the_o word_n be_v preach_v and_o the_o sacrament_n be_v administer_v they_o make_v the_o church_n visible_a to_o who_o themselves_o be_v visible_a but_o not_o to_o other_o as_o where_o your_o sacrament_n be_v administer_v and_o your_o doctrine_n preach_v it_o be_v visible_a that_o there_o be_v a_o popish_a church_n but_o this_o may_v perhaps_o be_v visible_a to_o they_o only_o who_o be_v present_a at_o these_o performance_n and_o to_o other_o as_o secret_a as_o if_o they_o have_v never_o be_v perform_v 20._o obj._n but_o s._n austin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o impudent_a abominable_a detestible_a speech_n etc._n etc._n to_o say_v the_o church_n have_v perish_v answ_n 1._o all_o that_o s._n austin_n say_v be_v not_o true_a 2._o though_o this_o be_v true_a it_o be_v nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n unless_o you_o will_v conceive_v it_o all_o one_o not_o to_o be_v and_o not_o to_o be_v conspicuous_o visible_a 3._o this_o very_a speech_n that_o the_o church_n perish_v may_v be_v false_a and_o impudent_a in_o the_o donatist_n and_o yet_o not_o so_o in_o the_o protestant_n for_o there_o be_v no_o incongruity_n that_o what_o have_v live_v 500_o year_n may_v perish_v in_o 1600._o 21._o obj._n while_o protestant_n deny_v the_o perpetuity_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n they_o destroy_v their_o own_o present_a church_n answ_n i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o the_o truth_n of_o any_o present_a church_n depend_v upon_o the_o perpetual_a visibility_n nay_o nor_o upon_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o that_o which_o be_v past_a or_o future_a for_o what_o sense_n be_v there_o that_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o god_n almighty_n to_o restore_v to_o a_o flourish_a estate_n a_o church_n which_o oppression_n have_v make_v invisible_a to_o repair_v that_o which_o be_v ruin_v to_o reform_v that_o which_o be_v corrupt_v or_o to_o revive_v that_o which_o be_v dead_a nay_o what_o reason_n be_v there_o but_o that_o by_o ordinary_a mean_n this_o may_v be_v do_v so_o long_o as_o the_o scripture_n by_o divine_a providence_n be_v preserve_v in_o their_o integrity_n and_o authority_n as_o a_o commonwealth_n though_o never_o so_o far_o collapse_v and_o overrun_v with_o disorder_n be_v yet_o in_o possibility_n of_o be_v reduce_v unto_o its_o original_a state_n so_o long_o as_o the_o ancient_a law_n and_o fundamental_a constitution_n be_v extant_a and_o remain_v inviolate_a from_o whence_o man_n may_v be_v direct_v how_o to_o make_v such_o a_o reformation_n but_o s._n austin_n urge_v this_o very_a argument_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v good_a i_o answer_v that_o i_o doubt_v much_o of_o the_o consequence_n and_o my_o reason_n be_v because_o you_o yourselves_o acknowledge_v that_o even_o general_a council_n and_o therefore_o much_o more_o particular_a doctor_n though_o infallible_a in_o their_o determination_n be_v yet_o in_o their_o reason_n and_o argument_n whereupon_o they_o ground_n they_o subject_a to_o like_a passion_n and_o error_n with_o other_o man_n 22._o obj._n last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o all_o divine_n define_v schism_n a_o division_n from_o the_o true_a church_n and_o from_o thence_o collect_v that_o there_o must_v be_v a_o know_a church_n from_o which_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o man_n to_o depart_v answer_v i_o may_v very_o just_o question_v your_o antecedent_n and_o desire_v you_o to_o consider_v whether_o schism_n be_v not_o rather_o or_o at_o least_o be_v not_o as_o well_o a_o division_n of_o the_o church_n as_o from_o it_o a_o separation_n not_o of_o a_o part_n from_o the_o whole_a but_o of_o some_o part_n from_o the_o other_o and_o if_o you_o like_v not_o this_o definition_n i_o may_v desire_v you_o to_o inform_v i_o in_o those_o many_o schism_n which_o have_v happen_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o of_o the_o part_n be_v the_o church_n and_o which_o be_v divide_v from_o it_o but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v certain_o your_o consequence_n be_v most_o unreasonable_a for_o though_o whensoever_o there_o be_v a_o schism_n it_o must_v necessary_o suppose_v a_o church_n existent_a there_o yet_o sure_o we_o may_v define_v a_o schism_n that_o be_v declare_v what_o the_o word_n signify_v for_o defining_n be_v no_o more_o though_o at_o this_o present_a there_o be_v neither_o schism_n nor_o church_n in_o the_o world_n unless_o you_o will_v say_v that_o we_o can_v tell_v what_o a_o rose_n be_v or_o what_o the_o word_n rose_n signify_v but_o only_o in_o the_o summer_n when_o we_o have_v rose_n or_o that_o in_o the_o world_n to_o come_v when_o man_n shall_v not_o marry_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o know_v what_o it_o be_v to_o marry_o or_o that_o the_o plague_n be_v not_o a_o disease_n but_o only_o when_o some_o body_n be_v infect_v or_o that_o adultery_n be_v not_o a_o sin_n unless_o there_o be_v adulterer_n or_o that_o before_o adam_n have_v a_o child_n he_o know_v not_o and_o god_n can_v not_o have_v tell_v he_o what_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o father_n certain_o sir_n you_o have_v forget_v your_o metaphysic_n which_o you_o so_o much_o glory_n in_o if_o you_o know_v not_o that_o the_o connexion_n of_o essential_a predicate_v with_o their_o subject_n be_v eternal_a and_o depend_v not_o at_o all_o upon_o the_o actual_a existence_n in_o the_o thing_n define_v this_o definition_n therefore_o of_o schism_n conclude_v not_o the_o existence_n of_o a_o church_n even_o when_o it_o be_v define_v much_o less_o the_o perpetual_a continuance_n of_o it_o and_o least_o of_o all_o the_o continuance_n of_o it_o in_o perpetual_a visibility_n and_o purity_n which_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n that_o we_o deny_v and_o you_o be_v to_o prove_v 23._o ad_fw-la §_o 12.47_o 48_o 49_o 50_o 51_o 52_o 53_o 54_o 55._o the_o remainder_n of_o this_o chapter_n offer_v argument_n to_o convince_v luther_n and_o all_o that_o follow_v he_o to_o be_v schismatic_n 24._o first_o then_o to_o prove_v we_o schismatic_n you_o urge_v from_o the_o nature_n of_o schism_n thus_o whosoever_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v schismatic_n but_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n therefore_o they_o be_v schismatic_n the_o minor_a or_o second_o proposition_n of_o this_o argument_n you_o prove_v by_o two_o other_o the_o first_o be_v this_o they_o which_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o all_o visible_a church_n must_v needs_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o all_o visible_a church_n therefore_o they_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n the_o second_o argument_n stand_v thus_o the_o roman_a church_n when_o the_o separation_n be_v make_v by_o luther_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o luther_n etc._n etc._n forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n therefore_o they_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n the_o proposition_n you_o confirm_v by_o these_o reason_n 1._o the_o roman_a church_n have_v the_o note_n of_o the_o church_n assign_v by_o protestant_n viz._n the_o true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o due_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n therefore_o she_o be_v the_o true_a church_n 2._o either_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n or_o protestant_n can_v name_v and_o prove_v some_o other_o disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a and_o agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o their_o particular_a doctrine_n or_o else_o they_o must_v say_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n but_o they_o will_v not_o say_v there_o be_v no_o church_n they_o can_v name_v and_o prove_v any_o other_o disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a and_o agree_v with_o the_o protestant_n in_o their_o particular_a doctrine_n because_o this_o can_v be_v the_o greek_a church_n nor_o that_o of_o the_o waldenses_n wicklifite_n hussites_n nor_o that_o of_o the_o muscovite_n armenians_n georgians_n aethiopian_n which_o you_o confirm_v by_o several_a argument_n therefore_o they_o must_v grant_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n 25._o now_o to_o all_o this_o i_o brief_o answer_v thus_o that_o you_o have_v play_v the_o unwise_a builder_n and_o erect_v a_o stately_a structure_n upon_o a_o false_a foundation_n for_o whereas_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v as_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n that_o whosoever_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v schismatical_a i_o tell_v you_o sir_n you_o presume_v too_o much_o upon_o we_o and_o will_v have_v we_o grant_v that_o which_o be_v the_o main_a point_n in_o question_n for_o either_o you_o suppose_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o church_n corrupt_v and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n for_o they_o that_o will_v communicate_v with_o this_o
church_n to_o communicate_v in_o her_o corruption_n or_o you_o suppose_v her_o communion_n uncorrupted_a if_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o will_v take_v for_o grant_v that_o all_o be_v schismatic_n that_o leave_v her_o communion_n though_o it_o be_v corrupt_v you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o proposition_n if_o the_o latter_a you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o supposition_n for_o protestant_n you_o know_v be_v peremptory_a and_o unanimous_a in_o the_o denial_n of_o both_o these_o thing_n both_o that_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v then_o uncorrupted_a and_o that_o they_o be_v true_o schismatic_n who_o leave_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n if_o corrupt_v especial_o if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o and_o luther_n be_v so_o that_o they_o must_v either_o leave_v her_o communion_n or_o of_o necessity_n communicate_v with_o she_o in_o her_o corruption_n 26._o beside_o although_o it_o be_v grant_v schism_n to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o what_o state_n or_o case_n so_o ever_o it_o be_v and_o that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v schismatic_n for_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o all_o visible_a church_n yet_o you_o fail_v exceed_o of_o clear_v the_o other_o necessary_a point_n undertake_v by_o you_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o neither_o do_v protestant_n as_o you_o mistake_v make_v the_o true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o due_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n now_o these_o you_o know_v be_v very_o different_a thing_n the_o former_a signify_v the_o church_n catholic_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o latter_a a_o particular_a church_n or_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n and_o therefore_o suppose_v out_o of_o courtesy_n we_o shall_v grant_v what_o by_o argument_n you_o can_v never_o evince_v that_o your_o church_n have_v these_o note_n yet_o will_v it_o by_o no_o mean_n follow_v that_o your_o church_n be_v the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o a_o visible_a church_n not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o 27._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o protestant_n must_v either_o grant_v that_o your_o church_n then_o be_v the_o visible_a church_n or_o name_v some_o other_o disagree_v from_o you_o and_o agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o their_o particular_a doctrine_n or_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o to_o use_v s._n paul_n similitude_n the_o head_n shall_v say_v to_o the_o foot_n either_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o i_o be_o the_o whole_a body_n or_o name_v some_o other_o member_n that_o be_v so_o or_o confess_v that_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o which_o the_o foot_n may_v answer_v i_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v a_o body_n and_o yet_o that_o no_o member_n beside_o you_o be_v this_o body_n nor_o yet_o that_o you_o be_v it_o but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o in_o like_a manner_n say_v we_o we_o acknowledge_v a_o church_n there_o be_v corrupt_v indeed_o universal_o but_o yet_o such_o a_o one_o as_o we_o hope_v by_o god_n gracious_a acceptance_n be_v still_o a_o church_n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o name_v any_o one_o society_n that_o be_v this_o church_n and_o yet_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n that_o can_v enforce_v we_o to_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v the_o church_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o that_o one_o of_o the_o worst_a then_o extant_a in_o the_o world_n in_o vain_a therefore_o have_v you_o trouble_v yourself_o in_o prove_v that_o we_o can_v pretend_v that_o either_o the_o greek_n waldenses_n wickliffite_n hussites_n muscovite_n armenians_n georgians_n abyssine_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o all_o this_o discourse_n proceed_v from_o a_o false_a &_o vain_a supposition_n and_o beg_v another_o point_n in_o question_n between_o we_o which_o be_v that_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o one_o communion_n as_o the_o roman_a the_o greek_a etc._n etc._n must_v be_v always_o exclusive_o to_o all_o other_o communion_n the_o whole_a visible_a church_n and_o though_o perhaps_o some_o weak_a protestant_n have_v this_o false_a principle_n settle_v in_o he_o that_o there_o be_v to_o be_v always_o some_o visible_a church_n of_o one_o denomination_n pure_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n may_v be_v wrought_v upon_o and_o prevail_v with_o by_o it_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o protestant_n yet_o why_o it_o shall_v induce_v he_o to_o go_v to_o you_o rather_o than_o the_o greek_a church_n or_o any_o other_o which_o pretend_v to_o perpetual_a succession_n as_o well_o as_o you_o that_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o it_o be_v for_o the_o reason_n which_o aeneas_n silvius_n give_v why_o more_o hold_v the_o pope_n above_o a_o council_n than_o a_o council_n above_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v because_o pope_n do_v give_v bishopric_n and_o archbishopric_n but_o council_n give_v none_o and_o therefore_o sue_v in_o forma_fw-la pauperis_fw-la be_v not_o like_a to_o have_v their_o cause_n very_o well_o maintain_v for_o put_v the_o case_n i_o shall_v grant_v of_o mere_a favour_n that_o there_o must_v be_v always_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o communion_n free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o that_o protestant_n have_v not_o always_o such_o a_o church_n it_o will_v follow_v indeed_o from_o thence_o that_o i_o must_v not_o be_v a_o protestant_n but_o that_o i_o must_v be_v a_o papist_n certain_o it_o will_v follow_v by_o no_o better_a consequence_n than_o this_o if_o you_o will_v leave_v england_n you_o must_v of_o necessity_n go_v to_o rome_n and_o yet_o with_o this_o wretched_a fallacy_n have_v i_o be_v sometime_o abuse_v myself_o and_o know_v many_o other_o poor_a soul_n seduce_v not_o only_o from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o religion_n but_o unto_o you_o i_o beseech_v god_n to_o open_v the_o eye_n of_o all_o that_o love_v the_o truth_n that_o they_o may_v not_o always_o be_v hold_v captive_a under_o such_o miserable_a delusion_n 28._o let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o argument_n which_o you_o build_v upon_o d._n potter_n own_o word_n out_o of_o which_o you_o promise_v unanswerable_a reason_n to_o convince_v protestant_n of_o schism_n 29._o but_o these_o reason_n will_v easy_o be_v answer_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v take_v along_o with_o he_o these_o three_o short_a memorandum_n 30._o first_o that_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o any_o church_n be_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n 31._o second_o that_o impose_v upon_o man_n under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o necessary_a cause_n of_o separation_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n the_o protestant_n allege_v to_o justify_v their_o separation_n from_o which_o church_n of_o rome_n 32._o three_o that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v by_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o by_o cease_v to_o have_v those_o requisite_n which_o constitute_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o it_o as_o faith_n and_o obedience_n this_o by_o refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o any_o church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n and_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n this_o armour_n if_o it_o be_v right_o place_v will_v repel_v all_o those_o battery_n which_o you_o threaten_v we_o with_o all_o 33._o ad_fw-la §_o 13.14_o 15._o the_o first_o be_v a_o sentence_n of_o s._n austin_n against_o donatus_n apply_v to_o luther_n thus_o if_o the_o church_n perish_v what_o church_n bring_v forth_o donatus_n you_o say_v luther_n if_o she_o can_v not_o perish_v what_o madness_n move_v the_o sect_n of_o donatus_n to_o separate_v upon_o pretence_n to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n whereunto_o one_o fair_a answer_n to_o let_v pass_v many_o other_o be_v obvious_a out_o of_o the_o second_o observation_n that_o this_o sentence_n though_o it_o be_v gospel_n as_o it_o be_v not_o be_v impertinent_o apply_v to_o luther_n and_o lutheran_n who_o pretence_n of_o separation_n be_v it_o true_a or_o be_v it_o false_a be_v not_o as_o that_o of_o the_o donatist_n only_o to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n but_o to_o free_v themselves_o from_o a_o necessity_n which_o but_o by_o separate_n be_v unavoidable_a of_o join_v with_o bad_a man_n in_o their_o impiety_n 34._o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o your_o second_o onset_n drive_v only_o at_o those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o true_a church_n be_v invisible_a for_o many_o age_n which_o doctrine_n if_o by_o the_o true_a church_n be_v understand_v the_o pure_a church_n as_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o be_v a_o certain_a truth_n &_o it_o
cleanse_v themselves_o and_o yet_o continue_v part_n of_o the_o body_n and_o what_o reason_n then_o in_o the_o world_n be_v there_o if_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v overcome_v with_o tare_n and_o weed_n of_o superstition_n and_o corruption_n but_o that_o some_o member_n of_o it_o may_v reform_v themselves_o and_o yet_o continue_v still_o true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o be_v make_v no_o member_n but_o the_o better_a by_o their_o reformation_n 50._o we_o acknowledge_v that_o we_o can_v as_o matter_n now_o stand_v separate_a from_o your_o corruption_n but_o we_o must_v depart_v from_o your_o external_n communion_n for_o you_o have_v so_o order_v thing_n that_o whosoever_o will_v communicate_v with_o you_o at_o all_o must_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o your_o corruption_n but_o it_o be_v you_o that_o will_v not_o perceive_v the_o difference_n between_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o be_v in_o external_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o other_o part_n of_o it_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o which_o be_v certain_o false_a that_o no_o two_o man_n or_o church_n divide_v in_o external_a communion_n can_v be_v both_o true_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n 51._o we_o be_v not_o to_o learn_v the_o difference_n between_o schism_n and_o heresy_n for_o heresy_n we_o conceive_v a_o obstinate_a defence_n of_o any_o error_n against_o any_o necessary_a article_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n and_o schism_n a_o causeless_a separation_n of_o one_o part_n of_o the_o church_n from_o another_o but_o this_o we_o say_v that_o if_o we_o convince_v you_o of_o error_n and_o corruption_n profess_a and_o practise_v in_o your_o communion_n than_o we_o can_v be_v schismatic_n for_o refuse_v to_o join_v with_o you_o in_o the_o profession_n of_o these_o error_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o corruption_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v free_v yourselves_o from_o error_n or_o we_o from_o schism_n 52._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o you_o have_v demonstrate_v against_o we_o that_o protestant_n divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n add_v which_o external_a communion_n be_v corrupt_v and_o we_o shall_v confess_v the_o accusation_n and_o glory_n in_o it_o but_o this_o be_v not_o that_o quod_fw-la erat_fw-la demonstrandum_fw-la but_o that_o we_o divide_v ourselves_o from_o the_o church_n that_o be_v make_v ourselves_o outlaw_n from_o it_o and_o no_o member_n of_o it_o and_o moreover_o in_o the_o reason_n of_o your_o separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o your_o church_n you_o be_v mistake_v for_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o because_o she_o your_o church_n as_o because_o your_o church_n external_a communion_n be_v corrupt_v and_o need_v reformation_n 53._o that_o a_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n will_v acquit_v no_o man_n from_o schism_n we_o grant_v very_o willing_o and_o therefore_o say_v that_o it_o concern_v every_o man_n who_o separate_v from_o any_o church_n communion_n even_o as_o much_o as_o his_o salvation_n be_v worth_a to_o look_v most_o careful_o to_o it_o that_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o separation_n be_v just_a and_o necessary_a for_o unless_o it_o be_v necessary_a it_o can_v very_o hardly_o be_v sufficient_a but_o whether_o a_o true_a reformation_n of_o ourselves_o from_o error_n superstition_n and_o impiety_n will_v not_o justify_v our_o separation_n in_o these_o thing_n our_o separation_n i_o say_v from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v themselves_o and_o as_o much_o as_o in_o they_o lie_v hinder_v other_o from_o do_v so_o this_o be_v the_o point_n you_o shall_v have_v speak_v to_o but_o have_v not_o as_o for_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o father_n to_o which_o you_o refer_v we_o for_o the_o determination_n of_o this_o question_n i_o suppose_v by_o what_o i_o have_v say_v above_o the_o reader_n understand_v by_o allege_v they_o you_o have_v gain_v little_a credit_n to_o your_o cause_n or_o person_n and_o that_o if_o they_o be_v competent_a judge_n of_o this_o controversy_n their_o sentence_n be_v against_o you_o much_o rather_o than_o for_o you_o 56._o but_o your_o argument_n you_o conceive_v will_v be_v more_o convince_a if_o we_o consider_v that_o when_o luther_n appear_v there_o be_v not_o two_o distinct_a visible_a true_a church_n one_o pure_a the_o other_o corrupt_v but_o one_o church_n only_o ans_fw-fr the_o ground_n of_o this_o be_v no_o way_n certain_a nor_o here_o sufficient_o prove_v for_o whereas_o you_o say_v history_n be_v silent_a of_o any_o such_o matter_n i_o answer_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o you_o or_o i_o shall_v have_v read_v all_o history_n that_o may_v be_v extant_a of_o this_o matter_n nor_o that_o all_o shall_v be_v extant_a that_o be_v write_v much_o less_o extant_a uncorrupted_a especial_o consider_v your_o church_n which_o have_v lat_o all_o power_n in_o her_o hand_n have_v be_v so_o pernitious_o industrious_a in_o corrupt_v the_o monument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o make_v against_o she_o nor_o that_o all_o record_n shall_v remain_v which_o be_v write_v nor_o that_o all_o shall_v be_v record_v which_o be_v do_v last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o suppose_v a_o visible_a pure_a church_n luther_n must_v be_v a_o schismatic_a who_o separate_v from_o all_o visible_a church_n i_o tell_v you_o if_o you_o will_v suppose_v a_o visible_a church_n extant_a before_o and_o when_o luther_n arise_v conformable_a to_o he_o in_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n necessary_a and_o profitable_a then_o luther_n separate_v not_o from_o this_o church_n but_o adjoin_v himself_o to_o it_o not_o indeed_o in_o place_n which_o be_v not_o necessary_a not_o in_o external_a communion_n which_o be_v impossible_a but_o by_o the_o union_n of_o faith_n and_o charity_n upon_o these_o ground_n i_o say_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o argument_n be_v no_o way_n make_v certain_a yet_o because_o it_o be_v not_o manifest_o false_a i_o be_o content_a to_o let_v it_o pass_v and_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v very_o safe_a for_o i_o to_o do_v so_o for_o you_o build_v nothing_o upon_o it_o which_o i_o may_v not_o fair_o grant_v for_o what_o do_v you_o conclude_v from_o hence_o but_o that_o see_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n but_o corrupt_v luther_n forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o corrupt_a church_n can_v not_o but_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n well_o let_v this_o also_o be_v grant_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o what_o that_o luther_n must_v be_v a_o schismatic_a by_o no_o mean_n for_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n we_o maintain_v to_o be_v schismatical_a hereunto_o may_v be_v add_v that_o though_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v corrupt_v yet_o proper_o speak_v it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n forsake_v the_o whole_a corrupt_a church_n or_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o he_o forsake_v that_o part_n of_o it_o which_o be_v corrupt_v and_o still_o will_v be_v so_o and_o forsake_v not_o but_o only_o reform_v another_o part_n which_o part_v they_o themselves_o be_v and_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o go_v about_o to_o persuade_v we_o that_o they_o forsake_v themselves_o or_o their_o own_o communion_n and_o if_o you_o urge_v that_o they_o join_v themselves_o to_o no_o other_o part_n therefore_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a i_o say_v it_o follow_v not_o in_o as_o much_o as_o themselves_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o still_o continue_v so_o and_o therefore_o can_v no_o more_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a than_o from_o themselves_o thus_o though_o there_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o people_n of_o rome_n to_o who_o the_o plebeian_n join_v themselves_o when_o they_o make_v their_o secession_n into_o the_o aventine_n hill_n yet_o they_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o patrician_n only_o and_o not_o from_o the_o whole_a people_n because_o themselves_o be_v a_o part_n of_o this_o people_n and_o they_o divide_v not_o from_o themselves_o 57_o ad_fw-la §_o 18._o here_o you_o prove_v that_o which_o no_o man_n deny_v that_o corruption_n in_o manner_n yield_v no_o sufficient_a cause_n to_o leave_v the_o church_n yet_o sure_o it_o yield_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o cast_v they_o out_o of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v after_o the_o church_n public_a admonition_n obstinate_a in_o notorious_a impiety_n neither_o do_v the_o cut_n off_o such_o man_n from_o the_o church_n lay_v any_o necessity_n upon_o we_o either_o to_o go_v out_o of_o the_o world_n or_o out_o of_o the_o church_n but_o rather_o put_v these_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n into_o the_o world_n where_o we_o may_v converse_v with_o they_o free_o without_o scandal_n to_o the_o church_n our_o bless_a saviour_n foretell_v you_o say_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o church_n tare_n with_o choice_n
and_o do_v no_o more_o than_o papist_n be_v bind_v to_o justify_v what_o several_a pope_n have_v say_v and_o do_v c._n 5.112_o m._n they_o may_v be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n that_o be_v not_o unite_v in_o external_a communion_n c._n 5.9_o the_o protestant_a doctrine_n of_o merit_n explain_v c._n 4.35_o 36._o the_o author_n motive_n to_o change_v his_o religion_n with_o answer_n to_o they_o pref._n 42.43_o the_o faith_n of_o papist_n resolve_v at_o last_o into_o the_o motive_n of_o credibility_n c._n 2.154_o the_o mischief_n that_o follow_v the_o reformation_n not_o imputable_a to_o it_o c._n 5.92_o n._n what_o make_v point_n necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v c._n 4.4_o 11._o no_o more_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v by_o we_o than_o by_o the_o apostle_n c._n 4.67_o 70_o 71_o 72._o papist_n make_v many_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o god_n never_o make_v so_o c._n 7.7_o all_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n c._n 4.73_o 74._o why_o some_o point_v not_o so_o necessary_a be_v put_v into_o the_o creed_n c._n 4.75_o 76._o protestant_n may_v agree_v in_o necessary_a point_n though_o they_o may_v overvalue_v some_o thing_n they_o hold_v c._n 7.34_o to_o impose_v a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o just_a cause_n of_o separation_n c._n 5.31_o 36_o 40_o 50_o 59_o 60_o 68_o 69._o o._n a_o blind_a obedience_n be_v not_o due_a to_o ecclesiastical_a decision_n though_o our_o practice_n must_v be_v determine_v by_o the_o sentence_n of_o superior_n in_o doubtful_a case_n c._n 5.110_o a_o probable_a opinion_n may_v be_v follow_v according_a to_o the_o roman_a doctor_n though_o it_o be_v not_o the_o safe_a way_n for_o avoid_v sin_n c._n 7_o 8._o optatus_n saying_n impertinent_o urge_v against_o protestant_n c._n 5.99_o 100_o though_o we_o receive_v ordination_n and_o scripture_n from_o a_o false_a church_n yet_o we_o may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n c._n 6.54_o p._n whether_o papist_n or_o protestant_n most_o hazard_v their_o soul_n on_o probability_n c._n 4.57_o what_o we_o believe_v concern_v the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n ans_fw-fr pref._n 18._o whether_o 1_o tim._n 3.15_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n belong_v to_o timothy_n or_o to_o the_o church_n c._n 3.76_o if_o those_o word_n belong_v to_o the_o church_n whether_o they_o may_v not_o signify_v her_o duty_n and_o yet_o that_o she_o may_v err_v in_o neglect_v it_o c._n 3.77_o a_o possibility_n of_o be_v deceive_v argue_v not_o a_o uncertainty_n in_o all_o we_o believe_v c._n 3.26_o 50_o c._n 5.107_o c._n 6.47_o by_o join_v in_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n we_o must_v join_v in_o her_o unlawful_a practice_n c._n 3.11_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n how_o they_o be_v inseparable_a note_n of_o the_o church_n and_o how_o they_o make_v it_o visible_a c._n 5.19_o private_a spirit_n how_o we_o be_v to_o understand_v it_o c._n 2.110_o private_a spirit_n be_v not_o appeal_v to_o i._n e._n to_o dictate_v pretend_v to_o come_v from_o god_n spirit_n when_o controversy_n be_v refer_v to_o scripture_n c._n 2.110_o whether_o one_o be_v leave_v to_o his_o private_a spirit_n reason_n and_o discourse_n by_o deny_v the_o church_n infallibility_n and_o the_o harm_n of_o it_o pref._n 12_o 13._o &_o c._n 2.110_o a_o man_n private_a judgement_n may_v be_v oppose_v to_o the_o public_a when_o reason_n and_o scripture_n warrant_v he_o c._n 5.109_o a_o probable_a opinion_n according_a to_o the_o roman_a doctor_n may_v be_v follow_v though_o it_o be_v not_o the_o safe_a way_n for_o avoid_v sin_n c._n 7.8_o it_o be_v hard_a for_o papist_n to_o resolve_v what_o be_v a_o sufficient_a proposal_n of_o the_o church_n c._n 3.54_o protestant_n be_v on_o the_o sure_a side_n for_o avoid_v sin_n and_o papist_n on_o the_o more_o dangerous_a side_n to_o commit_v sin_n show_v in_o instance_n c._n 7.9_o r._n every_o man_n by_o reason_n must_v judge_v both_o of_o scripture_n and_o the_o church_n c._n 2.111_o 112_o 113_o 118_o 120_o 122._o reason_n and_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n be_v not_o to_o be_v reproach_v for_o the_o private_a spirit_n c._n 2.110_o if_o man_n must_v not_o follow_v their_o reason_n what_o they_o be_v to_o follow_v c._n 2.114_o 115._o some_o kind_n of_o reformation_n may_v be_v so_o necessary_a as_o to_o justify_v separation_n from_o a_o corrupt_a church_n though_o every_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n will_v not_o c._n 5.53_o nothing_o be_v more_o against_o religion_n than_o use_v violence_n to_o introduce_v it_o c._n 5.96_o the_o religion_n of_o protestant_n which_o be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o bible_n a_o wise_a and_o safe_a way_n than_o that_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n show_v at_o large_a c._n 6._o from_o 56._o to_o 72._o inclus_n all_o protestant_n require_v repentance_n to_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o remission_n of_o sin_n to_o justification_n c._n 7.31_o no_o revelation_n know_v to_o be_v so_o may_v be_v reject_v as_o not_o fundamental_a c._n 4.11_o a_o divine_a revelation_n may_v be_v ignorant_o disbelieved_a by_o a_o church_n and_o yet_o it_o may_v continue_v a_o church_n c._n 3.20_o thing_n equal_o reveal_v may_v not_o be_v so_o to_o several_a person_n c._n 3.24_o papist_n can_v have_v reverence_n for_o the_o scripture_n whilst_o they_o advance_v so_o many_o thing_n contrary_a to_o it_o c._n 2.1_o no_o argument_n of_o their_o reverence_n to_o it_o that_o they_o have_v preserve_v it_o entire_a c._n 2.2_o the_o roman_a church_n when_o luther_n separate_v be_v not_o the_o visible_a church_n though_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n c._n 5.26_o 27._o the_o present_a roman_a church_n have_v lose_v all_o authority_n to_o recommend_v what_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v in_o religion_n c._n 2.101_o the_o property_n of_o a_o perfect_a rule_n c._n 2.5.6_o 7._o whether_o the_o popish_a rule_n of_o fundamental_o or_o we_o be_v the_o safe_a c._n 4.63_o s._n right_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n uncertain_a in_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 2._o from_o 63._o to_o 68_o inclusive_a in_o what_o sense_n salvation_n may_v be_v have_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n ans_fw-fr pref._n 5_o 7._o salvation_n depend_v upon_o great_a uncertainty_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 2._o from_o 63._o to_o 73._o inclus_fw-la schism_n whence_o they_o chief_o arise_v and_o what_o continue_v they_o c._n 4.17_o schism_n may_v be_v a_o division_n of_o the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o from_o it_o c._n 5.22_o he_o may_v be_v no_o schismatic_a that_o forsake_v a_o church_n for_o error_n not_o damnable_a ans_fw-fr pref._n 2._o no_o schism_n to_o leave_v a_o corrupt_a church_n when_o otherwise_o we_o must_v communicate_v in_o her_o corruption_n c._n 5.25_o not_o every_o separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o church_n but_o a_o causeless_a one_o be_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n c._n 5.30_o they_o may_v not_o be_v schismatic_n that_o continue_v the_o separation_n from_o rome_n though_o luther_n that_o begin_v it_o have_v be_v a_o schismatic_a c._n 5.4_o &_o c._n 6.14_o the_o scripture_n can_v be_v due_o reverence_v by_o papist_n c._n 2._o n._n 1._o the_o scripture_n how_o prove_v to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n c._n 4.53_o the_o divine_a authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v certain_a though_o it_o be_v not_o self-evident_o certain_a that_o it_o be_v god_n word_n c._n 6.51_o book_n of_o scripture_n now_o hold_v for_o canonical_a which_o the_o roman_a church_n former_o reject_v c._n 2.90_o 91._o whether_o some_o book_n of_o scripture_n define_v for_o canonical_a be_v not_o afterward_o reject_v c._n 3.29_o the_o scripture_n in_o thing_n necessary_a be_v intelligible_a to_o learned_a and_o unlearned_a c._n 2.104_o 105_o 106._o some_o book_n of_o scripture_n question_v by_o the_o father_n as_o well_o as_o by_o protestant_n c._n 2.34_o the_o scripture_n have_v great_a authority_n from_o internal_a argument_n c._n 2.47_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n inspiration_n depend_v not_o on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n pref._n 14._o &_o c._n 6.45_o if_o the_o scripture_n contain_v all_o necessary_a truth_n popery_n be_v confute_v pref._n 30._o to_o 38._o inclusive_a the_o true_a meaning_n of_o scripture_n not_o uncertain_a in_o necessary_a point_n c._n 2.84_o a_o determinate_a sense_n of_o obscure_a place_n of_o scripture_n be_v not_o needful_a c._n 2.127_o 150._o the_o sense_n of_o plain_a place_n of_o scripture_n may_v be_v know_v by_o the_o same_o mean_n by_o which_o the_o papist_n know_v the_o sense_n of_o those_o place_n that_o prove_v the_o church_n c._n 2.150_o 151._o god_n may_v give_v mean_n to_o the_o church_n to_o know_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a it_o shall_v have_v that_o sense_n c._n 2.93_o it_o
