n before_o it_o come_v as_o foresee_v possibility_n of_o danger_n yet_o you_o can_v in_o no_o sense_n be_v call_v poor_a exile_n for_o you_o be_v rich_a exile_n who_o in_o holland_n enjoy_v many_o convenience_n and_o such_o abundance_n as_o to_o be_v able_a some_o of_o you_o to_o spend_v 200_o or_o 300._o lb._n per_fw-la annum_fw-la and_o to_o do_v other_o expensive_a act_n which_o for_o present_a i_o forbear_v to_o name_n and_o i_o can_v produce_v letter_n of_o many_o conveniency_n which_o you_o enjoy_v there_o letter_n before_o quote_v by_o i_o of_o m._n archer_n speak_v so_o much_o poor_a exile_n be_v such_o who_o have_v no_o certain_a dwelling-place_n maintenance_n friend_n but_o how_o they_o can_v be_v call_v poor_a exile_n that_o enjoy_v wife_n child_n friend_n full_a and_o liberal_a maintenance_n annual_o liberty_n of_o calling_n 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not_o what_o though_o you_o do_v not_o leave_v they_o as_o antichristian_a babilonish_a as_o false_a and_o untrue_a yet_o if_o you_o leave_v such_o church_n because_o impure_a defective_a under_o bondage_n not_o of_o so_o good_a a_o constitution_n in_o this_o you_o condemn_v they_o and_o so_o be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n i_o ask_v of_o you_o if_o the_o member_n of_o some_o of_o your_o church_n shall_v upon_o ground_n not_o because_o you_o be_v false_a church_n and_o false_a minister_n but_o because_o you_o be_v not_o to_o pure_a as_o some_o other_o nor_o as_o they_o can_v set_v up_o a_o church_n as_o for_o instance_n because_o wicked_a man_n be_v admit_v to_o prayer_n among_o you_o or_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o hymn_n be_v not_o yet_o settle_v in_o all_o your_o church_n etc._n etc._n forsake_v and_o leave_v your_o assembly_n and_o yet_o shall_v open_o profess_v they_o do_v not_o condemn_v your_o church_n as_o no_o church_n but_o only_o join_v to_o church_n of_o a_o pure_a 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we_o and_o the_o reform_a church_n yea_o far_o less_o than_o the_o anabaptist_n or_o some_o sort_n of_o brownist_n do_v from_o you_o now_o than_o i_o put_v this_o dilemma_n to_o you_o whether_o be_v it_o schism_n in_o your_o member_n or_o not_o if_o it_o be_v schism_n in_o they_o and_o they_o may_v not_o leave_v your_o church_n than_o it_o be_v schism_n in_o you_o and_o you_o may_v not_o forsake_v we_o but_o if_o it_o be_v no_o schism_n in_o they_o but_o they_o may_v do_v so_o member_n may_v still_o go_v from_o one_o pure_a church_n to_o a_o pure_a according_a to_o their_o new_a light_n then_o satisfy_v i_o where_o you_o will_v stay_v and_o make_v a_o stand_n and_o what_o be_v schism_n and_o separation_n and_o whether_o a_o great_a gap_n and_o wide_a door_n be_v not_o leave_v open_a for_o schism_n upon_o schism_n and_o separation_n upon_o separation_n from_o your_o church_n to_o the_o brownist_n and_o from_o the_o brownist_n to_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o so_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o 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become_v guilty_a of_o schism_n and_o separation_n without_o such_o distinction_n though_o you_o with_o distinction_n for_o that_o title_n of_o independency_n affix_v unto_o you_o as_o your_o claim_n it_o be_v well_o you_o call_v it_o a_o proud_a and_o insolent_a title_n have_v i_o style_v it_o so_o in_o my_o reason_n against_o independent_a government_n it_o will_v have_v be_v count_v by_o your_o side_n a_o revile_v of_o the_o way_n of_o god_n and_o a_o cast_v great_a reproach_n upon_o christ_n government_n but_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o and_o the_o reader_n a_o good_a account_n for_o that_o title_n affix_v unto_o the_o churchway_n and_o communion_n that_o you_o be_v of_o and_o if_o it_o be_v offensive_a you_o must_v blame_v yourselves_o and_o your_o own_o party_n and_o not_o i_o this_o independency_n and_o independent_a government_n be_v a_o name_n of_o your_o own_o give_v and_o sure_a i_o and_o other_o may_v lawful_o call_v the_o child_n by_o the_o name_n the_o father_n and_o 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divine_n of_o holland_n particular_o voctius_n 66._o and_o a_o learned_a and_o ingenious_a divine_a of_o our_o own_o too_o write_v against_o your_o government_n under_o the_o title_n of_o independency_n who_o book_n contain_v many_o passage_n particular_o refer_v to_o you_o the_o apologist_n and_o so_o â—_o mr_n channel_n who_o candid_o testify_v for_o you_o even_o when_o he_o will_v free_v you_o from_o be_v call_v brownist_n yet_o say_v you_o be_v common_o call_v the_o independent_a minister_n and_o do_v by_o way_n of_o distinction_n from_o the_o reform_a church_n call_v your_o congregation_n independent_a but_o yet_o further_o to_o fasten_v on_o you_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v it_o that_o proud_a and_o insolent_a title_n of_o independency_n however_o that_o you_o disclaim_v the_o title_n here_o and_o in_o other_o page_n 14_o 21_o yet_o you_o acknowledge_v the_o thing_n abundant_o in_o the_o book_n namely_o a_o full_a and_o entire_a power_n complete_a within_o yourselves_o 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in_o as_o much_o as_o lay_v in_o you_o do_v not_o you_o so_o act_v for_o your_o own_o opinion_n and_o church_n way_n that_o you_o will_v have_v hazard_v the_o kingdom_n religion_n and_o all_o rather_o than_o the_o loss_n of_o your_o independency_n which_o you_o know_v the_o scot_n be_v so_o averse_a unto_o 7._o whether_o have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o in_o conference_n with_o many_o good_a people_n and_o by_o discourse_n in_o private_a acâ—…ed_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n by_o stumble_v they_o in_o the_o point_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o in_o the_o point_n of_o come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o by_o plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o opinion_n that_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n and_o do_v none_o of_o you_o remember_v what_o be_v answer_v you_o that_o poligâ—…mie_n may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n and_o must_v that_o be_v tolerate_v 8._o whether_o have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o tamper_v with_o some_o parliament_n man_n about_o delay_v the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o suggest_v to_o they_o doubt_n and_o fear_n about_o it_o and_o whether_o in_o the_o assembly_n have_v you_o not_o by_o all_o possible_a way_n both_o in_o oppose_v some_o order_n of_o speak_v but_o so_o many_o time_n to_o one_o point_n the_o soon_o to_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o end_n and_o by_o other_o way_n all_o that_o you_o can_v delay_v the_o proceed_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o this_o out_o of_o act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n that_o so_o your_o party_n may_v increase_v and_o your_o opinion_n spread_v before_o the_o government_n may_v be_v settle_v 9_o have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o out_o of_o act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n endeavour_v the_o bring_n into_o the_o assembly_n since_o the_o sit_v of_o it_o some_o independent_o to_o be_v member_n of_o it_o and_o upon_o their_o be_v stop_v have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o earnest_o deal_v with_o some_o member_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o that_o they_o may_v 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think_v with_o yourselves_o when_o you_o writâ—…_n these_o passage_n can_v you_o imagine_v you_o dance_v in_o a_o net_n all_o this_o time_n and_o that_o man_n take_v no_o notice_n of_o you_o or_o that_o all_o have_v be_v forget_v that_o you_o have_v do_v and_o preach_v or_o do_v you_o imagine_v your_o power_n be_v so_o great_a with_o the_o people_n have_v such_o a_o name_n that_o all_o will_v be_v take_v for_o truth_n you_o write_v or_o that_o your_o greatness_n be_v such_o that_o no_o man_n dare_v question_v what_o you_o have_v do_v or_o appear_v against_o your_o apology_n or_o if_o they_o do_v they_o shall_v but_o blast_v themselves_o among_o the_o people_n and_o the_o people_n will_v believe_v nothing_o against_o you_o what_o strange_a spirit_n possess_v you_o to_o write_v thus_o for_o my_o part_n i_o fear_v not_o my_o name_n i_o have_v learned_a to_o trust_v god_n with_o it_o and_o i_o dare_v by_o the_o grace_n and_o help_v of_o god_n spirit_n deal_v with_o you_o and_o all_o of_o you_o in_o these_o controversy_n but_o suppose_v all_o you_o affirm_v of_o yourselves_o have_v be_v true_a eujus_fw-la contrarium_fw-la verum_fw-la est_fw-la as_o be_v too_o evident_a by_o what_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o you_o have_v neither_o preach_v print_v nor_o act_v personal_o for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n yet_o all_o this_o forbearance_n may_v have_v be_v not_o from_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n bring_v by_o you_o in_o this_o section_n but_o from_o other_o principle_n of_o wisdom_n and_o policy_n as_o the_o more_o to_o ingratiate_v yourselves_o with_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n