promise But that all things may be without confusion and perturbation which cannot so well be avoyded in disputations and conferences I shall orderly and methodically set down what passed between us in our disputation and I will neither adde nor detract from the substance in any thing yea as neere as I can I will keepe the very expressions so that the Gentlemen that were there present when they see it may behold my faire dealing and faithfulnesse in relating every thing Which that I might the better doe I leaned not to my owne memory but made use of their notes that tooke our discourse and have reduced the whole dispute into that order that will make it easie to be understood and as I hope I shall dilucidatly prove the Church of England to be a true Church so also that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament containe all things in them sufficient and necessary for our salvation and that they are the onely and infallible rule to which all Christians are tyed to the end of the world and from which they are not to swerve or decline either to the right hand or to the left but are bound to make it and it onely the absolute rule for the regulating of their faith and the ordering of their manners The which two last propositions were accidentally started partly in examining the proofes and by your evasions and partly by reason of the Gentlemen that were standers by whom you Master Mountague and my selfe are beholding to for their faire carriage towards us both whom I could not but with honour mention not onely for their civility but indeed Christian behaviour But before I set downe my arguments for the proofe of the first question I shall crave leave to bring to your memory wherein I declared my selfe before them all that I agreed with you which was in this point that the ordinary way in Gods providence for the conversion and saving of men was the Church where the Gospell is preached which is the power of God to salvation Rom. 1. ver 14. according to that of Saint Paul the first Epistle to Timothy chap. 3. vers 14 15. These things I write unto thee hoping to come unto thee shortly but if I tarry longer that thou mayst know how thou oughtest to behave thy selfe in the house of God which is the Church of the living God the pillar and ground of truth In this verse the Apostle in an elegant metaphor compares Gods dealing in making knowne his will and pleasure unto his people and children to the customes of Kings and Princes who in publishing their minds and pleasures to their servants and subjects cause their Proclamations to be set up upon pillars in their houses and before their Palaces and in the Cities and Townes through their Dominions after they have proclaimed them by their Officers appointed to that purpose whether their people may have recourse to know their Royall pleasure And to this custome I say of the Potentates and Monarchs of the earth doth Paul allude in this his expression comparing the Church unto a pillar because in the Church the Lord Jesus the King of Saints and King of Kings doth declare his will and pleasure to his people what he would have them to doe and what he would have them leave undone what they should believe and what they should practice in the performance of all which they may assure themselves of his protection here and of full deliverance from all their enemies and of eternall felicity hereafter So that all those that desire to be saved and to know the true way to Heaven they ought to addresse themselves to the true Church which is the house of God the pillar and ground of truth Now that the Church of England is a true Church and the ground and pillar of truth is that Master Montague you deny and which is my taske to prove Which if I can evince you are bound by your promise to embrace it and to relinquish the Church of Rome But before I begin I thought good to mind you of this that it was your desire I should reduce all this discourse into order and send it to you and you promised me faithfully to answer it You may remember also that you left it arbitrary what Translation I should use either ours or the Rhemists for it was all one to me as I told you and you signified to me in the presence of them all that it was indifferent to you I have therefore made use of our owne because the Translation is best knowne to the people and the other hard to come by and also because many of the learnedâ—â— Papists that have read our last Translation have confest that it commeth farre nigher the originall than any of the former But if you shall hereafter except against it there shall be no difference about that in the handling of the controversie between us for I will then make use of yours But now I come to my argument which is this That Church that teacheth the way the truth and the life against which the gates of hell can never prevaile that is a true Church the house of God the Church of the living God the ground and pillar of truth in which salvation may be found But the Church of England is a Church that teacheth the way the truth and the life against which the gates of hell can never prevaile Ergo the Church of England is a true Church the ground and pillar of truth in which salvation may be found For answer to which you first