devil_n himself_o if_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o it_o but_o i_o will_v show_v you_o that_o divers_a way_n the_o doctor_n of_o your_o church_n do_v the_o principal_a and_o proper_a work_n of_o the_o socinian_o for_o they_o undermine_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n by_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v support_v by_o those_o pillar_n of_o the_o faith_n which_o alone_o be_v fit_a and_o able_a to_o support_v it_o i_o mean_v scripture_n and_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n 17._o for_o scripture_n your_o man_n deny_v very_o plain_o and_o frequent_o that_o this_o doctrine_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o it_o see_v if_o you_o please_v this_o plain_o teach_v and_o urge_v very_o carnest_o by_o cardinal_n hosius_n de_fw-fr author_n sac._n scrip._n l._n 3._o p._n 53._o by_o gordonius_n huntlaeus_n contr._n tom._n 1._o controu._n 1_o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la c._n 19_o by_o gretserus_n and_o tanerus_fw-la in_fw-la colloquio_fw-la ratesbon_n and_o also_o by_o vega_n possevin_n wiekus_fw-la and_o other_o 18._o and_o then_o for_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o ancient_n that_o that_o also_o deliver_v it_o not_o by_o who_o be_v we_o teach_v but_o by_o papist_n only_o who_o be_v it_o that_o make_v know_v to_o all_o the_o world_n that_o eusebius_n that_o great_a searcher_n and_o devourer_n of_o the_o christian_a library_n be_v a_o arrian_n be_v it_o not_o your_o great_a achilles_n cardinal_z perron_n in_o his_o 3._o book_n 2._o chap._n of_o his_o reply_n to_o k._n james_n who_o be_v it_o that_o inform_v we_o that_o origen_n who_o never_o be_v question_v for_o any_o error_n in_o this_o matter_n in_o or_o near_o his_o time_n deny_v the_o divinity_n of_o the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o great_a cardinal_n in_o his_o book_n of_o the_o eucharist_n against_o m._n du_fw-fr plessis_n l._n 2._o c._n 7_o who_o be_v it_o that_o pretend_v that_o irenaeus_n have_v say_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o that_o shall_v now_o hold_v will_v be_v 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that_o reason_n can_v never_o lead_v any_o man_n to_o error_n and_o after_o you_o have_v do_v so_o you_o proclaim_v to_o all_o the_o world_n as_o you_o in_o this_o pamphlet_n do_v very_o frequent_o that_o if_o man_n follow_v their_o reason_n and_o discourse_n they_o will_v if_o they_o understand_v themselves_o be_v lead_v to_o socinianism_n and_o thus_o you_o see_v with_o what_o probable_a matter_n i_o may_v furnish_v out_o and_o justify_v my_o accusation_n if_o i_o shall_v charge_v you_o with_o lead_v man_n to_o socinianism_n yet_o i_o do_v not_o conceive_v that_o i_o have_v ground_n enough_o for_o this_o odious_a imputation_n and_o much_o less_o shall_v you_o have_v charge_v protestant_n with_o it_o who_o you_o confess_v to_o abhor_v and_o detest_v it_o and_o who_o fight_n against_o it_o not_o with_o the_o break_a reed_n and_o out_o of_o the_o paper_n fortress_n of_o a_o imaginary_a infallibility_n which_o be_v only_o to_o make_v sport_n for_o their_o adversary_n but_o with_o the_o 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you_o know_v all_o protestant_n with_o one_o consent_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v false_a and_o therefore_o without_o proof_n to_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v be_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n 4._o that_o suppose_v luther_n and_o they_o which_o do_v first_o separate_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n it_o be_v certain_o consequent_a that_o all_o who_o persist_v in_o this_o division_n must_v be_v so_o likewise_o which_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a as_o you_o pretend_v for_o they_o which_o alter_v without_o necessary_a cause_n the_o present_a government_n of_o any_o state_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a do_v commit_v a_o great_a fault_n whereof_o notwithstanding_o they_o may_v be_v innocent_a who_o continue_v this_o alteration_n and_o to_o the_o utmost_a of_o their_o power_n oppose_v a_o change_n though_o to_o the_o former_a state_n when_o continuance_n of_o time_n have_v once_o settle_v the_o present_a thus_o have_v i_o know_v some_o of_o your_o own_o church_n condemn_v 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we_o a_o unavoidable_a necessity_n of_o divide_v unity_n either_o with_o you_o or_o with_o god_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v rather_o to_o be_v do_v be_v you_o judge_n 11._o iraeneus_n also_o say_v not_o simple_o which_o only_o will_v do_v you_o service_n there_o can_v possible_o be_v any_o so_o important_a reformation_n as_o to_o justify_v a_o separation_n from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v but_o only_o they_o can_v make_v any_o corruption_n so_o great_a as_o be_v the_o pernitiousness_n of_o a_o schism_n now_o they_o here_o be_v a_o relative_a and_o have_v a_o antecedent_n express_v in_o iraeneus_n which_o if_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o you_o will_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o what_o irenaeus_n say_v fall_v heavy_a upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o touch_v protestant_n nothing_o at_o all_o for_o the_o man_n he_o speak_v of_o be_v such_o as_o propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la for_o trifle_v or_o small_a cause_n divide_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n such_o as_o speak_v of_o peace_n and_o make_v war_n such_o as_o strain_v at_o gnat_n and_o swallow_v camel_n and_o these_o say_v he_o can_v make_v no_o reformation_n of_o any_o such_o importance_n as_o to_o countervail_v the_o danger_n of_o a_o division_n now_o see_v the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o we_o pretend_v and_o be_v ready_a to_o justify_v because_o we_o will_v not_o be_v partaker_n with_o she_o in_o superstition_n idolatry_n impiety_n and_o most_o cruel_a tyranny_n both_o upon_o the_o body_n and_o soul_n of_o man_n who_o can_v say_v that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n may_v be_v just_o esteem_v modicae_fw-la &_o quaelibet_fw-la causae_fw-la on_o the_o other_o side_n see_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o be_v contemporary_a to_o irenaeus_n do_v as_o much_o as_o in_o he_o lay_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n unity_n many_o great_a church_n for_o not_o conform_v to_o he_o in_o a_o indifferent_a matter_n upon_o a_o difference_n non_fw-fr de_fw-fr catholico_n dogmate_n sed_fw-la de_fw-la ritu_fw-la vel_fw-la ritus_fw-la potiùs_fw-la tempore_fw-la not_o about_o any_o catholic_n doctrine_n but_o only_o a_o ceremony_n or_o rather_o about_o the_o time_n of_o observe_v it_o so_o petavius_n value_v it_o which_o be_v just_o all_o one_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o france_n shall_v excommunicate_v those_o of_o their_o own_o religion_n in_o england_n for_o not_o keep_v christmas_n upon_o the_o same_o day_n with_o they_o and_o see_v he_o be_v reprehend_v sharp_o and_o bitter_o for_o it_o by_o most_o of_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o world_n as_o 2._o as_o euseb_n hist_o l._n 5._o c._n 24._o perron_n replic_n l._n 3._o c._n 2._o eusebius_n testify_v and_o as_o cardinal_n perron_n though_o mince_v the_o matter_n yet_o confess_v by_o this_o very_a irenaeus_n himself_o
be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o declaim_v as_o you_o do_v than_o to_o dispute_v against_o it_o but_o these_o man_n you_o say_v must_v be_v heretic_n because_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o therefore_o also_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o which_o they_o say_v be_v invisible_a in_o as_o much_o as_o the_o invisible_a church_n communicate_v with_o the_o visible_a 35._o ans_fw-fr i_o may_v very_o just_o desire_v some_o proof_n of_o that_o which_o so_o confident_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v no_o persecute_a and_o oppress_v maintainer_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o day_n of_o our_o forefather_n but_o only_o such_o as_o dissemble_v their_o opinion_n and_o live_v in_o your_o communion_n and_o true_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v many_o of_o this_o condition_n i_o suppose_v i_o can_v make_v my_o affirmative_a much_o more_o probable_a than_o you_o can_v make_v your_o negative_a we_o read_v in_o scripture_n that_o elias_n conceive_v there_o be_v none_o leave_v beside_o himself_o in_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n of_o israel_n who_o have_v not_o revolt_v from_o god_n and_o yet_o god_n himself_o assure_v we_o that_o he_o be_v deceive_v and_o if_o such_o a_o man_n a_o prophet_n and_o one_o of_o the_o great_a err_v in_o his_o judgement_n touch_v his_o own_o time_n and_o his_o own_o country_n why_o may_v not_o you_o who_o be_v certain_o but_o a_o man_n and_o subject_a to_o the_o same_o passion_n as_o elias_n be_v mistake_v in_o think_v that_o in_o former_a age_n in_o some_o country_n or_o other_o there_o be_v not_o always_o some_o good_a christian_n which_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o external_o bow_v their_o knee_n to_o your_o baal_n but_o this_o answer_n i_o be_o content_a you_o shall_v take_v no_o notice_n of_o and_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o tell_v you_o that_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o this_o suppose_a invisible_a church_n do_v hypocritical_o communicate_v with_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o her_o corruption_n than_o protestant_n have_v cause_n nay_o necessity_n to_o forsake_v their_o communion_n also_o for_o otherwise_o they_o must_v have_v join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o impiety_n and_o see_v they_o have_v such_o cause_n to_o separate_v they_o presume_v their_o separation_n can_v be_v schismatical_a 36._o yes_o you_o reply_v to_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o they_o with_o who_o they_o agree_v in_o faith_n be_v the_o most_o formal_a and_o proper_a sin_n of_o schism_n answ_n very_o true_a but_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v wherein_o i_o will_v glad_o be_v inform_v whether_o i_o be_v bind_v for_o fear_n of_o schism_n to_o communicate_v with_o those_o that_o believe_v as_o i_o do_v only_o in_o lawful_a thing_n or_o absolute_o in_o every_o thing_n whether_o i_o be_o to_o join_v with_o they_o in_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n and_o not_o only_o in_o a_o common_a profession_n of_o the_o faith_n wherein_o we_o agree_v but_o in_o a_o common_a dissimulation_n or_o abjuration_n of_o it_o this_o be_v that_o which_o you_o will_v have_v they_o do_v or_o else_o forsooth_o they_o must_v be_v schismatic_n but_o hereafter_o i_o pray_v remember_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o communicate_v even_o with_o true_a believer_n in_o wicked_a action_n nay_o that_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n herein_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o and_o then_o i_o dare_v say_v even_o you_o be_v their_o judge_n the_o reasonableness_n of_o their_o cause_n to_o separate_v shall_v according_a to_o my_o first_o observation_n justify_v their_o separation_n from_o be_v schismatical_a 37._o arg._n but_o the_o property_n of_o schism_n according_a to_o d._n potter_n be_v to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o church_n from_o which_o it_o separate_v and_o these_o protestant_n have_v this_o property_n therefore_o they_o be_v schismatic_n 38._o ans_fw-fr i_o deny_v the_o syllogism_n it_o be_v no_o better_a than_o this_o one_o smptom_n of_o the_o plague_n be_v a_o fever_n but_o such_o a_o man_n have_v a_o fever_n therefore_o he_o have_v the_o plague_n the_o true_a conclusion_n which_o issue_v out_o of_o these_o premise_n shall_v be_v this_o therefore_o he_o have_v one_o symptom_n of_o the_o plague_n and_o so_o likewise_o in_o the_o former_a therefore_o they_o have_v one_o property_n or_o one_o quality_n of_o schismatic_n and_o as_o in_o the_o former_a instance_n the_o man_n that_o have_v one_o sign_n of_o the_o plague_n may_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o absence_n of_o other_o requisite_n not_o have_v the_o plague_n so_o these_o protestant_n may_v have_v something_o of_o schismatic_n and_o yet_o not_o be_v schismatic_n a_o tyrant_n sentence_v a_o man_n to_o death_n for_o his_o pleasure_n and_o a_o just_a judge_n that_o condemn_v a_o malefactor_n do_v both_o sentence_n a_o man_n to_o death_n and_o so_o for_o the_o matter_n do_v both_o the_o same_o thing_n yet_o the_o one_o do_v wicked_o the_o other_o just_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n because_o the_o one_o have_v cause_n the_o other_o have_v not_o in_o like_a manner_n schismatic_n either_o always_o or_o general_o denounce_v damnation_n to_o they_o from_o who_o they_o separate_v the_o same_o do_v these_o protestant_n &_o yet_o be_v not_o schismatic_n the_o reason_n because_o schismatic_n do_v it_o and_o do_v it_o without_o cause_n and_o protestant_n have_v cause_n for_o what_o they_o do_v the_o impiety_n of_o your_o church_n be_v general_o speak_v damnable_a unless_o where_o they_o be_v excuse_v by_o ignorance_n and_o expiate_v at_o least_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n in_o fine_a though_o perhaps_o it_o may_v be_v true_a that_o all_o schismatic_n do_v so_o yet_o universal_a affirmative_n be_v not_o convert_v and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v not_o by_o any_o good_a logic_n that_o all_o that_o do_v so_o when_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n for_o it_o must_v be_v schismatic_n the_o cause_n in_o this_o matter_n of_o separation_n be_v all_o in_o all_o and_o that_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v you_o never_o think_v of_o but_o if_o these_o rigid_a protestant_n have_v just_a cause_n to_o cut_v off_o your_o church_n from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n how_o can_v the_o mild_a sort_n allow_v hope_n of_o salvation_n to_o the_o member_n of_o this_o church_n ans_fw-fr distinguish_v the_o quality_n of_o the_o person_n censure_v and_o this_o seem_a repugnance_n of_o their_o censure_n will_v vanish_v into_o nothing_o for_o your_o church_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o in_o regard_n of_o those_o in_o who_o either_o negligence_n or_o pride_n or_o worldly_a fear_n or_o hope_n or_o some_o other_o voluntary_a sin_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o ignorance_n which_o i_o fear_n be_v the_o case_n of_o the_o generality_n of_o man_n among_o you_o or_o in_o regard_n of_o those_o who_o owe_v their_o error_n from_o truth_n to_o want_v of_o capacity_n or_o default_n of_o instruction_n either_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o may_v know_v the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o or_o of_o those_o who_o will_v know_v the_o truth_n but_o all_o thing_n consider_v can_v in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o have_v eye_n to_o see_v and_o will_v not_o see_v or_o those_o that_o will_v glad_o see_v but_o want_v eye_n or_o light_n consider_v the_o former_a sort_n of_o man_n which_o your_o more_o rigid_a censure_n seem_v especial_o to_o reflect_v upon_o and_o the_o heavy_a sentence_n will_v not_o be_v too_o heavy_a consider_v the_o latter_a and_o the_o mild_a will_v not_o be_v too_o mild_a so_o that_o here_o be_v no_o difference_n but_o in_o word_n only_o neither_o be_v you_o flatter_v by_o the_o one_o nor_o uncharitable_o censure_v by_o the_o other_o 39_o your_o next_o blow_n be_v direct_v against_o the_o mild_a sort_n of_o protestant_n who_o you_o say_v involve_v themselves_o in_o the_o sin_n of_o schism_n by_o communicate_v with_o those_o as_o you_o call_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n who_o you_o conceive_v yourself_o to_o have_v prove_v schismatic_n and_o now_o load_v they_o further_o with_o the_o crime_n of_o heresy_n for_o say_v you_o if_o you_o hold_v yourselves_o oblige_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n to_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n by_o reason_n of_o her_o error_n which_o yet_o you_o confess_v be_v not_o fundamental_a shall_v it_o not_o be_v much_o more_o damnable_a to_o live_v in_o confraternity_n with_o these_o who_o defend_v a_o error_n of_o the_o fail_n of_o the_o church_n which_o in_o the_o donatist_n you_o confess_v to_o have_v be_v proper_o heretical_a 40._o ans_fw-fr you_o mistake_v in_o think_v that_o protestant_n hold_v themselves_o oblige_v not_o to_o communicate_v with_o you_o only_o or_o principal_o by_o reason_n of_o your_o error_n and_o corruption_n for_o the_o true_a reason_n according_a to_o my_o three_o observation_n be_v not_o so_o much_o because_o you_o maintain_v error_n and_o corruption_n
as_o because_o you_o impose_v they_o and_o will_v allow_v your_o communion_n to_o none_o but_o to_o those_o that_o will_v hold_v they_o with_o you_o and_o have_v so_o order_v your_o communion_n that_o either_o we_o must_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o these_o thing_n or_o nothing_o and_o for_o this_o very_a reason_n though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o these_o protestant_n hold_v this_o doctrine_n which_o you_o impute_v to_o they_o and_o though_o this_o error_n be_v as_o damnable_a and_o as_o much_o against_o the_o creed_n as_o you_o pretend_v yet_o after_o all_o this_o this_o disparity_n between_o you_o and_o they_o may_v make_v it_o more_o lawful_a for_o we_o to_o communicate_v with_o they_o than_o you_o because_o what_o they_o hold_v they_o hold_v to_o themselves_o and_o refuse_v not_o as_o you_o do_v to_o communicate_v with_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o contrary_n 41._o thus_o we_o may_v answer_v your_o argument_n though_o both_o your_o former_a supposition_n be_v grant_v but_o then_o for_o a_o second_o answer_n i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o grant_v either_o of_o they_o for_o neither_o do_v these_o protestant_n hold_v the_o fail_n of_o the_o church_n from_o its_o be_v but_o only_o from_o its_o visibility_n which_o if_o you_o conceive_v all_o one_o then_o must_v you_o conceive_v that_o the_o star_n fail_v every_o day_n and_o the_o sun_n every_o night_n neither_o be_v it_o certain_a that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n fail_v be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o creed_n for_o as_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n depend_v not_o upon_o the_o actual_a remission_n of_o any_o man_n sin_n but_o upon_o god_n readiness_n and_o resolution_n to_o forgive_v the_o sin_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v and_o repent_v so_o that_o although_o unbelief_n or_o impenitence_n shall_v be_v universal_a and_o the_o faithful_a shall_v absolute_o fail_v from_o the_o child_n of_o man_n and_o the_o son_n of_o man_n shall_v find_v no_o faith_n on_o the_o earth_n yet_o shall_v the_o article_n still_o continue_v true_a that_o god_n will_v forgive_v the_o sin_n of_o all_o that_o repent_v in_o like_a manner_n it_o be_v not_o certain_a that_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n depend_v upon_o the_o actual_a existence_n of_o a_o catholic_n church_n but_o rather_o upon_o the_o right_n that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n or_o rather_o to_o speak_v proper_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n have_v to_o be_v universal_o believe_v and_o therefore_o the_o article_n may_v be_v true_a though_o there_o be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o world_n in_o regard_n this_o notwithstanding_o it_o remain_v still_o true_a that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o church_n and_o this_o church_n ought_v to_o be_v catholic_n for_o as_o of_o these_o two_o proposition_n there_o be_v a_o church_n in_o america_n and_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o church_n in_o america_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o latter_a depend_v not_o upon_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o former_a so_o neither_o do_v it_o in_o these_o two_o there_o be_v a_o church_n diffuse_v all_o the_o world_n over_o and_z there_o shall_v be_v a_o church_n diffuse_v all_o the_o world_n over_o 44._o ad_fw-la §_o 17._o the_o next_o section_n in_o three_o long_a leaf_n deliver_v we_o this_o short_a sense_n that_o those_o protestant_n which_o say_n they_o have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n external_a communion_n but_o only_o her_o corruption_n pretend_v to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v impossible_a because_o these_o corruption_n be_v inherent_a in_o the_o church_n external_a communion_n and_o therefore_o he_o that_o forsake_v they_o not_o but_o forsake_v this_o 45._o ans_fw-fr but_o who_o be_v they_o that_o pretend_v they_o forsake_v the_o church_n corruption_n and_o not_o her_o external_a communion_n some_o there_o be_v that_o say_v they_o have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n that_o be_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o leave_v her_o corruption_n some_o that_o they_o have_v not_o leave_v the_o communion_n but_o the_o corruption_n of_o it_o mean_v the_o internal_a communion_n of_o it_o and_o conjunction_n with_o it_o by_o faith_n and_o obedience_n which_o disagree_v from_o the_o former_a only_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v for_o he_o that_o be_v in_o the_o church_n be_v in_o this_o kind_n of_o communion_n with_o it_o and_o he_o that_o be_v not_o in_o this_o internal_a communion_n be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n some_o perhaps_o that_o they_o leave_v not_o your_o external_a communion_n in_o all_o thing_n meaning_n that_o they_o leave_v it_o not_o voluntary_o be_v not_o fugitivi_fw-la but_o fugati_fw-la perron_n casaubon_n in_o ep._n ad_fw-la card._n perron_n as_o be_v willing_a to_o join_v with_o you_o in_o any_o act_n of_o piety_n but_o be_v by_o you_o necessitate_v &_o constrain_v to_o do_v so_o because_o you_o will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o do_v well_o with_o you_o unless_o they_o will_v do_v ill_a with_o you_o now_o to_o do_v ill_o that_o you_o may_v do_v well_o be_v against_o the_o will_n of_o god_n which_o to_o every_o good_a man_n be_v a_o high_a degree_n of_o necessity_n but_o for_o such_o protestant_n as_o pretend_v that_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o forsake_v your_o corruption_n only_o and_o not_o your_o external_a communion_n that_o be_v such_o as_o pretend_v to_o communicate_v with_o you_o in_o your_o confession_n and_o liturgy_n and_o participation_n of_o sacrament_n i_o can_v but_o doubt_v very_o much_o that_o neither_o you_o nor_o i_o have_v ever_o meet_v with_o any_o of_o this_o condition_n and_o if_o perhaps_o you_o be_v lead_v into_o error_n by_o think_v that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o it_o be_v all_o one_o in_o sense_n and_o signification_n i_o hope_v by_o this_o time_n you_o be_v disabused_a and_o begin_v to_o understand_v that_o as_o a_o man_n may_v leave_v any_o fashion_n or_o custom_n of_o a_o college_n and_o yet_o remain_v still_o a_o member_n of_o the_o college_n so_o a_o man_n may_v possible_o leave_v some_o opinion_n or_o practice_n of_o a_o church_n former_o common_a to_o himself_o and_o other_o and_o continue_v still_o a_o member_n of_o that_o church_n provide_v that_o what_o he_o forsake_v be_v not_o one_o of_o those_o thing_n wherein_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o church_n consist_v whereas_o peradventure_o this_o practice_n may_v be_v so_o involve_v with_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o this_o church_n that_o it_o may_v be_v simple_o impossible_a for_o he_o to_o leave_v this_o practice_n and_o not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n external_a communion_n 46._o you_o will_v reply_v perhaps_o that_o the_o difficulty_n lie_v as_o well_o against_o those_o who_o pretend_v to_o forsake_v the_o church_n corruption_n and_o not_o the_o church_n as_o against_o those_o who_o say_v they_o forsake_v the_o church_n corruption_n and_o not_o her_o external_a communion_n and_o that_o the_o reason_n be_v still_o the_o same_o because_o these_o suppose_a corruption_n be_v inherent_a in_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o therefore_o by_o like_a reason_n with_o the_o former_a can_v not_o be_v forsake_v but_o if_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v forsake_v 47._o ans_fw-fr a_o pretty_a sophism_n and_o very_o fit_a to_o persuade_v man_n that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o they_o to_o forsake_v any_o error_n they_o hold_v or_o any_o vice_n they_o be_v subject_a to_o either_o peculiar_a to_o themselves_o or_o in_o common_a with_o other_o because_o forsooth_o they_o can_v forsake_v themselves_o and_o vice_n and_o error_n be_v thing_n inherent_a in_o themselves_o the_o deceit_n lie_v in_o not_o distinguish_v between_o a_o local_a and_o a_o moral_a forsake_v of_o any_o thing_n for_o as_o it_o be_v a_o absurdity_n fit_a for_o the_o maintainer_n of_o transubstantiation_n to_o defend_v that_o a_o man_n may_v local_o and_o proper_o depart_v from_o the_o accident_n of_o a_o subject_n and_o not_o from_o the_o subject_n itself_o so_o be_v it_o also_o against_o reason_n to_o deny_v that_o a_o man_n may_v by_o a_o usual_a phrase_n of_o speech_n forsake_v any_o custom_n or_o quality_n good_a or_o bad_a either_o proper_a to_o himself_o or_o common_a to_o himself_o with_o any_o company_n and_o yet_o never_o true_o or_o proper_o forsake_v either_o his_o company_n or_o himself_o thus_o if_o all_o the_o jesuit_n in_o the_o society_n be_v give_v to_o write_v sophistical_o yet_o you_o may_v leave_v this_o ill_a custom_n and_o yet_o not_o leave_v your_o society_n if_o all_o the_o citizen_n of_o a_o city_n be_v addict_v to_o any_o vanity_n they_o may_v either_o all_o or_o some_o of_o they_o forsake_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o forsake_v the_o city_n if_o all_o the_o part_n of_o a_o man_n body_n be_v dirty_a or_o filthy_a nothing_o hinder_v but_o that_o all_o or_o some_o of_o they_o may_v
the_o doctrine_n embrace_v by_o he_o consonant_n to_o it_o at_o least_o this_o he_o may_v know_v that_o the_o doctrine_n which_o he_o have_v choose_v to_o he_o seem_v true_a and_o the_o contrary_n which_o he_o have_v forsake_v seem_v false_a and_o therefore_o without_o remorse_n of_o conscience_n he_o may_v profess_v that_o but_o this_o he_o can_v 64._o obj._n but_o we_o be_v to_o remember_v that_o according_a to_o doctor_n potter_n the_o visible_a church_n have_v a_o blessing_n not_o to_o err_v in_o fundamental_o in_o which_o any_o private_a reformer_n may_v fail_v therefore_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o forsake_v the_o church_n out_o of_o who_o communion_n they_o be_v expose_v to_o danger_n of_o fall_v into_o many_o more_o and_o even_o into_o damnable_a error_n answ_n the_o visible_a church_n be_v free_a indeed_o from_o all_o error_n absolute_o destructive_a and_o unpardonable_a but_o not_o from_o all_o error_n which_o in_o itself_o be_v damnable_a not_o from_o all_o which_o will_v actual_o bring_v damnation_n upon_o they_o that_o keep_v themselves_o in_o they_o by_o their_o own_o voluntary_a and_o avoidable_a fault_n beside_o any_o private_a man_n who_o true_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o serious_o endeavour_v to_o know_v the_o will_n of_o god_n and_o to_o do_v it_o be_v as_o secure_a as_o the_o visible_a church_n more_o secure_a than_o your_o church_n from_o the_o danger_n of_o err_v in_o fundamental_o for_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o any_o man_n so_o qualify_v shall_v fall_v into_o any_o error_n which_o to_o he_o will_v prove_v damnable_a for_o god_n require_v no_o more_o of_o any_o man_n to_o his_o salvation_n but_o his_o true_a endeavour_n to_o be_v save_v last_o abide_v in_o your_o church_n communion_n be_v so_o far_o from_o secure_v i_o or_o any_o man_n from_o damnable_a error_n that_o if_o i_o shall_v abide_v in_o it_o i_o be_o certain_a i_o can_v not_o be_v save_v for_o abide_v in_o it_o i_o can_v without_o profess_v to_o believe_v your_o entire_a doctrine_n true_a profess_v this_o i_o can_v but_o i_o must_v lie_v perpetual_o and_o exulcerate_v my_o conscience_n and_o though_o your_o error_n be_v not_o in_o themselves_o damnable_a yet_o to_o resist_v the_o know_a truth_n and_o to_o continue_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o know_a error_n be_v not_o in_o themselves_o damnable_a yet_o to_o resist_v the_o know_a truth_n and_o to_o continue_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o know_a error_n and_o falsehood_n be_v certain_o a_o capital_a sin_n and_o of_o great_a affinity_n with_o the_o sin_n which_o shall_v never_o be_v forgive_v 65._o obj._n but_o neither_o be_v the_o protestant_a church_n free_a from_o corruption_n and_o error_n and_o what_o man_n of_o judgement_n will_v be_v a_o protestant_n since_o that_o church_n be_v confess_o a_o corrupt_a one_o answ_n and_o yet_o you_o yourself_o make_v large_a discourse_n in_o this_o very_a chapter_n to_o persuade_v protestant_n to_o continue_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n though_o suppose_v to_o have_v some_o corruption_n and_o why_o i_o pray_v may_v not_o a_o man_n of_o judgement_n continue_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o a_o church_n confess_o corrupt_v as_o well_o as_o in_o a_o church_n suppose_v to_o be_v corrupt_v especial_o when_o this_o church_n suppose_v to_o be_v corrupt_v require_v the_o belief_n and_o profession_n of_o her_o suppose_a corruption_n as_o the_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n which_o this_o church_n confess_o corrupt_v do_v not_o what_o man_n of_o judgement_n will_v think_v it_o any_o disparagement_n to_o his_o judgement_n to_o prefer_v the_o better_a though_o not_o simple_o the_o best_a before_o that_o which_o be_v stark_o naught_o to_o prefer_v indifferrent_fw-la good_a health_n before_o a_o disease_a and_o corrupt_a state_n of_o body_n to_o prefer_v a_o field_n not_o perfect_o weed_v before_o a_o field_n that_o be_v quite_o overrun_v with_o weed_n and_o thorn_n and_o therefore_o though_o protestant_n have_v some_o error_n yet_o see_v they_o be_v neither_o so_o great_a as_o you_o nor_o impose_v with_o such_o tyranny_n nor_o maintain_v with_o such_o obstinacy_n he_o that_o conceive_v it_o any_o disparagement_n to_o his_o judgement_n to_o change_v your_o communion_n for_o they_o though_o confess_v to_o have_v some_o corruption_n it_o may_v well_o be_v presume_v that_o he_o have_v but_o little_a judgement_n 66._o ad_fw-la §_o 22._o obj._n but_o protestant_n say_v it_o be_v comfort_n enough_o for_o the_o church_n to_o be_v secure_v from_o all_o capital_a danger_n which_o can_v only_o arise_v from_o error_n in_o fundamental_a point_n and_o not_o hope_v to_o triumph_n over_o all_o sin_n and_o error_n till_o she_o be_v in_o heaven_n why_o therefore_o be_v not_o the_o first_o reformer_n content_a with_o enough_o but_o will_v dismember_v the_o church_n out_o of_o greediness_n of_o more_o than_o enough_o answ_n i_o have_v already_o show_v sufficient_o how_o capital_a danger_n may_v arise_v from_o error_n though_o not_o fundamental_a i_o add_v now_o that_o what_o may_v be_v enough_o for_o man_n in_o ignorance_n may_v be_v to_o know_v man_n not_o enough_o according_a to_o that_o of_o the_o gospel_n to_o who_o much_o be_v give_v of_o he_o much_o shall_v be_v require_v that_o the_o same_o error_n may_v be_v not_o capital_a to_o those_o who_o want_v mean_n of_o find_v the_o truth_n and_o capital_a to_o other_o who_o have_v mean_n and_o neglect_v to_o use_v they_o that_o to_o continue_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o error_n discover_v to_o be_v so_o may_v be_v damnable_a though_o the_o error_n be_v not_o so_o these_o i_o presume_v be_v reason_n enough_o and_o enough_o why_o the_o first_o reformer_n may_v think_v and_o just_o that_o not_o enough_o for_o themselves_o which_o yet_o to_o some_o of_o their_o predecessor_n they_o hope_v may_v be_v enough_o this_o very_a argument_n be_v object_v to_o sumus_fw-la to_o s._n cyprian_n ep._n 63._o in_o these_o word_n siquis_fw-la de_fw-la antecessoribus_fw-la nostris_fw-la vel_fw-la ignerant_a vel_fw-la simplÃciter_n non_fw-la hoc_fw-la observavit_fw-la &_o tenuit_fw-la quod_fw-la nos_fw-la dominus_fw-la facere_fw-la exemplo_fw-la &_o magisterio_fw-la svo_fw-la docuit_fw-la potest_fw-la simplicitati_fw-la ejus_fw-la de_fw-la indulgentia_fw-la domini_fw-la venia_fw-la concedi_fw-la nobis_fw-la verò_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la ignosci_fw-la qui_fw-la nunc_fw-la à _fw-la domino_fw-la admoniti_fw-la &_o instructi_fw-la sumus_fw-la s._n cyprian_n upon_o another_o occasion_n and_o also_o by_o the_o peccatis_fw-la the_o wilfridus_n to_o abbot_n colman_n allege_v that_o he_o follow_v the_o example_n of_o his_o predecessor_n famous_a for_o holiness_n and_o famous_a for_o miracle_n in_o these_o word_n de_fw-fr patre_fw-la vestro_fw-la columba_n &_o sequacibus_fw-la ejus_fw-la quorum_fw-la santitatem_fw-la vos_fw-la imitari_fw-la &_o regulam_fw-la ac_fw-la praecepta_fw-la coelestibus_fw-la signis_fw-la confirmata_fw-la sequi_fw-la perhibetis_fw-la possum_fw-la respondere_fw-la quia_fw-la multis_fw-la in_o judicio_fw-la dicentibus_fw-la domino_fw-la quòd_fw-la in_o nomine_fw-la ejus_fw-la prophetaverint_fw-la &_o daemonia_fw-la ejecerint_fw-la &_o virtutes_fw-la multas_fw-la fecerint_fw-la responsurus_fw-la sit_fw-la dominus_fw-la quia_fw-la nunquam_fw-la eos_fw-la noverit_fw-la sed_fw-la absit_fw-la ut_fw-la de_fw-la patribus_fw-la vestris_fw-la hoc_fw-la dicam_fw-la quia_fw-la justius_fw-la multo_fw-la est_fw-la de_fw-la incognitis_fw-la bonum_fw-la credere_fw-la quam_fw-la malum_fw-la vnde_fw-la &_o illos_fw-la dei_fw-la famulos_fw-la &_o deo_fw-la dilectos_fw-la esse_fw-la non_fw-la nego_fw-la qui_fw-la simplicitate_fw-la ructicâ_fw-la sed_fw-la intention_n piâ_fw-la deum_fw-la dilexerunt_fw-la neque_fw-la illis_fw-la multum_fw-la obesse_fw-la paschae_fw-la talem_fw-la reor_fw-la obseruantiam_fw-la quandiu_fw-la nullus_fw-la advenerat_fw-la qui_fw-la eye_n instituti_fw-la perfectioris_fw-la decreta_fw-la quae_fw-la sequerentur_fw-la ostenderet_fw-la quos_fw-la utique_fw-la credo_fw-la si_fw-la qui_fw-la tunc_fw-la ad_fw-la eos_fw-la catholicus_n calculator_n adveniret_fw-la sic_fw-la ejus_fw-la monita_fw-la fuisse_fw-la secuturos_fw-la quomodo_fw-la ea_fw-la quae_fw-la noverant_fw-la ac_fw-la didicerunt_fw-la dei_fw-la mandata_fw-la probantur_fw-la fuisse_fw-la secuti_fw-la tu_fw-la autem_fw-la &_o socii_fw-la tui_fw-la si_fw-la audita_fw-la decreta_fw-la sedis_fw-la apostolicae_fw-la imo_fw-la universalis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la &_o haec_fw-la literis_fw-la sacris_fw-la confirmata_fw-la contemnitis_fw-la absque_fw-la ulla_fw-la dubietate_fw-la peccatis_fw-la british_a quartodeciman_n to_o the_o maintainer_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n and_o 25._o and_o beda_n lib._n 3._o eccl._n hist_o c._n 25._o by_o both_o this_o very_a answer_n be_v return_v and_o therefore_o i_o can_v but_o hope_v that_o for_o their_o sake_n you_o will_v approve_v it_o 67._o obj._n but_o if_o no_o church_n may_v hope_v to_o triumph_n over_o error_n till_o she_o be_v in_o heaven_n than_o we_o must_v either_o grant_v that_o error_n not_o fundamental_a can_v yield_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o forsake_v the_o church_n or_o affirm_v that_o all_o community_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v forsake_v answ_n we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o no_o church_n may_v hope_v to_o be_v free_a from_o all_o error_n either_o pernicious_a