and_o to_o insinuate_v into_o their_o favour_n and_o that_o you_o may_v the_o better_o make_v such_o a_o apology_n as_o this_o and_o make_v use_n of_o it_o to_o your_o advantage_n at_o such_o a_o time_n as_o this_o and_o i_o judge_v such_o consideration_n have_v restrain_v some_o of_o you_o and_o prevail_v with_o you_o not_o to_o act_v so_o much_o as_o your_o fellow_n and_o not_o so_o open_o as_o otherwise_o you_o will_v especial_o know_v while_o you_o be_v in_o the_o tiring-house_n unseen_a the_o scene_n be_v full_a and_o the_o tragedy_n go_v on_o there_o be_v no_o want_n of_o actor_n on_o the_o open_a stage_n to_o carry_v on_o your_o church_n way_n as_o for_o instance_n mr_n w._n mr_n p._n mr_n k._n mr_n b._n dr_n h._n mr_n l._n mr_n g._n mr_n c._n mr_n b._n mr_n p._n mr_n g._n mr_n w._n mr_n w._n s._n mr_n c._n mr_n e._n mr_n c._n mr_n a._n mr_n l._n cum_fw-la multis_fw-la aliis_fw-la of_o who_o preach_n and_o act_v for_o themselves_o and_o way_n in_o gather_v of_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o of_o book_n make_v by_o some_o of_o they_o and_o print_v by_o other_o of_o they_o it_o will_v fill_v a_o book_n to_o enumerate_v particular_n and_o to_o declare_v what_o have_v be_v do_v in_o city_n country_n army_n and_o in_o all_o place_n to_o make_v and_o increase_v party_n and_o to_o occasion_n so_o great_a disturbance_n among_o all_o sort_n as_o that_o it_o will_v be_v find_v a_o hard_a work_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o to_o reduce_v the_o people_n and_o i_o confess_v you_o have_v such_o choice_n of_o instrument_n and_o under-worâ—…men_a to_o work_v by_o and_o to_o build_v your_o babel_n i_o marvel_v you_o content_v not_o yourselves_o with_o only_o cast_v the_o model_n and_o give_v the_o pattern_n and_o aim_v to_o other_o but_o that_o you_o shall_v appear_v upon_o the_o work_v yourselves_o as_o oftentime_o you_o do_v to_o your_o second_o main_a part_n in_o this_o section_n the_o provocation_n you_o have_v have_v all_o sort_n of_o way_n to_o have_v preach_v print_v and_o act_v for_o yourselves_o both_o by_o the_o common_a misunderstanding_n and_o misrepresentation_n of_o your_o opinion_n and_o practice_n etc._n etc._n i_o must_v tell_v you_o i_o judge_v and_o that_o upon_o good_a ground_n never_o man_n lay_v all_o thing_n together_o consideratis_fw-la considerandis_fw-la have_v few_o provocation_n for_o consider_v you_o be_v but_o a_o few_o in_o comparison_n and_o go_v in_o a_o new_a different_a way_n from_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o destructivenesse_n of_o your_o principle_n to_o reformation_n with_o the_o danger_n of_o they_o in_o draw_v away_o and_o steal_v our_o sheep_n from_o we_o and_o the_o contempt_n of_o our_o ministry_n occasion_v by_o your_o principle_n among_o all_o the_o people_n general_o of_o your_o way_n as_o also_o your_o leave_v the_o land_n in_o the_o great_a need_n notwithstanding_o all_o these_o and_o many_o more_o that_o all_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o city_n and_o country_n shall_v carry_v themselves_o towards_o you_o with_o that_o love_n respect_n fairness_n brotherly_a kindness_n as_o they_o do_v may_v have_v provoke_v you_o indeed_o but_o in_o another_o way_n than_o you_o express_v it_o and_o for_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o own_o breast_n and_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o my_o brethren_n and_o to_o these_o follow_a demonstration_n 1._o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o love_a respect_n and_o fair_a carriage_n towards_o you_o both_o in_o admit_v you_o into_o their_o pulpit_n and_o in_o forbear_v all_o thing_n offensive_a to_o you_o and_o your_o party_n before_o the_o sermon_n to_o gratify_v you_o 2._o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o fair_a respect_n to_o you_o in_o admit_v you_o into_o their_o society_n and_o public_a meeting_n about_o the_o matter_n of_o reformation_n 3._o there_o be_v a_o general_a silence_n by_o the_o godly_a minister_n i_o fear_v unto_o sinful_a in_o forbear_v preach_v against_o your_o point_n and_o that_o when_o some_o of_o you_o preach_v for_o your_o way_n and_o many_o pamphlet_n be_v print_v for_o it_o 4._o the_o minister_n suffer_v some_o of_o you_o and_o no_o
in_o holland_n and_o have_v speak_v with_o many_o of_o your_o way_n yea_o with_o some_o of_o you_o if_o i_o mistake_v not_o and_o write_v so_o late_o upon_o these_o point_n upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o the_o newness_n of_o the_o controversy_n shall_v so_o mistake_v or_o that_o the_o two_o reverend_a and_o learned_a divine_n of_o scotland_n set_v forth_o book_n chief_o upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o your_o dissent_n the_o first_o divine_a have_v be_v in_o england_n so_o long_o in_o the_o first_o year_n of_o the_o parliament_n sit_v and_o have_v have_v discourse_n with_o some_o of_o you_o upon_o the_o point_n and_o the_o late_a mr_n rutherford_n be_v so_o able_a a_o man_n and_o so_o well_o verse_v in_o the_o controversy_n shall_v conspire_v to_o prepossess_v the_o people_n mind_n against_o what_o be_v suppose_v your_o tenet_n but_o if_o all_o these_o shall_v have_v mistake_v that_o yet_o one_o of_o your_o own_o divine_n who_o write_v more_o late_o with_o much_o learning_n and_o ingenuity_n as_o yourselves_o confess_v and_o your_o licenser_n too_o shall_v fasten_v upon_o you_o suppose_a tenet_n seem_v strange_a but_o the_o best_a be_v we_o have_v yourselves_o confess_v in_o the_o 15._o page_n of_o your_o apology_n that_o these_o divine_n of_o holland_n scotland_n and_o england_n have_v write_v against_o your_o tenet_n and_o government_n direct_o set_o and_o with_o strength_n and_o how_o can_v mr_n herles_a book_n against_o independency_n be_v write_v with_o much_o ingenuity_n if_o he_o have_v prepossess_v the_o people_n mind_n against_o what_o be_v suppose_v your_o tenet_n but_o be_v not_o so_o indeed_o and_o however_o though_o neither_o myself_o nor_o my_o book_n against_o independent_a government_n be_v not_o in_o the_o number_n of_o the_o man_n and_o book_n of_o much_o worth_n and_o learning_n write_v with_o moderation_n and_o strength_n yet_o it_o be_v probable_a those_o reason_n against_o independent_a government_n and_o toleration_n trouble_v you_o as_o much_o as_o any_o other_o book_n write_v and_o may_v be_v more_o aim_v at_o by_o you_o in_o this_o passage_n than_o other_o book_n and_o therefore_o to_o free_v myself_o i_o have_v not_o assâ—…rted_v any_o thing_n in_o that_o book_n as_o your_o tenet_n but_o what_o i_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o believe_v you_o have_v hold_v and_o i_o can_v produce_v it_o either_o as_o your_o know_a practice_n or_o out_o of_o some_o manuscript_n that_o go_v under_o some_o of_o your_o name_n or_o from_o your_o own_o mouth_n or_o some_o intimate_a familiar_n of_o you_o so_o that_o unless_o according_a to_o your_o second_o great_a principle_n in_o the_o 10_o page_n you_o have_v alter_v and_o retract_v within_o these_o few_o year_n what_o six_o or_o seven_o year_n ago_o you_o hold_v the_o people_n mind_n have_v not_o be_v proposse_v by_o i_o with_o what_o be_v your_o suppose_a tenet_n but_o with_o your_o real_a tenet_n &_o i_o desire_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o give_v any_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o that_o neither_o i_o nor_o other_o may_v not_o write_v against_o your_o suppose_a tenet_n any_o long_o i_o do_v beleech_n you_o for_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n &_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n to_o set_v down_o positive_o and_o plain_o all_o your_o tenet_n wherein_o you_o differ_v from_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o reformation_n likely_a to_o be_v settle_v and_o that_o with_o the_o ground_n of_o they_o or_o without_o the_o ground_n if_o your_o other_o occasion_n will_v not_o allow_v you_o time_n and_o i_o do_v promise_v you_o by_o the_o help_n of_o god_n in_o a_o short_a convenient_a time_n without_o any_o thing_n personal_a or_o matter_n of_o fact_n to_o give_v you_o a_o direct_a answer_n from_o scripture_n and_o reason_n ground_v thereupon_o whereby_o we_o may_v understand_v one_o another_o the_o better_a and_o bring_v this_o sad_a controversy_n between_o brother_n to_o a_o end_n the_o soon_o 5._o we_o who_o have_v write_v any_o thing_n against_o your_o way_n have_v not_o so_o much_o prepossess_v the_o people_n mind_n against_o your_o tenet_n as_o labour_v to_o dispossess_v they_o we_o have_v all_o play_v the_o aftergame_n too_o much_o you_o the_o foregame_n you_o and_o your_o party_n have_v prepossess_v the_o people_n mind_n with_o your_o principle_n and_o have_v fill_v the_o city_n and_o kingdom_n with_o your_o tenet_n and_o you_o have_v be_v on_o the_o prepossessing_a hand_n fill_v many_o parliament_n man_n earâ—…s_n and_o the_o people_n mind_n against_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o instil_v into_o they_o thing_n but_o suppose_v against_o that_o government_n as_o not_o give_v enough_o to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n it_o will_v grieve_v a_o ingenious_a and_o conscientious_a man_n to_o see_v where_o ever_o one_o