made your apology that if I meant to proceed in a Syllogisticall way that you were no Schollâ—r To which I replying told you that I knew very well that you were a Scholler and that this way of disputing was the best means of finding out of truth and that I would leave my argument with you and not onely for you but for whomsoever you pleased to assist and help you To which you answered that it was fairly said and that it was a faire and syllogisticall way Notwithstanding you would reject your owne capacity to answer in such a way reiterating your former expression saying that you were no Scholler no Logitian no Philosopher But said you to justifie my selfe to these Gentlemen here I am content to answer to your syllogisme Then I told you that you must deny one of the propositions the major or the minor To which you answered I deny the minor it stands you upon to prove it Here I cite the words verbatim as I find them written by the Scribes But Master Montague before I come to the proofe of my minor give me leave to speake my opinion of you for I desire to traduce no man nor minorise the worth of any man I conceive that you are every way as learned and accomplished for all knowledge in your religion as any of that fraternity as well for your naturall abilities and endowments of wit and understanding
have given an answer to your cavill and evasions which was this that Saint Paul in this place spake onely of the Scriptures of the old Testament because said you Paul writes only of those Scriptures which Timothy had learned from his youth and they were onely the Scriptures of the old Testament that Timothy was instructed in This Mr. Montague was your evasion which if it be true will notwithstanding adde force and strength unto my argument as I then proved and shall by and by more clearely and fully evince But Mr. Montague that Saint Paul in this place joynes the Scriptures of the new Testament with those of the old is most manifest by the addition following saying Which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ which words perspicuously evince that to the knowledge of the old Testament he joyneth likewise the doctrine of the Gospell and the Scriptures of the new Testament But you then replied that the doctrine of the new Testament was not at that time written and committed to Pen but onely delivered viva voce and received by Tradition But all this you spake without either ground or any good reason and against all light of right understanding For it is well knowne that this very Epistle to Timothy was either the last or one of the last Saint Paul ever writ it being a little before his death as appeares by the six and seventh verses of the fourth chapter where he saith I am now ready to be offered and the time of my departure is at hand I have fought a good fight I have finished my course I have kept the faith hence forth there is laid up for me a Crowne of righteousnesse which the Lord the righteous Judge shall give me at that day and not to me onely but to all them that love his appearing So that it is evident that most of all Pauls Epistles were written before this time neither will you deny Master Montague but his first Epistle to Timothy was written before this and in that he had given to Timothy and in him to all the Ministers of the Gospell a perpetuall and sufficient rule how to order and governe the Church unto the worlds end so that all men may perceive that the Apostle joynes the Scriptures of the new Testament with them of the old when he addes through faith which is in Jesus Christ And for further evidence of this consider what Saint Peter writes in his second Epistle chap. 3. ver 15 16. in these words Even as our beloved brother Paul according unto the wisdome given unto him hath written unto you as also in all his Epistles speaking in them of these things c. This Mr. Montague as all men of ordinary wit and all Historians acknowledge was writ some good time and space before this last Epistle and a good time before his death so that the Epistle that Paul writ to the Hebrews his Countreymen to whom Peter also at that time in their dispersion writeth and most of his other Epistles if not all were written when Peter writ this Epistle which by all probability was long before Saint Paul wrote his last Epistle to Timothy so that if you please to take an accurate account of the times it will be evident that all the Apostolicall writings and the whole Scriptures of the New Testament or almost all were then written when Paul writ his last Epistle to Timothy so that not onely the most of Pauls Epistles as Peter witnesseth but Peters first and second Epistle also were then written So that your cavill Mr. Montague and evasion was but a demonstration of the weaknesse of your cause and in nothing impeaches or enervates the dint and force of the argument but rather addes strength and vigour unto it for if I should grant you which I cannot with any reason that the holy Scriptures of the new Testament were not then written when Paul writ his last Epistle to Timothy it would be nothing to the purpose or a matter of any moment seeing that afterward all the doctrine of the new Testament was written and commended by the Pens of the Apostles and Evangelists to