the_o only_a fountain_n of_o all_o these_o mischief_n be_v indeed_o no_o other_o than_o your_o pour_v out_o a_o flood_n of_o persecution_n against_o protestant_n only_o because_o they_o will_v not_o sin_v &_o be_v damn_v with_o you_o for_o company_n unless_o we_o may_v add_v the_o impatience_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o not_o endure_v to_o be_v tear_v in_o piece_n like_o sheep_n by_o a_o company_n of_o wolf_n without_o resistance_n choose_v rather_o to_o die_v like_o soldier_n than_o martyr_n 96._o obj._n butthey_a endeavour_v to_o force_v the_o society_n whereof_o they_o be_v part_n to_o be_v heal_v and_o reform_v as_o they_o be_v and_o if_o it_o refuse_v they_o do_v when_o they_o have_v power_n drive_v they_o away_o even_o their_o superior_n both_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a as_o be_v notorious_a the_o proof_n hereof_o be_v want_v and_o therefore_o i_o may_v defer_v my_o answer_n until_o they_o be_v produce_v yet_o take_v this_o beforehand_o if_o they_o do_v so_o then_o herein_o in_o my_o opinion_n they_o do_v amiss_o for_o i_o have_v learn_v from_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o church_n that_o nothing_o be_v more_o against_o religion_n than_o to_o force_v religion_n and_o of_o s._n paul_n the_o weapon_n of_o the_o christian_a warfare_n be_v not_o carnal_a and_o great_a reason_n for_o humane_a violence_n may_v make_v man_n counterfeit_v but_o can_v make_v they_o believe_v and_o be_v therefore_o fit_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o breed_v form_n without_o and_o atheism_n within_o beside_o if_o this_o mean_n of_o bring_v man_n to_o embrace_v any_o religion_n be_v general_o use_v as_o if_o it_o may_v be_v just_o use_v in_o any_o place_n by_o those_o that_o have_v power_n and_o think_v they_o have_v truth_n certain_o they_o can_v with_o reason_n deny_v but_o that_o it_o may_v be_v use_v in_o every_o place_n by_o those_o that_o have_v poweâ—_n as_o well_o as_o they_o and_o think_v they_o have_v truth_n as_o well_o as_o they_o what_o can_v follow_v but_o the_o maintenance_n perhaps_o of_o truth_n but_o perhaps_o only_o of_o the_o profession_n of_o it_o in_o one_o place_n and_o the_o oppression_n of_o it_o in_o a_o hundred_o what_o will_v follow_v from_o it_o but_o the_o preservation_n peradventure_o of_o unity_n but_o peradventure_o only_o of_o uniformity_n in_o particular_a state_n and_o church_n but_o the_o immortallize_a the_o great_a and_o more_o lamentable_a division_n of_o christendom_n and_o the_o world_n and_o therefore_o what_o can_v follow_v from_o it_o but_o perhaps_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o carnal_a policy_n the_o temporal_a benefit_n and_o tranquillity_n of_o temporal_a state_n and_o kingdom_n but_o the_o infinite_a prejudice_n if_o not_o the_o desolation_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o it_o well_o become_v they_o who_o have_v their_o portion_n in_o this_o life_n who_o serve_v no_o high_a state_n than_o that_o of_o england_n or_o spain_n or_o france_n nor_o this_o neither_o any_o further_a than_o they_o may_v serve_v themselves_o by_o it_o who_o think_v of_o no_o other_o happiness_n but_o the_o preservation_n of_o their_o own_o fortune_n and_o tranquillity_n in_o this_o world_n who_o think_v of_o no_o other_o mean_n to_o preserve_v state_n but_o humane_a power_n and_o machiavillian_a policy_n and_o believe_v no_o other_o creed_n but_o this_o regi_fw-la aut_fw-la civitati_fw-la imperium_fw-la habenti_fw-la nihil_fw-la injustum_fw-la quod_fw-la utile_fw-la that_o to_o a_o king_n or_o city_n that_o have_v rule_v power_n nothing_o that_o be_v profitable_a be_v unjust_a such_o man_n as_o these_o it_o may_v become_v to_o maintain_v by_o worldly_a power_n and_o violence_n their_o state-instrument_n religion_n for_o if_o all_o be_v vain_a and_o false_a as_o in_o their_o judgement_n it_o be_v the_o present_a whatsoever_o be_v better_a than_o any_o because_o it_o be_v already_o settle_a and_o alteration_n of_o it_o may_v draw_v with_o it_o change_v of_o state_n and_o the_o change_n of_o state_n the_o subversion_n of_o their_o fortune_n but_o they_o that_o be_v indeed_o servant_n and_o lover_n of_o christ_n of_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o mankind_n aught_o with_o all_o courage_n to_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o it_o as_o a_o common_a enemy_n of_o all_o these_o they_o that_o know_v there_o be_v a_o king_n of_o king_n and_o lord_n of_o lord_n by_o who_o will_n and_o pleasure_n king_n and_o kingdom_n stand_v and_o fall_v they_o know_v that_o to_o no_o king_n or_o state_n any_o thing_n can_v be_v profitable_a which_o be_v unjust_a and_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_o unjust_a than_o to_o force_v weak_a man_n by_o the_o profession_n of_o a_o religion_n which_o they_o believe_v not_o to_o lose_v their_o own_o eternal_a happiness_n out_o of_o a_o vain_a and_o needless_a fear_n lest_o they_o may_v possible_o disturb_v their_o temporal_a quietness_n there_o be_v no_o danger_n to_o any_o state_n from_o any_o man_n opinion_n unless_o it_o be_v such_o 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one_o chair_n unity_n be_v to_o be_v keep_v by_o all_o lest_o the_o other_o apostle_n may_v attribute_v to_o themselves_o each_o one_o his_o particular_a chair_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v be_v a_o schismatic_a and_o sinner_n who_o against_o that_o one_o single_a chair_n shall_v erect_v another_o all_o this_o be_v impertinent_a if_o it_o be_v well_o look_v into_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o donatist_n have_v set_v up_o at_o rome_n a_o bishop_n of_o their_o faction_n not_o with_o intent_n to_o make_v he_o bishop_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o of_o that_o church_n in_o particular_a now_o optatus_n go_v upon_o s._n cyprian_n ground_n of_o one_o bishop_n in_o one_o church_n prove_v they_o schismatic_a for_o so_o do_v by_o this_o argument_n s._n peter_n be_v first_o bishop_n of_o rome_n neither_o do_v the_o apostle_n attribute_v to_o themselves_o each_o one_o his_o particular_a chair_n viz._n in_o that_o city_n for_o in_o other_o places_z
condition_n with_o we_o and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o we_o be_v certain_a of_o a_o obscure_a thing_n as_o well_o as_o you_o 51._o but_o then_o beside_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o be_v here_o every_o where_o extreme_o if_o not_o affect_o mistake_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o protestant_n who_o though_o they_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o thing_n which_o they_o believe_v be_v in_o themselves_o as_o certain_a as_o any_o demonstrable_a or_o sensible_a verity_n yet_o pretend_v not_o that_o their_o certainty_n of_o adherence_n be_v most_o perfect_a and_o absolute_a but_o such_o as_o may_v be_v perfect_v and_o increase_v as_o long_o as_o they_o walk_v by_o faith_n and_o not_o by_o sight_n and_o consonant_n hereunto_o be_v their_o doctrine_n touch_v the_o evidence_n of_o the_o object_n whereunto_o they_o adhere_v for_o you_o abuse_v the_o world_n and_o they_o if_o you_o pretend_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o first_o of_o your_o two_o principle_n that_o these_o particular_a book_n be_v 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because_o they_o will_v not_o have_v that_o to_o be_v have_v and_o embrace_v for_o truth_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o their_o wilful_a desire_n it_o be_v a_o hard_a matter_n for_o they_o to_o relinquish_v their_o honour_n and_o set_v at_o naught_o other_o commodity_n which_o thing_n they_o know_v they_o ought_v to_o do_v if_o they_o admit_v of_o christ_n doctrine_n and_o obey_v what_o he_o have_v command_v and_o this_o be_v the_o rather_o to_o be_v note_v of_o they_o for_o that_o many_o other_o historical_a narration_n be_v approve_v by_o they_o to_o be_v true_a which_o notwithstanding_o be_v only_o manifest_a by_o authority_n and_o not_o by_o any_o such_o strong_a proof_n and_o persuasion_n or_o token_n as_o do_v declare_v the_o history_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v true_a which_o be_v evident_a partly_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o those_o jew_n that_o be_v yet_o alive_a and_o partly_o in_o those_o company_n and_o congregation_n of_o christian_n which_o be_v any_o where_n to_o be_v find_v whereof_o doubtless_o there_o be_v some_o cause_n last_o see_v the_o long_a duration_n or_o continuance_n of_o christian_a religion_n and_o the_o large_a extent_n thereof_o can_v be_v ascribe_v to_o no_o human_a power_n therefore_o the_o same_o must_v be_v attribute_v to_o miracle_n or_o if_o any_o deny_v that_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v through_o a_o miraculous_a manner_n this_o very_a get_v so_o great_a strength_n and_o power_n without_o a_o miracle_n may_v be_v think_v to_o surpass_v any_o miracle_n 52._o and_o now_o you_o see_v i_o hope_v that_o protestant_n neither_o do_v nor_o need_v to_o pretend_v to_o any_o such_o evidence_n in_o the_o doctrine_n they_o believe_v as_o can_v well_o consist_v both_o with_o the_o essence_n and_o the_o obedience_n of_o faith_n let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o last_o nullity_n which_o you_o impute_v to_o the_o faith_n of_o protestant_n and_o that_o it_o be_v want_v of_o prudence_n touch_v which_o point_n as_o i_o have_v already_o demonstrate_v that_o wisdom_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o faith_n but_o that_o a_o man_n may_v true_o believe_v truth_n though_o upon_o insufficient_a motive_n so_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o i_o shall_v make_v good_a that_o if_o prudence_n be_v necessary_a to_o faith_n we_o have_v better_a title_n to_o it_o than_o you_o and_o that_o if_o a_o wise_a than_o solomon_n be_v here_o he_o shall_v have_v better_a reason_n to_o believe_v the_o religion_n of_o protestant_n than_o papist_n the_o bible_n rather_o than_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v 53._o ad_fw-la §_o 31._o you_o demand_v then_o first_o of_o all_o what_o wisdom_n be_v it_o to_o forsake_v a_o church_n confess_o very_a ancient_n and_o beside_o which_o there_o can_v be_v demonstrate_v no_o other_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n upon_o earth_n i_o answer_v against_o god_n and_o truth_n there_o lie_v no_o prescription_n and_o therefore_o certain_o it_o may_v be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v ancient_a error_n for_o more_o ancient_a truth_n one_o god_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v follow_v than_o innumerable_a world_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o it_o may_v be_v great_a wisdom_n either_o for_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n nay_o for_o all_o the_o man_n in_o the_o world_n have_v wander_v from_o the_o way_n of_o truth_n to_o return_v unto_o it_o or_o for_o a_o part_n of_o it_o nay_o for_o one_o man_n to_o do_v so_o although_o all_o the_o world_n beside_o be_v mad_o resolute_a to_o do_v the_o contrary_n it_o may_v be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v the_o error_n though_o of_o the_o only_a visible_a church_n much_o more_o the_o roman_a which_o in_o conceive_v herself_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n do_v somewhat_o like_o the_o frog_n in_o the_o fable_n which_o think_v the_o ditch_n he_o live_v in_o to_o be_v all_o the_o world_n 54._o you_o demand_v again_o
be_v easy_a to_o know_v the_o scripture_n and_o its_o sense_n than_o for_o the_o ignorant_a in_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o be_v the_o church_n and_o what_o be_v her_o decree_n and_o the_o sense_n of_o they_o c._n 2.107_o 108_o 109._o in_o what_o language_n the_o scripture_n be_v incorrupt_v and_o the_o assurance_n of_o it_o c._n 2.55_o 56_o 57_o the_o scripture_n be_v capable_a of_o the_o property_n of_o a_o perfect_a rule_n c._n 2.7_o in_o what_o sense_n we_o say_v the_o scripture_n be_v a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n c._n 2.8_o the_o scripture_n not_o proper_o a_o judge_n of_o controversy_n but_o a_o rule_n to_o judge_v by_o c._n 2.11_o 104_o 155._o the_o scripture_n incorruption_n more_o secure_v by_o providence_n than_o the_o roman_a church_n vigilancy_n c._n 2.24_o when_o scripture_n be_v make_v the_o rule_n of_o controversy_n those_o that_o concern_v itself_o be_v to_o be_v except_v c._n 2.8_o 27_o 156._o the_o scripture_n contain_v all_o necessary_a material_a object_n of_o faith_n of_o which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o be_v none_o but_o the_o mean_n of_o convey_v they_o to_o we_o c._n 2.32.159_o the_o scripture_n must_v determine_v some_o controversy_n else_o those_o about_o the_o church_n and_o its_o note_n be_v undeterminable_a c._n 2.3_o the_o scripture_n unjust_o charge_v with_o increase_a controversy_n and_o contention_n c._n 2.4_o the_o scripture_n be_v a_o sufficient_a mean_n for_o discover_v heresy_n c._n 2.127_o when_o controversy_n be_v refer_v to_o scripture_n it_o be_v not_o refer_v they_o to_o the_o private_a spirit_n understand_v it_o of_o a_o persuasion_n pretend_v to_o come_v from_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n c._n 2.110_o protestant_n that_o believe_v scripture_n agree_v in_o more_o thing_n than_o they_o differ_v in_o and_o their_o difference_n be_v not_o material_a c._n 4.49_o 50._o private_a man_n if_o they_o interpret_v scripture_n amiss_o and_o to_o ill_a purpose_n endanger_v only_o themselves_o when_o they_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o prescribe_v to_o other_o c._n 2.122_o the_o protestant_n security_n of_o the_o way_n to_o happiness_n c._n 2.53_o want_v of_o skill_n in_o school-divinity_n foolish_o object_v against_o english_a divine_n pref._n 19_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n separate_n from_o rome_n will_v not_o serve_v to_o justify_v schismatic_n c._n 5.71_o 74_o 80_o 81_o 82_o 85_o 86._o socinianism_n and_o other_o heresy_n countenance_v by_o romish_a writer_n who_o have_v undermine_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n pref._n 17.18_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n lead_v into_o all_o truth_n prove_v not_o infallibility_n c._n 3.71_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n abide_v with_o they_o for_o ever_o may_v be_v personal_a c._n 3.74_o and_o it_o be_v a_o conditional_a promise_n cut_v off_o the_o roman_a church_n pretence_n to_o infallibility_n c._n 3.75_o want_v of_o succession_n of_o bishop_n hold_v always_o the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v not_o a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n c._n 6.38_o 41._o in_o what_o sense_n succession_n be_v by_o the_o father_n make_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n c._n 6.40_o papist_n can_v prove_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o professor_n of_o their_o doctrine_n c._n 6.41_o t._n tradition_n prove_v the_o book_n of_o scripture_n to_o be_v canonical_a not_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n c._n 2.25_o 53_o 90_o 91_o 92._o &_o c._n 3.27_o traditional_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n how_o ill_o preserve_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 2.10_o &_o c._n 3.46_o no_o traditional_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n though_o if_o there_o be_v any_o remain_v we_o be_v ready_a to_o receive_v they_o c._n 2.88_o 89_o &_o c._n 3.46_o the_o tradition_n distinct_a from_o scripture_n which_o iraeneus_n mention_n do_v not_o favour_v popery_n c._n 2.144_o 145_o 146._o the_o assert_v unwritten_a tradition_n though_o not_o inconsistent_a with_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n yet_o disparage_v it_o as_o a_o perfect_a rule_n c._n 2.10_o though_o our_o translation_n of_o the_o bible_n be_v subject_a to_o error_n yet_o our_o salvation_n be_v not_o thereby_o make_v uncertain_a c._n 2.68_o 73._o different_a translation_n of_o scripture_n may_v as_o well_o be_v object_v to_o the_o ancient_a church_n as_o to_o protestant_n c._n 2.58_o 59_o the_o vulgar_a translation_n be_v not_o pure_a and_o uncorrupted_a c._n 2.75_o 76_o 77_o 78_o 79_o 80._o to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n how_o many_o contradiction_n one_o must_v believe_v c._n 4.46_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n undermine_v by_o roman_a doctor_n pref._n 17_o 18._o the_o church_n may_v tolerate_v many_o thing_n which_o she_o do_v not_o allow_v c._n 3.47_o god_n truth_n not_o question_v by_o protestant_n though_o they_o deny_v point_n profess_v by_o the_o church_n c._n 1.12_o protestant_n question_v not_o god_n truth_n though_o deny_v some_o truth_n reveal_v by_o he_o if_o they_o know_v it_o not_o to_o be_v so_o reveal_v c._n 3.16_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o present_a church_n depend_v not_o upon_o the_o visibility_n or_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n c._n 5.21_o &_o c._n 7.20_o the_o apostle_n deposit_v truth_n with_o the_o church_n be_v no_o argument_n that_o she_o shall_v always_o keep_v it_o entire_a and_o sincere_a c._n 2.148_o the_o promise_n of_o be_v lead_v into_o all_o truth_n agree_v not_o equal_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o to_o the_o church_n c._n 3.34_o a_o trial_n of_o religion_n by_o scripture_n may_v well_o be_v refuse_v by_o papist_n c._n 2_o 3._o u._n violence_n and_o force_n to_o introduce_v religion_n be_v against_o the_o nature_n of_o religion_n and_o unjust_o charge_v upon_o protestant_n c._n 5.96_o what_o visible_a church_n be_v before_o luther_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a ans_fw-fr pref._n 19_o &_o c._n 5.27_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o visible_a unerring_a church_n of_o one_o denomination_n be_v not_o necessary_a c._n 5.27_o the_o visible_a church_n may_v not_o cease_v though_o it_o may_v cease_v to_o be_v visible_a c._n 5.13_o 14_o 41._o the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v visible_a in_o the_o popish_a sense_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o dissemble_v but_o profess_v her_o faith_n c._n 5.18_o the_o great_a uncertainty_n salvation_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n depend_v on_o c._n 2.63_o to_o 73._o inclusive_a their_o uncertainty_n of_o the_o right_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n c._n 2.63_o to_o 68_o inclusive_a the_o church_n unity_n by_o what_o mean_v best_a preserve_v c._n 3.81_o c._n 4.13_o 17_o 40._o pretence_n of_o infallibility_n a_o ridiculous_a mean_n to_o unity_n when_o that_o be_v the_o chief_a question_n to_o be_v determine_v c._n 3.89_o unity_n of_o communion_n how_o to_o be_v obtain_v c._n 4.39_o 40._o unity_n of_o external_a communion_n not_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n c._n 5.9_o universality_n of_o a_o doctrine_n no_o certain_a sign_n that_o it_o come_v from_o the_o apostle_n c._n 3.44_o want_v of_o universality_n of_o place_n prove_v not_o protestant_n to_o be_v heretic_n and_o may_v as_o well_o be_v object_v against_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 6.42_o 55._o we_o will_v receive_v unwritten_a tradition_n derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n if_o we_o know_v what_o they_o be_v c._n 3.46_o the_o vulgar_a translation_n not_o pure_a and_o incorrupted_a c._n 2.75_o 76_o 77_o 78_o 79_o 80._o w._n the_o whole_a doctrine_n of_o christ_n be_v teach_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o a_o anathema_n denounce_v against_o any_o that_o shall_v bring_v in_o new_a doctrine_n c._n 4.18_o the_o wisdom_n of_o protestant_n justify_v in_o forsake_v the_o error_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 6.53_o 54._o the_o wisdom_n of_o protestant_n show_v at_o large_a against_o the_o papist_n in_o make_v the_o bible_n their_o religion_n c._n 6._o from_o 56._o to_o 72._o inclusive_a finis_fw-la additional_a discourse_n of_o mr._n chillingworth_n never_o before_o print_v imprimatur_fw-la exit_fw-la aedib_n lambeth_n jun._n 14._o 1686._o guilford_n needham_n rr._n in_o christo_n p._n ac_fw-la d._n d._n wilhelmo_n archiep._n cant._n à _fw-la sacr._n domesticis_fw-la london_n print_v for_o richard_n chiswell_n at_o the_o rose_n and_o crown_n in_o s._n paul_n churchyard_n 1687._o content_n i._o a_o conference_n betwixt_o mr._n chillingworth_n and_o mr._n lewgar_o whether_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o catholick-church_n and_o all_o out_o of_o her_o communion_n heretic_n or_o schismatic_n p._n 1._o ii_o a_o discourse_n against_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o a_o answer_n to_o all_o those_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o be_v allege_v to_o prove_v it_o p._n 26._o iii_o a_o conference_n concern_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n prove_v that_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n either_o err_v in_o she_o worship_v the_o bless_a virgin_n or_o that_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v err_v in_o condemn_v the_o collyridians_n as_o heretic_n p._n 41._o iv_o a_o
exception_n against_o a_o physician_n that_o himself_o be_v sometime_o in_o and_o recover_v himself_o from_o that_o disease_n which_o he_o undertake_v to_o cure_v or_o against_o a_o guide_n in_o a_o way_n that_o at_o first_o before_o he_o have_v experience_n himself_o mistake_v it_o and_o afterward_o find_v his_o error_n and_o amend_v it_o that_o noble_a writer_n michael_n de_fw-fr montai'gne_n be_v sure_o of_o a_o far_o different_a mind_n for_o he_o will_v hardly_o allow_v any_o physician_n competent_a but_o only_o for_o such_o disease_n as_o himself_o have_v pass_v through_o and_o a_o far_o great_a than_o montai'gne_n even_o he_o that_o say_v tu_fw-la conversus_fw-la confirma_fw-la fratres_fw-la when_o thou_o be_v convert_v strengthen_v by_o brethren_n give_v we_o sufficient_o to_o understand_v that_o they_o which_o have_v themselves_o be_v in_o such_o a_o state_n as_o to_o need_v conversion_n be_v not_o thereby_o make_v incapable_a of_o but_o rather_o engage_v and_o oblige_v unto_o and_o qualify_v for_o this_o charitable_a function_n 41._o the_o motive_n then_o hitherto_o not_o answer_v be_v these_o 42._o i._o because_o perpetual_a visible_a profession_n which_o can_v never_o be_v want_v to_o the_o religion_n of_o christ_n nor_o any_o part_n of_o it_o be_v apparent_o want_v to_o protestant_a religion_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v the_o point_n in_o contestation_n ii_o because_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n separate_v also_o from_o all_o church_n pure_a or_o impure_a true_a or_o false_a then_o be_v in_o the_o world_n upon_o which_o ground_n i_o conclude_v that_o either_o god_n promise_n do_v fail_v of_o performance_n if_o there_o be_v then_o no_o church_n in_o the_o world_n which_o hold_v all_o thing_n necessary_a and_o nothing_o repugnant_a to_o salvation_n or_o else_o that_o luther_n and_o his_o sectary_n separate_v from_o all_o church_n then_o in_o the_o world_n and_o so_o from_o the_o true_a if_o there_o be_v any_o true_a be_v damnable_a schismatic_n iii_o because_o if_o any_o credit_n may_v be_v give_v to_o as_o credible_a record_n as_o any_o be_v extant_a the_o doctrine_n of_o catholic_n have_v be_v frequent_o confirm_v and_o the_o opposite_a doctrine_n of_o protestant_n confound_v with_o supernatural_a and_o divine_a miracle_n iv_o because_o many_o point_n of_o protestant_a doctrine_n be_v the_o damn_a opinion_n of_o heretic_n condemn_v by_o the_o primitive_a church_n v._o because_o the_o prophecy_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n touch_v the_o couversion_n of_o king_n and_o nation_n to_o the_o true_a religion_n of_o christ_n have_v be_v accomplish_v in_o and_o by_o the_o catholic_n roman_n religion_n and_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o and_o not_o by_o protestant_a religion_n and_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o vi_o because_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v conformable_a and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o protestant_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n even_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o protestant_n themselves_o i_o mean_v those_o father_n who_o live_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o first_o 600._o year_n to_o who_o protestant_n themselves_o do_v very_o frequent_o and_o very_o confident_o appeal_v vii_o because_o the_o first_o pretend_v reformer_n have_v neither_o extraordinary_a commission_n from_o god_n nor_o ordinary_a mission_n from_o the_o church_n to_o preach_v protestant_a doctrine_n viii_o because_o luther_n to_o preach_v against_o the_o mass_n which_o contain_v the_o most_o material_a point_n now_o in_o controversy_n be_v persuade_v by_o reason_n suggest_v to_o he_o by_o the_o devil_n himself_o dispute_v with_o he_o so_o himself_o profess_v in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr missa_fw-la privata_fw-la that_o all_o man_n may_v take_v heed_n of_o follow_v he_o who_o profess_v himself_o to_o follow_v the_o devil_n ix_o because_o the_o protestant_a cause_n be_v now_o and_o have_v be_v from_o the_o beginning_n maintain_v with_o gross_a falsification_n and_o calumny_n whereof_o their_o prime_a controversy_n writer_n be_v notorious_o and_o in_o high_a degree_n guilty_a x._o because_o by_o deny_v all_o humane_a authority_n either_o of_o pope_n or_o council_n or_o church_n to_o determine_v controversy_n of_o faith_n they_o have_v abolish_v all_o possible_a mean_n of_o suppress_v heresy_n or_o restore_v unity_n to_o the_o church_n these_o be_v the_o motive_n now_o my_o answer_n to_o they_o follow_v brief_o and_o in_o order_n 43._o to_o the_o first_o god_n have_v neither_o drecree_v nor_o foretell_v that_o his_o true_a doctrine_n shall_v the_o facto_fw-la be_v always_o visible_o profess_v without_o any_o mixture_n of_o falsehood_n to_o the_o second_o god_n have_v neither_o decree_v nor_o foretell_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o visible_a company_n of_o man_n free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o itself_o damnable_a neither_o be_v it_o always_o of_o necessity_n schismatical_a to_o separate_v from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n though_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a for_o if_o this_o church_n suppose_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a require_v i_o to_o profess_v against_o my_o conscience_n that_o i_o believe_v some_o error_n though_o never_o so_o small_a and_o innocent_a which_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v and_o will_v not_o allow_v i_o her_o communion_n but_o upon_o this_o condition_n in_o this_o case_n the_o church_n for_o require_v this_o condition_n be_v schismatical_a and_o not_o i_o for_o separate_n from_o the_o church_n to_o the_o three_o if_o any_o credit_n may_v be_v give_v to_o record_n far_o more_o creditable_a than_o these_o the_o doctrine_n of_o protestant_n that_o be_v the_o bible_n have_v be_v confirm_v and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o papist_n which_o be_v in_o many_o point_n plain_o opposite_a to_o it_o confound_v with_o supernatural_a and_o divine_a miracle_n which_o for_o number_n and_o glory_n outshine_v popish_a pretend_a miracle_n as_o much_o as_o the_o sun_n do_v a_o ignis_fw-la fatuus_fw-la those_o i_o mean_v which_o be_v wrought_v by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n now_o this_o book_n by_o the_o confession_n of_o all_o side_n confirm_v by_o innumerous_a miracle_n foretell_v i_o plain_o that_o in_o after_o age_n great_a sign_n and_o wonder_n shall_v be_v wrought_v in_o confirmation_n of_o false_a doctrine_n and_o that_o i_o be_o not_o to_o believe_v any_o doctrine_n which_o seem_v to_o my_o understanding_n repugnant_a to_o the_o first_o though_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n shall_v teach_v it_o which_o be_v certain_o as_o great_a a_o miracle_n as_o any_o that_o be_v ever_o wrought_v in_o attestation_n of_o any_o part_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o that_o true_a doctrine_n shall_v in_o all_o age_n have_v the_o testimony_n of_o miracle_n that_o i_o be_o not_o where_o teach_v so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o suspect_v and_o be_v afraid_a of_o pretend_a miracle_n as_o sign_n of_o false_a doctrine_n then_o much_o to_o regard_v they_o as_o certain_a argument_n of_o the_o truth_n beside_o set_v aside_o the_o bible_n and_o the_o tradition_n of_o it_o there_o be_v as_o good_a story_n for_o miracle_n wrought_v by_o those_o who_o live_v and_o die_v in_o opposition_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o by_o s._n cyprian_n colmannus_fw-la columbanus_n aidanus_fw-la and_o other_o as_o there_o be_v for_o those_o that_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v wrought_v by_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n last_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o no_o strange_a thing_n that_o god_n in_o his_o justice_n shall_v permit_v some_o true_a miracle_n to_o be_v wrought_v to_o delude_v they_o who_o have_v forge_v so_o many_o as_o apparent_o the_o professor_n of_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n have_v to_o abuse_v the_o world_n to_o the_o four_o all_o those_o be_v not_o 80._o not_o see_v this_o acknowledge_v by_o bellar_n the_o scrip_n eccles_n in_o philastrio_n by_o petavius_n animad_fw-la in_o epiph_n de_fw-fr inscrip_n operis_fw-la by_o s._n austin_n lib._n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la haer._n 80._o heretic_n which_o by_o philastrius_n epiphanius_n or_o s._n austin_n be_v put_v in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o heretic_n to_o the_o five_o king_n and_o nation_n have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v convert_v by_o man_n of_o contrary_a religion_n to_o the_o six_o the_o doctrine_n of_o papist_n be_v confess_v by_o papist_n contrary_a to_o the_o father_n in_o many_o point_n to_o the_o seven_o the_o pastor_n of_o a_o church_n can_v but_o have_v authority_n from_o it_o to_o preach_v against_o the_o abuse_n of_o it_o whether_o in_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n if_o there_o be_v any_o in_o it_o neither_o can_v any_o christian_a want_n a_o ordinary_a commission_n from_o god_n to_o do_v a_o necessary_a work_n of_o charity_n after_o a_o peaceable_a manner_n when_o there_o be_v no_o body_n else_o that_o can_v or_o will_v do_v it_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n extraordinary_a course_n be_v not_o to_o be_v disallow_v if_o some_o