come_v how_o many_o good_a people_n of_o the_o kingdom_n be_v prepossess_v by_o be_v prejudice_v against_o presbyterial_a government_n that_o it_o will_v be_v worse_o than_o the_o hierarchy_n and_o more_o tyrannical_a to_o the_o conscience_n and_o liberty_n of_o the_o people_n with_o such_o like_a there_o be_v therefore_o and_o be_v much_o need_n to_o cast_v out_o these_o devil_n and_o to_o unpossesse_v the_o people_n possess_v and_o by_o preach_v conference_n and_o writing_n to_o preserve_v such_o who_o be_v not_o yet_o possess_v and_o to_o prepossess_v they_o with_o truth_n because_o such_o be_v the_o nature_n of_o your_o error_n that_o hither_o to_o few_o who_o take_v hold_v of_o they_o ever_o return_v like_o goodwin_n sand_n that_o if_o a_o ship_n once_o strike_v upon_o they_o there_o be_v no_o fetch_v she_o off_o or_o as_o poison_v which_o be_v hardly_o expel_v if_o once_o it_o be_v diffuse_v through_o the_o body_n 3._o for_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n of_o your_o pretend_a deep_a silence_n and_o forbearance_n of_o vent_v your_o opinion_n to_o the_o multitude_n i_o grant_v they_o be_v well_o sum_v up_o by_o you_o and_o i_o wish_v they_o have_v wrought_v as_o well_o with_o you_o to_o a_o deep_a silence_n and_o forbearance_n but_o whatever_o you_o say_v of_o the_o conscience_n and_o consideration_n of_o all_o these_o and_o the_o weight_n of_o each_o to_o have_v have_v such_o a_o power_n with_o you_o hitherto_o the_o contrary_a have_v be_v prove_v and_o i_o be_o ready_a yet_o further_o to_o make_v it_o good_a and_o will_v upon_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n say_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o but_o now_o i_o must_v come_v to_o examine_v each_o of_o your_o ground_n apart_o which_o you_o say_v wrought_v upon_o you_o not_o to_o attempt_v in_o the_o least_o to_o make_v a_o party_n or_o to_o act_v for_o yourselves_o or_o way_n 1._o but_o we_o know_v and_o consider_v that_o it_o be_v the_o second_o blow_n that_o make_v the_o quarrel_n and_o that_o the_o begin_n of_o strife_n will_v have_v be_v as_o the_o break_n in_o of_o water_n and_o the_o sad_a and_o conscientious_a apprehension_n of_o the_o danger_n of_o rend_v and_o divide_v the_o godly_a protestant_a party_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o be_v desirous_a of_o reformation_n and_o of_o make_v several_a interest_n among_o they_o when_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o their_o near_a union_n and_o conjunction_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v it_o be_v speak_v like_o a_o oracle_n and_o may_v indeed_o have_v wrought_v upon_o you_o to_o a_o bury_n of_o your_o opinion_n to_o a_o total_a forbearance_n of_o they_o for_o a_o time_n and_o to_o have_v spend_v your_o time_n in_o a_o conjure_n all_o the_o minister_n and_o people_n of_o your_o way_n not_o to_o have_v speak_v a_o word_n not_o to_o have_v appear_v in_o the_o least_o for_o those_o point_n till_o the_o reformation_n intend_v have_v be_v effect_v but_o brethren_n be_v it_o practise_v by_o you_o as_o well_o as_o it_o be_v here_o speak_v i_o beseech_v you_o let_v your_o conscience_n answer_v and_o in_o cool_a blood_n lay_v aside_o all_o particular_a interest_n passion_n prejudice_n consider_v whether_o it_o be_v not_o by_o your_o mean_n or_o by_o some_o of_o you_o more_o especial_o who_o write_v this_o that_o the_o godly_a protestant_a party_n of_o this_o kingdom_n desirous_a of_o a_o reformation_n be_v rend_v and_o divide_v and_o have_v several_a interest_n among_o they_o in_o a_o time_n when_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o their_o necrest_n union_n and_o conjunction_n and_o all_o little_a enough_o to_o effâ—…ct_v that_o reformation_n intend_v have_v not_o some_o of_o your_o sermon_n have_v not_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o of_o you_o in_o assemble_v in_o private_a house_n and_o in_o the_o gather_n of_o many_o to_o your_o church_n have_v not_o your_o discourse_n and_o conference_n with_o some_o minister_n and_o well_o affectâ—…d_a people_n upon_o your_o point_n with_o many_o other_o thing_n that_o i_o can_v name_v be_v a_o great_a cause_n of_o rend_v and_o divide_v the_o
godly_a protestant_a party_n and_o of_o much_o distract_n they_o and_o of_o make_v several_a interest_n whence_o have_v come_v all_o the_o rent_n and_o division_n to_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o godly_a protestant_a party_n all_o the_o â—…ets_n stopp_n and_o delay_n in_o the_o intend_a reformation_n but_o from_o you_o and_o by_o occasion_n and_o mean_n of_o you_o the_o authority_n of_o your_o name_n hold_v these_o opinion_n have_v the_o reputation_n of_o scholar_n and_o of_o excellent_a preacher_n whereby_o you_o be_v cry_v up_o of_o many_o and_o so_o much_o follow_v your_o interest_n and_o favour_n in_o too_o many_o considerable_a person_n have_v draw_v so_o much_o have_v it_o not_o be_v for_o your_o sake_n these_o rent_n and_o division_n have_v never_o come_v to_o this_o head_n there_o have_v not_o be_v that_o connivance_n nor_o such_o delay_n of_o settle_v government_n etc._n etc._n most_o of_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o way_n be_v in_o comparison_n contemptible_a both_o for_o name_n and_o gift_n and_o can_v not_o have_v do_v that_o hurt_n and_o why_o then_o in_o a_o time_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n of_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o the_o near_a union_n and_o conjunction_n and_o all_o little_a enough_o to_o effect_v that_o reformation_n intend_v and_o so_o long_o contend_v for_o against_o a_o common_a adversary_n that_o have_v both_o present_a possession_n to_o plead_v for_o itself_o power_n to_o support_v it_o and_o have_v enjoy_v a_o long_a continue_a settlement_n which_o have_v root_v it_o in_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n have_v you_o do_v so_o much_o by_o preach_v and_o act_v to_o rend_v and_o divide_v the_o godly_a protestant_n party_n there_o be_v no_o absolute_a necessity_n just_a at_o that_o time_n when_o you_o do_v preach_v and_o stir_v for_o your_o way_n for_o you_o to_o have_v do_v so_o affirmative_n though_o they_o do_v bind_v semper_fw-la yet_o not_o add_v semper_fw-la there_o be_v great_a truth_n in_o doctrine_n and_o in_o reformation_n of_o government_n which_o you_o may_v have_v preach_v on_o for_o that_o time_n but_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o the_o near_a union_n and_o conjunction_n i_o hearty_o with_o this_o first_o reason_n and_o ground_n deep_o lay_v to_o heart_n by_o you_o and_o then_o i_o know_v you_o must_v great_o repent_v for_o what_o you_o have_v do_v in_o this_o particular_a since_o your_o return_n into_o england_n and_o have_v not_o god_n be_v and_o be_v he_o not_o the_o more_o gracious_a and_o better_a to_o we_o then_o ordinary_a your_o carriage_n and_o what_o have_v be_v by_o your_o mean_n will_v have_v spoil_v our_o reformation_n and_o have_v do_v much_o to_o keep_v the_o common_a adversary_n in_o his_o present_a possession_n and_o long_o continue_a settlement_n but_o i_o pray_v god_n humble_v you_o for_o it_o and_o forgive_v you_o and_o see_v you_o know_v and_o consider_v that_o it_o be_v the_o second_o blow_n that_o make_v the_o quarrel_n and_o that_o the_o begin_n of_o strife_n will_v have_v be_v as_o the_o break_n in_o of_o water_n why_o be_v you_o not_o content_v with_o the_o give_v of_o the_o first_o blow_n and_o the_o first_o occasion_n of_o the_o quarrel_n both_o by_o your_o former_a preach_n and_o practise_v but_o to_o add_v this_o second_o great_a blow_n the_o writing_n of_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n which_o though_o it_o be_v not_o on_o your_o part_n the_o beginning_n of_o strife_n yet_o it_o will_v prove_v as_o the_o break_n in_o of_o water_n and_o as_o the_o kindle_v of_o a_o fire_n not_o likely_a to_o be_v put_v out_o in_o haste_n 2._o and_o this_o second_v by_o the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n to_o forbear_v what_o may_v any_o way_n be_v like_a to_o occasion_n or_o augment_v this_o unhappy_a difference_n they_o have_v also_o by_o their_o declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n profess_v their_o endeavour_n and_o desire_v to_o unite_v the_o protestant_a party_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o agree_v in_o fundamental_a truth_n against_o popery_n and_o other_o heresy_n and_o to_o have_v that_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n as_o may_v prevent_v oppression_n and_o inconvenience_n which_o have_v former_o be_v i_o judge_v this_o ground_n second_v the_o former_a shall_v have_v be_v powerful_a with_o you_o to_o a_o deep_a silence_n and_o forbearance_n every_o particular_a branch_n of_o it_o speak_v strong_o to_o you_o to_o forbear_v what_o ever_o may_v any_o way_n be_v like_a to_o occasion_n or_o augment_v this_o unhappy_a difference_n nay_o almost_o every_o word_n in_o it_o â—…s_v a_o argument_n to_o command_v the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n what_o may_v not_o all_o these_o have_v wrought_v and_o than_o take_v in_o also_o that_o they_o have_v by_o their_o declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o they_o will_v have_v