future ages and to this end that they should order their faith and regulate all their doctrines and manners according to them with an especiall command from St. Paul 1 Cor. 4. vers 6. That they should not be wise above that which was written Saint John also denouncing a fearefull woe and curse to all those that shall adde unto the holy Scriptures or detract from them Revel 22. ver 18 19. which all they doe Mr. Montague that accuse the holy Scriptures of imperfection which is a great taking away from their perfection and from the honour that belongeth unto them and when they not onely joyne their owne Traditions to the holy Scriptures but preferre them before them which is not onely to be wise above that which is written but prodigiously to adde unto the holy Scriptures which makes you all liable to that curse denounced by Saint John So that if you Master Montague repent not of this so great a sinne The Lord will take away your part out of the booke of life and out of the holy City and from the things that are written in the Scriptures But now Master Montague I will make it evident that the argument will be of more force and more convince your erroneous opinion of the insufficiency of the holy Scriptures and prove the authority and al-sufficiency of them if the Apostle Paul should there speake onely of the Scriptures of the old Testament as you and your brethren would have him and not of the new also And thus I prove it If the Scriptures of the old Testament are able to make men wise unto salvation much more then are all the holy Scriptures both of the old and new joyned together when those of the new Testament fully and clearely interpret the old and with open face the vaile being taken away set forth Christ unto us I say much more then are they being all joyned with the old Testament able to make men wise to salvation But the antecedent is true ergo the consequent The truth is Master Montague they that say the holy Scriptures containe not all things in them necessary to salvation and that they are not without the Traditions of men able to make us wise to salvation blaspheme and give the lie unto the Spirit of God which affirmeth the contrary saying that they are able to make a man wise to salvation And whosoever Mr. Montague shall deny this golden sentence of Paul that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable c. vers 26. to belong unto the the Scriptures of the new Testament would be thought worthy not onely to be spewed out of the Schooles of all learned Divines but indeed out of the number of all Christians and adjudged unfit for all godly mens society But that
of the primitive Christians it is said of that noble Eunuch Acts 8. vers 27.28 to his eternall prayse that came to Jerusalem to worship that as hee returned sitting in his Chariot hee read Esaias the Prophet Without doubt if hee read him before he was a Christian he read him much more and more frequently after hee was a Christian and if hee read the Prophets before hee understood them it is very like that he was a more diligent Reader of them when he understood them and yet notwithstanding Mr. Montague this was no Church-man that I may speake in your dialect but a secular Lord the Treasurer of the Queene of Ethiopia It was his greatest honour that he was a reader of the holy Scripture and in the Church of Rome it is an infamy and hainous crime that is expiated with death for any secular men to reade the Prophecies and Scriptures or to have them in their houses What thinke you I pray Mr. Montague of this dealing of the Church of Rome towards her sonnes and children Is shee not a very cruell step-mother that thus murthereth her poore childrens soules and bodies that snatcheth the Paps and Breasts by which they should be nourished out of their mouthes and keepes away the Milke of the word from them It is said of the Bereans Act. 17. vers 11. to their everlasting honour that they were more noble than they which were at Thessalonica and wherefore were they more honorable because saith S. Luke they received the Word with all readiness searching the Scriptures dayly whether those things were so And this was a thing very laudable in them and left for our imitation and to be a Lesson for all men that they should examine whatsoever is taught them and by whomsoever by the holy Scripture which to do in the Church of Rome would be punished with all severity as you know very well Mr. Montague It was Timothies praise 2 Tim. 3. v. 15. That he knew the Scriptures from his child-hood and that in those tender yeares hee read the Word of God Here we have the example of a youth to his ever honour who was acquainted with the holy Scriptures and the very reading of them would be punished in old men in Italy or under the Popes Dominions What a desperate height of sacrilegious wickednesse is the Church of Rome now arrived to that dares against the command of God and against all justice and honesty take the Word of God and the holy Scriptures out of the hands of the people for whose cause principally they were writ For the Apostles writ most of their Epistles not to the Presbyters and Bishops but to the Churches in generall To the Churches of God to the sanctified in Jesus Christ and to all those that call upon the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ So Paul to the Corinthians the 1. Chap. 1. vers 2. 