predetermination_n or_o against_o it_o stephen_n bishop_n of_o rome_n hold_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o apostolic_a tradition_n that_o heretic_n give_v true_a baptism_n other_o there_o be_v and_o they_o as_o good_a catholic_n as_o he_o that_o hold_v that_o this_o be_v neither_o matter_n of_o faith_n nor_o matter_n of_o truth_n justin_n martyr_n and_o irenaeus_n hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o though_o justin_n martyr_v deny_v it_o yet_o you_o i_o hope_v will_v affirm_v that_o some_o good_a christian_n hold_v the_o contrary_n s._n augustine_n i_o be_o sure_a hold_v the_o communicate_v of_o infant_n as_o much_o apostolic_a tradition_n as_o the_o baptise_v of_o they_o whether_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o his_o time_n hold_v so_o too_o or_o hold_v otherwise_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o determine_v but_o sure_o i_o be_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o this_o present_a hold_v the_o contrary_a the_o same_o s._n austin_n hold_v it_o no_o matter_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v judge_n of_o appeals_n from_o all_o part_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n no_o not_o in_o major_a cause_n and_o major_a person_n whether_o the_o bishop_n or_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v then_o hold_v the_o contrary_n do_v you_o resolve_v i_o but_o now_o i_o be_o resolve_v they_o do_v so_o in_o all_o these_o difference_n the_o point_n in_o question_n be_v esteem_v and_o propose_v by_o one_o side_n at_o least_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o by_o the_o other_o reject_v as_o not_o so_o and_o either_o this_o be_v to_o disagree_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o you_o will_v have_v no_o mean_n to_o show_v that_o we_o do_v disagree_v now_o then_o to_o show_v you_o how_o weak_a and_o sandy_a the_o foundation_n be_v on_o which_o the_o whole_a fabric_n both_o of_o your_o book_n and_o church_n depend_v answer_v i_o brief_o to_o this_o dilemma_n either_o in_o these_o opposition_n one_o of_o the_o opposite_a part_n err_v damnable_o and_o deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o they_o do_v than_o they_o which_o do_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v may_v go_v to_o heaven_n and_o than_o you_o be_v rash_a and_o uncharitable_a in_o exclude_v we_o though_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o fault_n if_o not_o then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n that_o of_o two_o disagree_v about_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n one_o shall_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v and_o so_o the_o major_a and_o minor_a of_o your_o argument_n be_v prove_v false_a yet_o though_o they_o be_v as_o true_a as_o gospel_n and_o as_o evident_a as_o mathematical_a principle_n the_o conclusion_n so_o impertinent_a be_v it_o to_o the_o premise_n may_v still_o be_v false_a for_o that_o which_o natural_o issue_v from_o these_o proposition_n be_v not_o therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v but_o therefore_o one_o of_o they_o do_v something_o that_o be_v damnable_a but_o with_o what_o logic_n or_o what_o charity_n you_o can_v infer_v either_o as_o the_o immediate_a production_n of_o the_o former_a premise_n or_o as_o a_o corollary_n from_o this_o conclusion_n therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o you_o will_v pretend_v that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a such_o a_o one_o do_v something_o damnable_a therefore_o he_o shall_v certain_o be_v damn_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o to_o overthrow_v the_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n which_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n upon_o repentance_n and_o consequent_o to_o ruin_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o cardinal_n to_o determine_v for_o if_o against_o this_o it_o be_v allege_v that_o no_o man_n can_v repent_v of_o the_o sin_n wherein_o he_o die_v this_o muce_n i_o have_v already_o stop_v by_o show_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n of_o ignorance_n this_o be_v no_o way_n incongruous_a 13._o ad_fw-la 6._o §_o in_o your_o six_o parag._n i_o let_v all_o pass_v save_v only_o this_o that_o a_o persuasion_n that_o man_n of_o different_a religion_n you_o must_v mean_n christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n or_o communion_n may_v be_v save_v be_v a_o most_o pernicious_a heresy_n and_o even_o a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n what_o strange_a extraction_n chemistry_n can_v make_v i_o know_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o that_o by_o reason_n will_v infer_v this_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n from_o this_o ground_n that_o god_n will_v save_v man_n in_o different_a religion_n must_v have_v a_o high_a strain_n of_o logic_n than_o you_o or_o i_o have_v hitherto_o make_v show_v of_o in_o my_o apprehension_n the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n shall_v much_o rather_o follow_v from_o it_o and_o i_o say_v and_o will_v maintain_v that_o to_o say_v that_o christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n and_o communion_n such_o i_o mean_v who_o hold_v all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n may_v not_o obtain_v pardon_n for_o the_o error_n wherein_o they_o die_v ignorant_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n that_o to_o say_v the_o contrary_a be_v to_o cross_v in_o diameter_n a_o main_a article_n of_o our_o creed_n and_o to_o overthrow_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la 7._o §_o to_o what_o you_o say_v of_o some_o protestant_n that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n distinct_a from_o you_o i_o answer_v some_z perhaps_o undertake_v to_o do_v so_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o courtesy_n but_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v be_v much_o to_o seek_v for_o any_o one_o that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a for_o though_o you_o say_v that_o christ_n have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n yet_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o pretend_v that_o he_o have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v history_n and_o record_n always_o extant_a of_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o in_o all_o age_n nor_o that_o he_o have_v any_o where_o enjoin_v we_o to_o read_v those_o history_n that_o we_o may_v be_v able_a to_o show_v they_o 17._o to_o your_o ensue_a demand_n though_o some_o of_o they_o be_v very_o captious_a and_o ensnare_a yet_o i_o will_v give_v you_o as_o clear_v and_o plain_a and_o ingenuous_a answer_n as_o possible_o i_o can_v 18._o ad_fw-la 11._o §_o to_o the_o first_o then_o about_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o believe_v our_o saviour_n ever_o since_o his_o ascension_n have_v have_v in_o some_o place_n or_o other_o a_o visible_a true_a church_n on_o earth_n i_o mean_v a_o company_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v at_o least_o so_o much_o truth_n as_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a for_o their_o salvation_n and_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o will_v be_v somewhere_o or_o other_o such_o a_o church_n to_o the_o world_n end_n but_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n i_o do_v at_o no_o hand_n believe_v to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n 19_o ad_fw-la 12._o §_o to_o the_o second_o what_o visible_a church_n there_o be_v before_o luther_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a i_o answer_v that_o before_o luther_n there_o be_v many_o visible_a church_n in_o many_o thing_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a but_o not_o that_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o because_o she_o herself_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o whole_a though_o much_o corrupt_v and_o to_o undertake_v to_o name_v a_o catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o be_v to_o make_v she_o no_o part_n of_o it_o which_o we_o do_v not_o nor_o need_v not_o pretend_v and_o for_o man_n agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o all_o point_n we_o will_v then_o produce_v they_o when_o you_o shall_v either_o prove_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v which_o you_o know_v we_o absolute_o deny_v or_o when_o you_o shall_v produce_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o professor_n which_o in_o all_o point_n have_v agree_v with_o you_o and_o disagree_v from_o you_o in_o nothing_o but_o this_o my_o promise_n to_o deal_v plain_o with_o you_o i_o conceive_v and_o so_o intend_v it_o to_o be_v very_o like_o he_o who_o undertake_v to_o drink_v up_o the_o sea_n upon_o condition_n that_o he_o to_o who_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v shall_v first_o stop_v the_o river_n from_o run_v in_o for_o this_o unreasonable_a request_n which_o you_o make_v to_o we_o be_v to_o yourselves_o so_o impossible_a that_o in_o the_o very_a next_o age_n after_o the_o apostle_n you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o name_v a_o man_n who_o you_o can_v prove_v to_o have_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o all_o thing_n nay_o if_o you_o speak_v of_o such_o who_o work_n be_v extant_a and_o unquestioned_a who_o we_o can_v prove_v
but_o until_o then_o as_o he_o say_v in_o the_o comedy_n quid_fw-la verba_fw-la audiam_fw-la cum_fw-la facta_fw-la videam_fw-la so_o may_v i_o say_v to_o you_o quid_fw-la verba_fw-la audiam_fw-la cum_fw-la facta_fw-la non_fw-la videam_fw-la to_o what_o purpose_n shall_v you_o give_v we_o charitable_a word_n which_o present_o you_o retract_v again_o by_o deny_v we_o your_o charitable_a action_n and_o as_o these_o thing_n you_o must_v do_v if_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o and_o make_v good_a this_o pretend_a charity_n so_o must_v i_o tell_v you_o again_o and_o again_o that_o one_o thing_n you_o must_v not_o do_v i_o mean_v you_o must_v not_o affright_v poor_a people_n out_o of_o their_o religion_n with_o tell_v they_o that_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o both_o side_n your_o way_n be_v safe_a but_o in_o your_o judgement_n we_o undoubted_o damnable_a see_v neither_o you_o deny_v salvation_n to_o protestant_n die_v with_o repentance_n nor_o we_o promise_v it_o to_o you_o if_o you_o die_v without_o it_o for_o to_o deal_v plain_o with_o you_o i_o know_v no_o protestant_n that_o have_v any_o other_o hope_n of_o your_o salvation_n but_o upon_o these_o ground_n that_o unaffected_a ignorance_n may_v excuse_v you_o or_o true_a repentance_n obtain_v pardon_n for_o you_o neither_o do_v the_o heavy_a censure_n which_o protestant_n you_o say_v pass_v upon_o your_o error_n any_o way_n hinder_v but_o they_o may_v hope_v as_o well_o of_o you_o upon_o repentance_n as_o i_o do_v for_o the_o fierce_a doctrine_n which_o god_n know_v who_o teach_v that_o christ_n for_o many_o age_n before_o luther_n have_v no_o visible_a church_n upon_o earth_n will_v be_v mild_a enough_o if_o you_o conceive_v they_o to_o mean_v as_o perhaps_o they_o do_v by_o no_o visible_a church_n none_o pure_a and_o free_a from_o corruption_n which_o in_o your_o judgement_n be_v all_o one_o with_o no_o church_n but_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o destruction_n of_o it_o be_v not_o all_o one_o for_o if_o a_o particular_a man_n or_o church_n may_v as_o you_o confess_v they_o may_v hold_v some_o particular_a error_n and_o yet_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a why_o may_v not_o the_o church_n hold_v some_o universal_a error_n and_o yet_o be_v still_o the_o church_n especial_o see_v you_o say_v it_o be_v nothing_o but_o oppose_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n that_o make_v a_o error_n damnable_a and_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o the_o church_n shall_v oppose_v the_o church_n i_o mean_v that_o the_o present_a church_n shall_v oppose_v itself_o and_o then_o for_o the_o english_a protestant_n though_o they_o censure_v your_o error_n deep_o yet_o by_o your_o favour_n with_o their_o deep_a censure_n it_o may_v well_o consist_v that_o invincible_a ignorance_n may_v excuse_v you_o from_o damnation_n for_o they_o for_o you_o yourself_o confess_v that_o ignorance_n may_v excuse_v error_n even_o in_o fundamental_a article_n of_o faith_n so_o that_o a_o man_n so_o err_a shall_v not_o offend_v at_o all_o in_o such_o his_o ignorance_n or_o error_n they_o be_v your_o own_o word_n p._n 19_o and_o again_o with_o their_o heavy_a censure_n it_o may_v well_o consist_v that_o your_o error_n though_o in_o themselves_o damanble_a yet_o may_v prove_v not_o damn_v to_o you_o if_o you_o die_v with_o true_a repentance_n for_o all_o your_o sin_n know_v and_o unknown_a 5._o thus_o much_o charity_n therefore_o if_o you_o stand_v to_o what_o you_o have_v say_v be_v interchangeable_o grant_v by_o each_o side_n to_o the_o other_o that_o neither_o religion_n be_v so_o fatal_o destructive_a but_o that_o by_o ignorance_n or_o repentance_n salvation_n may_v be_v have_v on_o both_o side_n though_o with_o a_o difference_n that_o keep_v papist_n still_v on_o the_o more_o uncharitable_a side_n for_o whereas_o we_o conceive_v a_o low_a degree_n of_o repentance_n that_o which_o they_o call_v attrition_n if_o it_o be_v true_a and_o effectual_a and_o convert_v the_o heart_n of_o the_o penitent_a will_v serve_v in_o they_o they_o pretend_v even_o this_o author_n which_o be_v most_o charitable_a towards_o we_o that_o without_o contrition_n there_o be_v no_o hope_n for_o we_o but_o though_o protestant_n may_v not_o obtain_v this_o purchase_n at_o so_o easy_a a_o rate_n as_o papist_n yet_o even_a papist_n be_v judge_n they_o may_v obtain_v it_o and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o entrance_n for_o they_o but_o at_o the_o only_a door_n of_o contrition_n yet_o they_o may_v enter_v heaven_n be_v not_o inaccessible_a to_o they_o their_o error_n be_v no_o such_o impenetrable_a istmus_n between_o they_o and_o salvation_n but_o that_o contrition_n may_v make_v a_o way_n through_o they_o all_o their_o schism_n and_o heresy_n be_v no_o such_o fatal_a poison_n but_o that_o if_o a_o man_n join_v with_o it_o the_o antidote_n of_o a_o general_a repentance_n he_o may_v die_v in_o it_o and_o live_v for_o ever_o thus_o much_o then_o be_v acknowledge_v i_o appeal_v to_o any_o indifferent_a reader_n whether_o c._n m._n be_v not_o by_o his_o hyperaspist_n forsake_v in_o the_o plain_a field_n and_o the_o point_n in_o question_n grant_v to_o d._n potter_n viz._n that_o protestancy_n even_o without_o a_o particular_a repentance_n be_v not_o destructive_a of_o salvation_n so_o that_o all_o the_o controversy_n remain_v now_o be_v not_o simple_o whether_o protestancy_n unrepented_a destroy_v salvation_n as_o it_o be_v at_o first_o propose_v but_o whether_o protestancy_n in_o itself_o that_o be_v abstract_v from_o ignorance_n and_o contrition_n destroy_v salvation_n so_o that_o as_o a_o foolish_a fellow_n who_o give_v a_o knight_n the_o lie_n desire_v withal_o leave_v of_o he_o to_o set_v his_o knighthood_n aside_o be_v answer_v by_o he_o that_o he_o will_v not_o suffer_v any_o thing_n to_o be_v set_v aside_o that_o belong_v unto_o he_o so_o may_v we_o just_o take_v it_o amiss_o that_o conceive_v as_o you_o do_v ignorance_n and_o repentance_n such_o necessary_a thing_n for_o we_o you_o be_v not_o more_o willing_a to_o consider_v we_o with_o they_o than_o without_o they_o for_o my_o part_n such_o be_v my_o charity_n to_o you_o that_o consider_v what_o great_a necessity_n you_o have_v as_o much_o as_o any_o christian_a society_n in_o the_o world_n that_o these_o sanctuary_n of_o ignorance_n and_o repentance_n shall_v always_o stand_v open_a i_o can_v very_o hardly_o persuade_v myself_o so_o much_o as_o in_o my_o most_o secret_a consideration_n to_o divest_v you_o of_o these_o so_o needful_a qualification_n but_o whensoever_o your_o error_n superstition_n and_o impiety_n come_v into_o my_o mind_n and_o beside_o the_o general_a bond_n of_o humanity_n and_o christianity_n my_o own_o particular_a obligation_n to_o many_o of_o you_o such_o and_o so_o great_a that_o you_o can_v perish_v without_o a_o part_n of_o myself_o my_o only_a comfort_n be_v amid_o these_o agony_n that_o the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n too_o of_o repentance_n be_v yet_o remain_v in_o your_o church_n and_o that_o though_o you_o put_v on_o a_o face_n of_o confidence_n of_o your_o innocence_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n yet_o you_o will_v be_v glad_a to_o stand_v in_o the_o eye_n of_o mercy_n as_o well_o as_o your_o fellow_n and_o not_o be_v so_o stout_a as_o to_o refuse_v either_o god_n pardon_n or_o the_o king_n 6._o but_o for_o the_o present_a protestancy_n be_v call_v to_o the_o bar_n and_o though_o not_o sentence_v by_o you_o to_o death_n without_o mercy_n yet_o arraign_v of_o so_o much_o natural_a malignity_n if_o not_o correct_v by_o ignorance_n or_o contrition_n as_o to_o be_v in_o itself_o destructive_a of_o salvation_n which_o controversy_n i_o be_o content_a to_o dispute_v with_o you_o only_o remember_v you_o that_o the_o add_v of_o this_o limitation_n in_v itself_o have_v make_v this_o a_o new_a question_n and_o that_o this_o be_v not_o the_o conclusion_n for_o which_o you_o be_v charge_v with_o want_n of_o charity_n 7._o ad_fw-la 7._o and_o 8._o §_o c._n m._n now_o this_o be_v our_o gradatio_fw-la nof_n reason_n almighty_a god_n have_v ordain_v mankind_n to_o a_o supernatural_a end_n of_o eternal_a felicity_n have_v in_o his_o providence_n settle_v competent_a mean_n etc._n etc._n i_o will_v in_o your_o gradation_n i_o shall_v rise_v so_o far_o with_o you_o as_o to_o grant_v that_o christ_n found_v a_o visible_a church_n store_v with_o all_o help_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n particular_o with_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o beget_v and_o conserve_v faith_n to_o maintain_v unity_n and_o compose_v schism_n to_o discover_v and_o condemn_v heresy_n and_o to_o determine_v all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v determine_v for_o all_o these_o purpose_n he_o give_v at_o the_o beginning_n as_o we_o may_v see_v in_o the_o ep._n to_o the_o ephesian_n apostle_n prophet_n evangelist_n pastor_n and_o doctor_n who_o by_o word_n of_o mouth_n teach_v their_o
but_o what_o be_v plain_o reveal_v for_o to_o say_v that_o when_o a_o place_n of_o scripture_n by_o reason_n of_o ambiguous_a term_n lie_v indifferent_a between_o divers_a sense_n whereof_o one_o be_v true_a and_o the_o other_o be_v false_a that_o god_n oblige_v man_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n not_o to_o mistake_v through_o error_n and_o humane_a frailty_n be_v to_o make_v god_n a_o tyrant_n and_o to_o say_v that_o he_o require_v we_o certain_o to_o attain_v that_o end_n for_o the_o attain_n whereof_o we_o have_v no_o certain_a mean_n which_o be_v to_o say_v that_o like_o pharaoh_n he_o give_v no_o straw_n and_o require_v brick_n that_o he_o reap_v where_o he_o sow_v not_o that_o he_o gather_v where_o he_o strew_v not_o that_o he_o will_v not_o be_v please_v with_o our_o utmost_a endeavour_n to_o please_v he_o without_o full_a and_o exact_a and_o never_o fail_a performance_n that_o his_o will_n be_v we_o shall_v do_v what_o he_o know_v we_o can_v do_v that_o he_o will_v not_o accept_v of_o we_o according_a to_o that_o which_o we_o have_v but_o require_v of_o we_o what_o we_o have_v not_o which_o whether_o it_o can_v consist_v with_o his_o goodness_n with_o his_o wisdom_n and_o with_o his_o word_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o honest_a man_n to_o judge_v if_o i_o shall_v send_v a_o servant_n to_o paris_n or_o rome_n or_o jerusalem_n and_o he_o use_v his_o utmost_a diligence_n not_o to_o mistake_v his_o way_n yet_o notwithstanding_o meet_v often_o with_o such_o place_n where_o the_o road_n be_v divide_v into_o several_a way_n whereof_o every_o one_o be_v as_o likely_a to_o be_v true_a and_o as_o likely_a to_o be_v false_a as_o any_o other_o shall_v at_o length_n mistake_v and_o go_v out_o of_o the_o way_n will_v not_o any_o man_n say_v that_o i_o be_v a_o impotent_a foolish_a and_o unjust_a master_n if_o i_o shall_v be_v offend_v with_o he_o for_o do_v so_o and_o shall_v we_o not_o tremble_v to_o impute_v that_o to_o god_n which_o we_o will_v take_v in_o foul_a scorn_n if_o it_o be_v impute_v to_o ourselves_o certain_o i_o for_o my_o part_n fear_v i_o shall_v not_o love_v god_n if_o i_o shall_v think_v so_o strange_o of_o he_o 105._o again_o when_o you_o say_v that_o unlearned_a and_o ignorant_a man_n can_v understand_v scripture_n i_o will_v desire_v you_o to_o come_v out_o of_o the_o cloud_n and_o tell_v we_o what_o you_o mean_v whether_o that_o they_o can_v understand_v all_o scripture_n or_o that_o they_o can_v understand_v any_o scripture_n or_o that_o they_o can_v understand_v so_o much_o as_o be_v sufficient_a for_o their_o direction_n to_o heaven_n if_o the_o first_o i_o believe_v the_o learned_a be_v in_o the_o same_o case_n if_o the_o second_o every_o man_n experience_n will_v confute_v you_o for_o who_o be_v there_o that_o be_v not_o capable_a of_o a_o sufficient_a understanding_n of_o the_o story_n the_o precept_n the_o promise_n and_o the_o threat_n of_o the_o gospel_n if_o the_o three_o that_o they_o may_v understand_v something_o but_o not_o enough_o for_o their_o salvation_n i_o ask_v you_o first_o why_o then_o do_v saint_n paul_n say_v to_o timothy_n the_o scripture_n be_v able_a to_o make_v he_o wise_a unto_o salvation_n why_o do_v saint_n austin_n say_v ea_fw-la quae_fw-la manifestè_fw-la posita_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o sacris_fw-la scripture_n omne_fw-la continent_n quae_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la fidem_fw-la moresque_fw-la vivendi_fw-la why_o do_v every_o one_o of_o the_o four_o evangelist_n entitle_v their_o book_n the_o gospel_n if_o any_o necessary_a and_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v leave_v out_o of_o it_o can_v we_o imagine_v that_o either_o they_o omit_v something_o necessary_a out_o of_o ignorance_n not_o know_v it_o to_o be_v necessary_a or_o know_v it_o to_o be_v so_o malicious_o conceal_v it_o or_o out_o of_o negligence_n do_v the_o work_n they_o have_v undertake_v by_o half_n if_o none_o of_o these_o thing_n can_v without_o blasphemy_n be_v impute_v to_o they_o consider_v they_o be_v assist_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o this_o work_n then_o certain_o it_o most_o evident_o follow_v that_o every_o one_o of_o they_o write_v the_o whole_a gospel_n of_o christ_n i_o mean_v all_o the_o essential_a and_o necessary_a part_n of_o it_o so_o that_o if_o we_o have_v no_o other_o book_n of_o scripture_n but_o one_o of_o they_o alone_o we_o shall_v not_o want_v any_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o what_o one_o of_o they_o have_v more_o than_o another_o it_o be_v only_o profitable_a and_o not_o necessary_a necessary_a indeed_o to_o be_v believe_v because_o reveal_v but_o not_o therefore_o reveal_v because_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v 106._o neither_o do_v they_o write_v only_o for_o the_o learned_a but_o for_o all_o man_n this_o be_v one_o especial_a mean_n of_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o gospel_n which_o be_v command_v to_o be_v preach_v not_o only_o to_o learned_a man_n but_o to_o all_o man_n and_o therefore_o unless_o we_o will_v imagine_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o they_o to_o have_v be_v wilful_o want_v to_o their_o own_o desire_n and_o purpose_n we_o must_v conceive_v that_o they_o intend_v to_o speak_v plain_a even_o to_o the_o capacity_n of_o the_o simple_a at_o least_o touch_v all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o be_v publish_v by_o they_o and_o believe_v by_o we_o 107._o and_o whereas_o you_o pretend_v it_o be_v so_o easy_a and_o obvious_a both_o for_o the_o learned_a and_o the_o ignorant_a both_o to_o know_v which_o be_v the_o church_n and_o what_o be_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o church_n and_o what_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o those_o decree_n i_o say_v this_o be_v a_o vain_a pretence_n 108._o for_o first_o how_o shall_v a_o unlearned_a man_n who_o you_o have_v suppose_v now_o ignorant_a of_o scripture_n how_o shall_v he_o know_v which_o of_o all_o the_o society_n of_o christian_n be_v indeed_o the_o church_n you_o will_v say_v perhaps_o he_o must_v examine_v they_o by_o the_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v perpetual_a visibility_n succession_n conformity_n with_o the_o ancient_a church_n etc._n etc._n but_o how_o shall_v he_o know_v first_o that_o these_o be_v the_o note_n of_o the_o church_n unless_o by_o scripture_n which_o you_o say_v he_o understand_v not_o you_o may_v say_v perhaps_o he_o may_v be_v tell_v so_o but_o see_v man_n may_v deceive_v and_o be_v deceive_v and_o their_o word_n be_v no_o demonstration_n how_o shall_v he_o be_v assure_v that_o what_o they_o say_v be_v true_a so_o that_o at_o the_o first_o he_o meet_v with_o a_o impregnable_a difficulty_n and_o can_v know_v the_o church_n but_o by_o such_o note_n which_o whether_o they_o be_v the_o note_n of_o the_o church_n he_o can_v possible_o know_v but_o let_v we_o suppose_v this_o isthmus_n dig_v through_o and_o that_o he_o be_v assure_v these_o be_v the_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n how_o can_v he_o possible_o be_v a_o competent_a judge_n which_o society_n of_o christian_n have_v title_n to_o these_o note_n and_o which_o have_v not_o see_v this_o trial_n of_o necessity_n require_v a_o great_a sufficiency_n of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o monument_n of_o christian_a antiquity_n which_o no_o unlearned_a can_v have_v because_o he_o that_o have_v it_o can_v be_v unlearned_a as_o for_o example_n how_o shall_v he_o possible_o be_v able_a to_o know_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v have_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o visible_a professor_n which_o hold_v always_o the_o same_o doctrine_n which_o they_o now_o hold_v without_o hold_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_a unless_o he_o have_v first_o examine_v what_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o first_o age_n what_o in_o the_o second_o and_o so_o forth_o and_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o a_o more_o difficult_a work_n than_o to_o stay_v at_o the_o first_o age_n and_o to_o examine_v the_o church_n by_o the_o conformity_n of_o her_o doctrine_n with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o first_o age_n every_o man_n of_o ordinary_a understanding_n may_v judge_v let_v we_o imagine_v he_o advance_v a_o step_n far_o and_o to_o know_v which_o be_v the_o church_n how_o shall_v he_o know_v what_o that_o church_n have_v decree_v see_v the_o church_n have_v not_o be_v so_o careful_a in_o keep_v of_o her_o decree_n but_o that_o many_o be_v lose_v and_o many_o corrupt_v beside_o when_o even_o the_o learned_a among_o you_o be_v not_o agree_v concern_v divers_a thing_n whether_o they_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o not_o how_o shall_v the_o unlearned_a do_v then_o for_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o decree_n how_o can_v he_o be_v more_o capable_a of_o the_o understanding_n of_o they_o then_o of_o plain_a text_n of_o scripture_n which_o you_o will_v not_o suffer_v he_o to_o understand_v especial_o see_v the_o decree_n of_o divers_a pope_n and_o council_n be_v conceive_v so_o obscure_o
book_n and_o not_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o book_n and_o therefore_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v profess_v the_o not_o believe_v of_o these_o i_o shall_v have_v reason_n to_o fear_v he_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o but_o there_o be_v not_o always_o a_o equal_a necessity_n for_o the_o belief_n of_o those_o thing_n for_o the_o belief_n whereof_o there_o be_v a_o equal_a reason_n we_o have_v i_o believe_v as_o great_a reason_n to_o believe_v there_o be_v such_o a_o man_n as_o henry_n the_o viii_o king_n of_o england_n as_o that_o jesus_n christ_n suffer_v under_o pontius_n pilate_n yet_o this_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v and_o that_o be_v not_o so_o so_o that_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v doubt_v of_o or_o disbelieve_v that_o it_o be_v most_o unreasonable_o do_v of_o he_o yet_o it_o be_v no_o mortal_a sin_n nor_o no_o sin_n at_o all_o god_n have_v no_o where_n command_v man_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n to_o believe_v all_o which_o reason_n induce_v they_o to_o believe_v therefore_o as_o a_o executor_n that_o shall_v perform_v the_o whole_a will_n of_o the_o dead_a shall_v full_o satisfy_v the_o law_n though_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o parchment_n to_o be_v his_o write_a will_n which_o indeed_o be_v so_o so_o i_o believe_v that_o he_o who_o believe_v all_o the_o particular_a doctrine_n which_o integrate_a christianity_n and_o live_v according_a to_o they_o shall_v be_v save_v though_o he_o neither_o believe_v nor_o know_v that_o the_o gospel_n be_v write_v by_o the_o evangelist_n or_o the_o epistle_n by_o the_o apostle_n 160._o this_o discourse_n whether_o it_o be_v rational_a and_o conclude_a or_o not_o i_o submit_v to_o better_a judgement_n but_o sure_o i_o be_o that_o the_o corollary_n which_o you_o draw_v from_o this_o position_n that_o this_o point_n be_v not_o fundamental_a be_v very_o inconsequent_a that_o be_v that_o we_o be_v uncertain_a of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o because_o we_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n much_o more_o particular_a church_n and_o private_a man_n may_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a a_o pretty_a sophism_n depend_v upon_o this_o principle_n that_o whosoever_o possible_o may_v err_v he_o can_v be_v certain_a that_o he_o do_v not_o err_v and_o upon_o this_o ground_n what_o shall_v hinder_v i_o from_o conclude_v that_o see_v you_o also_o hold_v that_o neither_o particular_a church_n nor_o private_a man_n be_v infallible_a even_o in_o fundamental_o that_o even_o the_o fundamental_o of_o christianity_n remain_v to_o you_o uncertain_a a_o judge_n may_v possible_o err_v in_o judgement_n can_v he_o therefore_o never_o have_v assurance_n that_o he_o have_v judge_v right_a a_o traveller_n may_v possible_o mistake_v his_o way_n must_v i_o therefore_o be_v doubtful_a whether_o i_o be_o in_o the_o right_a way_n from_o my_o hall_n to_o my_o chamber_n or_o can_v our_o london_n carrier_n have_v no_o certainty_n in_o the_o middle_n of_o the_o day_n when_o he_o be_v sober_a and_o in_o his_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o way_n to_o london_n these_o you_o see_v be_v right_o worthy_a consequence_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v as_o like_v your_o own_o as_o a_o egg_n to_o a_o egg_n or_o milk_n to_o milk_n 163._o ad_fw-la §_o 27._o c._n m._n s._n austin_n plain_o affirm_v that_o to_o oppose_v the_o church_n definition_n be_v to_o resist_v god_n himself_o speak_v of_o the_o controversy_n of_o rebaptization_n de_fw-fr unit._n eccl._n cap._n 22._o where_o he_o say_v that_o christ_n bear_v witness_v to_o his_o church_n and_o whosoever_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n do_v resist_v our_o saviour_n himself_o who_o by_o his_o testimony_n recommend_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n i_o will_v i_o answer_v first_o that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o will_v not_o be_v try_v by_o s._n augustine_n judgement_n nor_o submit_v to_o his_o authority_n not_o concern_v appeals_n to_o rome_n not_o concern_v transubstantiation_n not_o touch_v the_o use_n and_o worship_v of_o image_n not_o concern_v the_o state_n of_o saint_n soul_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n not_o touch_v the_o virgin_n mary_fw-mi freedom_n from_o actual_a and_o original_a sin_n not_o touch_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o infant_n not_o touch_v the_o damn_v infant_n to_o hell_n that_o die_v without_o baptism_n not_o touch_v the_o knowledge_n of_o saint_n depart_v not_o touch_v purgatory_n not_o touch_v the_o fallibility_n of_o council_n even_o general_a council_n not_o touch_v perfection_n and_o perspicuity_n of_o scripture_n in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n not_o touch_v auricular_a confession_n not_o touch_v the_o half_a communion_n not_o touch_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n in_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v you_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o s._n austin_n judgement_n and_o therefore_o can_v with_o no_o reason_n or_o equity_n require_v we_o to_o do_v so_o in_o this_o matter_n 2._o to_o s._n augustine_n in_o heat_n of_o disputation_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o ransack_v all_o place_n for_o argument_n against_o they_o we_o oppose_v s._n austin_n out_o of_o this_o heat_n deliver_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christianity_n calm_o and_o moderate_o where_o he_o say_v in_o iis_fw-la quae_fw-la apertè_fw-la posita_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o sacris_fw-la scripture_n be_v omne_fw-la ea_fw-la reperiuntur_fw-la quae_fw-la continent_n fidem_fw-la moresque_fw-la vivendi_fw-la 3._o we_o say_v he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o roman_a but_o the_o catholic_n church_n of_o far_o great_a extent_n and_o therefore_o of_o far_o great_a credit_n and_o authority_n than_o the_o roman_a church_n 4_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o point_n not_o express_v but_o yet_o not_o contradict_v by_o scripture_n whereas_o the_o error_n we_o charge_v you_o with_o be_v contradict_v by_o scripture_n 5._o he_o say_v not_o that_o christ_n have_v recommend_v the_o church_n to_o we_o for_o a_o infallible_a definer_n of_o all_o emergent_a controversy_n but_o for_o a_o credible_a witness_n of_o ancient_a tradition_n whosoever_o therefore_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n understand_v of_o all_o place_n and_o age_n though_o he_o be_v think_v to_o resist_v our_o saviour_n what_o be_v that_o to_o we_o who_o cast_v off_o no_o practiec_n of_o the_o church_n but_o such_o as_o be_v evident_o post-nate_a to_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o plain_o contrary_a to_o the_o practice_n of_o former_a and_o pure_a time_n last_o it_o be_v evident_a and_o even_o to_o impudence_n itself_o undeniable_a that_o upon_o this_o ground_n of_o believe_v all_o thing_n teach_v by_o the_o present_a church_n as_o teach_v by_o christ_n error_n be_v hold_v for_o example_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o infant_n and_o that_o in_o s._n austin_n time_n and_o that_o by_o s._n austin_n himself_n and_o therefore_o without_o controversy_n this_o be_v no_o certain_a ground_n for_o truth_n which_o may_v support_v falsehood_n as_o well_o as_o truth_n 164._o to_o the_o argument_n wherewith_o you_o conclude_v i_o answer_v that_o though_o the_o visible_a church_n shall_v always_o without_o fail_n propose_v so_o much_o of_o god_n revelation_n as_o be_v sufficient_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o heaven_n for_o otherwise_o it_o will_v not_o be_v the_o visible_a church_n yet_o it_o may_v sometime_o add_v to_o this_o revelation_n thing_n superfluous_a nay_o hurtful_a nay_o in_o themselves_o damnable_a though_o not_o unpardonable_a and_o sometime_o take_v from_o it_o thing_n very_o expedient_a and_o profitable_a and_o therefore_o it_o be_v possible_a without_o sin_n to_o resist_v in_o some_o thing_n the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o you_o press_v we_o far_o and_o demand_v what_o visible_a church_n be_v extant_a when_o luther_n begin_v whether_o it_o be_v the_o roman_a or_o protestant_a church_n as_o if_o it_o must_v of_o necessity_n either_o be_v protestant_n or_o roman_a or_o roman_a of_o necessity_n if_o it_o be_v not_o protestant_a yet_o this_o be_v the_o most_o usual_a fallacy_n of_o all_o your_o disputer_n by_o some_o specious_a argument_n to_o persuade_v weak_a man_n that_o the_o church_n of_o protestant_n can_v be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o thence_o to_o infer_v that_o without_o doubt_v it_o must_v be_v the_o roman_a but_o why_o may_v not_o the_o roman_a be_v content_a to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o the_o grecian_a another_o and_o if_o one_o must_v be_v the_o whole_a why_o not_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o roman_a there_o be_v not_o one_o note_n of_o your_o church_n which_o agree_v not_o to_o she_o as_o well_o as_o to_o your_o own_o unless_o it_o be_v that_o she_o be_v poor_a and_o oppress_v by_o the_o turk_n and_o you_o be_v in_o glory_n and_o splendour_n chap._n iii_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o three_o chapter_n wherein_o it_o be_v maintain_v that_o the_o distinction_n of_o point_n fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a be_v in_o this_o present_a controversy_n