a_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n now_o what_o can_v you_o almost_o have_v wish_v more_o or_o what_o better_a security_n for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n a_o man_n will_v think_v all_o these_o may_v have_v command_v you_o not_o to_o have_v act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n and_o certain_o your_o fault_n be_v the_o great_a in_o do_v contrary_a and_o you_o be_v the_o more_o inexcusable_a have_v not_o this_o second_v the_o former_a yet_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o first_o be_v enough_o to_o have_v take_v ingenuous_a spirit_n but_o this_o second_n the_o first_o it_o be_v too_o bad_a that_o you_o go_v contrary_a to_o the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n as_o for_o those_o passage_n insert_v in_o this_o reason_n the_o parliament_n declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n profess_v their_o endeavour_n and_o desire_v to_o unite_v the_o protestant_a party_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o agree_v in_o fundamental_a truth_n and_o to_o have_v that_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n wherein_o you_o will_v insinuate_v that_o the_o parliament_n have_v put_v you_o in_o some_o hope_n of_o a_o toleration_n and_o that_o ground_a upon_o some_o passage_n in_o their_o declaration_n have_v you_o name_v what_o declaration_n speak_v so_o i_o can_v have_v peruse_v and_o examine_v they_o and_o have_v return_v you_o a_o answer_n i_o question_v it_o not_o from_o the_o word_n and_o sense_n but_o to_o put_v it_o out_o of_o doubt_n that_o the_o parliament_n intend_v no_o toleration_n in_o such_o word_n as_o have_v respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n etc._n etc._n i_o refer_v you_o to_o the_o first_o and_o great_a remonstrance_n and_o declaration_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o wherein_o they_o declare_v the_o contrary_a and_o engage_v themselves_o to_o the_o kingdom_n against_o it_o answer_v to_o that_o as_o a_o calumny_n cast_v upon_o they_o to_o traduce_v their_o proceed_n they_o infuse_v into_o 1641._o the_o people_n that_o we_o mean_v to_o abolish_v all_o church-government_n and_o leave_v every_o man_n to_o his_o own_o fancy_n for_o the_o service_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n absolve_v he_o of_o that_o obedience_n which_o he_o owe_v under_o god_n unto_o his_o majesty_n who_o we_o know_v to_o be_v entrust_v with_o the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n as_o well_o as_o with_o the_o temporal_a to_o regulate_v all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o such_o rule_n of_o order_n and_o discipline_n as_o be_v establish_v by_o parliament_n which_o be_v his_o great_a council_n in_o all_o affair_n both_o in_o church_n and_o state_n and_o we_o do_v here_o declare_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o our_o purpose_n or_o desire_v to_o let_v loose_a the_o golden_a reins_n of_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n to_o leave_v private_a person_n or_o particular_a 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in_o one_o or_o two_o sermon_n against_o some_o who_o say_v we_o have_v have_v no_o church_n no_o minister_n etc._n etc._n with_o which_o the_o eye_n of_o many_o man_n who_o have_v not_o study_v the_o controversy_n neither_o understand_v they_o have_v be_v blind_v and_o by_o which_o you_o have_v the_o more_o ready_o draw_v some_o either_o to_o your_o churchway_n by_o your_o pretend_a moderation_n or_o to_o plead_v for_o you_o against_o the_o aspersion_n of_o brownism_n but_o what_o have_v you_o either_o do_v real_o or_o forbear_v for_o the_o peaceable_a and_o orderly_a reformation_n of_o this_o church_n and_o state_n have_v not_o all_o the_o notorious_a and_o visible_a disorder_n in_o our_o church_n since_o this_o parliament_n both_o in_o city_n and_o country_n which_o have_v wrought_v such_o great_a disgust_n in_o many_o though_o unjust_o against_o the_o reformation_n and_o the_o parliament_n that_o as_o old_a jacobâ—…aid_n â—…aid_z to_o simeon_n and_o lâ—…vi_n you_o have_v trouble_v 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and_o do_v pursue_v the_o design_n of_o increase_v your_o party_n and_o spread_v your_o way_n as_o the_o only_a way_n of_o god_n else_o why_o have_v you_o preach_v and_o do_v so_o much_o for_o it_o neither_o can_v i_o believe_v you_o be_v so_o low_o spirit_v and_o so_o terrene_a as_o to_o look_v out_o after_o no_o other_o inrerest_n but_o a_o poor_a subsistence_n in_o this_o kingdom_n what_o have_v you_o not_o the_o design_n and_o interest_n of_o set_v up_o christ_n kingdom_n and_o pure_a ordinance_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o we_o i_o profess_v for_o myself_o and_o brethren_n that_o we_o have_v great_a interest_n and_o design_n in_o our_o seek_a reformation_n than_o a_o subsistence_n in_o our_o own_o land_n though_o it_o may_v be_v never_o so_o full_a and_o plentiful_a namely_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n the_o advancement_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n the_o opportunity_n of_o do_v more_o service_n and_o as_o for_o a_o subsistence_n be_v it_o the_o poor_a and_o mean_a i_o appeal_v 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all_o that_o they_o hold_v this_o apology_n contain_v but_o a_o little_a part_n of_o their_o way_n beside_o take_v in_o their_o second_o great_a principle_n page_n 10._o apolog_fw-la of_o not_o make_v their_o present_a judgement_n and_o practice_v a_o bind_a law_n for_o the_o future_a the_o parliament_n may_v grant_v gross_a brownism_n anabaptism_n within_o a_o short_a time_n many_o fall_n off_o according_a their_o principle_n of_o new_a light_n to_o cast_v off_o communion_n with_o their_o own_o church_n as_o some_o of_o mr_n sympson_n have_v do_v and_o let_v it_o be_v but_o remember_v what_o i_o now_o write_v whether_o some_o of_o the_o apologist_n if_o they_o come_v not_o in_o and_o join_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n do_v not_o within_o a_o few_o year_n go_v a_o great_a way_n further_o i_o think_v have_v they_o stay_v together_o in_o holland_n till_o this_o time_n without_o any_o hope_n of_o a_o toleration_n here_o some_o of_o they_o have_v go_v far_o by_o this_o time_n of_o day_n anoint_v with_o oil_n be_v begin_v to_o be_v bring_v in_o hymn_n have_v be_v move_v for_o in_o one_o of_o their_o church_n and_o if_o i_o may_v believe_v the_o report_n of_o a_o religious_a person_n in_o a_o open_a company_n affirm_v it_o again_o and_o again_o when_o i_o doubt_v it_o that_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o aâ—…nheim_n who_o be_v also_o name_v to_o i_o relate_v that_o have_v they_o stay_v there_o a_o little_a long_o the_o ordinance_n of_o hymn_n have_v be_v practise_v among_o they_o one_o be_v choose_v and_o agree_v upon_o by_o the_o church_n to_o exercise_v that_o ordinance_n and_o i_o be_o able_a to_o demonstrate_v it_o that_o the_o apologist_n keep_v but_o to_o their_o principle_n beside_o the_o principle_n of_o a_o reserve_v must_v yet_o go_v a_o great_a way_n further_o and_o suppose_v the_o parliament_n shall_v make_v a_o proposition_n to_o they_o we_o will_v grant_v you_o this_o and_o this_o and_o so_o which_o be_v the_o present_n principlâ—…s_v you_o hold_v forth_o but_o if_o you_o bring_v in_o any_o thing_n more_o or_o go_v far_o than_o your_o church_n shall_v be_v dessolve_v and_o we_o will_v recall_v what_o we_o grant_v you_o because_o we_o will_v be_v sure_a to_o know_v what_o we_o allow_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n be_v at_o a_o certainty_n for_o that_o i_o do_v not_o think_v the_o apologist_n will_v accept_v of_o a_o toleration_n upon_o those_o term_n and_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o beginning_n of_o error_n common_o be_v most_o modest_a but_o let_v alone_o some_o time_n they_o exceed_v all_o bound_n how_o far_o most_o of_o the_o arminian_n proceed_v beyond_o what_o arminius_n hold_v or_o themselves_o at_o first_o the_o learned_a book_n of_o many_o divine_n and_o experience_n show_v and_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v to_o the_o apologist_n and_o all_o those_o of_o their_o communion_n to_o exercise_v their_o conscience_n i_o fear_v before_o a_o year_n go_v about_o many_o will_v turn_v anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o desire_v rather_o to_o pray_v against_o a_o toleration_n then_o to_o prophesy_v of_o the_o evil_a of_o it_o but_o suppose_v the_o best_a that_o can_v be_v that_o the_o state_n have_v a_o assurance_n the_o apologist_n and_o their_o church_n will_v not_o go_v one_o step_n further_o than_o now_o they_o hold_v the_o toleration_n shall_v not_o be_v make_v use_n of_o to_o any_o further_a error_n yet_o the_o parliament_n shall_v not_o allow_v it_o unless_o they_o will_v grant_v a_o toleratiod_n of_o brownism_n and_o if_o brownisme_n be_v a_o bitter_a error_n and_o way_n than_o the_o way_n of_o the_o apologist_n be_v not_o very_o sweet_a their_o way_n be_v but_o brown_n young_a brother_n agree_v with_o the_o brownist_n in_o the_o nature_n and_o definition_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o independent_a power_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n in_o the_o way_n of_o make_v officer_n in_o the_o way_n of_o their_o ordinancâ—…s_n as_o prophesy_v in_o the_o way_n of_o form_n of_o prayer_n in_o the_o sacrament_n none_o to_o be_v admit_v but_o church_n member_n cum_fw-la multis_fw-la alijs_fw-la and_o i_o desire_v the_o apologist_n to_o give_v any_o material_a difference_n however_o their_o ground_n be_v different_a and_o they_o do_v not_o go_v so_o far_o in_o consequence_n nor_o be_v not_o so_o gross_a between_o their_o church_n and_o the_o brownist_n as_o for_o that_o of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o people_n and_o the_o officer_n in_o give_v the_o power_n to_o the_o officer_n but_o the_o brownist_n to_o the_o people_n i_o answer_v however_o the_o apologist_n differ_v in_o that_o point_n from_o the_o brownist_n in_o word_n phrase_n method_n and_o give_v we_o many_o fine_a word_n and_o flatter_a similitude_n go_v about_o yet_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o differ_v not_o in_o substance_n in_o their_o practice_n but_o all_o come_v to_o one_o end_n and_o