2 Cor. 2. vers 1. Galat. 1. vers 2. Ephes 1. vers 1 c. And that hee might cleerly demonstrate that hee writes as well to the people as to the Ministers and Pastors he discriminateth and distinguisheth them Phil. 1. v. 1. Paul and Timothy servants of Jesus Christ to all the Saints in Jesus Christ which are at Philippi with the Bishops and Deanes And S. James addresseth his Epistle to the twelve Tribes that are scattered abroade Iames 1. vers 1. And S. Peter writes his first Epistle to the strangers scattered through Pontus Galatia Cappadâ—cia Asia and Bithynia vers 1. And his second Epistle is yet more generall To them that have obtained like pretious faith with us through the Righteousnesse of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ vers 1. What unjustice therefore is it Mr. Montague in the Church of Rome to take these Epistles out of the hands of Christians and Believers to whom they are sent and dedicated S. Iohn in his first Epistle and second Chap. saith that hee writes to Fathers to young men and to little children to this end to oblige and tie all people of what age quality or degree soever they be to reade his Epistle Hee writes his second to an honorable Lady who without doubt made no scruple to reade it in her Family But in the Church of Rome this is not permitted to the people to reade the holy Scriptures or to heare them read in the vulgar Tongue without eminent danger and severe punishment if it be known Although the Apostle in expresse formall words hath commanded that his Epistles should be read by all the people as we may see in his Letters to the Colossians Cha. 4. v. 16. and to the Thessalonians When yee have read this Epistle saith he cause that it be read also in Laodicea c. And in the first of Thess 5. vers 27. I charge you by the Lord saith the Apostle that this Epistle be read to all the holy Brethren But in the Church of Rome such a miserable and degenerating age we live in the holy Scriptures are snatcht and taken out of the hands of the people and impious Legends and scurrilous Pamphlets are put into their hands But to conclude this point S. John in 1 Revelation vers 3. Blessed are they saith S. John that reade and they that heare the words of this Prophesy and keepe those things which are written therein If the Spirit of God Mr. Mountague calls and pronounces those blessed that read the Booke of the Revelation that is the difficultest of all the Scriptures how much more blessed ought wee to thinke those that read the holy Gospells and all the Epistles of the holy Apostles and the other Scriptures which containe many things in them yea all things necessary to salvation very familiar and easy to be understood Therefore needs must that people bee unhappy yea cursed that are deprived not onely of so great felicity but of all true comfort By all this that I have now said to prove that the sacred Scriptures were not accidentally written but by command and that to be a rule of direction to all and that they are not darke and obscure and that the people ought to reade them and study them all which our great Prophet the Lord Jesus hath both taught and confirmed and his blessed Apostles after him whom he hath commanded us to hear saying He that heareth you heareth mee and he that despiseth you despiseth me and him that sent mee Luke 10. vers 16. It is very evident that the Church of Rome doth onely in word acknowledge Christ to bee the King Priest and Prophet of his Church but in workes overthrow all his offices and annihilate as much as in them lies the whole worke of our Redemption and the whole worship of God by bringing in a worship and service of their own which neither the King Priest and Prophet of his Church nor any of his blessed Apostles hath ever taught us But it wil yet more cleerly be elucidated by that that insueth when I shal manifestly prove that
17 Chapter of his holy Gospell vers 3. has these words This is life eternall to know thee to be the onely true God and whom thou hast sent Jesus Christ Out of the which place I thus reason That which teaches us the knowledge of the onely true God and whom hee hath sent Iesus Christ which is life eternall that containes all things in it necessary to salvation but the holy Scriptures teach us the knowledge of the onely true God and whom hee hath sent Jesus Christ which is life eternall Ergo The holy Scriptures containe in them all things necessary to salvation The Major is the Text the Minor you dare not deny but if you or any shall it hath beene sufficiently confirmed by the former discourse And these Arguments may satisfy any rationall creature for the proofe of the sufficiency of the holy Scriptures without the additions of any humane Traditions for the making of them compleate but by way of a corollary I shall yet adde a few proofes more Heb. chap. 1. vers 1.2 God saith the Authour of that Epistle Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the Fathers by the Prophets hath in these last dayes spoken unto us by his Sonne c. From the which words I thus argue If the Word of God necessary to the salvation of the Church was first delivered by the Prophets