catalogue_n of_o fundamental_o and_o therefore_o if_o this_o be_v all_o your_o reason_n to_o demand_v a_o particular_a catalogue_n of_o fundamental_o we_o can_v but_o think_v your_o demand_n unreasonable_a especial_o have_v yourself_o express_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o it_o and_o that_o be_v because_o scripture_n do_v deliver_v divine_a truth_n but_o seldom_o qualify_v they_o or_o declare_v whether_o they_o be_v or_o be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n yet_o not_o so_o seldom_o but_o that_o out_o of_o it_o i_o can_v give_v you_o a_o abstract_n of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o christianity_n if_o it_o be_v necessary_a but_o i_o have_v show_v it_o not_o so_o by_o confute_v your_o reason_n pretend_v for_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o and_o at_o this_o time_n i_o have_v no_o leisure_n to_o do_v you_o courtesy_n that_o be_v so_o troublesome_a to_o myself_o yet_o thus_o much_o i_o will_v promise_v that_o when_o you_o deliver_v a_o particular_a catalogue_n 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nullity_n in_o any_o decree_n that_o a_o pope_n shall_v make_v or_o any_o decree_n of_o a_o council_n which_o he_o shall_v confirm_v particular_o it_o will_v be_v at_o least_o a_o even_a wager_n that_o all_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v void_a because_o it_o be_v at_o most_o but_o very_o probable_a that_o the_o pope_n which_o confirm_v they_o be_v true_a pope_n 62._o obj._n but_o unless_o this_o question_n be_v answer_v what_o point_v of_o the_o â—â—â—ed_n be_v and_o what_o be_v not_o fundamental_o the_o proteâ—â—eâ—t_a doctrine_n serve_v only_o either_o to_o make_v man_n despare_v or_o else_o to_o have_v recourse_n to_o those_o call_a papist_n answ_n it_o seem_v a_o little_a thing_n will_v make_v you_o despair_n if_o you_o be_v so_o sullen_a as_o to_o do_v so_o because_o man_n will_v not_o trouble_v themselves_o to_o satisfy_v your_o curious_a question_n and_o i_o pray_v be_v not_o offend_v with_o i_o for_o so_o esteem_v it_o because_o as_o before_o i_o tell_v you_o if_o you_o will_v believe_v all_o the_o point_n of_o the_o creed_n you_o can_v choose_v but_o believe_v all_o the_o point_n of_o it_o that_o be_v fundamental_a though_o you_o be_v ignorant_a which_o be_v so_o and_o which_o be_v not_o so_o now_o i_o believe_v your_o desire_n to_o know_v which_o be_v fundamental_o proceed_v only_o from_o a_o desire_n to_o be_v assure_v that_o you_o do_v believe_v they_o which_o see_v you_o may_v be_v assure_v of_o without_o know_v which_o they_o be_v what_o can_v it_o be_v but_o curiosity_n to_o desire_v to_o know_v it_o neither_o may_v you_o think_v to_o mend_v yourself_o herein_o one_o whit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o they_o who_o we_o call_v papist_n for_o they_o be_v as_o far_o to_o seek_v as_o we_o in_o this_o point_n which_o of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v for_o their_o nature_n and_o matter_n fundamental_a and_o which_o be_v not_o particular_o you_o will_v scarce_o meet_v with_o any_o among_o their_o doctor_n so_o adventurous_a as_o to_o tell_v you_o for_o a_o certain_a whether_o or_o no_o the_o conception_n of_o christ_n by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n his_o be_v bear_v of_o a_o virgin_n his_o burial_n his_o descent_n into_o hell_n and_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n be_v point_n of_o their_o own_o nature_n and_o matter_n fundamental_a such_o i_o mean_v as_o without_o the_o distinct_a and_o explicit_a knowledge_n of_o they_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v 63._o obj._n we_o give_v this_o certain_a rule_n that_o all_o point_v define_v by_o christ_n visible_a church_n belong_v to_o the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n in_o this_o sense_n that_o to_o deny_v any_o such_o can_v stand_v with_o salvation_n answ_n so_o also_o protestant_n give_v you_o this_o more_o certain_a rule_n that_o whosoever_o believe_v hearty_o those_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o all_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n acknowledge_v to_o be_v canonical_a and_o submit_v himself_o indeed_o to_o this_o as_o to_o the_o rule_n of_o his_o belief_n must_v of_o necessity_n believe_v all_o thing_n fundamental_a and_o if_o he_o live_v according_a to_o his_o faith_n can_v fail_v of_o salvation_n but_o beside_o what_o certainty_n have_v you_o that_o that_o rule_n of_o papist_n be_v so_o certain_a by_o the_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v plain_a they_o mean_v only_o their_o own_o and_o why_o their_o own_o only_a shall_v be_v the_o visible_a church_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v and_o as_o little_a why_o all_o point_v define_v by_o this_o church_n shall_v belong_v to_o the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n these_o thing_n you_o have_v need_n see_v well_o and_o substantial_o prove_v before_o you_o rely_v upon_o they_o otherwise_o you_o expose_v yourself_o to_o danger_n of_o embrace_v damnable_a error_n instead_o of_o fundamental_a truth_n 67._o ad_fw-la §_o 23_o 24_o 25._o d._n p._n demand_n how_o it_o can_v be_v necessary_a for_o any_o christian_a to_o have_v more_o in_o his_o creed_n than_o the_o apostle_n bad_a and_o this_o he_o enforce_v with_o many_o argument_n thus_o may_v the_o church_n of_o after_o age_n make_v the_o narrow_a way_n to_o heaven_n narrow_a than_o our_o saviour_n leave_v it_o shall_v it_o be_v a_o fault_n to_o straiten_v and_o encumber_v the_o king_n high_a way_n with_o public_a nuisance_n and_o be_v it_o lawful_a by_o add_v new_a article_n to_o the_o faith_n to_o retrench_v any_o thing_n from_o the_o latitude_n of_o the_o king_n of_o heaven_n high_a way_n to_o eternal_a happiness_n the_o yoke_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o say_v be_v easy_a may_v it_o be_v just_o make_v heavy_a by_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n in_o after_o age_n the_o apostle_n profess_v they_o reveal_v to_o the_o church_n the_o whole_a counsel_n of_o god_n keep_v back_o nothing_o needful_a for_o our_o salvation_n what_o tyranny_n then_o to_o impose_v any_o new_a unnecessary_a matter_n on_o the_o faith_n of_o christian_n especial_o as_o the_o late_a pope_n have_v do_v under_o the_o high_a command_a form_n qui_fw-la non_fw-la crediderit_fw-la damnabitur_fw-la he_o that_o believe_v not_o shall_v be_v damn_v if_o this_o may_v be_v do_v why_o then_o do_v our_o saviour_n reprehend_v the_o pharisee_n so_o sharp_o for_o bind_v heavy_a burden_n and_o lay_v they_o on_o man_n shoulder_n and_o why_o do_v he_o teach_v they_o that_o in_o vain_a they_o worship_v god_n teach_v for_o doctrine_n man_n tradition_n and_o why_o do_v the_o apostle_n call_v it_o tempt_v of_o god_n to_o lay_v those_o thing_n upon_o the_o neck_n of_o christian_n that_o be_v not_o necessary_a 68_o all_o which_o interrogation_n seem_v to_o i_o to_o contain_v so_o many_o plain_a and_o convince_a argument_n of_o the_o premise_a assertion_n and_o if_o you_o can_v devise_v no_o fair_a and_o satisfy_a answer_n to_o they_o then_o be_v so_o ingenuous_a as_o to_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n that_o no_o more_o can_v be_v necessary_a for_o christian_n to_o believe_v now_o than_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n a_o conclusion_n of_o great_a importance_n for_o the_o decide_n of_o many_o controversy_n and_o the_o disburden_v of_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n from_o many_o encumbrance_n 70._o the_o doctor_n to_o make_v good_a this_o conclusion_n argue_v further_a thus_o s._n paul_n declare_v to_o the_o ephesian_n the_o whole_a counsel_n of_o god_n touch_v their_o salvation_n therefore_o that_o which_o s._n paul_n do_v not_o declare_v can_v be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o counsel_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o not_o necessary_a and_o again_o s._n paul_n keep_v back_o nothing_o from_o the_o ephesian_n that_o be_v profitable_a therefore_o he_o teach_v they_o all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n 71._o neither_o be_v it_o material_a that_o these_o word_n be_v particular_o direct_v by_o s._n paul_n to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o that_o the_o point_n here_o issuable_a be_v not_o who_o he_o teach_v whether_o priest_n or_o layman_n but_o how_o much_o he_o teach_v and_o whether_o all_o thing_n necessary_a it_o appear_v plain_o out_o of_o the_o text_n and_o i_o wonder_v you_o shall_v read_v it_o so_o negligent_o as_o not_o to_o observe_v it_o that_o though_o he_o speak_v now_o to_o the_o pastor_n yet_o he_o speak_v of_o what_o he_o teach_v not_o only_o they_o but_o also_o the_o laity_n as_o well_o as_o they_o i_o have_v keep_v back_o nothing_o say_v s._n paul_n that_o be_v profitable_a but_o have_v show_v and_o have_v teach_v you_o public_o and_o from_o house_n to_o house_n testify_v i_o pray_v observe_v both_o to_o the_o jew_n and_o also_o to_o the_o greek_n repentance_n towards_o god_n and_o faith_n towards_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o a_o little_a after_o i_o know_v that_o you_o all_o among_o who_o i_o have_v go_v preach_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n shall_v see_v my_o face_n no_o more_o wherefore_o i_o take_v you_o to_o record_v this_o day_n that_o i_o be_o innocent_a from_o the_o blood_n of_o all_o man_n for_o i_o have_v keep_v nothing_o back_o but_o have_v show_v you_o all_o the_o counsel_n of_o god_n and_o again_o remember_v that_o by_o the_o space_n of_o three_o year_n i_o cease_v not_o to_o warn_v every_o one_o night_n and_o day_n with_o tear_n certain_o though_o he_o do_v all_o these_o thing_n to_o the_o pastor_n among_o the_o rest_n nay_o above_o the_o rest_n yet_o without_o controversy_n they_o who_o he_o teach_v public_o and_o from_o house_n to_o house_n the_o jew_n and_o greek_n to_o who_o he_o testify_v i._o e._n preach_v faith_n and_o repentance_n those_o all_o among_o who_o he_o go_v preach_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n those_o every_o one_o who_o for_o three_o year_n together_o he_o warn_v be_v not_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n only_o 72._o neither_o be_v this_o to_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n teach_v christian_n nothing_o but_o their_o creed_n nothing_o of_o the_o
creed_n without_o the_o former_a can_v be_v possible_o guard_v from_o fall_v into_o they_o and_o continue_v obstinate_a in_o they_o nay_o so_o far_o be_v this_o creed_n from_o guard_v they_o from_o these_o mischief_n that_o it_o be_v more_o likely_a to_o ensnare_v they_o into_o they_o by_o seem_v and_o yet_o not_o be_v a_o full_a comprehension_n of_o all_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v apt_a as_o experience_n show_v to_o misguide_v man_n into_o this_o pernicious_a error_n that_o believe_v the_o creed_n they_o believe_v all_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n whereas_o indeed_o they_o do_v not_o so_o now_o upon_o these_o ground_n i_o thus_o conclude_v that_o creed_n which_o have_v great_a commodity_n and_o no_o danger_n will_v certain_o be_v better_a then_o that_o which_o have_v great_a danger_n and_o want_v many_o of_o these_o great_a commodity_n but_o the_o former_a short_a creed_n propose_v by_o i_o i_o believe_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v infallible_a if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a be_v of_o the_o former_a condition_n and_o the_o latter_a that_o be_v the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v of_o the_o latter_a therefore_o the_o former_a if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a will_v without_o controversy_n be_v better_a than_o the_o latter_a 83._o whereas_o you_o say_v if_o the_o apostle_n have_v express_v no_o article_n but_o that_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n she_o must_v have_v teach_v we_o the_o other_o article_n in_o particular_a by_o creed_n or_o other_o mean_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o no_o way_n repugnant_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o which_o follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a have_v do_v better_a service_n to_o the_o church_n though_o they_o have_v never_o make_v this_o creed_n of_o they_o which_o now_o we_o have_v if_o instead_o thereof_o they_o have_v command_v in_o plain_a term_n that_o for_o man_n perpetual_a direction_n in_o the_o faith_n this_o short_a creed_n shall_v be_v teach_v all_o man_n i_o believe_v the_o roman_a church_n shall_v be_v for_o ever_o infallible_a yet_o you_o must_v not_o so_o mistake_v i_o as_o if_o i_o mean_v that_o they_o have_v do_v better_a not_o to_o have_v teach_v the_o church_n the_o substance_n of_o christian_a religion_n for_o then_o the_o church_n not_o have_v learn_v it_o of_o they_o can_v not_o have_v teach_v it_o we_o this_o therefore_o i_o do_v not_o say_v but_o suppose_v they_o have_v write_v these_o scripture_n as_o they_o have_v write_v wherein_o all_o the_o article_n of_o their_o creed_n be_v plain_o deliver_v and_o preach_v that_o doctrine_n which_o they_o do_v preach_v and_o do_v all_o other_o thing_n as_o they_o have_v do_v beside_o the_o compose_v their_o symbol_n i_o say_v if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a they_o have_v do_v a_o work_n infinite_o more_o beneficial_a to_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n if_o they_o have_v never_o compose_v their_o symbol_n which_o be_v but_o a_o imperfect_a comprehension_n of_o the_o necessary_a point_n of_o simple_a belief_n and_o no_o distinctive_a mark_n as_o a_o symbol_n shall_v be_v between_o those_o that_o be_v good_a christian_n and_o those_o that_o be_v not_o so_o but_o instead_o thereof_o have_v deliver_v this_o one_o proposition_n which_o will_v have_v be_v certain_o effectual_a for_o all_o the_o aforesaid_a good_a intent_n and_o purpose_n the_o roman_a church_n shall_v be_v forever_o infallible_a in_o all_o thing_n which_o she_o propose_v as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 84._o whereas_o you_o say_v if_o we_o will_v believe_v we_o have_v all_o in_o the_o creed_n when_o we_o have_v not_o all_o it_o be_v not_o the_o apostle_n fault_n but_o our_o own_o i_o tell_v you_o plain_o if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n i_o know_v not_o who_o it_o shall_v be_v but_o they_o for_o sure_a it_o can_v be_v no_o fault_n in_o i_o to_o follow_v such_o guide_n whether_o soever_o they_o lead_v i_o now_o i_o say_v they_o have_v lead_v i_o into_o this_o persuasion_n because_o they_o have_v give_v i_o great_a reason_n to_o believe_v it_o and_o none_o to_o the_o contrary_n the_o reason_n they_o have_v give_v i_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v because_o it_o be_v apparent_a and_o confess_v they_o do_v propose_v to_o themselves_o in_o compose_v it_o some_o good_a end_n or_o end_n as_o that_o christian_n may_v have_v a_o form_n by_o which_o for_o matter_n of_o faith_n they_o may_v profess_v themselves_o catholic_n so_o putean_n out_o of_o thomas_n aquinas_n that_o the_o faithful_a may_v know_v what_o the_o christian_a people_n be_v to_o believe_v explicit_o so_o vincent_n filiucius_n that_o be_v separate_v into_o divers_a part_n of_o the_o world_n they_o may_v preach_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o that_o that_o may_v serve_v as_o a_o mark_n to_o distinguish_v true_a christian_n from_o infidel_n so_o cardinal_n richlieu_n now_o for_o all_o these_o and_o for_o any_o other_o good_a intent_n i_o say_v it_o will_v be_v plain_o uneffectual_a unless_o it_o contain_v at_o least_o all_o point_n of_o simple_a belief_n which_o be_v in_o ordinary_a course_n necessary_a to_o be_v explicit_o know_v by_o all_o man_n so_o that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n in_o i_o to_o believe_v this_o it_o must_v be_v my_o fault_n to_o believe_v the_o apostle_n wise_a and_o good_a man_n which_o i_o can_v do_v if_o i_o believe_v not_o this_o and_o therefore_o what_o richardus_fw-la de_fw-fr sancto_fw-la victore_fw-la say_v of_o god_n himself_o i_o make_v no_o scruple_n at_o all_o to_o apply_v to_o the_o apostle_n and_o to_o say_v si_fw-mi error_n est_fw-la quod_fw-la credo_fw-la à _fw-la vobis_fw-la deceptus_fw-la sum_fw-la if_o it_o be_v a_o error_n which_o i_o believe_v it_o be_v you_o and_o my_o reverend_a esteem_n of_o you_o and_o your_o action_n that_o have_v lead_v i_o into_o it_o for_o as_o for_o your_o suspicion_n that_o we_o be_v lead_v into_o this_o persuasion_n out_o of_o a_o hope_n that_o we_o may_v the_o better_o maintain_v by_o it_o some_o opinion_n of_o our_o own_o it_o be_v plain_o uncharitable_a i_o know_v no_o opinion_n i_o have_v which_o i_o will_v not_o as_o willing_o forsake_v as_o keep_v if_o i_o can_v see_v sufficient_a reason_n to_o induce_v i_o to_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n i_o shall_v forsake_v it_o neither_o do_v i_o know_v any_o opinion_n i_o hold_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o i_o have_v more_o evident_a ground_n than_o this_o whereupon_o to_o build_v it_o for_o let_v but_o these_o truth_n be_v grant_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v independent_a on_o your_o church_n and_o dependent_a only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o upon_o universal_a tradition_n that_o scripture_n be_v the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n that_o all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v plain_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n let_v i_o say_v these_o most_o certain_a and_o divine_a truth_n be_v lay_v for_o foundation_n and_o let_v our_o superstruction_n be_v consequent_a and_o coherent_a to_o they_o and_o i_o be_o confident_a peace_n will_v be_v restore_v and_o truth_n maintain_v against_o you_o though_o the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v not_o in_o the_o world_n chap._n v._o the_o answer_n to_o the_o five_o chapter_n show_v that_o the_o separation_n of_o protestant_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v upon_o just_a and_o necessary_a cause_n be_v not_o any_o way_n guilty_a of_o schism_n 1._o ad_fw-la §_o 1.2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o in_o the_o seven_o first_o section_n of_o this_o chapter_n there_o be_v many_o thing_n say_v and_o many_o thing_n suppose_v by_o you_o which_o be_v untrue_a and_o deserve_v a_o censure_n as_o 2._o first_o that_o schism_n can_v not_o be_v a_o division_n from_o the_o church_n or_o that_o a_o division_n from_o the_o church_n can_v not_o happen_v unless_o there_o always_o have_v be_v and_o shall_v be_v a_o visible_a church_n which_o assertion_n be_v a_o manifest_a falsehood_n for_o although_o there_o never_o have_v be_v any_o church_n visible_a or_o invisible_a before_o this_o age_n nor_o shall_v be_v ever_o after_o yet_o this_o can_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o a_o schism_n may_v now_o be_v and_o be_v a_o division_n from_o the_o present_a visible_a church_n as_o though_o in_o france_n there_o never_o have_v be_v until_o now_o a_o lawful_a monarch_n nor_o after_o he_o ever_o shall_v be_v yet_o this_o hinder_v not_o but_o that_o now_o there_o may_v be_v a_o rebellion_n and_o that_o rebellion_n may_v be_v a_o insurrection_n against_o sovereign_a authority_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v a_o point_n to_o be_v grant_v by_o all_o christian_n that_o in_o all_o age_n there_o have_v be_v a_o visible_a congregation_n of_o faithful_a people_n which_o proposition_n howsoever_o you_o understand_v it_o be_v not_o absolute_o certain_a but_o if_o you_o mean_v by_o faithful_a as_o it_o be_v plain_a you_o do_v free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o faith_n than_o
in_o particular_a admonish_v that_o for_o so_o small_a a_o cause_n propter_fw-la tam_fw-la modicam_fw-la causam_fw-la he_o shall_v not_o have_v cut_v off_o so_o many_o province_n from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o last_o see_v the_o eccesiastical_a story_n of_o those_o time_n mention_n not_o other_o notable_a example_n of_o any_o such_o schismatical_a presumption_n but_o this_o of_o victor_n certain_o we_o have_v great_a inducement_n to_o imagine_v that_o irenaeus_n in_o this_o place_n by_o you_o quote_v have_v a_o special_a aim_n at_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n once_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o the_o place_n fit_v he_o and_o many_o of_o his_o successor_n as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v make_v purposely_o for_o they_o and_o this_o also_o that_o he_o which_o find_v fault_n with_o they_o who_o separate_v upon_o small_a cause_n imply_v clear_o that_o he_o conceive_v their_o might_n be_v such_o cause_n as_o be_v great_a and_o sufficient_a and_o that_o then_o a_o reformation_n be_v to_o be_v make_v notwithstanding_o any_o danger_n of_o division_n that_o may_v ensue_v upon_o it_o 12._o last_o s._n denis_n of_o alexandria_n say_v indeed_o and_o very_o well_o that_o all_o thing_n shall_v be_v rather_o endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v add_v rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o continuation_n of_o the_o division_n if_o it_o may_v be_v remedy_v but_o then_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o he_o say_v not_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v do_v but_o only_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v or_o suffer_v wherein_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o evil_a of_o sin_n but_o of_o pain_n and_o misery_n not_o of_o tolerate_v either_o error_n or_o sin_n in_o other_o though_o that_o may_v be_v lawful_a much_o less_o of_o join_v with_o other_o for_o quietness_n sake_n which_o only_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o error_n and_o practice_n of_o sin_n but_o of_o suffer_v any_o affliction_n nay_o even_o martyrdom_n in_o our_o own_o person_n rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n omnia_fw-la incommoda_fw-la so_o your_o own_o christophorson_n enforce_v by_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n translate_v dionysius_n his_o word_n all_o misery_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o church_n division_n 13._o ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o this_o paragraph_n you_o tell_v we_o first_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o total_a deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n maintain_v by_o many_o chief_a protestant_n imply_v in_o it_o vast_a absurdity_n or_o rather_o sacrilegious_a blasphemy_n answ_n but_o neither_o do_v the_o protestant_n allege_v by_o you_o maintain_v the_o deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o the_o church_n visibility_n or_o of_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v visible_a neither_o do_v they_o hold_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n have_v fail_v total_o from_o its_o essence_n but_o only_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v into_o many_o corruption_n but_o yet_o not_o to_o nothing_o you_o say_v second_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o cast_v they_o upon_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n be_v a_o desperate_a voluntary_a necessity_n because_o they_o be_v resolve_v not_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o roman_a to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n that_o for_o diverse_a age_n before_o luther_n there_o be_v no_o other_o but_o this_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v but_o to_o divine_a and_o take_v upon_o you_o the_o property_n of_o god_n which_o be_v to_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o men._n for_o why_o i_o pray_v may_v not_o the_o reason_n hereof_o rather_o be_v because_o they_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n as_o scripture_n reason_n antiquity_n that_o all_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o above_o all_o the_o roman_a have_v degenerate_v from_o the_o purity_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o thereupon_o do_v conclude_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n mean_v by_o no_o church_n none_o free_a from_o corruption_n and_o conformable_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la §_o 10._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o repugnance_n but_o in_o word_n only_o between_o these_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n and_o those_o other_o who_o out_o of_o courtesy_n you_o entitle_v in_o your_o 10._o §_o more_o moderate_a protestant_n for_o these_o affirm_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o neither_o deny_v nor_o doubt_n of_o she_o be_v subject_a to_o manifold_a and_o grievous_a corruption_n and_o those_o of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o be_v they_o not_o mitigate_v by_o invincible_a or_o at_o least_o a_o very_a probable_a ignorance_n none_o subject_a to_o they_o can_v be_v save_v and_o they_o on_o the_o other_o side_n deny_v the_o church_n visibility_n yet_o plain_o affirm_v that_o they_o conceive_v very_o good_a hope_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o many_o of_o their_o ignorant_a and_o honest_a forefather_n thus_o declare_v plain_o though_o in_o word_n they_o deny_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o their_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o deny_v the_o perpetuity_n but_o the_o perpetual_a purity_n and_o incorruption_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 17._o ad_fw-la §_o 11._o you_o ask_v to_o what_o congregation_n shall_v a_o man_n have_v recourse_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n if_o upon_o earth_n there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n answ_n if_o some_o one_o christian_a live_v alone_o among_o pagan_n in_o some_o country_n remote_a from_o christendom_n shall_v we_o conceive_v it_o impossible_a for_o this_o man_n to_o be_v save_v because_o he_o can_v have_v recourse_n to_o any_o congregation_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n will_v it_o not_o be_v sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o one_o salvation_n to_o know_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o live_v according_a to_o it_o 18._o obj._n to_o imagine_v a_o company_n of_o man_n believe_v one_o thing_n in_o their_o heart_n and_o with_o their_o mouth_n profess_v the_o contrary_n as_o they_o must_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v for_o if_o they_o have_v profess_v what_o they_o believe_v they_o will_v have_v become_v visible_a be_v to_o dream_v of_o a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n but_o not_o to_o conceive_v aright_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n answ_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v not_o the_o church_n be_v invisible_a and_o yet_o these_o that_o be_v of_o it_o profess_v their_o faith_n no_o say_v you_o their_o profession_n will_v make_v they_o visible_a very_o true_a visible_a in_o the_o place_n where_o and_o in_o the_o time_n when_o they_o live_v and_o to_o those_o person_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v necessary_a occasion_n to_o make_v their_o profession_n but_o not_o visible_a to_o all_o or_o any_o great_a or_o considerable_a part_n of_o the_o world_n while_o they_o live_v much_o less_o conspicuous_a to_o all_o age_n after_o they_o now_o it_o be_v a_o church_n thus_o illustrious_o and_o conspicuous_o visible_a that_o you_o require_v by_o who_o splendour_n all_o man_n may_v be_v direct_v and_o draw_v to_o repair_v to_o she_o for_o the_o affair_n of_o their_o soul_n neither_o be_v it_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n absolute_o but_o this_o degree_n of_o it_o which_o the_o most_o rigid_a protestant_n deny_v which_o be_v plain_a enough_o out_o of_o the_o place_n of_o napper_n cite_v by_o you_o in_o your_o 9_o part._n of_o this_o chap_a where_o his_o word_n be_v god_n have_v withdraw_v his_o visible_a church_n from_o open_a assembly_n to_o the_o heart_n of_o particular_a godly_a man_n and_o this_o church_n which_o have_v not_o open_a assembly_n he_o call_v the_o latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a church_n now_o i_o hope_v papist_n in_o england_n will_v be_v very_o apt_a to_o grant_v man_n may_v be_v so_o far_a latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a as_o not_o to_o profess_v their_o faith_n in_o open_a assembly_n nor_o to_o proclaim_v it_o to_o all_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o not_o deny_v nor_o dissemble_v it_o nor_o deserve_v to_o be_v esteem_v a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n obj._n but_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n can_v but_o make_v a_o church_n visible_a and_o these_o be_v inseparable_a note_n of_o the_o church_n i_o answer_v they_o be_v so_o far_o inseparable_a that_o wheresoever_o they_o be_v there_o a_o church_n be_v but_o not_o so_o but_o that_o in_o some_o case_n there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n where_o these_o note_n be_v not_o again_o these_o note_n will_v make_v the_o church_n visible_a but_o to_o who_o certain_o not_o to_o all_o man_n nor_o to_o most_o man_n but_o to_o they_o only_o to_o who_o
creature_n that_o have_v skill_n in_o astronomy_n for_o as_o all_o astronomer_n be_v man_n but_o all_o man_n be_v not_o astronomer_n and_o therefore_o astronomy_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v put_v into_o the_o definition_n of_o man_n where_o nothing_o shall_v have_v place_n but_o what_o agree_v to_o all_o man_n so_o though_o all_o that_o be_v true_o wise_a that_o be_v wise_a for_o eternity_n will_v believe_v aright_o yet_o many_o may_v believe_v aright_o which_o be_v not_o wise_a i_o can_v wish_v with_o all_o my_o heart_n as_o moses_n do_v that_o all_o the_o lord_n people_n can_v prophesy_v that_o all_o that_o believe_v the_o true_a religion_n be_v able_a according_a to_o s._n peter_n injunction_n to_o give_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o hope_n that_o be_v in_o they_o a_o reason_n why_o they_o hope_v for_o eternal_a happiness_n by_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o any_o other_o neither_o do_v i_o think_v it_o any_o great_a difficulty_n that_o man_n of_o ordinary_a capacity_n if_o they_o will_v give_v their_o mind_n to_o it_o may_v quick_o be_v enable_v to_o do_v so_o but_o shall_v i_o affirm_v that_o all_o true_a believer_n can_v do_v so_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v be_v as_o much_o against_o experience_n and_o modesty_n as_o it_o be_v against_o truth_n and_o charity_n to_o say_v as_o you_o do_v that_o they_o which_o can_v do_v so_o either_o be_v not_o at_o all_o or_o to_o no_o purpose_n true_a believer_n and_o thus_o we_o see_v that_o the_o foundation_n you_o build_v upon_o be_v ruinous_a and_o deceitful_a and_o so_o unfit_a to_o support_v your_o fabric_n that_o they_o destroy_v one_o another_o i_o come_v now_o to_o show_v that_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v protestant_n heretic_n be_v all_o of_o the_o same_o quality_n with_o your_o former_a ground_n which_o i_o will_v do_v by_o oppose_v clear_a and_o satisfy_a answer_n in_o order_n to_o they_o 11._o ad_fw-la §_o 13._o to_o the_o first_o then_o deliver_v by_o you_o §_o 13._o that_o protestant_n must_v be_v heretic_n because_o they_o oppose_v divers_a truth_n propound_v for_o divine_a by_o the_o visible_a church_n i_o answer_v it_o be_v not_o heresy_n to_o oppose_v any_o truth_n propound_v by_o the_o church_n but_o only_o such_o a_o truth_n as_o be_v a_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 2._o the_o doctrine_n which_o protestant_n oppose_v be_v not_o truth_n but_o plain_a and_o impious_a falsehood_n neither_o three_o be_v they_o propound_v as_o truth_n by_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o by_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o that_o a_o corrupt_a part._n 12._o ad_fw-la §_o 14._o the_o next_o argument_n in_o the_o next_o particle_n tell_v we_o that_o every_o error_n against_o any_o doctrine_n reveal_v by_o god_n be_v damnable_a heresy_n now_o either_o protestant_n or_o the_o roman_a church_n must_v err_v against_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o the_o roman_a church_n we_o grant_v perforce_o do_v not_o err_v damnable_o neither_o can_v she_o because_o she_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n which_o we_o you_o say_v confess_n can_v err_v damnable_o therefore_o protestant_n must_v err_v against_o god_n word_n and_o consequent_o be_v guilty_a of_o formal_a heresy_n whereunto_o i_o answer_v plain_o that_o there_o be_v in_o this_o argument_n almost_o as_o many_o falsehood_n as_o assertion_n for_o neither_o be_v every_o error_n against_o any_o doctrine_n reveal_v by_o god_n a_o damnable_a heresy_n unless_o it_o be_v reveal_v public_o and_o plain_o with_o a_o command_n that_o all_o shall_v believe_v it_o 2._o d._n potter_n no_o where_o grant_n that_o the_o error_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o in_o themselves_o damnable_a though_o he_o hope_n by_o accident_n they_o may_v not_o actual_o damn_v some_o man_n among_o you_o and_o this_o you_o yourself_o confess_v in_o divers_a place_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o allow_v no_o hope_n of_o salvation_n to_o those_o among_o you_o who_o ignorance_n can_v excuse_v 3._o you_o beg_v the_o question_n twice_o in_o take_v for_o grant_v first_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o true_o catholic_n church_n which_o without_o much_o favour_n can_v hardly_o pass_v for_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o again_o that_o the_o catholic_n church_n can_v fall_v into_o any_o error_n of_o itself_o damnable_a for_o it_o may_v do_v so_o and_o still_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n if_o it_o retain_v those_o truth_n which_o may_v be_v a_o antidote_n against_o the_o malignity_n of_o this_o error_n to_o those_o that_o hold_v it_o out_o of_o a_o simple_a un-affected_n ignorance_n last_o though_o the_o thing_n be_v true_a yet_o i_o may_v well_o require_v some_o proof_n of_o it_o from_o you_o that_o either_o protestant_n or_o the_o roman_a church_n must_v err_v against_o god_n word_n for_o if_o their_o contradiction_n be_v your_o only_a reason_n than_o also_o you_o or_o the_o dominicans_n must_v be_v heretic_n because_o you_o contradict_v one_o another_o as_o much_o as_o protestant_n and_o papist_n 13._o ad_fw-la §_o 15._o the_o three_o argument_n pretend_v that_o you_o have_v show_v already_o that_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v judge_n of_o controversy_n and_o therefore_o infallible_a from_o whence_o you_o suppose_v that_o it_o follow_v that_o to_o oppose_v she_o be_v to_o oppose_v god_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o you_o have_v say_v only_o and_o not_o show_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v judge_n of_o controversy_n and_o indeed_o how_o can_v she_o be_v judge_n of_o they_o if_o she_o can_v decide_v they_o and_o how_o can_v she_o decide_v they_o if_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o she_o be_v judge_n of_o they_o that_o which_o be_v question_v itself_o can_v with_o any_o sense_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v fit_a to_o decide_v other_o question_n and_o much_o less_o this_o question_n whether_o it_o have_v authority_n to_o judge_v and_o decide_v all_o question_n 2._o if_o she_o be_v judge_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o she_o be_v infallible_a for_o we_o have_v many_o judge_n in_o our_o court_n of_o judicature_n yet_o none_o infallible_a nay_o you_o can_v with_o any_o modesty_n deny_v that_o every_o man_n in_o the_o world_n ought_v to_o judge_v for_o himself_o what_o religion_n be_v true_a and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o every_o man_n be_v infallible_a 3._o if_o the_o church_n be_v suppose_v infallible_a yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o much_o less_o manifest_o that_o to_o oppose_v her_o declaration_n be_v to_o oppose_v god_n unless_o you_o suppose_v also_o that_o as_o she_o be_v infallible_a so_o by_o her_o opposer_n she_o be_v know_v or_o believe_v to_o be_v so_o last_o if_o all_o this_o be_v true_a as_o it_o be_v all_o most_o false_a yet_o be_v it_o to_o little_a purpose_n see_v you_o have_v omit_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v the_o roman_n 14._o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o instead_o of_o a_o four_o argument_n this_o be_v present_v to_o we_o that_o if_o luther_n be_v a_o heretic_n than_o they_o that_o agree_v with_o he_o must_v be_v so_o and_o that_o luther_n be_v a_o formal_a heretic_n you_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o this_o most_o formal_a syllogism_n to_o say_v the_o visible_a church_n be_v not_o universal_a be_v proper_o a_o heresy_n but_o luther_n reformation_n be_v not_o universal_a therefore_o it_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o formal_a heresy_n whereunto_o i_o answer_v first_o to_o the_o first_o part_n that_o it_o be_v no_o way_n impossible_a that_o luther_n have_v he_o be_v the_o inventor_n and_o first_o broacher_n of_o a_o false_a doctrine_n as_o he_o be_v not_o may_v have_v be_v a_o formal_a heretic_n and_o yet_o that_o those_o who_o follow_v he_o may_v be_v only_o so_o material_o and_o improper_o and_o indeed_o no_o heretic_n your_o own_o man_n out_o of_o s._n augustin_n distinguish_v between_o haeretici_fw-la &_o haereticorum_fw-la sequaces_fw-la and_o you_o yourself_o though_o you_o pronounce_v the_o leader_n among_o the_o arrian_n formal_a heretic_n yet_o confess_v that_o salvian_n be_v at_o least_o doubtful_a whether_o these_o arrian_n who_o in_o simplicity_n follow_v their_o teacher_n may_v not_o be_v excuse_v by_o ignorance_n and_o about_o this_o suspension_n of_o his_o you_fw-mi also_o seem_v suspend_v for_o you_o neither_o approve_v nor_o condemn_v it_o second_o to_o the_o second_o part_n i_o say_v that_o have_v you_o not_o presume_v upon_o our_o ignorance_n in_o logic_n as_o well_o as_o metaphysic_n and_o school_n divinity_n you_o will_v never_o have_v obtrude_v upon_o we_o this_o rope_n of_o sand_n for_o a_o formal_a syllogism_n it_o be_v even_o cousin-german_a to_o this_o to_o deny_v the_o resurrection_n be_v proper_o a_o heresy_n but_o luther_n reformation_n be_v not_o universal_a therefore_o it_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o formal_a heresy_n or_o to_o this_o to_o say_v the_o visible_a church_n be_v not_o universal_a