spread_v and_o they_o gain_v so_o many_o of_o the_o magistrate_n on_o their_o side_n we_o shall_v have_v find_v there_o will_v have_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o mr_n simpson_n to_o write_v thus_o as_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o low-countries_n where_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n papist_n and_o socinian_o in_o a_o word_n till_o the_o call_n of_o synod_n and_o the_o power_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v shake_v and_o some_o arminian_n by_o flattery_n and_o policy_n wrought_v to_o put_v by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n and_o appeal_v to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o mr_n simpson_n do_v in_o this_o apology_n from_o the_o assembly_n there_o be_v not_o so_o great_a a_o defection_n both_o of_o minister_n and_o people_n unto_o error_n in_o turn_v papist_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n 3._o though_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v not_o its_o free_a course_n in_o the_o low-countries_n as_o in_o france_n geneva_n scotland_n beside_o the_o toleration_n there_o yet_o there_o be_v infinite_o few_o miscarriage_n in_o censure_n division_n error_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a church_n then_o in_o the_o independent_o there_o have_v be_v more_o contention_n miscarriagâ—…s_n fall_v into_o error_n in_o one_o small_a church_n of_o the_o independent_a way_n at_o amsterdam_n and_o that_o within_o less_o than_o one_o year_n then_o in_o all_o the_o church_n in_o some_o province_n i_o remember_v perfect_o i_o have_v read_v in_o mr_n pagett_v arrow_n against_o separation_n a_o man_n who_o live_v long_o in_o holland_n and_o much_o verse_v in_o the_o controversy_n how_o he_o show_v that_o out_o of_o a_o few_o member_n in_o the_o brownist_n church_n more_o fall_n to_o anabaptism_n etc._n etc._n then_o out_o of_o many_o thousand_o member_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a church_n among_o the_o dutch_a or_o out_o of_o all_o the_o english_a reform_a church_n there_o so_o that_o notwithstanding_o this_o new_a objection_n bring_v against_o presbyterial_a government_n if_o the_o parliament_n shall_v please_v to_o settle_v it_o and_o that_o in_o the_o full_a power_n and_o free_a use_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n deny_v also_o a_o toleration_n for_o independency_n unto_o which_o all_o erroneous_a and_o discontent_a spirit_n upon_o all_o occasion_n will_v flow_v and_o gather_v instead_o of_o open_v a_o wide_a gate_n for_o error_n division_n and_o many_o other_o mischief_n they_o shall_v lay_v a_o sure_a foundation_n for_o truth_n and_o peace_n in_o these_o church_n and_o in_o the_o last_o word_n of_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n i_o conclude_v this_o last_o reason_n against_o a_o toleration_n the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o god_n have_v bless_v with_o so_o much_o learning_n and_o piety_n by_o this_o reformation_n and_o uniformity_n with_o other_o reform_a church_n which_o all_o of_o we_o have_v solmne_o swear_v and_o subscribe_v to_o endeavour_v in_o our_o several_a place_n and_o calling_n shall_v be_v a_o praise_n in_o the_o earth_n now_o do_v not_o other_o occasion_n call_v i_o to_o take_v off_o my_o hand_n beside_o the_o book_n itself_o swell_v already_o to_o such_o a_o number_n of_o sheet_n i_o will_v have_v answer_v all_o the_o reason_n bring_v both_o for_o toleration_n in_o general_a and_o particular_o for_o the_o congregationall_a way_n as_o that_o man_n be_v to_o be_v persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o not_o compel_v as_o that_o the_o conscience_n be_v to_o be_v leave_v free_a as_o that_o the_o denial_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v be_v a_o great_a persecution_n as_o that_o this_o be_v the_o way_n to_o make_v man_n hypocrite_n as_o that_o god_n people_n be_v a_o willing_a people_n etc._n etc._n but_o reserve_v this_o to_o another_o season_n in_o the_o close_a of_o this_o discourse_n i_o will_v propound_v these_o follow_a question_n to_o the_o apologist_n 1._o whether_o the_o command_a of_o man_n by_o the_o power_n of_o law_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n to_o do_v the_o thing_n which_o god_n require_v of_o they_o with_o the_o use_n of_o outward_a mean_n to_o work_v they_o to_o it_o when_o unwilling_a be_v unlawful_a for_o the_o magistrate_n and_o against_o christian_a liberty_n yea_o or_o no_o 2._o in_o your_o move_n for_o a_o toleration_n do_v you_o desire_v it_o for_o you_o five_o only_o with_o those_o who_o be_v actual_o and_o will_v come_v in_o to_o be_v member_n of_o your_o church_n or_o for_o all_o the_o church_n who_o be_v of_o the_o same_o way_n and_o communion_n if_o for_o yourselves_o and_o church_n only_o which_o will_v be_v more_o tolerable_a a_o few_o then_o a_o great_a number_n and_o you_o be_v person_n of_o more_o worth_a than_o most_o of_o the_o other_o consider_v the_o solemn_a league_n and_o covenant_n be_v against_o it_o that_o we_o shall_v without_o respect_n of_o person_n endeavour_v the_o extirpation_n of_o schism_n and_o whatsoever_o shall_v be_v find_v contrary_a to_o sound_v doctrine_n so_o that_o you_o can_v be_v tolerate_v more_o than_o other_o beside_o if_o that_o be_v grant_v you_o be_v but_o five_o minister_n and_o make_v up_o but_o three_o or_o four_o church_n the_o parliament_n will_v be_v never_o the_o near_o in_o give_v satisfaction_n for_o what_o shall_v become_v of_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o minister_n and_o church_n in_o city_n and_o country_n of_o mr_n c._n mr_n b._n dr_n h._n mr_n l._n mr_n g._n master_n w._n etc._n etc._n the_o parliament_n will_v be_v account_v partial_a and_o further_o off_o from_o give_v content_a then_o if_o they_o grant_v none_o at_o all_o but_o if_o it_o be_v say_v you_o desire_v it_o for_o all_o church_n of_o your_o constitution_n i_o answer_v express_v so_o much_o under_o your_o hand_n and_o i_o will_v then_o give_v you_o a_o answer_n 3._o whether_o will_v you_o have_v a_o toleration_n grant_v in_o the_o general_a and_o indifferent_o for_o all_o conscience_n sect_n and_o opinion_n or_o only_o for_o some_o sort_n of_o opinion_n i_o suppose_v be_v wise_a man_n you_o will_v not_o express_v yourselves_o for_o a_o toleration_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n but_o in_o the_o latter_a i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o you_o then_o what_o limit_n and_o bound_n you_o will_v set_v and_o where_o the_o parliament_n shall_v stop_v and_o what_o rule_v you_o will_v give_v for_o this_o as_o first_o whether_o the_o limitation_n shall_v be_v a_o toleration_n only_o for_o all_o different_a form_n of_o church-government_n and_o order_n so_o long_o as_o they_o agree_v in_o doctrine_n with_o the_o church_n establish_v and_o be_v orthodox_n but_o not_o of_o doctrine_n now_o if_o you_o hold_v so_o than_o the_o brownist_n and_o the_o bishop_n with_o those_o who_o be_v for_o the_o hierarchy_n must_v be_v tolerate_v as_o well_o as_o you_o many_o episcopal_a man_n be_v sound_a in_o doctrine_n then_o some_o of_o your_o way_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o simple_a anabaptist_n and_o that_o sort_n of_o simple_a anabaptist_n call_v dipper_n will_v come_v in_o too_o say_v that_o baptism_n at_o such_o a_o age_n and_o baptise_v in_o river_n by_o dip_v be_v but_o matter_n of_o order_n and_o time_n and_o what_o if_o yet_o a_o new_a form_n of_o church_n government_n and_o way_n of_o external_a order_n in_o the_o administration_n of_o god_n ordinance_n be_v set_v up_o by_o some_o a_o way_n which_o have_v never_o yet_o be_v practise_v by_o any_o must_v that_o be_v tolerate_v also_o consider_v with_o yourselves_o whether_o there_o may_v not_o be_v a_o safe_a allowance_n of_o difference_n in_o some_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n then_o of_o different_a government_n as_o also_o what_o you_o have_v express_v of_o the_o consequence_n of_o church_n government_n and_o order_n and_o then_o resolve_v i_o whether_o you_o will_v have_v all_o form_n of_o church-government_n allow_v and_o in_o my_o rejoynder_n i_o will_v apply_v myself_o particular_o to_o show_v you_o the_o danger_n of_o that_o and_o how_o much_o hazard_n there_o be_v even_o of_o the_o doctrine_n from_o the_o discipline_n and_o order_n if_o that_o be_v not_o right_a or_o second_o will_v you_o have_v a_o toleration_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n too_o namely_o in_o lesser_a difference_n i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o you_o will_v make_v the_o rule_n and_o measure_n of_o those_o lesser_a difference_n whether_o whatever_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n and_o be_v not_o against_o the_o fundamental_o of_o doctrine_n and_o civil_a government_n or_o what_o else_o now_o if_o you_o mean_v so_o who_o shall_v determine_v and_o judge_v what_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n etc._n etc._n every_o heretic_n socinian_n etc._n etc._n will_v plead_v his_o opinion_n may_v and_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o many_o point_n and_o practice_n very_o bad_a and_o pernicious_a may_v not_o stand_v with_o save_v grace_n in_o some_o man_n at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n what_o say_v you_o to_o polygamy_n that_o have_v stand_v with_o save_v