and afterwards by Christ and his Apostles and the Word of God delivered by the Prophets is onely at this day to be sought in the writings of the Prophets then certainly the Word of God delivered unto us by Christ and his Apostles is at this day onely to be sought in the writings of the Apostles unlesse there can be some reason given of the dissimilitude But the antecedent is true Ergo The consequent Wherefore the Word of God delivered unto us by Christ and his Apostles is at this day to be sought or found onely in the writings of the Apostles And therefore the whole Word of God necessary to the salvation of the Church is contained and at this day onely to be found in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles and not in the vaine Traditions of men The hypothesis or hypotheticall connexion of this argument Mr. Montague is manifest by the very light of nature quae dictat de iisdem idem esse statuendum Now if yee looke into the substance of the word of God you will finde it to be the same both in the old and new Testament according to that of Paul Acts 26. vers 22. Who professeth there that he said none other things than those which the Prophets and Moses did say should come And in Chap. 24. vers 14. he confest before Felix the Governour that after the way they called Heresie hee worshipped the God of his Fathers believing all things that were written in the Law and the Prophets So that for the substance of the word of God it is the same both in the old and new Testament only the difference is this that the exhibition or manifestation of the Word was far more glorious and perspicuous in the new Testament than in the old for there the truth was set forth under diverse shadowes and representations but in the new it was cleerly without any Types and Figures declared unto the World So that S. Paul in his 2 Epistle to the Cor. chap. 3. comparing them together in their glory affirmes in expresse words that the administration of the Gospell was far more glorious than that of the old Testament calling the Ministration of the Law Death and the exhibition of the Gospell the Ministration of the Spirit and the Ministration of Righteousnesse and sayes that it did exceede in glory and in the 18 verse We saith he all with open face behold as in a glasse the glory of the Lord Whereas under the Law they beheld all things through Figures and had alwayes a veil before their Eyes And S. Peter in this point agrees with Paul for he in his 2 Epistle chap. 1. vers 19. compares the old Testament to a light or Candle shining in a darke place and the Gospell unto the Day-star And there is a greater difference between the light clarity and brightnesse of the new Testament and that of the old than betweene a little sucking Candle and a great Cathedrall one or betweene a small rush Candle or a little Lampe and a mighty Torch for although a man by the help of a little slender light may be conducted through a darke place and may by it be guided to keepe the right way yet all men know that a Torch or a great light will do that office farre more excellently so although the law was a light sufficient for the guiding of the people and keeping them out of the by-waies of sinne and errour yet the Gospell doth that office farre more illustriously and there is as great a difference betweene them in Saint Peters judgement as is betweene an ordinary light and the Day-starre for they are his own words All which things Master Montague makes greatly for the strengthning of my argument and the confirming of the truth in hand and to prove that if the Word of God necessary to the salvation of the Church under the old Testament was all to be found in the writings of the Prophets much more is the Word of God sufficient to salvation to be found in the writings of the Apostles and Evangelists which will yet more evidently appeare if wee consider and weigh the comparison betweene the old Testament and the new and the Word of God exhibited in them both For if God spake by the Prophets in the old Testament he spake also by the Apostles in the new If the Prophets preached the Word of God so did the Apostles If the Prophets did commit the Word of God to writing and penned it so did the Apostles And if the Prophets did comprehend and comprise the whole doctrine of the old Testament in their writings as they themselves affirme and as I have evidently in this discourse and sufficiently proved the Apostles and Evangelists have also comprised the whole doctrine of the Gospell in their writings as they also testifie and as I have abundantly shewed And therefore with very good reason I may urge this place now in hand and thus argue If the Word of God which was delivered in divers manners and sundry waies in time past be notwithstanding all of it to be found in the writings of the Prophets then the Word of God which under the Gospell was not delivered in divers manners and sundry waies but after one way is to be found in the writings of the Apostles For otherwise who sees not but the force of the Apostles comparison would fall to the ground And if the opinion and doctrine of the Church of Rome be true the Apostle should say or conclude thus As God spake in times past in divers manners and sundry waies unto the