be_v proper_o a_o heresy_n but_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n at_o the_o beginning_n be_v not_o universal_a therefore_o it_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o formal_a heresy_n for_o as_o he_o who_o reformation_n be_v but_o particular_a may_v yet_o not_o deny_v the_o resurrection_n so_o may_v he_o also_o not_o deny_v the_o church_n universality_n and_o as_o the_o apostle_n who_o preach_v the_o gospel_n in_o the_o beginning_n do_v believe_v the_o church_n universal_a though_o their_o preach_n at_o the_o beginning_n be_v not_o so_o so_o luther_n also_o might_n and_o do_v believe_v the_o church_n universal_a though_o his_o reformation_n be_v but_o particular_a i_o say_v he_o do_v believe_v it_o universal_a even_o in_o your_o own_o sense_n that_o be_v universal_a de_fw-fr jure_fw-la though_o not_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la and_o as_o for_o universality_n in_o fact_n he_o believe_v the_o church_n much_o more_o universal_a than_o his_o reformation_n for_o he_o do_v conceive_v as_o appear_v by_o 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than_o africa_n so_o be_v he_o in_o the_o wrong_n if_o he_o think_v that_o of_o necessity_n it_o always_o must_v be_v so_o but_o most_o palpable_o mistake_v in_o conceive_v that_o it_o be_v then_o spread_v over_o the_o whole_a earth_n and_o know_v to_o all_o nation_n which_o if_o passion_n do_v not_o trouble_v you_o and_o make_v you_o forget_v how_o late_o almost_o half_a the_o world_n be_v discover_v and_o in_o what_o estate_n it_o be_v then_o find_v you_o will_v very_o easy_o see_v and_o confess_v 16._o the_o donatist_n may_v do_v ill_a in_o call_v the_o chair_n of_o rome_n the_o chair_n of_o pestilence_n and_o the_o roman_a church_n a_o harlot_n and_o yet_o the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v alter_v protestant_n may_v do_v well_o to_o do_v so_o and_o therefore_o though_o s._n austin_n may_v perhaps_o have_v reason_n to_o persecute_v the_o donatist_n for_o detract_n from_o the_o church_n and_o call_v her_o harlot_n when_o she_o be_v not_o so_o yet_o you_o may_v have_v none_o to_o threaten_v d._n potter_n that_o you_o will_v persecute_v he_o as_o the_o application_n of_o this_o place_n intimate_v you_o will_v if_o it_o be_v in_o your_o power_n plain_o show_v that_o you_o be_v a_o curse_a cow_n though_o your_o horn_n be_v short_a see_v the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o now_o what_o it_o be_v in_o s._n augustine_n time_n and_o hereof_o the_o conclusion_n of_o your_o own_o book_n afford_v we_o a_o very_a pregnant_a testimony_n where_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o saint_n austin_n that_o one_o grand_a impediment_n which_o among_o many_o keep_v the_o seduce_a follower_n of_o the_o faction_n of_o donatus_n from_o the_o church_n communion_n be_v a_o visible_a calumny_n raise_v against_o the_o catholic_n that_o they_o do_v set_v some_o strange_a thing_n upon_o their_o altar_n to_o how_o many_o say_v saint_n austin_n do_v the_o report_n of_o ill_a tongue_n shut_v up_o the_o way_n to_o enter_v who_o say_v that_o we_o put_v i_o know_v not_o what_o upon_o the_o altar_n out_o of_o detestation_n of_o the_o calumny_n and_o just_a indignation_n against_o it_o he_o will_v not_o so_o much_o as_o name_v the_o impiety_n wherewith_o they_o be_v charge_v and_o therefore_o by_o a_o rhetorical_a figure_n call_v it_o i_o know_v not_o what_o but_o compare_v with_o he_o optatus_n write_v of_o the_o same_o matter_n and_o you_o shall_v plain_o perceive_v that_o this_o i_o know_v not_o what_o pretend_v to_o be_v set_v upon_o the_o altar_n be_v indeed_o a_o picture_n which_o the_o donatist_n know_v how_o detestable_a a_o thing_n it_o be_v to_o all_o christian_n at_o that_o time_n to_o set_v up_o any_o picture_n in_o a_o church_n to_o worship_v they_o as_o your_o new_a fashion_n be_v bruit_v abroad_o to_o be_v do_v in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o what_o answer_n do_v s._n austin_n and_o optatus_n make_v to_o this_o accusation_n do_v they_o confess_v and_o maintain_v it_o do_v they_o say_v as_o you_o will_v now_o it_o be_v true_a we_o do_v set_v picture_n upon_o our_o altar_n and_o that_o not_o only_o for_o ornament_n or_o memory_n but_o for_o worship_n also_o but_o we_o do_v well_o to_o do_v so_o and_o this_o ought_v not_o to_o trouble_v you_o or_o affright_v you_o from_o our_o communion_n what_o other_o answer_n your_o church_n can_v now_o make_v to_o such_o a_o objection_n be_v very_o hard_a to_o imagine_v and_o therefore_o be_v your_o doctrine_n the_o same_o with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n in_o this_o point_n they_o must_v have_v answer_v so_o likewise_o but_o they_o to_o the_o contrary_n not_o only_o deny_v the_o crime_n but_o abhor_v and_o detest_v it_o to_o little_a purpose_n therefore_o do_v you_o hunt_v after_o these_o poor_a shadow_n of_o resemblance_n between_o we_o and_o the_o donatist_n unless_o you_o can_v show_v a_o exact_a resemblance_n between_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o ancient_n which_o see_v by_o this_o and_o many_o other_o particular_n it_o be_v demonstrate_v to_o be_v impossible_a that_o church_n which_o be_v then_o a_o virgin_n may_v be_v now_o a_o harlot_n and_o that_o which_o be_v detraction_n in_o the_o donatist_n may_v be_v in_o protestant_n a_o just_a accusation_n 18._o but_o the_o main_a point_n you_o say_v be_v that_o since_o luther_n reform_a church_n be_v not_o in_o be_v for_o divers_a century_n before_o luther_n and_o yet_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n they_o must_v of_o necessity_n affirm_v heretical_o with_o the_o donatist_n that_o the_o true_a unspotted_a church_n of_o christ_n perish_v and_o that_o she_o which_o remain_v on_o earth_n be_v o_o blasphemy_n a_o harlot_n by_o which_o word_n it_o seem_v you_o be_v resolute_a perpetual_o to_o confound_v true_a and_o unspotted_a and_o to_o put_v no_o difference_n between_o a_o corrupt_a church_n and_o none_o at_o all_o but_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o make_v no_o difference_n between_o a_o disease_a and_o a_o dead_a man_n nay_o what_o be_v it_o but_o to_o contradict_v yourselves_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o sin_n be_v as_o great_a stain_n and_o spot_n and_o deformity_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n as_o error_n and_o confess_v your_o church_n to_o be_v a_o congregation_n of_o man_n whereof_o every_o particular_a not_o one_o except_v and_o consequent_o the_o generality_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o collection_n of_o they_o be_v pollute_v and_o defile_v with_o sin_n 19_o you_o ask_v how_o can_v the_o church_n more_o true_o be_v say_v to_o perish_v than_o when_o she_o be_v permit_v to_o maintain_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n i_o answer_v she_o may_v be_v more_o true_o say_v to_o perish_v when_o she_o be_v not_o only_o permit_v to_o do_v so_o but_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la do_v maintain_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n again_o she_o may_v be_v more_o true_o say_v to_o perish_v when_o she_o fall_v into_o a_o heresy_n which_o be_v not_o only_o damnable_a in_o itself_o and_o ex_fw-la natura_fw-la rei_fw-la as_o you_o speak_v but_o such_o a_o heresy_n the_o belief_n of_o who_o contrary_a truth_n be_v necessary_a not_o only_a necessitate_v praecepti_fw-la but_o medii_fw-la and_o therefore_o the_o heresy_n so_o absolute_o and_o indispensable_o destructive_a of_o salvation_n that_o no_o ignorance_n can_v excuse_v it_o nor_o any_o general_a repentance_n without_o a_o dereliction_n of_o it_o can_v beg_v a_o pardon_n for_o it_o such_o a_o heresy_n if_o the_o church_n shall_v fall_v into_o it_o may_v be_v more_o true_o say_v to_o perish_v than_o if_o it_o fall_v only_o into_o some_o heresy_n of_o its_o own_o nature_n damnable_a for_o in_o that_o state_n all_o the_o member_n of_o it_o without_o exception_n all_o without_o mercy_n must_v needs_o perish_v for_o ever_o in_o this_o although_o those_o that_o may_v see_v the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o can_v upon_o any_o good_a ground_n
hope_v for_o salvation_n yet_o without_o question_n it_o may_v send_v many_o soul_n to_o heaven_n who_o will_v glad_o have_v embrace_v the_o truth_n but_o that_o they_o want_v mean_n to_o discover_v it_o three_o and_o last_o she_o may_v yet_o more_o true_o be_v say_v to_o perish_v when_o she_o apostate_n from_o christ_n absolute_o or_o reject_v even_o those_o truth_n out_o of_o which_o her_o heresy_n may_v be_v reform_v as_o if_o she_o shall_v direct_o deny_v jesus_n to_o be_v the_o christ_n or_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n towards_o which_o state_n of_o perdition_n it_o may_v well_o be_v fear_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v somewhat_o incline_v by_o her_o superinduce_n upon_o the_o rest_n of_o her_o error_n the_o doctrine_n of_o her_o own_o infallibility_n whereby_o her_o error_n be_v make_v incurable_a and_o by_o she_o pretend_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v interpret_v according_a to_o her_o doctrine_n and_o not_o her_o doctrine_n to_o be_v judge_v of_o by_o scripture_n whereby_o she_o make_v the_o scripture_n uneffectual_a for_o her_o reformation_n 20._o ad_fw-la §_o 18._o i_o be_v very_o glad_a when_o i_o hear_v you_o say_v the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o ancient_a father_n do_v assign_v separation_n from_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n for_o i_o be_v in_o good_a hope_n that_o no_o christian_n will_v so_o belie_v the_o scripture_n as_o to_o say_v so_o of_o it_o unless_o he_o can_v have_v produce_v some_o one_o text_n at_o least_o wherein_o this_o be_v plain_o affirm_v or_o from_o whence_o it_o may_v be_v undoubted_o and_o undeniable_o collect_v for_o assure_v yourself_o good_a sir_n it_o be_v a_o very_a heinous_a crime_n to_o say_v thus_o say_v the_o lord_n when_o the_o lord_n do_v not_o say_v so_o i_o expect_v therefore_o some_o scripture_n shall_v have_v be_v allege_v wherein_o it_o shall_v have_v be_v say_v whosoever_o separate_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o heretic_n or_o the_o 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they_o last_o wise_a man_n especial_o be_v assist_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o wisdom_n and_o such_o as_o know_v that_o a_o doubtful_a and_o questionable_a guide_n be_v for_o man_n direction_n as_o good_a as_o none_o at_o all_o and_o after_o all_o these_o supposition_n which_o i_o presume_v no_o good_a christian_n will_v call_v into_o question_n be_v it_o possible_a that_o any_o christian_a heart_n can_v believe_v that_o not_o one_o among_o they_o all_o shall_v ad_fw-la rei_fw-la memoriam_fw-la write_v this_o necessary_a doctrine_n plain_o so_o much_o as_o once_o certain_o in_o all_o reason_n they_o have_v provide_v much_o better_o for_o the_o good_a of_o christian_n if_o they_o have_v write_v this_o though_o they_o have_v write_v nothing_o else_o methinks_v the_o evangelist_n undertake_v to_o write_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n can_v not_o possible_o have_v omit_v any_o one_o of_o they_o this_o most_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n have_v they_o know_v it_o necessary_a s._n luke_n especial_o who_o plain_o profess_v that_o his_o intent_n be_v to_o write_v all_o thing_n necessary_a methinks_v s._n paul_n write_v to_o the_o roman_n can_v not_o but_o have_v congratulate_v this_o their_o privilege_n to_o they_o methinks_v instead_o of_o say_v your_o faith_n be_v speak_v of_o all_o the_o world_n over_o which_o you_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v very_o proud_a of_o for_o he_o say_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n to_o the_o thessalonian_o he_o can_v not_o have_v fail_v to_o have_v tell_v they_o once_o at_o least_o in_o plain_a term_n that_o their_o faith_n be_v the_o rule_n for_o all_o the_o world_n for_o ever_o but_o then_o sure_o he_o will_v have_v forbear_v to_o put_v they_o in_o fear_n of_o a_o impossibility_n as_o he_o do_v in_o his_o eleven_o chap._n that_o they_o also_o nay_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o gentile_n if_o they_o do_v not_o look_v to_o their_o stand_n may_v fall_v away_o to_o infidelity_n as_o the_o jew_n have_v do_v methinks_v in_o all_o his_o other_o epistle_n at_o least_o in_o some_o at_o least_o in_o one_o of_o they_o he_o can_v not_o have_v fail_v to_o have_v give_v the_o world_n this_o direction_n have_v he_o know_v it_o to_o be_v a_o true_a one_o that_o all_o man_n be_v to_o be_v guide_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o none_o to_o separate_v from_o it_o under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n methinks_v write_v so_o often_o of_o heretic_n and_o antichrist_n he_o shall_v have_v give_v the_o world_n this_o as_o you_o pretend_v only_o sure_a preservative_n from_o they_o how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o s._n peter_n write_v two_o catholic_n epistle_n mention_v his_o own_o departure_n write_v to_o preserve_v christian_n in_o the_o faith_n shall_v in_o neither_o of_o they_o commend_v they_o to_o the_o guidance_n of_o his_o pretend_a successor_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o s._n james_n and_o s._n judas_n in_o their_o catholic_n epistle_n shall_v not_o give_v this_o catholic_n direction_n methinks_v s._n john_n instead_o of_o say_v he_o that_o believe_v that_o jesus_n be_v the_o christ_n be_v bear_v of_o god_n the_o force_n of_o which_o direction_n your_o gloss_n do_v quite_o enervate_a and_o make_v unavailable_a to_o discern_v who_o be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n shall_v have_v say_v he_o that_o adhere_v to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o live_v according_a to_o it_o he_o be_v a_o good_a christian_a and_o by_o this_o mark_v you_o shall_v know_v he_o what_o man_n not_o quite_o out_o of_o his_o wit_n if_o he_o consider_v as_o he_o shall_v the_o pretend_a necessity_n of_o this_o doctrine_n that_o without_o the_o belief_n hereof_o no_o man_n ordinary_o can_v be_v save_v can_v possible_o force_v himself_o to_o conceive_v that_o all_o these_o good_a and_o holy_a man_n so_o desirous_a of_o man_n salvation_n and_o so_o well_o assure_v of_o it_o as_o it_o be_v pretend_v shall_v be_v so_o deep_o and_o affect_o silent_a in_o it_o and_o not_o one_o say_v it_o plain_o so_o much_o as_o once_o but_o leave_v it_o to_o be_v collect_v from_o uncertain_a principle_n by_o many_o more_o uncertain_a consequence_n certain_o he_o that_o can_v judge_v so_o uncharitable_o of_o they_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o he_o censure_v other_o inferior_a servant_n of_o christ_n as_o atheist_n and_o hypocrite_n and_o what_o he_o please_v plain_a place_n therefore_o i_o do_v and_o have_v reason_n to_o look_v for_o when_o i_o hear_v you_o say_v the_o holy_a scripture_n assign_v separation_n from_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n but_o instead_o hereof_o what_o have_v you_o bring_v we_o but_o mere_a impertinence_n s._n john_n say_v of_o some_o who_o pretend_v to_o be_v christian_n and_o be_v not_o so_o and_o therefore_o when_o it_o be_v for_o their_o advantage_n forsake_v their_o profession_n they_o go_v out_o from_o we_o but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o we_o for_o if_o they_o have_v be_v of_o we_o they_o will_v no_o doubt_n have_v continue_v with_o we_o of_o some_o who_o before_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n to_o the_o contrary_a be_v persuade_v and_o according_o teach_v that_o the_o convert_v gentile_n be_v to_o keep_v the_o law_n of_o moses_n it_o be_v say_v in_o the_o act_n some_o who_o go_v out_o from_o we_o and_o again_o s._n paul_n in_o the_o same_o book_n forewarn_v the_o ephesian_n that_o out_o of_o they_o shall_v arise_v man_n speak_v perverse_a thing_n and_o from_o these_o place_n which_o it_o seem_v be_v the_o plain_a you_o have_v you_o collect_v that_o separation_n from_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v assign_v by_o scripture_n as_o a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n which_o be_v certain_o a_o strange_a and_o unheard_a of_o strain_n of_o logic_n unless_o you_o will_v say_v that_o every_o text_n wherein_o it_o be_v say_v that_o some_o body_n go_v
will_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o these_o bishop_n may_v refuse_v to_o do_v what_o he_o require_v to_o be_v do_v lawful_o if_o the_o person_n be_v unworthy_a if_o worthy_a unlawful_o indeed_o but_o yet_o the_o facto_fw-la they_o may_v refuse_v and_o in_o case_n they_o shall_v do_v so_o whether_o just_o or_o unjust_o neither_o the_o king_n himself_o nor_o any_o body_n else_o will_v esteem_v the_o person_n bishop_n upon_o the_o king_n designation_n whether_o many_o pope_n though_o they_o be_v not_o consecrate_a bishop_n by_o any_o temporal_a prince_n yet_o may_v not_o or_o do_v not_o receive_v authority_n from_o the_o emperor_n to_o exercise_v their_o episcopal_a function_n in_o this_o or_o that_o place_n and_o whether_o the_o emperor_n have_v not_o authority_n upon_o their_o desert_n to_o deprive_v they_o of_o their_o jurisdiction_n by_o imprisonment_n or_o banishment_n whether_o protestant_n do_v indeed_o pretend_v that_o their_o reformation_n be_v universal_a whether_o in_o say_v the_o donatists_n sect_n be_v confine_v to_o africa_n you_o do_v not_o forget_v yourself_o and_o contradict_v what_o you_o say_v above_o in_o §_o 17._o of_o this_o chapter_n where_o you_o tell_v we_o they_o have_v some_o of_o their_o sect_n reside_v in_o rome_n whether_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o none_o can_v admit_v of_o bishop_n willing_o but_o those_o that_o hold_v they_o of_o divine_a institution_n whether_o they_o may_v not_o be_v willing_a to_o have_v they_o conceive_v that_o way_n of_o government_n the_o best_a though_o not_o absolute_o necessary_a whether_o all_o those_o protestant_n that_o conceive_v the_o distinction_n between_o priest_n and_o bishop_n not_o to_o be_v of_o divine_a institution_n be_v schismatical_a and_o heretical_a for_o think_v so_o whether_o your_o form_n of_o ordain_v bishop_n and_o priest_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o true_a church_n whether_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n differ_v essential_o from_o your_o form_n whether_o in_o say_v that_o the_o true_a church_n can_v subsist_v without_o undoubted_a true_a bishop_n and_o priest_n you_o have_v not_o overthrow_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o own_o church_n wherein_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o plain_o impossible_a that_o any_o man_n shall_v be_v so_o much_o as_o moral_o certain_a either_o of_o his_o own_o priesthood_n or_o any_o other_o man_n last_o whether_o any_o one_o kind_n of_o these_o external_a form_n and_o order_n and_o government_n be_v so_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n but_o that_o they_o may_v not_o be_v diverse_a in_o diverse_a place_n and_o that_o a_o good_a and_o peaceable_a christian_a may_v and_o aught_o to_o submit_v himself_o to_o the_o government_n of_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v whatsoever_o it_o be_v all_o these_o question_n will_v be_v necessary_a to_o be_v discuss_v for_o the_o clear_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o minor_a proposition_n of_o your_o former_a syllogism_n and_o your_o proof_n of_o it_o and_o i_o will_v promise_v to_o debate_v they_o fair_o with_o you_o if_o first_o you_o will_v bring_v some_o better_a proof_n of_o the_o major_n that_o want_v of_o succession_n be_v a_o certain_a note_n of_o heresy_n which_o for_o the_o present_n remain_v both_o unprove_v and_o unprobable_a 40._o obj._n you_o say_v the_o father_n assign_v succession_n as_o one_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n answ_n i_o confess_v they_o do_v urge_v tradition_n as_o a_o argument_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o doctrine_n and_o of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o the_o contrary_a and_o thus_o far_o they_o agree_v with_o you_o but_o now_o see_v the_o difference_n they_o urge_v it_o not_o against_o all_o heretic_n that_o ever_o shall_v be_v but_o against_o they_o who_o reject_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o scripture_n for_o no_o other_o reason_n but_o because_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o their_o doctrine_n and_o corrupt_v other_o part_n with_o their_o addition_n and_o detraction_n and_o pervert_v the_o remainder_n with_o divers_a absurd_a interpretation_n so_o tertullian_n not_o a_o leaf_n before_o the_o word_n by_o you_o cite_v nay_o they_o urge_v it_o against_o they_o who_o when_o they_o be_v confute_v out_o of_o scripture_n fall_v to_o accuse_v the_o scripture_n themselves_o as_o if_o they_o be_v not_o right_a and_o come_v not_o from_o good_a authority_n as_o if_o they_o be_v various_a one_o from_o another_o and_o as_o if_o truth_n can_v not_o be_v find_v out_o of_o they_o by_o those_o who_o know_v not_o tradition_n for_o that_o it_o be_v not_o deliver_v in_o writing_n they_o do_v mean_a whole_o but_o by_o word_n of_o mouth_n and_o that_o thereupon_o paul_n also_o say_v we_o speak_v wisdom_n among_o the_o perfect_a so_o irenaeus_n in_o the_o very_a next_o chapter_n before_o that_o which_o you_o allege_v against_o these_o man_n be_v thus_o necessitate_v to_o do_v so_o they_o do_v urge_v tradition_n but_o what_o or_o who_o tradition_n be_v it_o certain_o no_o other_o but_o the_o joint_a tradition_n of_o all_o the_o apostolic_a church_n with_o one_o mouth_n and_o one_o voice_n teach_v the_o same_o doctrine_n or_o if_o for_o brevity_n sake_n they_o produce_v the_o tradition_n of_o any_o one_o church_n yet_o be_v it_o apparent_a that_o that_o one_o be_v then_o in_o conjunction_n with_o all_o the_o rest_n irenaeus_n tertullian_n origen_n testify_v as_o much_o in_o the_o word_n cite_v and_o s._n austin_n in_o the_o place_n before_o allege_v by_o i_o this_o tradition_n they_o do_v urge_v against_o these_o man_n and_o in_o a_o time_n in_o comparison_n of_o we_o almost_o contiguous_a to_o the_o apostle_n so_o near_o that_o one_o they_o irenaeus_n be_v scholar_n to_o one_o who_o be_v scholar_n to_o s._n john_n the_o apostle_n tertullian_n and_o origen_n be_v not_o a_o age_n remove_v from_o he_o and_o the_o last_o of_o they_o all_o little_o more_o than_o a_o age_n from_o they_o yet_o after_o all_o this_o they_o urge_v it_o not_o as_o a_o demonstration_n but_o only_o as_o a_o very_a probable_a argument_n far_o great_a than_o any_o their_o adversary_n can_v oppose_v against_o it_o so_o tertullian_n in_o the_o place_n above_o quote_v §_o 5._o how_o be_v it_o likely_a that_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a church_n shall_v err_v in_o one_o faith_n it_o shall_v be_v shall_v have_v err_v into_o one_o faith_n and_o this_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o this_o argument_n as_o the_o father_n urge_v it_o now_o if_o you_o have_v to_o deal_v with_o we_o who_o question_v no_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v not_o ancient_o question_v by_o some_o who_o you_o yourselves_o esteem_v good_a catholic_n nay_o who_o refuse_v not_o to_o be_v try_v by_o your_o own_o canon_n your_o own_o translation_n who_o in_o interpret_n scripture_n be_v content_a to_o allow_v of_o all_o those_o rule_n which_o you_o propose_v only_o except_o that_o we_o will_v not_o allow_v you_o to_o be_v our_o judge_n if_o you_o will_v come_v fifteen_o hundred_o year_n after_o the_o apostle_n a_o fair_a time_n for_o the_o pure_a church_n to_o gather_v much_o dross_n and_o corruption_n and_o for_o the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n to_o bring_v its_o work_n to_o some_o perfection_n which_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n begin_v to_o work_v if_o i_o say_v you_o will_v come_v thus_o long_o after_o and_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o single_a tradition_n of_o one_o of_o these_o church_n be_v now_o catholic_n to_o itself_o alone_o and_o heretical_a to_o all_o the_o rest_n nay_o not_o only_o with_o her_o ancient_a original_a tradition_n but_o also_o with_o her_o post-nate_a and_o introduce_v definition_n and_o these_o as_o we_o pretend_v repugnant_a to_o scripture_n and_o ancient_a tradition_n and_o all_o this_o to_o decline_v a_o indifferent_a trial_n by_o scripture_n under_o pretence_n wherein_o also_o you_o agree_v with_o the_o calumny_n of_o the_o old_a heretic_n that_o all_o necessary_a truth_n can_v be_v find_v in_o they_o without_o recourse_n to_o tradition_n if_o i_o say_v notwithstanding_o all_o these_o difference_n you_o will_v still_o be_v urge_v we_o with_o this_o argument_n as_o the_o very_a same_o and_o of_o the_o same_o force_n with_o that_o wherewith_o the_o forementioned_a father_n urge_v the_o old_a heretic_n certain_o this_o must_v needs_o proceed_v from_o a_o confidence_n you_o have_v not_o only_o that_o we_o have_v no_o school-divinity_n nor_o metaphysic_n but_o no_o logic_n or_o common_a sense_n that_o we_o be_v but_o picture_n of_o man_n and_o have_v the_o definition_n of_o rational_a creature_n give_v we_o in_o vain_a 41._o but_o now_o suppose_v i_o shall_v be_v liberal_a to_o you_o and_o grant_v what_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o father_n make_v succession_n a_o certain_a and_o perpetual_a mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n i_o beseech_v you_o what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o what_o that_o want_v of_o succession_n be_v a_o certain_a sign_n of_o a_o heretical_a company_n true_o
err_v person_n that_o lead_v good_a life_n shall_v be_v judge_v of_o charitable_o c._n 7.33_o a_o man_n may_v learn_v of_o the_o church_n to_o confute_v its_o error_n c._n 3.40_o we_o do_v well_o to_o forsake_v the_o roman_a church_n for_o her_o error_n though_o we_o afterward_o may_v err_v out_o of_o it_o c._n 5.63_o 64_o 65_o 67_o 87_o 92._o we_o must_v not_o adhere_v to_o a_o church_n in_o profess_v the_o least_o error_n lest_o we_o shall_v not_o profess_v with_o her_o necessary_a doctrine_n c._n 3.56_o the_o example_n of_o those_o that_o forsake_v popish_a error_n have_v deny_v necessary_a truth_n no_o argument_n against_o protestant_n c._n 3.63_o external_n communion_n of_o a_o church_n may_v be_v leave_v without_o leave_v a_o church_n c._n 5.32_o 45_o 47._o f._n whether_o faith_n be_v destroy_v by_o deny_v a_o truth_n testify_v by_o god_n ans_fw-fr pref._n 25._o c._n 6.49_o c._n 7.19_o the_o object_n of_o faith_n of_o two_o sort_n essential_a and_o occasional_a c._n 4.3_o certainty_n of_o faith_n less_o than_o the_o high_a degree_n may_v please_v god_n and_o save_v a_o man_n c._n 1.8_o &_o 6.3_o 4_o 5._o i'faith_o less_o than_o infallible_o certain_a may_v resist_v temptation_n &_o difficulty_n c._n 6.5_o there_o may_v be_v faith_n where_o the_o church_n and_o its_o infallibility_n beget_v it_o not_o c._n 2.49_o faith_n do_v not_o go_v before_o scripture_n but_o follow_v its_o efficacy_n c._n 2.48_o protestant_n have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o know_v the_o certainty_n of_o their_o faith_n c._n 2.152_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n the_o last_o resolution_n of_o faith_n be_v into_o motive_n of_o credibility_n c._n 2.154_o the_o father_n declare_v their_o judgement_n of_o article_n but_o do_v not_o require_v their_o declaration_n to_o be_v receive_v under_o anathema_n c._n 4.18_o protestant_n do_v not_o forsake_v the_o church_n though_o they_o forksook_v its_o error_n c._n 3.11_o sufficient_a foundation_n for_o faith_n without_o infallible_a certainty_n c._n 6.6_o 45._o what_o protestant_n mean_v by_o fundamental_a doctrine_n c._n 4.52_o in_o what_o sense_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n err_v not_o fundamental_o ans_fw-fr pref._n 20._o to_o be_v unerring_a in_o fundamental_o can_v be_v say_v of_o no_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n c._n 3.55_o to_o say_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o church_n not_o err_v in_o fundamental_o be_v to_o say_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o church_n c._n 3.55_o a_o church_n be_v not_o safe_a though_o retain_v fundamental_o when_o it_o build_v hay_n and_o stubble_n on_o the_o foundation_n and_o neglect_v to_o reform_v her_o error_n c._n 5.61_o ignorance_n of_o what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v fundamental_a do_v not_o make_v it_o uncertain_a whether_o we_o do_v not_o err_v fundamental_o or_o differ_v in_o fundamental_o among_o ourselves_o c._n 7.14_o g._n the_o four_o gospel_n contain_v all_o necessary_a doctrine_n c._n 4.40_o 41_o 42_o 43._o a_o infallible_a guide_n not_o necessary_a for_o avoid_v heresy_n c._n 2.127_o the_o apostolic_a church_n a_o infallible_a guide_n to_o which_o we_o may_v resort_v c._n 3.69_o the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v a_o infallible_a guide_n in_o fundamental_o though_o it_o be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_o c._n 3.39_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n shall_v be_v the_o only_a infallible_a guide_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o scripture_n say_v nothing_o concern_v it_o be_v incredible_a c._n 6.20_o h._n the_o difference_n betwixt_o heresy_n and_o schism_n c._n 5.51_o there_o be_v no_o new_a heresy_n no_o more_o than_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n c._n 4.18_o 37_o 38._o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o mark_n of_o heresy_n by_o the_o father_n who_o citation_n be_v answer_v c._n 6.22_o 23_o 24_o 25_o 26_o 27_o 2d_o 30_o 31_o 33_o 34._o no_o mark_n of_o heresy_n to_o want_v succession_n of_o bishop_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n c._n 6.18_o 41._o we_o be_v not_o heretic_n for_o oppose_a thing_n propound_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o divine_a truth_n c._n 6.11_o 12._o whether_o protestant_n schismatical_o cut_v off_o the_o roman_a church_n from_o hope_n of_o salvation_n c._n 5.38_o i._o the_o jewish_a church_n have_v no_o infallibility_n annex_v to_o it_o and_o if_o it_o have_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o the_o christian_a church_n shall_v have_v it_o c._n 2.141_o the_o impose_v a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o just_a cause_n of_o separate_n from_o a_o church_n c._n 5.31_o 36_o 40_o 50_o 59_o 60_o 68_o 69._o indifferency_n to_o all_o religion_n false_o charge_v upon_o protestant_n ans_fw-fr pref._n 3._o &_o c._n 3.12_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n make_v way_n for_o heresy_n pref._n 10._o a_o infallible_a guide_n not_o needful_a for_o avoid_v heresy_n c._n 2.127_o the_o church_n infallibility_n have_v not_o the_o same_o evidence_n as_o there_o be_v for_o the_o scripture_n c._n 3.30_o 31._o the_o church_n infallibility_n can_v no_o way_n be_v better_o assure_v to_o we_o than_o the_o scripture_n incorruption_n c._n 2.25_o &_o c._n 3.27_o the_o church_n infallibility_n be_v not_o prove_v from_o the_o promise_n that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o c._n 3.70_o nor_o from_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n lead_v into_o all_o truth_n which_o be_v make_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n c._n 3.71_o 72._o the_o church_n infallibility_n not_o prove_v from_o ephes_n c._n 11_o 12_o 13._o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n &c._n &c._n till_o we_o all_o come_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n etc._n etc._n c._n 3.79_o 80._o that_o god_n have_v appoint_v a_o infallible_a judge_n of_o controversy_n because_o such_o a_o one_o be_v desirable_a and_o useful_a be_v a_o weak_a conclusion_n c._n 2._o from_o 128._o to_o 136._o inclusive_a infallibility_n in_o fundamental_o no_o warrant_n to_o adhere_v to_o a_o church_n in_o all_o that_o she_o propose_v c._n 3.57_o infallible_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n vain_o boast_v of_o by_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 2.93_o 94_o 95._o whether_o the_o denial_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n leave_v man_n to_o their_o private_a spirit_n reason_n and_o discourse_n and_o what_o be_v the_o harm_n of_o it_o pref._n 12.13_o &_o c._n 2.110_o traditional_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n how_o ill_o preserve_v c._n 2.10_o interprecation_n of_o scripture_n which_o private_a man_n make_v for_o themselves_o not_o pretend_v to_o prescribe_v their_o sense_n to_o other_o though_o false_a or_o seditious_a endanger_v only_o themselves_o c._n 2.122_o allow_v the_o pope_n or_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v a_o decisive_a interpreter_n of_o christ_n law_n and_o she_o can_v evacuate_v they_o and_o make_v what_o law_n she_o please_v pref._n 10.11_o &_o c._n 2.1_o s._n irenaeus_n account_n of_o tradition_n favour_v not_o popery_n c._n 2.144_o 145_o 146._o his_o say_n that_o no_o reformation_n can_v countervail_v the_o danger_n of_o a_o schism_n explain_v c._n 5.11_o a_o live_a judge_n to_o end_v controversy_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n not_o necessary_a c._n 2.12_o 13._o if_o christ_n have_v intend_v such_o a_o judge_n in_o religion_n he_o will_v have_v name_v he_o which_o he_o have_v not_o do_v c._n 2.23_o c._n 3.69_o c._n 6.20_o though_o a_o live_a judge_n be_v necessary_a to_o determine_v civil_a cause_n yet_o not_o necessary_a for_o religious_a cause_n c._n 2._o from_o 14._o to_o 22._o inclus_fw-la if_o there_o be_v a_o judge_n of_o controversy_n no_o necessity_n it_o shall_v be_v the_o roman_a church_n c._n 3.69_o roman_n catholic_n set_v up_o as_o many_o judge_n in_o religion_n as_o protestant_n c._n 2.116_o 118_o 153._o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n must_v be_v allow_v to_o every_o man_n for_o himself_o about_o religion_n c._n 2.11_o the_o protestant_a doctrine_n of_o justification_n take_v altogether_o not_o a_o licentious_a doctrine_n c._n 7.30_o when_o they_o say_v they_o be_v justify_v by_o faith_n alone_o yet_o they_o make_v good_a work_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n c._n 7.30_o k._n our_o obligation_n to_o know_v any_o divine_a truth_n arise_v from_o god_n manifest_a reveal_n it_o c._n 3.19_o l._n how_o we_o be_v assure_v in_o what_o language_n the_o scripture_n be_v uncorrupted_a c._n 2.55_o 56_o 57_o to_o leave_v a_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n c._n 5.32_o 45_o 47._o luther_n separation_n not_o like_a that_o of_o the_o donatist_n and_o why_o c._n 5.33.101_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n do_v not_o divide_v from_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o but_o only_o reform_v themselves_o forsake_v the_o corrupt_a part_n c._n 5.56_o luther_n oppose_v himself_n to_o all_o in_o his_o reformation_n no_o objection_n against_o he_o c._n 5.89_o 90._o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o justify_v all_o that_o luther_n say_v