grace_n may_v that_o be_v tolerate_v what_o think_v you_o of_o many_o arminian_n tenet_n some_o lutheran_n opinion_n antinomian_a doctrine_n and_o other_o dangerous_a point_n hold_v by_o great_a scholar_n as_o by_o brentius_n osiander_n flaccius_n illyricus_n may_v not_o some_o of_o these_o opinion_n stand_v with_o grace_n and_o may_v not_o some_o of_o these_o have_v grace_n and_o must_v these_o now_o be_v allow_v to_o be_v preach_v in_o a_o kingdom_n that_o have_v establish_v article_n of_o religion_n and_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o shall_v such_o preacher_n gather_v people_n into_o church_n if_o all_o point_n may_v be_v preach_v and_o church_n allow_v for_o all_o doctrine_n that_o be_v not_o against_o fundamental_o and_o that_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n there_o will_v be_v a_o strange_a face_n of_o protestant_n reform_v church_n infinite_a novelty_n may_v be_v broach_v and_o great_a stir_v cause_v in_o a_o kingdom_n i_o desire_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o state_n your_o lesser_a difference_n and_o to_o set_v down_o your_o boundary_n what_o and_o what_o not_o and_o according_o i_o shall_v answer_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n from_o these_o few_o hint_n you_o and_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v beside_o the_o unlawfulnesse_n there_o be_v difficulty_n where_o to_o fasten_v a_o toleration_n now_o in_o the_o close_a of_o my_o discourse_n against_o toleration_n i_o take_v the_o humble_a boldness_n to_o represent_v to_o the_o honourable_a house_n of_o parliament_n that_o it_o be_v the_o magistrate_n duty_n not_o to_o suffer_v schism_n heresy_n and_o other_o error_n to_o grow_v and_o increase_v in_o the_o church_n for_o as_o they_o be_v magistrate_n they_o true_o serve_v god_n who_o minister_n they_o be_v and_o kiss_v the_o son_n in_o revenge_v the_o injury_n wanton_o commit_v against_o god_n and_o his_o truth_n and_o in_o preserve_v the_o external_a polity_n of_o doctrine_n and_o manner_n one_o of_o the_o great_a service_n prince_n and_o 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peaceablenesse_n this_o be_v candidus_fw-la ille_fw-la diabolus_fw-la as_o 〈…〉_z luther_n speak_v and_o mâ—…ridianus_fw-la diâ—…bolus_n as_o johannes_n gersonius_fw-la anâ—…_n bâ—…_n express_v it_o come_v under_o the_o merit_n of_o much_o suffering_n and_o well_o deserve_v clad_v in_o the_o white_a garment_n of_o innocence_n and_o holiness_n in_o a_o word_n can_v the_o devil_n effect_v a_o toleration_n he_o will_v think_v he_o have_v gain_v well_o by_o the_o reformation_n and_o make_v a_o good_a exchange_n of_o the_o hierarchy_n to_o have_v a_o toleration_n for_o it_o i_o be_o conâ—…ident_a of_o it_o upon_o serious_a thought_n and_o long_o search_v into_o this_o point_n of_o the_o evil_n and_o mischief_n of_o a_o toleration_n that_o if_o the_o devil_n have_v his_o choice_n whether_o the_o hierarchy_n ceremony_n and_o lyturgie_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o this_o kingdom_n or_o a_o toleration_n grant_v he_o will_v choose_v and_o prefer_v a_o toleration_n before_o they_o and_o will_v willing_o part_v with_o and_o give_v up_o all_o those_o for_o a_o toleration_n of_o divers_a sect_n and_o different_a church_n to_o conclude_v if_o the_o way_n of_o independency_n be_v of_o god_n and_o the_o apologist_n can_v make_v that_o good_a let_v it_o be_v establish_v by_o the_o parliament_n and_o let_v we_o all_o come_v to_o that_o if_o it_o be_v not_o why_o then_o shall_v it_o be_v tolerate_v and_o why_o do_v the_o apologist_n move_v for_o a_o toleration_n before_o that_o ever_o it_o come_v to_o be_v debate_v and_o argue_v in_o the_o assembly_n and_o now_o for_o a_o conclusion_n and_o close_v up_o this_o answer_n to_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n i_o may_v as_o some_o author_n do_v in_o answer_v book_n gather_v together_o and_o draw_v up_o into_o one_o all_o the_o main_a particular_n of_o the_o apology_n animadvert_v upon_o and_o put_v they_o under_o certain_a head_n and_o rank_n they_o in_o their_o several_a form_n and_o so_o present_a a_o synopsis_n of_o they_o to_o both_o house_n and_o the_o reader_n whereby_o they_o may_v have_v all_o in_o their_o eye_n at_o once_o see_v much_o in_o a_o little_a as_o 1._o all_o the_o expression_n of_o the_o high_a praise_n of_o themselves_o and_o their_o own_o party_n scatter_v up_o and_o down_o in_o the_o apology_n 2._o the_o aspersion_n depression_n insinuation_n both_o open_a and_o more_o secret_a of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o of_o the_o assembly_n 3._o the_o cross_n and_o interfearing_n of_o some_o passage_n in_o the_o book_n with_o other_o 4._o the_o plain_a and_o manifest_a untruth_n express_v in_o many_o page_n 5._o all_o the_o reservation_n and_o concealment_n of_o matter_n both_o of_o opinion_n and_o practice_n in_o the_o churchway_n 6._o the_o double_a doubtful_a expression_n both_o in_o word_n and_o matter_n 7._o the_o mistate_v of_o the_o question_n in_o difference_n both_o on_o their_o own_o side_n and_o the_o presbyterian_o state_v their_o own_o difference_n with_o the_o low_a and_o the_o 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â—…ue_a paraphrase_n upon_o it_o and_o andinâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d have_v 〈◊〉_d the_o narration_n of_o themselves_o for_o the_o most_o part_n contrary_a but_o i_o shall_v reserve_v that_o with_o some_o other_o thing_n i_o have_v yet_o to_o say_v iâ—…_n matter_n of_o fact_n till_o i_o put_v out_o my_o rejoynder_n to_o their_o reply_n in_o 〈◊〉_d mean_a 〈◊〉_d i_o shall_v conclude_v this_o antapology_n with_o â—…rning_v my_o 〈…〉_z by_o dissolve_v your_o church_n and_o come_v in_o to_o we_o and_o that_o you_o may_v repent_v and_o recall_v this_o apology_n i_o will_v represent_v to_o you_o the_o greatness_n of_o your_o sin_n and_o folly_n in_o make_v the_o apology_n and_o it_o stand_v in_o these_o particular_n 1._o it_o be_v a_o unseasonable_a disorderly_a work_n for_o the_o time_n and_o way_n of_o it_o 2._o it_o be_v a_o narration_n full_a of_o mental_a reservation_n high_a praise_n of_o yourselves_o but_o censure_v and_o scandalize_a the_o reform_a church_n of_o christ._n 3._o there_o be_v many_o untruth_n in_o it_o and_o that_o not_o only_a where_o you_o make_v naked_a relation_n oâ—…_n thing_n but_o where_o you_o make_v profession_n before_o god_n and_o the_o world_n yea_o â—…here_o you_o make_v serious_a invocation_n of_o god_n to_o aâ—…est_v they_o and_o man_n also_o and_o all_o this_o be_v do_v public_o by_o print_v and_o deliberate_o and_o upon_o a_o design_n to_o take_v the_o more_o with_o the_o people_n and_o to_o make_v way_n the_o better_a for_o a_o â—…oleration_n 4._o there_o be_v a_o breach_n of_o the_o solemn_a covenant_n subscribe_v by_o you_o especial_o in_o that_o clause_n of_o the_o first_o branch_n we_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o bring_v the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o three_o kingdom_n to_o the_o near_a conjunction_n and_o uniformity_n in_o relegion_n confission_n of_o faith_n and_o form_n of_o church-government_n in_o stead_n of_o which_o before_o ever_o you_o â—…o_o much_o as_o try_v and_o endeavour_v it_o by_o debate_v those_o