philosopher_n and_o heresy_n of_o christian_n be_v none_o of_o he_o he_o be_v but_o one_o to_o wit_n the_o catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n s._n epiphan_n in_o fine_a panar_n 11._o a_o man_n may_v not_o call_v the_o conventicle_n of_o heretic_n i_o mean_v marcionites_n manichees_n and_o the_o rest_n church_n therefore_o the_o tradition_n appoint_v you_o to_o say_v i_o believe_v one_o holy_a catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n s._n cyrill_n catech._n 18._o and_o these_o testimony_n i_o think_v be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n that_o this_o title_n of_o the_o church_n one_o be_v direct_o and_o proper_o exclusive_a to_o all_o company_n beside_o one_o to_o wit_n that_o where_o there_o be_v diverse_a profession_n of_o faith_n or_o diverse_a communion_n there_o be_v but_o one_o of_o these_o which_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n church_n upon_o this_o ground_n i_o desire_v some_o company_n of_o christian_n to_o be_v name_v profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n and_o hold_v a_o diverse_a communion_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_n and_o if_o no_o other_o in_o this_o sense_n can_v be_v name_v than_o be_v she_o the_o catholic_n church_n at_o that_o time_n and_o therefore_o her_o judgement_n to_o be_v rest_v in_o and_o her_o communion_n to_o be_v embrace_v upon_o peril_n of_o schism_n and_o heresy_n mr._n chillingworths_n answer_n upon_o the_o same_o ground_n if_o you_o please_v you_o may_v desire_v a_o protestant_n to_o name_v some_o company_n of_o christian_n profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n and_o hold_v a_o diverse_a communion_n from_o the_o greek_a church_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_v and_o see_v he_o can_v name_v no_o other_o in_o this_o sense_n conclude_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o that_o time_n upon_o the_o very_a same_o ground_n you_o may_v have_v conclude_v for_o the_o church_n of_o the_o abyssine_n or_o armenians_n or_o any_o other_o society_n of_o christian_n extant_a before_o luther_n time_n and_o see_v this_o be_v so_o thus_o i_o argue_v against_o your_o ground_n 1._o that_o ground_n which_o conclude_v indifferent_o for_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n must_v needs_o be_v false_a and_o deceitful_a and_o conclude_v for_o neither_o part_n but_o this_o ground_n conclude_v indifferent_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n viz._n that_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o not_o the_o roman_a as_o well_o as_o that_o the_o roman_a be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o not_o the_o greek_a therefore_o the_o ground_n be_v false_a and_o deceitful_a seem_v it_o never_o so_o plausible_a 2._o i_o answer_v second_o that_o you_o shall_v have_v take_v notice_n of_o my_o answer_n which_o i_o then_o give_v you_o which_o be_v that_o your_o major_n as_o you_o then_o frame_v your_o argument_n but_o as_o now_o your_o minor_a be_v not_o always_o true_a if_o by_o one_o you_o understand_v one_o in_o external_a communion_n see_v nothing_o hinder_v in_o my_o judgement_n but_o that_o one_o church_n excommunicate_v by_o another_o upon_o a_o insufficient_a cause_n may_v yet_o remain_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o that_o church_n which_o upon_o the_o over-value_a this_o cause_n do_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o though_o in_o fault_n may_v yet_o remain_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n which_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o difference_n about_o easter-day_n between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o which_o vain_a matter_n victor_n bishop_n of_o rome_n excommunicate_v the_o church_n of_o asia_n and_o yet_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o either_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v or_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o between_o the_o greek_a and_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o though_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o be_v great_a yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o great_a as_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n and_o therefore_o the_o excommunication_n be_v causeless_a and_o consequent_o brutum_fw-la fulmen_fw-la and_o not_o ratify_v or_o confirm_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n at_o luther_n rise_a might_n be_v and_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o concern_v the_o place_n of_o father_n which_o you_o allege_v i_o demand_v 1._o if_o i_o can_v produce_v you_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o father_n or_o more_o ancient_a than_o these_o not_o contradict_v by_o any_o that_o live_v with_o they_o or_o before_o they_o for_o some_o doctrine_n condemn_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n whether_o you_o will_v subscribe_v it_o if_o not_o with_o what_o face_n or_o conscience_n can_v you_o make_v use_n of_o and_o build_v your_o whole_a faith_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n in_o some_o thing_n and_o reject_v the_o same_o authority_n in_o other_o 2._o second_o because_o you_o urge_v s._n cyprian_n authority_n i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o this_o argument_n in_o his_o time_n will_v have_v conclude_v a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n or_o no_o if_o not_o how_o shall_v it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o it_o shall_v serve_v now_o and_o not_o then_o fit_v this_o time_n and_o not_o that_o as_o if_o it_o be_v like_o a_o almanac_n that_o will_v not_o serve_v for_o all_o meridian_n if_o it_o will_v why_o be_v it_o not_o urge_v by_o other_o upon_o s._n cyprian_n or_o represent_v by_o s._n cyprian_n to_o himself_o for_o his_o direction_n when_o he_o differ_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o all_o other_o that_o herein_o conform_v unto_o she_o touch_v the_o point_n of_o rebaptising_a heretic_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n hold_v unlawful_a and_o damnable_a s._n cyprian_n not_o only_o lawful_a but_o necessary_a so_o well_o do_v he_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o that_o church_n quid_fw-la verba_fw-la audiam_fw-la cùm_fw-la facta_fw-la videam_fw-la say_v he_o in_o the_o comedy_n and_o cardinal_n perron_n tell_v you_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o casaubon_n that_o nothing_o be_v more_o unreasonable_a than_o to_o draw_v consequence_n from_o the_o word_n of_o father_n against_o their_o lively_a and_o actual_a practice_n the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o refutation_n of_o the_o place_n out_o of_o s._n austin_n who_o be_v so_o far_o from_o conclude_v from_o they_o or_o any_o other_o a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o he_o himself_o as_o your_o author_n testify_v live_v and_o die_v in_o opposition_n of_o it_o even_o in_o that_o main_a fundamental_a point_n upon_o which_o mr._n lewgar_n have_v build_v the_o necessity_n of_o his_o departure_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o be_v the_o supreme_a authority_n of_o that_o church_n over_o other_o church_n and_o the_o power_n of_o receive_v appeals_n from_o they_o mr._n lewgar_o i_o know_v can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o these_o thing_n and_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v with_o what_o conscience_n he_o can_v produce_v their_o word_n against_o we_o who_o action_n be_v for_o we_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o s._n cyprian_a and_o s._n austin_n be_v schismatic_n for_o do_v so_o it_o seem_v then_o schismatic_n may_v not_o only_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n against_o mr._n lewgar_n main_a conclusion_n but_o canonize_v saint_n of_o it_o or_o else_o s._n austin_n and_o s._n cyprian_a shall_v be_v raze_v out_o of_o the_o roman_a calendar_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o point_n of_o rebaptisation_a be_v not_o define_v in_o s._n cyprian_n time_n i_o say_v that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o their_o adherent_n it_o be_v for_o they_o urge_v it_o as_o a_o original_a and_o apostolic_a tradition_n and_o consequent_o at_o least_o of_o as_o great_a force_n as_o any_o church_n definition_n they_o excommunicate_v firmilianus_n and_o condemn_v s._n cyprian_n as_o a_o false_a christ_n and_o a_o false_a apostle_n for_o hold_v the_o contrary_a and_o urge_v he_o tyrannico_fw-la terror_fw-la to_o conform_v his_o judgement_n to_o they_o as_o he_o himself_o clear_o intimate_v if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o differ_v only_o from_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o not_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n take_v it_o for_o the_o universal_a society_n of_o christian_n in_o communion_n with_o that_o church_n i_o answer_v 1._o they_o know_v no_o such_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n i_o be_o sure_a never_o use_v it_o in_o any_o such_o which_o whether_o it_o have_v be_v possible_a if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v be_v in_o their_o judgement_n to_o other_o church_n in_o
spiritual_a matter_n as_o the_o city_n be_v to_o other_o city_n and_o country_n in_o temporal_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o indifferent_a man_n to_o judge_v 2._o second_o that_o they_o differ_v not_o only_o from_o the_o particular_a roman_a church_n but_o also_o from_o all_o other_o church_n that_o agree_v with_o it_o in_o those_o doctrine_n 3._o three_o i_o desire_v you_o will_v answer_v i_o direct_o whether_o the_o roman_a church_n take_v it_o for_o that_o particular_a church_n be_v of_o necessity_n to_o be_v hold_v infallible_a in_o faith_n by_o every_o roman_n catholic_n or_o not_o to_o this_o question_n i_o instant_o desire_v a_o direct_a answer_n without_o tergiversation_n that_o we_o may_v at_o length_n get_v out_o of_o the_o cloud_n and_o you_o may_v say_v coram_fw-la quem_fw-la quaeritis_fw-la adsum_fw-la if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o believe_v so_o than_o it_o be_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n nor_o no_o certain_a truth_n upon_o which_o man_n may_v safe_o rest_v without_o fluctuation_n or_o fear_n of_o error_n and_o if_o so_o i_o demand_v 1._o why_o be_v all_o your_o clergy_n bind_v to_o swear_v and_o consequent_o your_o laity_n if_o they_o have_v communion_n of_o faith_n with_o they_o by_o your_o own_o ground_n bind_v to_o believe_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o mistress_n of_o all_o other_o church_n where_o it_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o relation_n and_o opposition_n of_o the_o roman_a to_o other_o church_n that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v there_o take_v for_o that_o particular_a church_n 2._o second_o why_o then_o do_v you_o so_o often_o urge_v that_o mistake_v say_v of_o iraeneus_n ad_fw-la hanc_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la omnem_fw-la convenire_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la false_o translate_n it_o as_o cardinal_z perron_n in_o french_a and_o my_o l._n f._n in_o english_a all_o church_n must_v agree_v with_o this_o church_n for_o convenire_fw-la ad_fw-la signify_v not_o to_o agree_v with_o but_o to_o come_v unto_o whereas_o it_o be_v evident_a for_o the_o aforesaid_a reason_n that_o the_o roman_a be_v here_o take_v for_o that_o particular_a church_n 3._o three_o if_o that_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o certain_o infallible_a but_o subject_a to_o error_n in_o point_n of_o faith_n i_o will_v know_v if_o any_o division_n of_o your_o church_n shall_v happen_v in_o which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n either_o alone_a or_o with_o some_o other_o shall_v take_v one_o way_n the_o church_n of_o spain_n and_o france_n and_o many_o other_o church_n another_o what_o direction_n shall_v a_o ignorant_a catholic_n have_v then_o from_o the_o pretend_a guide_n of_o faith_n how_o shall_v he_o know_v which_o of_o these_o company_n be_v the_o church_n see_v all_o other_o church_n distinguish_v from_o the_o roman_a may_v err_v and_o see_v the_o roman_a church_n be_v now_o suppose_a subject_n to_o error_n and_o consequent_o not_o certain_a to_o guard_v those_o man_n or_o those_o church_n that_o adhere_v unto_o it_o 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you_o shall_v lead_v i_o 3._o three_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o place_n allege_v be_v utter_o impertinent_a to_o the_o conclusion_n you_o shall_v have_v prove_v which_o be_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o two_o society_n of_o christian_n divide_v upon_o what_o cause_n soever_o in_o external_a communion_n may_v be_v in_o truth_n and_o in_o god_n account_n both_o of_o they_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n whereas_o your_o testimony_n if_o we_o grant_v they_o all_o say_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o the_o society_n of_o heretic_n which_o be_v such_o as_o overthrow_v any_o doctrine_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o of_o schismatic_n which_o be_v such_o as_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n communion_n without_o any_o pretence_n of_o error_n in_o the_o church_n or_o unlawfulness_n in_o the_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n i_o say_v they_o prove_v only_o this_o that_o such_o society_n as_o these_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o church_n which_o i_o willing_o grant_v of_o all_o such_o as_o be_v proper_o and_o formal_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n from_o which_o number_n i_o think_v with_o s._n austin_n they_o be_v to_o be_v exempt_v qui_fw-la quaerunt_fw-la cautâ_fw-la sollicitudine_fw-la veritatem_fw-la corrigi_fw-la parati_fw-la cùm_fw-la invenerint_fw-la whereas_o i_o put_v the_o case_n of_o such_o two_o society_n which_o not_o differ_v indeed_o in_o any_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n do_v yet_o erroneous_o believe_v that_o the_o error_n wherewith_o they_o charge_v one_o another_o be_v damnable_a and_o so_o by_o this_o opinion_n of_o mutual_a error_n be_v keep_v on_o both_o side_n from_o be_v heretic_n because_o i_o desire_v to_o bring_v you_o and_o other_o to_o the_o truth_n or_o to_o be_v bring_v to_o it_o by_o you_o i_o think_v good_a for_o your_o direction_n in_o your_o intend_a reply_n to_o acquaint_v you_o with_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o i_o conceive_v the_o in_o your_o discourse_n be_v this_o that_o whensoever_o any_o two_o society_n of_o christian_n differ_v in_o external_a communion_n one_o of_o they_o must_v be_v of_o necessity_n heretical_a or_o schismatical_a i_o conceive_v there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n and_o that_o the_o story_n of_o victor_n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o asia_n s._n cyprian_n and_o pope_n stephen_n make_v it_o evident_a and_o therefore_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o produce_v some_o convince_a argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o that_o you_o may_v the_o better_a do_v it_o i_o think_v good_a to_o inform_v you_o what_o i_o mean_v by_o a_o heretic_n and_o what_o by_o a_o schismatic_a a_o heretic_n therefore_o i_o conceive_v he_o that_o hold_v a_o error_n against_o faith_n with_o obstinacy_n obstinate_a i_o conceive_v he_o who_o will_v not_o change_v his_o opinion_n when_o his_o reason_n for_o it_o be_v so_o answer_v that_o he_o can_v reply_v and_o when_o the_o reason_n against_o it_o be_v so_o convince_a that_o he_o can_v answer_v they_o by_o the_o faith_n i_o understand_v all_o those_o doctrine_n and_o no_o more_o which_o christ_n teach_v his_o apostle_n and_o the_o apostle_n the_o church_n yet_o i_o exclude_v not_o from_o this_o number_n the_o certain_a and_o evident_a deduction_n of_o they_o a_o schismatic_a i_o account_v he_o and_o facundus_n hermianensis_fw-la have_v teach_v i_o to_o do_v so_o who_o without_o any_o suppose_n of_o error_n in_o the_o condition_n of_o a_o church_n communion_n divide_v himself_o either_o from_o the_o obedience_n of_o that_o church_n to_o which_o he_o owe_v obedience_n or_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n to_o which_o he_o owe_v communion_n 2._o another_o thing_n which_o i_o think_v fit_a to_o acquaint_v you_o with_o be_v this_o that_o you_o go_v upon_o another_o very_a false_a and_o deceitful_a supposition_n viz._n that_o if_o we_o will_v not_o be_v protestant_n present_o we_o must_v be_v papist_n if_o we_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o must_v go_v present_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n whereas_o if_o your_o argument_n do_v conclude_v as_o they_o do_v not_o that_o before_o luther_n time_n there_o be_v some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n i_o shall_v much_o rather_o think_v it_o be_v the_o church_n of_o greece_n than_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o i_o believe_v other_o also_o will_v think_v so_o as_o well_o as_o i_o but_o for_o that_o reason_n which_o one_o give_v why_o more_o man_n hold_v the_o pope_n above_o a_o council_n than_o a_o council_n above_o a_o pope_n that_o be_v because_o council_n give_v no_o maintenance_n or_o preferment_n and_o the_o pope_n do_v think_v not_o yet_o i_o pray_v that_o i_o say_v this_o as_o if_o i_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v your_o reason_n for_o prefer_v the_o roman_a church_n before_o the_o greek_a for_o i_o protest_v i_o do_v not_o but_o rather_o that_o conceive_v very_o you_o be_v to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o avoid_v
trouble_v you_o take_v the_o next_o boat_n and_o go_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o that_o bespeak_v you_o first_o you_o impute_v to_o i_o as_o i_o hear_v that_o the_o way_n i_o take_v be_v destructive_a only_o and_o that_o i_o build_v nothing_o which_o first_o be_v not_o a_o fault_n for_o christian_a religion_n be_v not_o now_o to_o be_v build_v but_o only_o i_o desire_v to_o have_v the_o rubbish_n and_o impertinent_a lumber_n take_v off_o which_o you_o have_v lay_v upon_o it_o which_o hide_v the_o glorious_a simplicity_n of_o it_o from_o they_o which_o otherwise_o will_v embrace_v it_o remember_v i_o pray_v averro_n his_o say_n quandoquidem_fw-la christiani_n adorant_fw-la quod_fw-la comedunt_fw-la sit_fw-la anima_fw-la mea_fw-la cum_fw-la philosophis_fw-la and_o consider_v the_o swarm_n of_o atheist_n in_o italy_n and_o then_o tell_v i_o whether_o your_o unreasonable_a and_o contradictious_a doctrine_n your_o forge_a miracle_n and_o counterfeit_a legend_n have_v not_o in_o all_o probability_n produce_v this_o effect_n second_o if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n it_o be_v certain_o your_o own_o for_o your_o discourse_n intend_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o positive_a conclusion_n that_o we_o must_v be_v papist_n prove_v in_o deed_n and_o in_o truth_n nothing_o but_o even_o in_o show_n and_o appearance_n no_o more_o but_o this_o negative_a that_o we_o must_v not_o be_v protestant_n but_o what_o we_o must_v be_v if_o we_o must_v not_o be_v protestant_n god_n know_v you_o in_o this_o discourse_n i_o be_o sure_a do_v not_o show_v it_o mr._n lewgar_n reply_v §_o 1._o the_o minor_a of_o mr._n chillingworths_n argument_n against_o my_o ground_n be_v very_o weak_a be_v frame_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n that_o a_o protestant_n can_v name_v no_o other_o church_n profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n etc._n etc._n from_o the_o greek_a church_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n for_o if_o he_o can_v not_o indeed_o name_v any_o other_o the_o title_n will_v remain_v to_o the_o greek_a church_n but_o he_o have_v the_o roman_a to_o name_n and_o so_o my_o ground_n can_v conclude_v either_o for_o the_o greek_a or_o abyssine_n or_o any_o other_o beside_o the_o roman_a but_o for_o that_o it_o do_v except_o he_o can_v name_v some_o other_o §_o 2._o his_o second_o answer_n be_v weak_a likewise_o for_o my_o minor_n be_v always_o true_a at_o least_o they_o think_v it_o to_o be_v so_o who_o authority_n i_o produce_v in_o confirmation_n of_o it_o as_o will_v appear_v to_o any_o one_o that_o consider_v they_o well_o how_o their_o force_n lie_v in_o thesi_fw-la not_o in_o hypothesi_fw-la not_o that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o then_o divide_v into_o more_o society_n than_o one_o but_o that_o she_o can_v never_o be_v §_o 3._o as_o for_o his_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a wherein_o he_o believe_v i_o will_v not_o say_v the_o church_n excommunicate_v by_o victor_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n if_o i_o say_v so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o than_o the_o ancient_a father_n say_v before_o i_o iraeneus_n when_o he_o desire_v victor_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d not_o to_o cut_v off_o so_o many_o and_o great_a church_n and_o ruffinus_n reprehendit_fw-la eam_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la benè_fw-la fecisset_fw-la abscindere_fw-la ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la corporis_fw-la etc._n etc._n §_o 4._o but_o howsoever_o the_o case_n of_o excommunication_n may_v be_v the_o division_n of_o external_a communion_n which_o i_o intend_v and_o the_o father_n speak_v of_o in_o the_o allege_a authority_n be_v that_o which_o be_v make_v by_o voluntary_a separation_n §_o 5._o whereby_o the_o church_n before_o one_o society_n be_v divide_v into_o several_a distinct_a society_n both_o claim_v to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o which_o society_n so_o divide_v but_o one_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n and_o this_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o authority_n allege_v which_o authority_n must_v not_o be_v answer_v by_o disprove_v they_o as_o he_o do_v for_o that_o be_v to_o change_v his_o adversary_n and_o confute_v the_o father_n say_n instead_o of_o i_o but_o by_o show_v their_o true_a sense_n or_o judgement_n to_o be_v otherwise_o than_o i_o allege_v it_o §_o 6._o to_o his_o demand_n upon_o the_o place_n allege_v i_o answer_v that_o i_o do_v not_o build_v my_o whole_a faith_n of_o this_o conclusion_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o father_n for_o i_o produce_v they_o not_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o of_o the_o exposition_n the_o thing_n itself_o be_v a_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n unam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la ground_v in_o express_a scripture_n columba_n mea_fw-la unica_fw-la but_o because_o there_o be_v difference_n in_o understand_v this_o prophecy_n i_o produce_v these_o authority_n to_o show_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n how_o they_o understand_v it_o and_o the_o proper_a answer_n to_o this_o be_v either_o to_o show_v that_o these_o word_n be_v not_o there_o or_o at_o least_o not_o this_o meaning_n and_o so_o to_o show_v their_o meaning_n out_o of_o other_o place_n more_o pregnant_a §_o 7._o and_o i_o promise_v that_o whensoever_o a_o equal_a consent_n of_o father_n can_v be_v show_v for_o any_o thing_n as_o i_o can_v show_v for_o this_o i_o will_v believe_v it_o as_o firm_o as_o i_o do_v this_o §_o 8._o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o answerers_n part_n to_o propound_v doubt_n and_o difficulty_n but_o to_o satisfy_v the_o proof_n object_v §_o 9_o and_o if_o this_o course_n be_v any_o more_o take_v i_o will_v save_v myself_o all_o far_a labour_n in_o a_o business_n so_o likely_a to_o be_v endless_a §_o 10._o his_o second_o answer_n to_o the_o place_n be_v whole_o impertinent_a for_o therein_o will_v he_o disprove_v they_o from_o watch_v a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n whereas_o i_o produce_v they_o only_o to_o show_v that_o among_o several_a society_n of_o christian_n only_o one_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n and_o against_o this_o his_o second_o answer_n say_v nothing_o §_o 11._o in_o his_o three_o answer_n he_o make_v some_o show_n of_o reply_n to_o the_o authority_n themselves_o but_o he_o commit_v a_o double_a error_n one_o that_o he_o impose_v upon_o i_o a_o wrong_a conclusion_n to_o be_v prove_v as_o will_v appear_v by_o compare_v my_o conclusion_n in_o my_o paper_n with_o the_o conclusion_n he_o will_v appoint_v i_o §_o 12._o another_o that_o he_o impose_v upon_o the_o authority_n a_o wrong_a interpretation_n no_o way_n ground_v in_o the_o word_n themselves_o nor_o in_o the_o place_n whence_o they_o be_v take_v nor_o in_o any_o other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o father_n but_o mere_o forge_v out_o of_o his_o own_o brain_n for_o first_o the_o place_n do_v not_o only_o say_v that_o the_o society_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v divide_v into_o more_o society_n than_o one_o and_o they_o account_v society_n divide_v which_o be_v either_o of_o a_o diverse_a faith_n or_o a_o diverse_a communion_n neither_o do_v they_o define_v heretic_n or_o schismatic_n in_o that_o manner_n as_o he_o do_v §_o 13._o for_o a_o heretic_n in_o their_o language_n be_v he_o that_o oppose_v partinacious_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o the_o church_n and_o a_o schismatic_a he_o that_o separate_v from_o the_o catholic_n communion_n never_o make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o cause_n §_o 14._o and_o if_o his_o definition_n of_o a_o schismatic_a may_v stand_v then_o certain_o there_o be_v no_o schismatic_a ever_o in_o the_o world_n nor_o none_o be_v at_o this_o day_n for_o none_o do_v none_o do_v separate_v without_o some_o pretence_n of_o error_n or_o unlawfulness_n in_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o church_n communion_n §_o 15._o and_o so_o i_o expect_v both_o a_o full_a and_o direct_a answer_n to_o my_o argument_n without_o excursion_n or_o diversion_n into_o any_o other_o matter_n till_o the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n be_v clear_v in_o this_o point_n mr._n chillingworths_n answer_n ad_fw-la §_o 1._o the_o minor_a of_o my_o argument_n you_o say_v be_v very_o weak_a be_v ground_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n that_o a_o protestant_n can_v name_v no_o other_o church_n profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n from_o the_o greek_a which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o your_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o may_v name_v the_o roman_a but_o in_o earnest_n mr._n lewgar_o do_v you_o think_v that_o a_o protestant_n remain_v a_o protestant_n can_v esteem_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n or_o do_v you_o think_v to_o put_v trick_n upon_o we_o with_o take_v your_o proposition_n one_o while_n in_o sensu_fw-la composito_fw-la another_o while_n in_o sensu_fw-la diviso_fw-la for_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o a_o protestant_n not_o remain_v but_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o
protestant_n may_v name_v the_o roman_a for_o the_o catholic_n so_o i_o say_v also_o to_o your_o discourse_n that_o a_o protestant_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o protestant_n may_v name_v a_o greek_a to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o necessity_n to_o find_v out_o one_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n as_o the_o greek_a the_o roman_a the_o abyssine_n which_o one_o must_v be_v the_o catholic_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n but_o he_o may_v pitch_v upon_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o roman_a i_o be_o sure_a your_o discourse_n prove_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_n in_o short_a thus_o i_o say_v if_o a_o grecian_a shall_v go_v about_o to_o prove_v to_o a_o protestant_n that_o his_o church_n be_v the_o catholic_n by_o say_v as_o you_o do_v for_o the_o roman_a some_o one_o be_v so_o before_o luther_n and_o you_o can_v name_v no_o other_o therefore_o we_o be_v so_o whatsoever_o may_v be_v answer_v to_o he_o may_v be_v answer_v to_o you_o for_o as_o you_o say_v a_o protestant_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o protestant_n may_v name_v to_o he_o the_o roman_a so_o i_o say_v a_o protestant_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o protestant_n may_v name_v to_o you_o the_o grecian_a if_o you_o say_v a_o protestant_n remain_v a_o protestant_n can_v name_v no_o other_o but_o the_o roman_a for_o the_o catholic_n i_o may_v very_o ridiculous_o i_o confess_v but_o yet_o as_o true_o say_v he_o can_v name_v no_o other_o but_o the_o grecian_a if_o you_o say_v he_o can_v name_v the_o greek_a church_n neither_o remain_v a_o protestant_n i_o say_v likewise_o neither_o remain_v a_o protestant_n can_v he_o name_v the_o roman_a for_o the_o catholic_n so_o the_o argument_n be_v equal_a in_o all_o respect_n on_o both_o side_n and_o therefore_o either_o conclude_v for_o both_o part_n which_o be_v impossible_a for_o then_o contradiction_n shall_v be_v both_o true_a or_o else_o which_o be_v certain_a it_o conclude_v for_o neither_o and_o therefore_o i_o say_v your_o ground_n you_o build_v on_o that_o before_o luther_n some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n be_v the_o catholic_n if_o it_o be_v true_a as_o it_o be_v most_o false_a will_v not_o prove_v your_o intent_n it_o will_v destroy_v perhaps_o our_o church_n but_o it_o will_v not_o build_v you_o it_o will_v prove_v peradventure_o that_o we_o must_v not_o be_v protestant_n but_o it_o will_v be_v far_o from_o prove_v that_o we_o must_v be_v papist_n for_o after_o we_o have_v leave_v be_v protestant_n i_o tell_v you_o again_o that_o you_o may_v not_o mistake_v there_o be_v yet_o no_o necessity_n of_o be_v papist_n no_o more_o than_o if_o i_o go_v out_o of_o england_n there_o be_v a_o necessity_n of_o go_v to_o rome_n and_o thus_o much_o to_o show_v the_o poorness_n of_o your_o ground_n if_o it_o be_v true_a now_o in_o the_o second_o place_n i_o say_v it_o be_v false_a neither_o have_v you_o prove_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_n ad_fw-la §_o 2._o you_o say_v the_o authority_n you_o have_v produce_v show_v to_o any_o that_o consider_v they_o well_o that_o the_o church_n can_v never_o be_v divide_v into_o more_o society_n than_o one_o and_o you_o mean_v i_o hope_v one_o in_o external_a communion_n or_o else_o you_o dally_v in_o ambiguity_n and_o then_o i_o say_v i_o have_v well_o consider_v the_o allege_a authority_n and_o they_o appear_v to_o i_o to_o say_v no_o such_o thing_n but_o only_o that_o the_o society_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v no_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n whereas_o i_o put_v the_o case_n of_o two_o such_o society_n which_o be_v divide_v in_o external_a communion_n by_o reason_n of_o some_o overvalue_v difference_n between_o they_o and_o yet_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o heretical_a or_o schismatical_a to_o this_o i_o know_v you_o can_v not_o answer_v but_o only_o by_o say_v that_o this_o supposition_n be_v impossible_a viz._n that_o of_o two_o society_n divide_v in_o external_a communion_n neither_o shall_v be_v heretical_a nor_o schismatical_a and_o therefore_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o prove_v by_o one_o convince_a argument_n that_o this_o be_v impossible_a this_o you_o have_v not_o do_v nor_o i_o believe_v can_v do_v and_o therefore_o all_o your_o place_n fall_v short_a of_o your_o intend_a conclusion_n and_o if_o you_o will_v put_v they_o into_o syllogistical_a form_n you_o shall_v present_o see_v you_o conclude_v from_o they_o sophistical_o in_o that_o fallacy_n which_o be_v call_v a_o dicto_fw-la secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la ad_fw-la dictum_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la thus_o no_o then_o divide_v society_n whereof_o one_o be_v heretical_a or_o schismatical_a can_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n therefore_o simple_o not_o two_o divide_a society_n can_v be_v so_o the_o antecedent_n i_o grant_v which_o be_v all_o that_o your_o place_n say_v as_o you_o shall_v see_v anon_o but_o the_o consequence_n be_v sophistical_a and_o therefore_o that_o i_o deny_v it_o be_v no_o better_a nor_o worse_o than_o if_o you_o shall_v argue_v thus_o no_o true_a divide_a society_n whereof_o one_o be_v outlawed_n and_o in_o rebellion_n be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o same_o commonwealth_n therefore_o simple_o not_o two_o divide_a society_n but_o against_o this_o you_o pretend_v that_o the_o allege_a place_n say_v not_o only_o that_o the_o society_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v divide_v into_o more_o society_n than_o one_o and_o they_o account_v society_n divide_v which_o be_v either_o of_o a_o diverse_a faith_n or_o of_o a_o diverse_a communion_n this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o will_v have_v prove_v but_o as_o yet_o i_o can_v see_v it_o do_v there_o be_v eleven_o quotation_n in_o all_o seven_o of_o they_o speak_v express_o and_o formal_o of_o division_n make_v by_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n viz._n 1.3_o 4._o 7.9_o 10_o 11._o three_o other_o of_o they_o viz._n 5_o 6.8_o though_o they_o use_v not_o the_o word_n yet_o mr._n lewgar_n know_v they_o speak_v of_o the_o donatist_n which_o be_v schismatic_n and_o that_o by_o the_o relative_a particle_n you_o and_o they_o be_v mean_v the_o donatist_n and_o last_o the_o second_o mr._n lewgar_n know_v say_v nothing_o but_o this_o that_o a_o heretic_n can_v be_v account_v of_o that_o one_o flock_n which_o be_v the_o church_n but_o to_o make_v the_o most_o of_o they_o that_o can_v be_v the_o first_o say_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n can_v be_v separate_v at_o all_o nor_o divide_v this_o i_o grant_v but_o then_o i_o say_v every_o difference_n do_v not_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n divide_v this_o unity_n for_o then_o diversity_n of_o opinion_n shall_v do_v it_o and_o so_o the_o jesuit_n and_o dominicans_n shall_v be_v no_o long_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n or_o if_o every_o difference_n will_v not_o do_v it_o why_o must_v it_o of_o necessity_n be_v always_o do_v by_o difference_n in_o communion_n upon_o a_o insufficient_a ground_n yet_o mistake_v for_o sufficient_a for_o such_o only_o i_o speak_v of_o sure_o i_o be_o this_o place_n say_v no_o such_o matter_n the_o next_o place_n say_v the_o flock_n be_v but_o one_o and_o all_o the_o rest_n that_o the_o church_n be_v but_o one_o and_o that_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v not_o of_o it_o which_o certain_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v prove_v but_o that_o of_o this_o one_o flock_n of_o this_o one_o church_n two_o society_n divide_v without_o just_a cause_n in_o communion_n may_v not_o be_v true_a and_o lively_a member_n both_o in_o one_o body_n mystical_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n though_o divide_v in_o unity_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o man_n it_o be_v true_a indeed_o whosoever_o be_v shut_v out_o from_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n be_v likewise_o cut_v off_o from_o it_o before_o god_n in_o heaven_n but_o you_o know_v it_o must_v be_v clavae_n non_fw-la errante_fw-la when_o the_o cause_n of_o abscission_n be_v true_a and_o sufficient_a ad_fw-la §_o 3._o if_o you_o say_v so_o you_o say_v no_o more_o than_o the_o father_n but_o what_o evasion_n and_o tergiversation_n be_v these_o why_o do_v you_o put_v we_o off_o with_o if_n and_o and_n i_o beseech_v you_o tell_v i_o or_o at_o least_o he_o that_o desire_v to_o reap_v some_o benefit_n by_o our_o conference_n direct_o and_o categorical_o do_v you_o say_v so_o or_o do_v you_o say_v it_o be_v not_o so_o be_v the_o excommunicate_v church_n of_o asia_n still_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n i_o mean_v in_o god_n account_n or_o be_v they_o not_o but_o all_o damn_a for_o that_o horrible_a heresy_n of_o celebrate_v the_o feast_n of_o easter_n upon_o a_o diverse_a day_n from_o the_o western_a church_n if_o you_o mean_v honest_o and_o fair_o answer_v direct_o to_o this_o question_n and_o then_o you_o
of_o it_o occasionem_fw-la quaerit_fw-la qui_fw-la cupit_fw-la discedere_fw-la ad_fw-la §_o 10._o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o be_v not_o therefore_o a_o note_n of_o a_o illation_n or_o a_o conclusion_n and_o be_v not_o your_o last_o therefore_o this_o therefore_o her_o judgement_n be_v to_o be_v rest_v in_o which_o though_o it_o be_v not_o your_o first_o conclusion_n yet_o you_o it_o be_v and_o you_o may_v not_o declaim_v it_o and_o it_o be_v so_o near_o of_o kin_n to_o the_o former_a in_o your_o judgement_n i_o be_o sure_a that_o they_o must_v stand_v or_o fall_v together_o therefore_o he_o that_o speak_v pertinent_o for_o the_o disprove_v of_o the_o one_o can_v speak_v impertinent_o towards_o the_o disprove_v the_o other_o and_o therefore_o you_o can_v so_o shift_v it_o off_o but_o of_o necessity_n you_o must_v answer_v the_o argument_n there_o urge_v or_o confess_v it_o ingenuous_o to_o be_v unanswerable_a or_o if_o you_o will_v not_o answer_v any_o thing_n where_o the_o contradiction_n of_o your_o first_o conclusion_n be_v not_o in_o term_n infer_v then_o take_v it_o thus_o if_o s._n cyprian_n and_o s._n austin_n do_v not_o think_v it_o necessary_a in_o matter_n of_o faith_n to_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o then_o either_o they_o think_v not_o the_o catholic_n church_n judgement_n necessary_a to_o be_v rest_v on_o or_o they_o think_v not_o that_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_a and_o undeniable_o prove_v so_o by_o their_o action_n and_o the_o consequence_n evident_a therefore_o the_o consequent_a must_v be_v true_a in_o one_o or_o other_o part_n but_o you_o will_v not_o say_v the_o former_a be_v true_a it_o remain_v therefore_o the_o latter_a must_v be_v and_o that_o be_v that_o s._n austin_n and_o s._n cyprian_n do_v not_o think_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n ad_fw-la §_o 11._o but_o i_o tell_v you_o now_o and_o have_v already_o tell_v you_o that_o in_o our_o discourse_n before_o mr._n skinner_n and_o dr._n sheldon_n i_o answer_v your_o major_n as_o than_o you_o frame_v your_o argument_n as_o now_o your_o minor_a thus_o if_o you_o understand_v by_o one_o company_n of_o christian_n one_o in_o external_n communion_n i_o deny_v your_o major_n for_o i_o say_v that_o two_o several_a society_n of_o christian_n which_o do_v not_o external_o communicate_v together_o may_v be_v both_o part_n of_o the_o same_o catholic_n church_n and_o what_o difference_n there_o be_v between_o this_o and_o the_o conclusion_n i_o tell_v you_o you_o shall_v have_v prove_v i_o do_v not_o well_o unstand_a ad_fw-la §_o 12._o and_o be_v it_o possible_a you_o shall_v say_v so_o when_o every_o one_o of_o the_o place_n carry_v this_o sense_n in_o their_o forehead_n and_o 7_o of_o the_o 11_o in_o term_n express_v it_o that_o they_o intend_v only_o to_o exclude_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n from_o be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o they_o do_v not_o against_o who_o do_v they_o intend_v they_o pagan_n lay_v no_o claim_n to_o the_o church_n therefore_o not_o against_o they_o catholic_n they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o exclude_v i_o know_v not_o who_o remain_v beside_o but_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n beside_o the_o frequent_a opposition_n in_o they_o between_o one_o church_n on_o the_o one_o side_n and_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n who_o see_v not_o that_o in_o these_o place_n they_o intend_v to_o exclude_v only_o these_o pretender_n out_o of_o the_o church_n unity_n last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o the_o place_n say_v that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v divide_v and_o that_o they_o account_v those_o divide_v who_o be_v of_o a_o diverse_a faith_n or_o a_o diverse_a communion_n i_o tell_v you_o that_o i_o have_v read_v they_o over_o and_o over_o and_o unless_o my_o eye_n deceive_v they_o say_v not_o one_o word_n of_o a_o diverse_a communion_n ad_fw-la §_o 13._o whereas_o a_o heretic_n in_o your_o language_n be_v he_o that_o oppose_v pertinacious_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o the_o church_n in_o my_o he_o be_v such_o a_o one_o as_o hold_v a_o error_n against_o faith_n with_o obstinacy_n very_o a_o monstrous_a difference_n between_o these_o definition_n to_o oppose_v and_o hold_v against_o i_o hope_v be_v all_o one_o faith_n and_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o the_o church_n sure_o be_v not_o very_o different_a pertinacious_o and_o with_o obstinacy_n methinks_v may_v pass_v for_o synonimous_a and_o see_v the_o part_n agree_v so_o well_o methinks_v the_o total_a shall_v not_o be_v at_o great_a hostility_n and_o for_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o schismatic_a if_o you_o like_v not_o my_o which_o yet_o i_o give_v you_o out_o of_o a_o father_n i_o pray_v take_v your_o own_o and_o then_o show_v i_o if_o you_o mean_v to_o do_v any_o thing_n that_o wheresoever_o there_o be_v two_o society_n of_o christian_n differ_v in_o external_a communion_n one_o of_o they_o most_o be_v of_o necessity_n either_o heretical_a or_o schismatical_a in_o your_o own_o sense_n of_o these_o word_n to_o the_o contrary_a i_o have_v say_v already_o and_o say_v it_o now_o again_o that_o you_o may_v not_o forget_v it_o the_o roman_a and_o the_o asian_a church_n in_o victor_n time_n the_o roman_a and_o the_o african_a in_o s._n stephen_n time_n differ_v in_o external_a communion_n and_o yet_o neither_o of_o they_o be_v heretical_a for_o they_o do_v not_o oppose_v pertinacious_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o of_o they_o be_v schismatical_a for_o they_o do_v not_o separate_v never_o make_v mention_n of_o the_o cause_n at_o all_o but_o be_v separate_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o upon_o some_o cause_n though_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a ad_fw-la §_o 14._o the_o donatist_n do_v so_o as_o facundus_n hermianensis_fw-la testify_v but_o you_o be_v abuse_v i_o believe_v with_o not_o distinguish_v between_o these_o two_o they_o do_v pretend_v that_o the_o church_n require_v of_o they_o some_o unlawful_a thing_n among_o the_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n and_o they_o do_v pretend_v that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o they_o to_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n this_o i_o confess_v they_o do_v pretend_v but_o it_o be_v in_o regard_n of_o some_o person_n in_o the_o church_n with_o who_o they_o think_v it_o unlawful_a to_o communicate_v but_o the_o former_a they_o do_v not_o pretend_v i_o mean_v while_o they_o continue_v mere_a schismatic_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v any_o error_n in_o the_o church_n or_o impiety_n in_o her_o public_a service_n of_o god_n and_o this_o be_v my_o meaning_n in_o say_v a_o schismatic_a be_v he_o which_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n without_o pretence_n of_o error_n or_o unlawfulness_n in_o the_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n yet_o if_o i_o have_v leave_v out_o the_o term_n unlawfulness_n the_o definition_n have_v be_v better_a and_o not_o obnoxious_a to_o this_o cavillation_n and_o so_o i_o do_v in_o the_o second_o paper_n which_o i_o send_v you_o for_o your_o direction_n which_o if_o you_o have_v deal_v candid_o you_o shall_v have_v take_v notice_n of_o ad_fw-la §_o 15._o i_o have_v reply_v as_o i_o think_v full_o to_o every_o part_n and_o particle_n of_o your_o argument_n neither_o be_v the_o history_n of_o s._n cyprian_n and_o s._n augustine_n opposition_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n a_o excursion_n or_o diversion_n but_o a_o clear_a demonstation_n of_o the_o contradictory_n of_o your_o conclusion_n viz._n that_o the_o roman_a church_n etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o her_o judgement_n not_o to_o be_v rest_v upon_o for_o a_o answer_n hereto_o i_o shall_v be_v very_o importunate_a with_o you_o and_o therefore_o if_o you_o desire_v to_o avoid_v trouble_n i_o pray_v come_v out_o of_o my_o debt_n as_o soon_o as_o may_v be_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o my_o argument_n be_v not_o contradictory_n to_o your_o conclusion_n because_o it_o show_v only_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o her_o adherent_n be_v not_o in_o s._n cyprian_n or_o s._n augustine_n time_n the_o catholic_n church_n but_o be_v at_o the_o time_n before_o luther_n i_o say_v to_o conclude_v the_o one_o be_v to_o conclude_v the_o other_o for_o certain_o if_o it_o be_v then_o at_o luther_n time_n so_o it_o be_v always_o so_o if_o it_o be_v not_o always_o it_o be_v not_o then_o for_o if_o it_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n or_o necessary_a to_o the_o church_n as_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v a_o society_n of_o christian_n join_v in_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n and_o bishop_n of_o rome_n then_o do_v it_o always_o agree_v to_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o in_o s._n cyprian_n and_o s._n augustine_n time_n as_o well_o as_o at_o luther_n rise_n if_o it_o be_v not_o always_o particular_o not_o in_o s._n cyprian_n time_n of_o the_o essence_n or_o
necessary_a to_o the_o church_n to_o be_v so_o than_o it_o be_v impossible_a the_o church_n shall_v acquire_v this_o essence_n or_o this_o property_n afterward_o and_o therefore_o impossible_a it_o shall_v have_v it_o at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_n necessarium_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la aliquando_fw-la inest_fw-la aliquando_fw-la non_fw-la inest_fw-la alicui_fw-la inest_fw-la alicui_fw-la non_fw-la inest_fw-la sed_fw-la quod_fw-la semper_fw-la &_o omni_fw-la arist_n post_n analyt_v again_o every_o sophister_n know_v that_o of_o particular_n nothing_o can_v be_v conclude_v and_o therefore_o he_o that_o will_v show_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o luther_n rise_v he_o must_v argue_v thus_o it_o be_v always_o so_o therefore_o than_o it_o be_v so_o now_o this_o antecedent_n be_v overthrow_v by_o any_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o so_o the_o first_o antecedent_n be_v prove_v false_a the_o first_o consequent_a can_v but_o be_v false_a for_o what_o reason_n can_v be_v imagine_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o be_v not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n at_o s._n cyprian_n time_n and_o be_v at_o luther_n rise_n if_o you_o grant_v as_o i_o think_v you_o can_v deny_v that_o a_o church_n divide_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a may_v be_v still_o in_o truth_n and_o in_o god_n account_n a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n we_o speak_v of_o than_o i_o hope_v mr._n lewgars_n argument_n from_o unity_n of_o communion_n be_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n and_o it_o will_v be_v no_o good_a plea_n to_o say_v some_o one_o church_n not_o consist_v of_o divers_a communion_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o luther_n rise_n no_o one_o church_n can_v be_v name_v to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o roman_a therefore_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n at_o luther_n rise_n for_o mr._n lewgar_n have_v not_o nor_o can_v prove_v the_o major_a of_o this_o syllogism_n certain_o true_a but_o to_o the_o contrary_n i_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o can_v be_v certain_o true_a by_o show_v divers_a instance_n wherein_o divers_a divide_a communion_n have_v make_v up_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o divide_n of_o the_o communion_n but_o the_o cause_n and_o ground_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v regard_v whether_o it_o be_v just_a and_o sufficient_a or_o unjust_a and_o insufficient_a neither_o be_v the_o bishop_n or_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o a_o infallible_a judge_n thereof_o for_o it_o be_v evident_a both_o he_o and_o it_o have_v err_v herein_o divers_a time_n which_o i_o have_v evince_v already_o by_o divers_a example_n which_o i_o will_v not_o repeat_v but_o add_v to_o they_o one_o confess_v by_o mr._n lewgar_n himself_o in_o his_o discourse_n upon_o the_o article_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n pag._n 84._o s._n athanasius_n be_v excommunicate_v though_o by_o the_o it_o the_o how_o by_o the_o whole_a church_n when_o himself_o be_v part_n of_o it_o and_o communicate_v still_o with_o divers_a other_o part_n of_o it_o whole_a church_n yet_o may_v remain_v a_o member_n of_o christ_n body_n not_o visible_a for_o that_o be_v impossible_a excommunicate_v impossible_a what_o not_o to_o they_o who_o know_v and_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v that_o a_o person_n cut_v off_o from_o visible_a communion_n though_o unjust_o shall_v be_v a_o visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o by_o invisible_a communion_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o invalidity_n of_o the_o sentence_n which_o be_v unjust_a be_v valid_a enough_o to_o visible_a excision_n but_o not_o far_o ii_o a_o discourse_n against_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o a_o answer_n to_o all_o those_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o be_v allege_v to_o prove_v it_o the_o condition_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n without_o the_o performance_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v receive_v into_o it_o be_v this_o that_o he_o believe_v firm_o and_o without_o doubt_v whatsoever_o that_o church_n require_v he_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v impossible_a that_o any_o man_n shall_v certain_o believe_v any_o thing_n unless_o that_o thing_n be_v either_o evident_a of_o itself_o as_o that_o twice_o two_o be_v four_o that_o every_o whole_a be_v great_a than_o a_o part_n of_o itself_o or_o unless_o he_o have_v some_o certain_a reason_n at_o least_o some_o suppose_a certain_a reason_n and_o infallible_a guide_n for_o his_o belief_n thereof_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v to_o be_v believe_v be_v not_o evident_a of_o themselves_o for_o then_o every_o one_o will_v grant_v they_o at_o first_o hear_v without_o any_o further_a proof_n he_o therefore_o that_o will_v believe_v they_o must_v have_v some_o certain_a and_o infallible_a ground_n whereupon_o to_o build_v his_o belief_n of_o they_o there_o be_v no_o other_o ground_n for_o a_o man_n belief_n of_o they_o especial_o in_o many_o point_n but_o only_o a_o assurance_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n now_o this_o point_n of_o that_o church_n infallibility_n be_v not_o evident_a of_o itself_o for_o than_o no_o man_n can_v choose_v but_o in_o his_o heart_n believe_v it_o without_o far_a proof_n second_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o bring_v any_o proof_n of_o it_o as_o vain_a as_o to_o light_v a_o candle_n to_o show_v man_n the_o sun_n three_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o bring_v any_o proof_n of_o it_o see_v nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_a than_o that_o which_o of_o itself_o be_v evident_a and_o nothing_o can_v be_v bring_v in_o proof_n of_o any_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o more_o evident_a than_o that_o matter_n to_o be_v prove_v but_o now_o experience_n teach_v that_o million_o there_o be_v which_o have_v hear_v talk_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o yet_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o the_o defender_n of_o it_o do_v not_o think_v it_o either_o vain_a or_o impossible_a to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v it_o and_o from_o hence_o it_o follow_v plain_o that_o this_o point_n be_v not_o evident_a of_o itself_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o other_o certain_a ground_n for_o any_o man_n belief_n of_o it_o or_o if_o there_o be_v i_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v produce_v as_o who_o be_o ready_a and_o most_o willing_a to_o submit_v my_o judgement_n to_o it_o full_o persuade_v that_o none_o can_v be_v produce_v that_o will_v endure_v a_o severe_a and_o impartial_a examination_n if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o roman_a church_n be_v to_o be_v believe_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v it_o be_v so_o 1._o i_o demand_v how_o shall_v i_o be_v assure_v of_o the_o text_n that_o be_v allege_v that_o they_o be_v indeed_o scripture_n that_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o answer_n to_o this_o must_v be_v either_o because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o or_o some_o other_o if_o any_o other_o be_v give_v than_o all_o be_v not_o final_o resolve_v into_o and_o build_v upon_o that_o church_n authority_n and_o this_o answer_n than_o i_o hope_v a_o protestant_n may_v have_v leave_n to_o make_v use_n of_o when_o he_o be_v put_v to_o that_o perilous_a question_n how_o know_v you_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o scripture_n if_o the_o answer_n be_v because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o my_o reply_n be_v ready_a that_o to_o believe_v that_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v so_o and_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n because_o the_o same_o church_n say_v so_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o believe_v the_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o church_n say_v so_o which_o be_v infallible_a 2._o i_o can_v never_o yet_o from_o the_o begin_n of_o genesis_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o apocalypse_n find_v it_o write_v so_o much_o as_o once_o in_o express_a term_n or_o equivalent_o that_o the_o church_n in_o subordination_n to_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n shall_v be_v always_o infallible_a 3._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o be_v draw_v from_o good_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n true_o interpret_v i_o demand_v what_o certain_a ground_n have_v i_o to_o warrant_v i_o that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a and_o this_o interpretation_n true_a and_o if_o answer_v be_v make_v that_o reason_n will_v tell_v i_o so_o i_o reply_v 1._o that_o this_o be_v to_o build_v all_o upon_o my_o own_o reason_n and_o private_a interpretation_n 2._o i_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o fear_v that_o reason_n assure_v no_o man_n that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v be_v deduce_v from_o scripture_n by_o good_a and_o firm_a consequence_n 4._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n do_v so_o interpret_v the_o scripture_n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o
know_v it_o but_o that_o i_o do_v as_o undoubted_o believe_v it_o as_o those_o thing_n which_o i_o do_v know_v for_o though_o as_o i_o conceive_v we_o may_v be_v proper_o say_v to_o believe_v that_o which_o we_o know_v yet_o we_o can_v say_v true_o that_o we_o know_v that_o which_o we_o only_o believe_v upon_o report_n and_o hearsay_n be_v it_o never_o so_o constant_a never_o so_o general_a for_o see_v the_o generality_n of_o man_n be_v make_v up_o of_o particular_n and_o every_o particular_a man_n may_v deceive_v and_o be_v deceive_v it_o be_v not_o impossible_a though_o exceed_o improbable_a that_o all_o man_n shall_v conspire_v to_o do_v so_o yet_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o popular_a phrase_n of_o speech_n will_v very_o well_o bear_v that_o we_o may_v say_v we_o know_v that_o which_o in_o truth_n we_o only_o believe_v provide_v the_o ground_n of_o our_o belief_n be_v moral_o certain_a neither_o do_v i_o take_v any_o exception_n to_o the_o nephew_n answer_n make_v to_o his_o uncle_n 2_o 3_o 4._o and_o 5._o interrogatory_n but_o grant_v willing_o as_o to_o the_o first_o that_o it_o be_v not_o much_o material_a whether_o i_o remember_v or_o not_o any_o particular_a author_n of_o such_o a_o general_a and_o constant_a report_n then_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o one_o or_o two_o witness_n though_o never_o so_o credible_a can_v add_v nothing_o to_o that_o belief_n which_o be_v already_o at_o the_o height_n nay_o perhaps_o that_o my_o own_o see_v these_o city_n will_v make_v no_o accession_n add_v no_o degree_n to_o the_o strength_n and_o firmness_n of_o my_o faith_n concern_v this_o matter_n only_o it_o will_v change_v the_o kind_n of_o my_o assent_n and_o make_v i_o know_v that_o which_o former_o i_o do_v but_o believe_v to_o the_o four_o that_o seem_a reason_n be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v regard_v against_o sense_n or_o experience_n and_o moral_a certainty_n but_o withal_o i_o shall_v have_v tell_v my_o uncle_n that_o i_o fear_v his_o supposition_n be_v hardly_o possible_a and_o that_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n will_v not_o admit_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v any_o great_a nay_o any_o probable_a reason_n invent_v to_o persuade_v i_o that_o there_o never_o be_v such_o a_o city_n as_o london_n and_o therefore_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v go_v about_o to_o persuade_v i_o that_o there_o never_o be_v such_o a_o city_n as_o london_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o man_n as_o call_v themselves_o or_o be_v call_v by_o other_o protestant_n in_o england_n in_o the_o day_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n perhaps_o such_o a_o man_n wit_n may_v delight_v i_o but_o his_o reason_n sure_o will_v never_o persuade_v i_o hitherto_o we_o shall_v have_v go_v hand_n in_o hand_n together_o but_o whereas_o in_o the_o next_o place_n he_o say_v in_o like_a manner_n than_o you_o do_v not_o doubt_v but_o a_o catholic_n live_v in_o a_o catholic_n country_n may_v undoubted_o know_v what_o be_v the_o public_a religion_n of_o his_o country_n in_o his_o father_n day_n and_o that_o so_o assure_o that_o it_o be_v a_o mere_a madness_n for_o he_o to_o doubt_v thereof_o i_o shall_v have_v crave_v leave_n to_o tell_v my_o uncle_n that_o he_o presume_v too_o far_o upon_o his_o nephew_n yield_v disposition_n for_o that_o as_o it_o be_v a_o far_o more_o easy_a thing_n to_o know_v and_o more_o authentical_o testify_v that_o there_o be_v some_o man_n call_v protestant_n by_o themselves_o and_o other_o than_o what_o opinion_n these_o protestant_n hold_v divers_a man_n hold_v divers_a thing_n which_o yet_o be_v all_o call_v by_o this_o name_n so_o be_v it_o far_o more_o easy_a for_o a_o roman_n catholic_n to_o know_v that_o in_o his_o father_n day_n there_o be_v some_o man_n for_o their_o outward_a communion_n with_o and_o subordination_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n call_v roman_n catholic_n than_o to_o know_v what_o be_v the_o religion_n of_o those_o man_n who_o go_v under_o this_o name_n for_o they_o may_v be_v as_o different_a one_o from_o another_o in_o their_o belief_n as_o some_o protestant_n be_v from_o other_o as_o for_o example_n have_v i_o live_v before_o the_o lateran_n council_n which_o condemn_v berengarius_fw-la possible_o i_o may_v have_v know_v that_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v part_n of_o the_o public_a doctrine_n of_o my_o country_n but_o whether_o the_o real_a absence_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o consecration_n and_o their_o transubstantiation_n into_o christ_n body_n be_v likewise_o catholic_n doctrine_n at_o that_o time_n that_o i_o can_v not_o have_v know_v see_v that_o all_o man_n be_v at_o liberty_n to_o hold_v it_o be_v so_o or_o it_o be_v not_o so_o moreover_o i_o shall_v have_v tell_v my_o uncle_n that_o live_v now_o i_o know_v it_o be_v catholic_n doctrine_n that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o bless_a enjoy_v the_o vision_n of_o god_n but_o if_o i_o have_v live_v in_o the_o reign_n of_o pope_n john_n the_o xxii_o i_o shall_v not_o have_v know_v that_o then_o it_o be_v so_o consider_v that_o many_o good_a catholic_n before_o that_o time_n have_v believe_v and_o then_o even_o the_o pope_n himself_o do_v believe_v the_o contrary_a and_o he_o be_v warrant_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o do_v so_o because_o the_o church_n have_v not_o then_o define_v it_o i_o shall_v have_v tell_v he_o further_o that_o either_o catholic_n of_o the_o present_a time_n do_v so_o differ_v in_o their_o belief_n that_o what_o some_o hold_v lawful_a and_o pious_a other_o condemn_v as_o unlawful_a and_o impious_a or_o else_o that_o all_o now_o consent_n and_o consequent_o make_v it_o catholic_n doctrine_n that_o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o make_v the_o usual_a picture_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o to_o set_v they_o in_o church_n to_o be_v adore_v but_o have_v i_o live_v in_o s._n augustine_n time_n i_o shall_v then_o have_v be_v teach_v another_o lesson_n to_o wit_n that_o this_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n be_v impious_a and_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n catholic_n i_o shall_v have_v tell_v he_o that_o now_o i_o be_v teach_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n be_v a_o apostolic_a tradition_n but_o have_v i_o live_v 600_o year_n since_o and_o find_v that_o in_o all_o antiquity_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o they_o i_o shall_v either_o have_v think_v the_o primitive_a church_n no_o faithful_a steward_n in_o defraud_v man_n soul_n of_o this_o treasure_n intend_v by_o god_n to_o they_o and_o so_o necessary_a for_o they_o or_o rather_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n now_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o then_o catholic_n i_o shall_v have_v tell_v he_o that_o the_o general_a practice_n of_o roman_a catholic_n now_o teach_v i_o that_o it_o be_v a_o pious_a thing_n to_o offer_v incense_n and_o taper_n to_o the_o saint_n and_o to_o their_o picture_n but_o have_v i_o live_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o shall_v with_o the_o church_n have_v condemn_v it_o in_o the_o collyridians_n as_o heretical_a i_o shall_v have_v represent_v to_o he_o erasmus_n his_o complaint_n against_o the_o protestant_n who_o depart_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n occasion_v the_o determine_n and_o exact_v the_o belief_n of_o many_o point_n as_o necessary_a wherein_o before_o luther_n man_n enjoy_v the_o liberty_n of_o their_o judgement_n and_o tongue_n and_o pen_n antea_fw-la say_v he_o licebat_fw-la varias_fw-la agitare_fw-la quaestiones_fw-la de_fw-la potestate_fw-la pontificis_fw-la de_fw-la condonationibus_fw-la de_fw-la restituendo_fw-la de_fw-la purgatorio_fw-la nunc_fw-la tutum_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la hiscere_fw-la ne_fw-fr de_fw-fr his_o quidèm_n quae_fw-la pie_n verèque_fw-la dicuntur_fw-la et_fw-la credere_fw-la cogimur_fw-la quod_fw-la homo_fw-la gignit_fw-la ex_fw-la se_fw-la opera_fw-la meritoria_fw-la quod_fw-la benefact_n be_v meretur_fw-la vitam_fw-la aeternam_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la condigno_fw-la quòd_fw-la b._n virgo_fw-la potest_fw-la imperare_fw-la filio_fw-la cum_fw-la patre_fw-la regnanti_fw-la ut_fw-la exaudiat_fw-la huius_fw-la aut_fw-la illius_fw-la preces_fw-la aliaque_fw-la permulta_fw-la ad_fw-la quae_fw-la piae_fw-la mentes_fw-la inhorrescunt_fw-la and_o from_o hence_o i_o shall_v have_v collect_v as_o i_o think_v very_o probable_o that_o it_o be_v not_o then_o such_o a_o know_a and_o certain_a thing_n what_o be_v the_o catholic_n faith_n in_o many_o point_n which_o now_o be_v determine_v but_o that_o divers_a man_n who_o hold_v external_a communion_n with_o that_o church_n which_o now_o hold_v these_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n conceive_v themselves_o no_o way_n bind_v to_o do_v so_o but_o at_o liberty_n to_o hold_v as_o they_o see_v reason_n i_o shall_v have_v show_v he_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o another_o learned_a catholic_n that_o through_o the_o negligence_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o former_a age_n and_o the_o indiscreet_a devotion_n of_o the_o people_n many_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o
what_o wisdom_n be_v it_o to_o forsake_v a_o church_n acknowledge_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n endue_v with_o succession_n of_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n usque_fw-la ad_fw-la election_n or_o choice_n i_o answer_v yet_o may_v it_o be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v a_o church_n not_o acknowledge_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o accuse_v and_o convict_v of_o many_o damnable_a error_n certain_o damnable_a to_o they_o who_o be_v convict_v of_o they_o have_v they_o still_o persist_v in_o they_o after_o their_o conviction_n though_o perhaps_o pardonable_a which_o be_v all_o that_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o such_o as_o ignorant_o continue_v in_o they_o a_o church_n vain_o arrogate_a without_o possibility_n of_o proof_n a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o bishop_n hold_v always_o the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o with_o a_o ridiculous_a impudence_n pretend_v perpetual_a possession_n of_o all_o the_o world_n whereas_o the_o world_n know_v that_o a_o little_a before_o luther_n arise_v your_o church_n be_v confine_v to_o a_o part_n of_o a_o part_n of_o it_o last_o a_o church_n vain_o glory_v in_o the_o dependence_n of_o other_o church_n upon_o she_o which_o yet_o she_o support_v no_o more_o than_o those_o crouch_a antic_n which_o seem_v in_o great_a building_n to_o labour_n under_o the_o weight_n they_o bear_v do_v indeed_o support_v the_o fabric_n for_o a_o corrupt_a and_o false_a church_n may_v give_v authority_n to_o preach_v the_o truth_n and_o consequent_o against_o her_o own_o falsehood_n and_o corruption_n beside_o a_o false_a church_n may_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n true_a as_o now_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v preserve_v by_o the_o jew_n either_o not_o be_v arrive_v to_o that_o height_n of_o impiety_n as_o to_o attempt_v the_o corruption_n of_o it_o or_o not_o able_a to_o effect_v it_o or_o not_o perceive_v or_o not_o regard_v the_o opposition_n of_o it_o to_o her_o corruption_n and_o so_o we_o may_v receive_v from_o you_o lawful_a ordination_n and_o true_a scripture_n though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n and_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o you_o though_o not_o from_o you_o alone_o i_o hope_v you_o can_v hinder_v we_o neither_o need_v we_o ask_v your_o leave_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v they_o and_o this_o though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n and_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o you_o though_o not_o from_o you_o alone_o i_o hope_v you_o can_v hinder_v we_o neither_o need_v we_o ask_v your_o leave_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v they_o and_o this_o though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n be_v enough_o to_o make_v we_o a_o true_a one_o as_o for_o a_o succession_n of_o man_n that_o hold_v with_o we_o in_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n we_o need_v not_o and_o you_o have_v as_o little_a as_o we_o so_o that_o if_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o your_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v a_o true_a church_n it_o be_v not_o for_o any_o end_n for_o any_o dependence_n that_o we_o have_v upon_o you_o but_o because_o we_o conceive_v that_o in_o a_o charitable_a construction_n you_o may_v pass_v for_o a_o true_a church_n such_o a_o church_n and_o no_o better_a as_o you_o do_v sometime_o acknowledge_v protestant_n to_o be_v that_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n wherein_o some_o ignorant_a soul_n may_v be_v save_v so_o that_o in_o this_o balance_a of_o religion_n against_o religion_n and_o church_n against_o church_n it_o seem_v you_o have_v nothing_o of_o weight_n and_o moment_n to_o put_v into_o your_o scale_n nothing_o but_o smoke_n and_o wind_n vain_a shadow_n and_o fantastical_a pretence_n yet_o if_o protestant_n on_o the_o other_o side_n have_v nothing_o to_o put_v in_o their_o seal_n but_o those_o negative_a commendation_n which_o you_o be_v please_v to_o afford_v they_o nothing_o but_o no_o unity_n nor_o mean_n to_o procure_v it_o no_o far_o extent_n when_o luther_n arise_v than_o luther_n body_n no_o universality_n of_o time_n or_o place_n no_o visibility_n or_o be_v except_o only_o in_o your_o church_n no_o succession_n of_o person_n or_o doctrine_n no_o leader_n but_o luther_n in_o a_o quarrel_n begin_v upon_o no_o ground_n but_o passion_n no_o church_n no_o ordination_n no_o scripture_n but_o such_o as_o they_o receive_v from_o you_o if_o all_o this_o be_v true_a and_o this_o be_v all_o that_o can_v be_v plead_v for_o protestant_n possible_o with_o a_o allowance_n of_o three_o grain_n of_o partiality_n your_o scale_n may_v seem_v to_o turn_v but_o then_o if_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o part_n of_o these_o objection_n be_v false_o make_v against_o they_o the_o rest_n vain_o that_o whatsoever_o of_o truth_n be_v in_o these_o imputation_n be_v impertinent_a to_o this_o trial_n and_o whatsoever_o be_v pertinent_a be_v untrue_a and_o beside_o that_o plenty_n of_o good_a matter_n may_v be_v allege_v for_o protestant_n which_o be_v here_o dissemble_a then_o i_o hope_v our_o cause_n may_v be_v good_a notwithstanding_o these_o pretence_n 55._o i_o say_v then_o that_o want_v of_o universality_n of_o time_n and_o place_n the_o invisibility_n or_o not_o existence_n of_o the_o professor_n of_o protestant_a doctrine_n before_o luther_n luther_n being_n alone_o when_o he_o first_o oppose_v your_o church_n our_o have_v our_o church_n ordination_n scripture_n personal_a and_o yet_o not_o doctrinal_a succession_n from_o you_o be_v vain_a and_o impertinent_a allegation_n against_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n and_o church_n that_o the_o entire_a truth_n of_o christ_n without_o any_o mixture_n of_o error_n shall_v be_v profess_v or_o believe_v in_o all_o place_n at_o any_o time_n or_o in_o any_o place_n at_o all_o time_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n evident_a in_o reason_n neither_o have_v we_o any_o revelation_n for_o it_o and_o therefore_o in_o rely_v so_o confident_o on_o it_o you_o build_v your_o house_n upon_o the_o sand._n and_o what_o obligation_n we_o have_v either_o to_o be_v so_o peevish_a as_o to_o take_v nothing_o of_o you_o or_o so_o foolish_a as_o to_o take_v all_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o this_o be_v to_o be_v chooser_n and_o therefore_o heretic_n i_o tell_v you_o that_o though_o all_o heretic_n be_v chooser_n yet_o all_o chooser_n be_v not_o heretic_n otherwise_o they_o also_o which_o choose_v your_o religion_n must_v be_v heretic_n as_o for_o our_o want_a unity_n and_o mean_n of_o prove_v it_o luther_n oppose_a your_o church_n upon_o mere_a passion_n our_o follow_v private_a man_n rather_o than_o the_o catholic_n church_n the_o first_o and_o last_o be_v mere_a untruth_n for_o we_o want_v not_o unity_n nor_o mean_n to_o procure_v it_o in_o thing_n necessary_a plain_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o such_o as_o need_v no_o interpreter_n be_v our_o mean_n to_o obtain_v it_o neither_o do_v we_o follow_v any_o private_a man_n but_o only_o the_o scripture_n the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o our_o rule_n and_o reason_n which_o be_v also_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n give_v to_o direct_v we_o in_o all_o our_o action_n in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o then_o for_o luther_n oppose_a your_o church_n upon_o mere_a passion_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n i_o will_v not_o deny_v because_o i_o know_v not_o his_o heart_n and_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n you_o shall_v not_o have_v affirm_v it_o sure_o i_o be_o whether_o he_o oppose_v your_o church_n upon_o reason_n or_o no_o he_o have_v reason_n enough_o to_o oppose_v it_o and_o therefore_o if_o he_o do_v it_o upon_o passion_n we_o will_v follow_v he_o only_o in_o his_o action_n and_o not_o in_o his_o passion_n in_o his_o opposition_n not_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o it_o and_o then_o i_o presume_v you_o will_v have_v no_o reason_n to_o condemn_v we_o unless_o you_o will_v say_v that_o a_o good_a action_n can_v be_v do_v with_o reason_n because_o some_o body_n before_o we_o have_v do_v it_o upon_o passion_n you_o see_v then_o how_o imprudent_a you_o have_v be_v in_o the_o choice_n of_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v protestant_n unwise_a in_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o religion_n 56._o it_o remain_v now_o that_o i_o shall_v show_v that_o many_o reason_n of_o moment_n may_v be_v allege_v for_o the_o justification_n of_o protestant_n which_o be_v dissemble_v by_o you_o and_o not_o put_v into_o the_o balance_n know_v then_o sir_n that_o when_o i_o say_v the_o religion_n of_o protestant_n be_v in_o prudence_n to_o be_v prefer_v before_o you_o as_o on_o the_o one_o side_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v by_o your_o religion_n the_o doctrine_n of_o bellarmine_n or_o baronius_n or_o any_o other_o private_a man_n among_o you_o nor_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o sorbon_n or_o of_o the_o jesuit_n or_o of_o the_o dominicans_n or_o of_o any_o other_o particular_a company_n among_o you_o but_o that_o wherein_o you_o all_o agree_v or_o profess_v to_o agree_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o