matter_n of_o difference_n in_o the_o assembly_n whereby_o it_o may_v be_v bring_v to_o a_o uniformity_n you_o endeavour_v by_o this_o apology_n a_o toleration_n and_o sue_v for_o a_o exemption_n of_o conjunction_n and_o uniformity_n in_o church_n government_n which_o be_v strange_a you_o shall_v desire_v especial_o have_v coveâ—…anted_v to_o the_o contrary_a which_o breach_n of_o covenant_n be_v aggravate_v also_o that_o you_o do_v not_o only_o do_v it_o yourselves_o but_o you_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o house_n into_o it_o by_o move_v they_o to_o grant_v you_o a_o toleration_n now_o if_o a_o simple_a and_o single_a untruth_n need_v repentance_n what_o repentâ—…nce_n ought_v there_o to_o be_v for_o such_o a_o compound_v aggravate_v evil_a as_o you_o â—…s_v and_o as_o i_o have_v represent_v it_o to_o your_o own_o conscience_n that_o you_o may_v smite_v upon_o the_o thigh_n so_o i_o turn_v you_o over_o to_o your_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n that_o they_o deal_v with_o you_o for_o your_o great_a sin_n and_o either_o bring_v you_o to_o conâ—…ion_n and_o repentance_n or_o else_o proceed_v to_o censure_v do_v i_o know_v where_o your_o church_n dwell_v and_o where_o they_o meet_v i_o may_v then_o come_v and_o complain_v to_o they_o of_o your_o great_a sin_n but_o in_o stead_n of_o come_v i_o send_v they_o this_o answer_n and_o hereby_o give_v they_o notice_n and_o 〈◊〉_d ready_a to_o satisfy_v any_o that_o shall_v desire_v further_a proof_n and_o in_o stead_n of_o declare_v by_o letter_n the_o offence_n i_o do_v by_o print_v declare_v it_o and_o require_v of_o the_o church_n especial_o mr_n sympson_n church_n as_o they_o will_v not_o be_v guilty_a of_o suffer_v know_v sin_n in_o the_o church_n as_o they_o will_v not_o suffer_v sin_n to_o lie_v upon_o a_o brother_n and_o as_o they_o will_v vindicate_v the_o glory_n and_o honour_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o call_v mr_n sympson_n to_o a_o account_n and_o admonish_v he_o and_o bring_v he_o to_o public_a repentance_n for_o his_o public_a sin_n or_o else_o upon_o impenitency_n and_o obstinacy_n that_o they_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o i_o believe_v the_o sin_n he_o be_v charge_v with_o will_v fall_v under_o the_o subject_n of_o that_o dreadful_a sentence_n according_a to_o what_o sin_n yourselves_o judge_v that_o sentence_n be_v to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o apol._n pag._n 9_o but_o if_o mr_n sympson_n church_n neglect_n and_o will_v not_o question_v this_o sin_n than_o i_o desire_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n of_o that_o communion_n to_o send_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o apologist_n and_o to_o charge_v they_o with_o their_o countenance_v of_o sin_n and_o if_o the_o church_n will_v still_o bear_v and_o wink_v at_o sin_n and_o continue_v impenitent_a that_o then_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n namely_o mr_n lockiers_n mr_n carter_n dr_n holmes_n etc._n etc._n do_v pronounce_v the_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o apologist_n church_n and_o further_o to_o dèclare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a to_o send_v also_o to_o new-england_n and_o give_v notice_n to_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o separation_n that_o they_o may_v non-communion_n the_o apologist_n church_n but_o if_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o the_o apologist_n and_o all_o the_o church_n of_o their_o own_o communion_n will_v all_o hold_v to_o favour_v sin_n neither_o question_n the_o apologist_n nor_o their_o church_n than_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o clear_a instance_n of_o the_o partiality_n of_o those_o church_n and_o of_o their_o allow_v of_o sin_n among_o themselves_o and_o of_o the_o insuâ—…ticiencie_n of_o those_o remedy_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n declaration_n and_o protestation_n finis_fw-la finis_fw-la calv._n epist_n 65._o melanct._n verum_fw-la si_fw-la in_o nobis_fw-la omnibus_fw-la esset_fw-la be_v animus_n qul_fw-la esse_fw-la debet_fw-la aliquod_fw-la forsan_fw-la remedium_fw-la posset_n inveniti_fw-la et_fw-la certè_fw-la foedum_fw-la exemplum_fw-la transmiâ—…imus_fw-la ad_fw-la posterot_n etc._n etc._n august_n vincentio_n epist._n 48._o nunc_fw-la vero_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la tibi_fw-la nihil_fw-la profit_n non_fw-la puto_fw-la nihil_fw-la ijs_fw-la profuturam_fw-la qui_fw-la eam_fw-la legere_fw-la cum_fw-la deitimore_n &_o sine_fw-la personarum_fw-la acceptione_n curaverint_fw-la a_o beza_n epist._n 1._o and_o 1._o duditio_fw-la dominus_fw-la te_fw-la totamque_fw-la familiam_fw-la ob_fw-la omni_fw-la malo_fw-la ac_fw-la praesertim_fw-la a_o daemoniss_n meridianis_fw-la istie_a obambulantibus_fw-la custodiat_fw-la custodiat_fw-la mat._n 1._o v._n 18_o 19_o act_n 7._o from_o v_o 2._o to_o v_o 57_o act_n 22._o v_o 1._o to_o five_o 2â—…_n act_n cap_n 24._o act_n cap._n 26._o 26._o justin._n mart._n 2._o apolog._n pro_fw-la christianis_fw-la tertul._n apol._n athenag_n apol._n vel_fw-la legatio_fw-la pro_fw-la christianis_fw-la athanas._n apol._n arnobij_fw-la apol._n eulog_n apologâ—…t_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la martyr_n martyr_n zuinglij_fw-la apol_n qua_fw-la ad_fw-la crimina_fw-la respondet_fw-la apologet._n contra_fw-la episcop_n constant._n bucer_n apolog._n contra_fw-la brentium_n dannaei_fw-la apolog._n pro_fw-la helvet_n ecclesijs_fw-la apolog_fw-la dan._n pro_fw-la adoratione_n melancthonis_n apol._n august_n confess_v apolog._n pro_fw-la luthero_n gualtb_n apol_n pro_fw-la zuinglio_n beza_n apolog._n jevelli_n apolog._n eccl._n anglicanae_n mort._n apol._n cathol_a cathol_a scâ—…venfeld_n apol._n contra_fw-la fabium_fw-la apol_n ad_fw-la regeâ—…_n hung._n de_fw-fr mediatione_fw-la stancari_fw-la apolog._n vorstij_fw-la thesis_n apolog._n exeg_n apol._n oratio_fw-la apolog._n bertij_fw-la apolog._n apolog._n remonstrantium_fw-la apolog._n schast_a francae_fw-la d._n p._n dirick_n pâ—…ps_v apol_n apolog._n episcop_n francisc._n the_o saint_n tâ—_n cl._n cl._n apology_n of_o the_o brownist_n robin_n apolog._n justif._n of_o separate_a separate_a apolog._n for_o ch._n cove_n apol._n reply_v davenport_n *_o page_n 4._o 11_o 19_o 12_o 24._o apolog._n apolog._n m_o s._n to_o a._n s._n cap._n 5._o pag._n 83._o apolog._n dissert_n de_fw-fr guber_n eccl._n pag._n 620._o quinam_fw-la bujuâ—…_n criminis_fw-la rei_fw-la judicentur_fw-la i_o quidem_fw-la latet_fw-la neque_fw-la in_o qirere_fw-la ad_fw-la nos_fw-la attinet_fw-la hoc_fw-la scio_fw-la noâ—…_n convenire_fw-la in_o eos_fw-la qui_fw-la intra_fw-la sententiae_fw-la nostrae_fw-la terminos_fw-la se_fw-la continent_n apolog._n to_o his_o love_a friend_n mr_n henry_n king_n mr_n tost_n mr_n smith_n mr_n raner_n mr_n map_n apolog._n apol._n justa_fw-la &_o necessaria_fw-la per_fw-la joh._n robins_n cap._n 6._o de_fw-fr conjugio_fw-la per_fw-la pastor_n ecclesiae_fw-la celebrato_fw-la reformat_fw-la of_o ch._n govern._n in_o scotland_n pag._n 4_o 5_o 18_o 19_o reformat_fw-la of_o ch._n govern._n in_o scotland_n pag._n 10._o reformat_fw-la of_o ch._n govern._n pag._n 18._o it_o be_v lay_v for_o a_o common_a ground_n by_o the_o divine_n in_o all_o the_o â—…eformed_a church_n that_o where_o a_o whole_a nation_n be_v convert_v to_o the_o christian_a faith_n every_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v leave_v to_o itself_o as_o if_o it_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o nation_n but_o that_o christ_n have_v provide_v a_o way_n and_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o common_a national_n government_n to_o preserve_v all_o the_o churchâ—…_n in_o unity_n and_o peace_n apolog._n page_n 9_o meâ—…ch_o adam_n vita_fw-la whitak_n pag._n 177._o mr_n raâ—…b_n narration_n of_o ch._n course_n p._n 1._o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n in_o new-england_n come_v at_o first_o to_o they_o in_o plymouth_n to_o crave_v their_o direction_n in_o ch._n course_n and_o make_v they_o their_o pattern_n apolog._n letter_n mr_n cotton_v letter_n examine_v and_o answer_v pag._n 44._o mr_n cotton_n himself_o and_o other_o most_o eminent_a minister_n in_o nâ—…w-england_n have_v free_o confess_v that_o notwithstanding_o their_o former_a profession_n of_o ministry_n in_o old_a england_n yet_o in_o new-england_n till_o they_o receive_v a_o particular_a call_n from_o a_o particular_a church_n that_o they_o be_v but_o private_a christian_n apolog._n robin_n p._n 10_o 11._o etc._n etc._n 12._o de_fw-fr eccl._n angl._n angl._n robin_n apol._n cap._n 12._o p_o 78._o propria_fw-la inquâ—…_n &_o peculiaria_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la verbi_fw-la auditionem_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la noâ—…_n annumero_fw-la â—…pote_fw-la inqua_fw-la non_fw-la intercedit_fw-la inter_fw-la docentem_fw-la &_o discentem_fw-la communio_fw-la spiritualiâ—…_n sive_fw-la eccl._n sive_fw-la personalis_fw-la nisi_fw-la ex_fw-la union_n prae_fw-la via_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la aut_fw-la personal_a robin_n catechis_n quest._n may_v all_o the_o faithful_a partake_v in_o the_o sacrament_n ans._n no_o except_o they_o be_v also_o add_v to_o some_o particular_a congregation_n apolog._n letter_n out_o of_o holland_n de_fw-fr ecclesijs_fw-la reformatis_fw-la quid_fw-la aliud_fw-la dicam_fw-la eas_fw-la pro_fw-la veris_fw-la &_o genuinis_fw-la etc._n etc._n ecclesijs_fw-la bahemus_fw-la cum_fw-la eisdem_fw-la in_o sacris_fw-la dei_fw-la communionem_fw-la prositemur_fw-la &_o quantum_fw-la in_o nobis_fw-la est_fw-la colimus_fw-la conciones_fw-la publicas_fw-la ab_fw-la illarum_fw-la pastoribus_fw-la habitas_fw-la ex_fw-la
be_v so_o many_o as_o they_o can_v meet_v in_o one_o place_n but_o have_v more_o meet_v place_n yet_o in_o imitation_n of_o the_o scripture_n give_v that_o ground_n to_o some_o who_o have_v ask_v they_o a_o reason_n they_o make_v city_n church_n but_o one_o and_o the_o minister_n be_v minister_n in_o common_a of_o they_o all_o preach_v in_o their_o course_n in_o the_o several_a meeting_n place_n and_o govern_v in_o common_a and_o this_o they_o do_v to_o keep_v near_o to_o apostolical_a practice_n whereas_o now_o in_o the_o country_n where_o village_n be_v and_o the_o meeting_n be_v scatter_v they_o do_v not_o all_o preach_v to_o all_o and_o to_o add_v this_o further_a to_o show_v your_o unsafe_a way_n of_o practise_v in_o the_o way_n of_o your_o particular_a congregation_n over_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o our_o church_n in_o england_n your_o congregation_n as_o in_o london_n where_o the_o meeting_n place_n be_v and_o the_o minister_n reside_v be_v make_v up_o of_o member_n as_o of_o some_o live_n in_o london_n so_o of_o some_o in_o surrey_n middlesex_n hartfordsheire_n essex_n where_o they_o have_v fixum_fw-la domicilium_fw-la being_n twenty_o mile_n asunder_o and_o many_o member_n meet_v but_o sometime_o in_o a_o month_n where_o neither_o minister_n can_v oversee_v they_o nor_o member_n watch_v over_o one_o another_o not_o know_v what_o the_o conversation_n of_o each_o other_o be_v which_o yet_o be_v bring_v as_o the_o main_a ground_n for_o your_o church-fellowship_n which_o non-residencie_a of_o the_o member_n from_o one_o another_o and_o of_o the_o officer_n from_o so_o many_o of_o the_o member_n whether_o it_o overthrow_v not_o and_o be_v not_o point_v blank_a against_o many_o of_o your_o principle_n of_o the_o churchway_n i_o leave_v to_o yourselves_o to_o judge_v beside_o that_o it_o be_v without_o any_o primitive_a pattern_n and_o example_n of_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n the_o church_n be_v still_o style_v according_a to_o the_o place_n where_o they_o live_v and_o meet_v as_o in_o rom._n 1._o 7._o to_o all_o that_o be_v in_o rome_n belove_v of_o god_n call_v to_o be_v saint_n and_o so_o in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o corinthian_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o be_v at_o corinth_n and_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o give_v i_o any_o primitive_a pattern_n of_o any_o who_o belong_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n corinth_n jerusalem_n that_o be_v be_v stand_v member_n of_o those_o church_n who_o live_v and_o inhabit_v ten_o mile_n twenty_o five_o mile_n etc._n etc._n round_o about_o those_o city_n so_o that_o we_o find_v here_o in_o this_o three_o instance_n namely_o in_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o first_o instance_n in_o the_o qualification_n of_o your_o member_n that_o the_o additament_n be_v on_o your_o side_n and_o not_o on_o the_o reform_a church_n to_o the_o three_o head_n namely_o the_o reason_n couch_v and_o hint_v for_o your_o own_o practice_n and_o against_o the_o practice_n and_o way_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n to_o the_o first_o reason_n i_o answer_v as_o the_o relate_n of_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n be_v not_o proper_a so_o this_o argument_n hint_v here_o be_v not_o proper_o express_v for_o their_o might_n be_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n and_o government_n as_o be_v maintain_v against_o you_o namely_o but_o two_o or_o three_o distinct_a meet_v place_n and_o yet_o not_o church_n rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n nor_o apostle_n stay_v to_o the_o set_n up_o of_o church_n until_o they_o rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n but_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o those_o expression_n we_o do_v not_o imagine_v but_o may_v you_o not_o or_o can_v you_o not_o have_v imagine_v it_o though_o you_o do_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o and_o what_o by_o this_o that_o the_o apostle_n shall_v stay_v the_o set_n up_o of_o any_o church_n at_o all_o until_o they_o rise_v to_o make_v such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n as_o may_v make_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n do_v you_o carry_v the_o word_n in_o reference_n only_o to_o that_o numerous_a multiplication_n or_o simple_o and_o positive_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o stay_v so_o long_o in_o any_o city_n as_o to_o set_v up_o any_o church_n at_o all_o now_o if_o you_o will_v have_v your_o word_n interpret_v in_o the_o first_o sense_n then_o judge_v how_o improper_a the_o speech_n and_o narration_n of_o your_o mind_n be_v for_o than_o it_o shall_v have_v go_v thus_o that_o the_o apostle_n shall_v stay_v the_o set_n up_o of_o so_o many_o church_n until_o they_o rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n for_o the_o deny_v the_o set_n up_o of_o any_o church_n and_o at_o all_o agree_v not_o with_o the_o follow_a word_n until_o they_o rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n the_o former_a be_v a_o diminutive_a nay_o a_o negative_a and_o can_v agree_v to_o such_o a_o augmentative_a as_o the_o latter_a beside_o your_o first_o word_n carry_v in_o reference_n to_o the_o follow_v have_v no_o strength_n to_o prove_v what_o you_o bring_v they_o for_o namely_o what_o you_o allow_v and_o practise_v or_o what_o you_o disallow_v for_o though_o the_o apostle_n shall_v not_o stay_v so_o long_o as_o the_o set_n up_o so_o many_o church_n as_o may_v arise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n of_o several_a and_o sundry_a congregation_n yet_o there_o may_v be_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a classical_a church_n a_o church_n consist_v of_o more_o than_o can_v meet_v in_o one_o place_n which_o be_v the_o controversy_n between_o we_o but_o if_o you_o understand_v your_o word_n simple_o and_o positive_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o stay_v the_o set_n up_o of_o any_o church_n at_o all_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o remember_v your_o own_o principle_n and_o expression_n in_o many_o book_n and_o discourse_n of_o your_o way_n that_o the_o apostle_n be_v the_o founder_n of_o the_o first_o church_n as_o at_o corinth_n rome_n and_o for_o jerusalem_n especial_o which_o be_v the_o particular_a church_n we_o most_o stand_v upon_o the_o apostle_n stay_v long_o enough_o there_o to_o set_v up_o not_o only_o any_o church_n at_o all_o but_o many_o to_o make_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n as_o be_v stand_v for_o as_o will_v appear_v both_o by_o act_n 8._o act_n 15._o act_n 21._o and_o it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr_n robinson_n that_o jerusalem_n be_v never_o without_o some_o of_o the_o apostle_n there_o which_o the_o two_o first_o chapter_n of_o the_o galatian_n give_v a_o strong_a ground_n for_o beside_o the_o many_o presbyter_n that_o belong_v thereunto_o and_o so_o for_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n paul_n stay_v at_o one_o time_n in_o those_o part_n three_o year_n together_o long_a enough_o to_o make_v so_o many_o church_n as_o may_v make_v a_o presbyterial_a combination_n which_o that_o of_o the_o act_n chap._n 20._o vers_fw-la 17_o 18_o 25_o 28_o 29_o 31._o do_v give_v hint_n enough_o for_o if_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o answer_n to_o a_o narration_n will_v permit_v to_o draw_v they_o out_o at_o length_n to_o the_o second_o reason_n hint_v that_o those_o precept_n obey_v your_o elder_n and_o they_o that_o be_v over_o you_o be_v to_o be_v sure_o mean_v of_o the_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n set_v over_o they_o in_o each_o particular_a congregation_n respective_o and_o to_o be_v as_o certain_o the_o intendment_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o in_o those_o command_n wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v that_o in_o scripture_n a_o particular_a church_n consist_v of_o more_o congregation_n than_o one_o and_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n feed_v they_o and_o govern_v they_o in_o common_a as_o at_o jerusalem_n and_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o low_a country_n in_o city_n there_o as_o at_o amsterdam_n etc._n etc._n all_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n be_v their_o own_o minister_n and_o elder_n as_o the_o husband_n be_v the_o own_o of_o their_o wife_n and_o those_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o all_o their_o pastor_n and_o minister_n and_o not_o of_o some_o only_a or_o in_o respect_n of_o some_o and_o not_o of_o the_o rest_n and_o it_o be_v as_o certain_o the_o intendment_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o in_o that_o command_n wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n that_o obey_v your_o elder_n etc._n etc._n be_v mean_v not_o of_o some_o but_o of_o they_o all_o 2._o in_o church_n by_o their_o combination_n consist_v of_o many_o congregation_n where_o ordinary_o some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n feed_v some_o congregation_n and_o not_o the_o rest_n minister_n be_v fix_v some_o to_o that_o congregation_n and_o other_o to_o other_o congregation_n yet_o there_o be_v a_o government_n in_o common_a by_o all_o the_o presbyter_n of_o